# State of Indiana B'ball recruits



## Chief_Quabachi

Twenty-nine Indiana b'ball recruits listed in the Indy Star and the schools they intend to sign with on Wednesday. 

No comments!!


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## Jason Svoboda

Fuck 'em all.


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## Bluethunder

It is what it is.


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## IndyTreeFan

I don't care who denies it, there is someone out there that is black balling us.  I would bet it is someone affiliated with AAU basketball.  It just makes no sense that we, out of the blue, lose McIntosh, and then lose the interest of all the other in state recruits we were looking at.  Screw them and the horse they rode in on...

I like our recruits better, anyway...


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## sycamorebacker

IndyTreeFan said:


> I don't care who denies it, there is someone out there that is black balling us.  I would bet it is someone affiliated with AAU basketball.  It just makes no sense that we, out of the blue, lose McIntosh, and then lose the interest of all the other in state recruits we were looking at.  Screw them and the horse they rode in on...
> 
> I like our recruits better, anyway...



It's not just us.  IU and PU are having to go out-of-state to get players also.  I think kids feel more mobile now.

And I love our recruits.  It's nice to have recruits that want to play in Indiana and want to play for us.


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## BankShot

We've been invaded by the Huns! Look how many of these kids are going out of state. They're simply using their hoop talents to market new test areas in life. We're doing the same...Texas, Canada, Florida, etc. 

I've said it before, that AAU Summer ball "coaches" are _reprogramming IHSAA kids minds_ OUTSIDE the school environment. Unfortunate, because I still value the JUDGMENT of a HS coach over any AAU fly-by nighter, as he's usually looking at the WHOLE ball of wax v. just "basketball."

The 2nd thing about AAU coaches is their own personal agendas. How many are aligned with multiple collegiate programs, often become a "package deal" along w/ a recruit, becoming an end of the bench "assistant?" NCAA needs to enact legislation prohibiting such deals.

Here's a good review on IN 2012 HS alums and their opening 2013 performances - pretty impressive:

http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/archives/4371


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## TreeTop

Even though ISU is being snubbed, I'd still like to take a look at it, anyone have a link to the page?

I searched for it, but came up empty.


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## BankShot

Here ya go:

http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/archives/4377


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## TreeTop

Gracias!


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## BankShot

No problemo, el dudo!

Recall IL State's ZEKE UPSHAW? He's got 14 pts in the 1st half v. Louisville (Hofstra):

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/id/1313813/size/condensed/


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## Bluethunder

sycamorebacker said:


> It's not just us.  IU and PU are having to go out-of-state to get players also.  I think kids feel more mobile now.
> 
> And I love our recruits.  It's nice to have recruits that want to play in Indiana and want to play for us.



Plus, it is not like we never got a look.  In many cases we were in peoples' top three or so, it just didnt work out.  It happens.  Too many good players out there to only focus on one state anyway.


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## Sycamore Proud

It is the AAU mind set that is causing problems.  In addition to issues given above, you have kids who for the majority of their hoops lives have be able to run and gun, play little defense and be the star--alley ball at it's best.  Now we tell this same kid that we want him and his skills to run a motion offense, play excellent defense, and red shirt to be good enough to play here.  It may be oversimplified, but not by much.


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## Bluethunder

Sycamore Proud said:


> It is the AAU mind set that is causing problems.  In addition to issues given above, you have kids who for the majority of their hoops lives have be able to run and gun, play little defense and be the star--alley ball at it's best.  Now we tell this same kid that we want him and his skills to run a motion offense, play excellent defense, and red shirt to be good enough to play here.  It may be oversimplified, but not by much.



While not disagreeing with your overall point, we are hardly the only program that runs a motion offense, plays good defense and has kids redshirt.  While that might be a turnoff for kids looking to go to Kansas or UNC, it won't have that big of an impact against teams at our level.


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## Bally #50

I keep coming back to Coach Mahurin's rants about blackballing ISU's recruiting because of what happened to R.J. Although I am almost 100% sure he has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of this, all this talk about it probably gives him some sense of false confidence that he actually has enough influence to have caused our recruiting woes. 

Even though I have no real clue why it "seems" to be happening, I tend to liken it to the argument of global warming. Is it a el nino recruiting year or a la nino recruiting year. In other-wards, I blame it on cyclical patterns and nothing else. I would also comment that we are not the only D-1 program out there that is low on 2014 recruiting. If the Trees catch fire this season, all these woes will likely be behind us and the heavens will open up with all-star recruits for the Trees. 

Note: I went to the dentist today and I may still have some affects from the laughing gas.


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## TreeTop

Bally #47 said:


> If the Trees catch fire this season, all these woes will likely be behind us and the heavens will open up with all-star recruits for the Trees.



Word.


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## SycamoreTree

I hope we have a great year it will turn our recruiting around, but how do we not get one in state recruit is mind blowing.


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## Bally #50

Tree, it always bothers me that ISU consistently does NOT recruit at least one Indiana All-Star. We have had so few over the years and we have been close on a number of them as well. Bottom line, we have had good or even great years when we have recruited none and if we had one, it does not always convert to great success either. So bottom line, although our egos aren't satisfied, it is not necessarily a death-nill to the program if we don't have one.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

You guys are funny. You just had 2 this past year come in from the state of Indiana. 

On the current roster we have 6 from the state of Indiana.


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## Bally #50

SSOM, I am talking all-stars. Indiana is obviously not the only place to find quality D-1 players. My comment stated simply that all-stars do NOT necessarily mean we will win. (remember, I am NOT a Hoosier).


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## TreeTop

I found a list of Indiana All Stars to play at Indiana State, three of which are on the team right now, but I realize we have zero from 2012 and 2013:

2011 – Justin Gant
2010 – Jake Kitchell
2009 -- Jake Odum
2006 - Cole Holmstrom
2005 - Adam Arnold
1998 - Djibril Kante
1997 -- Michael Menser
1993 -- Jim Cruse
1992 – Steve Hart
1991 -- Lasalle Thompson
1990 -- Juda Parks
1990 -- Marcus Johnson
1989 -- Kenny Rowan
1986 -- Eddie Bird
1985 -- Michael Smith
1984 -- Jeff Moe
1984 -- Lee Moore
1982 -- John Sherman Williams
1982 -- Myron Christian
1980 -- Kevin Thompson
1976 -- Brad Miley
1974 -- Larry Bird
1971 -- Steve Phillips
1967 – George Pillow
1965 – Howard Humes
1964 – Jerry Newsom
1964 – Steve Hollenbeck
1963 – Rich Mason
1962 – Jim Crone
1962 – Marvin Willett
1960 – Marc Denny
1957 – Howard Dardeen
1954 – Arley Andrews
1953 – Jack Wiltrout
1948 – Roger Adkins
1945 – Max Woolsey
1943 – Jim Powers
1940 – Henry Pearcy

http://www.tribstar.com/collegesports/x325990823/Norths-Justin-Gant-to-be-Indiana-All-Star


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## Bally #50

...and nobody in 12,13 or to this point, 14-- seems to drive us all crazy. Just a statistic and one, as I said above, that indicates little as to how the team will perform. I seriously thought Bryant McIntosh would break that string. We'll soon see if we can pull a rabbit out of a hat.


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## BankShot

To tie a noose around this discussion, keep in mind that both the NCAA (recent "non-touch" rules that enhance scoring) and kids TODAY desire UPTEMPO style...the opportunity to be creative AND score the full 94' length of the court. ISU's historic "1/2 court offense" and reluctance to be creative full court on the defensive end turns a lot of kids off. Add to this the sub-par ISU HISTORY of developing BIG MEN, and it's a no-brainer why so many are "heading for the hills." If Lansing can win the MVC and make a lil' post-season NCAA noise THIS season, then this trend could turn. Until then, don't expect any 30 PPG scorers to be inking on TH papyrus.

BTW...I watched most of the Louisville(H)-Hofstra game last night, and NEVER once saw Pitino throw a "zone D." On the other hand, I saw multiple mid-majors using the strategy. Draw your own conclusions...Louisville calls their style, "Boom." You can't have BOOM without the opportunity to "turn up the volume." Kids today know this...

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...l-beats-Hofstra-97-69-35-2-run?nclick_check=1


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## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> To tie a noose around this discussion, kids TODAY desire UPTEMPO style...the opportunity to be creative AND score the full 94' length of the court. ISU's historic "1/2 court offense" and reluctance to be creative full court on the defensive end turns a lot of kids off.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...l-beats-Hofstra-97-69-35-2-run?nclick_check=1



If any of this was correct it would be a valid argument for not getting Chicago players but would be a reason to get IN players.


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## BankShot

Nice to have an "expert" OPINION...thanks!:hypnotized: Nothing like the false dichotomy of Indiana (rural/slowdown) and Chicago (urban/fast pace) as an accurate assessment of playing style preference.:whiteflag: If you don't think kids prefer fast-paced hoop, then why the proliferation of AAU hoop over the years?


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## Bluethunder

BankShot said:


> If you don't think kids prefer fast-paced hoop, then why the proliferation of AAU hoop over the years?



Kids play AAU basketball for one reason, and one reason only.  It is the easiest way to get noticed.  A college coach can travel an hour across the state to watch a game that has one or two potential recruits, or he can attend an AAU game with four or five potential recruits on the same team.  You can attend an AAU tournament over a four day period and see dozens of potential recruits.  You can't do that in a high school game.  It has nothing to do with the style of play (and for the record I have seen a few AAU teams that do run a nice offense and do teach fundamentals, such as defense) and everything to do with the chance of getting noticed by a college staff.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bluethunder said:


> Kids play AAU basketball for one reason, and one reason only.  It is the easiest way to get noticed.  A college coach can travel an hour across the state to watch a game that has one or two potential recruits, or he can attend an AAU game with four or five potential recruits on the same team.  You can attend an AAU tournament over a four day period and see dozens of potential recruits.  You can't do that in a high school game.  It has nothing to do with the style of play (and for the record I have seen a few AAU teams that do run a nice offense and do teach fundamentals, such as defense) and everything to do with the chance of getting noticed by a college staff.



Yep, honestly there are more college style offenses being run in AAU over fast paced, uptempo ones. Only team I can recall that ran, ran, ran was the MBA Select team that Mack Mercer was on before he moved squads.


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## BankShot

Bluethunder said:


> Kids play AAU basketball for one reason, and one reason only.  It is the easiest way to get noticed.  A college coach can travel an hour across the state to watch a game that has one or two potential recruits, or he can attend an AAU game with four or five potential recruits on the same team.  You can attend an AAU tournament over a four day period and see dozens of potential recruits.  You can't do that in a high school game.  It has nothing to do with the style of play (and for the record I have seen a few AAU teams that do run a nice offense and do teach fundamentals, such as defense) and everything to do with the chance of getting noticed by a college staff.



So you think "college coaches" just wanna see 1/2 court offenses, and not the full spectrum of 84' pressure action? Personally, I don't see how you can isolate "style of play" when evaluating performance. For instance, it's hard to assess how a player runs the court in transition if there's never any "transition" opportunity(s), which are more often than not the result of trapping 1/2, 3/4 or F/C defenses.

BTW, given the current ISU roster, I'd bet that only two (2) players (Brown & Burnett) were gleaned from the AAU cornfields. The rest were "traditional" JC or HS-based recruiting.

It's largely because of the diversity in team "playing style(s)" that coaches must scout multiple games in order to obtain a well-rounded perception of player ability under varying conditions.


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