# Around The Valley 2018-2019



## Jason Svoboda

Scores and what not.


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## Jason Svoboda

Anyone see the scores from last night? 

SIU did a decent job with Kentucky - http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083123
Furman beat Loyola in Chicago - http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401088888


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## Gotta Hav

Jason Svoboda said:


> Anyone see the scores from last night?
> 
> SIU did a decent job with Kentucky - http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083123
> Furman beat Loyola in Chicago - http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401088888



Sure did.

Watched all of the SIU game and half of the Loyola game.  Kentucky with all of their All American McDonald's players stepped on the gas at the end, to pull away.  The final score does NOT reveal the competitiveness of this game.   If SIU stays healthy....they're going to have a great season.  Kevion Pippen looked like he actually belonged on the Kentucky team.  

Even though the Sportwriters said Furman STUNS Loyola, this was NOT an upset.  Furman won 23 games last year and has key parts of that team back.   Their workhorse inside is Matt Rafferty.  This kid has a head harder than a brick and plays like Robbie Hummel did at Purdue.  Just when you think he can't give anymore thing to win, he does. Our Devin Thomas and others on our team could learn or thing or two by playing like Rafferty or a Hummel.   Also, I'm sure there are some bigger schools that are kicking their own butts for not getting Clay Mounce on Furman's team.

Dude rocked a one-handed slam dunk to win the game for Furman.  Made #2 on Sports Center.


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## skdent1414

Salukis had an opportunity against a top 25 team at home against Buffalo tonight. Looks like they got thumped in the second half.


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## ISUCC

for those watching ESPN3, Illinois State is on the verge of losing to Chicago State! At home no less, they're down 6 with under 4 to go, sigh

redbirds storm back and win by 4

meanwhile Drake never got off the bus in a 29 point loss at Colorado


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## SycamoreStateofMind

MVC is down... Oh well. 1 bid league either way - deal with it.


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## Sycamorefan96

ISUCC said:


> for those watching ESPN3, Illinois State is on the verge of losing to Chicago State! At home no less, they're down 6 with under 4 to go, sigh
> 
> redbirds storm back and win by 4
> 
> meanwhile Drake never got off the bus in a 29 point loss at Colorado



Sigh??? I was hoping Chicago State would win. 

I'm actually okay with the MVC being down. Maybe we can stay out of Thursday and make a run in St Louis.


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## Sycamorefan96

The conference is looking real tough this season so far. Every time I look at the scores a Valley school is losing. According to the RPI rankings the MVC is currently ranked as the 23rd best conference. Conference USA is currently the best mid major league (5th). They are currently ahead of the Pac 12 and the Big 12.

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

Honestly if the MVC can pick things back up I wouldn't mind seeing us do a challenge series with the CUSA, since the MWC challenge is going to end.


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## Westbadenboy

I thought everyone was saying the MVC was on the upswing and would be very good this year …………..? ? ?


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## BrokerZ

After a bad loss to UIC, Bradley has bounced back nicely in the Cancun Challenge with wins over SMU and Penn State. At least one team is doing well in the non-con.


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## ISUCC

Anyone interested in going to watch Bradley play at IUPUI weds. night? 7pm at the state fairgrounds on 38th street.


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## TreeTop

The MWC/MVC Challenge is underway starting tonight!  Might was well get excited about it, since it's the end of the series.

No doubt THE marquee match-up is Loyola vs #6 Nevada on ESPNEWS.  And Elgin actually gets what he envisioned oh so many years ago...media exposure in the Chicago market for The Valley.  Hopefully it's not fleeting.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-loyola-nevada-rematch-20181127-story.html

The other two games, SIU at Colorado State and Boise State at Drake.


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## ISUCC

it's MVC-MWC Challenge week, 3 games tonight, don't know that we'll win any tonight??


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Loyola in the process of getting run out of the gym at home.


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## ISUCC

well, despite the fact Loyola is getting blown out of their own gym it's a great atmosphere in there, kudos for their fans and students for stepping up!


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## ISUCC

Nevada had no trouble at Loyola, winning by 14, Nevada is really good. 

Drake about to beat Boise State

SIU up on Colorado State at the half

looks like SIU will defeat Colorado State, so the MVC starts off 2-1, better than expected


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## ISUCC

7 games on tap tonight in the MVC. Including 5 games in the MVC-MWC challenge. Non challenge games are BYU at Illinois State, and Bradley here at IUPUI. MVC is up 2-1 in the challenge

Be nice to go 7-0, but that's unlikely. Need to start winning games against the good teams we're all playing


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## ISUCC

At the Bradley - IUPUI game, we shouldn't complain about attendance, there are literally less than 300 people here


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## ISUCC

If Bradley is gonna play like this in the MVC I like our chances. IUPUI up 6 at half


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## Gotta Hav

It looks like Bradley is going to lose to IUPUI...and not a in pretty way.  Bradley has THREE technical fouls!


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## ISUCC

I think the Braves actually had 4 technicals, regardless, if a team ever wanted a good reason to complain about refs, Bradley had every right to complain tonight, those refs were awful!


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## ISUCC

MVC is 5-3 in the challenge now, ISU, Valpo, and Evansville won last night, UNI and Missouri State lost, 2 more games to go, ILS and Bradley play yet


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## ISUCC

Illinois State lost at home to San Diego State, so it's up to Bradley to beat New Mexico or the MVC-MWC challenge ends in a tie at 5-5

Loyola, Evansville, and SIU have won today, Drake and UNI and Bradley play tonight


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## ISUCC

Drake won, Missouri State got hammered at Oregon State

Bradley is losing to New Mexico at the half


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## meistro

Looks like we have as good a chance as anybody this year


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## Gotta Hav

meistro said:


> Looks like we have as good a chance as anybody this year



Us, and just for the record, I'm adding Valpo as good a chance as anybody.

Their win over UNLV at UNLV was an eye opener....Derek Smits gets 20 points and 12 rebounds against a Runnin' Rebel team?  What the?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sport...s-big-run-to-victory-over-unlv-72-64-1538035/   Scroll past the big ad to get to the story....


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Two common opponent games of interest on Wednesday. 

Mo State vs. Western KY

Loyola vs. Ball State 

Will be interesting to see how those games turn out. Personally would be okay with both Mo State and Loyola getting beat. I don't really want to see either team get going with confidence prior to the conference starting. Given that the league wide metrics are already trending down-ward we're defiantly looking at a likely 1 bid league. Just need to keep it rolling and hope other programs continue to trip - really a dream scenario for me anyway. Unless the MVC is playing a power 5 school I rarely care one way or another if MVC teams win or not. 

Granted I know we go back and forth on this annually and we've got members of this forum that like to see other Valley programs do well - if that is you then good for you. I just don't understand it and could care less if any of them win a single game. Cheering for them to win in the NCAA Tournament a little bit different - to a certain extent I can understand that.


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## jturner38

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Two common opponent games of interest on Wednesday.
> 
> Mo State vs. Western KY
> 
> Loyola vs. Ball State
> 
> Will be interesting to see how those games turn out. Personally would be okay with both Mo State and Loyola getting beat. I don't really want to see either team get going with confidence prior to the conference starting. Given that the league wide metrics are already trending down-ward we're defiantly looking at a likely 1 bid league. Just need to keep it rolling and hope other programs continue to trip - really a dream scenario for me anyway. Unless the MVC is playing a power 5 school I rarely care one way or another if MVC teams win or not.
> 
> Granted I know we go back and forth on this annually and we've got members of this forum that like to see other Valley programs do well - if that is you then good for you. I just don't understand it and could care less if any of them win a single game. Cheering for them to win in the NCAA Tournament a little bit different - to a certain extent I can understand that.



You do know how at large bids work right? Nonconference you should want every MVC team to win...and then when conference starts then of course we aren't rooting for anybody else until toward the end of regular season when seeds come into play that affect us for the conference tournament.


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## TreeTop

Only way we can even THINK about at-large bidding for the Sycamores is if we run the table the rest of the way in the Non-Con.

Once we do that, then we'll pretty much need to run the table in the MVC....then we can start talking about an at-large bid...assuming we can make it to the MVC tourney Final.

Sadly, that's just about the reality of it all.


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## jturner38

TreeTop said:


> Only way we can even THINK about at-large bidding for the Sycamores is if we run the table the rest of the way in the Non-Con.
> 
> Once we do that, then we'll pretty much need to run the table in the MVC....then we can start talking about an at-large bid...assuming we can make it to the MVC tourney Final.
> 
> Sadly, that's just about the reality of it all.



While you are pretty much correct that wasnt my point of emphasis. By rooting for other MVC schools in the nonconference you would like them to be a Q1 or Q2 win when we beat them. Which helps builds a resume for us to try and earn a bid. But that’s the part that’s out of our control. We obviously have to do our part too. A UE team that’s won 2 games and let’s say RPI 320 that would be a bad loss compared to let’s say a loss to Loyola who’s let’s say only have 4 losses to end the year. A loss to them wouldnt be a bad loss. So in that regard is why you want to root for the conference to do well.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

jturner38 said:


> You do know how at large bids work right? Nonconference you should want every MVC team to win...and then when conference starts then of course we aren't rooting for anybody else until toward the end of regular season when seeds come into play that affect us for the conference tournament.



You know the difference between my understanding of at-large bids and your understanding?? My understanding is that I know how difficult that task has proved to be with Creighton and then Wichita State leaving the MVC and in addition to that I have a very clear understanding of what direction the NCAA Selection Committee leans every single year. Newsflash - they don't lean toward the fringe mid-majors getting in over Power 5 schools. If you want to be simple minded and think it's as simple as other MVC schools winning non conference games them cheer your heart out!!! Go post on MVCFans and talk about the rest of the Valley and be a Valley fan - I'm good with that. 

If you really think it matters if Mo State and Loyola or anyone else for that matter wins this week outside of conference then you really don't see the big picture - you think life is as simple as what you see on the outside. That's okay - but don't ask me condescending rhetorical questions. Defiantly don't get man when an MVC school has a good season and doesn't make it to Sunday in St. Louis..


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## SycamoreStateofMind

jturner38 said:


> While you are pretty much correct that wasnt my point of emphasis. By rooting for other MVC schools in the nonconference you would like them to be a Q1 or Q2 win when we beat them. Which helps builds a resume for us to try and earn a bid. But that’s the part that’s out of our control. We obviously have to do our part too. A UE team that’s won 2 games and let’s say RPI 320 that would be a bad loss compared to let’s say a loss to Loyola who’s let’s say only have 4 losses to end the year. A loss to them wouldnt be a bad loss. So in that regard is why you want to root for the conference to do well.



15 years ago - sure thing. You cheer for the conference and the Valley gets 4 or 5 schools in. That isn't the reality anymore - I'm not sure why people still want to believe that is possible. Don't be mad at me about it either - be mad at the NCAA. They don't want 4 or 5 Valley schools to get in. If it ever happens again it will be an absolute anomily and they will probably overhal the system if it does. If you really check the box score and get satisfaction out of other Valley schools winning then it's because your own program (Indiana State) hasn't given you enough to be satisfied about and you just want to have something to cheer for. 

That's most of us - so I suggest finding another hobby because in the grand scheme of things the NCAA don't give a shit about the Valley and our place in the at-large conversation.


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## SycfromBirth

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You know the difference between my understanding of at-large bids and your understanding?? My understanding is that I know how difficult that task is going to be with Creighton and then Wichita State leaving the MVC really is and in addition to that I have a very clear understanding of what direction the NCAA Selection Committee leans every single year. If you want to be simple minded and think it's as simple as other MVC schools winning games them cheer your heart out!!!
> 
> If you really think it matters if Mo State and Loyola or anyone else for that matter wins this week outside of conference then you really don't see the big picture - you think life is as simple as what you see on the outside. That's okay - but don't ask me condescending rhetorical questions.



I think a large number of people on the board have a grasp of the uphill battle the MVC, as a whole, fights on a yearly basis.  Flat out, the conference is only going to get stronger in the event of the members performing at a higher level.

If the conference has winning teams then they get better players.  Better players means more wins in the non-conference (and thus a stronger conference).  A stronger conference means more tournament bids, better TV deals and more money for the conference.

I understand that you are in the "Go Sycamores and screw everyone else" train, maybe that's the right track??  Personally I think it is pretty short sighted.

If that's really what you want then you would likely advocate for us to drop to a weaker conference... easier path to the NCAA, right?

Yes, it sucks that Creighton and WSU left the conference.  Good for them, but I would like to point out that without the performance of Creighton and WSU over the last several decades (and the higher conference rank that went along with it) then ISU would be looking at fewer postseason berths (and worse seeding).  Not to mention the millions of dollars worth of funds that they brought to ALL of the members of the conference.  Do you think ISU would be getting invites to play in Hawaii without the prior performance of the conference?

Go Sycamores!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

SycfromBirth said:


> I think a large number of people on the board have a grasp of the uphill battle the MVC, as a whole, fights on a yearly basis.  Flat out, the conference is only going to get stronger in the event of the members performing at a higher level.
> 
> If the conference has winning teams then they get better players.  Better players means more wins in the non-conference (and thus a stronger conference).  A stronger conference means more tournament bids, better TV deals and more money for the conference.
> 
> I understand that you are in the "Go Sycamores and screw everyone else" train, maybe that's the right track??  Personally I think it is pretty short sighted.
> 
> If that's really what you want then you would likely advocate for us to drop to a weaker conference... easier path to the NCAA, right?
> 
> Yes, it sucks that Creighton and WSU left the conference.  Good for them, but I would like to point out that without the performance of Creighton and WSU over the last several decades (and the higher conference rank that went along with it) then ISU would be looking at fewer postseason berths (and worse seeding).  Not to mention the millions of dollars worth of funds that they brought to ALL of the members of the conference.  Do you think ISU would be getting invites to play in Hawaii without the prior performance of the conference?
> 
> Go Sycamores!



Let me start by saying if you want to have a insightful conversation about this then I welcome the opportunity to have a discussion - this exactly the type of post you make if you want to have a conversation. If you want to get cute and ask someone if they have a handle on the at-large process then I'm going to tell you how the world really works and probably not come off very warm in doing so.

I don't advocate for us dropping to a weaker conference. I think this conference has a lot going for it and think other mid-majors can only dream of being a member of this conference. As a whole it's not been perfect though - they've probably lacked the aggressiveness and pro-activeness to keep Creighton and Wichita State around. As you pointed out - that hasn't necessarily appeard from the outside looking in to be the best of moves for those programs so far but the fact remains that them leaving the Valley hurt us all. Replacing them with Loyola and Valpo is not remotely the same - ignore the fact that Loyola had the incredible season they had last year. The two programs you lost were not only the two most successful they had huge fan and donor bases. Once again highlighting my most recent post - this is not the 4 and 5 bid Valley that I cheered for when I was a kid. 

Could it get back to that?? I'm pretty skeptical - one thing I'm defiantly 100% positive about is that us ever getting back to that point has nothing to do with me or us as a whole cheering, praying, wanting or anything else for Valley teams to win in the non-conference. They are either going to win or they're not and my attitude matters not to the outcome. Everyone can have the "Go Sycamores and screw everyone else" mindset and nothing else is going to change. 

People like to have stuff to talk about and another Valley team beating _______ team gives them something to talk about. Fine! I do this every year on here with some people and truly enjoy the hell out of it. I'm not specifically pointing the finger at anyone here but do you know the biggest reason I enjoy it? It exposes the fact that we have more people interested in coming on here and defending cheering for the Valley than supporting, defending and fighting for Indiana State.


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## ISUCC

in the new Mid Major Top 25 poll ISU checks in at #38 this week. Loyola is #10, Illinois State is #20, Southern Illinois is #29, Bradley is #32, Drake is #49. 

Non MVC schools, Ball State is #39, Wright State #45 and Green Bay #46. 

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php

If we can creep up this poll into the top 5 that greatly enhances our chance for an at large bid if we don't win in St Louis. Just gotta keep winning....it's a long season


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## meistro

ISUCC said:


> in the new Mid Major Top 25 poll ISU checks in at #38 this week. Loyola is #10, Illinois State is #20, Southern Illinois is #29, Bradley is #32, Drake is #49.
> 
> Non MVC schools, Ball State is #39, Wright State #45 and Green Bay #46.
> 
> http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
> 
> If we can creep up this poll into the top 5 that greatly enhances our chance for an at large bid if we don't win in St Louis. Just gotta keep winning....it's a long season



While it's good to see us creeping up this chart. The fact that there are 4 mvc teams above us in this poll, when we have the top rip and net score in the conference, shows how unreliable these things are. They're especially unreliable this time of year. Still good that we're moving up. Just keep winning boys. I hate to even utter the words at large bid at this point, it's way too early. Let's talk about it after February if we have less than 5 losses. The next thing we'll start talking about is the February collapse, lol.


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## ISUCC

and now this from Golden, keep moving up and our odds greatly continue to increase to get that at large bid if we need it


In updated NCAA NET ratings, Indiana State is MVC’s highest-rated team at 75.— Todd Aaron Golden (@ToddAaronGolden) December 4, 2018


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## meistro

ISUCC said:


> and now this from Golden, keep moving up and our odds greatly continue to increase to get that at large bid if we need it
> 
> 
> In updated NCAA NET ratings, Indiana State is MVC’s highest-rated team at 75.— Todd Aaron Golden (@ToddAaronGolden) December 4, 2018

That's what I was talking about. I think we also have the highest rpi


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## jturner38

ISUCC said:


> and now this from Golden, keep moving up and our odds greatly continue to increase to get that at large bid if we need it
> 
> 
> In updated NCAA NET ratings, Indiana State is MVC’s highest-rated team at 75.— Todd Aaron Golden (@ToddAaronGolden) December 4, 2018

Which is why I was making the point of why we want the other schools to do good in the nonconference bc our wins will look better in conference play and also increase our odds. I would think that everybody would agree that while winning the conference tournament guarantees us a spot in the NCAA we would also want to be in a position to get an at large bid if we didn't win the conference tournament. I don't necessarily care about multiple bids. Without teams performing well in noncom it's going to always be Conference Tournament or bust.


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## jturner38

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You know the difference between my understanding of at-large bids and your understanding?? My understanding is that I know how difficult that task has proved to be with Creighton and then Wichita State leaving the MVC and in addition to that I have a very clear understanding of what direction the NCAA Selection Committee leans every single year. Newsflash - they don't lean toward the fringe mid-majors getting in over Power 5 schools. If you want to be simple minded and think it's as simple as other MVC schools winning non conference games them cheer your heart out!!! Go post on MVCFans and talk about the rest of the Valley and be a Valley fan - I'm good with that.
> 
> If you really think it matters if Mo State and Loyola or anyone else for that matter wins this week outside of conference then you really don't see the big picture - you think life is as simple as what you see on the outside. That's okay - but don't ask me condescending rhetorical questions. Defiantly don't get man when an MVC school has a good season and doesn't make it to Sunday in St. Louis..



Them winning now who knows but I never once said if another school does well and doesn't get in that I'm going to be mad. I'm talking specifically what needs to happen for us to get in. Without teams performing well it's always going to be conference tournament or bust. You would want us to be in a position to get an at large if we don't win it. It has nothing to do with being a fan of another school or anything. Of course the NCAA wants to put in those schools over mid majors. But if every MVC school won every nonconference (wont ever happen but you want it to be close) and we go 15-3 in conference there aren't any excuses why we wouldn't get in (I'm sure the NCAA would find a way though) otherwise by your opinion on that matter everybody else sh*ts the bed we go 15-3 and lose the conference tournament then we not getting in the NCAA tournament. That was the only point I was really making but if you don't care about us getting an at large if we can be in that position then so be it.


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## Gotta Hav

Is their a moderator who can move all of this OFF TOPIC discussion to another thread? Jason?

This thread is about AROUND THE VALLEY 2018, not loathing for how people enjoy their own personal lives.

Is there a point in having acrimony towards those who want to talk about AROUND THE VALLEY?  If so, I don't get it.

If people want to talk about their dislike of SP Bloggers who follow the scores of other MVC schools, go create your own thread and HATE AWAY there.


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## WOZ

Gotta Hav said:


> Is their a moderator who can move all of this OFF TOPIC discussion to another thread? Jason?
> 
> This thread is about AROUND THE VALLEY 2018, not loathing for how people enjoy their own personal lives.
> 
> Is there a point in having acrimony towards those who want to talk about AROUND THE VALLEY?  If so, I don't get it.
> 
> If people want to talk about their dislike of SP Bloggers who follow the scores of other MVC schools, go create your own thread and HATE AWAY there.



Good post.  I couldn’t agree more.


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## ISUCC

tonight's games include 

Bradley at Arkansas Little Rock @ 730pm

Evansville at Arkansas State @ 800pm

High Point at Valpo @ 800pm on ESPN3

Hoping for 3-0, but probably 2-1 or 1-2 will be the outcome

Tomorrow is the big night this week

North Texas at ISU

Illinois State at UIC

St Louis at SIU (St Louis just beat Butler)

WKU at Missouri State (can MSU do what we did?)

Ball State at Loyola - should be pretty good

Then on Thursday

Drake at UW-Milwaukee


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## ISUCC

Well, if Bradley plays like they are tonight we won't have any trouble with them, they've hit 1 FG thru the under 8 timeout. 1-16 from the field, a 3 pointer, and 3 free throws in 12 minutes is all they got

despite shooting a whopping 19% from the field in the first half, the Braves only trail by 5, good thing they hit their FTs

Bradley stormed back to win, Evansville will lose to Arkansas State

and Valpo loses at home to High Point, so the MVC goes 1-2 as somewhat expected


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## meistro

Definitely a down year in the valley. Hope we take advantage and make a run at the title.


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## ISUCC

meistro said:


> Definitely a down year in the valley. Hope we take advantage and make a run at the title.



it really is, every year people think the MVC is going to be better than the year before, optimism is high, but you never know until you start playing the games how the season is going to unfold for each team. This year it just seems the MVC is really down. So we need to take advantage.


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## jturner38

ISUCC said:


> it really is, every year people think the MVC is going to be better than the year before, optimism is high, but you never know until you start playing the games how the season is going to unfold for each team. This year it just seems the MVC is really down. So we need to take advantage.


Yup and that means our room for error for an at large bid is small...about the size of a dot. With other MVC teams not performing well we pretty much need to finish the nonconference strong and then run the table in conference. And even that may not be enough.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Gotta Hav said:


> Us, and just for the record, I'm adding Valpo as good a chance as anybody.



Good call... Great showing by Valpo last night vs. a 3-5 High Point team.


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## IndyTreeFan

The thing about the Valley is, even in years when the non-con looks "down," there will usually be one (sometimes two) teams that really put it all together come conference season.  Last year it was Loyola.  This year?  It really could be anyone, but at this point, I'd say we have as good a shot as anyone.  Win tonight, win Saturday, head to TCU at 7-1.  No one would have thought that.  And we still have lots of room to improve!!!

No at large for our league, but someone will be playing great ball by mid-January...


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## Gotta Hav

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Good call... Great showing by Valpo last night vs. a 3-5 High Point team.



Just another Low Point this year for Valpo and the MVC.....


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## Gotta Hav

I left the ISU UNT game early.  Watched the end of the 1st half, and ALL of the 2nd half of the Misery State and Western Kentucky game.

MSU WON....and if we can beat Missouri State HOME and AWAY...it will be a miracle.  They looked like MVC Champs tonight!

P.S.  Ryan Kreklow for the Bears, is now 32 and in his 15th Senior year!  Come on dude, GRADUATE!!!


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## Sycamorefan96

Amazing loss for the Jailbirds tonight. They lost 94-75 to UIC. Pretty soon Loyola and Valpo will be wanting to head back to the Horizon League.


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## meistro

MVCfans is still talking about where to go for expansion. Valley teams need to worry more about recruiting better. Just don't seem to be the athletes that these CUSA teams have.


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## Sycamorefan96

I could be wrong, but I kind of feel like most of the publics in our league care more about MVFC football than MVC basketball at this point. Like us for example. We spend more money on football per season than Bradley (the top MVC spender) spends on basketball. Then outside of Bradley and Loyola I feel like the other private schools don't really try that hard.


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## Gotta Hav

Loyola LOST at HOME tonight against Testicle Tech...during every crunch moment...they had NO answer for TAYLER PERSONS...or anyone else on BSU's team.


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## ISUCC

Drake is playing UW Milwaukee on ESPN+ right now if anyone is interested


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## pbutler218

ISUCC said:


> Drake is playing UW Milwaukee on ESPN+ right now if anyone is interested


And Drake is looking damn good too.


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## Gotta Hav

pbutler218 said:


> And Drake is looking damn good too.



And another contender for the 2018-2019 arises from no where to be the potential MVC Regular Season and Tournament Champs. LOL!

That McCglyn was a beast last year around the bucket and they've got this new 7' 240 lb. Freshman phenom (he is in the MVC) Liam Robbins.

https://godrakebulldogs.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5931
https://godrakebulldogs.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5868&path=

I didn't get to see if Drake ever had McGlyn and Robbins in at the same time, since both are listed as Forwards but played Center the time I watched...regardless, both know what to do in the paint.  From what I saw of the game, if their shot wasn't OFF-THE-GLASS, there wasn't a shot taken.  Just like Krutwig at Loyola!!!

Something a lesson Kessinger and Rickman could learn...since neither one of them have a shot.   Those things BK and ER take are NOT shots.  They're just PRAYERS that are thrown, tossed, pushed, flipped, etc. towards the bucket, with the HOPE that there's a positive outcome...of which there usually isn't.   

And 5th year Senior graduate transfer Brady Ellingson from Iowa is the real deal for them...not just same space eater...though he only avg 3.3 ppg at IOWA he tore up Milwaukee last night with his overall play and scored 11 points.

https://www.thegazette.com/subject/...rady-ellingson-transferring-to-drake-20180416


----------



## Gotta Hav

Heck of a game!  Valpo beats A10 George Washington, at George Washington 82-79.


----------



## ISUCC

SIU is playing at SEMO now on ESPN+

Illinois State is hosting Ole Miss also on ESPN+ right now. 

Could use a couple wins tonight

Us and UNI had to come from behind to beat D2 schools today

Great win for Valpo


----------



## Bluethunder

Loyola ice cold today against Maryland, loses by double digits.  Not sure of final score, but don't think the Ramblers broke 40


----------



## ISUCC

SIU beat SEMO

ILS on the verge of losing at home to Ole Miss

still no signature wins by any MVC team yet this season


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

WKU was still a pretty decent win at the time. WKU knocked off Arkansas last night. Not sure our win qualifies as signature by any means but it was one of the better wins for the Valley to date.


----------



## pbutler218

Not Valley related but I saw that (after we made them look like world beaters) North Texas barely won at home against UT-Arlington by only 2 points yesterday.


----------



## meistro

Great win for Valpo? GW is now 2-8


----------



## ISUCC

Ball State tries for the MVC sweep today at Evansville, they have beaten every MVC team they have played this year.

Edit, Ball State still plays Valpo at Valpo, there they will try for the MVC sweep

They're winning at UE this afternoon, on espn+


----------



## Gotta Hav

meistro said:


> Great win for Valpo? GW is now 2-8



Where did you read that was a GREAT WIN for Valpo?  Even the nwitimes.com sports wouldn't write that.


----------



## meistro

Gotta Hav said:


> Where did you read that was a GREAT WIN for Valpo?  Even the nwitimes.com sports wouldn't write that.



You said it was a heckuva game and isucc said it was a great win for Valpo. I’m glad Valpo won, but not an impressive win against a team that is now 2-8


----------



## pbutler218

Last score I saw Evansville was thrashing Ball State pretty good.


----------



## ISUCC

yep, UE roared back in the 2nd half and beat Ball State, so the MVC got 1 win over the Cardinals, we'll see if Valpo can also


----------



## Gotta Hav

meistro said:


> You said it was a heckuva game and isucc said it was a great win for Valpo. I’m glad Valpo won, but not an impressive win against a team that is now 2-8



Grow up.   Did you watch the BSU EVANSVILLE game?  Maybe you should have instead of being some kinda HE SAID Ann Landers weirdo troublemaker.

Evansville's trouncing in the 2nd half of BSU was a GREAT WIN for them...

It will interesting to see how the MVC season unfolds....EVANSVILLE was solid and on fire in the 2nd half, against a team with 4X's the talent....


----------



## meistro

Gotta Hav said:


> Grow up.   Did you watch the BSU EVANSVILLE game?  Maybe you should have instead of being some kinda HE SAID Ann Landers weirdo troublemaker.
> 
> Evansville's trouncing in the 2nd half of BSU was a GREAT WIN for them...
> 
> It will interesting to see how the MVC season unfolds....EVANSVILLE was solid and on fire in the 2nd half, against a team with 4X's the talent....



Dude, what is your problem? I need to grow up and I’m a weirdo trouble maker? You don’t know anything about me, so go screw your self. I was merely pointing out that there really wasn’t anything that impressive about that Valpo win. People on here can be so quick to criticize anything about our team, while heaping praise on other teams.


----------



## Gotta Hav

meistro said:


> Dude, what is your problem? I need to grow up and I’m a weirdo trouble maker? You don’t know anything about me, so go screw your self. I was merely pointing out that there really wasn’t anything that impressive about that Valpo win. People on here can be so quick to criticize anything about our team, while heaping praise on other teams.



I NEVER said the VALPO win over GW was impressive...and I never HEAPED ANY PRAISE ON VALPO.

I said it was A HECK OF A GAME...no more...no less.   If you had watched it, that would have been your take-away too.   Here's something...I HATE THE PATRIOTS....but they somehow always seem to play one HECK OF A GAME.   That's it...quit reading crap into words that aren't there....and that haven't been written.


----------



## ISUCC

here are the remaining MVC games until conference play starts that would be considered good wins for the MVC

*Indiana State*
TCU
Colorado
Hawaii or UNLV
TCU (again) Rhode Island

*Southern Illinois*
Murray State
Buffalo

*Drake *
Iowa State
New Mexico State (nearly beat Kansas last night)
Washington State or San Diego

*Northern Iowa*
Iowa
Stony Brook

*Valpo*
Ball State
Texas A & M

*Bradley*
Georgia Southern (best team remaining on their schedule)

*Missouri State*
Arkansas State (best team remaining on their schedule)

*Evansville *
Murray State
UW Green Bay
Miami (ohio)

*Loyola *
St Joseph's

*Illinois State*
Central Florida

So looking at these games, I'd say us and Drake have the best opportunities to get the best wins in non con play


----------



## Gotta Hav

ISUCC said:


> here are the remaining MVC games until conference play starts that would be considered good wins for the MVC
> 
> *Indiana State*
> TCU
> Colorado
> Hawaii or UNLV
> TCU (again) Rhode Island
> 
> *Southern Illinois*
> Murray State
> Buffalo
> 
> *Drake *
> Iowa State
> New Mexico State (nearly beat Kansas last night)
> Washington State or San Diego
> 
> *Northern Iowa*
> Iowa
> Stony Brook
> 
> *Valpo*
> Ball State
> Texas A & M
> 
> *Bradley*
> Georgia Southern (best team remaining on their schedule)
> 
> *Missouri State*
> Arkansas State (best team remaining on their schedule)
> 
> *Evansville *
> Murray State
> UW Green Bay
> Miami (ohio)
> 
> *Loyola *
> St Joseph's
> 
> *Illinois State*
> Central Florida
> 
> So looking at these games, I'd say us and Drake have the best opportunities to get the best wins in non con play



Thanks for putting this together.  Some pretty interesting match ups....and from all of the games I've watched this year....the MVC could go BUST in all of these games, win half, or win ALL....it just depends on who decides to show up.

The exception might be UNI, they're passion for playing hard and to receive inspirational and creative game coaching is probably the worse right now in the MVC....


----------



## meistro

Gonna watch some of the Colorado /New Mexico game and see what we’ll be up against. On espn2 if anybody is interested.


----------



## ISUCC

New Mexico crushing CU here in the 1st half


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> New Mexico crushing CU here in the 1st half



Down to 4 in the second half. Colorado is athletic but beatable if we guard them and force turnovers.


----------



## ISUCC

Colorado stormed back to win by 3 last night. 

Murray State is at SIU tonight in the lone MVC game

last night up in Brookings, SD my buddies were texting me, the jacks scored 90 points in the first half and scored 139 points in a game against Savannah State. Savannah State is horrid, and sounds like they are dropping out of D1

Also, with our big loss to North Texas we dropped all the way out of the mid major top 25 poll this week, maybe a good 4 game stretch here will get up back in there

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> Colorado stormed back to win by 3 last night.
> 
> Murray State is at SIU tonight in the lone MVC game
> 
> last night up in Brookings, SD my buddies were texting me, the jacks scored 90 points in the first half and scored 139 points in a game against Savannah State. Savannah State is horrid, and sounds like they are dropping out of D1
> 
> Also, with our big loss to North Texas we dropped all the way out of the mid major top 25 poll this week, maybe a good 4 game stretch here will get up back in there
> 
> http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php



That Mid-Major Top 25 is questionable. Gonzaga is NOT a mid-major program. They spent more on hoops that a large majority of the power conference schools do. As does a several other schools in their league like Saint Mary's. 

IMO, the cutoff to be included should be a $5m per year basketball budget if you're in a "mid-major" conference.


----------



## ISUCC

Murray State at SIU is now on espn+, SIU off to a slow start, down 10 already

edit that, SIU is down 20 already

SIU came out like we did vs North Texas, no energy at all

now SIU is down 25, they actually came out WORSE than we did vs North Texas, they look awful

49-18 Murray State over SIU at the half, good lord


----------



## pbutler218

Murray State putting on a show. Embarrassing SIU right now.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

I sure am glad we turned down Murray in favor of Valpo...:barf:


----------



## ISUCC

IndyTreeFan said:


> I sure am glad we turned down Murray in favor of Valpo...:barf:



man, ain't that the truth, sheesh

still a 32 point deficit

the SIU message board is, of course, in meltdown mode, but our would be too


----------



## ISUCC

SIU won the 2nd half!! But lost by 28! Ugh


----------



## Sycamorefan96

IndyTreeFan said:


> I sure am glad we turned down Murray in favor of Valpo...:barf:



The fact that the MVC won't add them is just poor leadership. The "11 doesn't work" excuse doesn't work for me. I went to the OVC semifinals last year and Murray State fans took over Evansville's arena. There had to have been at least 6-7000 Murray State fans there at least. Elgin and the president's just continue to infuriate me year after year.


----------



## ISUCC

Updating this - best remaining good wins available for each MVC team

*Indiana State*
TCU
Colorado
Hawaii or UNLV
TCU (again) Rhode Island

*Southern Illinois*
Murray State (LOSS)
Buffalo

*Drake *
Iowa State
New Mexico State (nearly beat Kansas last night)
Washington State or San Diego

*Northern Iowa*
Iowa
Stony Brook

*Valpo*
Ball State
Texas A & M

*Bradley*
Georgia Southern (best team remaining on their schedule)

*Missouri State*
Arkansas State (best team remaining on their schedule)

*Evansville *
Murray State
UW Green Bay
Miami (ohio)

*Loyola *
St Joseph's

*Illinois State*
Central Florida


----------



## ISUCC

Weekend games in the MVC, a few games vs good teams that would help the MVC. Will we win any of them?

*Saturday*

Jacksonville State at Evansville

SIU at Buffalo

Iowa State vs Drake

UNI vs Iowa

Eastern Illinois at Bradley

Missouri State at North Dakota State

*Sunday*

Cleveland State at Illinois State

Norfolk State at Loyola

Indiana State at Texas Christian


----------



## Sycamorefan96

MVC goes 2-4 Saturday (BU and MSU win) and 2-1 tomorrow (we lose) is my guess. Jacksonville State isn't great, but they are pretty decent. They should beat UE in a close game. Honestly between Murray St and Belmont, the OVC has a better shot of getting an at large than the MVC does, and their chances are next to none.


----------



## ISUCC

I think most, but not all, of the weekend MVC games are viewable online, 2pm today is the start of the games (SIU on ESPN+)


----------



## ISUCC

updating

*Saturday*

Jacksonville State at Evansville (Evansville lost)

SIU at Buffalo (SIU lost)

Iowa State vs Drake (Drake lost in a competitive game)

UNI vs Iowa (UNI lost BADLY) 

Eastern Illinois at Bradley (Bradley loses to EIU, who had lost to Chicago State, LOL)

Missouri State at North Dakota State (Missouri State loses) 

*Sunday*

Cleveland State at Illinois State (Illinois State WINS)

Norfolk State at Loyola (Loyola wins)

Indiana State at Texas Christian (ISU loses)


----------



## ISUCC

Looks like the MVC will have a worst case scenario today and go 0-6 as Missouri State is currently our last chance and getting blown out in Fargo.

It really appears we can win the MVC this year, there is no one team that is very good in the MVC folks.

Edit: The MVC goes 0-6 today. Good lord. Lets take the MVC folks, noone else looks like they are gonna be very good


----------



## ISUCC

3 games today, Illinois State up by a small margin on Cleveland State near end of first half on EPSN+


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

The more interesting conversation about the Valley the rest of the season will be how the awful looking MVC will effect our eventual tournament qualifiers overall seed... All these BAD losses starting to mount - it's been ugly.


----------



## meistro

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The more interesting conversation about the Valley the rest of the season will be how the awful looking MVC will effect our eventual tournament qualifiers overall seed... All these BAD losses starting to mount - it's been ugly.



Ya, not looking good. I’d say best case would be a 12, more likely 14. Unless, somebody (hopefully us) gets hot and finishes with only 6 or 7 losses.


----------



## ISUCC

if Illinois State doesn't get their act together they're gonna lose to Cleveland State, right now they're down 7 with 7 minutes left. 

good lord is all I can say, will the MVC go 0-9 for the weekend??

Loyola plays at 4pm, and we're at 5pm

Hopefully we come out with more energy than ILS is displaying today

Overtime at Illinois State


----------



## ISUCC

The MVC get a win! In OT as Illinois State came back to win

Loyola now on ESPN+


----------



## ISUCC

Loyola wins, and the ugly weekend comes to an end with a 2-7 record for the MVC, yuck


----------



## TreeTop

MVC is a one-bid league, but who cares?  Let's just be the one team to get that one bid.


----------



## pbutler218

TreeTop said:


> MVC is a one-bid league, but who cares?  Let's just be the one team to get that one bid.



Agreed. That's all that matters!!


----------



## ISUCC

2 games tonight, Drake is beating SIU-E pretty easily, while Ball State is having no trouble winning at Valpo

The ISU women played at Butler tonight, went to the game since it was close by, ISU was never in it, trailing by 30 at one point and lost by 23 I believe. They were never in it.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

ISUCC said:


> 2 games tonight, Drake is beating SIU-E pretty easily, while Ball State is having no trouble winning at Valpo
> 
> The ISU women played at Butler tonight, went to the game since it was close by, ISU was never in it, trailing by 30 at one point and lost by 23 I believe. They were never in it.




Ouch, did we come out flat?  Is Butler that good?


----------



## ISUCC

Sycamore Proud said:


> Ouch, did we come out flat?  Is Butler that good?



there were a number of things, Butler certainly was the better team tonight, they had a pretty good height advantage over ISU. They were also quick, many times Butler applied a full court press and pretty much every time ISU turned it over. 

ISU's offense seemed a bit helter skelter, they seemed to be trying to move too quickly and a lot of times took some ill advised shots. And generally we shot very poorly on the night. That could be attributed to Butler's defense. I could tell pretty early on it was gonna be a long night for ISU and it certainly wound up to be that way. Drake will obviously run away with the MVC title this year, but no reason ISU can't fight for 2nd place, which would be a huge achievement for coach Hall in year 1


----------



## ISUCC

tonights games

Bradley at Georgia Southern

Missouri State at Arkansas State

Evansville at Murray State

Benedictine at Loyola

More than likely Loyola will be the only winner tonight


----------



## ISUCC

Bradley has their big 7 footer back tonight Boya, they're leading 30-28 at the half


----------



## ISUCC

Bradley loses a tough game in OT at Georgia Southern, MSU is trailing Arkansas State late, Evansville is only down 4 at Murray State, but I don't see the Aces coming back. So as expected the MVC goes 1-3 with Loyola winning over a non D1 team

Aces lose a heartbreaker at the buzzer as Morant hits a layup with .5 left to give Murray State the win

MVC loses all their D1 games tonight


----------



## Sycamore Proud

I'm so much looking forward the the Valley season.  Very few expected the Valery to get an at-large bid.  Those hopes are gone now.    For the most part the non-conf season has been a disappointment for the MVC.  I don't see any dominationg power in the conference.  I'm looking for a competitive Valley season.  Maybe that will help forget the non-conf season.Will the conference get and NIT bid?  I'm not sure that it will happen.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Sycamore Proud said:


> I'm so much looking forward the the Valley season.  Very few expected the Valery to get an at-large bid.  Those hopes are gone now.    For the most part the non-conf season has been a disappointment for the MVC.  I don't see any dominationg power in the conference.  I'm looking for a competitive Valley season.  Maybe that will help forget the non-conf season.*Will the conference get and NIT bid?*  I'm not sure that it will happen.



If Illinois State wins the regular season the valley will get an NIT bid.:biggrin:


----------



## Southgrad07

If the regular season champ doesn't win arch madness they are guaranteed an NIT bid..Or at least up until this season it has been that way. But your point is still made..The Valley pooped its pants in the non con. Bradley had 30 TO's and 31 Fouls last night...How you even get to overtime doing that is pretty remarkable lol


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamore tuff said:


> If Illinois State wins the regular season the valley will get an NIT bid.:biggrin:


*
Breaking News - Indianapolis: *

NCAA just announced the winner of the MVC Tournament in St. Louis will get an automatic bid to the NIT Tournament. The winner of the regular season and or the tournament has been effectively uninvited to the NCAA Tournament. 

*MVC Commissioner Doug Elgin - Response *

Thank you for just inviting to be a part of the NCAA - we're glad to be here. Hopefully, Evansville or Drake can make the CBI Tournament, make a run and see an impact for years to come from just being invited to such a prestigious tournament.

*Sister Jean - Response *

I just don't know what to make of all this fame - we were just glad to be in the NCAA tournament last year, the Lord blessed us with that Final Four run and no one can take that away from us. 

But... Loyola is going to be the next Notre Dame and we're planning on leaving the MVC and will no longer be affiliated with the conference. We hope to form a new Catholic Athletic Conference (CAC) in the future and will only allow Catholic schools to participate. 

*Greg Lansing - Response *

I take full blame for this - we've gotta be tougher as a league. 

*Barry Hinson - Response*

Our league is absolutely awful. Our commissioner is awful. Sister Jean is awful. My WIFE - My WIFE is better than all of you and she doesn't even know what basketball is. I'm tired of this. Merry Christmas!


----------



## BrokerZ

I, for one, am thrilled to see the rest of the Valley suck.  I'm not sure where these idea of grandeur about automatic bids come from, but the only route to the NCAA tournament for any MVC team is through the conference tournament.  That was the case before the exhibition games began, and it remains the case now.

Look around, the Sycamores have a very good chance of winning this conference.  What was everyone goal/hope for this team before it began...to be 5th in a competitive league and hope for more ESPNU games next year?  My hope every year is to be sitting in the stands watching the Sycamores play a first round game in the NCAA tournament.

The rest of the MVC can screw off.  I'm only interested in how the rest of the league teams do as scouting for our upcoming games.


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> *
> Breaking News - Indianapolis: *
> 
> NCAA just announced the winner of the MVC Tournament in St. Louis will get an automatic bid to the NIT Tournament. The winner of the regular season and or the tournament has been effectively uninvited to the NCAA Tournament.
> 
> *MVC Commissioner Doug Elgin - Response *
> 
> Thank you for just inviting to be a part of the NCAA - we're glad to be here. Hopefully, Evansville or Drake can make the CBI Tournament, make a run and see an impact for years to come from just being invited to such a prestigious tournament.
> 
> *Sister Jean - Response *
> 
> I just don't know what to make of all this fame - we were just glad to be in the NCAA tournament last year, the Lord blessed us with that Final Four run and no one can take that away from us.
> 
> But... Loyola is going to be the next Notre Dame and we're planning on leaving the MVC and will no longer be affiliated with the conference. We hope to form a new Catholic Athletic Conference (CAC) in the future and will only allow Catholic schools to participate.
> 
> *Greg Lansing - Response *
> 
> I take full blame for this - we've gotta be tougher as a league.
> 
> *Barry Hinson - Response*
> 
> Our league is absolutely awful. Our commissioner is awful. Sister Jean is awful. My WIFE - My WIFE is better than all of you and she doesn't even know what basketball is. I'm tired of this. Merry Christmas!



you have way too much time on your hands lol


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> you have way too much time on your hands lol



I really don't... HAHA! It just kept going and I was amusing myself and couldn't stop. It's kinda like beer - I really don't need to drink but I keep amusing myself so I keep going.


----------



## ISUCC

3 games tonight, unless Drake wins at home we're looking at another 0-3 night here

Drake vs Rider

UNI vs Grand Canyon

Valpo at Texas A & M

#MVCSucks LOL


----------



## Sycamore Proud

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> *
> Breaking News - Indianapolis: *
> 
> NCAA just announced the winner of the MVC Tournament in St. Louis will get an automatic bid to the NIT Tournament. The winner of the regular season and or the tournament has been effectively uninvited to the NCAA Tournament.
> 
> *MVC Commissioner Doug Elgin - Response *
> 
> Thank you for just inviting to be a part of the NCAA - we're glad to be here. Hopefully, Evansville or Drake can make the CBI Tournament, make a run and see an impact for years to come from just being invited to such a prestigious tournament.
> 
> *Sister Jean - Response *
> 
> I just don't know what to make of all this fame - we were just glad to be in the NCAA tournament last year, the Lord blessed us with that Final Four run and no one can take that away from us.
> 
> But... Loyola is going to be the next Notre Dame and we're planning on leaving the MVC and will no longer be affiliated with the conference. We hope to form a new Catholic Athletic Conference (CAC) in the future and will only allow Catholic schools to participate.
> 
> *Greg Lansing - Response *
> 
> I take full blame for this - we've gotta be tougher as a league.
> 
> *Barry Hinson - Response*
> 
> Our league is absolutely awful. Our commissioner is awful. Sister Jean is awful. My WIFE - My WIFE is better than all of you and she doesn't even know what basketball is. I'm tired of this. Merry Christmas!



Sometimes the truth hurts doesn't it?


----------



## ISUCC

Drake picks up a win over Rider, 

Valpo is losing big to Texas A & M

UNI is only down 4 to Grand Canyon, but I don't see them winning since they're not playing well


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Did UNI lose to Grand Freaking Tourist Attraction? I haven't looked to see?


----------



## ISUCC

UNI did lose to GCU, so the MVC goes 1-2 on the night


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

*Around The Valley 2018*



ISUCC said:


> UNI did lose to GCU, so the MVC goes 1-2 on the night



Ha. Nice!

Fans that say - “good job Drake thanks for getting the MVC a win”, are so awesome/special in many ways.


----------



## sycamore tuff

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> *
> Breaking News - Indianapolis: *
> 
> NCAA just announced the winner of the MVC Tournament in St. Louis will get an automatic bid to the NIT Tournament. The winner of the regular season and or the tournament has been effectively uninvited to the NCAA Tournament.
> 
> *MVC Commissioner Doug Elgin - Response *
> 
> Thank you for just inviting to be a part of the NCAA - we're glad to be here. Hopefully, Evansville or Drake can make the CBI Tournament, make a run and see an impact for years to come from just being invited to such a prestigious tournament.
> 
> *Sister Jean - Response *
> 
> I just don't know what to make of all this fame - we were just glad to be in the NCAA tournament last year, the Lord blessed us with that Final Four run and no one can take that away from us.
> 
> But... Loyola is going to be the next Notre Dame and we're planning on leaving the MVC and will no longer be affiliated with the conference. We hope to form a new Catholic Athletic Conference (CAC) in the future and will only allow Catholic schools to participate.
> 
> *Greg Lansing - Response *
> 
> I take full blame for this - we've gotta be tougher as a league.
> 
> *Barry Hinson - Response*
> 
> Our league is absolutely awful. Our commissioner is awful. Sister Jean is awful. My WIFE - My WIFE is better than all of you and she doesn't even know what basketball is. I'm tired of this. Merry Christmas!



The only exception to this ruling was that Indiana State would be allowed in the ncaa but it was found that they would have a hard time getting out of Terre Haute due to the street closings around Hulman Center.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamore tuff said:


> The only exception to this ruling was that Indiana State would be allowed in the ncaa but it was found that they would have a hard time getting out of Terre Haute due to the street closings around Hulman Center.



I forgot that part - thanks for reminding me!


----------



## Daveinth

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Ha. Nice!
> 
> Fans that say - “good job Drake thanks for getting the MVC a win”, are so awesome/special in many ways.



And people wonder why the interest has lagged in this site . Sorry brother when you Chastise every post it gets old some people myself included appreciate others  input and really have grown tired of the constant if you don't agree with me attitude your wrong attitude and just plain quit posting around here Because low and behold we don't agree with the great SSOM or one of his cronies . ISUCC thank you for the many updates .


----------



## ISUCC

Last night Illinois State got blown out at Central Florida, no surprise there

Big day for the MVC as 8 teams are playing, all are viewable one way or another. Can we break even at 4-4 or will it be another 0-fer Saturday for the MVC? I'm guessing we'll go 4-4 or 3-5

Arkansas Pine-Bluff at Missouri State

Southeastern Louisiana at Bradley

Colorado vs ISU in Hawaii

North Dakota at UNI

Winthrop at SIU

Loyola at St Joseph's 

Wisconsin Green Bay at Evansville

New Mexico State vs Drake in Las Vegas (NSMU is pretty good this year and nearly won at #1 Kansas)


----------



## ISUCC

it's a Christmas Miracle! The MVC has wins today from Bradley, Missouri State, UNI, and Indiana State!


----------



## ISUCC

Evansville picks up a big win over UW Green Bay, but Loyola loses on the last shot at St Joseph's, coulda used that win in Philly 

Just one more game, Drake plays New Mexico State at 7:30pm


----------



## ISUCC

Drake with a HUGE win over New Mexico State by 3! 
Looks like Drake and ISU will be the 2 MVC favorites heading into conference play


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> Drake with a HUGE win over New Mexico State by 3!
> Looks like Drake and ISU will be the 2 MVC favorites heading into conference play



Is it a huge win? I watched the last part of that game and Drake had no business winning. New Mexico State's staff should have been fired for not settling down their squad. Shooting 6 for 33 from beyond the arc. If the coaches don't tell those guys to take the ball to the basket against a small Drake team, they have no business coaching D1 ball. Laughable.


----------



## ISUCC

Jason Svoboda said:


> Is it a huge win? I watched the last part of that game and Drake had no business winning. New Mexico State's staff should have been fired for not settling down their squad. Shooting 6 for 33 from beyond the arc. If the coaches don't tell those guys to take the ball to the basket against a small Drake team, they have no business coaching D1 ball. Laughable.



I called it huge because NMSU is very good this year, nearly beating #1 Kansas at Kansas, and the WAC is barely behind the MVC in conference rankings. As bad as the MVC has been this year we'll take any good win we can get at this point


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

*Around The Valley 2018*



ISUCC said:


> I called it huge because NMSU is very good this year, nearly beating #1 Kansas at Kansas, and the WAC is barely behind the MVC in conference rankings. As bad as the MVC has been this year we'll take any good win we can get at this point



You’re amazing!

Scott - you’re incredible human and you have a great talent in ignoring anything/everything I have to say and I respect that greatly. 

But your “we” MVC mantra is sooo lame man. The MVC sucks and if you looked at your posts you’d think the MVC was having a banner year. 

More incredible - the Sycamores could shit the bed and you will literally lose your mind with them. “We can’t afford another 0-3 MTE” and yet you can carry so much positivity toward the MVC at-large. I’m not sure which is more important to you? The Sycamores being relevant? Or the MVC winning games and being relevant?


----------



## ISUCC

Drake plays San Diego today.


----------



## BrokerZ

ISUCC said:


> it's a Christmas Miracle! The MVC has wins today from Bradley, Missouri State, UNI, and Indiana State!



Southeastern Louisiana is one of the worst teams in all D1...like San Jose State bad. The fact that it took a last second three by Bradley to win that game at home says a lot.


----------



## ISUCC

BrokerZ said:


> Southeastern Louisiana is one of the worst teams in all D1...like San Jose State bad. The fact that it took a last second three by Bradley to win that game at home says a lot.



oh boy, didn't know that, well in that case at least Bradley won.


----------



## ISUCC

game times today are 4:30 for us, 7:30pm for Drake, vs San Diego


----------



## ISUCC

Drake is hanging around San Diego in the 2nd half in Las Vegas, down 5 on FS1


----------



## Bluethunder

Drake hits a 3 with 1.9 seconds to tie. On FS 1. 

Going to OT


----------



## ISUCC

Oh my! Drake ties it with a 3 at the buzzer! San Diego didn't foul! OT


----------



## ISUCC

Double OT


----------



## ISUCC

Looks like Drake wins in double OT, very nice win for Drake and the MVC.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> Looks like Drake wins in double OT, very nice win for Drake and the MVC.



This one is much nicer than yesterday. San Diego shot lights out and Drake matched them shot for shot. Hopefully they shoot their eyes out before league play.


----------



## ISUCC

The big question now is will any MVC teams creep back in to the mid major top 25 when the new poll comes out later today, right now we have 0 teams in the top 25!


----------



## ISUCC

MVC is up to 12th in the conference rankings, better but still not where we should be


----------



## ISUCC

Great news! There are now 3 MVC teams in the mid major top 25! Drake is 25th, Loyola is receiving votes and ISU is 44th!


----------



## meistro

Don’t mean to be a jerk, but how are we in the top 25 if we’re #44?


----------



## Sycamore Proud

ISUCC said:


> Great news! There are now 3 MVC teams in the mid major top 25! Drake is 25th, Loyola is receiving votes and ISU is 44th!



You are excited about being 44th in the top 25????


----------



## Gotta Hav

meistro said:


> Don’t mean to be a jerk, but how are we in the top 25 if we’re #44?



It could have been worded different, but I fully understand his intention. #recognition

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php


----------



## Gotta Hav

Sycamore Proud said:


> You are excited about being 44th in the top 25????



Wow.  He said GREAT NEWS.  He NEVER said he was so excited he was ready to shoot off fireworks and ring Church bells.

You keep this kind of SNIPING up, you're going to make someone's cronies list.  He's makin' a list, checkin' it twice...goin' find out who's sniping or nice...Hohoho!


----------



## ISUCC

yes, I was being sarcastic about my excitedness about being in the mid major poll. And I did word it wrong. Anyway, this new NET poll that the ncaa is supposedly using instead of RPI now is even worse.

here is the poll

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/net

The only teams inside the top 75 that are not BCS + Big East are Houston, Nevada, Gonzaga, Buffalo, San Francisco, Cincinnati, Lipscomb, Utah State, Belmont, North Texas, Fresno State, Central Florida, Furman, Murray State, Penn, VCU, UNC-Greensboro, Temple, Wofford, Charleston, Liberty, Toledo, Old Dominion, St Louis, and St Mary's. 

I wonder how many of these teams would get at large bids if they don't win their conference tourney? I don't really know the formula for how they come up with these new NET rankings? 

And looking at RPI, just us and Drake are top 100

*MVC NET rankings at this point*
100. Drake
112. Indiana State
121. Loyola
127. Southern Illinois
173. Evansville
190. Bradley
200. Illinois State
205. Valpo
230. Missouri State
249. Northern Iowa


----------



## Sycamorefan96

We're 31st in RPI. It's pretty easy to see why the NCAA uses the NET now. It basically puts the screws to mid majors.


----------



## TreeTop

Sycamorefan96 said:


> It's pretty easy to see why the NCAA uses the NET now. It basically puts the screws to mid majors.



I think the jury is still out on the NET.  Currently there about 7 or 8 mid majors in the top 50.  And Penn is 51st.


----------



## ISUCC

TreeTop said:


> I think the jury is still out on the NET.  Currently there about 7 or 8 mid majors in the top 50.  And Penn is 51st.



Of the "true" mid majors, (teams from conferences that will probably only get one bid), there are only about 20 or so in the top 75, and nearly all of them are outside the top 30. 

Nevada, 
Gonzaga, 
Buffalo, 
San Francisco, 
Lipscomb, 
Utah State, 
Belmont, 
North Texas, 
Fresno State, 
Furman, 
Murray State, 
Penn, 
VCU, 
UNC-Greensboro, 
Wofford, 
Charleston, 
Liberty, 
Toledo, 
Old Dominion,
St Mary's.


----------



## ISUCC

with the non conference schedule nearly over, here are the rest of the MVC games until we start MVC play, only 3 vs D1 teams

*Dec. 25th*
Indiana State vs TCU

*Dec. 29th*
Purdue Northwest at Valpo
McKendree at Drake
Stony Brook at Northern Iowa

*Dec. 30th*
Evansville at Miami (Ohio)
William Woods at Missouri State


----------



## ISUCC

From Drakenation, comparing RPI and NET

*NET          RPI       School                RPI-SOS  *

112           31     Indiana State             33  

100            34      Drake                      104

127          117      Southern Ill               88

121          148      Loyola                      74

200         175      Illinois State             147

249          182      Northern Iowa           50

190         214      Bradley                  297

173        238      Evansville              208

205         257      Valparaiso              308

230         283      Missouri State       306


----------



## Sycamore Proud

ISUCC said:


> with the non conference schedule nearly over, here are the rest of the MVC games until we start MVC play, only 3 vs D1 teams
> 
> *Dec. 25th*
> Indiana State vs TCU
> 
> *Dec. 29th*
> Purdue Northwest at Valpo
> McKendree at Drake
> Stony Brook at Northern Iowa
> 
> *Dec. 30th*
> Evansville at Miami (Ohio)
> William Woods at Missouri State




As I peruse these games I see only one that shouts out and says "you gotta see this one!".  Incidental that game is tonight 9:00 on ESPN 2.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

My MVC preseason picks now that almost everyone is wrapped up with their non-conference schedule.

1) Drake
2) Loyola
*3) ISU*
4) SIU
5) BU
6) ILST
7) UNI
8) MSU
9) UE
10) VU


----------



## Jason Svoboda

There isn't a single Valley team that is head and shoulders better than the rest like there has been for the greater part of a decade. If the league has ever sought parity, it's here this year. Whatever team gels the quickest and can play consistent ball will win it this year.


----------



## Gotta Hav

I think everyone should take a moment and be proud of your contributions on here, and for what it does to help our Beat Writer to create stories and generate thoughts for him to write.....

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/loc...cle_6c7adf4a-6562-599e-b046-2f970efd1886.html


----------



## sycamorebacker

Sycamorefan96 said:


> My MVC preseason picks now that almost everyone is wrapped up with their non-conference schedule.
> 
> 1) Drake
> 2) Loyola
> *3) ISU*
> 4) SIU
> 5) BU
> 6) ILST
> 7) UNI
> 8) MSU
> 9) UE
> 10) VU



I'll go with 1) ISU
              2) Loyola 
              3) Drake     as the top 3.


----------



## TreeTop

Gotta Hav said:


> I think everyone should take a moment and be proud of your contributions on here, and for what it does to help our Beat Writer to create stories and generate thoughts for him to write.....
> 
> https://www.tribstar.com/sports/loc...cle_6c7adf4a-6562-599e-b046-2f970efd1886.html



We're lucky to have a beat writer.  A Final Four team from our conference doesn't have one.  The Horizon league is chock full of schools without one.

As for a Valley prediction now that the non-con is just about complete for all Valley teams....

1) Indiana State 14-4
2) Bradley 10-8
3) SIU 10-8
4) Drake 10-8
5) Loyola 10-8
6) Illinois State 9-9
7) Valpo 9-9 
8) UNI 8-10
9) Evansville 6-12
10) MSU 4-14


----------



## Gotta Hav

TreeTop said:


> We're lucky to have a beat writer.  A Final Four team from our conference doesn't have one.  The Horizon league is chock full of schools without one.



You're creating an argument about nothing, or at the very least critiquing, a person's post...just for the sake of disputation.

Happy New Year TT


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

TreeTop said:


> We're lucky to have a beat writer.  A Final Four team from our conference doesn't have one.  The Horizon league is chock full of schools without one.
> 
> As for a Valley prediction now that the non-con is just about complete for all Valley teams....
> 
> 1) Indiana State 14-4
> 2) Bradley 10-8
> 3) SIU 10-8
> 4) Drake 10-8
> 5) Loyola 10-8
> 6) Illinois State 9-9
> 7) Valpo 9-9
> 8) UNI 8-10
> 9) Evansville 6-12
> 10) MSU 4-14



Besides the fact that our "beat writer" pretty much refuses to really ackowledge this place even on his DownInTheValley blog posts... He reads this forum to get a general idea of what fans are thinking - of course I'm sure he's got other ways to get a feel for how Sycamore nation is feeling about things but he most certainly doesn't avoid this place all together.


----------



## ISUCC

another good day for the MVC as Valpo beat Purdue Northwest and Drake beat McKendree, a team we also defeated

UNI plays Stony Brook at 8pm on ESPN3


----------



## ISUCC

Not MVC related, but did you all see Butler got destroyed at Florida today? And on their message board their fans are complaining because Butler isn't road tested.....hint...play TRUE road games Bulldogs, don't schedule patsies for all your non conference home games.

Kudos to Wisconsin for going on the road to play at WKU, where WKU won today


----------



## ISUCC

UNI is down 13 at home to Stony Brook, UNI isn't very good this year, we should not lose to them either time this year

Stony Brook wins easily at UNI. 

2 games tomorrow, UE and Missouri State play


----------



## ISUCC

two games today, evansville at 1pm, Missouri State at 6pm, both on ESPN+


----------



## ISUCC

Aces lose by 3 in Ohio, so the MVC finishes with a 58-57 record against D1 teams this season

Missouri State plays a non D1 team at 6


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> Aces lose by 3 in Ohio, so the MVC finishes with a 58-57 record against D1 teams this season
> 
> Missouri State plays a non D1 team at 6



Aces have been more competitive than I would have thought they'd be this year. Won't be easy to win down there.


----------



## ISUCC

MVC Play is here, it's all that matters now! Week one games

January 2nd

Illinois State at Valpo
Drake at Evansville
UNI at Bradley
Missouri State at Southern Illinois
Indiana State at Loyola

January 5th

Valpo at Missouri State
Bradley at Indiana State
Loyola at Drake
Evansville at Illinois State
Southern Illinois at UNI


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> MVC Play is here, it's all that matters now! Week one games
> 
> January 2nd
> 
> Illinois State at Valpo
> Drake at Evansville
> UNI at Bradley
> Missouri State at Southern Illinois
> Indiana State at Loyola
> 
> January 5th
> 
> Valpo at Missouri State
> Bradley at Indiana State
> Loyola at Drake
> Evansville at Illinois State
> Southern Illinois at UNI



I could see Illinois State and SIU being 2-0 after this week. Hopefully we will be as well.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

ISUCC said:


> MVC Play is here, it's all that matters now! Week one games
> 
> January 2nd
> 
> *Illinois State* at Valpo
> *Drake* at Evansville
> UNI at *Bradley*
> Missouri State at *Southern Illinois*
> *Indiana State *at Loyola
> 
> January 5th
> 
> Valpo at *Missouri State*
> Bradley at *Indiana State*
> Loyola at *Drake*
> Evansville at *Illinois State*
> *Southern Illinois* at UNI




My picks in *BOLD*.

At the end of Saturday's games I expect to see four 2-0 teams in Valley play.


----------



## ISUCC

Missouri State officially ends the MVC non conference slate with a big win over NAIA William Woods University by 50 points or so.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

ISUCC said:


> MVC Play is here, it's all that matters now! Week one games
> 
> January 2nd
> 
> *Illinois State* at Valpo
> *Drake* at Evansville
> UNI at *Bradley*
> Missouri State at *Southern Illinois*
> Indiana State at *Loyola*
> 
> January 5th
> 
> Valpo at *Missouri State*
> Bradley at *Indiana State*
> Loyola at *Drake*
> *Evansville* at Illinois State
> *Southern Illinois* at UNI



My picks in *bold*.


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> Missouri State officially ends the MVC non conference slate with a big win over NAIA William Woods University by 50 points or so.



I noticed several other mvc teams had to play non D1 teams this season. Glad it’s not just us.


----------



## Gotta Hav

ISUCC said:


> Missouri State officially ends the MVC non conference slate with a big win over NAIA William Woods University by 50 points or so.



When did William Woods become co-ed?


----------



## goindystate

William Woods went co-ed back in 1971


----------



## BrokerZ

I'm not sure what the full story is, but something is going on with Obediah Church at Missouri State.  He didn't play against William Woods, and he sat in the stands with his mom in street clothes instead of on the bench with the team.  Seems he may be quitting basketball altogether, or possibly transferring.  I know he's struggled with some injuries, but when healthy he's one of the most talented players in the Valley.  Will be interesting to see what happens with that situation with a team that already looks terrible.


----------



## pbutler218

BrokerZ said:


> I'm not sure what the full story is, but something is going on with Obediah Church at Missouri State.  He didn't play against William Woods, and he sat in the stands with his mom in street clothes instead of on the bench with the team.  Seems he may be quitting basketball altogether, or possibly transferring.  I know he's struggled with some injuries, but when healthy he's one of the most talented players in the Valley.  Will be interesting to see what happens with that situation with a team that already looks terrible.


How much eligibility does he have? Wasn't he high school teammate of Christian Williams? I  believe we offered him at the time.


----------



## Southgrad07

BrokerZ said:


> I'm not sure what the full story is, but something is going on with Obediah Church at Missouri State.  He didn't play against William Woods, and he sat in the stands with his mom in street clothes instead of on the bench with the team.  Seems he may be quitting basketball altogether, or possibly transferring.  I know he's struggled with some injuries, but when healthy he's one of the most talented players in the Valley.  Will be interesting to see what happens with that situation with a team that already looks terrible.



If he was a transfer he'd only have the back half of next season to play..At least I think that would be the case? Can't imagine any big school signing up for that and can't imagine he'd sit out that long just to play a dozen games at another mid major...


----------



## ISUCC

Watching the early game here, Drake at UE, UE has a nice crowd there, hope we get a nice crowd like that Saturday

I missed it, but apparently Nick Norton went down with a knee injury, THAT would be a KILLER for Drake if he's out

and here's your answer about Church, from the MSU board

https://247sports.com/college/missouri-state/Board/59468/Contents/Church-126951925/


----------



## ISUCC

I'm impressed with all the home crowds tonight at these MVC games


----------



## ISUCC

great games here on night one. 

Drake and UE coming down to the buzzer, a one point game

halftime scores
UNI 34, BU 24
SIU 39, MSU 31
ILS 26, VU 26

this Drake-UE game is GOOD! Tune in if you're not


----------



## Jason Svoboda

No post D being played by Evansville or Drake. McGlynn looks like an All-American with the matador D Evansville is employing.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> No post D being played by Evansville or Drake. McGlynn looks like an All-American with the matador D Evansville is employing.



Kid playing D for Evansville should have been given a call. The Drake PG just kept pushing him away. Sorry, that's an offensive foul. 10+ of them there.


----------



## ISUCC

Wow, OT, I knew they'd chuck up a 3 and miss


----------



## ISUCC

Double OT at UE, this time it was UE that attempted a bad 3 to win it, and missed

Aces win it in Double OT over Drake, who may have lost their go-to guy Nick Norton tonight.


----------



## meistro

Terrible uni won by 18 on the road.


----------



## ISUCC

Valpo just hit a ¾ court shot to beat ILS at the buzzer!! wow!!


----------



## ISUCC

So tonight

UE wins over Drake

SIU wins over MSU

UNI wins at Bradley

Loyola CRUSHES Indiana State

and Valpo with the miracle win over ILS


----------



## BrokerZ

Southgrad07 said:


> If he was a transfer he'd only have the back half of next season to play..At least I think that would be the case? Can't imagine any big school signing up for that and can't imagine he'd sit out that long just to play a dozen games at another mid major...



That's why I think he's just quitting basketball altogether.  He'd have to sit out a year and a half to play only a half of one season if he transferred.  The coaching change happened at the worst time for him.  At his point in his career he really didn't have much of a choice but to stay at MSU, and it seems he may be regretting that and possibly just walking away from the game.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Looks like Drake will take a hit with Norton out for the year with a knee injury.


----------



## ISUCC

All 10 teams in action Saturday

Bradley at Indiana State

Valpo at Missouri State

Loyola at Drake

Evansville at Illinois State

SIU at Northern Iowa


----------



## BrokerZ

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Looks like Drake will take a hit with Norton out for the year with a knee injury.



That is a huuuge loss for them. They looked like a really solid team up to this point. Will be interesting to see what they do from here.


----------



## Bluethunder

Valpo destroying MSU at MSu at the half. Up 22, 46-24. 

Valpo has already scored more in their first half then we may the whole game today.


----------



## ISUCC

winners today

Indiana State over Bradley

Valpo easily over Missouri State


----------



## ISUCC

Illinois State beat Evansville

Loyola beat Drake

Loyola 2-0 

SIU is at UNI on espn+ right now


----------



## ISUCC

SIU wins at UNI


----------



## ISUCC

The other games tonight

Drake is killing SIU

UNI and ILS are within 2 of each other

Evansville is killing Loyola

Valpo is killing Bradley


----------



## Southgrad07

Walter must be a hell of a coach! That roster doesnt have much talent at all...but what do you know if you coach em up you get results???


----------



## ISUCC

Southgrad07 said:


> Walter must be a hell of a coach! That roster doesnt have much talent at all...but what do you know if you coach em up you get results???



Yep, up 14 on Loyola in the 2nd half


----------



## ISUCC

The Aces are up TWENTY POINTS on Loyola now in the 2nd half! Wow! And we go there Saturday, LOL

Drake has control on SIU

ILS and UNI are in a close one

Valpo up 8 on Bradley


----------



## ISUCC

man, Illinois State is the luckiest team in the MVC tonight, up 3 with 6 seconds to go they FOULED AJ Green shooting a 3, he missed the first, hit the 2nd and 3rd. Then UNI fouls, the ILS player misses his FT with 1.5 seconds left, UNI rebound and nearly pulls the same thing Valpo did the other night to beat ILS, but the UNI shot was just off and ILS wins by 1

Drake beat SIU

Evansville beat Loyola (lord help us Saturday)

Valpo beat Bradley


----------



## ISUCC

so WHO saw THIS coming after the first 3 games in the MVC??

Valparaiso	  3-0		10-6
Illinois State	2-1		9-7
Loyola-Chicago	  2-1		9-7
Southern Illinois	    2-1		9-7
Evansville	    2-1		8-8
Drake	    1-2		12-4
Missouri State	  1-2		7-9
Northern Iowa	  1-2		6-10
Indiana State	   1-2		9-6
Bradley	  0-3		8-8


----------



## Gotta Hav

Gotta Hav said:


> Sure did.
> 
> Watched all of the SIU game and half of the Loyola game.  Kentucky with all of their All American McDonald's players stepped on the gas at the end, to pull away.  The final score does NOT reveal the competitiveness of this game.   *If SIU stays healthy....they're going to have a great season.  Kevion Pippen looked like he actually belonged on the Kentucky team.  *
> 
> Even though the Sportwriters said Furman STUNS Loyola, this was NOT an upset.  Furman won 23 games last year and has key parts of that team back.   Their workhorse inside is Matt Rafferty.  This kid has a head harder than a brick and plays like Robbie Hummel did at Purdue.  Just when you think he can't give anymore thing to win, he does. Our Devin Thomas and others on our team could learn or thing or two by playing like Rafferty or a Hummel.   Also, I'm sure there are some bigger schools that are kicking their own butts for not getting Clay Mounce on Furman's team.
> 
> Dude rocked a one-handed slam dunk to win the game for Furman.  Made #2 on Sports Center.




Q.  so WHO saw THIS coming after the first 3 games in the MVC??  

A.  duh...I wonder WHO that was?


----------



## Gotta Hav

Gotta Hav said:


> It looks like Bradley is going to lose to IUPUI...and not a in pretty way.  Bradley has THREE technical fouls!



Q.  so WHO saw THIS coming after the first 3 games in the MVC??  

A.  duh...I wonder WHO that was?


----------



## Gotta Hav

Gotta Hav said:


> *Us, and just for the record, I'm adding Valpo as good a chance as anybody.*
> 
> Their win over UNLV at UNLV was an eye opener....Derek Smits gets 20 points and 12 rebounds against a Runnin' Rebel team?  What the?
> 
> https://www.reviewjournal.com/sport...s-big-run-to-victory-over-unlv-72-64-1538035/   Scroll past the big ad to get to the story....



Q.  so WHO saw THIS coming after the first 3 games in the MVC??  

A.  duh...I wonder WHO that was?


----------



## Gotta Hav

Gotta Hav said:


> I left the ISU UNT game early.  Watched the end of the 1st half, and ALL of the 2nd half of the Misery State and Western Kentucky game.
> 
> *MSU WON....and if we can beat Missouri State HOME and AWAY...it will be a miracle.  They looked like MVC Champs tonight!
> *
> P.S.  Ryan Kreklow for the Bears, is now 32 and in his 15th Senior year!  Come on dude, GRADUATE!!!




Q.  so WHO saw THIS coming after the first 3 games in the MVC??  

A.  duh...I wonder WHO that was?


----------



## Gotta Hav

Gotta Hav said:


> Loyola LOST at HOME tonight against Testicle Tech...during every crunch moment..*.they had NO answer for TAYLER PERSONS...or* *anyone else on BSU's team.*



Q.  so WHO saw THIS coming after the first 3 games in the MVC??  

A.  duh...I wonder WHO that was?


----------



## Gotta Hav

Quote Originally Posted by *meistro * View Post
You said it was a heckuva game and isucc said it was a great win for Valpo. I’m glad Valpo won, but not an impressive win against a team that is now 2-8




Gotta Hav said:


> Grow up.   Did you watch the BSU EVANSVILLE game?  Maybe you should have instead of being some kinda HE SAID Ann Landers weirdo troublemaker.
> 
> Evansville's trouncing in the 2nd half of BSU was a GREAT WIN for them...
> 
> *It will interesting to see how the MVC season unfolds....EVANSVILLE was solid and on fire in the 2nd half, against a team with 4X's the talent...*.




Q. so WHO saw THIS coming after the first 3 games in the MVC?? 

A. duh...I wonder WHO that was?


----------



## ISUCC

Games today

Illinois State is losing at Loyola on EPSN2, pretty good crowd there

We are at UE

At 4pm, Valpo is at Southern Illinois

And at 8pm Missouri State is at Bradley


----------



## ISUCC

Loyola beats Illinois State

Indiana State beats UE in OT


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Valpo hangs on at SIU and improves to 4-0 in MVC play. Looks like maybe they are finally becoming the team everyone thought they would be when they were invited.


----------



## meistro

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Valpo hangs on at SIU and improves to 4-0 in MVC play. Looks like maybe they are finally becoming the team everyone thought they would be when they were invited.



The two newest members of the conference are first and second in the standings, with Loyola being the defending champs. Looks like the rest of the Valley needs to step up their game.


----------



## ISUCC

yeah, kinda the same as in the MVFC, the new teams have come in and taken over there as well

Bradley and Missouri State tipoff here in 5 minutes


----------



## ISUCC

Missouri State picks up their 2nd road win, beating Bradley 69-64, MSU is also now 2-2 in the MVC


----------



## pbutler218

ISUCC said:


> Missouri State picks up their 2nd road win, beating Bradley 69-64, MSU is also now 2-2 in the MVC



DaSilva for Missouri State is a heck of a player.


----------



## meistro

Looking at the standings and their remaining schedule, I’d say Valpo is in the early drivers seat. As bad as we’ve played, if we can start clicking, we can get right back in it. Looks like there’s gonna be a real battle to stay in the top 6 for about everybody but Valpo and Loyola.


----------



## ISUCC

I just looked at conference only stats, we went from leading the nation in 3 point percentage to dead effing last in MVC 3 point percentage, we're barely over 20% from 3 in conference games, what the heck??


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> I just looked at conference only stats, we went from leading the nation in 3 point percentage to dead effing last in MVC 3 point percentage, we're barely over 20% from 3 in conference games, what the heck??



That’s crazy. We’re struggling at times to get good looks, but also just missing open shots.


----------



## BrokerZ

ISUCC said:


> I just looked at conference only stats, we went from leading the nation in 3 point percentage to dead effing last in MVC 3 point percentage, we're barely over 20% from 3 in conference games, what the heck??



Teams are sending waves of taller defenders to face guard Barnes all game. It’s starting to work. Without him getting decent looks, our overall 3PT% suffers quite a bit. After him, Key is the only player I trust right now to take a 3. Without another player who’s even a remote threat from long range, there’s no doubt our shooting percentage suffers.


----------



## ISUCC

Drake plays at UNI at 4pm today on ESPN+


----------



## ISUCC

BrokerZ said:


> Teams are sending waves of taller defenders to face guard Barnes all game. It’s starting to work. Without him getting decent looks, our overall 3PT% suffers quite a bit. After him, Key is the only player I trust right now to take a 3. Without another player who’s even a remote threat from long range, there’s no doubt our shooting percentage suffers.



after 4 games we're shooting 21% from 3 point range. Next worst team is Missouri State at 30%, so we're not even close to 9th best from 3

We've also taken the fewest amount of 3's in MVC play (65)

our overall shooting percentage is 9th at 37%, just barely in front of Bradley at 35%


----------



## Sycamorefan96

UNI wins 57-54 over Drake to join the 6 way tie for 3rd place.


----------



## ISUCC

how many teams finish 9-9, I wouldn't be surprised to see 6-7 teams end at 9-9


----------



## BrokerZ

What is the tiebreaker for the standings after head to head now that RPI is no more? Is it NET?


----------



## Hooper

BrokerZ said:


> What is the tiebreaker for the standings after head to head now that RPI is no more? Is it NET?



Yes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thesou...6e52ab1f-c302-56a6-bc6f-12dcefe3225a.amp.html


----------



## Gotta Hav

Here's how far the Valley has fallen...Joe Lunardi has Valpo penciled in as a 15 Seed in the Midwest facing 2 Seed Kansas.

Reminder Valpo is penciled in...it could be any MVC team at this point..it is NOT me saying that snipers.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

Has any MVC Team before, or after the start of the MVC Tournament 29 years ago been a 15 Seed?

A 15 seed, that's just awful...but that's probably what the MVC deserves.


----------



## Buckhorn

The MVC is underrated...just a guess, but should rate just below SEC/ACC.


----------



## TreeTop

Gotta Hav said:


> Here's how far the Valley has fallen...Joe Lunardi has Valpo penciled in as a 15 Seed in the Midwest facing 2 Seed Kansas.
> 
> Reminder Valpo is penciled in...it could be any MVC team at this point..it is NOT me saying that snipers.
> 
> http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
> 
> Has any MVC Team before, or after the start of the MVC Tournament 29 years ago been a 15 Seed?
> 
> A 15 seed, that's just awful...but that's probably what the MVC deserves.



After all is said and done, our single-bid MVC entry into the tourney will not be a 15 seed.  14, quite possibly, but not a 15.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Buckhorn said:


> The MVC is underrated...just a guess, but should rate just below SEC/ACC.



It appears someone may be full of crap.  We'll see though when March Madness starts, and if a 14 or 15 Seed MVC team, can take down a 2 or 3 Seed.


----------



## BrokerZ

Gotta Hav said:


> Here's how far the Valley has fallen...Joe Lunardi has Valpo penciled in as a 15 Seed in the Midwest facing 2 Seed Kansas.
> 
> Reminder Valpo is penciled in...it could be any MVC team at this point..it is NOT me saying that snipers.
> 
> http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
> 
> Has any MVC Team before, or after the start of the MVC Tournament 29 years ago been a 15 Seed?
> 
> A 15 seed, that's just awful...but that's probably what the MVC deserves.



That has more to do with the fact it's Valpo than it does the MVC.  Lunardi automatically slots in the conference regular season leader in his bracket, and at this point it's a very low NET-rated Valpo team (ranked 171).  If it were Loyola (118) or another higher-rated team, it wouldn't be a 15 seed.

If Loyola gets in they'll be a 12.  Anyone else will most likely be a 13-14.


----------



## ISUCC

2 games tonight, SIU vs ILS on CBS Sports Network now

Valpo vs Loyola at 8pm on ESPN+


----------



## ISUCC

wow, SIU comes all the way back from down 16 in the 2nd half to tie ILS at 58, then Fayne hit one FT to give ILS the lead with 5 seconds left, then SIU turned the ball over trying to bring the ball up the court and lost the game


----------



## Buckhorn

"Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good"


----------



## ISUCC

and Loyola is destroying Valpo, so they will both have 1 loss


----------



## meistro

We win tomorrow and Saturday and we're at least tied for second. Very important week.


----------



## ISUCC

3 games tonight all at 8pm

ISU at UNI

Evansville at Missouri State

Drake at Bradley


----------



## ISUCC

All games at the half, UNI and Evansville have one point leads

Drake is killing Bradley


----------



## ISUCC

Winners tonight

Evansville won at MSU

Drake won at Bradley

UNI over Sycamores


----------



## Buckhorn

ISUCC said:


> Winners tonight
> 
> Evansville won at MSU
> 
> ------------------------------
> Bears went 11-22 from the line tonight to cut their own throat. IL State plays @ UE for 3rd Place in MVC Saturday. You'd think the conference would wanna be kicking UE's butt before next season's talent become eligible.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Not the Missouri Valley, but the Ohio Valley.

I went to the EIU / Murray State game tonight. Ja Morant for Murray State is projected to be a top 5 pick in the upcoming NBA draft and he is every bit as good as advertised. He's probably the best player I have ever watched play to be fair. His shooting is excellent, his passing is excellent, his dribbling is excellent, and look up his dunking ability. Just an all around phenomenal player. And it elevates their whole team.

Also Doug Elgin is an idiot. He should be doing whatever it takes to get them into the league. If we're ever going to get 2 bids in the tournament again we need a consistently strong program in the league. Murray State without a doubt would run away with the MVC this year and I honestly believe that they could very easily make a Sweet 16 run this year.


----------



## ISUCC

that dunk Morant had last night at EIU, was INCREDIBLE! The announcer did NOT do it justice! That was Michael Jordan type stuff!


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Highlights from last night's game.


----------



## ISUCC

3 games today, 

Loyola at Indiana State

Illinois State at Evansville

UNI at Valpo


----------



## ISUCC

Illinois State beat Evansville

ISU lost to Loyola

UNI and Valpo on ESPN3 right now


----------



## ISUCC

Valpo beat UNI tonight


----------



## ISUCC

LOL, Bradley wins at SIU for the first time since 2013, and the first time this MVC season, they're 1-5 in MVC play

Drake beat Missouri State


----------



## ISUCC

here are the standings after 6 games

LOYOLA  5-1
VALPARAISO  5-1
ILLINOIS STATE  4-2
EVANSVILLE  3-3
UNI  3-3
DRAKE  3-3
SOUTHERN ILLINOIS  2-4
MISSOURI STATE  2-4
INDIANA STATE  2-4
BRADLEY  1-5


----------



## Hooper

ISUCC said:


> LOL, Bradley wins at SIU for the first time since 2013, and the first time this MVC season, they're 1-5 in MVC play
> 
> Drake beat Missouri State



Twitter comment meltdowns for your viewing pleasure:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SIU_Basketball/status/1087122487463370758


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Everyone on SIU's board wants Hinson gone. The following comment I saw on SIU's board is exactly how I've felt about the Sycamores for a few years now sadly.

"I have always continued to have hope up to the end of last year and now this year.  I can't really take the continued frustration and disappointment but don't want to stop supporting and following the Salukis.  So I have adopted a new outlook.  I just assume and expect that we are going to lose every game.  That way when we do I'm not disappointed or frustrated because it is what I expect with the current coaching situation.  I anticipate we will lose to Bradley, so if we do actually win I will pleasantly surprised.  That seems sad but about the only way I can continue watching at this point."


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Apparently Bradley and SIU are in the OVC now according to ESPN. At least get the conference's right!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=401089281


----------



## Hooper

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Apparently Bradley and SIU are in the OVC now according to ESPN. At least get the conference's right!
> 
> http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=401089281



Not unprecedented:

https://mobile.twitter.com/PostinsPostcard/status/1027721373580492800


----------



## Southgrad07

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Everyone on SIU's board wants Hinson gone. The following comment I saw on SIU's board is exactly how I've felt about the Sycamores for a few years now sadly.
> 
> "I have always continued to have hope up to the end of last year and now this year.  I can't really take the continued frustration and disappointment but don't want to stop supporting and following the Salukis.  So I have adopted a new outlook.  I just assume and expect that we are going to lose every game.  That way when we do I'm not disappointed or frustrated because it is what I expect with the current coaching situation.  I anticipate we will lose to Bradley, so if we do actually win I will pleasantly surprised.  That seems sad but about the only way I can continue watching at this point."



If you would of sat any hoops fan down in 2008-9 and said ok in just 10 years SIU will be a middling valley program with big time financial troubles and Loyola of Chicago will be coming off a final four and set up with facilities/ talent to win for the foreseeable future..What do you think the response would of been? Just goes to show you how one or two moves in an administration can change everything regardless of past success.

 That's partly why the woh is me crowd here at State get under my skin. We haven't given the community anything to consistently get excited about here in 20 years. The Odum years were nice (and you saw a spike in attendance due to it) but we never even sniffed a valley championship or won a single postseason tournament game during his time here. Not to poo poo that time period, but lets not act like we were the talk of the country or hell even the valley.. I think if we had the right guy in place with the right administration supporting it.... people would be surprised at the response from the community.


----------



## meistro

Southgrad07 said:


> If you would of sat any hoops fan down in 2008-9 and said ok in just 10 years SIU will be a middling valley program with big time financial troubles and Loyola of Chicago will be coming off a final four and set up with facilities/ talent to win for the foreseeable future..What do you think the response would of been? Just goes to show you how one or two moves in an administration can change everything regardless of past success.
> 
> That's partly why the woh is me crowd here at State get under my skin. We haven't given the community anything to consistently get excited about here in 20 years. The Odum years were nice (and you saw a spike in attendance due to it) but we never even sniffed a valley championship or won a single postseason tournament game during his time here. Not to poo poo that time period, but lets not act like we were the talk of the country or hell even the valley.. I think if we had the right guy in place with the right administration supporting it.... people would be surprised at the response from the community.



Good points. To the point of an administration making one or two moves that can change the trajectory of a program. You need to look no farther than Butler. For years they were a door mat program. They hired a good AD and coach, and when that coach left, they hired another good coach. In contrast, look what ISU has done after success in the past 40 years.


----------



## 4Q_iu

meistro said:


> Good points. To the point of an administration making one or two moves that can change the trajectory of a program. You need to look no farther than Butler. For years they were a door mat program. They hired a good AD and coach, and when that coach left, they hired another good coach. In contrast, look what ISU has done after success in the past 40 years.




Which AD is that? Bill Sylvester? John Parry or Barry Collier?

Remember, EVERY coach Butler has had in the past 19 seasons have ALL been former Butler assistants - all of em…

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't HCGL a former Sycamore assistant?

And Butler would have NEVER had the success they've had if they'd spent the past 43 seasons in the Valley, hell, even the MAC


----------



## meistro

4Q_iu said:


> Which AD is that? Bill Sylvester? John Parry or Barry Collier?
> 
> Remember, EVERY coach Butler has had in the past 19 seasons have ALL been former Butler assistants - all of em…
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't HCGL a former Sycamore assistant?
> 
> And Butler would have NEVER had the success they've had if they'd spent the past 43 seasons in the Valley, hell, even the MAC



I believe it was Collier.


----------



## sycamore tuff

4Q_iu said:


> Which AD is that? Bill Sylvester? John Parry or Barry Collier?
> 
> Remember, EVERY coach Butler has had in the past 19 seasons have ALL been former Butler assistants - all of em…
> 
> *Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't HCGL a former Sycamore assistant?*
> 
> And Butler would have NEVER had the success they've had if they'd spent the past 43 seasons in the Valley, hell, even the MAC



Yes, but apparently he was not a good student of the best coach we've had in the last 40 years.  He does like to throw the name around like he worships at the Waltman alter.


----------



## Hooper

sycamore tuff said:


> Yes, but apparently he was not a good student of the best coach we've had in the last 40 years.  He does like to throw the name around like he worships at the Waltman alter.




Lansing has a higher win percentage at ISU than Waltman did.  And Waltman started losing once he lost the guys Lansing recruited.  Royce even said it himself on his way out the door "we made some mistakes in recruiting."


https://www.tribstar.com/sports/loc...cle_9fe6dbe3-ce2c-5460-a4b1-d2bab0066004.html

_“I’m very proud of what we did so quickly, but we failed. We were in a position to build on what we had and we didn’t. There’s nobody to blame for that except myself,” Waltman said. “We made some recruiting errors and some mistakes. I’m embarrassed by that.”_

Lansing's comeback year with Royce, 2007, saw a tie for the most wins and most conference wins since the 2000-2001 season.  It was admittedly bad (5 MVC wins and 13 overall) but still tied for most for Royce in the post Menser/Renn years.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> Lansing has a higher win percentage at ISU than Waltman did.  And Waltman started losing once he lost the guys Lansing recruited.  Royce even said it himself on his way out the door "we made some mistakes in recruiting."
> 
> 
> https://www.tribstar.com/sports/loc...cle_9fe6dbe3-ce2c-5460-a4b1-d2bab0066004.html
> 
> _“I’m very proud of what we did so quickly, but we failed. We were in a position to build on what we had and we didn’t. There’s nobody to blame for that except myself,” Waltman said. “We made some recruiting errors and some mistakes. I’m embarrassed by that.”_
> 
> Lansing's comeback year with Royce, 2007, saw a tie for the most wins and most conference wins since the 2000-2001 season.  It was admittedly bad (5 MVC wins and 13 overall) but still tied for most for Royce in the post Menser/Renn years.



Lansing was an ass't for Dillard for 2 seasons; Waltman - 3 seasons, McKenna - 3 seasons; he's now in his 9th season as the HC:
Here are the overall & conf records and the avg conf finish; a conf tie was factored as that place plus half, i.e. a T-5th was "worth" 5.5 points

 As HC


  Overall                  MVC                      Avg MVC Finish
  143-134  .516        75-75     .500          4.8


  McKenna
  43-52     .453        24-30     .444          7.2


  Waltman
  44-41     .518        25-29     .463          6.8


  Dillard
  22-32     .407        13-25     .342          8.8

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Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Block Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Hyperlink"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="FollowedHyperlink"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Document Map"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Plain Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="E-mail Signature"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Top of Form"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Bottom of Form"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal (Web)"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Acronym"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Address"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Cite"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Code"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Definition"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Keyboard"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Preformatted"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Sample"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Typewriter"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Variable"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal Table"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation subject"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="No List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Contemporary"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Elegant"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Professional"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Subtle 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Subtle 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Balloon Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="Table Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Theme"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Placeholder Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Revision"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" QFormat="true"    Name="List Paragraph"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Quote"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" QFormat="true"    Name="Subtle Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" QFormat="true"    Name="Subtle Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Bibliography"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="41" Name="Plain Table 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="42" Name="Plain Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="43" Name="Plain Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="44" Name="Plain Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="45" Name="Plain Table 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="40" Name="Grid Table Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="Grid Table 1 Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful 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----------



## Jason Svoboda

All of the back and forth is well and good, but I've gotten to the point where I no longer want to watch Indiana State basketball. 

I no longer look forward to the games.

I no longer schedule my evenings around the games. 

I'm not even tempted to look at live stats if I'm out and about. 

If I make it home and have nothing to do, I'll watch. But I think you guys can even tell I'm disconnected as I no longer do play-by-play or even frequent updates. I basically just casually observe and wait for us to trip on our own dicks game after game. 

If you've forced and made a diehard lose the lovin' feeling, what damage has been done to Joe and Jane Casual?


----------



## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> All of the back and forth is well and good, but I've gotten to the point where I no longer want to watch Indiana State basketball.
> 
> I no longer look forward to the games.
> 
> I no longer schedule my evenings around the games.
> 
> I'm not even tempted to look at live stats if I'm out and about.
> 
> If I make it home and have nothing to do, I'll watch. But I think you guys can even tell I'm disconnected as I no longer do play-by-play or even frequent updates. I basically just casually observe and wait for us to trip on our own dicks game after game.
> 
> If you've forced and made a diehard lose the lovin' feeling, what damage has been done to Joe and Jane Casual?



I get it.  Fo sho.

I still enjoy watching, but it gets tougher and tougher.  Especially when you have friends/family who follow a team (or teams) that are perennial winners.


----------



## Hooper

TreeTop said:


> I get it.  Fo sho.
> 
> I still enjoy watching, but it gets tougher and tougher.  Especially when you have friends/family who follow a team (or teams) that are perennial winners.



The two perennial powers with concomitant insufferable fan bases here in Indy are IU and Butler.  We beat both last time we played them.  One reason (there’s more than one) I’m one of the few Lansing supporters left on here is that I have to live with, socializie with, and work with IU and Butler people here in Indy every single day.  I am extremely proud and immensely enjoy reminding both fan bases we beat them both last time they played, and if they want to change that they need to stop being chicken #$&*’s and schedule us.  And folks, I’m telling you, beating IU and Butler here and there we get respect statewide.

Give GL the rest of his contract to do this.  If we’re Thursday teams this year and next, he probably knows what’s coming.  A lot of MVC seniors are gone after this year (though DaSilva is back, ugh) and we could really make a run.  Hang in there!


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> The two perennial powers with concomitant insufferable fan bases here in Indy are IU and Butler.  We beat both last time we played them.  One reason (there’s more than one) I’m one of the few Lansing supporters left on here is that I have to live with, socializie with, and work with IU and Butler people here in Indy every single day.  I am extremely proud and immensely enjoy reminding both fan bases we beat them both last time they played, and if they want to change that they need to stop being chicken #$&*’s and schedule us.  And folks, I’m telling you, beating IU and Butler here and there we get respect statewide.



butler has little reason to be insufferable, considering how bad they were for so long; easier to respect them if their recent success had originated in a better conference but they were a "big fish" in a tiny puddle

as to the other group of red-clad pricks -- they're delusional


----------



## meistro

I notice on MVCfans they're constantly talking about expansion. At this point, Elgin needs to concentrate on the teams we have and find a way to make them better. This is sure a down year league wide. IMO, I'd only expand to 11 and keep the round robin schedule. It's only gonna get harder to find quality teams for mid majors to play. What's everybody else think?


----------



## sycamorebacker

meistro said:


> Good points. To the point of an administration making one or two moves that can change the trajectory of a program. You need to look no farther than Butler. For years they were a door mat program. They hired a good AD and coach, and when that coach left, they hired another good coach. In contrast, look what ISU has done after success in the past 40 years.



I guess one could say Butler moved up from mid-major to high major.  That's very difficult to do; and few teams are able to pull it off.  They have done pretty well for several years at recruiting Indiana players that could play and they play very aggressively.  
Most of the teams in Indiana this year, including Butler, are very average.  I think Indiana schools struggle to get enough good players to stay consistently at the top of their respective conferences.  
Tonight, IU is 9th in the big ten and ND is next to last in the ACC.


----------



## pbutler218

Loyola getting trounced by Missouri State. What the heck?? I believe Williamson was out injured and they only scored 35 points for the entire game.


----------



## meistro

This conference is crazy. Stay out of the play in game and anything is possible.


----------



## Westbadenboy

4Q --- we all love beating IU and Butler.  But neither of those victories have gained us any respect.  Probably just frustrated all of us even more.  And feeds the apathy among fans -- both student and Terre Haute residents.  A win here or there may provoke a lot of cheering and a chance to rub it in to the big guys but as you've noticed I assume they've done nothing to elevate our overall program ….or gain any more respect.

Nice crowd on Saturday and played overall pretty well against a good team; even with a loss folks seemed glad they'd came …...but did you see the crowd tonight against Valpo ?   Actually in the stands, looked like maybe 900 -- 1200.


----------



## Buckhorn

pbutler218 said:


> Loyola getting trounced by Missouri State.



Does UE's McCarty believe he'll impact MVC officiating after Wednesday's game in Des Moines?

https://www.courierpress.com/story/...-off-officiating-after-loss-drake/2660378002/


----------



## Buckhorn

Just received his MVC one-game suspension:

https://www.courierpress.com/story/...ter-mccarty-could-draw-suspension/2668205002/

While listening to Talk Radio Sports, they mentioned tonight's OVC matchup of Belmont @ Murray St., where 30 NBA scouts are expected to be watching Morant. Also they said a private Charlotte Hornets jet landed late afternoon in Murray, KY. 
Has the MVC ever offered the Racers a bid to the conference? Missing out on an opportunity.

https://www.murrayledger.com/sports...cle_086166b6-1f8d-11e9-8f13-879f32053aae.html

With Kemba Walker's contract up this year, maybe Jordan has another card up his sleeve? 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...interested-michael-jordan-wants-to-re-sign-pg


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Buckhorn said:


> Just received his MVC one-game suspension:
> 
> Has the MVC ever offered the Racers a bid to the conference? Missing out on an opportunity.



At least someone called them out. MVC officiating does suck. I know their job is difficult, but a lot of the calls are Boys Club quality at best. 

Murray State was a finalist in 2017, but Valpo was chosen over them. The rumor is that the MVC wanted to go to 12, but Belmont wouldn't join. The MVC is not willing to do 11 citing difficult scheduling. In my opinion it's time to give Northern Kentucky a serious look and add them along with Murray State.


----------



## Prisonmate

The league’s refusal to add Murray State is infuriating and frustrating. Poor leadership. I’ll leave it at that.


----------



## Hooper

Isn't it the respective presidents of the member institutions that vote to add MVC members?  Of course I'm sure they rely on data and advice given to them by ADs and MVC brass/Elgin. 

Knowing how University Presidents think, when they see a chunk of that NCAA pool money going away because the pie needs to have one or two more slices my guess is that's the rub.  They're probably also being told that most years for the foreseeable future, the MVC is a one-bid, one-and-done  league and runs like Loyola's (and all the money that come with it) will be extreme outliers in this post-Wichita world.  Also, for schools/programs that use the 400 mile rule Murray would be an added flight for a lot of budgets.

I agree it would be a good add...I'm just playing devil's advocate as to why i think it isn't happening.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

A conference gets approximately $1,670,000 per NCAA tournament game over a 6 year period.

So in a one and done year ISU is going to get $167,000 over 6 years. If there were 11 teams we would get $151,818. If there were 12 teams we would get $139,166. 

So if the MVC added 2 schools we would lose $27,834 over a 6 year period. I'm pretty sure everyone in the MVC can afford that loss and if Murray State actually won a tournament game then they would more than pay for themselves. I think Elgin and the university presidents need to think outside the box a little bit. What do we have to lose at this point?

In comparison ISU gets around $400,000 per year for playing FBS opponents in football. Everyone hypes up this NCAA money way too much.


----------



## TreeTop

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I'm pretty sure everyone in the MVC can afford that loss and if Murray State actually won a tournament game then they would more than pay for themselves.



Murray State hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2012 and they've never made it past the 2nd round.

With that said, I'm neither for nor against Murray State joining the Valley.


----------



## meistro

Hooper said:


> Isn't it the respective presidents of the member institutions that vote to add MVC members?  Of course I'm sure they rely on data and advice given to them by ADs and MVC brass/Elgin.
> 
> Knowing how University Presidents think, when they see a chunk of that NCAA pool money going away because the pie needs to have one or two more slices my guess is that's the rub.  They're probably also being told that most years for the foreseeable future, the MVC is a one-bid, one-and-done  league and runs like Loyola's (and all the money that come with it) will be extreme outliers in this post-Wichita world.  Also, for schools/programs that use the 400 mile rule Murray would be an added flight for a lot of budgets.
> 
> I agree it would be a good add...I'm just playing devil's advocate as to why i think it isn't happening.



Exactly. And, while I've been in favor of adding teams in the past, I'm not so sure now. With Murray this year, we'd still be a one bid league. The best thing about adding another school would be in scheduling, by going to a 20 game conference season. That's why I would be in favor of only going to 11 so we still have the round robin format. The bigger thing on Elgins plate should be finding a way to get MVC schools good again.


----------



## Prisonmate

TreeTop said:


> Murray State hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2012 and they've never made it past the 2nd round.
> 
> With that said, I'm neither for nor against Murray State joining the Valley.



Murray State has won 2 NCAA games this decade. This would place them T-2nd with current MVC membership.

Murray State has 2 teams ranked in the top 25 this decade. This would place them T-1st with current MVC membership.

Murray State has produced 3 NBA'ers this decade. This would place them 1st with current MVC membership. 

Murray State is averaging over 4800 in attendance. This would place them 4th. Judging by their crowd in Evansville and what I saw in St Louis, their conference tournament attendance would be 1st. 

They've never advanced past the 2nd round because they ran into a national champion (1988) and national runner-up (2010). Both 1 possession losses. Playing from OVC 14 and 13 seeds. 

But we need to save $27k or whatever.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Hooper said:


> Isn't it the respective presidents of the member institutions that vote to add MVC members?  Of course I'm sure they rely on data and advice given to them by ADs and MVC brass/Elgin.
> 
> Knowing how University Presidents think, when they see a chunk of that NCAA pool money going away because the pie needs to have one or two more slices my guess is that's the rub.  They're probably also being told that most years for the foreseeable future, the MVC is a one-bid, one-and-done  league and runs like Loyola's (and all the money that come with it) will be extreme outliers in this post-Wichita world.  Also, for schools/programs that use the 400 mile rule Murray would be an added flight for a lot of budgets.
> 
> I agree it would be a good add...I'm just playing devil's advocate as to why i think it isn't happening.



A lot of people involved with college athletics believe there will be a correction coming in the near future. It is possible the MVC is holding out hope of St. Louis and/or Dayton coming to the Valley when it just isn't worth the hassle of the A10. The A10 media deal expires in 2020 I believe. As that deal sat, they split $5m or about $350k each for their media deal. I expect that number to be similar or lower when it expires since they now have the ESPN+ deal like every conference does. 

Just look at UConn. That sort of thing is going to become more common outside of the P5 because the media dollars are drying up for those lower conferences due to cord cutting. UConn went from a subsidy of $6.5m in 2008 to $41m in 2018. That's absolutely insane. 

I think Elgin's dream is to somehow convince Dayton and Saint Louis to join the Valley in the years to come. Both schools would save considerable money making the move to the Valley. As revenue streams dry up, the brass would be negligent at their job if they didn't look at the option.


----------



## meistro

Jason Svoboda said:


> A lot of people involved with college athletics believe there will be a correction coming in the near future. It is possible the MVC is holding out hope of St. Louis and/or Dayton coming to the Valley when it just isn't worth the hassle of the A10. The A10 media deal expires in 2020 I believe. As that deal sat, they split $5m or about $350k each for their media deal. I expect that number to be similar or lower when it expires since they now have the ESPN+ deal like every conference does.
> 
> Just look at UConn. That sort of thing is going to become more common outside of the P5 because the media dollars are drying up for those lower conferences due to cord cutting. UConn went from a subsidy of $6.5m in 2008 to $41m in 2018. That's absolutely insane.
> 
> I think Elgin's dream is to somehow convince Dayton and Saint Louis to join the Valley in the years to come. Both schools would save considerable money making the move to the Valley. As revenue streams dry up, the brass would be negligent at their job if they didn't look at the option.



That would be great if he could do that. What's the A10 this year, 2 bids?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

meistro said:


> That would be great if he could do that. What's the A10 this year, 2 bids?



At the most, I'd think. 

Not a single A10 school has beat a ranked opponent this year - 0-14 against AP Top 25. The MVC is 0-6.


----------



## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> I think Elgin's dream is to somehow convince Dayton and Saint Louis to join the Valley in the years to come. Both schools would save considerable money making the move to the Valley. As revenue streams dry up, the brass would be negligent at their job if they didn't look at the option.



I don't know how much of a reality this could actually become, but this scenario would be ideal.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> I don't know how much of a reality this could actually become, but this scenario would be ideal.



Yeah, I can't answer it, either but I'd venture a guess they're operating at a similar subsidy if not higher than the A10 schools that did report because they don't get state G funds and they have much higher travel costs. Look at UMass at the link below and they are going to implode before much longer -- no way they can keep dropping $40m from student fees and school funds yearly. UConn reported over $7m in travel costs alone in some of the pieces on their financial issues.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances


----------



## Hooper

Sycamorefan96 said:


> A conference gets approximately $1,670,000 per NCAA tournament game over a 6 year period.
> 
> So in a one and done year ISU is going to get $167,000 over 6 years. If there were 11 teams we would get $151,818. If there were 12 teams we would get $139,166.
> 
> So if the MVC added 2 schools we would lose $27,834 over a 6 year period. I'm pretty sure everyone in the MVC can afford that loss and if Murray State actually won a tournament game then they would more than pay for themselves. I think Elgin and the university presidents need to think outside the box a little bit. What do we have to lose at this point?
> 
> In comparison ISU gets around $400,000 per year for playing FBS opponents in football. Everyone hypes up this NCAA money way too much.



There's other sources of NCAA-to-Conference dollars.  The latest data from the NCAA is old, but back then it was 10 mil to the MVC. 

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2011-12+Division+I+Total+Revenue+Distribution.pdf

 So for simplicity's sake call it a 9% haircut that would have to be made up if you add a team, plus add in all the extra expense for travel to Murray or Cincy...which I already noted would be by airplane for lots of programs.  Where does Murray or NKU make up for it?  Arch Madness attendance?  No.  A possible tourney run? That's a dubious gamble. 

 It can't be TV because ESPN Plus is a package contract with the MVC.  Maybe, maybe Murray brings in enough subscribers to give the MVC leverage to negotiate a better deal but I doubt it.  Based on what I watch on ESPN Plus and ESPN 3 ads aren't exactly selling like hotcakes.  It's the same ads over and over and over, and half of them are self-serving ESPN promos, not private companies paying to market their products.  That should tell you something about demand.

All the Presidents see is the potential revenue loss/added expense of adding Murray....otherwise they'd do it.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I have concerns about adding 2 privates and 0 public.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Sycamore Proud said:


> Maybe I'm paranoid, but I have concerns about adding 2 privates and 0 public.



*?*


----------



## Sycamore Proud

sycamore tuff said:


> *?*




IIRC the Valley has 5 private schools and 5 state supporfted schools.  Dayton and St. Louis are both private schools I believe.  I am concerned about the "balance of power" if there are 5 state supported schools and 7 private schools.  Like I said, maybe I'm paranoid.  It was suggested that this compbination of schools for expaqnsion wqs believed to be favored by NVC brass/Elgin.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamore Proud said:


> IIRC the Valley has 5 private schools and 5 state supporfted schools.  Dayton and St. Louis are both private schools I believe.  I am concerned about the "balance of power" if there are 5 state supported schools and 7 private schools.  Like I said, maybe I'm paranoid.  It was suggested that this compbination of schools for expaqnsion wqs believed to be favored by NVC brass/Elgin.




You noted your paranoia/concern but why exactly are you paranoid about?  That 7 private; 3 Catholic - Loyola, Dayton & St Louis, 1 Lutheran - Valparaiso, 1 "Methodist" - Evansville and 2 Secular - Bradley & Drake will somehow dominate the Valley?  You fear a "Balkanization" of the Valley?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

The fear, I'd presume, is that these privates are typically non-football schools that end up putting a ton of cash into their hoops program. For example, if Dayton and Saint Louis walked into the Valley, they'd be the top spenders by over $4m. They basically fund where Wichita State funded hoops. 

You add enough of these schools and Indiana State is priced out of the action. We've complained about being a middle of the pack school as it is with a low budget. Wait until your budget is dwarfed by everyone and you're suddenly only middle of the pack every once in awhile.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

4Q_iu said:


> You noted your paranoia/concern but why exactly are you paranoid about?  That 7 private; 3 Catholic - Loyola, Dayton & St Louis, 1 Lutheran - Valparaiso, 1 "Methodist" - Evansville and 2 Secular - Bradley & Drake will somehow dominate the Valley?  You fear a "Balkanization" of the Valley?



It's actually my weird way of looking at the situation.  It has to do with $$$.  And it really doesn't make any difference because ISU will be the bottom rung of the financial ladder in any case.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Jason Svoboda said:


> The fear, I'd presume, is that these privates are typically non-football schools that end up putting a ton of cash into their hoops program. For example, if Dayton and Saint Louis walked into the Valley, they'd be the top spenders by over $4m. They basically fund where Wichita State funded hoops.
> 
> You add enough of these schools and Indiana State is priced out of the action. We've complained about being a middle of the pack school as it is with a low budget. Wait until your budget is dwarfed by everyone and you're suddenly only middle of the pack every once in awhile.



Yes, what he said.  It just won't be a level playing field.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Another thing with Murray State is that during their good years they are the Wichita State of their league. Most OVC schools have very bad attendance's, but they seem (especially this year) to show when the Racers are in town. Imagine if ISU hosted them this year and got 6000 to show instead of 2000. 4000X8 is $32,000 extra in ticket revenue. In other words we didn't even lose money on bringing them into the league. We earned $5000 and that would be in one year, over a 6 year period of losing $27,000. This is the "outside of the box" thinking I'm talking about. Yes, winning consistently brings in people to your games, but bringing in good competition also brings in people to your games. People weren't showing up to those Wichita games to see ISU. They may have been rooting for ISU, but they came to see Wichita.

Also St Louis and Dayton are nice thoughts, but they aren't happening. Both want an upgrade to the Big East, not a so called downgrade to the MVC. And if they don't get the Big East they still get the east coast bias for being in a typically good east coast conference. Dayton is also less likely to happen than SLU by far. They would be an outlier in our league.


----------



## sycamorebacker

This is a special year for them.  They have a potential top 5 draft pick on their team.  (I apologize if this has been mentioned earlier)


----------



## Prisonmate

sycamorebacker said:


> This is a special year for them.  They have a potential top 5 draft pick on their team.  (I apologize if this has been mentioned earlier)



Lottery picks aren’t anything new in Murray. They had one in 2015, won 25 in a row, and lost at the buzzer in the OVC Final.

In 2012, they lost 1 regular season game and grabbed a 6-seed in the NCAA Tournament. Hosted Gameday when Saint Mary’s came to town.

In 2010, they won in Round 1 before losing by a bucket to national runner-up Butler in Round 2.

Murray has a long history of success that’s only amplified this decade. Multiple sources reported they brought 5k for the OVC Tournament last year. St Louis would look a lot different with a new #1 fan base, that’s for sure.


----------



## rapala

After watching their game the other night, maybe the Shockers would like to come back.


----------



## Buckhorn

Marshall's in the same boat as UNI's Jacobsen now & should've jumped ship when the get'n was good!


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Real question. Is MO State's defense actually that good? This is the second straight game they've kept their opponents to under 40 points! They just beat Bradley 55-37.


----------



## Buckhorn

The Bears FG% dropped 30 pts from Wednesday's Loyola game to today (65%-35%), so they really didn't have too many other options. 

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401089288


----------



## ISUCC

today in the MVC

Missouri State easily beat Bradley, Bradley didn't even score 40 points

Drake over Valpo

UNI and Evansville are still playing, close game


----------



## ISUCC

Standings after the Panthers beat the Aces tonight

Loyola-Chicago	  5-2
Valparaiso	  5-3
Drake	  5-3
Illinois State	  4-3
Missouri State	  4-4
Northern Iowa	  4-4
Southern Illinois	  3-4
Indiana State	  3-4
Evansville	  3-5
Bradley	  2-6  

Win tomorrow and we're right in the thick of things, lose and we're in the hunt to play on Thursday.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I picked Drake to win the league right before the conference season started. I'm not sure they'll win the MVC, but I still think they are the best team in the league this year. Losing their best player hurt them initially, but they've won their last 4 games by 11 or more points. They'll be a tough out in St Louis and personally I think they have the best shot of winning a NCAA tournament game if they were to make it.


----------



## sycamorebacker

ISUCC said:


> Win tomorrow and we're right in the thick of things, lose and we're in the hunt to play on Thursday.



I didn't know one road game could make that much difference.  You are the master of embellishment.  Are you a lawyer or a politician?


----------



## ISUCC

Just 2 games today, Illinois State got past Indiana State easily

Loyola is up 22 on SIU in the first half, so that's a win for Loyola

Where we stand now

Loyola-Chicago	6-2
Valparaiso	5-3
Drake	5-3
Illinois State	5-3
Missouri State	4-4
Northern Iowa	4-4
Southern Illinois	 3-5
Evansville	3-5
Indiana State	3-5
Bradley	2-6 

The good news is we're still one game out of 10th place, the bad news is we're still one game out of 10th place with a game against another Barry Hinson coached team Weds. If we're rooting for who we want to play on Thursday in St Louis I'd hope it'd be against Evansville.


----------



## Buckhorn

ISUCC said:


> If we're rooting for who we want to play on Thursday in St Louis I'd hope it'd be against Evansville.



Remarkable achievement, as ISU doesn't even have a 4'3" Div. III grad transfer on the roster!


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I think I'd prefer to play Bradley or Southern IL on Thursday over Evansville. If we stay out of Thursday I think I'd want Valpo or UNI. Either way it probably doesn't matter. Winning on Thursday means nothing except that your fanbase gets to suffer another day. Playing on Friday means nothing because if we win we'll more than likely get blown out on Saturday if we somehow won.

Upcoming midweek games.

MSU @ VU - need Valpo to win
UNI @ LUC- need Loyola to win
BU @ UE - probably should hope BU wins
ILST @ DU - doesn't really matter I suppose. If we win Wednesday and can beat Drake Saturday then we'll be tied with them should they lose to the Jailbirds. At the same time I just can't root for the Jailbirds.

If we can somehow win and UNI / MSU lose we'll be tied with them. However we are trailing both currently due to head to head matchups. Staying out of Thursday is definitely going to be an uphill battle.


----------



## sycamorebacker

ISUCC said:


> The good news is we're still one game out of 10th place, the bad news is we're still one game out of 10th place with a game against another Barry Hinson coached team Weds. If we're rooting for who we want to play on Thursday in St Louis I'd hope it'd be against Evansville.



The good news is we're two games out of 2nd place.


----------



## sycamorebacker

ISUCC said:


> Just 2 games today, Illinois State got past Indiana State easily
> 
> Loyola is up 22 on SIU in the first half, so that's a win for Loyola
> 
> Where we stand now
> 
> Loyola-Chicago	6-2
> Valparaiso	5-3
> Drake	5-3
> Illinois State	5-3
> Missouri State	4-4
> Northern Iowa	4-4
> Southern Illinois	 3-5
> Evansville	3-5
> Indiana State	3-5
> Bradley	2-6
> 
> The good news is we're still one game out of 10th place, the bad news is we're still one game out of 10th place with a game against another Barry Hinson coached team Weds. If we're rooting for who we want to play on Thursday in St Louis I'd hope it'd be against Evansville.



It's interesting that you have us 9th and MVC has us 7th.


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> It's interesting that you have us 9th and MVC has us 7th.




apparently no interest in our holding tiebreakers over them


----------



## ISUCC

Just one game tonight in the MVC, Missouri State (4-4) is playing at Valpo (5-3), tied at the half. On ESPN+

Weds. schedule:

Indiana State (3-5) at Southern Illinois (3-5) 9pm

Northern Iowa (4-4) at Loyola (6-2) 7pm

Bradley (2-6) at Evansville (3-5) 7pm

Illinois State (5-3) at Drake (5-3) 8pm

Loser of our game sinks to 9th place all alone, as UE will more than likely beat Bradley


----------



## Sycamorefan96

MSU and Valpo are heading into OT tied at 49.

LOL Gerry Pollard getting into it with a fan before the start of OT. What a clown!


----------



## ISUCC

MSU and Valpo in OT if anyone stays up this late to watch basketball, good game


----------



## ISUCC

wow, good game, MSU wins by hitting 2 FT's with :01 left.

That helps either us or SIU tomorrow night as the winner will only be 1 game out of 2nd place in the MVC, crazy


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I have a feeling that "us staying out of Thursday" will come down to our last game as usual. Could end up being like the one year (2012 I think) where if we would have won we would have finished 3rd, but instead we finished 7th since we lost. Logjams in the MVC are pretty common.


----------



## Buckhorn

ISUCC said:


> wow, good game, MSU wins by hitting 2 FT's with :01 left.



https://www.news-leader.com/story/s...ears-win-overtime-over-valparaiso/2715741002/

Looks like quite a few fans were "chilled out" of attendance.


----------



## ISUCC

With Bradley getting the upset road win at Evansville our game takes on even more significance. Win and we're tied for 6th place, lose and we're in 10th, so we really need to win

Other games tonight

Illinois State beat Drake

Loyola won by 1 over UNI

Bradley beat Evansville


----------



## ISUCC

here are the updated statistical odds of where we'll finish in MVC play, we're heading straight for Thursday. 


MVC Tournament Seeding Probabilities #ArchMadness - January 31 Update: pic.twitter.com/hkQDWN0X7C— Matt Hackman (@mjhackman) January 31, 2019


----------



## BrokerZ

ISUCC said:


> here are the updated statistical odds of where we'll finish in MVC play, we're heading straight for Thursday.
> 
> 
> MVC Tournament Seeding Probabilities #ArchMadness - January 31 Update: pic.twitter.com/hkQDWN0X7C— Matt Hackman (@mjhackman) January 31, 2019

There are faaaar too many games left for this to be statistically relevant, but I certainly won't argue against it otherwise.  We still have enough games left to salvage something with this season, but as each game passes by the margins become thinner and thinner.  

Bottom line, we are:

- The worst defensive team in the Valley, by a wide margin.  We're last in defensive efficiency overall, 9th in effective FG% against (teams are shooting an eFG% of 53%!!!), last in free throw rate (we foul way to damn much), 9th in block %, and 7th in steal %.  The only thing we do somewhat well defensively is limit offensive rebounds.  We're somewhat okay in forcing turnovers and three point % defense, but that has more to do with the sieve that is our dribble-drive defense and our inability to protect the rim.

- Nearly the worst offensive team in the Valley.  We're 9th in offensive efficiency overall, 9th in effective FG%, 8th in offensive rebounding rate, and last in three point shooting (28.7% WTF!?!?!?).  If you want comedy, believe it or not we're the best free throw shooting team in the Valley.  We get the line more than any other team and we shoot the highest percentage in the league at 74.1%.

You put all this into a pot of gumbo and you get a team that's actually lucky to have 3 wins.  We need to figure out who the hell we want to be because right now we're bad at everything.  If we want to be a high-flying offense-first team, then so be it.  Go be that.  Focus on something and create an identity because you can't be bad at everything and expect any better results than we've already seen.


----------



## ISUCC

2 games in the MVC tonight. 

Loyola will defeat Drake

Valpo is up big at Illinois State, Valpo looking for the season sweep over the Redbirds


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> 2 games in the MVC tonight.
> 
> Loyola will defeat Drake
> 
> Valpo is up big at Illinois State, Valpo looking for the season sweep over the Redbirds



Didn't see that Valpo win coming. Crazy conference for sure.


----------



## Gotta Hav

meistro said:


> *Didn't see that Valpo win coming.* Crazy conference for sure.



Wow, who did?  It's so unbelievable that I actually had to go find and read the report.

And this part is hard to comprehend, at one time Valpo was up 51-27!!!    So again, it still looks everyone has a chance to win Arch Madness except Bradley and us.

https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/col...b04abc8.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1


----------



## ISUCC

other games tonight starting at 8, 

Bradley at UNI (need a UNI win so we can move out of last place)

SIU at Missouri State (both are 5-5)


----------



## ISUCC

winners tonight were 

Indiana State

Bradley

Missouri State

So now there is a 3 way tie for last place with us, Bradley and Evansville at 4-7, but we are not that far out of the top 7, so there is hope


----------



## BrokerZ

The MVC is tight right now.  Still huge swings possible, including for us.  Here's where things stand after last night's games:

1. Loyola (8-3)
2. Illinois State (7-4)
3. Drake (6-5)
4. Valparaiso (6-5)
5. Missouri State (6-5)
6. SIU (5-6)
7. UNI (5-6)
8. Indiana State (4-7)
9. Bradley (4-7)
10. Evansville (4-7)

With NET ranking now being the second tiebreaker, it's good to check in there as well.  Even the NET rankings differences are minimal:

125. Loyola
139. Drake
160. SIU
162. Missouri State
178. Valparaiso
180. Illinois State
182. Indiana State
183. Evansville
197. Bradley
202. UNI

If we have any hopes of avoiding Thursday, we absolutely must win at Bradley on Saturday.  That'll give us the tie breaker with Evansville and Bradley. We'll also have a comfortable NET ranking cushion with UNI.  SIU has one of the tougher remaining schedules in the conference, so it's possible they sub their toes down the stretch.

I'm saying there's a chance...


----------



## ISUCC

Tonight in the MVC

Drake and UNI are about to finish in Des Moines, Drake up 6 with :39 left

Indiana State at Bradley

Evansville at Southern Illinois

And Drake, wearing their baby blue uniforms celebrating 50 years since their final 4, defeats UNI 83-77 in Des Moines

UNI falls another step down the ladder towards playing on Thursday, now 5-7 in MVC play, either ISU or Bradley will join them at 5-7 after tonight.


----------



## ISUCC

SIU beat Evansville, so it's us and the Aces tied for DFL


----------



## Gotta Hav

Just thinking about next year, and the team that could win the MVC regular season and Arch Madness in 2019-2020 is Valpo.  They've been up and down this year, but would be more UP if they hadn't suffered so many injuries.  Their leading scorer Fazekas, is still out...but if it all comes to together next year....they're going to be a tough to beat.

They have everyone back next year except for one Senior, and have two, potentially really good transfers eligible next season in Eron Gordon and Nick Robinson. 

http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/?view=list#


----------



## meistro

Gotta Hav said:


> Just thinking about next year, and the team that could win the MVC regular season and Arch Madness in 2019-2020 is Valpo.  They've been up and down this year, but would be more UP if they hadn't suffered so many injuries.  Their leading scorer Fazekas, is still out...but if it all comes to together next year....they're going to be a tough to beat.
> 
> They have everyone back next year except for one Senior, and have two, potentially really good transfers eligible next season in Eron Gordon and Nick Robinson.
> 
> http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/?view=list#



What about us? Just wait til we get Neese and Williams we all said.


----------



## pbutler218

Gotta Hav said:


> Just thinking about next year, and the team that could win the MVC regular season and Arch Madness in 2019-2020 is Valpo.  They've been up and down this year, but would be more UP if they hadn't suffered so many injuries.  Their leading scorer Fazekas, is still out...but if it all comes to together next year....they're going to be a tough to beat.
> 
> They have everyone back next year except for one Senior, and have two, potentially really good transfers eligible next season in Eron Gordon and Nick Robinson.
> 
> http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/?view=list#



Yeah, the Nick Robinson that originally committed to us. Remember?? I do.....


----------



## Daveinth

meistro said:


> What about us? Just wait til we get Neese and Williams we all said.



I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday . Everyone said we would struggle thru the mid December then we would be vastly improved once our transfers became elgible . To be honest we played what 2-3 good games since they  have started to play ? Blow this team up start over we will struggle but as fans the struggle will be worth it if we land the right guy and hopefully the players worth saving will want to stay the rest may be able to transfer across town to SMWC.


----------



## ISUCC

2 games today, both at 4pm, 

Loyola at Valpo (ESPNU)

Illinois State at Missouri State (ESPN3)


----------



## meistro

No doubt the Valley is down this year, and only deserves 1 team in the tournament. But I watched some of the IU game today and the announcers were talking about IU getting in. Are you kidding me? They’ve now lost 9of 10 games. I guarantee there’s gonna be more good mid major teams left out this year, in favor of a team like Indiana from a power conference. Give me a break.


----------



## ISUCC

no way IU gets in after that loss, unless they win the Big 10 tourney

I'm curious about the big east, only TWO teams have winning conference records, Villanova and Marquette, every other team in that conference has a losing record in conference play. It'll be criminal if they get more than 3-4 bids

You all should tune in to Loyola - Valpo on ESPNU, they're playing in front of a standing room only crowd, great atmosphere, something we can hope for in the future.


----------



## Buckhorn

meistro said:


> No doubt the Valley is down this year, and only deserves 1 team in the tournament. But I watched some of the IU game today and the announcers were talking about IU getting in. Are you kidding me? They’ve now lost 9of 10 games. I guarantee there’s gonna be more good mid major teams left out this year, in favor of a team like Indiana from a power conference. Give me a break.



Ya, it's almost as bad as the Shakespearean comedy of Romeo turning pro...


----------



## treeman

Just watching the other MVC games today is so damn tough because these other programs are playing with pride. They want that championship. 

We have a top half talent wise team. We were playing the best going into conference. We have the motivation of celebrating the 79 team. Hell every player met Larry and got to wear the same UNI he did. We have a WIDE OPEN valley. And yet we still can’t even play with pride. Unbelievable. Makes me sick to miss such an opportunity


----------



## ISUCC

OMFG!! Did anyone just see Illinois State lose AGAIN at the buzzer to a half court shot from Missouri State?? Wow! Just WOW!!

And Loyola just beat Valpo by 5 at Valpo


----------



## treeman

ISUCC said:


> OMFG!! Did anyone just see Illinois State lose AGAIN at the buzzer to a half court shot from Missouri State?? Wow! Just WOW!!



Insane series of events to end that game. Couldn’t of happened to a more deserving program. Hahaha Redbirds


----------



## ISUCC

here it is


Missouri State half-court buzzer beater to beat Illinois State 66-65 oh my. I feel for my Redbirds fans @DRoan @Scheuer_Thing @billyweather pic.twitter.com/KS9vpl1I3p— Josh Frydman (@Josh_Frydman) February 10, 2019


----------



## ISUCC

from the floor, man how much fun would it be if ISU was winning games like this, look at how fired up the crowd and the MSU players are! 


Here's another look at the @MSUBearsHoops winner ⬇️pic.twitter.com/SG9BzO60s2— MVC Basketball (@ValleyHoops) February 10, 2019


----------



## IndyTreeFan

ISUCC said:


> from the floor, man how much fun would it be if ISU was winning games like this, look at how fired up the crowd and the MSU players are!
> 
> 
> Here's another look at the @MSUBearsHoops winner ⬇️pic.twitter.com/SG9BzO60s2— MVC Basketball (@ValleyHoops) February 10, 2019

Jealous


----------



## Sycamore Proud

treeman said:


> Insane series of events to end that game. *Couldn’t of happened to a more deserving program.* Hahaha Redbirds



True, very true!


----------



## meistro

ISUCC said:


> no way IU gets in after that loss, unless they win the Big 10 tourney
> 
> I'm curious about the big east, only TWO teams have winning conference records, Villanova and Marquette, every other team in that conference has a losing record in conference play. It'll be criminal if they get more than 3-4 bids
> 
> You all should tune in to Loyola - Valpo on ESPNU, they're playing in front of a standing room only crowd, great atmosphere, something we can hope for in the future.


I noticed that too. They’ll get 5 in and that conference outside of Villanova and Marquette isn’t as good as they get credit for. Minnesota from the Big Ten will probably get in and look at the big losses they have. Their resume isn’t great, but they’ll get in because of their conference.


----------



## Gotta Hav

meistro said:


> What about us? Just wait til we get *Neese and Williams* we all said.



Yep, true bout us....but Valpo probably doesn't even need Eron Gordon and Nick Robinson for next year, for Valpo to be good.


----------



## Gotta Hav

pbutler218 said:


> Yeah, the Nick Robinson that originally committed to us. Remember?? I do.....



Wow....I barely remember that...there's a mention that he verbally committed in post #29, and in the same post..it also mentions a problem with the LOI.


----------



## Gotta Hav

ISUCC said:


> OMFG!! Did anyone just see Illinois State lose AGAIN at the buzzer to a half court shot from Missouri State?? Wow! Just WOW!



Even though it's a down year for the MVC....it's still going to be one hell of a Tournament in St. Louis this year!!!

It's going to be a brawl between Missouri State, Loyola, Valpo, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Drake, and geezus...who knows who else?  Bradley?  LOL!

Regardless of who wins, I really think they'll do a great job representing The Valley in the NCAA Tournament....Valpo and Loyola, both looked like NCAA Tournament ready teams today.


----------



## Prisonmate

treeman said:


> Insane series of events to end that game. Couldn’t of happened to a more deserving program. Hahaha Redbirds



I second this. Their board is the only who trashes the league non-stop. Ditto their twitter fans. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch. God, I’d trade them for Murray in a millisecond.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I'm thrilled with the result as there's no team in the MVC I hate more than the Jailbirds, but watching the replay I think Dixon might have gotten away with a double dribble.


----------



## Buckhorn

https://www.news-leader.com/sports/

Bears enjoying the moment. Isn't Dana Ford an IL St Basketball alum? :thumbsup:


----------



## meistro

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I'm thrilled with the result as there's no team in the MVC I hate more than the Jailbirds, but watching the replay I think Dixon might have gotten away with a double dribble.



Yes, I also believe he got away with a double dribble.


----------



## 4Q_iu

meistro said:


> Yes, I also believe he got away with a double dribble.





lotta travels, double dribbles in that scrum


----------



## Sycamorefan96

The latest hacksaw graph is out on MVCfans. Here are the projected games after this weekend

1 Loyola Chicago vs 8 Bradley / 9 Indiana State winner
4 Missouri State vs 5 Southern Illinois
2 Drake vs 7 Northern Iowa / 10 Evansville winner
3 Illinois State vs 6 Valparaiso


----------



## treeman

Fun fact of the day: we are officially the first and only team statistically eliminated from winning the conference. There is literally not a scenario that we can win it.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

treeman said:


> Fun fact of the day: we are officially the first and only team statistically eliminated from winning the conference. There is literally not a scenario that we can win it.




Most of us, at this point, would be happy with being mathematically eliminated from Thursday's play.


----------



## ISUCC

just one game tonight, 

Drake plays SIU at 8pm (ESPN+)


----------



## ISUCC

Drake still up 7 on SIU in the 2nd half


----------



## ISUCC

SIU fought back, but Drake winds up winning by 3, lord knows what in the heck SIU was thinking, they were down 3 with 7 seconds left and instead of trying for a 3 to tie it someone just dribbled in to hit a layup after the buzzer sounded, wouldn't have tied the game anyway had it counted. Weird set of plays


----------



## ISUCC

The other games tonight

Missouri State will beat Evansville, so UE will either be in last alone or tied with us yet if we lose tonight

Loyola up 4 at Bradley at the half

UNI up 12 on Illinois State at the half

And we're up 3


----------



## ISUCC

upset night in the MVC

UNI beat Illinois State

Bradley BRADLEY beat Loyola

Missouri State beat Evansville

And of course we're in OT


----------



## meistro

We're still most likely a Thursday team unless we run the table. Most likely we finish at 7-11 or 8-10. But as they said in the classic Dumb & Dumber, there's still a chance.


----------



## ISUCC

today's games

SIU at Indiana State - 12:00 PM ESPN+

Valpo at Drake - 3pm ESPN3

Bradley at Illinois State 8pm (ESPN2)


----------



## ISUCC

SIU cruises to an easy win at ISU

Next game tips off in 45 minutes


----------



## ISUCC

Drake got past Valpo

Bradley vs Illinois State is on ESPN2 now


----------



## ISUCC

at the half Bradley leads Illinois State 33-30

it's always interesting to watch these rivalry games, the place at Illinois State is basically sold out, great atmosphere there. Fans are loud and into the game. 

It's sad we don't have a rivalry game with anyone. And to top it off we've had nearly a decade now of losing, no interest in the program, and noone comes to the games. We have no home court advantage, we're 3-4 in home MVC games. A few of us had thought about driving down from Indy today, but knew what the outcome would be, so we decided not to waste our time driving down there to see another pathetic performance. 

It doesn't appear anything will change anytime soon. Even Evansville is undergoing a resurgence, and they stink. Just a sad state of affairs going on at ISU


----------



## ISUCC

Assuming Bradley hangs on and wins at Illinois State here, (Bradley did beat ILS) these will be the standings with 2 games tomorrow, Loyola, UNI, Evansville, and Missouri State have games Sunday

Loyola-Chicago	9-4	
Drake	9-5	
Missouri State	8-5
Illinois State	7-7
Southern Illinois	7-7
Bradley	7-7
Northern Iowa	6-7
Valparaiso	6-8
Indiana State	5-9	
Evansville	4-9

with 4 games left, it's safe to assume it'll be "Indiana Night" Thursday in St Louis. The only question is who will join us? 

Loyola, Drake, and Missouri State are safely out of Thursday, we made SIU look like an NCAA team today, they're playing well, Bradley is playing very well. UNI and Illinois State look awful, so I'd guess it will either be UNI or Illinois State joining us Indiana schools on Thursday in St Louis.

Our remaining schedule is very difficult, honestly I don't see us winning anymore games this year. The only possibility is the UNI game the last game of the regular season, but if we lose the next 3, then what motivation is there to beat UNI the last game?


----------



## bent20

Considering how bad the Valley is this year, I think it makes our record this season probably three to four losses worse than it actually is (if you're comparing Lansing's teams by their records).


----------



## ISUCC

2 good games today, both with big implications

MSU at Loyola 4pm on ESPNU

UNI at Evansville 4pm on ESPN+


----------



## meistro

At this point with our fate as a Thursday team decided, I just don’t care what is going on in the rest of the league. I will root for whatever Valley team gets in the tournament. There’s always next year.


----------



## Hooper

meistro said:


> At this point with our fate as a Thursday team decided, I just don’t care what is going on in the rest of the league. I will root for whatever Valley team gets in the tournament. There’s always next year.



My predictions for next year:

1.  As bad as the MVC is this year, it’ll be even worse next year.  Many of the league’s “premier” players are gone after this year.
2.  We have almost everyone back.  Clink gives GL an ultimatum of NIT, NCAA, or bye-bye.
3.  With a good nucleus returning, we win the final Arch Madness ever held* and go dancing.



*The MVC/Arch Madness contract expires next year and I’ve heard no renewal talk.  My guess is Chicago or one of its suburbs goes for it hard.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Hooper said:


> *The MVC/Arch Madness contract expires next year and I’ve heard no renewal talk.  My guess is Chicago or one of its suburbs goes for it hard.



Side tracking this, but I wish they'd start a rotation for it. St. Louis/Chicago/Indy, etc.


----------



## Prisonmate

CBS reupped the final through 2024 after last year’s game rated 6th of the 32 conferences.

So I guess CBS wouldn’t do that unless it had a pretty good idea it would stay at Scottrade? Also the Patty Viverito political factor.


----------



## ISUCC

Both MVC games today are really good, MSU is up 8 on Loyola at Loyola, and UNI is up 13 at Evansville

if these results hold it will be a mad scramble the last 4 games! 

You will have Drake, Missouri State and Loyola tied for 1st

The next 4 will be tied for the first spot to play on Thursday in St Louis (UNI, Bradley, SIU, and ILS will be 7-7)

Then the 3 Indiana schools are set to play on Thursday in 8th, 9th, and 10th place. (Indiana State, Evansville, and Valpo). 

Which of SIU, UNI, ILS, or Bradley will join us for "Indiana Day" Thursday in St Louis?? 

Crazy finish being set up here


----------



## ISUCC

Jason Svoboda said:


> Side tracking this, but I wish they'd start a rotation for it. St. Louis/Chicago/Indy, etc.



I could see it going St Louis, Chicago, Kansas City, Quad Cities, before it'd ever come to Indy. Indy is too far east.


----------



## ISUCC

Crazy ending at Loyola, but Missouri State wins to force a 3 way tie for 1st! UNI won at Evansville. 

Then the next 4 teams are tied for 7th at 7-7, trying to avoid Thursday (ILS, UNI, SIU, and Bradley)

crazy....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> I could see it going St Louis, Chicago, Kansas City, Quad Cities, before it'd ever come to Indy. Indy is too far east.



IIRC, Indy is more central (avg distance) to all teams than Chicago is. I think I or someone else posted this a couple years ago when the first rumor of it leaving St. Louis came up.


----------



## ISUCC

Jason Svoboda said:


> IIRC, Indy is more central (avg distance) to all teams than Chicago is. I think I or someone else posted this a couple years ago when the first rumor of it leaving St. Louis came up.



Could be true, but wouldn't you think attendance would be way less in Indy than KC, the Quad Cities, or Chicago? The Indiana schools don't show up very well in St Louis and I doubt they would even if the tourney was in their backyards


----------



## Gotta Hav

ISUCC said:


> I could see it going St Louis, Chicago, Kansas City, Quad Cities, before it'd ever come to Indy. Indy is too far east.



But Kansas City is NOT too far west for 30% of the league in Indiana...just make it too far west for 50% of the league if you add Loyola and Illinois State.

It's 400 miles to Kansas City from Normal, Ill and it's over 500 miles from Loyola.


----------



## ISUCC

HUGE game tonight at Drake, a resurgent Bradley takes on 1st place Drake in front of what I bet will be a huge crowd for Drake tonight 

8pm on ESPN+


----------



## Westbadenboy

Given the size of Drake's arena this brings new meaning to what a "huge crowd" is now in the MVC with the departure of Creighton and Wichita.
Although if its over 5000 I guess we'd take it at Hulman Center ……………
(Wonder how many fans were actually in the seats at our last game ??? -- looked like a few hundred)


----------



## ISUCC

Westbadenboy said:


> Given the size of Drake's arena this brings new meaning to what a "huge crowd" is now in the MVC with the departure of Creighton and Wichita.
> Although if its over 5000 I guess we'd take it at Hulman Center ……………
> (Wonder how many fans were actually in the seats at our last game ??? -- looked like a few hundred)



not as crowded as I thought it'd be, but then checked the Des Moines weather, big snow there, so crowd isn't that large.


----------



## ISUCC

Drake up 3 here to start the 2nd half


----------



## ISUCC

Boy, looking more and more like the technical foul called on Bradley's coach will wind up being the difference in this game. Poor Bradley

And Drake does win


----------



## ISUCC

HUGE win for ISU over ILS tonight, if we only could have played like this the entire MVC season. 

Around the league tonight

Loyola is beating UE easily

UNI is playing Missouri State

Southern Illinois is at Valpo 

all viewable online


----------



## Buckhorn

Aces played LUC even during the 2nd half.

http://stats.statbroadcast.com/broadcast/?id=234968


----------



## ISUCC

The Valpo - SIU and Missouri State - UNI games are pretty good if anyone is still up at this hour, tune in

And, if you're watching the MSU-UNI game, the crowds are back at MSU, see what winning and a new coaching regime does for a team, interesting.


----------



## ISUCC

Boy, so Valpo defeats SIU tonight, and UNI is on the verge of beating 1st place Missouri State at MSU (in front of nearly 7000 people no less)

So now things look like this

Drake	10-5
Loyola-Chicago	10-5
Missouri State	9-6
Northern Iowa	8-7
Southern Illinois	  7-8
Bradley	  7-8
Illinois State	  7-8
Valparaiso	  7-8
Indiana State	6-9
Evansville	4-11

The odds are not good, but if we could steal wins at MSU and Drake, then beat UNI at home, we're sitting at 9-9 and maybe missing Thursday. But given how we play horribly at Missouri State and Drake I'm not counting on winning either of those games.


----------



## Buckhorn

Ford likely lost more than the game last night, as it places Drake's HC in drivers seat for COY honors.

https://www.news-leader.com/story/s...ejected-northern-iowa-beats-bears/2929207002/

Just shows if ya don't bring you "A" game in the Valley, "shit happens!" Gotta also give credit to the "Dean" of MVC coaches @ UNI for his game plan/preparation. Ford's frustration was rooted in the fact that he was "taken to the woodshed" and taught a few things!


----------



## ISUCC

So far today, 

Missouri State over Indiana State

Bradley over Evansville

Valpo at UNI in 40 minutes


----------



## ISUCC

UNI beats Valpo to remain in 4th place, while Valpo falls back into playing on Thursday with us and Evansville. 

Looks like Southern Illinois and Illinois State will battle to join us Indiana schools on Thursday in St Louis.


----------



## ISUCC

2 critical games in the MVC today, 

Drake at Illinois State 2PM CBS Sports Network

Loyola at SIU 4PM ESPNU

Illinois State and SIU are battling to stay out of Thursday with us, Evansville, and Valpo, so these are huge games for them.


----------



## pbutler218

Illinois State beat Drake.


----------



## ISUCC

And SIU beats Loyola, 

3 way tie for 1st place now, 3 teams at 10-6, most losses ever had by a team to win an MVC title

SIU keeps pace with ILS to avoid Thursday, both are 8-8 now, Bradley is also 8-8, so they also may play on Thursday if they tank


----------



## Buckhorn

http://mvc-sports.com/standings.aspx?path=mbball


----------



## TreeTop

At 6-10 and with the effort we put forth at MSU, I feel like we still have a chance in the conference tourney, even as a Thursday team.  

Or...we'll get blown out by Evansville.

Hard to say which!


----------



## skdent1414

We haven’t won 2 consecutive games in conference play. What makes you think we get lightning up our asses and win 4?


----------



## TreeTop

skdent1414 said:


> We haven’t won 2 consecutive games in conference play. What makes you think we get lightning up our asses and win 4?



A few reasons...one) we're playing slightly better as of late, B) we did win five in a row during the non-con and yes I'm aware one of those games was vs a D2 school, and thirdly) because I don't give that much credit to the rest of the league...there's not one team that is dominating the league right now.


----------



## skdent1414

I like the optimism! No team has ever won 4 in St Louis. But hey, no 16 could beat a 1 until it happened. All bets are off in March.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

TreeTop said:


> At 6-10 and with the effort we put forth at MSU, I feel like we still have a chance in the conference tourney, even as a Thursday team.
> 
> Or...we'll get blown out by Evansville.
> 
> Hard to say which!



Well we won't get blown out by Evansville, because 9 seeds don't play 10 seeds in the first round. More than likely we will play Valpo (an 8 seed) and if we win hopefully the 1 seed is not Loyola.


----------



## TreeTop

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Well we won't get blown out by Evansville, because 9 seeds don't play 10 seeds in the first round. More than likely we will play Valpo (an 8 seed) and if we win hopefully the 1 seed is not Loyola.



We win the tie-breaker with Valpo and while Illinois State currently wins the tie-breaker over us (their NET is 196 and our's is 198), that could change once all the regular season games have been played.

So yeah, the cruel (albeit unlikely) reality is that we could still get blown out by Evansville.


----------



## ISUCC

no games tonight, 5 games Weds. night


----------



## BrokerZ

Got my Arch Madness tickets in the mail.

Who all is going?  I'm guessing just me, but I'm curious if anyone else is a glutton for punishment.


----------



## sycamore tuff

BrokerZ said:


> Got my Arch Madness tickets in the mail.
> 
> Who all is going?  I'm guessing just me, but I'm curious if anyone else is a glutton for punishment.



I will be there Saturday and Sunday.


----------



## Buckhorn

UNI-LUC tied @ 51 w/ 1:34 left ...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/gametracker/live/NCAAB_20190227_LOYCHI@NIOWA/


----------



## ISUCC

Tonight's games

Drake over Indiana State

Loyola over UNI

SIU over Evansville

Illinois State over Missouri State

Bradley over Valpo


----------



## ISUCC

standings now

Drake	11-6
Loyola-Chicago	11-6
Missouri State	10-7
Northern Iowa	9-8
Illinois State	9-8
Southern Illinois	  9-8
Bradley	9-8
Valparaiso	7-10
Indiana State	6-11
Evansville	4-13

So 4 teams are fighting to join us on "Indiana Day" on Thursday in St Louis, who will it be?


----------



## meistro

Is there any question who the Valley coach of the year is? Prime example that coaching matters.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

The game to watch on Saturday is the ILST @ SIU game. If SIU wins then ILST will play on Thursday no matter what. If ILST wins then that is where all the fun begins. 

If we win and ILST wins then UNI will play on Thursday. 

If UNI and ILST both win then it's between SIU and BU for who plays on Thursday. BU only wins the tiebreaker with SIU in this case if BU wins at Loyola.

https://i.imgur.com/loVceGT.png


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Sycamorefan96 said:


> The game to watch on Saturday is the ILST @ SIU game. If SIU wins then ILST will play on Thursday no matter what. If ILST wins then that is where all the fun begins.
> 
> If we win and ILST wins then UNI will play on Thursday.
> 
> If UNI and ILST both win then it's between SIU and BU for who plays on Thursday. BU only wins the tiebreaker with SIU in this case if BU wins at Loyola.



Fun for who?


----------



## BrokerZ

We're playing Valpo no matter what in the 8/9 game on Thursday.  It's still TBD whether we are 8 or 9, but we'll play game 1 on Thursday in St. Louis.  

We may beat Valpo for a third time (tall task), but I have zero confidence we can beat either Drake or Loyola on Friday.  Both of those teams have proven to be much better than us this year.  We've barely been competitive in all four of those games.

I wonder what the access code to the locker room will be for next year?


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I'll never root for us to lose, but I wouldn't be all that heartbroken if we lost to Valpo. Valpo might actually give the 1 seed a game and save us the embarrassment of getting blown out in St Louis again.

The ball is in Loyola's court right now. If Loyola wins on senior day they are the 1 seed. If Loyola loses and MSU wins then MSU is the 1 seed. If Loyola loses and Drake wins then Drake is the 1 seed.

I'd prefer the 1 seed be MSU (or Drake as second choice) should we win, but I don't like our chances against any of them.


----------



## BrokerZ

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I'll never root for us to lose, but I wouldn't be all that heartbroken if we lost to Valpo. Valpo might actually give the 1 seed a game and save us the embarrassment of getting blown out in St Louis again.
> 
> The ball is in Loyola's court right now. If Loyola wins on senior day they are the 1 seed. If Loyola loses and MSU wins then MSU is the 1 seed. If Loyola loses and Drake wins then Drake is the 1 seed.
> 
> I'd prefer the 1 seed be MSU (or Drake as second choice) should we win, but I don't like our chances against any of them.



I would be heartbroken because I'm planning on being in St. Louis for 4 days and would prefer to see at least two ISU games.  Otherwise...yeah...I don't care much.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

BrokerZ said:


> I would be heartbroken because I'm planning on being in St. Louis for 4 days and would prefer to see at least two ISU games.  Otherwise...yeah...I don't care much.



I'm going to be in St Louis on Saturday and Sunday, so I really do not expect to even see ISU play again this season (can't make the UNI game). At least we clobbered Illinois State my last game of the year. Friday night I plan on being in Evansville for the OVC semifinals. I went last year and had a good time. It's only $30 for a ticket (7th row last year) for two games and free parking, so you can't beat that.


----------



## Buckhorn

UE set 10 yr. attendance record this season:

https://www.courierpress.com/story/...-post-highest-attendance-10-years/3004069002/


----------



## ISUCC

Last day Saturday

UNI at Indiana State

Illinois State at SIU

Evansville at Valpo

Drake at Missouri State

Bradley at Loyola


----------



## ISUCC

Today's game so far

Indiana State over UNI

Southern Illinois over Illinois State

Evansville won at Valpo! So that means we get the 8 seed in St Louis and get to wear home uniforms! 

Either UNI or Illinois State or Bradley will join us Indiana schools on Thursday, depending on the Bradley outcome later tonight

Drake and MSU are in a close 1 point game at halftime


----------



## meistro

In a year of mediocre basketball nationwide, if Drake wins out but loses on Sunday, do they have any chance of an at large, or should they? IU is going to get in with probably 15 or 16 losses. Strange year, much parity.


----------



## Buckhorn

Read on the UE Board where their Div III grad transfer, 6'0" G Shea Feehan, was dismissed for ACADEMIC reasons. He didn't dress today in their win @ Valpo.

https://www.courierpress.com/story/...-guard-shea-feehan-dismissed-team/3039730002/


----------



## ISUCC

Loyola finishes off Bradley to also place 1st with Drake in the MVC.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

2019 MVC bracket

#1 Loyola vs. #8 INST / #9 Valpo winner
#4 MSU vs. #5 Bradley
#2 Drake vs. #7 ILST / #10 Evansville winner
#3 SIU vs. #6 UNI


----------



## TreeTop

For as "down" as the MVC is this year, I like how the season turned out.  IF it's going to be a season where we're an auto-bid league only, then I'd much rather have the standings be close from top to bottom.

Highest NET is Drake at 128
Lowest NET is Evansville at 205

Would love to know the last time (IF EVER) 77 spots separated first to last in RPI (since this is the first year of NET).

Also, I'm gonna look and see if any other conference has their last place team with a NET worse than 205.


----------



## TreeTop

TreeTop said:


> For as "down" as the MVC is this year, I like how the season turned out.  IF it's going to be a season where we're an auto-bid league only, then I'd much rather have the standings be close from top to bottom.
> 
> Highest NET is Drake at 128
> Lowest NET is Evansville at 205
> 
> Would love to know the last time (IF EVER) 77 spots separated first to last in RPI (since this is the first year of NET).
> 
> Also, I'm gonna look and see if any other conference has their last place team with a NET worse than 205.



Conferences with their last place team having a higher NET than our last place Evansville of 205...

ACC Wake Forest 198
Big 12 West Virginia 117
Big East DePaul 104 (that surprised me)
Big Ten Rutgers 98 (that annoys me)
SEC Vanderbilt 143

Anyway, just something I found slightly interesting.


----------



## Buckhorn

I'd take UE over Wake Forest any day of the week...Manning's squad is the WORST coached team I've seen this season. Terrible. Btw, here's the latest on life in Winston-Salem:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.co...ech-win-and-what-just-happened-at-wake-forest


----------



## sycamorebacker

TreeTop said:


> Conferences with their last place team having a higher NET than our last place Evansville of 205...
> 
> ACC Wake Forest 198
> Big 12 West Virginia 117
> Big East DePaul 104 (that surprised me)
> Big Ten Rutgers 98 (that annoys me)
> SEC Vanderbilt 143
> 
> Anyway, just something I found slightly interesting.



I'm not understanding.  Rutgers isn't close to being last in the Big Ten.


----------



## TreeTop

sycamorebacker said:


> I'm not understanding.  Rutgers isn't close to being last in the Big Ten.



Just referring to their NET rating. Team in the conference with the worst NET rating. Last place in terms of NET, not wins/losses.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings


----------



## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> For as "down" as the MVC is this year, I like how the season turned out.  IF it's going to be a season where we're an auto-bid league only, then I'd much rather have the standings be close from top to bottom.
> 
> Highest NET is Drake at 128
> Lowest NET is Evansville at 205
> 
> *Would love to know the last time (IF EVER) 77 spots separated first to last in RPI (since this is the first year of NET).*
> 
> Also, I'm gonna look and see if any other conference has their last place team with a NET worse than 205.



Wouldn't it have happened pretty much every year? I'm pretty sure Loyola ended up in the Top 25 RPI last year and my guess is our last place Valley team was 150+. I would assume the same for every Wichita State year?

EDIT: Just looked at last year and Loyola was Top 20 and we were at 175-180 or something like that.


----------



## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> EDIT: Just looked at last year and Loyola was Top 20 and we were at 175-180 or something like that.



2018: Loyola 48, ISU 181: difference of 133 (WarrenNolan)
2017: WSU 29, Drake 316 difference of 287 (NCAA)
2016: WSU 41, Drake 322 difference of 281 (NCAA)
2015: UNI 11, Bradley 280 difference of 269 (NCAA)
2014: WSU 6, Loyola 292 difference of 286 (NCAA)
2013: WSU 18, MSU 198 difference of 180 (NCAA)
2012: WSU 18, Bradley 268 difference of 250 (NCAA)
2011: WSU 35, Illinois State 252 difference of 217 (NCAA)
2010: UNI 12, Evansville 245 difference of 233 (NCAA)

It's rare that only 77 spots separate our best and worst teams in terms of RPI (and now NET).

I'd go back further, out of curiosity, but I know I've gonna start seeing ISU in that last slot again, which will depress me.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Well, the NET isn't an apple to apple with the RPI. But just for comparison sake, here are this years numbers:

http://realtimerpi.com/college_Men_basketball_rpi_Full.html

Drake is top at 67, Evansville is bottom at 261.

I think people are searching for some magical feeling because the conference sucks this year. I don't care who gets the autobid, unless they get a weak P5 school, I think they will likely get their shit pushed in. Valley hoops has been an awful watch this year. The league doesn't have a lot going for it -- even the stars have been inconsistent and unimpressive. Honestly, that is the reason for the bunching IMO.


----------



## sycamorebacker

TreeTop said:


> Just referring to their NET rating. Team in the conference with the worst NET rating. Last place in terms of NET, not wins/losses.
> 
> https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings



My mistake.  Rutgers is 9th but last in NET.  I wonder if the NCAA will use a system that does not work for seeding.


----------



## BrokerZ

DJ Wilkins from Drake is out for the rest of the season.  Broke a bone (somewhere) in the game vs. MSU on Saturday.  Another tough loss for Drake, but they've shown they are a resilient team.

The lower half of the bracket at Arch Madness just got a lot more interesting.  Illinois State has a legitimate shot in the 2/7 game...assuming they get past Evansville.


----------



## meistro

For all those that want conference expansion, keep in mind that if we did, we’d just get a smaller piece of the pie. Just looking at other conferences and cusa and ovc are probably 1 bid leagues. A10 maybe 2. I’ve always been for adding a couple teams, but it’s clear that won’t necessarily equate to a better multi bid league. I still think the best excuse for the mvc to expand would be for more quality games. And at that, I would just add a Murray state or Nku for an 11 team league and 20 game schedule. Thoughts?


----------



## Hooper

meistro said:


> For all those that want conference expansion, keep in mind that if we did, we’d just get a smaller piece of the pie. Just looking at other conferences and cusa and ovc are probably 1 bid leagues. A10 maybe 2. I’ve always been for adding a couple teams, but it’s clear that won’t necessarily equate to a better multi bid league. I still think the best excuse for the mvc to expand would be for more quality games. And at that, I would just add a Murray state or Nku for an 11 team league and 20 game schedule. Thoughts?



There’s rumors the Ford Center will sell out this week...but Ja Morant types don’t come along every year.


----------



## Buckhorn

C & P breakdown on OVC Post-Season Tournament:

https://www.courierpress.com/story/...o-valley-conference-championships/3066065002/


----------



## Gotta Hav

Buckhorn said:


> C & P breakdown on OVC Post-Season Tournament:
> 
> https://www.courierpress.com/story/...o-valley-conference-championships/3066065002/



The Ford Center is going to be rockin'!!!  And would love to see Dylan Windler, who should have been an Indiana All Star, who plays for Belmont.

https://www.belmontbruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/bios/windler_dylan_38yp?view=bio

Between the MVC games and OVC games, it's going to be a great Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday for basketball games!


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I actually bought a ticket for the OVC semifinals as soon as the tickets became available on Sunday night. I'll be in the 4th row on the sideline, but I got extremely lucky to have bought my ticket as soon as they became available. Both games should be good ones. The top 4 teams in the OVC are all pretty talented and fairly even. If Jacksonville St and Austin Peay don't both win on Thursday night to make it to the semifinals I will be very surprised. Friday night will definitely be a fun one in Evansville.


----------



## Prisonmate

For the second straight year, Murray will bring more fans to the OVC tournament than any MVC team brings to St louis. 

You need fan bases like that at your conference tournament. It looks good on tv...especially when the final's OTA on CBS. We aren't a very smart league.


----------



## BrokerZ

Can someone explain to me by attendance at the conference tournament is so important.  I don't remember liking it all that much when we basically played away games versus Creighton and WSU every year.

The American (AAC) conference tournament last year had like 7 people in the stands, and I suppose they're doing just fine.  Just curious why people key-in on this so much.


----------



## Gotta Hav

BrokerZ said:


> Can someone explain to me by attendance at the conference tournament is so important.  I don't remember liking it all that much when we basically played away games versus Creighton and WSU every year.
> 
> The American (AAC) conference tournament last year had like 7 people in the stands, and I suppose they're doing just fine.  Just curious why people key-in on this so much.



Because it's intimidating, and it's easy to loose your confidence on someone elses HOME COURT?


----------



## 4Q_iu

BrokerZ said:


> Can someone explain to me by attendance at the conference tournament is so important.  I don't remember liking it all that much when we basically played away games versus Creighton and WSU every year.
> 
> The American (AAC) conference tournament last year had like 7 people in the stands, and I suppose they're doing just fine.  Just curious why people key-in on this so much.




it's an easy metric to track and yap about.   As a fan, it can be more enjoyable as fan blocks argue, "fight" ala Indiana Open Class boy's state tournament...

theoretically, it's a indicator of "conference health"

all conference tourneys could end tomorrow and only the greedy administrators and delusional fans would likely lose their minds over it.

the 'real' conference champion is that team that can win, night in - night out, from late Dec thru early March NOT get hot and win 3 consecutive in mid-March


----------



## IndyTreeFan

You have to admit, a few years ago when the MVC sold out Scottrade Center (22,000+) for both the semi-finals and the finals, it was pretty cool.  And it looked awesome on tv.

Of course, we had no part in that...:sad:


----------



## sycamore tuff

I think it is something fun to attend.  My son and I have made it a tradition.  I think the one thing at the tournament that gets me excited besides us winning is watching Ill state lose.  It use to be fun watching wichita lose.  Actually it still is!  I just have to do that on tv.


----------



## BrokerZ

Oh, I definitely agree that it makes the tournament more fun.  People have just been talking like there's some tangible benefit, and it's been brought up several times why Murray State us a must-add.  I wasn't trying to be facetious with the question...I truly wanted to know if there was something I was missing.

I love the MVC tournament and attend every year.  I'll be on my flight from Dallas to St. Louis tomorrow decked-out in ISU gear!


----------



## ISUCC

Evansville leads Illinois State at the half in game 2 of the Indiana Invitational tonight


----------



## Sycamore624

Valpo & Loyola just tipped


----------



## Sycamore624

9-0 Loyola


----------



## Sycamore624

Getting ugly fast......36-13 almost half


----------



## Sycamore624

At the half

Valpo-18
Loyola-40


----------



## Southgrad07

Valpo did us a big favor..would hate to see what loyola would of done to us


----------



## BrokerZ

Barry Hinson officially resigned at the post game news conference following their loss to UNI. He made an agreement with SIU leadership that if he didn’t make the NIT or NCAA tournament that he would step down.






He was obviously emotional in his press conference.  Worth a watch for those that look up to Hinson. I personally have always questioned his coaching ability, but there’s no denying he’s a classy individual that clearly loves the Valley.


----------



## Prisonmate

Wish Hinson the best and SIU the worst. The “You Suck” chants as he walked off were sickening to witness. Barry is a good man.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Gotta Hav said:


> The Ford Center is going to be rockin'!!!  And would love to see Dylan Windler, who should have been an Indiana All Star, who plays for Belmont.
> 
> https://www.belmontbruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/bios/windler_dylan_38yp?view=bio
> 
> Between the MVC games and OVC games, it's going to be a great Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday for basketball games!



It was definitely rocking last night. I haven't heard it get that loud in an arena since we played Wichita in 2014. Both games were great and the Murray State game definitely was the most fun I've had at a game this season. I felt bad for Jacksonville State because they really took it to the Racers. The lower bowl completely sold out and the sides of the upper bowl sold out. They had to take down the curtain all the way around. The OVC set a single session attendance record last night. Magic Johnson was also at the game sitting three rows in front of me, scouting Ja Morant, which was kind of cool, but that might be a sour topic.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

I wouldn’t be mad if GL made the NIT, NCAA or bust ultimatum for next year.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Am I the only one laughing at the weird hypocrisy going on in here? 

The same folks skewering Coach Lansing are giving Barry Hinson under the table handies when he's essentially done the same damn thing at Southern Illinois that Greg has done here. Lansing is 148-142 (.510) overall and 80-82 (.494) in conference to Hinson's was 116-106 (.523) overall and 60-66 (.476) in conference. 

At least Lansing has a NCAA tournament berth, two NIT appearances and the CIT appearance. Hinson has never taking SIU to any postseason tournament. If you think Lansing sucks (and my of you have said that and worse) then it is equally applicable to Barry. If I am missing something, please enlighten me.


----------



## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> Am I the only one laughing at the weird hypocrisy going on in here?
> 
> The same folks skewering Coach Lansing are giving Barry Hinson under the table handies when he's essentially done the same damn thing at Southern Illinois that Greg has done here. Lansing is 148-142 (.510) overall and 80-82 (.494) in conference to Hinson's was 116-106 (.523) overall and 60-66 (.476) in conference.
> 
> At least Lansing has a NCAA tournament berth, two NIT appearances and the CIT appearance. Hinson has never taking SIU to any postseason tournament. If you think Lansing sucks (and my of you have said that and worse) then it is equally applicable to Barry. If I am missing something, please enlighten me.



I'm not one of the Hinson fans, but he is coming off four straight winning seasons to Lansing's five straight losing seasons. And his team finished in 3rd place. 

I'm curious if Hinson in fact resigned (as he said he would), he's stepping away from $350,000 ($175,000 for a buyout). And he had a much better performance this year than Lansing.

Also, if Hinson indeed made this agreement with the former AD after a 20-win season last year and second place finish in the Valley, I think it can be argued SIU holds their coaches to much higher standards and expectations than we do.


----------



## meistro

Jason Svoboda said:


> Am I the only one laughing at the weird hypocrisy going on in here?
> 
> The same folks skewering Coach Lansing are giving Barry Hinson under the table handies when he's essentially done the same damn thing at Southern Illinois that Greg has done here. Lansing is 148-142 (.510) overall and 80-82 (.494) in conference to Hinson's was 116-106 (.523) overall and 60-66 (.476) in conference.
> 
> At least Lansing has a NCAA tournament berth, two NIT appearances and the CIT appearance. Hinson has never taking SIU to any postseason tournament. If you think Lansing sucks (and my of you have said that and worse) then it is equally applicable to Barry. If I am missing something, please enlighten me.



I’ll take a stab at this. You’re right, there is some hypocrisy there. I am neither a Hinson supporter or hater. I do feel he handled that post game speech with class. I feel very much the same about Lansing. He says and does the right things in pressers, and takes blame. Like has been said in some of these articles, these coaches know that winning is the bottom line. I also watched the Waltman presser and found it interesting. Two things come to mind. One, these are real people with families and assistants to take care of. I feel like it’s fair to give criticism, but some people go over the line with personal attacks. The other is that I’m thankful that while we’re not winning like we want, we’re also not cheating like many others out there. More than likely GL will be back next year. He has a solid core coming back and by all accounts a strong recruiting class coming in. I just hope he thinks outside the box and changes some schemes next year. Why not, nothing to lose at this point. We’re probably the easiest team in the Valley to scout. Change things up and be less predictable. I do worry that he just doesn’t have the leadership skills to get the players to do what he wants, we’ll see.


----------



## Hooper

Sycamorefan96 said:


> It was definitely rocking last night. I haven't heard it get that loud in an arena since we played Wichita in 2014. Both games were great and the Murray State game definitely was the most fun I've had at a game this season. I felt bad for Jacksonville State because they really took it to the Racers. The lower bowl completely sold out and the sides of the upper bowl sold out. They had to take down the curtain all the way around. The OVC set a single session attendance record last night. Magic Johnson was also at the game sitting three rows in front of me, scouting Ja Morant, which was kind of cool, but that might be a sour topic.



That’s awesome.  Watched it from a Vegas sports book with no sound simultaneously with the MVC tourney.  It looked like the JSU player got fouled in that last-second corner 3 point attempt.  What did you see?


----------



## Daveinth

Jason Svoboda said:


> Am I the only one laughing at the weird hypocrisy going on in here?
> 
> The same folks skewering Coach Lansing are giving Barry Hinson under the table handies when he's essentially done the same damn thing at Southern Illinois that Greg has done here. Lansing is 148-142 (.510) overall and 80-82 (.494) in conference to Hinson's was 116-106 (.523) overall and 60-66 (.476) in conference.
> 
> At least Lansing has a NCAA tournament berth, two NIT appearances and the CIT appearance. Hinson has never taking SIU to any postseason tournament. If you think Lansing sucks (and my of you have said that and worse) then it is equally applicable to Barry. If I am missing something, please enlighten me.



Not a Hinson fan at all but at least he had the balls to admit he wasn't getting the job done there and stepped aside for the good of the program  GL's ego would never allow him to do this .


----------



## IndyTreeFan

You also have to remember, Lansing inherited a program on a definite upswing, while Hinson inherited an absolute dumpster fire. It’s funny, though, that Hinson gets the axe after two straight top-3 seasons and winning 20 last year. I think SIU fans figure that the should be Sweet Sixteen every year like in the early 2000’s. Hate to break it to them, the landscape has changed and it’s now structured specifically to keep them out. 

I don’t think our fan base is at all hypocritical. Our program is stuck in neutral (at best). Hopefully, GL turns it around this year. It would be preferable to losing. Hope springs eternal.


----------



## region rat

IndyTreeFan said:


> You also have to remember, Lansing inherited a program on a definite upswing, while Hinson inherited an absolute dumpster fire. It’s funny, though, that Hinson gets the axe after two straight top-3 seasons and winning 20 last year. I think SIU fans figure that the should be Sweet Sixteen every year like in the early 2000’s. Hate to break it to them, the landscape has changed and it’s now structured specifically to keep them out.
> 
> I don’t think our fan base is at all hypocritical. Our program is stuck in neutral (at best). Hopefully, GL turns it around this year. It would be preferable to losing. Hope springs eternal.



Too many obstacles for Lansing to over come but some the current legal items regarding pay to play may even the recruiting.  ISU has a good group of players hopefully for next year.  Need some bigger players.  Bronson will be good but needs another big to be a backup.  The new recruit looks promising but will need a year or two to develop.


----------



## ISUCC

And we have Bradley vs UNI tomorrow for the MVC title, good lord, but good for them, neither team quit. 

Whoever wins will be a 15 seed, or worse if UNI wins. UNI is 2 games under .500


----------



## Southgrad07

Ugly ass two semi games..but as you said at least they all showed fight..this will be the worst valley champion in...well idk when


----------



## Bluethunder

Have to feel for Drake. Already down two starters and then a third goes down in the first game of Arch Madness on a play he wasn’t even involved in. Showed a ton of heart staying with UNI despite the injuries. Really was hoping Drake would win the conference. 


Guess I will root for Bradley. Really dont want to see the league represented by a sub .500 team.


----------



## Southgrad07

Bluethunder said:


> Have to feel for Drake. Already down two starters and then a third goes down in the first game of Arch Madness on a play he wasn’t even involved in. Showed a ton of heart staying with UNI despite the injuries. Really was hoping Drake would win the conference.
> 
> 
> Guess I will root for Bradley. Really dont want to see the league represented by a sub .500 team.



No doubt. Drake was the best story and major props to them..not only did they share the league despite returning like 1 guy off their team,  but they lose their top 3 guys and still fight to the end in the semis..this is why so many were frustrated..it's not like we were playing in the valley of ten years ago..or even last year


----------



## Gotta Hav

Southgrad07 said:


> Ugly ass two semi games..but as you said at least they all showed fight..*this will be the worst valley champion in...well idk* when



I disagree on the ugly ass...it seemed to me like some of the hardest fought Arch Madness games EVER.

And who is the worst Valley Champion in well since who?  Come on tell us.  

Is it Loyola who went to the Final Four last year?

Is it Wichita State who went to the Final Four in 2013, and the Sweet 16 in 2014?  I'll NOT mention their NIT Championship in 2011 and all of their other NCAA tournament wins.

Is it UNI and recent their upset wins over Kansas and Texas?

Even Creighton's win over Cincinnati in the NCAA Tournament in 2013 was a BIG win for the Valley.

So the honest fact is, the worse Valley Champion in the last 8+ years or so is us......that is unless you have another pick.  If you have one worse than us, let us know.


----------



## Bluethunder

Gotta Hav said:


> I disagree on the ugly ass...it seemed to me like some of the hardest fought Arch Madness games EVER.
> 
> And who is the worst Valley Champion in well since who?  Come on tell us.
> 
> Is it Loyola who went to the Final Four last year?
> 
> Is it Wichita State who went to the Final Four in 2013, and the Sweet 16 in 2014?  I'll NOT mention their NIT Championship in 2011 and all of their other NCAA tournament wins.
> 
> Is it UNI and recent their upset wins over Kansas and Texas?
> 
> Even Creighton's win over Cincinnati in the NCAA Tournament in 2013 was a BIG win for the Valley.
> 
> So the honest fact is, the worse Valley Champion in the last 8+ years or so is us......that is unless you have another pick.  If you have one worse than us, let us know.



Man, so now we are going to start running down the teams from State that made the tournament too?  I know it's been a rough couple of years, but thought we could at least all still enjoy the bright spots the program has had.  Now we have to crap on those teams too?


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## Southgrad07

Our 11 team would destroy either of these teams. Our 14 team that lost to Wichita would too.


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## sycamore tuff

Southgrad07 said:


> Ugly ass two semi games..but as you said at least they all showed fight..this will be the worst valley champion in...well idk when



Have to disagree.  That first game was the best game of basketball I have seen this year.  I don't think the lead ever got to more than 7 or 8 in either game and all 4 teams worked their tails off.  Very enjoyable to watch.  I'm glad I made the trip.  Hopefully the game today will be as exciting.  The only negative is that the fans of the mvc schools seem to want to leave the arena when their team is not playing.  I only go for saturday and sunday so I haven't seen us play since 2014.


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## Sycamorefan96

Hooper said:


> That’s awesome.  Watched it from a Vegas sports book with no sound simultaneously with the MVC tourney.  It looked like the JSU player got fouled in that last-second corner 3 point attempt.  What did you see?



I didn't see it, but I was paying more attention to the ball than any fouls.

I watched the 2nd half of the championship game last night on ESPN2 after I got to the hotel from Arch Madness and saw the OVC broke their own attendance record from the night before. It's too bad we have poor leadership in the MVC and can't get them in the MVC.


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## meistro

In this league, defense wins championships. We only played good defense in a handful of games this year. That should be priority #1 this off season. Then of course, we’ve got to do something about our offense and out of bounds plays. Lot of work to do.


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## Buckhorn

Sycamorefan96 said:


> ...I watched the 2nd half of the championship game last night on ESPN2 after I got to the hotel from Arch Madness and saw the *OVC broke their own attendance record from the night before.* It's too bad we have poor leadership in the MVC and can't get them in the MVC.



https://www.courierpress.com/story/...ront-more-than-10-000-ford-center/3068906002/

Evansville knows HOW to host a tournament (how many years did they host the Small College Finals?), and given their proximity to the usual top two (2) schools (Murray, KY & Nashville), are a great weekend getaway. Everything is compact & within walking distance in the downtown area. Once TH completes the HC/Convention Center remodel & Casino operational, they'll be similarly equipped.

Of course, it also helps to have a projected #1-3 NBA lottery pick playing in the tournament and Magic Johnson in the crowd!


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## IndyTreeFan

Buckhorn said:


> https://www.courierpress.com/story/...ront-more-than-10-000-ford-center/3068906002/
> 
> Evansville knows HOW to host a tournament (how many years did they host the Small College Finals?), and given their proximity to the usual top two (2) schools (Murray, KY & Nashville), are a great weekend getaway. Everything is compact & within walking distance in the downtown area. *Once TH completes the HC/Convention Center remodel & Casino operational, they'll be similarly equipped.*
> 
> Of course, it also helps to have a projected #1-3 NBA lottery pick playing in the tournament and Magic Johnson in the crowd!



I hope Terre Haute bids on events like this. Although I’m not sure Hulman Center will be dynamic enough to pull it off. But ‘ya gotta try. Terre Haute knows how to host championships - they’ve done it better for decades. 

Maybe the D-II Final Four, or some smaller conference tournaments. Could be fun!


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## Gotta Hav

Bluethunder said:


> Man, so now we are going to start running down the teams from State that made the tournament too?  I know it's been a rough couple of years, but thought we could at least all still enjoy the bright spots the program has had.  Now we have to crap on those teams too?



Get off your high horse and re-read 07's post.  Just stating facts. Isn't the MVC UNDEFEATED in First Round NCAA games since 2011?  Yes or no.  So the worst champion since then is us.


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## Bluethunder

Gotta Hav said:


> Get off your high horse and re-read 07's post.  Just stating facts. Isn't the MVC UNDEFEATED in First Round NCAA games since 2011?  Yes or no.  So the worst champion since then is us.



High horse huh?  What does that even mean in this situation?  Most of the board has been about trashing the team and program for the last half of the year (some deserved, some not) and now you decide to take a comment Southgrad made about this being two of the weakest teams in an Arch Madness final (which is true and hard to argue against) and you turn it into an opportunity to take a shot at one of our better teams in the last twenty years. 

That team should be celebrated, not torn down. It was completely unnecessary to make and if you can't see that, and want to try and turn it into something about me instead, then I can't help you.  

If we can't leave the winning teams alone while we are tearing down the losing teams, then what are we doing here?


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## Buckhorn

IndyTreeFan said:


> I hope Terre Haute bids on events like this. Although I’m not sure Hulman Center will be dynamic enough to pull it off. But ‘ya gotta try. Terre Haute knows how to host championships - they’ve done it better for decades.
> 
> Maybe the D-II Final Four, or some smaller conference tournaments. Could be fun!



With the GLVC the #1 conference in America, the Div II Finals would be a an excellent fit. :thumbsup:


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## Bluethunder

Another year and another opportunity to miss half of the MVC final due to the game before it running long. I don’t know what the conference gets for having it on CBs but if every year the nation misses the first half of the game it probably isn’t worth it.


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## meistro

Ugly game so far. I guess that’s what you get with two mediocre teams.


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## IndyTreeFan

meistro said:


> Ugly game so far. I guess that’s what you get with two mediocre teams.



As fans of Indiana State, we have exactly ZERO business denigrating teams who win their way to the Arch Madness finals!  At least they have a chance to be a 15 seed. We certainly don’t get that chance!  :lol:


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## Bluethunder

IndyTreeFan said:


> As fans of Indiana State, we have exactly ZERO business denigrating teams who win their way to the Arch Madness finals!  At least they have a chance to be a 15 seed. We certainly don’t get that chance!  :lol:



I'm going to denigrate any team that scores 15 points in the first half.

Say what you will about Indiana State but we wouldn't look out of place in this final.  We could score over 15 points.  Might not be able to stop UNI, but we could at least score more than 15.

Good Lord, this game is doing nothing positive for the league.  Man I wish Drake would have won yesterday.  More fun team to watch and a great story to boot.


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## niklz62

I for one, love upsets and conflict. It makes me happy to see Lyola and Drake to conbone for 44 meaningless wins.


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## IndyTreeFan

Bluethunder said:


> Say what you will about Indiana State but we wouldn't look out of place in this final.  We could score over 15 points.  Might not be able to stop UNI, but we could at least score more than 15.



Possibly true, but we’d actually have to get there first...


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## Bluethunder

IndyTreeFan said:


> Possibly true, but we’d actually have to get there first...



It's got to happen again sometime,........doesn't it?


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## Buckhorn

See below


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## Buckhorn

Sad to see Drake lose their #1 player (McGlynn) to a knee injury after just 7 min of p/t in Friday's IL St game. Simply an injury that few squads could overcome via team depth.

This slop fest on CBS-TV is an embarrassment. Murray St. or Belmont could blast either one of these teams off the court. Just further evidence of how bad the MVC was this past season.


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## Bluethunder

And just like that it’s become a good game


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## niklz62

Well at least if UNI wins they wil have a .500 record with the win


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## ISUCC

gonna be an exciting finish here! Would like to see Bradley win, or if UNI wins hopefully they're a 17 seed and can win their first NCAA play in game to get to a 16 seed. That would keep the MVC streak alive of winning a first game in the NCAA tourney since we lost to Syracuse back in 2011


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## meistro

Glad to see Bradley come back and make it an exciting finish.


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## meistro

IndyTreeFan said:


> As fans of Indiana State, we have exactly ZERO business denigrating teams who win their way to the Arch Madness finals!  At least they have a chance to be a 15 seed. We certainly don’t get that chance!  :lol:



That first half was ugly, and these are two mediocre teams. We just blew out UNI a week ago.


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## Bluethunder

Huge call there


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## Bluethunder

N Iowa with a travel not called. Instead get an And 1


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## Bluethunder

Bradley outscores UNI 40-19 down the stretch and wins by 3. Wow.


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## treeman

Panthers miss a S16 with an insane ending for the ages and now miss a trip to the NCAAs after blowing a huge lead.


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## Buckhorn

*Tale of Two Teams*

1/5/19 ISU def. Bradley @ Terre Haute 65-60

2/9/19 Bradley def. ISU @ Peoria 96-67

3/10 Bradley wins MVC Arch Madness & lone bid to NCAA Tourney.


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## Bluethunder

Going to guess Bradley ends up with a 14 seed.  Down year for the conference and many have predicted a 15 seed, but they did win 20 games.  I guess a lot of it depends on the overall record of the small conference champions.  If there are upsets in some of those and their winners are all sitting at 15-16 or something, then Bradley will have a higher seed.  If many of their conference champions are the #1 seeds from their tournament and are 24-8 or something, Bradley may move down.  I still think they will end up with a 14.


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## TreeTop

Bluethunder said:


> Going to guess Bradley ends up with a 14 seed.  Down year for the conference and many have predicted a 15 seed, but they did win 20 games.  I guess a lot of it depends on the overall record of the small conference champions.  If there are upsets in some of those and their winners are all sitting at 15-16 or something, then Bradley will have a higher seed.  If many of their conference champions are the #1 seeds from their tournament and are 24-8 or something, Bradley may move down.  I still think they will end up with a 14.



Agreed, they'll get a 14 seed.

Last team (and only team) to win Arch Madness as a 5-seed, and to be a 20-game winner, was ISU in 2011...a 14 seed.

There are too many low-major leagues  in the NCAA for the Valley to ever have a 15-seed in a 68-team tourney....unless, I guess, if a Thursday night cellar dweller wins the MVC tourney miraculously.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Bluethunder said:


> High horse huh?  What does that even mean in this situation?  Most of the board has been about trashing the team and program for the last half of the year (some deserved, some not) and now you decide to take a comment Southgrad made about this being two of the weakest teams in an Arch Madness final (which is true and hard to argue against) and you turn it into an opportunity to take a shot at one of our better teams in the last twenty years.
> 
> That team should be celebrated, not torn down. It was completely unnecessary to make and if you can't see that, and want to try and turn it into something about me instead, then I can't help you.
> 
> If we can't leave the winning teams alone while we are tearing down the losing teams, then what are we doing here?




You're strange....always above it all like some kind of Saint...and then turn it around as if this was about you.  LOL!!!  Talk about EGO!  

And what is it with you, and several other with 07?   You act like he can't respond to HIS own posts without you and others rescuing him.  SSOM was notorious for doing the same. And I see you got the usual likes from your clique. LOL!  Are you guys all brothers, and he's your lil bitty brother?  Maybe he's your lil sister.  Is that it?  

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.  *"Ugly ass two semi games..but as you said at least they all showed fight..this will be the worst valley champion in...well idk when"*    Southgrad NEVER said anything about the weakest teams in a Arch Madness final.  YOU DID.  

If WE weren't the worse valley champion since 2011, who was?

The Valley is 7-1 in 1st Round NCAA Tournament games since 2011 and that ONLY LOSS was by US.  THAT'S ALMOST A WHOLE DECADE!!!  Maybe you should get a job in the MSM since you can't face the facts. 

And in stating the 7-1 FACTS.  *THAT IS NOT TEARING OUR TEAM DOWN.*  That's YOU reading that into that...which must be your HOBBY, or favorite pastime.   4q_iu thought about changing his blog name to 4Q_GH.  Maybe should steal it and use it for yourself.


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## Bluethunder

Glad you got that off your chest.  Hope you feel better.


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## Bluethunder

Drake and Loyola tied for first place, Loyola got the number one seed in Arch Madness, both lost in the tournament, so does that mean only Loyola gets the automatic bid to the NIT?

I am assuming that is right only because I am pretty sure Drake lost both times to Loyola.

I guess it is possible Drake could get an NIT bid, although with the luck they have had this season, I will be surprised if they pick up one. More likely the CBI or CIT or whatever other tourney has been created recently that I have barely heard of.


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## 4Q_iu

Drake has a legit claim to an NIT bid, though the NCAA will likely stuff this year's NIT with "power 5" teams such as the horrid team from gloomington, indiana; the equally flaccid team from columbus, oh.

With Wofford taking the Southern Conf title; will the Valley's co-champ get a bid over Furman or UNC_Greensboro?

The NIT selection will take place March 17. The "NIT Selection  Special" is scheduled to air live on ESPNU at approximately 8:30 p.m. ET  following the NCAA Tournament bracket reveal on Selection Sunday, which is broadcast on CBS.

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa...tion-bracket-reveal/4jvoy3zffow61f9ri7gzfm0ze


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## TreeTop

Regarding Drake...It'll interesting to see, as they were crowned regular season co-champs, I thought both Drake and Loyola would get auto-bids to the NIT.


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## 4Q_iu

TreeTop said:


> Regarding Drake...It'll interesting to see, as they were crowned regular season co-champs, I thought both Drake and Loyola would get auto-bids to the NIT.




I'd venture that Loyola gets the auto bid as they swept Drake during conf play...  Drake should still rate an at-large...    if j. palm is correct that 3 SoCon teams make the NCAA, that'll hurt a school like Drake as the NCAA capos would put a gloomington or ohio $tate in the NIT over a Drake...    And as Gonzaga is now a "lock" for an at-large due to St Mary's winning, that's another bubble team being pushed into the NIT...  and it won't be a 'power 5' bubble team, it'll be a mid-major, lo bubble team


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## TreeTop

TreeTop said:


> Agreed, they'll get a 14 seed.
> 
> Last team (and only team) to win Arch Madness as a 5-seed, and to be a 20-game winner, was ISU in 2011...a 14 seed.
> 
> There are too many low-major leagues  in the NCAA for the Valley to ever have a 15-seed in a 68-team tourney....unless, I guess, if a Thursday night cellar dweller wins the MVC tourney miraculously.



Shows you what I know, Bradley is a 15seed.


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## Bluethunder

I know as a Valley member I’m supposed to root for the other Valley schools in cases like this but after Bradley (and more specifically Wardell) whines about the local press I wouldn’t mind seeing Michigan State pound the hell out of them.


----------



## ISUCC

Bluethunder said:


> I know as a Valley member I’m supposed to roof for the other Valley schools in cases like this but after Bradley (and more specifically Wardell) whines about the local press I wouldn’t mind seeing Michigan State pound the hell out of them.



I agree, I'd normally root for Bradley too, but after what they did to Dave Reynolds I hope they lose by 50


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> I agree, I'd normally root for Bradley too, but after what they did to Dave Reynolds I hope they lose by 50



Holy shit Wardle is a fucking douchebag. 

Yeah, I'm down with them getting skunked by 50 and never winning another game with him at the helm. Talk about a major league bitch. Love the school is now in full out back pedal mode. Too late.


----------



## 4Q_iu

ISUCC said:


> I agree, I'd normally root for Bradley too, but after what they did to Dave Reynolds I hope they lose by 50



Guarantee Bradley will NOT be in the receiving end of any national good will...  Way to foul up the karma  wardle


----------



## TreeTop

Funny, as I was filling out my bracket, I had the same thought...zero interest in Bradley pulling an upset.


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## TreeTop

Derrick Smits transferring from Valpo...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Derrik Smits is transferring from Valparaiso University as a post grad w/ one year of eligibility remaining.<br><br>The 7’1" center (12.2 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 59.4 FG%) also plans to enter the NBA Draft process.</p>— Jim Reamer (@JWReamer) <a href="https://twitter.com/JWReamer/status/1107671245649334274?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## Jason Svoboda

This one hits hard:


Valparaiso G Javon Freeman-Liberty (FR) is leaving the program. (HT @EvanDaniels) https://t.co/mWrQLLQClk— Verbal Commits (@VerbalCommits) March 19, 2019



I think Valpo just laid claim to last place in the Valley unless they have some impact players coming in that I don't know about?


----------



## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> This one hits hard:
> 
> 
> Valparaiso G Javon Freeman-Liberty (FR) is leaving the program. (HT @EvanDaniels) https://t.co/mWrQLLQClk— Verbal Commits (@VerbalCommits) March 19, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> I think Valpo just laid claim to last place in the Valley unless they have some impact players coming in that I don't know about?

They have the transfer from Seton Hall, one of the Gordon brothers.  And they have Nick Robinson from St. Joseph's (former ISU verbal)...both eligible next year.  BUT...without Freeman and Smits, not sure it'll be enough.


----------



## TreeTop

Three in two days for Valpo...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bakari Evelyn plans to leave <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Valparaiso?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Valparaiso</a> as a graduate transfer.</p>— Michael Osipoff (@MichaelOsipoff) <a href="https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1108097029497110532?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Three starters at that.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Maybe I'm the only one, but I am still rooting for Bradley no matter how far they get. The more they win, the more money we get.


----------



## Bluethunder

Valpo fans already didn’t like their coach. This ain’t helping.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Yes, I will be pulling for Bradley.  The people who think we should not expand the conference and then root against Bradley winning need to shut their traps.


----------



## TreeTop

It's not so much that I (personally) am rooting against Bradley, as it is that I'm just indifferent to their appearance in the tourney.  Wardle and company screwed the pooch.

With that said, if they defeat Michigan State and then make it to the Sweet 16, I'll certainly take notice and root for the players, sure.  It's hard not to cheer for the underdog.  But in the meantime, there are many many more games I'm much more interested in.


----------



## 4Q_iu

TreeTop said:


> It's not so much that I (personally) am rooting against Bradley, as it is that I'm just indifferent to their appearance in the tourney.  Wardle and company screwed the pooch.
> 
> With that said, if they defeat Michigan State and then make it to the Sweet 16, I'll certainly take notice and root for the players, sure.  It's hard not to cheer for the underdog.  But in the meantime, there are many many more games I'm much more interested in.



Wardle grovelling...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nc...over-targeting-reporter/ar-BBV1luG?li=BBnb7Kz


----------



## TreeTop

Marcus Golder at Valpo is exploring grad transfer options.

That would be FOUR Valpo transfers.  Ouch.


----------



## ISUCC

Congrats to Drake, they received a $3 million dollar gift for basketball today! Story in Des Moines Register


----------



## Buckhorn

UE has "passed" on 6'9"  IL State/TN JC transfer Damontay Dixon and signed another 6'8" kid w/ 7' wingspan. Word on the UE Board was that Dixon didn't have the JC grades! Didn't realize that TN had a "Harvard-like" JC...

https://www.courierpress.com/story/...t-2020-commit-johnathan-dejurnett/4062513002/

2-mos old story re: Dixon:

https://www.courierpress.com/story/...ay-dixon-leaving-open-scholarship/2073539001/


----------

