So Who Does Run Public Universities?

[garyd63]

No, this isn't big news. It's not like U of VA fired a head coach of a major money losing sport. It's just about the trustees firing the president. This article raises a number of good questions that are applicable beyond Charlottesville.

"At some point in recent American history, we started assuming that if people are rich enough, they must be experts in all things. That’s why we trust Mark Zuckerberg to save Newark schools and Bill Gates to rid the world of malaria. Expertise is so 20th century."

GO HERE

 

[Sackalot]

Though this situation is unfortunate...and I am certain that it was not handled appropriately by the Board at UVA, I have to question why the author and subsequently, you, Gary, have issue with change? It would appear that the Board has had or developed clear outcomes that they wanted reached and they were not reached. One of the main reasons that any institution of higher education exists is to not only to educate the students but also to provide outcomes (whatever those may be decided upon). Those outcomes may be research related, they may be related to vocations...whatever. But the board has every right under the charter (the board is the appointed representation of the state legislature), to RUN the university. And they are doing this. Again, I believe from this article and others that I read that the board could have gone about this differently but had the right to address their concerns.

The answer to your question is simple. Who does run a public university? The citizens and legislature of the state in which it is located. Not the president, not provost or chancellor but the citizens. Not the department chair, not the dean and certainly not the assoc. professors, but the citizens of the state, by way of the board. Now, you can argue that the board is appointed by the governor because they are "friends" and they give copious amounts of money...that may be true, but none the less, they are citizens of the State in which the institution exists and they make the decisions.

This paragraph in the article that you posted, is the main issue, "The inappropriateness of applying concepts designed for firms and sailboats to a massive and contemplative institution as a university should be clear to anyone who does not run a hedge fund or make too much money. To execute anything like strategic dynamism, one must be able to order people to do things, make quick decisions from the top down, and have a constant view of a wide array of variables. It helps if you understand what counts as an input and an output. Universities have multiple inputs and uncountable and unpredictable outputs. And that’s how we like them."

That last line is what is so much the problem...in any institution, in any school and in any workplace. Change is inevitable. And all things are "countable". For too long institutions of higher education have held this concept above to be the "word" and that is just not acceptable. If the state is going to continue to fork over millions in support of an institution, that institution will be required to meet outcomes, required to define outputs. No longer is an institution (regardless of where or what it is) that takes state money going to be able to live behind this farce that "we exist for the greater good" without first backing that statement up with defined outcomes. Colleges can no longer be considered differently than businesses. Colleges are businesses and colleges, if they are going to continue to over charge, continue to build and grow and ask for more and more money to do so, they are going to define outcomes, show their progress, etc. The state of Virginia has every right to say that this administrator was not fulfilling our expectations via the board of visitors....just like if a company was not meeting the expectations of the board and stock holders. Time to stop wearing the kid gloves when it comes to academia...public academia is an investment in the citizens of a state by the citizens of the State. Just like roads are an investment in the commerce of a state. Without roads, commerce comes to a halt. Without academia, that same commerce would halt...but just as there are standards and outcomes with a road project, there should be standards, outcomes, etc. with academia.

This statement above by the author is contrary to the real world. The fact that an academic would state, this is the way it is and we like it this way is ludicrous! This is someone speaking from that Ivory Tower up on the hill, speaking and writing because tenure protects her. I am all for her freedoms and all for her having her own beliefs on the subject. She has every right to share her opinion online. But, she is beholden to the state of Virginia and its people. And, higher education, as she puts may feel, "that is how we like them." But that way of thinking is no longer in practice. Again, this situation is unfortunate, Dr. Sullivan sounds like she was doing great work at UVA. But...as with any company, entity, etc. if those in charge do not agree, do not feel that the direction of the entity is proper or correct, the leader is removed. Dr. Sullivan is/was that leader. I mean, come on...what if a police officers talked this way? He would be fired! He is "state employee" too...

You ask who runs a public university...the people do. Not the academics, but the people. And in this case, the representatives of the people felt that Dr. Sullivan was not running fast enough.

By the way, "At some point in recent American history, we started assuming that if people are rich enough, they must be experts in all things. That’s why we trust Mark Zuckerberg to save Newark schools and Bill Gates to rid the world of malaria. Expertise is so 20th century." This is not true at all...this should say, "At some point in recent American history, we started assuming that if people are rich enough, they must have skills and knowledge that lead them to be successful. That is why we trust Mark Zuckerburg to save Newark school and Bill Gates to rid the world of malaria. We trust them because they have shown how successful they can be when they dedicate their minds, their time and their money to worthwhile causes, results and outcomes are manifested. These successful people, attack challenges from a business sense, they identify goals and they put the resources and professional expertise (people that know what they are doing) in the right place to reach those goals. They have proper and identified inputs so they achieve the desired outputs. This is unlike a college, because we don't identify the inputs (because they are not measurable) and we can't identify the outputs because we can't identify the inputs. And we like it that way." That seems more accurate to me. But what do I know, I am not an academic.

 

[Hammer and Sycamore]

Someone that doesn't know shit about education (like Zuckerberg) and then gets rich (like Zuckerberg) still doesn't know shit about education. Getting rich doesn't magically make you successful at everything you do.

 

[4Q_iu]

Though this situation is unfortunate...and I am certain that it was not handled appropriately by the Board at UVA, I have to question why the author and subsequently, you, Gary, have issue with change? It would appear that the Board has had or developed clear outcomes that they wanted reached and they were not reached. One of the main reasons that any institution of higher education exists is to not only to educate the students but also to provide outcomes (whatever those may be decided upon). Those outcomes may be research related, they may be related to vocations...whatever. But the board has every right under the charter (the board is the appointed representation of the state legislature), to RUN the university. And they are doing this. Again, I believe from this article and others that I read that the board could have gone about this differently but had the right to address their concerns...

Did you read the article by Vaidhyanathan? I didn't detect an 'anti-change' voice but rather the Why? (never revealed by the Regents/Visitors/Trustees)

As to 'handling appropriately' -- no, from most accounts it was not 'handled appropriately,' which is why Sullivan has retained counsel. As a tax payer in the Commonwealth, this issue will get worse before it gets better.

UVa has (increasingly) become a school for out-of-state students rather than HS grads OF Virginia... the State legislature wanted to spend less at/for UVa, the result - more out-of-state students are admitted (and their higher tuition), making it MUCH TOUGHER for in-state students (the in-state students still out-number the OOS but the gap is shrinking)

This case is more about the uber-wealthy wanting it THEIR way than Sullivan not "moving fast enough"

 

[Sackalot]

Someone that doesn't know shit about education (like Zuckerberg) and then gets rich (like Zuckerberg) still doesn't know shit about education. Getting rich doesn't magically make you successful at everything you do.

You are correct, but Zuckerburg gave that money to assist the school corp...and he didn't put any strings on it. They can do whatever they want to do with it. And...though he may not know as much about education as others. I can tell you as a person with a Masters in Higher Education, he knows more about it than most people that I ever worked with. He knows that an education doesn't mean a thing if you don't apply yourself. He knows that just because a textbook says it...that doesn't mean its true and he knows how to create one of the most important websites in the history of the WWW. Now, he may not know much about education, but he sure knows more than I do...because I am still struggling to make ends meat and he has 13 billion in the bank. I have more degrees than he does, and he has much, much, much more money than I do. I would trade every piece of paper on my wall for 1/10 of his money....because I wouldn't go to bed every night hoping that when I get up in the morning and go to work, I might finally get a raise of $1,000 for the year. I wouldn't have to do that because I would have 1.3 billion dollars...and none of you would ever have to read anything I write...because I would never come back to this site again...I would be too busy enjoying life and laughing at the ISU foundation!!

 

[Sackalot]

This case is more about the uber-wealthy wanting it THEIR way than Sullivan not "moving fast enough"

I assumed that was the case...

 

[4Q_iu]

... He knows that just because a textbook says it...that doesn't mean its true and he knows how to create one of the most important websites in the history of the WWW.

Thanks for the chuckle!! What in hell is "IMPORTANT" (your word) about facebook??

Popular? Yes
High traffic volume?? Yes

Important?! Not in a million years!

 

[Sackalot]

Thanks for the chuckle!! What in hell is "IMPORTANT" (your word) about facebook??

Popular? Yes
High traffic volume?? Yes

Important?! Not in a million years!

Come on 4Q...Facebook has created a major cultural shift in America and the world. 1/6 of the world has a facebook account...if that isn't "important" I don't know what is. Now, I don't like it. I wish it wasn't even in existence...but it is and it is frighteningly important to our society at this point. Some day (hopefully sooner than later) it may not continue to be important. But, the changes within our culture that are a result of facebook will remain for many, many, years. One can argue has changed our culture so much, that it will never be the same. It has been argued that in less than 20 years the political scene will be so changed that there will be no candidates for offices....
Is facebook important like faith in God...no! Is it non the less important...you are ignoring things if you think it isn't.

 

[bent20]

I'm not a huge Facebook fan either and it wasn't 100% Zuckerberg's idea, he just took it to the next level, but it is obviously quite important. Ultimately it will give way to the next step in communication, social media and networking, but it was a vital step.

 

[garyd63]

UVA President Releases Statement

I have been described as an incrementalist. It is true. Sweeping action may be gratifying and may create the aura of strong leadership, but its unintended consequences may lead to costs that are too high to bear. There has been substantial change on Grounds in the past two years, and this change is laying the groundwork for greater change. But it has all been carefully planned and executed in collaboration with Vice Presidents and Deans and representatives of the faculty. This is the best, most constructive, most long lasting, and beneficial way to change a university. Until the last ten days, the change at UVA has not been disruptive change, and it has not been high-risk change.

Corporate-style, top-down leadership does not work in a great university. Sustained change with buy-in does work. UVA is one of the world's greatest universities. . . .

Most of the faculty could earn more in some other organization, academic or non-academic. They stay to participate with other faculty "of the highest grade" and to interact with students who will be the leaders of the next generation. Their financial sacrifices have their limits; of course the faculty must be appropriately compensated.

But at the end of the day, money alone is not enough. The faculty must also believe that they can do their best work here. They must believe in the future here. At any great university, the equilibrium – the pull between the desire to stay and the inducements to leave – is delicate. Rapid change rapidly upsets this delicate equilibrium.

Already in the last ten days we have lost faculty to other universities. Fortunately, we are well past the usual hiring season in most disciplines. But deans and provosts at every peer institution are setting aside funds now to raid the University of Virginia next year given the current turmoil on our campus.

The last statement, the one I've placed in bold italics, is good guide to how great universities decline into mediocrity.

Full statement here

 

[Sackalot]

It is certainly unfortunate that this is happening. However, what would you have happen in this situation. Would you have felt the same way if Benjamin had been run out town when the faculty voted no confidence in him (what 3 different times)?

 

[4Q_iu]

Come on 4Q...Facebook has created a major cultural shift in America and the world. 1/6 of the world has a facebook account...if that isn't "important" I don't know what is. Now, I don't like it. I wish it wasn't even in existence...but it is and it is frighteningly important to our society at this point. Some day (hopefully sooner than later) it may not continue to be important. But, the changes within our culture that are a result of facebook will remain for many, many, years. One can argue has changed our culture so much, that it will never be the same. It has been argued that in less than 20 years the political scene will be so changed that there will be no candidates for offices....
Is facebook important like faith in God...no! Is it non the less important...you are ignoring things if you think it isn't.

The world's population is ~7,021,000,000 people (March 2012 estimate), facebook claims ~900 million users... that's not 1/6 but even if it was, number of users of a website hardly constitutes "important." In fact the fact that some people CLAIM the IMPORTANCE of facebook shows how 'ed up the world has become in this age.

Back to what's MORE important; how the politically-appointed wealthy throw their weight around to get "their way..."

Has it always happened? Probably, is it getting worse? Probably. The original article was accurate, how much weight did Rockefeller, Mellon, Stanford throw around on campus?? How much did Chauncey Rose toss in T-H? Probably not as much as 'Dragas' at UVa...

 

[garyd63]

President Daniels ?!? Now there's a guy who understands higher education -- NOT.

If Daniels is chosen as Purdue's President, you have an excellent example of who should not run a university. This comment on the Evansville Courier blog nicely sums up My Man Mitch's wonderful resume on education:

Let's see, he has openly supported Western Governors University, which does not accept all state university courses-but he has mandated WGU courses be accepted by the State Universities.

He has overfunded the community college program trying to lead people to believe you can get an equal education at a community college as you do at a traditional 4 year degree school.

He has directed that the funding for the big Indiana schools Purdue, IU, ISU, USI, IUPUI and others be cut and not equally funded.

He has pushed high schools to teach "college (credit) level courses, instead of teaching high school courses.

He has pushed that state universities change their bachelors program from a 4 year program to a 3 year program.

Ask any professor at any State University-non will have anything good to say about Mitch Daniels and his education platform.

 

[4Q_iu]

If Daniels is chosen as Purdue's President, you have an excellent example of who should not run a university. This comment on the Evansville Courier blog nicely sums up My Man Mitch's wonderful resume on education:

What in the world does Daniels know about finances? He ran the US Gov't OMB for several years; he was one of the architects behind the run-away federal deficit!

You would assume there is a conflict of interest as daniels has named most / several of the purdue trustees