Indiana High School Basketball

[sycamore fan]

Take a look at the North girls, they are starting to schedule Turkey Run every year now that Turkey Run is a distinguished 1A power in girls basketball. It also gives North a measuring stick on where they are at. It doesn't look good for North getting beat by a 1A school, especially when they begin the state tournament.

I love the Turks and the win over North was great!....but a distinguished 1A power? They have a great class going through. You might check the records before this group and then follow them after this class is done.

 

[landrus13]

They have been very good throughout this decade, except for 3 years in the middle of this decade where they finished under .500. They have had some very solid teams this decade, they have even had a player go to IU on a full athletic scholarship.

 

[True Blue]

As a fan of 4A schools, North and South, this is how I like they're schedule to be set up. 7 conference games against 4a, 10 against other 4a, 1-2 against 3a, and 1-2 against 1a. That's how they're usually set up. You want to be challenged against teams your own size, play your smaller rival(WV), and a couple "gimme" games that aren't always gimmes. South plays Rockville now every year since Mahurin went to south.

 

[TH_Sycamore12]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20101109/SPORTS02/101109028/?odyssey=mod|dnmiss|sports

Here is a link to the Indy Star's Fab 15. I know that this has the potential to include the Terre Haute schools because south was on this a few years ago. Looks like it may be a rough season in the MIC for THS/N. You can click on year team and there is a write up about what to expect and who are the key players. Most all of these teams have 1 or 2 or maybe 3 Division 1 recruits. I still will argue Indianapolis basketball per capita is the best in the country.

That Kyle Neddenreip is an idiot.

 

[dr. bucket]

As a fan of 4A schools, North and South, this is how I like they're schedule to be set up. 7 conference games against 4a, 10 against other 4a, 1-2 against 3a, and 1-2 against 1a. That's how they're usually set up. You want to be challenged against teams your own size, play your smaller rival(WV), and a couple "gimme" games that aren't always gimmes. South plays Rockville now every year since Mahurin went to south.

you can play 18 regular season games unless you are in a tournament (such as wabash valley) then you can add four more

 

[sycamore fan]

I completely understand the sentimental longing for the days of Bobby Plump, the underdog small school, and all kinds of stuff related to the 50’s and 60’s. The truth is…that stuff wasn’t happening anymore. High school hoops was dying long before the change to multi-class. Remember...there wasn’t much else to do back in the old days. You either went to the high school game or listened to the radio!

The vote to change to the multi-class system was decisive. There has been no real effort to revert back to the old days. Very few school administrators seem to even want to discuss it.

For a 1A school we play TH South, Noblesville, Indy Chatard, Frankfort, West Vigo..etc... We also had invitations to play Zionsville and Richmond. We're not a 1A power, but we do bring lots of fans and it does not seem embarrassing to play us. I'm not sure why.

We have no problem scheduling bigger schools. It seemed like the class system eliminated small vs big school games at first, but they’ve been coming back more and more each year. Since everyone makes the tourney, it's not like you have to earn BCS-type rating points by strength of schedule.

Money drives lots of scheduling decisions. If my AD skipped a chance for a big payday gate, I'd find a new AD. Would you rather your kids sell candy bars door to door or make money playing a big game in front of a big crowd? That's not exploitation, that's common sense.

We never tell our kids they can't compete. We never expect to lose regardless of whom we play. The reality is… we're not going to beat the big boys too often. I do love trying though.

What class basketball eliminated was Riverton Parke playing in the Terre Haute Sectional. On their best year they might be able to upset a North or a South, but they were not going to beat North, South, Northview, and West Vigo in the same year. Purists will say “why not,” but the reality was that they simply never did. You could count the number of games SV and RP won in the old TH sectional on one hand (especially if you didn’t count the games when they played each other).

 

[True Blue]

you can play 18 regular season games unless you are in a tournament (such as wabash valley) then you can add four more

I think it is 20. Then if your in a tournament you get up to 22. Muncie Central plays in no tourney, but has 20 games scheduled. I maybe wrong though.

If you add mine up it comes to 21, so thats pretty right on. They both usually play 1 1a school(sometimes 2) in that tournament and 1 regular season(rockville, Turkey Run, and Bloomfield) are the usual ones. North has all 4a, 2 3a, and 0 1a on regular season schedule. South has 2 3a, 1 2a(Bloomfield, which I thought was 1a), and 1 1a(rockville).

 

[dr. bucket]

I think it is 20. Then if your in a tournament you get up to 22. Muncie Central plays in no tourney, but has 20 games scheduled. I maybe wrong though.

If you add mine up it comes to 21, so thats pretty right on. They both usually play 1 1a school(sometimes 2) in that tournament and 1 regular season(rockville, Turkey Run, and Bloomfield) are the usual ones. North has all 4a, 2 3a, and 0 1a on regular season schedule. South has 2 3a, 1 2a(Bloomfield, which I thought was 1a), and 1 1a(rockville).

you're right

 

[BallyHooHoo]

i like class basketball. makes competition even. a school with 300 kids has less athletes to choose from than a school that has over 2000.

Sounds a bit communist. "lets give everyone a chance" Screw that. Down with class basketball.

FYI I went to a small school.

 

[Gotta Hav]

What message are you sending the students with 300 enrollment. Is it "You can not compete so we are not going to try?" Life is not that way, colleges do not care if they are from an enrollment of 300 or 4000 neither do employers. Winning is not everything, learning to give the maximum when the challenge seems impossible is just, if not, more important. All class basketball has done is too widen the level of play between the classes and (2) most 4A schools will no longer schedule 1A schools because they have nothing to gain.This ends up hurting the athletes from the 1A schools because they do not get challenged to the maximum and most colleges want to see players against top flight competition this is why recruiting now revolves around AAU, especially for 1A players.

I oppose 50% of this.

 

[Sycamore Proud]

Just think about it for a moment. If one high school basketball player (Bobby Plump) had missed the last shot of his high school career, this whole class basketball discussion would most likely never have taken place. And the best sports movie of all time, Hoosiers, would never have been made. Personally, I love the movie and hate the bickering.

 

[SycamoreinTexas]

I miss single-class basketball just for the simple fact that was the only time Vincennes Lincoln would win! Now they have won 1 since class. Should have won about 7 but our coach was a straight idiot. I remember as a kid going to Evansville and watch Lincoln in Regionals and Semi-State. Got absolutely hosed in the semi-state against Bloomington North. Duany Duany dominated! Lincoln lost by 2. I was heartbroken!

 

[4Q_iu]

i think high schools with 4,500 students didn't exist in the distant haze of the past of Milan's glory years

Muncie Central was approximately 10 times larger than Milan.

There are 750 HS in the 1950s IHSAA tournament; today there are 300 and change, the 1950 population in Indiana was ~4M people; (today it's 6M), Indiana's rural areas are becoming more rural, it's urban areas are becoming more urban.

HS basketball was still HUGE in 1997; I don't remember it 'suffering' -- attendance may have platued but it wasn't in 'critical condition.'

Moving to class basketball was simply about SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches who wanted to FINALLY win a IHSAA Sectional. Period. Nothing more.

 

[sycamore fan]

Muncie Central was approximately 10 times larger than Milan.

There are 750 HS in the 1950s IHSAA tournament; today there are 300 and change, the 1950 population in Indiana was ~4M people; (today it's 6M), Indiana's rural areas are becoming more rural, it's urban areas are becoming more urban.

HS basketball was still HUGE in 1997; I don't remember it 'suffering' -- attendance may have platued but it wasn't in 'critical condition.'

Moving to class basketball was simply about SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches who wanted to FINALLY win a IHSAA Sectional. Period. Nothing more.

More baseless mumbo-jumbo...There are as many large high schools as there are small high schools...the classes are divided into 4 equal units. So how did the equal number of "SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches" manipulate the vote into the overwhelming decision?

 

[4Q_iu]

More baseless mumbo-jumbo...There are as many large high schools as there are small high schools...the classes are divided into 4 equal units. So how did the equal number of "SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches" manipulate the vote into the overwhelming decision?

Look up the votes on class basketball; they only people FOR IT were the 1A schools today.

The move to class basketball killed HS basketball in Indiana; folks can blame urbanization, cable tv, the Colts, crappy coverage by the Indy Star, etc, etc.

As to the classes, well of course there are '4 equal units' -- but that's simply a matter of moving the cutoff numbers to ensure each class has an equitable number of school in it. It DOESN"T mean that each 4A school has the same number of kids, nor does it mean that there is a 1A school that cooresponds to a 4A school.

 

[dr. bucket]

the past is over; life is change

 

[sycamorebacker]

Look up the votes on class basketball; they only people FOR IT were the 1A schools today.

So what? Why would a big school be for it. They were being handed an easy ride to the regional or beyond. Of course they had nothing to gain and everything to lose. It's fun clobbering their little neighbors, usually on their home court.
Class ball has nothing to do with the popularity. Why do fans blast class bball and accept class football? You can't argue both ways.

 

[Sycamore Proud]

Should the NCAA be one single tournament with no classes?

 

[landrus13]

Have any of you guys been to the 2010 Terre Haute Tip-Off Classic at West Vigo yet?

I haven't been yet, but all 4 games so far have been blowouts.

 

[SycamoreFan317]

Muncie Central was approximately 10 times larger than Milan.

There are 750 HS in the 1950s IHSAA tournament; today there are 300 and change, the 1950 population in Indiana was ~4M people; (today it's 6M), Indiana's rural areas are becoming more rural, it's urban areas are becoming more urban.

HS basketball was still HUGE in 1997; I don't remember it 'suffering' -- attendance may have platued but it wasn't in 'critical condition.'

Moving to class basketball was simply about SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches who wanted to FINALLY win a IHSAA Sectional. Period. Nothing more.

4Q I tried to tell him this earlier in this thread and he just blew it off as he is now, but you are correct.