# FIRE GREG LANSING



## HOOPSFAN

here we go .......................... post your thoughts


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## Buckhorn

Are you going to invite all the members of GL's "Honor Guard," who surround him w/ fixed bayonets after another loss?


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## Jason Svoboda

https://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?39436-Lansing-Contract-Situation

Lansing has one year remaining on his deal at roughly $258,000. My guess is it is a bit higher since my original post back in 2017 due to cost of living increases that employees get yearly. Clink's phone number is 812-237-4092. I believe if you call him and tell him you will cut a check for that amount, he may be likely to grant your wish. 

My suggestion is you make your donation around $500,000 so we can up the salary pool for the next head coach search. That way, they can attract a bigger pool of candidates for the job and perhaps land someone more to your liking.


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## Buckhorn

Why would anyone even propose the idea of firing "The Great" GL? Beyond comprehension, isn't it. While throwing out "costs," perhaps you can examine the ancillary impact which his five (5) losing seasons have had upon various other "sectors" of University and TH in general. Don't forget to calculate MORALE and its debilitating impact upon success & motivation.


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## Jason Svoboda

Buckhorn said:


> Why would anyone even propose the idea of firing "The Great" GL? Beyond comprehension, isn't it. While throwing out "costs," perhaps you can examine the ancillary impact which his five (5) losing seasons have had upon various other "sectors" of University and TH in general. Don't forget to calculate MORALE and its debilitating impact upon success & motivation.



You're being disingenuous. Many people have proposed the idea of moving on from Lansing but when they consider the extenuating circumstances, they understand why it has largely been a non-starter in a cash strapped athletics department and University. 

If you've done that analysis you speak of, I'd be glad to read through it. Feel free to post it.


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## Buckhorn

Jason Svoboda said:


> You're being disingenuous. Many people have proposed the idea of moving on from Lansing but when they consider the extenuating circumstances, they understand why it has largely been a non-starter in a cash strapped athletics department and University.
> 
> If you've done that analysis you speak of, I'd be glad to read through it. Feel free to post it.



There are numerous tactics & methods used by administrators to "encourage" a resignation. How many of these have been used in GL's case? Does ISU not have a legal team experienced in these areas? Perhaps the problem lies more w/ the working (?) dynamics of TH & the University, where TH is simply too "small time" to use such strategies?

Btw, who in their right mind after witnessing former ISU A.D. RON PRETTYMAN ink GL to a 5-yr. "rollover" contract (w/GL's wife by his side) could TRUST $500,000 in the hands of ANYONE at ISU? Absurd.


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## Jason Svoboda

Buckhorn said:


> There are numerous tactics & methods used by administrators to "encourage" a resignation. How many of these have been used in GL's case? Does ISU not have a legal team experienced in these areas? Perhaps the problem lies more w/ the working (?) dynamics of TH & the University, where TH is simply too "small time" to use such strategies?
> 
> Btw, who in their right mind after witnessing former ISU A.D. RON PRETTYMAN ink GL to a 5-yr. "rollover" contract (w/GL's wife by his side) could TRUST $500,000 in the hands of ANYONE at ISU? Absurd.



There is a lot of circular logic in there. Some of it may have some credence, some of it may not. Neither you nor I work for the University so we don't know any of the extenuating circumstances, staff capabilities, etc. The bottom line is you've just spun right back around and are standing in the same spot -- he has one year remaining on his contract after this year and our school is broke. Those are the only publicly known and verifiable variables.

Unless you change those, the situation remains the same.


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## niklz62

I don’t get the spouse thing. Was she also married to Mike Sanford?


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## HOOPSFAN

Five years FIVE YEARS of having a losing record and with the University being handcuffed by a contract that was automatically extended each year no matter how he performed has been totally ridiculous. How many people perform below standard that long and do not get fired? He has sold his partnership in Dunkin Donuts and is preparing to move on. He just needs to be shown the door. Surely an alum with lots of $$$$ can ante up enough to cover a settlement before another season? 
He probably won't be looking to draw unemployment benefits as he did marry well so they won't starve.


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## HOOPSFAN

Jason Svoboda said:


> https://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?39436-Lansing-Contract-Situation
> 
> Lansing has one year remaining on his deal at roughly $258,000. My guess is it is a bit higher since my original post back in 2017 due to cost of living increases that employees get yearly. Clink's phone number is 812-237-4092. I believe if you call him and tell him you will cut a check for that amount, he may be likely to grant your wish.
> 
> My suggestion is you make your donation around $500,000 so we can up the salary pool for the next head coach search. That way, they can attract a bigger pool of candidates for the job and perhaps land someone more to your liking.



So I take it you are willing to endure losing basketball at ISU and not hold the coach accountable?


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## TreeTop

HOOPSFAN said:


> here we go .......................... post your thoughts


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## Jason Svoboda

HOOPSFAN said:


> Five years FIVE YEARS of having a losing record and with the University being handcuffed by a contract that was automatically extended each year no matter how he performed has been totally ridiculous. How many people perform below standard that long and do not get fired? He has sold his partnership in Dunkin Donuts and is preparing to move on. He just needs to be shown the door. Surely an alum with lots of $$$$ can ante up enough to cover a settlement before another season?
> He probably won't be looking to draw unemployment benefits as he did marry well so they won't starve.





HOOPSFAN said:


> So I take it you are willing to endure losing basketball at ISU and not hold the coach accountable?



To your second post, that is quite the conclusion to jump to. I simply responded to your premise with the known facts on the table. 

To your first post, that is really cherry. You want action, but you want someone else to foot the bill. If there was an alum with money to burn that cared about the school or basketball program and wanted Lansing gone, don't you think they would have already come forward? It happens at other schools on a yearly basis, usually the high majors but it does happen at the mid-major level occasionally. So what logical conclusions can we derive from that? 

1) We do not have any wealthy alumni. We all know this isn't the case.
2) We do not have any wealthy alumni that care that deeply about the basketball program.
3) We have wealthy alumni that care but they do not care deeply about the basketball program and/or they do not believe it is good spend to oust a coach that has a career record about .500 knowing all of the financial and geopolitical constraints the school has.
4) We have wealthy alumni that care but they support Coach Lansing.

Twitch has mentioned it before, but I'll just reiterate it. If you look at the school and Sycamore Athletic Foundation donor rolls, the majority of the large donors are friends with Lansing. Lansing has forged personal relationships with these people for almost two decades. If you were in Athletic Director and wanted to make a change, knew the buy out number you had to hit, and had a list of the top donors, don't you think he would have made the inquiries to get their opinions and gauge interest on the matter?

If not, now you need a new Athletics Director on top of it, right?


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## HOOPSFAN

Jason Svoboda said:


> To your second post, that is quite the conclusion to jump to. I simply responded to your premise with the known facts on the table.
> 
> To your first post, that is really cherry. You want action, but you want someone else to foot the bill. If there was an alum with money to burn that cared about the school or basketball program and wanted Lansing gone, don't you think they would have already come forward? It happens at other schools on a yearly basis, usually the high majors but it does happen at the mid-major level occasionally. So what logical conclusions can we derive from that?
> 
> 1) We do not have any wealthy alumni. We all know this isn't the case.
> 2) We do not have any wealthy alumni that care that deeply about the basketball program.
> 3) We have wealthy alumni that care but they do not care deeply about the basketball program and/or they do not believe it is good spend to oust a coach that has a career record about .500 knowing all of the financial and geopolitical constraints the school has.
> 4) We have wealthy alumni that care but they support Coach Lansing.
> 
> Twitch has mentioned it before, but I'll just reiterate it. If you look at the school and Sycamore Athletic Foundation donor rolls, the majority of the large donors are friends with Lansing. Lansing has forged personal relationships with these people for almost two decades. If you were in Athletic Director and wanted to make a change, knew the buy out number you had to hit, and had a list of the top donors, don't you think he would have made the inquiries to get their opinions and gauge interest on the matter?
> 
> If not, now you need a new Athletics Director on top of it, right?



That is a thought! Might be a race to see who goes out the door first? AD's have been fired before for the inability to see changes needed and fail to make them. Basketball is still the flagship program for all Indiana schools except Notre Dame I believe. With the new convention center & the casino coming on soon having a winning basketball team to follow would be nice. My hope is that the ISU President gets tired of seeing & hearing about the major sport athletic failures & puts her two cents in the mix.


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## IndyTreeFan

HOOPSFAN said:


> My hope is that the ISU President gets tired of seeing & hearing about the major sport athletic failures & puts her two cents in the mix.



Be careful what you wish for.  This would NOT be a good thing...


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## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> Be careful what you wish for.  This would NOT be a good thing...





Based on...

Kurt Thomas was just singing her praises...

https://www.tribstar.com/news/isu-t...cle_0528f6d8-3186-11ea-852e-d3109e8c4e0d.html


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## Buckhorn

niklz62 said:


> I don’t get the spouse thing. Was she also married to Mike Sanford?



Did Sanford ink a 5-yr rollover following his 2nd losing season in a row?


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## Jason Svoboda

Buckhorn said:


> Did Sanford ink a 5-yr rollover following his 2nd losing season in a row?



I believe Miles got one in 2011, didn't he? Prettyman took care of both coaches.


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## WOZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> You're being disingenuous. Many people have proposed the idea of moving on from Lansing but when they consider the extenuating circumstances, they understand why it has largely been a non-starter in a cash strapped athletics department and University.
> 
> If you've done that analysis you speak of, I'd be glad to read through it. Feel free to post it.



So why are we so cash strapped?
Could it be that Administraton after Administration has paid more attention to diversity than higher admission standards?
Where has the focus on diversity got us?  Our graduation rates are shameful!  Our endowment is laughable.
Our enrollment is down.

The main reason we are emphasizing diversity is that it is a quick and easy fix to slumping enrollments.
That way they can collect those student fees that our athletic dept. desperately needs.
It is not a viable solution to long term financial improvement.  

We need thousands of more alums like us guys.
Not what ISU is currently failing to produce!


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## meistro

This thread, at this time of year is asinine and does nothing but harm to the program. I will not be a part of it.


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## 4Q_iu

WOZ said:


> So why are we so cash strapped?
> Could it be that Administraton after Administration has paid more attention to diversity than higher admission standards?
> Where has the focus on diversity got us?  Our graduation rates are shameful!  Our endowment is laughable.
> Our enrollment is down.
> 
> The main reason we are emphasizing diversity is that it is a quick and easy fix to slumping enrollments.
> That way they can collect those student fees that our athletic dept. desperately needs.
> It is not a viable solution to long term financial improvement.
> 
> We need thousands of more alums like us guys.
> Not what ISU is currently failing to produce!




I think diversity is pretty far down the list for "factors that have kept cash from ISU"


ISU's largest student population was at the height of the Viet Nam War... why?  Because a student deferment kept a guy's narrow ass out of a rice paddy.

The draft ends in 1973; student enrollment drops as a result; plus in 1973, a young married couple could raise a family on a solid; skilled/semi-skilled, working class union/non-union job.  No need to pursue a BS, if I can get a good job as a machinist, welder, plumber, etc

Do those scenarios exist today??


The majority of ISU students continue to be first generation college students; they continue to be Pell Grant eligible; they continue to be native Hoosiers and REMAIN in Indiana after they graduate.

Universities EXIST to educate; to "move forward" the people from generation to the next.

Universities DO NOT exist to provide a "cover" for an athletic program.


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## bent20

meistro said:


> This thread, at this time of year is asinine and does nothing but harm to the program. I will not be a part of it.



I don't think it harms the program any more than losing does, but it is pointless to discuss in January when, for the moment at least, we have a winning record.


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## bent20

WOZ said:


> So why are we so cash strapped?
> Could it be that Administraton after Administration has paid more attention to diversity than higher admission standards?
> Where has the focus on diversity got us?  Our graduation rates are shameful!  Our endowment is laughable.
> Our enrollment is down.
> 
> The main reason we are emphasizing diversity is that it is a quick and easy fix to slumping enrollments.
> That way they can collect those student fees that our athletic dept. desperately needs.
> It is not a viable solution to long term financial improvement.
> 
> We need thousands of more alums like us guys.
> Not what ISU is currently failing to produce!



Um, I think they've paid more attention to improving the university's infrastructure, and have done a damn fine job, I must say. 

Diversity though? I don't know how you can fault a university for improving its diversity and providing more opportunities to those who might be (many aren't) under privileged socio-economically. I don't think that has anything to do with our sports programs struggling though. Someone point me to the budget where we're spending a ton on diversity and not athletics. I mean, if we were, you'd be a damn fool to argue we should be focused on winning games over improving someone's lot in life, but I don't think it's the case. I think we're just cash strapped, plain and simple. We get less and less tax dollars from the state and our alums don't donate like they do at other schools. When they do, it's not for athletics. That's what happens when you have decades and decades worth of losing games. *People didn't give a crap about sports while they were here because the teams sucked. Why would they donate to their success now? *

Also, maybe this is for another thread, one we've seen posted here over and over again, but when are we dropping out of the MVC? Hell, look at the women's team. 2-12 on the year. We can verily compete in most sports.


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## Jason Svoboda

WOZ said:


> So why are we so cash strapped?
> Could it be that Administraton after Administration has paid more attention to diversity than higher admission standards?
> Where has the focus on diversity got us?  Our graduation rates are shameful!  Our endowment is laughable.
> Our enrollment is down.
> 
> The main reason we are emphasizing diversity is that it is a quick and easy fix to slumping enrollments.
> That way they can collect those student fees that our athletic dept. desperately needs.
> It is not a viable solution to long term financial improvement.
> 
> We need thousands of more alums like us guys.
> Not what ISU is currently failing to produce!



Because for decades the alumni association didn't foster relationships and build a donor pipeline. Hell, up until a few years ago, they didn't even have a database that was worth a shit. From what I understand, they've come a long way but unfortunately that is decades of people that fell through the cracks and didn't have a continued relationship with the school in any capacity unless they sought it out. That is essentially why our endowment along with annual fundraising numbers are really poor. 

So when you take out the ability to get funds from outside of business operations, it is imperative that your leadership is amazing at budgeting. As we've seen, Ron Prettyman was not as he handed out those rollover contracts. Miles jumped when he had the chance, Lansing didn't. Compounding the poor donor relations, fundraising and budgeting, college athletics is on substantial (IMO) decline. There are less students attending games, lets tickets being sold and even most TV events are drawing fewer numbers save a few blue blood programs and even some of them have issues in one of the aforementioned areas. 

I consider the folks here to be among the most diehard fans and the donor participation rate is low. Even when we did the jersey and iPad fundraising drives, we only had like 5% of the board give. Not much else to say really.


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## Jackson0330

Putting butts in the seats and buying concessions is the best way to have a sustained and successful athletic program.  Plain and simple economics. With packed houses and a combo meal and a hat you can afford who you want.  As a community we unfortunately get what we deserve by not full supporting the team.  Our MSA is 170,000, but they draw 3500 on a good night in basketball country. Why, because there’s been no sustained success.  I pray the culture changes, but the jury is out.


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## Hooper

In partial defense of RP, he was hamstrung by a Prez that was overheard saying “I’ll never pay a coach more than a Provost.”  That is not big-time college, or even mid-major college, kind of thinking.  So RP had little leverage.  Brian Dorsett Hyundais and 6400 yard Bill Diddle golf courses aren’t the kinds of fringe benefits that keep coaches around either.  A rollover term was one of the few arrows RP had in his quiver of leverage.  You can further blame lack of fundraising at the time creating a dearth of cash available to subsidize....and also blame alums for not stepping up....though I’m not sure how many were asked.


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## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> In partial defense of RP, he was hamstrung by a Prez that was overheard saying “I’ll never pay a coach more than a Provost.”  That is not big-time college, or even mid-major college, kind of thinking.  So RP had little leverage.  Brian Dorsett Hyundais and 6400 yard Bill Diddle golf courses aren’t the kinds of fringe benefits that keep coaches around either.  A rollover term was one of the few arrows RP had in his quiver of leverage.  You can further blame lack of fundraising at the time creating a dearth of cash available to subsidize....and also blame alums for not stepping up....though I’m not sure how many were asked.




In defense of that Prez; no college coach should make more than the University Pres, Provost or College Dean.   If a college's booster club wants to supplement their university salary, so be it.


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## HOOPSFAN

Lansing gets the day off for winning one they should have. The next game could be the easiest one yet.

*** Now if DeAndre Williams is close to 100% and plays he could go off for 50 and change the game dramatically.


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## Sycamorefan96

HOOPSFAN said:


> here we go .......................... post your thoughts



At least you took my advice and are keeping it off the game threads.

Any chance this gets to 100 pages like Sky's infamous "Fire Barry Hinson" thread?


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## HOOPSFAN

Sycamorefan96 said:


> At least you took my advice and are keeping it off the game threads.
> 
> Any chance this gets to 100 pages like Sky's infamous "Fire Barry Hinson" thread?



As the season rolls on we will see. If the Sycamores drop a home game & fail to win a road game? SIU fans had another long one pre-Barry when Lowery was stiffing them on a contract, similar to our situation.


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## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> As the season rolls on we will see. If the Sycamores drop a home game & fail to win a road game? SIU fans had another long one pre-Barry when Lowery was stiffing them on a contract, similar to our situation.




For the past ten seasons, the Trees are:

- 99-10 (.908) when holding their foe to 63-pts or fewer
- 94-40 (.701) in all games @ Hulman Center
- 56-27 (.675) in all MVC games @ Hulman Center
- 12-9 (.571) vs. illinois state
- 9-1 (.900) vs. Illinois state @Hulman Center


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## region rat

The photo didn’t appear


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## region rat

Photo didn’t download?


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## Westbadenboy

Here's a stat for you ………..
Since ISU began playing basketball we are undefeated when scoring more points than our opponents !
Hope this trend continues !


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## 4Q_iu

Westbadenboy said:


> Here's a stat for you ………..
> Since ISU began playing basketball we are undefeated when scoring more points than our opponents !
> Hope this trend continues !




Not always true... they lost a helluva lot of games with Ron Greene on the bench


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## bent20

A question for everyone: What would it take, in your opinion, for Lansing to get a contract extension next year? How many wins? NCAA Tournament or bust? Is it already too late save for some miracle run to the Sweet 16 or something?


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## region rat




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## Superfan1

Sadly if we can stay out of the Thursday game maybe win one game he stays a year  or so. That unfortunately is "sucess" for ISU hoops right now. I think at some point we just need to cut our losses and move on.


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## sycamore tuff

bent20 said:


> A question for everyone: What would it take, in your opinion, for Lansing to get a contract extension next year? How many wins? NCAA Tournament or bust? Is it already too late save for some miracle run to the Sweet 16 or something?



If we play on Saturday he stays.  I think he is righting the ship.  I am happy about that!


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## HOOPSFAN

bent20 said:


> A question for everyone: What would it take, in your opinion, for Lansing to get a contract extension next year? How many wins? NCAA Tournament or bust? Is it already too late save for some miracle run to the Sweet 16 or something?



TOO LATE! He needs to go! Need a new leader to further develop the young talent. How many years do you give Lansing to right the ship when he couldn't get it done for the last five? Do you give him five more to try to figure it out? Even with the talent upgrade still doubt they finish above .500 in the MVC and expect they will still play Thursday in St. Louis and he will have the same old excuses why it happened.


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## Gotta Hav

bent20 said:


> A question for everyone: What would it take, in your opinion, for Lansing to get a contract extension next year? How many wins? NCAA Tournament or bust? Is it already too late save for some miracle run to the Sweet 16 or something?



If The Great One gets to the SWEET SIXTEEN, we won't have to worry about a contract extension, he'll be long gone to a bigger conference after that!


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## bent20

Gotta Hav said:


> If The Great One gets to the SWEET SIXTEEN, we won't have to worry about a contract extension, he'll be long gone to a bigger conference after that!



Maybe a lower tier school. I can't see one sweet 16 run after five years of losing seasons being enough to entice even a mid-level power conference school. Maybe I should have just put it at "is it already too late save for an NCAA Tournament run?"


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## niklz62

A while back I was talking to a D1 coach about some of our fan base wanting Lansing fired and his response was "who else are you going to get"

that's not a bleacher jockey that was someone who has been on the inside.  

just some perspective.


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## Jason Svoboda

niklz62 said:


> A while back I was talking to a D1 coach about some of our fan base wanting Lansing fired and his response was "who else are you going to get"
> 
> that's not a bleacher jockey that was someone who has been on the inside.
> 
> just some perspective.



Meh. Let's not act like they won't have quite the pool to choose from. It's still a mid-major D1 men's basketball head coaching job and those are finite resources. 

Every time a job opens, you get 100's of guys looking for a change of scenery, to move up, a second chance, etc. The problem is the our pay often keeps them from getting guys that have demonstrated winning experience, which is what I feel like most around here want. Its no different from hiring for any company. If your job posting says it pays $50k, you instantly will shave a portion of the candidate pool because they cannot make that number work with their financial needs whereas they would apply if it said the job paid $100k. This effect cascades through your assistant coach ranks, too.


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## Gotta Hav

bent20 said:


> Maybe I should have just put it at "is it already too late save for an NCAA Tournament run?"



Yes.


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## Gotta Hav

niklz62 said:


> A while back I was talking to a D1 coach about some of our fan base wanting Lansing fired and his response was "who else are you going to get"
> 
> that's not a bleacher jockey that was someone who has been on the inside.
> 
> just some perspective.



"Some" of our fan base?

The exceptions are who....the cabal on here, the SP townie click, and all the MVC coaches who see Lansing as a guaranteed Home Win?   Some.  LOL!!!


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## niklz62

Jason Svoboda said:


> Meh. Let's not act like they won't have quite the pool to choose from. It's still a mid-major D1 men's basketball head coaching job and those are finite resources.
> 
> Every time a job opens, you get 100's of guys looking for a change of scenery, to move up, a second chance, etc. The problem is the our pay often keeps them from getting guys that have demonstrated winning experience, which is what I feel like most around here want. Its no different from hiring for any company. If your job posting says it pays $50k, you instantly will shave a portion of the candidate pool because they cannot make that number work with their financial needs whereas they would apply if it said the job paid $100k. This effect cascades through your assistant coach ranks, too.



Im not saying we wont get applicants.  Im just saying there will be a lot of Lansings applying with different names.


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## niklz62

Gotta Hav said:


> "Some" of our fan base?
> 
> The exceptions are who....the cabal on here, the SP townie click, and all the MVC coaches who see Lansing as a guaranteed Home Win?   Some.  LOL!!!



Im sorry, I meant "some" as in "you"


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## Superfan1

He lucks himself into winning the MVC tourney after he inherits McKennas team.No championships since and losing records last few season. He's just barely over .500 as a career here. Really can't do much worse with new blood. May be a rough year or two after he's gone but may be what is needed to be better consistently.


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## Hooper

Superfan1 said:


> He lucks himself into winning the MVC tourney after he inherits McKennas team.No championships since and losing records last few season. He's just barely over .500 as a career here. Really can't do much worse with new blood. May be a rough year or two after he's gone but may be what is needed to be better consistently.



He recruited most of McKenna's team when he was in stint 2 with Royce.  Oh, and in stint 1 he recruited most of that two-time NCAA tourney team as well.  How quickly some of you all forget or ignore that.  In fact, it was when he left for Iowa that recruiting went to pot and Royce himself admitted his losing seasons were due to "recruiting mistakes."  When GL came back he started recruiting again and 2-3 seasons later they're in the CBI, then the NCAA, then the CIT, then the NIT x2.  

GL has a better winning percentage than Waltman, Dillard, Greene, Locke, and Schellhase--all the while having the worst budget, lowest salary pool, and close-to-worst (if not the worst) facilities in the league.  If ISU can do better they haven't shown the ability to do so in the last 40 years.


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## TreeTop

Hooper said:


> If ISU can do better they haven't shown the ability to do so in the last 40 years.



THIS right here, thank you!


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## Bluethunder

Superfan1 said:


> He lucks himself into winning the MVC tourney after he inherits McKennas team.No championships since and losing records last few season. He's just barely over .500 as a career here. Really can't do much worse with new blood. May be a rough year or two after he's gone but may be what is needed to be better consistently.



If you were fan of Indiana State basketball before Lansing in the 80's and 90's, you would know it can get a lot worse!


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## CicrtckySycamore

Bluethunder said:


> If you were fan of Indiana State basketball before Lansing in the 80's and 90's, you would know it can get a lot worse!



I was there! ‘89-‘93. And I was still a fan despite the losing record seasons headed up by Coach Tates Locke. However, Tates did win MVC Coach of the Year in 1991! Oh... Wait... maybe it was with his 14-14 record that season after going 8-22 in the previous season. Ok, much worse!.


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## sycamorebacker

I wish you negative nellys would all shut up and eat your spinach.  You are not going to get what you want.  Maybe you should grow up and grow a pair.  You need to learn that in life, you don't get everything you want.  Life is not a video game.    
I've been following ISU through ALL of our D1 history.  If you want better than what we have had the last few years, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Unless we recruit another Bird, this is as good as it gets.  So, give it up or get out of here!


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## Sycamorefan96

Probably a very unpopular opinion and I am prepared to get grilled on it. But I think we are a low major program playing in a mid major conference, and half of the fans are still living in the glory days of when Bird was here.

Until our administration actually takes basketball seriously or we switch conferences we will be a below average team 8 out of every 10 years no matter who the coach is.


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## HOOPSFAN

sycamorebacker said:


> I wish you negative nellys would all shut up and eat your spinach.  You are not going to get what you want.  Maybe you should grow up and grow a pair.  You need to learn that in life, you don't get everything you want.  Life is not a video game.
> I've been following ISU through ALL of our D1 history.  If you want better than what we have had the last few years, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
> 
> Unless we recruit another Bird, this is as good as it gets.  So, give it up or get out of here!



Thanks for your advice but who made you King? ............ no its not as good as it could be. It could be consistently upper half of the MVC. Don't think that is too much to expect. Maybe if we doubled Lansing's salary he would do a better job?


----------



## sycamorebacker

HOOPSFAN said:


> Thanks for your advice but who made you King? ............ no its not as good as it could be. It could be consistently upper half of the MVC. Don't think that is too much to expect. Maybe if we doubled Lansing's salary he would do a better job?



Sorry.  You are dead wrong.  How old are you?  Are you in the generation that HAS to have everything they want and think it is owed to them?


----------



## sycamorebacker

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Probably a very unpopular opinion and I am prepared to get grilled on it. But I think we are a low major program playing in a mid major conference, and half of the fans are still living in the glory days of when Bird was here.
> 
> Until our administration actually takes basketball seriously or we switch conferences we will be a below average team 8 out of every 10 years no matter who the coach is.



I think the MVC is a good fit for us.  Do you want to be in a conference that is easy to win?  I want competition.

Have we been below average 8 out of 10 years?  In CL's 9 years, we have been "below average" 5 times.  So after this year, it will be 5/10 with us on an upswing.


----------



## meistro

Wow! What a great thread this is.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

We pay our coach 250k and couldn't buy him out if we wanted to while there are schools in our conference that pay their coaches 750k plus per year. I fail to see how the MVC is such a great fit.

I like the MVC okay, but if we aren't going go fund basketball the right way then we should get out.


----------



## bent20

Hooper said:


> He recruited most of McKenna's team when he was in stint 2 with Royce.  Oh, and in stint 1 he recruited most of that two-time NCAA tourney team as well.  How quickly some of you all forget or ignore that.  In fact, it was when he left for Iowa that recruiting went to pot and Royce himself admitted his losing seasons were due to "recruiting mistakes."  When GL came back he started recruiting again and 2-3 seasons later they're in the CBI, then the NCAA, then the CIT, then the NIT x2.
> 
> GL has a better winning percentage than Waltman, Dillard, Greene, Locke, and Schellhase--all the while having the worst budget, lowest salary pool, and close-to-worst (if not the worst) facilities in the league.  If ISU can do better they haven't shown the ability to do so in the last 40 years.



Part of the problem is we stick with losing coaches so long, we never know if we can do better. McKenna and Dillard both left for other jobs, so we never really got to see what they could do over the long haul, but their teams went on to some success immediately after their departures. And they each took over absolute dumpster fires when they got here and turned them around. Most schools would not keep Lansing, Waltman and Locke as long as we have/did.

The fact that since '94 we've had just four coaches and nine winning seasons to 16 losing seasons is pretty alarming.


----------



## bent20

sycamorebacker said:


> I think the MVC is a good fit for us.  Do you want to be in a conference that is easy to win?  I want competition.
> 
> Have we been below average 8 out of 10 years?  In CL's 9 years, we have been "below average" 5 times.  So after this year, it will be 5/10 with us on an upswing.



I want to be competitive. Competition isn't getting your butt kicked over and over again by opponents who hold numerous advantages over you.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

bent20 said:


> I want to be competitive. Competition isn't getting your butt kicked over and over again by opponents who hold numerous advantages over you.



Agree with this. Half the teams we play in basketball only care about basketball, half the teams we play in football only care about football, and then in baseball we play a school that only cares about baseball. Yet somehow our fans expect us to be good at everything even though we are underfunded in basketball and have terrible facilities for football. We actually seem to do baseball right fortunately. It is the only sport I really get excited for anymore. I have never had an expectation of winning conference titles in football or basketball.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Probably a very unpopular opinion and I am prepared to get grilled on it. But I think we are a low major program playing in a mid major conference, and half of the fans are still living in the glory days of when Bird was here.
> 
> Until our administration actually takes basketball seriously or we switch conferences we will be a below average team 8 out of every 10 years no matter who the coach is.




Quit exaggerating. 
 9/16= .5625        
  2/10=.200


----------



## sycamorebacker

Here's Lansing's conference wins the last 9 years (11-19) vs the other teams:
UNI.........92
ILL ST......89
ISU.........80
MSU........77
UE..........73
SIU.........70
DRAKE......64
BRADLEY...51


----------



## Sycamorefan96

sycamore tuff said:


> Quit exaggerating.
> 9/16= .5625
> 2/10=.200



Since the 1979-80 season we have had 9 winning seasons, 28 losing seasons, and 2 .500 seasons. Only 4 of those winning seasons were 20 win seasons. We've won the MVC once and the tournament twice. As far as I am concerned that is very below average. We've had a winning season on average 3 of every 10 years since Bird left.

Correction: My math was slightly wrong. We've had a winning season 23% (2.3 times every 10 years) of the time since 1979. I originally divided 9 by 30 instead of 9 by 39.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

meistro said:


> Wow! What a great thread this is.



Actually, for someone that believes he should be fired and base it simply off personal vendetta or emotion, this thread should be helpful if they actually want to look at the issue impartially. I've tried to present factual, rational and logical points/counterpoints in here. It's funny, you and I had a dust up last year where you complained about me bringing up finances all of the time with regards to fielding a successful program. Here we are a year later and the same issue is rearing its ugly head. 

Until there is a significant financial commitment to the basketball program from the University AS WELL AS its supporters, we're performing about where we should. It has been statistically proven (Hi Twitch!) that the more you spend the more you win. College athletics are a pay to win model. 

Lansing is an above .500 coach in a sub .500 organization.


----------



## Hooper

It's still just so hard to swallow what we could have had with better leadership, planning, and fundraising.  HC could have become the best, or one of the best, college basketball arenas in Indiana and certainly one of the best among mid-majors in the Midwest.  This would have done wonders for the program.  Oh what could have been:


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Sycamorefan96 said:


> We pay our coach 250k and couldn't buy him out if we wanted to while there are schools in our conference that pay their coaches 750k plus per year. I fail to see how the MVC is such a great fit.
> 
> I like the MVC okay, but if we aren't going go fund basketball the right way then we should get out.



The present MVC is not your old MVC. It is no longer a NCAA multi-bid conference. With conference realignment constantly happening it is probably a good time to start looking at where we really belong in the near future.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Hooper said:


> It's still just so hard to swallow what we could have had with better leadership, planning, and fundraising.  HC could have become the best, or one of the best, college basketball arenas in Indiana and certainly one of the best among mid-majors in the Midwest.  This would have done wonders for the program.  Oh what could have been:



I think it's still going to be pretty nice.  I'm not totally enamored of the exterior, but I think the interior is going to end up being great.  It will certainly be one of the nicer arenas in Indiana.  Not the prettiest, but better than Ball State's, and that is a major thing...:laugh:


----------



## bent20

sycamorebacker said:


> Here's Lansing's conference wins the last 9 years (11-19) vs the other teams:
> UNI.........92
> ILL ST......89
> ISU.........80
> MSU........77
> UE..........73
> SIU.........70
> DRAKE......64
> BRADLEY...51



I've seen people post this a few times. Let's look at the last five years:

Ill St 59-31
UNI 52-38
Loy 50-40
SIU 45-45
Ind St 39-51
EU 39-51 
MSU 37-53
Drake 35-55
Bradley 31-59

Valpo 56-32*


----------



## bent20

And - when looking at Lansing's win-loss record - if you take away our 11-7 year from five years ago and look at just the last FOUR YEARS. We have the worst conference record in the MVC.

Ill St 48-24
Loy 42-30
SIU 41-31
UNI 36-36
MSU 32-40
EU 30-42
Drake 29-43
Bradley 28-44
Ind St 28-44


----------



## meistro

Jason Svoboda said:


> Actually, for someone that believes he should be fired and base it simply off personal vendetta or emotion, this thread should be helpful if they actually want to look at the issue impartially. I've tried to present factual, rational and logical points/counterpoints in here. It's funny, you and I had a dust up last year where you complained about me bringing up finances all of the time with regards to fielding a successful program. Here we are a year later and the same issue is rearing its ugly head.
> 
> Until there is a significant financial commitment to the basketball program from the University AS WELL AS its supporters, we're performing about where we should. It has been statistically proven (Hi Twitch!) that the more you spend the more you win. College athletics are a pay to win model.
> 
> Lansing is an above .500 coach in a sub .500 organization.



I understand your point and agree for the most part. My argument in the past was that we had the players to compete and the coaches weren’t getting it out of them, and money wouldn’t make a difference. People on here criticizing GL is one thing. Having a vendetta against him is another. We have actually been playing pretty well and have by all accounts a great freshman class. For them to start a thread like this in mid season and not see what happens is bull shit, and does nothing but undermine the program.


----------



## bent20

meistro said:


> I understand your point and agree for the most part. My argument in the past was that we had the players to compete and the coaches weren’t getting it out of them, and money wouldn’t make a difference. People on here criticizing GL is one thing. Having a vendetta against him is another. We have actually been playing pretty well and have by all accounts a great freshman class. For them to start a thread like this in mid season and not see what happens is bull shit, and does nothing but undermine the program.



I think if this team finishes with a winning record this year and next, then you must have a serious discussion about whether Lansing is retained. Right now, as of today, I think he wouldn't be, but still a season and a half for that to change. His teams have been trending downward season by season, but a winning record this year and next would beg the question.


----------



## HOOPSFAN




----------



## region rat




----------



## bent20

HOOPSFAN said:


> View attachment 1451



By that standard Mitch Hannahs should be dead about ten times over.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> View attachment 1451





 Indiana State is now a perfect 23-0 when holding teams to 53 points or  less and held both Evansville and Illinois State under that threshold in  back-to-back contests.


----------



## meistro

Hooper said:


> It's still just so hard to swallow what we could have had with better leadership, planning, and fundraising.  HC could have become the best, or one of the best, college basketball arenas in Indiana and certainly one of the best among mid-majors in the Midwest.  This would have done wonders for the program.  Oh what could have been:



Yes, it would have been great if this is what we were getting. Remember, this was an early rendering, and projects rarely end up as the best case scenario. And if you're following the still ongoing battle over the convention center, maybe we were right in moving forward. Trying to get our local politicians on the same page can be a struggle, let alone throwing in a university president.


----------



## Hooper

meistro said:


> Yes, it would have been great if this is what we were getting. Remember, this was an early rendering, and projects rarely end up as the best case scenario. And if you're following the still ongoing battle over the convention center, maybe we were right in moving forward. Trying to get our local politicians on the same page can be a struggle, let alone throwing in a university president.



I get all that but this rendering was used in lots of promotional material, including emails from the ISU Foundation AFTER the bidding debacle.  Many sources said this version was a go for a long, long time--and the excuses given for it not happening aren't good ones and could have been remedied in my opinion.  Nevertheless, it isn't happening.  Hulman Center will be renovated at less cost and it will be ok.  But it could have been great.


----------



## sycamore tuff

The bad thing is that when we win the ncaa a reporter will say it would have been a great moment if only HC had a convention center attached to it.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Four of these bottom six teams will play in the Indiana State Invitational on Thursday night in St. Louis:

2019-2020 Missouri Valley Conference Standings
TEAM	CONF	GB	OVR
Northern Iowa	5-1	-	16-2
Loyola Chicago	4-1	0.5	12-6
Bradley	4-2	1	13-6
Drake	3-2	1.5	13-5
----------------------------------------
Indiana State	3-3	2	10-7
Valparaiso	3-3	2	10-9
Missouri State	3-3	2	9-10
Southern Illinois	2-3	2.5	8-10
Illinois State	1-4	3.5	6-11
Evansville          0-6           9-10

Thanks for the memories Lansing.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Change the culture- FIRE LANSING! The worst bench coach in the league.

Heading his team into the abyss AGAIN


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Herein lies the problem ...... coaching the wrong sport and defense is only an afterthought"

"2️⃣ time Iowa High School Football State &#55356;&#57286;for @CoachLansing. 

One as WR. One as QB."

If @CmalryMallory ever needs some more offensive &#55357;&#56613; power...&#55357;&#56391;


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Evansville got rid of their coach. Forget the Sycamores picking up a road win down there. They will shape up or ship out right away.
Sycamores still have their career .500 mentor. Kind of like the tail wagging the dog.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Last time I checked Lansing wasn't messing around with cheerleaders and students at ISU. McCarty was warned about it several times. Lansing maybe hasn't won as much as we have wanted, but at least he hasn't brought shame to our program. I get that you want Lansing fired, but that is a totally different situation going on down there.


----------



## TreeTop

HOOPSFAN said:


> Evansville got rid of their coach. Forget the Sycamores picking up a road win down there. They will shape up or ship out right away.
> Sycamores still have their career .500 mentor. Kind of like the tail wagging the dog.



You're looking at a game that's 10 games away.  Makes sense.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Evansville got rid of their coach. Forget the Sycamores picking up a road win down there. They will shape up or ship out right away.
> Sycamores still have their career .500 mentor. Kind of like the tail wagging the dog.





Blah, Blah, Blah 

 Blah-Blah

Blah

Blah-BLAH-Blah-Blah


Why don't you either unass the cash to buy out his contract, send it here:

Indiana State University,
Department of Athletics,
c/o:  Sheraard Clinkscales; Director of Athletics 										
401 North 4th Street
ISU Arena Suite 110
Terre Haute, Indiana 47809


Start a GoFundMe page for the same reason

or kick the record player...   same message repeating, over and over and over


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> Blah, Blah, Blah
> 
> Blah-Blah
> 
> Blah
> 
> Blah-BLAH-Blah-Blah
> 
> 
> Why don't you either unass the cash to buy out his contract, send it here:
> 
> Indiana State University,
> Department of Athletics,
> c/o:  Sheraard Clinkscales; Director of Athletics
> 401 North 4th Street
> ISU Arena Suite 110
> Terre Haute, Indiana 47809
> 
> 
> Start a GoFundMe page for the same reason
> 
> or kick the record player...   same message repeating, over and over and over



If I had the $$$ he would have been history before this season even began. There are a few people around the program that do have expendable funds that are getting closer to making that happen this time around. I applaud them when they make it happen.

And by the way lest anyone forget Lansing was a part of the Pierre Pierce crime of a similar nature that unfolded in Iowa when he was one of Alford's Boys and they tried to get him out of it and kept him on the team for way longer than he should have been. And Yes you are guilty by association. Stevie didn't do it alone.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> If I had the $$$ he would have been history before this season even began. There are a few people around the program that do have expendable funds that are getting closer to making that happen this time around. I applaud them when they make it happen...



Given that Lansing's contract expires in 14-15 months, I doubt any "deep-pocketed" alumni is going to donate to a "buyout package" at this point.

Fully expect the change, any change to be made post 2020-2021 season


----------



## sycamorebacker

HOOPSFAN said:


> Evansville got rid of their coach. Forget the Sycamores picking up a road win down there. They will shape up or ship out right away.
> Sycamores still have their career .500 mentor. Kind of like the tail wagging the dog.



Would you shut your mouth.  Nobody cares what you think.


----------



## Bluethunder

HOOPSFAN is actually Greg Lansing.  He is using reverse psychology to get people on his side.  By posting the same rant ad naseum he is slowly making people have sympathy for HCGL and will make people demand he get another contract just to spite "HOOPSFAN". It's quite a brilliant strategy when you think about it.

Well played Lansing, well played indeed.


----------



## Jackson0330

Bluethunder said:


> HOOPSFAN is actually Greg Lansing.  He is using reverse psychology to get people on his side.  By posting the same rant ad naseum he is slowly making people have sympathy for HCGL and will make people demand he get another contract just to spite "HOOPSFAN". It's quite a brilliant strategy when you think about it.
> 
> Well played Lansing, well played indeed.



&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56838;&#55357;&#56834;&#55358;&#56611;


----------



## Jackson0330

Bluethunder said:


> HOOPSFAN is actually Greg Lansing.  He is using reverse psychology to get people on his side.  By posting the same rant ad naseum he is slowly making people have sympathy for HCGL and will make people demand he get another contract just to spite "HOOPSFAN". It's quite a brilliant strategy when you think about it.
> 
> Well played Lansing, well played indeed.



Those were laughing emoji’s.  That’s the funniest post I’ve ever heard on here.  Lol


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Lansing is showing some of his best work tonight again. Porter Moser is kicking his ass and he doesn't know how to stop it. You Lansing lovers sure must like losing season after season after season. After this beat-down Sycamores will be lucky to win one of their next six games and the first two are at home.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

sycamorebacker said:


> Would you shut your mouth.  Nobody cares what you think.



Nope ... the truth hurts doesn't it.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Lansing better go ask the AD for a pay raise after this one so he can coach better if you pay him more.


----------



## pbutler218

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lansing better go ask the AD for a pay raise after this one so he can coach better if you pay him more.



No...he should walk right into Clink's office tomorrow and do the right thing and resign. What a joke of a coach. We deserve better and we'll never get it with him.


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> Nope ... the truth hurts doesn't it.



I’m sure you enjoyed tonight much more than any win, pathetic.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

meistro said:


> I’m sure you enjoyed tonight much more than any win, pathetic.



Only the blind or maybe a referee can not see. That Lansing is a great coach isn't he?


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> Only the blind or maybe a referee can not see. That Lansing is a great coach isn't he?



It’s not about him being a good coach or not. It’s about your hatred for him and your joy in our team losing. You’re not a fan of ISU, so quit pretending to be.


----------



## Jackson0330

meistro said:


> It’s not about him being a good coach or not. It’s about your hatred for him and your joy in our team losing. You’re not a fan of ISU, so quit pretending to be.



I know everybody believes Hoopesfan is Greg Lansing, but I’ve come to my own conclusion.  I, believe, Hoopesfan is “The Vanderbilt Whistler.”  After all, it says he hails from the Volunteer State.  We invite you to come to the games and whistle all you want.  We could use the college games most annoying presence in the stands. It can only help. Lol


----------



## HOOPSFAN

meistro said:


> It’s not about him being a good coach or not. It’s about your hatred for him and your joy in our team losing. You’re not a fan of ISU, so quit pretending to be.



Take your shades off and see the real picture Misty.


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> Take your shades off and see the real picture Misty.



You sir are an ass.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

HOOPSFAN said:


> Take your shades off and see the real picture Misty.



So we know you don't open your wallet and donate. 

Have you written a letter to Deborah Curtis asking her to fund basketball sufficiently upon the next head coaching change? If so, how about you post up your form letter so everyone else can follow suit. What actions have you personally taken to effect change?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Jason Svoboda said:


> So we know you don't open your wallet and donate.
> 
> Have you written a letter to Deborah Curtis asking her to fund basketball sufficiently upon the next head coaching change? If so, how about you post up your form letter so everyone else can follow suit. What actions have you personally taken to effect change?



I don't have the kind of $$$ you do Jason or I would have sent him packing already. However please keep in mind I did not hire him and I did not allow his contract to keep rolling regardless of his annual performance. He is not my mistake. The people at the top even though they were not on board when that occurred need to own up to the problem and figure out a way to move him on down the line. They have access to the people that could make it happen.


----------



## Bluethunder

HOOPSFAN said:


> I don't have the kind of $$$ you do Jason or I would have sent him packing already. However please keep in mind I did not hire him and I did not allow his contract to keep rolling regardless of his annual performance. He is not my mistake. The people at the top even though they were not on board when that occurred need to own up to the problem and figure out a way to move him on down the line. They have access to the people that could make it happen.



I think that was a roundabout way to say “none” to your last question Jason.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> I don't have the kind of $$$ you do Jason or I would have sent him packing already. However please keep in mind I did not hire him and I did not allow his contract to keep rolling regardless of his annual performance. He is not my mistake. The people at the top even though they were not on board when that occurred need to own up to the problem and figure out a way to move him on down the line. They have access to the people that could make it happen.




For most everyone, it's quite apparent that short of a "Walter McCarty-like" f__k-up, that Lansing will be here through his contract (2020-2021.)   You either need to accept that fact or quit bitching about.  As to "having access" to those that can make it happen, it's pretty apparent that he's isn't going anywhere.

So, pony up with your $$ or give your diatribe a rest.


----------



## pbutler218

4Q_iu said:


> For most everyone, it's quite apparent that short of a "Walter McCarty-like" f__k-up, that Lansing will be here through his contract (2020-2021.)   You either need to accept that fact or quit bitching about.  As to "having access" to those that can make it happen, it's pretty apparent that he's isn't going anywhere.
> 
> So, pony up with your $$ or give your diatribe a rest.



So he needs to GET IT DONE like he's promised for the past few seasons. Balls in his court. Still waiting.........


----------



## Gotta Hav

pbutler218 said:


> So he needs to GET IT DONE like he's promised for the past few seasons. Balls in his court. Still waiting.........



Callin' for a ONE DAY SUSPENSION of your Western Indiana, Phraseology Card. 

This shoulda been written as "So he needs to GET 'ER DONE like he's promised for the past few seasons. Balls in his court. Still waiting......"


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> For most everyone, it's quite apparent that short of a "Walter McCarty-like" f__k-up, that Lansing will be here through his contract (2020-2021.)   You either need to accept that fact or quit bitching about.  As to "having access" to those that can make it happen, it's pretty apparent that he's isn't going anywhere.
> 
> So, pony up with your $$ or give your diatribe a rest.



I think the question worth discussing is what does Lansing have to do with the remainder of this year and next year to potentially receive a contract extension.


----------



## niklz62

By the end of this thread, we are going to find out that Hoopsfan doesnt want Lansing fired, he wants to literally set him on fire.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> I think the question worth discussing is what does Lansing have to do with the remainder of this year and next year to potentially receive a contract extension.




True -- a worthy question; worthy enough for a different thread.


----------



## TreeTop

4Q_iu said:


> True -- a worthy question; worthy enough for a different thread.



Please no.  We've got enough Lansing threads.

Considering that the buyout after this season is in the $250k range (I forget what it is exactly), anything short of losing every game the rest of the season keeps his employment safe for next year.

In reality, we'll probably finish the season around .500 (give or take a game or two).  That type of record keeps Lansing's job safe enough for a return next season.

IF we lose every game from here on out, that would give us a season-ending record of 10-20.  With that kind of record and that kind of #collapse to finish the season, I think Sherard would find a way to buyout out the $250K and fire our coach.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> I think the question worth discussing is what does Lansing have to do with the remainder of this year and next year to potentially receive a contract extension.



It's been asked before. I'll repeat what my answer has been. I don't think there is anything he could do to earn an extension save of winning 30 games and making a Loyola/Wichita State NCAA run. Whenever an AD takes the job, usually they do so with the understanding that they will hire their guys and should not be judged on the previous regimes hires. He stopped the rollover (as he should, as no coach should have that) and the clock started then and there.

Furthermore, unless someone has donated to buy out the final year, knowing the money issues the school has, it would show a lack of competence to spend $275-300k to let a coach walk knowing most years we only get $750-900k in TOTAL athletics donations. ESPECIALLY when you have to turn right back around and give another guy a 5 year deal, and if you're attracting "better" candidates, the base needs to be higher.

It's always easy spending cash when you're playing Monopoly. When you have to open your own wallet and can't rub two nickles together, well...


----------



## Hooper

J we only get $750-900k in TOTAL athletics donations. [/QUOTE said:
			
		

> And the ironic part being Lansing is the one that raises 10-20 percent of that amount on his own every year vis-a-viz his annual September event and other personal relationships with well-to-do folks both inside and outside of Terre Haute.  If his record improves this year and next and he's still let go there will be some wealthy people unhappy with the ISU administration.


----------



## 4Q_iu

TreeTop said:


> Please no.  We've got enough Lansing threads.
> 
> Considering that the buyout after this season is in the $250k range (I forget what it is exactly), anything short of losing every game the rest of the season keeps his employment safe for next year.
> 
> In reality, we'll probably finish the season around .500 (give or take a game or two).  That type of record keeps Lansing's job safe enough for a return next season.
> 
> IF we lose every game from here on out, that would give us a season-ending record of 10-20.  With that kind of record and that kind of #collapse to finish the season, I think Sherard would find a way to buyout out the $250K and fire our coach.




Rest easy... Bumped up an earlier thread created by Jason...

I see no scenario where his contract is bought out; either he gets an extension because of a fantastic finish or it expires and Clink makes a new hire


----------



## TreeTop

4Q_iu said:


> Rest easy... Bumped up an earlier thread created by Jason...
> 
> I see no scenario where his contract is bought out; either he gets an extension because of a fantastic finish or it expires and Clink makes a new hire



Haha, I did see that after-the-fact.

And really? No scenario?  Not even the worst-case scenario of losing out the rest of the season?


----------



## niklz62

A rollover deal is a good deal if you had a guy you thought was going to move up that way his buyout would pay the next guy's salary.  I think Arkansas State's football coach's salary was paid by other schools for a few years.


----------



## niklz62

bent20 said:


> I think the question worth discussing is what does Lansing have to do with the remainder of this year and next year to potentially receive a contract extension.



If he were to finish top 3 in the conference and then win the conference tournament, I wouldnt complain about giving him some sort of extension, like maybe 2 years.


----------



## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> It's been asked before. I'll repeat what my answer has been. I don't think there is anything he could do to earn an extension save of winning 30 games and making a Loyola/Wichita State NCAA run. Whenever an AD takes the job, usually they do so with the understanding that they will hire their guys and should not be judged on the previous regimes hires. He stopped the rollover (as he should, as no coach should have that) and the clock started then and there.
> 
> Furthermore, unless someone has donated to buy out the final year, knowing the money issues the school has, it would show a lack of competence to spend $275-300k to let a coach walk knowing most years we only get $750-900k in TOTAL athletics donations. ESPECIALLY when you have to turn right back around and give another guy a 5 year deal, and if you're attracting "better" candidates, the base needs to be higher.
> 
> It's always easy spending cash when you're playing Monopoly. When you have to open your own wallet and can't rub two nickles together, well...



Thanks for the response. Just for the record, I've never been in the buy him out camp for the reasons you state here. And not to presume anything, and speak for them, but I think the Lansing bashers know he's not going to be bought out. I think they hope if they're vocal enough they'll run him out, get enough people to agree with them so as to make Lansing miserable enough to leave voluntarily at season's end, but I also don't believe that will happen.

I was curious what people think it would take to retain Lansing because I do think there are people on different sides of the stop bashing Lansing camp. There are those who would retain Lansing even if he just keeps us around .500 this year and next, and those who know (and agree with the decision) he's gone short of a miracle season next year.


----------



## 4Q_iu

TreeTop said:


> Haha, I did see that after-the-fact.
> 
> And really? No scenario?  Not even the worst-case scenario of losing out the rest of the season?




No, I see his contract being met.  I don't see the team losing the next 12 games;  I believe we've only had 12 game losing streaks under Ron Greene


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> Thanks for the response. Just for the record, I've never been in the buy him out camp for the reasons you state here. And not to presume anything, and speak for them, but I think the Lansing bashers know he's not going to be bought out. I think they hope if they're vocal enough they'll run him out, get enough people to agree with them so as to make Lansing miserable enough to leave voluntarily at season's end, but I also don't believe that will happen.
> 
> I was curious what people think it would take to retain Lansing because I do think there are people on different sides of the stop bashing Lansing camp. There are those who would retain Lansing even if he just keeps us around .500 this year and next, and those who know (and agree with the decision) he's gone short of a miracle season next year.




Lansing is 158-150 at the moment; if the team finishes as they've played (.556), they'll end the season at 17-13 prior to ArchMadness.

As of this morning, he's 24 wins behind Duane Klueh for the school mark...

What happens if he passes Klueh in the 2nd half of the 2020-21 Valley schedule... is he still shown the door? Given a modest (2-yr) extension?


----------



## Gotta Hav

4Q_iu said:


> Lansing is 158-150 at the moment; if the team finishes as they've played (.556), they'll end the season at 17-13 prior to ArchMadness.
> 
> As of this morning, he's 24 wins behind Duane Klueh for the school mark...
> 
> What happens if he passes Klueh in the 2nd half of the 2020-21 Valley schedule... is he still shown the door? Given a modest (2-yr) extension?



I don’t understand your persistent comparison between these two Head Coaches.  It absolutely makes no sense.

Klueh won *THREE* conference titles, and had *FIVE* post-season berths; and his post-season record was 3-6!!!

Weren't you the one who said you have to accomplishments as a player for consideration to have your jersey retired, not just because you're popular with the Townies?   Well you need some accomplishments from GL to get a Contract Extension too, right?

What are THE GREAT ONE's accomplishments to date? In comparison to Klueh, there isn’t any.

Lansing has ZERO NCAA post season wins, ZERO CIT wins, ZERO NIT wins after two attempts, and he's NEVER won a Conference Title.

He did win one MVC Tournament in a very down year for The Valley, and that was only by squeaking by 6th Seeded Evansville on a Buzzer Beater while we were the 3rd Seed.   Even regular season Champions Missouri State, had to come from behind in each their first two games in 2011 to get the Championship game against us.  That’s how bad the Valley was that year.

Also for apples-n-apples comparisons, it took Klueh 12 years to get those wins....and even though Lansing is within 23 wins of Klueh after 10 seasons...he will be hard pressed to get 23 more wins by the end of the 2020/2021 season to pass Klueh.

Also, Klueh got his wins in 304 games over 12 years.  In comparison Lansing will have the luxury to surpass Klueh in wins, by coaching 372 games over 12 years!!!


----------



## Hooper

Gotta Hav said:


> I don’t understand your persistent comparison between these two Head Coaches.  It absolutely makes no sense.
> 
> Klueh won *THREE* conference titles, and had *FIVE* post-season berths; and his post-season record was 3-6!!!
> 
> Weren't you the one who said you have to accomplishments as a player for consideration to have your jersey retired, not just because you're popular with the Townies?   Well you need some accomplishments from GL to get a Contract Extension too, right?
> 
> What are THE GREAT ONE's accomplishments to date? In comparison to Klueh, there isn’t any.
> 
> Lansing has ZERO NCAA post season wins, ZERO CIT wins, ZERO NIT wins after two attempts, and he's NEVER won a Conference Title.
> 
> He did win one MVC Tournament in a very down year for The Valley, and that was only by squeaking by 6th Seeded Evansville on a Buzzer Beater while we were the 3rd Seed.   Even regular season Champions Missouri State, had to come from behind in each their first two games in 2011 to get the Championship game against us.  That’s how bad the Valley was that year.
> 
> Also for apples-n-apples comparisons, it took Klueh 12 years to get those wins....and even though Lansing is within 23 wins of Klueh after 10 seasons...he will be hard pressed to get 23 more wins by the end of the 2020/2021 season to pass Klueh.
> 
> Also, Klueh got his wins in 304 games over 12 years.  In comparison Lansing will have the luxury to surpass Klueh in wins, by coaching 372 games over 12 years!!!



If the ISU administration sticks with its small-time, bush league mantra of not paying a coach more than a Provost the list of potential Lansing replacements won’t be that impressive.  Oh, there’ll be plenty of applicants but it’ll be quantity more than quality.  I would wager every other MVC school, or almost every school, pays its basketball coach more than it’s Provost.

For perspective, Bryan Mullins was an ASSISTANT in our conference when he moved to be HC at his own alma mater SIU.  Not a P5 assistant—a Loyola assistant....and they had to cough up half a million a year to get him.  Dana Ford came to the MVC from the OVC and that cost MSU almost half a mil a year.  How would we get any sort of hot shot P5 assistant or someone in any sort of demand at our level with our budgetary limitations?  Not to mention anyone that can do what Lansing has.  Here in Indy I still have bragging rights over all the IU and Butler alums.   And I will for a while because both programs are scared to play a Lansing-coached team.

Be careful what you wish for, Lansing haters.


----------



## niklz62

Hooper said:


> If the ISU administration sticks with its small-time, bush league mantra of not paying a coach more than a Provost the list of potential Lansing replacements won’t be that impressive.  Oh, there’ll be plenty of applicants but it’ll be quantity more than quality.  I would wager every other MVC school, or almost every school, pays its basketball coach more than it’s Provost.
> 
> For perspective, Bryan Mullins was an ASSISTANT in our conference when he moved to be HC at his own alma mater SIU.  Not a P5 assistant—a Loyola assistant....and they had to cough up half a million a year to get him.  Dana Ford came to the MVC from the OVC and that cost MSU almost half a mil a year.  How would we get any sort of hot shot P5 assistant or someone in any sort of demand at our level with our budgetary limitations?  Not to mention anyone that can do what Lansing has.  Here in Indy I still have bragging rights over all the IU and Butler alums.   And I will for a while because both programs are scared to play a Lansing-coached team.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for, Lansing haters.



best case scenario is we get a great hire and have to keep doing it as they leave quickly.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Gotta Hav said:


> I don’t understand your persistent comparison between these two Head Coaches.  It absolutely makes no sense.
> 
> Klueh won *THREE* conference titles, and had *FIVE* post-season berths; and his post-season record was 3-6!!!
> 
> Weren't you the one who said you have to accomplishments as a player for consideration to have your jersey retired, not just because you're popular with the Townies?   Well you need some accomplishments from GL to get a Contract Extension too, right?
> 
> What are THE GREAT ONE's accomplishments to date? In comparison to Klueh, there isn’t any.
> 
> Lansing has ZERO NCAA post season wins, ZERO CIT wins, ZERO NIT wins after two attempts, and he's NEVER won a Conference Title.
> 
> He did win one MVC Tournament in a very down year for The Valley, and that was only by squeaking by 6th Seeded Evansville on a Buzzer Beater while we were the 3rd Seed.   Even regular season Champions Missouri State, had to come from behind in each their first two games in 2011 to get the Championship game against us.  That’s how bad the Valley was that year.
> 
> Also for apples-n-apples comparisons, it took Klueh 12 years to get those wins....and even though Lansing is within 23 wins of Klueh after 10 seasons...he will be hard pressed to get 23 more wins by the end of the 2020/2021 season to pass Klueh.
> 
> Also, Klueh got his wins in 304 games over 12 years.  In comparison Lansing will have the luxury to surpass Klueh in wins, by coaching 372 games over 12 years!!!




Seriously?   Just look at the ISU MBB Program's "Coaching Leaders"

Klueh is #1, Lansing is #2 on the "all-time wins" table

If Wally Marks was # 1 and Lansing was #2, I'd make the same point.

For all of the old f***ers that populate this board and forever wax poetically (while waxing something else) about the HEIGHT of ISU MBB, was that from 1955-1967?  Or the King/Hodges Era?   Or Birch Bayh, SR?

Some of those same old f***ers bitch about Lansing's Div II wins -- guess what; MOST of Klueh's wins were Div II wins as well.

I place them next to each other because they are currently #1 and #2 in "all-time wins,"   when Curt Mallory sprints past Wally Marks for the #2 position behind Dennis Raetz, I'll then compare Mallory and Raetz in "all-time wins"


----------



## 4Q_iu

niklz62 said:


> best case scenario is we get a great hire and have to keep doing it as they leave quickly.




So, your best case scenario is we "re-boot" every 3-4 years...  Hmmm, when did we do that?   

IIRC, from 1975 through 1997.


----------



## Gotta Hav

niklz62 said:


> best case scenario is we get a great hire and have to keep doing it as they leave quickly.



Oh gawd, I'm with you.  I'll just hate winning the MVC regular season Championship in back-to-back years, and winning three or five games in the NCAA tournament.   It will just be awful.


----------



## Gotta Hav

4Q_iu said:


> Seriously?   Just look at the ISU MBB Program's "Coaching Leaders"
> 
> Klueh is #1, Lansing is #2 on the "all-time wins" table
> 
> If Wally Marks was # 1 and Lansing was #2, I'd make the same point.
> 
> For all of the old f***ers that populate this board and forever wax poetically (while waxing something else) about the HEIGHT of ISU MBB, was that from 1955-1967?  Or the King/Hodges Era?   Or Birch Bayh, SR?
> 
> Some of those same old f***ers bitch about Lansing's Div II wins -- guess what; MOST of Klueh's wins were Div II wins as well.
> 
> I place them next to each other because they are currently #1 and #2 in "all-time wins,"   when Curt Mallory sprints past Wally Marks for the #2 position behind Dennis Raetz, I'll then compare Mallory and Raetz in "all-time wins"



This is your reply?  Talking about waxing, old fxckers, and old fxckers bitching?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Gotta Hav said:


> This is your reply?  Talking about waxing, old fxckers, and old fxckers bitching?




Look at the ISU MBB Program's "Coaching Leaders"

Klueh is #1, Lansing is #2 on the "all-time wins" table

If Wally Marks was # 1 and Lansing was #2, I'd make the same point.

How hard is that to understand?


----------



## bent20

Hooper said:


> If the ISU administration sticks with its small-time, bush league mantra of not paying a coach more than a Provost the list of potential Lansing replacements won’t be that impressive.  Oh, there’ll be plenty of applicants but it’ll be quantity more than quality.  I would wager every other MVC school, or almost every school, pays its basketball coach more than it’s Provost.
> 
> For perspective, Bryan Mullins was an ASSISTANT in our conference when he moved to be HC at his own alma mater SIU.  Not a P5 assistant—a Loyola assistant....and they had to cough up half a million a year to get him.  Dana Ford came to the MVC from the OVC and that cost MSU almost half a mil a year.  How would we get any sort of hot shot P5 assistant or someone in any sort of demand at our level with our budgetary limitations?  Not to mention anyone that can do what Lansing has.  Here in Indy I still have bragging rights over all the IU and Butler alums.   And I will for a while because both programs are scared to play a Lansing-coached team.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for, Lansing haters.



Done what Lansing has? You mean have the worst record in the conference over the last four years? Not so convinced we can't find someone thirsty for a HC gig who can't do better than that. Be careful what you wish for? When you're losing most seasons and verily treading water the others, who cares if you take a chance and get worse?


----------



## Hooper

bent20 said:


> who cares if you take a chance and get worse?



If that’s your plan and what you look for in your leadership then good on you.  Just remember every one of Clink’s hires thus far except swimming (which already had a winning roster) have overall records way, way worse than Lansing’s.  But, yeah, let’s fire him and take a chance.  SMH.


----------



## bent20

Hooper said:


> If that’s your plan and what you look for in your leadership then good on you.  Just remember every one of Clink’s hires thus far except swimming (which already had a winning roster) have overall records way, way worse than Lansing’s.  But, yeah, let’s fire him and take a chance.  SMH.



I don't know. I'm looking at the football team, which gets a new coach and promptly goes winless each time then gradually gets better. Still haven't gotten much better than the equivalent of what Lansing does most years, but if that's all we're asking for, to lose for five straight seasons overall and four in conference and then be on pace to verily, maybe eek out a winning season, why even bother having sports teams at all? I'd still like to see Lansing's teams turn it around and finish strong this year and maybe finally, somehow have a 20-plus win season next year, but seems like we'd be fools to place a lot of faith in that. Maybe you get lucky and hire a new coach who will do a great job (and be gone in two to three years), but how is that not a gamble worth taking at this point when all you stand a chance to lose is being mediocre??? In all seriousness, I don't at all get the argument of be careful what you wish for. Being .500 or 10 games below .500 is all the same to me - Shitty!


----------



## Gotta Hav

4Q_iu said:


> Look at the ISU MBB Program's "Coaching Leaders"
> 
> Klueh is #1, Lansing is #2 on the "all-time wins" table
> 
> If Wally Marks was # 1 and Lansing was #2, I'd make the same point.
> 
> How hard is that to understand?



You're like every Optometrist that I've ever had.  1 or 2. What? 2 or 1, 1 or 2.  Geez!  How about A or B for once! 

I take your point dear, I follow the who is #1 and who is #2 in all time wins.

However, you've tied wins to Lansing's job, not just how close he is to tying or passing Klueh for most games won.

Did you not say in Post #122, "What happens if he passes Klueh in the 2nd half of the 2020-21 Valley schedule... is he still shown the door? *Given a modest* *(2-yr) extension*?"    

Also, still wonderin' about all your weird references to WAXING.  Gotta be one of the strangest things ever written on here...


----------



## 4Q_iu

Gotta Hav said:


> You're like every Optometrist that I've ever had.  1 or 2. What? 2 or 1, 1 or 2.  Geez!  How about A or B for once!
> 
> I take your point dear, I follow the who is #1 and who is #2 in all time wins.
> 
> However, you've tied wins to Lansing's job, not just how close he is to tying or passing Klueh for most games won.
> 
> Did you not say in Post #122, "What happens if he passes Klueh in the 2nd half of the 2020-21 Valley schedule... is he still shown the door? *Given a modest* *(2-yr) extension*?"
> 
> Also, still wonderin' about all your weird references to WAXING.  Gotta be one of the strangest things ever written on here...




Thanks for comparing me to an Optometrist, far worse things in life to be than an O.D.

I have never tied Lansing's job to wins; I've merely pointed out that he could very well pass Klueh for the overall wins record in the program (one of the oldest programs in the Nation). 

However IF he passes Klueh next season; what will the admin do?   Will his status as the "best coach" (wins) play a role, if any, in the decision to keep him beyond 2021?   I've heard it could but I've also heard he's gone regardless.

  The folks who will MAKE decision may lurk on this board but I've yet to read a post from Dr. Curtis or the A.D.

As to the factors that may/could come into play; SycState of Mind pointed them out in another post, but in summary, Lansing has the following IN his favor:

- Factor in the money -- rumors, lore, etc indicate he brings in $$ to the Athl Department.  Plus, after 2020-2021, there isn't a cost in going in a new direction.
- Factor in his overall resume -- arguably the "best" HC at State in the Valley era.
- Factor in the people in a position to make things better -- we have no"heir apparent" on the bench, waiting in the wings.  We are NOT the S.A. Spurs circa 1996-97 when then GM Gregg Popovich fired Bob Hill, named himself the HC - the rest is history.
- Factor in the donors -- see "Factor in the money"
- Factor in running a clean program -- Fairly apparent, with the exception of Brenton Scott's idiocy in trying to duck an alcohol | ganja-induced"driving incident,"  I can't think of any high crimes and/or misdemeanors from the MBB program.

The University can do what ever they chose to do -- my annual Athl Depart donation will not change; it's not large enough to be missed.


----------



## niklz62

4Q_iu said:


> So, your best case scenario is we "re-boot" every 3-4 years...  Hmmm, when did we do that?
> 
> IIRC, from 1975 through 1997.





Gotta Hav said:


> Oh gawd, I'm with you.  I'll just hate winning the MVC regular season Championship in back-to-back years, and winning three or five games in the NCAA tournament.   It will just be awful.



Yes, I say "best case scenario" and we all assume we will pump out a perennial multi-coach powerhouse.

how about instead I add on the "likely scenario" that we end up what we have done since one guy graduated and pump out a bunch of average to below average teams with a couple winners thrown in, who I might add, weren't even enough for the haters to grant Lansing some slack.

You get what you pay for and right now we are getting what we pay for in most of our sports.

Edit:  And whoever was talking about a former president saying he wouldnt pay a coach more than they pay a Provost was on point.  I assume whoever said that didnt rise through the ranks taking the Economics route.  I hope he is paying the lead engineers on the HHS and HC projects more than he pays a Provost.


----------



## bent20

niklz62 said:


> Yes, I say "best case scenario" and we all assume we will pump out a perennial multi-coach powerhouse.
> 
> how about instead I add on the "likely scenario" that we end up what we have done since one guy graduated and pump out a bunch of average to below average teams with a couple winners thrown in, who I might add, weren't even enough for the haters to grant Lansing some slack.
> 
> *You get what you pay for and right now we are getting what we pay for in most of our sports.*
> 
> Edit:  And whoever was talking about a former president saying he wouldnt pay a coach more than they pay a Provost was on point.  I assume whoever said that didnt rise through the ranks taking the Economics route.  I hope he is paying the lead engineers on the HHS and HC projects more than he pays a Provost.



Which begs the question that has also been asked here numerous times: Why aren't we dropping down to a conference where we can be more competitive? I think for most fans it comes down to pride, which is a silly reason.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

niklz62 said:


> Yes, I say "best case scenario" and we all assume we will pump out a perennial multi-coach powerhouse.
> 
> how about instead I add on the "likely scenario" that we end up what we have done since one guy graduated and pump out a bunch of average to below average teams with a couple winners thrown in, who I might add, weren't even enough for the haters to grant Lansing some slack.
> 
> You get what you pay for and right now we are getting what we pay for in most of our sports.
> 
> Edit:  And whoever was talking about a former president saying he wouldnt pay a coach more than they pay a Provost was on point.  I assume whoever said that didnt rise through the ranks taking the Economics route.  I hope he is paying the lead engineers on the HHS and HC projects more than he pays a Provost.



College athletics is marketing.  How do you want to market your school?  Like it or not, a successful sports program will increase applications.  ISU doesn't invest in marketing anyway, and I doubt you could convince anyone in administration that having a great athletic program would make the "pie" bigger for the entire school.  Butler, Wichita State, Creighton and Gonzaga all figured it out.  And for it to be a good move, you don't have to have success on the level that those teams do.  But it couldn't hurt.

You have to spend money to make money.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> College athletics is marketing.  How do you want to market your school?  Like it or not, a successful sports program will increase applications.  ISU doesn't invest in marketing anyway, and I doubt you could convince anyone in administration that having a great athletic program would make the "pie" bigger for the entire school.  Butler, Wichita State, Creighton and Gonzaga all figured it out.  And for it to be a good move, you don't have to have success on the level that those teams do.  But it couldn't hurt.
> 
> You have to spend money to make money.



They do, but they spend it on stupid billboards that nobody looks at and radio advertising. Guess who doesn't listen to terrestrial radio? The students you're trying to market to. Just more archaic through processes still prevalent at State.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> They do, but they spend it on stupid billboards that nobody looks at and radio advertising. Guess who doesn't listen to terrestrial radio? The students you're trying to market to. Just more archaic through processes still prevalent at State.



Don't forget my favorite - the big banner they draped across the side of the parking garage at the Fashion Mall in Carmel.  :lol:


----------



## niklz62

IndyTreeFan said:


> Don't forget my favorite - the big banner they draped across the side of the parking garage at the Fashion Mall in Carmel.  :lol:



I think cool graphics on the side of a new stadium on 3rd st would be good advertising.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Gotta Hav said:


> You're like every Optometrist that I've ever had.  1 or 2. What? 2 or 1, 1 or 2.  Geez!  How about A or B for once!
> 
> I take your point dear, I follow the who is #1 and who is #2 in all time wins.
> 
> However, you've tied wins to Lansing's job, not just how close he is to tying or passing Klueh for most games won.
> 
> Did you not say in Post #122, "What happens if he passes Klueh in the 2nd half of the 2020-21 Valley schedule... is he still shown the door? *Given a modest* *(2-yr) extension*?"
> 
> Also, still wonderin' about all your weird references to WAXING.  Gotta be one of the strangest things ever written on here...




Arad McCutchan has approximately 220 wins in the now defunct Indiana Collegiate Conference
Tony Hinkle is # 2 with 154
Duane Klueh is # 3 with 71
Jim Hinga is #4 with 65

I know Klueh is still in Terre Haute, is Hinga still alive?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Using the words of SSOM "win a road game" great one.


----------



## niklz62

HOOPSFAN said:


> Using the words of SSOM "win a road game" great one.



I think they could go with a 1 year extension and see how things play out the rest of the season


----------



## bent20

niklz62 said:


> I think they could go with a 1 year extension and see how things play out the rest of the season



As in one-extension beyond next year at the end of this season? Interesting thought because it's going to be challenging for Lansing to recruit, I would think, going into next year. But how long do we string things along?


----------



## Sycamorefan96

If we can finish with a winning overall record and a winning conference record at the end of the season I would be fine with giving him a 1 year extension.


----------



## niklz62

bent20 said:


> As in one-extension beyond next year at the end of this season? Interesting thought because it's going to be challenging for Lansing to recruit, I would think, going into next year. But how long do we string things along?



I was just kidding. Just starting crap after an unheard road win at MSU


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> As in one-extension beyond next year at the end of this season? Interesting thought because *it's going to be challenging for Lansing to recruit,* I would think, going into next year. But how long do we string things along?



biggest reason Prettyman provided that 5-year rollover was to make it easier to recruit, was it not?

best reason to keep a job, win

Congrats on a tough road win; only the 5th win in Springfield -- on to Chicago!


----------



## niklz62

4Q_iu said:


> biggest reason Prettyman provided that 5-year rollover was to make it easier to recruit, was it not?
> 
> best reason to keep a job, win
> 
> Congrats on a tough road win; only the 5th win in Springfield -- on to Chicago!



it could have been to get a 4 year buyout when he went somewhere else?


----------



## bent20

niklz62 said:


> I was just kidding. Just starting crap after an unheard road win at MSU



It's a worthwhile question to ponder though.


----------



## Bob Evans

I was just reviewing the comments on this thread. The toxic garbage being directed at a coach of a team that had just won 10 of 12 games is unbelievable. There have been ISU coaches who would need around 2 seasons to win the 13 ISU has so far with plenty more to play. It occurred to me that this site is filled with people who are pretending to be ISU fans. Real fans would love the people they have and be sad any time one left, coach or player. I am very happy with this season so far and love the team and its coaches. Are they going to be undefeated, which is what it sounds like must happen for you all to be happy? Get real. I used to visit this site nearly every day. I rarely come this site now because of all the negativity from people who call themselves fans. It disgusts me.


----------



## region rat

Bob Evans said:


> I was just reviewing the comments on this thread. The toxic garbage being directed at a coach of a team that had just won 10 of 12 games is unbelievable. There have been ISU coaches who would need around 2 seasons to win the 13 ISU has so far with plenty more to play. It occurred to me that this site is filled with people who are pretending to be ISU fans. Real fans would love the people they have and be sad any time one left, coach or player. I am very happy with this season so far and love the team and its coaches. Are they going to be undefeated, which is what it sounds like must happen for you all to be happy? Get real. I used to visit this site nearly every day. I rarely come this site now because of all the negativity from people who call themselves fans. It disgusts me.



Sad to say you expressed my feelings.  Too many people on this site believe they know basketball or what ever sport when they don’t.  Some giant egos.


----------



## niklz62

Bob Evans said:


> I was just reviewing the comments on this thread. The toxic garbage being directed at a coach of a team that had just won 10 of 12 games is unbelievable. There have been ISU coaches who would need around 2 seasons to win the 13 ISU has so far with plenty more to play. It occurred to me that this site is filled with people who are pretending to be ISU fans. Real fans would love the people they have and be sad any time one left, coach or player. I am very happy with this season so far and love the team and its coaches. Are they going to be undefeated, which is what it sounds like must happen for you all to be happy? Get real. I used to visit this site nearly every day. I rarely come this site now because of all the negativity from people who call themselves fans. It disgusts me.



Id say you are seeing a few people post a large number of posts.  

If you want to see what could happen if a couple people got their wish, take at look at what's going on at YSU right now with their football job.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

At least people on here care.  One way or another...

I'm convinced that no one in upper administration at ISU cares at all (or ever has).  And therein lies all our problems.


----------



## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> At least people on here care.  One way or another...
> 
> I'm convinced that no one in upper administration at ISU cares at all (or ever has).  And therein lies all our problems.




Disagree with your contention; I'd venture they're exceedingly pragmatic about academics, athletics and funding.

I've met ISU alumni from the mid-|late-60s; some of they felt ISU should have NEVER moved to Div I, specifically because of the necessary $$ for Div I vs. Div II


----------



## niklz62

Man, I’m feeling like by the end of the season Lansing is gonna look like he is in a ZZ Top cover band during his contract extension talks


----------



## meistro

Hoopsfan can't be happy with the way this season is trending.


----------



## OX 92

I would like to see a Feb road win.  That would be fun.


----------



## meistro

OX 92 said:


> I would like to see a Feb road win.  That would be fun.



Didn't we have one last Saturday?


----------



## 4Q_iu

meistro said:


> Didn't we have one last Saturday?




most likely it doesn't "count," because it already happened...


----------



## Ohio Sycamore

I can understand why some people want to fire Coach Lansing, I don't agree, but I get it.  But have you looked at Sherard's other hires? He isn't exactly knocking his hires out of the park. The best hire he has made is football and I think that hire is TBD at best. Don't get me wrong, I think we have wasted some talent and should have finished better than we have the last few years, but at least we know this program will be competitive in most games and is on the upswing. Plus, players leave after coaching changes. I would hate to see Jake, Tre, or even Reke leave due to a coaching change. That sets us back a few years.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I would give Clink a D+ so far. Continuing to schedule D2 schools in football after missing the playoffs because of it, just shows that he doesn't understand the big picture in my opinion.


----------



## Hooper

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I would give Clink a D+ so far. Continuing to schedule D2 schools in football after missing the playoffs because of it, just shows that he doesn't understand the big picture in my opinion.



Not defending or advocating for Clink but doesn’t Mallory schedule?  Does he have to run it by Clink?  To a certain extent they probably have to work together regarding how much they can pay visiting OOC teams but I’m guessing the Lindenwood addition, and scheduling in general, is/was Mallory’s call and not Clink’s...but I don’t know for sure.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Mallory was Clink's hire, and Clink is his boss. If I was the AD I would make it clear that D2 schools are not allowed for football. I mean what exactly is Clinkscales job? Surely he does more than make a hire every once in a while? Are we just paying him to eat Cheetos at his desk the rest of the time? I mean come on.

It doesn't say much for our athletic department when we are allowing our football coach to schedule games that do not count just to pad his record. If we aren't going to give ourselves a chance to make the playoffs then it is time to drop to the Pioneer League. I mean seriously why are we spending 4 million dollars when we could get the same result for a million? I was actually kind of being generous with the D+ grade.


----------



## Hooper

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Mallory was Clink's hire, and Clink is his boss. If I was the AD I would make it clear that D2 schools are not allowed for football. I mean what exactly is Clinkscales job? Surely he does more than make a hire every once in a while? Are we just paying him to eat Cheetos at his desk the rest of the time? I mean come on.
> 
> It doesn't say much for our athletic department when we are allowing our football coach to schedule games that do not count just to pad his record. If we aren't going to give ourselves a chance to make the playoffs then it is time to drop to the Pioneer League. I mean seriously why are we spending 4 million dollars when we could get the same result for a million? I was actually kind of being generous with the D+ grade.



I get it.  And I partially agree with you.  One main issue re: playoffs is we clearly have an FCS Championship Committee that is anti-MVFC.  We should have made it in 2018 and SIU should have made it in 2019.  I am not sure who is on the 2020 committee right now, but it’s clear that instead of a good MVFC season getting you in, you now have to have a great one.  It’ll be a tall order for us this year but doable.

Anyhow, back to this thread, if we can keep this momentum in b-ball, I’ll ask Boda to close this thread and start a “Lansing Contract Extension Terms” thread to discuss how we’re going to keep him.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> I get it.  And I partially agree with you.  One main issue re: playoffs is we clearly have an FCS Championship Committee that is anti-MVFC.  We should have made it in 2018 and SIU should have made it in 2019.  I am not sure who is on the 2020 committee right now, but it’s clear that instead of a good MVFC season getting you in, you now have to have a great one.  It’ll be a tall order for us this year but doable.
> 
> Anyhow, back to this thread, if we can keep this momentum in b-ball, I’ll ask Boda to close this thread and start a “Lansing Contract Extension Terms” thread to discuss how we’re going to keep him.



You sure are easy HOOPER. ONE decent season (so far) and you are ready to give him the farm. What about objectively evaluating the last five years?


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> You sure are easy HOOPER. ONE decent season (so far) and you are ready to give him the farm. What about objectively evaluating the last five years?



In the Athletic article, the story notes that other schools are using the rollover termination and the lack of an extension against us in recruiting.  So if you are an ISU fan and want us to have any sort of edge in recruiting an extension is needed—badly.  How does it look if a coach only has one year left on his deal?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> In the Athletic article, the story notes that other schools are using the rollover termination and the lack of an extension against us in recruiting.  So if you are an ISU fan and want us to have any sort of edge in recruiting an extension is needed—badly.  How does it look if a coach only has one year left on his deal?



Of course they use it; no doubt they used Waltman's age and health against him as well.

Don Mattingly told the Dodgers GM and/or ownership that a multi-year deal is critical for a manager; that without one, certain players will simply "wait you out,"  it also provides stability for the players who want to be there

ISU's problem, there are few (willing) deep-pocketed supporters who will write a buy-out check if/when necessary.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> You sure are easy HOOPER. ONE decent season (so far) and you are ready to give him the farm. What about objectively evaluating the last five years?



its more appropriate to evaluate his entire career, not just the last five but everyone gets it, you simply want him gone.

a learned eye knows the truth


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Great job tonight Lansing .... give that man a raise and a 10 year auto roll-over ......... lol. Deja vu all over again. How many times have we seen this .500 coach deliver this kind of a scenario and usually against a bottom feeder. The mighty Redbirds were 2-9 in the MVC and 7-16 overall. But wait, we probably haven't seen nuthin' yet .... still have to play AT EVANSVILLE and the Aces have not won a Valley game yet ... to be continued.


----------



## Jackson0330

HOOPSFAN said:


> Great job tonight Lansing .... give that man a raise and a 10 year auto roll-over ......... lol. Deja vu all over again. How many times have we seen this .500 coach deliver this kind of a scenario and usually against a bottom feeder. The mighty Redbirds were 2-9 in the MVC and 7-16 overall. But wait, we probably haven't seen nuthin' yet .... still have to play AT EVANSVILLE and the Aces have not won a Valley game yet ... to be continued.



I’m with ya’ Brutha.  For every one step forward there’s been two steps back.  Loyola was all for not.  Excitement didn’t last long. Fools Gold eventually melts away.  How naive could I be.  It truly sucks being a fan, but I hold out hope that they can contend.


----------



## Bluethunder

HOOPSFAN said:


> Great job tonight Lansing .... give that man a raise and a 10 year auto roll-over ......... lol. Deja vu all over again. How many times have we seen this .500 coach deliver this kind of a scenario and usually against a bottom feeder. The mighty Redbirds were 2-9 in the MVC and 7-16 overall. But wait, we probably haven't seen nuthin' yet .... still have to play AT EVANSVILLE and the Aces have not won a Valley game yet ... to be continued.



Still waiting you to post the screen shot of your contribution to the Athletic Department to buy out Lansing.  Or are you like so many others in this country and you just expect someone else to pay for your wants and needs.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Bluethunder said:


> Still waiting you to post the screen shot of your contribution to the Athletic Department to buy out Lansing.  Or are you like so many others in this country and you just expect someone else to pay for your wants and needs.



I didn't hire him and I will not pay to fire him. For the future of the basketball program those in charge need to see the light. Others like yourself that are content with winning a game or two more than or a game or two less than a .500 season every damned year are a part of the problem with the limited expectations at ISU.


----------



## Bluethunder

HOOPSFAN said:


> I didn't hire him and I will not pay to fire him. For the future of the basketball program those in charge need to see the light. Others like yourself that are content with winning a game or two more than or a game or two less than a .500 season every damned year are a part of the problem with the limited expectations at ISU.



So you like to piss and moan but not actually get off the couch to do something.  Got it.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Bluethunder said:


> So you like to piss and moan but not actually get off the couch to do something.  Got it.



Why don't you give him a raise smart guy? You seem to be the guy on the couch doing nothing and content with the status quo.


----------



## niklz62

HOOPSFAN said:


> I didn't hire him and I will not pay to fire him. For the future of the basketball program those in charge need to see the light. Others like yourself that are content with winning a game or two more than or a game or two less than a .500 season every damned year are a part of the problem with the limited expectations at ISU.



Dont look at it as paying to fire him, look at it as the cost to get the coach you want.


----------



## niklz62

Jackson0330 said:


> I’m with ya’ Brutha.  For every one step forward there’s been two steps back.  Loyola was all for not.  Excitement didn’t last long. Fools Gold eventually melts away.  How naive could I be.  It truly sucks being a fan, but I hold out hope that they can contend.



I dont see how this is 1 step forward and 2 steps back.  id call it 4 steps forward and 1 step back.  and zero of these wins or losses mean shit getting us in the NCAA tournament unless it is getting us out of thursday at the MVC


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> I didn't hire him and I will not pay to fire him. For the future of the basketball program those in charge need to see the light. Others like yourself that are content with winning a game or two more than or a game or two less than a .500 season every damned year are a part of the problem with the limited expectations at ISU.




Either call Clinkscales with your cashier's check to buyout Lansing's contract at the end of the season or shut the hell up -- it's apparent to everyone but you, that Lansing's contract will be met; a decision on his future will occur after this season, if not next season is completed.

and until our athletic budget increases 100-fold, anyone else we hire will face the same budget issues as Lansing and his staff


----------



## Hooper

4Q_iu said:


> Either call Clinkscales with your cashier's check to buyout Lansing's contract at the end of the season or shut the hell up -- it's apparent to everyone but you, that Lansing's contract will be met; a decision on his future will occur after this season, if not next season is completed.
> 
> and until our athletic budget increases 100-fold, anyone else we hire will face the same budget issues as Lansing and his staff



I dream of a day when ISU does what Kill did at SIU.  I want Lansing to get an extension, others want him fired.  Either way, when talking money, I want Clink, McKee, and Curtis to call a presser and repeat after Kill:


_We're going to be a Division I program. We're not going to be a Division II program, we're not going to act like we're a IAA program, we're not going to act like we're going to get this coach for the lowest money. We've worked very hard at raising money and we're going to go out and compete. What that level of money is I can't tell you. I know what the market value is in the Valley. I even know some of the private school's money. I think if you look at me since I've been here, I don't think I've pulled any punches with what I've done. We're not going to do anything less with the basketball program and we'll do more because the bottom line is, we're the front porch of the University and we have to win at basketball and put 6-to-8,000 in (SIU Arena). I want it full. To get it full you gotta win. I can't put a dollar figure on it, but we will compete._


Amen, Jerry.  Amen.

https://siusalukis.com/news/2019/3/...rence-to-discuss-mens-basketball-program.aspx


----------



## niklz62

....And Jerry's gone


----------



## Hooper

niklz62 said:


> ....And Jerry's gone



Yep.  He wasn't there long, but he Killed it while he was there.  Good hires, raised a bunch of money, and raised the athletic budget.


----------



## niklz62

Hooper said:


> Yep.  He wasn't there long, but he Killed it while he was there.  Good hires, raised a bunch of money, and raised the athletic budget.



In his defense he may have noticed that Illinois is probably going to have to rescind its statehood when it goes insolvent and go back to being a territory.  I assume all of the state funded universities that dont start with "University of" will shut down


----------



## 4Q_iu

niklz62 said:


> In his defense he may have noticed that Illinois is probably going to have to rescind its statehood when it goes insolvent and go back to being a territory.  I assume all of the state funded universities that dont start with "University of" will shut down




As States cannot declare bankruptcy, illinois ( and others ) will continue to stumble along and at some point, dig their way out of the holes they've dug

I think a LOT of states will be facing some similar fates in the not too distant future

If the FLA plan to allow college athletes to get their $$ now, (2-3 years ahead of the Calif plan), a lot of colleges could face a similar scenario

https://www.wtxl.com/news/local-news/florida-lawmakers-debate-if-college-athletes-can-be-paid


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> Either call Clinkscales with your cashier's check to buyout Lansing's contract at the end of the season or shut the hell up -- it's apparent to everyone but you, that Lansing's contract will be met; a decision on his future will occur after this season, if not next season is completed.
> 
> and until our athletic budget increases 100-fold, anyone else we hire will face the same budget issues as Lansing and his staff



You should know by now that I will not shut up so get over yourself. You Lansing fans don't have a clue. Just like him.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> You should know by now that I will not shut up so get over yourself. You Lansing fans don't have a clue. Just like him.





Ive been a fan of most of the ISU coaches, except for Ron Greene; horrible waste of $$ on that salary

You seem to be of the impression your endless bitching is going to change anything, it will not.  IF ISU had the $$$ to buy out his contract, they'd have done so, they haven't, which means they likely don't have it and will simply accept the status quo until the contract ends and will then move on.

You also seem to be of the impression that any coach will be better than Lansing, again, no one knows if that will be the case.

You're delusional if you think simply sacking Lansing will turn the current program into a perennial Top 10 program, that turns away recruits and has to fight off teams willing to pay US to play in Terre Haute.

To paraphrase The Wolf; please, with sugar on top - shut the fuck up


----------



## niklz62

4Q_iu said:


> As States cannot declare bankruptcy, illinois ( and others ) will continue to stumble along and at some point, dig their way out of the holes they've dug



lol,  the law rarely stops the government from doing something


----------



## Bluethunder

HOOPSFAN said:


> Why don't you give him a raise smart guy? You seem to be the guy on the couch doing nothing and content with the status quo.



If I am content, wouldn't that by definition preclude me from acting in any way?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Bluethunder said:


> If I am content, wouldn't that by definition preclude me from acting in any way?



Going to stop arguing with you. Can't argue with a fool.


----------



## swsycamore

I find it ironic that Hoopsfan considers himself the sixth fan.   I am not a Lansing fan but when do the players step up and take some responsibility?  We could beat many teams if we could always play like we did against Loyola, but it is not going to happen.  Why can't we...I don't know.  Last year our leader (Barnes) completely went south on us.  I don't know if it was a head thing or what, but glad to see he doing well this year.  This year, Key starts falling apart.  What gives.  I don't know.  In Saturdays game BARNES and KESSINGER are the only two that looked like they wanted to play. Laravia stunk.  Neese should have been on the bench.  Why in God's name did Christian Williams have so many minutes.  He played out of control most of the game and his turnovers were horrible.  It's time our players step up and act like they want to play to win.


----------



## 4Q_iu

niklz62 said:


> lol,  the law rarely stops the government from doing something




you're correct, illinois is one of the more lawless places in the nation


----------



## HOOPSFAN

swsycamore said:


> I find it ironic that Hoopsfan considers himself the sixth fan.   I am not a Lansing fan but when do the players step up and take some responsibility?  We could beat many teams if we could always play like we did against Loyola, but it is not going to happen.  Why can't we...I don't know.  Last year our leader (Barnes) completely went south on us.  I don't know if it was a head thing or what, but glad to see he doing well this year.  This year, Key starts falling apart.  What gives.  I don't know.  In Saturdays game BARNES and KESSINGER are the only two that looked like they wanted to play. Laravia stunk.  Neese should have been on the bench.  Why in God's name did Christian Williams have so many minutes.  He played out of control most of the game and his turnovers were horrible.  It's time our players step up and act like they want to play to win.



Lansing "loses them" every season. At different times but most usually at this time of the season and it continues through ArchMadness. They stop listening because they apparently get tired of hearing him. All different teams and different players but the same result or maybe better said lack of positive results. Look at the history if you don't care to believe it.


----------



## niklz62

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lansing "loses them" every season. At different times but most usually at this time of the season and it continues through ArchMadness. They stop listening because they apparently get tired of hearing him. All different teams and different players but the same result or maybe better said lack of positive results. *Look at the history if you don't care to believe it*.



well dont look at all of the history. not sure I could say "Every Season"


----------



## HOOPSFAN

niklz62 said:


> well dont look at all of the history. not sure I could say "Every Season"



agreed but more often than not.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

FIRE GREG LANSING!:barf:


----------



## niklz62

HOOPSFAN said:


> FIRE GREG LANSING!:barf:



im in for $7  how much you wanna throw in?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

niklz62 said:


> im in for $7  how much you wanna throw in?



more than he is worth


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> more than he is worth View attachment 1455



I'm sure you'll be wearing your maroon shirt in support of our opponent today.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

meistro said:


> I'm sure you'll be wearing your maroon shirt in support of our opponent today.



Nope, I wish the players the best but they are a ship without a rudder.  Already this season they could have won at least three or four more games than they have and then we are talking respectability.  Lansing is not mentally tough enough and it shows at crunch time in all their losses. He is all talk talk talk but doesn't get it done.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Nope, I wish the players the best but they are a ship without a rudder.  Already this season they could have won at least three or four more games than they have and then we are talking respectability.  Lansing is not mentally tough enough and it shows at crunch time in all their losses. He is all talk talk talk but doesn't get it done.



remind us (again) of your HoF basketball coaching record?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Great job Lansing. Dana Ford comes in and kicks your a$$.

"Lansing is not mentally tough enough and it shows at crunch time in all their losses. He is all talk talk talk but doesn't get it done."


----------



## pbutler218

Yeah. Just when other teams are improving and getting ready for postseason, Lansing's team implodes and "February Collapse" commences. So predictable year after year.


----------



## Daveinth

4Q_iu said:


> remind us (again) of your HoF basketball coaching record?



There is a huge difference in being a HOF HIGH SCHOOL coach and a successful D1 coach. I have been relatively quiet on this subject , because of the damage it does to the overall health of the program be it with prospects or current players . However after what I just watched I want to say yes it is time for a change  of the guard at Indiana State. GL if you care about the program, the university and the City the way you claim you will also realize that you just are not getting the job done . We can make all the excuses we want as far as money  presidents etc. but the facts are  this team has Talent there is no doubt about that but what we are missing is quality coaching . I am sorry you can pay all you want if you can not get the job done it doesn't matter if you are paid $1 or $1,000,000  you do not have the abilities to lead this program . We have gone from 3rd place to play in game in a matter of a week and that is 100% on the coaches . Tyreke is going thru the motions barely . He is not moving with the ball I think that he has been reading too much of his own press and thinks he is better than he really is and that's coaching.If these donors that are holding the university hostage because of GL if they truly care for the school then they will understand . I mean I think we all will agree that if you go to work and consistently under perform you will not be in your job. If we eliminate his D2 wins he has lost more than he has won and has done nothing to benefit the program . Sorry for the Rant after moving to Florida I continue to buy my season tickets even tho I cannot attend so that my grandchildren can continue a family tradition of Sycamore fandom and I am tired of them calling me upset when the sycamores play like this . I am reconsidering my ticket purchase after this year.


----------



## bent20

I don't expect Greg Lansing to be fired, but anyone still supporting him and defending him with silly arguments about his "winning record," I have to question whether your allegiance is to the coach or the university/program. Hovering around .500 every year (and finishing below the last five years) is not entertaining. Lansing teams always seem to give up. This many years of the same old crap isn't the players, it's the coach!


----------



## swsycamore

I think we should drop basketball and use that money for a good bowling team.


----------



## bent20

swsycamore said:


> I think we should drop basketball and use that money for a good bowling team.



I'm getting closer to being fine with just dropping sports period. Why fund mediocrity with taxpayer money?


----------



## Jackson0330

bent20 said:


> I'm getting closer to being fine with just dropping sports period. Why fund mediocrity with taxpayer money?



Title IX really screws programs like State that has 3 to 4 women’s programs that should be dropped. Woman’s basketball drains the athletic fund and would be the first program I’d drop.  Title IX needs to be re-evaluated if a program is to survive.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Daveinth said:


> There is a huge difference in being a HOF HIGH SCHOOL coach and a successful D1 coach.



  Is it your contention that "Hoopsfan" is a HoF High School coach?   interesting, his profile sez he works in construction...




Daveinth said:


> I have been relatively quiet on this subject , because of the damage it does to the overall health of the program be it with prospects or current players . However after what I just watched I want to say yes it is time for a change  of the guard at Indiana State. GL if you care about the program, the university and the City the way you claim you will also realize that you just are not getting the job done . We can make all the excuses we want as far as money  presidents etc. but the facts are  this team has Talent there is no doubt about that but what we are missing is quality coaching . I am sorry you can pay all you want if you can not get the job done it doesn't matter if you are paid $1 or $1,000,000  you do not have the abilities to lead this program . We have gone from 3rd place to play in game in a matter of a week and that is 100% on the coaches . Tyreke is going thru the motions barely . He is not moving with the ball I think that he has been reading too much of his own press and thinks he is better than he really is and that's coaching.If these donors that are holding the university hostage because of GL if they truly care for the school then they will understand . I mean I think we all will agree that if you go to work and consistently under perform you will not be in your job.



Until Lansing is found in bed with either 1) a dead hooker   OR   2) 2+ live goats, I see NO SCENARIO in which he is not coaching in 2020-21, however, I DO agree that the continual speculation on this board CAN, WILL cause damage to the program.    If the university COULD buy out his contract, they most likely would have before this point.

I didn't see Lansing take one ill-advised shot tonight; I did see the Trees take several.  We also had several shots that hit every side of the rim but the net

Does Lansing make curious, strange coaching calls?   Yes
Does the team usually allow one player to absolutely kill them?  Yes, but I see that in several teams.   the Trees could do a MUCH better job of scouting the opposition.




Daveinth said:


> If we eliminate his D2 wins he has lost more than he has won and has done nothing to benefit the program .



Do you deduct every win that Adolph Rupp had vs. countless YMCA and HS's?

Do you deduct Glenn Curtis' wins vs. WW II era military teams?

Do you deduct John Longfellow's and Duane Klueh's wins vs. foreign college/teams?

there are a number of current NCAA Div I coaches with wins vs. NCAA Div II teams

Do you cite Stephanie Alford's years @ Manchester in her career record?

​


Daveinth said:


> Sorry for the Rant after moving to Florida I continue to buy my season tickets even tho I cannot attend so that my grandchildren can continue a family tradition of Sycamore fandom and I am tired of them calling me upset when the sycamores play like this . I am reconsidering my ticket purchase after this year.



Do as you think best.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> I'm getting closer to being fine with just dropping sports period. *Why fund mediocrity with taxpayer money?*




a HELLUVA lot of high schools and colleges would close


----------



## Daveinth

4Q_iu said:


> Is it your contention that "Hoopsfan" is a HoF High School?   interesting, his profile sez he works in construction...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until Lansing is found in bed with either 1) a dead hooker   OR   2) 2+ live goats, I see NO SCENARIO in which he is not coaching in 2020-21, however, I DO agree that the continual speculation on this board CAN, WILL cause damage to the program.    If the university COULD buy out his contract, they most likely would have before this point.
> 
> I didn't see Lansing take one ill-advised shot tonight; I did see the Trees take several.  We also had several shots that hit every side of the rim but the net
> 
> Does Lansing make curious, strange coaching calls?   Yes
> Does the team usually allow one player to absolutely kill them?  Yes, but I see that in several teams.   the Trees could do a MUCH better job of scouting the opposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deduct every win that Adolph Rupp had vs. countless YMCA and HS's?
> 
> Do you deduct Glenn Curtis' wins vs. WW II era military teams?
> 
> Do you deduct John Longfellow's and Duane Klueh's wins vs. foreign college/teams?
> 
> there are a number of current NCAA Div I coaches with wins vs. NCAA Div II teams
> 
> Do you cite Stephanie Alford's years @ Manchester in her career record?
> 
> ​
> 
> Do as you think best.



Hof reference is to the continual references of GL being in the Iowa high school HOF because when I think of high school hoops Iowa is my  first thoughts. Did he take a single shot? No but it is his responsibility to prepare a game plan and make in game adjustments as most coaches would do . Lansing has never shown this ability in his tenure as Head coach . Can you name one time other than a three game period where his team got hot in 2011 that he has brought prestige to the program? Sorry I have not watched the great one be so great and I can count on one hand the number of games that I have not watched in his tenure  . The point in my rant is I have been a season ticket holder since 1990  and I am sure I am not the only person either on here or people in the general public that is reconsidering their commitment to this sinking ship. As to the last point you attempted to make last I read this was a thread about Greg Lansing not any of the others . So go google more arguments you want to use to protect the Titanic of coaching jobs.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Daveinth said:


> Hof reference is to the continual references of GL being in the Iowa high school HOF because when I think of high school hoops Iowa is my  first thoughts. Did he take a single shot? No but it is his responsibility to prepare a game plan and make in game adjustments as most coaches would do . Lansing has never shown this ability in his tenure as Head coach . Can you name one time other than a three game period where his team got hot in 2011 that he has brought prestige to the program? Sorry I have not watched the great one be so great and I can count on one hand the number of games that I have not watched in his tenure  . The point in my rant is I have been a season ticket holder since 1990  and I am sure I am not the only person either on here or people in the general public that is reconsidering their commitment to this sinking ship. As to the last point you attempted to make last I read this was a thread about Greg Lansing not any of the others . So go google more arguments you want to use to protect the Titanic of coaching jobs.





Lansing was inducted into the Iowa HS Athl Association BBall Hall of Fame for his HS playing career, not coaching.
https://www.iahsaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/BasketballHallofFame.pdf

https://gosycamores.com/news/2016/3/12/210797753.aspx

Is Iowa the hotbed of HS BBall that Indiana used to be? No.


Fully agree that Lansing (and staff) and the players can all do a better job.

I think most are resigned to the fact that Lansing isn't going to be fired, it's simply a question of $$$.


Hopefully the team rebounds from these losses and finishes the season strong.

However, IF Lansing is gone for the 2021-22 season; if Clinkscales DOESN'T hit a home run on this hire.  How long is the next coach going to get?  10 years?  5?

Anyone think how bad the program was hurt when we had 5 coaches from 1975-1990?


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> a HELLUVA lot of high schools and colleges would close



High schools have been cutting music and art programs, so why the hell not cut shitty basketball programs, too? It's an absurd comparison - college and high school - but fine. I'm tired of watching ISU be shit at just about every sport. I'm tired of watching ISU fans celebrate Greg Lansing and his verily above .500 coaching record over a decade of coaching. If this is what you celebrate, ditch all of it! All of it!


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> Anyone think how bad the program was hurt when we had 5 coaches from 1975-1990?



How did it benefit from having two coaches coach for 20 years in the past 25? HOW????????????????????????????????????

I'm so fed up with this absurd logic. The program was shit for several years toward the end of Waltman's tenure, and it's been shit toward the end of Lansing's. Keeping them around has done nothing. If we're truly that bad that it can get that much worse, KILL THE PROGRAM!


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I have long defended Greg Lansing and have thought that we should give him until the end of his contract before moving on. I agree with others that our program could be a lot worse, but I think we can all agree that it can be much better. We are heading straight towards Thursday again and barring a miracle we are likely going to be there again this season. We have the talent to not be a Thursday team and it has nothing to do with our budget, market, coaching salary, etc. 

Personally when our arena opens up next season after the renovation is compete I would like to see this program get a fresh start. After going down to Southern Illinois for a game this weekend it is easy to see the excitement of having a new coach that is having success. While Lansing is here we are never going to get that excitement. Finishing 6th or 7th every season is never going to get people in this town excited about coming out to support this program. We have to win. I appreciate the time that Coach Lansing has spent here, but it is just time in my opinion to get a fresh start.

As far as the buyout goes if we could just increase our attendance by 1000 per game next season it would probably pay for his buyout. I almost think we can't afford to keep him around. Our crowds are becoming pathetic. There's really no reason we shouldn't be able to get 5000 per game most seasons. When Odum was here and we were winning our crowds were pretty good. Now everyone is excited when we get 4000 to report-ably show. I saw a Facebook post after the Bradley game posted by ISU boasting about it was our biggest crowd of the year. It's just sad. We're going to have one of the nicest arenas in the MVC and it is only going to be 30% full.

As for the players and recruits we may or may not lose. I have heard this excuse and have used it myself. At the end of the day though it doesn't really matter if we are going to be a below average team. I hope we don't lose anyone, but if we do that's just part of it. 

I would also like to see us increase our basketball budget if we hire someone new to at least $2.5 million. If we have to take 500k from the football budget to make it happen then so be it. There's really no reason for us to spend over 4 million on football and be way behind everyone else in the MVC in basketball.  Not sure what our budget is right now, but last I checked it was below 2 million, while most schools in our conference were spending 2.5-3 million. I'm also about as pro FCS football as you will find, but our basketball program needs to be funded at a competitive level. Even though I have endorsed us moving to the OVC in the past, I would honestly prefer us to just stay in the MVC. I just want us to do it right and I am sick of losing and being mediocre in everything.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> High schools have been cutting music and art programs, so why the hell not cut shitty basketball programs, too? It's an absurd comparison - college and high school - but fine. I'm tired of watching ISU be shit at just about every sport. I'm tired of watching ISU fans celebrate Greg Lansing and his verily above .500 coaching record over a decade of coaching. If this is what you celebrate, ditch all of it! All of it!




I didn't mean cut music, art or sports at high schools; I meant CLOSE the SCHOOL.


I suppose ISU could shutter the entire intercollegiate sports program; it would be an "older Ivy Tech-like" college, no?


You're tired of ISU celebrating Lansing...    ok, who SHOULD they celebrate? 

Curt Mallory is 11-22 (.333)
Vicky Hall is 15-40 (.273)


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I honestly get sick of hearing about women's basketball. Outside of the 200 people that show up to watch it, no one cares about it. If we won 20+ games a year in men's basketball and only won 2 games in WBB I would be perfectly happy. Football, MBB, and baseball are the three sports we should be focused on. Nothing else really matters and we should be spending the bare minimum on those other sports.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> How did it benefit from having two coaches coach for 20 years in the past 25? HOW????????????????????????????????????
> 
> I'm so fed up with this absurd logic. The program was shit for several years toward the end of Waltman's tenure, and it's been shit toward the end of Lansing's. Keeping them around has done nothing. If we're truly that bad that it can get that much worse, KILL THE PROGRAM!




Trees have had 4 winning seasons in past 10, they were effectively .500 for the 2014-15, 2015-16 and 2018-19 seasons; as of know they could be at .500 this season.  2016-17 was a bad year, 2017-18 was a slight improvement.

Have watched Ron Greene (31-82) run the program in the ground, I guess I willing to wait and see if Lansing hangs up a single-digit win season, Greene had three, Locke had two so I'll be a bit more patient.


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> I didn't mean cut music, art or sports at high schools; I meant CLOSE the SCHOOL.
> 
> 
> I suppose ISU could shutter the entire intercollegiate sports program; it would be an "older Ivy Tech-like" college, no?
> 
> 
> You're tired of ISU celebrating Lansing...    ok, who SHOULD they celebrate?
> 
> Curt Mallory is 11-22 (.333)
> Vicky Hall is 15-40 (.273)



Last season's baseball team and sadly, that's pretty much it. I've said this for a long time on this board, but we need to raise our expectations. If sneaking above .500 every few seasons, not even every two or three, is the best we can hope for then what the hell are we doing?


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> Last season's baseball team and sadly, that's pretty much it. I've said this for a long time on this board, but we need to raise our expectations. If sneaking above .500 every few seasons, not even every two or three, is the best we can hope for then what the hell are we doing?




I am all for raising expectations, just as I am all for raising MORE MONEY.

Far, FAR too many fans sit around bitching about how bad the teams are without wanting to help to anything to make the program better.


Again, living at ISU during the DARK, BLEAK Ron Greene Era; Lansing will have to do far worse than he's been doing.


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> I am all for raising expectations, just as I am all for raising MORE MONEY.
> 
> Far, FAR too many fans sit around bitching about how bad the teams are without wanting to help to anything to make the program better.
> 
> 
> Again, living at ISU during the DARK, BLEAK Ron Greene Era; Lansing will have to do far worse than he's been doing.



That's just not going to happen with the current stay-the-course, ambitionless approach. No leadership, no passion, means no money. Give fans a reason to consider donating. Right now, I don't at all trust this university to make wise decisions with the money I give them.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> That's just not going to happen with the current stay-the-course, ambitionless approach. No leadership, no passion, means no money. Give fans a reason to consider donating. Right now, I don't at all trust this university to make wise decisions with the money I give them.




the "current stay-the-course, ambitionless approach," to MBB or the University's mission?


it's a vicious cycle...  the "I ain't giving those damn bums a nickel because the suck at what they do..."

"Why don't we raise our budget? The idiots in charge don't know what they're doing."


I'm comfortable in donating what I donate; 95% of all of my donations go to the University's mission - Not the athletic department.
​


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> Lansing was inducted into the Iowa HS Athl Association BBall Hall of Fame for his HS playing career, not coaching.
> https://www.iahsaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/BasketballHallofFame.pdf
> 
> https://gosycamores.com/news/2016/3/12/210797753.aspx
> 
> Is Iowa the hotbed of HS BBall that Indiana used to be? No.
> 
> 
> Fully agree that Lansing (and staff) and the players can all do a better job.
> 
> I think most are resigned to the fact that Lansing isn't going to be fired, it's simply a question of $$$.
> 
> 
> Hopefully the team rebounds from these losses and finishes the season strong.
> 
> However, IF Lansing is gone for the 2021-22 season; if Clinkscales DOESN'T hit a home run on this hire.  How long is the next coach going to get?  10 years?  5?
> 
> Anyone think how bad the program was hurt when we had 5 coaches from 1975-1990?



How about a settlement? Give him a gold watch and a "been nice knowing you" as he scoots out the door.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jackson0330 said:


> Title IX really screws programs like State that has 3 to 4 women’s programs that should be dropped. Woman’s basketball drains the athletic fund and would be the first program I’d drop.  Title IX needs to be re-evaluated if a program is to survive.



Title IX isn't going anywhere.

_The following is the original text as written and signed into law by President Richard Nixon in 1972: _​_No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

_
The real issue is working with our current or higher budget to get better​


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I will be surprised if we don't end up losing 3 of our last 4 games (or 6 of our last 7). You can mark UNI and SIU as for sure losses, and Evansville will probably end up being a loss. I slept on it and still feel the same way. Barring a run to the championship game it's time to move on. Yesterday was the biggest game of the year for us. If we won we probably would have avoided Thursday, and this team just came out completely flat. The refs didn't help, but Lansing once again did nothing and just allowed it to happen. At one point in the second half we were down by 11 and had 3 guys on the court that had not scored. The two that had scored had a combined 12 points. Yesterday was just the tipping point for me. I am so tired of watching this nonsense year after year. Just a little over a week ago at halftime I commented on the Illinois State thread about how important winning that game was for us or we might be Thursday bound. No one believed me, but unfortunately I have seen this show too many times. It's just so predictable.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

From the Missouri State message board:  

BearsCountry
Posted on 16 hrs, , User Since 170 months ago, User Post Count: 2,626
16 hrs
170 months
2,626
douglasdmb said... (original post)Can't help but wonder if this was the last time we've faced Lansing as the head coach at Indiana St.

show more
We complain about our money situation but Indiana State is worst.

Hope they are right .........


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> From the Missouri State message board:
> 
> BearsCountry
> Posted on 16 hrs, , User Since 170 months ago, User Post Count: 2,626
> 16 hrs
> 170 months
> 2,626
> douglasdmb said... (original post)Can't help but wonder if this was the last time we've faced Lansing as the head coach at Indiana St.
> 
> show more
> We complain about our money situation but Indiana State is worst.
> 
> Hope they are right .........



Well the there's the fact somebody doesn't know how to use worse and worst.


----------



## shootingsycamore

Here are some figures that illustrate the divide in the size of the Foundations of the public institutions in the MVC, both football and basketball. Steve Brown, who used to be the VP for Advancement at Indiana State is the President of the Univ of South Dakota Foundation. Normally Foundations "Gift Off" between 3-5% annually to support the institution. The figures amplify the efforts and successes of the respective Advancement Team(s).

University/                            Endowment

North Dakota State                        $287M
Univ of South Dakota                     $268M
Youngstown State                         $225M
Southern Illinois                            $193M
Illinois State                                  $172M
Northern Iowa                               $156M
Missouri State                               $141M
Indiana State                                  $74M
Western Illinois                               $73M

This information is from the website "Guidestar" and represents the 2018 IRS 990 filings


----------



## landrus13

I don't post on here much anymore but I'm baffled to see that Lansing still has supporters after the last 4-5 seasons. It's been nothing but losing. Every year towards the end he wins a game they shouldn't and then ISU falls apart completely and finds itself in the play-in games in Arch Madness and loses the first game. It's ridiculous. People on here claim they want to see ISU win consistently but continue to back a lame head coach. I've been to multiple games and all you hear in the stands is people bitching about Lansing and his poor coaching. I've heard people say they won't be back until he's gone. And one of them is a season ticket holder. I've said it on here and I will continue to say it; Lansing should be gone. ISU won't win consistently until he is. I'll gladly be there to pack his bags and drive him to the airport.


----------



## Buckhorn

Sunday's attendance was just under 4k and ISU had not lost a game @ home this season. What's that say about the CONFIDENCE & SUPPORT of Lansing by the University/Community?

The lead sentence in the following Springfield, MO game writeup pretty much says it all about GL's teams over the past decade in February...*a FAILURE to get better!*

https://www.news-leader.com/story/s...ears-beat-indiana-state-sycamores/4780069002/

Golden's "Musing" addresses some of these issues:

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/dow...cle_2abdac64-5142-11ea-b066-0b85271f829d.html


----------



## Hooper

I predict many of you will rue the day you called for his firing if the next guy has the same proverbial handcuffs Lansing has had to deal with.  If you want ISU to regularly compete for MVC titles, you should start a “Fire Curtis” or “Fire McKee” thread. They’re in charge of making sure the program has a fighting chance relative to our peers.  Nothing will change long-term unless we do something about our limitations or we get very, very lucky... and our AD has not had much luck hiring statistical winners thus far.

If Lansing goes the new guy will have to raise money like Lansing and embrace Terre Haute like Lansing.  He’ll need to be able to recruit to Terre Haute.  And do it all for a paltry salary by MVC standards.  Our opponent this upcoming Thursday pays their coach almost $1,000,000 a year and probably more after March.  Let that sink in for a minute.


----------



## Buckhorn

Now Lansing's in "proverbial handcuffs?" :hypnotized: Perhaps the Thurs. UNI game should entitle those in attendance w/ free "proverbial handkerchiefs?"

Btw, it was announced today that UE's 6'9" DeAndre Williams has been cleared for practice and available for Sunday's game v. ISU in E-ville.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> I predict many of you will rue the day you called for his firing if the next guy has the same proverbial handcuffs Lansing has had to deal with.  If you want ISU to regularly compete for MVC titles, you should start a “Fire Curtis” or “Fire McKee” thread. They’re in charge of making sure the program has a fighting chance relative to our peers.  Nothing will change long-term unless we do something about our limitations or we get very, very lucky... and our AD has not had much luck hiring statistical winners thus far.
> 
> If Lansing goes the new guy will have to raise money like Lansing and embrace Terre Haute like Lansing.  He’ll need to be able to recruit to Terre Haute.  And do it all for a paltry salary by MVC standards.  Our opponent this upcoming Thursday pays their coach almost $1,000,000 a year and probably more after March.  Let that sink in for a minute.



Do you think Lansing would be a better coach if he was paid more? Do you also refuse to believe that Stevie Wonder is really blind?


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Do you think Lansing would be a better coach if he was paid more? Do you also refuse to believe that Stevie Wonder is really blind?



Please tell me the school named on your undergraduate degree is not the same as mine.  I shudder at the thought you have a shingle on your wall the same as mine.

I’m talking about overall budget.  In case you haven’t heard, money is very important in D-1 college basketball.


----------



## Buckhorn

Mid-Major Coaching Salaries:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...lDunCieg_YWqWFPeJUq1DYuAjc/edit#gid=863221155


----------



## Jackson0330

4Q_iu said:


> Title IX isn't going anywhere.
> 
> _The following is the original text as written and signed into law by President Richard Nixon in 1972: _​_No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.
> 
> _
> The real issue is working with our current or higher budget to get better​



It’s stifles an athletic programs overall success.  Like Nancy Pelosi and Congress.  It need not exist.  Oh, I forgot the Senate too. With Title IX it’s never been an even playing field.  I watched one woman’s basketball and volleyball game.  It was a comedy act in and among itself.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jackson0330 said:


> It’s stifles an athletic programs overall success.  Like Nancy Pelosi and Congress.  It need not exist.  Oh, I forgot the Senate too. With Title IX it’s never been an even playing field.  I watched one woman’s basketball and volleyball game.  It was a comedy act in and among itself.




Bitch all you want about Title IX, it's not going away.

Doesn't matter if we like it or not, the ONLY solution to walking away from Title IX, is to walk away from all Federal $$, we'd likely also have to transition from a state-funded university to a private institution.

If you think we have $$ problems today; we'd REALLY have $$ problems in "buying" ISU from Indiana and then the inevitable name change...   can't very well keep the word "state" in a private university.

Also good to know you're a monarchist at best, a totalitarian or despotist at worst.


----------



## meistro

I hate to respond to this thread because like I've said before, it does nothing but hurt our program when you start a thread like this in the middle of the season. But since some of you haters are hell bent on running GL out of town, I'll give my 2 cents.

Am I frustrated, hell yes. But, the best option for our program is for GL to be successful. Firing a coach isn't fun and comes with it's own set of problems. The most glaring is that we will be in a rebuilding mode for at least a couple years. We may well lose 2 of the best big men we've seen here in decades. We may lose donors. We may not get somebody that runs a clean program. We may not get somebody that loves the community like GL. I could go on and on. The time to replace him would have been a couple years ago when we didn't have this kind of talent. We all think it's so easy and we have all the answers. Be careful what you wish for.

What really bugs the shit out of me is that most of the worst critics on here won't even pony up to be a supporting member to this site, let alone give money to the program. But yet, you come on here like you're freaking Coach K with the x's and o's and preach about how we should spend all this money the athletic department doesn't have, to fire a coach you don't like. If you want him fired, get out from behind your keyboard and shell out some cash, buy a billboard with your name on it asking for money. And don't give me this shit about how you're not rooting against the kids. You're hoping we lose so you get your way, that's pathetic. I agree Coach needs to do better and I don't think it all has to do with money, but some of you are just over the top. I want to win and win now, I'm not getting any younger. Go Sycamores!


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Everyone expected SIU to finish on Thursday in their "rebuilding year" this season. Look how that is turning out. 

I honestly hate seeing anyone get fired. I hate saying that I want to move on, but after last night's performance I just can't take it anymore. I have defended him the last couple of season's and I truly believed he could turn it around. Thing is if we keep him he will get let go after next season. It is inevitable. There is no reason to have a lame duck head coach that everyone knows won't be around the next season. When the HC opens up next year we need a fresh start. I remember when 4000 was a pathetic crowd not that long ago. Now it is almost a big deal.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Everyone expected SIU to finish on Thursday in their "rebuilding year" this season. Look how that is turning out.
> 
> I honestly hate seeing anyone get fired. I hate saying that I want to move on, but after last night's performance I just can't take it anymore. I have defended him the last couple of season's and I truly believed he could turn it around. Thing is if we keep him he will get let go after next season. It is inevitable. There is no reason to have a lame duck head coach that everyone knows won't be around the next season. When the HC opens up next year we need a fresh start. *I remember when 4000 was a pathetic crowd not that long ago. Now it is almost a big deal*.




When Locke was hired (1989); he was amazed, shocked that ISU was averaging 4,000 fans at that time


----------



## meistro

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Everyone expected SIU to finish on Thursday in their "rebuilding year" this season. Look how that is turning out.
> 
> I honestly hate seeing anyone get fired. I hate saying that I want to move on, but after last night's performance I just can't take it anymore. I have defended him the last couple of season's and I truly believed he could turn it around. Thing is if we keep him he will get let go after next season. It is inevitable. There is no reason to have a lame duck head coach that everyone knows won't be around the next season. When the HC opens up next year we need a fresh start. I remember when 4000 was a pathetic crowd not that long ago. Now it is almost a big deal.



Being a lame duck coach is not good, that's for sure. Crowds are down everywhere, especially when you don't have any "name" schools coming in.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Most coaches get 4 or 5 year deals when they start out. Here's the real question. Does 8-10, 5-13, 8-10, and 7-11 in the MVC satisfy you as a fan? Would those records warrant an extension?

If this was his 5th year and we finish 8-10 or 9-9 do you pull the plug or let it continue? I just don't see it getting better next year and it would almost take a miracle season for him to save his job and get extended.

And yes being a lame Duck coach is not a good thing. He won't be able to recruit next season which will just set our program even more behind. I really think the decision has to be made at the end of this season. Do you give him a couple more years to figure it out or do you move on?


----------



## meistro

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Most coaches get 4 or 5 year deals when they start out. Here's the real question. Does 8-10, 5-13, 8-10, and 7-11 in the MVC satisfy you as a fan? Would those records warrant an extension?
> 
> If this was his 5th year and we finish 8-10 or 9-9 do you pull the plug or let it continue? I just don't see it getting better next year and it would almost take a miracle season for him to save his job and get extended.
> 
> And yes being a lame Duck coach is not a good thing. He won't be able to recruit next season which will just set our program even more behind. I really think the decision has to be made at the end of this season. Do you give him a couple more years to figure it out or do you move on?



This is why we should all hope he does well and let the season play out. This thread should have never started halfway through what has been a winning season. In my opinion, if we have a winning record, top 6 finish and win a game in St. Louis he should get a 1 year extension, and more money for the program.


----------



## sycamore tuff

meistro said:


> This is why we should all hope he does well and let the season play out. This thread should have never started halfway through what has been a winning season. In my opinion, if we have a winning record, top 6 finish and win a game in St. Louis he should get a 1 year extension, and more money for the program.



I think I am with you here.  If we stay out of Thursday and win on Friday he gets one more season?  Or did you mean one more year after the existing contract expires?


----------



## landrus13

meistro said:


> This is why we should all hope he does well and let the season play out. This thread should have never started halfway through what has been a winning season. In my opinion, if we have a winning record, top 6 finish and win a game in St. Louis he should get a 1 year extension, and more money for the program.




I don't see how having another mediocre season in a mediocre basketball conference warrants an extension. He needs more than that to warrant another year or beyond.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Greg wasn't out there missing shots -- wide open 3s, bunnies around the rim, free throws.

Inconsistency is always the killer of Indiana State. There is nothing that Lansing could have done to change the outcome yesterday. Hell, I feel that way in pretty much every loss this year aside from probably one where I think he should have switched up defenses.

Tyreke Key got whatever JB had last year and it is no shock since he went MIA, we've started losing. Jimmy's and Joe's, not Xs and Os, especially at this level even more so then HM where they have 4 and 5-stars stacked 13 deep.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> *Greg wasn't out there missing shots -- wide open 3s, bunnies around the rim, free throws*.
> 
> Inconsistency is always the killer of Indiana State. There is nothing that Lansing could have done to change the outcome yesterday. Hell, I feel that way in pretty much every loss this year aside from probably one where I think he should have switched up defenses.
> 
> Tyreke Key got whatever JB had last year and it is no shock since he went MIA, we've started losing. Jimmy's and Joe's, not Xs and Os, especially at this level even more so then HM where they have 4 and 5-stars stacked 13 deep.



shocking how many 'easy shots' (FTs, 1-2 footers) did not fall

some of 3s should have never been launched --- some were out of desperation to close the lead

the game turned on that horsesh** "foul" on laravia that gave SMS Normal 3 FTs


----------



## 4Q_iu

*Congratulations JB*

lost in all of the noise of the loss was Jordan Barnes climbing into the Top 10 (Career) Steals.

Barnes now ranks in the Top 10 Career Lists in:
Points - 1,496 (#9)
3-ptrs - 265  (#3)
Assists - 369 (#9)
Steals - 129 (#9)

JB is the 1st player in 125 seasons of Sycamore MBB to reach the Top 10 in those 4 categories

Congratulations Jordan!


----------



## Buckhorn

Jason Svoboda said:


> Greg wasn't out there missing shots -- wide open 3s, bunnies around the rim, free throws.
> 
> Inconsistency is always the killer of Indiana State. There is nothing that Lansing could have done to change the outcome yesterday. Hell, I feel that way in pretty much every loss this year aside from probably one where I think he should have switched up defenses.
> 
> Tyreke Key got whatever JB had last year and it is no shock since he went MIA, we've started losing. Jimmy's and Joe's, not Xs and Os, especially at this level even more so then HM where they have 4 and 5-stars stacked 13 deep.



"Inconsistency" is reflected in the_ heartbeat of the Head Coach_, and will follow him where ever he goes. It's what separates the MEN from the BOYZ in Div I coaching. In GL's case, his "predictability" of game plan seems to be his #1 nemesis. He simply can't escape his coaching "box" and take control of a game, making the necessary changes as the game progresses. This is in his HEAD, not his BILLFOLD.


----------



## landrus13

Buckhorn said:


> "Inconsistency" is reflected in the_ heartbeat of the Head Coach_, and will follow him where ever he goes. It's what separates the MEN from the BOYZ in Div I coaching. In GL's case, his "predictability" of game plan seems to be his #1 nemesis. He simply can't escape his coaching "box" and take control of a game, making the necessary changes as the game progresses. This is in his HEAD, not his BILLFOLD.



He refuses to change things up. He's stubborn in his coaching style. MVC teams know what ISU is gonna do. It's up to Lansing to figure something out and change it. Until then, ISU will continue to fall. He's always gotten that fluke win and then they fall apart. Happens almost every year towards the end of the MVC season.


----------



## niklz62

4Q_iu said:


> shocking how many 'easy shots' (FTs, 1-2 footers) did not fall
> 
> some of 3s should have never been launched --- some were out of desperation to close the lead
> 
> the game turned on that horsesh** "foul" on laravia that gave SMS Normal 3 FTs



I thought the charge early on kind of boned us.  the inadvertent whistle was a summary of the entire game.  Ive seen 2 IWs in all my years of watching college basketball (i dont watch a lot) and they have both been at Hulman center this year.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Jason Svoboda said:


> Greg wasn't out there missing shots -- wide open 3s, bunnies around the rim, free throws.
> 
> Inconsistency is always the killer of Indiana State. There is nothing that Lansing could have done to change the outcome yesterday. Hell, I feel that way in pretty much every loss this year aside from probably one where I think he should have switched up defenses.
> 
> Tyreke Key got whatever JB had last year and it is no shock since he went MIA, we've started losing. Jimmy's and Joe's, not Xs and Os, especially at this level even more so then HM where they have 4 and 5-stars stacked 13 deep.



It is a winning culture that changes most of those things. Greg Lansing does not "command" a winning culture. He has not to this point & most likely is not capable of creating that. It is past time for him to move on.


----------



## 4Q_iu

As a Division I program, Ind State has had 3 periods of a "winning culture"

   Bob King - 1975-1978         (61-24       .718)
   Bill Hodges - 1978-1982      (67-48       .583)
   Greg Lansing - 2010-pres    (162-153    .514)


   None of the other 6 Div I coaches commanded one either


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> As a Division I program, Ind State has had 3 periods of a "winning culture"
> 
> Bob King - 1975-1978         (61-24       .718)
> Bill Hodges - 1978-1982      (67-48       .583)
> Greg Lansing - 2010-pres    (162-153    .514)
> 
> 
> None of the other 6 Div I coaches commanded one either



Five straight losing seasons is not a winning culture. Nine games above .500 in 300 plus games played is not a winning culture.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> Five straight losing seasons is not a winning culture. Nine games above .500 in 300 plus games played is not a winning culture.




provide your definition of "winning culture"?

because we've had 3 NCAA Div I coaches with a winning record

they were NAIB/A or Div II coaches and everyone knows wins vs. non-Div I teams don't count, correct?


----------



## Hooper

You all want Ranger Rovers for the price of Elantras.

If you don’t like the state of ISU basketball write checks or lobby for new leadership at the top of the University.  We’re getting average (and sometimes above average) results using allocated resources that are way, way below average.  Worst in the MVC actually.

Coming on here complaining or hoping Clink can find someone better without demanding investment from the ISU administration is simply wasted and misplaced rage.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> You all want Ranger Rovers for the price of Elantras.
> 
> If you don’t like the state of ISU basketball write checks or* lobby for new leadership at the top of the University.*  We’re getting average (and sometimes above average) results using allocated resources that are way, way below average.  Worst in the MVC actually.
> 
> Coming on here complaining or hoping Clink can find someone better without demanding investment from the ISU administration is simply wasted and misplaced rage.




i'd start with writing checks...   the odds that the BoT is going to oust Dr Curtis b/c the MBB is ~.500 annually is absurd.

Never going to happen at Ind State

afterall, we're not a SEC school​


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> provide your definition of "winning culture"?
> 
> because we've had 3 NCAA Div I coaches with a winning record
> 
> they were NAIB/A or Div II coaches and everyone knows wins vs. non-Div I teams don't count, correct?



We've had three coaches over the last 23 years. Not a lot to compare to it at a school that accepts mediocrity. It's interesting to me how some of you rave about Lansing's recruiting and how much talent we have at the start of the season then make excuses for him about the funding when we fall apart the end of the season. I don't expect Lansing to be gone until after next year, but the crappy record is what it is. It's time to move on short of a miracle season next year, or stunning turnaround to this one.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> We've had three coaches over the last 23 years. Not a lot to compare to it at a school that accepts mediocrity. It's interesting to me how some of you rave about Lansing's recruiting and how much talent we have at the start of the season then make excuses for him about the funding when we fall apart the end of the season. I don't expect Lansing to be gone until after next year, but the crappy record is what it is. It's time to move on short of a miracle season next year, or stunning turnaround to this one.




So - you won't provide a definition and defend your position by stating there's not enough data...

I don't believe I've ever raved about our talent OR Lansing's recruiting,  I DO believe had Bryant McIntosh lived up to his commitment, the past 5 seasons would have been much different.

Recently, someone theorized we COULD have signed Elijah Childs but we took Devin Thomas instead -- I hope that theory is incorrect.

I've also been told that we missed out on Ron Baker (Wichita St)

The funding issue is not unique to Lansing; hell, I can't think of a time when our funding was outstanding -- I don't believe it's EVER been outstanding


If you believe Lansing's record is crappy; what are your thoughts on these:

Kevin McKenna  43-52 (.453)
Sherman Dillard  29-51  (.363)
Tates Locke  50-88  (.411)
Ron Greene  31-82  (.274)
Dave Schellhase 37-48  (.435)


I fully expect ISU to have a new MBB coach for the 2021-22 season; if he OR she doesn't post a huge 1st season, how short a leash do they receive?
​


----------



## Westbadenboy

Sorry guys --- not a Lansing hater but frankly the only thing that counts is his record post-Odum  .  Hard to put into stats how much a leader like Jake does to elevate a team.  
Look how many young men have come to ISU believing they would help begin a period of success.  And what has happened ----the same old trend each and every year.  Every year --- since Jake Odum left the floor.  Talk money all you want.  We've not had championship talent the past 5 years.  We have had talent enough to win 18 - 20 games and not be blown out each and every time in our final game
There is only one ….ONE …. constant in all this ------
Greg Lansing
Nice guy.  Personable.  Runs clean program.  Great face for program.  Recruits pretty well.
Clueless with game management.  Ugly substitution patterns.  Horrible offensive coach.  Not nearly as good a defensive coach as all the TV commentators proclaim.  Incapable of effectively diagnoising why his teams collapse every February.
NONE of the above has ANYTHING to do with funding.  NONE.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Westbadenboy said:


> Sorry guys --- not a Lansing hater but frankly the only thing that counts is his record post-Odum  .  Hard to put into stats how much a leader like Jake does to elevate a team.
> Look how many young men have come to ISU believing they would help begin a period of success.  And what has happened ----the same old trend each and every year.  Every year --- since Jake Odum left the floor.  Talk money all you want.  We've not had championship talent the past 5 years.  We have had talent enough to win 18 - 20 games and not be blown out each and every time in our final game
> There is only one ….ONE …. constant in all this ------
> Greg Lansing
> Nice guy.  Personable.  Runs clean program.  Great face for program.  Recruits pretty well.
> Clueless with game management.  Ugly substitution patterns.  Horrible offensive coach.  Not nearly as good a defensive coach as all the TV commentators proclaim.  Incapable of effectively diagnoising why his teams collapse every February.
> NONE of the above has ANYTHING to do with funding.  NONE.




I know of one young man who did NOT come to ISU

and I'll bet you dollar for Square Doughnuts that IF we had a larger recruiting budget, we WOULD have had another McIntosh quality recruit to replace him
but we don't have that budget, he de-committed, we had not legit replacement and we have 5 middling years

No Bucks -- No 'big time' recruits or Big Time Recruiting capabilities


----------



## Daveinth

4Q_iu said:


> I know of one young man who did NOT come to ISU
> 
> and I'll bet you dollar for Square Doughnuts that IF we had a larger recruiting budget, we WOULD have had another McIntosh quality recruit to replace him
> but we don't have that budget, he de-committed, we had not legit replacement and we have 5 middling years
> 
> No Bucks -- No 'big time' recruits or Big Time Recruiting capabilities



There are how many all state players on this team on this team? We have a Mr Basketball on this team .You tout  that McKenna had a losing record who was his #1 Assistant? Who came here as a Waltman assistant? Who runs the same failed system as Waltman ? You made the comment that  non D1 wins do not count and I agree with your attempt at humor because when we were D2 then yes D2 wins should count however D2 wins when you are D1 is nothing more than an exhibition and last I saw nobody was making the super bowl just because they went 4-0 in the preseason .


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> So - you won't provide a definition and defend your position by stating there's not enough data...
> 
> I don't believe I've ever raved about our talent OR Lansing's recruiting,  I DO believe had Bryant McIntosh lived up to his commitment, the past 5 seasons would have been much different.
> 
> Recently, someone theorized we COULD have signed Elijah Childs but we took Devin Thomas instead -- I hope that theory is incorrect.
> 
> I've also been told that we missed out on Ron Baker (Wichita St)
> 
> The funding issue is not unique to Lansing; hell, I can't think of a time when our funding was outstanding -- I don't believe it's EVER been outstanding
> 
> 
> If you believe Lansing's record is crappy; what are your thoughts on these:
> 
> Kevin McKenna  43-52 (.453)
> Sherman Dillard  29-51  (.363)
> Tates Locke  50-88  (.411)
> Ron Greene  31-82  (.274)
> Dave Schellhase 37-48  (.435)
> 
> 
> I fully expect ISU to have a new MBB coach for the 2021-22 season; if he OR she doesn't post a huge 1st season, how short a leash do they receive?
> ​



The McIntosh de-commit was revenge directly aimed at Lansing after he dismissed a player that didn't set well with the families of either player who were acquainted with each other. Not a rumor!


----------



## Hooper

Daveinth said:


> There are how many all state players on this team on this team? We have a Mr Basketball on this team .You tout  that McKenna had a losing record who was his #1 Assistant? Who came here as a Waltman assistant? Who runs the same failed system as Waltman ? You made the comment that  non D1 wins do not count and I agree with your attempt at humor because when we were D2 then yes D2 wins should count however D2 wins when you are D1 is nothing more than an exhibition and last I saw nobody was making the super bowl just because they went 4-0 in the preseason .



The same system and guy that beat IU like a drum in Assembly Hall as well as a ranked Butler, both of whom now refuse to schedule us?   The system Matt Painter is scared to schedule? The system that has beat other ranked teams?  The system that has won a bunch of games this year already?  All while playing half their games in a rat-infested, feces laden construction zone?  That system?


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> So - you won't provide a definition and defend your position by stating there's not enough data...
> 
> I don't believe I've ever raved about our talent OR Lansing's recruiting,  I DO believe had Bryant McIntosh lived up to his commitment, the past 5 seasons would have been much different.
> 
> Recently, someone theorized we COULD have signed Elijah Childs but we took Devin Thomas instead -- I hope that theory is incorrect.
> 
> I've also been told that we missed out on Ron Baker (Wichita St)
> 
> The funding issue is not unique to Lansing; hell, I can't think of a time when our funding was outstanding -- I don't believe it's EVER been outstanding
> 
> 
> If you believe Lansing's record is crappy; what are your thoughts on these:
> 
> Kevin McKenna  43-52 (.453)
> Sherman Dillard  29-51  (.363)
> Tates Locke  50-88  (.411)
> Ron Greene  31-82  (.274)
> Dave Schellhase 37-48  (.435)
> 
> 
> I fully expect ISU to have a new MBB coach for the 2021-22 season; if he OR she doesn't post a huge 1st season, how short a leash do they receive?
> ​



I'm sure a lot of unemployed coaches have a lot of what ifs to point to. As for the coaches you mention, Dillard and McKenna both helped turn the program around before jumping ship early for other opportunities. Waltman and Lansing both benefited from having Dillard and McKenna as buffers. You don't go from four wins under Locke in his final year to a winning season in Waltman's first year without Dillard in between. You don't go from six straight losing seasons under Waltman to a NCAA tournament appearance in Lansing's first year without McKenna in between. Lumping those two in with the crap fest from the 80s fails to see the whole picture and the trend. Since 1994 we've had FOUR coaches. Two bailed early on us, two were kept far too long.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Sorry -- while I don't know the inside skinny on certain recruits, I do not believe a potential great incoming recruit did not come to ISU because of our "low recruiting budget".
Really ??????
"Yeah -- I would have signed with ISU but they have a lousy recruiting budget.  So I went with Michigan State (or Duke   or Purdue    or UCLA)"


----------



## Buckhorn

4Q_iu said:


> So - you won't provide a definition and defend your position by stating there's not enough data...
> 
> I don't believe I've ever raved about our talent OR Lansing's recruiting,  I DO believe had Bryant McIntosh lived up to his commitment, the past 5 seasons would have been much different.
> 
> Recently, someone theorized we COULD have signed Elijah Childs but we took Devin Thomas instead -- I hope that theory is incorrect.
> 
> I've also been told that we missed out on Ron Baker (Wichita St)
> 
> The funding issue is not unique to Lansing; hell, I can't think of a time when our funding was outstanding -- I don't believe it's EVER been outstanding
> 
> 
> If you believe Lansing's record is crappy; what are your thoughts on these:
> 
> Kevin McKenna  43-52 (.453)
> Sherman Dillard  29-51  (.363)
> Tates Locke  50-88  (.411)
> Ron Greene  31-82  (.274)
> Dave Schellhase 37-48  (.435)
> 
> 
> I fully expect ISU to have a new MBB coach for the 2021-22 season; if he OR she doesn't post a huge 1st season, how short a leash do they receive?
> ​



Curious why you keep overlooking Gordon Stauffer, who transitioned the Sycamores from Small College-level hoop and in five (5) Division I seasons (1970-74) compiled a 69-61 record. His 1st two (2) seasons were in the new Conference of Midwestern Universities (CMU), which involved IL ST, SIU, NIU & BSU. His final three (3) seasons were as a Div I "independent." Don't think there was a "winning culture" then? Perhaps you need to review the schedules and teams (and players on those opposing teams) during Stauffer's Era. 

1970-71: 17-9
1971-72: 12-14
1972-73: 16-10
1973-74: 12-14
1974-75: 12-14

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_C._Stauffer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_Conference

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana-state/

Ironic that the same principles which applied to Stauffer's removal are also being applied to Lansing...a failure to win games he SHOULD'VE WON and satisfy the fan base. Lansing (like Stauffer) has pulled the rug out from under a number of big-time schools ON THE ROAD. You'll also note that Stauffer (like Lansing) had a propensity to go on 4-5 game losing streaks, which always knocked us out of NIT consideration. Lansing is now trying to avoid his sixth (6) losing season in a row,  and you use his CUMULATIVE record (which is just above .500 over a decade) to justify NOT firing his ass? :laugh:


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> The same system and guy that beat IU like a drum in Assembly Hall as well as a ranked Butler, both of whom now refuse to schedule us?   The system Matt Painter is scared to schedule? The system that has beat other ranked teams?  The system that has won a bunch of games this year already?  All while playing half their games in a rat-infested, feces laden construction zone?  That system?



And the same system that strikes "lightening in a bottle" once every two or three seasons & loses more games than he wins almost EVERY season in the MVC & to other lesser talented teams along the way while plodding to a .500 OR LESS season year after year.  FIRE GREG LANSING ...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

HOOPSFAN said:


> The McIntosh de-commit was revenge directly aimed at Lansing after he dismissed a player that didn't set well with the families of either player who were acquainted with each other. Not a rumor!



Who was the player? 

I stood with Bryant's dad along the baseline at an AAU event right after he decommitted and his exact words were "Broke my heart to tell Lansing we were decommitting but once he was looking at Drake, we were looking, too." He also said he cried over it. 

So was his father a liar?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Jason Svoboda said:


> Who was the player?
> 
> I stood with Bryant's dad along the baseline at an AAU event right after he decommitted and his exact words were "Broke my heart to tell Lansing we were decommitting but once he was looking at Drake, we were looking, too." He also said he cried over it.
> 
> So was his father a liar?



I won't name names on here but be assured that you can take it to the bank irrespective of what his father may have told you at the time.


----------



## Buckhorn

Curious as to whose schollie McIntosh would've taken out of the Fr./Tr. ISU recruiting class?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana-state/2015.html


----------



## 4Q_iu

Daveinth said:


> There are how many all state players on this team on this team? We have a Mr Basketball on this team .You tout  that McKenna had a losing record who was his #1 Assistant? Who came here as a Waltman assistant? Who runs the same failed system as Waltman ? You made the comment that  non D1 wins do not count and I agree with your attempt at humor because when we were D2 then yes D2 wins should count however D2 wins when you are D1 is nothing more than an exhibition and last I saw nobody was making the super bowl just because they went 4-0 in the preseason .




There is only one state where Mr. Basketball is legit.

It's Indiana.

There's been a grand total of 0 (zero) Indiana Mr. Basketball(s) that have suited up for the Trees.

We currently have 4 "Indiana All-Stars" on the roster; we've had 45 Indiana All-Stars wear Sycamore Blue, that 45 includes transfers.

While assistants obviously play a large role in the program; the W-L are by Head Coach, so no lumping McKenna & Waltman's W-L on Lansing unless we add Bob King's W-L to Bill Hodges's record...

After all Hodges is the coach that landed Larry Bird, not Bob King.   And Gordon Stauffer was recruiting Bird before King joined ISU... 

While Div 2 games don't factor into the various computer 'rankings' in today's college game, they are not exhibitions.   They count in the overall W-L of any|all programs.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> The McIntosh de-commit was revenge directly aimed at Lansing after he dismissed a player that didn't set well with the families of either player who were acquainted with each other. Not a rumor!




Name names -- put it in the "members" only section (The Sycamore Pride) of this forum or you're simply yammering like the old ladies in their "beauty parlors"


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> And the same system that strikes "lightening in a bottle" once every two or three seasons & loses more games than he wins almost EVERY season in the MVC & to other lesser talented teams along the way while plodding to a .500 OR LESS season year after year.  FIRE GREG LANSING ...



You seem to have a passion for his job status.  So much so that I am sure you've made sizable donations to the SAF this year, and last, and the year before that.  Right?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Westbadenboy said:


> Sorry -- while I don't know the inside skinny on certain recruits, I do not believe a potential great incoming recruit did not come to ISU because of our "low recruiting budget".
> Really ??????
> "Yeah -- I would have signed with ISU but they have a lousy recruiting budget.  So I went with Michigan State (or Duke   or Purdue    or UCLA)"




The budget directly affects how many times an Ass't Coach OR the Head Coach can see a player in person.

Some narcissistic recruits will only speck with the Head Coach

A larger budget allows any coach to fly not drive to see recruits
A larger budget allows any coach to travel farther, more often to see a recruit AND to recruit MORE players, so that when one decommits, there's a 'same quality' recruit to take their place... 

Not sign a kid from Texas who's ultimately going to transfer back to a Texas school near his Texas hometown


A larger budget allows the scholie players to have their own tablet upon arriving, NOT having to do a GoFundMe campaign for new uniforms or tablets
A larger budget allows teams to fly to games, not bus
A larger budget allows a program to BUY winnable games AT HOME vice going on the road

Do you need any other examples of how a larger budget affects EVERY aspect of a program?


----------



## Buckhorn

So if this low budget "handcuffs" GL so much, why hasn't he sought greener coaching pastures? He allegedly turned down a Drake $475,000 offer to stay in TH in lieu of these horrible conditions, making only *$320,000/yr.* You do the math...something doesn't add up. Btw, how many people in the Wabash Valley make over $1/4m a year?


----------



## pbutler218

Buckhorn said:


> So if this low budget "handcuffs" GL so much, why hasn't he sought greener coaching pastures? He allegedly turned down a Drake $475,000 offer to stay in TH in lieu of these horrible conditions, making only $250,000/yr. You do the math...something doesn't add up. Btw, how many people in the Wabash Valley make $1/4m a year?



Exactly!! Lansing has had opportunity to go elsewhere and HE chose to stay here. Of course after every shitty end to the season he cries to the AD and "says" he'll do better next year. B.S. Not buying into the excuses some on here keep making for him. HE'S HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO GET THE JOB DONE!!


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> You seem to have a passion for his job status.  So much so that I am sure you've made sizable donations to the SAF this year, and last, and the year before that.  Right?



Don't bait me ......... you never responded to my allegation that you must believe Stevie Wonder isn't really blind. Can't believe that you are so blind that you cannot accept the fact that Lansing was, still is, and always will be a .500 coach at best. Indiana State University deserves more. He has had nearly TEN YEARS to get it there and the last five have trended below .500. He needs to "all I have to do is make a call" make that call and get out of town and give us a break.


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Don't bait me ......... you never responded to my allegation that you must believe Stevie Wonder isn't really blind. Can't believe that you are so blind that you cannot accept the fact that Lansing was, still is, and always will be a .500 coach at best. Indiana State University deserves more. He has had nearly TEN YEARS to get it there and the last five have trended below .500. He needs to "all I have to do is make a call" make that call and get out of town and give us a break.



I'll take that as a "no, I don't care enough to donate.  I just like to come on here and complain because it feels good."


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> I'll take that as a "no, I don't care enough to donate.  I just like to come on here and complain because it feels good."



Chew on this for a while: start looking at salaries at about $300 down; only the "Big Boys" get the big $$$. Yes ISU who apparently did not respond to this public record request does not pay well at the moment but it is a hell of a lot cheaper to live in Terre Haute Indiana than where a lot of these jobs are.

https://watchstadium.com/college-ba...uyout-database-for-2019-20-season-10-24-2019/

******By the way the last public posting shows Lansing is paid $320,000 & he is not collecting food stamps yet. ISU & Sycamore fans/taxpayers should be getting more for their $$$ even at this "paltry" salary.


----------



## Daveinth

Hooper said:


> The same system and guy that beat IU like a drum in Assembly Hall as well as a ranked Butler, both of whom now refuse to schedule us?   The system Matt Painter is scared to schedule? The system that has beat other ranked teams?  The system that has won a bunch of games this year already?  All while playing half their games in a rat-infested, feces laden construction zone?  That system?



Ya include those rare wins but also include the last 5 years season ending losses using the same system .
2019: Valpo by 22 
2018: Illinos state by 7
2017:Evansville by 11 
2016:Evansville by 26  
2015: Loyola by 28  .

I haven't included the really bad regular season losses during those seasons or this season . Every dog can catch his tail now and then  if he runs around in circles long enough. Big wins against P5 means nothing if you do not capitalize off of it.


----------



## region rat

The best things in life are free
But you can keep them for the birds and bees
Now give me money
That's what I want
That's what I want, yeah
That's what I want
You're lovin' gives me a thrill
But you're lovin' don't pay my bills
Now give me money
That's what I want
That's what I want, yeah
That's what I want
Money don't get everything it's true
What it don't get, I can't use
Now give me money
That's what I want
That's what I want, yeah
That's what I want, wah


----------



## HOOPSFAN

region rat said:


> The best things in life are free
> But you can keep them for the birds and bees
> Now give me money
> That's what I want
> That's what I want, yeah
> That's what I want
> You're lovin' gives me a thrill
> But you're lovin' don't pay my bills
> Now give me money
> That's what I want
> That's what I want, yeah
> That's what I want
> Money don't get everything it's true
> What it don't get, I can't use
> Now give me money
> That's what I want
> That's what I want, yeah
> That's what I want, wah



******By the way the last public posting shows Lansing is paid $320,000 & he is not collecting food stamps yet. ISU & Sycamore fans/taxpayers should be getting more for their $$$ even at this "paltry" salary.


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> ******By the way the last public posting shows Lansing is paid $320,000 & he is not collecting food stamps yet. ISU & Sycamore fans/taxpayers should be getting more for their $$$ even at this "paltry" salary.



Taxpayers don't pay his salary.  It's mostly students and donors.  That's "donors"--not "fans" like some of the ones that come on here and seem to be so concerned about ISU basketball and it's success but don't give dollar one and never have. 
I haven't seen what you're referring to but $320k probably includes his media deal.  If you add all the fringe benefits of all the other coaches, he's still the lowest paid--though Lick down in Evansville may now have that title.  And ISU's basketball budget is not only dead last, but according to Kravitz dead last by over $500,000 to whoever has the second-smallest.  (I think it is SIU whom we were close to, but this year they upped their budget to get Mullins). That's a half a million dollar shortfall just to be second-to-worst.  Our opponent tonight pays their coach almost a million a year (no doubt more if they dance this year) and all of his assistants make six figures.

Yet Lansing & Co. have outperformed the, yes, "paltry" investment ISU makes in athletics.  The fact the university flat out refuses to support the program of Larry Bird at a competitive level is mind-boggling.  What good will a refurbished arena be if we don't invest enough in the product on the floor?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> Taxpayers don't pay his salary.  It's mostly students and donors.  That's "donors"--not "fans" like some of the ones that come on here and seem to be so concerned about ISU basketball and it's success but don't give dollar one and never have.
> 
> i haven't seen what you're referring to but $320k probably includes his media deal.  If you add all the fringe benefits of all the other coaches, he's still the lowest paid--though Lick down in Evansville may now have that title.  And ISU's basketball budget is not only dead last, but according to Kravitz dead last by over $500,000 to whoever has the second-smallest.  (I think it is SIU whom we were close to, but this year they upped their budget to get Mullins). That's a half a million dollar shortfall just to be second-to-worst.  Our opponent tonight pays their coach almost a million a year (no doubt more if they dance this year) and all of his assistants make six figures.
> 
> Yet Lansing & Co. have outperformed the, yes, "paltry" investment ISU makes in athletics.  The fact the university flat out refuses to support the program of Larry Bird at a competitive level is mind-boggling.  What good will a refurbished arena be if we don't invest enough in the product on the floor?



I don't just throw out numbers without facts - punch in Lansing in the search box ... https://gateway.ifionline.org/repor...Compensation&rpt_unit_in=3186&referrer=byunit

And I don't see ANY donor money in this report? This is payroll from the State of Indiana.


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> I don't just throw out numbers without facts - punch in Lansing in the search box ... https://gateway.ifionline.org/repor...Compensation&rpt_unit_in=3186&referrer=byunit
> 
> And I don't see ANY donor money in this report? This is payroll from the State of Indiana.



You are exposing your ignorance on athletics operations if you think this means he's paid by the taxpayers.

Scroll down to Athletics revenue sources and expenses--including "compensation."

You'll see none of the funding comes from the State allocation.

https://www.indstate.edu/sites/default/files/media/budget-office/2019-20_budgets.pdf


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> You are exposing your ignorance on athletics operations if you think this means he's paid by the taxpayers.
> 
> Scroll down to Athletics revenue sources and expenses--including "compensation."
> 
> You'll see none of the funding comes from the State allocation.
> 
> https://www.indstate.edu/sites/default/files/media/budget-office/2019-20_budgets.pdf




Thanks for the research, FWIW - i wouldn't have been surprised had he opened his research with an Alternative Fact Subtitle

In addition, the "Indiana Gateway" is a 'transparency tool' -- they rely solely on the local government entity to report the data, state agencies (Dept of Local Gov't Finance and/or the State Board of Accounts; will then VERIFY the information.


Dead Horse Beating Alert

Unless Lansing is found in bed with 2-3 dead hookers OR a small herd of domestic/feral livestock; there's virtually zero chance of him NOT coaching in 2020-21.

While ISU isn't bankrupt (endowment inched up in the most recent reports  IIRC); they certainly do not have the cash flow to buy him out, conduct a new national search AND pay a new HC and staff in 2020-21.

In more recent news, John Beilein is now out of work


----------



## niklz62

There's probably a lot the school could do if someone wrote a big fat check for a specific purpose.


----------



## 4Q_iu

niklz62 said:


> There's probably a lot the school could do if someone wrote a big fat check for a specific purpose.




I think any school, like any charity, LOVE big fat checks with no specific purposes.

However, philanthropy has changed; in general, many donors want to know the specifics; what is needed, what was achieved, etc.  Hence the rise of the "Donor Advised Fund(s)" (aka DAFs)

That aside; yes, any institution (school, charity) can ALWAYS find a way to spend what they receive.


At least the FBI isn't investigating ISU for selling out to the ChiComms like Harvard has


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> You are exposing your ignorance on athletics operations if you think this means he's paid by the taxpayers.
> 
> Scroll down to Athletics revenue sources and expenses--including "compensation."
> 
> You'll see none of the funding comes from the State allocation.
> 
> https://www.indstate.edu/sites/default/files/media/budget-office/2019-20_budgets.pdf



Search a few more names. All their "pay checks" come from the same place The State of Indiana. Doesn't matter what budget line. Bottom line is he is doing better than most, not in the soup line and more $$$ would not make him a better coach .... always will be a .500 or close to it coach. Maybe we will pay the next coach a little better and get more for our money?


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Search a few more names. All their "pay checks" come from the same place The State of Indiana. Doesn't matter what budget line. Bottom line is he is doing better than most, not in the soup line and more $$$ would not make him a better coach .... always will be a .500 or close to it coach. Maybe we will pay the next coach a little better and get more for our money?




   Twist your logic in any manner; you're still spitting into the wind.   The "state of Indiana" isn't paying his salary.

   And if ISU cannot afford to buy him out; in what world do you believe they can afford to pay MORE for a different, "better" coach?

    I've no idea how "rich" the Sycamore Varsity Club is but the fact that in the past ~5-years, the MBB program has effectively had   "GoFundMe" campaigns for UNIFORMS and tablets SHOULD be a small indication how "minimum wage" the Varsity Club's bottom line is.


----------



## Hooper

I regret to inform you all that ISU will not have a losing season this year.

Greg Lansing has, yet again, outperformed his bottom-barrel salary and budget just like he has done every single year.


----------



## CicrtckySycamore

Hooper said:


> I regret to inform you all that ISU will not have a losing season this year.
> 
> Greg Lansing has, yet again, outperformed his bottom-barrel salary and budget just like he has done every single year.



Thank God. Ok. Moving on and beating another dead horse somewhere else.


----------



## Jackson0330

Wow!  The only time I pick State +3.5 and they cover UNI. Stat wise they match-up well with UNI. They always play them tough of all the teams in the Valley they match-up best.  Great win and great effort, but the late game collapse is indicative of their maturity level.  Gotta learn to play all 40 minutes. You do that and it makes for an interesting end to the season.


----------



## region rat

Hoopsfun you don’t know what you are talking about and even though you won’t go away Lansing needs a raise and bigger budget.  He is the best and brings together winning teams and beats some of the best in this conference.  It is extremely difficult to win in this conference with the limitations he has no matter what ignorant statistics you can come up with.  Be thankful he wants to be the coach of ISU men’s basketball.


----------



## Bob Evans

Westbadenboy said:


> Sorry guys --- not a Lansing hater but frankly the only thing that counts is his record post-Odum  .  Hard to put into stats how much a leader like Jake does to elevate a team.
> Look how many young men have come to ISU believing they would help begin a period of success.  And what has happened ----the same old trend each and every year.  Every year --- since Jake Odum left the floor.  Talk money all you want.  We've not had championship talent the past 5 years.  We have had talent enough to win 18 - 20 games and not be blown out each and every time in our final game
> There is only one ….ONE …. constant in all this ------
> Greg Lansing
> Nice guy.  Personable.  Runs clean program.  Great face for program.  Recruits pretty well.
> Clueless with game management.  Ugly substitution patterns.  Horrible offensive coach.  Not nearly as good a defensive coach as all the TV commentators proclaim.  Incapable of effectively diagnoising why his teams collapse every February.
> NONE of the above has ANYTHING to do with funding.  NONE.




If you don't count the years that a team had a really good player, no coach would have a winning record ever. Sorry, that's just not fair.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Dahhhh....of course.  Why do some people on this site refuse to deal with the arguments some of us are making ????
Of course BB should have a much much bigger budget !   Of course the Athletic Dept should do a much much better of creating better game atmosphere !
Etc Etc  On and On !!!
But that is NOT what most of us are saying -- deal with the actual arguments !
If you read -- actually read --our posts you would see this is about the job of coaching the kids we do have on the team at any given time.  Not who we might have gotten etc. etc
And most who are frustrated with Lansing are trying to make the point that he does not do a good job of coaching the players who are on the team year in year out.  The players we DO have are better than their record ends up being.  Sure, goin to happen sometimes -- reality.  But it has happened year in year out since Odum left.  And in almost identical ways.  Only constant over the years …...Greg Lansing.
Yes I think a lot of us think that there are several coaches in the MVC who would have won 4 -- 6 more games in each of the past few years had they been at ISU those years.
Gee whiz -- deal with the ACTUAL frustrations -- not other stuff.  "Other stuff" is very important.  Very important.  But it is not what causes most folks to wish for a change.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

region rat said:


> Hoopsfun you don’t know what you are talking about and even though you won’t go away Lansing needs a raise and bigger budget.  He is the best and brings together winning teams and beats some of the best in this conference.  It is extremely difficult to win in this conference with the limitations he has no matter what ignorant statistics you can come up with.  Be thankful he wants to be the coach of ISU men’s basketball.



Hell yes ........ double his salary & sign him on for another 10 years this time because he won ONE game AT HOME when he was a 3-pt dog & clinched at least a .500 season THE FIRST SINCE 2014. What a coach ....


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Hell yes ........ double his salary & sign him on for another 10 years this time because he won ONE game AT HOME when he was a 3-pt dog & clinched at least a .500 season THE FIRST SINCE 2014. What a coach ....



He’s won EVERY GAME at home this year except one.  And according to Kravitz that “home” is currently infested with an eclectic collection of rodents with various feces-producing capabilities.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bob Evans said:


> If you don't count the years that a team had a really good player, no coach would have a winning record ever. Sorry, that's just not fair.




It's SHOCKING that basketball fans think a great coach wins games without really good players...

Course,  a coach can have some really great talent and still not win...  SEE: North Carolina, Univ of.    2019-2020 MBB Team

Then you have the "great coaches" who slam square players into round holes

As has been mentioned on this forum; it's as much Jimmy's & Joe's as X's & O's


----------



## region rat

Hoops fan, I will be ignorant like you.  You need to apply for the job!


----------



## niklz62

Westbadenboy said:


> Dahhhh....of course.  Why do some people on this site refuse to deal with the arguments some of us are making ????
> Of course BB should have a much much bigger budget !   Of course the Athletic Dept should do a much much better of creating better game atmosphere !
> Etc Etc  On and On !!!
> But that is NOT what most of us are saying -- deal with the actual arguments !
> If you read -- actually read --our posts you would see this is about the job of coaching the kids we do have on the team at any given time.  Not who we might have gotten etc. etc
> And most who are frustrated with Lansing are trying to make the point that he does not do a good job of coaching the players who are on the team year in year out.  The players we DO have are better than their record ends up being.  Sure, goin to happen sometimes -- reality.  But it has happened year in year out since Odum left.  And in almost identical ways.  Only constant over the years …...Greg Lansing.
> Yes I think a lot of us think that there are several coaches in the MVC who would have won 4 -- 6 more games in each of the past few years had they been at ISU those years.
> Gee whiz -- deal with the ACTUAL frustrations -- not other stuff.  "Other stuff" is very important.  Very important.  But it is not what causes most folks to wish for a change.



I dont know squat about basketball but you assume that your new underpaid coach with the same budget would have won the games that GL did win and then pick up 4-6 more wins.  What would likely happen is that we would have lost some of the other nut cutters that we pulled out.  The fact is that we are getting more than we are paying for and your hope is that dumping 20% of the budget would get us even more than what we are paying for with a new coach.

I just think that unless you are going to change something outside of the coach you will get more of the same and that GL is outperforming his resources.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Meh. Let's not act like they won't have quite the pool to choose from. It's still a mid-major D1 men's basketball head coaching job and those are finite resources.
> 
> Every time a job opens, you get 100's of guys looking for a change of scenery, to move up, a second chance, etc. The problem is the our pay often keeps them from getting guys that have demonstrated winning experience, which is what I feel like most around here want. Its no different from hiring for any company. If your job posting says it pays $50k, you instantly will shave a portion of the candidate pool because they cannot make that number work with their financial needs whereas they would apply if it said the job paid $100k. This effect cascades through your assistant coach ranks, too.




Per your theory above, should/win ISU goes in search of a new MBB coach, they need to ID a coach with enough personal wealth that they are willing to live in The Haute, coach the Trees and push the bulk of their salary to the assistants...


Short of the $$$ issue of the equation, I could see another "Royce Walton" type of pick, proven winner at lower NCAA divisions, 'late' in career

kinda like Frank Solich @ Ohio;  Solich is canned by the Huskers, he takes the Ohio job and proceeds to win at a lesser rate than Nebraska but Solich is now the 'winningest' coach in MAC history (totals wins) and 2nd in MAC Conf wins


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamore tuff said:


> The bad thing is that when we win the ncaa a reporter will say it would have been a great moment if only HC had a convention center attached to it.




I didn't realize Wilhelmina Packer, aka Anthony William Paczkowski, was still calling games for CBS...


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Mallory was Clink's hire, and Clink is his boss. If I was the AD I would make it clear that D2 schools are not allowed for football. *I mean what exactly is Clinkscales job?* Surely he does more than make a hire every once in a while? Are we just paying him to eat Cheetos at his desk the rest of the time? I mean come on.



Getting the new Sycamore Sports District funded and constructed.



Sycamorefan96 said:


> It doesn't say much for our athletic department when we are allowing our football coach to schedule games that do not count just to pad his record. *If we aren't going to give ourselves a chance to make the playoffs then it is time to drop to the Pioneer League.* I mean seriously why are we spending 4 million dollars when we could get the same result for a million? I was actually kind of being generous with the D+ grade.



I'm supportive of a move to the PFL but others have pointed out that you have the same or near similar expenses with less revenue.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Daveinth said:


> Hof reference is to the continual references of GL being in the Iowa high school HOF because when I think of high school hoops Iowa is my  first thoughts. Did he take a single shot? No but it is his responsibility to prepare a game plan and make in game adjustments as most coaches would do . Lansing has never shown this ability in his tenure as Head coach .* Can you name one time other than a three game period where his team got hot in 2011 that he has brought prestige to the program?* Sorry I have not watched the great one be so great and I can count on one hand the number of games that I have not watched in his tenure  . The point in my rant is I have been a season ticket holder since 1990  and I am sure I am not the only person either on here or people in the general public that is reconsidering their commitment to this sinking ship. As to the last point you attempted to make last I read this was a thread about Greg Lansing not any of the others . So go google more arguments you want to use to protect the Titanic of coaching jobs.




Dec 17th,   2011 -- Trees go into Nashville and BEAT Vandy on National TV
Dec 22-25, 2012 --  Trees beat 2 'Power 5' teams in Hawai'i
Nov 17th,   2013 -- Trees go to North Krook and beat notre dame like the bitches they are on National TV
Nov 10th, 2017 --- Trees go to Gloomington and beat them like the soulless bitches THEY are, sadly, NOT on National TV


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> I'm sure a lot of unemployed coaches have a lot of what ifs to point to. As for the coaches you mention, Dillard and McKenna both helped turn the program around before jumping ship early for other opportunities. Waltman and Lansing both benefited from having Dillard and McKenna as buffers. *You don't go from four wins under Locke in his final year to a winning season in Waltman's first year without Dillard in between. You don't go from six straight losing seasons under Waltman to a NCAA tournament appearance in Lansing's first year without McKenna in between.* Lumping those two in with the crap fest from the 80s fails to see the whole picture and the trend. Since 1994 we've had FOUR coaches. Two bailed early on us, two were kept far too long.




So, ONLY Sherman Dillard could win 7 games with Locke's team in 1994-95?   Please the logic of that contention?  As Locke won 4 games in 1993-94, SURELY Waltman would have won 7 or more games in 94-95;  Dillard was a career assistant, we hire him, he "rebuilds" ISU (your contention) and then jumps to coach his alma mater & replacing Lefty Driesell.

If you're so supportive of the Dillard hire, then Lansing's fits your model, career assistant, ISU is first collegiate HC job


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> So, ONLY Sherman Dillard could win 7 games with Locke's team in 1994-95?   Please the logic of that contention?  As Locke won 4 games in 1993-94, SURELY Waltman would have won 7 or more games in 94-95;  Dillard was a career assistant, we hire him, he "rebuilds" ISU (your contention) and then jumps to coach his alma mater & replacing Lefty Driesell.
> 
> If you're so supportive of the Dillard hire, then Lansing's fits your model, career assistant, ISU is first collegiate HC job



Never said anything about "ONLY Sherman Dillard," just was pointing out that it was unfair to lump him and McKenna in with the others and to site them as losing coaches given they were rebuilding the program and left early. I don't think they're anything spectacular, I just think they deserve and incomplete score. Lansing likely would be a career assistant if not for being our HC for so long. Quite possible Dillard would have followed a similar trend as Waltman and Lansing if he'd remained our HC, no better or worse over a decade as ISU coach.


----------



## Buckhorn

Don't forget that Dillard hired GL as an Asst., then the NEXT yr. recruited NATE GREEN from Roosevelt HS where GL had been his HS coach. Almost a "package deal"...

Anyone ever examine Dillard's record as a 6-yr. Asst. to Georgia Tech's Bobby Cremins ('88-94) prior to the 3 yrs. @ ISU? How does this compare w/ GL's "career shaping" experience in program re-paving?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/georgia-tech/


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> Never said anything about "ONLY Sherman Dillard," just was pointing out that it was unfair to lump him and McKenna in with the others and to site them as losing coaches given they were rebuilding the program and left early. I don't think they're anything spectacular, I just think they deserve and incomplete score. Lansing likely would be a career assistant if not for being our HC for so long. Quite possible Dillard would have followed a similar trend as Waltman and Lansing if he'd remained our HC, no better or worse over a decade as ISU coach.




So, if a head coach stays 3-yrs or less they're 'rebuilding' but from their 4th season and beyond, they're not?

Dillard and McKenna are "lumped" in with the others because they're the head coach - period.

After all, if Lansing is going to bear the burden of his head coaching career @ State, then so will the others.

Or we could extol the rebuilding that Johnny Wooden accomplished so that John Longfellow could win the NAIB in 1950, something G. Curtis and J. Wooden did not achieve.


----------



## bluestreak

and then Diilard got fired at his Alma mater.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

region rat said:


> Hoopsfun you don’t know what you are talking about and even though you won’t go away Lansing needs a raise and bigger budget.  He is the best and brings together winning teams and beats some of the best in this conference.  It is extremely difficult to win in this conference with the limitations he has no matter what ignorant statistics you can come up with.  Be thankful he wants to be the coach of ISU men’s basketball.



Oh so thankful the great one wants to coach at ISU with all the limitations forced upon him. Double his salary, double all his assistant's salaries and give him exclusive use of a private jet. Makes no difference as the man is a career .500 coach and it won't change. :thumbsdown:


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> Dec 17th,   2011 -- Trees go into Nashville and BEAT Vandy on National TV
> Dec 22-25, 2012 --  Trees beat 2 'Power 5' teams in Hawai'i
> Nov 17th,   2013 -- Trees go to North Krook and beat notre dame like the bitches they are on National TV
> Nov 10th, 2017 --- Trees go to Gloomington and beat them like the soulless bitches THEY are, sadly, NOT on National TV



Let's see, you go back 8 years to 2012 where you could pick out a "Big win" (oh and two in 2012). This is 2020 & he has lost more than he won for the previous five years 2014-2019.  Why not add that Larry Bird played at Indiana State 40+ years ago and try to embellish his bio some more?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> Twist your logic in any manner; you're still spitting into the wind.   The "state of Indiana" isn't paying his salary.
> 
> And if ISU cannot afford to buy him out; in what world do you believe they can afford to pay MORE for a different, "better" coach?
> 
> I've no idea how "rich" the Sycamore Varsity Club is but the fact that in the past ~5-years, the MBB program has effectively had   "GoFundMe" campaigns for UNIFORMS and tablets SHOULD be a small indication how "minimum wage" the Varsity Club's bottom line is.



Ask him who is employer is on his W2?


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Let's see, you go back 8 years to 2012 where you could pick out a "Big win" (oh and two in 2012). This is 2020 & he has lost more than he won for the previous five years 2014-2019.  Why not add that Larry Bird played at Indiana State 40+ years ago and try to embellish his bio some more?




I'm sorry for your dislexia

I went back to 2011 and gave you 5 of my favorite "big wins."

I didn't mention the win in Hulman vs. buttler because I don't consider buttler a "big win"

I didn't mention the wins vs. ranked Creighton and Wichita City because I don't consider them "big wins"

You likely consider the late Secretariat to be a walking glue stick because he lost 2 of his final 5 races.


As i matter a fact, I do tell people that Larry Bird played MBB at Indiana State -- you'd be surprised at the number of idiots who think he played in gloomington.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Ask him who is employer is on his W2?





Dollar to Square Donuts it sez Indiana State University;  not State of Indiana

ISU receives monies from multiple sources; no "income tax" dollars pay his salary, none.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Following last night's win in Hulman (11-1 this season); Lansing notched his 88th MVC win, he is now residing in 12th place in Valley history.

 If the Trees win out, he'll finish the season tied at #11 with Joe Stowell with 91 wins.

 Ahead of him are a mix of recent Valley coaches (Dana Altman #2 182 wins;  Barry Hinson # 4 155 wins;  Ben Jacobson #5  150 wins; Gregg Marshall  # 6 134 wins and Jim Molinari  # 9  110 wins) and Hall of Famers such as Hank Iba (#1 187 wins), Eddie Hickey (#3 163 wins),  Phog Allen (#7 126 wins), legendary Richie Herrin rounds out the Top Ten (#8 with 111 wins.)


  The career record(s) for ISU coaches in "big games" (ranked AP, Coaches)

      Longfellow   0-1       (0.000)

       Klueh            2-18     (0.053)
       Stauffer        15-10   (0.600), 0-2 vs. Div I
       King               3-1       (0.750)
       Hodges          5-2      (0.714)
       Schellhase    1-4       (0.200)
       Greene          0-6       (0.000)
       Locke             0-3       (0.000)
       Waltman       4-9       (0.308)
       McKenna       0-7       (0.000)
       Lansing          5-17     (0.227),  1-0 vs. Div II


  Most of Stauffer's wins were during Div II days, he was 4-5 after ISU had transitioned, yet we were still playing Div II teams...:thinking:


  King and Hodges have the best records vs. ranked teams, though both were still playing Div II teams....  :thinking:
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## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> So, if a head coach stays 3-yrs or less they're 'rebuilding' but from their 4th season and beyond, they're not?
> 
> Dillard and McKenna are "lumped" in with the others because they're the head coach - period.
> 
> After all, if Lansing is going to bear the burden of his head coaching career @ State, then so will the others.
> 
> Or we could extol the rebuilding that Johnny Wooden accomplished so that John Longfellow could win the NAIB in 1950, something G. Curtis and J. Wooden did not achieve.



So, you don't hold Lansing accountable for the past *five* straight losing seasons. You talk about his winning record and winning culture, but want to label Dillard and McKenna losing coaches based on *three* seasons worth of work (btw, McKenna's last season was a winning season, our first in almost a decade by that point). They both inherited losing programs. Lansing did not. And Lansing took that winning program and coached it into the five year hole it's been in. Again, I'm not arguing their better, I'm arguing Lansing doesn't have any business being our coach anymore, or being placed on the pedestal you give him.


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## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> So, you don't hold Lansing accountable for the past *five* straight losing seasons. You talk about his winning record and winning culture, but want to label Dillard and McKenna losing coaches based on *three* seasons worth of work (btw, McKenna's last season was a winning season, our first in almost a decade by that point). They both inherited losing programs. Lansing did not. And Lansing took that winning program and coached it into the five year hole it's been in. Again, I'm not arguing their better, I'm arguing Lansing doesn't have any business being our coach anymore, or being placed on the pedestal you give him.




Of course Lansing is accountable for the past five straight losing seasons; just as he's held accountable for the previous *four straight winning seasons*.

I'm not labeling Dillard and McKenna as losing coaches; THEIR RECORD labels them as losing coaches.

Dillard was 29-51 (.363) @ ISU & 93-106 (.467) @ James Madison; career NCAA Div I record of 122-157 (.437)
McKenna was 89-33 (.730) @ Div II Neb-Omaha* & 43-52 (.453) @ ISU; career NCAA Div I record 43-52 (.453); career NCAA HC record of 132-85 (.606) 

Dillard is 64, McKenna is 61; arguably, their days as NCAA Div I Head Coaches are over; will history be kind to them?

Lansing was 52 in Dec, he may coach another 10 years at the Div I level, why not wait until Lansing's HC career is over and THEN assess his career?

It's irrelavent if you believe he has no business being the current MBB coach @ Indiana State, he's under contract, he has a winning record, there are no off court scandals with the players, certainly nothing like at other schools, by all accounts the players graduate

Will he be back when his contract expires?   Only the future will tell

IF ISU was going to fire him, They Would Have Fired Him By This Point.

I can type that slower, I'm not certain it'll be understood.


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## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> Of course Lansing is accountable for the past five straight losing seasons; just as he's held accountable for the previous *four straight winning seasons*.
> 
> I'm not labeling Dillard and McKenna as losing coaches; THEIR RECORD labels them as losing coaches.
> 
> Dillard was 29-51 (.363) @ ISU & 93-106 (.467) @ James Madison; career NCAA Div I record of 122-157 (.437)
> McKenna was 89-33 (.730) @ Div II Neb-Omaha* & 43-52 (.453) @ ISU; career NCAA Div I record 43-52 (.453); career NCAA HC record of 132-85 (.606)
> 
> Dillard is 64, McKenna is 61; arguably, their days as NCAA Div I Head Coaches are over; will history be kind to them?
> 
> Lansing was 52 in Dec, he may coach another 10 years at the Div I level, why not wait until Lansing's HC career is over and THEN assess his career?
> 
> It's irrelavent if you believe he has no business being the current MBB coach @ Indiana State, he's under contract, he has a winning record, there are no off court scandals with the players, certainly nothing like at other schools, by all accounts the players graduate
> 
> Will he be back when his contract expires?   Only the future will tell
> 
> IF ISU was going to fire him, They Would Have Fired Him By This Point.
> 
> I can type that slower, I'm not certain it'll be understood.



I've been very clear I don't think he'll be fired because the university can't afford it. I think it's also clear (given the rollover contract ended after his second losing season) that he wouldn't still be coach if not for it.


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## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> I've been very clear I don't think he'll be fired because the university can't afford it. I think it's also clear (given the rollover contract ended after his second losing season) that he wouldn't still be coach if not for it.



I think it's the fact that ISU would have been required to buy him out, roll-over contract or not.  Fully expect to eat new coach on the sideline spring (post-season) 2021.

Let's hope Clinkscales hires someone "better"


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> Let hope Clinkscales hires someone "better"



This much we 100 percent agree on. I'm hopeful, but no, I don't think finding great coaches is easy. And I don't think Waltman was a bad coach, I don't think Lansing has been either. It's just when coaches stick around this long and the best they can do is hovering at or below .500 for more than half a decade, you need to start fresh and hope the next guy is a coaching diamond in the rough.


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## Westbadenboy

4Q
Lansing has not been a horrible coach but very much less than average.
And why...why do you keep ignoring the most basic point that many of us have made over and over again.
Lansing only ….only winning seasons have been with Jake Odum on the floor.  He is not a .500 without Jake Odum.  He's pretty far below that.
Please reply to that point ...please.
And finally ---- one more time -- not championship talent any of the past few years but definitely talent enough to have winning records in each one of the past five seasons.  Please reply to that one also --- not your other points.  They may have some validity but you are not addressing the two major points above.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Westbadenboy said:


> 4Q
> Lansing has not been a horrible coach but very much less than average.
> And why...why do you keep ignoring the most basic point that many of us have made over and over again.
> Lansing only ….only winning seasons have been with Jake Odum on the floor.  He is not a .500 without Jake Odum.  He's pretty far below that.
> Please reply to that point ...please.
> And finally ---- one more time -- not championship talent any of the past few years but definitely talent enough to have winning records in each one of the past five seasons.  Please reply to that one also --- not your other points.  They may have some validity but you are not addressing the two major points above.





Please name me any, ANY NCAA Div I MBB coach that wins without talent.  Please.

Quick, tell me what Bob Kings' record was without Larry Bird?

There are a LARGE number of coaches who's career record are skewed by 1-2 players or classes.

Yes, Lansing's record with Odum is different (better) 79-55 (.590) than without him;  including this season, Lasing is 84-98 (.462) since Odum completed his eligibility.

However, some on this board feel Lansing was 130-4 with Odum and hasn't won a game since he left;   the truth, the FACTS, Lansing is effective a .500 coach without Odum.

Odds are we'll split our final 4 games, they may surprise and go 3-1 or 1-3

I'll beat this dead horse, again; having lived through the Ron Greene experiment, Lansing is the "best" MBB coach I've watched at Indiana State, Waltman is a close second.

The rest, very forgettable; for those that want to laud Dillard and McKenna... meh, if McKenna was so fucking great, he'd have stayed and risen to the challenge; he chose to chase $$, so be it.  Good riddance.  He's a losing coach at the Div I level, I'm not saying that -- HIS RECORD says that; at the moment, Lansing is a WINNING coach at the Div I level.  Again,  I'm not saying that -- HIS RECORD says that.

I can type that s-l-o-w-e-r but I doubt some could understand​


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## Daveinth

HAHA bob and weave as usual cannot answer questions without the help of good old Wikipedia. This is why you are clueless when it comes to legitimate conversations . Nobody gives a Rats ass about McKenna or Dillard or the "green experiment" this discussion is about the horrible job being done at Indiana State University NOW . Not in the past or whatever stats you can google .  Maybe if we type it  S-----L----O----W-----E------ R You can get a clue.


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## 4Q_iu

Daveinth said:


> HAHA bob and weave as usual cannot answer questions without the help of good old Wikipedia. This is why you are clueless when it comes to legitimate conversations . Nobody gives a Rats ass about McKenna or Dillard or the "green experiment" this discussion is about the horrible job being done at Indiana State University NOW . Not in the past or whatever stats you can google .  Maybe if we type it  S-----L----O----W-----E------ R You can get a clue.



Bob and Weave this, asshole.  Who has been a better ISU coach than Lansing in the past 25 years?

Your inability to understand basic facts is sad.

Luckily for you, there are programs to assist.  Recommend you contact your local social worker


----------



## Hooper

Daveinth said:


> HAHA bob and weave as usual cannot answer questions without the help of good old Wikipedia. This is why you are clueless when it comes to legitimate conversations . Nobody gives a Rats ass about McKenna or Dillard or the "green experiment" this discussion is about the horrible job being done at Indiana State University NOW . Not in the past or whatever stats you can google .  Maybe if we type it  S-----L----O----W-----E------ R You can get a clue.



Horrible?  They’ve won almost every home game and will be at least .500.  And the “home” is a construction zone full of rodents and feces.  All the while having the lowest budget in the conference by a country mile.  Literally hundreds of thousands behind the second-to-worst budget.  And they just beat the top team in the league—a team that has been in and out of bubble discussions most of the season.

Lansing is a good coach and another win or two and we’ll be talking contract extensions, not firings.  Sorry.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> Horrible?  They’ve won almost every home game and will be at least .500.  And the “home” is a construction zone full of rodents and feces.  All the while having the lowest budget in the conference by a country mile.  Literally hundreds of thousands behind the second-to-worst budget.  And they just beat the top team in the league—a team that has been in and out of bubble discussions most of the season.
> 
> Lansing is a good coach and another win or two and we’ll be talking contract extensions, not firings.  Sorry.



Lord help us if the powers that be sign on for another extension for "Your Great One". Might as well get out of the Valley and drop to D2 if he stays around and then start taking a head-count of the fans in the stands. ............ lol.


----------



## Daveinth

Hooper said:


> Horrible?  They’ve won almost every home game and will be at least .500.  And the “home” is a construction zone full of rodents and feces.  All the while having the lowest budget in the conference by a country mile.  Literally hundreds of thousands behind the second-to-worst budget.  And they just beat the top team in the league—a team that has been in and out of bubble discussions most of the season.
> 
> Lansing is a good coach and another win or two and we’ll be talking contract extensions, not firings.  Sorry.



Here is $5 maybe that will allow GL to gain a little more knowledge about the game . Shoving money at a guy will not make him any better than he is now. Blame it on Hulman Center, Blame it on the president of the university  blame it on whomever you want hell blame Barrack Obama but the facts are giving him more money does not increase his coaching ability  it  only rewards mediocrity .


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lord help us if the powers that be sign on for another extension for "Your Great One". Might as well get out of the Valley and drop to D2 if he stays around and then start taking a head-count of the fans in the stands. ............ lol.



Well tomorrow is the Lord’s day.  You might want to plan a trip to your favorite house of worship because a win tomorrow guarantees a winning season....and a probable Lansing extension.

Of course, you’d be praying for ISU to lose—so there’s that.


----------



## Hooper

Daveinth said:


> Here is $5 maybe that will allow GL to gain a little more knowledge about the game . Shoving money at a guy will not make him any better than he is now. Blame it on Hulman Center, Blame it on the president of the university  blame it on whomever you want hell blame Barrack Obama but the facts are giving him more money does not increase his coaching ability  it  only rewards mediocrity .



Well if I get a mediocre car for the price of a jalopy, then yes, that is a good thing.


----------



## sycamore tuff

4Q_iu said:


> Please name me any, ANY NCAA Div I MBB coach that wins without talent.  Please.
> 
> *Quick, tell me what Bob Kings' record was without Larry Bird?*
> 
> There are a LARGE number of coaches who's career record are skewed by 1-2 players or classes.
> 
> Yes, Lansing's record with Odum is different (better) 79-55 (.590) than without him;  including this season, Lasing is 84-98 (.462) since Odum completed his eligibility.
> 
> However, some on this board feel Lansing was 130-4 with Odum and hasn't won a game since he left;   the truth, the FACTS, Lansing is effective a .500 coach without Odum.
> 
> Odds are we'll split our final 4 games, they may surprise and go 3-1 or 1-3
> 
> I'll beat this dead horse, again; having lived through the Ron Greene experiment, Lansing is the "best" MBB coach I've watched at Indiana State, Waltman is a close second.
> 
> The rest, very forgettable; for those that want to laud Dillard and McKenna... meh, if McKenna was so fucking great, he'd have stayed and risen to the challenge; he chose to chase $$, so be it.  Good riddance.  He's a losing coach at the Div I level, I'm not saying that -- HIS RECORD says that; at the moment, Lansing is a WINNING coach at the Div I level.  Again,  I'm not saying that -- HIS RECORD says that.
> 
> I can type that s-l-o-w-e-r but I doubt some could understand​



In ten seasons as Lobo head coach, King compiled a record of 175-89 (.663)
His record at ISU was 61-24 (72%)


----------



## Bob Evans

61-24 was King's record including the Bird years. 13-12 without him. So, effectively without a really good player, he was the same as the .500 coach you are all complaining about. I have been around ISU basketball long enough to remember that people griped about Bob King's coaching DURING the Bird years. They second guessed his coaching decisions, his parceling of playing time, etc. Sound familiar?

Hodges was 34-47 without Bird.

Also I don't appreciate the personal attack, calling me out like that. Why don't all of you who aren't satisfied find a team whose coach you do like and be a "fan" of that team? I only would feel sorry for whatever team you affiliate yourselves with.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

I honestly think the discussion has run it's course. To pivot, for those that want a change (or even those that don't) what do you think the expectation should be for whomever is coaching the Sycamores. No bullshit cop out answers, either. SPECIFICS.

What is the yearly overall record you expect, the conference record you expect, your postseason expectations, etc. Spell them out. I'm curious to see where you believe the program should stand as funded today -- the $1.75m to 2.25m mark is the range I believe we've seen for the last 5 years.


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamore tuff said:


> In ten seasons as Lobo head coach, King compiled a record of 175-89 (.663)
> His record at ISU was 61-24 (72%)




Correct and in his ten seasons with the Lobos, Ol' Bob King had 6 future NBAers, including Hall of Famer Mel Daniels...

Again, much easier to "look like a great coach" when you have talent, NBA talent


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> I honestly think the discussion has run it's course. To pivot, for those that want a change (or even those that don't) what do you think the expectation should be for whomever is coaching the Sycamores. No bullshit cop out answers, either. SPECIFICS.
> 
> What is the yearly overall record you expect, the conference record you expect, your postseason expectations, etc. Spell them out. I'm curious to see where you believe the program should stand as funded today -- the $1.75m to 2.25m mark is the range I believe we've seen for the last 5 years.



All answers are playing our current schedule, 31+ games inclu a MTE and remaining in the Valley (18 gm, round robin conf schedule)


Overall Record:  21-10

Conf Record:     12-6


Post-Season:  in a four year period, 1-2 trips to the NCAA and 1-2 trips to the NIT


----------



## Sycamorefan96

My goal is pretty realistic. Average 10 MVC wins over a 4 year period. If we can do that then we are probably finishing in the top half of the conference often and Thursday's are a rarity. If you are finishing in the top half of the conference you are also probably good enough to actually make a run and give yourselves a chance in the MVC tournament.

Here is our MVC win total for each year he has been here.

Y1= 12
Y2= 8
Y3= 9
Y4= 12; AVERAGE= 10.25
Y5= 11; AVERAGE= 10 (years 2-5)
Y6= 8; AVERAGE= 10 (y3-6)
Y7= 5; AVERAGE= 9 (y4-7)
Y8= 8; AVERAGE= 8 (y5-8)
Y9= 7; AVERAGE= 7 (y6-9)


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Sycamorefan96 said:


> My goal is pretty realistic. Average 10 MVC wins over a 4 year period. If we can do that then we are probably finishing in the top half of the conference often and Thursday's are a rarity. If you are finishing in the top half of the conference you are also probably good enough to actually make a run and give yourselves a chance in the MVC tournament.
> 
> Here is our MVC win total for each year he has been here.
> 
> Y1= 12
> Y2= 8
> Y3= 9
> Y4= 12; AVERAGE= 10.25
> Y5= 11; AVERAGE= 10 (years 2-5)
> Y6= 8; AVERAGE= 10 (y3-6)
> Y7= 5; AVERAGE= 9 (y4-7)
> Y8= 8; AVERAGE= 8 (y5-8)
> Y9= 7; AVERAGE= 7 (y6-9)



What place finish does a 10 win average account for every year?


----------



## Hooper

Jason Svoboda said:


> I honestly think the discussion has run it's course. To pivot, for those that want a change (or even those that don't) what do you think the expectation should be for whomever is coaching the Sycamores. No bullshit cop out answers, either. SPECIFICS.
> 
> What is the yearly overall record you expect, the conference record you expect, your postseason expectations, etc. Spell them out. I'm curious to see where you believe the program should stand as funded today -- the $1.75m to 2.25m mark is the range I believe we've seen for the last 5 years.



It’s reasonable to expect to be below .500 but if you have a good coach that can overcome some of ISU’s limitations (which is what Lansing is) you can hover closer to .500.  And that’s what he’s done.  Three of the five “losing seasons” were only one or two games below .500.  And yes, 2016-17 and 17-18 were bad seasons.  You’ll have those given our unique challenges at ISU.  This year is going ok so far overall, better than ok at home.  And when you get a diamond in the rough like a Menser or Odum things get interesting.  Change for change’s sake like bringing in Jason Gardner (as suggested by some on here) would drastically lower my expectations.

10-win conference seasons get you around 5th in the MVC.  Getting there every year, even with Lansing here, is a tall order when we’re outspent by such a wide margin in the recruiting wars.   So we’ll be 7th some years.  4th, 5th, 6th in others.  Every once in a while it can get real bad and finish 8th or 9th. Again, you’ll have that when you’re the worst-funded program in the league.  On the flip-side, when you have a good recruiter like Lansing every once in a while a 2nd or 3rd with a sneak into the NCAA or NIT happens.  It’s what a realist that understands college basketball should expect if your staff isn’t cheating.  So those are my expectations.

The above is not what I want or hope to aspire to, but it’s our reality so long as Curtis and McKee (and the legacy of Dan Bradley) are in charge of the money.  And this “new” Hulman Center does not count as some sort of game-changing investment in the program.  Had they not screwed up the budgeting/bid projections and built the better one it might.  But from what I’ve seen the finished product will simply play catch-up and bring the HC into the 21st century (note we’re already 20 years into this century).  The design by Ratio would have raised my expectations as it would have been one of the best mid-major arenas in America but our leadership decided we can’t have nice things.

Water finds it’s level fellas.  And we’re floating at a tide higher than we actually deserve all things considered.


----------



## Daveinth

While I have dropped out of the Greg Lansing fan club (something I struggled doing ) I fully understand that yes we are underfunded and yes that puts  limits on the program . I do not think anyone will deny these facts. However frustrating it may be the coaching staff has to be held responsible for the success of the program. This year in particular we have the talent to be a top three team, Hooper you said it in your previous post that GL is a good recruiter and I do not deny this he has brought a lot of talent to Terre Haute. The problem is the development of this talent just does not happen Many times the team looks unprepared, unmotivated and just goes thru the motions .  These are coaching and leadership problems . I work for the federal government and I understand funding issues and the restraints that it puts on the organization as a whole however I am still expected to perform my job duties that I agreed to do for the amount of money I agreed to accept to perform my job . This is no less than any other employed American . If I do not perform to the expectations that were put upon me from day one I will either be fired or asked to move to another job. Most on here have Bosses that will tell you when you are doing great and bitch you out when you are no longer performing as you are expected . I personally have to answer to both those that are hired above me and the veterans that I serve . If I do not perform my duties much like a coach has to answer to the fans I have to face my fellow veterans and explain why I am under-performing . Maybe Clink should bear some of the burden for not holding Lansing to a higher standard . Sometimes you have to make apple butter out of shit . 

My expectations every year is that we finish above .500 and top 5  in the league . Occasional post season games and by post season I mean NIT at worst none of these if you finish above .500 you can pay to play in this tournament crap . I had a Gunny when I was in the Marine Corps who used to tell us “You can piss on my head all day and tell me its raining but at the end of the day its still piss” The CBI/ CIT are not post season games . If you build a program of success people will come to the games, Sponsors will advertise,recruits will want to play for you and the budget will increase . Can one do this in a years time ? No that is not reasonable . However after ten years you should have the program in a better position after 10 years than it was in year one .


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> It’s reasonable to expect to be below .500 but if you have a good coach that can overcome some of ISU’s limitations (which is what Lansing is) you can hover closer to .500.  And that’s what he’s done.  Three of the five “losing seasons” were only one or two games below .500.  And yes, 2016-17 and 17-18 were bad seasons.  You’ll have those given our unique challenges at ISU.  This year is going ok so far overall, better than ok at home.  And when you get a diamond in the rough like a Menser or Odum things get interesting.  Change for change’s sake like bringing in Jason Gardner (as suggested by some on here) would drastically lower my expectations.
> 
> 10-win conference seasons get you around 5th in the MVC.  Getting there every year, even with Lansing here, is a tall order when we’re outspent by such a wide margin in the recruiting wars.   So we’ll be 7th some years.  4th, 5th, 6th in others.  Every once in a while it can get real bad and finish 8th or 9th. Again, you’ll have that when you’re the worst-funded program in the league.  On the flip-side, when you have a good recruiter like Lansing every once in a while a 2nd or 3rd with a sneak into the NCAA or NIT happens.  It’s what a realist that understands college basketball should expect if your staff isn’t cheating.  So those are my expectations.
> 
> The above is not what I want or hope to aspire to, but it’s our reality so long as Curtis and McKee (and the legacy of Dan Bradley) are in charge of the money.  And this “new” Hulman Center does not count as some sort of game-changing investment in the program.  Had they not screwed up the budgeting/bid projections and built the better one it might.  But from what I’ve seen the finished product will simply play catch-up and bring the HC into the 21st century (note we’re already 20 years into this century).  The design by Ratio would have raised my expectations as it would have been one of the best mid-major arenas in America but our leadership decided we can’t have nice things.
> 
> Water finds it’s level fellas.  And we’re floating at a tide higher than we actually deserve all things considered.



You don't have very high expectations and your view is obviously clouded when you accept .500 or a little less as reasonable. A monkey could have achieved better results over the last 5 years and not much better this present season with more talent on hand. And never even sniff playing in the NCAA or even the NIT again. Time for change!


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Daveinth said:


> While I have dropped out of the Greg Lansing fan club (something I struggled doing ) I fully understand that yes we are underfunded and yes that puts  limits on the program . I do not think anyone will deny these facts. However frustrating it may be the coaching staff has to be held responsible for the success of the program. This year in particular we have the talent to be a top three team, Hooper you said it in your previous post that GL is a good recruiter and I do not deny this he has brought a lot of talent to Terre Haute. The problem is the development of this talent just does not happen Many times the team looks unprepared, unmotivated and just goes thru the motions .  These are coaching and leadership problems . I work for the federal government and I understand funding issues and the restraints that it puts on the organization as a whole however I am still expected to perform my job duties that I agreed to do for the amount of money I agreed to accept to perform my job . This is no less than any other employed American . If I do not perform to the expectations that were put upon me from day one I will either be fired or asked to move to another job. Most on here have Bosses that will tell you when you are doing great and bitch you out when you are no longer performing as you are expected . I personally have to answer to both those that are hired above me and the veterans that I serve . If I do not perform my duties much like a coach has to answer to the fans I have to face my fellow veterans and explain why I am under-performing . Maybe Clink should bear some of the burden for not holding Lansing to a higher standard . Sometimes you have to make apple butter out of shit .
> 
> My expectations every year is that we finish above .500 and top 5  in the league . Occasional post season games and by post season I mean NIT at worst none of these if you finish above .500 you can pay to play in this tournament crap . I had a Gunny when I was in the Marine Corps who used to tell us “You can piss on my head all day and tell me its raining but at the end of the day its still piss” The CBI/ CIT are not post season games . If you build a program of success people will come to the games, Sponsors will advertise,recruits will want to play for you and the budget will increase . Can one do this in a years time ? No that is not reasonable . However after ten years you should have the program in a better position after 10 years than it was in year one .



A great and truthful post.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Thanks Daveinth...right on.
Again those of you defending the present situation keep repeating and repeating the same crap -- ignoring the points most of us who prefer a change keep making.  
1) Don't have championship talent (probably due to low budget) --- we agree.  Is Lansing doing a good job coaching the kids he does get to ISU ?
NO
2) Do Lansing's players often play way below their level of talent (yes this happens to all teams ocassionally) ?
YES  ------ Pretty frequently
3) Do players often seem disinterested and unmotivated ?  (yes this happens sometimes to all players/teams) ?
YES  --- Pretty frequently
4) Does Lansing continue to show strange coaching strategies (OK maybe all coaches sometimes do things that don't seem productive and are counterproductive) ?
YES  --- Pretty frequently
5) Do players recruited by Lansing seem like they do not develop and improve from year 1 to year 4 (yes there a few exemptions) ?
YES --- there is very frequently a lack of improvement in skills and performance during player careers
6) Is there a continuing pattern that occurs year in and year out with Lansing's teams that move a promising season to another disappointing one (ok not the first 3-4 years ….see Jake Odum) ?
YES  -- See last 5 seasons records
7) Math Quiz --- can a very average coach accumulate 150 wins in a program without really being a good coach ?
YES  -- basically going  15 - 15 each  season for 10 years -- so being the or one of the "winningest" coaches in a program's or conference history can be a product of longevity, not coaching skills
There's probably more items to list, but all the above are real and true.  And those defending the present situation seem never to address most/any of them.


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## Westbadenboy

*So .......*

So do not judge a coach by the record he has with great players.
Judge him on how well his team does with the players he actually has on his team/
Bill Hodges I think did a pretty good job in 78-79 when he had Larry Bird on the team.
But with an excellent corp of players (no not NCAA Final Four talent -- but very good talent at the MVC level) returning in 79-80 he proved to be a poor or average coach at best.  That team performed at a vastly lower level than they should have and as Hodge's career showed in the next few years he really was not a very good coach.  Check his career jobs after leaving ISU.

I will gladly discuss/debate any points I've made in this post or the previous ones --- if you still want to just discuss budget, poor condition of Hulman Center, all the money Lansing's buddies give to the program, etc. I have no time or interest in any of those.
None of them have ANY thing to do with whether or not Greg Lansing is a good basketball coach.


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## landrus13

I find it baffling that people wanna give a guy an extension just because he finishes over .500. That's really low standards. Lansing won the MVC tournament his first year. What has he done since?? Hasn't made the championship game since 2014. He's finished 6th, 9th, 6th, and 8th the last 4 years. Probably gonna be around 5-8 this year too. That warrants an extension?? He has a record of 84-98 since the championship game in 2014. Hasn't finished above .500 in MVC play since 2014-2015. Might change this year, we'll see.


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## Sycamorefan96

Jason Svoboda said:


> What place finish does a 10 win average account for every year?



Y1= 12 wins and a 3rd place finish
Y2= 8W / 8P
Y3= 9W / 5P
Y4= 12W / 2P (AVERAGE= 10.25W / 4.5P)
Y5= 11W / 3P (A= 10W / 4.5P)
Y6= 8W / 6P (A= 10W / 4P)
Y7= 5W / 9P (A= 9W / 5P)
Y8= 8W / 6P (A= 8W / 6P)
Y9= 7W / 8P (A= 7W / 7.25P)

So my 10 win goal on average over a 4 year period gets us a 4th or 5th place average finish. Some years you get 2nd or 3rd and sometimes you get a Thursday result. Over the last 4 years we have averaged a Thursday finish which I don't think is acceptable at all. We also haven't hit 10 wins once in the last 4 seasons and our average is 3 games below 10. 

From years 7-9 we were on a steady decline. Meanwhile the attendance has also declined. We have to win somewhat consistently if we are going to draw. Hopefully we win another game or two this season. I will calculate the results once this season is over.

Other stats of interest. From years 1-6 when we were meeting my goal we had 4 Saturdays in St Louis and 2 Sunday's. We haven't made it past Friday the years we have not reached the 10W average.


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## sycamore tuff

Jason Svoboda said:


> What place finish does a 10 win average account for every year?



Last year 10 wins got you tied for 3rd.  This year it will probably be 5th.


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## sycamore tuff

Since the year 2000 10 wins gets an average finish of 4.3

3rd place= 5 times (1 team in ncaa 4 times, 2 teams in ncaa 1 time)
4th place= 7 times (1 team in ncaa 4 times, 2 teams in ncaa 3 times)
5th place= 6 times (2 teams in ncaa each time except for 2005(3 teams in ncaa))
6th place= 1 time  (2016 2 teams in ncaa)
7th place= 1 time (2006 4 teams in ncaa)

Based on this the 5th place team needs to have 10 wins for the conference to get more than 1 team in the ncaa tournament.

One more item of interest.  The last time the MVC was ranked #1 in the country was 1967.


----------



## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> I honestly think the discussion has run it's course. To pivot, for those that want a change (or even those that don't) what do you think the expectation should be for whomever is coaching the Sycamores. No bullshit cop out answers, either. SPECIFICS.
> 
> What is the yearly overall record you expect, the conference record you expect, your postseason expectations, etc. Spell them out. I'm curious to see where you believe the program should stand as funded today -- the $1.75m to 2.25m mark is the range I believe we've seen for the last 5 years.



Overall: No more than two consecutive seasons with a losing record. Get 18 or more wins at least every every third or fourth year and back-to-back winning seasons at least every five years. We play a weak non-conference most years with at least one D2 opponent, so shouldn't be that hard.

In conference: Pretty close to the same. No more than two consecutive losing seasons. This isn't the same MVC it was when we had Creighton and Wichita State to deal with. If it's too tough for us given our budget, move to a conference where we can compete. Do better than two road wins on the year. For those who keep saying it's tough to win road games in conference, sure, but only three MVC teams have two or fewer road wins to this point in the season and one of them is us.

Post-season: No more than two consecutive seasons playing on Thursday. Win a tournament game at least every three to four years, especially if you're playing on Thursday.

That's just off the top of my head. What I'm attempting to describe is a team that is average to above average at least half the time over the course of four years. 

What do you think the expectations should be?


----------



## Hooper

I again regret to be the bearer of bad news for some of you.... ISU is now guaranteed a winning season. #SORRYNOTSORRY


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> I again regret to be the bearer of bad news for some of you.... ISU is now guaranteed a winning season. #SORRYNOTSORRY



Lansing was very lucky today. Lickliter with little to no talent & riding a 15 game losing streak in the MVC damned near beat him. It has taken the great one SIX (6) YEARS to get a team over .500. FIRE GREG LANSING!


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lansing was very lucky today. Lickliter with little to no talent & riding a 15 game losing streak in the MVC damned near beat him. It has taken the great one SIX (6) YEARS to get a team over .500. FIRE GREG LANSING!



There he is with the patented negativity!  Even after a road win that keeps us in 5th solo.  You just can’t help yourself.

I’ll bet you’re all sorts of fun at parties.


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lansing was very lucky today. Lickliter with little to no talent & riding a 15 game losing streak in the MVC damned near beat him. It has taken the great one SIX (6) YEARS to get a team over .500. FIRE GREG LANSING!



Man dude, life is too short to be so negative all the time. I don’t know you and your circumstances, but I sure hope your life is better than you portray yourself on this board, but you do you.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

At this point I think he has probably done enough to where I hope to see Lansing back next year. I was getting really frustrated after the 3 game losing streak, but he apparently has righted the ship again. Hopefully we can finish strong, avoid Thursday, and pull an upset in St Louis.

Honestly we should all hope that this season is beginning of a turnaround and that next season we continue to improve. I would prefer to keep Lansing as our coach as I actually think he cares about the program. With that said I also don't want to lose for the next 10 years just because he runs a clean program and knows some donors.


----------



## niklz62

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lansing was very lucky today. Lickliter with little to no talent & riding a 15 game losing streak in the MVC damned near beat him. It has taken the great one SIX (6) YEARS to get a team over .500. FIRE GREG LANSING!



I would say that Evansville was lucky today.  they started off with 2 fouls on one of the most game influencing players on our team.  They also got away with us missing about 5 shots from inside 6 feet, a couple being right under the basket.  I cant think of anything that went our way and we pulled out a win on the road bring us to a 2-1 road win/home loss in the conference.  Id say GLs's biggest luck was playing a couple teams who were short on players.


----------



## Jackson0330

Jason Svoboda said:


> I honestly think the discussion has run it's course. To pivot, for those that want a change (or even those that don't) what do you think the expectation should be for whomever is coaching the Sycamores. No bullshit cop out answers, either. SPECIFICS.
> 
> What is the yearly overall record you expect, the conference record you expect, your postseason expectations, etc. Spell them out. I'm curious to see where you believe the program should stand as funded today -- the $1.75m to 2.25m mark is the range I believe we've seen for the last 5 years.




Honestly, all I want is a coach that can consistently beat the SIU’s and Missouri State’s on the road and be competitive in the tournament.  If you can win where they’ve never one speaks volumes about a coach and his ability to overcome the norm. Peaking late goes a long way how a coach can adjust and improve as the year goes on.  You don’t have to win.  That’s not what it’s about.  It’s about improvement and competing as the year goes on, which we rarely see. The point down the stretch hasn’t gotten across and even in Odum years the regression was obvious -minus the 2014 MVC run with a blowout in the championship.  It you improve and compete down the stretch than the coach has made his point clear to how a team can get better as the year goes on win, lose, or record aside.  Play the game with passion, which has been lacking as of late.  It’s easier said than done being a student athlete. We all need to take that into consideration.  I’ve not seen that in the Lansing Era til’ this season, but the jury is out.

So, to me show-up come tournament time is what I’d like regardless of record.  Just get better as the year goes on slows the commitment by the players and coaches alike.  Either way, change is imminent and Lansing has ran his course.  11 years is too long at one stop.  The convention center will open next year and it’s time for a new start. By the mass exodus of season ticket holders bolting over the last several years as evidence of the yearly crowds dwindling involvement its crystal clear they’ve lost faith in this coach and the health of this program.  You just can’t trust the process.


----------



## Bob Evans

I just knew there would be some who would refuse to count this as a win because we had better players. I was there. It was ugly and it looked very bleak for most of the game. There were lots of boneheaded plays on both sides. But it was a road win even though the Sycamores played horribly - that's a rare feat so I'll take it. Every win from here out is huge. ISU still has an outside shot at 20 with the MVC and some sort of post season games.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lansing was very lucky today. Lickliter with little to no talent & riding a 15 game losing streak in the MVC damned near beat him. It has taken the great one SIX (6) YEARS to get a team over .500. FIRE GREG LANSING!




Lucky or not, the Trees walked out with another win, I'm sure it pains you to read that simple statement.

as to your six yr's perspective; Lansing as a coach has been over .500 since 9 Feb 2011, the Trees' 5th road win that season.  That win pushed the Trees to 13-12 on the 2010-11 season, his cumulative record since that point has never dipped below .500, yet even reach .500.

Yes, 5 consecutive losing seasons, 3 being ~.500; 2 were bad, this season, the Trees will finish over .500 overall and (at worst) .500 in the Valley.

All areas for improvement but Lansing will fulfill his contract; save your bitching til next season approaches.


----------



## niklz62

Im not sure if this thread should be titled "buy out GL's contract now" or "Dont offer a new contract after next year"

I have much less of an objection to the 2nd but I'd need to see what happens over the course of the next year to decide on that.


----------



## Jackson0330

niklz62 said:


> Im not sure if this thread should be titled "buy out GL's contract now" or "Dont offer a new contract after next year"
> 
> I have much less of an objection to the 2nd but I'd need to see what happens over the course of the next year to decide on that.



11 years is too long of a stint for someone at ISU.  After awhile you wear out your welcome, which is the case here and the result of the stagnation that can plague a program.  It’s not like Lansing didn’t try, but it’s time to move in a different direction and inject new life into the program regardless of the outcome. Change is imminent regardless of his success leading forward.   Just my opinion though.  Hopefully the Athletic Department learns from their mistake in this one.  Don’t sign a coach long term or too a rollover. It creates complacency or “The Silver Platter Syndrome,” so too speak. There’s nobody knocking down your door to hire him. Again, just my opinion.  We all have our opinions, which none are full proof, but offer a glimpse into the reality of the program over the years.

Let’s face it.  We’re the Cubs of the MoVal.  They want to show us a good time, but they’ve not made a total commitment to winning.  Until then play the coaching lottery and hope your investment pays off in 5 years. Make it a successful stepping stone like a Tulsa, VCU, College of Charleston, etc. It’s basketball country for goodness sake.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jackson0330 said:


> 11 years is too long of a stint for someone at ISU.  After awhile you wear out your welcome, which is the case here and the result of the stagnation that can plague a program.  It’s not like Lansing didn’t try, but it’s time to move in a different direction and inject new life into the program regardless of the outcome. Change is imminent regardless of his success leading forward.   Just my opinion though.  Hopefully the Athletic Department learns from their mistake in this one.  Don’t sign a coach long term or too a rollover. It creates complacency or “The Silver Platter Syndrome,” do you speak. There’s nobody knocking down your door to hire him. Again, just my opinion.  We all have our opinions, which none are full proof, but offer a glimpse into the reality of the state of the program.




So, Bob Warn (30+ years) should have been dismissed after his 11th season?   Or John McNichols (34 years)

I remember people calling for Dennis Raetz's head around the 11 year mark or earlier


often times the rollover is as much about fighting negative recruiting than keeping suitors at bay


----------



## Jackson0330

4Q_iu said:


> So, Bob Warn (30+ years) should have been dismissed after his 11th season?   Or John McNichols (34 years)
> 
> I remember people calling for Dennis Raetz's head around the 11 year mark or earlier
> 
> 
> often times the rollover is as much about fighting negative recruiting than keeping suitors at bay



I can’t argue that fact on recruiting. That factors in more than you think.  It’s sink or swim. 

I just think the stress has weighed heavily on the guy.  When it’s your flagship program and the expectations were amplified by the 2011 run it showed what the program was capable of. I’ve seen Lansing age more in the last six years than our past presidents.  I believe both could use a fresh start and the outcome could benefit both.  

There’s no expectation on track and baseball. Warn’s final 20 years there was more bad years then good and the marriage between State and McNichols was forever bless his soul. Hannah’s has earned his mark and is Sycamore Baseball just like McNichols.  Although Lansing has done a lot of good things in a program like ISU with the budget and support it should be a catalyst for an up and coming young coach with pedigree.  So, I believe this job is short term for anybody. It’d be different if we’d draw better, but it is what it is.  

His got another year to catch lighting in a bottle.  If he does then give him the benefit of the doubt.  In general, if he’d have a better road record and a better tournament results regardless of winning or losing we’d have no argument.  Thats all we can ask for. That’s not been the case unfortunately for Lansing as of late.  You see in 2011 he set a standard of excellence for the program that he’s not been able withhold. That’s the issue.  If you can’t sustain it than you move on and give both parties a chance for a fresh start.  Don’t be selfish.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jackson0330 said:


> I can’t argue that fact on recruiting. That factors in more than you think.  It’s sink or swim.
> 
> I just think the stress has weighed heavily on the guy.  When it’s your flagship program and the expectations were amplified by the 2011 run it showed what the program was capable of.* I’ve seen Lansing age more in the last six years than our past presidents.  I believe both could use a fresh start and the outcome could benefit both. *
> 
> There’s no expectation on track and baseball. Warn’s final 20 years there was more bad years then good and the marriage between State and McNichols was forever bless his soul. Hannah’s has earned his mark and is Sycamore Baseball just like McNichols.  Although Lansing has done a lot of good things in a program like ISU with the budget and support it should be a catalyst for an up and coming young coach with pedigree.  So, I believe this job is short term for anybody. It’d be different if we’d draw better, but it is what it is.
> 
> His got another year to catch lighting in a bottle.  If he does then give him the benefit of the doubt.  In general, if he’d have a better road record and a better tournament results regardless of winning or losing we’d have no argument.  Thats all we can ask for. That’s not been the case unfortunately for Lansing as of late.  You see in 2011 he set a standard of excellence for the program that he’s not been able withhold. That’s the issue.  If you can’t sustain it than you move on and give both parties a chance for a fresh start.  Don’t be selfish.




Lansing aged more than Pres'?  Of The US or ISU?    Regardless, both are laughable -- I haven't spoken with Lansing is several years (maybe a mixer at the 2014 ArchMadness) but he sure looks the same on TV now as he did then...   I ain't buyin' your 'aging argument'


I don't see ISU replacing Lansing w/ an "up and comer w/ pedigree..."  our budget doesn't allow it and even if we DID land an Up/Come w/ Ped, they're going to bolt as soon as McKenna, Meegs or Heller did...    that's a far more vicious cycle, just look how well that's fared for us on the football side...

Will there be a 'fresh start' for the 2021-2022 season?   I'll be shocked if there isn't -- Admin had better knock it out of the park on the hire because the WORST thing anyone can say about Lansing; he's held the program on course.   10 years; double-digits Wins in every season, one truly crap MVC season (5-13) but in general we've been middle of the pack or 1-2 gms below OR over.   Hell in 2011-12, we finished 8th, which sounds like crap, until you look at the standings and half the Valley finished at 9-9.  Too many people will focus on "half the equation"

** UPDATE **

ISU was the only league team to go a perfect 2-0 over the last seven days with a home win over league-leading Northern Iowa and Sunday's thrilling 64-62 road victory over Evansville.​


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Jackson0330 said:


> 11 years is too long of a stint for someone at ISU.  After awhile you wear out your welcome, which is the case here and the result of the stagnation that can plague a program.  It’s not like Lansing didn’t try, but it’s time to move in a different direction and inject new life into the program regardless of the outcome. Change is imminent regardless of his success leading forward.   Just my opinion though.  Hopefully the Athletic Department learns from their mistake in this one.  Don’t sign a coach long term or too a rollover. It creates complacency or “The Silver Platter Syndrome,” so too speak. There’s nobody knocking down your door to hire him. Again, just my opinion.  We all have our opinions, which none are full proof, but offer a glimpse into the reality of the program over the years.
> 
> Let’s face it.  We’re the Cubs of the MoVal.  They want to show us a good time, but they’ve not made a total commitment to winning.  Until then play the coaching lottery and hope your investment pays off in 5 years. Make it a successful stepping stone like a Tulsa, VCU, College of Charleston, etc. It’s basketball country for goodness sake.



Lansing would be smart to find a new job on his own for next season. He will have a barely above .500 record for the first time in SIX YEARS and he won't get much traction for that "success" except for from a few of you with low expectations for ISU basketball. A below .500 next season would make it difficult for him to find another decent job due to his recent history track record. Losing three seniors who contribute a lot and having heaven forbid an injury or two along the way could seriously derail any hope he has of staying in the Haute much longer anyway. Go get'm GL - "make that call" !


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lansing would be smart to find a new job on his own for next season. He will have a barely above .500 record for the first time in SIX YEARS and he won't get much traction for that "success" except for from a few of you with low expectations for ISU basketball. A below .500 next season would make it difficult for him to find another decent job due to his recent history track record. Losing three seniors who contribute a lot and having heaven forbid an injury or two along the way could seriously derail any hope he has of staying in the Haute much longer anyway. Go get'm GL - "make that call" !




Did anyone hear something?

Maybe a idiot, lost from their village, pissing in their hat


----------



## Jackson0330

HOOPSFAN said:


> Lansing would be smart to find a new job on his own for next season. He will have a barely above .500 record for the first time in SIX YEARS and he won't get much traction for that "success" except for from a few of you with low expectations for ISU basketball. A below .500 next season would make it difficult for him to find another decent job due to his recent history track record. Losing three seniors who contribute a lot and having heaven forbid an injury or two along the way could seriously derail any hope he has of staying in the Haute much longer anyway. Go get'm GL - "make that call" !



Lansing knows this is as good as it will get for him. Why else agree to the rollover.  He won the lottery and we all got struck by lighting, There’s nobody knocking down his door to lead another program.  He’s got one more year and he’ll probably move back to Iowa and coach High school or Junior High Basketball.  Maybe open up a Seven Eleven or a Donut Shop and hire 4QTIP-IU as his baker. It’s getting about that time to make the donuts 4Q_IU. Maybe a great offer at the new concession stands at the C.C served right up on a Silver Platter that ISU will hand delivery courtesy of Lansing’s rollover itself served with with a side 4Sidekick_IU’s very own homemade Rocky Mountain Oysters.

On the contrary.  State could very well cover the +3.  The matrix shows they’re 6 points better then SIU, but we all know all too well where this will likely go. Good luck Hoopesfan and don’t feed into 4Q_IU insults. 5 years from now it’s not going to matter.  Dude is on an island. A lot like Napoleon Bonapart. 4Q_IU will soon be exiled away from SyPride when his Hookah budding is serving up 4Spicoli-EW’s slurpy at Mighty Mart. “Alright Hamilton!”

Hey Barbecued_IU (a.k.a. Mr. Mid-Atlantic) There’s an old saying from the Indiana Hoosiers of past, “Oh Indiana, Oh Indiana,  4Q_IU this post is not for you!”

That’s the ticket.  Lansing can start a Barbecue Restaurant with our taxpayers dollars and you can be his Pit Master.  Problem is the food is cold.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Wow!  You must have a really big headache this morning.


----------



## Buckhorn

sycamore tuff said:


> Wow!  You must have a really big headache this morning.



Likely took the "4Q Enema" and got the shitz! Let's just hope it's not the "4Q Coronavirus," which originated from the consumption of infected Merrymobile Ice Cream (recall George Dannheiser - Black Beauty Coal?) during the late 60's near the old Rex Mundi HS in Evansville.

Btw, when was the 1st season of Division I basketball for ISU? Look again...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_Conference

Poor 4Q, only knows what his KEYBOARD tells him...:cheeky:


----------



## landrus13

I don't want Lansing here after next season. I've stated my opinion. But I think this thread needs to be locked or die. It's toxic and now people are starting to name call. We're supposed to be a "fanbase" that roots in a common interest (ISU athletics). I root for ISU regardless of the coach. I may not like Lansing but that doesn't stop me from going to the games or watching on tv.


----------



## 4Q_iu

landrus13 said:


> I don't want Lansing here after next season. I've stated my opinion. But I think this thread needs to be locked or die. It's toxic and now people are starting to name call. We're supposed to be a "fanbase" that roots in a common interest (ISU athletics). I root for ISU regardless of the coach. I may not like Lansing but that doesn't stop me from going to the games or watching on tv.




 Fully expect a new MBB HC for the 2021-22 season; if ISU had the $$ to make a move earlier, they'd have done so.

 As to the rest; fans will continue to support, band-wagon jumpers will arrive, then depart

 This fan board is tame compared to many others; Jason has an excellent feature on this board; it's called the 'ignore' function -- try it, it's AMAZING how much dumb shit you WON'T see from every Tom, Dick, Harry, not to mention every Tina, Diane and Harriet

It's interesting that Jason allows some banned posters to return under other names, so be it; it's Jason's board.   With the ignore feature, it's just as easy to add the rest of the village idiots to the 'ignore' section.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I actually like hearing from all the morons that post on this board. It makes this place more interesting.


----------



## Jackson0330

Buckhorn said:


> Likely took the "4Q Enema" and got the shitz! Let's just hope it's not the "4Q Coronavirus," which originated from the consumption of infected Merrymobile Ice Cream (recall George Dannheiser - Black Beauty Coal?) during the late 60's near the old Rex Mundi HS in Evansville.
> 
> Btw, when was the 1st season of Division I basketball for ISU? Look again...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_Conference
> 
> Poor 4Q, only knows what his KEYBOARD tells him...:cheeky:



Ugh.....Please almighty Sycamore God could you please vanquish 4GreggyPo_ILOVEYOU from the this post.  May the Calgone Claus in the rollover of “The Great One” take him away. Maybe he can swim to the very depths of the Mid-Atlantic to discuss his excuses of mediocrity with the few blind fish that support his theories of docility.  In the great comedy Porky’s it was once said, “So say as the Shepard and so say as his Flock.” We all submit to his opinionated narcissism and agree to a life of futility in the corridors of Hulman Ctr.  under the tutelage of the Great Greg-Gadsby of coaching.  We submit and accept the directional abyss that he will lead us.  To health and humanity! To people of Sycamore Nation!  All rise for 4Q_IU is our redeemer.


----------



## Buckhorn

4Q gets around...just prior to the past week's visit by Pres. Trump.


----------



## Buckhorn

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I actually like hearing from all the morons that post on this board. It makes this place more interesting.



For someone who's only been posting since Fall, 2017...you've got a lot to learn.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jackson0330 said:


> Ugh.....Please almighty Sycamore God could you please vanquish 4GreggyPo_ILOVEYOU from the this post.  May the Calgone Claus in the rollover of “The Great One” take him away. Maybe he can swim to the very depths of the Mid-Atlantic to discuss his excuses of mediocrity with the few blind fish that support his theories of docility.  In the great comedy Porky’s it was once said, “So say as the Shepard and so say as his Flock.” We all submit to his opinionated narcissism and agree to a life of futility in the corridors of Hulman Ctr.  under the tutelage of the Great Greg-Gadsby of coaching.  We submit and accept the directional abyss that he will lead us.  To health and humanity! To people of Sycamore Nation!  All rise for 4Q_IU is our redeemer.



Blessed is he who, in the name  of charity and goodwill, shepherds the weak through the valley of  darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper, and the finder of lost  children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and  furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Buckhorn said:


> For someone who's only been posting since Fall, 2017...you've got a lot to learn.



For clarification I was referring to the people in 4Q's post that have been dumb enough to get themselves banned by trolling and just being stupid. We really don't have any morons on here anymore.

The height of the morons posting on this board was definitely during the Odum years. I read this board a long time before I finally joined. One of the funniest moments was when a college student kept getting himself banned and he straight up said that he would just make new accounts on various campus computers.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Somewhere, wandering in the cold, dead darkness of this late February night are Hoopsfan & Buckthorn, loudly sobbing as they try, in vain, to comfort themselves and one another


----------



## sycamore tuff

Sycamorefan96 said:


> For clarification I was referring to the people in 4Q's post that have been dumb enough to get themselves banned by trolling and just being stupid. We really don't have any morons on here anymore.
> 
> The height of the morons posting on this board was definitely during the Odum years. I read this board a long time before I finally joined. One of the funniest moments was when a college student kept getting himself banned and he straight up said that he would just make new accounts on various campus computers.


That was pretty funny.  I don’t know if Jason thought so but I did.


----------



## meistro

Poor Hoopsfan


----------



## Hooper

It would be totally unfair to the program if Lansing didn’t get an extension after this season.  You don’t send him and his staff out into the recruiting wars as lame ducks after a season like this.  You just don’t.  Other schools are already using his contract situation against us in recruiting.  It’ll look even worse if he doesn’t have a deal this summer.

If Clink doesn’t give him a modest 2-3 year extension on top of the remaining year I’ll have some serious issues with that.


----------



## meistro

Can we now put an end to this thread


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Hooper said:


> It would be totally unfair to the program if Lansing didn’t get an extension after this season.  You don’t send him and his staff out into the recruiting wars as lame ducks after a season like this.  You just don’t.  Other schools are already using his contract situation against us in recruiting.  It’ll look even worse if he doesn’t have a deal this summer.
> 
> If Clink doesn’t give him a modest 2-3 year extension on top of the remaining year I’ll have some serious issues with that.



Said it a while back that if he got a winning overall record and winning conference record he should get an extension. I still feel the same. Congrats to Lansing and the team on a great season! Hopefully we win a few more before it is all said and done. It wasn't looking good after the loss to MSU, but credit to the team for fighting through the slump.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

That was the best 40 minutes of ISU basketball, home or road, seen for a while.


----------



## rapala

Before we move another long extension like the one we had to live with let’s wait until after the tournament, then talk!


----------



## Jackson0330

4Q_iu said:


> Blessed is he who, in the name  of charity and goodwill, shepherds the weak through the valley of  darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper, and the finder of lost  children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and  furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.



Nice one Jules.  Give me your address.  The Wolf wants to send you a courtesy wallet. I’m sure you know what it says. Honey Bunny just pissed herself when she heard State beat SIU for only the 8th time since ‘76-‘77 in Little Egypt.  Lol

FYI-Marcellus didn’t off Zeb.  Peter Gibbons took responsibility.  Paper Jam and all those TPS Reports sent him over the edge. Lansing always said after beating SIU in Carbondale and I quote, “Damn It feels good to be a Gangster!”  After that win I’m feeling the hardship about as much as Larry Bush living out of his car across from the H.C. in the mid 80’s under Ron “He made Sycamore Nation Scream” Greene. Last of all, someone must of stole Lansing’s stapler, because he snd his team burnt Saluki Coliseum down last night.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

meistro said:


> Can we now put an end to this thread



You don't have to view it you know ... push the ignore button. This is the most active topic on this board.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

rapala said:


> Before we move another long extension like the one we had to live with let’s wait until after the tournament, then talk!



Extension talk is ridiculous. A quote from today's TribStar "this year's seniors are the FIRST since 2014 to leave with a winning season". ONE respectable season does not diminish the fact of FIVE LOSERS IN A ROW. The "hard to recruit"  last ditch effort by Lansing is also more hype than fact. The players that have come on board to play for the SYCAMORES this past two years apparently did not consider that when they committed that Lansing was on a short leash & they collectively are some of the best that we have seen in years. Talk talk talk ..... all it is. If Lansing wants to hang around until the end of his current contract ISU is probably at his "hostage" mercy. He would be better off to parlay this ONE winning season into employment elsewhere while he is on an uptick especially since it hasn't happened often for him.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

I bumped two threads, one from 2018 and one from 2019, where we discussed the problems faced and asked if anything changed. 

_*It has not. 
*_
I could have easily bumped threads dating back to the board's origination in 2007 where we've discussed the same exact problems that the program has faced. Do you really want to fire a head coach knowing the _*ROOT*_ problem hasn't been addressed? 

The school funds the football program as a Top 3-4 program in the MVFC. They've made this funding commitment and change within the last 3-5 years. A lower level product that has been historically poor in a state that is dominated by basketball. Yet they, the administration, haven't committed to funding the flagship sports program to even the league average of the conference which would require less than $1m/year to do. 

Do you really want to hire a new basketball coach and have them come in behind the eight ball with the same program issues the current coach has had for his entire tenure? Do you think it is prudent to limit your candidate pool and have lesser options because quality coaches will network, do their due diligence and realize the school is not serious about winning? Your only hope is you find someone that has been fired and is sitting or someone that is a first timer and desperate for a gig. Is that the candidate you want in here?

*Maybe it is time you put down the pitchforks and pick up the pens and start bombarding the AD and President to fund the program appropriately. 

*Then, once properly funded, you can resume your public hanging of Lansing.


----------



## niklz62

It looks like Lansing on average outperforms the university's commitment by 4.6 places in the MVC

Edit:  I just threw in a 4th place finish this year.


----------



## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> I bumped two threads, one from 2018 and one from 2019, where we discussed the problems faced and asked if anything changed.
> 
> _*It has not.
> *_
> I could have easily bumped threads dating back to the board's origination in 2007 where we've discussed the same exact problems that the program has faced. Do you really want to fire a head coach knowing the _*ROOT*_ problem hasn't been addressed?
> 
> The school funds the football program as a Top 3-4 program in the MVFC. They've made this funding commitment and change within the last 3-5 years. A lower level product that has been historically poor in a state that is dominated by basketball. Yet they, the administration, hasn't committed to funding the flagship sports program to even the league average of the conference which would require less than $1m/year to do.
> 
> Do you really want to hire a new basketball coach and have them come in behind the eight ball with the same program issues the current coach has had for his entire tenure? Do you think it is prudent to limit your candidate pool and have lesser options because quality coaches will network, do their due diligence and realize the school is not serious about winning. Your only hope is you find someone that has been fired and is sitting or someone that is a first timer and desperate for a gig. Is that the candidate you want in here?
> 
> *Maybe it is time you put down the pitchforks and pick up the pens and start bombarding the AD and President to fund the program appropriately.
> 
> *Then, once properly funded, you can resume your public hanging of Lansing.



I really don't want to comment on a thread other than the Valpo game thread, as it takes away from our seniors, but I can't ignore this post by Jason.

This is a great post, thank you Jason.


I edited my response, to remove some of the tone of anger


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Extension talk is ridiculous. A quote from today's TribStar "this year's seniors are the FIRST since 2014 to leave with a winning season". ONE respectable season does not diminish the fact of FIVE LOSERS IN A ROW. The "hard to recruit"  last ditch effort by Lansing is also more hype than fact. The players that have come on board to play for the SYCAMORES this past two years apparently did not consider that when they committed that Lansing was on a short leash & they collectively are some of the best that we have seen in years. Talk talk talk ..... all it is. If Lansing wants to hang around until the end of his current contract ISU is probably at his "hostage" mercy. He would be better off to parlay this ONE winning season into employment elsewhere while he is on an uptick especially since it hasn't happened often for him.



So you’ve just admitted we’re winning and have the best recruits in years....and you want him fired.

Got it.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> I bumped two threads, one from 2018 and one from 2019, where we discussed the problems faced and asked if anything changed.
> 
> _*It has not.
> *_
> I could have easily bumped threads dating back to the board's origination in 2007 where we've discussed the same exact problems that the program has faced. Do you really want to fire a head coach knowing the _*ROOT*_ problem hasn't been addressed?
> 
> The school funds the football program as a Top 3-4 program in the MVFC. They've made this funding commitment and change within the last 3-5 years. A lower level product that has been historically poor in a state that is dominated by basketball. Yet they, the administration, haven't committed to funding the flagship sports program to even the league average of the conference which would require less than $1m/year to do.
> 
> Do you really want to hire a new basketball coach and have them come in behind the eight ball with the same program issues the current coach has had for his entire tenure? Do you think it is prudent to limit your candidate pool and have lesser options because quality coaches will network, do their due diligence and realize the school is not serious about winning? Your only hope is you find someone that has been fired and is sitting or someone that is a first timer and desperate for a gig. Is that the candidate you want in here?
> 
> *Maybe it is time you put down the pitchforks and pick up the pens and start bombarding the AD and President to fund the program appropriately.
> 
> *Then, once properly funded, you can resume your public hanging of Lansing.




 While it is relatively easy to learn the 'general bottom line' of the University Foundation; is it easy to do the same for the Varsity Club?  As has been covered before, a previous Pres. "refused" to pay a coach more than an Academic Leader,  which is the Pres' prerogative but does anyone know how 'wealthy' the Varsity Club is at the moment?

Is Curtis deliberately not spending more OR is she simply spending what the University can raise, afford to spend?


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Extension talk is ridiculous. A quote from today's TribStar "this year's seniors are the FIRST since 2014 to leave with a winning season". ONE respectable season does not diminish the fact of FIVE LOSERS IN A ROW. The "hard to recruit"  last ditch effort by Lansing is also more hype than fact. The players that have come on board to play for the SYCAMORES this past two years apparently did not consider that when they committed that Lansing was on a short leash & they collectively are some of the best that we have seen in years. Talk talk talk ..... all it is. If Lansing wants to hang around until the end of his current contract ISU is probably at his "hostage" mercy. He would be better off to parlay this ONE winning season into employment elsewhere while he is on an uptick especially since it hasn't happened often for him.




Yawn...    Short-sightedness is a bitch ain't it

Lansing has (at the moment) 5 winning seasons, 5 losing seasons; the team has improved every season since the 11-20 season of 2016-17...

Thank you for displaying your AMAZING psychic abilities; you've OBVIOUSLY read the minds of the FR and SOPH classes of recruits


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> So you’ve just admitted we’re winning and have the best recruits in years....and you want him fired.
> 
> Got it.



Just wondering ..... are you Lansing's agent?


----------



## sycamore tuff

HOOPSFAN said:


> Just wondering ..... are you Lansing's agent?



I sometimes get you two confused.  You have the same first name (hoop).


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Just wondering ..... are you Lansing's agent?



Nope.  I’m just an alum and donor that loves ISU and believes Lansing does more with less better than most mid-major coaches—and I use the “Fire Lansing” subject to try and point out my disappointment at ISU’s  lack of financial support for the program.  He’s out-performed his budget every year he’s been here—and gone to post seasons, destroyed IU, and beat ranked Butler.  He’s overachieved by any reasonable  measuring stick—yes even with the below-.500 seasons.


----------



## niklz62

Hooper said:


> Nope.  I’m just an alum and donor that loves ISU and believes Lansing does more with less better than most mid-major coaches—and I use the “Fire Lansing” subject to try and point out my disappointment at ISU’s  lack of financial support for the program.  He’s out-performed his budget every year he’s been here—and gone to post seasons, destroyed IU, and beat ranked Butler.  He’s overachieved by any reasonable  measuring stick—yes even with the below-.500 seasons.



yeah, but some people just feel like its time for a new coach to likely do the same thing right?


----------



## Hooper

niklz62 said:


> yeah, but some people just feel like its time for a new coach to likely do the same thing right?



This coach just beat every single MVC team this year and is finishing well above .500 this year and for his career.  Heading to St. Louis with a high seed.  Second most wins in school history.

But yeah, change is badly needed.


----------



## niklz62

12-1 at home is pretty nice


----------



## Bluethunder

By any measure you want to use, Lansing did a great job this season.  With the lowest budget in the league, probably (I'm to lazy to look it up) the least amount of home games a year, he managed to finish in third place in the league and beat every team at least once.  The team still has a good chance to win 20 games this season.

Does it all erase the last few years, no.  But in "what have you done for me lately" world, the Sycamores are certainly trending up.  This thread should be put to rest (even though I know it won't) for the simple reason that Lansing will be our head coach next year.  Like it lump it, he isn't getting let go after a third place finish. 

Maybe next year we regress and someone can start this thread again, but for the next 8 months or so, this thread should be mothballed.  Lansing has more than earned the chance to coach ISU next year.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

Can we start a vote to close this thread?? Lol


----------



## meistro

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Can we start a vote to close this thread?? Lol



Should have been closed two months ago. Let the 2 or 3 Lansing haters go start their own board.


----------



## CicrtckySycamore

If possible to do so, I so move to close this thread. The Negativity/Poison presented on this thread that ultimately has no use to anyone should be closed for the season.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

CicrtckySycamore said:


> If possible to do so, I so move to close this thread. The Negativity/Poison presented on this thread that ultimately has no use to anyone should be closed for the season.



Just click "ignore" crybaby. This topic is very popular. A lot of fans are not satisfied with one good season in the last six years even if it happens to be the current one. Not many people get 6 years to right a wrong.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

niklz62 said:


> 12-1 at home is pretty nice



Not winning a game in St. Louis for years ain't too nice though and it remains to be seen if that streak gets broken this time.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

meistro said:


> Should have been closed two months ago. Let the 2 or 3 Lansing haters go start their own board.



A lot more than 2 or 3 out there. Don't kid yourself.


----------



## TreeTop

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cqtb6XBBBRc


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> A lot more than 2 or 3 out there. Don't kid yourself.



Lansing supporter donations directly given to men’s b-ball so far this 2019-2020 alone: Over 100k, probably close to 200k after the Day of Giving next week.

Five year’s worth of Lansing detractor donations toward a buyout: $0.

That should tell you all you need to know about this so-called legion of Lansing detractors.  He’s popular, he’s winning, and he’s probably getting an extension.  Get over it.


----------



## CicrtckySycamore

HOOPSFAN said:


> Just click "ignore" crybaby. This topic is very popular.



...says the one who created this post to cry about something they have no control over. I won’t stoop to the name calling and will select “ignore” as I have ignored most of this post over since its inception. Just pointing out the obvious and understand there are many that aren’t self aware enough to get the obvious. My motion will remain standing. Critiquing or breaking down each game is fun and insightful and I will continue to enjoy that through the end of the season and years to come. Go Blue!


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> Lansing supporter donations directly given to men’s b-ball so far this 2019-2020 alone: Over 100k, probably close to 200k after the Day of Giving next week.
> 
> Five year’s worth of Lansing detractor donations toward a buyout: $0.
> 
> That should tell you all you need to know about this so-called legion of Lansing detractors.  He’s popular, he’s winning, and he’s probably getting an extension.  Get over it.



ISU doesn't have enough IU type doctors, lawyers or Mark Cuban like benefactors to pay for administrative lapses in judgement. Just have to bite the bullet while being held contractual hostage. Your numbers mean nothing; just your clouded opinion.


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> Just click "ignore" crybaby. This topic is very popular. A lot of fans are not satisfied with one good season in the last six years even if it happens to be the current one. Not many people get 6 years to right a wrong.



This is not a popular topic. It's mostly you filling the pages and maybe a couple of like minded people. The rest of us have come on here to say how stupid this thread is in the middle of a good season. You started this thread on 1-10-20, at which time we were 8-6.Two of those losses were to top ten teams on the road. Two others were close losses on the road in conference play. Whether you want to believe it or not, GL has done a good job this year. Over the years we've complained about substitution patterns, lack of creativity in offense and defense, etc. He has done a better job in all of those areas and it shows in the record. And stop with the nonsense of him holding us hostage with his contract. Who in their right mind would walk away with money on the table? especially when they're improving the program. Thinking anything else is just stupid. He deserves to keep coaching, and this thread deserves to die, so get over it and take your crybaby self somewhere else.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> ISU doesn't have enough IU type doctors, lawyers or Mark Cuban like benefactors to pay for administrative lapses in judgement. Just have to bite the bullet while being held contractual hostage. Your numbers mean nothing; just your clouded opinion.




Nickels and Dimes make Dollars; if you want him ousted, start a GoFundMe campaign, then you and all of the other hundreds of thousands Anti-Lansing-ites can oust him and fund the national search

Thank goodness we DON"T have iu-type doctors and lawyers; most are hacks and ambulance chasers


----------



## Jackson0330

Hooper said:


> Lansing supporter donations directly given to men’s b-ball so far this 2019-2020 alone: Over 100k, probably close to 200k after the Day of Giving next week.
> 
> Five year’s worth of Lansing detractor donations toward a buyout: $0.
> 
> That should tell you all you need to know about this so-called legion of Lansing detractors.  He’s popular, he’s winning, and he’s probably getting an extension.  Get over it.



He’s beat the odds this season.  He’s not getting an extension after this season.  He wins the tournament maybe, but even in the Odum years they truly underachieved and regressed as the season went on.  This is his best team by far, but they get blown out Friday than it’s another step back.  We’ll see.  They’re peaking at the right time. Lansing has a lot going for him right now.  Will the consistency continue.  That’s up fur debate. Hope they win it all, but let’s face reality here.  Don’t put the cart before the horse.


----------



## Bob Evans

18 wins out the last 25 games. Period.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

In case you missed me - Temporary no comment until after exit or tournament championship at Arch Madness.


----------



## region rat

Say it isn’t so 



HOOPSFAN said:


> In case you missed me - Temporary no comment until after exit or tournament championship at Arch Madness.


----------



## niklz62

HOOPSFAN said:


> In case you missed me - Temporary no comment until after exit or tournament championship at Arch Madness.



Since the logo came out nobody cares about this anymore.


----------



## bluestreak

HOOPSFAN said:


> A lot more than 2 or 3 out there. Don't kid yourself.



Well then why don't you start a roll call. Let the haters line up and declare themselves.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Another one and done and blown out in St. Louis.  The Lansing curse.


----------



## landrus13

Sure glad we got that 3rd seed just to piss it away. Lansing special tonight. 1 and 2 seeds lost and opened it up for ISU and this is how they play. Fucking bullshit. And people think he deserves an extension?!! For what?! 1 winning season in 6 years?! LMAO!!!


----------



## bent20

Perfect year to take advantage with Loyola and UNI bowing out early and we do the same, just like we've done year after year for multiple seasons. Hell no he doesn't deserve an extension.


----------



## Jackson0330

HOOPSFAN said:


> Another one and done and blown out in St. Louis.  The Lansing curse.



Thanks for having the courage to start this thread.  I was naive to hold out for hope, but after tonight I’m done til’ he’s gone.  I’m signing off by saying, “$&@! you Greg Lansing!”


----------



## meistro

Jackson0330 said:


> Thanks for having the courage to start this thread.  I was naive to hold out for hope, but after tonight I’m done til’ he’s gone.  I’m signing off by saying, “$&@! you Greg Lansing!”



Courage? What courage, he hides behind a keyboard and won’t put his money where his mouth is.


----------



## BlueBleeder

How about the  lack of balls from Greg Lansing to send Kareem Richardson out to do the radio with Fritz after that shit show.  My friend and I were discussing that perhaps Under Armour gave a healthy donation to the athletics department, hince their name on all the new logos, and they could use that to buy out Lansing?  We don't know that is what is happening.....just speculating.  What do you all think?


----------



## meistro

BlueBleeder said:


> How about the  lack of balls from Greg Lansing to send Kareem Richardson out to do the radio with Fritz after that shit show.  My friend and I were discussing that perhaps Under Armour gave a healthy donation to the athletics department, hince their name on all the new logos, and they could use that to buy out Lansing?  We don't know that is what is happening.....just speculating.  What do you all think?



In tournament play he is obligated to go into media room,


----------



## BlueBleeder

I like my theory better...  I didn't think about that, i was too busy being mad as fuck!  This shit is getting really old is all i know!


----------



## HOOPSFAN

FIRE GREG LANSING NOW - WHAT MORE DOES ANYONE NEED TO SEE THAT HE IS NOT THE LEADER THIS OR ANY FUTURE ISU TEAM NEEDS? ALSO DO NOT   PLAY IN ANY LOSER'S CIT OR CBA OR LITTLE SISTERS OF THE POOR TOURNAMENT WITH HIM STILL ON THE BENCH. IF CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY HIS LAST YEAR OUT & HE IS TOO NAIVE TO LEAVE ON HIS OWN AFTER A WINNING SEASON DON'T SPEND $$$ TO EXTEND THE SEASON AND LOSE ANOTHER GAME.......... THE FUTURE SHOULD START NOW.

Where R U HOOPER? Come out and defend "your boy" after this annual debacle in St. Louis.


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> FIRE GREG LANSING NOW - WHAT MORE DOES ANYONE NEED TO SEE THAT HE IS NOT THE LEADER THIS OR ANY FUTURE ISU TEAM NEEDS? ALSO DO NOT   PLAY IN ANY LOSER'S CIT OR CBA OR LITTLE SISTERS OF THE POOR TOURNAMENT WITH HIM STILL ON THE BENCH. IF CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY HIS LAST YEAR OUT & HE IS TOO NAIVE TO LEAVE ON HIS OWN AFTER A WINNING SEASON DON'T SPEND $$$ TO EXTEND THE SEASON AND LOSE ANOTHER GAME.......... THE FUTURE SHOULD START NOW.
> 
> Where R U HOOPER? Come out and defend "your boy" after this annual debacle in St. Louis.



I’m lying in bed at the Hotel Saint Louis (very nice by the way).  I’m mad too.  But it’s a winning season with talk of one of the “C” post seasons.  You’re probably stuck with Lansing for at least another year and a possible extension if he wins again in 20-21.  So that’s where we are.  I’m too tired to argue anymore with you right now Hoops. Going back to bed.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> I’m lying in bed at the Hotel Saint Louis (very nice by the way).  I’m mad too.  But it’s a winning season with talk of one of the “C” post seasons.  You’re probably stuck with Lansing for at least another year and a possible extension if he wins again in 20-21.  So that’s where we are.  I’m too tired to argue anymore with you right now Hoops. Going back to bed.



Maybe just maybe Lansing will leave on his own while his iron is "warm" and do us a favor? NO EXTENSION & No Micky Mouse tournaments to lose another game ..... team needs to just go home and wait 'til next year. The door was open & they did not take advantage .... season over period.


----------



## meistro

Well, Unlike Northern and Loyola at least we’re not paying our coach 1 million a season. I’m sure their fan bases are just as pissed this morning.


----------



## BankShot

Just had to love GL's post-half-time comment:

Fox Sports MW: "Greg, you're down 10 pts. What do you need to do to get your offense going?"
GL: "Well, we've gotta get our FEET UNDER US."



He sure had that right, didn't he?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

He has all the answers doesn't he? Nada, he sees the problems but has no idea how to fix them during a game.

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1YqGoQBdmAaxv 

He says give me another chance to play and lose another game in a loser's tournament ...... HELL NO - GO HOME.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Anyone involved with ANY extension of GL's ISU hostage contract needs to be evaluated. All it does is postpone the inevitable.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

BankShot said:


> Just had to love GL's post-half-time comment:
> 
> Fox Sports MW: "Greg, you're down 10 pts. What do you need to do to get your offense going?"
> GL: "Well, we've gotta get our FEET UNDER US."
> 
> View attachment 1462
> 
> He sure had that right, didn't he?



VALPO hasn't had any problem getting their feet under them have they? An amazing run under a relatively NEW COACH and playing on Thursday Friday & again on Saturday vs a physical Missouri State team that just "boat-raced" the Sycamores Friday night didn't dampen their enthusiasm or let physical play slow them down. And Missouri State with a NEW COACH took 2 of 3 from the Sycamores rather handily. Drake also played well for a NEW COACH. 

Way past time for a new "VOICE" on the ISU bench!


----------



## HOOPSFAN

NO MORE GAMES SEASON OVER .... the cost in 2016 & probably higher now to play in one of the "Loser Tournaments" was "It is a fact that any team wanting to participate in the CIT must be willing to host in either of the first two rounds at a cost of $38,500" & the other "Loser Tournament" the CBI also comes at a cost. If can't afford to get rid of a lame-duck coach can't afford to waste money so he can go lose another game. Three Seniors moving on and one frosh not healthy ..... pack it in.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hate to deflect the evaluation of GL but this is an article from Tribune-Star/Editorials today. This guy might have a point here?

ISU AD should be dismissed Indiana State University is an excellent university and institution of higher learning. However, the director of athletics, Sherard Clinkscales, has bred a feeling of mediocrity within the men’s and women’s basketball programs. The student-athletes in these programs deserve better. For years, Clinkscales has ignored the fact that these basketball programs have failed to measure up compared to other schools within the Missouri Valley Conference. Clinkscales has accepted complacency within these programs and ISU should move on from his misguided leadership. He must be dismissed ASAP so the university can move forward to find a replacement. — Frank Durniat Terre Haute


----------



## rapala

Let’s be honest you are quoting a letter to the editor and not an editorial.  There is a difference.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

rapala said:


> Let’s be honest you are quoting a letter to the editor and not an editorial.  There is a difference.



My mistake if it really makes a lot difference of where it came from. READER'S FORUM, directly under the Editorial column.  Point is it deserves some thought.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

GO GREG GO ..... make that call .... lots of time to re-write that resume and interview right now.


----------



## niklz62

HOOPSFAN said:


> GO GREG GO ..... make that call .... lots of time to re-write that resume and interview right now.



I blame Lansing for the Coronavirus.  No way this pandemic happens if not for his rollover contract


----------



## 4Q_iu

niklz62 said:


> I blame Lansing for the Coronavirus.  No way this pandemic happens if not for his rollover contract




Don't forget War, Poverty, Pestilence, Famine and that team in gloomington....   ALL forms of horror are the fault of greg lansing... ALL


----------



## HOOPSFAN

"BREAKING: Iona will hire Rick Pitino as its next head basketball coach, per Gaels' Athletic Director Matt Glovaski."

Get with it Greg ... even multi-millionaire Rick made a call and got a new gig. DO YOUR THING!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

HOOPSFAN said:


> "BREAKING: Iona will hire Rick Pitino as its next head basketball coach, per Gaels' Athletic Director Matt Glovaski."
> 
> Get with it Greg ... even multi-millionaire Rick made a call and got a new gig. DO YOUR THING!



Iona pays like $600k per year. Just FYI.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Iona pays like $600k per year. Just FYI.




Sounds about right...  housing in the NYC exurbs/suburbs is a BITCH

hate to think what NY taxes are to boot...

add "cost of living" to housing and taxes...

course Dick Pitino IS a multi-millionaire, even with paying off the mistress, abortion coverage or not

for handy future reference -- Tax Foundation

https://taxfoundation.org/center/state-tax-policy/


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Jason Svoboda said:


> Iona pays like $600k per year. Just FYI.



Do you think Rick really needs the money & that it was a major factor whatever it paid? "Pay me what you paid the last guy" was probably as far as it got?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

HOOPSFAN said:


> Do you think Rick really needs the money & that it was a major factor whatever it paid? "Pay me what you paid the last guy" was probably as far as it got?



Considering the stripper gate funds came out of his bank account, yeah, I’d want to front load that account. I’d imagine strippers in NY are a taaaad more costly than KY.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

QUICK ... one of you 3 or 4 Lansing Lovers send him some help. He really needs it for his next job.

https://summit.coachesclinic.com/


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Any word yet on if they are going to give Lansing an extra year after his winning season? Or is our AD going to let our recruiting suffer during a lame duck season?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Any word yet on if they are going to give Lansing an extra year after his winning season? Or is our AD going to let our recruiting suffer during a lame duck season?



If he is still around next season it will be his last. Being held hostage has run out. Won't make any more of a difference than a coaching change anywhere else does. Can't play that card forever.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Golden's discussion with "The Great One" summing up the "great improvement" this past season printed in today's Tribune-Star ........... Lansing seems to "forget how well his teams show in St. Louis" but Golden notes it in brackets:  

  “We have to be prepared to challenge for a conference championship and play better in the [MVC] Tournament. We haven’t played well in the conference tournament in the last couple of years [ISU’s exit has been by an average margin of 20.1 points per loss since 2015] for sure. This year, we were in the hunt until the end, so we are capable of contending for a championship and get playing in the postseason,” Lansing said.

Bullshit GL, same old crap ...... talk talk talk ......A NEW VOICE NEEDED - FIRE GREG LANSING 

**He does give some credit to one of his assistant coaches but I would hazard a guess that Jake Odum's presence probably had more of an effect on Jordan Barnes improved "point guard first" play than anyone.


----------



## meistro

This world is a crazy place right now and I have enough drama worrying about my wife who's a nurse, and whether I will have a business after all is said and done. I will come on here to check and see if we have any new recruits or positive information. As far as arguing with any of you, I'm out.


----------



## 4Q_iu

meistro said:


> This world is a crazy place right now and I have enough drama worrying about my wife who's a nurse, and whether I will have a business after all is said and done. I will come on here to check and see if we have any new recruits or positive information. As far as arguing with any of you, I'm out.




Pretty sure recruiting is in a "dead period" for about a month...    the world should look better by then

Medical personnel are doing a lot of great work 

Thanks to all of them for it


----------



## niklz62

Its funny how "being held hostage" is being conflated with "expecting a party to fulfill their voluntarily agreed on contractual requirements"


----------



## HOOPSFAN

niklz62 said:


> Its funny how "being held hostage" is being conflated with "expecting a party to fulfill their voluntarily agreed on contractual requirements"



Ignorance exhibited by individuals in contract negotiations can be painful to those they represent.  And this one took place right after the very similar Lowery fiasco down at Southern Illinois....... lesson learned? NO.  Also the wife was in an administrative position at that time to benefit but we know how that ended up.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

HOOPSFAN said:


> Ignorance exhibited by individuals in contract negotiations can be painful to those they represent.  And this one took place right after the very similar Lowery fiasco down at Southern Illinois....... lesson learned? NO.  Also the wife was in an administrative position at that time to benefit but we know how that ended up.



Dude, what's the point? 

You've not officially got one more year of Lansing and maybe not even a basketball season depending on how long the CV19 stuff shakes out as some estimates say it could be 6-9 months if we can't keep it contained. 

At this point set the timer and forget it. The school certainly isn't buying him out with all of the uncertainty and fall out from having to cancel everything. If they did, I'd call for Dr. Curtis, Clink and everyone involved's heads because that is not how you spend money in a time of crisis.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Dude, what's the point?
> 
> You've not officially got one more year of Lansing and maybe not even a basketball season depending on how long the CV19 stuff shakes out as some estimates say it could be 6-9 months if we can't keep it contained.
> 
> At this point set the timer and forget it. The school certainly isn't buying him out with all of the uncertainty and fall out from having to cancel everything. If they did, I'd call for Dr. Curtis, Clink and everyone involved heads because that is not how you spend money in a time of crisis.






Jason,

   Haters gonna hate;  they're a one-trick pony

  Everyone knows Lansing will coach whatever form the 2020-21 MBB season comprises; most likely at that point, ISU moves in a different direction but one never knows what the future holds


   Shocking to see the Vegas Strip "close" -- the correct move but just shocking

  SMH at the knuckle-heads in FLA "enjoying" spring break


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Jason Svoboda said:


> Dude, what's the point?
> 
> You've not officially got one more year of Lansing and maybe not even a basketball season depending on how long the CV19 stuff shakes out as some estimates say it could be 6-9 months if we can't keep it contained.
> 
> At this point set the timer and forget it. The school certainly isn't buying him out with all of the uncertainty and fall out from having to cancel everything. If they did, I'd call for Dr. Curtis, Clink and everyone involved's heads because that is not how you spend money in a time of crisis.



OK Jason I will take a time-out for now.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Lest we forget ... the most active thread on this forum. I am not initiating any new discussion. This thread should not wither away before "the great one" does.


----------



## Tommy33624

Blow the guy out mid-season and let Odum coach the year out as interim coach.  

If they haven't re-signed Lansing yet, Clink isn't going to offer Lansing a new contract.   Move on and start working on the new coach hire and give her a chance to set up a staff and start recruiting.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Tommy33624 said:


> Blow the guy out mid-season and let *Odum* coach the year out as interim coach.
> 
> If they haven't re-signed Lansing yet, Clink isn't going to offer Lansing a new contract.   Move on and start working on the new coach hire and give *her* a chance to set up a staff and start recruiting.



I agree, and especially if we lose both games against this weekend against the Redbirds.  Even splitting with them will be bad enough....but Odum as the interim coach?  LOL and NFW!   Let me repeat, NFW!  One of the other assistants that has several years of college experience can do it.....but *NOT* Odum; who doesn't even have a year of any kind of coaching experience under his belt.  

And my question is, why is Odum on our staff anyway?  It's certainly NOT for up-coaching our Guard play; that's for darn sure!    Because if Odum is responsible for that, then that says it all, because our Guard play sucks?   What has Odum done to improve that?  I couldn't tell anyone ONE thing that he's done.....let alone three.

And agree, the writing has really been on the wall for the last 2 or 3 years, that Lansing's days were numbered.  His only hope was having back-to-back winning seasons this year, and NOT get blown out again in St. Louis...regardless of Seed.

Probably the main challenge about getting our new coach is timing, and the possibility of ethics claims for contacting someone while they're already coaching (employed)....and interrupting that schools season and continuity.

Also, you spelled *HIM* incorrectly


----------



## Sycamorefan96

If we hire a woman as the MBB HC, it will be just like when football passed on Jim Harbaugh and hired Lou West. We need to hire someone who is the best qualified for the job regardless of what the racial / sexual profile of the day is. I can pretty much assure you that there is not a woman out there that is the best qualified or even qualified at all for the job. Some seem to want to knock D2 MBB coaches out of consideration, but WBB is far more inferior than D2 men's ball. I think most of the lowly SWAC programs would easily beat some of the best WBB teams. It's just a different game.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Thought for the day ..........finally a "buy-out" should be in reach ..... FIRE LANSING NOW! Let an interim/candidate finish the season....  or re-assign him for his last 60 days - April Fools Day is coming..... "you get a 10 year rollover at 500K ...................................APRIL FOOL!" ............ 
won 87 lost 99 previous six seasons ...... double figure losses/blowouts, except one at MVC Tourney in the same time period.
Time to go another route ............


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> Thought for the day ..........finally a "buy-out" should be in reach ..... FIRE LANSING NOW! Let an interim/candidate finish the season....  or re-assign him for his last 60 days - April Fools Day is coming..... "you get a 10 year rollover at 500K ...................................APRIL FOOL!" ............
> won 87 lost 99 previous six seasons ...... double figure losses/blowouts, except one at MVC Tourney in the same time period.
> Time to go another route ............


Really? Won 5 of 6. Must be terrible to hate someone as much as you do GL. More than likely he’s gone at the end of the year. What are you gonna bitch about then? Looking forward to your donation to isu men’s basketball.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

meistro said:


> Really? Won 5 of 6. Must be terrible to hate someone as much as you do GL. More than likely he’s gone at the end of the year. What are you gonna bitch about then? Looking forward to your donation to isu men’s basketball.


Think you are not comprehending meistro ..... must have had a bump on your head? ONLY one of those last six NOT a blowout and the rest were all double-figure blowout losses. Let me remind you (in reverse order) ... Missouri State 51-78, Valpo 55-77, Illinois State 70-77 (only non-double figure loss), Evansville 72-83, Evansville 42-68, Loyola 53-81. Do they ring a bell now? Losses to 5 different teams and Evansville twice. What a record.


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Thought for the day ..........finally a "buy-out" should be in reach ..... FIRE LANSING NOW! Let an interim/candidate finish the season....  or re-assign him for his last 60 days - April Fools Day is coming..... "you get a 10 year rollover at 500K ...................................APRIL FOOL!" ............
> won 87 lost 99 previous six seasons ...... double figure losses/blowouts, except one at MVC Tourney in the same time period.
> Time to go another route ............


Just curious....what are you trying to accomplish with these rants?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> Just curious....what are you trying to accomplish with these rants?



just his version of achieving "full release"


----------



## bent20

Does seem like an odd time to dredge up this thread. He's good as gone but no point in taking any action now. When the time comes, I will wish Lansing well and try to remember him more for the success he had early on.


----------



## meistro

HOOPSFAN said:


> Think you are not comprehending meistro ..... must have had a bump on your head? ONLY one of those last six NOT a blowout and the rest were all double-figure blowout losses. Let me remind you (in reverse order) ... Missouri State 51-78, Valpo 55-77, Illinois State 70-77 (only non-double figure loss), Evansville 72-83, Evansville 42-68, Loyola 53-81. Do they ring a bell now? Losses to 5 different teams and Evansville twice. What a record.


I was talking about this season. But thanks for reminding me I got a bump on my head.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

HOOPSFAN said:


> Think you are not comprehending meistro ..... must have had a bump on your head? ONLY one of those last six NOT a blowout and the rest were all double-figure blowout losses. Let me remind you (in reverse order) ... Missouri State 51-78, Valpo 55-77, Illinois State 70-77 (only non-double figure loss), Evansville 72-83, Evansville 42-68, Loyola 53-81. Do they ring a bell now? Losses to 5 different teams and Evansville twice. What a record.



That’s an all time low for this forum... “must have had a bump on your head” that’s pretty pathetic and poor taste. I don’t care what the fuck you think about Lansing man - I honestly don’t at all. The man almost died in a freak accident and you say something like that. It’s not like you can claim ignorance like you haven’t been coming to this forum for awhile - that was blatant and uncalled for.

All because you hate Lansing... Unbelievable. It’s basketball man - you took it to another level on a message board. Congratulations.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

HOOPSFAN said:


> Think you are not comprehending meistro ..... must have had a bump on your head? ONLY one of those last six NOT a blowout and the rest were all double-figure blowout losses. Let me remind you (in reverse order) ... Missouri State 51-78, Valpo 55-77, Illinois State 70-77 (only non-double figure loss), Evansville 72-83, Evansville 42-68, Loyola 53-81. Do they ring a bell now? Losses to 5 different teams and Evansville twice. What a record.


That is pretty uncalled for and I think you owe @meistro an apology.


----------



## krwilson2

Could we please exercise some sensible discourse?....asking for a friend...and for myself.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

krwilson2 said:


> Could we please exercise some sensible discourse?....asking for a friend...and for myself.



This forum has a “search” feature... Welcome to the internet. Let us know if we can be of further assistance!


----------



## swsycamore

HOOPSFAN said:


> here we go .......................... post your thoughts


PLEASE give it a break


----------



## swsycamore

niklz62 said:


> A while back I was talking to a D1 coach about some of our fan base wanting Lansing fired and his response was "who else are you going to get"
> 
> that's not a bleacher jockey that was someone who has been on the inside.
> 
> just some perspective.


agree.  Lansing might not be a GREAT coach but I think he is a decent coach.  I would like to see all of us get off his back.


----------



## sycamore tuff

I'm off


----------



## meistro

Hey guys, thanks for your support I appreciate it. I’ve learned a lot in the last few months, one is to appreciate life and second is to not take things so serious. There are a lot worse things in life than whether or not we have a winning season every year. I’m lucky to be alive and grateful for all of you on here I call friends. I’ve also gotten to know GL and Clink and they’ve been great to me. Hoopsfan, I wish you nothing but the best. Life is too short to have these pissing matches. Happy Saturday and March on!


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Sorry for the comment man .........🌹 Greg Lansing is not my friend so brings out the worst in me when one of his buddy's begin to praise him.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Golden with several great points on retaining Lansing

www.tribstar.com/sports/down-in-the-valley-week-in-review-feb-8/article_8e970150-69d2-11eb-9ad9-d3283a551b1c.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> Golden with several great points on retaining Lansing
> 
> www.tribstar.com/sports/down-in-the-valley-week-in-review-feb-8/article_8e970150-69d2-11eb-9ad9-d3283a551b1c.html



The question may pivot to does Greg want to be retained? If he wins out, he has some leverage going into the negotiation. If my budget doesn't increase, I may try to parlay my results into a job where the school will adequately fund the program.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> The question may pivot to does Greg want to be retained? If he wins out, he has some leverage going into the negotiation. If my budget doesn't increase, I may try to parlay my results into a job where the school will adequately fund the program.



Very true - curious where any increased budget is found


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Here's a theory. What if the other teams in the MVC are letting us win so that we get suckered into bringing Lansing back for another 4-5 years? Maybe they are all thinking ahead. It wouldn't be the craziest conspiracy theory out there.


----------



## Fiji Bill 72

Jason Svoboda said:


> https://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?39436-Lansing-Contract-Situation
> 
> Lansing has one year remaining on his deal at roughly $258,000. My guess is it is a bit higher since my original post back in 2017 due to cost of living increases that employees get yearly. Clink's phone number is 812-237-4092. I believe if you call him and tell him you will cut a check for that amount, he may be likely to grant your wish.
> 
> My suggestion is you make your donation around $500,000 so we can up the salary pool for the next head coach search. That way, they can attract a bigger pool of candidates for the job and perhaps land someone more to your liking.


I like the idea of a $500,000 donation. That should be easy. Honestly, we win seven games in a row, including one over 22nd ranked Loyola, drop a road game, and the head is on a plater.


----------



## Tommy33624

Sycamorefan96 said:


> If we hire a woman as the MBB HC, it will be just like when football passed on Jim Harbaugh and hired Lou West. We need to hire someone who is the best qualified for the job regardless of what the racial / sexual profile of the day is. I can pretty much assure you that there is not a woman out there that is the best qualified or even qualified at all for the job. Some seem to want to knock D2 MBB coaches out of consideration, but WBB is far more inferior than D2 men's ball. I think most of the lowly SWAC programs would easily beat some of the best WBB teams. It's just a different game.


Ya, someone like Sue Bird can work in the Denver Nuggets front office, but couldn't possibly out-coach mental giant Greg Lansing and his amazing knowledge of basketball trivia and his barbershop chats.   I appreciate how hard the team has played the last couple weeks, but still hope it's not enough to #SaveLansing


----------



## Tommy33624

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Here's a theory. What if the other teams in the MVC are letting us win so that we get suckered into bringing Lansing back for another 4-5 years? Maybe they are all thinking ahead. It wouldn't be the craziest conspiracy theory out there.


This is totally TRUE.  100% and the only explanation.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> Very true - curious where any increased budget is found


I'd content all non-revenue sports should be totally barebone unless their player alumni base has measurable donations/support.


----------



## BankShot

Fiji Bill 72 said:


> I like the idea of a $500,000 donation. That should be easy. Honestly, we win seven games in a row, including one over 22nd ranked Loyola, drop a road game, and the head is on a plater.


No doubt...Greggie deserves another 5 yr. "rollover," perhaps his ex-Angie could even type up the new Agreement  (even though RP's been long gone). 

That seven (7) game win streak surely sends out the call for the "Honor Guard" this time of the year, doesn't it? Circle the wagons, open a few cans of baked beans and sit around the campfire & "toot" the ol' traditional ISU fight song.

Let's examine the NET's of the team's conquered in those 7 wins:

IL St (4-14)  - #256
SIU   (8-7)    -#198 (also, wasn't their #1 stud Domask OUT WITH INJURY?)
Brad (8-11)  -#151 (didn't they also have 2 or 3 frontline players out?)
UNI   (4-12)  -#191 (their #1 stud Green is out for the season w/ injury) 

A combined 24-45 record...hell ya'll, sign him up for decade! As far as Golden, typical media slant. Makes ya wonder if the Wolf Boyz gave him a '62 Corvair to drive.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> I'd content all non-revenue sports should be totally barebone unless their player alumni base has measurable donations/support.



I haven't read a budget report on the non-revenue sports at ISU in quite some time; I doubt they're breaking the bank on those sports.  

I wonder how much the NLI plan/program would benefit those programs vs. MBB or Football.  In general, there isn't an MBB or Football program that lacks funding across NCAA Div I, especially in relation to the non-revenue sports.  So, would an athlete like Michael Phelps or Katie Ledecky fare better with the ability to tap into an NLI $$ source than a UConn MBB player claiming hunger pains at bedtime...?

Obviously far fewer Phelps and Ledeckys than the MBB Parade All-Americans but I think NLI would benefit colleges more by targeting non-revenue sports athletes


----------



## Sycamorefan96

BankShot said:


> No doubt...Greggie deserves another 5 yr. "rollover," perhaps his ex-Angie could even type up the new Agreement  (even though RP's been long gone).
> 
> That seven (7) game win streak surely sends out the call for the "Honor Guard" this time of the year, doesn't it? Circle the wagons, open a few cans of baked beans and sit around the campfire & "toot" the ol' traditional ISU fight song.
> 
> Let's examine the NET's of the team's conquered in those 7 wins:
> 
> IL St (4-14)  - #256
> SIU   (8-7)    -#198 (also, wasn't their #1 stud Domask OUT WITH INJURY?)
> Brad (8-11)  -#151 (didn't they also have 2 or 3 frontline players out?)
> UNI   (4-12)  -#191 (their #1 stud Green is out for the season w/ injury)
> 
> A combined 24-45 record...hell ya'll, sign him up for decade! As far as Golden, typical media slant. Makes ya wonder if the Wolf Boyz gave him a '62 Corvair to drive.


Angie probably hopes he's fired. I mean let's be serious for a minute. The fact that they are both in the athletic department at ISU after what went down is just beyond stupid.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Angie probably hopes he's fired. I mean let's be serious for a minute. The fact that they are both in the athletic department at ISU after what went down is just beyond stupid.



Huh?  Unless you are Angie or Greg - pure speculation on your part.  If both are professional around the campus, the school hasn't grounds to dismiss either for "what went down"


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> I haven't read a budget report on the non-revenue sports at ISU in quite some time; I doubt they're breaking the bank on those sports.
> 
> I wonder how much the NLI plan/program would benefit those programs vs. MBB or Football.  In general, there isn't an MBB or Football program that lacks funding across NCAA Div I, especially in relation to the non-revenue sports.  So, would an athlete like Michael Phelps or Katie Ledecky fare better with the ability to tap into an NLI $$ source and a UConn MBB player claiming hunger pains at bedtime...?
> 
> Obviously far fewer Phelps and Ledeckys than the MBB Parade All-Americans but I think NLI would benefit colleges more by targeting non-revenue sports athletes


Honestly, I'm just grasping at straws at this point. The only athletics program that is funded well is football.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Honestly, I'm just grasping at straws at this point. The only athletics program that is funded well is football.



I haven't read the NLI plan/program cover to cover but in general, it'll make the rich richer, the poor no richer.

IMO, the EASY solution is for colleges to STOP selling jerseys with a players name on the back - the player can argue all they want that "I'm #--" but for the schools that do not retire ##s (and they exist), the player has zero argument.   I don't believe any Sycamore has worn #33 since 1979 but if ISU wanted to sell them, I'd say they could and not give Larry a nickel, so long as the jersey does not have Bird across the back.

And for the outlets that were / are selling stuff like that, a "PaceSetter-like" retail outlet, let they player take it up with that retail outlet.   Ed O'Bannon would have had ZERO legal standing HAD the Collegiate Licensing Company NOT authorized EA Sports to use O'Bannon's likeness in UCLA gear.

I disagreed w/ O'Bannon's complaint but it was valid - NCAA and CLC did it to themselves


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Golden is a Luke Martin "Company Man" clone .............. ass kissing whatever coach is on duty at the present time. Must I again remind to look at his whole body of work over eleven years ..... the Sycamores can do better.  And just like Luke he ignores the games lost side of the ledger and his MVC tourney track record for the last 5 years. GL is and will be a .500 coach forever ..... if he is lucky. He held ISU to his ridiculous contract but now that pendulum has swung ........ hit the road Jack!


----------



## HOOPSFAN

The other league coaches always sing the praises of ANY lame duck coach no matter how inept he is. Just trying to cover their own a$$.  MVC cronyism goes back to the Larry Bird days.


----------



## BankShot

HOOPSFAN said:


> The other league coaches always sing the praises of ANY lame duck coach no matter how inept he is. Just trying to cover their own a$$.  MVC cronyism goes back to the Larry Bird days.


I can' wait to see GL's true "market value" once he's on the market. Some of you are gonna be in for a BIG shock...but some of US won't!


----------



## Sycamorefan96

4Q_iu said:


> Huh?  Unless you are Angie or Greg - pure speculation on your part.  If both are professional around the campus, the school hasn't grounds to dismiss either or "what went down"


There's a reason a lot of employers don't allow "relationships" within the work place. They're great when they're great, but not so great when the crap hits the fan.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> There's a reason a lot of employers don't allow "relationships" within the work place. They're great when they're great, but not so great when the crap hits the fan.



pretty sure they were married when they returned from Iowa...   IF ISU has a policy on this - this is a first heard

has there been any legit problem in the Athletic Dept OR just part of the fan base gossiping about it?


----------



## Sycamorefan96

ISU should learn their lesson from this and not hire a coach's wife to work within the athletic department the next time we hire a new coach.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Jason Svoboda said:


> I'd content all non-revenue sports should be totally barebone unless their player alumni base has measurable donations/support.


With Biden’s executive order allowing transvestites to play in the opposite sex’s games I see no need for women’s sports to continue.


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamore tuff said:


> With Biden’s executive order allowing transvestites to play in the opposite sex’s games I see no need for women’s sports to continue.



I foresee a world with Men's teams; Women's teams and maybe (at best) co-ed teams...   though more likely Transgender Men (aka Women) and Transgender Women (aka Men) added to college's sponsored teams

what's that phrase?   elections have 'consequences'?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> ISU should learn their lesson from this and not hire a coach's wife to work within the athletic department the next time we hire a new coach.



I'd venture she got the job as much b/c of her status as former (great) ISU athlete; also sister to ISU MBB Hero Michael vice being then-married to the current HC


----------



## sycamore tuff

Sycamorefan96 said:


> ISU should learn their lesson from this and not hire a coach's wife to work within the athletic department the next time we hire a new coach.


They might let her run the daycare center.  Definitely don’t let her be his boss.  That sounds like something that the vigo county government would do.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Was she EVER his boss??

She's currently an SR Assoc AD/ SWA?   pretty sure the SWA is her job - not the Assoc AD portion of job title


----------



## Sycamorefan96

4Q_iu said:


> I foresee a world with Men's teams; Women's teams and maybe (at best) co-ed teams...   though more likely Transgender Men (aka Women) and Transgender Women (aka Men) added to college's sponsored teams
> 
> what's that phrase?   elections have 'consequences'?


Who cares? Just more programs that no one will watch or donate to.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

4Q_iu said:


> Was she EVER his boss??
> 
> She's currently an SR Assoc AD/ SWA?   pretty sure the SWA is her job - not the Assoc AD portion of job title


She was interim AD for a while, so technically she was his boss, although I doubt she had the power to fire him. 

It would kind of be like hiring a principal at a school and then making their husband / wife the assistant superintendent of the school corporation. Just dumb.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> She was interim AD for a while, so technically she was his boss, although I doubt she had the power to fire him.
> 
> It would kind of be like hiring a principal at a school and then making their husband / wife the assistant superintendent of the school corporation. Just dumb.



she's likely the shortest-tenured interim AD that the Trees have ever had; you're spinning about what coulda/woulda/maybe couldas...   

Give It Up

Focus on something else...

try this on for size:  droppingdimes.org

an organization whose sole goal is helping former ABA players who were shut out of NBA pensions


----------



## Sycamorefan96

4Q_iu said:


> she's likely the shortest-tenured interim AD that the Trees have ever had; you're spinning about what coulda/woulda/maybe couldas...
> 
> Give It Up
> 
> Focus on something else...
> 
> try this on for size:  droppingdimes.org
> 
> an organization whose sole goal is helping former ABA players who were shut out of NBA pensions


Deflecting on the issue at hand like usual, when you know you have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Who cares? Just more programs that no one will watch or donate to.


 agree


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Deflecting on the issue at hand like usual, when you know you have no idea what you are talking about.



and YOU know so much about it?    I'll tell you what Angie -- tell the world what went down because OBVIOUSLY you know what YOU'RE talking about


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I think most of us on this board know what's happened except for you apparently.


----------



## JimMeyer72

The last day on this topic is the most embbarrassing thing I have read on this message board in some time and a poor reflection of all sycamore fans.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I think most of us on this board know what's happened except for you apparently.



No, I've heard the rumors, innuendo but it's simply that - rumors and innuendo.   Did either end up in the Vigo County Sheriff's Report?   Or the T-H Chief of Police report?

both of those are good sources for local, T-H area DUIs, DWIs, drunk and disorderlys, domestic disputes, etc

Post their divorce decree


----------



## sycamore tuff

JimMeyer72 said:


> The last day on this topic is the most embbarrassing thing I have read on this message board in some time and a poor reflection of all sycamore fans.


With 18 total messages you must spend all your free time on this board for a large sample size of comments.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Sycamorefan96 said:


> She was interim AD for a while, so technically she was his boss, although I doubt she had the power to fire him.
> 
> It would kind of be like hiring a principal at a school and then making their husband / wife the assistant superintendent of the school corporation. Just dumb.



ADs by themselves do not have the power to fire coaches. They make a firing recommendation to the President. Then the President usually confers with the School's Board of Trustees/Regents. Then the firing happens.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

As for Angie/Greg's personal life, I've always been one that does not care one iota about individuals mingling in the workplace provided it does not affect their jobs. Considering Angie has been selected for some prestigious NCAA committees, her work is thought very highly of by her peers. She is a Sycamore all-time great that was on campus the same time as I was and often SHE was on the cover of the Statesman and not her brother, basketball, football or any other sport. 

As Birdman would say...


----------



## JimMeyer72

sycamore tuff said:


> With 18 total messages you must spend all your free time on this board for a large sample size of comments.


I have read this board for years and this account is a replacement for my old email. You don't have to comment on everything to be a part of this board either I bet that there are a lot of people that read and dont post.


----------



## jben

I probably shouldn't wade into these waters.....but........I am 100% in agreement with the Todd Golden column.
I have attended/worked ISU games since 1968.......I regret seeing the comments concerning Angie Lansing.  She is a
shining light in the ISU athletic department.
      The "haters" need not respond.
      Go Sycamores!!!!!


----------



## Sycamorefan96

jben said:


> I probably shouldn't wade into these waters.....but........I am 100% in agreement with the Todd Golden column.
> I have attended/worked ISU games since 1968.......I regret seeing the comments concerning Angie Lansing.  She is a
> shining light in the ISU athletic department.
> The "haters" need not respond.
> Go Sycamores!!!!!


Let me be clear, I have nothing against her. I just don't think ISU should hire a coach's wife to a higher up position in the athletic department.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Let me be clear, I have nothing against her. I just don't think ISU should hire a coach's wife to a higher up position in the athletic department.



you probably should have voiced your "concerns" 15 years ago when they both joined the athletic department

if you donate enough $$$ to a "cause," your voice is heard


----------



## Sycamorefan96

4Q_iu said:


> you probably should have voiced your "concerns" 15 years ago when they both joined the athletic department
> 
> if you donate enough $$$ to a "cause," your voice is heard


I was 9 years old at the time so I doubt my opinion would have mattered much. Should I have donated Box Tops back then or what?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I was 9 years old at the time so I doubt my opinion would have mattered much. Should I have donated Box Tops back then or what?


People rarely told Richie Rich to Shut The **** Up; not sure if they'd have accepted Box Tops but they would have taken loose coins


----------



## Sycamorefan96

With one more win we clinch a winning overall record and a winning MVC record which has been my standard for giving him an extension. We have also clinched a Friday spot in St Louis. If we get one more win then he has definitely done enough to deserve a 2 or 3 year extension in my view. I never imagined I'd be making this post after the MSU disaster but I have to give credit where credit is due. Clinkscales is also a disaster and I don't have much interest in letting him choose anyone.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Your standard is way too low.  1-6 vs the Valley's best ...... never a contender for the top spot the last several seasons & a deplorable Archmadness record. He held the "ridiculous contract" upper-hand & would not leave on his own. The pendulum has swung and a change of the guard is still in order. Do you remember all the Valley tourney blowouts recently? "Hit the road Jack and don't you come back" ......


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Your standard is way too low.  1-6 vs the Valley's best ...... never a contender for the top spot the last several seasons & a deplorable Archmadness record. He held the "ridiculous contract" upper-hand & would not leave on his own. The pendulum has swung and a change of the guard is still in order. Do you remember all the Valley tourney blowouts recently? "Hit the road Jack and don't you come back" ......


What are your standards/expectations for the lowest-paid coach in the MVC with the smallest budget?


----------



## Sycamorefan96

It could be worse. Southern Illy-noise fans spent years complaining about Barry Hinson. Last season they were all excited even though they ended up doing worse than they had they had the previous season. I know Domask is out, but they are 4-9 MVC and in 9th place by themselves. I guess the jury is still out on if running Barry out of town was a good move or not.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> What are your standards/expectations for the lowest-paid coach in the MVC with the smallest budget?


Going in to this season - Since 2014-15 - Won 72-Lost 83, MVC Won 43-Lost 47. He has caught a flash of "lightning in the bottle" this go around but don't forget the 1-5 record vs top 3 MVC teams this season offsetting the current winning ways. The pay might have been a little better if he was wanted for the long term & had not already worn out his welcome.  Need a new coach with new offense/defense strategies and one who will maximize his available talent not just one along for the ride and usually a short one to end every season at that.


----------



## Hooper

I'm assuming you watched TK yesterday.  Lansing recruited and coached someone that will go down as one of the all-time great Sycamores.  He brought us Nate Green, Matt Renn, Michael Menser, Brenton Scott, Jake Odum, Jordan Barns, et al.  And we still don't know JL's ceiling.  

I'll ask again, what numerical standard (overall wins and losses) should we as fans expect with the lowest paid coach (maybe second-lowest) and the smallest b-ball budget that is over $1,000,000 behind the average MVC budget?  Then factor in lack of donor dollars, the smallest endowment, and facilities.  

For me--given ISU's limitations--hovering around .500 is impressive.  Finishing 3rd, 4th, or even 5th is really impressive.  Accumulating the most wins in school history and being one of only a handful of coaches to win 100 MVC games is over the top.   Beating Colorado, at ND, at Vandy, Butler, UNLV, at Wichita, and at IU (so glad I was there to see us ruin Archie's debut....it's almost like he's never recovered from that) is icing on the cake.  Doing it all with minimal off-court issues (by college basketball standards) and not a sniff of NCAA violations.  He currently has one of the best winning percentages of any coach in the entire ISU athletic department...and better than any Clink hire.  This is called "maximizing your available talent."

We all WANT to have higher standards and expectations, but I WANT to have a Bugatti.  What are we willing to pay for?  What is a realistic winning percentage when ISU doesn't fund the program adequately?  

Folks, there's a reason no one has ever departed as ISU basketball coach with a winning record since Bill Hodges (and how about those two years post-Bird). Many way, way below .500.  All fired or jumped a sinking ship except McKenna.  Ask yourselves why....


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I just don't see how you can get rid of a guy that has two winning seasons in a row (assuming we win one more), both overall and MVC. As a fan I just want a product that is worth buying a ticket for. 

The 11-20 season in 2017 was pretty bad, but the program seems to be going in a positive direction again.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Not much that hasn't been said on this.  Much of the criticism has been blunted given last year and at this point this season.  Lansing does seem to be actually coaching better which is the real test for me.  I've said it many times, I get that the lowest budget in MVC is a real drawback.  No doubt effects recruiting, buying home games, etc.  etc.  But again......again ......it does NOT effect actual coaching in developing talent, pre-game strategy, and in-game strategy.
Having said that; given what appears to be his "growth" I think we've got to take a hard look at what seemed like a slam-dunk a few months ago.
So assuming we are able to win at least 2 of the last 3 games and perform well in Arch Madness (win at least one game ....preferably two) and not get blown out in embarrassing fashion again; then I'd say a 2 or 3 year extension might be in order.  Sorry but an 18 - 25 pt. blow out in St. Louis would be the last straw for me.  We were too good many years in the past to end seasons like that -- especially last season.
No repeat of that crap.
I'm hoping for a great finish, some luck and great play in St. Louis, and to be sitting in front of the TV on Selection Sunday to see who we'll be playing in March Madness (along with an at-large MVC team ---- probably Loyola).


----------



## Westbadenboy

One other comment .......
I know Jake has played well and is an outstanding young player for us.  But the real key to turning him into a GREAT player for us, and to transforming this team into a major factor in 2021 Arch Madness ???
Jake has got to take and hit 3-4 outside (preferably 3 pointers) shots per game.  Everyone says he is a very good outside shooter.  We've seen him take a couple here or there.  We've seen him usually only take about one outside shot per game.  We've seen him him do that little fake (which fools no defender at this point).  Virtually no one can shoot well taking taking that few outside shots per game.
Shooting and hitting some outside shots and those drives to the basket which are now tightly contested ..... they'll turn into him blowing past the defender and doing that slam dunk he loves.
And this ISU team turns into a real threat.  A real threat.


----------



## Daveinth

Hooper said:


> I'm assuming you watched TK yesterday.  Lansing recruited and coached someone that will go down as one of the all-time great Sycamores.  He brought us Nate Green, Matt Renn, Michael Menser, Brenton Scott, Jake Odum, Jordan Barns, et al.  And we still don't know JL's ceiling.
> 
> I'll ask again, what numerical standard (overall wins and losses) should we as fans expect with the lowest paid coach (maybe second-lowest) and the smallest b-ball budget that is over $1,000,000 behind the average MVC budget?  Then factor in lack of donor dollars, the smallest endowment, and facilities.
> 
> For me--given ISU's limitations--hovering around .500 is impressive.  Finishing 3rd, 4th, or even 5th is really impressive.  Accumulating the most wins in school history and being one of only a handful of coaches to win 100 MVC games is over the top.   Beating Colorado, at ND, at Vandy, Butler, UNLV, at Wichita, and at IU (so glad I was there to see us ruin Archie's debut....it's almost like he's never recovered from that) is icing on the cake.  Doing it all with minimal off-court issues (by college basketball standards) and not a sniff of NCAA violations.  He currently has one of the best winning percentages of any coach in the entire ISU athletic department...and better than any Clink hire.  This is called "maximizing your available talent."
> 
> We all WANT to have higher standards and expectations, but I WANT to have a Bugatti.  What are we willing to pay for?  What is a realistic winning percentage when ISU doesn't fund the program adequately?
> 
> Folks, there's a reason no one has ever departed as ISU basketball coach with a winning record since Bill Hodges (and how about those two years post-Bird). Many way, way below .500.  All fired or jumped a sinking ship except McKenna.  Ask yourselves why....sometimes the old saying


Sometimes the old saying the fox guarding the hen house comes true and in many cases making excuses is just that a little hen house guarding to protect those you consider a friend  I get it . But to put a set number is really impossible to do .  To expect a contract extension because of a halfway decent year last year and a complete flop in St Louis as has been pointed out several times is funny at best . Did GL offer to reduce his contract years for all the sub .500 years? This year started rough and as has been pointed out several times the winning streak was against the lower half of the conference and what has the teams performance been with the teams above them in the standings ?  I am sorry while you mention these good wins during the GL era do these get wiped away with time or bad losses ? College basketball coaching is a what have you done for me lately career , its a career that is performance based either you win and with consistency or you just do not have a very long career . I have said this many times if I am only doing my job ( and his job is to win ) 50% of the time I no longer have a job who else would expect a raise when your job is on the line ?  I am not on here calling to fire him . However if we have yet another complete and total meltdown in St Louis as we have in years past then its time ol Greggie does what's right and moves on .


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Going in to this season - Since 2014-15 - Won 72-Lost 83, MVC Won 43-Lost 47. He has caught a flash of "lightning in the bottle" this go around but don't forget the 1-5 record vs top 3 MVC teams this season offsetting the current winning ways. The pay might have been a little better if he was wanted for the long term & had not already worn out his welcome.  Need a new coach with new offense/defense strategies and one who will maximize his available talent not just one along for the ride and usually a short one to end every season at that.



You're a helluva cherry picker


----------



## claimsman

I think some of you posters have too much time on your hands.  I have been a Trees fan since LB.  I like to watch this group and think Lansing has done a great job of getting buy-in.  They play hard and unselfishly.  They will have a lot of points to make up next year, but we still have a very good nucleus going forward.  I expect the upper half of the Valley and a winner here and there and enjoyable basketball.  We are there, at least for a bit.  Some of you may not have gotten to enjoy the Green, Locke, Schellhase years.  You would be more grateful if you had!


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> You're a helluva cherry picker


thank you thank you ........ only stating facts. 100 MVC wins woo hoo ... also damned close to 100 MVC losses ..... a .500 coach at best year in year out ... may barely achieve a winning record by a small margin with all the current talent at his disposal.


----------



## jben

To:  Everyone
From:  Jben
        If this is improper......I apologize.  
        I collect game programs, pocket schedules, posters, media guides and pennants from ISU men's basketball from 1940's thru 
the 1979-80 seasons.  If you want to sell or trade just let me know.
       Thank you in advance for any consideration,
       Jben


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> thank you thank you ........ only stating (my selected) "facts." 100 MVC wins woo hoo ... also damned close to 100 MVC losses ..... a .500 coach at best year in year out ... may barely achieve a winning record by a small margin with all the current talent at his disposal.



Yes, he is close but he doesn't have them - even if the Trees lose out the rest of this season (doubtful), he STILL won't have 100 mvc losses and if he's in his last year, I'm sure you'll bitch how he SHOULD have 100 mvc losses

this is a short (incomplete) list of Lansing "peers" in the history of Valley

Richie Herrin, 13-yrs at Carbondale, 111-103, 1 title
Jim Molinari, 11-yrs at Bradley, 110-88, 1 title
Porter Moser, 12-yrs in the Valley, 102-111, 2 titles

Lansing has avg'd 9.1 mvc wins per season; phog allen only avg'd 11.5 wins,   ben jacobsen is avg'g 10.5,  greg mcderrmott avg'd 10.8 will all of the talent that mcdermott had

the coaches with "significantly higher" yr'ly avg's had dramatically shorter tenures


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## region rat

HOOPSFAN said:


> Going in to this season - Since 2014-15 - Won 72-Lost 83, MVC Won 43-Lost 47. He has caught a flash of "lightning in the bottle" this go around but don't forget the 1-5 record vs top 3 MVC teams this season offsetting the current winning ways. The pay might have been a little better if he was wanted for the long term & had not already worn out his welcome.  Need a new coach with new offense/defense strategies and one who will maximize his available talent not just one along for the ride and usually a short one to end every season at that.


You have the right to remain silent.  Anything you say can be held against you.

Are you out of quarantine yet?


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## Westbadenboy

Maybe the reason MVC coaches with dramatically better records have had shorter tenures is because they usually moved up into much higher prestige / paying coaching jobs .............................hummmmmm ???


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## 4Q_iu

Westbadenboy said:


> Maybe the reason MVC coaches with dramatically better records have had shorter tenures is because they usually moved up into much higher prestige / paying coaching jobs .............................hummmmmm ???



Perhaps, define "dramatically better records?"     overall W/L, MVC W/L or mvc avg win per season...

do you look at someone who quit (Kevin McKenna?) as a mediocre coach because he was a losing coach at ISU or great coach because he won at Div II?   regardless, he quit after 3 yrs, 1 winning, 2 losing, avg less mvc wins annually than Lansing

do you look at someone like Dana Altman who did nothing at Marshall or Kansas State; built a damn fine program at Creighton?

what about MVC "flash in the pan" Matt Painter at SIU?    what would he have accomplished at SIU had he not quit the Salukies?

IF this is Lansing's final season - people should appreciate it, appreciate his tenure because it's arguably the best tenure in ISU's MVC membership.

Bob King won less conf games and never won a MVC title.
Would Bob King have led the Trees to a 33-1 or 34-0 record?  we'll never know.

Would Bill Hodges have had more success IF he'd have had a complete coaching staff?
If Dick Landini hadn't lost his mind on the JC transfers that the MBB team brought in?   I'd venture the percentage of transfer players on the MBB team wasn't wholly different than the student body as a whole during Landini's tenure...

There was an earlier post on how many "recent ISU MBB greats" were all recruited, coached by Lansing...
14 of ISU's 40 "1,000-point scorers" were recruited or coached by Lansing.


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## tennessee

My frame of reference is only through this season - otherwise I would be considered an outsider. Anyway, if it is true that Lansing is paid near the bottom of the league, and the ISU basketball budget is near the bottom of the league, then I would say Lansing has done a very good job on the whole. And an especially good job to turn this season around after the poor start. 

I can't imagine there is any chance he is offered a contract extension - athletic directors usually don't let a head coach's contract expire unless they plan to replace them. It's kind of an unspoken, steadfast rule. Maybe that will change?

Also, if the above budgetary figures are correct, I wouldn't expect to be able to hire anyone who would immediately be seen as better or more of a "sure thing" to win the MVC or make the NCAA tournament than Greg Lansing. But maybe Clinkscales and the ISU board have something in mind to spend more money on a new coach going into 21-22.


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## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> Maybe the reason MVC coaches with dramatically better records have had shorter tenures is because they usually moved up into much higher prestige / paying coaching jobs .............................hummmmmm ???


Like?


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## Jason Svoboda

tennessee said:


> My frame of reference is only through this season - otherwise I would be considered an outsider. Anyway, if it is true that Lansing is paid near the bottom of the league, and the ISU basketball budget is near the bottom of the league, then I would say Lansing has done a very good job on the whole. And an especially good job to turn this season around after the poor start.
> 
> I can't imagine there is any chance he is offered a contract extension - athletic directors usually don't let a head coach's contract expire unless they plan to replace them. It's kind of an unspoken, steadfast rule. Maybe that will change?
> 
> Also, if the above budgetary figures are correct, I wouldn't expect to be able to hire anyone who would immediately be seen as better or more of a "sure thing" to win the MVC or make the NCAA tournament than Greg Lansing. But maybe Clinkscales and the ISU board have something in mind to spend more money on a new coach going into 21-22.



Yeah, there is nothing worse for your program than a lame duck coach since everything is so reliant on recruiting. That isn't even getting into the discussion about you will have to offer every one of your players a release (if they so choose) if Lansing is not retained. This is one of the reason coaches are fired because it insures finality. We literally cannot recruit 2022 and beyond right now because Lansing can not talk to these parents and guarantee he will take care of their sons like he does. He preaches family and community and he would literally be lying to their faces.


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## tennessee

Jason Svoboda said:


> Yeah, there is nothing worse for your program than a lame duck coach since everything is so reliant on recruiting. That isn't even getting into the discussion about you will have to offer every one of your players a release (if they so choose) if Lansing is not retained. This is one of the reason coaches are fired because it insures finality. We literally cannot recruit 2022 and beyond right now because Lansing can not talk to these parents and guarantee he will take care of their sons like he does. He preaches family and community and he would literally be lying to their faces.


Right, and the fact Clinkscales is hanging him out to dry like this means there has to be a close-to-zero percent chance he is retained, no matter what he does through March. 

Huge gamble on the AD's part - he has to hope he's going to be given a legit budget to hire someone new. I assume he has spoken with the board about this already, otherwise you wouldn't go about it in this order.


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## HOOPSFAN

tennessee said:


> My frame of reference is only through this season - otherwise I would be considered an outsider. Anyway, if it is true that Lansing is paid near the bottom of the league, and the ISU basketball budget is near the bottom of the league, then I would say Lansing has done a very good job on the whole. And an especially good job to turn this season around after the poor start.
> 
> I can't imagine there is any chance he is offered a contract extension - athletic directors usually don't let a head coach's contract expire unless they plan to replace them. It's kind of an unspoken, steadfast rule. Maybe that will change?
> 
> Also, if the above budgetary figures are correct, I wouldn't expect to be able to hire anyone who would immediately be seen as better or more of a "sure thing" to win the MVC or make the NCAA tournament than Greg Lansing. But maybe Clinkscales and the ISU board have something in mind to spend more money on a new coach going into 21-22.


Your frame of reference is way too small. It has taken him 10 years to put together and coach a team that is on a bit of a run right now, if you want to call it that, in a very weak overall MVC this short season. He is 1-5 against the only contending teams and this team at best will barely finish over .500 with all the talent at his disposal. He held ISU to the terms of a ridiculous contract put in place by a former AD and Lansing's ex-wife. That contract will now expire on April 1st .... not an April Fool's joke and he needs to take his "much desired talent" (his words) to one of the "many places he can work" (his words again) next year. ISU obviously doesn't pay him what he thinks he is worth so he needs to take the high road instead of waiting for a formal release and pursue his dreams elsewhere. ISU deserves more for their paltry $$$ and the field of candidates will be quite large. His current massive PR push is pathetic.


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## Jason Svoboda

As crazy as @HOOPSFAN has been banging this drum, I actually think he is spot on with regards to the PR campaign and organizational failures. However, If I'm Greg, I would put the bat signal out to my contacts for the press, too. If he doesn't get retained and wants to continue coaching, Indiana State brass has fumbled this at every turn and look absolutely incompetent and he will come out looking good. He's playing chess, they're playing checkers.

Whomever is making the final call on this looks totally inept. If they didn't plan on bringing Greg back, they should have announced this was his swan song and gave him his roses along the way. In fact, they should have bought him out last year if they didn't plan on bringing him back, especially heading into COVID and it would have given a new coach plenty of time to set roots in a rather relaxed season due to the virus. Would have removed all doubt. Instead, they've let the whole situation come to fruition.

Indiana State, bad decisions, and bad optics... name a better trio.


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## TreeTop

HOOPSFAN said:


> ...in a very weak overall MVC this short season.


So incredibly weak that only two teams are being considered for NCAA at-large berths, compared to the usual zero.

In my opinion (which many would disagree with)...every coach across the nation should get a pass for this season.  Does anyone truly believe that if this season was normal and there was no pandemic that Duke would be scratch and clawing at a .500 record.

Finish this season, get back to normal, and then in 2022....and only then...fire 'em all! (except for Lansing)


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## sycamore tuff

Jason Svoboda said:


> Like?


Nolan Richardson is one that comes to mind.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamore tuff said:


> Nolan Richardson is one that comes to mind.


Cool.


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## sycamore tuff

What's the picture for.  That is not Richardson.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamore tuff said:


> What's the picture for.  That is not Richardson.


Because when the first person that comes to mind hasn't coached in the Valley since 1985, we may as well put up peach baskets on the wall and have 10-8 games, too.


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## bent20

TreeTop said:


> So incredibly weak that only two teams are being considered for NCAA at-large berths, compared to the usual zero.
> 
> In my opinion (which many would disagree with)...every coach across the nation should get a pass for this season.  Does anyone truly believe that if this season was normal and there was no pandemic that Duke would be scratch and clawing at a .500 record.
> 
> Finish this season, get back to normal, and then in 2022....and only then...fire 'em all! (except for Lansing)


MVC won't get two teams in. I don't see that ever happening again. If Illinois State didn't make it with a 27-6 record in 2017, no way Drake or Loyola make it in a year where they played fewer non-conference games.


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## HOOPSFAN

TreeTop said:


> So incredibly weak that only two teams are being considered for NCAA at-large berths, compared to the usual zero.
> 
> In my opinion (which many would disagree with)...every coach across the nation should get a pass for this season.  Does anyone truly believe that if this season was normal and there was no pandemic that Duke would be scratch and clawing at a .500 record.
> 
> Finish this season, get back to normal, and then in 2022....and only then...fire 'em all! (except for Lansing)


If a 3rd team should happen to win the conference tourney which of either Drake or Loyola might get an at large? I say the big boys would dump them both. The regular season champ would go to the N.I.T. if there is one & the other would go home.  And yes such a weak overall MVC that other than those two no other team will play any post-season game.


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## TreeTop

HOOPSFAN said:


> If a 3rd team should happen to win the conference tourney which of either Drake or Loyola might get an at large? I say the big boys would dump them both. The regular season champ would go to the N.I.T. if there is one & the other would go home.  And yes such a weak overall MVC that other than those two no other team will play any post-season game.


Side note...the NIT is going to 16 teams this season with no regular season champion auto-qualifiers.

But, back to the FIRE GREG LANSING discussion! It's tantalizing.


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## Sycamorefan96

If Loyola wins their next 4 (includes the Friday SL game) I think they probably get an at-large bid. They have name recognition now like VCU and Wichita thanks to their recent Final 4 run. Drake on the other hand is in big trouble. Their blowout losses to Valpo and Loyola will probably keep them out. If Drake wants an at large then they better win out until at least the MVC championship game.


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## HOOPSFAN

sycamore tuff said:


> Nolan Richardson is one that comes to mind.


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/nolan-richardson-larry-bird-nba-basketball-throwback-story 

scroll down & watch the short video ............


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## Gotta Hav

4Q_iu said:


> I foresee a world with Men's teams; Women's teams and maybe (at best) co-ed teams...   though more likely Transgender Men (aka Women) and Transgender Women (aka Men) added to college's sponsored teams
> 
> what's that phrase?   elections have 'consequences'?


 If Obiden was registered on SP, pretty sure he would have written that as erections.


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## Gotta Hav

bent20 said:


> MVC won't get two teams in. I don't see that ever happening again. If Illinois State didn't make it with a 27-6 record in 2017, no way Drake or Loyola make it in a year where they played fewer non-conference games.


RPI drove selections in 2017.  Now it's NET.  If NET was available then, maybe they could have gotten an at-large spot.  NET is hard driving the selections today, and there are good NET arguments for both Drake and Loyola to receive at-large berths, even if we; or Missouri State wins Arch Madness.


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## TreeTop

Gotta Hav said:


> If Obiden was registered on SP, pretty sure he would have written that as erections.


Are you f***ing kidding me?!?!? You've been on SycamorePride long enough to know to keep politics out of non-politics forums.


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## Gotta Hav

TreeTop said:


> Are you f***ing kidding me?!?!? You've been on SycamorePride long enough to know to keep politics out of non-politics forums.


Awwhhh lighten up...it wasn't politics, it was humor; just like the comedy on SNL.


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## bent20

Gotta Hav said:


> RPI drove selections in 2017.  Now it's NET.  If NET was available then, maybe they could have gotten an at-large spot.  NET is hard driving the selections today, and there are good NET arguments for both Drake and Loyola to receive at-large berths, even if we; or Missouri State wins Arch Madness.


I'll believe it when I see it. Although I do agree with 96 that Loyola may have a better shot.


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## sycamore tuff

Jason Svoboda said:


> Because when the first person that comes to mind hasn't coached in the Valley since 1985, we may as well put up peach baskets on the wall and have 10-8 games, too.


I thought the topic was Lansing being one of the few mvc coaches to get to 100 wins and that the good ones left for greener paychecks.  I didn't realize that we were only counting this century.


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