Syc's vs SIU

Little Eddie

The All-MVC Level
Shooting woes have continued but the D has been pretty darned good considering the current health of the team. SIU did hit their first 5 or 6 shots but during that time they also had 4 TO's...they have double digit TO's at the half.

Lots of different players contributing...sick poster dunk by Crawford on Nick Evans...got fouled on the play and made his freethrow. Good finish to the half.

Harry playing but not full speed...wonder if he'll come back after the half (it'll probably cool off quite a bit.) Just a shame we didn't come out hitting shots...they're getting some decent looks it seems.
 

Little Eddie

The All-MVC Level
0-7 from the field...1-2 from the freethrow line to start the 2nd half...getting great looks but just not hitting. Tired of seeing the ball go in and out.
 

Daveinth

The Wade Level
Supporter
we are just lucky SIU was turning the ball over as much as they were or else we would have been blown out a lot worse than we did . Good thing McKennas feet didnt stink as bad as the team did . we couldnt throw the ball in the ocean tonight . Bright side of the night Isiah Martin looked his best of the season
 

ISUCC

The Odum Level
Moderator
no comment from me on this one tonight, I looked at stats and there is nothing I could say that hasn't already been said. This is just one really, really bad team we have right now.

MSU is going to beat Drake and if WSU beats Ill. State we'll be in 10th place, right where we belong at this point.
 

Superfan312

The Varsity Level
Yea, we looked really bad, but Harry Marshall wasn't 100% and Jay has been pretty sick. He looked it too. Isiah did have a pretty good game and Crawford had a nice dunk so I'll just take those positives and move on to the next game..
 

SydCamore

The Captain Level
Our poor shooting was due to Southern's tremendous defense.

By the way..... they got like 50 points from freshmen and soph's. That's not good for the other teams in the Valley.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Yeah but if you ask anyone on this board, I won't name names. But I got called out for expecting any production out of our freshman. Because my gosh they are only freshman! How can I honestly expect anything out of freshman. It's time to take accountability for what is going on here people. It is either terrible recruiting, terrible coaching, or the kids don't fit the system or something. I don't see how Cutter or Printey ever do anything at Indiana State.

If you think I am expecting to much out of the young guys please read this article and tell me I am expecting to much. Fact of the matter you people don't expect enough!

Indy Star - Bob Kravitz (Read even if you don't like Bob)
Butler Mens Basketball Team Article

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090123/SPORTS15/901230333/1034/SPORTS15
 

SydCamore

The Captain Level
Having Freshmen step up and contribute is great, but you cannot sustain success this way.

I actually talked to SIU's Assistant AD, they hate the fact that their key contributors are Freshmen. They are extremely dissappointed that their upperclassmen are under performing. Yeah they have talented young players......... What is their record? They are a .500 team.

They win because they take care of the ball and play tremendous defense. Their PG and best defender is a senior. He has played for four years and steadily accepted more responsibilities each year. Everything wasn't thrown at him when he was a freshman and their expectations of him weren't rediculous when he was a Fr and So.

The best teams in the conference are carried by Juniors and Seniors. Bradley, UNI, Ill St, Creighton.

Expecting Freshmen to carry a team is not a good idea. You will not win many games this way. If Freshmen are asked to carry the load early, when do they get to learn?
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Having Freshmen step up and contribute is great, but you cannot sustain success this way.

I actually talked to SIU's Assistant AD, they hate the fact that their key contributors are Freshmen. They are extremely dissappointed that their upperclassmen are under performing. Yeah they have talented young players......... What is their record? They are a .500 team.

They win because they take care of the ball and play tremendous defense. Their PG and best defender is a senior. He has played for four years and steadily accepted more responsibilities each year. Everything wasn't thrown at him when he was a freshman and their expectations of him weren't rediculous when he was a Fr and So.

The best teams in the conference are carried by Juniors and Seniors. Bradley, UNI, Ill St, Creighton.

Expecting Freshmen to carry a team is not a good idea. You will not win many games this way. If Freshmen are asked to carry the load early, when do they get to learn?
I never have once suggested that they should CARRY the team. I totally agree that Freshman can't carry the team nor would I expect them to. Fact of the matter is Freshman can contribute and do contribute nation wide on a nightly basis. And anyone who expects less out of them and does not have any expectations on them what so ever has not played division one sports or has no clue what is going on.
 

SydCamore

The Captain Level
Morgan,

Yeah they should contribute. But that is the least of our worries, right now. Unless we pack it in for the season and strictly work on the future.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Well at this point my friend the future is are only hope. Because my all estimations this season is dead in the water. It was over before it started! I do like the recruiting class coming in! Local kids but impressive.
 
P

prof. hardwood .

Guest
Yeah but if you ask anyone on this board, I won't name names. But I got called out for expecting any production out of our freshman. Because my gosh they are only freshman! How can I honestly expect anything out of freshman. It's time to take accountability for what is going on here people. It is either terrible recruiting, terrible coaching, or the kids don't fit the system or something. I don't see how Cutter or Printey ever do anything at Indiana State.

If you think I am expecting to much out of the young guys please read this article and tell me I am expecting to much. Fact of the matter you people don't expect enough!

Indy Star - Bob Kravitz (Read even if you don't like Bob)
Butler Mens Basketball Team Article

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090123/SPORTS15/901230333/1034/SPORTS15
here' something i posted about butler several months ago:

several things contribute to this. the first is continuity. they run the same system year after year. a system in which fundamentals and team are the primary values, in fact they are religion. their coaches come up through the ranks in the system and so are familiar with it, know the kind of players needed to make it successful and why it is successful. they learn to trust the system. they understand, as well, what kind of players it takes to make the system go. players who can pass and shoot (and play defense). players who commit to the team. intelligent players who are hardnosed and mentally tough. they value basketball skill over individual athletic skills.

the spokes change but the wheel keeps turning cause you are replacing the spokes with their equivalents.

"Butler was constantly running screens to get their guys shots. And they weren't just one and done. They were set plays with three, four or even five screens in a row. We don't do nearly enough of that."

there isn't anything wrong with getting a shot off a set offense without dribbling for 25 seconds. it used to be called basketball. today it's called old school and butler gets the best old school players.

in the end they have created a culture — a culture that cares little for what goes on outside it and whose values are all internal and which no one wishes to betray. there is nothing worse than being a member of such a culture and getting cast out to play with the dribblers, ankle breakers, slashers and high flyers of the world. it's worse than hell.

now how do you get to this point is the next question.

and look at their roster:

matt howard — indiana all-star
zach hahn – indiana all-star
gordon hayward — indiana all-star
chase stigall — indiana all-star
garrett butcher — indiana all-star
shelvin mack — kentucky all-star, mr. basketball runner-up
grant leinendecker — indiana all-star


does this help?
 
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SydCamore

The Captain Level
Haha! You are a pessimist! Or maybe a realist?

We are going to turn it on and win the conference tourney. The early indications are that we will be playing on Thursday, but that's ok.

The players coming in next year are pretty good. This type of class will not be produced locally on a consistent basis.

If we get Justin Gant, that will be huge!
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
And we agree on something! I want Justin Gant for sure! I think their is a good possibility he comes here! I don't care who else puts their name in the hat, he's a local kid and comes to all the games.

I am going to go out on a limb and say he comes to Indiana State. I will be the first to say it!

Prof. Hardwood- Very sweet info. I had no idea the quality of players they were bring in. I mean we should def. no aspire to bring in a good recruiting class like that. How can we? If it's to hard to do then why try? Ugh. The attitudes of some Sycamore fans are just poor. We want a winning program but we don't want to hold anyone accountable and we want to look at other programs and say that's out of reach.
 
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SydCamore

The Captain Level
And I thought you were a pessimist?

We need to get to the point where we can compete with some of the schools that have offered him.
 

SydCamore

The Captain Level
We should be able to compete with Butler for kids...........

They have it figured out and now we need to figure it out. We have more tradition (1978-79, and early 2000s), a better facility, and we play in a MUCH better conference.

There is a reason they don't want to play us anymore................ Hmmmmmm? They know we should be able to compete with them for kids and they don't want to come to our place and lose.
 

sycamorebacker

The Menser Level
I never have once suggested that they should CARRY the team. I totally agree that Freshman can't carry the team nor would I expect them to. Fact of the matter is Freshman can contribute and do contribute nation wide on a nightly basis. And anyone who expects less out of them and does not have any expectations on them what so ever has not played division one sports or has no clue what is going on.
In conference games, Richard is leading the team in rebounds and scoring 8 ppg. Printy leads the team in steals and A/TO ratio, and is 2nd in assists.
Our team's problem is in the upperclassmen, or lack thereof. I don't know why you are so hard on the freshmen. That's not our problem.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
In conference games, Richard is leading the team in rebounds and scoring 8 ppg. Printy leads the team in steals and A/TO ratio, and is 2nd in assists.
Our team's problem is in the upperclassmen, or lack thereof. I don't know why you are so hard on the freshmen. That's not our problem.
I know you love to throw stats at me all the time and they are good stats. I appreciate you making me aware of them. But fact of the matter is stats lie. If you honestly watch the games and see Richard and Printy play I just don't see what you are seeing I guess. We are both looking at totally different things obviously.

You are looking at Printy going man he has a good shot. I am looking at him and going shoot the ball more and for gosh sakes when your wide open you better make it. However from what I have seen he is an excellent passer! Most impressive part of his game in my opinion. Other than that I'm not real high on him.

Richard is weak as hell with the ball. Best part of his game is his rebounding. Outside of that I think he needs a ton of work on the offensive side of the ball he is so one dimensional stupid.

And I hate to say I was right about Cutter because it might be to early to make a statement like that. But I find it interesting how he has not seen the floor in 2 games. He is where he belongs at this point. And I got news for you if you can't see the floor on this team then you can't see the floor on any division 1 team in the nation.
 

SydCamore

The Captain Level
Morgan,

I think that the issues you mention with Richard and Printy are fixable.

Jordan can learn to shoot more. Carl can learn when to and when not to take shots and play defense, etc.

Most young guys struggle in these areas. I wish our guys were more game-ready like SIU's players, but they just simply aren't.
 
G

gizzy

Guest
Love how you continue to refer to Richard as weak, just want to know what you are expecting out of this freshman. He is the leading rebounding on this team, has had three double double as a freshman, (how many times has that happened for ISU), and averaging 8ppg. Since stats lie (as you put it) and he is so weak, who as a freshman at ISU has had better overall contributions.
 
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