# 2021-2022 Eligibility Chart



## Jason Svoboda

*Senior Eligibility (3)*
G Tyreke Key
G Cooper Neese
G Cameron Henry
G Cam Bacote (Transferring)
C Ndongo Ndaw (Transferring)

*Junior Eligibility (4)*
G Zach Hobbs
G Xavier Bledson
F Kailex Stephens
C Dearon Tucker
F Cobie Barnes (Transferred)
F Tre Williams (Transferred)
F Jake LaRavia (Transferred)

*Sophomore Eligiblity (4)*
G Jared Hankins * (Transferring)
G Julian Larry
G Micah Thomas *
C Simon Wilbar
G Sam Mervis !

*Freshman Eligiblity (3)*
G Quimari Peterson
G Cameron Crawford
C Nick Hittle *
Open

*Legend*
* Denotes Redshirt
# Denotes Medical Redshirt
! Denotes Walk-On


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## Jason Svoboda

Time to get this one up. Provided everything sticks as it is today, we've got 2 spots remaining in the 2021 class. As it sits above, I wouldn't be surprised if they go after a JUCO or upperclassman guard transfer as we'll be very front court heavy.


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## bluestreak

Thats a hell of a junior class.


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## Jason Svoboda

Added Calderon after his commitment tonight.

Interesting with the recent PG offer and it looking like we're going to be very guard heavy. Will be interesting to see if we've got player movement. Otherwise you've got to have a big with the last spot, no?


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## ISUCC

Unfortunately I think this eliminates Luke Brown from ever coming to ISU. I'm guessing he'll wind up at Ball State


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## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> Unfortunately I think this eliminates Luke Brown from ever coming to ISU. I'm guessing he'll wind up at Ball State


I'd say he probably was crossed off when Hale committed. If not, he had ample time to commit and chose not to. So either he no longer had an actionable offer or he didn't want to be here.


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## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Added Calderon after his commitment tonight.
> 
> Interesting with the recent PG offer and it looking like we're going to be very guard heavy. Will be interesting to see if we've got player movement. Otherwise you've got to have a big with the last spot, no?



I agree.  A PF-type or another developmental wing player would be good.  We're going to need to bring in some size to eventually replace Jake and Tre in the frontcourt.  We have Hittle (big unknown at this point), but we're going to need to backfill some big-man depth at some point.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Added Calderon after his commitment tonight.
> 
> Interesting with the recent PG offer and it looking like we're going to be very guard heavy. Will be interesting to see if we've got player movement. Otherwise you've got to have a big with the last spot, no?


We have 1 SO, 2 JR, and 1 SR that can play C.  I don't see why we have to get a big now unless we can get a real good one.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> We have 1 SO, 2 JR, and 1 SR that can play C.  I don't see why we have to get a big now unless we can get a real good one.


The best way to look at the eligibility chart is for the year after what is displayed above since none of our freshmen are usually required to come in and play. By that time we'll basically have 4 front court players left on the roster (provided they're all still here) and we have no idea if Hittle is a contributor or not yet. If you're comfortable with that, that looks like one injury or one foul out away from being a fire drill.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> The best way to look at the eligibility chart is for the year after what is displayed above since none of our freshmen are usually required to come in and play. By that time we'll basically have 4 front court players left on the roster (provided they're all still here) and we have no idea if Hittle is a contributor or not yet. If you're comfortable with that, that looks like one injury or one foul out away from being a fire drill.


That's 2 years away.  We always want a "supply" of quality big men, but Williams and LaRavia, if here and healthy, will get most of the minutes for 3 more years.  
If you want to look at 22-23, we only have one PG too.   In 22, we only have 2 PG's and Bacote didn't show a lot last year.  I'm sure they are working hard to keep us covered. 
I thought we would have a good shot at Jacobi, but he is a Renn-type PF, athletically, from what I have seen of him.


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## Jason Svoboda

Added Brett Bosley to the freshman eligibility section. He will be a preferred walk-on.


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## Jason Svoboda

Subject to change.


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## DyedBlue

A post-Lansing, everyone released to transfer, unknown replacement prediction based on nothing, just like Seinfeld.

Most likely to return:
Neese
Williams
Bacote,
Ndaw
Hale
Hittle

Most likely gone:
Barnes
Laravia
Larry
Calderon

Others:  No guess


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## Gotta Hav

DyedBlue said:


> A post-Lansing, everyone released to transfer, unknown replacement prediction based on nothing, just like Seinfeld.
> 
> Most likely to return:
> Neese
> Williams
> Bacote,
> Ndaw
> Hale
> Hittle
> 
> Most likely gone:
> Barnes
> Laravia
> Larry
> Calderon
> 
> *Others:  No guess*



So the the other categories aren't guesses?


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## child

Can't Key come back if he wants to?


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## bluestreak

I think any chance of Key returning depends on Lansings return


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## sycamorebacker

child said:


> Can't Key come back if he wants to?


Yes, but I think he needs to rest his body for a while.


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## Jason Svoboda

With Barnes announcing his transfer, that opens up a 2nd scholarship spot. More to come, I'm sure.


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## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> Yes, but I think he needs to rest his body for a while.



Rest his body??   For the NBA draft?  For the G-League draft?   For signing a solid deal in one of the better leagues in Europe?


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## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> With Barnes announcing his transfer, that opens up a 2nd scholarship spot. More to come, I'm sure.



Up to 4 open spots now.


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## pbutler218

Well I guess these guys didn't come here to represent the university. What a shame. Good luck to them elsewhere.


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## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> Up to 4 open spots now.


Looks like a whole new roster will be needed for next year. Look for a plethora of transfers.


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## Jason Svoboda

Well... lots and lots of opportunity for the next group of Sycamores.


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## Gotta Hav

child said:


> Can't Key come back if he wants to?


Why in the world would he want to?   Time for him to move on and go pro...and if Fred Vanvleet can have the career he's had in the NBA.....what is stopping Key?  IMO, he's really never had, or given himself the opportunity to show what he can really do in GL's plodding offense.


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## TreeTop

Wouldn't Nick Hittle have Freshman eligibility next year, since he didn't play this year?


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## sycamorebacker

TreeTop said:


> Wouldn't Nick Hittle have Freshman eligibility next year, since he didn't play this year?


Yes.  Technically the transfers are not gone and nobody lost a year this year.

Hittle has 5 more years if the coaches approve.


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## Jason Svoboda




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## tennessee

I am slightly surprised offers haven't started to go out already. 

I guess there is no rush if the kids we're going to be recruiting, JUCO, high school, transfers, etc. won't be able to enroll until the summer semester.


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## Jason Svoboda

tennessee said:


> I am slightly surprised offers haven't started to go out already.
> 
> I guess there is no rush if the kids we're going to be recruiting, JUCO, high school, transfers, etc. won't be able to enroll until the summer semester.



I know coaches have to take and pass a test on NCAA and recruiting rules before they're allowed to recruit in an official capacity. I don't know if they are different from D2 to D1 so it is possible there could be a hang up there, especially with everything going on.


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## Jason Svoboda

Lots and lots of PT available.


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## pbutler218

So.....who can we realistically expect to come back? We should be putting out a  lot of offers soon I would think.


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## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> So.....who can we realistically expect to come back? We should be putting out a  lot of offers soon I would think.


Well, as of right now, Larry and Hittle.


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## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> Well, as of right now, Larry and Hittle.


My gut tells me that Cooper will stick around.


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## Jason Svoboda

So 2 of the 7 transfers are officially gone. Paired with our one last spot, we officially have 3 hard scholarships of the 8 potential spots open.


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## 4Q_iu

TreeTop said:


> My gut tells me that Cooper will stick around.



Why is that Mr. Peterson?  A rumor passed by Cliffy in the back pool room?   A note passed by the Hostess at the Hungry Heifer?


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## TreeTop

4Q_iu said:


> Why is that Mr. Peterson?  A rumor passed by Cliffy in the back pool room?   A note passed by the Hostess at the Hungry Heifer?


Haha.

No reason other than it just kinda makes sense for him to stay.


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## Jason Svoboda

Another spot open with the Hale departure.


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## pbutler218

Not looking like they'll be any or "maybe" a couple holdovers. I just don't see Ndaw fitting the new system. Not sure about Larry. Kid can't shoot. I wonder if we're close to signing anyone?


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## bigsportsfan

I see we have offered several people but most times we are in a long list. I wonder if we have put a deadline on our portal people, or if we just give them all the time thru need.........


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## Jason Svoboda

You want PT? We got PT.


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## BlueBleeder

Jason Svoboda said:


> You want PT? We got PT.


So....is it between us and ETSU for the most transfers leaving one team?  I would be really surprised if a couple guys don't decide to stay, but would be nice to know soon.


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## Jason Svoboda

BlueBleeder said:


> So....is it between us and ETSU for the most transfers leaving one team?  I would be really surprised if a couple guys don't decide to stay, but would be nice to know soon.


No, Tennessee-Martin had every single kid go.


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## Blue Streaker

I think national signing day is next Wednesday April 14th.  Avance who we have offered said he won't announce until May 2nd.  The signing period starts next week and does not end until August 1st, but I cannot imagine any HS athlete waiting to long to sign taking a chance of transfers filling up roster spots.


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## BlueBleeder

Jason Svoboda said:


> No, Tennessee-Martin had every single kid go.


That's the school i was thinking of, not ETSU.  Thank you for the correction.  I was not aware the entire team hit the portal though.


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## Jason Svoboda

BlueBleeder said:


> That's the school i was thinking of, not ETSU.  Thank you for the correction.  I was not aware the entire team hit the portal though.



I just looked again, they have one guy left.


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## Blue Streaker

I think Tennessee Martin lost everyone on their roster too.  Other schools with a lot of transfers are Portland with 13, and Albany with 10


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## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> My gut tells me that Cooper will stick around.



I think with the Moore tweet he may be joining him at Oakland.


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## rapala

TreeTop said:


> Wouldn't Nick Hittle have Freshman eligibility next year, since he didn't play this year?


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## Jason Svoboda

Will Henry, Bledson and Wilbar in the fold, we had 7 spots left open. 

If Key, Neese, Stephens and Miller all come back, that would leave 3. The most glaring spots right now are likely PG and finding that stretch/point 4.


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## Bingoman

Jason Svoboda said:


> Will Henry, Bledson and Wilbar in the fold, we had 7 spots left open.
> 
> If Key, Neese, Stephens and Miller all come back, that would leave 3. The most glaring spots right now are likely PG and finding that stretch/point 4.


We may need a pure center who can stretch the floor too. Wilbar may be the guy but I might want an older guy we could use for a year or so.


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## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Will Henry, Bledson and Wilbar in the fold, we had 7 spots left open.
> 
> If Key, Neese, Stephens and Miller all come back, that would leave 3. The most glaring spots right now are likely PG and finding that stretch/point 4.



Make that 8/4.


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## sycamorebacker

Confusing, but the current roster shows 8.  That leaves 7 openings if the school is willing to pay for the 2 extra.


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## pbutler218

I think the two guys I'm really concerned with staying other than Stephens are Neese and Key. Key is listed on the "official" (lol) gosycamores roster, but Neese is not. Remember, Neese DID announce he was transferring. I would hope to know for certain about these two soon.


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## bluestreak

Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part, but this is interesting


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## bluestreak

I asked Tom James who retweeted this from #MarchOn and he didn't have any additional info.


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## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Make that 8/4.



Now 6/2. That's 6 openings if Key, Neese, Stephens and Miller don't come back and 2 if they all return.


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## treeman

Jason Svoboda said:


> Now 6/2. That's 6 openings if Key, Neese, Stephens and Miller don't come back and 2 if they all return.


If Miller or Key come back do they count against our scholarship limit?


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## meistro

Would like to see us get a good juco or grad transfer big man. But I really like how the team is coming together.


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## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> If Miller or Key come back do they count against our scholarship limit?



I believe they do. I cannot find anything on NCAA.org stating they instituted the same scholarship cap changes they did with spring sports from last year.

If someone else wants to dig through their COVID stuff, it's here: https://www.ncaa.org/sport-science-institute/covid-19-coronavirus ... Maybe I missed it.


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## Jason Svoboda

meistro said:


> Would like to see us get a good juco or grad transfer big man. But I really like how the team is coming together.


I would like to get Valpo's Ognacevic. I think he is a system fit and he showed he could play this year as a freshman.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> I believe they do. I cannot find anything on NCAA.org stating they instituted the same scholarship cap changes they did with spring sports from last year.
> 
> If someone else wants to dig through their COVID stuff, it's here: https://www.ncaa.org/sport-science-institute/covid-19-coronavirus ... Maybe I missed it.


I thought they do not count based on what I read.  But that assumes ISU would pay for 15.  It might be moot.  We probably don't need more than 13, assuming we can fill the roster.
Shouldn't Cooper and Stephens be JR's in the eligibility chart?
If that's the case, we would have no SR's in the 13.


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## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> I would like to get Valpo's Ognacevic. I think he is a system fit and he showed he could play this year as a freshman.


I would certainly take him. He was one of the nation's best three point shooters and has decent size (6'8) and still young.


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## Jason Svoboda

So with today's TribStar article mentioning some returning guys out of the portal and Miller opting in on the gratis year, that is now 9 under scholarship leaving 4 more openings. It sounds like one is earmarked for Key and will be held as long as need be so theoretically they have 3 to play with and 2 if Neese buys in. 

So with that in mind, they needs bigs. Preferably one banger and one stretch 4 shooter. The new coach Boisvert is out recruiting what appears to be the banger 5 type from the JUCO ranks and if Valpo's Jacob Ognacevic wants to be that stretch 4, we essentially can call it a day.


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## sycamorebacker

So you don't think  they will go over 13?  Is that based on PT or $?

From what I have seen in videos, Stephens, Wilbar and Hittle can ALL "stretch."


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## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> So you don't think  they will go over 13?  Is that based on PT or $?
> 
> From what I have seen in videos, Stephens, Wilbar and Hittle can ALL "stretch."



ISU still has to cover the cost of those scholarships;  doubt the Varsity Club can swing the cost of all of them


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## sycamorebacker

4Q_iu said:


> ISU still has to cover the cost of those scholarships;  doubt the Varsity Club can swing the cost of all of them


I can also see PT issues.  That rule was made to cover overflows on teams that already had fr signed or committed.  With all the transfers the rule is not really necessary.  
Will be crowded for incoming fr.


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## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> I can also see PT issues.  That rule was made to cover overflows on teams that already had fr signed or committed.  With all the transfers the rule is not really necessary.
> Will be crowded for incoming fr.



Horse Apples!   That rule was designed PURELY to "balance" title IX...    football gave many but the SWA's of the NCAA also went after men's basketball.

Remember, MBB used to have 15 scholarships, just like the WBB teams.   Now, the WBB have 15 and the MBB have 13

scholarship reductions played ZERO role w/ "overflows"

hell -- FBS football USED to have 120 scholarships, no teams were concerned w/ overflows at that time


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## swsycamore

Gotta Hav said:


> Why in the world would he want to?   Time for him to move on and go pro...and if Fred Vanvleet can have the career he's had in the NBA.....what is stopping Key?  IMO, he's really never had, or given himself the opportunity to show what he can really do in GL's plodding offense.


Hey, Larry Bird came back for another year instead of going pro.  Would love to see Tyreke do that.


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## sycamorebacker

I'm reading that some underclassmen this year say they probably do not want their extra year of eligibility.  That throws our chart in limbo.
We may need to reduce the years remaining of eligibility by one.

And I'm anxious to see the news that Peterson has signed.  I'm afraid some big guys may have tried to intercept us.  
I love to watch him play.  I still can't tell if he is a step slower than the high major guards.  He is a little shorter, but he looks fast enough to me. 
I would like to see him in all-star action playing against "higher" rated kids.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> I'm reading that some underclassmen this year say they probably do not want their extra year of eligibility.  That throws our chart in limbo.
> We may need to reduce the years remaining of eligibility by one.
> 
> And I'm anxious to see the news that Peterson has signed.  I'm afraid some big guys may have tried to intercept us.
> I love to watch him play.  I still can't tell if he is a step slower than the high major guards.  He is a little shorter, but he looks fast enough to me.
> I would like to see him in all-star action playing against "higher" rated kids.



Not really. It was always up to the staff if they wanted to give the extra eligibility. Remember, all scholarships are one year grants that can be renewed every year. Doesn't mean they have to be.

As for Peterson, Loyola would be my concern. Chicago is Chicago and Valentine is likely going to be a hot name. He had Draymond Green being photographed in Loyola gear after he got the job. He's going to pull whatever punches necessary to land guys he wants.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Not really. It was always up to the staff if they wanted to give the extra eligibility. Remember, all scholarships are one year grants that can be renewed every year. Doesn't mean they have to be.


It's bad for fans.  Now we won't know how many openings they will be recruiting for until we hear if a player is leaving or staying the extra year.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Not really. It was always up to the staff if they wanted to give the extra eligibility. Remember, all scholarships are one year grants that can be renewed every year. Doesn't mean they have to be.


Yes, really.  It might make a big difference if Henry plays for us 2 years or just 1 year.  We'll have to see how he does in the Valley, but I expect him to do well.


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## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> It's bad for fans.  Now we won't know how many openings they will be recruiting for until we hear if a player is leaving or staying the extra year.



That's the norm today, COVID has added a wrinkle but there's ALWAYS been movement across programs, especially when there's a coaching change


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## Jason Svoboda

Cooper keeps mentioning next chapter so it really sounds like he is done here.


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## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> Cooper keeps mentioning next chapter so it really sounds like he is done here.


It’s too bad because Schertz’s system seems like it’s such a good fit for him.


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## BlueBleeder

TreeTop said:


> It’s too bad because Schertz’s system seems like it’s such a good fit for him.


I was told Cooper was no longer in the transfer portal, is that not correct?


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## treeman

Does anyone know what’s going on with Cooper? He was the one big piece that I’d thought would stay. It would be unfortunate for him to head out, he could be remembered for having a very nice career here.


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## jben

According to the rumor mill he is gone....possibly to Oakland with former hs teammate Jalen Moore.


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## TreeTop

treeman said:


> Does anyone know what’s going on with Cooper?


The answer is no, nobody knows. Only rumors and speculation at this point.


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## 4Q_iu

treeman said:


> Does anyone know what’s going on with Cooper? He was the one big piece that I’d thought would stay. It would be unfortunate for him to head out, he could be remembered for having a very nice career here.



his decision to depart (if he does) is as unfortunate at Jake and Tre leaving; all would have been remembered for their ISU careers.    if he chooses to leave; just consider him another broken egg in that new omelette


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## treeman

4Q_iu said:


> his decision to depart (if he does) is as unfortunate at Jake and Tre leaving; all would have been remembered for their ISU careers.    if he chooses to leave; just consider him another broken egg in that new omelette


Not saying Jake and tre Aren’t/weren’t big loses. I just wasn’t shocked at all for them to leave, it was expected. Coop on the other hand is a localish small town kid about to enter his senior year with a coach that essentially caters to his style. It would be a surprise to see him go.


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## 4Q_iu

treeman said:


> Not saying Jake and tre Aren’t/weren’t big loses. I just wasn’t shocked at all for them to leave, it was expected. Coop on the other hand is a localish small town kid about to enter his senior year with a coach that essentially caters to his style. It would be a surprise to see him go.



agree but all bets are off wrt roster moves during a coaching change.   The Trees have RARELY had a players who have dreamt of wearing the royal blue and white since they first dribbled a basketball

if Neese decides to leave, it won't shock me


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## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> So with today's TribStar article mentioning some returning guys out of the portal and Miller opting in on the gratis year, that is now 9 under scholarship leaving 4 more openings. It sounds like one is earmarked for Key and will be held as long as need be so theoretically they have 3 to play with and 2 if Neese buys in.
> 
> So with that in mind, they needs bigs. Preferably one banger and one stretch 4 shooter. The new coach Boisvert is out recruiting what appears to be the banger 5 type from the JUCO ranks and if Valpo's Jacob Ognacevic wants to be that stretch 4, we essentially can call it a day.



3 spots left with Neese coming back.


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## Jason Svoboda

With us offering another PG, that could pretty much tell you the staff wants a PG, a big and then the last scholarship is a wildcard if Key doesn't take it. I know they said they don't plan on rushing him, but if they fill those two spots and Key still hasn't decided, they'll need to have some sort of clue so they don't lose out on getting a player.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Honestly - if Key doesn't come back I'd like to see us get 2 TRUE PG type of players. I have no confidence or stomach to watch Larry play D1 PG again. Glad to see that the staff agrees and are targeting some PG's.


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## sycamorebacker

I would expect Larry to be our starting PG next year and I'm looking forward to it.

We seem to disagree.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> I would expect Larry to be our starting PG next year and I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> We seem to disagree.



It's not even a disagreement at this point. He's not a D1 PG and I have a history of being right when I double down... So I guess we will see how this one plays out.


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## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> It's not even a disagreement at this point. He's not a D1 PG and I have a history of being right when I double down... So I guess we will see how this one plays out.


Well, I don't know what you are "thinking" but his stats prove otherwise.  Not even counting that my history is every bit as good as yours.


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## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> It's not even a disagreement at this point. He's not a D1 PG and I have a history of being right when I double down... So I guess we will see how this one plays out.


I want to respond to this again.  You might be right.  I've seen some good D2 PG's, and maybe he fits in there.  I guess we'll just see how it plays out.
I checked, though, and his stats compare ok with Moore, Barnes, Menser, Key, and Green.  I don't think any of them were even marginal.
I'm also a big Peterson fan, having watched a few games on youtube.  But I wouldn't describe him as fast; so we'll see how that turns out too.  I kind of felt like his speed
compared to D Brown.


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## Sycamorefan96

sycamorebacker said:


> I would expect Larry to be our starting PG next year and I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> We seem to disagree.


The fact that he got so much playing time as a freshman puts me in agreement. He also played pretty good defense. As with all freshmen you have to take the good with the bad, and I think he could end up being a really good PG for us.


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## Bluethunder

We wouldn’t even be having this discussion on Larry if he hadn’t been thrown into the starting lineup from day one. Had he been coming off the bench for spot duty like most freshman I don’t think many would be so down on him.

Lansing recruited two 5th year point guards from other Div I schools that couldn’t beat him out for a starting role. So if Larry isn’t good enough to play Div I then Lansing royally messed up recruiting the position last summer.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Sycamorefan96 said:


> The fact that he got so much playing time as a freshman puts me in agreement. He also played pretty good defense. As with all freshmen you have to take the good with the bad, and I think he could end up being a really good PG for us.


He got playing time because Cam Bacote missed half the season with family related issues. Howard missed or was in the dog house more than half the season because he violated team rules. He was literally the only option - so using this as a reason to agree with someone is basically flawed logic.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Bluethunder said:


> We wouldn’t even be having this discussion on Larry if he hadn’t been thrown into the starting lineup from day one. Had he been coming off the bench for spot duty like most freshman I don’t think many would be so down on him.
> 
> Lansing recruited two 5th year point guards from other Div I schools that couldn’t beat him out for a starting role. So if Larry isn’t good enough to play Div I then Lansing royally messed up recruiting the position last summer.



Randy Miller is not a PG. Lansing brought in one 5th year PG.

I would argue that us not having a decent PG last year kept us from being a serious threat and ultimately cost him his job. So yeah - he royally messed up.

Had Larry put his name in the transfer portal he wouldn’t have had a D1 offer and if he did - it would have been a bottom feeder.


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## 4Q_iu

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Randy Miller is not a PG. Lansing brought in one 5th year PG.
> 
> I would argue that us not having a decent PG last year kept us from being a serious threat and ultimately cost him his job. So yeah - he royally messed up.
> 
> Had Larry put his name in the transfer portal he wouldn’t have had a D1 offer and if he did - it would have been a bottom feeder.



PG play; in 2019-20 or 2020-21, had zero bearing on Lansing losing or retaining his job.


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## sycamorebacker

I would say not having an experienced PG hurt us.  Larry will be an excellent PG for us as soon is this next year.  You're just not patient enough.

Of our top 5 true FR PG's since Green and including Green, he had the fewest TO's and the 2nd highest A/TO ratio; and 2 less steals than Key and Green in a shortened season.  It has already been mentioned that his conference 3FG% was the same as our team average.  And I don't think you can say that he played bad defense or didn't hustle.  

I don't know what you expected or wanted.


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## sycamorebacker

By the way; if you think you are such a hotshot -- tell me which player of the 5 had the highest FG% and A/TO ratio as FR.  Two different players.  If you get them right 
without looking it up, I will forever say you are better than me.  

Anybody can guess, and I'm betting nobody gets them right.  

(Green, Moore, Barnes, Key, Menser)


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## jben

Does anybody know.....are we still active in our pursuit of Alvin Tumblin, Jr.??????
Is there any word on a big or two????  Somebody has to fetch a rebound or two.....and defend
the other guys bigs......??????


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## Sycamores81

I’m not getting involved in the “Is Larry a D1 PG” discussion but I think he needs a little more credit. True Freshman started all year for a contender in a very top heavy Valley. He played his role well, not much scoring, just have to play D, hustle, and facilitate. He did his 3 main roles well and if you got scoring it was a plus. My dad (huge Illinois fightin Illini fan) and I went to the arch madness games and he told me Julian is a Valley version of Andre Curbelo. He is only gonna grow as a player and scorer and he has the dirty work areas down, give him time. First post, sorry for rambling on. GO TREES!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Sycamores81 said:


> I’m not getting involved in the “Is Larry a D1 PG” discussion but I think he needs a little more credit. True Freshman started all year for a contender in a very top heavy Valley. He played his role well, not much scoring, just have to play D, hustle, and facilitate. He did his 3 main roles well and if you got scoring it was a plus. My dad (huge Illinois fightin Illini fan) and I went to the arch madness games and he told me Julian is a Valley version of Andre Curbelo. He is only gonna grow as a player and scorer and he has the dirty work areas down, give him time. First post, sorry for rambling on. GO TREES!



You may not have wanted to be involved - but when you post you involve yourself in the conversation... I know you're a first time poster, welcome and thanks for your input - but this is how it works, you're now part of the conversation!!

Larry really doesn't pass the ball all that well - the one piece of credit that I will give him is that he's not a turnover machine. He really doesn't kick it around too much - but for the guy that is running the point with the ball in his hands more than anyone he was not that great of a facilitator last year. 20 minutes per game and 1.6 assists per game isn't great for a PG.

Here was his line the last 6 games of the season... 7-27 (26%) FG, 2-13 (15%) 3PT, 5-10 (50%) FT, 7 assists, 3 steals, 2 turnovers.... Pedestrian to say the least. Those are his numbers after nearly an entire season of getting the vote of confidence from his coach and having 19 games or so worth of experience.

You're literally asking me to give guy a credit for hustling and playing hard D? Shouldn't that be the standard for any player at any level of sports?? Like you went out and dug in and played hard D congrats. He's undersized the way it is - so he better work his ass off and win on that side of the floor.

This forum (and probably most for that matter) has a history of supporting players and giving them the benefit of the doubt even when they maybe don't deserve it. During the season Larry had decent +/- numbers but it didn't tell the whole story... It doesn't meet the eye test for me. The last 6 games of the season were exactly what we saw from Larry all season from a numbers perspective. You can't just say - well he's not a scorer but he does other things well!! The way the game is played today you can't be a non threat to score the basketball at this level - it makes you way too easy to defend and makes the guys around you job more difficult to score the basketball. It's literally 5 on 4. So unless he develops a shot I am not sure what we're even talking about... His inability to shoot is what disqualifies him from being a D1 player for me. If you are going to have a small'ish frame like him you better be able to keep defenses honest and make some shots.


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## sycamorebacker

And he was a FR.
Odum and Scott didn't get on the floor when they were FR.
I'll admit that he didn't have as many assists as Moore, Menser, Barnes or Green.  But I don't think any of them were marginal D1 players.  That's setting the bar for Larry pretty high.  But his A/TO ratio was higher than all of them; and, for whatever reason, our team this year did not generate many assists.
I think LaRavia took some assists away from our PG position.
As far as shooting, Moore is the only FR I've mentioned that shot more than 36%.  I don't think it's logical to criticize a freshman's FG%.  And the current college game is for 3 pt shooting and doesn't even include short jump shots for guards.  Of course they can shoot layups against shot blockers inside.  A lot of guards' misses are blocked shots.
Our BEST FR guards from Green forward have averaged 7.25 ppg and you want to ditch him for scoring 4?
So think whatever you want.  I think he will be a fine PG for us and I'M GLAD WE GOT HIM.

I looked it up.  Our assists were distributed on the team.  LaRavia led the team and several players spread out the rest.  If our team had an "assist" problem, it was not totally Larry's fault.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Because they redshirted? They were still freshman. That’s BS (Not Brenton Scott BS either) to just dismiss them as Fresh because they had the opportunity to RS.

You set that bar with those players - I didn’t set that bar or bring those players up. So don’t start creating a bar and act like I have ever mentioned his name compared to any of those players. You’re like... “I’ll admit...” to something you brought up in the first place! Okay - that’s great but are you having a conversation with me your yourself because I can’t tell??

I’m not that big into comparing players to other players - you all are doing a great job of that in this thread without my help! All these guys are unique the game has changed a great deal since any of those guys you mentioned touched a basketball for us. I like to compare athletic ability - but stats within the game? Not for me.

Also, you can have a debate with me if you want but don’t start creating some sort of a narrative and try to back me into a corner with it. I didn’t say our team assist numbers were low because of Larry - you literally brought that up and then said it was not totally Larry’s fault. Okay again conversation with me or yourself? Because we agree on that... It wasn’t his fault. But it doesn’t help when defenses are able to sag - it makes passing to a guy that’s ready to shoot (aka an assist) that much more difficult. The “help defense” is literally created by your inability to make a shot and keep the defense honest.

In closing I will say this, if you want to cherry pick stats like his ATO then I will cherry pick his FG/3FG/FT % just as I will cherry pick a certain string of games to illustrate my point. His shooting absolutely matters - he’s playing college basketball. Don’t tell me it’s not logical to discuss a college basketball players shooting percentage... The kid has been playing basketball his entire life - he want’s us to discuss his shoot percentages or I would hope he does! But once again - Never once did I mention his PPG - you did that multiple times throughout your post.


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## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Because they redshirted? They were still freshman. That’s BS (Not Brenton Scott BS either) to just dismiss them as Fresh because they had the opportunity to RS.
> 
> You set that bar with those players - I didn’t set that bar or bring those players up. So don’t start creating a bar and act like I have ever mentioned his name compared to any of those players. You’re like... “I’ll admit...” to something you brought up in the first place! Okay - that’s great but are you having a conversation with me your yourself because I can’t tell??
> 
> I’m not that big into comparing players to other players - you all are doing a great job of that in this thread without my help! All these guys are unique the game has changed a great deal since any of those guys you mentioned touched a basketball for us. I like to compare athletic ability - but stats within the game? Not for me.
> 
> Also, you can have a debate with me if you want but don’t start creating some sort of a narrative and try to back me into a corner with it. I didn’t say our team assist numbers were low because of Larry - you literally brought that up and then said it was not totally Larry’s fault. Okay again conversation with me or yourself? Because we agree on that... It wasn’t his fault. But it doesn’t help when defenses are able to sag - it makes passing to a guy that’s ready to shoot (aka an assist) that much more difficult. The “help defense” is literally created by your inability to make a shot and keep the defense honest.
> 
> In closing I will say this, if you want to cherry pick stats like his ATO then I will cherry pick his FG/3FG/FT % just as I will cherry pick a certain string of games to illustrate my point. His shooting absolutely matters - he’s playing college basketball. Don’t tell me it’s not logical to discuss a college basketball players shooting percentage... The kid has been playing basketball his entire life - he want’s us to discuss his shoot percentages or I would hope he does! But once again - Never once did I mention his PPG - you did that multiple times throughout your post.


Wow, you're serious about this aren't you?  I don't know why you have a problem with reality.  By the way - I didn't cherrypick.  I looked at all of Larry's stats and he did fine as a Fr when compared with some of our "better" players.  Just setting the bar.  That's something you should do.  You need to understand something.  There is a difference between a player's first year and 2nd year. Redshirt or not.  It's called experience.
I apologize, one more post.
At IU, Galloway, who is a future star at IU   shot  .42/.18 
         Lander, in '20 was the #1 JR PG in the country  shot .26/.27
         Leal, '20 Mr. Basketball shot .31/.30

I'm done here.  This is stupid arguing against something that was obviously true to the general public.


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## Jason Svoboda

With Key's return we've got two spots remaining. Roster is almost full up.


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## pbutler218

Coach Schertz told Golden they "could" sign up to four more players due to COVID rules but they will most likely only sign two or three.


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## dino

pbutler218 said:


> Coach Schertz told Golden they "could" sign up to four more players due to COVID rules but they will most likely only sign two or three.


From what I understand the players staying with their program for the bonus year don’t count against the scholarship limit. Key and Miller wouldn’t count if they wanted to go above the limit.


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## sycamorebacker

I think it's likely that Crawford redshirts.  Not sure how many minutes Wilbar and Hittle get.  Seems to me with Key and Neese returning, Henry would take minutes away from Miller.  Minutes on the wing are going to be very competitive.


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## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> Coach Schertz told Golden they "could" sign up to four more players due to COVID rules but they will most likely only sign two or three.



It always comes down to money. I'd be shocked if we go over two but if they can find a guy that is worth it, I hope they can sell it.


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## Jason Svoboda

Leaves ONE spot unless the schools them overrecruit for the Key and Miller gratis years.

Has to be a BIG for that last spot, no? If not, I envision a hockey line setup with all of the wings and some small ball.


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## sycamorebacker

Look at the shooters on the roster.  I'm excited!


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## pbutler218

My crystal ball says look for a "big" commitment soon. We'll see!!


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## pbutler218

Guys not sure whats going on but I no longer see Randy Miller Jr. listed on the gosycamores roster. Maybe another spot coming open?


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## TreeTop

pbutler218 said:


> Guys not sure whats going on but I no longer see Randy Miller Jr. listed on the gosycamores roster. Maybe another spot coming open?


Interesting. Thanks for catching that.


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## child

That could be a good thing, Miller was a fair player but limited in his shooting. Might be better for the coach to get a new guy that he wants.


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## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> Guys not sure whats going on but I no longer see Randy Miller Jr. listed on the gosycamores roster. Maybe another spot coming open?



Yeah, he was announced and had been on the roster so that is interesting. Maybe something to ask our beat writer about. Got to keep him up to speed.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

It's time we start paying attention to Sam Mervis. He's survived all of these roster/coaching casualties - he's literally capable of anything. He has no ceiling.


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## pbutler218

Also, odd it doesn't show Matt Cline on staff either. Maybe needs an update?


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## Bingoman

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> It's time we start paying attention to Sam Mervis. He's survived all of these roster/coaching casualties - he's literally capable of anything. He has no ceiling.


Coaches don't normally cut walk ons when they switch coaches. There is usually no point, so I don't understand the first point you made. But I think he has potential to become something which I agree with you, but we'll have to see.


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## Bluethunder

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> It's time we start paying attention to Sam Mervis. He's survived all of these roster/coaching casualties - he's literally capable of anything. He has no ceiling.


All he needs is a chance. Cmon JS, give the kid a chance.


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## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> Also, odd it doesn't show Matt Cline on staff either. Maybe needs an update?



He is a special assistant and for whatever reason we never show those on the roster. 

By comparison, here is how Kentucky does it:






						2021-22 Men's Basketball Roster - University of Kentucky Athletics
					

The official 2021-22 Men's Basketball Roster for the University of Kentucky Wildcats




					ukathletics.com


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## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> He is a special assistant and for whatever reason we never show those on the roster.
> 
> By comparison, here is how Kentucky does it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2021-22 Men's Basketball Roster - University of Kentucky Athletics
> 
> 
> The official 2021-22 Men's Basketball Roster for the University of Kentucky Wildcats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ukathletics.com


I do like Kentucky's format. GoSycamores has James Schmeits as a special assistant . I thought he was there under Lansing?


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## 4Q_iu

Bingoman said:


> Coaches don't normally cut walk ons when they switch coaches. There is usually no point, so I don't understand the first point you made. But I think he has potential to become something which I agree with you, but we'll have to see.



Meh.... all depends on the coach; some love walk-ons, the love of game, enthusiasm they bring, etc; however, a lot (quietly) hate them


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## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> He is a special assistant and for whatever reason we never show those on the roster.
> 
> By comparison, here is how Kentucky does it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2021-22 Men's Basketball Roster - University of Kentucky Athletics
> 
> 
> The official 2021-22 Men's Basketball Roster for the University of Kentucky Wildcats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ukathletics.com



They omitted Head Bag Man for Lexington Payola Office


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## Jason Svoboda

If Miller is gone, I've got to think they want a PG with the now open spot.


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## pbutler218

I think we'll have an experienced point guard to help tutor Larry and Peterson soon.


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## TreeTop

I didn’t want to start a whole new thread for this, so...

Anyone else notice that the Indiana State Men’s Basketball Twitter account is suspended?



			https://twitter.com/indstmbb?s=21


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## pbutler218

TreeTop said:


> I didn’t want to start a whole new thread for this, so...
> 
> Anyone else notice that the Indiana State Men’s Basketball Twitter account is suspended?
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/indstmbb?s=21


I did notice that. Would like to know what's going on there.


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## Gotta Hav

TreeTop said:


> I didn’t want to start a whole new thread for this, so...
> 
> Anyone else notice that the Indiana State Men’s Basketball Twitter account is suspended?
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/indstmbb?s=21


That's what ya get for using the noun MEN in your account profile.   Sounds pretty hostile to me.  Probably should go with something less male, less patriarchal, and less mysogynistic.   Maybe use Indiana State's XY Basketball Team, or Indiana State's Cisgendered Basketball Team, or even Indiana State's Non-Binary Basketball Team to make it appear neutral so that's no appearance of Toxic Masculinity.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Tavian Dunn-Martin seems like the guy we're really going after.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

One spot remains if they don't account for Key's waived year.


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## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> One spot remains if they don't account for Key's waived year.


Jason,  where is Dearon Tucker?


----------



## Chief_Quabachi

Gotta Hav said:


> That's what ya get for using the noun MEN in your account profile.   Sounds pretty hostile to me.  Probably should go with something less male, less patriarchal, and less mysogynistic.   Maybe use Indiana State's XY Basketball Team, or Indiana State's Cisgendered Basketball Team, or even Indiana State's Non-Binary Basketball Team to make it appear neutral so that's no appearance of Toxic Masculinity.


🤣


----------



## pbutler218

pbutler218 said:


> Jason,  where is Dearon Tucker?


I believe he has 3 years of eligibility. Should be listed with sophomore class?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> I believe he has 3 years of eligibility. Should be listed with sophomore class?


He's played 2 years so he is a junior. We need to operate as if waivers aren't in place because coaches will not be able to give all of these kids 5-6 years and maintain program continuity.


----------



## HOOPSFAN

Has Peterson arrived yet?


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> He's played 2 years so he is a junior. We need to operate as if waivers aren't in place because coaches will not be able to give all of these kids 5-6 years and maintain program continuity.


I agree, but then Henry should be a SR and Thomas should be a SO, right?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> I agree, but then Henry should be a SR and Thomas should be a SO, right?


Yeah, I'll adjust.


----------



## sycamorebacker

One more.  I think Wilbar s/b a SO.


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## sycamorebacker

And Bledson has already played 2 years.


----------



## SycfromBirth

Luke Brown looks a little intriguing if we are still looking for a PG.  Not saying that there may not be other solid players available.


----------

