The No Criticism Thread

TreeTop

The Menser Level
Supporter
This thread is to talk about anything you want regarding Sycamore basketball, but without criticsm.

Nobody who pays attention to ISU basketball is happy with the W-L record....not coaches, not players, not fans, no one....we know this. So, this thread's purpose is to move beyond that. There are plenty of threads that already exist and that will be created in the future that include criticism (constructive and negative) about the team. If you have something to add in that regard, please feel free to do so in any of those threads....but not here.

Moderator(s)...please help to monitor any unwanted remarks in this thread. Thank you in advance.

I, for one, am excited about the potential of this team. Harry, Richard, Cutter, Reed, Carter, Crawford, among others have all shown great things on the court at some point this season. And I'm confident that our coaches, and with hard work from our players, are going to be able to harness this potential so that the good things they do become the norm instead of the "on occasion". We've got a great core being built for the future. When was the last time we had a freshman lead the team in rebounding? That in itself speaks volumes for next season and beyond.

By the way, Jay is approaching the 1,000 career points mark. Way to go Jay!
 

BelieveinBlue

The White Level
Thank you for starting this! I know the players (and recruits!) must read these threads and I think it makes a horrible impression for everyone to be so negative. I'm not saying I've been perfect...but I think we could all stand to be a little more positive about this team. Just look at the threads on the football program...they've struggled by far more than the basketball team and almost all the posts about them are positive and hopeful. I'm excited to see what our team can do the rest of this year and next. I think it's wonderful that we've recruited local kids, not just because they are talented, but because I think it will bring a lot more people to the games (and Lord knows we desperately need that!). Look what happened with Mel & Kristen on the women's team.

ISU Fan for LIFE!
:sycamores:
 

IndyTreeFan

The Nicks Level
Supporter
The really beautiful part about the men's team, and the part I'd forgotten about in all my depression, is that the redshirts we have have been practicing all year, and will be able to play next season. And they may be the best two players on the team. Add in RJ and Jake, plus the crew we have coming back, and to quote the legendary Red Auerbach, "...one or two little moves, and we're ready to go!"

:sycamores::sycamores::sycamores:
 

BelieveinBlue

The White Level
About that redshirt thing....do they keep dressing Koang (I think that's right) "just in case"? It seems like most of the time he is dressed but every once in awhile he isn't.
 

treefromafar

The Sycamore Level
Great thread. The thing we all need to keep in mind, like you've stated, is we are very young, inexperienced. Mckenna completely overhauled this roster to his liking, and very seldom does a college team do that without struggles. Next year will be better, and the improvement can be meteoric if the players take it upon themselves to put in the extra individual work that is needed, ie extra shooting, work on their game, weight lifting, conditioning, etc. The other thing that concerns me is like I posted on another post. This team lacks leadership on and off the court amongst the players, and leadership is better earned, than being thrust upon. I do think, however, that one or more of these younger players (ie Richard) or older newcomers (ie Reed or Lathan) will step to the forefront next season. Mckenna comes from way to good of a program to not have the stuff it takes to make it work here. Keep the faith.:sycamores:
 

sycamorebacker

The Menser Level
I'm glad you started this thread because I couldn't say this on any other. I'm excited that we hung with the league leaders and we really only got about 50% of the production out of the players that should be here a year from now. When you look at the games that Carter, Martin and Richard had and what they will be able to do with another year of experience; I think it is very promising.
I think it's beginning to show that McKenna can coach. Our shooting will come around. We only need to get some confidence. And when that happens, we will able to compete with anybody in the conference. And like I said, our players are at 50% of where they are going to be.
 

TJames

The JSW Level
my comments are not meant as criticism....

just frustration. when you live in indy and see how the butler program has progressed, it's fairly easy to be frustrated.

and comparing comments made about the football and basketball programs is like comparing apples and oranges. men's basketball has been set up to be the anchor program for the athletic department. bigger budget, better facility, better marketing over the years.

football is trying to do more with a lot less in terms of budget and facilties. since basketball is king in the state of indiana, i think most isu fans would, and should, expect the basketball program to be better.

let's just hope for better results in the near future. i think mckenna is on the right track.

by the way, was bird there today? just wondered. i know he's often hit and miss for these events.
 

Daveinth

The Wade Level
Supporter
just frustration. when you live in indy and see how the butler program has progressed, it's fairly easy to be frustrated.

and comparing comments made about the football and basketball programs is like comparing apples and oranges. men's basketball has been set up to be the anchor program for the athletic department. bigger budget, better facility, better marketing over the years.

football is trying to do more with a lot less in terms of budget and facilties. since basketball is king in the state of indiana, i think most isu fans would, and should, expect the basketball program to be better.

let's just hope for better results in the near future. i think mckenna is on the right track.

by the way, was bird there today? just wondered. i know he's often hit and miss for these events.
No Bird, Nicks, or Reed
 

sycamorebacker

The Menser Level
Yes it is frustrating but I don't think you should compare our program to Butler. About every team in the country is trying to get out of their players what Butler gets out of theirs. They have got very good talent for a "mid-major" but what they are doing is not normal. They are the pinnacle of college basketball as far as I am concerned. It is something to aspire to, but 200 other schools are trying to do what they are doing and can't.
 

TJames

The JSW Level
on comparisons to butler

the only reason that i keep bringing up what butler has accomplished in recent years is that i remember the days, and not that long ago in fact, when indiana state and butler was on pretty much equal footing when it came to their respective basketball programs.

so what's happened in the intervening years? has some wealthy butler alum come in and dumped millions of dollars into their program? i don't think so. heck, they've had as much turnover coaching-wise as isu as had.

but the one thing that they've done, through all their coaches -- barry collier, thad matta, dick hunsecker, and now brad stevens -- is that they've stuck to their guns in terms of playing style and recruiting. they call it 'the butler way.'

they don't try to get kids who won't fit into their style or who will mess up the personality of their team. that's why, like this year with several true freshmen starting or making major contributuions, they are nationally-ranked and are running away with their conference.

sometimes in recruiting, they take playing style over sheer ability. and it works for them, as the same type of mindset could work for isu. time will tell. fans must give kevin and his coaching staff the time to pull this off.
 

BankShot

The Kleuh Level
Rah Rah Rah...Go State...Syc's Rule...We're #1

Tree Power...I-S-U.

Am I forgetting one?

:sycamores:
 

treefromafar

The Sycamore Level
the only reason that i keep bringing up what butler has accomplished in recent years is that i remember the days, and not that long ago in fact, when indiana state and butler was on pretty much equal footing when it came to their respective basketball programs.

so what's happened in the intervening years? has some wealthy butler alum come in and dumped millions of dollars into their program? i don't think so. heck, they've had as much turnover coaching-wise as isu as had.

but the one thing that they've done, through all their coaches -- barry collier, thad matta, dick hunsecker, and now brad stevens -- is that they've stuck to their guns in terms of playing style and recruiting. they call it 'the butler way.'

they don't try to get kids who won't fit into their style or who will mess up the personality of their team. that's why, like this year with several true freshmen starting or making major contributuions, they are nationally-ranked and are running away with their conference.

sometimes in recruiting, they take playing style over sheer ability. and it works for them, as the same type of mindset could work for isu. time will tell. fans must give kevin and his coaching staff the time to pull this off.
Tom, I hate to keep going back to money, but I am quite sure that Butler's athletic department budget, which includes basketball, is much larger than ISU. That makes a huge difference.
 

TJames

The JSW Level
it would be nice to find out how much butler's basketball budget is....

in comparison to isu's. dont get me wrong. i once worked in the athletic department at isu, so i know how tight things can be. their budget right now may be bigger than isu's. but when butler started the process of turning their program into what it is right now, i dont think that there was that much of a difference. success brings more money into the budget. but when barry collier first took over at butler and before all the ncaa tournament appearances and national tv exposure, i just don't think that their basketball budget was that much better than isu's was at the time. and that's my point. isu could have done the same thing with the same type of committment. what was butler's secret back then and why couldn't isu follow the same type of path?
 
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HoopMaster

The Varsity Level
I know Butler has been at North and South open gyms to look at Jarvis and Gant. Are they "Butler" types?
 

treefromafar

The Sycamore Level
in comparison to isu's. dont get me wrong. i once worked in the athletic department at isu, so i know how tight things can be. their budget right now may be bigger than isu's. but when butler started the process of turning their program into what it is right now, i dont think that there was that much of a difference. success brings more money into the budget. but when barry collier first took over at butler and before all the ncaa tournament appearances and national tv exposure, i just don't think that their basketball budget was that much better than isu's was at the time. and that's my point. isu could have done the same thing with the same type of committment. what was butler's secret back then and why couldn't isu follow the same type of path?
Well said. I think with Prettyman and Bradley here, we have that committment. Like I've said before, it's a chicken or the egg thing, which comes first. We need a larger budget to to be able to expand recruiting of players and coaches, so we can be more successfull on the court. However, we need to be more successfull on the court to attract more butts in the seats to create more revenue in order to increase the department budget. I think with the current administration committment, and Coach McKenna, we can make large steps towards making these wishes become reality.
 
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