# [January 4, 2017] Indiana State (6-8) at Southern Illinois (8-7)



## Jason Svoboda

vs. 






*Indiana State Sycamores (6-8) vs. Southern Illinois Salukis (8-7)

*​*SIU Arena - Carbondale, IL
Wednesday, January 4, 2017
​8:00 PM EST Tip​*


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## Southgrad07

Too early for a must win?? 0-3 with ill st coming in would be rough. Very beatable team here in SIU.


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## BlueSycamore

I see another Valley loss coming. Hope I am wrong but I don't see any chance of playing a 40 minute or maybe even 45 minute game at this point. Also consistency is not a strong suit & playing pretty well at Springfield does not bode well for this one - the teeter/totter effect.


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## BrokerZ

We'll win this game. SIU is not good. If we can hang with MSU on the road like we did we should have the confidence and ability to take this one on the road. 

Oh, and Barry Hinson is a terrible coach.  Just wanted to get that out now before the Hinson love fest begins.


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## Jason Svoboda

We shoot the ball well, we'll win.

We shoot the ball average but keep the rebounding edge even, we'll likely win.

We shoot the ball average but lose the rebounding edge, we'll likely lose.

We shoot the ball poorly, we'll lose.

How's that for hedging my bets?


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## meistro

I hope we can pull this one out but it's a road game and you never know. As I've said, this first 4 game conference stretch is tough and I could easily see us going 0-4 but I'm hoping for 2-2. We're at that point where we could continue to get better or a couple more losses and we could lose all confidence and end up in the cellar.


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## goindystate

we're in the same scenario here as we were in Florida, coming off 2 very close losses to very good teams, now we're playing a very bad Southern Illinois team in game 3 (i.e. same as Quinnipiac) on the road. A game we "should" win, but expecting a loss. Hoping the team hasn't thrown in the towel on the season yet, still very early and lots of time to make amends.


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## sycamorebacker

goindystate said:


> Hoping the team hasn't thrown in the towel on the season yet, still very early and lots of time to make amends.



Several close losses.  We need a road win to get some confidence and momentum.


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## ISUfan21

Should be a good game. If we get the lead we can't let our foot off the gas. If they get momentum it will hurt us. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


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## Bluethunder

Just as I had a bad feeling about the MSU game and expected a double digit loss, I don't have a negative vibe for this one.  I think we get this one.

Must win game, who will step up.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bluethunder said:


> Just as I had a bad feeling about the MSU game and expected a double digit loss, I don't have a negative vibe for this one.  I think we get this one.
> 
> Must win game, who will step up.


I got Devonte with a deep three to win it for us. You?


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> I got Devonte with a deep three to win it for us. You?



Nice memory.  Didn't he make two of them?


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## BankShot

BrokerZ said:


> We'll win this game. SIU is not good. If we can hang with MSU on the road like we did we should have the confidence and ability to take this one on the road.
> 
> Oh, and Barry Hinson is a terrible coach.  Just wanted to get that out now before the Hinson love fest begins.



http://www.siusalukis.com/news/2017/1/1/defense-sparks-mens-basketball-to-83-69-win-over-drake.aspx

Maybe the SIU fans will hold a "Chris Lowery" recall referendum?

Anyone know what the outcome was on his multi-million suit v. SIU?
http://thesouthern.com/news/local/l...cle_59e24ccc-8df2-11e2-ace4-0019bb2963f4.html


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## TreeTop

It's the third game of the conference season and I have to wonder...

Will Lansing start the conference season 0-3 for the first time in his tenure?
Will this game go into OT?
Will this game come down to the last possession?
Will either team win by double digits?
Will it be just a straight up ugly game?
Will our Sycamores turn a corner and find their mojo?
Will Hinson deliver an instant-classic press conference?
Will Scott score a career high (though I don't know what his career high is)?
Will anyone on the Sycamores have a double-double?
If so, who?
If no double-double, which player will we be talking about after the game?
How long is the bus ride from Terre Haute to Carbondale (I'm not gonna google it)?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Will Lansing start the conference season 0-3 for the first time in his tenure?
*No. Although I can see the stress of it starting to mount. This is a big basketball game for this team. *

Will this game go into OT?
*No. Sycamores win by 4*

Will this game come down to the last possession?
*No. *

Will either team win by double digits?
*No. *

Will it be just a straight up ugly game?
*No. I think the team that shoots/makes the most free throws will win the game. In other words, the Sycamores have to play good defense without fouling and if they do I think we will be in pretty good shape. When you are better than the home team (and we are better) you can't give them free points. *

Will our Sycamores turn a corner and find their mojo?
*Yes & No. Yes we will turn a corner - not sure that means we've found our mojo. *

Will Hinson deliver an instant-classic press conference?
*Yes if he wants to keep his job - about the only thing Hinson is as a coach is entertaining. *

Will Scott score a career high (though I don't know what his career high is)?
*30 vs. Northern Iowa on 1/13/16. Negative, but if his game vs. Mo State was any indication his 3pt shot is starting to turnaround and he's not going to shoot 67% from the line all season. So I think the 19ppg he is averaging is probably pretty close to what you can expect from him every game if not a few more. He scores 23 in this one. *

Will anyone on the Sycamores have a double-double?
*Doubtful. Scott and Clemons are our leading rebounders... *

If so, who?
*No. *

If no double-double, which player will we be talking about after the game?
*Hell I don't know - this team is a mystery. *

How long is the bus ride from Terre Haute to Carbondale (I'm not gonna google it)?[/QUOTE]
*3ish - I forget made this trip a few times and it's never been worth the time/money invested based on how we've played.*


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## BrokerZ

TreeTop said:


> It's the third game of the conference season and I have to wonder...
> 
> Will Lansing start the conference season 0-3 for the first time in his tenure?
> - No.  I feel pretty good about our chances in this one.
> 
> Will this game go into OT?
> - I don't think so.  I think it'll be close, but we win by at least 5.
> 
> Will this game come down to the last possession?
> - I think it's close down the stretch, but we make the plays we need to preserve our lead in the closing minutes.
> 
> Will either team win by double digits?
> - No, but I think we win by mid to high single digits.
> 
> Will it be just a straight up ugly game?
> - Yes, but conference road games usually are.  Style points matter for nothing now that conference play has begun.  Survive and advance.
> 
> Will our Sycamores turn a corner and find their mojo?
> - I think this is the turning point for the conference season anyway.  Getting our first win on the road under our belt will do a lot to boost confidence.
> 
> Will Hinson deliver an instant-classic press conference?
> - Don't care.  I'm not trying to be a dick, but I could care less about Barry Hinson.  If he coached and recruited as well as he ran his mouth, his teams would be much better.
> 
> Will Scott score a career high (though I don't know what his career high is)?
> - Highly unlikely being a road game.
> 
> Will anyone on the Sycamores have a double-double?
> - Yes.
> 
> If so, who?
> - Clemons. 11 points and 10 rebounds.
> 
> If no double-double, which player will we be talking about after the game?
> - I think Clemons has a good game (just a hunch), but inevitably we'll be talking about our frontcourt (i.e. rebounding, point production, etc.).
> 
> How long is the bus ride from Terre Haute to Carbondale (I'm not gonna google it)?



Go get this one guys!


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## krwilson2

Barry Hinson has been in ISU's head forever.  On games in which we believe they'll play slow, they play slower.  In games where we think they'll push the ball, they play slower.  The zone his teams have employed seem to have a Jedi-mind-trick-effect on each Sycamore team...


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## SycamoreStateofMind

krwilson2 said:


> Barry Hinson has been in ISU's head forever.  On games in which we believe they'll play slow, they play slower.  In games where we think they'll push the ball, they play slower.  The zone his teams have employed seem to have a Jedi-mind-trick-effect on each Sycamore team...



This team moves the ball better than past teams that have been zoned and I think this team can shoot them out of a zone if they try to employ it. Scott, Barnes, MVS, Niels and Paige have all shown the ability to make the 3 ball. MVS is shooting it at a clip of around 43% I believe - if we move the ball and make shots they will not be in the zone long - but that kinda goes without saying. lol


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## krwilson2

I ageee - the shooting is potentially MUCH better and they do move the ball well...perhaps we get a larger dose of Barnes on the wing and someone working the FT line for kick outs...


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## Jason Svoboda

According to SIU's beat writer, Armon Fletcher will be out with a foot sprain.


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## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> According to SIU's beat writer, Armon Fletcher will be out with a foot sprain.



This is huge news.  Fletcher is their best all around player. We'll still have to deal with Rodriguez, Sean O'Brien and Leo Vincent, but them missing a key cog on both offense and defense will be a big advantage for us.  Fletcher is also their top threat from three, which we struggle with containing three point shooters.


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## Sycamore Proud

It seems like some things are going our way.  We may play a good game and still lose by 20.  Sometimes it seems that is the way of the Trees.


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## BankShot

BrokerZ said:


> This is huge news.  Fletcher is their best all around player. We'll still have to deal with Rodriguez, Sean O'Brien and Leo Vincent, but them missing a key cog on both offense and defense will be a big advantage for us.  Fletcher is also their top threat from three, which we struggle with containing three point shooters.



Fletcher also missed Sunday's Drake game...nothing new.

http://www.siusalukis.com/boxscore.aspx?id=7632&path=mbball

Tuesday Fletcher update:

http://thesouthern.com/sports/fletc...cle_9de928fc-5140-5a7b-b5e6-c6a2a96faf0d.html


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## BrokerZ

BankShot said:


> Fletcher also missed Sunday's Drake game...nothing new.



I think it is a big deal when their first two games have been against Bradley and Drake.  They beat Drake without him...but we're much, much better than Drake.


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## BankShot

BrokerZ said:


> I think it is a big deal when their first two games have been against Bradley and Drake.  They beat Drake without him...but we're much, much better than Drake.



Drake & ISU are very similar in that 1)if their 3 pt shooting is off and 2) they don't play "D", they're in for a rough night. Pretty much the story of most mid-majors. 

http://godrakebulldogs.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball

The distinction between upper & lower crust lies in INSIDE production. As far as being "much better" than Drake, only time will tell if this is true. Like a couple others on here, I wouldn't place a $2 bet on it.


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## BrokerZ

BankShot said:


> Drake & ISU are very similar in that 1)if their 3 pt shooting is off and 2) they don't play "D", they're in for a rough night. Pretty much the story of most mid-majors.
> 
> http://godrakebulldogs.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
> 
> The distinction between upper & lower crust lies in INSIDE production. As far as being "much better" than Drake, only time will tell if this is true. Like a couple others on here, I wouldn't place a $2 bet on it.



Bank, if you don't think we're any better than Drake then clearly you haven't watched a Drake game this year. They're terrible. I don't know how else to put it. If you thought we lacked athleticism just watch a 40 minute Drake basketball game.


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## BankShot

The schedule link I provided shows at least three (3) games where they played decent ball...like I said, they're much like us - a PERIMETER-focused squad w/ little offensive balance (among other issues).

BTW, any idea how DEPAUL's doing this year? #23? Drake lost 77-75 in Chicago. Lost by 2 to Fresno St. @ home. Outlasted Loyola 102-98 last week @ home. 

Gotta play 'em one at a time...


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## Bluethunder

BankShot said:


> BTW, any idea how DEPAUL's doing this year? #23? Drake lost 77-75 in Chicago. Lost by 2 to Fresno St. @ home. Outlasted Loyola 102-98 last week @ home.
> 
> Gotta play 'em one at a time...



The women's team is ranked #23 in the country, the men's team has a 7-8 record.


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## sycamorebacker

Drake must have played well against them.  Drake is ranked 274 and DePaul is 162.


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## BankShot

Bluethunder said:


> The women's team is ranked #23 in the country, the men's team has a 7-8 record.



Thanks for the heads up. DePaul's MEN last couple games, *68-65 L @ #1 Villanova* and a *79-73 L @ home to St. Johns* indicates that on an given night, they can give an opponent a serious migraine.

I'm just saying that Drake is NO DIFFERENT in the MVC.

http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/depa-m-baskbl-sched.html


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## Jason Svoboda

Fletcher is still listed as doubtful but apparently will go through pre-game to see if he can play.

We're 1.5 point dogs in Vegas.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

TreeTop said:


> It's the third game of the conference season and I have to wonder...
> 
> Will Lansing start the conference season 0-3 for the first time in his tenure?
> Will this game go into OT?
> Will this game come down to the last possession?
> Will either team win by double digits?
> Will it be just a straight up ugly game?
> Will our Sycamores turn a corner and find their mojo?
> Will Hinson deliver an instant-classic press conference?
> Will Scott score a career high (though I don't know what his career high is)?
> Will anyone on the Sycamores have a double-double?
> If so, who?
> If no double-double, which player will we be talking about after the game?
> How long is the bus ride from Terre Haute to Carbondale (I'm not gonna google it)?



More people should take time to answer these. It's kinda entertaining to do and read people's responses. You all can't be that busy...


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## Southgrad07

Will Lansing start the conference season 0-3 for the first time in his tenure?No

Will this game go into OT? god I hope not
Will this game come down to the last possession?
Last two minutes or so
Will either team win by double digits?NO. 6ish

Will it be just a straight up ugly game? Ugly as in poor shooting? Yeah probably...thinking a 38% to 37% rock fight
Will our Sycamores turn a corner and find their mojo? Mojo? Naw...brief sigh of relieve...yeah..Win the next two and we'll have mojo

Will Hinson deliver an instant-classic press conference? Dont think so...But he did do this after their last win at home against Drake...Sooo
Will Scott score a career high (though I don't know what his career high is)? No. 20
Will anyone on the Sycamores have a double-double? Yes..
If so, who? Emondre 10 and 10..
If no double-double, which player will we be talking about after the game? Emondre
How long is the bus ride from Terre Haute to Carbondale (I'm not gonna google it)? never made the trip.. on my list of things to do


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## meistro

Southgrad07 said:


> Will Lansing start the conference season 0-3 for the first time in his tenure?No
> 
> Will this game go into OT? god I hope not
> Will this game come down to the last possession?
> Last two minutes or so
> Will either team win by double digits?NO. 6ish
> 
> Will it be just a straight up ugly game? Ugly as in poor shooting? Yeah probably...thinking a 38% to 37% rock fight
> Will our Sycamores turn a corner and find their mojo? Mojo? Naw...brief sigh of relieve...yeah..Win the next two and we'll have mojo
> 
> Will Hinson deliver an instant-classic press conference? Dont think so...But he did do this after their last win at home against Drake...SoooView attachment 1305
> Will Scott score a career high (though I don't know what his career high is)? No. 20
> Will anyone on the Sycamores have a double-double? Yes..
> If so, who? Emondre 10 and 10..
> If no double-double, which player will we be talking about after the game? Emondre
> How long is the bus ride from Terre Haute to Carbondale (I'm not gonna google it)? never made the trip.. on my list of things to do



Bold prediction for Emondre, would love to see it. Something I've noticed with him is his ability to catch a pass, some times a bad one or in an awkward spot, and be able to gather himself and finish. Very athletic and definitely a big upside.


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## ISUfan21

Should be a good game tonight 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


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## meistro

TreeTop said:


> It's the third game of the conference season and I have to wonder...
> 
> Will Lansing start the conference season 0-3 for the first time in his tenure? No, but I'm not terribly confident in that.
> Will this game go into OT? No
> Will this game come down to the last possession? No
> Will either team win by double digits? No
> Will it be just a straight up ugly game? Probably
> Will our Sycamores turn a corner and find their mojo? Yes
> Will Hinson deliver an instant-classic press conference? Of course
> Will Scott score a career high (though I don't know what his career high is)? No, 22
> Will anyone on the Sycamores have a double-double? No, but Clemons will be very close
> If so, who?
> If no double-double, which player will we be talking about after the game? Clemons & Scott
> How long is the bus ride from Terre Haute to Carbondale (I'm not gonna google it)?


Go Sycamores!


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## Bluethunder

As Al Davis so eloquently put it,.....

"Just win baby!"

I don't care how, I don't care what the score is, just win!


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## Bluethunder

Well we cant ask for a better start!

TO SIU, 11-0 State!


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## Sycamore Proud

Come on Murph--turnover, blocked shot and foul in a few seconds.


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## Bluethunder

Sycamore Proud said:


> Come on Murph--turnover, blocked shot and foul in a few seconds.



All on the same play!


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## Bluethunder

What....the...hell....was....that.....Franklin?


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## LoudNProud

Bluethunder said:


> What....the...hell....was....that.....Franklin?



Awful.

But had that shot gone in we all would have been referencing Odum. So...it could have been really good?


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## Bluethunder

Don't see that too often, an intentional foul called away from the ball.


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## Jason Svoboda

Just got home from the gym into this noise. Whenever you see Lansing walking away scratching his head... lol


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## Jason Svoboda

Have never seen a double flagrant foul where both players that committed the fouls get a pair of FTs each. See something new every time in the Valley. LOL


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## Bluethunder

Pretty hard to get a defensive rebound when the home team can just go right over your back and get the foul called.  SMH


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## Coach

Sycamores making an All-American again - OBRIEN.......starting to play down to the level of SIU. Couldn't stand early prosperity.


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## LoudNProud

NB reminding us why he's a PF and not a Center. Every time he attacks the rim from the perimeter or just inside the arc, he looks great. He can pull up and shoot the 3 certainly, but he's most effective when he plays aggressively.


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## Jason Svoboda

That was a major league move there from Scott.


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## Coach

Butler just knocked off unbeaten #1 Villanova.  Where is that Sycamore team that beat Butler?


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## meistro

Sycamore Proud said:


> Come on Murph--turnover, blocked shot and foul in a few seconds.



Don't know why he was even in there. I guess Rickman was really tired after 2 blocked shots in 3 minutes, wth


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## skdent1414

We have said it a million times but these substitution patterns will make you puke. No rhyme or reason. Rickman starts has a couple blocks, we run up the score early. Then Murphy comes in (rickman needed a blow) and he shits the bed on three straight possessions. We call timeout and who comes in out of the timeout???....Murphy. Another example, Scott and MVS hitting shots early and sit in lieu of Franklin, Bronson and Paige for extended period.


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## meistro

Bluethunder said:


> What....the...hell....was....that.....Franklin?



How he continues to get playing time is beyond me. One of my least favorite Sycamores of all time.


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## meistro

skdent1414 said:


> We have said it a million times but these substitution patterns will make you puke. No rhyme or reason. Rickman starts has a couple blocks, we run up the score early. Then Murphy comes in (rickman needed a blow) and he shits the bed on three straight possessions. We call timeout and who comes in out of the timeout???....Murphy. Another example, Scott and MVS hitting shots early and sit in lieu of Franklin, Bronson and page for extended period.



Thank you, the substitution patterns have no rhyme or reason. We could have been up by 20 if not for some terrible shot selection and numerous bricks by our bigs inside.


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## BrokerZ

Barry Hinson looks like he's going to have a heart attack by halftime.


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## Bluethunder

It wouldnt be a Valley game if the officiating didn't suck.  This crew more than living up to the league's reputation for quality officiating.


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## Southgrad07

Just listening  but should be up by 10+ by the sound of it.. wtf is franklin doing playing the last 3-4 mins of the half. Cannot tell me demonte or knight couldnt do better. At least with paige i could  see him being some great practice guy and team motivator...thus becoming one of the coaches trusted guys..not seeing what franklin has done to deserve any pt


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## BrokerZ

Pretty good first half all things considered. We won't shoot it that well in the second half so we better pick it up elsewhere.


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## Bluethunder

If Lansing shortens the bench in the second half, we win.  

If he chooses to keep giving extended minutes to multiple players, we lose.


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## meistro

Southgrad07 said:


> Just listening  but should be up by 10+ by the sound of it.. wtf is franklin doing playing the last 3-4 mins of the half. Cannot tell me demonte or knight couldnt do better. At least with paige i could  see him being some great practice guy and team motivator...thus becoming one of the coaches trusted guys..not seeing what franklin has done to deserve any pt



Makes no sense at all. He must really show them something in practice because he has a terrible basketball IQ and continues to prove it. Paige has done a nice job on defense tonight. And the last play, I still don't understand why Clemons is the guy we have hold the ball and take it to the basket at the end.


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## Sycamore Proud

Out rebounded again


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## LoudNProud

meistro said:


> Makes no sense at all. He must really show them something in practice because he has a terrible basketball IQ and continues to prove it. Paige has done a nice job on defense tonight. And the last play, I still don't understand why Clemons is the guy we have hold the ball and take it to the basket at the end.



Not sure why Clemons, but it shouldn't be Scott. Love the guy, but he's beefed it on every last second play we've given him. He drives in, tries to circus shot it or dish and gets hammered. Looks like we tried it with Clemons because Scott had done it so many times. Probably tried to throw them for a loop and he just lost the handle this time. I'd rather Clemons be in control honestly.


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## BrokerZ

LoudNProud said:


> Not sure why Clemons, but it shouldn't be Scott. Love the guy, but he's beefed it on every last second play we've given him. He drives in, tries to circus shot it or dish and gets hammered. Looks like we tried it with Clemons because Scott had done it so many times. Probably tried to throw them for a loop and he just lost the handle this time. I'd rather Clemons be in control honestly.



You might want to go back and rewatch the Utah State game. Scott seemed to do alright with the ball in his hands at the end of that game. Or game one against NIU to force overtime. I could keep going...


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Rickman airball from 2 feet. What in the world dude?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Then an and 1 foul. Go sit down


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Paige can sit down too.


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## Jason Svoboda

If I never had to watch Paige or MVS I'd be perfectly fine with that.


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## BrokerZ

Who the hell packed Greg Lansing's bag for this trip? Black shoes + olive pants + light blue shirt + grey blazer?


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## Southgrad07

Sounds  like our rebounding issues are behind us..


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## Jason Svoboda

Southgrad07 said:


> Sounds  like our rebounding issues are behind us..


LMAO.


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## BrokerZ

Southgrad07 said:


> Sounds  like our rebounding issues are behind us..



Mission Accomplished


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## Coach

I don't have enough fingers & toes to count the number of times an SIU "one-man Gang" has kicked the Sycamore's a$$. The 2nd half belonging to Barry & Obrien.


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## Jason Svoboda

Would be nice if we didn't run down the clock to under 5 and then throw up a BS shot every time down the floor. This team has regressed BIG TIME from early in the year. They just look out of sync more often than not.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

How is that a foul on Scott. This game is maddening


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## meistro

The wheels on the bus are falling off, falling off, falling off!


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## meistro

Good to see Franklin earned more playing time with his first half performance.


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## Jason Svoboda

Mass subs! Yeah!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

meistro said:


> The wheels on the bus are falling off, falling off, falling off!



Oh settle down a little bit now. Come on. College hoops on the road you didn't expect SIU to make a run on this team?? Please


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## Jason Svoboda

I'm so sick of teams just getting OR after fucking OR on us. So disheartening.


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## Jason Svoboda

Gotta dunk that BK.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Kessinger is brutal especially if you compare it to how overrated he was coming into this season. Make a layup dude.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Down 3 and Kessinger misses a wideopen layup and now we find ourselves down 6 and on the ropes. Unbelievable


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## ISUCC

still within 2, but man we look awful, would be a BAD loss if we lose this game, SIU is AWFUL, come on guys!


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## ISUCC

Iowa State is up 2 on #2 Baylor, so the #1 and #2 teams in the nation may go down tonight to teams we beat and should have beaten

meanwhile, we tie it up, then go down 2


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## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> still within 2, but man we look awful, would be a BAD loss if we lose this game, SIU is AWFUL, come on guys!


So are we if we're being completely honest with ourselves. We can't rebound, we can't run an efficient offense, we're marginal shooters and our guys look like they wear concrete shoes on defense.


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## Coach

FFFFFFFFF'n ridiculous.  Good Ole Barry kicking the Sycamores around like a soccer ball again.  Sycamores trying to copycat the Hoosiers. ISU has three times the talent on the floor. They just play like a prick-teasing chick and don't put out.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> So are we if we're being completely honest with ourselves. We can't rebound, we can't run an efficient offense, we're marginal shooters and our guys look like they wear concrete shoes on defense.



Ha. This.


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## Southgrad07

Hello Thursday no matter what happens  here. This  siu  team is trash


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## ISUCC

Jason Svoboda said:


> So are we if we're being completely honest with ourselves. We can't rebound, we can't run an efficient offense, we're marginal shooters and our guys look like they wear concrete shoes on defense.



I'm beginning to agree with everyone else, we are awful too, I just thought after that Florida series of games, and the Butler win, that we'd be ok in MVC play. Apparently that won't be the case, we're now down SEVEN to a dreadfully bad SIU team. So I'd say we're gonna be playing on Thursday in St Louis.


----------



## ISUCC

#2 Baylor did beat Iowa State tonight by 2


----------



## meistro

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Oh settle down a little bit now. Come on. College hoops on the road you didn't expect SIU to make a run on this team?? Please



I'm not surprised, I'm the one who after the Shocker loss predicted an 0-3 or 0-4 start. Just frustrating


----------



## meistro

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Kessinger is brutal especially if you compare it to how overrated he was coming into this season. Make a layup dude.



He's lost all confidence offensively but he has potential, he just needs to slow down.


----------



## Southgrad07

Kinda like scott at the line. This  is becoming a thing folks. Hes cost us at least 2 and as much as 4 points here in the last couple trips


----------



## ISUCC

Overtime, why not.....LOL


----------



## BrokerZ

ISUCC said:


> Overtime, why not.....LOL



At least we have experience...


----------



## meistro

We may not be very good, but one thing you can't say is that we give up easily. Fought back from 6 and 7 down. We've done similar things in other games. Rickman may be emerging as a good rim protector.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

At end of regulation were trail 44-31 on rebounds.


----------



## Southgrad07

Really hope we get this one, but for us to make as many 3pts  as we did and to still get pounding the exact same way as we have all yr (rebounding and fouling)  is so disheartening. Cannot imagine it.. even as a small time  middle school/high school competitor  i cannot fathom not taking  it to heart and saying be damned if your going  to keep beating us this one way.


----------



## BrokerZ

Serious question: what's the NCAA record for most OT games in a season?  Just feels like we may be approaching it.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

meistro said:


> He's lost all confidence offensively but he has potential, he just needs to slow down.


This is where I've questioning post coaching for years. None of our guys finishes strong around the rim. Time and time again these guys try finesse moves around the rim. If that isn't coaching, coaches should be beating it out of them.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Great cut by Paige and good find by Rickman. That was good recognition from Paige as his defender just left him.


----------



## Southgrad07

Rickman  far from  a finished  product but give  that dude the keys to the car when it comes to the center spot.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Rickman has been huge. Was critical earlier in the half - he's missed some easy ones but he has protected the rim fairly well, rebounded, passed (assist to Paige) and got a few easy buckets. Good for him!!


----------



## BrokerZ

Southgrad07 said:


> Rickman  far from  a finished  product but give  that dude the keys to the car when it comes to the center spot.



Why can we all see it but not the coaches?!?!?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BrokerZ said:


> Why can we all see it but not the coaches?!?!?



Relax. It's starting to happen. They are starting him - sometimes it takes some time. Tonight he's earning his stripes playing in clutch minutes. I think they see it or are starting to see it. The answer to your question is what South already answered- he's far from a finished product.


----------



## meistro

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Rickman has been huge. Was critical earlier in the half - he's missed some easy ones but he has protected the rim fairly well, rebounded, passed (assist to Paige) and got a few easy buckets. Good for him!!



Definitely his best game yet. Keep improving big guy.


----------



## meistro

Right there he should have kicked it out. Growing pains.


----------



## ISUCC

another OT loss, I could accept the loss at MSU the other day, this however, is unacceptable. Oh well, it is who we are this season.


----------



## ISUCC

76-71, we're toast

MVS hits a 3, 76-74, timeout


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I'm not going to get all worked up over this. The most frustrating thing I've seen is that we beat a team with 1 loss and that just beat the #1 team in the country today. 

This is why you never really should pay attention to who beats who during the season because it doesn't translate.


----------



## ISUCC

78-74 after FT's


----------



## Southgrad07

O brien has 28 and 14.....seriously, look what opposing pf's have done against us in  3 games and  youll see why we're in this position.. what a joke


----------



## ISUCC

80-74, it's over, our season is sinking faster than the titanic. I really thought we couldn't possibly lose to this bad SIU team, good lord


----------



## ISUCC

out rebounded 50-36

and again, how in the hell did we beat Butler??


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> 80-74, it's over, our season is sinking faster than the titanic. I really thought we couldn't possibly lose to this bad SIU team, good lord



Why would you think we couldn't lose to them? It's on the road, we're not playing well and quite frankly not very good.


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> out rebounded 50-36
> 
> and again, how in the hell did we beat Butler??



I think they were one of the few teams we outrebounded.


----------



## meistro

Southgrad07 said:


> O brien has 28 and 14.....seriously, look what opposing pf's have done against us in  3 games and  youll see why we're in this position.. what a joke



Like others have said, we have a knack for making stars out of average players.


----------



## BlueSycamore

Come on now say it again. Barry Hinson is a terrible coach and Greg Lansing is the greatest.  Game never should have been this close and never have even gone to an overtime.  Oh yeah, Barry's best player didn't play.


----------



## BankShot

Final #'s:

http://www.sidearmstats.com/siu/mbball/


----------



## ISUCC

meistro said:


> Why would you think we couldn't lose to them? It's on the road, we're not playing well and quite frankly not very good.



I know, I should have known better, just thought we'd turn it around tonight, but I've lost all faith, gonna be a long season. 

Our #FebruaryCollapse has started an entire MONTH early! Ugh!


----------



## Bluethunder

I know i will probably get ridiculed for this statement, not that I care, but still don't believe we will be a Thursday team.

I've seen a lot better Sycamore teams go to Carbondale and lose worse than this.  Yes we took a very winnable game and blew it, but a road loss is never the worst thing.

Still think we can finish higher than Drake, Evansville, Bradley for sure.  And if we can start winning at home, get a few on the road, we could finish ahead of UNI, SIU or loyola (not all three, just need to finish ahead of one.

We are 0-3, but only one can be called a bad loss (tonights) and we werent even favored to win tonight, so it can't be called that bad of a loss.


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I'm not going to get all worked up over this. The most frustrating thing I've seen is that we beat a team with 1 loss and that just beat the #1 team in the country today.
> 
> This is why you never really should pay attention to who beats who during the season because it doesn't translate.



Naw not even close to the most frustrating  thing for me. We hit shots at home against a team that didnt have a true 4 to really take advantage of us...im much more concerned about losing this many close ones...Its more than "bad luck"..cant wait to see what McIntosh  does to us on Saturday at the 4 position. uphill battle to stay  out of Thursday now


----------



## BallyPie

Hinson's use of the zone very effective..........switching defenses had us off balance in the 2nd half.......really great coaching.....of course, our coaches never do anything different on defense.....


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

This game wasn't about Barry Hinson vs. Lansing IMO. That's not a free pass for Lansing. Hinson's teams have done NOTHING and any comparison at this point is sour grapes.


----------



## BankShot

ISUCC said:


> out rebounded 50-36
> 
> and again, how in the hell did we beat Butler??



Ya, and look where Butler's headed NOW...knocked off undefeated #1 Villanova: 

http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...f-the-season-as-no-18-butler-upsets-wildcats/


----------



## meistro

Bluethunder said:


> I know i will probably get ridiculed for this statement, not that I care, but still don't believe we will be a Thursday team.
> 
> I've seen a lot better Sycamore teams go to Carbondale and lose worse than this.  Yes we took a very winnable game and blew it, but a road loss is never the worst thing.
> 
> Still think we can finish higher than Drake, Evansville, Bradley for sure.  And if we can start winning at home, get a few on the road, we could finish ahead of UNI, SIU or loyola (not all three, just need to finish ahead of one.
> 
> We are 0-3, but only one can be called a bad loss (tonights) and we werent even favored to win tonight, so it can't be called that bad of a loss.



The problem is with every loss, guys start pressing and missing ft's and layups, etc. And now we have Ilsu up next then back on the road at Drake. And if you don't think we can lose at Drake, you haven't been an ISU fan long enough.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> Naw not even close to the most frustrating  thing for me. We hit shots at home against a team that didnt have a true 4 to really take advantage of us...im much more concerned about losing this many close ones...Its more than "bad luck"..cant wait to see what McIntosh  does to us on Saturday at the 4 position. uphill battle to stay  out of Thursday now



I may need a break. I think I might just continently find something else to do.


----------



## eagletree

*Season done- fire Lansing and start over*

I have 1500 dollars worth of season tickets. What a joke and waste of money! This season is over and I will NOT buy season tickets next year. Give a refund, please. Fire Lansing and start over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

eagletree said:


> I have 1500 dollars worth of season tickets. What a joke and waste of money! This season is over and I will NOT buy season tickets next year. Give a refund, please. Fire Lansing and start over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Oh boy here we go. Might be time for me to sign off here for a week or so also. Good grief.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

meistro said:


> The problem is with every loss, guys start pressing and missing ft's and layups, etc. And now we have Ilsu up next then back on the road at Drake. And if you don't think we can lose at Drake, you haven't been an ISU fan long enough.



Composure is something we lack. Only guy that really has any is Clemons and he isn't really a huge individual threat with the ball.


----------



## meistro

BallyPie said:


> Hinson's use of the zone very effective..........switching defenses had us off balance in the 2nd half.......really great coaching.....of course, our coaches never do anything different on defense.....



We made some adjustments and fought back. The game was lost in the first half when instead of stretching a 12 pt. lead we went to jacking up crazy shots. It's hard to blame Lansing because I see his frustration on the sidelines when they do something stupid. But then again, he recruited them and we're halfway through the season and still the same mistakes. Beyond frustrating.


----------



## Gotta Hav

BrokerZ said:


> We'll win this game. SIU is not good. If we can hang with MSU on the road like we did we should have the confidence and ability to take this one on the road.
> 
> Oh, and Barry Hinson is a terrible coach.  Just wanted to get that out now before the Hinson love fest begins.



If any Sycamore basketball fan actually thought we were going to win this game, that's just not living in reality....and Scott...oh how he's a big time player.  He may be, but he's also 
a big time CHOKE artist.  Clank on the front end of two 1 and 1's FT's and then TRAVELS!!!    And HINSON has LANSING's number....AGAIN.


----------



## Bluethunder

meistro said:


> The problem is with every loss, guys start pressing and missing ft's and layups, etc. And now we have Ilsu up next then back on the road at Drake. And if you don't think we can lose at Drake, you haven't been an ISU fan long enough.



Not saying it Can't happen, just sayong I don't believe it will.

If (and I realize it is a big IF) we come out and play well and win Saturday, then we have plenty of time to right the ship.

Now we are going to see how good of a coach Lansing is.  If he can keep the team focused and together, he will earn his money.  If the team starts to mail it in and the wheels come completely off, he and Clinks may need to have a long discussion in the off season.


----------



## BallyPie

Bluethunder said:


> I know i will probably get ridiculed for this statement, not that I care, but still don't believe we will be a Thursday team.
> 
> I've seen a lot better Sycamore teams go to Carbondale and lose worse than this.  Yes we took a very winnable game and blew it, but a road loss is never the worst thing.
> 
> Still think we can finish higher than Drake, Evansville, Bradley for sure.  And if we can start winning at home, get a few on the road, we could finish ahead of UNI, SIU or loyola (not all three, just need to finish ahead of one.
> 
> We are 0-3, but only one can be called a bad loss (tonights) and we werent even favored to win tonight, so it can't be called that bad of a loss.



Agree.....we won't be a play-in team......we're really not playing that bad......but we must take care of things at home....starting with Ill State.....

I do think Lansing finally figured out tonight that Rickman gives us more out there then Murphy.....something most on this board has been saying the whole time......if he'd put on another 20 pounds, he could be a beast inside next year.......


----------



## meistro

Gotta Hav said:


> If any Sycamore basketball fan actually thought we were going to win this game, that's just not living in reality....and Scott...oh how he's a big time player.  He may be, but he's also
> a big time CHOKE artist.  Clank on the front end of two 1 and 1's FT's and then TRAVELS!!!    And HINSON has LANSING's number....AGAIN.



I don't think he's a choke artist. I think he's feeling the pressure of losing and trying to do too much but not a choke artist.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

You can call Scott a choke artist or whatever all you want and he deserves his fair share of blame for missing those freethrows and the travel down 3. Buttttt Rickman and Kessinger continue to miss wide open layup/dunks and those are just as costly. The pressure on Scott to be perfect at least in his own head is greater than ever.


----------



## meistro

eagletree said:


> I have 1500 dollars worth of season tickets. What a joke and waste of money! This season is over and I will NOT buy season tickets next year. Give a refund, please. Fire Lansing and start over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



That's not gonna happen, so might as well not bring it up.


----------



## BallyPie

meistro said:


> We made some adjustments and fought back. The game was lost in the first half when instead of stretching a 12 pt. lead we went to jacking up crazy shots. It's hard to blame Lansing because I see his frustration on the sidelines when they do something stupid. But then again, he recruited them and we're halfway through the season and still the same mistakes. Beyond frustrating.



well...we certainly didn't do anything different on O'Brien......he owned us....nobody could guard him one on one........


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I may need a break. I think I might just continently find something else to do.



So will many others for other reasons unfortunately  lol..this is going to turn into  a dumpster fire quickly  and some comments will be way over the top.. that being said, i think some harsh criticism  is justified. Should not of lost to that team in the manner we did...


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Composure is something we lack. Only guy that really has any is Clemons and he isn't really a huge individual threat with the ball.



Great point


----------



## Bluethunder

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You can call Scott a choke artist or whatever all you want and he deserves his fair share of blame for missing those freethrows and the travel down 3. Buttttt Rickman and Kessinger continue to miss wide open layup/dunks and those are just as costly. The pressure on Scott to be perfect at least in his own head is greater than ever.



Agree.  Plenty of blame to go around tonight.  If you want to give some to Scott, go ahead everyone, but you better save a lot for others on the team too, because they earned it.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> So will many others for other reasons unfortunately  lol..this is going to turn into  a dumpster fire quickly  and some comments will be way over the top.. that being said, i think some harsh criticism  is justified. Should not of lost to that team in the manner we did...



Without a doubt it's justified. However hard to have a real conversation with people who want someone fired after 3 conference games 2 of which were on the road and went to OT.


----------



## meistro

BallyPie said:


> well...we certainly didn't do anything different on O'Brien......he owned us....nobody could guard him one on one........



I meant we made adjustments against their zone. No we couldn't guard O'brien.


----------



## BallyPie

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You can call Scott a choke artist or whatever all you want and he deserves his fair share of blame for missing those freethrows and the travel down 3. Buttttt Rickman and Kessinger continue to miss wide open layup/dunks and those are just as costly. The pressure on Scott to be perfect at least in his own head is greater than ever.



Kessinger....I think the game hasn't slowed down enough for him yet.....he rushed a few shots down low.........Rickman...a little of the same.......however,  I think they both will improve as the conference season progresses........we just need to get them both more minutes.......


----------



## BankShot

SIU people thought Sean Lloyd "D" on Scott was superb. Thoughts? Scored only 5 pts. in 2nd half.


----------



## meistro

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Composure is something we lack. Only guy that really has any is Clemons and he isn't really a huge individual threat with the ball.



You're right about Clemons. Although I think he makes his share of mistakes but he more than makes up for it with everything else he does.


----------



## meistro

BankShot said:


> SIU people thought Sean Lloyd "D" on Scott was superb. Thoughts?



I thought they did a very good job on him and Scott didn't force as many bad shots as in the past.


----------



## Bluethunder

BankShot said:


> SIU people thought Sean Lloyd "D" on Scott was superb. Thoughts?



I will let you know after we play SIU in Terre Haute.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

When do we play Bradley or Drake?


----------



## BallyPie

meistro said:


> You're right about Clemons. Although I think he makes his share of mistakes but he more than makes up for it with everything else he does.



Agree....if Clemons wasn't out there...sorry to say......who's going to rebound the basketball.??


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BallyPie said:


> Agree....if Clemons wasn't out there...sorry to say......who's going to rebound the basketball.??


History has shown the answer is our opponent at a very high clip.


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreinTexas said:


> When do we play Bradley or Drake?



Bradley kicked sand in the Aces face tonight in E-ville!


----------



## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> History has shown the answer is our opponent at a very high clip.



And my question is.......who do we have coming in next year to help rebounding??


----------



## Jason Svoboda

meistro said:


> He's lost all confidence offensively but he has potential, he just needs to slow down.


I also believe he is playing out of position. He is a 4 and we're forcing him to play the 5. He should have been given a shot to guard 33 tonight. Niles and MVS may score 20 a game but they give up 30 and 15 like clockwork.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> And my question is.......who do we have coming in next year to help rebounding??


:lol:


----------



## meistro

eagletree said:


> I have 1500 dollars worth of season tickets. What a joke and waste of money! This season is over and I will NOT buy season tickets next year. Give a refund, please. Fire Lansing and start over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Lansing is respected by his coaching and ISU peers for running a clean program and doing fairly well with the budget he has. If we continue this downhill spiral and have a losing season, I think it would be fair for the AD to ask him to reevaluate his assistants. We don't have the money to fire Lansing so I can't see that happening.


----------



## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> :lol:



Just what I thought lol!!


----------



## BankShot

pbutler218 said:


> And my question is.......who do we have coming in next year to help rebounding??



Don't need any...we're building "experience" this season and will have a powerful returning front line in '17-18.


----------



## BankShot

meistro said:


> Lansing is respected by his coaching and ISU peers for running a clean program and doing fairly well with the budget he has. If we continue this downhill spiral and have a losing season, I think it would be fair for the AD to ask him to reevaluate his assistants. We don't have the money to fire Lansing so I can't see that happening.



There's ways to "force" resignation, thus allowing a more reasonable continuation of his coaching career somewhere else. But we're still a ways from that at this point in the season. An IL St. "upset" would be a real booster shot for our guys.


----------



## meistro

BankShot said:


> There's ways to "force" resignation, thus allowing a more reasonable continuation of his coaching career somewhere else. But we're still a ways from that at this point in the season. An IL St. "upset" would be a real booster shot for our guys.



Coaching and recruiting at this level just isn't easy. You have a limited number of players you realistically have a chance to get. And, of those players, if you're running a clean program you may not want a lot of them. Then throw in the lack of atmosphere and support in our program, it's no wonder we're having trouble getting better players. Not to mention our limited budget. It's not easy but we have to do better and our coaches know that.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

All those years playing in the CBI have paid off!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreinTexas said:


> All those years playing in the CBI have paid off!



Ha. And not because the CBI or any of those bull shit tournaments do anything for the future of the program. Those things were a farce and anyone bragging about playing in them by suggesting we were playing in the "postseason" should reevaluate.


----------



## niklz62

If it werent for the stupid overtime rule we'd be 4-6-5


----------



## 4Q_iu

niklz62 said:


> If it werent for the stupid overtime rule we'd be 4-6-5



:laugh:
Absolutely!   We need to start a petition to eliminate that damn OT rule


----------



## Coach

BankShot said:


> There's ways to "force" resignation, thus allowing a more reasonable continuation of his coaching career somewhere else. But we're still a ways from that at this point in the season. An IL St. "upset" would be a real booster shot for our guys.



Will not be at all surprised to see the Sycamores win a couple they shouldn't.......probably at Wichita & one other but on a game by game basis could not beat Rose-Hulman on a regular basis.  Illinois State at home would not qualify as an upset. How many years in a row has Illinois State not won in Terre Haute....a bunch and with some pretty good teams.


----------



## Coach

meistro said:


> He's lost all confidence offensively but he has potential, he just needs to slow down.



Hope he brings that "potential" out of the closet soon?  "Potential means you haven't done it yet"


----------



## BankShot

Coach said:


> Hope he brings that "potential" out of the closet soon?  "Potential means you haven't done it yet"



He's probably second guessing his decision to come to ISU and play under Lansing @ this point. Wouldn't be surprised to see him transfer into a "fresh" program with an offense that COMPLIMENTS his type game. Of course, such a decision wouldn't be forthcoming until clarity surfaces re: Lansing's continued status @ ISU and if necessary, the type of replacement Clink brings in.


----------



## Bluethunder

Coach said:


> but on a game by game basis could not beat Rose-Hulman on a regular basis.  Illinois State at home would not qualify as an upset.



Really?  You don't think we could beat a Div III team on a regular basis?  

I get that no one is happy with the last few weeks of the season, but let's all try to stay grounded in reality a little bit here.

I do agree with you about not counting Ill State as an upset if we win though.


----------



## Southgrad07

Dropping 5 out of 6 will do this to a fanbase. Some of the comments are rational and others are over the top. Not surprising in the least..Seen it here for years and on literally every other board when things go poorly. This is a pretty tame group compared to some other boards.


----------



## Southgrad07

Opposing starting PF's in the last 6 games against us.....

130 points= 21.7 points a game
64 rebs=10.7 a game


This is why we are losing games folks.


----------



## BrokerZ

Southgrad07 said:


> Opposing starting PF's in the last 6 games against us.....
> 
> 130 points= 21.7 points a game
> 64 rebs=10.7 a game
> 
> 
> This is why we are losing games folks.



Let's go ahead and shut the thread down - there's nothing else to debate.  This loss has nothing to do with Lansing or Barry Hinson or Brenton Scott.  THIS..THIS is all you need to look at.  Our "experienced" frontcourt is getting completely OWNED by opposing forwards.  At first I thought it was just the super-athletic guys like Jalen Moore from Utah State, but it's now any PF.  Sean O'Brien is a decent player, don't get me wrong, but he single-handedly beat us last night which is completely unacceptable.  

If this trend continues, Illinois State is going to DESTROY us.  Hawkins and McIntosh will feast all day on the boards.  Both are averaging 7 boards a game.  Better up that to an expected 11-12 a piece for them in Terre Haute.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BrokerZ said:


> Let's go ahead and shut the thread down - there's nothing else to debate.  This loss has nothing to do with Lansing or Barry Hinson or Brenton Scott.  THIS..THIS is all you need to look at.  Our "experienced" frontcourt is getting completely OWNED by opposing forwards.  At first I thought it was just the super-athletic guys like Jalen Moore from Utah State, but it's now any PF.  Sean O'Brien is a decent player, don't get me wrong, but he single-handedly beat us last night which is completely unacceptable.
> 
> If this trend continues, Illinois State is going to DESTROY us.  Hawkins and McIntosh will feast all day on the boards.  Both are averaging 7 boards a game.  Better up that to an expected 11-12 a piece for them in Terre Haute.



Let's not shut it down. Usually agree with you but would rather not see it shut down. Everything else you said was on point. Some people need to get shit out of their system and this is a good place for them to do it. Threads like this don't happen when your program wins all the time - we have one or two of these threads a season. The sun came up this morning (well behind the clouds but it came up) and everything's gonna be alright.


----------



## BankShot

Southgrad07 said:


> Opposing starting PF's in the last 6 games against us.....
> 
> 130 points= 21.7 points a game
> 64 rebs=10.7 a game
> 
> 
> This is why we are losing games folks.



Shooting UNDER 70% @ the FT line is another reason. How many 1 & 1's have we missed in the heat of battle?


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> . The sun came up this morning (well behind the clouds but it came up) and everything's gonna be alright.



LOL - You must've had those new Polaroid "Urim and Thummim"-model sunglasses on. 'Backer needs to check his inventory to if a pair's missing!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BankShot said:


> LOL - You must've had those new Polaroid "Urim and Thummim"-model sunglasses on. 'Backer needs to check his inventory to if a pair's missing!



I didn't say Indiana State was going to finish top 3 in the Valley and I didn't even say they were going to win again. ISU hoops is just not the here all end all for me - life goes on.


----------



## Coach

Bluethunder said:


> Really?  You don't think we could beat a Div III team on a regular basis?
> 
> I get that no one is happy with the last few weeks of the season, but let's all try to stay grounded in reality a little bit here.
> 
> I do agree with you about not counting Ill State as an upset if we win though.



Maybe a slight sarcasm but you know the Sycamores tendency to play down to the level of the opposition ?


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I didn't say Indiana State was going to finish top 3 in the Valley and I didn't even say they were going to win again. ISU hoops is just not the here all end all for me - life goes on.



I was referencing your ability to "see thru the clouds." I knew that you had "special powers" @ HC while working the players, coaches & officials, but this opens up a whole new dimension.:takeoff:


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## BrokerZ

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Let's not shut it down. Usually agree with you but would rather not see it shut down.



I said that only to drive home the emphasis of that stat.  Obviously I did not literally mean to shut the thread down.  That wouldn't be any fun.

It's also rather overcast here in Dallas.  I haven't seen the sun today.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

BrokerZ said:


> I said that only to drive home the emphasis of that stat.  Obviously I did not literally mean to shut the thread down.  That wouldn't be any fun.
> 
> It's also rather overcast here in Dallas.  I haven't seen the sun today.



Fair enough - you had overcast skys we had snow and 5 degrees.


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