# Lansing Contract Situation



## Jason Svoboda

Hooper said:


> “I just dont understand how Lansing isnt on the hot seat. “
> 
> Let me help you.  Follow these instructions:
> 
> 1.  Read his contract
> 2.  Peruse the ISU athletics budget
> 3.  Do simple math.
> 
> He’s not going anywhere anytime soon unless he wants to.  Especially since some of the biggest donors to the program (and ISU athletics) are personal friends of his.



For anyone questioning Hooper on this, he's 100% right. It would cost roughly $750k to buy him out after this season, or roughly 42% of the last public basketball budget. Not happening. Seat is cooooooold... Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. The only time you could see him exit early is if he left for another job or if one of you cuts a VERY large check. Here is what remains on Lansing's contract:

2018-2019 - $247,780 - $505,160 buyout
2019-2020 - $252,580 - $257,380 buyout
2020-2021 - $257,380  

If you're a Sycamore basketball fan, your hope is that Lansing can turn the program back into a consistent winner. Otherwise, we'll likely have a new coach in 2021.


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## Jason Svoboda

Pulling this post out of the game thread it was originally put in since people keep asking about Lansing's contract here and on social media as well as people keep beating the drum wanting Lansing fired.

As of right now, 3/14/2018, it would cost $743,340 to buy out the final 3 years of Lansing's deal. If you've got 3/4 of a milly laying around and feel that strongly about it, make it happen. 

Otherwise, let it rest. No mentally stable individual would walk away from that kind of cash. You know you damn well wouldn't even if you went 0-30. If you say you would, you're A) a damned liar and/or B) a mental midget.


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## EvilleSycamore

I used to be full bore buy out Coach Losing, but the more I thought about it after this thread, leave  home there the last two years. If he chokes again this coming year then that gives ISU a full year or two to watch some of the up and coming coaches to evaluate who can turn the ship.  One I find interesting that should be making a head coaching jump just about the time  Losings contract is up is Luke Murrry. Not just because his father is Bill Murray and that in itself would put people in the seats if he is attending games like he has everywhere Luke has been, but Luke has been the go to recruiter for Mack at Xavier and now Louisville. In two more years under Mack he should be seasoned and ready for that head coaching job he can mak an impact in. He will have a great core of players that are now fresh and soph that will be jr and sr’s Then. I would be curious to see who else everyone thinks could be prime for that jump to head coach. Jason maybe you want to move this and make a separate thread.


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## IndyTreeFan

Personally, I'm hoping that GL just starts winning.  It's lots more fun...:yahoo:


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## sycamore tuff

IndyTreeFan said:


> Personally, I'm hoping that GL just starts winning.  It's lots more fun...:yahoo:



Remember the song the crowd sang after a win?


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## Bally #50

sycamore tuff said:


> Remember the song the crowd sang after a win?



“Amen, amen, amen....AMEN!”  My memories going to shit but i’ll *NEVER* forget those words. I wonder who wrote them. Epic~


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## Bally #50

IndyTreeFan said:


> Personally, I'm hoping that GL just starts winning.  It's lots more fun...:yahoo:



Hell yes, we should all be happy if that pan’s out.TREEFAN’s spot on, as I think many of you are.  We’d obviously save a crapload of money on buyout money, additional experience is totally beneficial for GL, a good corps of recruits hopefully pan out as promised, ISU is actually a POSITIVE ASSET in recruiting now and don’t forget that the field house is getting a $45M makeover. I think most of you could sleep at night with that prognosis, right???


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## bent20

Hard to save money you don't have though.


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## Bally #50

bent20 said:


> Hard to save money you don't have though.



B-20, we certainly do not have an exclusive on that LOSS of money sitting where we are in collegiate athletics in general and even our conference. I sure would rather be Indiana State than SIU right now, ISUR even, BSU or even worse yet, Evansville.


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## bent20

Bally #50 said:


> B-20, we certainly do not have an exclusive on that LOSS of money sitting where we are in collegiate athletics in general and even our conference. I sure would rather be Indiana State than SIU right now, ISUR even, BSU or even worse yet, Evansville.



How so? I'd much rather be in Illinois State's position. Do you realize their last losing season was in 2006-2007?

Bradley and Evansville are private and putting money toward the programs, so not sure they're worse off.


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## Bally #50

bent20 said:


> How so? I'd much rather be in Illinois State's position. Do you realize their last losing season was in 2006-2007?
> 
> Bradley and Evansville are private and putting money toward the programs, so not sure they're worse off.



BENT,  ISUR is on the edge of those other schools but I have several contacts in Normalville that spell out a different story in the locker room, and none of them know each other and somehow they are ALL on the same wavelength. We all know they are capable of being on top but somehow fall short regularly. I was told they may lose a couple of discontents. I may or may not be right on the ISUR statement but mark it as a maybe. Evansville will be lucky to fill their roster, period and they are a mess. BSU is Ball State, not Bradley, and BSU has some internal issues as well and a school continues to draw poorly despite having a decent record. We'll see on them. Unfortunately my crystal ball got a crack in it. I knew it was broken when it placed UMBC in the Final Four.


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## bent20

Interesting if true about Illinois State.

I read BSU as BU, sorry. Honestly, I don't think about Ball State as much as many others here do because they're not in our conference.

It does seem like we've had many internal issues of our own that seem to prevent us from winning.


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## Bally #50

bent20 said:


> Interesting if true about Illinois State.
> 
> I read BSU as BU, sorry. Honestly, I don't think about Ball State as much as many others here do because they're not in our conference.
> 
> It does seem like we've had many internal issues of our own that seem to prevent us from winning.



My guess B20, is that you are a grad from the last 15 years or so because the "younger" alums don't follow Ball State at all like we old fogey alums from the 60's and 70's. I was "born again" to HATE Ball State in 1967 when I turned BLUE. Every time I see BSU hoop highlights in the 14K capacity Worthen Arena  (they actually draw less than we do), I have a deep chuckle. I'm LOVIN' IT!

Let's face it, one of the more serious negatives with Coach Lansing's regime, is the amount of players "lost" during the summer. Sometimes it has worked out but at times, but it causes the coaches to make changes to fit available players and, at times, has made the non-conf part of the season kind of disjointed. My gut feeling is that we'll lose 1-2 more this summer as well so like you say, it could once again could, *prevent us from winning*. What an awesome way of putting it.


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## Sycamore Proud

Bally #50 said:


> My guess B20, is that you are a grad from the last 15 years or so because the "younger" alums don't follow Ball State at all like we old fogey alums from the 60's and 70's. I was "born again" to HATE Ball State in 1967 when I turned BLUE. Every time I see BSU hoop highlights in the 14K capacity Worthen Arena  (they actually draw less than we do), I have a deep chuckle. I'm LOVIN' IT!
> 
> Let's face it, one of the more serious negatives with Coach Lansing's regime, is the amount of players "lost" during the summer. Sometimes it has worked out but at times, but it causes the coaches to make changes to fit available players and, at times, has made the non-conf part of the season kind of disjointed. My gut feeling is that *we'll lose 1-2 more this summer* as well so like you say, it could once again could, *prevent us from winning*. What an awesome way of putting it.



Isn't it apparent that we have 1-2 on the bench that would be better at another level of competition?  I will not mention names or positions.  JMHO.


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## Bally #50

Sycamore Proud said:


> Isn't it apparent that we have 1-2 on the bench that would be better at another level of competition?  I will not mention names or positions.  JMHO.



No doubt, SP. Like I said earlier, some of those changes were exactly that, players leaving that were weak links on the court, Alex Etherington comes to mind. We have lost players that definitely hurt the team when they left too. It hurts when ANY player leaves because it looks bad for the team but when it counts, in November, nobody gives a hoot. Just WIN and everyone is happy. By the way, sorry I had to miss the last game and I didn't get to say bye at the end of the season. That sure was a lot of fun having those seats. You really get an idea what's happening on that bench when  you can almost smell them, they are so close. Nice sitting by you my friend.


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## Sycamore Proud

They were good seats.  My friends, who tolerate me in the best way, and I have had those seats for a few years now.  We moved down for the upper bowl.  It was good to finally meet you--I enjoyed our visits.  Not looking forward to what seating the next couple of years may bring.  We are looking forward to the new HC.  Hopefully we won't be paying a premium price for a plastic cafeteria chair.  lol  We usually make it down for a few baseball games.  Hope to see your there.  Have a good summer!


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## BrokerZ

Name me one significant player we’ve lost in the summer that had any material effect on our ability to win?  Lansing deserves a lot of criticism, but we’ve had a remarkable track record of keeping our best players.  Peek around the rest of the MVC specifically and you’ll see we are actually one of the best when it comes to retaining players (the ones we want) through graduation.


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## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Name me one significant player we’ve lost in the summer that had any material effect on our ability to win?  Lansing deserves a lot of criticism, but we’ve had a remarkable track record of keeping our best players.  Peek around the rest of the MVC specifically and you’ll see we are actually one of the best when it comes to retaining players (the ones we want) through graduation.



Brant Leitnaker


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## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Brant Leitnaker



I stand corrected.


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## bluestreak

Jason Svoboda said:


> Brant Leitnaker



Boda, Leitnaker is a bad example. He was a McKenna recruit and here for four injury plagued years. Don't think he played anywhere else.


"I want to thank everybody especially coach McKenna and coach Lansing for keeping me around since I wasn't recruited by them out of high school and they gave me the opportunity to play three years despite my injury situation. I want them to know that I really appreciate that," Leitnaker said. "I just don't feel like I can continue to battle my injuries for another year and I am on track to graduate so I feel like it is in my best interests to move on from basketball."


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## Jason Svoboda

bluestreak said:


> Boda, Leitnaker is a bad example. He was a McKenna recruit and here for four injury plagued years. Don't think he played anywhere else.
> 
> 
> "I want to thank everybody especially coach McKenna and coach Lansing for keeping me around since I wasn't recruited by them out of high school and they gave me the opportunity to play three years despite my injury situation. I want them to know that I really appreciate that," Leitnaker said. "I just don't feel like I can continue to battle my injuries for another year and I am on track to graduate so I feel like it is in my best interests to move on from basketball."








Remember the longest time we used him as the answer for a ton of jokes. Before him it was Michael Kernan.


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## bluestreak

LOL. Oh damn. Should have known better. Thanks for being gentle Boda.


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## Southgrad07

BrokerZ said:


> Name me one significant player we’ve lost in the summer that had any material effect on our ability to win?  Lansing deserves a lot of criticism, but we’ve had a remarkable track record of keeping our best players.  Peek around the rest of the MVC specifically and you’ll see we are actually one of the best when it comes to retaining players (the ones we want) through graduation.



Agree 100% compared to our peers. We have lost one guy that was a big blow..Losing RJ for his SR year hurt.. And that pains me to say with his dad being the royal douche that he is.  We replaced him with Demetrius Moore and missed his frontcourt production..Running like he had a corn cob up his ass and all, we missed him on that team.


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## BrokerZ

Southgrad07 said:


> Agree 100% compared to our peers. We have lost one guy that was a big blow..Losing RJ for his SR year hurt.. And that pains me to say with his dad being the royal douche that he is.  We replaced him with Demetrius Moore and missed his frontcourt production..Running like he had a corn cob up his ass and all, we missed him on that team.



RJ is the only one I could really consider as a big loss, as well.  I thought about mentioning him as the one exception, but I didn’t feel like he left because of Lansing. Maybe he ultimately did leave because he didn’t get along with Coach, but he at least had a good excuse - he wanted to go play with his brother.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

BrokerZ said:


> RJ is the only one I could really consider as a big loss, as well.  I thought about mentioning him as the one exception, but I didn’t feel like he left because of Lansing. Maybe he ultimately did leave because he didn’t get along with Coach, but he at least had a good excuse - he wanted to go play with his brother.



I guess you could say a combination of Lansing and his brother.  The way I understand his reason for leaving was Lansing wouldn’t give his brother a scholarship.


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## meistro

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> I guess you could say a combination of Lansing and his brother.  The way I understand his reason for leaving was Lansing wouldn’t give his brother a scholarship.



Mcwhorter left early and I really liked him. I don’t think that was GL’s fault though. Too many urine problems, I believe.


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## sdjessie

meistro said:


> Mcwhorter left early and I really liked him. I don’t think that was GL’s fault though. Too many urine problems, I believe.



Laquarious Paige? Was starting when we had a great start to a season


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## TreeTop

sdjessie said:


> Laquarious Paige? Was starting when we had a great start to a season



Steve McWhorter.  Played in our NCAA game in 2011.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/steve-mcwhorter-1.html


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## BrokerZ

sdjessie said:


> Laquarious Paige? Was starting when we had a great start to a season



Insert gif of guy-looking-confused-and-wants-to-say-something-but-holds-back-because-he-can't-find-the-right-combination-of-words


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## Jason Svoboda

First post updated.


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## 3ColumnsOf11

Someone feel free to correct me, but I’m pretty sure with most of these buyouts there are two things that come into play:

1: If (or when; sometimes the coach is contractually obligated to seek employment) the coach lands a new gig somewhere, the buyout is offset by the new contract at the new school, lowering the buyout considerably. 

B: The buyout isn’t one large game-show check, but typically paid out over the course of a specified amount of time. 

If I’m correct (I may not be, someone can go through the contract if that’s easily available) it’s not a matter of money, it’s a matter of doing it and having a plan in place. Might not be as much of a longshot as some think.


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## Buckhorn

Here's the Contract:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1344006-greg-lansing-contract.html


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## bigsportsfan

https://twitter.com/tribstar/status/1104155760248979457?s=21


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## TreeTop

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/loc...cle_38a1015d-27df-5acd-a456-61dc89c26fc9.html


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## Prisonmate

Fwiw, Evansville fired Marty Simmons March 13 last year - but the season was also a week earlier. So we'll probably find out one way or another next week.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

Prisonmate said:


> Fwiw, Evansville fired Marty Simmons March 13 last year - but the season was also a week earlier. So we'll probably find out one way or another next week.



Greg isn’t going anywhere this year. He’s already met with Clink.  Couple things...we simply can’t afford to pay him $500,000 to leave and then pay a new coach $250,000 plus, he also has a very experienced team coming back then the addition of Cobie Barnes and Cam Bacote.  I’m all for criticizing his game plan if you don’t agree with it, but it’s guaranteed he will be back for the ‘19-‘20 season.


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## meistro

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Greg isn’t going anywhere this year. He’s already met with Clink.  Couple things...we simply can’t afford to pay him $500,000 to leave and then pay a new coach $250,000 plus, he also has a very experienced team coming back then the addition of Cobie Barnes and Cam Bacote.  I’m all for criticizing his game plan if you don’t agree with it, but it’s guaranteed he will be back for the ‘19-‘20 season.



I believe you’re correct. Evidence of this is that they’re now advertising his basketball camp. As you mentioned, we do have some good pieces coming back, as well as a good recruiting class coming in. This could make for some tough decisions to be made if this team were to have some success next year. Say we win 20 games and finish in the top half of conference. GL would have only 1 year left on his contract. Would Clink extend it based on one decent season out of 6? If he doesn’t, that would send a bad signal to potential recruits. If money wasn’t an issue, this would have been the time to make a change. Gonna be some tough decisions that will need to be made.


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## bent20

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Greg isn’t going anywhere this year. He’s already met with Clink.  Couple things...we simply can’t afford to pay him $500,000 to leave and then pay a new coach $250,000 plus, he also has a very experienced team coming back then the addition of Cobie Barnes and Cam Bacote.  I’m all for criticizing his game plan if you don’t agree with it, but it’s guaranteed he will be back for the ‘19-‘20 season.



If you go back and look at what happened with Waltman, he wasn't retained after his contract expired. It wasn't until about February of that year that a decision was made not to re-sign him, then it leaked out early via a Board of Trustees meeting, I believe (I read the Trib article about it not long ago, going by memory) and Waltman expressed his frustration as the team still had Arch Madness to get through.

So, I wouldn't expect anything to happen in terms of a decision with Lansing until February/March of 2021, if ISU repeats history, which when it comes to athletics they often do. But maybe Clinkscales won't be that patient and things will go down differently. I expect two more seasons of equally frustrating performances. The only way I can see that changing is if we get some stud recruits and guys that don't take that much coaching.


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## HOOPSFAN

Very disappointing to have nothing to look forward to for the next basketball season. The ransom issue is understandable but Lansing will not be a better coach next year & if he had 3-4 Romeo's coming in it makes no difference if he can't make a team of them and he has not shown any ability to do that for the last few years. It won't be better until he is gone. I would not give any consideration next time around whatever his record might be next year due to the downhill slide of the product especially the last 4 years. I still believe there will be defections of a negative nature before next season rolls out.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

This is pretty simple... 

Anything short of an NCAA or NIT in the next two years Lansing is not going to get extended. 

Clink is going to want to bring is own guy in - he's got to be itching to bring someone in and put his stamp on our marquee program. He's a D1 athletic director - making a good hire and potentially elevating our hoops program is how you build a resume! I'm sure it's killing him knowing that Lansing has coached his way out of this contract but the few donors we do have are more loyal to Lansing than they are the University. Even if that wasn't the case we don't have the money to bounce him if he wanted to and you better believe he wants to (at least that's my take). 

I don't think any coach that has lost as much as Lansing has lost the last several years would get an extension after one winning season - to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what would make anyone think he's going to be able to coach his way out of this? He's been under the same pressure for multiple seasons now and the results have been pretty consistent - a lot of blow out losses! We got beat by double digits a lot this year by (I left out anything less than 14 points): *22, 22, 29, 15, 14, 15, 35, 14, 20 and 15* the previous year we had losses of *14, 19, 16 and 18.* This is not a team that is headed in the right direction... This was not a team that was improved at all from his previous shitty teams. This is a team that needs a HUGE amount of help!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

HOOPSFAN said:


> Very disappointing to have nothing to look forward to for the next basketball season. The ransom issue is understandable but Lansing will not be a better coach next year & if he had 3-4 Romeo's coming in it makes no difference if he can't make a team of them and he has not shown any ability to do that for the last few years. It won't be better until he is gone. I would not give any consideration next time around whatever his record might be next year due to the downhill slide of the product especially the last 4 years. I still believe there will be defections of a negative nature before next season rolls out.



Romeo is a great example here after his team got bounced in the first round of the B10 tournament... I'm not sure 3-4 Romeo's anywhere is going to make that big of a difference. If the kid doesn't want to play 40 minutes all out then why would we put any of that at the feet of a college basketball coach?? Unbelievable.


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## TreeTop

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> This is pretty simple...
> 
> Anything short of an NCAA or NIT in the next two years Lansing is not going to get extended.
> 
> Clink is going to want to bring is own guy in - he's got to be itching to bring someone in and put his stamp on our marquee program. He's a D1 athletic director - making a good hire and potentially elevating our hoops program is how you build a resume! I'm sure it's killing him knowing that Lansing has coached his way out of this contract but the few donors we do have are more loyal to Lansing than they are the University. Even if that wasn't the case we don't have the money to bounce him if he wanted to and you better believe he wants to (at least that's my take).
> 
> I don't think any coach that has lost as much as Lansing has lost the last several years would get an extension after one winning season - to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what would make anyone think he's going to be able to coach his way out of this? He's been under the same pressure for multiple seasons now and the results have been pretty consistent - a lot of blow out losses! We got beat by double digits a lot this year by (I left out anything less than 14 points): *22, 22, 29, 15, 14, 15, 35, 14, 20 and 15* the previous year we had losses of *14, 19, 16 and 18.* This is not a team that is headed in the right direction... This was not a team that was improved at all from his previous shitty teams. This is a team that needs a HUGE amount of help!



I haven't even read your post yet, just glad you're posting again!

(did I just say that?)


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## 4Q_iu

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> This is pretty simple...
> 
> Anything short of an NCAA or NIT in the next two years Lansing is not going to get extended.
> 
> Clink is going to want to bring is own guy in - he's got to be itching to bring someone in and put his stamp on our marquee program. He's a D1 athletic director - making a good hire and potentially elevating our hoops program is how you build a resume! I'm sure it's killing him knowing that Lansing has coached his way out of this contract but the few donors we do have are more loyal to Lansing than they are the University. Even if that wasn't the case we don't have the money to bounce him if he wanted to and you better believe he wants to (at least that's my take).
> 
> I don't think any coach that has lost as much as Lansing has lost the last several years would get an extension after one winning season - to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what would make anyone think he's going to be able to coach his way out of this? He's been under the same pressure for multiple seasons now and the results have been pretty consistent - a lot of blow out losses! We got beat by double digits a lot this year by (I left out anything less than 14 points): *22, 22, 29, 15, 14, 15, 35, 14, 20 and 15* the previous year we had losses of *14, 19, 16 and 18.* This is not a team that is headed in the right direction... This was not a team that was improved at all from his previous shitty teams. This is a team that needs a HUGE amount of help!





what are your thoughts on a scenario where we win our 3 "close" Valley losses (@ No. Iowa, home vs. Drake, @ Missouri St)

that puts us at 18-13, 10-8 (T-3d) in conf...   we're seed 4th, adv to Saturday's semi-s but lose (again) to Loyola...

Finish 19 - 14, does that get us another road NIT game?  If so, what does Clink do now?

stand pat?, give a 1-yr extension?


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## Coach '72

I have an out-of-the box solution. I've got to think how I want to word this before you laugh me out the door. Will continue - I have some basketball to watch. Would like to share though. Creative. Go blue.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

4Q_iu said:


> what are your thoughts on a scenario where we win our 3 "close" Valley losses (@ No. Iowa, home vs. Drake, @ Missouri St)
> 
> that puts us at 18-13, 10-8 (T-3d) in conf...   we're seed 4th, adv to Saturday's semi-s but lose (again) to Loyola...
> 
> Finish 19 - 14, does that get us another road NIT game?  If so, what does Clink do now?
> 
> stand pat?, give a 1-yr extension?



I mean - we could sit here and throw out countless scenarios right?? Even if we flipped those 3 "close" losses into wins the dude got the breaks beat off him 10 times and in 5 of those 10 beatings we got beat by 20 or more. I don't think 18-13/10-8 would have got us an NIT game anyway - especially not the way we went about it in any given scenario. Even if it had got us an invite - I don't think he would have got extended at that point. 

I will double down again and restate that I don't see him getting extended regardless of what he does next season (again short of an NCAA or NIT). I'm not quite sure but I think he's on a lame duck contract and he needs an NCAA tourney birth in the next 2 years to salvage his head coaching career here or anywhere else. That will prove to be pretty hard to come by... 

Next year is a new year - his team is going to have to play more consistent in winning and defeat. He's going to need a similarly strong recruiting class to replace Barnes, Kessinger and Williams - not because those players have or haven't been important. Because having a strong incoming class makes it that much harder to let a coach go. You all have discussed it - not extending a coach or a coach being in the hot seat can make recruiting that much more difficult.


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## meistro

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I mean - we could sit here and throw out countless scenarios right?? Even if we flipped those 3 "close" losses into wins the dude got the breaks beat off him 10 times and in 5 of those 10 beatings we got beat by 20 or more. I don't think 18-13/10-8 would have got us an NIT game anyway - especially not the way we went about it in any given scenario. Even if it had got us an invite - I don't think he would have got extended at that point.
> 
> I will double down again and restate that I don't see him getting extended regardless of what he does next season (again short of an NCAA or NIT). I'm not quite sure but I think he's on a lame duck contract and he needs an NCAA tourney birth in the next 2 years to salvage his head coaching career here or anywhere else. That will prove to be pretty hard to come by...
> 
> Next year is a new year - his team is going to have to play more consistent in winning and defeat. He's going to need a similarly strong recruiting class to replace Barnes, Kessinger and Williams - not because those players have or haven't been important. Because having a strong incoming class makes it that much harder to let a coach go. You all have discussed it - not extending a coach or a coach being in the hot seat can make recruiting that much more difficult.



That last sentence is spot on and why if a change was gonna be made, it should have been this year. We all know why it wasn't. I don't envy Clink's job at all. Lot's of tough decisions to be made.


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## 4Q_iu

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I mean - we could sit here and throw out countless scenarios right?? Even if we flipped those 3 "close" losses into wins the dude got the breaks beat off him 10 times and in 5 of those 10 beatings we got beat by 20 or more. I don't think 18-13/10-8 would have got us an NIT game anyway - especially not the way we went about it in any given scenario. Even if it had got us an invite - I don't think he would have got extended at that point.
> 
> I will double down again and restate that I don't see him getting extended regardless of what he does next season (again short of an NCAA or NIT). I'm not quite sure but I think he's on a lame duck contract and he needs an NCAA tourney birth in the next 2 years to salvage his head coaching career here or anywhere else. That will prove to be pretty hard to come by...
> 
> Next year is a new year - his team is going to have to play more consistent in winning and defeat. He's going to need a similarly strong recruiting class to replace Barnes, Kessinger and Williams - not because those players have or haven't been important. Because having a strong incoming class makes it that much harder to let a coach go. You all have discussed it - not extending a coach or a coach being in the hot seat can make recruiting that much more difficult.




Agree -- 95% of all sports talk is what-iffing every game to death, as you mentioned the 10 beat-downs we received, I'll mention the 6 beat-downs we administered *17, 29, 17, 23, 23, 17*

There wasn't much progress this year, a slight uptick in wins...  a lot of marking time, vice progress

I can see an NCAA bid next season getting HC GL a year extension... if we end up in the NIT, we'll need to advance in order for him to get an extension


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## Buckhorn

Has he ever won a post-season game as ISU HC?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Buckhorn said:


> Has he ever won a post-season game as ISU HC?



Nope... 

Waltman beat Oklahoma - did he beat anyone else?? 

Dillard before that?? Nope?? My lifetime is covered - historic program we got here!

The post season is so diluted - the only thing that really matters is NCAA tourney wins. Fans (us) get so caught up in the other post season tournament for no other reason than something to talk about. 

He doesn’t need to win in the NCAA Tournament at this point - making it alone moves the needle. The problem is - he didn’t really recruit the last team he got to the tournament and he certainly didn’t do anything with the program after he made it... In other words - enjoy the roller coaster!


----------



## Hooper

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Nope...
> 
> Waltman beat Oklahoma - did he beat anyone else??
> 
> Dillard before that?? Nope?? My lifetime is covered - historic program we got here!
> 
> The post season is so diluted - the only thing that really matters is NCAA tourney wins. Fans (us) get so caught up in the other post season tournament for no other reason than something to talk about.
> 
> He doesn’t need to win in the NCAA Tournament at this point - making it alone moves the needle. The problem is - he didn’t really recruit the last team he got to the tournament and he certainly didn’t do anything with the program after he made it... In other words - enjoy the roller coaster!



Not sure what you mean.  He recruited the entire 2011 team as a Waltman and McKenna assistant.  And he went to the post season for 3 years after that.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Hooper said:


> Not sure what you mean.  He recruited the entire 2011 team as a Waltman and McKenna assistant.  And he went to the post season for 3 years after that.



It was probably inaccurate to say “he didn’t really recruit...” those guys. I guess my point was that those recruits that he coached to the tournament are credited recruiting classes to McKenna & Waltman.


----------



## Tbac3

Could use a couple of dogs in this program. Might have to recruit from some areas that haven't been recruited from previously.


----------



## swsycamore

Try Indiana.  Look at the number of Indiana kids that are playing for teams in the post season tourneys.  They all must know something.


----------



## Southgrad07

swsycamore said:


> Try Indiana.  Look at the number of Indiana kids that are playing for teams in the post season tourneys.  They all must know something.



You mean like Ball State has??...They had 8 guys and damn near their entire core that played from Indiana...And they were under .500...Same with Miami of Ohio..We should recruit Indiana heavily and actually the last few years we have landed our fair share..But lets not act like we have ignored Indiana and that is why we have struggled. And if you want to point to the guys like Kyle Guy and Aaron Henry who are from Indiana playing in the Final Four?? We offered both of those guys early in their HS careers and they blew up...Not going to beat Lansing up over that..


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> You mean like Ball State has??...They had 8 guys and damn near their entire core that played from Indiana...And they were under .500...Same with Miami of Ohio..We should recruit Indiana heavily and actually the last few years we have landed our fair share..But lets not act like we have ignored Indiana and that is why we have struggled. And if you want to point to the guys like Kyle Guy and Aaron Henry who are from Indiana playing in the Final Four?? We offered both of those guys early in their HS careers and they blew up...Not going to beat Lansing up over that..



Legit Lansing gripes - not that doesn't recruit Indiana kids shit... This is super arm chair quarterbacky and probably not all 100% accurate but what are some things that Lansing and his recent shitty teams truely lack: 

- He's super predictable even when it doesn't make sense. That shit with throwing it in the paint to start every game this year was ridiculous and predictable at the same time. Our constant usage of the same poor ass out of bounds play every time under our own basket was equally dumb. Maybe even more idiotic is the fact that he never tried to run a wrinkle off his own predictability... Like the other teams know what your doing why not try and show the same look with an entirely different plan/play in mind?? Seems to obvious - maybe our guys just never executed but I doubt it. 

- Inconsistent accountability. Lansing has long found certain players that he will just ride and ride and ride - he will take them to task in the post game, take them to task in practice, take them to task in the game. Then others he's ride-or-die with to a fault. Will go in the post game and always talk about how hard they play, how much time they put in, how he will go to war with them - as if all of those things disqualify them from receiving the same level of criticism as everyone else. You look at some of the elite coaches in this game and they aint playing favorites regardless of the outcome. I am shocked at what he lets Jordan Barnes get away with. I am shocked that he let Devonte Brown kick the basketball around game after game. He has certain guys that he will just not hold accountable the way he should. 

- Lack of attention to detail. His teams have not done the little things for many years now. I think some of this falls on his assistant coaches - look you can't stop practice every two seconds to point out all the little things that the kids are doing wrong. But you can sure as shit tell someone to get on the line and run all day if they can't do the little things. I think the mistakes his teams have made in practice have gone uncorrected for years and they carry over to the game. Lansing thinks it's "lack of toughness" he will tell you as much in the post-game after we get our butt beat - it aint lack of toughness. It's lack of attention to detail and the next thing. 

- He's not recruiting hard-workers/leaders/winners in that order. He's been in on a lot of the right kids as has been pointed about above and just not landed them. But the kids he has ended up with are not all hard-working/leaders/winners. You get a little mix of one or two with certain guys but rarely if every all I think this team has just really lacked the correct makeup of kids. Leadership has been lacking for years - most of the real leadership that takes place doesn't happen in the 40 minutes of game when everyone is watching - hell that is when it should be easy to lead and we don't even get that. The real leadership takes place off the floor or in practice.


----------



## meistro

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Legit Lansing gripes - not that doesn't recruit Indiana kids shit... This is super arm chair quarterbacky and probably not all 100% accurate but what are some things that Lansing and his recent shitty teams truly lack:
> 
> - He's super predictable even when it doesn't make sense. That shit with throwing it in the paint to start every game this year was ridiculous and predictable at the same time. Our constant usage of the same poor ass out of bounds play every time under our own basket was equally dumb. Maybe even more idiotic is the fact that he never tried to run a wrinkle off his own predictability... Like the other teams know what your doing why not try and show the same look with an entirely different plan/play in mind?? Seems to obvious - maybe our guys just never executed but I doubt it.
> 
> - Inconsistent accountability. Lansing has long found certain plays that he will just ride and ride and ride - he will take them to task in the post game, take them to task in practice, take them to task in the game. Then others he's ride-or-die with to a fault. Will go in the post game and always talk about how hard they play, how much time they put in, how he will go to war with them - as if all of those things disqualify them from receiving the same level of criticism as everyone else. You look at some of the elite coaches in this game and they aint playing favorites regardless of the outcome. I am shocked at what he lets Jordan Barnes get away with. I am shocked that he let Devonte Brown kick the basketball around game after game. He has certain guys that he will just not hold accountable the way he should.
> 
> - Lack of attention to detail. His teams have not done the little things for many years now. I think some of this falls on his assistant coaches - look you can't stop practice every two seconds to point out all the little things that the kids are doing wrong. But you can sure as shit tell someone to get on the line and run all day if they can't do the little things. I think the mistakes his teams have made in practice have gone uncorrected for years and they carry over to the game. Lansing thinks it's "lack of toughness" he will tell you as much in the post-game after we get our butt beat - it aint lack of toughness. It's lack of attention to detail and the next thing.
> 
> - He's not recruiting hard-workers/leaders/winners in that order. He's been in on a lot of the right kids as has been pointed about above and just not landed them. But the kids he has ended up with are not all hard-working/leaders/winners. You get a little mix of one or two with certain guys but rarely if every all I think this team has just really lacked the correct makeup of kids. Leadership has been lacking for years - most of the real leadership that takes place doesn't happen in the 40 minutes of game when everyone is watching - hell that is when it should be easy to lead and we don't even get that. The real leadership takes place off the floor or in practice.



I’ll probably get in trouble by some on here for agreeing with you most the time. But, you’re pretty much dead on with this assessment.


----------



## bent20

Speaking of Waltman, what fascinates me is how closely Waltman and Lansing's careers at ISU mirror one another. Both replaced short term coaches who got the program back on the right track (even if they didn't stick around long enough to get credit for the tournament appearances). Both had immediate success and then several years of losing seasons.


----------



## rapala

RW was plaques with health problems in his later years "


----------



## Bluethunder

rapala said:


> RW was plaques with health problems in his later years "



I don’t think the wheels would have fallen off so bad if Waltman hasn’t been fighting cancer


----------



## 4Q_iu

OK, Sports Fans...

   What does Lansing have to accomplish the rest of this season and next to get another contract extension?

   A winning record is a given, so...

   Win 20+ and make another post-season?
   Win 25+, a Valley title or ArchMadness title and make the NCAA?
   to quote Jake Taylor...  "Win the Whole F__king thing..."


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Win a road game. Just one.


----------



## 4Q_iu

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Win a road game. Just one.




This season?

won 2 on a neutral court, won 2 (so far) on the road


----------



## 4Q_iu

4Q_iu said:


> This season?
> 
> won 2 on a neutral court, won 2 (so far) on the road




Team went 5-11 in road games; 3-6 in the Valley


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> Team went 5-11 in road games; 3-6 in the Valley



one hell of a coach ...... what more can you want ...... yee of low expectations?


----------



## TreeTop

For whatever it is (or is not) worth, it appears that Lansing was paid $319,767.45 in 2019.  I don't know if this includes things like extra paid for radio show and other incentives....or if it's just his base pay.





__





						Reports: Gateway
					






					gateway.ifionline.org


----------



## 4Q_iu

that's most likely his total compensation package; salary, radio/media appearances and any incentives   

again, drives home that ISU will let his contract run before a retention decision is made; lotta $$ to pay if he's fired early


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

4Q_iu said:


> that's most likely his total compensation package; salary, radio/media appearances and any incentives
> 
> again, drives home that ISU will let his contract run before a retention decision is made; lotta $$ to pay if he's fired early



Are you suggesting that he's coaching on the last year of his contract this coming season?? 

I don't think that is the case... I would say he's already been granted a 1-3 year extension meaning he will be here for the next 2-4 years with his current year left. My guess is the only reason for that not being made public at this point is this COVID situation - just not good timing to release that information. 

The only thing that would make me hesitate to believe that would be the multiple 5th year guys. For two reasons - I've got to win THIS YEAR to keep my job and I don't want to get or am struggling to get commitments from kids who would be here beyond next seasons because of his contract situation. 

I agree that ISU would let his contract run out before they fired him - because as we've said for 4 years now they can't afford to fire him (for multiple reasons not just his contract). I think he earned a short extension last year - likely looking at 2 year extension.


----------



## 4Q_iu

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Are you suggesting that he's coaching on the last year of his contract this coming season??
> 
> I don't think that is the case... I would say he's already been granted a 1-3 year extension meaning he will be here for the next 2-4 years with his current year left. My guess is the only reason for that not being made public at this point is this COVID situation - just not good timing to release that information.
> 
> The only thing that would make me hesitate to believe that would be the multiple 5th year guys. For two reasons - I've got to win THIS YEAR to keep my job and I don't want to get or am struggling to get commitments from kids who would be here beyond next seasons because of his contract situation.
> 
> I agree that ISU would let his contract run out before they fired him - because as we've said for 4 years now they can't afford to fire him (for multiple reasons not just his contract). I think he earned a short extension last year - likely looking at 2 year extension.



As I've not found a record of his contract being extended; yes, I'm suggesting that he is in fact entering his last year under contract.

I think any role that the COVID_19 pandemic has played is it's "ability" in NOT allowing the ISU leadership to gather in a room and discuss

Time will tell if he has been extended


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

4Q_iu said:


> As I've not found a record of his contract being extended; yes, I'm suggesting that he is in fact entering his last year under contract.
> 
> I think any role that the COVID_19 pandemic has played is it's "ability" in NOT allowing the ISU leadership to gather in a room and discuss
> 
> Time will tell if he has been extended



Nothing is on public record... That doesn't mean a decision hasn't been made?? He may be entering his last year as far as the general public is concerned as of right now.

I'm going with he's getting extended and it will be public record sooner rather than later.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Agree -- a decision may have been made; if it has, so be it.

I'm not going to worry if they have or have not; if he's been extended, I'm OK with that decision

if no decision has been made, I'm OK with that decision

This is not a life or death issue -- we've got far, FAR more of those at them moment


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

4Q_iu said:


> Agree -- a decision may have been made; if it has, so be it.
> 
> I'm not going to worry if they have or have not; if he's been extended, I'm OK with that decision
> 
> if no decision has been made, I'm OK with that decision
> 
> This is not a life or death issue -- we've got far, FAR more of those at them moment



I understand that - which is why I don't think they've released any information. I'd probably have been less shocked if they fired him as I would be if they let him coach with only a year left on his contract. That would be a pretty interesting scenerio/enviorment for him and his players to be in... Which is why I figured I'd interject with my thoughts.


----------



## child

I just hope they get to keep him at a reasonable price. He earned it in 2019 and has been getting better players. My concern is that we have an effective PG next year.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

child said:


> I just hope they get to keep him at a reasonable price. He earned it in 2019 and has been getting better players. My concern is that we have an effective PG next year.



What is a reasonable price to you? If we're talking about getting the position in line with the conference, he needs a pay raise.


----------



## child

I get the impression that GL will accept a home town discount. If not bye-bye.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

child said:


> I get the impression that GL will accept a home town discount. If not bye-bye.



He shouldn't and not a single fan should want him to. That sets the position back. The goal should always be to move the program forward and the sooner our coaching position is near the league average, the better.


----------



## child

I agree to some extent, but they just don't have the money. I wish they did, it will be interesting to see that happens. If he has another winning season it would be hard to lose him. I hope he says we will see about the $$$'s. Hay why didn't that Howard play last year?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Let him walk


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

This is great - since we've got some new people commenting and visiting now is probably a great time for me to simply and reiterate all of this one last time!! If you are any mid major college basketball / athletic program winning isn't the number one standard anymore... A variety of reasons why this isn't the #1 standard as much as all of us sports lovers wish life was that simple I'm sorry to be the one to inform you it's just not that way anymore.

*In no certain order here a list of things that matter just as much if not more than winning:*

- Are you setting a good example to your student athletes.

- Are you behaving like a professional and abiding by all compliance regulations?

- Are you activily engaged with alums? Are you well respected by them? Do they donate to your program?

- Are your athletes graduating? Are they staying eligable? Are they causing trouble off the court? Are they invovled in the community?

- Are you well respected by other coaches around the league and country? Do you have a good repuation among officials?

- Have you embraced / suported the university and the city in other aspects?

*THEN once you check all those boxes you can start to look at overall perforamce/Winning/Losing keeping in mind the following things:*

- How do our facilities compare to those schools were competing and recruiting against?

- What is our attendance look like compared to other like mid major programs?

- What does our entire athletic and then program specific budget look like compared to other like mid major programs?

- What do our coahces saleries look like compared to other like mid major programs?

- What does our alumni/donor support look like program to program and compared to other like mid major programs? Furthermore, is the lack of support the coaches fault or do we have other underlying factors that are at play?

*AND finally after all of that is taken into consideration!*

- You can talk about __________ coaches record. And when we start focusing on Indiana State and Greg Lansing specifically. They haven't had the money to buy him out... So if you're frustrated with the job Greg Lansing has done at Indiana State perhaps you should be frustrated with Indiana State as well and our inability to have any money to be able to have flexability - if you don't have the same level of frustration toward Indiana State then you're opinion is likely jaded in the first place.

Let's assume it's not and you're equally frustrated at all parties invovled - fine some people are! If you break down the #'s as they've been broken down in many threads over the last 24 months the #'s aren't that bad if you compare them to the history of the program - he's one of the most sucesfull basketball coaches we've ever had. If you ask almost ever reaonsable person on this forum they would tell you that Greg Lansing and his team had to win last year that anything outside of a top 3 finish would have probably been the end - well guess what he finished in the top 3 with two freshman playing PF and C.

It's as simple as that - he's our coach and he's our coach for a lot of other reasons besides what happens from November-March every year. The conclusion is this - all of the 10-20 people that want Lansing fired or non-renewed (at this point) are the same people who have always hated the man. They're like the same 10-20 people that will hate the next loser we hire and not because they're bad fans or bad people... The logic is just flawed - winning in mid-major college basketball is not all that matters. Winning is fun -being competitive is important - it's not the only thing though!


----------



## 4Q_iu

Well Said SycamoreState  Well Said


----------



## region rat

Jason Svoboda said:


> He shouldn't and not a single fan should want him to. That sets the position back. The goal should always be to move the program forward and the sooner our coaching position is near the league average, the better.



Not only some sort of raise or even the raise discount, Lansing knows the economic/money problems he has.  There should be better pay for the assistants, larger budget to recruit etc and the numerous items mentioned by SOM today.  Coach has done a better than average job and I will restate an exceptional one with the constraints he has.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

If we don't have a season this winter do you all think Lansing will be brought back for the 2021-22 season? My guess would be yes, but I'm not sure if this winter would be considered a season with his contract. I would assume yes if he is still getting paid.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

No. Absolutely not and it will not be pretty.


----------



## TreeTop

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> No. Absolutely not and it will not be pretty.



Why are you so sure he wouldn't be brought back (if there's no 2020-2021 season)?

But I agree that if he isn't brought back, things would go way south way fast, with lots of players transferring.


----------



## treeman

I’m interested to see how college athletics handle contracts/transfers/bonuses/recruiting in general during this time.

but tothe question. I thinkLansing should be brought back if there is no season this upcoming year. Will he? I don’t know. Unless you have an absolute homerun hire (which there might be given the situation everyone is in) Lansing has done enough to warrant another season to earn the position.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

TreeTop said:


> Why are you so sure he wouldn't be brought back (if there's no 2020-2021 season)?
> 
> But I agree that if he isn't brought back, things would go way south way fast, with lots of players transferring.



I'm not sure of anything that happens at Indiana State or in this world anymore.

But if you look - at how his contract situation / extension - non extension has played out then that should tell us about all we need to know... Our AD clearly has other ideas and wants to take this in a different direction. 

What a better way for him to get out from under Lansing than for this season to not be played at all. Because I can tell you - if they play this season my guess is Lansing likes what he has to work with. My guess is that he would be a pretty tough man to "fire" / "non-renew" if we were to have a top 3 Mo Val finish and any sort of run in STL.  

And the reason I think this will be ugly is that I don't imagine that Lansing wants to leave TH and I know that a lot of his friends/alums/donors don't want him gone - so it will be a very divided situation. I think a lot of it probably depends on contract/legal jargon that I don't understand... If they don't have a season does that still count as a year? I am not sure about any of that and I'm sure that will be part of the consideration.


----------



## Daveinth

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I'm not sure of anything that happens at Indiana State or in this world anymore.
> 
> But if you look - at how his contract situation / extension - non extension has played out then that should tell us about all we need to know... Our AD clearly has other ideas and wants to take this in a different direction.
> 
> What a better way for him to get out from under Lansing than for this season to not be played at all. Because I can tell you - if they play this season my guess is Lansing likes what he has to work with. My guess is that he would be a pretty tough man to "fire" / "non-renew" if we were to have a top 3 Mo Val finish and any sort of run in STL.
> 
> And the reason I think this will be ugly is that I don't imagine that Lansing wants to leave TH and I know that a lot of his friends/alums/donors don't want him gone - so it will be a very divided situation. I think a lot of it probably depends on contract/legal jargon that I don't understand... If they don't have a season does that still count as a year? I am not sure about any of that and I'm sure that will be part of the consideration.


I would assume they are still paying him his salary even if there is no season . With this kind of contract wouldn't it be safe to assume that it has an expiration date instead of expiration season . So if these are correct the University could not renew after date X and move on with the new hire.  Does anyone else see this a a plausible explanation of the contract?


----------



## Bluethunder

Daveinth said:


> I would assume they are still paying him his salary even if there is no season . With this kind of contract wouldn't it be safe to assume that it has an expiration date instead of expiration season . So if these are correct the University could not renew after date X and move on with the new hire.  Does anyone else see this a a plausible explanation of the contract?



I would agree. I’m sure his contract specifies a date at which it expires, as opposed to saying “5 basketball seasons” or something generic like that. If he gets paid through to spring/summer of 2021 I do not see how that would not be the end of the contract.

At that point I don’t know which would worry me more, Clink negotiating a new deal or Clink hiring a new coach.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Daveinth said:


> I would assume they are still paying him his salary even if there is no season . With this kind of contract wouldn't it be safe to assume that it has an expiration date instead of expiration season . So if these are correct the University could not renew after date X and move on with the new hire.  Does anyone else see this a a plausible explanation of the contract?


Yes, because even with no season he is still functioning in all of his other responsibilities as a head coach. He still has to manage the kids as they are on campus, recruit, glad hand former players and donors, etc. They have a Board of Trustees meeting in early May where they announce raises and what not. Lansing was in the May 8th meeting minutes and it notated as follows:

_Greg Lansing; Head Coach, Men's Basketball, Athletics-Mens Basketball; $248,478 per fiscal year; effective April 1, 2020 through March 31, 2021._

So Greg is our head coach until March 31, 2021 unless he is extended. If we don't have a season, the regular firing spree is unlikely to happen so the potential replacement pool would be pretty shallow. That said, Clink has long been rumored/linked to like Micah Shrewsberry so maybe the pool doesn't matter as he is the Associate Head Coach at Purdue.

Source: https://www.indstate.edu/sites/default/files/media/trustees/pdfs/bot-agenda-20200508_0.pdf


----------



## region rat

If they don’t extend ISU will be miserable indefinitely.  Hoopsturb will be be the next coach..


----------



## HOOPSFAN

region rat said:


> If they don’t extend ISU will be miserable indefinitely.  Hoopsturb will be be the next coach..


Don't you mean "if they do extend"?


----------



## Hooper

HOOPSFAN said:


> Don't you mean "if they do extend"?


IKR!  3rd in MVC last season, overall career winning record, about to have the most wins in school history, one of the winningest coaches in the entire current ISU athletic department (and better record than any Clinkscales hire not involving a pool), wins over IU, Butler, and many other P5s.  All with the lowest MVC budget, lowest MVC salary, and outdated facilities.   Just miserable....


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Hulman Center is an MVC quality arena. If you want to complain about facilities look at Valpo (yikes), Loyola, and Drake. Those arenas aren't even mid-major quality.


----------



## Hooper

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Hulman Center is an MVC quality arena. If you want to complain about facilities look at Valpo (yikes), Loyola, and Drake. Those arenas aren't even mid-major quality.


Yeah that’s why I said “outdated.”  It’s nearly 50 years old and is just now getting renovated into the 21st century.


----------



## Southgrad07

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Hulman Center is an MVC quality arena. If you want to complain about facilities look at Valpo (yikes), Loyola, and Drake. Those arenas aren't even mid-major quality.



It is now. Before the renovations I have been to  Horizon league arenas that I would of taken over the Hulman Center. We should have a top 3-4 facility now.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Even before the renovations it was still better than the dump Purdue plays in. Some of the HL schools have nice arenas from pictures I've seen, but I've never been in them so I can't make an accurate comparison there.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Hooper said:


> IKR!  3rd in MVC last season, overall career winning record, about to have the most wins in school history, one of the winningest coaches in the entire current ISU athletic department (and better record than any Clinkscales hire not involving a pool), wins over IU, Butler, and many other P5s.  All with the lowest MVC budget, lowest MVC salary, and outdated facilities.   Just miserable....


You always seem to ignore ALL THOSE SEASONS OF LESS THAN MEDIOCRITY between 2011 & 2019 ..... hmmmm?


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I think Lansing deserves another season, but you all have to admit that the MVC is not very good. There's a reason that two Thursday teams won on Friday and then one of them went on to play on Sunday. And trust me it's not because we play in an 8 bid league.

The year before we had a 5 seed playing a 6 seed on Sunday. The top of our conference is weak and the bottom is really bad. My guess is that post-pandemic it gets even worse when the MVC schools don't have as much money to blow on basketball.


----------



## Bluethunder

HOOPSFAN said:


> You always seem to ignore ALL THOSE SEASONS OF LESS THAN MEDIOCRITY between 2011 & 2019 ..... hmmmm?



First of all, you need to get some facts straight.  Your hatred for Lansing is clouding your memory.  For instance, 2013-2014 was arguable the best team Indiana State has had in the past thirty years and probably would have been a tourney team in any other year except that was also the year of WSU's super season.  He also had winning seasons in the years before that too.

Second, you seem to want to ignore (or maybe you weren't old enough to remember) ALL OF THOSE SEASONS between 1980-1997.  If you remember how low Indiana State basketball was in those years, a coach who routinely finishes in the top half of the league, has knocked off more than his fair share of top 25 teams/programs over the years, has a winning record and loves the school and community looks pretty good.

The grass ain't always greener on the other side.


----------



## Gotta Hav

I was opposed to Lansing being hired, and I'm still not a fan.  However, with that said, if the season is canceled and his contract comes to an end...and it will, in all fairness....I believe he should be given a one year contract after this one ends.  If he doesn't accept the terms....then let's move forward.


----------



## sycamorebacker

I don't think GL is the greatest coach ever, but I think he has put together as much talent as we have ever had so I don't see how you can let him go, considering the record he has.


----------



## DyedBlue

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I think Lansing deserves another season, but you all have to admit that the MVC is not very good. There's a reason that two Thursday teams won on Friday and then one of them went on to play on Sunday. And trust me it's not because we play in an 8 bid league.
> 
> The year before we had a 5 seed playing a 6 seed on Sunday. The top of our conference is weak and the bottom is really bad. My guess is that post-pandemic it gets even worse when the MVC schools don't have as much money to blow on basketball.



OF course, that horrible league status and #5 league finisher which lucked into an MVC Tournament win and undeserved NCAA bid with a 15 seed  playing clearly the best team in the Big 10 and #2 NCAA seed Michigan State would be blown off the floor and embarrassed.   

I guess that is why Bradley trailed by 1 point with 4.5 minutes to play in the game and the MSU probability of victory in the second half hovered around 55-60% until the final minutes of the game.    

Based on that result, perhaps any of the four teams finishing above Bradley in league play would have pulled out the victory.   But of course,  that is speculation and does not fit with the pre-defined theory that the MVC is a horrible leage.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

1. The league wasn't very good last year. The post about it not being very good wasn't inaccurate. 

2. The league has a pretty darn good reputation nationally and is always among the best mid major conferences. Consistency year over year has earned the conference plenty of respect.

3. As with any league - you have a lot of fans who are homers. They like to cheer internally for EVERYONE to be successful as long as they don't beat your team on that night... Which is fine - but were always going to get a bit of a bias opinion from fans of MVC teams. 

So I wouldn't get too hurt over the "predefined theory" sometimes it actually applies and it doesn't mean that the entire world actually feels that way. I think that it probably applied last year. The conference is not what it once was and that hurts some peoples feelings.


----------



## bent20

Hooper said:


> IKR!  *3rd in MVC last season, overall career winning record, about to have the most wins in school history, one of the winningest coaches in the entire current ISU athletic department* (and better record than any Clinkscales hire not involving a pool), wins over IU, Butler, and many other P5s.  All with the lowest MVC budget, lowest MVC salary, and outdated facilities.   Just miserable....



I wish that were more meaningful, but pretty low bar at ISU.


----------



## bent20

sycamorebacker said:


> I don't think GL is the greatest coach ever, but I think he has put together as much talent as we have ever had so I don't see how you can let him go, considering the record he has.



If you're going to renew him after one semi-successful season, how long do you renew him for?


----------



## Sycamorefan96

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> 1. The league wasn't very good last year. The post about it not being very good wasn't inaccurate.
> 
> 2. The league has a pretty darn good reputation nationally and is always among the best mid major conferences. Consistency year over year has earned the conference plenty of respect.
> 
> 3. As with any league - you have a lot of fans who are homers. They like to cheer internally for EVERYONE to be successful as long as they don't beat your team on that night... Which is fine - but were always going to get a bit of a bias opinion from fans of MVC teams.
> 
> So I wouldn't get too hurt over the "predefined theory" sometimes it actually applies and it doesn't mean that the entire world actually feels that way. I think that it probably applied last year. The conference is not what it once was and that hurts some peoples feelings.



I'm in my 20's, but when I first started watching ISU, the MVC was ranked in the top 5 of all the conferences and was consistently getting multiple bids. Maybe my expectations are too high, but the quality of the league has dropped significantly since then. Even during the Odum years our league was a lot better than what it is now. It kind of seemed like after Wichita went to the Final 4 everyone else just decided that they couldn't keep up with them.

I also remember when Arch Madness was one of, if not the best attended tournament in Division 1. Now days the crowds are not very good either. If they ever want a good crowd for CBS they better hope that two of Bradley, SIU, and Illinois State are playing each other or else the place will be more than half empty. Honestly I think the arena is too big and they need to find a new place to play it. It looks bad and that's with the upper deck covered over with a curtain, which didn't happen until after Wichita departed. There are 7 schools in our conference that won't bring 2000 fans to St Louis if they are playing on Sunday and we are one of them unfortunately. Before 2014 there were 6 schools that would bring a lot of fans. By the way, I didn't miscount. I'm not sure what happened to MSU's fans, but even when they make the semifinals they are basically no shows. I have serious doubts that they would have brought much of a crowd for the championship if they had beat Valpo in the semifinals.


----------



## bent20

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I'm in my 20's, but when I first started watching ISU, the MVC was ranked in the top 5 of all the conferences and was consistently getting multiple bids. Maybe my expectations are too high, but the quality of the league has dropped significantly since then. Even during the Odum years our league was a lot better than what it is now. It kind of seemed like after Wichita went to the Final 4 everyone else just decided that they couldn't keep up with them.
> 
> I also remember when Arch Madness was one of, if not the best attended tournament in Division 1. Now days the crowds are not very good either. If they ever want a good crowd for CBS they better hope that two of Bradley, SIU, and Illinois State are playing each other or else the place will be more than half empty. Honestly I think the arena is too big and they need to find a new place to play it. It looks bad and that's with the upper deck covered over with a curtain, which didn't happen until after Wichita departed. There are 7 schools in our conference that won't bring 2000 fans to St Louis if they are playing on Sunday and we are one of them unfortunately. Before 2014 there were 6 schools that would bring a lot of fans. By the way, I didn't miscount. I'm not sure what happened to MSU's fans, but even when they make the semifinals they are basically no shows. I have serious doubts that they would have brought much of a crowd for the championship if they had beat Valpo in the semifinals.



MVC lost those bids before Creighton and Wichita left (that's part of why they left). Bigger conferences with more money started throwing their weight around. And for what it's worth, MVC did add a team (Loyola) that went to the Final Four after Wichita left, so .... 

I still find it interesting that adding Loyola was a decision that many here and elsewhere in the MVC bitched endlessly about (not because they were a private school - a fair complaint - but because they allegedly weren't good enough to be in the MVC). And then it was proven just how wrong and foolish they were.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

I don't think the MVC is unique, down, or whatever. The status quo has been maintained. I also think the MVC's ranking and seeds are pretty much as they were -- aside from getting multiple bids. The conference used to be in the 8-12 area but has remained in the 10-12 area save for a few seasons where it has been worse post WSU/Creighton. You've also had the creation of the Big East, significant consolidation to those bigger non power conferences including pilfering schools from the MVC, and mid-major schools figure out they have to spend to become dominant -- Gonzaga, Butler, St. Marys, etc. This is on top of the power schools shutting mid-majors out by not scheduling, having new metrics created, increased talent via autonomy, etc.

Adding Loyola to the Valley always had a distinct pros/cons list that we discussed ad nauseam. They decided they wanted to take a top spot and spent their way there. Anyone that didn't think playing in Chicago vs Des Moines, Terre Haute or Evansville would be a draw was kidding themselves.

You want to win at a high clip as a mid-major you up your budget to $5m. I don't think there is a single mid-major program at that threshold that hasn't been a perennial 20+ game winner in their conference. Certainly not any that have multiple down years. That said, I've also said if you start spending at that clip, I don't consider you a mid-major anymore... just like I don't consider a Gonzaga, a St. Marys or the A10 to be mid-majors.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I still wish Loyola wasn't in the conference. In my view you should have to have either MVFC football or baseball to be in the conference. I don't think a requirement of having 2 of the 3 major college sports is too much to ask. We have all 3 while schools like Loyola and Drake only have 1 (maybe Drake gets a pass for Pioneer League), which already gives them an advantage over us.


----------



## bent20

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I still wish Loyola wasn't in the conference. In my view you should have to have either MVFC football or baseball to be in the conference. I don't think a requirement of having 2 of the 3 major college sports is too much to ask. We have all 3 while schools like Loyola and Drake only have 1 (maybe Drake gets a pass for Pioneer League), which already gives them an advantage over us.



Schools at our level are just trying to survive in the college athletics landscape, so pretty hard to have a conference with schools that are all equal. If we banded together with state schools from Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee, maybe. But not gonna happen.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> Schools at our level are just trying to survive in the college athletics landscape, so pretty hard to have a conference with schools that are all equal. If we banded together with state schools from Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee, maybe. But not gonna happen.



I somewhat agree. Without the college landscape changing, the long term solution for us has always been one of three things:

1) Continue to kick, claw and scratch away in mediocrity in the MVC/MVFC with a good year or two sprinkled in every once in awhile.
2) Drop football and go balls out in hoops in the MVC to try to become the next Wichita State, Butler, Loyola type.
3) Move to the OVC where we are situated with mostly public, like sized and like budget schools and see how we fare.

This is cut and dry. Anyone that takes their emotions out of it and surveys things logically can come to this conclusion. There is nothing special or beneficial to Indiana State with regards to MVC/MVFC membership.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> I somewhat agree. Without the college landscape changing, the long term solution for us has always been one of three things:
> 
> 1) Continue to kick, claw and scratch away in mediocrity in the MVC/MVFC with a good year or two sprinkled in every once in awhile.
> 2) Drop football and go balls out in hoops in the MVC to try to become the next Wichita State, Butler, Loyola type.
> 3) Move to the OVC where we are situated with mostly public, like sized and like budget schools and see how we fare.
> 
> This is cut and dry. Anyone that takes their emotions out of it and surveys things logically can come to this conclusion. There is nothing special or beneficial to Indiana State with regards to MVC/MVFC membership.



I'd flip options # 1 and #2 but football will be the factor in our long term solutions/decisions.   It's too "pricey" an issue to not address.

Hope all of the returning students and newcomers have great common sense wrt the COVID-19 "rules of the road"

Maybe we'll be more in control of this issue before the school year finishes


----------



## Sycamorefan96

My vote would be the OVC. We had our chance to be a Wichita, Butler, Creighton type 40 years ago and blew it. If we drop football we will just be an Evansville type. Going to Tennessee in the winter for a game is also more appealing than going to Iowa.


----------



## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> I somewhat agree. Without the college landscape changing, the long term solution for us has always been one of three things:
> 
> 1) Continue to kick, claw and scratch away in mediocrity in the MVC/MVFC with a good year or two sprinkled in every once in awhile.
> 2) Drop football and go balls out in hoops in the MVC to try to become the next Wichita State, Butler, Loyola type.
> 3) Move to the OVC where we are situated with mostly public, like sized and like budget schools and see how we fare.
> 
> This is cut and dry. Anyone that takes their emotions out of it and surveys things logically can come to this conclusion. There is nothing special or beneficial to Indiana State with regards to MVC/MVFC membership.



I don't see the MVC lasting long term. It'd be nice to act before it dissolves.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> I don't see the MVC lasting long term. It'd be nice to act before it dissolves.



Why is the MVC folding "soon?"    it's in no worse shape than the WAC, Horizon, Summit, MEAC, OVC, etc, etc, etc


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Gotta Hav said:


> I was opposed to Lansing being hired, and I'm still not a fan.  However, with that said, if the season is canceled and his contract comes to an end...and it will, in all fairness....I believe he should be given a one year contract after this one ends.  If he doesn't accept the terms....then let's move forward.


Let him walk ............. your vision is clouded. Creighton & Wichita both who ran roughshod over the Valley left a few years ago and did the "great one" move his teams in to the top 3 regularly ......... NO NO NO...... last season was better but it took years for him to get it back.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

sycamorebacker said:


> I don't think GL is the greatest coach ever, but I think he has put together as much talent as we have ever had so I don't see how you can let him go, considering the record he has.


Send him on his way. If he has any ambition he should move on and follow his dream. He always seems to say "all I have to do is make a call".  Make that call GL !


----------



## Buckhorn

Will Clink stay as ISU AD if GL's "Honor Guard" somehow secures an extended contract? Overhead drones report Clink's vehicles no longer w/ State of IN-owned license plates.


----------



## region rat

HOOPSFAN said:


> Send him on his way. If he has any ambition he should move on and follow his dream. He always seems to say "all I have to do is make a call".  Make that call GL !


----------



## Sycamorefan96

bent20 said:


> I don't see the MVC lasting long term. It'd be nice to act before it dissolves.



If the MVC publics were smart they would form an all-sports conference with the 4 Dakota schools. Playing these little private schools does nothing for us. NDSU, SDSU, and USD are all an improvement over Drake, Valpo, and Evansville. But they're not smart enough to dump them so ISU needs to be aggressive.

People on here wonder why we don't have a rival. It's pretty simple really. Between football, basketball, and baseball we have 16 different opponents and out of those 16 we only play 4 in every sport and 7 in at least 2 sports. It's a joke.

Heck if we went OVC we would play 9 schools in every sport, and all 12 in at least 2 sports. This is one of the biggest reasons I would be happy to see us join the OVC.


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> Why is the MVC folding "soon?"    it's in no worse shape than the WAC, Horizon, Summit, MEAC, OVC, etc, etc, etc



I said long-term. I wouldn't be surprised if it no longer exists in 20 years. That could be said about a lot of mid-major conferences, I guess, but the model just doesn't work well.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> I said long-term. I wouldn't be surprised if it no longer exists in 20 years. That could be said about a lot of mid-major conferences, I guess, but the model just doesn't work well.



Thanks --- I'll check back in ~15 years....   it's anyone's guess what the collegiate scene will be at that point


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> Thanks --- I'll check back in ~15 years....   it's anyone's guess what the collegiate scene will be at that point



My point is that I don't want to see ISU wait, which is what ISU always does with athletics. Form a plan that makes sense for us rather than staying in a bad situation and hoping for the best. Try to lead instead of being a helpless bystander.


----------



## needles

ISU belongs in the OVC in all sports. More Natural rivalries, no plane travel, and schools with similar budgets and demographics. ISU has no business spending money on plane travel to the Dakotas. In fact all Of ISU’s travel should be by bus. Of course I realize that there could be exceptions, but they should be just that exceptions.


----------



## 4Q_iu

needles said:


> ISU belongs in the OVC in all sports. More Natural rivalries, no plane travel, and schools with similar budgets and demographics. ISU has no business spending money on plane travel to the Dakotas. In fact all Of ISU’s travel should be by bus. Of course I realize that there could be exceptions, but they should be just that exceptions.



What "natural rivalries" exist in the OVC?   I think the athletic budgets are the same - not positive of overall budgets, nor the demographics

We have long-time series with Eastern Illinois -- that's it.   There are 12 OVC members; we've never faced 4 of them in football, included Pioneer Football Conf member Morehead State.   We've never faced Jacksonville State in men's basketball or football.

So, toss out EIU as a rival; what are the rest?


----------



## Sycamorefan96

4Q_iu said:


> What "natural rivalries" exist in the OVC?   I think the athletic budgets are the same - not positive of overall budgets, nor the demographics



Eastern Illinois is already a rival and they are only 50 minutes from downtown Terre Haute. They're a more natural rival than Evansville who doesn't play football or Illinois State who probably considers SIU or Bradley a bigger rival than us.


----------



## 4Q_iu

that's one....  and the MBB rivalry is virtually non-existent as we lead the series 90-36.  The football series is close enough to make it a "big game"
The rest?

And the OVC has "football issues" as well, Belmont... no football;  SIU-Edwardsville...   no football;   Morehead St...   Pioneer Football

As for ill st regarding SIU or Bradley...

UK doesn't consider U'Louisville a rivalry...   U.Texas doesn't consider Tx A&M a rivalry    at times Gloomington hasn't considered that school in West Lafayette a rivalry


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I don't know who you are talking to, but I happen to be friends with IU, Louisville, and Kentucky fans. UL and UK hate each other with a passion, and IU and PU are definitely rivals no matter how bad one of them may be.

In the case of the OVC there are 9 football schools, and of the three that don't play (or play PFL) two of them are public schools. Throw us in the mix and there would be 10 football schools, 2 non-fb publics, and Belmont. That's a definite improvement for us in terms of playing against common opponents with similar agendas. It's better than playing 5 non football private schools with two of them that don't even have a baseball team. In the case of Belmont if they hated football as much as the private schools in the MVC the Bruins would have bolted both times they had an offer.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I don't know who you are talking to, but I happen to be friends with IU, Louisville, and Kentucky fans. UL and UK hate each other with a passion, and IU and PU are definitely rivals no matter how bad one of them may be.
> 
> In the case of the OVC there are 9 football schools, and of the three that don't play (or play PFL) two of them are public schools. Throw us in the mix and there would be 10 football schools, 2 non-fb publics, and Belmont. That's a definite improvement for us in terms of playing against common opponents with similar agendas. It's better than playing 5 non football private schools with two of them that don't even have a baseball team. In the case of Belmont if they hated football as much as the private schools in the MVC the Bruins would have bolted both times they had an offer.



I agree with your assessment of UL and UK fans' hatred.     However, the schools have met 32 times in football.  32 times in 107 seasons of "opportunity," (uk football began in 1881, ul football in 1912...)  - that's roughly once ever 3.5 years.  They've only began playing annually since 1994

they've met 43 times in basketball but the series became annual in 1983 -- both fairly modern creations.

as to the two big ten teams...   i've met more gloomington fans who don't consider the other school a rival;  i consider those gloomington fans to be near-delusional but you can find them.   And those delusional fans will say that uk and that team in north crook are their rivals (which is especially odd when that gloomington fan is wearing a north crook football cap, jacket, hoodie...)

If the OVC is such a great home, then why didnt ISU lead the way to it in 1977 vice the Missouri Valley?


----------



## sycamore tuff

I suspect the valley was a different conference back then.  We had more football schools back then ( West Texas State, New Mexico State, Wichita State).


----------



## Sycamorefan96

sycamore tuff said:


> I suspect the valley was a different conference back then.  We had more football schools back then ( West Texas State, New Mexico State, Wichita State).



I had to go back and look but there were 9 schools in the MVC (including ISU) and 7 of the 9 sponsored football.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I had to go back and look but there were 9 schools in the MVC (including ISU) and 7 of the 9 sponsored football.



True, Drake and Tulsa were two of the 7...      and all played Div I.

however, within years; the Valley was a hybrid football conference (Div I-A and Div I-AA)

today:

- we're all Div I- FCS but we're in a football only conference

- and West Texas A&M is a Div II school

Football has been an issue in the Valley for decades


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> If the OVC is such a great home, then why didnt ISU lead the way to it in 1977 vice the Missouri Valley?



Times have certainly changed. That question is irrelevant now. We can't compete with any consistency in the MVC. We've been getting our butts kick in pretty much all sports for a few years now. We recently went about three years with no program completing a winning season outside baseball.


----------



## 4Q_iu

All true points.

Would you prefer we join the GLVC?  The HCAC?   Maybe the Crossroads League


----------



## WOZ

61 days left on GL’s contract?


----------



## HOOPSFAN

March 31st ....... end of the line ..... NO APRIL FOOLS JOKE.............


----------



## child

I noted yesterday while listing to JMV the Ride sports talk radio in Indy that he thinks the writing is on the wall, that GL is gone! Hope not...


----------



## Daveinth

Throw all the assumptions around that it  is a given GL is all but without a job. However with the job that he and the staff have done this year it is not out of the question that he could end up in the COY talks in the Valley . Then what happens?


----------



## child

What Are COY talks?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

child said:


> What Are COY talks?


Coach of the Year. 

I don't think anyone but DeVries gets it but we'll see.


----------



## Bluethunder

My vote would go to Lickliter at Evansville. They were picked dead last by everyone and could end up 5th and have been competitive with most of the teams in the league. He has done a great job.

but if you look at recent history whoever wins the league gets coach of the year so expect DeVries to get it.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bluethunder said:


> My vote would go to Lickliter at Evansville. They were picked dead last by everyone and could end up 5th and have been competitive with most of the teams in the league. He has done a great job.
> 
> but if you look at recent history whoever wins the league gets coach of the year so expect DeVries to get it.


Really, over Drake? Weren't they picked 7th-8th?


----------



## Daveinth

My argument is we started 1-5 and finishing 11-6 in conference . Honestly no team is competing any better than Indiana State .


----------



## Hooper

Daveinth said:


> My argument is we started 1-5 and finishing 11-6 in conference . Honestly no team is competing any better than Indiana State .


Didn’t you just post that Lansing was a dumb failure and in over his head?  Like 72 hours ago?


----------



## Daveinth

Hooper said:


> Didn’t you just post that Lansing was a dumb failure and in over his head?  Like 72 hours ago?


Actually I said his tenure here has been a failure and that giving him more money would not make him make less stupid coaching mistakes . I am giving kudos for the job THIS YEAR. Was just throwing it out there that he should be in the discussion . His contract is the whole body of work he has produced in the past 10 years . I mean even a broken clock is right twice a day .


----------



## Hooper

So he’s in over his head but also arguably Coach of the Year.  Got it.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

To be fair - Lansing might want out as well... I don’t know why all of this centers around ISU wanting Lansing? It’s entirely possible that he doesn’t want ISU or to work for people that really don’t want him here.


----------



## Hooper

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> To be fair - Lansing might want out as well... I don’t know why all of this centers around ISU wanting Lansing? It’s entirely possible that he doesn’t want ISU or to work for people that really don’t want him here.


Exactly.  I’ve been wondering the same thing.  Our AD, whom has hired nothing but coaches with losing records and thrown our football recruits under the bus on the record in the state’s most-read newspaper may be running Lansing off....crazy.


----------



## Bluethunder

Jason Svoboda said:


> Really, over Drake? Weren't they picked 7th-8th?


Drake was picked 6th I believe but there were some who picked them higher and some who picked them a little lower. The avg came out to 6th

I think everyone picked Evansville last. If you look at their vote total they were way below even the 9th place picked team.

Nobody would have predicted that Evansville would finish 5th and not be a Thursday team.

I would guess you would have found far more people at the start of the season that would have put money on Drake finishing second in the league long before you would find the same amount of people to put money on Evansville ending up in 5th


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> To be fair - Lansing might want out as well... I don’t know why all of this centers around ISU wanting Lansing? It’s entirely possible that he doesn’t want ISU or to work for people that really don’t want him here.


Well his wife landed a kick ass position in beautiful Scottsdale, AZ and it was long rumored he had a Suns scouting gig offered to him. I wouldn't blame him one bit to head for warmer pastures.


----------



## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> Well his wife landed a kick ass position in beautiful Scottsdale, AZ and it was long rumored he had a Suns scouting gig offered to him. I wouldn't blame him one bit to head for warmer pastures.                                             I know back when COVID





Jason Svoboda said:


> Well his wife landed a kick ass position in beautiful Scottsdale, AZ and it was long rumored he had a Suns scouting gig offered to him. I wouldn't blame him one bit to head for warmer pastures.


So....if this is the case then he probably didn't plan on coming back anyway? Hell, no wonder no offers have been going out to recruits. This info needs to be reported so everyone can quit feeling sorry for poor old Greg.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> So....if this is the case then he probably didn't plan on coming back anyway? Hell, no wonder no offers have been going out to recruits. This info needs to be reported so everyone can quit feeling sorry for poor old Greg.



The Suns scouting gig was rumored from several years ago. Just wanted to put that out there for clarity.

Honestly, I hope that does come to fruition, because I think he has a good eye for NBA talent based on some of the guys he's ID'd here.


----------



## 4Q_iu

fair amount of chatter on a purdue board that lansing and shrewsberry may change jobs...

unless shrewsberry wants/takes the penn state job (a thankless job) in a legit conference


----------



## 4Q_iu

Easily one of Todd Golden's best columns - ever.

www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/todd-aaron-golden-lansing-is-exactly-what-isu-wants-but-can-it-see-it/article_f9a35c05-6d6d-5f66-a7dd-9cb6112166f4.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> Easily one of Todd Golden's best columns - ever.
> 
> www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/todd-aaron-golden-lansing-is-exactly-what-isu-wants-but-can-it-see-it/article_f9a35c05-6d6d-5f66-a7dd-9cb6112166f4.html



"Among the other feedback I’ve received is that ISU’s administration is tired of hearing about the lack of resources it provides to men’s basketball, and generally, into athletics."

No bigger sign at a lack of leadership on that campus than this line from his article. Leaders would dive into the problem. They'd do the work. Research. Troubleshoot. Problem solve. You know, all those things they preach to the students on campus while they strive to get that degree. Meanwhile, our leaders in the face of a problem with decades of empirical data pout and continue to perpetuate the issue.

Indiana State: More from day one... Except for the basketball program.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367323509307760641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367323970362437635


----------



## Hooper

I've posted this before....but this is what I want to hear, and what we should all hear, from our leaders.  Instead, ISU is shocked, SHOCKED, anyone dare question or challenge them and their budgetary decisions.    Curtis, McKee, and Clink (though it's sounding like he's less and less culpable in this debacle) take note:

*Transcript of Jerry Kill's coaching search press conference after Barry Hinson's departure in 2019:

On his budget to hire the head coach.*
_We're going to be a Division I program. We're not going to be a Division II program, we're not going to act like we're a IAA program, we're not going to act like we're going to get this coach for the lowest money. We've worked very hard at raising money and we're going to go out and compete. What that level of money is I can't tell you. I know what the market value is in the Valley. I even know some of the private school's money. I think if you look at me since I've been here, I don't think I've pulled any punches with what I've done. We're not going to do anything less with the basketball program and we'll do more because the bottom line is, we're the front porch of the University and we have to win at basketball and put 6-to-8,000 in (SIU Arena). I want it full. To get it full you gotta win. I can't put a dollar figure on it, but we will compete._


----------



## HOOPSFAN

4Q_iu said:


> Easily one of Todd Golden's best columns - ever.
> 
> www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/todd-aaron-golden-lansing-is-exactly-what-isu-wants-but-can-it-see-it/article_f9a35c05-6d6d-5f66-a7dd-9cb6112166f4.html


Golden is a Lansing shill despite what he denies in his column. A decent Team last year (by typical ISU standards) but not a Valley title contender & blown away in the conference tourney AGAIN. A little better team this season but even with three all-conference recognized players again finishing 4th & not a Valley title contender with one last gasp to "show" in St. Louis. The Lansing PR machine shamelessly spewing forth to try to save his woefully underpaid job with a "riding the bus to recruit" budget. Go away peacefully GL and try to find a new job. Hope the AD takes your keys away immediately following your next loss.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

HOOPSFAN said:


> Golden is a Lansing shill despite what he denies in his column. A decent Team last year (by typical ISU standards) but not a Valley title contender & blown away in the conference tourney AGAIN. A little better team this season but even with three all-conference recognized players again finishing 4th & not a Valley title contender with one last gasp to "show" in St. Louis. The Lansing PR machine shamelessly spewing forth to try to save his woefully underpaid job with a "riding the bus to recruit" budget. Go away peacefully GL and try to find a new job. Hope the AD takes your keys away immediately following your next loss.



1. I think your take on Golden couldn’t be further from the truth. He’s a lot of things - but he’s way too proud of his professional obligation to be bought and sold by anyone. In fact - I think he’s so distant from the program and ISU that he’s often late to the party... This article should have been written over a year ago if he really felt this way. It took a tweet and an article from IndyStar to get him all hot and bothered? Come on... A paragraph on his blog suddenly makes him the foremost authority on this matter?? Only on his own mind.

2. Either you’re not paying attention or you’re too jaded to tell? Any chance of GL going away peacefully has come and gone... Oh it was a tongue in cheek comment? Let’s hope.

When he’s gone I expect you to be on here regularly over the next 3 to 20 years when we suck. I’m going to need you to continue to be lead cheerleader through those difficult seasons. You’ve proved to us over the last two years to be very resilient - you’re in the extremely minority of people who want Lansing gone and you’re the ring leader. So when he’s gone - I expect you will be happy and be here to keep things positive right?! Because I’m sure once you pull back the Lansing hate curtain you’re actually a positive person that likes most people - surely it’s only Lansing that you have such hate toward.

Last question - seriously... you want us to win 3 in STL or you want us one and done? That will tell me all I need to know.


----------



## tennessee

Jason Svoboda said:


> "Among the other feedback I’ve received is that ISU’s administration is tired of hearing about the lack of resources it provides to men’s basketball, and generally, into athletics."
> 
> No bigger sign at a lack of leadership on that campus than this line from his article. Leaders would dive into the problem. They'd do the work. Research. Troubleshoot. Problem solve. You know, all those things they preach to the students on campus while they strive to get that degree. Meanwhile, our leaders in the face of a problem with decades of empirical data pout and continue to perpetuate the issue.
> 
> Indiana State: More from day one... Except for the basketball program.


This quote kind of hits at one of my fears with this impending coaching search.

We know Lansing and Clinkscales have had discussions on a contract extension - and per some rumors floating around, he turned those opportunities down last year and ISU turned them down this year. My guess is Lansing was going to get a raise as part of the negotiated extension, but I don't know that. Not a large one, but something to show good faith.

*IF *Curtis killed the latest round of talks between Lansing and Clinkscales, my fear is she did so because she did not want to give Lansing the raise - and as a result, the next hire will not be paid well enough to attract the kind of candidate this job seems to need.


----------



## 4Q_iu

HOOPSFAN said:


> Golden is a Lansing shill despite what he denies in his column. A decent Team last year (by typical ISU standards) but not a Valley title contender & blown away in the conference tourney AGAIN. A little better team this season but even with three all-conference recognized players again finishing 4th & not a Valley title contender with one last gasp to "show" in St. Louis. The Lansing PR machine shamelessly spewing forth to try to save his woefully underpaid job with a "riding the bus to recruit" budget. Go away peacefully GL and try to find a new job. Hope the AD takes your keys away immediately following your next loss.



with apologies to Manfred Mann...

Blinded by the hate
Revved up like a d****ebag
Another ****er on the board

Blinded by the hate
Revved up like a d****ebag
Another ****er on the board

Blinded by the hate
Revved up like a d****ebag

Hoopsfan drummers bummers
Madman in the summer
With a teenage brain
In the dumps with the mumps
As the adolescent pumps
His way into his hole...


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

tennessee said:


> This quote kind of hits at one of my fears with this impending coaching search.
> 
> We know Lansing and Clinkscales have had discussions on a contract extension - and per some rumors floating around, he turned those opportunities down last year and ISU turned them down this year. My guess is Lansing was going to get a raise as part of the negotiated extension, but I don't know that. Not a large one, but something to show good faith.
> 
> *IF *Curtis killed the latest round of talks between Lansing and Clinkscales, my fear is she did so because she did not want to give Lansing the raise - and as a result, the next hire will not be paid well enough to attract the kind of candidate this job seems to need.



I think GL & IState had atleast verbally agreed on a contract extension - COVID happened and the contract offer changed - Lansing asked for what was originally offered and they pulled the carpet out from under him on it... My understanding or distant interpretation of what went down.

Then sometime not too long ago - Clink made it clear to Lansing that he wasn’t going to coach his way into a new contract that they were going in separate ways unless he made the NCAA tournament. That was the only way he was coming back.

Thus - the self preservation campaign. If I’m going down then you’re going down with me... You know the University will still be here - Lansing he will have to find another job. His earnings while good by most of our standards are shit compared to most coaches - lucky for him he lived in one of the most affordable places to live in the United States. When he leaves - he will uhhh have to find another job. It won’t hurt to say - look everyone loved me I got screwed. Even if you don’t believe that to be true - 99% of the people with a platform believe it and have put it on public record.


----------



## TreeTop

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> When he’s gone I expect you to be on here regularly over the next 3 to 20 years when we suck. I’m going to need you to continue to be lead cheerleader through those difficult seasons. You’ve proved to us over the last two years to be very resilient - you’re in the extremely minority of people who want Lansing gone and you’re the ring leader. So when he’s gone - I expect you will be happy and be here to keep things positive right?! Because I’m sure once you pull back the Lansing hate curtain you’re actually a positive person that likes most people - surely it’s only Lansing that you have such hate toward.



THIS.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

tennessee said:


> *IF *Curtis killed the latest round of talks between Lansing and Clinkscales, my fear is she did so because she did not want to give Lansing the raise - and as a result, the next hire will not be paid well enough to attract the kind of candidate this job seems to need.



The rumor is President Curtis was not happy with Greg and The Athletic article where he was frank about the budget situation and program limitations. Thus, she nixed the rumored extension offered by Clink. That does seem to fit in with Golden's quote about the Indiana State administration not being happy in hearing about it. We know that isn't Clink because I've personally attended donor events where he stated the basketball budget wasn't acceptable. 

If that is the case, it does not sound like President Curtis has thick enough skin for her position. As I mentioned, that response is a tell tale sign at a lack of leadership. Knowing the buck stops with her, I can't help but believe the rumors are true at this point. She's lucky I'm not super wealthy and on the board of trustees because I would be voting against her renewal. I'm beginning to think the search firm we hired for our Presidential search wasn't very good, especially hearing feedback from multiple people that attended those interviews and spoke with the candidates. 

Indiana State deserves better.


----------



## tennessee

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I think GL & IState had atleast verbally agreed on a contract extension - COVID happened and the contract offer changed - Lansing asked for what was originally offered and they pulled the carpet out from under him on it... My understanding or distant interpretation of what went down.
> 
> Then sometime not too long ago - Clink made it clear to Lansing that he wasn’t going to coach his way into a new contract that they were going in separate ways unless he made the NCAA tournament. That was the only way he was coming back.
> 
> Thus - the self preservation campaign. If I’m going down then you’re going down with me... You know the University will still be here - Lansing he will have to find another job. His earnings while good by most of our standards are shit compared to most coaches - lucky for him he lived in one of the most affordable places to live in the United States. When he leaves - he will uhhh have to find another job. It won’t hurt to say - look everyone loved me I got screwed. Even if you don’t believe that to be true - 99% of the people with a platform believe it and have put it on public record.


Got it. If COVID is the excuse, then that would also lead me to believe it's a bad sign regarding the next hire.

As has been said ad-nauseum, right now is probably the worst possible time to try something like this. I understand moving on from Lansing. He appears to have plateaued to a degree. But if the plan is to replace him with someone cheaper - which would be hard to do given where his salary falls in the MVC - you can't couple that with only the second season players get a free transfer.

In the past you might have been able to get away with cutting costs. Now you'll have a cheap coach and a gutted roster.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

tennessee said:


> Got it. If COVID is the excuse, then that would also lead me to believe it's a bad sign regarding the next hire.
> 
> As has been said ad-nauseum, right now is probably the worst possible time to try something like this. I understand moving on from Lansing. He appears to have plateaud to a degree. But if the plan is to replace him with someone cheaper - which would be hard to do given where his salary falls in the MVC - you can't couple that with only the second season players get a free transfer.
> 
> In the past you might have been able to get away with cutting costs. Now you'll have a cheap coach and a gutted roster.



Yep - you're on the right track. I think back when all of the Lansing extension talk was going on behind closed doors COVID was a timing excuse rather than a financial excuse at that time... I think it delayed things to the point that the water got muddy for a number of reasons. 

That being said - COVID is a financial excuse going forward. I don't think anyone really knew back in April/May how long and what the actual impact of COVID would be on athletic programs/budgets. But I would think it will have a profound negative impact on athletic budgets - especially mid major programs. So it would be silly to ignore it and it would be silly to think Indiana State  (or any other program for that matter) would just be in a position to shift some money or find it on a tree (no pun intended) and all the sudden up our Hoops budget. It's not even fair to think that any program could do that given what has happened the past year.


----------



## tennessee

Jason Svoboda said:


> The rumor is President Curtis was not happy with Greg and The Athletic article where he was frank about the budget situation and program limitations. Thus, she nixed the rumored extension offered by Clink. That does seem to fit in with Golden's quote about the Indiana State administration not being happy in hearing about it. We know that isn't Clink because I've personally attended donor events where he stated the basketball budget wasn't acceptable.
> 
> If that is the case, it does not sound like President Curtis has thick enough skin for her position. As I mentioned, that response is a tell tale sign at a lack of leadership. Knowing the buck stops with her, I can't help but believe the rumors are true at this point. She's lucky I'm not super wealthy and on the board of trustees because I would be voting against her renewal. I'm beginning to think the search firm we hired for our Presidential search wasn't very good, especially hearing feedback from multiple people that attended those interviews and spoke with the candidates.
> 
> Indiana State deserves better.


Reading The Athletic piece for the first time now. And, yeah, candid is an understatement.


----------



## Hooper

Jason Svoboda said:


> The rumor is President Curtis was not happy with Greg and The Athletic article where he was frank about the budget situation and program limitations. Thus, she nixed the rumored extension offered by Clink. That does seem to fit in with Golden's quote about the Indiana State administration not being happy in hearing about it. We know that isn't Clink because I've personally attended donor events where he stated the basketball budget wasn't acceptable.
> 
> If that is the case, it does not sound like President Curtis has thick enough skin for her position. As I mentioned, that response is a tell tale sign at a lack of leadership. Knowing the buck stops with her, I can't help but believe the rumors are true at this point. She's lucky I'm not super wealthy and on the board of trustees because I would be voting against her renewal. I'm beginning to think the search firm we hired for our Presidential search wasn't very good, especially hearing feedback from multiple people that attended those interviews and spoke with the candidates.
> 
> Indiana State deserves better.


All the time and money spent (I'm guessing six-figures in consulting costs) on searching for a new President and the recommendations ended up being: "Promote your own Provost (Licari) or take the Provost from a D-2 school in rural Missouri."   And lo and behold shortly after being passed over Licari is now a D-1 President himself elsewhere.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> All the time and money spent (I'm guessing six-figures in consulting costs) on searching for a new President and the recommendations ended up being: "Promote your own Provost (Licari) or take the Provost from a D-2 school in rural Missouri."   And lo and behold shortly after being passed over Licari is now a D-1 President himself elsewhere.



Licari was Provost for what, 18 months when Bradley retired?   Was he the only finalist?  Was he ready to be a Univ President after 18 months of serving as Provost?


----------



## Hooper

4Q_iu said:


> Licari was Provost for what, 18 months when Bradley retired?   Was he the only finalist?  Was he ready to be a Univ President after 18 months of serving as Provost?


Apparently yes because 18-24 months later he became a University President himself.  And yes, the finalists were he and Dr. Curtis.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hooper said:


> Apparently yes because 18-24 months later he became a University President himself.  And yes, the finalists were he and Dr. Curtis.



I'd have to look at a calendar again but from their respective CVs

Licari joins ISU as Provost Summer 2015, he was hired as Austin Peay's President in Dec 2020 - correct?

Curtis spent ~6 years as Provost at Central Missouri (Go Mules!) and was hired as ISU's President in Jan 2018...

I don't work in University Admin but is 5-6 years the norm for Provosts prior to hiring as a Univ Pres?

If the BoT is unhappy w/ Dr Curtis, I doubt she'll be back...   The last President I recall having "problems" was Dr Benjamin -- IIRC, he battled annually with a different group, though i think folks I know at ISU then agreed with his battles or certainly weren't ready to run him out of town.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Jason Svoboda said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367323509307760641
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367323970362437635


Perhaps they are tired of hearing about it and will do something to make it a non issue going forward.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

sycamore tuff said:


> Perhaps they are tired of hearing about it and will do something to make it a non issue going forward.


One could only hope.

In the Licari debate, he was who I had hoped we would hire back when it was down to him and Curtis. I don't remember how exactly, but he had connections to UNI and then obviously worked here, so he had to have been familiar with the landscape of MVC athletics. Instead we hire some old woman from some D2 or whatever the heck the college she came from is. Nevertheless she's been nothing short of a disappointment.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Has anyone else noticed that Lansing's record since 2015, when Clinkscales became AD is 86-92?

If you're in charge of performance, and you have to report to be people above you, how do justify keeping that low performing employee on?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Gotta Hav said:


> Has anyone else noticed that Lansing's record since 2015, when Clinkscales became AD is 86-92?
> 
> If you're in charge of performance, and you have to report to be people above you, how do justify keeping that low performing employee on?



Agree...   Just LOOK at how Lansing stacks up to ISU peers???

Women's Basketball --   Hall         21-56        (.273)
Football                     --  Mallory   12-22         (.353)
Women's Soccer        --  Hanley    23-42-9     (.372)
Men's Basketball        -- Lansing    86-92        (.483)
Baseball                     -- Hannahs   177-125    (.586)


REALLY makes one wonder WHAT Clinkscales is tracking...


Great Analysis "Mr. Cartman"


----------



## Sycamorefan96

You might want to ask the old dingbat Curtis what she is tracking instead. It sounds like she is the bigger problem here.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamorefan96 said:


> You might want to ask the old dingbat Curtis what she is tracking instead. It sounds like she is the bigger problem here.



Odds are she's had to balance the mission of the university (education, enlightenment, research, public service) with the ancillary/periphery (athletics, community relations)


----------



## CoachShipp

tennessee said:


> Reading The Athletic piece for the first time now. And, yeah, candid is an understatement.


Can you give us some insights to what Lansing said in the article that would be so offensive or factually dubious?


----------



## tennessee

CoachShipp said:


> Can you give us some insights to what Lansing said in the article that would be so offensive or factually dubious?


I wouldn’t say anything was factually incorrect- just not something you usually say about your boss or your employer.


> Some days, head basketball coach Greg Lansing walks into the Indiana State coaches’ office at the Hulman Center and sees feces.
> 
> “I’ve seen raccoon shit, bat shit and mouse turds,” he says, sitting in the same office the day before the Sycamores’ Jan. 25 game against Bradley.
> 
> What he’s saying, somewhat indelicately, is that the 47-year-old Hulman Center is very much under construction. The dust is so bad, the team wet-mops the floor before every game and practice. Lansing said he’s brought recruits in and had them wear hardhats. The $50 million renovation is supposed to be finished in time for the start of next season. “Progress, they tell me,” he says sarcastically. It can’t come quickly enough.
> 
> “One day, the arena people threw down some of these mice-killing things where they stick to ‘em,” Lansing says. “I come over one morning, there’s like five mice in these things, so I took ‘em and put ‘em in the hallway.”





> There also is this issue, and it’s not a small one: Lansing used to have a rolling five-year contract, but athletic director Sherard Clinkscales, who is in his fourth year, stopped it when he arrived. As a result, next season will be the final year of his contract. It’s not a comfortable place to be in for Lansing.
> 
> “If they had the money, they would have bought me out three years ago,” Lansing said. “Now, he (Clinkscales) is finding out how tough the job is and what you’re up against. We’ve had success and we’re going to be good again. We’re starting two freshmen and a sophomore and have another freshman getting minutes off the bench.
> 
> “Hopefully this year or next year, I can get an extension because everybody is using that against us in recruiting. I wasn’t happy about it (the cessation of the five-year rolling contract), but we weren’t winning enough for me to bitch about i


----------



## pbutler218

Does anyone even know for sure Lansing won't be back? I  recall Clinkscales saying it wouldn't be discussed until AFTER the season.  I'm not one to speculate just because some want-to-be sports reporter said it. WHO WAS HIS SOURCE?


----------



## TreeTop

No one knows for sure.


----------



## CoachShipp

HUGE thanks to tennessee for the Lansing quotes.

And great point....who the SOURCES are is a big question....sources claiming Lansing is effectively gone, sources claiming that the Doyel article is having an impact with the "powers that be".


----------



## tennessee

pbutler218 said:


> Does anyone even know for sure Lansing won't be back? I  recall Clinkscales saying it wouldn't be discussed until AFTER the season.  I'm not one to speculate just because some want-to-be sports reporter said it. WHO WAS HIS SOURCE?


Two things: 

1) Jeff Goodman is as reputable a college reporter as there is. He’s not a “want-to-be” by any stretch of the imagination.
2) In the college game, you don’t let a coach’s contract expire unless you know you aren’t bringing him back, simply because you know it damages him so badly in recruiting.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Look, I've never been a Lansing "Hater".  He's had some nice moments.  No doubt the basement level budget and other factors have hurt him/ISU basketball.  He has led a clean program and presents I think a good image for the program.  He schedules well and recruits well given the limitations.
My issues with Lansing have been about actual coaching, especially things that reoccur over and over again even as different players come and go. We've discussed these way too many times.
But I interacted with someone in Terre Haute a couple weeks ago and they made a couple good points:  He does seemed to have actually improved his coaching -- less rigid, better at in-game strategy, fewer weird substitutions, etc.  Actually has played some real zone, played a true pressing, frantic, lets try to steal the ball defense --- and not just at the end of game where we're behind and really just trying to foul.
I think this guy had a point.
A few weeks ago this appeared to be slam-dunk ......end of contract, end of coaching at ISU.  Winning record last year (although another blow out ending) with some really good young players ???? Well, that clouded the water somewhat.  Some ups and downs this year, but with all the pandemic crap plus a very nice winning streak (10-2 ?) last part of the season......hard not to see how this is not so cut and dried.  Decision makers now have a tougher question (and each of us would have the same problem if we were truly in that position) -- is Greg Lansing truly a better coach ?  If so he probably does deserve a 2-3 year extension.  If this is just a short pop and there is no fundamental change in his coaching ability then change should occur.  
Hard to know which it is ?
If we play well against Loyola today, but get beat ......well still not clearcut, but might lean toward retention.  
If we win today you probably have to retain him ---- win tomorrow and Lansing needs that retention for sure.
Get blown out today ???  Team appears to "give up"  --- probably a slam dunk back to lets move on to a new coach.
By 5:00 today ......or certainly 5:00 tomorrow we'll know.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> Look, I've never been a Lansing "Hater".  He's had some nice moments.  No doubt the basement level budget and other factors have hurt him/ISU basketball.  He has led a clean program and presents I think a good image for the program.  He schedules well and recruits well given the limitations.
> My issues with Lansing have been about actual coaching, especially things that reoccur over and over again even as different players come and go. We've discussed these way too many times.
> But I interacted with someone in Terre Haute a couple weeks ago and they made a couple good points:  He does seemed to have actually improved his coaching -- less rigid, better at in-game strategy, fewer weird substitutions, etc.  Actually has played some real zone, played a true pressing, frantic, lets try to steal the ball defense --- and not just at the end of game where we're behind and really just trying to foul.
> I think this guy had a point.
> A few weeks ago this appeared to be slam-dunk ......end of contract, end of coaching at ISU.  Winning record last year (although another blow out ending) with some really good young players ???? Well, that clouded the water somewhat.  Some ups and downs this year, but with all the pandemic crap plus a very nice winning streak (10-2 ?) last part of the season......hard not to see how this is not so cut and dried.  Decision makers now have a tougher question (and each of us would have the same problem if we were truly in that position) -- is Greg Lansing truly a better coach ?  If so he probably does deserve a 2-3 year extension.  If this is just a short pop and there is no fundamental change in his coaching ability then change should occur.
> Hard to know which it is ?
> If we play well against Loyola today, but get beat ......well still not clearcut, but might lean toward retention.
> If we win today you probably have to retain him ---- win tomorrow and Lansing needs that retention for sure.
> Get blown out today ???  Team appears to "give up"  --- probably a slam dunk back to lets move on to a new coach.
> By 5:00 today ......or certainly 5:00 tomorrow we'll know.



Indiana State is on no timetable to announce anything to be quite honest. Lansing's contract expires at the end of the month so what you can likely expect is a press release in the middle of the week towards the end of a business day much like Eastern Illinois did announcing their coach would not be extended.

I'm sure Clink is or already has been working the phones. The bigger hurry is identifying and hiring his replacement to start with re-recruiting players and then start assessment and recruiting going forward.


----------



## sycamore tuff

The announcements need to be made the same day (GL won’t be returning, new coach is .......).


----------



## TreeTop

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1368323866620289030


----------



## Bluethunder

What I’ve always found strange about this situation is the timing of it. Indiana State started this fundraising campaign they are currently in the middle of because they said they were hurting financially due to Covid, etc. would think if they are truly hurting that bad this would seem to be the worst time to try and make a big change like this.

Seems like the more financially sensible decision would be to roll the contract over and run it back with no raises instead of going out and trying to either A) hire a coach on the cheap or B) bringing in a new staff with an even larger financial commitment to them than what you have to the current staff.  

Both seem like bad options in the current climate.

I guess they are probably worried Lansing might do well enough to not be able to get rid of him.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bluethunder said:


> What I’ve always found strange about this situation is the timing of it. Indiana State started this fundraising campaign they are currently in the middle of because they said they were hurting financially due to Covid, etc. would think if they are truly hurting that bad this would seem to be the worst time to try and make a big change like this.
> 
> Seems like the more financially sensible decision would be to roll the contract over and run it back with no raises instead of going out and trying to either A) hire a coach on the cheap or B) bringing in a new staff with an even larger financial commitment to them than what you have to the current staff.
> 
> Both seem like bad options in the current climate.
> 
> I guess they are probably worried Lansing might do well enough to not be able to get rid of him.



If the Varsity Club was running a fundraising campaign, your points could be valid but any campaign to raise funds for the University...   seems a bit of a stretch


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

4Q_iu said:


> that's one....  and the MBB rivalry is virtually non-existent as we lead the series 90-36.  The football series is close enough to make it a "big game"
> The rest?
> 
> And the OVC has "football issues" as well, Belmont... no football;  SIU-Edwardsville...   no football;   Morehead St...   Pioneer Football
> 
> As for ill st regarding SIU or Bradley...
> 
> UK doesn't consider U'Louisville a rivalry...   U.Texas doesn't consider Tx A&M a rivalry    at times Gloomington hasn't considered that school in West Lafayette a rivalry


Well you’re just flat out wrong about UK not seeing UL as a rivalry and 1000% wrong between UT/A&M


----------



## Bluethunder

4Q_iu said:


> If the Varsity Club was running a fundraising campaign, your points could be valid but any campaign to raise funds for the University...   seems a bit of a stretch


But isn’t the “Step Up” campaign solely to raise funds for athletics?  If so it’s kind of strange to say you need more funding due to the pandemic and then turn around and hire someone for more money than their replacement.  You wouldn’t do that in an administrative position like asst AD so why would it make sense to hire a new coach for more money if you are claiming to be so tapped out?


----------



## Bluethunder

If Indiana doesn’t consider Purdue a rival its probably because they haven’t been competitive in years. Most teams in a rivalry are competitive and IU/Purdue hasn’t been for several years.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bluethunder said:


> But isn’t the “Step Up” campaign solely to raise funds for athletics?  If so it’s kind of strange to say you need more funding due to the pandemic and then turn around and hire someone for more money than their replacement.  You wouldn’t do that in an administrative position like asst AD so why would it make sense to hire a new coach for more money if you are claiming to be so tapped out?



Hasn't Step Up ended?

I have heard little to nothing about it (but that's become the norm for ISU campaigns I believe)

I know ISU athletics did well during Give To Blue Day this week...

Plus it seems like the University is only interested in raising $$ for football

I'll have to look up Step Up -- again, don't think i've received anything on the topic


----------



## 4Q_iu

SycamoreinTexas said:


> Well you’re just flat out wrong about UK not seeing UL as a rivalry and 1000% wrong between UT/A&M



I'll tell you what my friend...  EVERY UT alum I know, have worked with considers Oklahoma their RIVAL.   
Every A&M alum i've met considers Texas their rival

UK... most will say that reform school in gloomington to be a rival, as well as the peer reform schools in Chapel Hill and Durham

UL fans... they;ll say Kentucky is their rival


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bluethunder said:


> If Indiana doesn’t consider Purdue a rival its probably because they haven’t been competitive in years. Most teams in a rivalry are competitive and IU/Purdue hasn’t been for several years.



know PLENTY of gloomington fans that claim kentucky is their rival, of course they make this claim while wearing a irish football jacket or cap or sweatshirt


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## SycamoreinTexas

4Q_iu said:


> I'll tell you what my friend...  EVERY UT alum I know, have worked with considers Oklahoma their RIVAL.
> Every A&M alum i've met considers Texas their rival
> 
> UK... most will say that reform school in gloomington to be a rival, as well as the peer reform schools in Chapel Hill and Durham
> 
> UL fans... they;ll say Kentucky is their rival


UT fans are still butt hurt A&M left for the SEC


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## 4Q_iu

SycamoreinTexas said:


> UT fans are still butt hurt A&M left for the SEC


 
Meh... I believe there were more A&M fans upset at the move, especially because they wouldn't be facing the Hippie Shorthorns...


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## WOZ

When is the next Board of Trustees meeting?  Don’t they have to approve the hiring of a new coach?
And if GL is retained, don’t they have to approve any contract extension?


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## Bluethunder

That’s how news got out that coach Waltman wasnt coming back. They discussed it at a trustees meeting and anyone could read it in the minutes.


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