[09.14.2007] Indiana State (1-0) at #25 Butler (1-0)

Bluethunder

Hugh McAwesome
Supporter
As good as it was to start the year of with a victory against the Oaks, Wednesday will be the real test. We have beaten Butler three years in a row and have a good chance of making it four. How good is Butler supposed to be this year? I know it doesn't mean a whole lot considering they were picked fifth last year in the Horizon and blew past that, but how have they looked so far? I know they lost Crone but have Graves back. Anyone from Indy with some info? Wish I could go but it is a weeknight. Was there last time when Tyson stuck it from 25 feet, what a great ending. Hope we can win by a larger margin this year.
 

Blue Streaker

The Sycamore Level
I never thought I would see someone project a game plan for Graves to shoot. How about playing very good defense and contesting every shot.
 

BankShot

The Kleuh Level
I'm not worried about our "D"...we'll hold our own. I'm looking for continued fluidity and GROWTH in the Big Mac "O."

Butler will be surprised at the changes in ISU "ballroom" dancing style...the Waltz is history.

:sycamores:
 

gostate03

The Varsity Level
Sycamores

I am very excited about wednesday, all that I hear up in Indy is how good Butler is and what they are going to do this year. On the butler web site they are all saying how this is going to be a blowout, we are down this year, and how Graves is going to get his first win vs ISU.
I hope we can bring up a good crowd to Hinkle and continue to get better as a team. It is going to be tough (butlers home opener) but I look forward to a very competitive game that is going to be fun to watch!!

GO STATE!!!
 
Shooting is not a Graves strong point when he has to shoot it & other shooters are taken out of the equation. I don't mean let him stand out & sight it for 10 seconds but don't let him drive & dish to the real shooters.
 

Bluethunder

Hugh McAwesome
Supporter
I don't get why Butler would think this would be a blowout. Not saying that they are wrong to think Butler will win, but I don't see it as a blowout. We won last year, and I think we have a stronger team, and I think Butler is not as strong as last year. This equation does not translate to a blowout.
 

BankShot

The Kleuh Level
You know how some 'Dawgs are...more bark than bite.:krazy:

Butler has always thought that they're a notch above ISU because of their 'Nap "private school" status. That's why I love it when we kick their :censored: -sses!
 

BankShot

The Kleuh Level
Now that's what I call a substantive argument! I was hoping that we'd keep those free Rally's post-game burgers & fries under the table...:krazy:

Found this @ Wikepedia, which is WHY I love to kick Butler:

The 2006-2007 men's Butler basketball team won the NIT Season Tip-Off, which in part helped them to be named one of the top 12 underdog sports stories of 2006 by ESPN. [4]For the third time in six years, the Bulldogs won their first ten games. Butler finished the regular season ranked No. 19 in both the latest ESPN/USA Today Coaches and AP Top 25 Polls. [5] [6] The Butler program has traditionally been one of the best of the so-called "mid-major" basketball programs over the last decade, having won at least 20 games and reached postseason play eight of the last ten seasons, including five NCAA Tournaments.[7] The now-unique style of team play that many have said harkens back to the Hoosier glory days, as well as being called the way the game should be played, has been dubbed "The Butler Way" by the Bulldog program. [8][9] During the 06-07 season, Butler junior guard AJ Graves was named a Wooden Award National Player of the Year finalist in men's college basketball, while Head Coach Todd Lickliter was also awarded the 2006-07 mid-season Jim Phelan National Coach of the Year[10] and the National Association of Basketball Coaches National Coach of the Year honors.

In the 2007 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament Butler earned a 5th seed, the highest seed in the school's history. It's previous highest seed was 10th in 2001. Butler was ranked in the AP Top 25 throughout the 2006-2007 season, and as high as No. 9, another school record. In the first round of the Midwest Regional, Butler defeated 12th seeded Old Dominion University 57-46. In round two of the Midwest Regional, Butler defeated the 4th seeded Maryland by a score of 62 to 59, earning a trip to the Sweet Sixteen in St. Louis, MO to play #1 seed University of Florida. This marked the second time in five years and the third time in the school's history that Butler has reached the Sweet Sixteen.

Butler reached the Sweet Sixteen as a No. 12 seed in the 2003 NCAA Tournament by defeating No. 5 Mississippi State and No. 4 Louisville, becoming that year's Cinderella. Butler also defeated Wake Forest, 79-63, in the first round of the 2001 NCAA Tournament as a No. 10 seed, while their heartbreaking 69-68 overtime loss to eventual national runner-up Florida in the 2000 tournament as a No. 12 seed has seen regular rotation on TV over the years as an ESPN "Classic." Butler's exclusion as a 25-5 team from the 2002 tournament was also considered b many as the biggest NCAA selection "snub" in several years. [11][12][13]

Of note, Butler has the best winning percentage and most wins of all D-I men's basketball programs in the state of Indiana over the last decade (21.6 wins per year through 2006), while having won the last six meetings with in-state rival Notre Dame and two of the last four against Indiana University.[14][15] Butler defeated both Notre Dame and Indiana during the 2006-07 regular season, while also defeating in-state rival Purdue to move to 2-0 against the Boilermakers this decade. Butler has also been the defending champion of the Hoosier Classic men's basketball tournament since the 2001-02 season,[16][17] and has advanced to postseason play eight of the last ten years (5 NCAA's, 3 NIT's). Butler has been to six NCAA Tournaments since 1997. [18]

I'll end by disclosing that former Illinois Sec of State/Governor (now convicted felon) GEORGE RYAN and People's Temple cult leader JIM JONES are two of Butler's illustrious alumni.
 
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Eleven

The Newsom Level
he Butler program has traditionally been one of the best of the so-called "mid-major" basketball programs over the last decade...
Ugh... think that's pouring it on a little thick?
Let's see, you play in a 1 bid conference.... and you've got 5 NCAA bids... wonder how weak that conference is historically?

No mention of the other Indiana Schools that have owned them of course..... I'm actually surprised that they don't have the fact that they've owned Ball State in recent years listed as well.
 

ISUCC

The Odum Level
Moderator
I would suspect Butler fans have thought they'd blow out ISU the past 3 season, but look at what's happened in each game? A BU loss, so there's no reason for them to change now, I see another ISU win coming.

I believe the game will be on for free (video) on the interent at the Horizon League TV site.
 

gostate03

The Varsity Level
Pre-Game?

Is there a Pre game event at Moe and Johnies this year? I know last time we had one it was a good time, If anyone has heard anything let me know!
Are manying people coming up for the game with it being on a wednesday? I know of some sycamores that live in Indy that are going but I am sure that we will need all that we can get! Should be a good one

GO STATE!!
 

Eleven

The Newsom Level
Is there a Pre game event at Moe and Johnies this year? I know last time we had one it was a good time, If anyone has heard anything let me know!
Are manying people coming up for the game with it being on a wednesday? I know of some sycamores that live in Indy that are going but I am sure that we will need all that we can get! Should be a good one
GO STATE!!
Yes there is... I tried to find the post about it... but it must have been over at the other board. I'll find it and post the details.
Edit: Found it. from:
http://members.boardhost.com/isuhoopforum/msg/1194457186.html

Bally#40 said:
Since we are ALL anxious to get this basketball season underway, I thought I would remind all of you that the ISU Indy group is hosting a pre-game party before the ISU-Butler game at Moe and Johnny's on Indy's northside next Wednesday from 4:30p-6:30pm. No reservations are necessary but I wanted to let you know that you can order game tickets thru John Newton and the Alumni Office by calling 800 258-6478. This is ALWAYS a fun event and is particularlly gratifying when the Sycamore fans take over Butler's favorite bar! I hope to see many of you there! GOOD LUCK to the TREES!
 
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D

ddmccoy1978

Guest
Butler fan here, and I think you guys are starting to stretch a few things. There may be a poster or two on our board who thinks this will be a blowout, but in my opinion and a majority of others on our board, we think this should be a pretty good ball game. At this point, we aren't even close to the team we were last year. We certainly have more "talent" than a year ago, but with a few new faces, it will take some time for us to come together as a team. I think once we're able to gel together, players find their roles, then we'll have the ability to be better than last year, but right now, that?s not the case. The loss of Crone is a big problem right now; however, Howard's presence in the post is a bright spot for us, in addition to our reliable guard play. We obviously have a lot of offensive options this season: Green and Graves can dribble drive or shoot, Campbell is lethal from deep and as I said with Howard, we now have a back to the basket scorer in the post (something we haven't had in a long time).

On the other side of the floor, I think we're still figuring things out defensively. Sure, Butler will always have a strong defense, but with new faces, we had some mental lapses against Ball State and they were able to score some easy hoops...but it wasn't from a lack of effort. I guess the only other concerns Butler might have right now is the uncharacteristic 11 turnovers we had at BSU. Sure, most teams would die to only turn it over 11 times, but for Butler, that's way too much. I'm not sure if it was the adrenaline pumping from the start of a new season or our players are still learning each other's style, but I'd like to think we'll tighten up our play and take care of the ball as the season goes along. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer those.

As for your disagreement with "the Butler program has traditionally been one of the best of the so-called "mid-major" basketball programs over the last decade..." I don't think that is too far off. Butler's record in the last decade is 222-98. Of course, the standard reply is that the Bulldogs play in a weak conference. Fair enough, but Butler justifies itself by having five NCAA Tournament appearances with five tournament wins, including two Sweet 16 appearances in five years. Until you can find me four to five other "mid-majors" with a similar resume, then it's safe to say the above statement is in fact true.

Not here to get into a pi$$ing match, I'd love to chat about the game. Thanks.
 

Eleven

The Newsom Level
Of course, the standard reply is that the Bulldogs play in a weak conference. Fair enough, but Butler justifies itself by having five NCAA Tournament appearances with five tournament wins, including two Sweet 16 appearances in five years.
Two Sweet 16 appearances I will give serious credence to. 5 NCAA appearances... How many of those were because Bulter won their conference? How many times did the conference send multiple teams? (Note - the MVC may well just send 1 this year as well.)
Only have to 2002 available to me.. but how do you get 5 NCAA appearances in 5 years from the following?

2002 - 1st - Detroit 2nd, Wisconsin-Milwaukee 3rd 1.5 games out of conference lead 15-13.
2003 - 1st - Wisconsin-Milwaukee 2nd - 1 game back 24-8.
2004 - 6th - Wisconsin-Milwaukee 1st 20-11.
2005 - 7th - Wisconsin-Milwaukee 1st 26-6.
2006 - 2nd - Wisconsin-Milwaukee 1st 22-9.
2007 - 1st - Wright State 2nd 18-15.

Looks like Wisconsin-Milwaukee has been the biggest competition in the Horizon League averaging over 20 wins per season through that period. Are they one of the "best so-called mid-majors" as well?
 
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B

BU Grad

Guest
It's not five appearances in five years, it's two sweet 16 appearances in five years and five wins in five appearances. We have gone three times as the conference tournament champ and twice as an at-large bid in that span. Both Sweet 16 appearances came as at-large bids. In 2002 we were the regular season champs but lost in the tournament and did not get an at-large bid. A couple of NIT bids in there (2002 and 2006) as well.

Regardless, Wikipedia is not exactly authoritative. I'd be willing to bet that the Butler entry was written by someone very closely associated with the school, thus there are probably statements that aren't really facts but are more opinions. That wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened on that site.

Anyway, best of luck tomorrow (within reason ;-)). Some of us wanted to talk about the game since you all are kind of a black box with a new coach. We are kind of in a similar boat, but you all seem to care about other things.
 

gostate03

The Varsity Level
Butler

What does butler have as far as depth? I know that they start 5 seniors (I think a couple are 5th and a 6th year in there) but that is really all that I have heard. I like what we have coming off the bench and it will be interesting to see how far coach goes into that now that we are playing someone on our level. Maybe if we get up and down the floor they will start to wear out?

GO STATE!
 
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