# THN Coach -- DUI



## StateAlum

wthitv.com, reporting that Todd Woefle was arrested Sunday on counts of driving over the legal limit.

Personal feeling is that he should be fired.

Thoughts??


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## IndyTreeFan

What an idiot...


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## BankShot

He simply needs to play his "political correctness card" now, thus paving the way to an upper-level administrative move. Tell him to call Supt. Daeschner of the Greater Clark Co. Schools in Jeffersonville for advice. Sunday night, his Charlestown HS Principal was arrested (3 times over the limit post-Casino "celebration"), so Monday & Tuesday he was filming "exclusive interviews" w/ various local TV affiliates apologizing for his "betrayal of public trust," stating also that there MIGHT be a "genetic predisposition" for the problem!  What a band-aid...


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## Eleven

StateAlum said:


> wthitv.com, reporting that Todd Woefle was arrested Sunday on counts of driving over the legal limit.
> 
> Personal feeling is that he should be fired.
> 
> Thoughts??



Fired from his teaching job or from his coaching job... or both?
I think that is being awful harsh.  How many people would be fired from their job for the same thing?


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## True Blue

I believe he should be fired from coaching.  Maybe not teaching but teachers are supposed to set an example.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

My guess is they will suspend him, I don't think that they will fire him. I don't think he will be allowed to have contact with the team for the first quarter of the season or something like that. I wonder if North doesn't ask Menser to help during the time he is out? That wouldn't surprise me a bit. I'm personally not even sure that AC is helping out with THN, I'm not sure what that story/rumor was all about... 

Should he be fired? Hmmmm, interesting question to ask. He's a grown man no doubt and should be held accountable for his actions. Not sure if suspending him for a quarter of the season is considered holding anyone accountable.


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## LoyalAlum

Eleven said:


> Fired from his teaching job or from his coaching job... or both?
> I think that is being awful harsh.  How many people would be fired from their job for the same thing?



35 DUI arrests in the area over the weekend.  One singled out.  Hardly fair.  Some people get their jollys watching others' mistakes embarrass and hurt them.  It's the TMZ-ing of America. Forget all the GREAT things he's done for his students and players over the years and for the years to come.  He's supposed to be perfect.  That's right.  

Forget the parents who do meth in front of or with their kids.  Forget the parents who neglect their kids, who have multiple kids with multiple people and live off the government while teaching their kids nothing about being productive members of society.  Forget about the youth football coaches who have no accountability, who are drug dealers, dead beat fathers, unemployed horrible role models.  And the list goes on.

Yeah, let's destroy the career of someone who's done nothing but good for the youth of this community for the last decade or more, who made a mistake.  Good call.  No wonder our future as a society is screwed.  15% in poverty now.  But we need good teachers, right?  Why the hell would anyone go into teaching when the pay is bad, the hours are atrocious, there's zero respect from parents or society, and you're held to a higher standard than anyone.  It's ridiculous.


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## StateAlum

Simply put, he should be fired from his position as HS Bball coach.  However shouldn't be disiplined through his teaching position.

I just don't want to see it swept under the rug.  He is supposed to be a role-model and teacher for young people.  What kind of example is this setting.

What kind of punishment would he have for a player whom would be caught drinking, or arrested?

:naughty:


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## Bluesier

Buzzed driving is drunk driving, but wouldn't it be nice to know his blood alcohol level?  He made a mistake no doubt, there is also no doubt there should and will be punishment.  I do not believe he should be fired though, make him serve a suspension and get Aaron Carter's head coaching career going while the suspension takes place!! lol.


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## Chief_Quabachi

The "Holier than thou" are popping up. Give him a good ass chewing, put him on probation with an understanding that if ANY kind of misdeed occurs in the future his tenure at THN is history.


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## dr. bucket

StateAlum said:


> Simply put, he should be fired from his position as HS Bball coach.  However shouldn't be disiplined through his teaching position.
> 
> I just don't want to see it swept under the rug.  He is supposed to be a role-model and teacher for young people.  What kind of example is this setting.
> 
> What kind of punishment would he have for a player whom would be caught drinking, or arrested?
> 
> :naughty:



the ihsaa sets penalties for drinking. typically a fourth of the regular season. the same penalty has been imposed for being arrested, pretty sure this is mandated by the ihsaa as well. athletes sign a pledge. penalties escalate with each offense until you are history.

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.

seems to me a good opportunity for a teaching moment -- both for the coach and his players.


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## True Blue

Bluesier said:


> Buzzed driving is drunk driving, but wouldn't it be nice to know his blood alcohol level?  He made a mistake no doubt, there is also no doubt there should and will be punishment.  I do not believe he should be fired though, make him serve a suspension and get Aaron Carter's head coaching career going while the suspension takes place!! lol.



0.13.  Almost twice the legal limit.

http://tribstar.com/news/x1078459487/North-coach-teacher-arrested-over-weekend


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## dr. bucket

Chief_Quabachi said:


> The "Holier than thou" are popping up. Give him a good ass chewing, put him on probation with an understanding that if ANY kind of misdeed occurs in the future his tenure at THN is history.



no we must kill the monster. 

actually, let him learn something and let the kids learn something.


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## LoyalAlum

Good to see some level heads make an appearance.  He will be serving a suspension and will have to go through the court system.  If anything, he's been treated much worse than anyone else in the same situation.  Suspected DUI arrests typically don't make the paper or the lead on the local news.  To imply this is or will be brushed under the rug is ridiculous.  

He's a great teacher, coach, and person.  Support him and let him move on.  I'd love to see people rally to *support* rather than *tear down*.  Sadly, for many, that just won't happen.  Such sad lives some must lead.  And my disdain for local media continues to grow.  I'm so glad I stopped watching local news years ago - and thanks to my television provider - I'll never have to watch it again.


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## FreeThrow

dr. bucket said:


> the ihsaa sets penalties for drinking. typically a fourth of the regular season. the same penalty has been imposed for being arrested, pretty sure this is mandated by the ihsaa as well. athletes sign a pledge. penalties escalate with each offense until you are history.
> 
> The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
> It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
> Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
> It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
> 
> seems to me a good opportunity for a teaching moment -- both for the coach and his players.



The IHSAA imposes no penalties for drinking or breaking the law.  Each seperate school sets forth their own guidelines as per punishment for these actions.  I agree with the "holier than" statement....if it is a first-time offense, he should be punished but not terminated.  Speeding is against the law also.  If a coach gets 10 speeding tickets in a year should they be fired?


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## LoyalAlum

FreeThrow said:


> The IHSAA imposes no penalties for drinking or breaking the law.  Each seperate school sets forth their own guidelines as per punishment for these actions.  I agree with the "holier than" statement....if it is a first-time offense, he should be punished but not terminated.  Speeding is against the law also.  If a coach gets 10 speeding tickets in a year should they be fired?



And just to be sure it's clear - this IS a first offense.  And he's a STELLAR teacher and role model.


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## IndyTreeFan

LoyalAlum said:


> 35 DUI arrests in the area over the weekend.  One singled out.  Hardly fair.  Some people get their jollys watching others' mistakes embarrass and hurt them.  It's the TMZ-ing of America. Forget all the GREAT things he's done for his students and players over the years and for the years to come.  He's supposed to be perfect.  That's right.
> 
> Forget the parents who do meth in front of or with their kids.  Forget the parents who neglect their kids, who have multiple kids with multiple people and live off the government while teaching their kids nothing about being productive members of society.  Forget about the youth football coaches who have no accountability, who are drug dealers, dead beat fathers, unemployed horrible role models.  And the list goes on.
> 
> Yeah, let's destroy the career of someone who's done nothing but good for the youth of this community for the last decade or more, who made a mistake.  Good call.  No wonder our future as a society is screwed.  15% in poverty now.  But we need good teachers, right?  Why the hell would anyone go into teaching when the pay is bad, the hours are atrocious, there's zero respect from parents or society, and you're held to a higher standard than anyone.  It's ridiculous.



You are actually quite right in this regard.  However, I still find myself thinking, "What an idiot."  But, then again, I think that about anyone arrested for DUI.  A truly moronic thing to do...


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## Sycamore Sam

*AC*



SycamoreStateofMind said:


> My guess is they will suspend him, I don't think that they will fire him. I don't think he will be allowed to have contact with the team for the first quarter of the season or something like that. I wonder if North doesn't ask Menser to help during the time he is out? That wouldn't surprise me a bit. I'm personally not even sure that AC is helping out with THN, I'm not sure what that story/rumor was all about...
> 
> Should he be fired? Hmmmm, interesting question to ask. He's a grown man no doubt and should be held accountable for his actions. Not sure if suspending him for a quarter of the season is considered holding anyone accountable.



AC has been hired as an assistant for THN.  He was at my house last Friday and was telling my wife and I all about it.


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## StateAlum

I don't claim to be "holy than thou", and don't have a problem w/ those who like to have a few drinks, hell my brother probably spends more time in the Bally than class, does that make him a bad person, NO, but being responsible is the real issue, not the act of drinking.

However,  when a person chooses to drink and gets behind the wheel of an automobile risking no only his/her life, but everyone else on the road...  I HAVE A REAL PROBLEM

Take a look at this perspective.  Person was .13, driving home, he hits a family of 4, killing 2 of them.  Now it's his first offense, so we'll just suspend him for 5-6 games from a basketball season, because he made a mistake.

WRONG!!


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## FreeThrow

StateAlum said:


> I don't claim to be "holy than thou", and don't have a problem w/ those who like to have a few drinks, hell my brother probably spends more time in the Bally than class, does that make him a bad person, NO, but being responsible is the real issue, not the act of drinking.
> 
> However,  when a person chooses to drink and gets behind the wheel of an automobile risking no only his/her life, but everyone else on the road...  I HAVE A REAL PROBLEM
> 
> Take a look at this perspective.  Person was .13, driving home, he hits a family of 4, killing 2 of them.  Now it's his first offense, so we'll just suspend him for 5-6 games from a basketball season, because he made a mistake.
> 
> WRONG!!



I understand your argument, but your perspective is not reality.  If that indeed happens, then there are greater charges brought against the defendent and obviously with greater charges probably comes greater penalties from employers.  What if a totally sober basketball coach got ticketed and arrested for driving 150 mph down Wabash Avenue?  This is putting everyone else at risk as well....should the coach be fired for that?  I'm not condoning drinking and driving at all, but there are a lot of things that people "could" do that could potentially harm a lot of other people.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

StateAlum said:


> I don't claim to be "holy than thou", and don't have a problem w/ those who like to have a few drinks, hell my brother probably spends more time in the Bally than class, does that make him a bad person, NO, but being responsible is the real issue, not the act of drinking.
> 
> However,  when a person chooses to drink and gets behind the wheel of an automobile risking no only his/her life, but everyone else on the road...  I HAVE A REAL PROBLEM
> 
> Take a look at this perspective.  Person was .13, driving home, he hits a family of 4, killing 2 of them.  Now it's his first offense, so we'll just suspend him for 5-6 games from a basketball season, because he made a mistake.
> 
> WRONG!!



It's hard to disagree with this, I hesitate to take a stance on this topic. I had a DUI, I was 21 year old athlete at Indiana State and was suspended for a meet and basically a slap on the wrist for first time offense, I hadn't had any previous troubles with the law. That said, I was 21 years old and I learned the hard way, but not the hardest way. The hardest way, well that was just described above. Now, because of that lesson learned 5 years ago I don't drive after drinking more than 2 beers, no matter the time frame between drinks. I just don't do it - I'm a more responsible person today because of that arrest.


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## hans1950

I agree he needs to be punished for his lapse of judgement considering his position in the community.I assume the school corporation has some guidelines for such infractions and they will be followed in this case.He will also be judged and punished accordingly in the legal system as anyone else would be.Probably his toughest punishment will be looking his students and players in the eye and trying to regain their respect.This will indeed be a learning opportunity for everyone.I don't think he should lose either of his positions for this first offense.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

If I had a say in the matter I probably wouldn't fire him - although sometimes situations like this are used to make an example. I'm just not sure that suspending someone for a few games acknowledges the seriousness of this issue. He's a grown man and he knows the amount of money nationally that is dedicated to putting people in jail for DUI. If you get pulled over/arrested for DUI in this day and age it really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, if you drink and drive you take that risk. Is he a bad guy, bad teacher, bad person? No, he made a mistake - some sort of suspension should be levied and I'd hope that it's more than just a couple games.


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## StateAlum

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Now, because of that lesson learned 5 years ago I don't drive after drinking more than 2 beers, no matter the time frame between drinks. I just don't do it - I'm a more responsible person today because of that arrest.



Very responsible actions, I commend this behavior!

I simply created this thread to spawn some coversation, as it appears no one was commenting on WTHI's website related to the story, which had me believing that this would quickly be pushed into the closet.

Thankfully no one was hurt by these actions, and hopefully a lesson was learned.  People do make mistakes, and should learn/pay for those mistakes, otherwise w/o consequences there are no corrective actions taken and mistakes turn into problems.

Now back to ISU Football!!


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## dr. bucket

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> If I had a say in the matter I probably wouldn't fire him - although sometimes situations like this are used to make an example. I'm just not sure that suspending someone for a few games acknowledges the seriousness of this issue. He's a grown man and he knows the amount of money nationally that is dedicated to putting people in jail for DUI. If you get pulled over/arrested for DUI in this day and age it really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, if you drink and drive you take that risk. Is he a bad guy, bad teacher, bad person? No, he made a mistake - some sort of suspension should be levied and I'd hope that it's more than just a couple games.



yet by your previous line of reasoning, one meet was enough for you and you were according to the law a grown adult. and you were in a position of trust


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## SycamoreStateofMind

dr. bucket said:


> yet by your previous line of reasoning, one meet was enough for you and you were according to the law a grown adult. and you were in a position of trust



Indeed, although I appreciate the slap on the wrist for a first time offender because by all means facing my parents, pleading guilty, fines, community services and taking my license away from me was punishment enough - I can't say that I didn't deserve worse than what was handed down on me. I think I was very fortunate, that I didn't seriously hurt anyone, my passenger or myself. Also very fortunate to only miss one meet and keep my job. 

Bucket - I think this is why I said, I'm not sure I am in a position to take a stance. I see both sides of the argument and I'm not sure I have a right or wrong an answer. Look bucket, what you don't know is about 6 months prior to my DUI my best friend died in a car accident - the driver of that car had been drinking (although under the legal limit). The lesson in this, as if losing my best friend wasn't enough - I simply didn't learn my lesson from that. I didn't learn my lesson, unfortunately.


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## dr. bucket

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Indeed, although I appreciate the slap on the wrist for a first time offender because by all means facing my parents, pleading guilty, fines, community services and taking my license away from me was punishment enough - I can't say that I didn't deserve worse than what was handed down on me. I think I was very fortunate, that I didn't seriously hurt anyone, my passenger or myself. Also very fortunate to only miss one meet and keep my job.
> 
> Bucket - I think this is why I said, I'm not sure I am in a position to take a stance. I see both sides of the argument and I'm not sure I have a right or wrong an answer.



"No, he made a mistake - some sort of suspension should be levied and I'd hope that it's more than just a couple games." 


seems like a stance to me; one that advocates harsher treatment than you earned. can;t have it both ways


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## SycamoreStateofMind

dr. bucket said:


> seems like a stance to me; one that advocates harsher treatment than you earned. can;t have it both ways



Yeah I see what your saying, just because the arrest and the death of my friend combined were enough for me to see the light doesn't mean that everyone else will react the same. Everyones situation is different, I guess in all actuality I don't have a good answer. My point is this, had I been suspended for the entire season for my DUI then I would have accepted that punishment, as I made the choice to drink and drive. Just like I pled guilty in court, I have also pleed guilty in the court of public opinion. I screwed up and its not something ive shyed away from and acted like it never happened. The point is simple, don't drink and drive don't put your professional carrer as a coach, athlete, teacher, police officer whatever at risk. That simple. The pumishment I recived work for me, my no means does that make my situation the standard.


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## dr. bucket

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Yeah I see what your saying, just because the arrest and the death of my friend combined were enough for me to see the light doesn't mean that everyone else will react the same. Everyones situation is different, I guess in all actuality I don't have a good answer. My point is this, had I been suspended for the entire season for my DUI then I would have accepted that punishment, as I made the choice to drink and drive. Just like I pled guilty in court, I have also pleed guilty in the court of public opinion. I screwed up and its not something ive shyed away from and acted like it never happened. The point is simple, don't drink and drive don't put your professional carrer as a coach, athlete, teacher, police officer whatever at risk. That simple. The pumishment I recived work for me, my no means does that make my situation the standard.



and don't say i don't think i can have a stance and then say here's my stance. neither advocate for a stricter punishment. that's the point. got nothing to do with your friend.


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## Daveinth

You see this.is what's wrong with this country if they are a public figure people some say.give them a pass . I have a hard time with this mentality . Drinking and driving kills. Drugs kill people there's a reason laws are made . This coach made the choice to drink and drive the same as he made a choice to coach and become a public figure . This falls into the same mentality of I have to  take a drug test to keep my job why do teachers and coaches not have to? Because they are held on a pedestal and people do not want to hold them to higher standards and that's crap...


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## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> You see this.is what's wrong with this country if they are a public figure people some say.give them a pass . I have a hard time with this mentality . Drinking and driving kills. Drugs kill people there's a reason laws are made . This coach made the choice to drink and drive the same as he made a choice to coach and become a public figure . This falls into the same mentality of I have to  take a drug test to keep my job why do teachers and coaches not have to? Because they are held on a pedestal and people do not want to hold them to higher standards and that's crap...



i daresay there's more wrong with  this country than this issue. you forgot that guns kill people and i am definitely for outlawing them.

i don't see anyone on here who has advocated giving him a pass


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## SycamoreStateofMind

dr. bucket said:


> and don't say i don't think i can have a stance and then say here's my stance. neither advocate for a stricter punishment. that's the point. got nothing to do with your friend.



Ok fine... Sorry


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## LoyalAlum

Daveinth said:


> You see this.is what's wrong with this country if they are a public figure people some say.give them a pass . I have a hard time with this mentality . Drinking and driving kills. Drugs kill people there's a reason laws are made . This coach made the choice to drink and drive the same as he made a choice to coach and become a public figure . This falls into the same mentality of I have to  take a drug test to keep my job why do teachers and coaches not have to? Because they are held on a pedestal and people do not want to hold them to higher standards and that's crap...



If you think teachers ARE held on a pedestal and AREN'T held to a higher standard, you've got some research to do.  This ain't 1950.  It's the complete opposite.  Parents, businesses, and the media have a complete disdain for educators, yet continue to hold them to higher standards than just about any profession I can think of.  

People just don't get what teachers go through on a daily basis, yet everyone thinks he's an expert.  Sad.


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## True Blue

LoyalAlum said:


> People just don't get what teachers go through on a daily basis, yet everyone thinks he's an expert.  Sad.



I think I have a pretty good idea what teachers and coaches go through on a daily basis!  With that, I think he should be fired from coaching.   If Vigo county wants to stay consistent, he will be let go.  However, Vigo Co. subscribes to the "good ol'boy" network.  We'll see how connected he really is.

There are some professions in life that I feel you can't have things like a DUI.  Teaching/coaching is one.  I've driven drunk in my life and never got caught.(in college)  Even though I never got caught, it is something I never do know(for at least the past 10 years) and a lot of that has to do with not wanting to lose my job, along with just being absolutely stupid.  It's a touchy situation with him being a teacher.  If he was only a teacher, most students/parents would probably never know.   However, him being a coach has allowed it all to come out publicly.


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## Eleven

LoyalAlum said:


> But we need good teachers, right?  Why the hell would anyone go into teaching when *the pay is bad*, the hours are atrocious, there's *zero respect from parents* or society, and you're *held to a higher standard than anyone. * It's ridiculous.



THIS is what I was really referring to.


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## Eleven

StateAlum said:


> What kind of punishment would he have for a player whom would be caught drinking, or arrested?
> 
> :naughty:



Varies from school to school believe it or not.  At TH North, it will result in suspension from the team (and no participation) for 1/4 of the season.


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## JustAskin

dr. Bucket said:


> i daresay there's more wrong with  this country than this issue. You forgot that guns kill people and i am definitely for outlawing them.
> 
> I don't see anyone on here who has advocated giving him a pass


people kill people


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## Eleven

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I'm just not sure that suspending someone for a few games acknowledges the seriousness of this issue.


That is certainly not all that will happen.  Trust me.
However, even with OTHER punishments, the fact that it has been plastered all over the news - and that he will have to address a team full of athletes that he just let down will also serve as "punishment" - wouldn't you think?


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## Eleven

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Indeed, although I appreciate the slap on the wrist for a first time offender because by all means facing my parents, pleading guilty, fines, community services and taking my license away from me was punishment enough - I can't say that I didn't deserve worse than what was handed down on me. I think I was very fortunate, that I didn't seriously hurt anyone, my passenger or myself. Also very fortunate to only miss one meet and keep my job.



Imagine PUBLIC ridicule and exposure on top of that...


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## BankShot

*Tip of the Iceberg...*

...for Tanoos & Co. I see the termination of his hoop position and probationary status of his teaching job. Once he's reestablishes "public trust" and the incident dies down, he can safely re-emerge if his heart is still in the game.

Here's what's percolating in Louisville now on the Charlestown HS Principal DUI charges:

http://www.wlky.com/r/29109903/detail.html


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## dr. bucket

JustAskin said:


> people kill people



people armed with guns (and other things) kill more people than people who aren't armed


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## region rat

*Who are we to judge?*

To me I'm leaving it up to the legal system and the Vigo County School Corporation to judge what Coach Woefle has done.  If you differ with their decisions then you have different ways/rights of giving your opinion and to change things.  

Given he made a serious mistake, I think he knows he has to take the responsibility for his actions, but I am not going to say what his punishment should be.  Coach seems to be a standup and quality person.


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## JustAskin

dr. bucket said:


> people armed with guns (and other things) kill more people than people who aren't armed


Well lets just out law box cutters while we're at it. 10 years ago we lost near 3000 lives when people armed with boxcutters got on planes.  That argument is old,  and it still boils down to the common factor of "people". According to the CDC and the Justice Departmentthe number of deaths by firearms and the alcohol related death are nearly the same in the U.S., around 12,000.


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## rapala

Not saying how this should go.  As an administrator, I can tell you it is not any problem to deal.  My question is "when was the last time you saw someone pull over for not dimming the their lights?"  That's what seemed strange to me.


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## BankShot

*No Dimming*

In *Missouri*, 90% of the population would be incarcerated...worst state in America by a long shot! No consideration whatsoever for the oncoming driver. :krazy:


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## SycamoreStateofMind

rapala said:


> Not saying how this should go.  As an administrator, I can tell you it is not any problem to deal.  My question is "when was the last time you saw someone pull over for not dimming the their lights?"  That's what seemed strange to me.



I got pulled over for failure to signal a lane change ok. I've heard on the po po scanner someome get pulled over for having to much dust on their plates so it wasn't visable... If its after midnight they will pull you over for anything to find out if you've been drinking. Just give them a reason.


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## Gotta Hav

dr. bucket said:


> i daresay there's more wrong with  this country than this issue. you forgot that guns kill people and i am definitely for outlawing them.



I'm for outlawing the sale of step stools, ladders, extension ladders, etc. at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.  I'm also for the total confiscation of all of the aforementioned.

20,000 die people annually in falls and untold numbers end up as para and quadra-palegics......and add the up the people who have other life time injuries, it's just ridiculous that anyone can own such tools. 

Now don't get me started on the idiots who own chainsaws, and other miscellaneous power tools.

Now what was that about guns?   Oh yes, I almost forgot.  I'm for outlawing  pencils too cuz they are the main source of misspelled words.


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## Chief_Quabachi

If the government were to pass legislation to ban and confiscate firearms, the ONLY way they get mine is from the clutch of my cold dead hand.


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## region rat

*Maybe not!*



JustAskin said:


> people kill people



wtf


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## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I got pulled over for failure to signal a lane change ok. I've heard on the po po scanner someome get pulled over for having to much dust on their plates so it wasn't visable... If its after midnight they will pull you over for anything to find out if you've been drinking. Just give them a reason.



"Probable cause" can be a major litigation issue, depending on how much moolah a defendent desires to spend. Highly flexible concept, depending upon the geographic area.

I'll never forget a Volusia County (FL) Sheriff back in the 80's that was stopping specific vehicles that were PROFILED to be used by drug runners. Well, he confiscated an attorney's plane (FL law provides forfeiture of personal property associated with certain crimes) and bit off a lil' more than he could chew, as the FL Attorney General finally clipped the Sheriff's wings. Back then, you had municipal police departments owning jet skis, race boats, Prosche 911S's, etc., as the confiscated vehicles weren't even required to be liquidated and distributed within the various city dept. coffers. That was Florida during the Miami Vice "Don Johnson" era...


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## dr. bucket

Chief_Quabachi said:


> If the government were to pass legislation to ban and confiscate firearms, the ONLY way they get mine is from the clutch of my cold dead hand.



they don't need to; the second amendment only provides for military use


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## JustAskin

dr. bucket said:


> they don't need to; the second amendment only provides for military use


Oh, did we have a NEW decision from the high courts that only you know about. Give me a break.


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## JustAskin

*Supreme Court Decisions*

In 2008 and 2010 the Court ruled that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms for the lawfull protection of themselves and their homes, and that right has no bearing on them being part of a state or federal military(militia).


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## dr. bucket

JustAskin said:


> In 2008 and 2010 the Court ruled that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms for the lawfull protection of themselves and their homes, and that right has no bearing on them being part of a state or federal military(militia).



well leave it to them to rewrite the second amendment; we need to get back to the original constitution


----------



## JustAskin

dr. Bucket said:


> well leave it to them to rewrite the second amendment; we need to get back to the original constitution


what you need to do is read the constitution that was ratified by the states in its form. There is a comma after the part about a well regulated militia seperating it from the phrase talking about the right to keep and bear arms. Seperate thoughts and seperate instructions. Alot has been re-written but this part is not one of them.


----------



## dr. bucket

JustAskin said:


> what you need to do is read the constitution that was ratified by the states in its form. There is a comma after the part about a well regulated militia seperating it from the phrase talking about the right to keep and bear arms. Seperate thoughts and seperate instructions. Alot has been re-written but this part is not one of them.



The meaning of the Second Amendment depends upon who you talk to.  The National Rifle Association, which has the Second Amendment (minus the militia clause) engraved on its headquarters building in Washington.

now that's funny and in and of itself an admission of something

grammatically a semicolon separates two complete thoughts or a comma and a coordinating conjunction. a comma alone and as it is used in the 2nd amendment represents a pause in a single thought

by your line of reasoning the amendment's second comma separates the right to keep and bear arms from the phrase shall not be infringed. two separate thoughts according to your way of thinking. so it is unclear then what shall not be infringed since the clause is not connected to the preceding thought.


----------



## JustAskin

I find it funny that folks continually try to change how it has always been interrupted since it was written, and that the same reason are always given  for why it was interrupted that way. If folks would read other famous speeches of the time, ex. Patrick Henrys' "Give me liberty....", one would see that folks of the colonies were becoming slaves to GB and were being disarmed and unlawfully taxed, we can go on and on. So the framers of our Constitution made it plain that these acts by the government should not be allowed in our government. 

NRA statement is exact as the militia clause has nothing to do with the right to keep and bear arms. As clarified by the recent Supreme Court Decisions mentioned above.  Thank you for making my point.


----------



## dr. bucket

JustAskin said:


> I find it funny that folks continually try to change how it has always been interrupted since it was written, and that the same reason are always given  for why it was interrupted that way. If folks would read other famous speeches of the time, ex. Patrick Henrys' "Give me liberty....", one would see that folks of the colonies were becoming slaves to GB and were being disarmed and unlawfully taxed, we can go on and on. So the framers of our Constitution made it plain that these acts by the government should not be allowed in our government.
> 
> NRA statement is exact as the militia clause has nothing to do with the right to keep and bear arms. As clarified by the recent Supreme Court Decisions mentioned above.  Thank you for making my point.



for the sake of clarity it's interpreted and not interrupted. by definition if something is interpreted – as the constitution is – then the thing changes meaning with each new interpretation. 

and again by your logic the shall not be infringed clause because of the intervening comma has no bearing on the right to keep and bear clause that precedes it. sorry you can't have it both ways.

thank god interpretations change the meaning of the constitution or we'd still have jim crow. these cases you cite are only (wrong) interpretations and someday will go the way of jim crow. i look forward to the day that we live in a gun free land.

it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts.

we shall overcome someday


----------



## JustAskin

insanity.........


----------



## dr. bucket

JustAskin said:


> insanity.........




yes guns are insanity


----------



## dr. bucket

JustAskin said:


> insanity.........




another term open to interpretation


----------



## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> yes guns are insanity



I'll pray for you and your family that no one breaks into your home in the middle of the night.  

If someone breaks into my house, well it maybe the end of them.


----------



## Callmedoc

dr. bucket said:


> another term open to interpretation



Or punctuation for that matter?


----------



## Sycalum82

A new revelation considering the probable cause of this case. It is being said that Coach Woefle did not have his brights on when the said officer flicked his to elicit a response from Coach Woelfle. It is rumored that 2 other motorists have come forward to complain of witnessing this policeman doing this in that area during that time. The theory is that the police are creating an excuse and or probable cause to pull people over when there is no reason. If these rumors are true then he may have the charges dropped.


----------



## StateAlum

Sycalum82 said:


> A new revelation considering the probable cause of this case. It is being said that Coach Woefle did not have his brights on when the said officer flicked his to elicit a response from Coach Woelfle. It is rumored that 2 other motorists have come forward to complain of witnessing this policeman doing this in that area during that time. The theory is that the police are creating an excuse and or probable cause to pull people over when there is no reason. If these rumors are true then he may have the charges dropped.



Yet he broke the law!

Whether there was probable cause for pulling him over or not, he was intoxicated.  They set the legal limit for a purpose.  Your over....You don't drive.

Don't make excuses!


----------



## LoyalAlum

StateAlum said:


> Yet he broke the law!
> 
> Whether there was probable cause for pulling him over or not, he was intoxicated.  They set the legal limit for a purpose.  Your over....You don't drive.
> 
> Don't make excuses!



Doesn't matter.  If the police are using entrapment, that's illegal.  Doesn't matter if there were 6 dead bodies in the car.  Police can't break the law.


----------



## Callmedoc

LoyalAlum said:


> Doesn't matter.  If the police are using entrapment, that's illegal.  Doesn't matter if there were 6 dead bodies in the car.  Police can't break the law.



Tis true.


----------



## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> I'll pray for you and your family that no one breaks into your home in the middle of the night.
> 
> If someone breaks into my house, well it maybe the end of them.



you are the one more likely to be killed


----------



## Callmedoc

dr. bucket said:


> you are the one more likely to be killed



And comments like this are why people on this website don't like you sometimes. I am for gun control but the way you stated this is very bad.


----------



## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> you are the one more likely to be killed



I'd rather die trying to save my family, then running out the front door like a coward.

We'll see if, hopefully not, this ever happens.  

I'm for gun control as well.  In the fact that only people who go through the proper steps should be able to own/carry a gun.


----------



## True Blue

Sometimes?


----------



## Callmedoc

True Blue said:


> I'd rather die trying to save my family, then running out the front door like a coward.
> 
> We'll see if, hopefully not, this ever happens.
> 
> I'm for gun control as well.  In the fact that only people who go through the proper steps should be able to own/carry a gun.



Me too and no civilian needs an mp5 seriously.


----------



## dr. bucket

Dgreenwell3 said:


> Tis true.



well they can but they shouldn't

ask yourself, how many times has someone flicked their brights on at you to signal that they think you have your brights on and then you flick yours on to show them what you brights are really like. so this means you can be pulled over for that instant of having your brights on? and i thought this was america and not a police state.


----------



## dr. bucket

Dgreenwell3 said:


> And comments like this are why people on this website don't like you sometimes. I am for gun control but the way you stated this is very bad.



statistically it's true


----------



## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> I'd rather die trying to save my family, then running out the front door like a coward.
> .[/QUOT
> 
> funny cause that's more or less what the nra recommends


----------



## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> statistically it's true



I have some dispute with those statistics as well.


----------



## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> True Blue said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather die trying to save my family, then running out the front door like a coward.
> .[/QUOT
> 
> funny cause that's more or less what the nra recommends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I wouldn't know because I don't belong to the NRA.
Click to expand...


----------



## JustAskin

dr. bucket said:


> statistically it's true


provide the link to those stats, quotes are easy to say and most times harder to prove. 

as far as the blinking light theory, let wait to see what the facts are ref. to what the police did or didn't do


----------



## dr. bucket

JustAskin said:


> provide the link to those stats, quotes are easy to say and most times harder to prove.
> 
> as far as the blinking light theory, let wait to see what the facts are ref. to what the police did or didn't do



i believe the coach and the citizen witnesses.


----------



## JustAskin

dr. bucket said:


> i believe the coach and the citizen witnesses.


just like your stats!!!! real simple, avoid the hard questions


----------



## Callmedoc

dr. bucket said:


> statistically it's true



Please provide the statistic that isn't skewed by untrained idiots that have no business with a gun.


----------



## dr. bucket

JustAskin said:


> just like your stats!!!! real simple, avoid the hard questions



look up the kellerman study


----------



## True Blue

Look up Kellerman study debunked.


----------



## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> Look up Kellerman study debunked.



look up nra. lol


----------



## Patriot_Sycamore

dr. bucket said:


> i daresay there's more wrong with  this country than this issue. you forgot that guns kill people and i am definitely for outlawing them.
> 
> i don't see anyone on here who has advocated giving him a pass




Guns dont kill , people with guns do, follow that line of thought and we wouldnt have cars because they kill people.


----------



## dr. bucket

Patriot_Sycamore said:


> Guns dont kill , people with guns do, follow that line of thought and we wouldnt have cars because they kill people.


 
i think intent is the key issue here.


----------



## Patriot_Sycamore

Throwing the baby out with the bath water is what it is. Responsible gun ownership is what I want. Same with responsible car ownership, I dont drive reckless or drunk.....

My guns are kept safe and out of sight......but for the one who trys to break into my house where my wife and kids sleep.........


----------



## dr. bucket

Patriot_Sycamore said:


> Throwing the baby out with the bath water is what it is. Responsible gun ownership is what I want. Same with responsible car ownership, I dont drive reckless or drunk.....
> 
> My guns are kept safe and out of sight......but for the one who trys to break into my house where my wife and kids sleep.........



no a car is made as an instrument of transportation; a gun is made as an instrument of death.

i'd be willing to bet that the number of intentional deaths caused by drivers in their cars is much less than the number of intentional deaths caused by gun owners using their guns. i dont know about drive by shootings


----------



## Callmedoc

Patriot_Sycamore said:


> Throwing the baby out with the bath water is what it is. Responsible gun ownership is what I want. Same with responsible car ownership, I dont drive reckless or drunk.....
> 
> My guns are kept safe and out of sight......but for the one who trys to break into my house where my wife and kids sleep.........



I concur with this. I have come to the conclusion that sometimes the ones who fall on the extremes of issues are the only ones heard. I think what patriot sycamore describes here is the best thought. Fix gun laws don't destroy them or make guns illegal


----------



## Callmedoc

dr. bucket said:


> no a car is made as an instrument of transportation; a gun is made as an instrument of death.
> 
> i'd be willing to bet that the number of intentional deaths caused by drivers is much less than the number of intentional deaths caused by gun owners.



By that same token alcohol is an instrument of death...should we make those illegal too?


----------



## dr. bucket

Dgreenwell3 said:


> By that same token alcohol is an instrument of death...should we make those illegal too?



is it sold for that reason? what is the intent of the manufacturer? guns are only good for two things. killing and paperweights

i guess you can use a gun as a relaxant too; hit it john

Happiness (is a warm gun)
Bang Bang Shoot Shoot
Happiness (is a warm gun, momma)
Bang Bang Shoot Shoot

(When I hold you in my arms)
Oooooooooh, oh yeah!

And when I feel my finger on your trigger
Oooooooooh, oh yeah!

I know nobody can do me no harm
Oooooooooh, oh yeah!

Happiness (is a warm gun, momma)
Bang Bang Shoot Shoot


----------



## JustAskin

dr. bucket said:


> no a car is made as an instrument of transportation; a gun is made as an instrument of death.
> 
> i'd be willing to bet that the number of intentional deaths caused by drivers in their cars is much less than the number of intentional deaths caused by gun owners using their guns. i dont know about drive by shootings


32708 deaths by auto 2010
12000 deaths by gun 2010 

source the CDC


----------



## 4Q_iu

dr. bucket said:


> no a car is made as an instrument of transportation; a gun is made as an instrument of death...



How many people have been killed with Red Rider BB gun?


----------



## dr. bucket

4Q_iu said:


> How many people have been killed with Red Rider BB gun?



some of black bart's boys


----------



## Callmedoc

JustAskin said:


> 32708 deaths by auto 2010
> 12000 deaths by gun 2010
> 
> source the CDC


 And boom goes the dynamite


----------



## dr. bucket

Dgreenwell3 said:


> And boom goes the dynamite



and here is what is meaningful: what percentage of car deaths were accidental

what percentage of gun deaths were intentional

boom bamm goes the hydrogen bomb


----------



## 4Q_iu

dr. bucket said:


> and here is what is meaningful: what percentage of car deaths were accidental
> 
> what percentage of gun deaths were intentional
> 
> boom bamm goes the hydrogen bomb



What percent of gun deaths were accidental?

What percent of car deaths were intentional?


----------



## 4Q_iu

dr. bucket said:


> some of black bart's boys



Can you prove that?


----------



## dr. bucket

4Q_iu said:


> Can you prove that?



dvd but it wasn't a standard manufacture red rider. the company never made that gun for sale


----------



## 4Q_iu

dr. bucket said:


> dvd but it wasn't a standard manufacture red rider. the company never made that gun for sale



So, you're saying that all BB guns are made as "instruments of death?"

Good grief; my childhood buddies must have died a thousand times --- Not sure why we didn't dub one of them Lazarus...


----------



## dr. bucket

4Q_iu said:


> So, you're saying that all BB guns are made as "instruments of death?"
> 
> Good grief; my childhood buddies must have died a thousand times --- Not sure why we didn't dub one of them Lazarus...



no just of eye removal


----------



## Daveinth

> is it sold for that reason? what is the intent of the manufacturer? guns are only good for two things. killing and paperweights


Skeet shooting, target shooting there are a number of things guns can be useful for if done correctly they can be a great source of entertaiment. Ever attend a s spot shoot?


----------



## 4Q_iu

dr. bucket said:


> no just of eye removal



Hmmm --- I guess I was confused when you clearly stated guns are instruments of death...


----------



## dr. bucket

4Q_iu said:


> Hmmm --- I guess I was confused when you clearly stated guns are instruments of death...




excuse me i should have specified non-toy guns. although i guess you could kill someone with a capgun or bb or pellet gun by beating them over the head with it.


----------



## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> Skeet shooting, target shooting there are a number of things guns can be useful for if done correctly they can be a great source of entertaiment. Ever attend a s spot shoot?



never touched a gun and never will


----------



## Callmedoc

dr. bucket said:


> excuse me i should have specified non-toy guns. although i guess you could kill someone with a capgun or bb or pellet gun by beating them over the head with it.



My father can kill people with clothing, should we outlaw those?


----------



## Gotta Hav

Dgreenwell3 said:


> Me too and no civilian needs an mp5 seriously.



And I don't know if it's necessary that our Police and Sheriff Departments be armed to the teeth, with the most extreme of weapons either.


----------



## Gotta Hav

dr. bucket said:


> The meaning of the Second Amendment depends upon who you talk to.



The meaning of the First Amendment, depends upon who you talk to.

Did I ever tell you how much I'm opposed to Free Speech?   

There are just some people, who should not be allowed to have access to pens, paper, and now computers.


----------



## Callmedoc

Gotta Hav said:


> And I don't know if it's necessary that our Police and Sheriff Departments be armed to the teeth, with the most extreme of weapons either.



I don't think they need a tank but automatic weapons are needed for them because criminals always seem to have them.


----------



## Gotta Hav

dr. bucket said:


> True Blue said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather die trying to save my family, then running out the front door like a coward.
> .[/QUOT
> 
> funny cause that's more or less what the nra recommends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> Can you, more or less, prove by footnotes, periodical release, quotes, a hotlink, a youtube video of Wayne LaPierre, etc. or any NRA member saying something even remotely that ridiculous?
> 
> I know I would like to see this more or less NRA ecommendation, and I'm sure others would too.....if you can't, it looks you've written another check....that SP bloggers can't cash.
Click to expand...


----------



## Gotta Hav

Dgreenwell3 said:


> I don't think they need a tank but automatic weapons are needed for them because criminals always seem to have them.



DG.....criminals do not ALWAYS have automatic weapons.  

The only time that has ever happened was in Los Angeles some 25 some years when those two hoods got caught robbing a bank.   The movie Heat, kind of romanticized and re-enacted that event.

Other than that, I don't know when a criminal had an automatic weapon.


----------



## Callmedoc

Gotta Hav said:


> DG.....criminals do not ALWAYS have automatic weapons.
> 
> The only time that has ever happened was in Los Angeles some 25 some years when those two hoods got caught robbing a bank.   The movie Heat, kind of romanticized and re-enacted that event.
> 
> Other than that, I don't know when a criminal had an automatic weapon.



Didn't intend to act like they always have them...I have seen many more times (cant pinpoint exact times) but tech nines find their ways onto the streets quite a bit and are used regularly in drive bys...


----------



## Sycamore Proud

*7 game suspension*

http://tribstar.com/latest/x2127772...boys-basketball-coach-suspended-first-7-games


I feel he got off with a slap on the wrist from the school corporation.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Sycamore Proud said:


> http://tribstar.com/latest/x2127772...boys-basketball-coach-suspended-first-7-games
> 
> 
> I feel he got off with a slap on the wrist from the school corporation.



I feel like I said that Mike Menser would fall back into to the equation.


----------



## hans1950

I don't condone his actions in any way but I feel that his punishment from the school corporation is fair.He does have to also give up pay and sign a letter of resignation that takes affect if he ever has this problem again.He still will suffer loss of respect at school and within the community,I don't think we need blood too.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

I'm not very open minded about drunk driving.  One of my best friend's parents were killed by a drunk driver near Brazil several years ago.  I view that as second degree murder and drunk driving without the fatal accident as attempted murder.  There is nothing anyone here can say to change my mind.  Don't waste your time trying.


----------



## IndianaState45

Yea, I have a friend who grew up without a mom because of a drunk driver. People make mistakes, but it wasn't a .09 kinda night. He should have known better. 7 games? That seems light for a person with his type of influence over children. Do we hold him to a higher standard as others have suggested? Absolutely. I probably fall in the "resign as a coach....keep your main paycheck and teaching job" camp. otherwise what message do we send to those kids....hey it's ok to break the rules ....you'll just get slapped.


----------



## Teamwork

The VCSC should have taken this opportunity that was handed to them on a platter to "correct" a hiring mistake in the first place.  With the number of recruits from North that have gone on to play college ball, including some D1 players, none of his teams ever showed any coaching expertise and never did meet expectations, usually failing to even win a sectional.   Oh well, the VCSC good old boy network misses the mark again.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Dgreenwell3 said:


> Didn't intend to act like they always have them...I have seen many more times (cant pinpoint exact times) but tech nines find their ways onto the streets quite a bit and are used regularly in drive bys...



DG......yes, there are T9's and some may be on the streets, and in the hands of criminals.....but are they automatic?   I doubt it.   

Do you realize how hard it is to have and own an automatic weapon?  And I don't know what city you live in, but the number of drive-by shootings done with automatic T9's or other automatic weapons is just dramatization by movies, TV and poor reporting by the news media.

Fort Wayne definitely has its share of murders, gangs, and drug cartel violence....but have we ever had automatic weapon fire on a drive-by shooting.....not that I know of.  Have there been drive-by shootings, yes.

And, I hate to sound patronizing, but you do understand the difference between automatic, and semi-automatic, right?

And trust me, if someone is commiting a crime with a gun...I believe they should go to prison for a very long time.

P.S.  Can you believe this weather.....I could have sworn my neighbors roof had frost on it yesterday morning!


----------



## Callmedoc

Gotta Hav said:


> DG......yes, there are T9's and some may be on the streets, and in the hands of criminals.....but are they automatic?   I doubt it.
> 
> Do you realize how hard it is to have and own an automatic weapon?  And I don't know what city you live in, but the number of drive-by shootings done with automatic T9's or other automatic weapons is just dramatization by movies, TV and poor reporting by the news media.
> 
> Fort Wayne definitely has its share of murders, gangs, and drug cartel violence....but have we ever had automatic weapon fire on a drive-by shooting.....not that I know of.  Have there been drive-by shootings, yes.
> 
> And, I hate to sound patronizing, but you do understand the difference between automatic, and semi-automatic, right?
> 
> And trust me, if someone is commiting a crime with a gun...I believe they should go to prison for a very long time.
> 
> P.S.  Can you believe this weather.....I could have sworn my neighbors roof had frost on it yesterday morning!



Of course I know the difference lol a. I live in the video game era and b. My dad taught me how to assemble a 9mm when I was 7.
Where I live doesnt have many problems with weaponry like this.
When I lived in southern California it was pretty obvious that if criminals wanted an automatic t9 they could.
I don't think civilians need automatic weaponry, I just don't think it's needed. 
On the subject of weather;" giminy h christ " as coach raetz would say.


----------



## dr. bucket

Teamwork said:


> The VCSC should have taken this opportunity that was handed to them on a platter to "correct" a hiring mistake in the first place.  With the number of recruits from North that have gone on to play college ball, including some D1 players, none of his teams ever showed any coaching expertise and never did meet expectations, usually failing to even win a sectional.   Oh well, the VCSC good old boy network misses the mark again.



that's some axe to grind. did he cut you or your kid? 

the dui is one thing (and i don't condone it) but this is another issue altogether. but hey let's all jump on someone when they're down. seems to be the thing to do.

instead, why don't you take this opportunity to volunteer as a coach at north and share your expertise. the mic is waiting for you.


----------



## Eleven

Sycamore Proud said:


> http://tribstar.com/latest/x2127772...boys-basketball-coach-suspended-first-7-games
> 
> 
> I feel he got off with a slap on the wrist from the school corporation.



It is 30% of the season...


----------



## Daveinth

If a student is caught drinking he is forced to sit out 7 games . If a coach who  is being paid is given the same punishment there is little deterrent or very light punishment MAAD should jump down the ass of the VCSC and say look what your coaches who are being paid to set an example are doing


----------



## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> If a student is caught drinking he is forced to sit out 7 games . If a coach who  is being paid is given the same punishment there is little deterrent or very light punishment MAAD should jump down the ass of the VCSC and say look what your coaches who are being paid to set an example are doing



at thn for a basketball player, the penalty is 4 games.


----------



## Daveinth

Check again its a VCSC policy  the school cannot reduce it.  Unless the corporation has changed their policy since last spring


----------



## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> Check again its a VCSC policy  the school cannot reduce it.  Unless the corporation has changed their policy since last spring



check again into how long the last thn basketbal player to be caught drinking had to sit out.


----------



## Daveinth

I can name several athletes who  have been busted for it at both Terre Haute schools and they were all given the same punishment for all sports. Depending on length of season and basketball is one of the longer seasons


----------



## Bluesier

Nate Blank- first four games of the season.


----------



## Callmedoc

Bluesier said:


> Nate Blank- first four games of the season.



That was a long time ago no?


----------



## Bluesier

He graduated in 2007, so 4 years ago, pretty ancient huh?


----------



## Callmedoc

Bluesier said:


> He graduated in 2007, so 4 years ago, pretty ancient huh?



I was just stating that theoretically they could have changes restrictions.


----------



## dr. bucket

Dgreenwell3 said:


> I was just stating that theoretically they could have changes restrictions.



hypothetically anything could happen


----------



## Daveinth

Ok somebody please make me understand this because all these posts being made I cannot for the life of me figure out how so many of you people are defending this guy fact are he broke the damn law. I drink beer but never will I drive afterwards its called being a responsible adult. They make laws for a reason. This coach and teacher broke the.law they chose to be a public figure. They chose to break the law . Having a  COACH who drinks and drives trying to guide his players and teach them to do what they are told to do is like having a whore trying to teach little girls to abstain from sex. This and any coach who breaks the law should be fired .


----------



## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> Ok somebody please make me understand this because all these posts being made I cannot for the life of me figure out how so many of you people are defending this guy fact are he broke the damn law. I drink beer but never will I drive afterwards its called being a responsible adult. They make laws for a reason. This coach and teacher broke the.law they chose to be a public figure. They chose to break the law . Having a  COACH who drinks and drives trying to guide his players and teach them to do what they are told to do is like having a whore trying to teach little girls to abstain from sex. This and any coach who breaks the law should be fired .



under the coach's constitutional rights, he is still innocent and may be able to prove that in a court of law.

why are all the people who teach and facilitate in AA alcoholics? why is bristol palin and chirstine o'donnell spokespersons for abstinence.

and where is the rule saying it's seven games. as they say in missouri show me.

and its not about having people do what they are told to do (that would be a fascist state); it's about helping them make good decisions. you know to use their own minds. to think.

and you have never drank and driven at any time in your life. not driven drunk but drank and drove.


----------



## Bluesier

I think Coach was 100% wrong and for people that say he could have killed someone... coulda should woulda, I mean get out of here with that bullshit.  He is paying for his actions with the consequences from the law of a DUI, a big portion of the season suspended, the embarrassment of the entire community, the loss of respect from the community and most importantly his team and students, and the embarrassment of this conversation right here on SycamorePride.  He is suffering right now and rightfully so with the actions he committed.  I do not believe he should be fired at all for one mistake in his life.  For those of you idiots that think he should be fired need to think about it a little more.  If coach goes on to coach at North for 20 more seasons (only puts him at 55) and you say an average of about 25 games per season, that means if you fire him you will be suspending him for 500 GAMES!!  It was a horrible and very regretful mistake but not worth the suspension of 500 games.  

I am glad to see Coach Menser back up his close friend and help out with the team.


----------



## Callmedoc

Bluesier said:


> I think Coach was 100% wrong and for people that say he could have killed someone... coulda should woulda, I mean get out of here with that bullshit.  He is paying for his actions with the consequences from the law of a DUI, a big portion of the season suspended, the embarrassment of the entire community, the loss of respect from the community and most importantly his team and students, and the embarrassment of this conversation right here on SycamorePride.  He is suffering right now and rightfully so with the actions he committed.  I do not believe he should be fired at all for one mistake in his life.  For those of you idiots that think he should be fired need to think about it a little more.  If coach goes on to coach at North for 20 more seasons (only puts him at 55) and you say an average of about 25 games per season, that means if you fire him you will be suspending him for 500 GAMES!!  It was a horrible and very regretful mistake but not worth the suspension of 500 games.
> 
> I am glad to see Coach Menser back up his close friend and help out with the team.



Plus one1


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## Daveinth

My response to this is wake the help up . In any job if you bring embarrassment to the place of business you work for you get fired. He not only broke the law he has embarrassed the company he works for and that is the law abiding citizens who pay taxes so he can coach. Sorry no sympathy for this guy . And to answer your question NO I Have never been drunk and driven a car I refuse to break the law. It's called responsibility something I was taught as a young child. Had he wrecked into a family of 2 adults and 2 kids and killed them all then he would have suspended several generations of potential players . It's not like he was arrested for jaywalking he had a 2 ton weapon .


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## Eleven

Daveinth said:


> If a student is caught drinking he is forced to sit out 7 games . If a coach who  is being paid is given the same punishment there is little deterrent or very light punishment MAAD should jump down the ass of the VCSC and say look what your coaches who are being paid to set an example are doing



It is 20% of the games for a student at THN.


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## Chief_Quabachi

Plus two(2) to Bluesier and DGreenwell3's posts.


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## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> My response to this is wake the help up . In any job if you bring embarrassment to the place of business you work for you get fired. He not only broke the law he has embarrassed the company he works for and that is the law abiding citizens who pay taxes so he can coach. Sorry no sympathy for this guy . And to answer your question NO I Have never been drunk and driven a car I refuse to break the law. It's called responsibility something I was taught as a young child. Had he wrecked into a family of 2 adults and 2 kids and killed them all then he would have suspended several generations of potential players . It's not like he was arrested for jaywalking he had a 2 ton weapon .



the question was not have you ever driven drunk it was have you ever had a drink and then gotten behind the wheel at any point in your life?


never broken a law? if this is true you can cast all the stones, even a few at glass houses, that you would like


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## Daveinth

Again the answer is no was taught as a kid to obey the law and had that beat in my head again as a marine.


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## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> Again the answer is no was taught as a kid to obey the law and had that beat in my head again as a marine.



that's all i need to know


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## Daveinth

Eleven said:


> It is 20% of the games for a student at THN.



Which is how many games? If its only 4 then the schools only play 20 games? I did change it to say it was a percentage of games played .


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## Eleven

Daveinth said:


> Which is how many games? If its only 4 then the schools only play 20 games? I did change it to say it was a percentage of games played .



Different number of games for the different sports and different years.
It's 20% of the season.


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## Daveinth

dr. bucket said:


> that's all i need to know



I am so happy of that.........


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## LoyalAlum

Chief_Quabachi said:


> Plus two(2) to Bluesier and DGreenwell3's posts.



Plus three  :wordyo:


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## Daveinth

So we are saying if I am reading these correct its ok to break the law as long as you are a coach and you get suspended for it. So in the minds of many its ok for a coach to smoke pot I mean really there's nothing wrong with that its not like they have random piss tests .Just don't kill anyone your a freaking coach you might win a game someday


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## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> So we are saying if I am reading these correct its ok to break the law as long as you are a coach and you get suspended for it. So in the minds of many its ok for a coach to smoke pot I mean really there's nothing wrong with that its not like they have random piss tests .Just don't kill anyone your a freaking coach you might win a game someday



that isn't what people are saying. no one is condoning the action; they are not defending that. they are saying they agree with the punishment as far as him being. his guilt or innocence for the alleged crime is still to be determined. that's the constitution.


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## LoyalAlum

So texting and driving, which results in a minor fine, should really result in the loss of job and public humiliation?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/31545004/Texting_And_Driving_Worse_Than_Drinking_and_Driving

I'm not condoning either, just pointing out the stigma attached to one vs. the other.

Texting and driving is more dangerous AND is against the law. Should the same penalties apply to texting/emailing as drinking?  

It's very much about public perception and political correctness, it seems.


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## region rat

*What's Your Beef!*



Daveinth said:


> So we are saying if I am reading these correct its ok to break the law as long as you are a coach and you get suspended for it. So in the minds of many its ok for a coach to smoke pot I mean really there's nothing wrong with that its not like they have random piss tests .Just don't kill anyone your a freaking coach you might win a game someday



No, it is not ok.  

Coach violated a VCSC policy(s) and violated the state law.  

The school corporation (probably some sort of board who has that responsibility) provided their punishment as interpreted from the policy(s).  

The violation of the law is pending Coach's "due process" as provided for by the law--I would expect some form of punishment as interpreted by a Judge and his review of the facts regarding the incident.

And when you compare smoking pot and DUI you are comparing apples to oranges.  Polices and laws are written to deal with them separately as they are not the same thing.


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## Bluesier

LoyalAlum said:


> So texting and driving, which results in a minor fine, should really result in the loss of job and public humiliation?
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/31545004/Texting_And_Driving_Worse_Than_Drinking_and_Driving
> 
> I'm not condoning either, just pointing out the stigma attached to one vs. the other.
> 
> Texting and driving is more dangerous AND is against the law. Should the same penalties apply to texting/emailing as drinking?
> 
> It's very much about public perception and political correctness, it seems.



Dave, you really cannot argue with this.  Drinking and driving is just as dangerous and illegal as texting and driving.  I am sure you would not be advocating for Coach to be fired if he would have been pulled over this past weekend for texting and driving???


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## Daveinth

Calm down I am making the point that a 7 game suspension is not at all enough of a penalty. As well teachers and coaches are not  subject to random piss test . Yet other state employees are subject to these tests . I would think that in these job capacities these individuals would be required to submit to and pass drug screening the way most people who have jobs are required to do.


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## Daveinth

LoyalAlum said:


> So texting and driving, which results in a minor fine, should really result in the loss of job and public humiliation?
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/31545004/Texting_And_Driving_Worse_Than_Drinking_and_Driving
> 
> I'm not condoning either, just pointing out the stigma attached to one vs. the other.
> 
> Texting and driving is more dangerous AND is against the law. Should the same penalties apply to texting/emailing as drinking?
> 
> It's very much about public perception and political correctness, it seems.


Sorry I disagree with the argument that Texting and driving are equals not even close unless your drunk who is Texting while driving . When u drink and drive you cannot make the judgements the way u can if your sober . Texting is a distraction the same can be said about listening to music or watching movies on your phone while driving although stupid does not alter your ability to make judgements the way drinking and drugs do.


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## LoyalAlum

Daveinth said:


> Sorry I disagree with the argument that Texting and driving are equals not even close unless your drunk who is Texting while driving . When u drink and drive you cannot make the judgements the way u can if your sober . Texting is a distraction the same can be said about listening to music or watching movies on your phone while driving although stupid does not alter your ability to make judgements the way drinking and drugs do.



People text and drive all the time, thus the laws springing up around the country.  You can disagree all you want, but the stats are there.


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## Sycamore Proud

Daveinth said:


> Sorry I disagree with the argument that Texting and driving are equals not even close unless your drunk who is Texting while driving . When u drink and drive you cannot make the judgements the way u can if your sober . Texting is a distraction the same can be said about listening to music or watching movies on your phone while driving although stupid does not alter your ability to make judgements the way drinking and drugs do.



Totally agree!  When I was teaching I was a voluntary member of one drug pool (general school population) and was a required member of another (school bus driver).  My number came up 4 times in one year.


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## Eleven

Sycamore Proud said:


> Totally agree!  When I was teaching I was a voluntary member of one drug pool (general school population) and was a required member of another (school bus driver).  My number came up 4 times in one year.



Not sure how this in ANY way applies to the situation, however...
Unless some are implying that RANDOM "p!ss" tests occur on weekends after midnight?


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## dr. bucket

hypothetical situation here: a high school coach invites an unauthorized person to sit in the press box during a game. subsequently, this person's volatile behavior is responsible for injuring several students and adults, some of whom are taken to the hospital. this individual has no connection to the school or corporation. he is lucky that the injuries weren't more severe and the potential for a fatal injury was there.

what should be done to the coach
what should be done to the individual in the press box


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## dr. bucket

LoyalAlum said:


> People text and drive all the time, thus the laws springing up around the country.  You can disagree all you want, but the stats are there.



texting takes your focus off the road even more than drinking. at least if your'e drunk you're more than likely looking out the front window.


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## Eleven

dr. bucket said:


> hypothetical situation here: a high school coach invites an unauthorized person to sit in the press box during a game. subsequently, this person's volatile behavior is responsible for injuring several students and adults, some of whom are taken to the hospital. this individual has no connection to the school or corporation. he is lucky that the injuries weren't more severe and the potential for a fatal injury was there.
> 
> what should be done to the coach
> what should be done to the individual in the press box



That's not all that hypothetical is it?


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## Callmedoc

Eleven said:


> That's not all that hypothetical is it?



And thus another dr. Bucket hijack had begun. Lol


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## rgd

Is this the Sycamore Pride website, or Topix website?  Time to move on....


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## Daveinth

Gave my opinion on that last year and much like this topic people didn't like my opinion of holding these coaches accountable for their actions


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## Sycamore Proud

Eleven said:


> Not sure how this in ANY way applies to the situation, however...
> Unless some are implying that RANDOM "p!ss" tests occur on weekends after midnight?



Just saying that, _in my experience_, most teachers will join a random pool if given the opportunity because they realize they are held to a higher standard than the "ordinary citizen".  I know it may be different in Vigo county, but that is accepted here.


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## Daveinth

There is no testing after pre employment  that's my problem with it


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## dr. bucket

Daveinth said:


> Gave my opinion on that last year and much like this topic people didn't like my opinion of holding these coaches accountable for their actions



hypothetically, the coach wasn't held accountable. what was his punishment? he didn't even get slapped for putting people (children) in harm's way from a volatile unpredictable personality. the volatile unpredictable personality was allowed to continue to attend games and put those around him at risk. a 250 pound weapon.


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## region rat

dr. bucket said:


> hypothetically, the coach wasn't held accountable. what was his punishment? he didn't even get slapped for putting people (children) in harm's way from a volatile unpredictable personality. the volatile unpredictable personality was allowed to continue to attend games and put those around him at risk. a 250 pound weapon.



If you live in Vigo County elect a school board who thinks like you about this matter and the rules and rule violations will change.  Do the same if you live in another county.


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## Gotta Hav

Daveinth said:


> In any job if you bring embarrassment to the place of business you work for you get fired.



My boss at work got arrested for Carrying a Handgun without a Permit, and was also charged wit two DWI's. One of the charges was a Felony.  We both work for one of the nations largest Defense Contractors.    We both need to maintain Secret Security clearances.    He was found Guilty on all charges.   He's still there today, and will be tomorrow.


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## dr. bucket

long gone said:


> If you live in Vigo County elect a school board who thinks like you about this matter and the rules and rule violations will change.  Do the same if you live in another county.



tried to. but conflicts of interest and political power seem to go hand in hand


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## dr. bucket

Gotta Hav said:


> My boss at work got arrested for Carrying a Handgun without a Permit, and was also charged wit two DWI's. One of the charges was a Felony.  We both work for one of the nations largest Defense Contractors.    We both need to maintain Secret Security clearances.    He was found Guilty on all charges.   He's still there today, and will be tomorrow.



hopefully he's at least been disarmed


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## dr. bucket

rgd said:


> Is this the Sycamore Pride website, or Topix website?  Time to move on....



community clubhouse.

just asking a question to see how things are handled differntly for different parts of town


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## Gotta Hav

dr. bucket said:


> hopefully he's at least been disarmed



One would think so.     

The dumb thing on his part was..........he had a Indiana CCW, but had let it expired.  Which is the same as not having one....thus the Carrying w/o a permit Charge.


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## region rat

He should have been fired.


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## Gotta Hav

rgd said:


> Is this the Sycamore Pride website, or Topix website?  Time to move on....



yo...this topic is in the Ye Old Sycamore Pub forum.....get up to speed.  

It is an open forum thread...anything and everything is open for discussion.   And if people want to beat this story, or any story to death, why do you care?

You're bustin' Sycamore Pride chops, where no chop bustin' is needed....


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## dr. bucket

Gotta Hav said:


> One would think so.
> 
> The dumb thing on his part was..........he had a Indiana CCW, but had let it expired.  Which is the same as not having one....thus the Carrying w/o a permit Charge.



in this wacky country where people still think they are playing cowboys and  indians i doubt seriously he's been disarmed.

here comes liberty valance. watch out


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