# Is Memorial Stadium the Problem?



## IndyTreeFan

OK, I know we've beaten this dead horse for years.  But I was having a conversation tonight with a fellow Tree, and I had a thought that I haven't previously had.  (Maybe some of you have had it)  Does Memorial Stadium _itself_ keep people away from the games?  Here's what I was thinking when this thought popped into my head.

1.  Memorial Stadium is old and crumbling.  I mean, by stadium standards, it's ancient.  It hasn't been kept up adequately through the years, heck it hasn't been kept up at all.  It looks as though it could collapse at any moment.  It just looks bad.  In fact, it just looks scary.  I find it a bit disconcerting (don't throw a flag...) that I can look from my seat in row 46, through a crack, and see the ground 100 feet below.

2.  It isn't ADA compliant.  It's not even remotely user friendly.  There are no hand rails on the stairs.  The only access to the seating areas are from the very bottom.  If you are going to the top rows, you almost need to have oxygen.  Seriously, there's a reason that running the steps at the stadium is a _punishment_!!!  The seats are cold hard bleachers.  Only about 1/8 of the stadium even has seat backs.  The bathrooms are from the Stone Age.

3.  Memorial Stadium has zero amenities.  Zip, zilch, nada.  The press box is probably the worst non-high school press box in America.  The concession areas are a complete joke.  The scoreboards and video and audio are all substandard.  No club seating, no lounge area for donors.  There are only two small ticket windows (not that we need more at this point). 

4.  We cannot host night games.  The lighting system is so bad that if a game goes OT and it gets dark, it actually looks like it's being played in twilight on tv.

5.  It only has seats on one side.  Not exactly a college football experience.  Although there aren't many stadiums that provide a nice hill as a perfect display ad for Ford Trucks...

6.  Memorial Stadium cannot handle the technological needs of today's MVFC football games.  They actually said on the telecast yesterday that the stadium doesn't have the necessary technology to do replay.  The conference went to replay for all conference games this year.  Except those games at ISU, I guess.

7.  The tailgating area is actually too good.  When a new stadium is built, the one thing that will be missed from Memorial Stadium will be the park-like atmosphere for tailgating.  The tailgating area is so good, going into the stadium might just not be worth the hassle.  We're developing a great tailgating atmosphere, and I'm beginning to think that it's hurting the game attendance.

Memorial Stadium holds a lot of great memories for me.  But our struggles to get even a respectable crowd at the games, despite ranked teams coming in, despite being ranked ourselves, despite having 20,000 people outside the stadium at freaking Homecoming, have me wondering if the stadium itself isn't the barrier.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## blueblazer

IndyTreeFan said:


> OK, I know we've beaten this dead horse for years.  But I was having a conversation tonight with a fellow Tree, and I had a thought that I haven't previously had.  (Maybe some of you have had it)  Does Memorial Stadium _itself_ keep people away from the games?  Here's what I was thinking when this thought popped into my head.
> 
> 1.  Memorial Stadium is old and crumbling.  I mean, by stadium standards, it's ancient.  It hasn't been kept up adequately through the years, heck it hasn't been kept up at all.  It looks as though it could collapse at any moment.  It just looks bad.  In fact, it just looks scary.  I find it a bit disconcerting (don't throw a flag...) that I can look from my seat in row 46, through a crack, and see the ground 100 feet below.
> 
> 2.  It isn't ADA compliant.  It's not even remotely user friendly.  There are no hand rails on the stairs.  The only access to the seating areas are from the very bottom.  If you are going to the top rows, you almost need to have oxygen.  Seriously, there's a reason that running the steps at the stadium is a _punishment_!!!  The seats are cold hard bleachers.  Only about 1/8 of the stadium even has seat backs.  The bathrooms are from the Stone Age.
> 
> 3.  Memorial Stadium has zero amenities.  Zip, zilch, nada.  The press box is probably the worst non-high school press box in America.  The concession areas are a complete joke.  The scoreboards and video and audio are all substandard.  No club seating, no lounge area for donors.  There are only two small ticket windows (not that we need more at this point).
> 
> 4.  We cannot host night games.  The lighting system is so bad that if a game goes OT and it gets dark, it actually looks like it's being played in twilight on tv.
> 
> 5.  It only has seats on one side.  Not exactly a college football experience.  Although there aren't many stadiums that provide a nice hill as a perfect display ad for Ford Trucks...
> 
> 6.  Memorial Stadium cannot handle the technological needs of today's MVFC football games.  They actually said on the telecast yesterday that the stadium doesn't have the necessary technology to do replay.  The conference went to replay for all conference games this year.  Except those games at ISU, I guess.
> 
> 7.  The tailgating area is actually too good.  When a new stadium is built, the one thing that will be missed from Memorial Stadium will be the park-like atmosphere for tailgating.  The tailgating area is so good, going into the stadium might just not be worth the hassle.  We're developing a great tailgating atmosphere, and I'm beginning to think that it's hurting the game attendance.
> 
> Memorial Stadium holds a lot of great memories for me.  But our struggles to get even a respectable crowd at the games, despite ranked teams coming in, despite being ranked ourselves, despite having 20,000 people outside the stadium at freaking Homecoming, have me wondering if the stadium itself isn't the barrier.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on this?



I agree with everything you said....


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## Sycamore Proud

Memorial Stadium does have a few things working in its favor.  As you noted, there are few better areas for tailgating.  Check out the history of the stadium and grounds.  The exterior facade at the main entrance is worth renovation.  Yes, it could be saved and made up to today's standards.  Yes it would be expensive.  Yes, it will remain far from campus.  There again the solution is available but expensive..  The architects and engineers can solve the structural issues.  As for the transportation issues--A high speed monorail cuold connect all athletic facilities to terminals on the main campus and shopping areas as well as the city's parks.  Would this work? Yes. Would it put Indiana State in the forefront of forward thinking universities? Yes.  Would it be expensive?  Yes, but with collaboration of the city, the state of Indiana, Indiana State University, the United State of America and private funding it could be done.  Will it be done?  Heck no--this is ISU.  If eye[ewe, purrdew or even testicle tech it would at least merit consideration.


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## sycamore tuff

I think there are several reasons.  First of all we had so many losing seasons that there never was an attachment to the game by the students.  If they were not attached to the program as students I doubt they will be as alumni.  
I think the biggest reason we don't attract larger crowds is the idea that we are not a division I university and the games really don't matter since we don't play anyone of quality.  My son has kids at his high school tell him we are division II and III.  The facilities at Brown and Wabash only help to support that misconception.  The University has to more consistantly provide a quality product and reinforce the fact that we are a division I University.


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## GuardShock

I definitely had the worst pretzel of my life from the concessions. It was cold and just did not taste good at all. That's about all I got.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

I am less bothered by the people who stay outside the stadium as I am the ones who come into the stadium. You've never seen a group of people collectivly sit on their hands more than people inside Memorial Stadium. If you can't get up off your ass and cheer for 3rd down with 50 seconds left in the game up 1 at midfield you can't cheer for shit. 

What good does it do to worry about the people outside the stadium when the ones inside it don't get invested in the game. 

If I was standing outside Memorial Stadium and Indiana State made a good play I had a hard time telling if it was a good play for us or them - in other words if I was on the fence about coming in the atmosphere made the decision for me. 

Blame it on the stadium, blame it on Terre Haute, blame it on poor concession stands, blame it on poor marketing, blame... Blame... BLAME! 

The problem has been identifed long ago and people don't take the necessary steps to address it! 

It's a freaking mind set - an attitude! Until folks start taking it personal nothing will change. 2 weeks ago a "sponsor" parks in front of Memorial Stadium with an IU liscense plate - I called him on it. 

On Saturday we are sitting watching the game with a bunch of former teammates of mine and some ISU Red fans behind us. One of the ISU Red fans says something to the effect of "This school and city suck" and my teammate (3 beers in mind you) a mild manored individual turned around and was up in these guys faces giving them the business. Someone called the cops on him and they talked to him... Whatever that is the story. The point is you aint got to take it that far but people need to take ownership over this and stop blaming it on this and that - do something about it and it extends beyond going to games that is not enough. Take it personal!

Thanks - done taking about attendance.

(note: not directed at anyone in here)


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## treeman

one thing that stuck out to me during the game was that about the 3rd quarter or so our PA said something to the effect of "and for you notre dame fans out there the irish lead north carolina....". Once i heard that i was like "what the f#$%"


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## SycamoreStateofMind

treeman said:


> one thing that stuck out to me during the game was that about the 3rd quarter or so our PA said something to the effect of "and for you notre dame fans out there the irish lead north carolina....". Once i heard that i was like "what the f#$%"



Exactly what I am talking about, great point!


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## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> one thing that stuck out to me during the game was that about the 3rd quarter or so our PA said something to the effect of "and for you notre dame fans out there the irish lead north carolina....". Once i heard that i was like "what the f#$%"



They've been doing it at every game and it drives me NUTS. IMO, I don't even think they should give those scores out. You give out MVFC scores and other FCS Top 25 scores. You're just perputating the underlying problems.


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## Jason Svoboda

Some anecdotal stuff I witnessed this weekend: 

1) There were two individual that bought tickets and asked an usher for help because one had a wheelchair. The usher basically dismissed them and told them to head over to a different section even though they had tickets in F. Not sure how they got the tickets in F, but the ticket folks or people that take the tickets should have been the first line of assistance there. 

2) While waiting in line at a concession stand someone spilled their drink up top and it almost drenched a couple kids standing in line. It hit the railing right to the left of them. It may make sense to put some sort of awnlng over the concession stand line area. Could you imagine if someone spilled a hot chocolate and it hit people below?


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## IndyTreeFan

First off, I'm not going to piss on anyone who actually makes the effort to come into the games.  That's an argument for another day.  It's totally a culture thing, and 30 years of sucking, as I've said before, will put your fanbase in this shape.

The other things that were stated are a real problem.  Our stadium is so bad, it would be a comedy if it were not so sad.  Is it keeping people away?  Perhaps it's time for the University to look at a proactive "if you build it, they will come" sort of thing with a new stadium.  There is an old saying that is, frankly, true.  You have to spend money to make money.  I hope they can make it happen.

Anyone out there on good terms with the athletic department?  Maybe you could forward them some of our ideas - like NOT calling on all Notre Dame fans during our game!  Or playing the IU game on the big screen during tailgating...


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## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> Anyone out there on good terms with the athletic department?  Maybe you could forward them some of our ideas - like NOT calling on all Notre Dame fans during our game!  Or playing the IU game on the big screen during tailgating...



X 100 these are the things that have been identified in the past and nothing is done. These are simple things!


We are not going to get a new football stadium anytime soon - a lot of our facilities are in rough shape. Just because your house is in bad shape you don't go around and take a dump in the kitchen or laundry room. That is basically what they are doing by saying "For you Irish fans" and showing the IU game outside Memorial Stadium and letting the "sponsor" park his IU plates car right in front of the stadium... The list goes on and on and on - thing we can change and control. 

I've ben intentionally moronic about IU for a long time. No person could possibly hate something as much as I pretend to hate IU - it's all a front but its necessary, people need to understand that things need to change and I go around and do somethint about it. 

Example:

A friend of mine posts a Facebook Pic from Homecoming weekend 6 friends all in Sycamore gear and a Purdont chair front and center - I told her to crop out the chair and post again. She did! 

It don't take much - I know I aint the only one doing this stuff. Most people think I'm nuts - but for me, I aint going to get on here and talk about the stadium sucks, the concessions suck, the announcer sucks, this sucks and that sucks. 

I'm taking matters into my own hands - that is the only way things will change. If you disagree watch the news see how things happen in this country - special interest groups take matters into their own hand.

I'm not saying ITF or anyone else is wrong about these things - its not about being wrong or right. I'm done wasting my time talking about what isn't being done. As I've said before, the people are on here are the people who do own things - case and point, the jersey fund project! Some anonymous donor that visits this forum steps up and does something about it!! It can be done folks!


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## treeman

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> A friend posts a Facebook Pic from Homecoming weekend 6 frinds all in Sycamore gear and a Purdont chair front and center - I told her to crop out the chair and post again. She did!



I love it!!!! when ever i was in a wal-mart i would always take the Indiana State shirts and put them over the IU or Purdue shirts on the racks. 

One thing that i believe kills the atmosphere and creates the "sit on the hands" fans at the game is only have the bleachers on one side. When you are in a stadium you can see people sitting down on the other sides and what they are doing. Because everyone is sitting on one side at memorial stadium you only see the few hundred people around you and if none of them are standing up it is highly unlikely someone else will stand up and cheer. a stadium with seating on each side creates a unity, while our stadium makes you feel isolated because you can't see any other fans during the game.


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## the johnner

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I am less bothered by the people who stay outside the stadium as I am the ones who come into the stadium. You've never seen a group of people collectivly sit on their hands more than people inside Memorial Stadium. If you can't get up off your ass and cheer for 3rd down with 50 seconds left in the game up 1 at midfield you can't cheer for shit.
> 
> What good does it do to worry about the people outside the stadium when the ones inside it don't get invested in the game.
> 
> If I was standing outside Memorial Stadium and Indiana State made a good play I had a hard time telling if it was a good play for us or them - in other words if I was on the fence about coming in the atmosphere made the decision for me.
> 
> Blame it on the stadium, blame it on Terre Haute, blame it on poor concession stands, blame it on poor marketing, blame... Blame... BLAME!
> 
> The problem has been identifed long ago and people don't take the necessary steps to address it!
> 
> It's a freaking mind set - an attitude! Until folks start taking it personal nothing will change. 2 weeks ago a "sponsor" parks in front of Memorial Stadium with an IU liscense plate - I called him on it.
> 
> On Saturday we are sitting watching the game with a bunch of former teammates of mine and some ISU Red fans behind us. One of the ISU Red fans says something to the effect of "This school and city suck" and my teammate (3 beers in mind you) a mind manored individual turned around and was up in these guys faces giving them the business. Someone called the cops on him and they talked to him... Whatever that is the story. The point is you aint got to take it that far but people need to take ownership over this and stop blaming it on this and that - do something about it and it extends beyond going to games that is not enough. Take it personal!
> 
> Thanks - done taking about attendance.
> 
> (note: not directed at anyone in here)


Sycamores State of Mind:  I haven't been very active on sports blogs since this year on Sycamore Pride, so what I'm about to say may not be that noteworthy. Nevertheless, your post on "ATTENDANCE" in my fan, sports blog experience, is the best post I have ever read. You have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head with a 20 pound sledgehammer. You're absolutely correct. No matter how many people are in the stands at the ISU football games I have attended over the last 3 years, be it 1500 or 10,000, at most only 10% of the crowd are behaving like true fans, fans of the team who have taken ownership of Sycamore Football. Instead of attending because they have nothing better to do or have an ulterior motive like meeting the love of their life or at least the love for that night, they are actually there because they're pulling for "THEIR TEAM" and ARE DOING THEIR BEST TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE SYCAMORE FOOTBALL TEAM'S SUCCESS AS IT PLAYS OUT OVER THE COURSE OF THE GAME!!
Frankly I could give a shit about all the other stuff like scores from other games being announced etc. as long as OUR FANS TAKE OWNERSHIP and behave like FAN - ADDICTS , screaming their guts out like I do, when it counts. If they're not sure when those times are, come see me: Section F, Row 14 Seat 19 (or thereabouts-sometimes I can't make out the seat number through these damned bifocals).


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## 4Q_iu

Sycamore Proud said:


> Memorial Stadium does have a few things working in its favor.  As you noted, there are few better areas for tailgating.  Check out the history of the stadium and grounds.  The exterior facade at the main entrance is worth renovation.  Yes, it could be saved and made up to today's standards.  Yes it would be expensive.  Yes, it will remain far from campus.  There again the solution is available but expensive..  The architects and engineers can solve the structural issues.  As for the transportation issues--A high speed monorail cuold connect all athletic facilities to terminals on the main campus and shopping areas as well as the city's parks.  Would this work? Yes. Would it put Indiana State in the forefront of forward thinking universities? Yes.  Would it be expensive?  Yes, but with collaboration of the city, the state of Indiana, Indiana State University, the United State of America and private funding it could be done.  Will it be done?  Heck no--this is ISU.  If eye[ewe, purrdew or even testicle tech it would at least merit consideration.



I agree with virtually all of IndyTreeFan's points.

As to SycProud's monorail idea...  I can't believe you're serious?  Not only never going to happen but not necessary.  If State wants to start a school shuttle service w/ small buses... sure, ok (but isn't there a current T-H bus system...   http://www.terrehaute.in.gov/departments/transit-department)

Best future spot for a ISU football stadium is on the river...


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## REALBird

I hate to be that visiting fan who posts when his team plays you guys and then disappears.  So pardon the interruption, and I hope you guys don't mind a bit of perspective from an opposing fan.

Illinois State in many ways has/had all of the same problems Indiana State has with Memorial Stadium with the old Hancock Stadium.  Except instead of being a few miles away from campus, it was right on Main Street, the front porch to our university.   When I worked for Illinois State I used to see kids tour campus with their parents, and when the parents would ask if we had a football stadium - not realizing they drove past it on their way into town.   I'd hear kids say, "I didn't think we even had a football team" or "Yeah, we have one but we play Division II football" or better yet "Yeah, but we're not as good as the Illini".     Boy those made for some dark days working for my alma mater.   It was nothing to see kids on our campus wearing Illinois gear, and because of our proximity to Champaign, it was not uncommon for people who lived over there to work in Bloomington, or vice-versa.

I tell you if Illinois was doing good, the whole community jumped on board it seems....which did nothing to help our plight as the OTHER school.    All this started to change when we hired Dr. Zenger from K-State.   He actually talked to the community and season ticket holders and wanted to get our perspective on things.    The feedback he received was 1.) Hancock was a dump.  2.) There is too much apathy in Bloomington/Normal towards ISU.  3.) With 60% of our alums in the Chicagoland area, we need a better marketing presences not only there, but in Central Illinois.  4.) We were not happy with the state of the Athletic Department and their efforts over the years.

The University and our President at the time Dr. Al Bowman heard us loud and clear.    We started to see billboads along I-55 in Central Illinois with the "Spread the Red" campaign.   Kids on campus were encouraged to wear RED, and they created a nice shirt "FEAR THE BIRD", students were encouraged to wear them every Friday, and they have free giveaways to students wearing those shirts in and around campus (free meals, gifts from the bookstore, gift cards, free textbook rentals)....in it's 6th or 7th year now, anyone wearing Orange/Blue on this campus is just being a RICHARD.   Our campus is just about O&B free. Our Red Alert student section is almost 4,000 students strong.   We started advertising more in the Chicago area (billboards, radio/television).   We signed contracts with Central Illinois radio stations to be a part of the Redbird Radio Network and broadcast ISU sporting events.     We partnered with Comcast Sports Chicago to show our games on TV to allow our Chicago alums to see Redbird Football and Basketball several times a year.

Dr. Zenger renovated the baseball facility, tennis facility, softball, football and basketball arenas in part or totally to make our facilities attractive to not only recruits but to the fans/community.     We've had in-house catering and external food vendors share responsibility to give the fans better food experience at the games.    But most importantly, we hired coaches we felt wanted to be here and who would buy into being a part of selling the facilities, the experience and Redbird Athletics.

There is no one size fits all solution, but having your AD and President on the same page with the same vision certainly helped us tremendously.   Our vision in Athletics was to provide a quality experience for ISU students/faculty/alums and student-athletes.  Our vision from the President was to make Illinois State University the clear and obvious 2nd choice and a competitor to UIUC for students in-state.  We went from almost 16,000 enrollment in the early 2000's to over 20,000 this year, with plans to expand and increase by a few thousand more students in the next few years.   While other schools like SIU, Bradley, WIU, EIU are declining in enrollment, ours is growing.

As someone who has been where you guys are, I surely hope you guys can upgrade the football facility.   It does make a huge difference in terms of selling your program.   BTW.....they usually only announce the Illinois score in our stadium if they're losing, and only as a part of "In Other Football Action" around the State.


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## sdjessie

Have missed very few home games in my 31 years as a season ticket holder ... but sciatica was acting up so badly on Saturday that I decided to watch on TV ...and I will say almost stumbling on the uneven blacktop at the last game ( where I came early and never left my seat until the game ended and cheered loudly) ) and the lack of renovation in that area may have played a role in my decision ... and since I attend most games live I was a more than a little disappointed when the announcers told the viewing audience that we did not have replay capability ....  having been tenured at Mississippi State before coming here how could I not compare what they showed on TV in Starkville ... with the students holding up "Stark - Vegas " signs  ... and the Bulldog coach stating that you build the game day experience first and get great fan support and that MUST be done first  and then the wins will come ...  will not say more or I will be labeled as a complainer.


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## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> First off, I'm not going to piss on anyone who actually makes the effort to come into the games.  That's an argument for another day.  It's totally a culture thing, and 30 years of sucking, as I've said before, will put your fanbase in this shape.
> 
> The other things that were stated are a real problem.  Our stadium is so bad, it would be a comedy if it were not so sad.  Is it keeping people away?  Perhaps it's time for the University to look at a proactive "if you build it, they will come" sort of thing with a new stadium.  There is an old saying that is, frankly, true.  You have to spend money to make money.  I hope they can make it happen.
> 
> Anyone out there on good terms with the athletic department?  Maybe you could forward them some of our ideas - like NOT calling on all Notre Dame fans during our game!  Or playing the IU game on the big screen during tailgating...



It's 100% student and alumni culture. I keep having this discussion with Tanner because he states nobody wants to go to the games. I keep telling him it is going to take a handful of guys crossing the lines and going. If the right guys go, others will follow suit. This was the least attended Homecoming event I can remember in a long time. The Bally was dead on Friday night and Greek tents were pretty bare most of the day Saturday, especially the sorority tents. So I think it goes even beyond sports and to the school. 

I do know that I think everything should be aimed towards students at this point. The Forest leadership needs to go to every fraternity and sorority and ask them to be the "leaders" they claim to be on campus and get into the games. They also need to get with Greek governing organizations and come up with an incentive. My suggestion would be an additional School Spirit award on Greek awards night and then fundraise Greek alumni to contribute towards some sort of award. I know you shouldn't have to, but that's where we're at IMO.


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## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> It's 100% student and alumni culture. I keep having this discussion with Tanner because he states nobody wants to go to the games. I keep telling him it is going to take a handful of guys crossing the lines and going. If the right guys go, others will follow suit. This was the least attended Homecoming event I can remember in a long time. The Bally was dead on Friday night and Greek tents were pretty bare most of the day Saturday, especially the sorority tents. So I think it goes even beyond sports and to the school.
> 
> I do know that I think everything should be aimed towards students at this point. The Forest leadership needs to go to every fraternity and sorority and ask them to be the "leaders" they claim to be on campus and get into the games. They also need to get with Greek governing organizations and come up with an incentive. My suggestion would be an additional School Spirit award on Greek awards night and then fundraise Greek alumni to contribute towards some sort of award. I know you shouldn't have to, but that's where we're at IMO.



Just to further my first statement. We've had 7x the visits to the football forum today from NDSU.NoDak.edu than we've had from INDSTATE.edu.


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## new sycamore fan

Agree with Jason here.  In my 8 years coming to all of the home games, I don't think I've ever seen more than 500-1,000 students at any game, and I'm probably being generous.  There are probably more school administrators at most games than students.  Alumni, other than those connected in some way to the football program, apparently have no reason to attend and probably haven't.  A new or rebuilt stadium would help attendence in the short term, but would it be sustainable?  A culture change within the university is the only way to increase attendence.


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## The Fungo

I would agree with those that say it is a culture thing. 99% of these kids didn't grow up being Indiana State fans. It is always IU, PU, ND and few Butler basketball fans. The only reason most of the kids are going to State is because it is close to home (what percent of ISU are commuters), Scholarship (both academic and sports), and grades (or lack of grades). I have heard many a student say that if it wasn't for the scholarship they would have never chosen ISU. There have been several other post, in other forums, that ISU will take lower test scores that other schools wouldn't accept. IMO most of these kids keep their sports alliance with the school they grew up with because the other colleges in Indiana have been national powers in one sport or another.

The real thing to change the culture is to WIN and WIN often.  The football team was the worst in the nation for years... 1 or 2 winning seasons isn't going to change the culture. Winning the conference most years and a national championship or two can. The basketball team is usually competitive, but so are a lot of schools. They need to win the conference year in and year out, make and elite 8 and a final 4, maybe get to the national championship (ala Butler) and maybe you change the culture. The baseball teams are usually good, competitive teams. They win 25 or 30 games a  year, but they have what, 1 MVC conference championship. They need to win some more. Host a regional, make it to Omaha a few times, and maybe you change the culture. Same with all the women's sports, change the culture by winning. Most fans are proud of the track and cross county programs because the win and win often. Sadly though those sports don't have a huge national following, so that does not help the ISU culture.

Look at the forums when the sport of the season is doing well. It doesn't take long for one person to ask how long until the team bombs and is out of the running. It's the culture. Change it by winning.

Nice beautiful buildings can help. Might bring in more or better recruits that would have gone elsewhere, but it is not going to necessarily change the culture or get more fannies in the seats. Winning and Winning often will.

I grew up an IU fan, but swore them off when my son started going to ISU. I figured if ISU can give my son a scholarship, I am going to root for them and root for them in all sports. Not just his four years either. I am an ISU fan 'til the end. I am also realistic and know that ISU being a mid-major isn't going to have the same success as the bigger schools because of money, but it doesn't mean that they can't be competitive and win, it just means that it is not going to happen every year. You want to change the culture. WIN.


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## STATE Fan 95

Winning does clear all.  What are we averaging this year?  I would say that it is getting better but not where we all would like it.  How are the the other school putting butts in the stands?  What is the university doing to sell the program?  We all can think of better ways to get more people but who is going to listen to us?  As far as tailgating, I would say it is probably a problem of not getting all the tailgate people in the stadium everywhere.  I would say if they dont have a car does not have a ticket to the game charge them 5 bucks to park.  As far as a new stadium I wonder what kind of plan and what it will look like.  Why not have a campaign to start something.  If it fails money will still go in the program.   I know if I or someone dontates xxx of millions of dollars there is a stadium.  Still would like to what it would take or what has been done to start building it.


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## Jason Svoboda

STATE Fan 95 said:


> Winning does clear all.  What are we averaging this year?  I would say that it is getting better but not where we all would like it.  How are the the other school putting butts in the stands?  What is the university doing to sell the program?  We all can think of better ways to get more people but who is going to listen to us?  As far as tailgating, I would say it is probably a problem of not getting all the tailgate people in the stadium everywhere.  I would say if they dont have a car does not have a ticket to the game charge them 5 bucks to park.  As far as a new stadium I wonder what kind of plan and what it will look like.  Why not have a campaign to start something.  If it fails money will still go in the program.   I know if I or someone dontates xxx of millions of dollars there is a stadium.  Still would like to what it would take or what has been done to start building it.



We're at 6063 with two "cold weather" games remaining. The average for all late season games since 2010 is 4871. If we hit that average in both of our remaining games, we'd finish 2014 with a 5144 average which would be the lowest in 5 years. Hopefully we can exceed the previous 4 year average so people need to send positive waves for awesome weather. Here is 2010-2013:

2010 - 5478
2011 - 6567
2012 - 6605
2013 - 5421

If winning clears all, I don't know how you can explain hoops attendance.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Part of the problem is ISU events are boring.  People like to be entertained from the minute they get out of their car until they get back home.  Basketball and football games are dull.  If you're not a die hard fan, there's really nothing to draw you there.  Just a thought.


----------



## STATE Fan 95

Ok so thinking with basketball coming to mind winning does not clear all.  Probably only championships and free tickets.  When Se rvPro bought out the human center a few years in a row that filled up the place.  At 10 bucks a ticket, it is a steal compared to iu, purdue and the colts.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

STATE Fan 95 said:


> Ok so thinking with basketball coming to mind winning does clear all.  Probably only championships and free tickets.  When Se rvPro bought out the human center a few years in a row that filled up the place.  At 10 bucks a ticket, it is a steal compared to iu, purdue and the colts.



ServPro's free tickets never once came close to filling the place.


----------



## The Fungo

Jason Svoboda said:


> We're at 6063 with two "cold weather" games remaining. The average for all late season games since 2010 is 4871. If we hit that average in both of our remaining games, we'd finish 2014 with a 5144 average which would be the lowest in 5 years. Hopefully we can exceed the previous 4 year average so people need to send positive waves for awesome weather. Here is 2010-2013:
> 
> 2010 - 5478
> 2011 - 6567
> 2012 - 6605
> 2013 - 5421
> 
> *If winning clears all, I don't know how you can explain hoops attendance.*




http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdf

According to this link, ISU basketball averages abt 5,700 in a 10,000 seat arena.  THAT IS MY POINT.  What has basketball won?  They aren't winning the MVC every year. They haven't made the sweet 16 every year...the elite 8...the final 4. They like most of the ISU sports are doing a nice job. They are winning games, they are usually in the thick of things, but they are not winning championships. None of the sports are. People root for champions. That is why there are so many ND football fans who root for IU basketball. Everyone wants to root for a winner. It sucks !! I make fun of those people. When I was an IU fan I rooted for them in all sports, win or lose, but maybe I was the crazy one, maybe I should have been rooting for ND football.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

The Fungo said:


> I would agree with those that say it is a culture thing. 99% of these kids didn't grow up being Indiana State fans. It is always IU, PU, ND and few Butler basketball fans. The only reason most of the kids are going to State is because it is close to home (what percent of ISU are commuters), Scholarship (both academic and sports), and grades (or lack of grades). I have heard many a student say that if it wasn't for the scholarship they would have never chosen ISU. There have been several other post, in other forums, that ISU will take lower test scores that other schools wouldn't accept. IMO most of these kids keep their sports alliance with the school they grew up with because the other colleges in Indiana have been national powers in one sport or another.
> 
> The real thing to change the culture is to WIN and WIN often.  The football team was the worst in the nation for years... 1 or 2 winning seasons isn't going to change the culture. Winning the conference most years and a national championship or two can. The basketball team is usually competitive, but so are a lot of schools. They need to win the conference year in and year out, make and elite 8 and a final 4, maybe get to the national championship (ala Butler) and maybe you change the culture. The baseball teams are usually good, competitive teams. They win 25 or 30 games a  year, but they have what, 1 MVC conference championship. They need to win some more. Host a regional, make it to Omaha a few times, and maybe you change the culture. Same with all the women's sports, change the culture by winning. Most fans are proud of the track and cross county programs because the win and win often. Sadly though those sports don't have a huge national following, so that does not help the ISU culture.
> 
> Look at the forums when the sport of the season is doing well. It doesn't take long for one person to ask how long until the team bombs and is out of the running. It's the culture. Change it by winning.
> 
> Nice beautiful buildings can help. Might bring in more or better recruits that would have gone elsewhere, but it is not going to necessarily change the culture or get more fannies in the seats. Winning and Winning often will.
> 
> I grew up an IU fan, but swore them off when my son started going to ISU. I figured if ISU can give my son a scholarship, I am going to root for them and root for them in all sports. Not just his four years either. I am an ISU fan 'til the end. I am also realistic and know that ISU being a mid-major isn't going to have the same success as the bigger schools because of money, but it doesn't mean that they can't be competitive and win, it just means that it is not going to happen every year. You want to change the culture. WIN.



If you want to win you don't focus on winning. You focus on the culture, people and processes that produce wins.


----------



## southernindianaballer

IndyTreeFan said:


> OK, I know we've beaten this dead horse for years.  But I was having a conversation tonight with a fellow Tree, and I had a thought that I haven't previously had.  (Maybe some of you have had it)  Does Memorial Stadium _itself_ keep people away from the games?  Here's what I was thinking when this thought popped into my head.
> 
> 1.  Memorial Stadium is old and crumbling.  I mean, by stadium standards, it's ancient.  It hasn't been kept up adequately through the years, heck it hasn't been kept up at all.  It looks as though it could collapse at any moment.  It just looks bad.  In fact, it just looks scary.  I find it a bit disconcerting (don't throw a flag...) that I can look from my seat in row 46, through a crack, and see the ground 100 feet below.
> 
> 2.  It isn't ADA compliant.  It's not even remotely user friendly.  There are no hand rails on the stairs.  The only access to the seating areas are from the very bottom.  If you are going to the top rows, you almost need to have oxygen.  Seriously, there's a reason that running the steps at the stadium is a _punishment_!!!  The seats are cold hard bleachers.  Only about 1/8 of the stadium even has seat backs.  The bathrooms are from the Stone Age.
> 
> 3.  Memorial Stadium has zero amenities.  Zip, zilch, nada.  The press box is probably the worst non-high school press box in America.  The concession areas are a complete joke.  The scoreboards and video and audio are all substandard.  No club seating, no lounge area for donors.  There are only two small ticket windows (not that we need more at this point).
> 
> 4.  We cannot host night games.  The lighting system is so bad that if a game goes OT and it gets dark, it actually looks like it's being played in twilight on tv.
> 
> 5.  It only has seats on one side.  Not exactly a college football experience.  Although there aren't many stadiums that provide a nice hill as a perfect display ad for Ford Trucks...
> 
> 6.  Memorial Stadium cannot handle the technological needs of today's MVFC football games.  They actually said on the telecast yesterday that the stadium doesn't have the necessary technology to do replay.  The conference went to replay for all conference games this year.  Except those games at ISU, I guess.
> 
> 7.  The tailgating area is actually too good.  When a new stadium is built, the one thing that will be missed from Memorial Stadium will be the park-like atmosphere for tailgating.  The tailgating area is so good, going into the stadium might just not be worth the hassle.  We're developing a great tailgating atmosphere, and I'm beginning to think that it's hurting the game attendance.
> 
> Memorial Stadium holds a lot of great memories for me.  But our struggles to get even a respectable crowd at the games, despite ranked teams coming in, despite being ranked ourselves, despite having 20,000 people outside the stadium at freaking Homecoming, have me wondering if the stadium itself isn't the barrier.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on this?



Yes... the stadium is a big part of the problem....  it's part if the culture...  you know it can be fixed....  hire jason as a fund raiser.... He can easily raise 10 million from alumni.... have him take his small share for the effort whatever that may be and the stadium is started.... by pass all this shi$$ and call it the Alumni Wabash Cannonball Stadium.  Or someone with a true love for ISU take this project.   Is anyone out there?  100k living ISU alumni are out there.  Like Jason has said.... If you target the right people for the right amount $$ it is done.   Don't say people won't give $5,000 because they will!  Put their name on a wall at the stadium if they want it.  It takes effort and time though.


----------



## southernindianaballer

IndyTreeFan said:


> OK, I know we've beaten this dead horse for years.  But I was having a conversation tonight with a fellow Tree, and I had a thought that I haven't previously had.  (Maybe some of you have had it)  Does Memorial Stadium _itself_ keep people away from the games?  Here's what I was thinking when this thought popped into my head.
> 
> 1.  Memorial Stadium is old and crumbling.  I mean, by stadium standards, it's ancient.  It hasn't been kept up adequately through the years, heck it hasn't been kept up at all.  It looks as though it could collapse at any moment.  It just looks bad.  In fact, it just looks scary.  I find it a bit disconcerting (don't throw a flag...) that I can look from my seat in row 46, through a crack, and see the ground 100 feet below.
> 
> 2.  It isn't ADA compliant.  It's not even remotely user friendly.  There are no hand rails on the stairs.  The only access to the seating areas are from the very bottom.  If you are going to the top rows, you almost need to have oxygen.  Seriously, there's a reason that running the steps at the stadium is a _punishment_!!!  The seats are cold hard bleachers.  Only about 1/8 of the stadium even has seat backs.  The bathrooms are from the Stone Age.
> 
> 3.  Memorial Stadium has zero amenities.  Zip, zilch, nada.  The press box is probably the worst non-high school press box in America.  The concession areas are a complete joke.  The scoreboards and video and audio are all substandard.  No club seating, no lounge area for donors.  There are only two small ticket windows (not that we need more at this point).
> 
> 4.  We cannot host night games.  The lighting system is so bad that if a game goes OT and it gets dark, it actually looks like it's being played in twilight on tv.
> 
> 5.  It only has seats on one side.  Not exactly a college football experience.  Although there aren't many stadiums that provide a nice hill as a perfect display ad for Ford Trucks...
> 
> 6.  Memorial Stadium cannot handle the technological needs of today's MVFC football games.  They actually said on the telecast yesterday that the stadium doesn't have the necessary technology to do replay.  The conference went to replay for all conference games this year.  Except those games at ISU, I guess.
> 
> 7.  The tailgating area is actually too good.  When a new stadium is built, the one thing that will be missed from Memorial Stadium will be the park-like atmosphere for tailgating.  The tailgating area is so good, going into the stadium might just not be worth the hassle.  We're developing a great tailgating atmosphere, and I'm beginning to think that it's hurting the game attendance.
> 
> Memorial Stadium holds a lot of great memories for me.  But our struggles to get even a respectable crowd at the games, despite ranked teams coming in, despite being ranked ourselves, despite having 20,000 people outside the stadium at freaking Homecoming, have me wondering if the stadium itself isn't the barrier.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on this?



I can pretty much guarantee you that Dr. Bradley has said either at the dinner table or in his mind, "Yes, we need a new stadium and need it bad but there are many other academic priorities, and you know what?  If the alumni or students can take ownership in the stadium facility it will give them the required buy in.  The attendance will rise because they are in it.  No donation is too small or too large.  But we need a buy in by the ISU community that reflects their ownership."  Think about it.


----------



## southernindianaballer

southernindianaballer said:


> I can pretty much guarantee you that Dr. Bradley has said either at the dinner table or in his mind, "Yes, we need a new stadium and need it bad but there are many other academic priorities, and you know what?  If the alumni or students can take ownership in the stadium facility it will give them the required buy in.  The attendance will rise because they are in it.  No donation is too small or too large.  But we need a buy in by the ISU community that reflects their ownership."  Think about it.


Fyi.... that is not a literal quote.  To be clear.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

southernindianaballer said:


> Yes... the stadium is a big part of the problem....  it's part if the culture...  you know it can be fixed....  hire jason as a fund raiser.... He can easily raise 10 million from alumni.... have him take his small share for the effort whatever that may be and the stadium is started.... by pass all this shi$$ and call it the Alumni Wabash Cannonball Stadium.  Or someone with a true love for ISU take this project.   Is anyone out there?  100k living ISU alumni are out there.  Like Jason has said.... If you target the right people for the right amount $$ it is done.   Don't say people won't give $5,000 because they will!  Put their name on a wall at the stadium if they want it.  It takes effort and time though.



Jason couldn't raise 10 million if you gave him 9.5 million and told him to raise the other 500k on his own...


----------



## Syc70

Why not try laying out schematic drawings and plans to alumni, students, and public and say this is what we want?  What do you want?  Here is what we need and start getting donations over the next couple of years with a target date for fundraising goals.  Hold the money in escrow for later use, whenever that may be.  I agree that "taking ownership"  would enhance the image and chances.  It would have a profound impact on downtown TH, so signage, naming rights, brick walkway with donors names, etc. could accomplish some of this.  You never know if you don't try.


----------



## 4Q_iu

The Fungo said:


> [/B]
> 
> http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdf
> 
> According to this link, ISU basketball averages abt 5,700 in a 10,000 seat arena.  THAT IS MY POINT.  What has basketball won?  They aren't winning the MVC every year. They haven't made the sweet 16 every year...the elite 8...the final 4. They like most of the ISU sports are doing a nice job. They are winning games, they are usually in the thick of things, but they are not winning championships. None of the sports are. People root for champions. That is why there are so many ND football fans who root for IU basketball. Everyone wants to root for a winner. It sucks !! I make fun of those people. When I was an IU fan I rooted for them in all sports, win or lose, but maybe I was the crazy one, maybe I should have been rooting for ND football.



"...That is why there are so many ND football fans who root for IU basketball..."  Name the MULTIPLE championships these
two programs have won in the LIFETIME of any current State undergrad?

Here's a hint -- NONE

320+ schools play Div I MBB -- only 1 wins 'the title,' 125+ schools play Div I FBS and another 120+ schools play Div I FCS;
78 schools will go to a bowl but only 24 schools make the playoffs and only 1 wins the title.

My point -- WIN but if the 'only thing we do is make the playoffs and advance 1 game' it's STILL a successful season.  The problem?
TOO few fans have that perspective; today, its COMPLETELY about either win the whole thing or don't compete.

what does that perspective get you??    Saban's current 'problem' --- the Bama fans are on his ass b/c the Tide 'only one by a point...'


----------



## niklz62

Thinking about this a little more, I think the only thing about MS that is keeping students away is the location.  Im not saying that it the only thing keeping them away, just the only thing about our current stadium.

Also, ive never sat in a chair back seats and been comfortable


----------



## bent20

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I am less bothered by the people who stay outside the stadium as I am the ones who come into the stadium. You've never seen a group of people collectivly sit on their hands more than people inside Memorial Stadium. If you can't get up off your ass and cheer for 3rd down with 50 seconds left in the game up 1 at midfield you can't cheer for shit.



That was one of my gripes last week. We have knowledgeable fans when it comes to basketball, when it comes to football most seem confused. To me, you get up and cheer every time an opponent faces third down. You stay near silent when our offense is at the line (OK to cheer your ass off once the ball is snapped). 

A more enthusiastic crowd would make the games more entertaining and more enticing for fans on the fringe, I think.

To the original question, does the condition of Memorial Stadium keep fans away? Yes. More importantly, the stadium itself doesn't draw fans in. Fun to park around it though, apparently.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

The Fungo said:


> [/B]
> 
> http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdf
> 
> According to this link, ISU basketball averages abt 5,700 in a 10,000 seat arena.  THAT IS MY POINT.  What has basketball won?  They aren't winning the MVC every year. They haven't made the sweet 16 every year...the elite 8...the final 4. They like most of the ISU sports are doing a nice job. They are winning games, they are usually in the thick of things, but they are not winning championships. None of the sports are. People root for champions. That is why there are so many ND football fans who root for IU basketball. Everyone wants to root for a winner. It sucks !! I make fun of those people. When I was an IU fan I rooted for them in all sports, win or lose, but maybe I was the crazy one, maybe I should have been rooting for ND football.



If that was the criteria for attendance only handful of programs will ever have good attendance. 

This school has had a very solid run over the last several years. We've not had a losing record since 2008-2009, we've made it to 4 straight post season tournaments, 1 Big Dance and play in a Top 12 conference. We have a fantastic facility in the Hulman Center where there isn't a bad seat in the house to watch a basketball game. We've had some very talented players during the same time that are playing professionally. 

At what point should the finger be turned back on the individual for having no fucking school spirit? Why must a team be of national championship caliber to attend a game? Why must they have to play some hipster music to attend a game? This is your current school or your alma mater depending on if you're a student or alum. This is the school you support. Period. Or get the fuck off my campus! Harsh, yes but damn it I'm sick of the excuses for our students and alumni.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> That was one of my gripes last week. We have knowledgeable fans when it comes to basketball, when it comes to football most seem confused. To me, you get up and cheer every time an opponent faces third down. You stay near silent when our offense is at the line (OK to cheer your ass off once the ball is snapped).
> 
> A more enthusiastic crowd would make the games more entertaining and more enticing for fans on the fringe, I think.
> 
> To the original question, does the condition of Memorial Stadium keep fans away? Yes. More importantly, the stadium itself doesn't draw fans in. Fun to park around it though, apparently.



The PA announcer has to prompt it. He just does. He needs to quit with the "Alright Sycamore fans, you know what to do" line and directly state "Alright Sycamore fans, get on your feet... it's thirrrrrrrrrrrrrrd dowwwwwwwn" like they did a couple years ago because they obviously don't. Not sure why they changed, but that is the voice the fans hear the most during the games. He has to give direct orders. 

Those people running the scoreboard and audio also need to be taught a football IQ class. During several Sycamore offensive series they played "Get Loud" graphics on the video board and I can recall several instances this year where they've played music that is terrible for the situation. Once was in the Liberty game and even their fans and media people Tweeted about it -- like playing the "Timber" song when we're on defense.


----------



## bent20

On the cost issue, does a new stadium have to be that much? Assuming we get the land and location, we could always add seating capacity later and just get a start (as we've discussed before). Even most small stadiums these days cost 10-30 million, but they also include luxury suites and other amenities. Most get started with a large donation.

List of FCS stadiums (note the year some were built and their size):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_FCS_football_stadiums

Smaller, recently built stadiums (costs tend to be cheaper with fewer amenities and seats):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ford_Field
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Stadium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Claiborne_Robins_Stadium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moye_Complex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saluki_Stadium

Article from two years ago about Alabama high schools trying to build a cheap stadium (talks about stadiums ranging from $3-4M) with a seating capacity over 5,000.
http://blog.al.com/live/2012/08/is_it_possible_to_build_new_fo.html


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I like to call this the "run-of-show" it has been lacking for a long time. People read the forum, they see our suggestions and then they just go to the next week and go oh well lets see how we do this week. Changes will not be made. 

It's like a free survey every week for them - what do our customers think about our experience? They don't have to pay top dollar for the survey, all they need to do is poll this forum on a given week and they can get many take-aways. The good, the bad, the ugly and then make plans and implement the changes! Seems simple enough to me. 

We are not even talking about big "money" changes - these things are free. 

I can tell you what though, go on the road and lose 2 strait games and 3 strait all together they should have a hell of a turnout on November 1, people will come out in droves for that one. Heck who am I kidding they could get the split on the road and it wouldn't matter... 

In the grand scheme of things I don't think most "Sycamore fans" really care about the outcome of a game. It doesn't matter to them...


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

If you guys want to talk about an immediate solution to the stadium conversation please ignore the fact that I have been saying this all along and put your personal preference and bias aside - I like most of you all would love nothing more than track to have a stand-alone facility and football to have its own facility. That conversation has came and went and went again... It's over, quit being stubborn about this!

If Indiana State fans want a football stadium then start to think about simple economics - put the football field inside the new track and build a stadium around sucker. It's a solution for the track program and the football program - it brings everything on campus and it solves this whole conversation...

But naaa we still got fans who are worried about sitting too far away from the field. Wake up, please - that should be the least of your worries as fans.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> If you guys want to talk about an immediate solution to the stadium conversation please ignore the fact that I have been saying this all along and put your personal preference and bias aside - I like most of you all would love nothing more than track to have a stand-alone facility and football to have its own facility. That conversation has came and went and went again... It's over, quit being stubborn about this!
> 
> If Indiana State fans want a football stadium then start to think about simple economics - put the football field inside the new track and build a stadium around sucker. It's a solution for the track program and the football program - it brings everything on campus and it solves this whole conversation...
> 
> But naaa we still got fans who are worried about sitting too far away from the field. Wake up, please - that should be the least of your worries as fans.



I wouldn't renew my season tickets if that were the type of stadium we played in. I'd simply renew my Sycamore Vision subscription and watch from home. I've been in probably 45 different CFB stadiums, if not more. There is a reason why damn near nobody has these sorts of facilities.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> I wouldn't renew my season tickets if that were the type of stadium we played in. I'd simply renew my Sycamore Vision subscription and watch from home. I've been in probably 45 different CFB stadiums, if not more. There is a reason why damn near nobody has these sorts of facilities.



Then your stuborn which I already knew. So I suggest you get going on that 10 million that someone on here thinks you can raise in your sleep, high praise... 

Because playing in a stadium with a track around it is so much worse than playing in a stadium that you can dump hot coffee on someone, a dirt hill on the opposite side of the grandstands, a practice field not being used, a roof with standing water in the west endzone... So you will buy tickets for Memorial Stadium given its current issues but not a brand new stadium with a track around it? Makes sense to me, not stuborn at all...


----------



## Westbadenboy

Several things:

1) If an old stadium and lack of winning were the issue, then the Cubs would have been shut down a LONG time ago.

2) YES !  We need a new on campus stadium.

3) NO !  Do not build a new stadium on campus that is CRAP -- that will do no good.  Do it right or do NOT do it.   Period.

4) As noted many times in past posts, the problem at MS is not entirely distance from campus.  We had plenty of people at MS last weekend.  Problem was half of them were OUTSIDE the stadium.  Get'em inside and the place is packed with hundreds on the hillside too

5) Not sure what is happening with the game programs, but at least TH businesses were spending $$$ to advertise.  The "pamphlet" programs need to go away.  Very "bush league".

6)  The Forest -- to those of you there -- GREAT !  Get your other members there too !  (And everyone enroll at least one more student in The Forest)

7)  The Band -- love you guys.  Overall very good job.  BUT  ................double your numbers ............quickly ..................become a true "university" size band ----- now only a medium size high school band.  By the way your energy in the stands is great !  You energy on the field (pre-game & halftime) is very, very poor.  Enter the field with energy not a slow walkon.
Anymore crap about anti marching band in the Music Dept   ------  Dr Bradley kicked some ass !  Make it clear this must be fixed right away.

8) Do what it takes to make clear to the public, to current ISU students, and to high school kids that ISU football is Div I

9)  Turn down the music some  --  rap etc is fine but mix in something that adult fans will like also

10) Take a look at everything at our athletic events (BB & FB)  ..............EVERYTHING !  Much of what needs to fixed costs nothing or very little.  FIX whatever makes us look "2nd class" and/or turns people off.

                      GET STARTED !


----------



## niklz62

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Then your stuborn which I already knew. So I suggest you get going on that 10 million that someone on here thinks you can raise in your sleep, high praise...
> 
> Because playing in a stadium with a track around it is so much worse than playing in a stadium that you can dump hot coffee on someone, a dirt hill on the opposite side of the grandstands, a practice field not being used, a roof with standing water in the west endzone... So you will buy tickets for Memorial Stadium given its current issues but not a brand new stadium with a track around it? Makes sense to me, not stuborn at all...



If i have to watch a game across a track, I will be going around dumping hot coffee in people's faces out of spite.

just kidding


----------



## niklz62

Westbadenboy said:


> Several things:
> 
> 1) If an old stadium and lack of winning were the issue, then the Cubs would have been shut down a LONG time ago.
> 
> 2) YES !  We need a new on campus stadium.
> 
> 3) NO !  Do not build a new stadium on campus that is CRAP -- that will do no good.  Do it right or do NOT do it.   Period.
> 
> 4) As noted many times in past posts, the problem at MS is not entirely distance from campus.  We had plenty of people at MS last weekend.  Problem was half of them were OUTSIDE the stadium.  Get'em inside and the place is packed with hundreds on the hillside too
> 
> 5) Not sure what is happening with the game programs, but at least TH businesses were spending $$$ to advertise.  The "pamphlet" programs need to go away.  Very "bush league".
> 
> 6)  The Forest -- to those of you there -- GREAT !  Get your other members there too !  (And everyone enroll at least one more student in The Forest)
> 
> 7)  The Band -- love you guys.  Overall very good job.  BUT  ................double your numbers ............quickly ..................become a true "university" size band ----- now only a medium size high school band.  By the way your energy in the stands is great !  You energy on the field (pre-game & halftime) is very, very poor.  Enter the field with energy not a slow walkon.
> Anymore crap about anti marching band in the Music Dept   ------  Dr Bradley kicked some ass !  Make it clear this must be fixed right away.
> 
> 8) Do what it takes to make clear to the public, to current ISU students, and to high school kids that ISU football is Div I
> 
> 9)  Turn down the music some  --  rap etc is fine but mix in something that adult fans will like also
> 
> 10) Take a look at everything at our athletic events (BB & FB)  ..............EVERYTHING !  Much of what needs to fixed costs nothing or very little.  FIX whatever makes us look "2nd class" and/or turns people off.
> 
> GET STARTED !



#9. they played motorhead.  how could it get better.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Bosie State at one time had a track around the stadium. They won football games, got paid and upgaded - don't think they still have the track but as most recent as 2012 they did.

Texas State. 

Eastern Michigan 

University of Buffalo from the MAC.

Many years ago (2004) Standord played in a stadium with a track around the outside. They won football games and upgraded.

PENN still plays in a stadium with a track around the outside. 

Kansas JHawks football stadium has a track around the outside. 

Washington Huskies - track around the outside of a football field.

Drake University, world famous stadium with a track around the outside. 

Eastern Illinois, track around the outside.

I love it! Sycamore football fans that are too proud to have a football field with a track around the outside. You'd rather play in the dump that is Memorial Stadium - helps me understand what level of logic I am working with here at SycamorePride. Keep being proud boys, keep living the dream! Our football stadium is quite possibly the most pathetic in all of college football and you all worried about playing around a track. 

So let me get this strait - in a thread that is about attendance and culture we have 2 "fans" that would do the following if we built a football field inside of a track:

1. Not buy season tickets. 

2. Poor coffees in people's faces.

Anyone else care to add to this list?!?! LMAO


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SSOM, is it possible, even remotely, that ISU doesn't want to put the track and football field together because track has been crapped on long enough and they deserve their own facility (shared with a fall sport)?  Just thinking out loud, but putting track, soccer, and football all in the same facility kinda sucks for the most successful program at ISU.

I think it's pretty obvious from the plans that are out there that track is only going to have to share with soccer.  They deserve that.  They deserve a facility that is as nice as anyone has in D-I.  They don't get that with a football stadium around it.  Then, it becomes "the football stadium" and people will demand that the football program takes precedence.  That's my take, anyway.

Embrace the madness, my friend.  The Track facility and the football stadium aren't going to be together...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

What year was Memorial Stadium built? Answer me that and then let's talk about upgrades. Let's be real. 

As for your list, I've been to three of those places (EIU, EMU and the old Husky stadium) and the viewing experience sucked. Washington no longer has a track around their field. It also cost them $200+ million to reconfigure. The school has one crack at this when they do build it. Do it right or don't do it at all.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

*Fargo Dome cost = $80,000,000 in 2014 dollars.  Enough said.*  Too many positives, makes too much sense.  ISU will never do it...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Twitch, I know you think it is ridiculous, but the farther away from the action, the less you can feel it and feel like you're a part of it. There is a reason when they build all of these new arenas and stadiums that they try to get the fans as close as possible.

I spend a nice chunk of change to drive from Fishers, tailgate and attend the games. If my experience was lessened, I'd just prefer to watch it on TV as I would save a considerable amount of money for the same experience. I used to attend Pacers games pretty frequently but when they upped the prices and pushed me higher up into Bankers Life Fieldhouse, the costs outweighed the experience. It's a very real and completely logical concern.


----------



## bent20

Regarding the thought of do it right, or don't do it at all. That could keep us away from having a new stadium for years, and we don't have years at this point. Memorial Stadium needs to replaced in the next five years. The university can't keeping burying its head in the sand and pretending otherwise. A clear plan should be announced by the university and progress updates should be given regularly (say in the alumni magazine). Get something simple and affordable started, get it done now rather than later, and improve the facility in future years.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I've enjoyed this thread - been fun. But I'm done, my point has been made! This has been good stuff fellas, time for me to walk away from it.

1. To answer your question Jason before I go, google
Search shows 1923?!?!

2. To answer your question ITF, no I don't think Indiana State thinks in those terms. In fact, if they were smart they would realize it is a remote possability that one of the two programs is cut one day and atleast they wouldn't have a facility vacated if that was the case. In addition, they don't have the funding as it stands to do the track the right way anyway. The current plans have no lights, seating, bathrooms, locker rooms, concessions, etc. John McNichols secures the single largest athletic donation in the history of the University and they still can't fully fund the project and do it right and you people (great folks BTW) want to argue over a track being around the outside?!?!

Here is my issue - I am not having this football stadium conversation with you guys for the next 10 years, I will sell my naming rights to someone (SycamoreStateofMind for sale) before I have this bleeping conversation with you all again. It has been talked about and talked about on here and you all don't realize a stand alone facilitiy is not only not fisically responsible its never going to happen. And although I respect each and every one of the opinions expressed on here, I don't care if you got friggin Wrigley Field or Sanford Stadium or whatever, when the owner of SycamorePride the person who most represents Sycamore Nation says he aint buying season tickets if a track is around the outside of the football stadium I can tell you - the culture aint that real! People aint coming new stadium or not and thats the truth.

Love ya guys!! Just speaking from the heart - now time to be a non-active listener on this subject!


----------



## bent20

It will be an endless discussion until the university makes a decision and offers a solid plan. Will there be a football program going forward, or not?


----------



## niklz62

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I've enjoyed this thread - been fun. But I'm done, my point has been made! This has been good stuff fellas, time for me to walk away from it.
> 
> 1. To answer your question Jason before I go, google
> Search shows 1923?!?!
> 
> 2. To answer your question ITF, no I don't think Indiana State thinks in those terms. In fact, if they were smart they would realize it is a remote possability that one of the two programs is cut one day and atleast they wouldn't have a facility vacated if that was the case. In addition, they don't have the funding as it stands to do the track the right way anyway. The current plans have no lights, seating, bathrooms, locker rooms, concessions, etc. John McNichols secures the single largest athletic donation in the history of the University and they still can't fully fund the project and do it right and you people (great folks BTW) want to argue over a track being around the outside?!?!
> 
> Here is my issue - I am not having this football stadium conversation with you guys for the next 10 years, I will sell my naming rights to someone (SycamoreStateofMind for sale) before I have this bleeping conversation with you all again. It has been talked about and talked about on here and you all don't realize a stand alone facilitiy is not only not fisically responsible its never going to happen. And although I respect each and every one of the opinions expressed on here, I don't care if you got friggin Wrigley Field or Sanford Stadium or whatever, when the owner of SycamorePride the person who most represents Sycamore Nation says he aint buying season tickets if a track is around the outside of the football stadium I can tell you - the culture aint that real! People aint coming new stadium or not and thats the truth.
> 
> Love ya guys!! Just speaking from the heart - now time to be a non-active listener on this subject!



so regarding EIU's stadium... http://www.eiupanthers.com/custompa...tics Master Plan 2010-10-01_FINALprinting.pdf
check out page 33.  

2 things about a stadium.

1  We dont know what kind of stadium we will need or what level of football we will be playing in 5 years.

2  EIU is getting 7500 per game and that is with a 2nd rnd draft pick who people thought was the next coming of Jesus and being #2 in the country (according to voters who put zero minutes into their polls).  that is up from 5,xxx a couple years prior.  At the games I have been to there id say there are usually 3,500 after halftime regardless of the game so i see the same problems we have.

3 Regarding the current track.  Is there enough room for a Stadium there?  I thought there was at first but then after seeing it up close im not sure.  Keep in mind we may need more seating in the future.  

I may have more stuff but if I dont post this now it may sit here for 2 hours and I dont want your day to go without my opinion.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> Regarding the thought of do it right, or don't do it at all. That could keep us away from having a new stadium for years, and we don't have years at this point. Memorial Stadium needs to replaced in the next five years. The university can't keeping burying its head in the sand and pretending otherwise. A clear plan should be announced by the university and progress updates should be given regularly (say in the alumni magazine). Get something simple and affordable started, get it done now rather than later, and improve the facility in future years.



I think some of you are misconstruing the phrase. That would be doing it right and nobody would have a problem with them doing it in phases as long as the phases are seat expansion, if necessary. I'll point back to the post I made in the money thread and reference the Jerry Richardson Stadium that UNC Charlotte built in 2013 that seats 15k and they paid $40m for it. It is expandable to 40k. That is what I mean by doing it right. The core structure and bones have to be put in place in the initial build.

http://www.sycamorepride.com/showth...or-new-stadium&p=212640&viewfull=1#post212640

We're not getting a stadium in the next 5 years unless a big time donor wants to finance it. The school is at their bond limit with the track facility, residence hall and academic building projects going on. I believe they also went to the City looking for a tax increase (or something similar) and were turned away. So like I posted in that money thread as well, if I worked for the school, I'd start with a home grown effort first.

1) I know they've had plans drawn up by architects. The first step would be to decide if that is the plans they want or get additional plans done. 

2) Once the plans were done, I'd get several scale models created as well as marketing materials. I'd build out a room at the bookstore and/or student union that would display the model, marketing materials where students and alumni can come to view the proposed stadium, get info, etc. I'd also make sure there is a PROPERLY done website that would have all the info for it including pictures, a virtual tour, project details, giving options, etc.  

3) I'd reach out to the alumni and look for 5 year commitments for seed money -- I said $100 a month for 5 years. If we have 100k living alumni, I'd think you could easily get some of them to do this or more. People want tangible goals -- look at our jersey drive. Let's say you could get a 2.5% buy-in rate of your living alumni, that's $15,000,000 of the $40m. So now you only need $25m. 

4) I'd reach out to the student body and ask them to pass a student fee after the alumni donation goals have been met. Show them that the alumni care to see this done and by then, I'd imagine the student rec center fee will be off the books. Let's say a $100/year fee. At 14k students, that's $7m after 5, $14m after 10 years. North Texas, which I've referenced in a previous stadium discussion thread passed a $10 per credit hour student fee back in 2008. So let's just estimate this at $10,000,000. Now you need $15m. 

http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/101808aad.html

5) Now that you've got 60+% of it, you probably would go after your alumni whales and corporate contributors looking for big contributions. If you refer back to the UNC Charlotte Field, they were able to raise a significant portion of it from alumni for naming rights. What about Terre Haute First Field at Thompson Thrift Stadium? Naming rights for the field, stadium, luxury boxes, etc. I'd have to think you could get a majority of the remainder there, no?

6) After that, you go back to the City or State and get the remainder funded. I have no doubt they'd approve several million in bonds if ISU came to them stating they had raised 80-90% of the total cost privately. 

This above is without getting into the smaller naming items rights like bricks, training rooms, etc. Maybe all of this is too ambitious? Hell, I don't know but I do know that if some passionate fan came up with this on his lunch hour that it warrants investigating because there has to be others out there like him.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Page 1:



SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Thanks - done taking about attendance.
> 
> (note: not directed at anyone in here)



Page 6:



SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I've enjoyed this thread - been fun. But I'm done, my point has been made! This has been good stuff fellas, time for me to walk away from it.
> 
> Love ya guys!! Just speaking from the heart - now time to be a non-active listener on this subject!



Come on, someone say something so incendiary that SSOM just can't resist!  We can't have him leave the thread.  _Again_...:razz:

Just messin' with 'ya, Twitch...


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> I believe they also went to the City looking for a tax increase (or something similar) and were turned away. So like I posted in that money thread as well, if I worked for the school, I'd start with a home grown effort first.



I believe the city was on board, but the state turned it down.  The state is going to be the problem, always.  They really aren't going to approve much when it comes to ISU or Terre Haute if it's in their power to turn it down.


----------



## niklz62

You just cant quit the internet


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

Get rid of football and dump the money into the basketball and baseball programs! Baseball has had so much success in regards to putting players in the professional ranks with the worst facilities of the MVC....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> Come on, someone say something so incendiary that SSOM just can't resist!  We can't have him leave the thread.  _Again_...:razz:
> 
> Just messin' with 'ya, Twitch...



I think we should cut the track program and turn their new facility into a LARP arena for the the student live action role playing club.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> I believe the city was on board, but the state turned it down.  The state is going to be the problem, always.  They really aren't going to approve much when it comes to ISU or Terre Haute if it's in their power to turn it down.



I wonder what exactly was asked for? I honestly do think it would be different if they raise some of the funds. I think one of the reasons the track facility went through was because of the generous donation by Gibson and other track alumni.

Am I off my rocker on that idea though?


----------



## bent20

niklz62 said:


> so regarding EIU's stadium... http://www.eiupanthers.com/custompa...tics Master Plan 2010-10-01_FINALprinting.pdf
> check out page 33.
> 
> 2 things about a stadium.
> 
> 1  We dont know what kind of stadium we will need or what level of football we will be playing in 5 years.
> 
> 2  EIU is getting 7500 per game and that is with a 2nd rnd draft pick who people thought was the next coming of Jesus and being #2 in the country (according to voters who put zero minutes into their polls).  that is up from 5,xxx a couple years prior.  At the games I have been to there id say there are usually 3,500 after halftime regardless of the game so i see the same problems we have.
> 
> 3 Regarding the current track.  Is there enough room for a Stadium there?  I thought there was at first but then after seeing it up close im not sure.  Keep in mind we may need more seating in the future.
> 
> I may have more stuff but if I dont post this now it may sit here for 2 hours and I dont want your day to go without my opinion.



Eastern has a similar problem, too, though, in that they're up and down from one year to the next, no consistent tradition. They occasionally get the star  QB somehow, but doesn't do much good when they start the season after he leaves 1-5.

In this modern era, 5,000-10,000 for an FCS game in the midwest for two average schools is just gonna be the norm. You still have to have a new stadium at some point if the old one is falling down.


----------



## Bluethunder

Here is an honest question......

Without significant dollars being put into Memorial,  how many years would one estimate that it has left?

Another question that just popped in my head, could the school be waiting to see how all of the FBS/FCS football moves being made and ever changing landscape sorts out before committing to the program long term (and also committing to a long term stadium solution too?)


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bluethunder said:


> Here is an honest question......
> 
> Without significant dollars being put into Memorial,  how many years would one estimate that it has left?
> 
> Another question that just popped in my head, could the school be waiting to see how all of the FBS/FCS football moves being made and ever changing landscape sorted out before committing to the program long term (and also committing to a long term stadium solution too?)



The place is crumbling. Literally. 

As for the second part. It's certainly possible.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> The place is crumbling. Literally.
> 
> As for the second part. It's certainly possible.



Piggybacking on the long-term viability question...

I would argue if the Adminstration AND the Trustees were NOT following it, they need to be replaced.

I HOPE we have the revenue, resources, etc that allows us to KEEP football and build a new stadium.

I will understand if we are forced to shutter the program because of the future changes in the intercollegiate football dynamics.


----------



## bent20

I think there is some waiting going on and it makes sense to a point, but it's also a bit irresponsible. By waiting, you're already putting yourself behind the game. If there is a possibility that you can keep a football program and you wait, you're already at a disadvantage. If there is not, you wasted time and money keeping the program alive. Hopefully, ISU administrators have the info they need and the foresight to make plans now. I just wish they'd share more with us.


----------



## bent20

Regarding the history of Memorial Stadium, I forget what year the current stands were built. That wasn't the 1920s though, was it? Thought it was later. Maybe SycamoreSage can provide the answer.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> Regarding the history of Memorial Stadium, I forget what year the current stands were built. That wasn't the 1920s though, was it? Thought it was later. Maybe SycamoreSage can provide the answer.



Constructed in 1923-1924 by the City of Terre Haute to seat approximately 16,000 people, the facility's initial primary use was as 
the home of the Terre Haute Baseball Club, aka the Terre Haute Tots, a minor league team in the Three-I League; a Class B team.

Indiana State took possession in 1967.

Per GoSycamores.com...

Memorial Stadium was dedicated to the public for the first time on May 5, 1925, as the local minor league baseball team, the Terre Haute Tots, played the Peoria Tractors before an estimated crowd of 9,000. Among the honored guests were Major League Baseball Commissioner Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis and Charles Barnard of the Cleveland Indians.

The first use of the playing field was in the fall of 1924, when Wiley and Garfield High Schools played their traditional Thanksgiving Day game.

Original construction of Memorial Stadium began in 1922, at a cost of $450,000.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

http://www.gosycamores.com/fls/15200//statistics/alltimefbstats/1973.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=15200

Scroll down to the Memorial Stadium section. Stands were built in 1970. Phase 3 called for a duplicated grandstand on the other side which never happened.


----------



## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> http://www.gosycamores.com/fls/15200//statistics/alltimefbstats/1973.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=15200
> 
> Scroll down to the Memorial Stadium section. Stands were built in 1970. Phase 3 called for a duplicated grandstand on the other side which never happened.



Right, the old horseshoe-shaped stands with the arch were what was built in the 1920s, I think. And then you had the race track before that.


----------



## niklz62

In theory, I wonder if they could move that arch.

doesnt the city own the stadium?

Edit:  BTW Memorial Stadium played FG defense for us vs UNI 

MEMORIAL STADIUM SHOULD HAVE GOT THE GAME BALL


----------



## bent20

niklz62 said:


> In theory, I wonder if they could move that arch.
> 
> doesnt the city own the stadium?
> 
> Edit:  BTW Memorial Stadium played FG defense for us vs UNI
> 
> MEMORIAL STADIUM SHOULD HAVE GOT THE GAME BALL



I wouldn't move it. It's history is there. Once the stadium is gone, make it a park (find a new use for the new lockerrooms) and leave the arch as one really cool feature, assuming the city and/or university want to maintain it. Shouldn't take much, I wouldn't think.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> I think some of you are misconstruing the phrase. That would be doing it right and nobody would have a problem with them doing it in phases as long as the phases are seat expansion, if necessary. I'll point back to the post I made in the money thread and reference the Jerry Richardson Stadium that UNC Charlotte built in 2013 that seats 15k and they paid $40m for it. It is expandable to 40k. That is what I mean by doing it right. The core structure and bones have to be put in place in the initial build.
> 
> http://www.sycamorepride.com/showth...or-new-stadium&p=212640&viewfull=1#post212640
> 
> We're not getting a stadium in the next 5 years unless a big time donor wants to finance it. The school is at their bond limit with the track facility, residence hall and academic building projects going on. I believe they also went to the City looking for a tax increase (or something similar) and were turned away. So like I posted in that money thread as well, if I worked for the school, I'd start with a home grown effort first.
> 
> 1) I know they've had plans drawn up by architects. The first step would be to decide if that is the plans they want or get additional plans done.
> 
> 2) Once the plans were done, I'd get several scale models created as well as marketing materials. I'd build out a room at the bookstore and/or student union that would display the model, marketing materials where students and alumni can come to view the proposed stadium, get info, etc. I'd also make sure there is a PROPERLY done website that would have all the info for it including pictures, a virtual tour, project details, giving options, etc.
> 
> 3) I'd reach out to the alumni and look for 5 year commitments for seed money -- I said $100 a month for 5 years. If we have 100k living alumni, I'd think you could easily get some of them to do this or more. People want tangible goals -- look at our jersey drive. Let's say you could get a 2.5% buy-in rate of your living alumni, that's $15,000,000 of the $40m. So now you only need $25m.
> 
> 4) I'd reach out to the student body and ask them to pass a student fee after the alumni donation goals have been met. Show them that the alumni care to see this done and by then, I'd imagine the student rec center fee will be off the books. Let's say a $100/year fee. At 14k students, that's $7m after 5, $14m after 10 years. North Texas, which I've referenced in a previous stadium discussion thread passed a $10 per credit hour student fee back in 2008. So let's just estimate this at $10,000,000. Now you need $15m.
> 
> http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/101808aad.html
> 
> 5) Now that you've got 60+% of it, you probably would go after your alumni whales and corporate contributors looking for big contributions. If you refer back to the UNC Charlotte Field, they were able to raise a significant portion of it from alumni for naming rights. What about Terre Haute First Field at Thompson Thrift Stadium? Naming rights for the field, stadium, luxury boxes, etc. I'd have to think you could get a majority of the remainder there, no?
> 
> 6) After that, you go back to the City or State and get the remainder funded. I have no doubt they'd approve several million in bonds if ISU came to them stating they had raised 80-90% of the total cost privately.
> 
> This above is without getting into the smaller naming items rights like bricks, training rooms, etc. Maybe all of this is too ambitious? Hell, I don't know but I do know that if some passionate fan came up with this on his lunch hour that it warrants investigating because there has to be others out there like him.


That is good stuff... If I may kindly add...  reaching out to students can be done early on to let alumni know....  "hey, students are on board and want this to happen - let's try to lessen the student's burden...."  If the alumni and students are major donors they should have input on the design and facilities.   Just like the rec center.  People may want a sycamore patio in one end zone with Ricks bbq being served with a local old fav beer (champaign velvet) with restroom access on the patio so you can walk to the restroom and view the game at same time.  Suites located in the Sycamore Tree House.  Special section for the marching band, etc..... I digress...  first step is to get someone to take those steps you have listed and the stadium is reality.   That is factual.  There is someone out there thinking "I can do this."  Maybe someone knows somebody that is "built" for this task.  Don't be the person who wonders what could have been.  If anyone believes that it won't happen if those steps are followed appropriately - they have no isu school spirit or sense of business.  If a proper plan is set and adhered to it will most likely succeed.   Onward, someone, with The Student & Alumni Wabash Cannonball Stadium.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

southernindianaballer said:


> That is good stuff... If I may kindly add...  reaching out to students can be done early on to let alumni know....  "hey, students are on board and want this to happen - let's try to lessen the student's burden...."  If the alumni and students are major donors they should have input on the design and facilities.   Just like the rec center.  People may want a sycamore patio in one end zone with Ricks bbq being served with a local old fav beer (champaign velvet) with restroom access on the patio so you can walk to the restroom and view the game at same time.  Suites located in the Sycamore Tree House.  Special section for the marching band, etc..... I digress...  first step is to get someone to take those steps you have listed and the stadium is reality.   That is factual.  There is someone out there thinking "I can do this."  Maybe someone knows somebody that is "built" for this task.  Don't be the person who wonders what could have been.  If anyone believes that it won't happen if those steps are followed appropriately - they have no isu school spirit or sense of business.  If a proper plan is set and adhered to it will most likely succeed.   Onward, someone, with The Student & Alumni Wabash Cannonball Stadium.



What's wrong with the person in the mirror?


----------



## niklz62

This may not be the right thread, but is there much promotion on campus or throughout town?

I think they should have large posters of our stars and when the games are happening all over campus and in as many places as they can throughout town.  I think (and i dont know what the NCAA rules are).  Maybe they could advertise local athletes in each town.  Like maybe the Casey (cause thats where im from) could put up a large poster at a local business kind of like when they are pushing a player for the heisman only on a smaller scale.

I havent been on campus to know if this is done already but i doubt they are promo'ing the teams in their home towns.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

southernindianaballer said:


> That is good stuff... If I may kindly add...  reaching out to students can be done early on to let alumni know....  "hey, students are on board and want this to happen - let's try to lessen the student's burden...."  If the alumni and students are major donors they should have input on the design and facilities.   Just like the rec center.  People may want a sycamore patio in one end zone with Ricks bbq being served with a local old fav beer (champaign velvet) with restroom access on the patio so you can walk to the restroom and view the game at same time.  Suites located in the Sycamore Tree House.  Special section for the marching band, etc..... I digress...  first step is to get someone to take those steps you have listed and the stadium is reality.   That is factual.  There is someone out there thinking "I can do this."  Maybe someone knows somebody that is "built" for this task.  Don't be the person who wonders what could have been.  If anyone believes that it won't happen if those steps are followed appropriately - they have no isu school spirit or sense of business.  If a proper plan is set and adhered to it will most likely succeed.   Onward, someone, with The Student & Alumni Wabash Cannonball Stadium.





SycamoreFan317 said:


> What's wrong with the person in the mirror?



This isn't something that anyone outside of the school can do. This needs to be done through Dr. Bradley, Ron Prettyman and the Sycamore Athletic Foundation.


----------



## southernindianaballer

You guys should check out the iupui track and soccer stadium near the white river.  Google Indy and find iupui on the white river.  The ISU track and soccer will be superior with a better "field" area for field events.  This facility is nationally recognized as one of the best.  ISU will be surpass this facility.   Football stadium plan is the question mark.


----------



## xfactor9600

southernindianaballer said:


> You guys should check out the iupui track and soccer stadium near the white river.  Google Indy and find iupui on the white river.  The ISU track and soccer will be superior with a better "field" area for field events.  This facility is nationally recognized as one of the best.  ISU will be surpass this facility.   Football stadium plan is the question mark.



It's nationally recognized for a track facility. It is not for a soccer stadium. I have season tickets to the Indy Eleven, and I can tell you that having the track in between me and the pitch, takes away from the experience. Unless they've found a way to cover the track and install movable stands (which sounds $$$), I would think you will get that far away feeling no matter how nice the digs are.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

xfactor9600 said:


> It's nationally recognized for a track facility. It is not for a soccer stadium. I have season tickets to the Indy Eleven, and I can tell you that having the track in between me and the pitch, takes away from the experience. Unless they've found a way to cover the track and install movable stands (which sounds $$$), I would think you will get that far away feeling no matter how nice the digs are.



Exactly. When there is space between you and the field, you feel detached from the action.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Exactly. When there is space between you and the field, you feel detached from the action.



AND it adds the High School-like atmosphere


----------



## hans1950

How many lanes does a college track have? I've never felt that far away at a high school game.Just wondering.


----------



## ISUCC

hans1950 said:


> How many lanes does a college track have? I've never felt that far away at a high school game.Just wondering.



generally 8-9 lanes


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## Bluethunder

Between the cracks to the overall structure and facade to the upkeep on the grounds surrounding the stadium (and everything in between), I wonder what the ISU athletic department expects to have to budget for the stadium in the coming years, and I wonder how the total amount would compare to the cost of a new stadium.


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## IndyTreeFan

Bluethunder said:


> Between the cracks to the overall structure and facade to the upkeep on the grounds surrounding the stadium (and everything in between), I wonder what the ISU athletic department expects to have to budget for the stadium in the coming years, and I wonder how the total amount would compare to the cost of a new stadium.



And keep in mind, they must stay under a certain amount of renovation (not sure what that is), or they would have to bring the entire thing up to ADA standards.  And that would cost millions upon millions of dollars.  They really need to get rid of Memorial Stadium as quickly as possible.


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## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> And keep in mind, *they must stay under a certain amount of renovation (not sure what that is), or they would have to bring the entire thing up to ADA standards.  And that would cost millions upon millions of dollars.*  They really need to get rid of Memorial Stadium as quickly as possible.





What part of the ADA covers that statement?  Renovations?

http://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm


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## IndyTreeFan

4Q_iu said:


> What part of the ADA covers that statement?  Renovations?
> 
> http://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm



Gee, I don't know, maybe the sections dealing with "alterations."

A couple of sources:

http://www.facilitiesnet.com/ada/tip/ADA-Renovations-and-Requirements--22805

http://www.reesbroome.com/newsroom/biopubs/cunningham/11-07-01_ADA Compliance For Alterations.pdf

Making alterations to the public seating areas of Memorial Stadium would require a lot of money be spent to "remove barriers."  That's money that ISU doens't have, and should never spend on a crumbling dinosaur of a stadium.

There's _law_, and then there's the _regulations _that execute the law.


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## Bally #50

It took me longer than I thought to read thru all of these thoughts but I must admit that is one of the better threads I have seen. Is the stadium the problem is more complicated than I thought. The simple answer is YES. In 1968, when the stadium opened (along with seating for 7,000 on the north side), it was a no-frills concrete blob but it was new. The restrooms didn't have holes in the walls, the concession stands were far superior to the old ones and it offered so much more than before. It did have that first ever "outdoor" astro-turf field, and it was NEW! The stadium lights were magnificent and the early season night games were a hoot. The campus was far away but there were MORE students in dorms than there are now but the enrollments were similar. That is an important factor. By the fall of 1970, the beginning of my senior year, Memorial Stadium averaged almost 14,000 a game and drew 18,200 for the Homecoming game. A record that STILL stands. The times were different then. There was no cable, no satellite TV, no internet and 13 channels on your TV. You'd be lucky to be able to watch one football game on a Saturday, two at the most on your HOME TV. 5 male cheerleaders were added in 1970 to the squad, including a mike man (me) to keep the crowd hopping. My guess is that 5,000 students came to the games handled by a well run, efficient bus system. I agreed to be the "first" guy to get the ball rolling but told them I needed to be able to reserve 100 seats directly in front of me for my fraternity and we made that number EVERY game and usually 50 more than that amount with dates. 

Yes, the times WERE different then, but the stadium was NEW and it was the "it" thing to do. The team? We went 5-5. Winning was more common in my 4 years at ISU (26-13 during my 4 years) but nearly 14,000 for a 5-5 team was pretty damned impressive! As our football prowess began to diminish, almost every year in the 70's went down from those 1970 numbers. We made the playoffs a couple of times but continued our stigma of NOT winning the big game that counted. 

I have no idea when the north stands were torn down but I do know that they were CONDEMNED and deemed unsafe and the school un-wisely decided to shift 100% of the fans to the concrete side. THAT was the beginning of the end in my opinion. MS looked stupid. When I wasn't cheering in my days, I usually sat in the north stands so we could look at the large crowd on the other side (and there were less cops on that side until they caught on to us). seeing nothing on the other side looked bush league and I was VERY vocal about it as I was waist-deep in alumni activities at the time and I felt I would take it on as a mission. I didn't have any luck though. Then they put some dirt over there but it wasn't even "level" and that infuriated me and many others. Eventually, they enlarged the "Indian Mound" as I called it and they leveled it as well and that improved it's appearance. I was convinced that Chief Quabachi was buried in it. 

Then comes the 50+ game losing streak and the crowds dropped drastically. Strangely enough, my 48 year highlight in Memorial Stadium was the 17-14 WIN over Western Illinois to break the streak. When we won, I actually wept openly with my fraternity brother Don Millington who's son played 4 years to get that win. The Hoosier Dome games felt the best as a group of games with some big victories in there but that streak win was priceless.

We've had some good games in recent years and the crowds are on the rise, but the participation among the fans is declining. Student numbers are once again increasing too but any momentum we had in the recent years went south with last season's demise and more importantly the Shakir fiasco. In recent years, Ron Prettyman put enough money into the stadium to improve it enough that the experience was better (big screen, varsity club tent, new sound, new turf) and it amazed me he could even find the money to do that. It helped but everything else continues to decline. Then comes what SDJessie recently mentioned in this thread, many of us our getting up in age and the lack of level pavement, steps, handrails, metal bench seating is just not good for ISU's aging alumni base. I am also dealing with a balance issue and the last game I needed assist to get down the steps from the higher-than-normal seating we found that day. That's reality. We know the MS lights are a fricking joke. Those lights were replaced several years ago but I think the company should have been sued because the end product are the worst stadium lights I have ever seen. No night games also hurts. 

So there are PLENTY of reasons that people are not coming to Memorial Stadium. Unfortunately, no future stadium if ever built, will have the truly superb tailgating that the MS lot offers. That will be sad. Bottom line.....build it, they will come. Figuring out how to pay for it is obviously the tricky part. Jason's finance ideas are are a start. Find a way to start planning. Do a better job of wooing the alumni players. They have made HUGE gains there but I know it is not without some missing parts. We are likely a $10 million donation away from starting "Wabash Cannonball Stadium" as some of you are calling it. There are a lot more wealthier alumni out there than you think. Max Gibson certainly has come thru in recent years. (he's one of maybe 10 or more of my brothers who could come up with that kind of money). Keep improving the product and you never know who might come thru that door with a checkbook.

SSOM, as much as I love you (a slight exaggeration), a combined track and field AND a football stadium will cut the excitement in half. Did you take a close look at that Panther stadium? Building that would sicken my stomach. It just doesn't cut it. I agree with others that you deserve your own facility and as soccer grows, you both can get more stands that way.

I am over-winded as usual, but bottom line, once all the 1A, 1AA stuff is settled, then we need to figure out how we get this done. It won't be easy. Keep talking guys. This has been a fascinating discussion. I hope I don't stop it with all of my opinions.


----------



## mohoops247

Great post Bally!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bluestreak

Bally, you have a real talent for cutting through the bullshit. I get sick and tired of reading posts on here that "we never" had good crowds, we "NEVER"  were able to fill the stadium, and that ncludes some tweets by local sportscasters. Seems like some posters don't realize that there was a world before 1975. Thanks for the post Bally.


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## Syc70

Bally,

We are from the same time frame at ISU, graduated in 1970 and remember those years and crowds fondly.  Most people do not seem to remember the year before the new stadium was built, that the north temporaries were there in 1969 with the old curved part of the baseball stadium so most people sat on the "new side."  Your memories and perceptions pretty much mirror my ideas and thoughts.  It simply has to happen and sooner rather than later.  How is the $64,000 question.  Start a fund now with pledges, cash, promises, whatever, but get it started.  Appeal to eveyone, students, alumni, townies, future students, faculty, retirees, etc.  Leave no stone unturned.  Many alumni will make small donations, but small donations add up over time, start now.


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## Bally #50

Syc70 said:


> Bally,
> 
> We are from the same time frame at ISU, graduated in 1970 and remember those years and crowds fondly.  Most people do not seem to remember the year before the new stadium was built, that the north temporaries were there in 1969 with the old curved part of the baseball stadium so most people sat on the "new side."  Your memories and perceptions pretty much mirror my ideas and thoughts.  It simply has to happen and sooner rather than later.  How is the $64,000 question.  Start a fund now with pledges, cash, promises, whatever, but get it started.  Appeal to eveyone, students, alumni, townies, future students, faculty, retirees, etc.  Leave no stone unturned.  Many alumni will make small donations, but small donations add up over time, start now.



SYC70, I did some checking and you are correct that the north bleachers were there the last year the horseshoe portion (the old baseball stadium) was still standing. The outdoor astro-turf was actually installed at that time as well. I do know that the concrete permanent south bleachers opened officially against Northern Illinois (ISU 19-NIU 7) but that was 1968, not 1969. In the opening year of the stadium we went 9-1.

P.S. I forgot to mention in my original thread, during the record attendance of 1970, the Marching Sycamores were 250 strong (with Sparkettes and flag twirlers) and played at halftime for the Cincy Bengals, the Chicago Bears and the Detroit Lions. They kicked ass and definitely added to the atmosphere in those days.


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## Syc70

Right you are Bob, my mind played tricks on me again.  The band was tremendous and I remember the NFL Games well and if I remember correctly a great band rivalry with ISU and Ball State to outdo each other when the game was played bands traveled.  Great memories and maybe it can be that way again.


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## Bally #50

Syc, the ISU-BSU band rivalry REALLY heated up in the Hoosier Dome games. They might have won the series there but we kicked their asses in the battle of the bands EVERY time. In the last game, as I recall, BSU played first and they proudly introduced themselves as they always do, "The Pride of Mid-America." In a moment of knowing we would be better so why not have some fun so we announced ourselves as "The Pride of Boozer Field" which was the field immediately west of Rhoads Hall where the Syc's practiced every day. The much-larger ISU Dome crowd gave them a standing ovation and much laughter as we we kind of put it to them. AWESOME~ 

I've said it many times but if we can ever REALLY turn this football thing around, I would love to play at the LUC someday. Nice exchanging some memories with you SYC70. Btw, did you live in Frankfort when you went to ISU?


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## niklz62

Here's a couple tidbits and a little background.  I'm from casey il and played from 93-97(raetz's last year).  the last year of the north bleachers (if you are talking about the ones that were there then) was either 94 or 95. I though the hill was a good idea until I saw the size of it. Homecoming 1993, the infamous Raetz vs Harbaugh post game fight game, we had 9,500 fans. We had 2 wins at that point and Western KY was #19 in the country. We ran the score up on them which caused that fight.  In 1996 we played UNI for a share of the conference title in front of less than 3,000 or so after a 7-4 season in 95.

I think the AD and President before our current administration had a goal of dropping football and also weren't good at their jobs when it came to the athletic dept.  They pushed Raetz out and then hired his DC as head coach.  They then fired him and made the worst hire anywhere ever. I know for a fact, at least one coach who has been successful at the FCS level and now a fbs would have pushed over his grandmother to get the job. If you ever want to hear the story find me at a game. 
I feel like it took us a lot more than 5 years to get where we were and it will take a lot of people a long time of hard work to get to where we can get 10k to a game every now and again


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## ISU02

I've read through most of the post, and thought to offer me two cents.  I read often, but reply rarely.  Aside from Bally #47, most of the posts on this thread believe ISU exist in a vacuum where existential variables don't matter, but in reality that's not the case. ISU is a part of a larger community, and that community is Terre Haute.  I'm not saying this to be cute, because it's obvious to everyone, but therein lies one of the main obstacles to what everyone is getting at on this thread. Another main obstacle people are failing to understand is ISU’s role in Indiana’s college system.

But I digress, and this goes to what Bally has said about the 1970’s. The Terre Haute of 1970 was a completely different city than the Terre Haute of 2014.  Terre Haute itself is struggling to figure out how to deal with 40 years of decline, and ladies and gentleman, that's only part of the problem.

But getting back to the latter, I’ve read only one post that has made the comment about what the state is willing to allow ISU to do.  Herein lies one of many existential factors:  ISU is what the State of Indiana wants ISU to be.  And I’m sorry, but ISU can’t do anything without state approval, and ISU by design is limited on what it can and cannot do by the state because how it fits into a larger public university system.  Although, there are certainly exceptions, the state won’t allow or fund many academic initiatives that would cause redundancies in many lucrative degrees, i.e. Law, Medicine, Engineering, etc. 

How does this relate to Memorial Stadium?  It’s relative when it comes to wealthy alumni, and wealthy alumni funding pet projects.  And yes, ISU has wealthy alumnus, but does it have enough?

I digress again; I was excited to see recently that the Board of Trustees will be asking the state to allow ISU to start an architectural program of “technology.”  Although, I’m not familiar with the specifics, an architectural program would be a step in the right direction at expanding the wealthy alumni base, but starting any new program will take years before any real impact can be felt from its alumni, or if the state will allow ISU to even start the program with Ball State having one.

Terre Haute and its relation to ISU: 
First of all, Terre Haute is one of the least populated cities in the MVC.  This is a huge factor.  ISU isn’t the only university that struggles to get active students to attend athletic games.  I believe just a few weeks ago I read where Texas A.M.’s president was scolding students for not turning out to a huge game football game, and it isn't the first time where I read a BCS school is having issue with active students not attending game.   The point I’m trying to make is that alumni and general fans are far more important at filling seats than active students. And an university in a small city will naturally have less alumni or fans in general.

Secondly, aside from Indianapolis, Terre Haute is somewhat remote from other population centers.  I live in the Louisville Metro area, and for me to attend a game is a five hour commute two-ways.

There are a whole host of issues with Terre Haute’s relationship to ISU; too many to numerate on a single post, but people’s expectations on this forum needs to be more in-line with reality.  Only then can clear and achievable goals be met; otherwise, we’re all just wasting valuable time.  ISU’s athletic problems go far beyond Memorial Stadium’s current condition, and it has very little to do with why things are the way they are with attendance, but a mere reflection of a whole host of issues.


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## Syc70

Bally #47 said:


> Syc, the ISU-BSU band rivalry REALLY heated up in the Hoosier Dome games. They might have won the series there but we kicked their asses in the battle of the bands EVERY time. In the last game, as I recall, BSU played first and they proudly introduced themselves as they always do, "The Pride of Mid-America." In a moment of knowing we would be better so why not have some fun so we announced ourselves as "The Pride of Boozer Field" which was the field immediately west of Rhoads Hall where the Syc's practiced every day. The much-larger ISU Dome crowd gave them a standing ovation and much laughter as we we kind of put it to them. AWESOME~
> 
> I've said it many times but if we can ever REALLY turn this football thing around, I would love to play at the LUC someday. Nice exchanging some memories with you SYC70. Btw, did you live in Frankfort when you went to ISU?



No I did not, but have lived here for 40 years.  I think you must be thinking of Larry Lashbrook or Mick Gunyon.  I never met you but knew who you were but you would not have known me or who I was.  I love your insight and posts from the "old days."


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## southernindianaballer

Wow... Some really good posts lately.   My thoughts on reality and attainable goals.
First... please note....  I was planning on bringing my 82 year old father to the game last weekend but after further thought cancelled all my plans due to the fact he has a walker and is in assisted living....  planned on taking him to see the grandkids at the game....  I have a lot of respect for my father.. military veteran and such...  frankly, it's embarrassing that ISU and Indiana have allowed a state funded college's facilities to get in such poor condition that it is just too dangerous to attend activities in these facilities for the elderly.  Really.. it's sad....  but I want to make that point.
The plan that Jason posted will work.  It is only limited by effort and time.   I have learned a lot over the years..  many goals can be attainable if effort and planning are adhered to.  The new stadium (Wabash Cannonball?) is only limited by how hard our alumni groups and leaders want to work for it.  That is factual.  The money is out there....   What is reality?  I don't know?   How hard are we or our leaders willing to work?   I think Jason's plan could generate 50 million....  of course that's based on commitments over a few years.  But it is real money and real commitments....  enough to get started soon.   How long do we sit on it?  How long do we keep the state's elders away from campus activities due to failing and crumbling facilities?    They are the people who have paid their debt and then some.
I know the student's find the facility a bit embarrassing.   I heard a good point made about the percentage of students that are on campus vs commuters. ...  long ago many more lived on campus...  but the stadium was still miles away...  if the stadium is on campus that will offset the percentages that attend the games to a degree?   How much?   Not sure... but I would anticipate a healthy bump.
With Jason's idea we don't rely on that 10 million dollar man....   we just make it happen, which should be the cornerstone of ISU.   No reason to name excuses and say we have to wait for the big donor - that's not a plan - that's an excuse not to do something - maybe, just maybe ISU alumni foundation groups/leaders should be setting better examples, frankly.   Of course that donor is always welcome!   But a small percentage of decent donations is tangible - alumni and students see the need and want it... If they don't see it an average marketing person can make the case in 2 minutes.  The potential big donors would likely see the need and potential too.... done....  just my thoughts...  go trees!
And the stadium should be dedicated to football.. work harder for extra funding to support it!
The potential big donors need to know we need their help bad for this... so bad that if they can't help then our students and alumni as a group will take the burden and much, much work....  help us lessen the burden.


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## Bally #50

Syc70 said:


> No I did not, but have lived here for 40 years.  I think you must be thinking of Larry Lashbrook or Mick Gunyon.  I never met you but knew who you were but you would not have known me or who I was.  I love your insight and posts from the "old days."



You were reading my mind. I probably asked you that before. I know many ISU from there and one thing they all have in common, they are VERY funny and a little off-kilter as I call it.


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## Bally #50

southernindianaballer said:


> Wow... Some really good posts lately.   My thoughts on reality and attainable goals.
> First... please note....  I was planning on bringing my 82 year old father to the game last weekend but after further thought cancelled all my plans due to the fact he has a walker and is in assisted living....  planned on taking him to see the grandkids at the game....  I have a lot of respect for my father.. military veteran and such...  frankly, it's embarrassing that ISU and Indiana have allowed a state funded college's facilities to get in such poor condition that it is just too dangerous to attend activities in these facilities for the elderly.  Really.. it's sad....  but I want to make that point.
> The plan that Jason posted will work.  It is only limited by effort and time.   I have learned a lot over the years..  many goals can be attainable if effort and planning are adhered to.  The new stadium (Wabash Cannonball?) is only limited by how hard our alumni groups and leaders want to work for it.  That is factual.  The money is out there....   What is reality?  I don't know?   How hard are we or our leaders willing to work?   I think Jason's plan could generate 50 million....  of course that's based on commitments over a few years.  But it is real money and real commitments....  enough to get started soon.   How long do we sit on it?  How long do we keep the state's elders away from campus activities due to failing and crumbling facilities?    They are the people who have paid their debt and then some.
> I know the student's find the facility a bit embarrassing.   I heard a good point made about the percentage of students that are on campus vs commuters. ...  long ago many more lived on campus...  but the stadium was still miles away...  if the stadium is on campus that will offset the percentages that attend the games to a degree?   How much?   Not sure... but I would anticipate a healthy bump.
> With Jason's idea we don't rely on that 10 million dollar man....   we just make it happen, which should be the cornerstone of ISU.   No reason to name excuses and say we have to wait for the big donor - that's not a plan - that's an excuse not to do something - maybe, just maybe ISU alumni foundation groups/leaders should be setting better examples, frankly.   Of course that donor is always welcome!   But a small percentage of decent donations is tangible - alumni and students see the need and want it... If they don't see it an average marketing person can make the case in 2 minutes.  The potential big donors would likely see the need and potential too.... done....  just my thoughts...  go trees!
> And the stadium should be dedicated to football.. work harder for extra funding to support it!
> The potential big donors need to know we need their help bad for this... so bad that if they can't help then our students and alumni as a group will take the burden and much, much work....  help us lessen the burden.


You make some great points yourself. I think we underestimate greatly the wealth of our alumni. That is why the "sudden surge" that Indiana State is experiencing under Dr. Bradley's administration is so very important to me and to all of you. ISU is improving in so many ways that the changes are hard to count. As enrollment increases, many things happen. The "pool" of supporters increase, the funds from the state increases, the pride the students and alumni have increases, and all geometrically. I know all of you were upset that we drew 7600 at HC and I was too but I was MORE disappointed that once again, the forecasts sucked the entire week. After organizing my fraternity events for years, I can tell you that the forecast scared 25-35% away from coming in to town for the day. Who wants to come in from Evansville, Gary or Fort Wayne when the incorrect forecasts most were reading said rain. I knew it was going to be dry at the game, but most did not. My point, had it been beautiful outside, I am telling you we would have hit 10,000. Our tent city numbers (LXA) were down slightly but we had expected those extra 25% to be there. Fortunately we anticipated it and bought the right amount of food. One more point, we ALL know what that stadium feels like when it is 60° with clouds and a stiff breeze. You can freeze you ass off. Hopefully, if we do build a new stadium, we build it the right direction to protect it from the prevailing winds.

Had we reached 10,000, most of you would have a totally different attitude about the new stadium. Had we not screwed up the last two minutes of the game, you would have had a different attitude as well. As I said at the top here, we underestimate ourselves. I call it bad luck that the weather lined up the way it did, not total apathy. I was not bragging when I said I know 10 or so who could donate that kind of money. Those are close friends of mine, and I know many more that too, have been very successful in their business lives. As Jason so well defined, get fricking started on something to start the wheels turning. Find some heavy hitters that will match funds and get this thing rolling. Let people identify with THEIR stadium. As I said in my original thread, we need to wait until this 1A-1AA things settles in to whatever it is going to do. Then determine if that leaves enough for us to continue in football. It should but hell we don't know. Ball State is likely shaking in their boots because they have even more to lose if this big 5 thing goes thru. Figure out where WE stand and then do what Jason is talking about. By then, we will have a 1000 more students, and as I said, more pride in our university and there truly will be "More to Blue."

I know many of you are down on ISU but believe me, had it been sunny and 65° last Saturday, we would have had another 4K in the parking lot AND the stadium and you wouldn't feel so negative. Like the game itself, it could have been so much different with a few degrees more and some sun.


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## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> generally 8-9 lanes



And I believed they're 42 to 48 inches wide, correct? Then you have sideline/buffer after that before seats. Puts fans at least 50 feet father away from action.


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## Bally #50

Jason Svoboda said:


> And I believed they're 42 to 48 inches wide, correct? Then you have sideline/buffer after that before seats. Puts fans at least 50 feet father away from action.



Did you look at SSOM's link to EIU's proposal? It is even further away than that. You almost need binoc's to see the sideline on the NEAR side.


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## sdjessie

Just watching the ISU game on ESPN 3 ... comparing the Bisons Dome to Memorial Stadium ... and comparing the environment inside the dome including the dress of the students to the environment in Memorial Stadium  ... and ... there are no words to express my feelings ...


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## IndyTreeFan

sdjessie said:


> Just watching the ISU game on ESPN 3 ... comparing the Bisons Dome to Memorial Stadium ... and comparing the environment inside the dome including the dress of the students to the environment in Memorial Stadium  ... and ... there are no words to express my feelings ...



Yes, but ISU can't do anything like that.  We shouldn't even try.  Accept where we are as where we should always be, and don't strive for more.  Deal in reality, don't try to change reality.  A better facility at ISU ain't gonna happen.

There, that about covers it.


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## southernindianaballer

Bally #47 said:


> You make some great points yourself. I think we underestimate greatly the wealth of our alumni. That is why the "sudden surge" that Indiana State is experiencing under Dr. Bradley's administration is so very important to me and to all of you. ISU is improving in so many ways that the changes are hard to count. As enrollment increases, many things happen. The "pool" of supporters increase, the funds from the state increases, the pride the students and alumni have increases, and all geometrically. I know all of you were upset that we drew 7600 at HC and I was too but I was MORE disappointed that once again, the forecasts sucked the entire week. After organizing my fraternity events for years, I can tell you that the forecast scared 25-35% away from coming in to town for the day. Who wants to come in from Evansville, Gary or Fort Wayne when the incorrect forecasts most were reading said rain. I knew it was going to be dry at the game, but most did not. My point, had it been beautiful outside, I am telling you we would have hit 10,000. Our tent city numbers (LXA) were down slightly but we had expected those extra 25% to be there. Fortunately we anticipated it and bought the right amount of food. One more point, we ALL know what that stadium feels like when it is 60° with clouds and a stiff breeze. You can freeze you ass off. Hopefully, if we do build a new stadium, we build it the right direction to protect it from the prevailing winds.
> 
> Had we reached 10,000, most of you would have a totally different attitude about the new stadium. Had we not screwed up the last two minutes of the game, you would have had a different attitude as well. As I said at the top here, we underestimate ourselves. I call it bad luck that the weather lined up the way it did, not total apathy. I was not bragging when I said I know 10 or so who could donate that kind of money. Those are close friends of mine, and I know many more that too, have been very successful in their business lives. As Jason so well defined, get fricking started on something to start the wheels turning. Find some heavy hitters that will match funds and get this thing rolling. Let people identify with THEIR stadium. As I said in my original thread, we need to wait until this 1A-1AA things settles in to whatever it is going to do. Then determine if that leaves enough for us to continue in football. It should but hell we don't know. Ball State is likely shaking in their boots because they have even more to lose if this big 5 thing goes thru. Figure out where WE stand and then do what Jason is talking about. By then, we will have a 1000 more students, and as I said, more pride in our university and there truly will be "More to Blue."
> 
> I know many of you are down on ISU but believe me, had it been sunny and 65° last Saturday, we would have had another 4K in the parking lot AND the stadium and you wouldn't feel so negative. Like the game itself, it could have been so much different with a few degrees more and some sun.



Don't get me wrong.   Our current t leadership has made great and significant strides in education and facilities to date at ISU.  I am very pleased with what has and continues to happen....  In this case, they need to make the stadium priority.... the student's and alumni have been patient too long which is part of the culture issue.  I give our leadership kudos....  but let's have them put the bow tie on with this new football stadium and get it done right.


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## Bally #50

IndyTreeFan said:


> Yes, but ISU can't do anything like that.  We shouldn't even try.  Accept where we are as where we should always be, and don't strive for more.  Deal in reality, don't try to change reality.  *A better facility at ISU ain't gonna happen.*
> 
> There, that about covers it.


With that attitude, it wouldn't happen. I'd bet the farm that you're wrong (respectfully disagree).


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## IndyTreeFan

Bally #47 said:


> With that attitude, it wouldn't happen. I'd bet the farm that you're wrong (respectfully disagree).



I was merely restating the views of others in this thread.  I'm on your side...


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## Bally #50

IndyTreeFan said:


> I was merely restating the views of others in this thread.  I'm on your side...



Glad to hear that. As I have often said, "sarcasm" is hard to convey on here.


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## Bluethunder

sdjessie said:


> Just watching the ISU game on ESPN 3 ... comparing the Bisons Dome to Memorial Stadium ... and comparing the environment inside the dome including the dress of the students to the environment in Memorial Stadium  ... and ... there are no words to express my feelings ...



But you have to remember what (i think it was ISUCC) stated earlier, what the heck else are you going to do up in North Dakota?  No professional sports teams in the state, no other larger division I schools in the state, winters that last ten months and a team that wins.


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## shootingsycamore

Bally #47 said:


> Syc, the ISU-BSU band rivalry REALLY heated up in the Hoosier Dome games. They might have won the series there but we kicked their asses in the battle of the bands EVERY time. In the last game, as I recall, BSU played first and they proudly introduced themselves as they always do, "The Pride of Mid-America." In a moment of knowing we would be better so why not have some fun so we announced ourselves as "The Pride of Boozer Field" which was the field immediately west of Rhoads Hall where the Syc's practiced every day. The much-larger ISU Dome crowd gave them a standing ovation and much laughter as we we kind of put it to them. AWESOME~
> 
> I've said it many times but if we can ever REALLY turn this football thing around, I would love to play at the LUC someday. Nice exchanging some memories with you SYC70. Btw, did you live in Frankfort when you went to ISU?



Bally #47, I too remember the the ISU-BSU rivalry of the early 70's, great spirit and I remember when you formed the male cheer squad. Great experience. It would be wonderful to return to that level of attendance and enthusiasm. I commend the many Sycamore faithful who carry on and work very hard to achieve that goal.On an interesting side-note, spent the weekend in Tuscaloosa Alabama, 102,000 at the A&M game, 25,000 fans outside and over 800 tents on the quad and campus, most with satellite dishes and flat screen TV's. Probably 15,000 + students at the game. Nick Saban was on TV complaining about the poor student attendance and the fact that too many people were leaving at half time. Matter of perspective I suppose.


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## ISUCC

correct Blue, there is NOTHING else to do, that is why they have so much fan support, for all the dakota schools actually. Again, no pro teams, no other D-I teams, nothing, there is just nothing to do (sports related), and really anything related. Dakota territory fans may disagree but they're delusional. 



Bluethunder said:


> But you have to remember what (i think it was ISUCC) stated earlier, *what the heck else are you going to do up in North Dakota?  No professional sports teams in the state, no other larger division I schools in the state, winters that last ten months and a team that wins*.


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## quickdraw

Maybe we could use the money from our new oil wells :cheeky:

Found this on the Southern Illinois website on how they paid for upgrades:  http://www.siusalukis.com/facilities/facilities-stadium.html


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## niklz62

having been there, it looks nicer in person.  I really liked it 2 years ago


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## southernindianaballer

Come and listen to a story about a man named Dr B
A poor college pres, barely kept his family fed,*
Then one day he was shootin at some food,*
And up through the ground came a bubblin crude.*

Oil that is, black gold, The Dirty Tea.*

Well the first thing you know ol B's a millionaire,*
Students said "B, move our stadium away from here"*
Said "The Wabash River is the place you ought to be"*
So they loaded up the truck and moved to campus with the trees.

The river, that is. Swimmin holes, football stars.*

Well now its time to say good by to B and all his team.*
And they would like to thank you folks fer kindly droppin in.*
You're all invited back a gain to this locality*
To have a heapin helpin of their hospitality
Cannonball. ....  Sycamores...


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## southernindianaballer

According to the campus masterplan... if the plan for the new stadium is followed just half way - the tailgating area will be pretty kewl.  Tailgating along the Wabash River and around the stadium could be a real treat.  Alumni could take walks through campus on occasion too.  I assume the Hilton Garden and Candlewood have bball games and campus events locked up and are at full capacity most of the time...  I'm just thinking a hotel or two near the Wabash River would be profitable after the stadium is complete.


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## Sycamore Proud

southernindianaballer said:


> *According to the campus masterplan... if the plan for the new stadium is followed just half way *- the tailgating area will be pretty kewl.  Tailgating along the Wabash River and around the stadium could be a real treat.  Alumni could take walks through campus on occasion too.  I assume the Hilton Garden and Candlewood have bball games and campus events locked up and are at full capacity most of the time...  I'm just thinking a hotel or two near the Wabash River would be profitable after the stadium is complete.




Indiana State doesn't havethe best record of completint latter stages of such porjects.  We must remember that Dr. B. and RP are but mere mortals.  That said I really hope it gets totally finished and finished soon.


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## shootingsycamore

*Back in the day*



shootingsycamore said:


> Bally #47, I too remember the the ISU-BSU rivalry of the early 70's, great spirit and I remember when you formed the male cheer squad. Great experience. It would be wonderful to return to that level of attendance and enthusiasm. I commend the many Sycamore faithful who carry on and work very hard to achieve that goal.On an interesting side-note, spent the weekend in Tuscaloosa Alabama, 102,000 at the A&M game, 25,000 fans outside and over 800 tents on the quad and campus, most with satellite dishes and flat screen TV's. Probably 15,000 + students at the game. Nick Saban was on TV complaining about the poor student attendance and the fact that too many people were leaving at half time. Matter of perspective I suppose.



Bally 47, this isn't Frank Smith, The days in the RCA Dome were special and playing in Lucas Oil Stadium would be a boost for ISU in the  metro area. Over 1/3 of the living ISU alumni live within a 40 mile radius of Indianapolis. Any positive exposure would be welcome. It would also be a benefit to high school recruiting and alumni development.


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## southernindianaballer

Can't get this theme song out of my head...lol 
Come and listen to a story about a man named Dr B
A poor college pres, barely kept his family fed,*
Then one day he was shootin at some food,*
And up through the ground came a bubblin crude.*

Oil that is, black gold, The Dirty Tea.*

Well the first thing you know ol B's a millionaire,*
Students said "B, move our stadium away from here"*
Said "The Wabash River is the place you ought to be"*
So they loaded up the truck and moved to campus with the trees.

The river, that is. Swimmin holes, football stars.*

Well now its time to say good by to B and all his team.*
And they would like to thank you folks fer kindly droppin in.*
You're all invited back a gain to this locality*
To have a heapin helpin of their hospitality
Cannonball. .... Sycamores...


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## SycamoreFan317

shootingsycamore said:


> Bally 47, this isn't Frank Smith, The days in the RCA Dome were special and playing in Lucas Oil Stadium would be a boost for ISU in the  metro area. Over 1/3 of the living ISU alumni live within a 40 mile radius of Indianapolis. Any positive exposure would be welcome. It would also be a benefit to high school recruiting and alumni development.



Just how many living alumni do we have?


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreFan317 said:


> Just how many living alumni do we have?


Good question. I don't know the actual number, but I was doing my weekly LinkedIn approvals this morning and it shows 33,000+ students/alumni having attended Indiana State. Here is a screengrab:






If anyone wants to add me on LinkedIn, here is my profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonsvoboda/


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## mohoops247

Saluki Stadium. That's what we need. Yes, it's all aluminum, but it is nice. I really like it. Great concourse under stadium. Cool modern looking press box. Enclosed on 3 sides with grass berm on one end. And only 27.4 million according to Wikipedia. Surely we can pull that off. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## southernindianaballer

SycamoreFan317 said:


> Just how many living alumni do we have?



The ISU alumni association site says we have about 100,000.   Most college review and ranking sites say 100,000.  I would assume that is fairly accurate.


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## bent20

southernindianaballer said:


> The ISU alumni association site says we have about 100,000.   Most college review and ranking sites say 100,000.  I would assume that is fairly accurate.



All we need to do is get every single one of them to donate $200-$300 for a new stadium and we'll be all set. Simple. I'm sure they'd all do it, no questions asked.:no:


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## southernindianaballer

mohoops247 said:


> Saluki Stadium. That's what we need. Yes, it's all aluminum, but it is nice. I really like it. Great concourse under stadium. Cool modern looking press box. Enclosed on 3 sides with grass berm on one end. And only 27.4 million according to Wikipedia. Surely we can pull that off.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I don't make the decisions... lol.  But I would be ok with a similar stadium.   I would make the capacity a bit more and add a patio above the endzone seating with restrooms, food court, alumni association booth, beer stand, isu memorabilia sales.  I think 20k is the sweet spot.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


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## southernindianaballer

bent20 said:


> All we need to do is get every single one of them to donate $200-$300 for a new stadium and we'll be all set. Simple. I'm sure they'd all do it, no questions asked.:no:



You are a funny guy... lol....  it's about targeting the right audience.


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## bent20

Get the 5,000 who attend games now to donate $4,000 each and you can afford a $20M stadium. Seeing as how some of them don't even pay for a ticket though that might not be easy. If a smaller group of big money donors can be found, that would be great. School is going to need to commit to the team's future and have a plan though before people are going to offer big donations, and even then it might not be easy.


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## shootingsycamore

southernindianaballer said:


> The ISU alumni association site says we have about 100,000.   Most college review and ranking sites say 100,000.  I would assume that is fairly accurate.



There are 100,000 living alumni. 55% live within a 150 mile radius of Terre Haute. Of the 100,000 over 1/3 live within 40 miles of Indianapolis. Isn't the Alumni Association doing a wonderful job at cultivating the alumni in Indianapolis.


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## IndyTreeFan

shootingsycamore said:


> There are 100,000 living alumni. 55% live within a 150 mile radius of Terre Haute. Of the 100,000 over 1/3 live within 40 miles of Indianapolis. Isn't the Alumni Association doing a wonderful job at cultivating the alumni in Indianapolis.



The Alumni Association doesn't do a wonderful job cultivating anything.  They're right up there with the Foundation on the list of "World's Most Ineffective Organizations."


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## shootingsycamore

IndyTreeFan said:


> The Alumni Association doesn't do a wonderful job cultivating anything.  They're right up there with the Foundation on the list of "World's Most Ineffective Organizations."



Unfortunately, by inaction and no apparent plan to proceed, ISU and the Alumni Association has lost vital time and in the future treasure. Inaction over the past few years will set the institution back a generation, rendering any future capital campaign a difficult task. One or two years of successful athletic achievement doesn't warrant a 7 figure lead gift for a new stadium. Philanthropy has never been a cultivated art at ISU.


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## Bally #50

shootingsycamore said:


> Unfortunately, by inaction and no apparent plan to proceed, ISU and the Alumni Association has lost vital time and in the future treasure. Inaction over the past few years will set the institution back a generation, rendering any future capital campaign a difficult task. One or two years of successful athletic achievement doesn't warrant a 7 figure lead gift for a new stadium. Philanthropy has never been a cultivated art at ISU.



I figured your initial statement had a heavy dosage of sarcasm in the middle of it all, SS. *(Isn't the Alumni Association doing a wonderful job at cultivating the alumni in Indianapolis).* There is certainly a ton of room for improvement in many things "alumni" and "foundation" and it is unfortunate because, at least in my mind, MANY things at Indiana State are on an upswing. Because of my closeness to that subject for several decades, I think I will take a pass on that subject and leave the discussions for you guys.


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## shootingsycamore

Bally #47 said:


> I figured your initial statement had a heavy dosage of sarcasm in the middle of it all, SS. *(Isn't the Alumni Association doing a wonderful job at cultivating the alumni in Indianapolis).* There is certainly a ton of room for improvement in many things "alumni" and "foundation" and it is unfortunate because, at least in my mind, MANY things at Indiana State are on an upswing. Because of my closeness to that subject for several decades, I think I will take a pass on that subject and leave the discussions for you guys.



The more exposure the institution has the easier the Friendraising and Fundraising is for 
the Foundation.


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## Bally #50

shootingsycamore said:


> The more exposure the institution has the easier the Friendraising and Fundraising is for
> the Foundation.



Exactly what I said on my first post in this thread. It SHOULD be getting easier but.....?


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## Sycamore Proud

I am certain that there are many of the people being discussed believe that the Foundation and Alumni Association are one and the same.  Many years ago I wrote the AA asking about materials and membership.  I heard nothing from them.  After 2 weeks of hearing nothing I called and asked for materials.  You guessed--nothing.  Hopefully I am the only one it this situation, but I wonder. .  I still have not heared from them.  It wouldn't make a difference if I did aat this point.  It's mo many things like thes--some small, others large--that are associated with ISU.  Why???  If people like us, who bleed blue and white, get frustrated with issues like tis, how do you think others well?


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## IndyTreeFan

Sycamore Proud said:


> I a certain that there are many of the people being discussed believe that the Foundation and Alumni Association are one and the same.  Many years ago I wrote the AA asking about materials and membership.  I heard nothing from them.  After 2 weeks of hearing nothing I called and asked for materials.  You guessed--nothing.  Hopefully I am the only one it this situation, but I wonder. .  I still have not heared from them.  It wouldn't make a difference if I did aat this point.  It's mo many things like thes--some small, others large--that are associated with ISU.  Why???  If people like us, who bleed blue and white, get frustrated with issues like tis, how do you think others well?



I hope that if people from the Alumni Association and the Foundation read this board they realize that _we_ are ISU's base.  If we're having troubles like this, it is assured that other people are, too.  Stop figuring that everyone here is just a bunch of crusty old farts and realize that there are issues with both organizations that need to be addressed.  We bring them up here in the hopes that something will change.  Unfortunately, typically where ISU is concerned, nothing ever changes.

So, those of you ISU people reading this, please hear us out.  We are not just a bunch of cranks.  We are ISU's most devoted, passionate alumni and fans.  If you don't listen to what we say and realize that there are problems with certain areas, then you're not really interested in creating change.  And that makes those of here very sad.

Why not surprise us for a change?


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## Jason Svoboda

shootingsycamore said:


> There are 100,000 living alumni. 55% live within a 150 mile radius of Terre Haute. Of the 100,000 over 1/3 live within 40 miles of Indianapolis. Isn't the Alumni Association doing a wonderful job at cultivating the alumni in Indianapolis.


Pretty impressive that 33,000 of them are on LinkedIn.


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## shootingsycamore

Jason Svoboda said:


> Pretty impressive that 33,000 of them are on LinkedIn.



In that case if they all show up to the next Alumni reception, they'll need Lucas Oil Stadium


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## southernindianaballer

Get a win today Trees!


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## IndyTreeFan

Just thought that I could now answer my own question.  YES!  Memorial Stadium was definitely a problem today.  We really need ISU to start the process to get rid of that dump.


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## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> I hope that if people from the Alumni Association and the Foundation read this board they realize that _we_ are ISU's base.  If we're having troubles like this, it is assured that other people are, too.  Stop figuring that everyone here is just a bunch of crusty old farts and realize that there are issues with both organizations that need to be addressed.  We bring them up here in the hopes that something will change.  Unfortunately, typically where ISU is concerned, nothing ever changes.
> 
> So, those of you ISU people reading this, please hear us out.  We are not just a bunch of cranks.  We are ISU's most devoted, passionate alumni and fans.  If you don't listen to what we say and realize that there are problems with certain areas, then you're not really interested in creating change.  And that makes those of here very sad.
> 
> Why not surprise us for a change?


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## SycamoreStateofMind




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## blueblazer

SycamoreStateofMind said:


>


I was just getting ready to post those.......great pixes


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## treeman

well according to those pictures memorial stadium is NOT the problem. i kid i kid. 

i've never actually seen photos of the baseball field and had no idea it was that big. Now i would have loved to go to sporting events back in the day when it was THE thing to do. Great pictures


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## niklz62

didnt they get 18000 to football games?


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## IndyTreeFan

Oh my, they had better lights in the 1920's than we have today!!!  :shocked2:


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## WOZ

niklz62 said:


> didnt they get 18000 to football games?



Not in the old horseshoe stadium. We did get crowds in the 18,000 range when the field was reoriented (East to West) and the new (current) seating section was built along with the seating on the North side of the field.
By the way, in the old photo showing the large crowd at a baseball game, the fans in the forefront with their backs to the camera are sitting in the seats designated as the "home" side of the football field.  The field ran North to South.  Home plate was just beyond the South end zone. And, they had to stack bales of hay in front of the 3rd base dugout to prevent any players from falling in.


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## WOZ

I know the master plan shows a football stadium across the street (immediately East ) from the new track under construction.
Has this tract of land already been purchased?


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## southernindianaballer

WOZ said:


> I know the master plan shows a football stadium across the street (immediately East ) from the new track under construction.
> Has this tract of land already been purchased?



Understand your question.  Last time I looked there was a "for sale" sign on that property for some reason.


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## WOZ

southernindianaballer said:


> Understand your question.  Last time I looked there was a "for sale" sign on that property for some reason.



If, and when, we become that property owner, it might be a good idea to clear the land and plant some grass to make the site more presentable.
Then put up a nice sign declaring it as the future location for our new football stadium!  At that point, all we are doing is some "wishful" thinking without making any commitments.  So what if we raise questions and curiosity. We keep the fires burning!
And, when we have recruits visiting, we take them by the site and show them the close proximity to campus, the new track etc etc.
Eventually, whenever we do make the commitment to build a new stadium, we replace the sign with a larger one with an artist's rendition and bedazzle the hell out of everyone who drives by.
Finally, I think we need to stop asking our administration WHEN the new stadium is going to be built.  We need to TELL them we WANT a new stadium. They need to hear this loud and clear and often. They need a shove and so does the city of TH. We need everyone to buy in and make this happen sooner than later.  The time is here!


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## rapala

*Old stadium lights*

Not really.  In the early 60's Iwas coaching at Honey Creek High School, we played the county games there.  As an assistant,my job was to be on the roof to watch game.  In today's terms, I was in the booth. Ha ha. You had trouble seeing and radio we used interfered with police radios.


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## Gotta Hav

rapala said:


> Not really.  In the early 60's Iwas coaching at Honey Creek High School, we played the county games there.  As an assistant,my job was to be on the roof to watch game.  In today's terms, I was in the booth. Ha ha. You had trouble seeing and radio we used interfered with police radios.



Honey Creek High School had a football team in the 60's? Did they have one in the early 70's too, before THS was created?

What conference were they in?  It certainly wasn't in the WIC with West Vigo, Brazil, Schulte, Gerstmeyer, Clinton, Garfield, Sullivan and Wiley.

My Freshman year of High School in Sullivan, IN was 1967-1968.....I have three other brothers, and we all played Football at Sullivan HS.  

I certainly remember playing Terre Haute schools Gerstmeyer, Wiley, Schulte and Garfield, but never Honey Creek....as matter of fact I remember dressing (didn't start) the last game Wiley ever played Sullivan at Memorial Stadium in the 68/69 school year.

In following 69-70 school year, I played against Garfield, and it was Garfields last year to play Sullivan at Memorial Stadium...or Garfields next to last year  for Football.  In 70/71 THS and THN came into existence.

I wish Sullivan had scheduled Honey Creek HS in Football back-in-the-day, that would have been fun, or like playing Dugger....a guaranteed win.


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## hans1950

Honey Creek as in the WIC with all the schools you mentioned plus Linton.and Greencastle.Pete Varda was the coach until 1970.Mike Blackwell was a great running back who graduated in 1967 and played at ISU I believe.


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## bluestreak

Yep, Honey Creek was in the WIC. Another player for HC was Walt Keegan, I think he only played his senior year, but was tough as nails. Walt was a big partier as I remember.... HC usually had a tough time competing with the other WIC teams at that time. Demographics have changed dramatically since then of course, there simply wasn't a lot of kids in the district, HC was the smallest school in the VCSC.

When I was at Wiley the conference consisted of;
Wiley, Gerstmeyer, Garfield, State Lab (no football team), Linton, Clinton, Sullivan, Honey Creek, Schulte and West Vigo

Generally every school played each other every year with sometimes an additional nonconference game. Wiley usually played Vincennes Lincoln, but in 68 played Alton Illinois (I think) and in 69 an Indianapolis team.(Marshall? had a running back named Johnny Tremaine that was pretty good)

Sorry, excuse this OF rambling.


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## Gotta Hav

hans1950 said:


> Honey *Creek as in the WIC* with all the schools you mentioned plus Linton.and Greencastle.Pete Varda was the coach until 1970.Mike Blackwell was a great running back who graduated in 1967 and played at ISU I believe.



Yes, like you and Bluestreak said, HC was in the WIC.  I was just making a point.  That is,  HC, never had a Football team.

HC may have had a Tennis and Tiddly-Winks Team, and I know they had a basketball team, especially when the Uhl brothers played, specifically Mark Uhl.  Here was a guy, at 5' 7" who was pasty white, and frail looking.... but who could pass, dribble, head fake and shoot with the best of them....a real competitor.

And good point, I failed to mention Linton and Greencastle were also in the WIC.   And it is especially hard to forget Linton, considering how bad Linton wal back then.

When I was a Junior, we beat Linton 60 - 0, and as a Senior, we beat Linton 24 - 0.  Linton was pathetic in Football in the WIC for decades....to know that they have had a lot of great success recently in Football, is hard to comprehend.....

To keep these posts on topic....I'm sure Linton also playde games in old Memorial Stadiums too.


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## Gotta Hav

Ha.  I found this on the internet about Honey Creek Halfback, Mike Blackwell.   

Scroll to the very bottom and find a tab called OCR Text.  It has its own scroll bar on the right.   In the article, it talks about HC's Mike Blackwell.

http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~docbratt/petevarda.htm

Here's a link to the 1967 North South All Star team, and Honey Creeks - Mike Blackwell....  http://www.ihigh.com/school25668/custompage_6895.html

Geez, funny how we remember things....I just don't remember HC Football, or any of this....good thing Rapala has a sharper mind than mine!

I guess it was good thing Sullivan didn't play HC, especially during the Blackwell years!!!   

I've called to two other Old Farts from Sullivan back then, and they dodn't remember HC Football either....but the records definitely say something different.

Go Bees!!!

WIC Football scheduling back was a little strange back then...especially like the very few times we played Greencastle....as OFC people can remember, travel from a Sullivan location to Greencastle location was a journey.


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## southernindianaballer

Need a stadium.   LOL


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