# [January 17, 2016] Indiana State (10-7) at Wichita State (11-5)



## Jason Svoboda

vs. 






*Indiana State Sycamores (10-7) vs. Wichita State Shockers (11-5)
*​*
Koch Arena - Wichita, KS​Sunday, January 17, 2016​4:00 PM EST Tip​*


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## TreeTop

Yes.


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## KBASSER

ISU/Wichita State game viewing.  Southern Indiana/Louisville area ISU/Wichita State game viewing.  We are having a gathering at Roosters in Clarksville, Indiana to view the game.  Please join us and other alumni and Sycamore fans for the game.  Where: Roosters, Clarksville, Indiana.  When: January 17 at 4:00PM. Activity: Watch the ISU/Wichita State game on ESPN3.  Hope to see and meet some folks there.  By the way, Roosters has GREAT Chicken Wings!  GO SYCAMORES!


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## Jason Svoboda

Most of their fans are predicting 15-20 point wins or making fun of folks from here. Classy bunch over there.

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthr...ana-State-Predictions-and-Pregame-Discussions


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## skdent1414

I for one am not afraid of this Wichita State bunch. Look at our past games this season and look at themes. We lock up opposing guards, this is what we do. That happens to be wichita's strength. If you look at our wins and losses they back up this point. We locked up a couple of the nations top scoring guards in Adams from Wyoming and Green from Hofstra. We locked up Balentine through about 30 minutes of gameplay. 

It's the athletic wings and bigs that have beaten us. We let Martin and Dunham from Butler have great games, Peters from Valpo got us, and Mock from E'ville. 

I'm not so sure this Shokers team has the front court and wing options that could stick it to us. If our guards stay committed to lock down D as they have all year, we can win. We can't let the role players beat us, and we can't let the crowd beat us.


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## Southgrad07

skdent1414 said:


> I for one am not afraid of this Wichita State bunch. Look at our past games this season and look at themes. We lock up opposing guards, this is what we do. That happens to be wichita's strength. If you look at our wins and losses they back up this point. We locked up a couple of the nations top scoring guards in Adams from Wyoming and Green from Hofstra. We locked up Balentine through about 30 minutes of gameplay.
> 
> It's the athletic wings and bigs that have beaten us. We let Martin and Dunham from Butler have great games, Peters from Valpo got us, and Mock from E'ville.
> 
> I'm not so sure this Shokers team has the front court and wing options that could stick it to us. If our guards stay committed to lock down D as they have all year, we can win. We can't let the role players beat us, and we can't let the crowd beat us.



Last sentence is very important. Their crowd will be a huge test for our new players who have never seen it before. Also Brown has really struggled against WSU offensively over the years. This has to change for us to have a shot at their place. Excited to see how we stack up with the cream of the crop.


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## BrokerZ

I'll be behind enemy lines and in-person for this game - I'm really looking forward to it.  I hear the atmosphere is awesome, which I'm sure it is from what I've seen on TV.  I have much respect for the Shocker fans, they have a good team and they cheer like hell for them.  I'll be cheering like hell for our Sycamores!

As for our 2-4 road record, you almost have to throw out our non-conference schedule.  We are holistically a different team today than we were in the non-con.  We've established roles for everybody and the team is clicking on all cylinders within those roles.  We're as hot as a team can get right now with double-digit wins in our last four games.  Nevertheless, Koch Arena is like no other place we'll play this year; thankfully, we have a rather experienced team that has played many games there in the past.


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## TreeTop

At The Roundhouse during the KSmith and DBrown era...

2013 WIN 68-55 http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330292724

2014 Loss 68-48 http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400500078

2015 Loss 74-57 http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400586454


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## TreeTop

Don't want to start a whole new thread just for this question, so just posting it hear.

Are there any players on this season's team who were recruited (initially), on McKenna's watch?  Or are all these guys "products" of the Lansing head coach era?  Also, is this the first season in which every player is a product of the Lansing era?


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## Jason Svoboda

Quabachi said:


> Don't want to start a whole new thread just for this question, so just posting it hear.
> 
> Are there any players on this season's team who were recruited (initially), on McKenna's watch?  Or are all these guys "products" of the Lansing head coach era?  Also, is this the first season in which every player is a product of the Lansing era?



All Lansing I do believe. The last recruits from McKenna aged off last year.


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## BrokerZ

Quabachi said:


> Don't want to start a whole new thread just for this question, so just posting it hear.
> 
> Are there any players on this season's team who were recruited (initially), on McKenna's watch?  Or are all these guys "products" of the Lansing head coach era?  Also, is this the first season in which every player is a product of the Lansing era?



There may be a chance that Khristian Smith was softly recruited by McKenna & Co. prior to going to prep school, but even then I would consider him a Lansing recruit.


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## BrokerZ

Another nugget of information that surprised me: we lead the MVC in team 3PT FG% defense.  Teams are only shooting 28.7% from behind the arc against us in our first 5 conference games.  Illinois State (38.5 %), UNI (35.5%) and Drake (35.4%) are all within or a rounding-error within the top half of the conference in 3PT FG%, so we're limiting the effectiveness of what are normally really good three point shooting teams.  

WSU is shooting 38.2% as a team from three in conference play, largely due to Frankamp being eligible and shooting well.  Point is - we'll need to continue to defend the three as well as we have in the last 5 games in order to have a shot on Sunday.

We also lead the league in total rebounding.  Rebounding and defending the three have been Lansing-era bugaboos, but this year in conference play we've reversed fortune and they now appear to be strengths.


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## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Another nugget of information that surprised me: we lead the MVC in team 3PT FG% defense.  Teams are only shooting 28.7% from behind the arc against us in our first 5 conference games.  Illinois State (38.5 %), UNI (35.5%) and Drake (35.4%) are all within or a rounding-error within the top half of the conference in 3PT FG%, so we're limiting the effectiveness of what are normally really good three point shooting teams.
> 
> WSU is shooting 38.2% as a team from three in conference play, largely due to Frankamp being eligible and shooting well.  Point is - we'll need to continue to defend the three as well as we have in the last 5 games in order to have a shot on Sunday.
> 
> We also lead the league in total rebounding.  Rebounding and defending the three have been Lansing-era bugaboos, but this year in conference play we've reversed fortune and they now appear to be strengths.



Another thing to notice is how many 3s WSU has shot.


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## Bluethunder

Jason Svoboda said:


> Most of their fans are predicting 15-20 point wins or making fun of folks from here. Classy bunch over there.



And this surprises you.......why? 

If they were anything other than arrogant how would we know they were shocker fans?


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## Wudizzle

Bluethunder said:


> And this surprises you.......why?
> 
> If they were anything other than arrogant how would we know they were shocker fans?


In the last 2+ Valley seasons WSU is 40-1. In what possible way is it arrogant for a WSU fan to predict a win at home?

Great start to the Valley slate for Indiana State. I haven't had a chance to see much Sycamore basketball the last 6 weeks or so. What has changed that has made the team start clicking?


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## Gotta Hav

I'm going to go ISUCC on this thread and PREDICT a Sycamore LOSS against the SHOCKERS.

Now why am I doing that?   Ohhhh let's see....two names come to mind.

Ron Baker who declined being drafted by the NBA and FVV....who, if he was 6'4" like Baker, would also be an NBA Draft Pick, and as tough as FVV is.....he still may play in the NBA.

Plus...they got other playas.....and that Freshman of theirs, Markis McDuffie may also be a future NBA pick.

Now with all of that said...anything can happen.  

Now if we do beat WSU at WSU.....that will say a whole lot about this years TREES, and what the rest of the season may bring, and the possibilities of what may happen in the MVC Tournament.


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## bent20

If we lose to the Shockers and still find a way to win at SIU and home against Evansville, it will still be one heck of a run. And the schedule gets easier after that.


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## sycamorebacker

Wudizzle said:


> In the last 2+ Valley seasons WSU is 40-1. In what possible way is it arrogant for a WSU fan to predict a win at home?
> 
> Great start to the Valley slate for Indiana State. I haven't had a chance to see much Sycamore basketball the last 6 weeks or so. What has changed that has made the team start clicking?



I think it's just the players finding their roles and playing as a team.  Our rebounding and defense are team efforts.  We are playing a shorter bench now.  Shooting confidence by Brown.  Scott has more confidence in his role.  Our 3 bigs have all marginally improved their defense.


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## Bluethunder

Nothing to get excited about with this game.  It is one more out of another 13.  Its a road game so a loss doesn't really hurt and a win is a bonus.  Just would like to see us continue to play well and come closer to playing a full game, as opposed to starting off slow and then having to play catchup in the second half.

Win or lose I just want to see more of a complete, 40 minute effort.


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## sycamorebacker

I imagine most of us penciled this in as a loss.  I just want the team to battle and then maintain their confidence if they lose.  The SIU game will be interesting, and I REALLY want to beat UE here.


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## Elder Tracy D. Smith

sycamorebacker said:


> I imagine most of us penciled this in as a loss.  I just want the team to battle and then maintain their confidence if they lose.  The SIU game will be interesting, and I REALLY want to beat UE here.


Oh NO... I penned this in as a Vic...tor...y [emoji383]


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## sycamorebacker

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> Oh NO... I penned this in as a Vic...tor...y [emoji383]



Did you use ink?


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## Elder Tracy D. Smith

sycamorebacker said:


> Did you use ink?


FOR SURE.. black ink, which makes it a legal, binding contract.


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## Jason Svoboda

Wudizzle said:


> In the last 2+ Valley seasons WSU is 40-1. In what possible way is it arrogant for a WSU fan to predict a win at home?
> 
> Great start to the Valley slate for Indiana State. I haven't had a chance to see much Sycamore basketball the last 6 weeks or so. What has changed that has made the team start clicking?



You guys are no doubt the king of the hill and THE program in the Valley right now that everyone aspires to be. 

My problem lies in the way it is flaunted. There is something to be said about humility and a large majority of your fan base doesn't have it. For example, back in 2011 when we won the MVC Tournament, there were several Shocker fans that came to our send off at our team hotel looking to buy tickets telling people "you won't need them after today" and then after we beat you that day, damn near every Shockers fan I came across was sore and rude. But to come to our team hotel during a scheduled event like that just reeked of no class. Yes, I know it isn't your entire fan base, but just reading your prediction threads further cement that fact that it may be the majority.

Be gracious in defeat and humble in victory.


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## Divergence

I looked at the predictions.  There is nothing out of line and in fact they are not even being rude.  ISUB has did nothing this season to make anybody think they are going to go to Wichita and upset WSU.  If you want respect for your program then:

1.  Do better than 1-4 versus Top 100
2.  Don't lose games against 200+ RPI teams
3.  Learn how to win on the road (2-4)
4.  Get a quality non-conference schedule that gives you at chance at-large resume and win them.


Wolves don't worry about the opinion of sheep.


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## bluestreak

Divergence said:


> I looked at the predictions.  There is nothing out of line and in fact they are not even being rude.  ISUB has did nothing this season to make anybody think they are going to go to Wichita and upset WSU.  If you want respect for your program then:
> 
> 1.  Do better than 1-4 versus Top 100
> 2.  Don't lose games against 200+ RPI teams
> 3.  Learn how to win on the road (2-4)
> 4.  Get a quality non-conference schedule that gives you at chance at-large resume and win them.
> 
> 
> Wolves don't worry about the opinion of sheep.



If you're gonna use hackneyed phrases at least reach down a little deeper than a "sheep" quote... maybe something like this;

Walter Sobchak: Am I wrong?
The Dude: No you're not wrong.
Walter Sobchak: Am I wrong?
The Dude: You're not wrong Walter. You're just an asshole.
Walter Sobchak: Okay then.


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## LoudNProud

Divergence said:


> I looked at the predictions.  There is nothing out of line and in fact they are not even being rude.  ISUB has did nothing this season to make anybody think they are going to go to Wichita and upset WSU.  If you want respect for your program then:
> 
> 1.  Do better than 1-4 versus Top 100
> 2.  Don't lose games against 200+ RPI teams
> 3.  Learn how to win on the road (2-4)
> 4.  Get a quality non-conference schedule that gives you at chance at-large resume and win them.
> 
> 
> Wolves don't worry about the opinion of sheep.



You're an entire bag of dicks.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Divergence said:


> Wolves don't worry about the opinion of sheep.




Then why in the hell are you here?? Go troll MVCFans this isn't that place. We have 3 or 4 fans on this forum that post on MFCFans, go talk to them about Indiana State. Don't come over here and try and poke people. You are correct, ISU "did nothing" prior to the start of conference play to prove to anyone including our own fans that we could beat anyone once conference play started. As is often the case, the conference season offers a fresh start and the Sycamores have been a different team. All that bull shit you listed is a reflection of our non conference season and has nothing to do with this conversation now. 

You are a pathetic example of a wolf and a Shocker for that matter.


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## bent20

Divergence said:


> Wolves don't worry about the opinion of sheep.



And that's a great example of what Jason is talking about. If you don't worry about our opinion, why are you even here??????


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## RoyalShock

How many of you remember what the CU and SIU fans were like on the boards 8-10 years ago?

It's a product of having a program that either 1) Has strong support, or 2) Has had a streak of good seasons.  If you combine that numbers game with the internet factor, you get a certain quantity of disrespectful fans.  Should the Sycamores have a 3-4 year (or more) run of success, you'll get a few of them, too, as will any fanbase.

As for the game this Sunday, if the Shocks come out as cold as they did against MSU (and given your 3FG% defense, could happen), the outcome could be very different, especially if your defensive rebounding is as good as it appears to be.


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## sycamorebacker

Since defensive rebounding was mentioned:  Has everyone noticed that it appears that our bigs are blocking out and our guards are getting down under the basket and getting a lot of rebounds.  Of course, because we can run, our defensive rebounders are 5 on 3 and our guards are great at going after the ball.  Normally you think of guards as getting long rebounds.  Is it our strategy for the bigs to create space and get in position for the long rebounds and let the guards get inside and under the basket?


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## bluestreak

bluestreak said:


> If you're gonna use hackneyed phrases at least reach down a little deeper than a "sheep" quote... maybe something like this;
> 
> Walter Sobchak: Am I wrong?
> The Dude: No you're not wrong.
> Walter Sobchak: Am I wrong?
> The Dude: You're not wrong Walter. You're just an asshole.
> Walter Sobchak: Okay then.



Heretofor I propose that all WSU trolls be referred to as "Walters", with apologies to John Goodman.


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## BrokerZ

Divergence said:


> I looked at the predictions.  There is nothing out of line and in fact they are not even being rude.  ISUB has did nothing this season to make anybody think they are going to go to Wichita and upset WSU.  If you want respect for your program then:
> 
> 1.  Do better than 1-4 versus Top 100
> 2.  Don't lose games against 200+ RPI teams
> 3.  Learn how to win on the road (2-4)
> 4.  Get a quality non-conference schedule that gives you at chance at-large resume and win them.
> 
> 
> Wolves don't worry about the opinion of sheep.



1. Like WSU's 2-5 record against the RPI top 100?
2. Fine, agreed.  We clearly screwed the pooch in a couple of early non-con games.
3. Because WSU has been doing a lot of that this year, with quality road wins against Bradley and Missouri State.  Your best road win is at SIU, and you lost the only 2 true road games against the RPI top 100.  
4. Not sure what to tell you here.  WSU got in the right tournament in the right year, and promptly lost every game. Congratulations on that.  Otherwise, your non-con consisted of two top-100 teams (Utah and Seton Hall).  Guess what...so did ours (Valparaiso and Butler).

I can't believe I even bothered to look this crap up.  Why is it so hard for some Shocker fans to allow other teams' fans to get excited?  It's like we are somehow disrespecting WSU by not automatically guaranteeing a double-digit WSU win.  It must be a full-time job for some to search the internet for people saying things for which you do not agree.  Sounds tiring.


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## 4Q_iu

I noticed we've played 4 common opponents; Tulsa, St Louis, Evansville & Drake...   both lost to Tulsa, beat St Louis & Drake...  split on Evansville College..

maybe the only 'true test' is the St Louis game as both were AT St Louis...

Either way, we'll know on Sunday ~6:45 EST...

And regardless of the outcome, wichita city college will still be a haven of  fans.


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## BallyPie

sycamorebacker said:


> Since defensive rebounding was mentioned:  Has everyone noticed that it appears that our bigs are blocking out and our guards are getting down under the basket and getting a lot of rebounds.  Of course, because we can run, our defensive rebounders are 5 on 3 and our guards are great at going after the ball.  Normally you think of guards as getting long rebounds.  Is it our strategy for the bigs to create space and get in position for the long rebounds and let the guards get inside and under the basket?



I think is just a matter of circumstance......I think guards these days have a chance to grab a lot of rebounds.....if they have the desire....

1) there are a lot of long rebounds via the 3 point shot
2) a lot of the 2 point shot misses get tipped out to the perimeter
3) since a lot of teams play a motion style offense and we're playing man defense ALL THE TIME...our guards will find themselves under the basket guarding the opposing guards as they are setting picks when shots go up.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> Since defensive rebounding was mentioned:  Has everyone noticed that it appears that our bigs are blocking out and our guards are getting down under the basket and getting a lot of rebounds.  Of course, because we can run, our defensive rebounders are 5 on 3 and our guards are great at going after the ball.  Normally you think of guards as getting long rebounds.  Is it our strategy for the bigs to create space and get in position for the long rebounds and let the guards get inside and under the basket?



I believe that is exactly it. I've noticed a couple times where Murphy/Rickman would be under the basket and then let the ball hit the floor for Clemons or Devonte to get the board. One time I recall seeing Rickman even yank his arms away from the ball when he was the first one there.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> I believe that is exactly it. I've noticed a couple times where Murphy/Rickman would be under the basket and then let the ball hit the floor for Clemons or Devonte to get the board. One time I recall seeing Rickman even yank his arms away from the ball when he was the first one there.



I think it's a great strategy with the guards that we have.  They will be uncontested under there since the offensive guards have to stay out.  Our bigs should have the length to grab the long rebounds if they have blocked out.   
I just noticed that our guards are getting lots of rebounds right underneath the basket and are usually unopposed.


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## BrokerZ

Clemons is 3rd in the entire MVC in rebounding in conference games at 7.6 per game.  That's truly remarkable for PG.  Brown is 6th and Scott is 10th, as well.  Our guards clearly know how to attack the glass!


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## Gotta Hav

4Q_iu said:


> And regardless of the outcome, wichita city college will still be a haven of  fans.



Give em Haitis 4Q!

yeah, Daveinth and I know Shocker fans, and what a-holes some of them are.

After ISU Red beat WSU last year at Scott Trade in the tournament, Dave and I were walking outside to the smoking section and several ISU Red fans were shouting yaahoos about the win, and I was whooping it up with them!!!   We were not being bad sports, people were just celebrating the win over an historical MVC team....one that had just gone undefeated, the previous season!

And this WSU Dad, about 37, clean cut, educated looking, in shape and with the hot wife... and their like 7 and 9 year old kids....told me to shut the Fxxk Up!   And in my own expletive deletive vernacular told him in turn, to go have sex with himself.   Then he got up in my grill, and did some shut more the FxxK ups, followed by more poetry from me.  

Then I said something like, geezus h Christopher ya douche bag, you're going to go the NCAA tournament, and you're going to get a great seed, regardless of what happens....so chill out.

Then the ever peaceful Dave, tells me to knock it off....which I immediately snapped-to and followed his orders cuz I believe it was his turn to by the next round of beers, and I wasn't about to screw that up......but the dude was a total nimrod.   I'm sure his wife and the other Shocker in the area, were as equally as proud of him.


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## BankShot

sycamorebacker said:


> I think it's a great strategy with the guards that we have.  They will be uncontested under there since the offensive guards have to stay out.  Our bigs should have the length to grab the long rebounds if they have blocked out.
> I just noticed that our guards are getting lots of rebounds right underneath the basket and are usually unopposed.



...and it increases the pace of transition, which teams w/ short benches struggle with (did you see UNI's players huffin & puff'n?). Having good back court depth, this is a real advantage for ISU -  ALONG WITH the 3/4 court diamond press. I noticed that Iowa used this same strategy in blowing away Mich St. @ East Lansing last night!


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## BankShot

Gotta Hav said:


> Give em Haitis 4Q!
> 
> yeah, Daveinth and I know Shocker fans, and what a-holes some of them are.
> 
> After ISU Red beat WSU last year at Scott Trade in the tournament, Dave and I were walking outside to the smoking section and several ISU Red fans were shouting yaahoos about the win, and I was whooping it up with them!!!   We were not being bad sports, people were just celebrating the win over an historical MVC team....one that had just gone undefeated, the previous season!
> 
> And this WSU Dad, about 37, clean cut, educated looking, in shape and with the hot wife... and their like 7 and 9 year old kids....told me to shut the Fxxk Up!   And in my own expletive deletive vernacular told him in turn, to go have sex with himself.   Then he got up in my grill, and did some shut more the FxxK ups, followed by more poetry from me.
> 
> Then I said something like, geezus h Christopher ya douche bag, you're going to go the NCAA tournament, and you're going to get a great seed, regardless of what happens....so chill out.
> 
> Then the ever peaceful Dave, tells me to knock it off....which I immediately snapped-to and followed his orders cuz I believe it was his turn to by the next round of beers, and I wasn't about to screw that up......but the dude was a total nimrod.   I'm sure his wife and the other Shocker in the area, were as equally as proud of him.



If this would've happened in TH, RP would've kicked BOTH your asses out of town...something about "loyalty!" :lol:


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## Coach

Wudizzle said:


> In the last 2+ Valley seasons WSU is 40-1. In what possible way is it arrogant for a WSU fan to predict a win at home?
> 
> Great start to the Valley slate for Indiana State. I haven't had a chance to see much Sycamore basketball the last 6 weeks or so. What has changed that has made the team start clicking?



Where is Wichita? Is it in Kansas?  Maybe near Topeka?  I have heard of Lawrence and know where that is.  They play pretty good basketball over that way.


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## BankShot

The easiest way to explain  the location of Wichita, KS...


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## BallyPie

RoyalShock said:


> How many of you remember what the CU and SIU fans were like on the boards 8-10 years ago?
> 
> It's a product of having a program that either 1) Has strong support, or 2) Has had a streak of good seasons.  If you combine that numbers game with the internet factor, you get a certain quantity of disrespectful fans.  Should the Sycamores have a 3-4 year (or more) run of success, you'll get a few of them, too, as will any fanbase.
> 
> As for the game this Sunday, if the Shocks come out as cold as they did against MSU (and given your 3FG% defense, could happen), the outcome could be very different, especially if your defensive rebounding is as good as it appears to be.




Agree Royal......I think every fan base has a few fans that just can't contain themselves.   

Also like your game analysis.....I think we have enough at the guard position to have a chance.   The key to our run lately (as with most teams) is we're just making more shots.....we've getting better ball movement and getting a lot more open looks......and it especially doesn't hurt when the 3 point ball is going down with regularity.    If we make 3s, we'll be in the game a long time.  JMO


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## Sycamore Proud

Well, ya know the Shox fans don't even make my top 3 of obnoxious fans.  Let me explain.  

1.  The loosiers from eye-ewe.  All you have to do is talk to a few of them;  then you will understand.

2.  The birds from Creighton.  Again all you need is to talk to a few.

3.  The puppies from Carbondale.  This is personal--goes back to about '65 or '66.  Three friends an I jummp into a VW Beatle and make the trip.  It was a collection of some of the most rude and arrogant people I have ever met.

4.  The Shox--you have said all that needs to be said.


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## BankShot

Sycamore Proud said:


> Well, ya know the Shox fans don't even make my top 3 of obnoxious fans.  Let me explain.
> 
> 1.  The loosiers from eye-ewe.  All you have to do is talk to a few of them;  then you will understand.
> 
> 2.  The birds from Creighton.  Again all you need is to talk to a few.
> 
> 3.  The puppies from Carbondale.  This is personal--goes back to about '65 or '66.  Three friends an I jummp into a VW Beatle and make the trip.  It was a collection of some of the most rude and arrogant people I have ever met.
> 
> 4.  The Shox--you have said all that needs to be said.



This might've been SIU's "root" of arrogance...in that mid-60's Era:

http://thesouthern.com/centuryteam/...cle_5cfab17c-3d30-11e3-8b96-001a4bcf887a.html

Also, read about the 1966-67 squad:

https://books.google.com/books?id=g...7 SIU-Marquette NIT Championship Game&f=false

Evansville's JERRY SLOAN & SIU's DAVID LEE were teammates @ McCleansboro HS. Sloan ALMOST went to SIU:

http://www.courierpress.com/news/lo...eaten-purple-aces-ep-895540578-325514961.html


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## Jason Svoboda

*Basketball Gameday Central: Sycamores Head West To Wichita State Sunday Afternoon*






The Indiana State Sycamores continue Missouri Valley Conference play on Sunday, January 17 as they begin a two-game road swing with a stop at Wichita State. The game is set for a 4:00 p.m. (ET) tip-off and can be heard locally on 95.9 FM The Duke as well as online via a link on GoSycamores.com. This game will be broadcast world-wide on The Valley On ESPN3. The Sycamores are 10-7 on the season and 4-1 in Missouri Valley Conference play and are winners of four in a row as well as seven of their last eight games. Indiana State battled back early and downed Northern Iowa 74-60 behind a career-high 30 points from Brenton Scott on Wednesday night inside Hulman Center. The Shockers are 11-5, 5-0 MVC and have won six in a row. Ron Baker is averaging 14.8 ppg for the Shockers while Fred VanVleet boasts an 11.1 ppg average. The Sycamores and Shockers are two of the three top defensive teams in the Valley as ranked by field goal percentage defense.

Read more at GoSycamores...


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## bigsportsfan

Shockers -13 in Vegas.


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## BankShot

Put the machetes & clubs down TEMPORARILY...good HUMAN INTEREST story today re: Baker-Van Fleet friendship:

http://www.kansas.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bob-lutz/article55067860.html


----------



## Sycamore Proud

BankShot said:


> Put the machetes & clubs down TEMPORARILY...good HUMAN INTEREST story today re: Baker-Van Fleet friendship:
> 
> http://www.kansas.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bob-lutz/article55067860.html



I will never forget Baker waving his arms encouraging the WS crowd to recognize Jake Odum when he left the floor for the last time in Wichita.  The guy has class.


----------



## Southgrad07

Lots of keys to tomorrows game but I'll be looking for these..

1. Are Brown and B.Scott ready for the big time? Despite their  successes a yr ago (foy and 2nd team all valley) they struggled against the shockers. How do they handle fvv and baker along with that Koch crowd?? Will they lead our guys or wilt under pressure??
2. Center position has to be at worst a wash. They don't have what I would call a great front court , but our guards and wings will have their work cut out for him and need support from Murphy,  Niels, and Rickman. Cannot afford them to play like they did on Wednesday.
3. Rebounding margin. This sycamore team is the best all around rebounding team I've seen in quite some time and will be tested by the shockers. They  are always tops in rebounding margin and it is sure to be a war underneath for extra opportunities.
4. Lansing vs Marshall..everyone knows what a great in game coach Marshall is and Lansing is no bum. Will be interesting to see what type of defensive and offensive adjustments they make as the game unfolds.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamore Proud said:


> Well, ya know the Shox fans don't even make my top 3 of obnoxious fans.  Let me explain.
> 
> 1.  The loosiers from eye-ewe.  All you have to do is talk to a few of them;  then you will understand.
> 
> 2.  The birds from Creighton.  Again all you need is to talk to a few.
> 
> 3.  The puppies from Carbondale.  This is personal--goes back to about '65 or '66.  Three friends an I jummp into a VW Beatle and make the trip.  It was a collection of some of the most rude and arrogant people I have ever met.
> 
> 4.  The Shox--you have said all that needs to be said.



I take it you're only looking at regional fans...   duke, nd and unc are pretty arrogant, worse than siu fans


----------



## Stickboy46

Sycamore Proud said:


> I will never forget Baker waving his arms encouraging the WS crowd to recognize Jake Odum when he left the floor for the last time in Wichita.  The guy has class.



If I remember right, WSU had the ball too.  Ron dribbled by the ISU bench and asked Lansing if he wanted a time out to get Odum out and called it for him.  

That moment and after last year's championship when he pulled a random little girl wearing a baker Jersey out of the crowd and let her cut down his piece of the net.  Those are two things I'll always remember and make me proud to call him a Shocker.


----------



## BrokerZ

Stickboy46 said:


> If I remember right, WSU had the ball too.  Ron dribbled by the ISU bench and asked Lansing if he wanted a time out to get Odum out and called it for him.
> 
> That moment and after last year's championship when he pulled a random little girl wearing a baker Jersey out of the crowd and let her cut down his piece of the net.  Those are two things I'll always remember and make me proud to call him a Shocker.



I'm not debating how good of a guy Baker is, but he did not ask Lansing if he wanted a timeout called.  Odum fouled out of that game (shouldn't have, but that's another debate for another day), and Baker prompted the WSU fans to cheer for Odum's exit from the game.  Classy move for sure, but come on now.


----------



## Stickboy46

BrokerZ said:


> I'm not debating how good of a guy Baker is, but he did not ask Lansing if he wanted a timeout called.  Odum fouled out of that game (shouldn't have, but that's another debate for another day), and Baker prompted the WSU fans to cheer for Odum's exit from the game.  Classy move for sure, but come on now.



No need for the last comment on your quote.  I started that with "if I remember correctly".  Though, I double checked and Odum only had 4 fouls that game.  So no he did not foul out.  

Either way, not a big deal

Edit:  I was incorrect.  He came out during a free throw (middle of  2 shots by cotton)  I remember Ron doing that, so it must have been a different game.  Carry on.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

￼  Just arrived in Wichita safely. #GoSycamores





#TexasSycamoresInTheHouse


----------



## Jason Svoboda




----------



## BallyPie

Here's a did you know........WS has only won the Valley tournament one time in the last 10 years......for as many people they bring over to Scottrade, you'd think they win that every other year......


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

Can anyone tell me what Hotel the team is staying at??


----------



## Southgrad07

No idea and judging from Jason's last post even if I did know I wouldn't put it on here.. Some hilljack might come pitchfork our team to death. Lol


----------



## BrokerZ

Stickboy46 said:


> No need for the last comment on your quote.  I started that with "if I remember correctly".  Though, I double checked and Odum only had 4 fouls that game.  So no he did not foul out.
> 
> Either way, not a big deal
> 
> Edit:  I was incorrect.  He came out during a free throw (middle of  2 shots by cotton)  I remember Ron doing that, so it must have been a different game.  Carry on.



Odum came out between the first and second free throw because that's how substitutions work when one fouls out on a shooting foul.  I remember that game very well for a lot of reasons. 

Ron's a good dude. 'Nuff said.


----------



## TreeTop

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> ￼  Just arrived in Wichita safely. #GoSycamores
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #TexasSycamoresInTheHouse



Really cool Elder!  I know you don't get to see Devonte play "in person" very often so I'm real happy for you!  I hope your Roundhouse experience is a great one.


----------



## ISU_TREE_FAN

BallyPie said:


> Here's a did you know........WS has only won the Valley tournament one time in the last 10 years......for as many people they bring over to Scottrade, you'd think they win that every other year......



Lots of prepaid empty hotel rooms in St. Louis most every year and an interstate traffic jam heading west earlier than planned every time.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

Quabachi said:


> Really cool Elder!  I know you don't get to see Devonte play "in person" very often so I'm real happy for you!  I hope your Roundhouse experience is a great one.


Thank you Sir, I have no doubt that it will be an AWESOME game.[emoji459] [emoji459] [emoji459] [emoji56]


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I'd say that betting line is about right where I would expect to be and right where it should be. A road win at helpless Drake is nothing to be impressed by. That convincing win over UNI looks less and less impressive every time I grab another beer. In other words, as much as we have accomplished by getting off to a nice 4-1 start in Valley play - we aint done anything yet. No one is going to respect us for playing Evansville tough. The Shockers will likely win today but you can earn respect even in defeat today. The Sycamores can decide today what type of team and what type of season we are going to have the rest of the way. We have this conversation every year we get off to a good start, go earn some respect today and if we get a road dub on top of it drink up!


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I'd say that betting line is about right where I would expect to be and right where it should be. A road win at helpless Drake is nothing to be impressed by. That convincing win over UNI looks less and less impressive every time I grab another beer. In other words, as much as we have accomplished by getting off to a nice 4-1 start in Valley play - we aint done anything yet. No one is going to respect us for playing Evansville tough. The Shockers will likely win today but you can earn respect even in defeat today. The Sycamores can decide today what type of team and what type of season we are going to have the rest of the way. We have this conversation every year we get off to a good start, go earn some respect today and if we get a road dub on top of it drink up!



Where's the Pope putting his $$$ down @ St. Margaret's this morning- in the Rodney Dangerfield "Respect Cup" or the Holy Spirit "Faith Cup?":angel:


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BankShot said:


> Where's the Pope putting his $$$ down @ St. Margaret's this morning- in the Rodney Dangerfield "Respect Cup" or the Holy Spirit "Faith Cup?"



I don't know which one but I am heading to Maryland shortly to pray for a win!


----------



## ISU_TREE_FAN

maybe, just maybe we'll catch 'em fat over-confident and flat ?  here's hopin'


----------



## Westbadenboy

NOTE:  Spoke with the manager at Stacked Pickle in Carmel (Old Meridian) -- he assured me they could and would pull in the ISU vs WSU game today on one of their TV's.  Hope he is correct -- I'm planning on going to watch.


----------



## Stickboy46

BrokerZ said:


> Odum came out between the first and second free throw because that's how substitutions work when one fouls out on a shooting foul.  I remember that game very well for a lot of reasons.
> 
> Ron's a good dude. 'Nuff said.



He did not foul out.. He had 4 fouls. 

But either way carry on and let's hope for a good game today with no injuries


----------



## TreeTop

GAME DAY, BABY.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Stickboy46 said:


> He did not foul out.. He had 4 fouls.
> 
> But either way carry on and let's hope for a good game today with no injuries



You seem to recall so much then you will recall the fact that Gary Pollard bailed the Shockers out. Under 10 minutes left in the game, 5 point game and Baker drives to the basket and Pollard calls a fantom foul on Odum when he pulled the chair out from under Baker who fell. That was the ball game, our best player out with his 4th foul at a critical juncture in the game. Gary Pollard with the WORST call you will ever see in such an important game. So you are right he didn't foul out but you are wrong, he actually only had 3 fouls because his 4th foul was AWFUL. 

Watch from the 1:11 mark on if you need a reminder. 






Anytime I am in the same building as Gary Pollard I aint gonna let him forget that I am in the same building as him. He made it personal, we have a history him and I.


----------



## ISUCC

let's get a win today and keep pace with everyone! #SeperationSunday


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Looks like we're 15-16 point dogs per various sports books.


----------



## treeman

Lets go Sycs! big game today!


----------



## bent20

Not an encouraging start.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Gonna be a long day if they continue to call the game this way.


----------



## bent20

Nice run now. Can't believe there wasn't a foul call on us though on that last defensive rebound.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

C'mon Devonte... play smart.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 16 media timeout.

Sycamores 7, Shockers 6.


----------



## bent20

No more crazy shots, please. Right now we're looking good.


----------



## Gotta Hav

bent20 said:


> Not an encouraging start.



Up 7 - 6, looks like an encouraging start with a 7-0 run


----------



## BallyPie

so far so good.......one 3 ball down.....probably will need 9 more...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

They just called palming? LMAO


----------



## bent20

Stop racing up court and launching wild threes.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Brenton. Please shoot every time. 

Please?


----------



## meistro

Jason Svoboda said:


> Brenton. Please shoot every time.
> 
> Please?



Yes!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Rickman converts the traditional 3 point play.

His form there looked really good.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 12 media timeout.

Shockers 16, Sycamores 13.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Jason Svoboda said:


> They just called palming? LMAO



Right.  No shit.  Must got a call in his ear piece from Las Vegas.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Gotta Hav said:


> Right.  No shit.  Must got a call in his ear piece from Las Vegas.



But they don't call #1 moving his pivot foot 4 times right in front of the ref. 

I've always said I don't care if they want to call shit like that, but you damn well better call it to the letter on both ends.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

We're gonna need another player to get hot.


----------



## ISUCC

really like our energy, a game we can win for sure.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Love Van Scyoc's toughness in this one so far.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Like how they gave that foul to Wessel so their big didn't get into foul trouble. 

Because if it was on Wessel it should have been side out. Or the refs decided to begin giving continuation calls.


----------



## bent20

That was up and down. No Sycamore touched the ball!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Offense is stumbling and out of control. Really wish Greg would use a TO to calm them down.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 8 media timeout.

Shox 21, Sycamores 18.


----------



## bent20

Bad foul by Murphy. No chance to win that ball.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Smith settled for a pull up?!?! WTF his second one on one fast break he hasn't attacked the basket! 

The worst dude.


----------



## skdent1414

Why are we in such a big hurry?


----------



## treeman

Vanvleet always kills us, we need to stop him from getting 20+ today


----------



## BallyPie

we're really doing some odd chit on offense..........play our game boys...


----------



## BankShot

BallyPie said:


> we're really doing some odd chit on offense..........play our game boys...



ISU Guards losing their cool...been watching to many MJ reruns...let the game COME to them!


----------



## Gotta Hav

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> *Smith settled for a pull up?!?! *
> 
> WTF his second one on one fast break he hasn't attacked the basket!



What's the old saying?   You can't teach an old Senior, new Freshmen tricks.


----------



## meistro

We just shoot ourselves in the foot some times with our low IQ decisions like shot selection and dribbling into crowds.


----------



## BallyPie

would be satisfied if we're within 6 at the half......


----------



## meistro

Why do we need to put Burnett in?


----------



## BallyPie

a Burnett sighting....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Shox have scouted Clemons perfectly. Watch what they do whenever he gets the ball.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Why is Brandon Burnett on the floor, now?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Greg Lansing when you tout the D of Brown, Smith and Clemons you might wanna make sure Fred don't go for 20 on you in the first freakin half! What in the world.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Good foul Smith. Brilliant


----------



## ISUCC

pretty good 1st half, just cut down on silly turnovers and we can win this, and we're usually a 2nd half team lately, so we're ok right now


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> pretty good 1st half, just cut down on silly turnovers and we can win this, and we're usually a 2nd half team lately, so we're ok right now



All things considered, I agree. We had a 4-5 minute stretch where our offense looked like a potato. If we could have just played a consistent 20 minutes, could be tied if not ahead. We'll need to make sure they don't come out on a big run to start the 2nd.


----------



## ISUCC

down 5 at the half, not bad, still plenty of time.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Tip in = Over the back of Brown.


----------



## BallyPie

a 3 going into the locker room would be nice....


----------



## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tip in = Over the back of Brown.



That's what I thought as well.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Greg might wanna give it to Scott on the last shot of the half he does have a few buckets to keep us alive. Again.

How many times you gonna ride this horses and treat him like a donkey.


----------



## BallyPie

well....considering how we've been playing the 2nd half of games, we've got them right where we want them....


----------



## meistro

Pretty good first half. Gotta rebound better. Scott is in a zone lately and we should call his number every time until they can stop him.


----------



## ISUCC

gonna have to get some offensive production from somewhere else too

difference so far is at the FT line, where they're 10-10, everything else is pretty even


----------



## BankShot

Typical last second *no shot* by ISU...ever heard of S-C-O-T-T off a pick? Dumb.


----------



## BrokerZ

So, those watching at home: did you see Q try and check into the game without a jersey on? Got a wonderful laugh from the folks here at Koch, and I'm sure took Q immediate out of his game as he had to run back to the locker room to find his top.


----------



## BankShot

meistro said:


> Pretty good first half. Gotta rebound better. Scott is in a zone lately and we should call his number every time until they can stop him.



He's gotta be more prudent on dribble penetration...too many TO's in traffic. He's in the ZONE though...


----------



## meistro

BankShot said:


> Typical last second *no shot* by ISU...ever heard of S-C-O-T-T off a pick? Dumb.



It looked like they had Scott coming around and Devonte drove it too deep and got picked. But you're right, gotta find a way for him to get the last shot.


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Greg Lansing when you tout the D of Brown, Smith and Clemons you might wanna make sure Fred don't go for 20 on you in the first freakin half! What in the world.



To be fair Scott was on him quite a bit, but regardless that is a Lansing decision. Fvv is a terrific player though and we have to keep and baker off the ft line. Make them get their points from the field


----------



## Gotta Hav

ISUCC said:


> pretty good 1st half, just cut down on silly turnovers and we can win this, and we're usually a 2nd half team lately, so we're ok right now



2nd almost 'we could WIN this game call" now by ISUCC....and with that, it looks like we could have a Sycamore WIN coming in the 2nd half!!!

I mean really, who on here thought that ISUCC was right, when he PREDICTED the win over UNI?  

Not me, and I would guess that most on here, thought he was out out-of-his-long-distance-running-mind when he called that.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BrokerZ said:


> So, those watching at home: did you see Q try and check into the game without a jersey on? Got a wonderful laugh from the folks here at Koch, and I'm sure took Q immediate out of his game as he had to run back to the locker room to find his top.



He should be sent home. This is D1 basketball.


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> He should be sent home. This is D1 basketball.



How on God's green earth do you forget your jersey! Ive had kids forget their shooting shirts or forget to take off warm-ups when checking in, but that is middle school and that sure isn't the same as forgetting a jersey! Damn Q lol


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

He is never ready to play. He comes in at the HC with his shirt not tucked in looks like a deer in the headlights.


----------



## BankShot

Strategy of Burnett's 3 min stint?:hypnotized:


----------



## BankShot

Southgrad07 said:


> How on God's green earth do you forget your jersey! Ive had kids forget their shooting shirts or forget to take off warm-ups when checking in, but that is middle school and that sure isn't the same as forgetting a jersey! Damn Q lol



Frosh jitters?:lol:


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Scott has two things to work on.

1. He is weak on dribble drive. Sometimes gets it stripped and or make a bad decision.

2. He doesn't defend off the dribble very well at all. Fred beat him bad a few times.

That being said, I don't care if he misses everytime down the floor. I'd rather him shoot and miss than anyone else shoot and miss.


----------



## bent20

All that defense and the only one guy is under the basket for the rebound.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Come on Greg. Running the clock and a long contested 3 by Brown is not the damn answer, it just aint.


----------



## Gotta Hav

BankShot said:


> Strategy of Burnett's 3 min stint?:hypnotized:



My first and only guess is, this was a Guidono and Belcher, Muhammad Ali rope-a-dope brainstorm strategy.....of showing The Shockers, that they really do have us on-the-ropes.

Geez...who frickin really knows.  

What's next, Prusator comes in this game after 4 minutes into the 2nd half....that would be just as brilliant as the BB insert at the end of the 1st.


----------



## Southgrad07

B.Scott has been terrific on o but has been torched by fvv on the other end. Why on earth is he drawing that assignment over Brown or Clemons who are much better defenders??


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Come on Greg. Running the clock and a long contested 3 by Brown is not the damn answer, it just aint.



w/ Van Syoc out, leaves a BIG hole on the shooting perimeter.


----------



## bent20

Disgusting. That was a very weak foul call.


----------



## ISU_TREE_FAN

when is the last time they called a forearm shove or a wrap around hook on Baker or VanFleet?


----------



## bent20

Just ugly.


----------



## bent20

Murphy has looked good in spots today.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Smith.

If you're going to foul him.


Foul the living shit outta him!


----------



## bent20

Brown did not foul Baker there, but Murphy was most definitely fouled at the other end and no call. I'm not upset though. I expected the officiating to go their way.


----------



## treeman

He didnt touch him


----------



## meistro

We're putting them on the line way too much. Of course we don't seem to get the same benefit of the calls they are.


----------



## bent20

There was no foul there. Not even close. It was a phantom whistle.


----------



## BankShot

Gotta put Van Syoc back in...no offensive balance on the perimeter  w/o him.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Scott has not touched the ball this half Lansing, that is on you!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Glad whistles only work on one end of the floor.


----------



## bent20

Hilarious. Murphy does foul, but no call. Burnett doesn't and then they immediately blow the whistle.


----------



## bent20

Our offense is a mess and they're getting a foul call every time down the floor.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> There was no foul there. Not even close. It was a phantom whistle.



And another one.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Honestly blaming the refs this half is weak, really weak. Has nothing to do with anything.

They are forcing the issue something we haven't done.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Burnett again.....HELL, put Emondre in there, or leave Murphy in!!!!


----------



## BankShot

What's Burnett doing in the game? 1st PT for him in how long...a month?


----------



## bent20

Notice how the only time WSU gets called for a foul is when one of our guys hits the deck, and even then it's not every time.


----------



## bent20

Fans boo. Yeah, he was tripped you idiots.


----------



## niklz62

Scotts drive would have been an and 1 for them.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Shocker fans are just hilarious.


----------



## niklz62

These guys are mistaking incidental contact with accidental contact


----------



## bent20

BankShot said:


> What's Burnett doing in the game? 1st PT for him in how long...a month?



Burnett enters the game for all of a minute and you two freak out like someone stole your car.


----------



## bent20

Smith was fouled. No call.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Honestly blaming the refs this half is weak, really weak. Has nothing to do with anything.
> 
> They are forcing the issue something we haven't done.



Without a doubt they are. But they're getting points when they shouldn't have based on phantom calls.


----------



## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> Without a doubt they are. But they're getting points when they shouldn't have based on phantom calls.



Like I said, I expect it, but when it's this extreme it's tiring to watch. We wouldn't be winning even with better officiating, but it would be closer.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Without a doubt they are. But they're getting points when they shouldn't have based on phantom calls.



That is fine Jason but complaining every time down the floor is ridiculous. What is dumb is that both teams were in the bonus with 13 minutes to play. What the hell is that all about?!


----------



## BankShot

Too much substitution...ISU help "D" rarely on the "same page this game.


----------



## bent20

And now it's not close and we get to watch a free throw shooting contest for the next 10 minutes. Woohoo.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Go


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Sit


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Down #22


----------



## meistro

With the way the game is being called we'd have to play perfect and we definitely aren't. I just don't understand why Paige and Burnett are playing in this game. They just aren't good enough.


----------



## meistro

And Smith is MIA today


----------



## bent20

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Down #22



I guess they could bring Van Scyoc back and then after he fouls out play four.


----------



## BlueSycamore

I don't understand why they don't send Smith out to the plane too.  Absolutely a hindrance on the offensive end.  Could not a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle.  Has he ever had his vision/depth perception checked.  Maybe needs glasses?


----------



## bent20

meistro said:


> With the way the game is being called we'd have to play perfect and we definitely aren't. I just don't understand why Paige and Burnett are playing in this game. They just aren't good enough.



Because Brown, Van Scyoc, and Bunschoten all have four fouls and Smith and Clemons have three fouls. That's why!


----------



## Southgrad07

bent20 said:


> And now it's not close and we get to watch a free throw shooting contest for the next 10 minutes. Woohoo.



Lot of fouls going against Isu in the second half that weren't called on the shocks. Partly why it takes a perfect game to beat them here...oh and Burnett is the worst 5th yr senior I've ever seen.


----------



## BlueSycamore

meistro said:


> And Smith is MIA today



that happens more often than not.


----------



## ISUCC

FT's are the big differential in this game, they've shot a ton, we haven't, and we're just not shooting well. Didn't expect to win, but was hoping we'd at least keep it within 10.


----------



## skdent1414

We gave up with this lineup. Put in the walk ons too please.


----------



## Gotta Hav

bent20 said:


> Burnett enters the game for all of a minute and you two freak out like someone stole your car.



Weren't you the same one Freaking Out, at the start of this game...like someone Stole Your Schwinn Bicycle with a Banana Seat?


----------



## bent20

You guys are comical. I don't understand why so and so is playing. Send them home, sit down, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, we've got six guys, including all of our starters with three or more fouls. But yeah, we shouldn't be bitching about the officiating.


----------



## BankShot

Gotta Hav said:


> Weren't you the same one Freaking Out, at the start of this game...like someone Stole Your Schwinn Bicycle with a Banana Seat?



Burnett offers ZILCH...at least let Van Syoc foul out.

3 fouls...gotta learn to play w/ 3 SOMETIME.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

bent20 said:


> You guys are comical. I don't understand why so and so is playing. Send them home, sit down, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, we've got six guys, including all of our starters with three or more fouls. But yeah, we shouldn't be bitching about the officiating.



I'm the only one that said quit complaining about the officiating and the only one that said send Q home for not having his uniform on and sit down for Burnett for a blatant charging foul for no reason.

Don't say "you guys", I want credit for all of that. I said all of that stuff on my own.


----------



## bent20

Gotta Hav said:


> Weren't you the same one Freaking Out, at the start of this game...like someone Stole Your Schwinn Bicycle with a Banana Seat?



I said not an encouraging start. Certainly not freaking out.

You do enjoy exaggerating things though.


----------



## bent20

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I'm the only one that said quit complaining about the officiating and the only one that said send Q home for not having his uniform on and sit down for Burnett for a blatant charging foul for no reason.
> 
> Don't say "you guys", I want credit for all of that. I said all of that stuff on my own.



Sorry, I have to give some credit to Gotta Hav and Bankshot as well.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

bent20 said:


> Sorry, I have to give some credit to Gotta Hav and Bankshot as well.



Damn.


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## bent20

BankShot said:


> Burnett offers ZILCH...at least let Van Syoc foul out.
> 
> 3 fouls...gotta learn to play w/ 3 SOMETIME.



He's had four for the last five minutes of the game.

I was wrong though about all of our starters being in foul trouble. Scott doesn't have a foul yet.

We have five with four and Clemons has three.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

5 pts off the bench won't quite get it done...

and 16 turnovers to 5... 9 by Brown and Scott... 

That is the difference in the game. Don't talk to me about the officiaitng in this game. You already knew they were going to shoot 30+ free throws at home, it happens all the damn time vs. them.


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## bent20

Fouls with 3:30 to play:

ISU: 26 total, five with four fouls, one with three

WSU: 16 total, one with four fouls, two with three 

Yeah, that makes it hard to stay close.


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## BallyPie

Looks like WS made the proper half time adjustment......."take Scott out of the game".....has he even shot a 3 pointer this half....??


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## bent20

FG percentage and three point percentages between the two teams aren't all that different, but WSU has 26/32 from FT line. We have 14/17.


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## meistro

bent20 said:


> Because Brown, Van Scyoc, and Bunschoten all have four fouls and Smith and Clemons have three fouls. That's why!



I would play them til they foul out. Burnett has been in the program forever and he's not gotten any better. Maybe he's a nice kid but this isn't the boys club and not everybody gets to play. Paige to be honest has not shown all season that he can play at this level.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

BallyPie said:


> Looks like WS made the proper half time adjustment......."take Scott out of the game".....has he even shot a 3 pointer this half....??



He shot 1 a long 3 and missed. We were down 12 when he took with about 12 left. Yes it was a good adjustment.


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## BankShot

Shitty game 360...coaches AND players!


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## bent20

Three minutes left and Lansing has conceded. Hard to blame him. Our best players are all about to foul out.


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## bent20

meistro said:


> I would play them til they foul out. Burnett has been in the program forever and he's not gotten any better. Maybe he's a nice kid but this isn't the boys club and not everybody gets to play. Paige to be honest has not shown all season that he can play at this level.



Only thing I can figure is Lansing hoped we'd make a run and that's why he wanted to save those guys in foul trouble. In fairness though, no one other than Scott played well, so would it have really mattered?


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## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> He shot 1 a long 3 and missed. We were down 12 when he took with about 12 left. Yes it was a good adjustment.



:seestars2:


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Not quite ready to play with that team just yet... Not really even close to be honest, without Scott your down double figures in the first half. The next couple don't get any easier.  

Hopefully the Shocker internet trolls come around to say hello after the game!


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## Southgrad07

Well nice effort from Scott and murph .. Refs certainly cost us 5-7 points but when you lose by the margin we did that is not the issue. We have to learn to create offense against good perimeter defense. Scott bailed us out with some tough ones, but you can't count on those all game long. Also shock fans would never admit it but I thought they came to play, great games from their backcourt and all around great defensive effort from the team.

Will need a much improved Smith, Clemons. And mvs to win at siu


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## bent20

I would have put all of the starters in at 3:30 and let them play until they fouled out. Likely wouldn't have taken long since six guys finished with four fouls, but I would have put them out there. What good does it do ending the game with four fouls. We weren't going to come back, but this team needs all the experience it can get going up against a team like WSU.


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## BankShot

http://stats.statbroadcast.com/broadcast/?id=103207


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## BallyPie

it was a game we really needed MVS to contribute offensively.....and he was basically a non factor.....1-6....0-4 behind the arc.


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## Chief_Quabachi

I still say Smith's body language projects that he just isn't interested. Damnit, he is one of the most athletic players on the team, but he just doesn't seem to exert much effort......and Burnett makes me want to *#$^@ scream. The best part of him ran down his Momma's leg. Disappointed with the effort today, but realistically WSU has much more talent.


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## BankShot

Chief_Quabachi said:


> I still say Smith's body language projects that he just isn't interested. Damnit, he is one of the most athletic players on the team, but he just doesn't seem to exert much effort......and Burnett makes me want to *#$^@ scream. The best part of him ran down his Momma's leg. Disappointed with the effort today, but realistically WSU has much more talent.



Smith's AFRAID of inside"contact"...Burnett's afraid of his shadow (and his 1" vertical)...

Our "help" D was terrible today...Van Fleet penetration UNTOUCHED. Much of this I attribute to the player combo's we had in the game. Poor sideline coaching by ISU. Scott had 16 pts. in the 1st half...never scored a FG w/ 12:25 left in the game. You figure...ends w/ 24. Burnett today - 15 minutes.


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## Southgrad07

BankShot said:


> Smith's AFRAID of inside"contact"...Burnett's afraid of his shadow (and his 1" vertical).



Yep, Smith has always been afraid to put his head down and go to the rim. I can only assume at this point it has to do with his lack of handles. Should of been something he worked on for the last 5 years..he is a nice defensive player and fourth scorer,just did not reach his potential imo.


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## Southgrad07

BankShot said:


> Smith's AFRAID of inside"contact"...Burnett's afraid of his shadow (and his 1" vertical)...
> 
> Our "help" D was terrible today...Van Fleet penetration UNTOUCHED. Much of this I attribute to the player combo's we had in the game. Poor sideline coaching by ISU. Scott had 16 pts. in the 1st half...never scored a FG w/ 12:25 left in the game. You figure...ends w/ 24. Burnett today - 15 minutes.



And don't get me started on Burnett. Seems like a good teammate that the guys like but damnnnn:blink:


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## Gotta Hav

BankShot said:


> Smith's AFRAID of inside"contact"...Burnett's afraid of his shadow.



Rumor has it, that both have perfect attendance at The Jordan Printy - Lake Erie, Kick Out Basketball Camp.


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## BankShot

:disturbed:


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## Jason Svoboda

*Brenton Scott And Devonte Brown Continue String Of Double Digit Scoring Performances*






Indiana State sophomore Brenton Scott and senior Devonte Brown made it a perfect 6-of-6 in terms of reaching double figures scoring during Missouri Valley Conference play but it was Wichita State which earned an 82-62 victory in front of a packed house of 10,506 inside Charles Koch Arena.

Read more at GoSycamores...


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## BankShot

Don't be deceived...Brownie did NOT have a good game. SID must have leftover icing from the holidayz.


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## bigsportsfan

BallyPie said:


> it was a game we really needed MVS to contribute offensively.....and he was basically a non factor.....1-6....0-4 behind the arc.



He's so easy to guard, just a taller Prusator. Should be bench role player.


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## bigsportsfan

BallyPie said:


> Looks like WS made the proper half time adjustment......."take Scott out of the game".....has he even shot a 3 pointer this half....??



Shouldn't that have been their goal for the entire game?


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## BankShot

bigsportsfan said:


> Shouldn't that have been their goal for the entire game?



Scott used his screens very effectively in the 1st half. With the combos that Lansing was throwing into the game during the 2nd half, continuity was terrible...thus no Scott FG after 12 1/2 min left in the game! We were running a perimeter offense w/ one shooter on the perimeter! Not real hard to defend this type of offense.

Well, a stinky one for the books. Now off to Carbon Dump.


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## BrokerZ

I will say that I thoroughly enjoyed my experience at Koch Arena this afternoon, despite the final outcome of the game.  I was completely surrounded by Shocker fans, but all were gracious and polite to me.  I didn't have much to cheer for which probably helped, but nonetheless they were good hosts. The atmosphere in that place is unbelievable, too.  I highly recommend it for anyone who has considered making the trip. 

I can tell you this too - those fans now know who Brenton Scott is and they are not excited to be seeing 2+ years more of him!


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## BallyPie

Just a thought......for a 1K scorer at ISU, KS doesn't seem to score much.....it's like...how did he get all those points.??


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## sycamorebacker

BallyPie said:


> Just a thought......for a 1K scorer at ISU, KS doesn't seem to score much.....it's like...how did he get all those points.??



Yes, it is perplexing, isn't it.


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## sycamorebacker

Does anyone else think VanFleet will be in the NBA a year from now?


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## Westbadenboy

You know I SEE the big crowd at WSU and even hear it a little at times on TV, but for all the talk about the noise & atmosphere it does not come across when watching on TV.  Much of the time it seems very quiet.
Also the camera shots of the crowd often don't show much enthusiasm.
What am I missing here ? ? ?


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## sycamorebacker

Westbadenboy said:


> You know I SEE the big crowd at WSU and even hear it a little at times on TV, but for all the talk about the noise & atmosphere it does not come across when watching on TV.  Much of the time it seems very quiet.
> Also the camera shots of the crowd often don't show much enthusiasm.
> What am I missing here ? ? ?



How much excitement do you expect from a #30 team playing a #119 team?


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## treeman

Well I will be glad that when VanVleet is out of that city. He is an All-American but seems All-Universe when we play them. That guy absolutely kills us year in and year out.


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## BankShot

sycamorebacker said:


> Does anyone else think VanFleet will be in the NBA a year from now?



I do...he's a consummate NBA PG...can't believe he was not chosen for the U.S. Pan American squad and Baker was. They BOTH should've been selected. #1 collegiate backcourt in America - 3 yrs. running!


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## BlueSycamore

Southgrad07 said:


> Yep, Smith has always been afraid to put his head down and go to the rim. I can only assume at this point it has to do with his lack of handles. Should of been something he worked on for the last 5 years..he is a nice defensive player and fourth scorer,just did not reach his potential imo.



maybe he can redshirt a couple more years and then be less of a factor afterwards than he is now..............very disappointed in his play. the majority of our redshirted players never make much noise their final year.....why is that.....?


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## BankShot

BlueSycamore said:


> maybe he can redshirt a couple more years and then be less of a factor afterwards than he is now..............very disappointed in his play. the majority of our redshirted players never make much noise their final year.....why is that.....?



Old age...past their "prime." :gramps: Need to mix a lil' Geritol in w/ the Gatorade...


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## Elder Tracy D. Smith

Upside: I was blessed to finally meet Brian Fritz, Matt Renn, and a few other Sycamore supporters @ the game. #WorthTheTrip


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## Elder Tracy D. Smith




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## sycamorebacker

BlueSycamore said:


> maybe he can redshirt a couple more years and then be less of a factor afterwards than he is now..............very disappointed in his play. the majority of our redshirted players never make much noise their final year.....why is that.....?



Certainly not all of them work out.  I can think of many that have.


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## TreeTop

I saw Elder on TV during a timeout, that was pretty cool.  Way to represent!


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## BrokerZ

sycamorebacker said:


> Does anyone else think VanFleet will be in the NBA a year from now?



He's borderline.  He has all the talent, no doubt about that.  What he lacks is height.  He has a little Tony Parker in his game, but even Parker is 2-3 inches taller than VanVleet.  Those dribble-drives that just barely miss getting blocked at the basket get blocked in the NBA.  He's a fringe 2nd rounder, but will definitely get on a summer league squad with potential to be a 3rd point guard as a rookie for a team willing to give him a chance.


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## BrokerZ

Westbadenboy said:


> You know I SEE the big crowd at WSU and even hear it a little at times on TV, but for all the talk about the noise & atmosphere it does not come across when watching on TV.  Much of the time it seems very quiet.
> Also the camera shots of the crowd often don't show much enthusiasm.
> What am I missing here ? ? ?



You're missing a lot.  That crowd was into that game from warm-ups to post game handshakes.  Brenton Scott was the only thing that ever quieted the crowd.  Lots of moans and groans from the home fans as he was heating up in the first half.  But, the game was frightfully boring in the second half.  Foul after foul after foul will temper any crowd's excitement.


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## BankShot

BrokerZ said:


> He's borderline.  He has all the talent, no doubt about that.  What he lacks is height.  He has a little Tony Parker in his game, but even Parker is 2-3 inches taller than VanVleet.  Those dribble-drives that just barely miss getting blocked at the basket get blocked in the NBA.  He's a fringe 2nd rounder, but will definitely get on a summer league squad with potential to be a 3rd point guard as a rookie for a team willing to give him a chance.



#1-6 are more in line w/ Van Fleet's profile. Also I thought that Celtic TINY ARCHIBALD should've been on that list: 

http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/05/the-15-greatest-short-nba-players-of-all-time/








Van Fleet is every bit as good as THESE NBA stars...the key for him (like Archibald/Havlicek), is getting "under the wings" of someone that RESPECTS his style of play...like Bird, who played w/ Tiny near the end of his career in '84. Van Fleet KNOWS "transition hoop," which is the core of NBA style.


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## BrokerZ

Damon Stoudamire is a good comp. 

He obviously has an uphill battle ahead of him; otherwise, a ranking of the 15 greatest "short" basketball players wouldn't exist.  He'll have a chance to prove himself, though.  Unfortunately for him, if he were 6'3", he would have been a lottery pick last year.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> Does anyone else think VanFleet will be in the NBA a year from now?



No, but I fully expect him to be a GREAT oversea as his game translates amazingly for European pro ball. 

If Baker doesn't make a roster, some European team would be stupid not to offer them both a deal.

BTW, here is NBADrafts 2016 mock. Tons of talent in the 2nd round which will make it very hard for a team to take FVV.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft


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## Jason Svoboda

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> Upside: I was blessed to finally meet Brian Fritz, Matt Renn, and a few other Sycamore supporters @ the game. #WorthTheTrip



You were right behind Coach Lansing so you got a shit load of TV time!


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> No, but I fully expect him to be a GREAT oversea as his game translates amazingly for European pro ball.
> 
> If Baker doesn't make a roster, some European team would be stupid not to offer them both a deal.
> 
> BTW, here is NBADrafts 2016 mock. Tons of talent in the 2nd round which will make it very hard for a team to take FVV.
> 
> http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft



Write it down.  I see VanFleet as an NBA player.  I think VanFleet and even Yogi Ferrell could do better than Baker.  (Even though Yogi doesn't play smart enough.)


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## Elder Tracy D. Smith

Jason Svoboda said:


> You were right behind Coach Lansing so you got a shit load of TV time!


Yes sir, floor seats #ThanksCoachLansing


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> Write it down.  I see VanFleet as an NBA player.



Don't get me wrong, I think he could probably play in the league. 

His issue is he is running into a pretty solid NBA draft class and limited PG opportunities where he would be slotted. Looking at the bottom half of the draft order, I'm not sure which of those teams would use a late draft pick on him when they could roll the dice on a big and most of those teams already have significant financial commitments to PGs. 

Now, if he signs as a UDFA somewhere, there are a couple spots where he could fit in. Portland, for example, has a lot coming off their books but they're getting ready to extend Lillard to big money so he'd be a 3rd PG, backup at best there depending on who they keep/sign. It's almost too bad he didn't come out last year because there were many more opportunities for PGs.


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## sycamorebacker

My wife and I were just looking at that mock draft.  There are players like Nigel Hayes, who is a good player, but I don't think he can impact a game the way a player like VanFleet can as an open court handler/passer/shooter.  I guess his height is a big disadvantage on defense; and I know it is a long shot at his height.  He may only be 5'10" too.


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## Southgrad07

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> Yes sir, floor seats #ThanksCoachLansing



Nice to see them taking care of a kids family who has been invested in the program for a number of years. Very jealous of your seats in the roundhouse!


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## blueblazer

Southgrad07 said:


> Nice to see them taking care of a kids family who has been invested in the program for a number of years. Very jealous of your seats in the roundhouse!



Wonderful picture


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## Chief_Quabachi

Great picture Elder Tracy!!


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## Elder Tracy D. Smith

Chief_Quabachi said:


> Great picture Elder Tracy!!


Thank sir. [emoji41]


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## bluebill

Only diff is the hair !


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## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> Don't get me wrong, I think he could probably play in the league.
> 
> His issue is he is running into a pretty solid NBA draft class and limited PG opportunities where he would be slotted. Looking at the bottom half of the draft order, I'm not sure which of those teams would use a late draft pick on him when they could roll the dice on a big and most of those teams already have significant financial commitments to PGs.
> 
> Now, if he signs as a UDFA somewhere, there are a couple spots where he could fit in. Portland, for example, has a lot coming off their books but they're getting ready to extend Lillard to big money so he'd be a 3rd PG, backup at best there depending on who they keep/sign. It's almost too bad he didn't come out last year because there were many more opportunities for PGs.



I wouldn't mind seeing him in Indy as a Pacer. I know they've been high on Joe Young as a prospect, but they need to develop more pgs.


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## Elder Tracy D. Smith

bluebill said:


> Only diff is the hair !


Or lack of hair...LOL


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