# So who is coming back and who's leaving



## EvilleSycamore

Now that the season is done, I am wondering who we think will be not here next year or should i say who will not be here? Thanks!


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## TreeTop

EvilleSycamore said:


> Now that the season is done, I am wondering who we think will be not here next year or should i say who will not be here? Thanks!


My only guess is that I would find it hard to believe that a former PAC-12 player who barely played at all in the MVC would return.


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## Jason Svoboda

2022-2023 Eligibility Chart
					

Senior Eligibility (6) G Cooper Neese G Cameron Henry G Trenton Gibson F Courvoisier McCauley F Kailex Stephens C Cade McKnight  Junior Eligibility (2) G Zach Hobbs G Xavier Bledson  Sophomore Eligiblity (3) G Julian Larry G Cameron Crawford F Jayson Kent G Masen Miller !  Freshman Eligiblity...



					sycamorepride.com
				




Regardless of names, I will also say they need to balance the classes so they can recruit evenly. Having a glut of 6 guys with sophomore eligibility is not a good thing so at least one scholarship needs to be found there.  Unless the school is letting him go over the 13 limit with a waiver of some sort, we have to cut one just to be square. 

I think the staff probably needs to find another two, maybe three, if we're being honest with what we watched this year. We need a PG that can handle the ball in the worst way, we need another shooter and I'd also like a frontcourt guy that can play both the 4/5 and bang down low, offensive rebound, and defend the post.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

Just my thoughts, no inside knowledge, I think we see 4-5 departures.  Hittle, Tucker & Peterson the most likely with Key being included as a departure. 
We needed better play at the 5 and since JS didn’t try to develop Hittle and Tucker, I have to believe the writing is on the wall.  Same with Peterson, JS obviously didn’t feel he could help with our lack of ball handling and burned his redshirt without giving him quality minutes (I know playing him @ UNI felt like a must).

I’m hoping he brings Crawford back because I love his athleticism, length and shooting potential.  JS said earlier this year, Cam would have redshirted if Key would have played.   I think he could develop into a Coupet-type player from SIU.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> 2022-2023 Eligibility Chart
> 
> 
> Senior Eligibility (6) G Cooper Neese G Cameron Henry G Trenton Gibson F Courvoisier McCauley F Kailex Stephens C Cade McKnight  Junior Eligibility (2) G Zach Hobbs G Xavier Bledson  Sophomore Eligiblity (3) G Julian Larry G Cameron Crawford F Jayson Kent G Masen Miller !  Freshman Eligiblity...
> 
> 
> 
> sycamorepride.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of names, I will also say they need to balance the classes so they can recruit evenly. Having a glut of 6 guys with sophomore eligibility is not a good thing so at least one scholarship needs to be found there.  Unless the school is letting him go over the 13 limit with a waiver of some sort, we have to cut one just to be square.
> 
> I think the staff probably needs to find another two, maybe three, if we're being honest with what we watched this year. We need a PG that can handle the ball in the worst way, we need another shooter and I'd also like a frontcourt guy that can play both the 4/5 and bang down low, offensive rebound, and defend the post.


Why do we need a PG when we have Larry, Peterson and Thomas?


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## Bluethunder

Thomas is not a PG. Peterson couldn’t even get into games that were blowouts before our walk-on (should tell you where he stood in the HCJS mind). Out of the 3 Larry is the best option but he can’t be depended on to run the point all season long as he also draws the other teams best player on the defensive end. Even if he is the starter we will need another quality player for the position.


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## sycamorebacker

Bluethunder said:


> Thomas is not a PG. Peterson couldn’t even get into games that were blowouts before our walk-on (should tell you where he stood in the HCJS mind). Out of the 3 Larry is the best option but he can’t be depended on to run the point all season long as he also draws the other teams best player on the defensive end. Even if he is the starter we will need another quality player for the position.


I think Thomas and Peterson can either one play PG.  I guess we'll just have to see.  
As far as Peterson not playing.  He and Crawford should have been playing.  Either could have outplayed some of the guys that were on the floor.  But, again, we'll see.  I just hope our two talented FR do not give up and leave.


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## sycamorebacker

Well, to say Rob Martin is a ball handling PG is an understatement.  The only question is will he be able to get on the floor next year.  
And if he is on the floor, do we have anybody else that will play defense to replace Larry.  
Even as a poor shooting team, if we had just tried to rebound and play D and value the ball this year our record would have been much better.  
In my mind, we need size and shooting but we also need IQ and effort.  We do have some decent athletes.  And our team offense was not good.  What happened to the team that played Old Dominion?


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## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> 2022-2023 Eligibility Chart
> 
> 
> Senior Eligibility (6) G Cooper Neese G Cameron Henry G Trenton Gibson F Courvoisier McCauley F Kailex Stephens C Cade McKnight  Junior Eligibility (2) G Zach Hobbs G Xavier Bledson  Sophomore Eligiblity (3) G Julian Larry G Cameron Crawford F Jayson Kent G Masen Miller !  Freshman Eligiblity...
> 
> 
> 
> sycamorepride.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the staff probably needs to find another two, maybe three, if we're being honest with what we watched this year. We need a PG that can handle the ball in the worst way, we need another shooter and I'd also like a frontcourt guy that can play both the 4/5 and bang down low, offensive rebound, and defend the post.



This reads like a 5-YOs Dear Santa wish list

We'll have to see if the fat ol' elf is generous in 2022


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## jben

Question......Did Peterson play enough to burn a year?????  What are the maximum playing time for burning a year????
Before his injury and health issues, I thought JS thought highly of him.


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## sycamorebacker

jben said:


> Question......Did Peterson play enough to burn a year?????  What are the maximum playing time for burning a year????
> Before his injury and health issues, I thought JS thought highly of him.


Last time I checked it was any time on the floor.  Not sure if that's correct now.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> 2022-2023 Eligibility Chart
> 
> 
> Senior Eligibility (6) G Cooper Neese G Cameron Henry G Trenton Gibson F Courvoisier McCauley F Kailex Stephens C Cade McKnight  Junior Eligibility (2) G Zach Hobbs G Xavier Bledson  Sophomore Eligiblity (3) G Julian Larry G Cameron Crawford F Jayson Kent G Masen Miller !  Freshman Eligiblity...
> 
> 
> 
> sycamorepride.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a frontcourt guy that can play both the 4/5 and bang down low, offensive rebound, and defend the post.


I've watched Avila play on YouTube and I can't tell if he is a banger.  He plays the whole game and I think he is supposed to avoid fouls.  One game I noticed that he stepped up his play in the 4th quarter.


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## 4Q_iu

jben said:


> Question......Did Peterson play enough to burn a year?????  What are the maximum playing time for burning a year????
> Before his injury and health issues, I thought JS thought highly of him.



he's credited with 35 minutes over 4 games

is that under the max allowable for RS years?


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## treeman

my prediction:

Tucker - gone

Key - gone

Hittle, Peterson, Crawford, Thomas - pick 1 maybe 2


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## jturner38

treeman said:


> my prediction:
> 
> Tucker - gone
> 
> Key - gone
> 
> Hittle, Peterson, Crawford, Thomas - pick 1 maybe 2


Think Crawford and Peterson stay. Thomas and Hittle maybe gone


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## BrokerZ

We don’t really have a point guard on the team. If we’re being technical, Cam Henry was our most used PG this year. Out of our most commonly used lineups, Henry was the one who facilitated the offense the most.

I don’t know if that was out of design or necessity, but I’m thinking more out of necessity. We just need more guys who can handle the ball proficiently. Just about everyone on the team is a below-average or worse ball handler.

Going off of pure turnover rate, Micah is the only player on the roster I would say is a PG, but his play drastically fell as the season went on. I do expect him to be much better next year, though.


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## sycamorebacker

BrokerZ said:


> We don’t really have a point guard on the team. If we’re being technical, Cam Henry was our most used PG this year. Out of our most commonly used lineups, Henry was the one who facilitated the offense the most.
> 
> I don’t know if that was out of design or necessity, but I’m thinking more out of necessity. We just need more guys who can handle the ball proficiently. Just about everyone on the team is a below-average or worse ball handler.
> 
> Going off of pure turnover rate, Micah is the only player on the roster I would say is a PG, but his play drastically fell as the season went on. I do expect him to be much better next year, though.


In conference play, Thomas and Larry were the only players with more assists than TO's.  Larry was far and away the best.  Henry was the facilitator a lot, though.  
But defensively, we did have the three guys that are quick enough to play the 1.  

Too bad everyone can't improve their handle like DB did.  We need more layups and less jump shots.


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## BrokerZ

sycamorebacker said:


> In conference play, Thomas and Larry were the only players with more assists than TO's.  Larry was far and away the best.  Henry was the facilitator a lot, though.
> But defensively, we did have the three guys that are quick enough to play the 1.
> 
> Too bad everyone can't improve their handle like DB did.  We need more layups and less jump shots.


You have to factor in usage when evaluating A/TO. I won’t bore you with the details, but let’s just agree that nobody on the team was any good at it. Bledson had the most positive assist numbers, but he also lead the team in TO%…by a lot.


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## sycamorebacker

I thought all year that Larry was too conservative with his passes.  He really didn't have enough TO's.  You have to take chances sometimes to generate shots. It's like a pitcher throwing too many strikes, which can happen in softball.  

Coach seemed to want Henry start the offense.  If he can improve his decision-making he has the talent to do that well.

Martin is just what the doctor ordered for playmaking.  His height does limit him, though.  That's why we got him.


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## sycamorebacker

BrokerZ said:


> You have to factor in usage when evaluating A/TO. I won’t bore you with the details, but let’s just agree that nobody on the team was any good at it. Bledson had the most positive assist numbers, but he also lead the team in TO%…by a lot.


By the way, I love details and statistics.  That was my job for 30 years.


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## CardLake49

4Q_iu said:


> he's credited with 35 minutes over 4 games
> 
> is that under the max allowable for RS years?


Pretty sure Sycamorebacker is correct, you play 1 second of ncaa hoops and you can't redshirt. The 4 game rule only pertains to football. Have no clue why a dude can play a third of a football season and still get a redshirt, while a guy or girl can't play in a few games so their coach can evaluate them in a game. Doesn't make sense to me at all.


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## 4Q_iu

CardLake49 said:


> Pretty sure Sycamorebacker is correct, you play 1 second of ncaa hoops and you can't redshirt. The 4 game rule only pertains to football. Have no clue why a dude can play a third of a football season and still get a redshirt, while a guy or girl can't play in a few games so their coach can evaluate them in a game. Doesn't make sense to me at all.



Thanks -- a redshirt rule specifically for football is, would be dumb a f*ck but we are discussing an ncaa "rule"

at one time, pretty sure it was a certain percentage of games/game time but that likely allowed too many smaller schools a 'disadvantage'

logic would be a standard number of games that an athlete could participate or be eligible to participate and it could before/by a certain date

but there's no logic in the ncaa


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## BankShot

Wouldn't Peterson qualify as a "Medical RS" due to his early season injury? Did he exceed the 30% marker?









						Quimari Peterson suffers setback, to have role in Indiana State rotation
					

Indiana State coach Josh Schertz said Times’ 2021 Boys Basketball Player of the Year Quimari Peterson suffered an injury and was progressing to have a rotational role as a true




					www.nwitimes.com
				




***According to the Senior Associate Athletic Director for Compliance, Scott Young, “the NCAA has two requirements for a medical redshirt; *the injury must have occurred in the *_first half _*of the season, and the athlete must have competed in less than 30 percent of the season*.Jan 18, 2022


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## TreeTop

Is this link the "official transfer portal"? Or is 247sports.com just a third party? And if just a third party, would someone be able to post a link to the official portal?









						2022 College Basketball Transfer Portal
					

2022 College Basketball Transfer Portal




					247sports.com


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## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> Is this link the "official transfer portal"? Or is 247sports.com just a third party? And if just a third party, would someone be able to post a link to the official portal?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2022 College Basketball Transfer Portal
> 
> 
> 2022 College Basketball Transfer Portal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 247sports.com



There is no official public facing transfer portal. 247 is a recruiting website. 

I find VerbalCommits transfer list to be the most complete. They keep it for both D1 and D2:






						Verbal Commits | D1 Players Transferring in 2022
					

Verbal Commits - D1 Players Transferring in 2022




					www.verbalcommits.com
				







__





						Verbal Commits | D2 Players Transferring in 2022
					

Verbal Commits - D2 Players Transferring in 2022




					www.verbalcommits.com


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## TreeTop

Thanks Jason!


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## TreeTop

I'm legitimately surprised that no players (other than Key) have hit the portal yet. Maybe some are waiting for the tourney to begin or end? Maybe everyone is coming back?


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## CardLake49

TreeTop said:


> I'm legitimately surprised that no players (other than Key) have hit the portal yet. Maybe some are waiting for the tourney to begin or end? Maybe everyone is coming back?


All Wonka references are good references. Well done.


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## sycamorebacker

I assume in the next few weeks Coach will have individual meetings where he will cut or invite back and explain where he thinks they fit in. 
He can't cut yet.  He needs all of the their bodies for practice.


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## BankShot

Saw this on the Portal...still a "blooming flower," kinda like that stud @ Morehed State. Also, not too far from JS's old recruiting turf:





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						Verbal Commits | Tariq Balogun Player Profile, Highlights, Offers, Twitter
					

Verbal Commits - Tariq Balogun Player Profile: Rankings, Stars, Video Highlights, Offers, Tweets, Height, Weight, High School, Position, Hometown




					www.verbalcommits.com
				








__





						Tariq Balogun - Men's Basketball - Eastern Kentucky University Athletics
					

Tariq Balogun (13) Forward  - AS A SOPHOMORE IN 2021-22 Saw action in 22 games and started 10 times … averaged 4.0 points, 2.0 rebounds and 1.4 blocks while connecting




					ekusports.com


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## SycamoreRedbird

Here's my prediction on whose leaving: Key, Neese , Henry(pro ball in Europe), Tucker and Wilbar or Hittle...i wish all could stay and grow with the team...Truth is that doesnt always happen


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## TreeTop

SycamoreRedbird said:


> Here's my prediction on whose leaving: Key, Neese...


Video from Feb 8th...


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## SycamoreStateofMind

I’d say you will be looking at something like this once all is said and done… Key - out. Hittle - out. Peterson - out. Tucker out.

Wilbar - close. Henry - close.

It’a tough enough to replace four players - a complete roster overhaul would be pretty difficult to accomplish. Even though Wilbar and Henry got a lot of run I wouldn’t assume either are safe. Henry because of his inability to grasp the mental aspect of D1 college athletics and Wilbar because of his production.

In a perfect world you get Henry to understand his mental is really the only thing standing in his way from being a really good player at this level. The problem is he was just asked to do way way to much this season once Key went down.


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I’d say you will be looking at something like this once all is said and done… Key - out. Hittle - out. Peterson - out. Tucker out.
> 
> Wilbar - close. Henry - close.
> 
> It’a tough enough to replace four players - a complete roster overhaul would be pretty difficult to accomplish. Even though Wilbar and Henry got a lot of run I wouldn’t assume either are safe. Henry because of his inability to grasp the mental aspect of D1 college athletics and Wilbar because of his production.
> 
> In a perfect world you get Henry to understand his mental is really the only thing standing in his way from being a really good player at this level. The problem is he was just asked to do way way to much this season once Key went down.



I think 4 is probably the most you want to flip before you run the risk of repeating the same issues from this year. Not sure how you put a valuation on it, but system continuity versus something similar to baseball's WAR rating.

I don't include Key since I never had him on the scholarship chart for next year. Right now we're one scholarship over with Martin so to bring in 4 additional, that means 5 would have to go if we're not including Avila and Martin in the overhaul numbers.


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## sycamorebacker

I think some of you are getting carried away.  I would encourage Tucker to leave.  I'm hopeful that  Neese and  Henry can use their skills  and don't try to play beyond their abilities.  I would beg Crawford and Peterson to stay.  I'm in the middle on Wilbar, Bledson and Hittle.  I don't push young players away that have some talent.  We have had zillions of FR here that redshirted or averaged just a few points as FR and developed into good players for us. 
An example is Peterson, who is way ahead of Devonte Brown or Harry Marshal.  I would say he is closer to Gabe Moore or Brenton Scott. 
You have to bring in good players and develop them.  FR are kids that have experience playing against kids.  They will become men.

I'm convinced that signing Martin and Avila puts us on the right track talent-wise.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> I think some of you are getting carried away.  I would encourage Tucker to leave.  I'm hopeful that  Neese and  Henry can use their skills  and don't try to play beyond their abilities.  I would beg Crawford and Peterson to stay.  I'm in the middle on Wilbar, Bledson and Hittle.  I don't push young players away that have some talent.  We have had zillions of FR here that redshirted or averaged just a few points as FR and developed into good players for us.
> An example is Peterson, who is way ahead of Devonte Brown or Harry Marshal.  I would say he is closer to Gabe Moore or Brenton Scott.
> You have to bring in good players and develop them.  FR are kids that have experience playing against kids.  They will become men.
> 
> I'm convinced that signing Martin and Avila puts us on the right track talent-wise.



The staff is ACTIVELY recruiting 2022 kids still and we're already 1 over. Seems like they may feel differently.


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## BankShot

Do you recall this kid from Fishers a couple years ago? 





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						Verbal Commits | Isaac Farah Player Profile, Highlights, Offers, Twitter
					

Verbal Commits - Isaac Farah Player Profile: Rankings, Stars, Video Highlights, Offers, Tweets, Height, Weight, High School, Position, Hometown




					www.verbalcommits.com
				








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						Men's Basketball | Roster | Official Site of East Tennessee State Athletics
					

Official Site of East Tennessee State Athletics




					www.etsubucs.com


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## Jason Svoboda

I think I caught him as a freshman or sophomore and he didn't do much. I can't recall seeing him in AAU.


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## CardLake49

Henry leaving would be really bad news. Surely he isn't getting looks from greener grass is he? I don't see us replacing him with his skill set on the transfer market. More importantly that would signal to me that the notion that guys love coach so much may not be all that its cracked up to be.


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## BankShot

Jason Svoboda said:


> I think I caught him as a freshman or sophomore and he didn't do much. I can't recall seeing him in AAU.


I guess he played a yr. @ Charlotte, NC Prep School before going to ETSU. Now 6'9"...


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> The staff is ACTIVELY recruiting 2022 kids still and we're already 1 over. Seems like they may feel differently.


I don't see any difference.


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## sycamorebacker

BS brought this up earlier.  Does Peterson qualify for a medical redshirt?  If he did redshirt do we ever find out?


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## bigsportsfan

TreeTop said:


> Video from Feb 8th...


Yeah Neese got engaged in January to a Cloverdale girl on our track team. Not going anywhere.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> I think some of you are getting carried away.  I would encourage Tucker to leave.  I'm hopeful that  Neese and  Henry can use their skills  and don't try to play beyond their abilities.  I would beg Crawford and Peterson to stay.  I'm in the middle on Wilbar, Bledson and Hittle.  I don't push young players away that have some talent.  We have had zillions of FR here that redshirted or averaged just a few points as FR and developed into good players for us.
> An example is Peterson, who is way ahead of Devonte Brown or Harry Marshal.  I would say he is closer to Gabe Moore or Brenton Scott.
> You have to bring in good players and develop them.  FR are kids that have experience playing against kids.  They will become men.
> 
> I'm convinced that signing Martin and Avila puts us on the right track talent-wise.



Nothing is carried away - saying what you think might happen has nothing to do with what you want to happen. It’s literally just projecting rather than anything else.

If I literally wanted to get “carried away” as you say then I’d part ways with Larry as well since he’s the most limited offensive player in D1 hoops history. So that’s carried away - the other was literally projecting.

I couldn’t care less what he does enough to be “carried away”… If it was me I’d get rid of Larry, Wilbar and Henry. I’d probably keep everyone else - so how is that for being different from the norm.


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## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Nothing is carried away - saying what you think might happen has nothing to do with what you want to happen. It’s literally just projecting rather than anything else.
> 
> If I literally wanted to get “carried away” as you say then I’d part ways with Larry as well since he’s the most limited offensive player in D1 hoops history. So that’s carried away - the other was literally projecting.
> 
> I couldn’t care less what he does enough to be “carried away”… If it was me I’d get rid of Larry, Wilbar and Henry. I’d probably keep everyone else - so how is that for being different from the norm.


If you cut Larry you would qualify for the stupidest coach in D1 hoops history.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> If you cut Larry you would qualify for the stupidest coach in D1 hoops history.



Exactly. Good thing I’ve never had the inclination to make a living in any sport being a coach at this level.

We agree.


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## sycamorebacker

Assuming no effort or attitude problems, my untouchables would be Hobbs, Stephens, Larry, Thomas, Peterson and Crawford.


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## Sycamorefan96

treeman said:


> my prediction:
> 
> Tucker - gone
> 
> Key - gone
> 
> Hittle, Peterson, Crawford, Thomas - pick 1 maybe 2


From this list of players I hope Thomas stays. I don't really know enough about the others to have an opinion, except for Key obviously.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> BS brought this up earlier.  Does Peterson qualify for a medical redshirt?  If he did redshirt do we ever find out?



I honestly don't think it matters. The COVID waiver has royally fucked scholarship management. If I'm Schertz, I'm aging everyone through the next couple years so I can finally get some semblance of class balance. Holding Peterson back means he'd then have two PGs in the same class with another two right above provided Larry and Thomas stays. You can't have 4 PGs that packed in together.


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## meistro

sycamorebacker said:


> I think some of you are getting carried away.  I would encourage Tucker to leave.  I'm hopeful that  Neese and  Henry can use their skills  and don't try to play beyond their abilities.  I would beg Crawford and Peterson to stay.  I'm in the middle on Wilbar, Bledson and Hittle.  I don't push young players away that have some talent.  We have had zillions of FR here that redshirted or averaged just a few points as FR and developed into good players for us.
> An example is Peterson, who is way ahead of Devonte Brown or Harry Marshal.  I would say he is closer to Gabe Moore or Brenton Scott.
> You have to bring in good players and develop them.  FR are kids that have experience playing against kids.  They will become men.
> 
> I'm convinced that signing Martin and Avila puts us on the right track talent-wise.


Why do you think Peterson is better than Brown or Marshall? Not sure how you're judging him, since he only played like 10 minutes all year.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

Jason Svoboda said:


> I honestly don't think it matters. The COVID waiver has royally fucked scholarship management. If I'm Schertz, I'm aging everyone through the next couple years so I can finally get some semblance of class balance. Holding Peterson back means he'd then have two PGs in the same class with another two right above provided Larry and Thomas stays. You can't have 4 PGs that packed in together.



Spot on. It would be shocking to see Peterson AND Thomas back.  With the lack of depth and lack of playing time for Peterson it would make sense to part ways.  Thomas seemed to completely lose interest in the last 10 games or so.  Micah clearly has the talent and could turn into a really good guard in the MVC with 3 years of eligibility left.  Question is: does he want to be here?


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## sycamorebacker

meistro said:


> Why do you think Peterson is better than Brown or Marshall? Not sure how you're judging him, since he only played like 10 minutes all year.


I watched games on youtube (not highlights). He was NW IN POY. He has the complete package as s PG. My only question would be speed and hops. I think he is at least as athletic as Scott and has good PG skills. He can also shoot the three well at the HS distance. 
It’s just my opinion, so take it as that. 
Coach did say he was in the rotation mix, right?


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## CardLake49

sycamorebacker said:


> I watched games on youtube (not highlights). He was NW IN POY. He has the complete package as s PG. My only question would be speed and hops. I think he is at least as athletic as Scott and has good PG skills. He can also shoot the three well at the HS distance.
> It’s just my opinion, so take it as that.
> Coach did say he was in the rotation mix, right?


Coach did say that, which is why i've been wanting to see Peterson, and hoping he stays.


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## bluestreak

Peterson was hurt for a good portion of the preseason and again in the season. I think its premature to think his lack of playing time had anything to do with a lack of talent or JS's judgement of his abilities.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

bluestreak said:


> Peterson was hurt for a good portion of the preseason and again in the season. I think its premature to think his lack of playing time had anything to do with a lack of talent or JS's judgement of his abilities.



So you think he went out and signed Martin because he wants to build his roster with 4 of the 13 scholarships with 3 sophomore and 1 freshman PG’s?  I don’t believe for a second he went out and got Martin with the intention of Peterson, Larry & Micah returning.  At least one of the three aren’t returning…


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## jben

While Peterson may leave, it is my belief that Mr. Thomas will enter the transfer portal.  I have no inside information,
it is just a feeling that he will depart.  As they say....IMO.


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## bluestreak

-


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## bluestreak

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> So you think he went out and signed Martin because he wants to build his roster with 4 of the 13 scholarships with 3 sophomore and 1 freshman PG’s?  I don’t believe for a second he went out and got Martin with the intention of Peterson, Larry & Micah returning.  At least one of the three aren’t returning…


I didn't write anything regarding the other PG's and certainly don't think all of them will return. (A little brushing up on your reading comprehension may be in order) Thomas seems to have mentally checked out the last half of the season and JS stated he had a discussion with Thomas' family over the Christmas break. Would hate to see him go because I think he has a big upside.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

bluestreak said:


> I didn't write anything regarding the other PG's and certainly don't think all of them will return. (A little brushing up on your reading comprehension may be in order) Thomas seems to have mentally checked out the last half of the season and JS stated he had a discussion with Thomas' family over the Christmas break. Would hate to see him go because I think he has a big upside.



It’s not premature to think JS is not confident in Peterson’s abilities.  He was healthy for the second half of the season and we were in dire need of a PG to handle the ball and take the pressure off Coop and Henry.  He never chose to give him the chance even when we had nothing to lose.

I hope this helps comprehend why I believe JS did make a judgement on Q.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

The only way I can see Q returning is if Micah has already made a decision to transfer.


----------



## eagletree

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> It’s not premature to think JS is not confident in Peterson’s abilities.  He was healthy for the second half of the season and we were in dire need of a PG to handle the ball and take the pressure off Coop and Henry.  He never chose to give him the chance even when we had nothing to lose.
> 
> I hope this helps comprehend why I believe JS did make a judgement on Q.


Just watched the Sullivan vs Evansville Bosse regional final. Both teams have a star player worthy of at least interest from ISU. Kid from Sullivan (Kelly) is a dead ringer for Michael Menser. Size is his only drawback. The kid from Bosse is all around talent,


----------



## CardLake49

Randy Kelly plays the same position that has been discussed at length on this thread lately......


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

CardLake49 said:


> Randy Kelly plays the same position that has been discussed at length on this thread lately......



Sign him up!!!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> So you think he went out and signed Martin because he wants to build his roster with 4 of the 13 scholarships with 3 sophomore and 1 freshman PG’s?  I don’t believe for a second he went out and got Martin with the intention of Peterson, Larry & Micah returning.  At least one of the three aren’t returning…


Don’t start talking logically and point out facts… Everyone wants to believe the reason Peterson couldn’t find the floor over one of the worst offensive basketball players in this programs history is because he was hurt and didn’t have time to develop. So just let them believe in fairytales. Don’t crush dreams here!


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> and we were in dire need of a PG


Why?  Larry was playing almost the entire time.  I don't follow your logic AT ALL.  He only needed 8 players and Thomas was the guard.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

sycamorebacker said:


> Why?  Larry was playing almost the entire time.  I don't follow your logic AT ALL.  He only needed 8 players and Thomas was the guard.



Backer, I am a big fan of what Larry brings on the defensive end and think he can develop into a better offensive contributor with three more years of eligibility. However, I can’t help you logic if you watched games this year and viewed Larry as the “offensive floor general.”

This isn’t me being an ass about the three current PG’s, but the fact is we played this year with 3 FRESHMAN PG’s and one of JS first moves was to sign Martin.  I guess it’s hard for some to discuss why.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Backer, I am a big fan of what Larry brings on the defensive end and think he can develop into a better offensive contributor with three more years of eligibility. However, I can’t help you logic if you watched games this year and viewed Larry as the “offensive floor general.”
> 
> This isn’t me being an ass about the three current PG’s, but the fact is we played this year with 3 FRESHMAN PG’s and one of JS first moves was to sign Martin.  I guess it’s hard for some to discuss why.


I see your logic on the signing.  It looked to me like Coach wanted the ball in Henry's hands as the initiator.  He put Larry in the corner out of the way to open the driving lanes for Henry.  That was all dandy as long as Henry made the right decisions.  But I disagree that he "needed" a ball handler such as Peterson.  I think he thought he had what he needed on the floor.  
I think Larry was under-utilized so Henry could handle the ball most of the time.  We'll see if Henry can "adjust" to D1 next year, and that's what I'm going to consider as the problem.  

But if we are going to talk about what this team needed then it's not necessarily the team offense.  We needed more consistent shooting from outside (Neese and Hobbs and Thomas)  and layups (Thomas and Larry).  We needed rebounding and defense (everyone).  We needed more size inside.  

And, for the record, I think Larry was our most consistent player on rebounding and defense. I don't know why SSOM is so down on him.  We had plenty of major problems in rebounding, fouling, defense, you name it.  Besides not being able to make shots, we were beat all over the floor.  And most of that was not Larry's fault.  I thought he had more consistent hustle and productivity than several other players. 
I won't name them but we had deficiencies in shooting by a few players and we had problems with TO's with a few players.  We just need to fix that. I'm hoping some of that was the adjustment to D1.  I don't know what happened to our veteran.


----------



## BlueBleeder

sycamorebacker said:


> I see your logic on the signing.  It looked to me like Coach wanted the ball in Henry's hands as the initiator.  He put Larry in the corner out of the way to open the driving lanes for Henry.  That was all dandy as long as Henry made the right decisions.  But I disagree that he "needed" a ball handler such as Peterson.  I think he thought he had what he needed on the floor.
> I think Larry was under-utilized so Henry could handle the ball most of the time.  We'll see if Henry can "adjust" to D1 next year, and that's what I'm going to consider as the problem.
> 
> But if we are going to talk about what this team needed then it's not necessarily the team offense.  We needed more consistent shooting from outside (Neese and Hobbs and Thomas)  and layups (Thomas and Larry).  We needed rebounding and defense (everyone).  We needed more size inside.
> 
> And, for the record, I think Larry was our most consistent player on rebounding and defense. I don't know why SSOM is so down on him.  We had plenty of major problems in rebounding, fouling, defense, you name it.  Besides not being able to make shots, we were beat all over the floor.  And most of that was not Larry's fault.  I thought he had more consistent hustle and productivity than several other players.
> I won't name them but we had deficiencies in shooting by a few players and we had problems with TO's with a few players.  We just need to fix that. I'm hoping some of that was the adjustment to D1.  I don't know what happened to our veteran.


What happened to our veteran was he went from being 3/4th option to a primary option.  He isn't a great ball handler, not real strong creating off the dribble....although he did get better throughout the season with this, and he shot poorly from 3 point range, most likely because defenses play him like a primary offensive threat.


----------



## BankShot

sycamorebacker said:


> .... I don't know what happened to our veteran.


Heavy minutes took it's toll...he was "ragmuffin" wearing an ISU jersey late season. JS has to find a middle ground (30-32 mpg?), where the cumulative wear doesn't impact player performance as the season winds down.  For a couple week stretch, Neese was avg. OVER 40 min/gm PT because of OT.  What's the word so often used today..."SUSTAINABILITY?"


----------



## SycamoreRedbird

TreeTop said:


> Video from Feb 8th...


If i am correct, this year would be number 6 for Neese...Well if he is staying, lets just start calling him Dr. Neese


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreRedbird said:


> If i am correct, this year would be number 6 for Neese...Well if he is staying, lets just start calling him Dr. Neese


I think it will be 5 1/2.


----------



## jben

Question....who is recruiting Randy Kelley????  Any D1 programs??????


----------



## SycamoreRedbird

sycamorebacker said:


> I think it will be 5 1/2.


I thought he transfer after two weeks at Butler


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreRedbird said:


> I thought he transfer after two weeks at Butler


Something like that.  It's probably closer to 6.  Sorry.

The point being, he's been here a long time with the transfer redshirt year and the covid year.


----------



## Gotta Hav

jben said:


> Question....who is recruiting Randy Kelley????  Any D1 programs??????


I think he committed a few months back to Trinity Christian College.  Wherever that's at.


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreRedbird said:


> If i am correct, this year would be number 6 for Neese...Well if he is staying, lets just start calling him Dr. Neese


Coop must be modeling Iowa's Jordan Bohannon (aka "Bankshot III"), who's "retiring" after this season. Wonder if these oldtimer's are getting Grecian Formula kickbacks?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jordan-bohannon-1.html


----------



## CardLake49

jben said:


> Question....who is recruiting Randy Kelley????  Any D1 programs??????


Highly doubt it. If Gotta Hav is correct about Trinity Christian (have no reason to doubt it, I just don't know) then that's probably about right. Brooks Barnhizer, standout at Lafayette Jeff who has PG size with SG skills is a soph there now. Caleb Swearingen, standout at Northview, just finished his frosh year at Olivet, which is in TCC's conference. Lincoln Hale, standout at Linton and former ISU recruit, just finished his frosh year at Indiana Wesleyan. I've really enjoyed watching Randy (plan to check him out Saturday) and think he's fantastic for Sullivan. But I don't see D1 when I watch him play. And that's not a knock on him. Just my opinion.


----------



## pbutler218

Saw a very interesting tweet stating that half the current team was going to get cut by Coach Schertz. Can't get the tweet to post so it can be readable. Not sure if it's legit. 🤔


----------



## pbutler218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504251297586941956


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Not sure it's a giant leap but that's a brand new account.


----------



## TreeTop

The fact that every one of their tweets begins with “Word on the Street is that…” is annoying and obnoxious beyond all get out.

Word on the street is that Twitter acct has an expiration date.


----------



## treeman

The fact that he lists a "couple of postgame interviews" as his source, leads me to believe they really don't know what they are talking about.


----------



## BlueBleeder

treeman said:


> The fact that he lists a "couple of postgame interviews" as his source, leads me to believe they really don't know what they are talking about.


While i agree with you, i lost track how many times coach said we need more talent.....or if these guys won't/can't do what we need i will go get some who can.


----------



## pbutler218

TreeTop said:


> The fact that every one of their tweets begins with “Word on the Street is that…” is annoying and obnoxious beyond all get out.
> 
> Word on the street is that Twitter acct has an expiration date.


And now there's a tweet about ethics violations within basketball program. Sounds like a bitter parent or a disgruntled Lansing lover trying to cause problems.


----------



## sycamorebacker

pbutler218 said:


> And now there's a tweet about ethics violations within basketball program. Sounds like a bitter parent or a disgruntled Lansing lover trying to cause problems.


I'm a strong believer that scholarships are one year.  When a player selects a level of play, he or she accepts the risk that the level is beyond their ability or later they may decide that they don't want to work hard enough to attain that level.
Free college for a year is not bad compensation.

One of my daughters (and parents) selected a level that was too high.  When she got cut it was traumatic, BUT she did get 2 years of free education which saved us $20,000.


----------



## pbutler218

sycamorebacker said:


> I'm a strong believer that scholarships are one year.  When a player selects a level of play, he or she accepts the risk that the level is beyond their ability or later they may decide that they don't want to work hard enough to attain that level.
> Free college for a year is not bad compensation.


Amen brother. Agreed!!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> And now there's a tweet about ethics violations within basketball program. Sounds like a bitter parent or a disgruntled Lansing lover trying to cause problems.



I'd suggest you ignore that account. Zero link to website, no information on who runs it, no followers. Pretty dangerous slope.


----------



## Huff77

I can neither confirm or deny that tweet, but from the chatter I've heard from students close to people on the team would tilt my meter closer to confirmation.  But then again, my students speak in ignorance and hyperbole most of the time.
How is that for unnecessarily vague?


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> I'd suggest you ignore that account. Zero link to website, no information on who runs it, no followers. Pretty dangerous slope.


I'm guessing pbutler218 is correct.  Someone with an axe to grind.  I love how social media has made it so easy to lob accusations from an anonymous account.  No accountability whatsoever.


----------



## sycamorebacker

And anything the social media "gods" disagree with is misinformation.


----------



## dino

Wonder if he’s wanting to connect with his old coach?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505999863271596037


----------



## TreeTop

dino said:


> Wonder if he’s wanting to connect with his old coach?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505999863271596037


He averaged 20 points a game as a sophomore in Schertz’s system.


----------



## dino

McCauley was a d2 all American as a sophomore. Transferred and played for DePaul for 2 years. Played high school ball in Indianapolis. “Corporate knowledge”.


----------



## bigsportsfan

First after Tyreke:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506321759590662152


----------



## pbutler218

The dominos are starting to fall.


----------



## Bluethunder

I like Nick and I will be the first to say that I felt like he contributed a lot more this season than I expected him to.

At the end of the day he just wasn’t a good fit for a new coach that he didn’t sign up to play for. He signed up to play for Lansing and his system and instead was playing for Schertz and an entirely different system.

I wish him all the best moving forward.


----------



## dino

Wilbar and Peterson have entered the portal.


----------



## treeman

Not too surprised by Peterson. Wilbar kind of strikes me as odd based on the fact that he was a 6'11'' freshman that got a lot of minutes and also a Schertz guy. Maybe Schertz is cleaning house? Maybe Wilbar wants something different? But regardless, good luck to both of them on their future endeavors


----------



## BlueBleeder

Well.....we have zero size currently on the roster.  Our current big man is 6'7" Kailex Stevens.  Will be interesting to see how we piece the new roster together.


----------



## pbutler218

Wouldn't be at all surprised if Tucker is next. He rarely played and had trouble catching passes and finishing. We definitely need some bigs!! I'm sure our coaches are working on it. The portal is FULL of players.


----------



## Huff77

Get me Fardaws Aimaq stat!  If Kentucky lands that dude they will be scary.


----------



## bluestreak

Players who are looking for "greener pastures" may be in for a rude surprise when they realize they are now in competition with hundreds of other transfers AND JC players AND high school recruits.


----------



## hans1950

No real surprises yet. Once Peterson was healthy and didn't play at all you had to figure. Wilbar started many games but only got 5 minutes never to see the floor again.


----------



## meistro

bluestreak said:


> Players who are looking for "greener pastures" may be in for a rude surprise when they realize they are now in competition with hundreds of other transfers AND JC players AND high school recruits.


You know what they say, be careful what you wish for.


----------



## BankShot

JS doing some "Spring House Cleaning"...surely he knows  what works in his system and what doesn't after last season. Let's just hope that he has the recruiting savvy to UPGRADE, using Div I modeling.


----------



## EvilleSycamore

I am ok with a couple players going to the portal. but if we see another season of 5, 6, 7, or 8 players like last year this concerns me.  I understand the portal is wrecking  havoc on college basketball, but i look at other programs and see a small amount of consistency with fewer numbers leaving.  I hope this is due to Shertz  only in his second year and he doesn't have "his team".  As far as big men we are going have to dig deep into the portal. Bigs with any talent that would give ISU a look are pretty thin in this portal, and Avila next year i think will have a big learning curve jumping to Valley ball with the likes of the new teams coming in and the current teams at the top of the Valley.  This on top of how college basketball is transitioning to a more penetrate and shoot pro style, we need a consistent big man who is a proven rebounder for second chances as everybody else utilizes.  I see more holes than sure things for next years roster.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

EvilleSycamore said:


> I am ok with a couple players going to the portal. but if we see another season of 5, 6, 7, or 8 players like last year this concerns me.  I understand the portal is wrecking  havoc on college basketball, but i look at other programs and see a small amount of consistency with fewer numbers leaving.  I hope this is due to Shertz  only in his second year and he doesn't have "his team".  As far as big men we are going have to dig deep into the portal. Bigs with any talent that would give ISU a look are pretty thin in this portal, and Avila next year i think will have a big learning curve jumping to Valley ball with the likes of the new teams coming in and the current teams at the top of the Valley.  This on top of how college basketball is transitioning to a more penetrate and shoot pro style, we need a consistent big man who is a proven rebounder for second chances as everybody else utilizes.  I see more holes than sure things for next years roster.



You're going to see that this year most likely.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> You're going to see that this year most likely.


I disagree.  I think this is it.  With Martin and Avila and 2 more, I think we are all set.  
Already, Martin and Avila bring a lot of talent to our team, and look out for Stephens and Crawford.


----------



## EvilleSycamore

sycamorebacker said:


> I disagree.  I think this is it.  With Martin and Avila and 2 more, I think we are all set.
> Already, Martin and Avila bring a lot of talent to our team, and look out for Stephens and Crawford.


Do you know what 6' 10" KJ Williams (if he doesn't go pro) of Murray State or 6'11" Musyzynski of Bellmont, or a few others in the league are going to do to any big man on our roster?  We must face each of these guys 2 potentially three next year?  If not please go watch the Purdue vs ISU game from this year and see what Eady and Williams did to these same bigs or let alone a rookie Freshman in Avila. They disrupted the whole plan for us on both ends.  It will not be pretty.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> I disagree.  I think this is it.  With Martin and Avila and 2 more, I think we are all set.
> Already, Martin and Avila bring a lot of talent to our team, and look out for Stephens and Crawford.



Our 1st and 2nd string centers left. Our 3rd string center that couldn't see the floor over them is still here. If there isn't at least one more, that is a missed opportunity. 

I still think we potentially see several more leave especially based on the number of stones Boisvert and crew are turning over in recruiting.


----------



## treeman

For those of you that didn't watch our games this past season. this needed to happen.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

As long as we upgrade the talent at the positions that are opening up, I'm cool with that.  This is a very important offseason for the staff.  I think they'll pass the test.


----------



## sycamorebacker

EvilleSycamore said:


> Do you know what 6' 10" KJ Williams (if he doesn't go pro) of Murray State or 6'11" Musyzynski of Bellmont, or a few others in the league are going to do to any big man on our roster?  We must face each of these guys 2 potentially three next year?  If not please go watch the Purdue vs ISU game from this year and see what Eady and Williams did to these same bigs or let alone a rookie Freshman in Avila. They disrupted the whole plan for us on both ends.  It will not be pretty.


If you are saying we need a quality big I agree. If you are saying we cut more players to get them, i don’t agree.
We have 2 openings.  How many player upgrades do you think we can get beyond that? 
Building a team is a step by step process.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

hans1950 said:


> No real surprises yet. Once Peterson was healthy and didn't play at all you had to figure. Wilbar started many games but only got 5 minutes never to see the floor again.


You had to figure that??? Hmmm because maybe one or two people on this forum actually explained that throughout the season and the rest were thinking it was some hidden reason that he was actually really good just JS decided not to play him.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I’d say you will be looking at something like this once all is said and done… Key - out. Hittle - out. Peterson - out. Tucker out.
> 
> Wilbar - close. Henry - close.
> 
> It’a tough enough to replace four players - a complete roster overhaul would be pretty difficult to accomplish. Even though Wilbar and Henry got a lot of run I wouldn’t assume either are safe. Henry because of his inability to grasp the mental aspect of D1 college athletics and Wilbar because of his production.
> 
> In a perfect world you get Henry to understand his mental is really the only thing standing in his way from being a really good player at this level. The problem is he was just asked to do way way to much this season once Key went down.



Didn’t miss it by much.


----------



## pbutler218

I look for the offers to start being extended soon. Plenty of D1 talent out there.


----------



## EvilleSycamore

pbutler218 said:


> I look for the offers to start being extended soon. Plenty of D1 talent out there.


The problem isn't a "lot of D1 Talent out there" as you say. The Real problem is D1 WITH talent that would even consider ISU given the place we are in with everything being in flux.  Putting aside our love for ISU, Ask yourself if you were a solid D1 talent and ISU called would you consider coming here with the Chaos we are in now or would you consider another program in a mid major that is producing. Take for example Murray State or ISU who would you think was a better place to land? ISU vs Dayton, Bellmont, now St. Peters, or a whole list.  I just dont think we are at a place to land Upper talent that we are desperately needing to rebuild. I wish i knew the way the teams i named or a host of other can land a D1 difference maker. I really hope Schertz proves me wrong.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You had to figure that??? Hmmm because maybe one or two people on this forum actually explained that throughout the season and the rest were thinking it was some hidden reason that he was actually really good just JS decided not to play him.


I figured he wasn't playing for the same reason Crawford was getting little time.  He was rotating about 8 players and they were freshmen.  
Peterson may have elected to leave.  He (along with me) may not have appreciated using Henry as a ball handler; or he may not have been confident 
competing with Larry, Thomas and Martin for PT.


----------



## sycamorebacker

EvilleSycamore said:


> The problem isn't a "lot of D1 Talent out there" as you say. The Real problem is D1 WITH talent that would even consider ISU given the place we are in with everything being in flux.  Putting aside our love for ISU, Ask yourself if you were a solid D1 talent and ISU called would you consider coming here with the Chaos we are in now or would you consider another program in a mid major that is producing. Take for example Murray State or ISU who would you think was a better place to land? ISU vs Dayton, Bellmont, now St. Peters, or a whole list.  I just dont think we are at a place to land Upper talent that we are desperately needing to rebuild. I wish i knew the way the teams i named or a host of other can land a D1 difference maker. I really hope Schertz proves me wrong.


Winners get good players.  Losers get what's left over.  I think the 4 HS players Coach has signed have been fine.  But, with our record and standing in the conference, I think the program will have to be built by getting 1 or 2 "keepers" per year.  That gets you up to about 5 in a 4 year period.  
Then that has to be supplemented with transfers and jucos.  It is amazing how many transfers are playing in the tournament this year.


----------



## Hooper

EvilleSycamore said:


> "in flux"   "Chaos" "rebuild"



It didn't have to be this way....


----------



## IndyTreeFan

EvilleSycamore said:


> The problem isn't a "lot of D1 Talent out there" as you say. The Real problem is D1 WITH talent that would even consider ISU given the place we are in with everything being in flux.  Putting aside our love for ISU, Ask yourself if you were a solid D1 talent and ISU called would you consider coming here with the Chaos we are in now or would you consider another program in a mid major that is producing. Take for example Murray State or ISU who would you think was a better place to land? ISU vs Dayton, Bellmont, now St. Peters, or a whole list.  I just dont think we are at a place to land Upper talent that we are desperately needing to rebuild. I wish i knew the way the teams i named or a host of other can land a D1 difference maker. I really hope Schertz proves me wrong.


There is some truth there, however if that were always the case, why would you ever change coaches?  Some coaches can identify talent and sell their program. Some coaches can’t sell their program. Some can’t identify talent. 

We made the change because it was felt that HCJS can identify talent AND sell his program. Vision and culture are very important, and you have to hit a home run every once in a while, too. If you’re not an upper level program (yet), you gotta have something to sell - vision and culture. If you don’t have either of those, you’ll probably stay stuck. 

It will be interesting to watch how this unfolds over the next couple of years. I have my own opinion, but either way, it should be exciting. The transfer portal ensures that.


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> Winners get good players.  Losers get what's left over.  I think the 4 HS players Coach has signed have been fine.  But, with our record and standing in the conference, I think the program will have to be built by getting 1 or 2 "keepers" per year.  That gets you up to about 5 in a 4 year period.
> Then that has to be supplemented with transfers and jucos.  It is amazing how many transfers are playing in the tournament this year.



It shouldn't be surprising... the NCAA has shredded any hint of a limit on transfers, they've thrown open the books on giving EVERY kid a 5th, 6th, 7th, etc year...   what's the number of games that bohannin kid at iowa played in his decade as a hawkeye?  179? 185? 196?

once the covid extensions expire... it'll calm down but no rules wrt transfer will keep the ## higher than the 80s, 90s, 00s


----------



## hans1950

sycamorebacker said:


> I figured he wasn't playing for the same reason Crawford was getting little time.  He was rotating about 8 players and they were freshmen.
> Peterson may have elected to leave.  He (along with me) may not have appreciated using Henry as a ball handler; or he may not have been confident
> competing with Larry, Thomas and Martin for PT.


I think Peterson saw that he was the odd man out with no playing time and the signing of Martin so he is leaving. No big deal just reality.


----------



## CardLake49

Hooper said:


> It didn't have to be this way....


There you are Hooper! What took you so long??


----------



## CardLake49

I'm gonna trust coach/staff and just watch this unfold. Even if we only have 3 or 4 guys that are set on staying now I'm of the mindset that next year will be better than this year. Just bc a guy puts his name in the portal it doesn't mean he is really leaving. He may find that there is no market for him on the D1 level. Maybe he is a freshman and would rather compete for time at the D1 level instead of leaving and getting 25 minutes/game at the D2 or JUCO level. Who knows? Its different if you're a junior already. But if you're classified as a freshman why not work harder and compete for the minutes you think you deserve? Where was I going with this? Maybe I shouldn't get on here when I'm drinking.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> I figured he wasn't playing for the same reason Crawford was getting little time.  He was rotating about 8 players and they were freshmen.
> Peterson may have elected to leave.  He (along with me) may not have appreciated using Henry as a ball handler; or he may not have been confident
> competing with Larry, Thomas and Martin for PT.



I think I'd be less concerned with the fact that Peterson is leaving and if "concerned" isn't the word maybe perplexed is the word - why JS was outwardly promoting Peterson this off-season. Not that he shouldn't promote the talents of his guys - he should. But I think it really lead some people to believe that maybe this kid was going to provide value.

I will say it's much much easier to see the forest for the trees when you properly evaluate Julian Larry and not even bring Crawford into this conversation. It becomes pretty simple - if you are a guard on a team that is struggling with offense production and your least productive player offensive player on the floor (Larry) continues to play... You have all the information you need. Don't look at Crawford. Don't read into JS pre-season comments. Don't look at anything. If you were on this roster this year and couldn't paly in front of Julian Larry AT ALL then you were not good enough to play for JS it's cut and dry.


----------



## CardLake49

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I think I'd be less concerned with the fact that Peterson is leaving and if "concerned" isn't the word maybe perplexed is the word - why JS was outwardly promoting Peterson this off-season. Not that he shouldn't promote the talents of his guys - he should. But I think it really lead some people to believe that maybe this kid was going to provide value.
> 
> I will say it's much much easier to see the forest for the trees when you properly evaluate Julian Larry and not even bring Crawford into this conversation. It becomes pretty simple - if you are a guard on a team that is struggling with offense production and your least productive player offensive player on the floor (Larry) continues to play... You have all the information you need. Don't look at Crawford. Don't read into JS pre-season comments. Don't look at anything. If you were on this roster this year and couldn't paly in front of Julian Larry AT ALL then you were not good enough to play for JS it's cut and dry.


Agree with the first part. Need to let the 2nd part sink in. I will say Larry provided something no other guard did - defense. If he wasn't as good as he was defensively I don't think he would've been playing, which would've opened the door for others.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

hans1950 said:


> I think Peterson saw that he was the odd man out with no playing time and the signing of Martin so he is leaving. No big deal just reality.



When the reality is that it was likely a mutually parting of ways - but whatever makes you all feel better. You think JS was having him back if he wanted to be back? After finishing 11-20 and unable to see the floor ahead of Julian Larry? I tell you what - again it should give you major pause in this transfer ridden environment if JS was seriously considering having him back... Because if he's coming back it raises the question why he wasn't giving him a run on a losing team???

What are we talking about it here.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

CardLake49 said:


> Agree with the first part. Need to let the 2nd part sink in. I will say Larry provided something no other guard did - defense. If he wasn't as good as he was defensively I don't think he would've been playing, which would've opened the door for others.



No doubt his defense was the reason he was seeing the floor - absolutely. But if you listened to JS throughout the year as I did pretty closely - more so than I would have GL mainly because after years of GL as a coach his responses were quite predictable really - I'd assume it's that way with most coaches with a long tenure. But I wanted to hear what this guy had to say following losses and leading up to games and what he said was - this team struggles offensively. The numbers happen to bare that out team FG% 9th. Team 3 PT% 7th. Turnover Margin DFL. Assist to TO 8th.

The point being - if the statistics say your team is struggling on O. The HC is verbalizing that the team is struggling on O. If you can't find a better option that Julian Larry then you've got to re-evaluate your roster. BTW - not trying to bash Larry that isn't productive at all here. The kid played his butt off and he improved on both ends of the floor this season in my opinion. But you also have to realize that opposing D's have been ignoring him for two years now and his #'s are still pedestrian. You can't just ignore that if you want to have an open and honest conversation.


----------



## hans1950

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> When the reality is that it was likely a mutually parting of ways - but whatever makes you all feel better. You think JS was having him back if he wanted to be back? After finishing 11-20 and unable to see the floor ahead of Julian Larry? I tell you what - again it should give you major pause in this transfer ridden environment if JS was seriously considering having him back... Because if he's coming back it raises the question why he wasn't giving him a run on a losing team???
> 
> What are we talking about


----------



## sycamorebacker

CardLake49 said:


> Agree with the first part. Need to let the 2nd part sink in. I will say Larry provided something no other guard did - defense. If he wasn't as good as he was defensively I don't think he would've been playing, which would've opened the door for others.


Yes, it's goofy to say that we struggled offensively when we were terrible at defense and rebounding.  Some people have a narrow focus aimed at a scapegoat. 
I'm a Republican, so I believe people can say and believe what they want.  I don't think anyone should be censored.  Some people should be executed, but not censored.


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> Yes, it's goofy to say that we struggled offensively when we were terrible at defense and rebounding.  Some people have a narrow focus aimed at a scapegoat.
> I'm a Republican, so I believe people can say and believe what they want.  I don't think anyone should be censored.  Some people should be executed, but not censored.



banned book lists


----------



## FanSinceArenaDays

Hooper said:


> It didn't have to be this way....


Looks like every team looking for a new coach & there are several of them are not looking GL's way. If they are it is a big secret.


----------



## Blue Streaker

Noah Carter from UNI has entered the portal


----------



## CoachShipp

The transfer portal is going to make the mid-majors and below the minor leagues for the Power 5 schools in a couple of years....if they're not already.


----------



## pbutler218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506774074806128645


----------



## sycamorebacker

4Q_iu said:


> banned book lists





4Q_iu said:


> banned book lists


Yes. That too.


----------



## sycamorebacker

pbutler218 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506774074806128645


I hope he knows what he’s doing.

too many slackers on defense?


----------



## pbutler218

sycamorebacker said:


> I hope he knows what he’s doing.
> 
> too many slackers on defense?


Well....we sure couldn't stop anyone down the stretch in most winnable games this year. Also, we need players who won't turn the ball over and be able to catch a pass and finish at the rim. Not asking for much lol.


----------



## CoachShipp

When a coach repeatedly bemoans the talent level of his own players, it would seem that wholesale changes are to be expected. I agree with other posters who have mentioned that we face a stiff uphill challenge in enticing players to campus currently...Shertz and his boys will have to be hellacious salesmen....hoping for the best.


----------



## bluestreak

JS had to build a roster in a hurry, so there were guys on last years roster he ordinarily would not have offered. The players had a whole season to show they deserved (or wanted) to play in his system. JS has said time and again he intends to build a program, and its pretty obvious he will either succeed or fail on his own terms. I would hate to see us lose a player like Crawford, but as a fan I have decided to jump on the JS bandwagon. So time will tell.


----------



## Huff77

Hickory questioned Norman Dale when he moved to town...but everything seemed to work out when Tyreke Key, er, Jimmy Chitwood decided to stay.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Our 1st and 2nd string centers left. Our 3rd string center that couldn't see the floor over them is still here. If there isn't at least one more, that is a missed opportunity.
> 
> I still think we potentially see several more leave especially based on the number of stones Boisvert and crew are turning over in recruiting.


I guess you are right.  I personally don't agree with rebuilding the team.  I think the coach bares some responsibility if the team does not rebound or play defense.  But, maybe it is the players.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Huff77 said:


> Hickory questioned Norman Dale when he moved to town...but everything seemed to work out when Tyreke Key, er, Jimmy Chitwood decided to stay.


That was a movie.


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> Yes. That too.



banned books = censorship


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> I guess you are right.  I personally don't agree with rebuilding the team.  I think the coach bares some responsibility if the team does not rebound or play defense.  But, maybe it is the players.



the coach bears all of the responsibility of how the team plays

all coaches say they want to, will build a program

time, treasure and talent will show the results


----------



## Hooper

There's potential budget cuts coming and a small men's bball budget and salary pool as it is.  GL had the program in the MVC semi's and finished 4th and 3rd this last two years.  So if Schertz has been brought in to improve off that we're talking NCAA/NIT bids (which GL was getting close to).   If JS can pull that off they'll option his book into a screenplay.  It'll be a _Moneyball_/Billy Beane/Bill James level of hacking the system.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> I guess you are right.  I personally don't agree with rebuilding the team.  I think the coach bares some responsibility if the team does not rebound or play defense.  But, maybe it is the players.



If the players go to practice, take in the instruction and then refuse to take the teaching to the floor or are simply not capable of doing so, you move on in today's landscape. 

Based on who I believe the staff is looking at, this is going to be a multi-year process -- at least another two. I think they are looking for another impact player but will be supplementing those with some upperclassmen culture stopgap guys.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> If the players go to practice, take in the instruction and then refuse to take the teaching to the floor or are simply not capable of doing so, you move on in today's landscape.
> 
> Based on who I believe the staff is looking at, this is going to be a multi-year process -- at least another two. I think they are looking for another impact player but will be supplementing those with some upperclassmen culture stopgap guys.


Fans are impatient. We really should give him at least 3 years   You are probably right on.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Huh. More to come…

But you read Sycamore Pride and it’s like - well it must be a mutual thing. Said player must see the writing on the wall. I made these comments prior to Golden’s earth shattering article in the TribStar about more roster turnover. You guys paying any attention to external factor and many moving parts? I’m very curious…

Fellas - it’s a new age in college basketball. Everything you thought you knew before - throw it out the window.

I haven’t agreed with much I’ve seen from JS in Y1. Much different from 95% of the people on here who I’m convinced will believe whatever coach comes in here tells them to believe in…

But I tell you what - given the ridiculous transfer landscape we are in you could really not  hope for anything else than a coach that is willing to navigate those waters. Had he sat on this current roster as other long time mid major D1 coaches will do - he would have rotted away and blown his opportunity to coach at this level. He’s not settling - you have to respect that given the NCAA in March 22’ it’s not the NCAA we grew up with.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> Fans are impatient. We really should give him at least 3 years   You are probably right on.


The is the most patient fan base in the history of man kind. 

Exhibit 1A - I present you Indiana State Football.

The end.


----------



## EvilleSycamore

CoachShipp said:


> When a coach repeatedly bemoans the talent level of his own players, it would seem that wholesale changes are to be expected. I agree with other posters who have mentioned that we face a stiff uphill challenge in enticing players to campus currently...Shertz and his boys will have to be hellacious salesmen....hoping for the best.


To quote Remember the Titans- Attitude Reflects Leadership! Only time will tell.


----------



## Hooper

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The is the most patient fan base in the history of man kind.
> 
> Exhibit 1A - I present you Indiana State Football.
> 
> The end.


How true….and it begs a serious question.  How many alums of D-1 institutions can say their alma mater tanked it’s football program on purpose and then blew up a winning basketball program—also on purpose—in back-to-back decades?   But just be patient…..


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Schertz, hoping to address ISU culture and talent gap, says more transfers are likely
					

Indiana State men's basketball players Simon Wilbar and Quimari Peterson entered the transfer portal on Wednesday. ISU coach Josh Schertz said he expects a few more players to enter and




					www.tribstar.com
				




"I think we had a deficit of culture and it's on me to fix that and it's on me to move pieces who created some of that deficit," Schertz said.


----------



## Huff77

sycamorebacker said:


> That was a movie.


Are you sure? I know a guy who knows a guy that got strapped to a pine rail and sent down the Monon line.


----------



## FanSinceArenaDays

Hooper said:


> There's potential budget cuts coming and a small men's bball budget and salary pool as it is.  GL had the program in the MVC semi's and finished 4th and 3rd this last two years.  So if Schertz has been brought in to improve off that we're talking NCAA/NIT bids (which GL was getting close to).   If JS can pull that off they'll option his book into a screenplay.  It'll be a _Moneyball_/Billy Beane/Bill James level of hacking the system.


GL has never re-surfaced with a new job. He said many times "all I have to do is make a call"; his number must have been blocked in a lot of places or he just doesn't want to work? His timing has always been subpar. Waited too long to put a decent team together, leave an inevitable dismissal, sat out a year from coaching & now is almost a forgotten entity in most quarters it appears? GL who?


----------



## pbutler218

FanSinceArenaDays said:


> GL has never re-surfaced with a new job. He said many times "all I have to do is make a call"; his number must have been blocked in a lot of places or he just doesn't want to work? His timing has always been subpar. Waited too long to put a decent team together, leave an inevitable dismissal, sat out a year from coaching & now is almost a forgotten entity in most quarters it appears? GL who?


Everything about this post is correct. FACTS!!


----------



## Gotta Hav

Hooper said:


> There's potential budget cuts coming and a small men's bball budget and salary pool as it is.  GL had the program in the MVC semi's and finished 4th and 3rd this last two years.  So if Schertz has been brought in to improve off that we're talking NCAA/NIT bids (*which GL was getting close to*).   If JS can pull that off they'll option his book into a screenplay.  It'll be a _Moneyball_/Billy Beane/Bill James level of hacking the system.


So close!  I'm going to tell a secret, I was close to getting a date once with Morgan Fairchild, and then another time I got close to taking out Bo Derek.  I was like just 3 or 4 phone calls away from closing the deal on each one!

Finishing 3rd and 4th the last two years means absolutely nothing, it's not any different than finishing 2nd.  In case you haven't heard, second place is a.k.a. as the 1st loser. 

And nothing matters but CHAMPIONSHIPS, and he was lucky to get one in his first year, with a very down MVC at Arch Madness.  And for the next decade, he produced nothing, and if he was still here, he still would have produced nothing.  He's touted as THE GREAT ONE because of his record amount of wins, but NO ONE wants to mention his RECORD amount of LOSSES.


----------



## 4Q_iu

FanSinceArenaDays said:


> GL has never re-surfaced with a new job. He said many times "all I have to do is make a call"; his number must have been blocked in a lot of places or he just doesn't want to work? His timing has always been subpar. Waited too long to put a decent team together, leave an inevitable dismissal, sat out a year from coaching & now is almost a forgotten entity in most quarters it appears? GL who?



Impatient much?    TONS of coaches sit out a year, two years...   the Final Four, aka the NABC Annual Convention/Conference is one of the LARGEST job fairs in MBB

forgotten entity in most quarters -- no crystal ball here -- guess you got the last one at the thrift shop

have no clue if he will, won't get another job -- did see his good buddy (Steve Forbes) was tapped as the ACC CoY for 2021-22, maybe Steve will put in a good for him

odd that Forbes was ACC CoY...   Wake Forest isn't always the 1st thought for ACC ball.... they must have picked up some good, better players since last season


----------



## BankShot

Gotta Hav said:


> So close!  I'm going to tell a secret, I was close to getting a date once with Morgan Fairchild, and then another time I got close to taking out Bo Derek.  I was like just 3 or 4 phone calls away from closing the deal on each one!
> 
> Finishing 3rd and 4th the last two years means absolutely nothing, it's not any different than finishing 2nd.  In case you haven't heard, second place is a.k.a. as the 1st loser.
> 
> And nothing matters but CHAMPIONSHIPS, and he was lucky to get one in his first year, with a very down MVC at Arch Madness.  And for the next decade, he produced nothing, and if he was still here, he still would have produced nothing.  He's touted as THE GREAT ONE because of his record amount of wins, but NO ONE wants to mention his RECORD amount of LOSSES.


LOL...and while you were pipe dream'n Bo, I was on a yacht off the coast of Santorini w/ Barbara Eden and had full control of the cork to her bottle!


----------



## Hooper

Gotta Hav said:


> So close!  I'm going to tell a secret, I was close to getting a date once with Morgan Fairchild, and then another time I got close to taking out Bo Derek.  I was like just 3 or 4 phone calls away from closing the deal on each one!
> 
> Finishing 3rd and 4th the last two years means absolutely nothing, it's not any different than finishing 2nd.  In case you haven't heard, second place is a.k.a. as the 1st loser.
> 
> And nothing matters but CHAMPIONSHIPS, and he was lucky to get one in his first year, with a very down MVC at Arch Madness.  And for the next decade, he produced nothing, and if he was still here, he still would have produced nothing.  He's touted as THE GREAT ONE because of his record amount of wins, but NO ONE wants to mention his RECORD amount of LOSSES.


Who recruited the players that won every single ISU regular season and Arch Madness championship since 1979? What happened to ISU recruiting when he left?  Royce Waltman answered that question publicly. 

When JS gets the program in a better spot than Lansing had it let me know.  Based on the few people on here that actually know what they're talking about its sounding like it'll maybe, maybe be the year 2025.  Talk to you then.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Hooper said:


> How true….and it begs a serious question.  *How many alums of D-1 institutions can say their alma mater tanked it’s football program on purpose* and then blew up a winning basketball program—also on purpose—in back-to-back decades?   But just be patient…..


We've had football team since 1896 and I'll speak for 98% of the fans who've ever followed ISU Football.   ISU football does NOT have a football program, we have a football teams.  NDSU has a football program.  So equating ISU football to our winning basketball program that's had seven Final Four appearances, four NCAA tournament runner-up experiences. and one NCAA Basketball Championship is like comparing deliciously cold fresh spring water, to water from the Wabash river.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Not that I care to rehash Lansing, but he is in the discussion for the San Diego job.


----------



## bigsportsfan

5

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506989415754838019


----------



## bluestreak

Jason Svoboda said:


> Not that I care to rehash Lansing, but he is in the discussion for the San Diego job.


Oh great, thanks 'Boda. You just threw gasoline on the fire.


----------



## dino

FanSinceArenaDays said:


> GL has never re-surfaced with a new job. He said many times "all I have to do is make a call"; his number must have been blocked in a lot of places or he just doesn't want to work? His timing has always been subpar. Waited too long to put a decent team together, leave an inevitable dismissal, sat out a year from coaching & now is almost a forgotten entity in most quarters it appears? GL who?


Not trying to shill for lansing… but…
He did a 2 part podcast with father harry (and others) and is still very much involved in the sport in different ways. Also, he mentioned following the team and watching arch madnesss.


----------



## bluestreak

Tucker is in the portal


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Our football program at ISU is a little different than our basketball program. In football I think we can realistically compete with all of the MVC (not MVFC) schools, WIU, and YSU. The Dakota schools, particularly NDSU and SDSU, are light years ahead of us in almost every aspect and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

In basketball we have one of the nicest arenas in the league and we are in a state that at least historically is basketball crazy. There's really no reason we shouldn't be able to compete towards the top of the MVC annually. 

We've been pretty lucky with baseball. We seem to have good teams more often than not in that sport. I'm not exactly sure what we're doing different than the rest of the MVC, outside of DBU, but it seems to be working.


----------



## pbutler218

Hooper said:


> Who recruited the players that won every single ISU regular season and Arch Madness championship since 1979? What happened to ISU recruiting when he left?  Royce Waltman answered that question publicly.
> 
> When JS gets the program in a better spot than Lansing had it let me know.  Based on the few people on here that actually know what they're talking about its sounding like it'll maybe, maybe be the year 2025.  Talk to you then.


Ok. BYE!!!!!


----------



## Bluethunder

I’m having trouble keeping track, so we have five openings right now or just four?

wilbar
Thomas
Hittle
Tucker 
Peterson

We were one over at the end of the season so with five players entering the portal, we have four scholarships open for next year?


----------



## IndyTreeFan

We haven't exactly lost a bunch of impact players.  I wish them all well in their next stop!  However, it won't be terribly difficult to upgrade our talent level.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

Why didn’t Lansing get hired @ ISU Red? No one more familiar with the Valley and of course, we know he would have been willing to coach for half the price they paid for the Ohio St guy.


----------



## bigsportsfan

Bluethunder said:


> I’m having trouble keeping track, so we have five openings right now or just four?
> 
> wilbar
> Thomas
> Hittle
> Tucker
> Peterson
> 
> We were one over at the end of the season so with five players entering the portal, we have four scholarships open for next year?


Six have left. Two signed/committed. Four open.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506993587149541384


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

This is a disaster... Honestly.

JS: I'm coming in to establish a culture!

Year 1 - 11-20.

JS: Hold my beer. Let's try this again.

Someone remind me - how many of those 6 that are leaving were his guys?


----------



## BlueBleeder

While I don't like the massive roster changes back to back seasons, I am not sure how much to put that on coach.  There has to be some responsibility on his part, it is HIS team afterall, but last year was a disaster from the beginning.  He had limited time to put together an entire roster, taking chances without really getting to know guys.  I feel like with more time and better opportunities to sit down face to face with prospective recruits he will do better the second time around.  He has seen his system against better competition and knows what he needs and what did/didn't work.  This is a solid coaching staff who are very well respected and I think they will do a good job getting us ready for next season.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Honestly... based on the conversation that has taken place on this forum for a year now I am confident that we're not going to put much if anything on coach yet. I get it. All of you are willing to give him some time to figure this out. Understood. 

So if we're 11-20 again next year we just going to recycle and replace again? You know how hard it is to fill 2 spots let alone 4 spots? If one of the 4 hit that would be great. All 4 are not going to come in and produce.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bluethunder said:


> I’m having trouble keeping track, so we have five openings right now or just four?
> 
> wilbar
> Thomas
> Hittle
> Tucker
> Peterson
> 
> We were one over at the end of the season so with five players entering the portal, we have four scholarships open for next year?








						2022-2023 Eligibility Chart
					

Senior Eligibility (6) G Cooper Neese G Cameron Henry G Trenton Gibson F Courvoisier McCauley F Kailex Stephens C Cade McKnight  Junior Eligibility (2) G Zach Hobbs G Xavier Bledson  Sophomore Eligiblity (3) G Julian Larry G Cameron Crawford F Jayson Kent G Masen Miller !  Freshman Eligiblity...



					sycamorepride.com


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

My final take away of the day is my best take away... 

We still have Mervis. Bye.


----------



## OhioSycamore

I don't like the roster turnover either, but in JS defense, he had a late start to put the roster together. Also, he was recruiting DII players up to that point. So not only was he behind the ball as far as putting his roster together, he had to learn as much as he could about players he would not have been recruiting at the DII level.  I think this will be the year to really judge the roster construction and be more of how he wants the team to perform going forward.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Honestly... based on the conversation that has taken place on this forum for a year now I am confident that we're not going to put much if anything on coach yet. I get it. All of you are willing to give him some time to figure this out. Understood.
> 
> So if we're 11-20 again next year we just going to recycle and replace again? You know how hard it is to fill 2 spots let alone 4 spots? If one of the 4 hit that would be great. All 4 are not going to come in and produce.



One. Wilbar.

While they "recruited" the others, it was 11th hour recruiting and they just didn't fit or work out. 

Yes. I'd imagine he will keep replacing people until he believes he has the guys that will fully buy in. That's why I'd do. If he doesn't, he's likely booted when his contract expires. Would you do it differently? 

We are +2 on guys they recruited for an entire cycle in Avila and Martin. If we bring in others they've been in on longer than just guys that jumped in the portal, that number may go up. I think he will be recruiting some stop gap culture types. We'll see.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Hooper said:


> Who recruited the players that won every single ISU regular season and Arch Madness championship *since 1979?* What happened to ISU recruiting when he left?  Royce Waltman answered that question publicly.
> 
> When JS gets the program in a better spot than Lansing had it let me know.  Based on the few people on here that actually know what they're talking about its sounding like it'll maybe, maybe be the year 2025.  Talk to you then.


Whoa, slow down there Doc Brown!

Q.  Who recruited the players that won every single ISU regular season and Arch Madness championship since 1979?
A.  Can we just establish the Flux Capacitor time jumping parameters to just the 2010/2011 season forward.  95% of this board wasn't even alive in 1955, let alone born before 1979.

Q.  What happened to ISU recruiting when he left?  Royce Waltman answered that question publicly.
A.  I hate to answer a question with a question.  Who left in 1979?  Lansing wasn't even born until 1967.  

Yeah, I like the 2025 date, maybe I'll talk to you then when we make the Final Four.   Hey, ya gotta hav dreams!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

OhioSycamore said:


> I don't like the roster turnover either, but in JS defense, he had a late start to put the roster together. Also, he was recruiting DII players up to that point. So not only was he behind the ball as far as putting his roster together, he had to learn as much as he could about players he would not have been recruiting at the DII level.  I think this will be the year to really judge the roster construction and be more of how he wants the team to perform going forward.



I think people need to realize there has been a paradigm shift at the NCAA level. 

We now essentially have free agency. This is the new normal and I expect even more player-friendly rules to continue to be ushered in.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Probably not do it any different… But I’m not naive - I think it will be a miracle if 2 of the 4 are pieces. I just think it’s going to be tough for him.


----------



## Hooper

Jason Svoboda said:


> We now essentially have free agency.


Without franchise tags nonetheless.


----------



## 4Q_iu

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Why didn’t Lansing get hired @ ISU Red? No one more familiar with the Valley and of course, we know he would have been willing to coach for half the price they paid for the Ohio St guy.



Sounds like a question for the ISU Red AD, Pres and community -- ask them


----------



## 4Q_iu

BlueBleeder said:


> While I don't like the massive roster changes back to back seasons, I am not sure how much to put that on coach.  There has to be some responsibility on his part, it is HIS team afterall, but last year was a disaster from the beginning.  He had limited time to put together an entire roster, taking chances without really getting to know guys.  I feel like with more time and better opportunities to sit down face to face with prospective recruits he will do better the second time around.  He has seen his system against better competition and knows what he needs and what did/didn't work.  This is a solid coaching staff who are very well respected and I think they will do a good job getting us ready for next season.



...his system against better competition?     His system was utilized strictly in the NCAA Div II ranks - not Div I, be it in the Valley or other Div I conf

He's now in Year 2 - has been for weeks, his next test is in ~30 weeks


----------



## 4Q_iu

Gotta Hav said:


> We've had football team since 1896 and I'll speak for 98% of the fans who've ever followed ISU Football.   ISU football does NOT have a football program, we have a football teams.  NDSU has a football program.  So equating ISU football to our winning basketball program that's had seven Final Four appearances, four NCAA tournament runner-up experiences. and one NCAA Basketball Championship is like comparing deliciously cold fresh spring water, to water from the Wabash river.



ISU has had a football program since 1920; from 1896-1919, ISU only fielded a team in ten seasons.  ISU can claim 1896 but they've consistently been a program since 1920.

The MBB program has played in a "final four" setting seven times, however, they only possess 2 NCAA R/U trophies, not 4.  NAIB & NAIA trophies aren't NCAA trophies and the NAIB National title is exactly that - an NAIB title.

Perhaps you've sucked up too much Oubache River water at this point in time


----------



## 4Q_iu

Gotta Hav said:


> Whoa, slow down there Doc Brown!
> 
> Q.  Who recruited the players that won every single ISU regular season and Arch Madness championship since 1979?
> A.  Can we just establish the Flux Capacitor time jumping parameters to just the 2010/2011 season forward.  95% of this board wasn't even alive in 1955, let alone born before 1979.
> 
> Q.  What happened to ISU recruiting when he left?  Royce Waltman answered that question publicly.
> A.  I hate to answer a question with a question.  Who left in 1979?  Lansing wasn't even born until 1967.
> 
> Yeah, I like the 2025 date, maybe I'll talk to you then when we make the Final Four.   Hey, ya gotta hav dreams!



You must pretend to be a lawyer

Answer Hooper's questions -- or does the answer frighten you?


----------



## jben

For the record....Indiana State Teachers College won the National Intercollegiate Tournament in 1950 
going 5-0.  In 1946 and 1948 they finished runner-up to SIU and Louisville respectively.  In 1949 they lost the 3rd place game
and went 3-2.  In 1953, after losing to eventual champion SW Missouri, they won the 3rd place game and went 4-1.
Between 1942 and 1963 ISU participate in the tourney 12 times:  1942 (2-1), 1943 (0-1), 1946 (4-1), 1948 (4-1),
1949 (3-2), 1950 (5-0), 1952 (1-1), 1953 (4-1), 1954 (0-1), 1959 (1-1), 1962 (0-1) and 1963 (1-1).
To the best of knowledge the tournament was a 32 team affair played in Kansas City, Mo.  It is now known as the N.A.I.A.
tourney.
Several present day HM schools participated at this level over the years.


----------



## tahein07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> My final take away of the day is my best take away...
> 
> We still have Mervis. Bye.


Mervis is a walk on.


----------



## Parsons

I like having smart students from suburban Indianapolis. He is an asset.


----------



## 4Q_iu

jben said:


> For the record....Indiana State Teachers College won the National Intercollegiate Tournament in 1950
> going 5-0.  In 1946 and 1948 they finished runner-up to SIU and Louisville respectively.  In 1949 they lost the 3rd place game
> and went 3-2.  In 1953, after losing to eventual champion SW Missouri, they won the 3rd place game and went 4-1.
> Between 1942 and 1963 ISU participate in the tourney 12 times:  1942 (2-1), 1943 (0-1), 1946 (4-1), 1948 (4-1),
> 1949 (3-2), 1950 (5-0), 1952 (1-1), 1953 (4-1), 1954 (0-1), 1959 (1-1), 1962 (0-1) and 1963 (1-1).
> To the best of knowledge the tournament was a 32 team affair played in Kansas City, Mo.  It is now known as the N.A.I.A.
> tourney.
> Several present day HM schools participated at this level over the years.



In later years, it's bounced from KC to Tulsa, to Oklahoma City, back to it's original home in KC's Muni. Auditorium

Home of the 'Roos!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAIA_Men's_Basketball_Championships


----------



## bigsportsfan

I am not pushing the panic button yet. If this level of turnover happens next year and beyond, however, I will change that stance.

Still giving HCJS benefit of the doubt for now. If six people were going to leave, this would be my list of hopefuls (except Key). Not sure there are any devastating losses in the other five group in terms of talent.

I wish we had more involvement with Indiana kids. Not that they are all better than anyone in the other states, but we badly need basketball IQ to go with our returners (at this point) and our newbies.

I watch players like Comer from Cathedral (EKy) and Suder from Carmel (Bellarmine) go to the Bluegrass state and I wonder if they were ever pursued by us. I know they could both help, along with others in the state.  Maybe they had no interest in us. Who knows?

I hope our strategy is to build the program over time and not just get a ton of portal “scratch and dent” guys to focus mostly on next year. (Except for a 5 man.)

Go Trees!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

tahein07 said:


> Mervis is a walk on.



Mervis as the GOAT is a running joke here. 

In Mervis We Trust!


----------



## IndyTreeFan

bigsportsfan said:


> I am not pushing the panic button yet. If this level of turnover happens next year and beyond, however, I will change that stance.
> 
> Still giving HCJS benefit of the doubt for now. If six people were going to leave, this would be my list of hopefuls (except Key). Not sure there are any devastating losses in the other five group in terms of talent.
> 
> I wish we had more involvement with Indiana kids. Not that they are all better than anyone in the other states, but we badly need basketball IQ to go with our returners (at this point) and our newbies.
> 
> I watch players like Comer from Cathedral (EKy) and Suder from Carmel (Bellarmine) go to the Bluegrass state and I wonder if they were ever pursued by us. I know they could both help, along with others in the state.  Maybe they had no interest in us. Who knows?
> 
> I hope our strategy is to build the program over time and not just get a ton of portal “scratch and dent” guys to focus mostly on next year. (Except for a 5 man.)
> 
> Go Trees!


ISU is virtually blackballed in Carmel.  Under Dr. Bradley, they had started to make a teeny, tiny bit of headway, but under Curtis, that ended.  As I understand it, their athletes won't even talk to us.  I know HCJS is recruiting at least one kid from Carmel, so hopefully, he can change the perception.

But I also think that heavy roster turnover is going to be more and more the norm at MVC level schools, as the transfer portal promises greener pastures in the fields of the P5...


----------



## treeman

IndyTreeFan said:


> Under Dr. Bradley, they had started to make a teeny, tiny bit of headway, but under Curtis, that ended.  As I understand it, their athletes won't even talk to us.


care to elaborate on this?


----------



## IndyTreeFan

treeman said:


> care to elaborate on this?


Under Dr. Bradley, we were doing a lot of marketing up there, under Curtis, no marketing.  Admissions was gutted, so very little personal contact.  And the student demographic up there doesn't fit with what she wants at ISU.  

We're most definitely less than an afterthought in Carmel...


----------



## Hooper

IndyTreeFan said:


> ISU is virtually blackballed in Carmel.  Under Dr. Bradley, they had started to make a teeny, tiny bit of headway, but under Curtis, that ended.  As I understand it, their athletes won't even talk to us.  I know HCJS is recruiting at least one kid from Carmel, so hopefully, he can change the perception.
> 
> But I also think that heavy roster turnover is going to be more and more the norm at MVC level schools, as the transfer portal promises greener pastures in the fields of the P5...


ISU still gets swimmers from Carmel....the best girls swimming program in America btw.


----------



## bigsportsfan

IndyTreeFan said:


> Under Dr. Bradley, we were doing a lot of marketing up there, under Curtis, no marketing.  Admissions was gutted, so very little personal contact.  And the student demographic up there doesn't fit with what she wants at ISU.
> 
> We're most definitely less than an afterthought in Carmel...


If that’s true, that’s pitiful. But I mean we should be getting qualified in-state kids from anywhere, not just Carmel.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

bigsportsfan said:


> If that’s true, that’s pitiful. But I mean we should be getting qualified in-state kids from anywhere, not just Carmel.


Absolutely.  Carmel is just a really glaring example.  We obviously don't have that problem everywhere in Indiana.  But Carmel is fertile ground for athletics recruiting, so it would be nice to be able to get a foot in the door there.  We've been able to do that a little at Cathedral, so maybe between Schertz and Mallory, they can pull off some magic in Carmel.


----------



## Hooper

ISU currently has 162 undergrads and 53 grad students from Hamilton Co.



			https://irt2.indstate.edu/cms7/ir/assets/File/ES_S22.pdf


----------



## Parsons

Good work!!


----------



## BlueBleeder

4Q_iu said:


> ...his system against better competition?     His system was utilized strictly in the NCAA Div II ranks - not Div I, be it in the Valley or other Div I conf
> 
> He's now in Year 2 - has been for weeks, his next test is in ~30 weeks


What I meant was he got to see how his style and plays work against bigger, faster, stronger athletes.  He got to see where the deficiencies are and what needs changed and what a division 1 caliber player needs to look like to make his system work at this level.


----------



## treeman

IndyTreeFan said:


> And the student demographic up there doesn't fit with what she wants at ISU.


yeah we wouldn't want any of those Carmel kids walking around campus, that's for sure.


----------



## Gotta Hav

4Q_iu said:


> ISU has had a football program since 1920; from 1896-1919, ISU only field a team in ten seasons.  ISU can claim 1896 but they've consistently been a program since 1920.
> 
> The MBB program has played in a "final four" setting seven times, however, they only possess 2 NCAA R/U trophies, not 4.  NAIB & NAIA trophies aren't NCAA trophies and the NAIB National title is exactly that - an NAIB title.
> 
> Perhaps you've sucked up too much Oubache River water at this point in time


Serious question, and be honest.  Who ties your shoestrings for you in the morning?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Gotta Hav said:


> Serious question, and be honest.  Who ties your shoestrings for you in the morning?



Your daughter

What pains you more... that you don't know what the fuck you're speaking of, every time you open your gaping maw?

OR

That someone points out that you don't know what the fuck you're speaking of, EVERY time you open your gaping maw?

It must suck to be you


----------



## skdent1414

This thread is long AF, and I can only read texts and Twitter posts. So sorry if this point has already been addressed. But should we assume that JS already has a few guys locked up to replace the 4 we just sent packing? I mean why would he cut bait if he didn’t have any new bait to use? Is he a gambler? Surely he has some leads. Otherwise he’d be in the same situation as last year scrambling for a roster.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

skdent1414 said:


> This thread is long AF, and I can only read texts and Twitter posts. So sorry if this point has already been addressed. But should we assume that JS already has a few guys locked up to replace the 4 we just sent packing? I mean why would he cut bait if he didn’t have any new bait to use? Is he a gambler? Surely he has some leads. Otherwise he’d be in the same situation as last year scrambling for a roster.



I mean what is he gambling?

Swapping Hitte for? Wilbar for? Q for? Can he lose anything at this point… Collectively those guys didn’t give us much - so he can’t do much worse in theory.


----------



## sycamorebacker

I’m sure he didn’t like losing Q. But he probably cut the other 3.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> I’m sure he didn’t like losing Q. But he probably cut the other 3.



You’re sure of that huh Backer… As sure as you are that he didn’t like losing him - I’m equally sure you’re wrong.


----------



## Bluethunder

sycamorebacker said:


> I’m sure he didn’t like losing Q. But he probably cut the other 3.


As soon as we got down against Illinois State at Illinois State and the game was out of hand and Mervis comes into the game several minutes before Q, that should have told all of us that there was an outstanding chance that Q was leaving at the end of the season. When a walk-on is getting more time than you, it’s time to look elsewhere.


----------



## CardLake49

Hooper said:


> ISU still gets swimmers from Carmel....the best girls swimming program in America btw.


Very true, best program indeed. All they do is win win win....literally. You make a great point. If we can get Carmel swimmers why not bball players?


----------



## CardLake49

4Q_iu said:


> Your daughter
> 
> What pains you more... that you don't know what the fuck you're speaking of, every time you open your gaping maw?
> 
> OR
> 
> That someone points out that you don't know what the fuck you're speaking of, EVERY time you open your gaping maw?
> 
> It must suck to be you


Damn y'all!!


----------



## sycamorebacker

Bluethunder said:


> As soon as we got down against Illinois State at Illinois State and the game was out of hand and Mervis comes into the game several minutes before Q, that should have told all of us that there was an outstanding chance that Q was leaving at the end of the season. When a walk-on is getting more time than you, it’s time to look elsewhere.


Did you read the article?  He said Q was behind due to injuries.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You’re sure of that huh Backer… As sure as you are that he didn’t like losing him - I’m equally sure you’re wrong.


Just reading his quotes


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> Just reading his quotes



He also said he was going to contribute and he didn't... We can't really believe everything we read or hear in 2022.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> He also said he was going to contribute and he didn't... We can't really believe everything we read or hear in 2022.


You know sometimes a player wants more PT than he gets and leaves. I think I have seen that happen. If you want to believe he got cut and that makes you happy, okay.
I know some of you wanted everybody cut and don’t allow players to get experience to improve. My experience is jr/sr are usually better than FR.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Actually I'd prefer a few of these guys workout because he can't keep turning over the roster if he plans to be successful here... Last year everyone wants to give him a free pass because he didn't have ample time and also the transfer rules have changed so drastically that you can't really operate under the same standards as we have in the past.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Bluethunder said:


> As soon as we got down against Illinois State at Illinois State and the game was out of hand and Mervis comes into the game several minutes before Q, that should have told all of us that there was an outstanding chance that Q was leaving at the end of the season. When a walk-on is getting more time than you, it’s time to look elsewhere.


Brown and Scott didn’t play when they were FR.
what are you thinking?  FR automatically become college players, even if they are injured half the year.
Wilbar and Thomas got time and were starters and got cut so there goes your theory. I thought Crawford should have played more too. So whatever.


----------



## Bluethunder

sycamorebacker said:


> Brown and Scott didn’t play when they were FR.
> what are you thinking?  FR automatically become college players, even if they are injured half the year.


There is a difference between not playing much and not even getting into the game ahead of a walk-on in a blowout in garbage time

If JS thought Mervis was more deserving of time than a scholarship player, no one should be surprised when said scholarship player leaves the team at the end of the season.


----------



## BrokerZ

Guys, we won 8 D1 games last year. The whole damn roster should be turned over. Why in the world wouldn’t we? So we can wait and see in 3 years we can win 12 D1 games?

Schertz had to recruit last year’s team all via Zoom and video highlights. Now he can actually take a realistic look at how the pieces fit from last year and actually recruit. Let’s see how this shakes out, but I’m absolutely not dwelling in what we lost or who’s leaving.

I want to move on and forward from last year as much as possible.  Schertz doesn’t need to come out and say they screwed this up (relatively speaking) last year. The roster turnover speaks for itself.


----------



## Blue Streaker

For what it worth I still think one or two players may end up in portal


----------



## EvilleSycamore

As of today IU has three players now in the Portal. Christian Lander- 5-star recruit from Evansville, Rob Phinesee- 3 star recruit from Lafayette, and Michael Durr- a 3 star from Atlanta. Wonder if out coaches have made the scenic drive down HWY 46???? We always cry on this board we want Indiana players, weeellllll here's 2 plus a big man we need that didn't fit in the IU system but have the "potential" to be solid MVC players....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Blue Streaker said:


> For what it worth I still think one or two players may end up in portal



Agree. I have a couple educated guesses based on social media movement.


----------



## CardLake49

EvilleSycamore said:


> As of today IU has three players now in the Portal. Christian Lander- 5-star recruit from Evansville, Rob Phinesee- 3 star recruit from Lafayette, and Michael Durr- a 3 star from Atlanta. Wonder if out coaches have made the scenic drive down HWY 46???? We always cry on this board we want Indiana players, weeellllll here's 2 plus a big man we need that didn't fit in the IU system but have the "potential" to be solid MVC players....


Highly doubt we're gonna try to replace Tucker with another big who doesn't shoot 3's. Wouldn't be surprised if Phinesee ended up staying.


----------



## BankShot

Lander was over rated coming out of Reitz a year early and thinking he was "Big Ten ready'. According to a few on the UE Forum, Archie "destroyed his confidence" (?) during yr. #1, then Woodsen gave him nothing but bench splinters last season. He's literally done nothing in 2 yrs., so I'd say that 5-star rating has dropped considerably. Personally, I always felt that he "coattailed" off of DRU SMITH'S popularity @ Missouri after Smith left UE. I think it's known as the "Halo Effect."









						Dru Smith College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
					

Dru Smith - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more




					www.sports-reference.com
				




Btw, a UE poster felt that Lander would work well in JS's system. @ ISU..just an afterthought.


----------



## skdent1414

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I mean what is he gambling?
> 
> Swapping Hitte for? Wilbar for? Q for? Can he lose anything at this point… Collectively those guys didn’t give us much - so he can’t do much worse in theory.


Not going to lie, I liked Wilbar. Not for his shot but for his rim protection and the fact that he has 3 more years of eligibility. Plus the ability to stretch the defense at times was nice. I bet we don’t find 6-11 or better that was mobile as him. Let’s watch


----------



## Jason Svoboda

skdent1414 said:


> Not going to lie, I liked Wilbar. Not for his shot but for his rim protection and the fact that he has 3 more years of eligibility. Plus the ability to stretch the defense at times was nice. I bet we don’t find 6-11 or better that was mobile as him. Let’s watch



I think his lack of post defense is what did him in to be honest. When he started and then was replaced by Kailex, HCJS comments were about guys not locking in defensively. After he was removed from the starting lineup, he also seemed to lose confidence on his shot so it was a pretty steep regression from earlier in the year.


----------



## TreeTop

Glad to see there aren't anymore transfers today!


----------



## swsycamore

skdent1414 said:


> Not going to lie, I liked Wilbar. Not for his shot but for his rim protection and the fact that he has 3 more years of eligibility. Plus the ability to stretch the defense at times was nice. I bet we don’t find 6-11 or better that was mobile as him. Let’s watch


I agree


----------



## jturner38

Jason Svoboda said:


> Agree. I have a couple educated guesses based on social media movement.


Jason who you are thinking? Just guessing for me I would guess Bledson.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Well, we got rid of our 3 big guys.  We're going to be very short next year.  Does Coach realize that any C he gets to come here will take 2-3 years to develop?  If we get lucky on a Juco, we could get one mediocre center.,


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Maybe we should recruit the football team for a big tough center. Myles Walker and Brandon Murphy were two intimidating centers we have had. Maybe not the most talented, but they were both pretty tough and held their own just fine.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Maybe we should recruit the football team for a big tough center. Myles Walker and Brandon Murphy were two intimidating centers we have had. Maybe not the most talented, but they were both pretty tough and held their own just fine.


I was going to mention them.  They both took time to develop.  That's typical for our program.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

No doubt he will add a guy with some height, but I really don’t think he is after the “banger-type” Centers.  Most likely looking for the Avila-types that can shoot and move without the ball.

No matter what, still need some guys not afraid to rebound.


----------



## Blue Streaker

Rebounding is effort and mentality. Renn was 6-6, Cruse 6-4, Richard 6-5,


----------



## bigsportsfan

This is interesting 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507401870209437705


----------



## bluestreak

Blue Streaker said:


> Rebounding is effort and mentality. Renn was 6-6, Cruse 6-4, Richard 6-5, View attachment 1717


Pillow was a 6'2" forward


----------



## BankShot

We'd had a Small College Championship v. Runnerup in '68 had the NCAA NOT ruled #15 Rich Mason (6'8" E. Chicago/Northwestern) INELIGIBLE for the Tournament. He transferred from Northwestern, sat out a year, but for reason's unknown, was prohibited from '68 post-season play. Strange...


----------



## BankShot

Rich Mason - Fr. Yr/Northwestern:








						1964-65 Northwestern Wildcats Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
					

1964-65 Northwestern Wildcats Roster and Stats




					www.sports-reference.com
				




E.C. Washington HS:








						Build-A-Team: Putting together the best East Chicago Washington basketball team
					

IndyStar preps Insider Kyle Neddenriep identified the 64 “best” high school teams of all-time. That means the best team you can put together.



					www.indystar.com


----------



## CardLake49

sycamorebacker said:


> Well, we got rid of our 3 big guys.  We're going to be very short next year.  Does Coach realize that any C he gets to come here will take 2-3 years to develop?  If we get lucky on a Juco, we could get one mediocre center.,


You act like the 3 bigs that hit the portal were already developed. Heck who knows how ready any of them will be in 2-3 years b/c they sure aren't now.


----------



## CardLake49

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Maybe we should recruit the football team for a big tough center. Myles Walker and Brandon Murphy were two intimidating centers we have had. Maybe not the most talented, but they were both pretty tough and held their own just fine.


No way he goes for this type. If they can't shoot the 3 and/or probe the paint/catch/finish after the high screen and roll then they probably won't end up here.


----------



## pbutler218

I am really surprised we haven't heard of any offers being extended to new recruits. Also, does anyone know if we've reached the end of the exodus or is more suspected?


----------



## Sycamorefan96

CardLake49 said:


> No way he goes for this type. If they can't shoot the 3 and/or probe the paint/catch/finish after the high screen and roll then they probably won't end up here.


So basically we're going after big wussy boys that wish they were guards.


----------



## Blue Streaker

pbutler218 said:


> I am really surprised we haven't heard of any offers being extended to new recruits. Also, does anyone know if we've reached the end of the exodus or is more suspected?


I still think there could be more but i would think it would have happened before now


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

Sycamorefan96 said:


> So basically we're going after big wussy boys that wish they were guards.



Is that what you think of Brady Manek @ UNC?

No, I’m not naive to think a player of his skill set is walking through the doors tomorrow.  This type is skill set seems to be what fits what JS wants to do.  A big that can shoot, move without the ball and still hold his own on defense/rebounding.


----------



## bluestreak

St. Peters did okay with a mobile 6'8" center against the Purdue giants. Edey alone had 6 TO's.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Is that what you think of Brady Manek @ UNC?
> 
> No, I’m not naive to think a player of his skill set is walking through the doors tomorrow.  This type is skill set seems to be what fits what JS wants to do.  A big that can shoot, move without the ball and still hold his own on defense/rebounding.


We better get some interior defense to help cut down on the layups and putbacks.  I wouldn't care if he couldn't shoot beyond 5 ft.  Someone like Tre Williams would be great.


----------



## Hooper

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> A big that can shoot, move without the ball and still hold his own on defense/rebounding.



There are 357 other D-1 programs looking for the same thing.


----------



## CardLake49

Sycamorefan96 said:


> So basically we're going after big wussy boys that wish they were guards.


No. We're going after guys who fit coach's system/the way the game is played today.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

Hooper said:


> There are 357 other D-1 programs looking for the same thing.



Thank you, Hooper. I’ll change it, “can’t shoot, stagnant on the block & terrible defense/rebounding.”

You really are turning into Hoopsfan from the opposite prospective. I apologize for stating JS style is mobile/shooting bigs rather than classic banging postman on the block.


----------



## sycamorebacker

CardLake49 said:


> No. We're going after guys who fit coach's system/the way the game is played today.


Today's games have a lot of blocks around the basket.  I want defense.  Screw the "offense" the way they play today or Coach's "system."


----------



## IndyMitchell

BankShot said:


> Lander was over rated coming out of Reitz a year early and thinking he was "Big Ten ready'. According to a few on the UE Forum, Archie "destroyed his confidence" (?) during yr. #1, then Woodsen gave him nothing but bench splinters last season. He's literally done nothing in 2 yrs., so I'd say that 5-star rating has dropped considerably. Personally, I always felt that he "coattailed" off of DRU SMITH'S popularity @ Missouri after Smith left UE. I think it's known as the "Halo Effect."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dru Smith College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
> 
> 
> Dru Smith - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sports-reference.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, a UE poster felt that Lander would work well in JS's system. @ ISU..just an afterthought.


Lander would be an incredible get.  He came into college at 17 and his light weight/strength was too much to overcome.  He had ever offer you could want.  He was the #1 ranked PG in his JR class.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Is that what you think of Brady Manek @ UNC?
> 
> No, I’m not naive to think a player of his skill set is walking through the doors tomorrow.  This type is skill set seems to be what fits what JS wants to do.  A big that can shoot, move without the ball and still hold his own on defense/rebounding.


I haven't watched a single tournament game. I only watch the MVC and the OVC. What I know in the MVC is that there are a ton of defensive slugfests and that a wussy boy as a center won't cut it. I want someone that is pretty tough and that can be a bully inside like Gage Primm or Johni Broome. I'm not sure what the definition of shooting is, but I don't think any big we have has any business shooting beyond 15 feet. If we're recruiting wannabe guards we're not going to be very successful in the MVC, sorry to say.


----------



## BankShot

IndyMitchell said:


> Lander would be an incredible get.  He came into college at 17 and his light weight/strength was too much to overcome.  He had ever offer you could want.  He was the #1 ranked PG in his JR class.


So do you think that after his two (2) yr. IU performance under Archie/Woodsen that he's STILL a 5 star rated guard? 









						Khristian Lander College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
					

Khristian Lander - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more




					www.sports-reference.com
				




I'm just hoping he's had a "reckoning," thus enabling him to come to grips w/ the reality of his comparative talent and abilities. Still trying to figure out who the "voices" were that pushed him to forgo his final HS season. At the very least, he could've played @ a prep school against enhanced competition. Comparatively speaking, SW IN HS basketball is a moon shot from Big Ten play.


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## Jason Svoboda

BankShot said:


> So do you think that after his two (2) yr. IU performance under Archie/Woodsen that he's STILL a 5 star rated guard?
> 
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> Khristian Lander College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
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> Khristian Lander - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
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> www.sports-reference.com
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> I'm just hoping he's had a "reckoning," thus enabling him to come to grips w/ the reality of his comparative talent and abilities. Still trying to figure out who the "voices" were that pushed him to forgo his final HS season. At the very least, he could've played @ a prep school against enhanced competition. Comparatively speaking, SW IN HS basketball is a moon shot from Big Ten play.



Prep school? Isn't that why he went to IU?


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## IndyMitchell

BankShot said:


> So do you think that after his two (2) yr. IU performance under Archie/Woodsen that he's STILL a 5 star rated guard?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Khristian Lander College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
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> 
> Khristian Lander - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sports-reference.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just hoping he's had a "reckoning," thus enabling him to come to grips w/ the reality of his comparative talent and abilities. Still trying to figure out who the "voices" were that pushed him to forgo his final HS season. At the very least, he could've played @ a prep school against enhanced competition. Comparatively speaking, SW IN HS basketball is a moon shot from Big Ten play.


What I am saying is that some school will be thrilled to take a chance on this guy.  He's too thin but he'll be a really good player for somebody in the next couple years.


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## bigsportsfan

We got one!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508492215882063884


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## TreeTop

WOAH!!!


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## bigsportsfan

Not exactly a sharpshooter……..


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## EvilleSycamore

bigsportsfan said:


> We got one!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508492215882063884


So looks like he went to the same high school and played with Robbie Avila.  Guess we can recruit one high school in the world. lol!!


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## BankShot

So will he have 2 or 3 yrs. remaining @ ISU? While doing some additional reading (late bloomer, family hoop ties, etc), I also agree that Kent is a good catch for ISU.


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## EvilleSycamore

On paper Kent looks like an upgrade compared to the exiting players so far.  Now he needs 3 or 4 more just like is addition.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

EvilleSycamore said:


> On paper Kent looks like an upgrade compared to the exiting players so far.  Now he needs 3 or 4 more just like is addition.



Agree.  Kent adds more length on wing, better defensively and more athletic than anyone we lost.  Only tool that any of the 5 leaving was better was possibly Micah’s ability to score (which disappeared the last 10 games or so).  Kent may provide that anyway in a different situation.

Most interested in which big(s) we add now.


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## CardLake49

sycamorebacker said:


> Today's games have a lot of blocks around the basket.  I want defense.  Screw the "offense" the way they play today or Coach's "system."





BankShot said:


> So will he have 2 or 3 yrs. remaining @ ISU? While doing some additional reading (late bloomer, family hoop ties, etc), I also agree that Kent is a good catch for ISU.


Family hoop ties? Does that mean he's related to someone who played here?


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## sycamorebacker

I guess he has played 2 years; so he has 3 remaining if both parties agree.  I also assume he will have to sit out a year.


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## BlueBleeder

sycamorebacker said:


> I guess he has played 2 years; so he has 3 remaining if both parties agree.  I also assume he will have to sit out a year.


I am pretty sure there is no sitting out, even though it is within conference.


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## sycamorebacker

BlueBleeder said:


> I am pretty sure there is no sitting out, even though it is within conference.


The news release makes it sound like that.  I haven't seen anything indicating that rule was changed and I have looked.  Well, okay.


----------



## BlueBleeder

Didn't the kid from Valpo, Donovan Clay, transfer to Missouri State for this season and played immediately?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

The NCAA instituted a one-time immediate eligibility for all players. Conference rules cannot supersede those of the NCAA so if there was one on the books, it's no longer valid..


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> The NCAA instituted a one-time immediate eligibility for all players. Conference rules cannot supersede those of the NCAA so if there was one on the books, it's no longer valid..


This is certainly good news for a team like ISU that needs fresh blood immediately.  I see Thompson (Purdue) is available.  I don't know if we would be interested but he is a great shooter and since his dad played here there is a connection.


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## bigsportsfan

sycamorebacker said:


> The news release makes it sound like that.  I haven't seen anything indicating that rule was changed and I have looked.  Well, okay.


This sounds like he plays immediately:
“*TERRE HAUTE, Ind. –* Indiana State head basketball coach Josh Schertz announced the addition of Jayson Kent (Oak Forest, Ill./Bradley/Oak Forest HS) on Monday. Kent will join the Sycamores for the 2022-23 season as a junior with three years of eligibility remaining.”


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## BankShot

CardLake49 said:


> Family hoop ties? Does that mean he's related to someone who played here?


If you read his bio, take a guess. Besides, I'd hate to remove any excitement...


----------



## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> If you read his bio, take a guess. Besides, I'd hate to remove any excitement...


Oh, come on Bank, I think we should tell him.


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## sycamorebacker

His dad played here 2 years and finished at BSU. LaSalle was a good player.


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## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> His dad played here 2 years and finished at BSU. LaSalle was a good player.



true -- thinking he'd have more fans in TH, had he stayed in TH - not run off to ISU_Muncee

odd that son thompson jumped into the portal -- guessing he may be eased out in w. laf


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## EvilleSycamore

I think the logical landing spot for Thompson would be Ball State. The last school for his dad, New exciting hype about Michael Lewis getting the job there, Lewis/BSU with stronger in-state recruiting power than ISU.


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## CardLake49

EvilleSycamore said:


> I think the logical landing spot for Thompson would be Ball State. The last school for his dad, New exciting hype about Michael Lewis getting the job there, Lewis/BSU with stronger in-state recruiting power than ISU.


I remember not wanting to do exactly what my dad did, but wanting to blaze my own trail instead. Maybe young Thompson feels the same. Who knows.


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## 4Q_iu

CardLake49 said:


> I remember not wanting to do exactly what my dad did, but wanting to blaze my own trail instead. Maybe young Thompson feels the same. Who knows.



Thompson's older brother PJ, aka LaSalle Thompson IV declined his Sycamore offer to hoop it for matt painter

still be surprised if thompson actually leaves the big ten...   he may - kids love the portal


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## sycamorebacker

4Q_iu said:


> Thompson's older brother PJ, aka LaSalle Thompson IV declined his Sycamore offer to hoop it for matt painter
> 
> still be surprised if thompson actually leaves the big ten...   he may - kids love the portal


at 4-5 ppg I don't see big 10 teams lining up for him.  Not sure we should but I feel like he could be a double figure scorer for us.


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## EvilleSycamore

My issue with him is he is a 6'0" guard (listed 6'1" but we know how listing go) who doesn't have any physical size. He is a very good outside shooter but is questionable on the dribble drive that is todays game and i think is a major part of how Schertz ultimately wants to play. We have had our share of undersized guards, and have an incoming freshman with the same build, granted a few have produced but todays game is different than it was even two to three years ago. So please don't anyone go into their typical glorydays speech about specific guards of the past, i understand that.


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## Jason Svoboda

jturner38 said:


> Jason who you are thinking? Just guessing for me I would guess Bledson.



Thinking a different wing.


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## Jason Svoboda

EvilleSycamore said:


> My issue with him is he is a 6'0" guard (listed 6'1" but we know how listing go) who doesn't have any physical size. He is a very good outside shooter but is questionable on the dribble drive that is todays game and i think is a major part of how Schertz ultimately wants to play. We have had our share of undersized guards, and have an incoming freshman with the same build, granted a few have produced but todays game is different than it was even two to three years ago. So please don't anyone go into their typical glorydays speech about specific guards of the past, i understand that.



Thompson? He was one of the most efficient players in all of college hoops this year.


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## CardLake49

Jason Svoboda said:


> Thinking a different wing.


Only other wings have the same first name. Which one? And why do you think that?


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## Jason Svoboda

CardLake49 said:


> Only other wings have the same first name. Which one? And why do you think that?



Not a Cam that I'm thinking of.


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## CardLake49

Jason Svoboda said:


> Not a Cam that I'm thinking of.


Kailex????


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## pbutler218

All remaining players from last year are "currently" listed on gosycamores 2022-2023 roster. No new players added yet though.


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## jturner38

CardLake49 said:


> Kailex????


Probably Hobbs then


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## Jason Svoboda

I think it may be some Twitter fuckery. If you look at a follow page for example, accounts remain static until there are new adds. So if you have an idea of the last new follow, you can see who is new.

It looks like some old follows got booted to the top. Crank call.. . Disregard.


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## EvilleSycamore

So now that the dust is starting to settle on portal signings for ISU, do you think anyone will be headed to Redshirt status????  I think the prime candidate right now will be Martin.  If that happens do you think we will see one more preferred walk-on????


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## bigsportsfan

I could actually see Crawford redshirt. That was the plan this year until Key was out.


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## sycamorebacker

Might be wise for Crawford, but he may not want to.
Martin could if he is the #3 PG.  We'll need to see if Gibson is good enough to be Larry's backup. 
I hope Neese is ready to battle McCauley for a wing spot.
I'm guessing that Avila might be ok as backup C.


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## dino

EvilleSycamore said:


> So now that the dust is starting to settle on portal signings for ISU, do you think anyone will be headed to Redshirt status????  I think the prime candidate right now will be Martin.  If that happens do you think we will see one more preferred walk-on????


If Avila redshirts  then Xavier bledson is the 3rd biggest dude on the roster. Bledson occasionally guarded bigs but it’s not ideal. If this was plan A then there is no depth if there’s any kind of absences from a big.

Martín could redshirt. There are a lot of guards ahead of him but only one other that I’d call a point. (I don’t call Larry a point guard.)

Crawford feels like a dark horse candidate to redshirt. He seems too good to want to waste another year of eligibility playing the kind of minutes he did his freshman year.


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## treeman

sycamorebacker said:


> Might be wise for Crawford, but he may not want to.
> Martin could if he is the #3 PG.  We'll need to see if Gibson is good enough to be Larry's backup.
> I hope Neese is ready to battle McCauley for a wing spot.
> I'm guessing that Avila might be ok as backup C.


- Agreed with the Crawford statement.
- Martin probably will redshirt baring anything unforeseen. 
- "We'll see if Gibson is good enough too be Larry's back up?" I'm a Larry fan; but no way did Gibson come here as a grad-transfer to back up Larry. If Larry makes another year of improvement to offensive game, he will be a very serviceable back-up in the MVC.
- Neese, Henry, McCauley are all going to be starting together more times than not this season. I think it becomes of more of question "who is ready to battle Stephens, because he is going to try take your minutes" 
- Avila is a complete wildcard this season.


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## Jason Svoboda

I'm going to throw it out that nobody will redshirt. I think redshirting will likely go the way of the dodo bird.


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## dino

This team has 6 seniors who might be easy to project getting the most minutes. Plus 7 undeclassmen. This team feels deep enough to platoon. In reality, we’ll probably see another year of 8-9 players getting most of the minutes from game to game.


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## treeman

Jason Svoboda said:


> I'm going to throw it out that nobody will redshirt. I think redshirting will likely go the way of the dodo bird.


Agree with this somewhat. I think once the Covid athletes are all gone things will swing back to "normal" a little. But I definitely think a redshirt will be more of an exception than a rule going forward.


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## dino

treeman said:


> Agree with this somewhat. I think once the Covid athletes are all gone things will swing back to "normal" a little. But I definitely think a redshirt will be more of an exception than a rule going forward.


Feels like no better time to redshirt than right now. With all of the glut effecting high school recruits…why not park yourself at a school and get a year under your belt without using the eligibility with minimal minutes? If there’s any coach that could do it I’d assume it would be the coach who’s already been doing it for quite some time. (Recruiting good players who know it’s better in the long run to wait their turn.) 

Im hoping that redshirting still has a pulse.


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## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> Agree with this somewhat. I think once the Covid athletes are all gone things will swing back to "normal" a little. But I definitely think a redshirt will be more of an exception than a rule going forward.



I think it will be the 2025-26 season when all of the extra COVID eligibility is finally out of the system. 

But with the influx of the transfer portal and the NLI stuff, kids are going to be unlikely to "take one for the team" unless being compensated. Welcome to the new normal. Hope I'm wrong.


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## IndyTreeFan

Just my 2 cents...

The "New Normal" sucks...


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## sycamorebacker

treeman said:


> " I'm a Larry fan; but no way did Gibson come here as a grad-transfer to back up Larry. \


Have you seen Gibson play on YouTube?

I would compare him to Bledson athletically, and Neese as a ball handler, and Larry as a shooter.

I guess we'll find out in November.


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## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> Just my 2 cents...
> 
> The "New Normal" sucks...


 True but it's what the kids wanted, now they have it

if they destroy the product, their NIL deals won't be worth the "paper" on which they're written


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## dino

sycamorebacker said:


> Have you seen Gibson play on YouTube?
> 
> I would compare him to Bledson athletically, and Neese as a ball handler, and Larry as a shooter.
> 
> I guess we'll find out in November.


He’s a big guard (6’4”) with stat lines that anybody would drool over. Still have to see it work in D1 but this feels like somebody who could easily be our best player on any given night. #notascout but the first game that pops up on YouTube is also one of his worst shooting performances, based on the box score. Hard to imagine that somebody who even has a twinkle of NBA potential can’t also be a solid D1 player. Time will tell.


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## dino

Trenton Gibson senior stats right here.
Sign me up for any player who knows how to get to the free throw line and makes as many attempts as Gibson.
Laid some real big eggs from 3 more than a few times… But clearly had the green light. Confidence doesn’t seem to be an issue.


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## CardLake49

dino said:


> This team has 6 seniors who might be easy to project getting the most minutes. Plus 7 undeclassmen. This team feels deep enough to platoon. In reality, we’ll probably see another year of 8-9 players getting most of the minutes from game to game.


I agree with the number in the rotation bc coach has said as much in regards to his coaching philosophy.


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## sycamorebacker

dino said:


> He’s a big guard (6’4”) with stat lines that anybody would drool over. Still have to see it work in D1 but this feels like somebody who could easily be our best player on any given night. #notascout but the first game that pops up on YouTube is also one of his worst shooting performances, based on the box score. Hard to imagine that somebody who even has a twinkle of NBA potential can’t also be a solid D1 player. Time will tell.


He is most definitely NOT an NBA prospect.


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## bigsportsfan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517175856308932613


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## CardLake49

sycamorebacker said:


> Have you seen Gibson play on YouTube?
> 
> I would compare him to Bledson athletically, and Neese as a ball handler, and Larry as a shooter.
> 
> I guess we'll find out in November.


So basically he's a waste of a scholly? Intended or not your description cracked me up.


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## CardLake49

treeman said:


> - Agreed with the Crawford statement.
> - Martin probably will redshirt baring anything unforeseen.
> - "We'll see if Gibson is good enough too be Larry's back up?" I'm a Larry fan; but no way did Gibson come here as a grad-transfer to back up Larry. If Larry makes another year of improvement to offensive game, he will be a very serviceable back-up in the MVC.
> - Neese, Henry, McCauley are all going to be starting together more times than not this season. I think it becomes of more of question "who is ready to battle Stephens, because he is going to try take your minutes"
> - Avila is a complete wildcard this season.


1. I'm really curious about the Crawford redshirting thing. Looking at him last season we basically all say he needed a redshirt year. I'm not looking at him like that. Multiple reports are that dude is putting in the work in the weight room and on the court. If that's the case then I REALLY hope he is the kind of dude that refuses to redshirt b/c he believes in himself (and his work) so much that he KNOWS he's taking someone's minutes next year. I know that's a dream, and there's no way for me to have any confidence that's a possibility. But that's my hope. In my humble opinion he has more upside than anyone on this roster with his size, length, handle, stroke, speed and twitch. If this dude puts it together he's gonna be trouble. 
4. Disagree. Wanted to go all whoever that was (SSOM maybe?) and say if Neese starts 5 games this season I'll get off here forever, but there's too many new roster pieces to really know anything and I kinda like it here. I honestly don't see Neese as a starter for this team. I get what he's done, 1k point scorer and all that. I just don't see it. Usually i'd follow that up with "I hope I'm wrong" but I actually don't. If I'm wrong then the new (non big) guys aren't all that.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

CardLake49 said:


> 1. I'm really curious about the Crawford redshirting thing. Looking at him last season we basically all say he needed a redshirt year. I'm not looking at him like that. Multiple reports are that dude is putting in the work in the weight room and on the court. If that's the case then I REALLY hope he is the kind of dude that refuses to redshirt b/c he believes in himself (and his work) so much that he KNOWS he's taking someone's minutes next year. I know that's a dream, and there's no way for me to have any confidence that's a possibility. But that's my hope. In my humble opinion he has more upside than anyone on this roster with his size, length, handle, stroke, speed and twitch. If this dude puts it together he's gonna be trouble.
> 4. Disagree. Wanted to go all whoever that was (SSOM maybe?) and say if Neese starts 5 games this season I'll get off here forever, but there's too many new roster pieces to really know anything and I kinda like it here. I honestly don't see Neese as a starter for this team. I get what he's done, 1k point scorer and all that. I just don't see it. Usually i'd follow that up with "I hope I'm wrong" but I actually don't. If I'm wrong then the new (non big) guys aren't all that.



Yes - I am wanting more people to put their SycamorePride life on the line when they make certain statements - I think it would be so much more fun and would require people to actually think before they said something on here!

But just so we're clear - you don't think Neese is going to start 5 games this season? I tell you what... I will go all SSOM for you - I will take the over on 5 games and I will leave if it doesn't happen. (Serious injury doesn't count either...)

So I've got Cobie Barnes and Cooper Neese prop bets in play. Nice. Someone needs to give me more prop bets like this rather quickly - maybe we can have a prop bet thread where you put your entire username on the line. I'm thinking about also putting my line on JS actually getting a technical foul this year - he's rather chill but I'm thinking about taking the over on 1 technical foul.


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## dino

sycamorebacker said:


> He is most definitely NOT an NBA prospect.


Most of us have known who Gibson is for about a month. I’ll trust an NBA draft expert who says he has draft potential. Nothing guaranteed but a relatively high ceiling has been placed on him by people who get paid to do those things. Must be something about him to receive that type of assessment.


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## bigsportsfan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517215773357449218


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## SycamoreStateofMind

bigsportsfan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517215773357449218



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WTF


----------



## IndyTreeFan

bigsportsfan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517215773357449218


Seriously?  Is that even a thing for walk-ons?


----------



## Bluethunder

I'm going to throw it out that nobody will redshirt. I think redshirting will likely go the way of the dodo bird.


Why bother redshirting a kid?  If he improves due to the redshirt he will just ditch you for a P5 later anyway.


----------



## Bluethunder

bigsportsfan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517215773357449218


My week is ruined.

why even have a season this fall?


----------



## EvilleSycamore

Bluethunder said:


> My week is ruined.
> 
> why even have a season this fall?


Maybe he can go to a junior college and become a Power five recruit with offers from a powerhouse like IUPU- Fort Wayne Like Barnes.  AAANNNDDD he did have the honor to set in a chair right beside Lansing for a whole year. That alone should make him an NBA prospect, Right Hooper! LOL!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> Seriously?  Is that even a thing for walk-ons?



Yeah, because you have to enter the actual NCAA system that says you are available.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Yeah, because you have to enter the actual NCAA system that says you are available.



It’s such a clown show they should be able to create a social media like profile that says:

Hobbies:
Gender:
Social media handles:
Schools of interest:
How much NIL Money do you require:
What position do you want to play: Mervis - Walk-on please.
Strengths:
Weakness:
Favorite quote:
Favorite food:
Favorite drink:


----------



## sycamorebacker

dino said:


> Most of us have known who Gibson is for about a month. I’ll trust an NBA draft expert who says he has draft potential. Nothing guaranteed but a relatively high ceiling has been placed on him by people who get paid to do those things. Must be something about him to receive that type of assessment.


Did you watch him play?  So far, nobody but me has described his strengths and weaknesses and the opinions being expressed are from ignorance.

If you do watch him play, note his quickness, jump and handle.

Am I the only guy that researches our recruits on Youtube?  I would certainly welcome differing opinions of someone that has actually watched him play a game.


----------



## dino

sycamorebacker said:


> Did you watch him play?  So far, nobody but me has described his strengths and weaknesses and the opinions being expressed are from ignorance.
> 
> If you do watch him play, note his quickness, jump and handle.
> 
> Am I the only guy that researches our recruits on Youtube?  I would certainly welcome differing opinions of someone that has actually watched him play a game.


I try to watch but I can’t promise I pay attention the whole time. I just wonder if you’ve watched some bad games and that’s what your impression of him is based on. You wouldn’t want to show somebody Brenton Scott’s final game as a sycamore and try to convince them he had a decent college

 Schertz recruited a dude gaining attention of NBA scouts. That part seems to be a fact. There’s no doubt he’s trying to ball out and prove what he can do. Very hard to believe he wasn’t recruited to be a centerpiece by many D1 schools.
When I’ve watched his games I see a grown man who seems composed. He’s a playmaker and can créate his own shot. He can punish defenses with his passing abilities.
I saw him make bad passes and take some deep threes too that surely will get peoples blood boiling. Maybe too flashy with his passes but had some athletic d2 teammates who could throw it down. Feels like a player who makes everybody better.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

I'm not sure why you guys are even arguing this much over Gibson. 

You guys are arguing as if he was recruited to come in and be a star player for us. He was recruited (IMO) to be a culture setter. To play smarter basketball and to give max effort in hopes the move up gives him more tape and solidifies his pro prospects, whatever those may be. 

All we need him to do is get to the right spots within the flow of the offense, make the smart play when he has the ball, and hit his portion of the open shots. If that manifests into a 6-10ppg, 3-5apg, 3-5rpg type of guy while protecting the basketball, I'll take that all day long.


----------



## dino

Jason Svoboda said:


> I'm not sure why you guys are even arguing this much over Gibson.
> 
> You guys are arguing as if he was recruited to come in and be a star player for us. He was recruited (IMO) to be a culture setter. To play smarter basketball and to give max effort in hopes the move up gives him more tape and solidifies his pro prospects, whatever those may be.
> 
> All we need him to do is get to the right spots within the flow of the offense, make the smart play when he has the ball, and hit his portion of the open shots. If that manifests into a 6-10ppg, 3-5apg, 3-5rpg type of guy while protecting the basketball, I'll take that all day long.


I’ll stop. Just thought it was weird for somebody to fan the flame on his potential after watching a couple videos. Lot of evidence out there that he’s got the right tools on and off the court. I think he could be a star but I’m hopelessly optimistic. Feels like this team is loaded and Gibson could be a huge part of their success. I’m just trying to speak it into existence. Historically speaking, mvc teams with nba-ish caliber players are usually pretty good. You can add the isu teams with laravia on them to the recent list of examples.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

dino said:


> I’ll stop. Just thought it was weird for somebody to fan the flame on his potential after watching a couple videos. Lot of evidence out there that he’s got the right tools on and off the court. I think he could be a star but I’m hopelessly optimistic. Feels like this team is loaded and Gibson could be a huge part of their success. I’m just trying to speak it into existence. Historically speaking, mvc teams with nba-ish caliber players are usually pretty good. You can add the isu teams with laravia on them to the recent list of examples.



Yeah, it is definitely weird the large swing in evaluations between the NBA site dude and our resident analyst. 

All I'm saying is we don't need him to be Mr. Right, just Mr. Right Now. Can he get Cam, Neese, Vos into good shots without turning it over? Yeah? That's all I want.


----------



## Bluethunder

sycamorebacker said:


> Am I the only guy that researches our recruits on Youtube?



while I haven’t spoken to everyone on the board personally, I’m going to answer this question with a “yes” and feel pretty confident with that answer.


----------



## dino

I don’t think it’s too far fetched to think this team will win the mvc regular season and arch madness. They’ll likely be ranked #22 in the country before selection Sunday. Isu will take out seton hall as the #10 seed before losing to #2 Arkansas in the round of 32. Sycamore fans will claim the team is better than Kentucky using the transitive property. That’ not too much to ask.


----------



## CardLake49

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Yes - I am wanting more people to put their SycamorePride life on the line when they make certain statements - I think it would be so much more fun and would require people to actually think before they said something on here!
> 
> But just so we're clear - you don't think Neese is going to start 5 games this season? I tell you what... I will go all SSOM for you - I will take the over on 5 games and I will leave if it doesn't happen. (Serious injury doesn't count either...)
> 
> So I've got Cobie Barnes and Cooper Neese prop bets in play. Nice. Someone needs to give me more prop bets like this rather quickly - maybe we can have a prop bet thread where you put your entire username on the line. I'm thinking about also putting my line on JS actually getting a technical foul this year - he's rather chill but I'm thinking about taking the over on 1 technical foul.


LOL thought that was you! Have to admit I wish I could say what I just said with my chest like you. Just don't have enough info to go there. 

That being said, that's exactly what I think. Neese won't start 5 games. A week or so ago I told my buddies he won't start any games this year. Not 1. Maybe I got caught up in the moment after all the signings. And I really like Coop. Always have. I'm just looking at where he is a plus, what he is willing to do, what we need, and projecting ahead based on our current roster. The only area that I see him as a plus is shooting the dadgum ball. He's not a plus ball handler, decision maker, play maker, defender, rebounder. If I thought he would shoot the rock like he was at Cloverdale then I'd project him as a starter. But since I've watched him pump fake a million times in a Sycamore uni, I fully expect him to do that going foward. Thus I don't think he'll start.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

CardLake49 said:


> LOL thought that was you! Have to admit I wish I could say what I just said with my chest like you. Just don't have enough info to go there.
> 
> That being said, that's exactly what I think. Neese won't start 5 games. A week or so ago I told my buddies he won't start any games this year. Not 1. Maybe I got caught up in the moment after all the signings. And I really like Coop. Always have. I'm just looking at where he is a plus, what he is willing to do, what we need, and projecting ahead based on our current roster. The only area that I see him as a plus is shooting the dadgum ball. He's not a plus ball handler, decision maker, play maker, defender, rebounder. If I thought he would shoot the rock like he was at Cloverdale then I'd project him as a starter. But since I've watched him pump fake a million times in a Sycamore uni, I fully expect him to do that going foward. Thus I don't think he'll start.



I’m good for a $100 to CardLake if Cooper Neese doesn’t start 5 games this year. Who’s with me?

If Cooper is healthy and doesn’t start 5 games this year… we will have a hell of a team to have him coming off our bench.


----------



## sycamorebacker

sycamorebacker said:


> Martin could if he is the #3 PG.  We'll need to see if Gibson is good enough to be Larry's backup.


I'm going to take this back.  I forgot about Miller.  I think that guy can play.  

It's also possible Gibson can see wing time, but I think McCauley is going to be hard to beat for minutes. 
We know Henry has locked up one perimeter spot.  That leaves 2-3 more with several candidates, so I feel pretty good we'll have guys to fill the spots.  
I like experience and having 6 SRs should be a real plus.


----------



## Huff77

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> I’m good for a $100 to CardLake if Cooper Neese doesn’t start 5 games this year. Who’s with me?
> 
> If Cooper is healthy and doesn’t start 5 games this year… we will have a hell of a team to have him coming off our bench.


I already owe Cardlake 2 dinners.
He and I have been mulling over whether or not a certain off year Mr. Basketball sitting the bench in Gloomington could help this team or not.


----------



## sycamorebacker

dino said:


> I just wonder if you’ve watched some bad games and that’s what your impression of him is based on. You wouldn’t want to show somebody Brenton Scott’s final game as a sycamore and try to convince them he had a decent college


That may be possible.  The guy has got great career stats.  It could also be that he was playing with an injury. 

From what I saw, I would compare him stat-wise with Bledson or Larry, BUT that is not a bad thing if it works out that way.  Gibson has the ability to play with maturity and can pass very well, like Bledson. 
I think we need some new guys like him.  I'm not totally convinced Neese is fully committed and really has his head in the game.  It seems like he should have been more consistent from game to game and he needs to play smarter.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Huff77 said:


> I already owe Cardlake 2 dinners.
> He and I have been mulling over whether or not a certain off year Mr. Basketball sitting the bench in Gloomington could help this team or not.


Are you talking about Leal?


----------



## Huff77

sycamorebacker said:


> I'm not totally convinced Neese is fully committed and really has his head in the game.


I am 100% in agreement with this.  I believe he believes he is 100% committed, but...


----------



## dino

3-4 starter caliber players will be coming off the bench every game. That’s the kind of depth that the best valley teams have.  Surely there will be plenty of lineup combinations so everybody can earn a start here and there by competing in practice. How players deal with not starting will likely be a huge factor. Winning will make it easier.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> I’m good for a $100 to CardLake if Cooper Neese doesn’t start 5 games this year. Who’s with me?
> 
> If Cooper is healthy and doesn’t start 5 games this year… we will have a hell of a team to have him coming off our bench.


I’m good for $100 + I’m leaving the forum if he doesn’t start 5 games.

And you guys questioning Cooper Neese who I literally have zero bias toward are fucking hilarious. Go look at any post in history about him that I’ve ever made - no bias.

Key leaves and we question his motives.

Cooper comes here after transferring from Butler. Has productive years on shitty ass teams. Stays.

And you ass hats question his dedication. Stop. Already. You literally have a kid that is Sycamore through and through and you don’t think he’s about that life. Willing to bet your only online life that exists on him stating 5 games on an 11 win team.

This forum has gotten silly. You all have lost your GD mind. You will never be happy with anything if you question Cooper Neese. He has done his time - he has done a hell of a job for us.


----------



## treeman

Things I've read on sycamorepride today:

1. Neese isn't starting 5 games this season.
2. Gibson has Neese's handles, Larry's shot, and Bledson's athletic ability. (I believe that creates the worst player in D1 history)
3. Mervis is in the portal

what a day


----------



## Huff77

sycamorebacker said:


> Are you talking about Leal?


I am...and full disclaimer, my wife is somehow related to him so I have a bias.  Kid is super intelligent and can flat out ball when he's not having his confidence destroyed by the cream and crimson.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I’m good for $100 + I’m leaving the forum if he doesn’t start 5 games.
> 
> And you guys questioning Cooper Neese who I literally have zero bias toward are fucking hilarious. Go look at any post in history about him that I’ve ever made - no bias.
> 
> Key leaves and we question his motives.
> 
> Cooper comes here after transferring from Butler. Has productive years on shitty ass teams. Stays.
> 
> And you ass hats question his dedication. Stop. Already. You literally have a kid that is Sycamore through and through and you don’t think he’s about that life. Willing to bet your only online life that exists on him stating 5 games on an 11 win team.
> 
> This forum has gotten silly. You all have lost your GD mind. You will never be happy with anything if you question Cooper Neese. He has done his time - he has done a hell of a job for us.



I would say Cooper has probably come as close to maxing out his ability as anyone I’ve seen at State in years. He’s not blessed with crap tons in athletic ability, he’s not a great passer, and his shot is streaky. But damn, the boy PLAYS. He leaves it all out there. So I get what guys are saying when they wonder if he’s “all in,” but after watching him last year, I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. And maybe by NOT being our Option #1, it will open up his game and he can be that dagger guy, giving him a tremendous ending to his career in blue. 

But as the great Tates Locke told us in class, starting only means something to mothers and girlfriends. Whatever his role, I expect Coop will leave it all on the floor.


----------



## Huff77

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I’m good for $100 + I’m leaving the forum if he doesn’t start 5 games.
> 
> And you guys questioning Cooper Neese who I literally have zero bias toward are fucking hilarious. Go look at any post in history about him that I’ve ever made - no bias.
> 
> Key leaves and we question his motives.
> 
> Cooper comes here after transferring from Butler. Has productive years on shitty ass teams. Stays.
> 
> And you ass hats question his dedication. Stop. Already. You literally have a kid that is Sycamore through and through and you don’t think he’s about that life. Willing to bet your only online life that exists on him stating 5 games on an 11 win team.
> 
> This forum has gotten silly. You all have lost your GD mind. You will never be happy with anything if you question Cooper Neese. He has done his time - he has done a hell of a job for us.


I feel like you are assuming our commitment and dedication ratings for Cooper are 0/10.  I rate Cooper as 10/10 dedicated to ISU and 7/10 committed to basketball.  I think he was a 10 when he got here, but sometimes life happens.


----------



## Huff77

Huff77 said:


> I feel like you are assuming our commitment and dedication ratings for Cooper are 0/10.  I rate Cooper as 10/10 dedicated to ISU and 7/10 committed to basketball.  I think he was a 10 when he got here, but sometimes life happens.


Of course, now that I am thinking about it...he did avg like 135 minutes a game last year...so maybe I was just watching Cooper carry the burden of 3142 people on his shoulders all year.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

Coop averaged damn near 40 min per game in the conference and I never once questioned if we was giving full effort.  He was the only glue we had last season.

There’s a difference between dedication and being somewhat limited athletically as well as staying fresh while playing those minutes.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> Things I've read on sycamorepride today:
> 
> 1. Neese isn't starting 5 games this season.
> 2. Gibson has Neese's handles, Larry's shot, and Bledson's athletic ability. (I believe that creates the worst player in D1 history)
> 3. Mervis is in the portal
> 
> what a day


----------



## sycamorebacker

treeman said:


> (I believe that creates the worst player in D1 history)


Oh, I don't know.  Those three guys had 62 starts this year.


----------



## CardLake49

*How bold I feel about my Coop claim after all this discussion lol*


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Huff77 said:


> I feel like you are assuming our commitment and dedication ratings for Cooper are 0/10.  I rate Cooper as 10/10 dedicated to ISU and 7/10 committed to basketball.  I think he was a 10 when he got here, but sometimes life happens.



You’re exactly right - life does happen to all of these college athletes. I actually think the opposite of you though. I think when he got here he was very immature, wasn’t a leader, didn’t go to class and didn’t take care of his body like a D1 college athlete should. All of this would lead one to question an athletes “commitment”. He’s coming back for an additional year - he could have moved on with LIFE as you put it complete if he wasn’t committed. I think he has matured quite a bit, he’s a leader now, he doesn’t skip class and he takes care of his body. So while life happens and I don’t know Cooper personally - he doesn’t appear to be someone who is 70% in. The guy is literally coming back to play an additional year for an 11 win team. If you were slightly not committed to #BallisLife then an 11 win team would be an easy excuse to move on.


----------



## CardLake49

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You’re exactly right - life does happen to all of these college athletes. I actually think the opposite of you though. I think when he got here he was very immature, wasn’t a leader, didn’t go to class and didn’t take care of his body like a D1 college athlete should. All of this would lead one to question an athletes “commitment”. He’s coming back for an additional year - he could have moved on with LIFE as you put it complete if he wasn’t committed. I think he has matured quite a bit, he’s a leader now, he doesn’t skip class and he takes care of his body. So while life happens and I don’t know Cooper personally - he doesn’t appear to be someone who is 70% in. The guy is literally coming back to play an additional year for an 11 win team. If you were slightly not committed to #BallisLife then an 11 win team would be an easy excuse to move on.


Good point on the maturation stuff.


----------



## rapala

Backer I wanted to follow some of your evaluations, where and when did you coach basketball.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

rapala said:


> Backer I wanted to follow some of your evaluations, where and when did you coach basketball.



Backer please private message him... Honestly.


----------



## sycamorebacker

rapala said:


> Backer I wanted to follow some of your evaluations, where and when did you coach basketball.


I'm not a coach.  Why do you want to know?


----------



## sycamorebacker

sycamorebacker said:


> I'm not a basketball coach.  I was a 3-time state champion softball coach and coached a team to #13 in the nation.  And I was dorm runner-up in ping pong and I won a dorm euchre tournament.


I did not enter the egg or hot dog eating contest, though.  And I'm not a bad cook.  But, best of all, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.


----------



## bigsportsfan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521254410332037125


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> I'm not a coach.  Why do you want to know?



He wants to know everything you know… Drop him a DM.


----------



## bigsportsfan




----------



## Huff77

bigsportsfan said:


> View attachment 1739


How does a NBA first round projection's skill set translate into MVC second team selection?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Huff77 said:


> How does a NBA first round projection's skill set translate into MVC second team selection?



skill growth and development?

too little Valley-wide respect for the previous school's MBB program?


----------



## TreeTop

Huff77 said:


> How does a NBA first round projection's skill set translate into MVC second team selection?


You're referring to his Sophomore year MVC second team selection but not his Junior year ACC second team selection? Interesting.


----------



## EvilleSycamore

Deleted


----------



## TreeTop

Deleted, as well.


----------



## Huff77

TreeTop said:


> You're referring to his Sophomore year MVC second team selection but not his Junior year ACC second team selection? Interesting.


Gotta admit...didn't know he was 2nd team ACC as well.  The only Laravia ACC data I had came from this site and one watched game in the ACC tourney.


----------



## CardLake49

bigsportsfan said:


> View attachment 1739


Thanks for posting this, I can't access this article. Is there anyone else out there who has recent draft stuff out there? Almost all the stuff I see is a month old. I did find this evaluation, updated a week ago, that matches most of what i've seen.






						Jake LaRavia – NBA Scouting Live
					






					www.nbascoutinglive.com
				




There's a big difference between saying here are the 60 best prospects and saying here is how I think each team will draft. For Jake to be drafted he needs a team with a selection who views him as the best option for whatever need they have. This is why every single year there are still guys in the green room or whatever its called (has covid eliminated this?) looking stupid when the 1st round, or the entire draft, is over. 

The draft combine is in 2 weeks and we'll know alot more after that. I'm guessing Jake will get his combine invite soon.


----------



## bigsportsfan

CardLake49 said:


> Thanks for posting this, I can't access this article. Is there anyone else out there who has recent draft stuff out there? Almost all the stuff I see is a month old. I did find this evaluation, updated a week ago, that matches most of what i've seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake LaRavia – NBA Scouting Live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbascoutinglive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a big difference between saying here are the 60 best prospects and saying here is how I think each team will draft. For Jake to be drafted he needs a team with a selection who views him as the best option for whatever need they have. This is why every single year there are still guys in the green room or whatever its called (has covid eliminated this?) looking stupid when the 1st round, or the entire draft, is over.
> 
> The draft combine is in 2 weeks and we'll know alot more after that. I'm guessing Jake will get his combine invite soon.


It’s all over the place. This one from last week has him as No. 56 out of 58 (two picks forfeited).





						NBA Mock Draft - NBADraft.net
					

Specializing in drafts with top players on the NBA horizon, player profiles, scouting reports, rankings and prospective international recruits.



					www.nbadraft.net


----------



## child

Good luck Jake see ya in the Euro zone!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

We're giving waaaaaay too much energy to a guy that didn't even want to be here, won't be using State as his school, so on and so forth. 

If you guys only gave the same thought and care to our current guys.


----------



## child

Jake's only hope is that he becomes a lights-out three pt shooter, and he wasn't that here.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Where did Tucker end up?


----------



## sycamorebacker

child said:


> Jake's only hope is that he becomes a lights-out three pt shooter, and he wasn't that here.


This is not true.  Jake is an all-around player.  Handles, passes, rebounds and shoots.  If he is limited it will be matched up against larger players or quicker players.


----------



## BankShot

southernindianaballer said:


> Where did Tucker end up?


He's gonna play for Mahurin down @ your old stomping ground w/ G.R. Clark & boyz...


----------



## BankShot

No tweets, excl. ref. to Micah Thomas @ Nicholls & Dime State...



			https://twitter.com/thatboy_tuck


----------



## SycfromBirth

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523677255603474432

HCJS mentioned adding another 4-year player?  Did I miss something?


----------



## sycamorebacker

He didn't say that.


----------



## SycfromBirth

sycamorebacker said:


> He didn't say that.


At around the 1:18 mark he said, "We're going to add one more piece that we'll announce here later." So, maybe not another 4-year, I guess.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

I think that's referencing Masen Miller.  He's walking on, so he cannot sign, and I don't believe they can talk about him until he's on campus.  I could be wrong, but that would fit...


----------



## sycamorebacker

IndyTreeFan said:


> I think that's referencing Masen Miller.  He's walking on, so he cannot sign, and I don't believe they can talk about him until he's on campus.  I could be wrong, but that would fit...


I'm sure that is correct.  Didn't he say 2 3-yr guys and 2 4-yr?  Miller is a 3.  He was talking about those 4, Larry and Crawford as being the foundation for the next 3 years.


----------



## BankShot

Sturtz II:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466608988456472580


----------



## jsetliff5

I'm seeing on Jake Lieberman's twitter that there's a 6'8 kid from Chicago (Class of 2022) that the Sycamores are looking at heavily.


----------



## bluestreak

This guy.


----------



## Bluethunder

BankShot said:


> Sturtz II:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466608988456472580


Reminds me of Tyson Schnitker’s shot to beat Butler at Hinkle.

What a great day that was.


----------



## BankShot

Bluethunder said:


> Reminds me of Tyson Schnitker’s shot to beat Butler at Hinkle.
> 
> What a great day that was.


Then he transferred to USI...


----------



## jsetliff5

Just wondering, but could they technically split scholarships with grad transfers and possibly make up the difference with education scholarships? 
Just curious as to how that process would work if they do bring someone else in.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

jsetliff5 said:


> Just wondering, but could they technically split scholarships with grad transfers and possibly make up the difference with education scholarships?
> Just curious as to how that process would work if they do bring someone else in.



Hoops is a full equivalency sport. Can't split and can't go over 13 -- except for when the NCAA allowed the COVID overage last year. I don't believe they extended that.


----------



## EvilleSycamore

BankShot said:


> Then he transferred to USI...


ISU has been the best recruiting pipeline for Southern Indiana over the past few years. Schnitker, Clayton Hughes, now Hittle.


----------



## BankShot

EvilleSycamore said:


> ISU has been the best recruiting pipeline for Southern Indiana over the past few years. Schnitker, Clayton Hughes, now Hittle.


Don't forget the 6'9" Charlestown transfer, CHAD GILBERT, who led USI to the '94-95 Div II Championship.









						Q&A: Former USI men's basketball standout Chad Gilbert talks playing days, life as a coach, AD
					

From his playing days as the "Big Smooth" at USI to now enjoying life as an athletic director at his alma mater Charlestown, Chad Gilbert has seen it all.



					www.courierpress.com
				












						Gilbert to be honored by USI Hall of Fame
					

Charlestown graduate and current Jeffersonville girls’ basketball coach Chad Gilbert was one of six former University of Southern Indiana athletes selected to enter the USI Hall of Fame.




					www.newsandtribune.com
				












						Gilbert named to Indiana Hall of Fame Silver Anniversary Team - University of Southern Indiana Athletics
					

EVANSVILLE, Ind. --  Former University of Southern Indiana men's basketball player Chad Gilbert '97 (1994-96) was selected for the 2016 Men's Silver Anniversary




					gousieagles.com


----------



## Bob Evans

BankShot said:


> Don't forget the 6'9" Charlestown transfer, CHAD GILBERT, who led USI to the '94-95 Div II Championship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q&A: Former USI men's basketball standout Chad Gilbert talks playing days, life as a coach, AD
> 
> 
> From his playing days as the "Big Smooth" at USI to now enjoying life as an athletic director at his alma mater Charlestown, Chad Gilbert has seen it all.
> 
> 
> 
> www.courierpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gilbert to be honored by USI Hall of Fame
> 
> 
> Charlestown graduate and current Jeffersonville girls’ basketball coach Chad Gilbert was one of six former University of Southern Indiana athletes selected to enter the USI Hall of Fame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsandtribune.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gilbert named to Indiana Hall of Fame Silver Anniversary Team - University of Southern Indiana Athletics
> 
> 
> EVANSVILLE, Ind. --  Former University of Southern Indiana men's basketball player Chad Gilbert '97 (1994-96) was selected for the 2016 Men's Silver Anniversary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gousieagles.com


My memory of the team his last year at ISU is that they basically gave up trying and it spelled the end for Tates Locke. I think Locke said there was nothing that that team was good at. Usually a team is good at some aspect of the game (free throws, some category or another). Not according to Locke. I think I've got the right year for when he said that.


----------



## BankShot

Bob Evans said:


> My memory of the team his last year at ISU is that they basically gave up trying and it spelled the end for Tates Locke. I think Locke said there was nothing that that team was good at. Usually a team is good at some aspect of the game (free throws, some category or another). Not according to Locke. I think I've got the right year for when he said that.


Funny how these coaches end up as NBA "scouts"...but that's how the coaching fraternity works!  It's more like the old India caste system.


----------



## blueblazer

sycamorebacker said:


> This is not true.  Jake is an all-around player.  Handles, passes, rebounds and shoots.  If he is limited it will be matched up against larger players or quicker players


Please re to Jason’s last post on Jake


----------



## sycamorebacker

blueblazer said:


> Please re to Jason’s last post on Jake


Huh?


----------



## jturner38

jsetliff5 said:


> I'm seeing on Jake Lieberman's twitter that there's a 6'8 kid from Chicago (Class of 2022) that the Sycamores are looking at heavily.


He just committed to Central Michigan


----------



## bigsportsfan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534002259796938753


----------



## CardLake49

bigsportsfan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534002259796938753


Good luck to Q, hope he can stay healthy. Really interested to see how he develops.


----------



## bigsportsfan

CardLake49 said:


> Good luck to Q, hope he can stay healthy. Really interested to see how he develops.


Agree. We never really got to see what he could do.


----------

