GoSycamores
The Renn Level
TERRE HAUTE, Ind. – Indiana State men's basketball fell to Belmont on Saturday afternoon at homme, 84-79. Indiana State moved to 9-8, 3-3 MVC while Belmont improved to 12-5, 4-2 MVC.
More...
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
[January 11, 2025] Indiana State (9-7) vs Belmont (11-5)
- Thread starter Jason Svoboda
- Start date
WANTED: Passionate Sycamore Fanatics. That You?
Register NOW to join our community of die-hard Sycamore fans.
TERRE HAUTE, Ind. – Indiana State men's basketball fell to Belmont on Saturday afternoon at homme, 84-79. Indiana State moved to 9-8, 3-3 MVC while Belmont improved to 12-5, 4-2 MVC.
More...
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
People pissed at Graves needs to step away for a minute and get their emotions in check. I saw him working the officials more today than ever before. I think the coaching staff has done a fine job to this point in the season and expectations have grown with winning. Unfortunately play from players young and old have been inconsistent.
We’ve seen sparks from every player and we’ve seen poor play from every player. Each night it’s trying to find a rotation that gives the best chance to win every given night. There has not been enough consistent performances to lock a rotation in. AG play has improved and put him in the rotation, taking minutes from Walker. Vorst should pass Harding in the rotation. Bruno and LeGree’s play has dropped off as of late but who is going to play their position in the rotation. Teel is still putting up points but his threes aren’t falling as much as we’ve seen. This team screams inconsistency. Coaching doesn’t make/miss shots, miss defensive assignments, or throw the ball into the stands.
This team needs time and we are probably still playing at or slightly above this teams true expectations. I want to win every game but this is not regular season championship team and if you thought we are you are kidding yourself. I may have convinced myself we could be in the top four with our play early and maybe we still can due to the league this year. However, preseason I didn’t truly think we were a top 4 team.
We could easy be 6-0 or 1-5 in league play. Every conference game, with the exception of Murray State, could have resulted with a W or L. I give this whole team credit for being in every game. There’s been a couple they could have packed the tent up and went home but they got back into it. Sure, better starts would have been nice and probably would led to wins.
I’m not ready to throw flame to the coaching staff nor will I this year. Is there room for improvement? Yes, as I can improve at my job every day.
JS wasn’t an over animated coach and honestly it gives the coach more creditability when they do get pissed.
I respect MG’s demeanor, I may get ripped for this but one of my favorite coaches, Tony Dungy, wasn’t an animated coach either. I sometimes wish he would show more emotions but hell sometimes I show too much emotion. It’s a balancing act.
We’ve seen sparks from every player and we’ve seen poor play from every player. Each night it’s trying to find a rotation that gives the best chance to win every given night. There has not been enough consistent performances to lock a rotation in. AG play has improved and put him in the rotation, taking minutes from Walker. Vorst should pass Harding in the rotation. Bruno and LeGree’s play has dropped off as of late but who is going to play their position in the rotation. Teel is still putting up points but his threes aren’t falling as much as we’ve seen. This team screams inconsistency. Coaching doesn’t make/miss shots, miss defensive assignments, or throw the ball into the stands.
This team needs time and we are probably still playing at or slightly above this teams true expectations. I want to win every game but this is not regular season championship team and if you thought we are you are kidding yourself. I may have convinced myself we could be in the top four with our play early and maybe we still can due to the league this year. However, preseason I didn’t truly think we were a top 4 team.
We could easy be 6-0 or 1-5 in league play. Every conference game, with the exception of Murray State, could have resulted with a W or L. I give this whole team credit for being in every game. There’s been a couple they could have packed the tent up and went home but they got back into it. Sure, better starts would have been nice and probably would led to wins.
I’m not ready to throw flame to the coaching staff nor will I this year. Is there room for improvement? Yes, as I can improve at my job every day.
JS wasn’t an over animated coach and honestly it gives the coach more creditability when they do get pissed.
I respect MG’s demeanor, I may get ripped for this but one of my favorite coaches, Tony Dungy, wasn’t an animated coach either. I sometimes wish he would show more emotions but hell sometimes I show too much emotion. It’s a balancing act.
Valley is tough this year, just sucks we havent won convincingly yet. Dogfight with Evansville, near late choke with Murray, 3 close losses.
Tbh I just dont know what to feel with this roster. Bruno and Harding are near liabilities atm, Wagner contributes nothing when hes shooting cold from 3. Jahni just seems like a let down. I like Doughty but he always finds himself in foul trouble. The only 2 I feel confident with are Teel and JD.
Tbh I just dont know what to feel with this roster. Bruno and Harding are near liabilities atm, Wagner contributes nothing when hes shooting cold from 3. Jahni just seems like a let down. I like Doughty but he always finds himself in foul trouble. The only 2 I feel confident with are Teel and JD.
Keep working, stay out of Thursday in St. Louis!
Was there no putt this afternoon?
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
Top 4 finish? That's a tough ask right now--especially with this brutal part of the schedule coming up.
Go 2-2 & we're still in the mix.
With so much parity, a 6,7, maybe even 8 loss team might be top 4 at season's end.
Hope the team creates it's own confidence, has great practices, prepares well, & plays with abundant enthusiasm. No more slow starts.
3-1 or 4-0, even better
At the end of the day this team has been absolute dog shit at home… SIUE, Bradley, Belmont - apparently can’t win at home where most shitty teams are able to actually pick up wins.
Graves is on the clock. What seniors are you talking to in the locker room? Teel? Guy might not be a natural born leader but he can’t give you anymore than he is. So Harding? He isn’t good Coach. Adjust. Make a move.
Graves is on the clock. What seniors are you talking to in the locker room? Teel? Guy might not be a natural born leader but he can’t give you anymore than he is. So Harding? He isn’t good Coach. Adjust. Make a move.
This is a pretty good perspective for those of you searching for such a thing.
Agreed. After seeing with my own eyes, there's 1 adjustment that looked obvious. Vorst brought a different defensive energy & seems to better understand the offense.
Fully Support every Sycamore player & coach, but Vorst has earned PT at the 5 spot. No denying.
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
sycamore tuff
The Renn Level
Who’s mad at the coach? I am very happy he’s our coach. He and his staff have done much better than expected. Have there been any games in conference that we didn’t think we had a chance to win? That wasn’t the case at the beginning of the season.
SycamoreSuperFan
The Sycamore Level
One of the biggest ovations of the day was when Vorst checked in the game
There are people, maybe not as many on this platform as much as others.
Coaching staff hasn’t been perfect and there could be improvement. MG has admitted so in interviews. But overall, my opinion is we have met or exceeded expectations to this point in the season.
The seasons goal has always been improve and be playing our best basketball in March to have a chance to go win in St. Louis.
DyedBlue
The All-MVC Level
Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find.
Given that the ISU base defense is to switch all screens and its pick and roll defense by most combinations is vulnerable, getting a hard number on points scored against a player is a bit of a soft number.
But just for you I rewatched the Belmont game to get a sense of how many points were scored by the player Bruno was guarding.
First, he played 30 minutes and Belmont scored 84 in 40 minutes. So, with five guys on the floor for those 30, the average per player should be about 12.6
1. 3 ptr in transition when he ran at someone else's man
2. 2 FT -Fouled a shooter after an offensive rbd scramble
3. 2+1. Ran at Whitt who passed inside for a layup and foul. I don't think the open Whitt was his man
4. 2 off a P&R when he didn't get to the roll
5. 2 off another P&R
6. 2 on the ugly back cut
7. 2 on a drive by Walker
So, charging him with points scored when he hustled to cover open guys, his man scored 16 points so about 3.5 more than the average.
Whitt was a top 10 in the nation point guard recruit with four years of experience.
I also monitored who was guarding Whitt when he scored. Teel had him a lot and he got 10.
Gray 6. Belmont took advantage of ISU switches to get Gray on Whitt in the closing minutes and scored six straight
Summers allowed a 3 in one minute
Wagner 2
Daughtry 2
Legree 0
Alocen 0
I know some don't like +/-, but bear with me
Here are the ISU starter's numbers for Belmont.
Harding -7 in 14.5 minutes
Teel -6 in 33.25 minutes
Wagner -9 in 26.25 minutes
Doughty -4 in 16 minutes
Alocen -2 in 31.25 minutes
Several subs were positive
Gray +3 in 31 minutes
Summers +5 in 14.5
Vorst +4 in 3 minutes
Negative
Daughtry -2 in 22.5 minutes. This negative came in the closing minutes going from up 3 to down 5.
Legree -7 in 7.75 minutes .
Also, ISU Scored 67 points in Bruno''s 31 minutes and 12 in the 9 he was off the floor.
Something he is doing is facilitating the offense .
Most effective offensive groupings:
Teel,Wagner,Gray,Alocen,Vorst=3.89 but only 1.75 minutes . +/-= +2
Teel, Summers, Gray, Alocen, Daughtry = 2.45 ppm for 7.75 minutes. +/-=+7
Teel, Wagner, Gray, Alocen,Daughtry =2.4 ppm for 6 minutes. +/-=-3
Teel, Wagner, Doughty,Gray,Harding= 2.47 ppm for 2.5 minutes +/-=+3
Wagner,Doughty,Gray,Alocen,vHarding= 2.16 ppm for 2.75 minutes . +/-= +1. Notice Bruno was running the point in this group.
Other groupings were all less than two minutes.
Perhaps Wagner would benefit from coming off the bench with Gray taking his place. Wagner might be more relaxed in that role.
Giving Vorst a run ahead of Harding is justified by the data.
I liked the concept of Lagree at point and Teel free to roam, but Josiah has not made the best ball handling decisions of late and his outside shooting has not been good.
I do love data!!
The problem with data is that it doesn’t tell the whole story. Taking Wagner out the starting lineup would be a big mistake.
Become a Supporting Member to remove this ad and help support the site.
Prior to the Belmont game I had seen enough on Harding - go look at the box scores from the last 6 games you will have seen enough as well. Vorst/JD should eat all of those minutes until further notice. Absolutely will not happen - but what should happen.
Also prior to Belmont game I was trending out on LeGree… I’ve gone from pretty much neutral need to see more, to all-in needs to get more run to now all-out should not see the floor unless for injury or foul trouble. I’d be willing to give Cook some run at this point. Defense with LeGree is horrible. Ball handling and decision making with LeGree is not good. Shooting hasn’t been good either. When you’re that undersized you can’t be a poor shooter, poor ball handler and poor decision maker at the D1 level and see the floor.
JD - still good with him that 6th man spot in the rotation. I’d start Vorst and ask Graves to chill on not subbing until the first media timeout and quit worrying about JD and foul trouble.
Teel - needs help… Being asked to do a lot right now. Wish he could get his shot going again looked a little better vs Belmont. Also need to get him back to shooting free throws at a high level.
KD - needs to stay out of foul trouble. Other than that shooting and free throw shooting has been really steady.
Gray - has really elevated himself the last 3 games or so. Don’t see anyone playing ahead of him anytime soon.
Camp - seems to have been pressing a little bit the last couple games. I saw a couple situations where he hesitated to shoot at the Belmont game and ended up taking a worse shoot as a result of that. Really need him in that catch and shoot mode live with the result. Also haven’t minded him getting to the rim when they start selling out on his shot.
Bruno - as frustrating as his defense has been and sometimes his telegraphed passes I just don’t see who else you’d play in front of him at this point? I’ve seen what I need to see - of all the young guys on this roster Bruno has probably been the most consistent and has the highest ceiling.
Vorst - has shown me enough rebounding and defensively to want to see more. Also, if he can get his shooting woe’s figured out I don’t think he’s as limited as an offensively player as the numbers indicate. He can’t be anymore limited than Harding has been of late. He is a much much better rebounder than Harding.
Summers - Only because I think we will continue to play 8 guys but Summers is the last of the 8. Could make a case for Walker here or perhaps Cook or perhaps Alderink. These minutes are still up for grabs but it’s like 5-10 minutes a game.
Also prior to Belmont game I was trending out on LeGree… I’ve gone from pretty much neutral need to see more, to all-in needs to get more run to now all-out should not see the floor unless for injury or foul trouble. I’d be willing to give Cook some run at this point. Defense with LeGree is horrible. Ball handling and decision making with LeGree is not good. Shooting hasn’t been good either. When you’re that undersized you can’t be a poor shooter, poor ball handler and poor decision maker at the D1 level and see the floor.
JD - still good with him that 6th man spot in the rotation. I’d start Vorst and ask Graves to chill on not subbing until the first media timeout and quit worrying about JD and foul trouble.
Teel - needs help… Being asked to do a lot right now. Wish he could get his shot going again looked a little better vs Belmont. Also need to get him back to shooting free throws at a high level.
KD - needs to stay out of foul trouble. Other than that shooting and free throw shooting has been really steady.
Gray - has really elevated himself the last 3 games or so. Don’t see anyone playing ahead of him anytime soon.
Camp - seems to have been pressing a little bit the last couple games. I saw a couple situations where he hesitated to shoot at the Belmont game and ended up taking a worse shoot as a result of that. Really need him in that catch and shoot mode live with the result. Also haven’t minded him getting to the rim when they start selling out on his shot.
Bruno - as frustrating as his defense has been and sometimes his telegraphed passes I just don’t see who else you’d play in front of him at this point? I’ve seen what I need to see - of all the young guys on this roster Bruno has probably been the most consistent and has the highest ceiling.
Vorst - has shown me enough rebounding and defensively to want to see more. Also, if he can get his shooting woe’s figured out I don’t think he’s as limited as an offensively player as the numbers indicate. He can’t be anymore limited than Harding has been of late. He is a much much better rebounder than Harding.
Summers - Only because I think we will continue to play 8 guys but Summers is the last of the 8. Could make a case for Walker here or perhaps Cook or perhaps Alderink. These minutes are still up for grabs but it’s like 5-10 minutes a game.
It was the day before game day and it was a busy day for me so the list of questions was short, but I still had to wonder...
Will each team score in the 90s in regulation? Negative.
Will either team top the 100 mark? See above.
Could we please see Vorst play more minutes than Harding? Negative, but good to see him playing.
Could we please see LeGree play with a little-less reckless abandonment? Negative.
Will we see a better 3pt% than 29.2? Negative.
Will we see a better FT% than 58.1? 62.5%
How about even fewer turnovers than the improved 12 that we had vs Valpo? Negative.
How raucous will the Forest be? Oh boy. Small Forest. I do give credit to the few that were standing for the entire game.
Will each team score in the 90s in regulation? Negative.
Will either team top the 100 mark? See above.
Could we please see Vorst play more minutes than Harding? Negative, but good to see him playing.
Could we please see LeGree play with a little-less reckless abandonment? Negative.
Will we see a better 3pt% than 29.2? Negative.
Will we see a better FT% than 58.1? 62.5%
How about even fewer turnovers than the improved 12 that we had vs Valpo? Negative.
How raucous will the Forest be? Oh boy. Small Forest. I do give credit to the few that were standing for the entire game.
Last edited:
Spot on Analysis.
As for Bruno you can slide Camp to his spot and bring in Gray. Or you could give Summers a shot to try to shake things up.
I also would be fine with Walker getting more PT.
Very good analysis. Thanks for your hard work. I also lived in Greensboro for m2 years in the mid 70's and loved it. I was fortunate to be at State during the Wade /Newsom years. Great basketball. Steve Hollenbeck was a good friend of mine, This is a response to the comments on your profile.