# '12 IL C Michael Samuels (Transferred to Eastern Michigan)



## Jason Svoboda

*Center*
Mount Carmel (IL) Wabash Valley C.C.

*Ht: *6-foot-11
*Wt:* 250 lbs


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## Jason Svoboda

Posted on Twitter that he committed to Indiana State.

http://twitter.com/#!/ByAnyMeanz_50


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## bent20

A replacement for Walker?


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## bigsportsfan

bent20 said:


> A replacement for Walker?



Maybe he can hit more than 3 for 10 from point blank range.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

bigsportsfan said:


> Maybe he can hit more than 3 for 10 from point blank range.



Nice how soon you forget how well Walker played last year in St. Louis to take us back to the NCAA tourney. I realize that expectations have risen (as they should) but lets be real - you have no idea what you're talking about. If you can't see (by now) that Myles Walker brings a hell of a lot more to this team than 3 of 10 shooting.


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## SycamoreFan317

bigsportsfan said:


> Maybe he can hit more than 3 for 10 from point blank range.



What no mention of his 14 rebounds and no mention of his improved FT shooting. Anybody can find the negatives try being positive and build people up the negative BS around here is really getting to be stupid.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreFan317 said:


> What no mention of his 14 rebounds and no mention of his improved FT shooting. Anybody can find the negatives try being positive and build people up the negative BS around here is really getting to be stupid.



Also worth noting that 7 of those rebounds were offensive - very nice effort on the boards tonight! Not to high jack this thread totally - but when officials let Walker bang inside then he can rebound like this, usually he is not allowed to beat and bang like this.


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## region rat

bigsportsfan said:


> Maybe he can hit more than 3 for 10 from point blank range.



Can you?


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## ISU_TREE_FAN

Was he at the game last night?


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## SycamoreBlue3209

Yeah, he was sitting down in the end zone by our bench last night.


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## pbutler218

So..... is this guy any good? Where's the official word on him,stats,history,etc?


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## SycamoreFan317

pbutler218 said:


> So..... is this guy any good? Where's the official word on him,stats,history,etc?



We need to trust the coaches, they obviously see something in him.

http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_colle...=Roster&slid=2&teamid=122720&athleteid=348257


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## bluestreak

here is some [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj773M-6Nm8"]video [/ame]when he played at VU - #33


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## Bluesier

bluestreak said:


> here is some video when he played at VU - #33



Pretty sure that is not him.


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## region rat

Not as fast or as strong as Walker (does not appear to be better than Walker) but taller and maybe more jumping ability.????


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## True Blue

That does not look like him to me.


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## landrus13

That video is not of Samuels. That #33 is DeShawn Delaney, he plays at VU this year and is a freshman. That video is from our Olney Central game earlier this year, so yeah that is not Michael Samuels.


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## Bluesier

For Olney, #5 is Thomas Anderson and #22 is John Michael Jarvis.


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## BrokerZ

SycamoreFan317 said:


> We need to trust the coaches, they obviously see something in him.
> 
> http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_colle...=Roster&slid=2&teamid=122720&athleteid=348257



I trust our coaches and their eye for talent, but I'm assuming the "something" they see right now is someone who's 6-foot-11 and 250 lbs.  You can't teach that.  Someone that size surely can develop a nice hook shot and is good for a few put-backs.  We'll be lacking that kind of size next year, so I like the pick-up even if he's not a prolific post scorer or monster rebounder.


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## bluestreak

Sorry guys...shoulda checked closer.


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## bigsportsfan

jlandrus23 said:


> That video is not of Samuels. That #33 is DeShawn Delaney, he plays at VU this year and is a freshman. That video is from our Olney Central game earlier this year, so yeah that is not Michael Samuels.



Let's get him.  He's a beast.


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## skdent1414

*Curse of Big Men*

Before we get all worked up about the new big man, I did a little research. Not to burst anyone's bubble but these are the stat lines for our last 6 players listed 6-10 or above. Needless to say, ISU is cursed when it comes to big men. Hopefully this one will pan out. I did not include Jake Kitchell because he is only a freshman. 

6-11 Josh Crawford(08’-10’)	 3.9 ppg    2.8 rpg
6-10 Brant Leitnaker (06’-10) 	2.8 ppg     1.7 rpg
6-10 Mick Yelovich (04’-08’)	3.0 ppg     1.6 rpg	
6-10 Ted Morris (02’-04’)	3.7 ppg     2.2 rpg
6-10 Michael Kernan (01’-03’)	3.2 ppg     1.0 rpg
6-11 Josh Hallatt (93’-95’)	2.8 ppg      2.0 rpg

These stats are of their best year. Sorry if I missed a player.


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## ISU_TREE_FAN

skdent1414 said:


> Before we get all worked up about the new big man, I did a little research. Not to burst anyone's bubble but these are the stat lines for our last 6 players listed 6-10 or above. Needless to say, ISU is cursed when it comes to big men. Hopefully this one will pan out. I did not include Jake Kitchell because he is only a freshman.
> 
> 6-11 Josh Crawford(08’-10’)	 3.9 ppg    2.8 rpg
> 6-10 Brant Leitnaker (06’-10) 	2.8 ppg     1.7 rpg
> 6-10 Mick Yelovich (04’-08’)	3.0 ppg     1.6 rpg
> 6-10 Ted Morris (02’-04’)	3.7 ppg     2.2 rpg
> 6-10 Michael Kernan (01’-03’)	3.2 ppg     1.0 rpg
> 6-11 Josh Hallatt (93’-95’)	2.8 ppg      2.0 rpg
> 
> These stats are of their best year. Sorry if I missed a player.



Knew we had not done too well but didn't realize it was this bad?  Wow, what a waste. Have always said a good 6'8 player will serve well in the Valley. That Carl Hall guy for Wichita is a 6'8 JC transfer and in several other games this year been a rebounding machine. Give me a 6'8 frontline anytime.


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## bent20

skdent1414 said:


> Before we get all worked up about the new big man, I did a little research. Not to burst anyone's bubble but these are the stat lines for our last 6 players listed 6-10 or above. Needless to say, ISU is cursed when it comes to big men. Hopefully this one will pan out. I did not include Jake Kitchell because he is only a freshman.
> 
> 6-11 Josh Crawford(08’-10’)	 3.9 ppg    2.8 rpg
> 6-10 Brant Leitnaker (06’-10) 	2.8 ppg     1.7 rpg
> 6-10 Mick Yelovich (04’-08’)	3.0 ppg     1.6 rpg
> 6-10 Ted Morris (02’-04’)	3.7 ppg     2.2 rpg
> 6-10 Michael Kernan (01’-03’)	3.2 ppg     1.0 rpg
> 6-11 Josh Hallatt (93’-95’)	2.8 ppg      2.0 rpg
> 
> These stats are of their best year. Sorry if I missed a player.



Did you leave Jay Tunnell out because isn't 6'10" plus? Walker is arguably the best big man we've had in quite a while. People down on him would be wise to look at this list. There is no question though that size (and I'm not just talking height) helps. We need some big bodies (some muscle) to fight for boards and make the other team's big men work. Kitchell and Gant, and Mahurin for that matter, for as great as they can be they are more like a Tunnell. They're not going to bang around much inside, not as consistently anyway.


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## Eleven

skdent1414 said:


> Before we get all worked up about the new big man, I did a little research. Not to burst anyone's bubble but these are the stat lines for our last 6 players listed 6-10 or above. Needless to say, ISU is cursed when it comes to big men. Hopefully this one will pan out. I did not include Jake Kitchell because he is only a freshman.
> 
> 6-11 Josh Crawford(08’-10’)	 3.9 ppg    2.8 rpg
> 6-10 Brant Leitnaker (06’-10) 	2.8 ppg     1.7 rpg
> 6-10 Mick Yelovich (04’-08’)	3.0 ppg     1.6 rpg
> 6-10 Ted Morris (02’-04’)	3.7 ppg     2.2 rpg
> 6-10 Michael Kernan (01’-03’)	3.2 ppg     1.0 rpg
> 6-11 Josh Hallatt (93’-95’)	2.8 ppg      2.0 rpg
> 
> These stats are of their best year. Sorry if I missed a player.



Kante?  (6-8)  Avery? (6-9) Tunnel? (6-8)
Of the guys listed there, the only ones I would say were over 240 are.. Mick and Ted...


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## hans1950

I did find stats for this season.15 games,6ppg,4+rebounds,1 block.I realize JC ball is sometimes run and gun but this doesn't sound like a dominant player at least at this point.I'm sur the coaches see potential.we'll see.


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## SycamoreFan317

hans1950 said:


> I did find stats for this season.15 games,6ppg,4+rebounds,1 block.I realize JC ball is sometimes run and gun but this doesn't sound like a dominant player at least at this point.I'm sur the coaches see potential.we'll see.



Posted this back on page 2, sorry you missed it.

http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_colle...=Roster&slid=2&teamid=122720&athleteid=348257


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## nwi stater

How about, for you members of the OFC, De Carsta Webster, and everyones favorite tax driver, and sticky fingers, Richard Johnson from the 70's


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## Indians1

"Big Mike" Samuels plays for Dan Sparks, the Uncle of Chelsea Buher.  She spoke with him about Indiana State.  He has made huge strides this year after leaving Vincennes University.  He still has work to do, but is eager to get better.  He is huge!  Runs the floor well and has pretty good hands.  Coach Sparks and Coach Eric Murphy feel he will do better in D1 next year because he will be playing against more kids his size and quickness..


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## Gotta Hav

nwi stater said:


> How about, for you members of the OFC, De Carsta Webster, and everyones favorite tax driver, and sticky fingers, Richard Johnson from the 70's



Well, DeCarsta did become the All Time shot blocker for Indiana State, while Richard Johnson was by silent ballot, selected to the Nimrod First Team All Stars.

If there was ever a knucklehead that played athletics at ISU, the poster child is Richard Johnson

Besides being African American, wasn't he 7' and 260 pounds, and not very attractive looking?

As if after robbing a Drug store in Terre Haute, IN you're going to disappear with all of that going for you, or in Johnsons case, against you.


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## IndyTreeFan

Indians1 said:


> "Big Mike" Samuels plays for Dan Sparks, the Uncle of Chelsea Buher.  She spoke with him about Indiana State.  He has made huge strides this year after leaving Vincennes University.  He still has work to do, but is eager to get better.  He is huge!  Runs the floor well and has pretty good hands.  Coach Sparks and Coach Eric Murphy feel he will do better in D1 next year because he will be playing against more kids his size and quickness..



Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!  I was beginning to think that this guy was locked up in Fort Knox, with all the gold (that doesn't exist!) - he's the best kept secret in basketball!  It's great to hear some info on him.  Bodies like his don't come around that often, and I'm glad we've got him coming to ISU!!!

Any more specifics that you can provide would be great.  What are his strengths/weaknesses, and what is his upside?  Is he gonna be able to help plug up the middle like Myles?  Sorry to badger with questions, but no one seemed to know anything about this kid.  Thanks again for the info!!!


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## hans1950

His facebook page says he's from Brooklyn,NY.Went to high school out in the hills of Pennsylvania.


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## TreeTop

Posting this only cuz it shows a few other schools that were on his radar...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/temple/basketball/recruiting/player-Mike-Samuels-129429

Illinois State
Temple
Georgia State


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## nwi stater

Gotta Hav said:


> Well, DeCarsta did become the All Time shot blocker for Indiana State, while Richard Johnson was by silent ballot, selected to the Nimrod First Team All Stars.
> 
> If there was ever a knucklehead that played athletics at ISU, the poster child is Richard Johnson
> 
> Besides being African American, wasn't he 7' and 260 pounds, and not very attractive looking?
> 
> As if after robbing a Drug store in Terre Haute, IN you're going to disappear with all of that going for you, or in Johnsons case, against you.



What I remember, back in the day, that  johnson was a giant, much more than 260 and was caught robbing a dorm room of all things a sword??? He wasn't too hard to describe by the one who saw him take it.


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## BankShot

Since we're hashing OFC late 70's rumors...I heard that Johnson was charged w/ armed robbery of the old K-Mart out on east Wabash Ave (enroute to Memorial Stadium). Given the mentality of the crime, it sounds most accurate.


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## IndyTreeFan

Not to drag this thread even further away from Big Mike Samuels, my family was on vacation in Michigan in the early-mid 80's, and we were reading the Detroit Free Press sports section.  They had a listing of players invited to a tryout for the Pistons and, lo and behold, who was on the list but our very own Richard Johnson.  Got a good laugh...


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## ISU_TREE_FAN

nwi stater said:


> How about, for you members of the OFC, De Carsta Webster, and everyones favorite tax driver, and sticky fingers, Richard Johnson from the 70's



Ask Purdue's Joe Barry Carroll what he thought of Richard Johnson?........................he was intimidated, absolutely intimidated in the game in Terre Haute. I remember Johnson squaring up defensively on Johnson and giving him a look like "I'm gonna kill you" and old JB Carroll shrank like a violet and was never in that game.


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## Indians1

IndyTreeFan said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!  I was beginning to think that this guy was locked up in Fort Knox, with all the gold (that doesn't exist!) - he's the best kept secret in basketball!  It's great to hear some info on him.  Bodies like his don't come around that often, and I'm glad we've got him coming to ISU!!!
> 
> Any more specifics that you can provide would be great.  What are his strengths/weaknesses, and what is his upside?  Is he gonna be able to help plug up the middle like Myles?  Sorry to badger with questions, but no one seemed to know anything about this kid.  Thanks again for the info!!!



Mike has decent footwork and an attitude, lol.  Not always a bad attitude, he just wants to do well all the time and wants to win.  Like I said, he has made HUGE strides since the beginning of the year and if Coach Sparks would have had him last year, wow , look out.  He is probably the most improved on a loaded team for Wabash Valley.  They currently have Baylor, Kentucky and several other top 10 schools looking at different players on this team.  Cincinnati was hot after Mike and were mad that he verballed and didn't take a visit to see the Bearcats.

He is still green in some areas, but Coach Lansing will work on improving those aspects.  Is he a superstar, no, but he will contribute and does have a wide body.  I will get some pics this weekend and let you know how he does as well.


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## Indians1

Good things would include a nice jump hook and he does decent at rebounding.  I have yet to see him play defense on someone his size, but if they make the NJCAA National T'ment, he will get a taste of that.  He does get out and sprint down the floor, which for someone his size you don''t always see.

Downside is he has a sideway spin on his shot, which Coach has worked tirelessly to get him to change.  He just needs to hit the gym and work on it as at times his shot spins out of the rim.  Probably why he has developed the jump hook as it doesn't involve his guide hand, which is causing the sideways rotation.

Is he ready for the MVC, not as of January 2012, but if he continues to work, yes he can help the Sycamores.


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## SycfromBirth

How many years of eligibility will Mike have?   Boda has him listed as a Freshman next year,  can that be right,  considering that he is coming out of a CC?


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## Jason Svoboda

SycfromBirth said:


> How many years of eligibility will Mike have?   Boda has him listed as a Freshman next year,  can that be right,  considering that he is coming out of a CC?



No, that was my error. He should have 2 I believe.


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## Indians1

He will have 2 years at ISU, but he needs to get with it on the court.  Ever since he verballed he has done NOTHING!  Is not even starting now.


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## IndyTreeFan

Indians1 said:


> He will have 2 years at ISU, but he needs to get with it on the court.  Ever since he verballed he has done NOTHING!  Is not even starting now.



Oh boy...:eek7:


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## sycamorebacker

Well, we don't have to sign him.  Sounds like we should move on.


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## pbutler218

Oh great..... another big man stiff!!! I recommend pulling his offer NOW!! If he can't start @ a Juco as big as he is  then it doesn't sound like he's a D-1 player.


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## TreeTop

Yeah, all of you guys have more insight into this player than Greg Lansing.


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## IndyTreeFan

Actually, Indians1 just might, since he's related to the kid's coach...

And it doesn't bother you at all that a guy we're giving a scholarship isn't even a starter on his JC team anymore?  I don't think you have to be a basketball coach to be perturbed by that.  If Greg feels like he's still our guy, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but to have the discussion only makes sense.

Mike, come on dude, don't throw your chance away!!!  We need you!


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## TreeTop

IndyTreeFan said:


> Actually, Indians1 just might, since he's related to the kid's coach...



Fair enough.


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## TreeTop

IndyTreeFan said:


> Mike, come on dude, don't throw your chance away!!!  We need you!



And I think this is much more constructive than "Don't sign him".

I agree, step it up Mike, Champions are made in the off-season....or in your case, pre-D1.  You can do it!


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## Indians1

Quabachi said:


> And I think this is much more constructive than "Don't sign him".
> 
> I agree, step it up Mike, Champions are made in the off-season....or in your case, pre-D1.  You can do it!



I agree.  He can still be a great player for ISU, and this happens sometimes with kids who know where they are going before their season finishes.  But it is so frustrating to see him do this.  So much talent and size, he should be ruling the GRAC Conference.  Coach Sparks has some serious talent on this team with the kids getting looks from all over the MVC to Kentuckty, Baylor, Oregon, etc.....  so it is easy for him to get bumped on playing time when the effort is not there.  I like Mike, a lot, nice young man.  He just needs to finish his committment to Wabash Valley and help lead them to the NJCAA Finals in a month.....as he wouldn't be going to ISU without Coach Sparks improving him so much this season.

Will keep you all updated!


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## pbutler218

Agreed......let's give the guy a chance.  Maybe our luck with a true big man will improve!


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## BankShot

Funny thing about MOTIVATION in some people...we've seen the same thing happen over the years to a few HS starz that commit early, then stumble upon the manana concept and treat their final yr. as a siesta celebration.. Some pull out of it, some don't.

If ISU had a renowned "post man" coach _in touc_h with Samuels NOW, I'd guarantee he'd be picking his act up @ WVJC...or else.


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## Sycamore Proud

BankShot said:


> Funny thing about MOTIVATION in some people...we've seen the same thing happen over the years to a few HS starz that commit early, then stumble upon the manana concept and treat their final yr. as a siesta celebration.. Some pull out of it, some don't.
> 
> *If ISU had a renowned "post man" coach in touch with Samuels NOW, I'd guarantee he'd be picking his act up @ WVJC...or else*.



Right you are.


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## Jason Svoboda

http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_colle...=Roster&slid=2&teamid=122720&athleteid=348257

Averaging 4.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg, 0.1 spg and 0.7 bpg. Shooting 56% (20-36) from the line and 45% from the floor, 22 of 41. Anyone got anything new on him... doesn't look he has played well in over a month.


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## IndyTreeFan

Eeek!  :eek7:


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## bigsportsfan

Jason Svoboda said:


> http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_colle...=Roster&slid=2&teamid=122720&athleteid=348257
> 
> Averaging 4.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg, 0.1 spg and 0.7 bpg. Shooting 56% (20-36) from the line and 45% from the floor, 22 of 41. Anyone got anything new on him... doesn't look he has played well in over a month.



What the hell do we want this guy for?


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## Kneepad

Wichita State gets a juco like Hall, who is a difference maker.  We get a guy who averages less than 5 and 5 even though he's twice the size of everyone else.  Do we really need another project?

The coaches must see something, but the stats sure aren't bearing it out...


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## Lights Out

The only reason that ISU is on to this kid is because Coach Ragland recruited him to Vincennes University two years ago.  When Coach Ragland left VU and came to ISU, Samuels transferred to Wabash Valley.  From the stuff I have heard this is a kid with tremendous upside, but he has had some questions brought about his work ethic.  I am not bashing the kid, but I have heard from many sources that this is the main reason he left VU.  He is definitely a project, and hopefully he works out!


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## Southgrad07

Lights Out said:


> The only reason that ISU is on to this kid is because Coach Ragland recruited him to Vincennes University two years ago.  When Coach Ragland left VU and came to ISU, Samuels transferred to Wabash Valley.  From the stuff I have heard this is a kid with tremendous upside, but he has had some questions brought about his work ethic.  I am not bashing the kid, but I have heard from many sources that this is the main reason he left VU.  He is definitely a project, and hopefully he works out!



Im not a big fan of projects, especially when we only get him for 2 years. Gotta trust that coach Lansing and Ragland can get him to realize his potential though.


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## SycfromBirth

Is it possible that he could walk on?  I don't mind having a player with good upside, but, based on what others are saying about his current performance, I have a hard time thinking that he would compete for 5 minutes a game by his senior year.  

Are we outside the signing period, or, is it possible that he is sitting on "verbal" status as the coaching staff waits for a decision on a higher priority recruit?


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## Jason Svoboda

Had a bucket in a win on the 18th.

http://tristate-media.com/drr/sports/local_sports/article_f2c021a2-5bdb-11e1-9a90-0019bb2963f4.html


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## ISU_TREE_FAN

Need to have some faith in what the coaches see but man this is a loooooooooooooooooooongshot.


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## BankShot

Ya, our coaches have sure set a benchmark for developing big men, haven't they?


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## Jason Svoboda

Team won 93-84 on Wednesday but he wasn't listed as having scored. 

http://www.tristate-media.com/drr/s...cle_283d8f8a-5e3a-11e1-8295-001871e3ce6c.html


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## bent20

Wiggins seems to  be a scorer. He dominates most of their game stories.


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## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> Wiggins seems to  be a scorer. He dominates most of their game stories.



Yeah, we were after him at one point I believe, too. He was listed as having an offer on Rivals and visited when he was at VU.

http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?t=7967


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## Southgrad07

like someone said any chance he is just a walk on? I know he is big but im sorry stat lines of 2 points and 0 points arent very encouraging. I know its not all about how many points you score but I dont think he is really racking up a ton of boards or blocks either


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## pbutler218

What the heck is he.....a big stiff! Can't our recruiters do any better?!!


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## Callmedoc

any chance either A. He's a Walk on or B. his playing time has been affected by his commitment?


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## Jason Svoboda

Team won Saturday 76-66 but he wasn't mentioned in the article. 

http://tristate-media.com/drr/sports/local_sports/article_a1d7efd8-6160-11e1-bbf0-001871e3ce6c.html

Looking at the NJCAA page and he had goose eggs on his stat line so he may not have even played?

http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_colle...=Roster&slid=2&teamid=122720&athleteid=348257


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## IndyTreeFan

Oh Lord.  This could be bad...


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## pbutler218

What could the coaches have possibly seen in this guy considering he doesn't even play much........................... other than he's a big guy? I just DON'T get it!!!!!


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## Jason Svoboda

Team won by a bucket last night, 67-65. Not listed in the story at all. I'm going to assume he didn't play again.

http://tristate-media.com/drr/sports/local_sports/article_9b91eeec-63ba-11e1-8473-0019bb2963f4.html


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## Kneepad

If this kid still sucks down a scholarship at ISU, the staff should be ashamed of themselves.  I can't believe that this is the best we could do.  A juco who can't even see the court AT HIS JUCO?  And it's not like we have anyone who can coach him up.


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## sycamorebacker

Kneepad said:


> And it's not like we have anyone who can coach him up.



Nonsense. Phooey.  It isn't rocket science and they have done a fine job with Myles, RJ and Kitchell.


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## BankShot

Ya, Kitch & RJ really found their niche this past season...and Gant reflected every bit of his IN All-star billing. 
This is the most outlandish thought you've ever honed here on the Forum. How many ISU "big men" gathered post-season MVC honors?


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## Kneepad

Yeah, our bigs have really torn it up this year...:krazy:

It's not from lack of talent, either.  Our bigs are not as good this year as they were last year.  We don't have a real big man coach...


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## sycamorebacker

You need to figure it out for yourselves.

You don't think Walker or RJ or Kitchell are better than they were in Nov of 2010?  You are nuts.


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## Bluethunder

Nobody on the team improved more last year during he season than Walker, and I don't think anyone on the team improved more in the off season than RJ.


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## sycamorebacker

We didn't see Kitchell last year but I'd bet the ranch he has improved a lot.  And Gant will keep getting better and will be a 12 and 6 guy for us.  



I think DL should be complemented on how he completely changed the way he plays the game.  You don't often see someone improve their decision-making that much in one year.  
I like the way he is driving to his left into the lane and passing off.  Last year, it was always an adventure when he put the ball on the floor.


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## mohoops247

sycamorebacker said:


> I think DL should be complemented on how he completely changed the way he plays the game.  You don't often see someone improve their decision-making that much in one year.
> I like the way he is driving to his left into the lane and passing off.  Last year, it was always an adventure when he put the ball on the floor.



Agreed.  He played very well last night and made some very smart plays down the stretch.  He shot when it was there and made the extra pass when it was there.  He definitely has grown as an all-around player.


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## Daveinth

The problem I have is there is no time for a JUCO big man project we need guys ready to hit the floor out of the gate . Not JUCO Projects.  we have a hard time developing them in 5 years .


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## sycamorebacker

right, and this guy sounds like he has no work ethic.  can't use anyone unless they play 100%.
I'm concerned about Bell in that regard.

I wonder if we have a chance to get the guy from Richmond.  He sounds like a good prospect.


----------



## sycamorenation23

*I Have Seen Michael!*

ive seen him play he's great around the block but due to off the court (practice) issues he is not seeing the floor until he shapes up a little


----------



## Daveinth

JUCO practice problems does not make a quality D-1 player


----------



## BankShot

sycamorebacker said:


> We didn't see Kitchell last year but I'd bet the ranch he has improved a lot.  And Gant will keep getting better and will be a 12 and 6 guy for us.
> 
> 
> 
> I think DL should be complemented on how he completely changed the way he plays the game.  You don't often see someone improve their decision-making that much in one year.
> I like the way he is driving to his left into the lane and passing off.  Last year, it was always an adventure when he put the ball on the floor.



Ya, he really pressured Wichita State on Friday...bottom line, DL's consistency graph remained virtually the same this season

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH


----------



## BankShot

sycamorebacker said:


> We didn't see Kitchell last year but I'd bet the ranch he has improved a lot.  And Gant will keep getting better and will be a 12 and 6 guy for us.
> 
> 
> 
> I think DL should be complemented on how he completely changed the way he plays the game.  You don't often see someone improve their decision-making that much in one year.
> I like the way he is driving to his left into the lane and passing off.  Last year, it was always an adventure when he put the ball on the floor.



Ya, he really pressured Wichita State on Friday...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH

You wanna see how the MOTION OFFENSE plays with the ISU big men development? Take a glance @ the following Shox results:

RJ
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH

Kitch
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH

Gant
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH

Walker
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH

You can't put a square peg in a round hole...if Lansing doesn't change his offense, you'll see NO DIFFERENCE in player performance. Won't work.


----------



## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> Ya, he really pressured Wichita State on Friday...
> 
> http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH
> 
> You wanna see how the MOTION OFFENSE plays with the ISU big men development? Take a glance @ the following Shox results:
> 
> RJ
> http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH
> 
> Kitch
> http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH
> 
> Gant
> http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH
> 
> Walker
> http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/shotchart/NCAAB_20120302_INST@WICH
> 
> You can't put a square peg in a round hole...if Lansing doesn't change his offense, you'll see NO DIFFERENCE in player performance. Won't work.



Yes, you are right.  Our offense relies too much on dribbling, passing and shooting.  We need to play an offense where shooting and rebounding are not so important. 

Regarding our bigs -- I see our all-stars play every summer and go to the top 40 and I follow the progress of the players like Fromm, Carroll, Andrew Smith, Zeller, and, of course, RJ, Gant and Kitchell.  Our guys are doing just fine and about exactly what you would predict.  They all have a bright future if they work hard and keep their head right.


----------



## Bluethunder

Using the stats from games against WSU is not a fair comparison. First off, they have Upperclass post players and we have one Senior and three Sophomores or Freshman.   Second, we really only have two guys who go down and bang, RJ and Gant are not bangers, unlike the Shockers who all have guys who can post up and bang   

Just don't think it is an apple to apple comparison. Also, as mentioned above, we are talking about a Sophomore and two freshman. Let's have this conversation again I two years and if the stats haven't improved, I will buy you a beer and say you were right.


----------



## BankShot

I used the Shox stats because they were a "representative sample" of the past MVC season. Simply put, the "motion offense" is a perimeter-oriented design which makes it  virtually impossible to develop an INSIDE power game. Without _massive design changes_ by Lansing, I see little difference in the output of Kitchel & Gant as Sycamores.


----------



## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> I used the Shox stats because they were a "representative sample" of the past MVC season. Simply put, the "motion offense" is a perimeter-oriented design which makes it  virtually impossible to develop an INSIDE power game. Without _massive design changes_ by Lansing, I see little difference in the output of Kitchel & Gant as Sycamores.



We get the ball into our center more than about any team I've seen this year!  I don't understand your statement.  An inside game is an integral part of a motion offense.


----------



## Callmedoc

sycamorebacker said:


> We get the ball into our center more than about any team I've seen this year!  I don't understand your statement.  An inside game is an integral part of a motion offense.


There arent many possessions where our bigs didn't touch the ball this year...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Dgreenwell3 said:


> There arent many possessions where our bigs didn't touch the ball this year...



Bullshit.


----------



## Callmedoc

Jason Svoboda said:


> Bullshit.



Just saying, Myles has been called a "black hole", we do get our bigs quite a few touches, it's not like we bobby knight these guys. We need to get our pieces to work together better, I actually think our pick and roll game needs to come back, pick and pop for when RJ or even Gant is on the floor...


----------



## Gotta Hav

sycamorebacker said:


> Yes, you are right.  Our offense relies too much on dribbling, passing and shooting.  We need to play an offense where shooting and rebounding are not so important.
> 
> Regarding our bigs -- I see our all-stars play every summer and go to the top 40 and I follow the progress of the players like Fromm, Carroll, Andrew Smith, Zeller, and, of course, RJ, Gant and Kitchell.  Our guys are doing just fine and about exactly what you would predict.  They all have a bright future if they work hard and keep their head right.



Yeah, that offense that we run is just a set up for BIGS to get offensive rebounds....as matter of fact, we should re-name our Motion Offense to the REBOUNDS-R-US OFFENSE!

And it's a given that RJ, Gant, and Kitchell will work hard and keep their heads right.....the question is, can they have a bright future in an offense that dribbles and passes from 15 - 19 ft for for 25 seconds of the 35 second shot clock...then hopes that someone can go off reservation in the last 8 - 10 seconds to create some offense.

And a big part that off-the-reservation play to create some offense is our Rodeo Playing Point Guard running with abandon towards the baseline and going out of bounds in mid air....looking for a pass back to those at 15 - 19 feet.    Wow, that's an offense that Big Men can thrive and have Bright Future in!!! 

Expect more of the same for the next two years......and yes, let's HOPE that I'm wrong.


----------



## Gotta Hav

sycamorebacker said:


> We get the ball into our center more than about any team I've seen this year!  I don't understand your statement.  An inside game is an integral part of a motion offense.



I think what I saw was....the opposing teams let us get the ball to our center who has a selection of left and right handed shots, second only to Harry Morgans.    

For you members-in-waiting to join the OFC, Harry Morgan was part of the famous Harry and Larry show.    Harry could put on a show one time down the floor, then the next time, make you cringe and say WTF?

Which by the way, if Harry Morgan had not played basketball at ISU, the now commonly used phrase of WTF would have never made it into the American English lexicon.  Thanks Harry!


----------



## Callmedoc

Gotta Hav said:


> Yeah, that offense that we run is just a set up for BIGS to get offensive rebounds....as matter of fact, we should re-name our Motion Offense to the REBOUNDS-R-US OFFENSE!
> 
> And it's a given that RJ, Gant, and Kitchell will work hard and keep their heads right.....the question is, can they have a bright future in an offense that dribbles and passes from 15 - 19 ft for for 25 seconds of the 35 second shot clock...then hopes that someone can go off reservation in the last 8 - 10 seconds to create some offense.
> 
> And a big part that off-the-reservation play to create some offense is our Rodeo Playing Point Guard running with abandon towards the baseline and going out of bounds in mid air....looking for a pass back to those at 15 - 19 feet.    Wow, that's an offense that Big Men can thrive and have Bright Future in!!!
> 
> Expect more of the same for the next two years......and yes, let's HOPE that I'm wrong.



If we want to create an offense where the big men get tons of rebounds call frank Vogel of the Indiana pacers...he has hand made an offense pretty much for the Tyler hansboroughs of the world to be monsters on the glass...


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Suffice it to sy that our offense rarely worked this season, whether it was because guys were standing around or guys couldn't shoot or guys didn't know what to do.  I highly doubt that Lansing got what he wanted from the offense most of the time.  Let's just hope that he can work the kinks out for next season to take better advantage of whatever our strengths turn out to be!

I still think back to his presser when he was hired when he talked about wanting to run a motion type system, but more up tempo like he had worked with with the Phoenix Suns.  Maybe this next season, he'll have the horses he needs to go more that direction.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> We get the ball into our center more than about any team I've seen this year!  I don't understand your statement.  An inside game is an integral part of a motion offense.



Perhaps you should turn on this Creighton vs. Illinois State game if you want to watch 2 teams who feed the post and actually run an offensive from the post. Compared to these teams, we don't use our post players at all.


----------



## Eleven

As much as we don't care for him...Dougie is putting on a clinic right now..


----------



## Bluethunder

IndyTreeFan said:


> .  Maybe this next season, he'll have the horses he needs to go more that direction.



I think this sums it up perfectly.  We will be much more athletic next season and would not be surprised to see a much improved offense.  However, if I am wrong and next year we still struggle to break 55 points in games, then I will start leaning towards the "i hate this offense" crowd.


----------



## sycamorebacker

IndyTreeFan said:


> Suffice it to sy that our offense rarely worked this season,
> .



I don't know that our offense wasn't working.  We were 9th in the conference in FG% and were one shot away from 3rd place.   We did something right. 

I think if we had made more shots we woul have been fine.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Dgreenwell3 said:


> There arent many possessions where our bigs didn't touch the ball this year...



absolutely.

Walker and Kitchell had 259 shots, which does NOT  include inside shots by Gant or RJ.  DL led the team with 270 and CR had 264.


----------



## region rat

Gant, Kitchell, and RJ need to get more physical and become stronger.  They are currently finesse type players and for them to compete in the MVC that has to change.


----------



## BankShot

How many other MVC squads were "one shot away" from a 3rd place finish? Don't let a number cloud reality.


----------



## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> How many other MVC squads were "one shot away" from a 3rd place finish? Don't let a number cloud reality.



Yes, it really concerns me that some of the other teams could have made one more shot.  I think I'll do a study on it and chart the shots to find reality.  I'll get back to you on the what the standings REALLY were in the real world of reality. 

I'm worried that next year we might miss 2 shots.  What we really need to do is make sure that we understand reality and know what really happens next year as we look back.  We don't want to assume that the standings are really what they really are.  

I checked the MVC sight and they don't report what really happened, but, sorry, I tried.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Team lost 72-62 on the 5th. He wasn't mentioned in the game recap.

http://tristate-media.com/drr/sports/local_sports/article_b6203c1a-66de-11e1-a841-001871e3ce6c.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

WVC won it's opening playoff round game 63-59. No mention of him in the recap. NJCAA website shows goose eggs again.

http://www.tristate-media.com/drr/s...cle_bf13b1fe-6a02-11e1-af2f-0019bb2963f4.html


----------



## Gotta Hav

Here's something highlight photos of Samuels in the NJCAA's.


----------



## Indians1

Okay Sycamore fans, Big Mike Samuels is back.  Tonight he helped to lead his team to the Region Championship with 12 points in the second half.  He was a beast!!!!!  Took a charge at a pivotal point in the game.  If he plays like this at the National Tournament, the Warriors may make some serious noise.  Coach Lansing was at the game and he has to be very pleased in Samuels play.

Mike also played well on Friday night in the semi-finals.  I have a few pics and will try to post tomorrow.  Couldn't be happier for this young man in getting back on track for both his future with the Sycamores and helping his current Wabash Valley Warriors.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Indians1 said:


> Okay Sycamore fans, Big Mike Samuels is back.  Tonight he helped to lead his team to the Region Championship with 12 points in the second half.  He was a beast!!!!!  Took a charge at a pivotal point in the game.  If he plays like this at the National Tournament, the Warriors may make some serious noise.  Coach Lansing was at the game and he has to be very pleased in Samuels play.
> 
> Mike also played well on Friday night in the semi-finals.  I have a few pics and will try to post tomorrow.  Couldn't be happier for this young man in getting back on track for both his future with the Sycamores and helping his current Wabash Valley Warriors.



Can you clue us in on why he didn't play for such a long stretch? I know you've got connections.


----------



## Indians1

Jason Svoboda said:


> Can you clue us in on why he didn't play for such a long stretch? I know you've got connections.



Coaches decision.  

Games are online for the NJCAA National Tournament.  WVC doesn't play until 3/21.  http://www.njcaabbtrny.org/home/homepage.htm


----------



## Indians1




----------



## IndyTreeFan

Indians1 said:


> Okay Sycamore fans, Big Mike Samuels is back.  Tonight he helped to lead his team to the Region Championship with 12 points in the second half.  He was a beast!!!!!  Took a charge at a pivotal point in the game.  If he plays like this at the National Tournament, the Warriors may make some serious noise.  Coach Lansing was at the game and he has to be very pleased in Samuels play.
> 
> Mike also played well on Friday night in the semi-finals.  I have a few pics and will try to post tomorrow.  Couldn't be happier for this young man in getting back on track for both his future with the Sycamores and helping his current Wabash Valley Warriors.



This is GREAT news!  Now, let's just hope he keeps it up, and we might be able to put the "month in exile" behind us!!!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Michael Samuels (6'10", C, soph., Bushkill, Pa.): Samuels became the first player in this Wabash Valley CC class to commit to a Division I school when he committed to Indiana State in January. While only averaging 4.8 ppgr, Samuels has good size in the post.He also had interest from Georgia State, Temple and Illinois State.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...or-in-the-njcaa-national-championship/page/16


----------



## Indians1

Mike has played very well this week at the NJCAA National Tournament.  The Warriors lost their first game by two but have since won the next two games.  Today Mike stepped on another players foot and has a severe sprain in an ankle.  Not sure of his status for tomorrow but we will really need him as the Warriors play for 7th place.


----------



## BankShot

Nothing like durability...looks like we've signed a true gamer. He's got his work cut out for him coming on the heels of Kernan & Leitnaker.


----------



## Southgrad07

This is a link to his last game where he got hurt. If you watch it only watch the first half because thats where most of his action is.  He made some really nice offensive moves and hits the boards pretty well. His biggest weakness seemed to be court awareness. He would lose track of smaller players both on the offensive and defensive end. Also he picked up some dumb fouls that he needs to cut out if he wants to stay on the floor at the next level. You can see some potential there with nice post moves and being 6'11-250, but i'd say unless he improves a lot over the summer we wont see him playing a ton next season. However he is not as bad as some of the comments make him out to be. At the very least he is big body who can come in match up physically which we havent always been able to say about our centers. 



http://www.ihigh.com/njcaatv/broadcast_212414.html?silverlight=1


----------



## Callmedoc

BankShot said:


> Nothing like durability...looks like we've signed a true gamer. He's got his work cut out for him coming on the heels of Kernan & Leitnaker.



You forgot Crawford lol...


----------



## Eleven

Dgreenwell3 said:


> You forgot Crawford lol...



He and Martin are both still playing professionally....


----------



## Indians1

Southgrad07 said:


> This is a link to his last game where he got hurt. If you watch it only watch the first half because thats where most of his action is.  He made some really nice offensive moves and hits the boards pretty well. His biggest weakness seemed to be court awareness. He would lose track of smaller players both on the offensive and defensive end. Also he picked up some dumb fouls that he needs to cut out if he wants to stay on the floor at the next level. You can see some potential there with nice post moves and being 6'11-250, but i'd say unless he improves a lot over the summer we wont see him playing a ton next season. However he is not as bad as some of the comments make him out to be. At the very least he is big body who can come in match up physically which we havent always been able to say about our centers.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ihigh.com/njcaatv/broadcast_212414.html?silverlight=1



I believe he has pretty good court awareness.  There were several times during the National Tournament when he was double teamed and he dumped it down to a slashing Nick Wiggins or kicked it out for an open 3.


----------



## Southgrad07

Indians1 said:


> I believe he has pretty good court awareness.  There were several times during the National Tournament when he was double teamed and he dumped it down to a slashing Nick Wiggins or kicked it out for an open 3.



maybe he does. I only watched the one game of his and had the ball knocked away because he did not see smaller defenders and also lost players getting back on transition D. Also players who tend to pick up a lot of fouls many times have poor court awareness and get caught in bad positions leading to fouls. Its hard to judge him off seeing one game but that was just my observation, ill take your word for it since you've seen him play far more often.


----------



## BankShot

Dgreenwell3 said:


> You forgot Crawford lol...



Crawford rarely played low post...I actually liked that guy. He liked to rumble and typically picked up quick fouls, most of the "touch"  variety.  He could've avg-ed, 6-8 pts more/gm in a "shooter oriented" offense, which raises the following question:

 How are ISU's "shooters" EVER gonna get the requisite shots necessary in Lansing's 1/2 court 24.5 sec "motion" (?) offense? We're lucky to get 50/gm, which doesn't spread too thick over the bark of the Trees.


----------



## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> How are ISU's "shooters" EVER gonna get the requisite shots necessary in Lansing's 1/2 court 24.5 sec "motion" (?) offense? We're lucky to get 50/gm, which doesn't spread too thick over the bark of the Trees.



apparently, not a problem.  we were 11-1 this year when our opponents scored 63 or less.


----------



## Callmedoc

BankShot said:


> Crawford rarely played low post...I actually liked that guy. He liked to rumble and typically picked up quick fouls, most of the "touch"  variety.  He could've avg-ed, 6-8 pts more/gm in a "shooter oriented" offense, which raises the following question:
> 
> How are ISU's "shooters" EVER gonna get the requisite shots necessary in Lansing's 1/2 court 24.5 sec "motion" (?) offense? We're lucky to get 50/gm, which doesn't spread too thick over the bark of the Trees.



Crawford was one of the most puzzling guys I have ever seen play for the trees. He could go off one game and disappear completely the next (go off as in seem dominant, control the paint)...seemed to be a bit of a headcase too...I like Josh, he is a good guy, i just saw alot of potential that never was seen (like Lietnaker)


----------



## BankShot

sycamorebacker said:


> apparently, not a problem.  we were 11-1 this year when our opponents scored 63 or less.



So it sounds like you're saying when our opponets score MORE than 63 pts, we're shit outa luck? This is exactly WHY we need MORE SHOTS...and we'll never get 'em unless Lansing makes some drastic changes in his game "theory," which has been aimed at SHORTENING the game, not LENGTHENING.


----------



## Bluethunder

Dgreenwell3 said:


> Crawford was one of the most puzzling guys I have ever seen play for the trees. He could go off one game and disappear completely the next (go off as in seem dominant, control the paint)...seemed to be a bit of a headcase too...I like Josh, he is a good guy, i just saw alot of potential that never was seen (like Lietnaker)



Have to disagree on the "potential" that Lietnaker had. Never once did I see what the coaches were looking at with him. Saw him in high school and it seemedlke it took him 8 seconds to drive from the top of the key to the basket. Was never mpressed with him in high school. Footwork and quickness just werent good enough for this level. Really werent even good enough for high school.


----------



## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> So it sounds like you're saying when our opponets score MORE than 63 pts, we're shit outa luck? This is exactly WHY we need MORE SHOTS...and we'll never get 'em unless Lansing makes some drastic changes in his game "theory," which has been aimed at SHORTENING the game, not LENGTHENING.



I think you accidently got something there.  Why work for a good shot if you can't hit it.  

It kind of like playing golf.  If you have trouble with fairway woods, hit the ball into the trees to give yourself a better shot.


----------



## BankShot

We've touched upon the concept of a "good shot" in prior posts, and most agree that just because a player is unobstructed doesn't lay the foundation of a "good shot." Ever wonder WHY the success of a zone "D"? Sure, players will be wide open in selected areas (usually FARTHER away from the basket, where % becomes an ally of the "D"), but offensive timing & rhythm are also integral aspects of shooting and must be considered. When a team approaches 20+ sec while dancing around the perimeter, do you think the pressure INCREASES or DECREASES to sink a FG? How many players perform BETTER under such conditions?

Former Georgetown coach John Thompson, while providing commentary on the XM broadcast of the IU-KY NCAA game also cited the negative impact of the 3 pt line upon DRIBBLE PENETRATION in college ball, highlighting the fact that teams that rely on the 3 pt shot are generally not gonna draw as many fouls while forcing their opponet to go to the bench, thus challenging the team DEPTH issue. It all adds up.

A "good shot" takes on a number of issues...not just being "open" to pull the trigger.


----------



## region rat

Would like to see more getting the ball into the post for a shot, driving to the basket for a shot, and dishing for open 3's for shot rather than working the clock.


----------



## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> We've touched upon the concept of a "good shot" in prior posts, and most agree that just because a player is unobstructed doesn't lay the foundation of a "good shot." Ever wonder WHY the success of a zone "D"? Sure, players will be wide open in selected areas (usually FARTHER away from the basket, where % becomes an ally of the "D"), but offensive timing & rhythm are also integral aspects of shooting and must be considered. When a team approaches 20+ sec while dancing around the perimeter, do you think the pressure INCREASES or DECREASES to sink a FG? How many players perform BETTER under such conditions?
> 
> Former Georgetown coach John Thompson, while providing commentary on the XM broadcast of the IU-KY NCAA game also cited the negative impact of the 3 pt line upon DRIBBLE PENETRATION in college ball, highlighting the fact that teams that rely on the 3 pt shot are generally not gonna draw as many fouls while forcing their opponet to go to the bench, thus challenging the team DEPTH issue. It all adds up.
> 
> A "good shot" takes on a number of issues...not just being "open" to pull the trigger.



Don't make it too complicated.  A good shot is one you can make at a percentage better than your team average.  

I generally think the 3 has hurt basketball the way it is supposed to be played.  That being said, the good teams can drive when the D is spread to defend the 3 which is good; and the good teams drive a lot.  
The problem with the drive is that the officials do not know what a foul is, so the fouls drawn or committed are at the mercy of the way fouls are traditionally called, which are incorrect.  
I hope next year we can have a balanced offense all over the floor.  I think RJ, Gant and Kitchell will be better scorers inside and out than this year's bigs.  We still have a question mark on our outside game, but it cannot be worse.  I'm hoping that 2-3 of Brown or K Smith or Burnett or McWhorter or Odum can drive and shoot the pullup.   Odum has GOT to hit some 3's to force the D out on him and maybe Steve will get improve his %.


----------



## sycamorebacker

long gone said:


> Would like to see more getting the ball into the post for a shot, driving to the basket for a shot, and dishing for open 3's for shot rather than working the clock.



Absolutely.  Maybe it all takes care of itself if we shoot better.  Then the D is forced to help out and clear some driving and passing lanes.  I think our 3 young bigs will be much more of a scoring threat inside or outside than CR DL, and MW were this year and the D will have to honor that.  
Unfortunately, I think the other teams felt like they could leave those guys open.


----------



## LoudNProud

Will he be eligible to play for ISU next season? Or will he have to sit out?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

LoudNProud said:


> Will he be eligible to play for ISU next season? Or will he have to sit out?


Immediately eligible. He will be a junior and have 2 years of eligibility remaining.


----------



## Whistlegoat

Jason Svoboda said:


> Immediately eligible. He will be a junior and have 2 years of eligibility remaining.


Wow!  Who needs me to certify kids' NCAA eligibility when we have message board members to do it for me!  Amazing!  Sorry, I couldn't resist throwing in a little humor there.

If he satisfies NCAA junior college transfer rules, he will be immediately eligible.


----------



## ISU_TREE_FAN

Welcome aboard new Sycamore "Big Mike" Samuels............................................

GO SYCAMORES!


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Welcome to the Sycamores family Mike!!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Whistlegoat said:


> Wow!  Who needs me to certify kids' NCAA eligibility when we have message board members to do it for me!  Amazing!  Sorry, I couldn't resist throwing in a little humor there.
> 
> If he satisfies NCAA junior college transfer rules, he will be immediately eligible.



Not that I don't appreciate you injecting some humor around here , however Joel this board is actually fairly well educated and informed bunch of people. With any message board you get a mixed bag. Regardless of what Indiana State officials think and believe about this site - you've got a well educated, well informed and die-hard bunch of fans here.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Whistlegoat said:


> Wow!  Who needs me to certify kids' NCAA eligibility when we have message board members to do it for me!  Amazing!  Sorry, I couldn't resist throwing in a little humor there.
> 
> If he satisfies NCAA junior college transfer rules, he will be immediately eligible.



I would imagine you've already done all of that fun stuff if he was able to sign the NLI. :bigsmile:


----------



## BrokerZ

Despite all the discussion surrounding his stats, I have a good feeling about this guy.  Like Lansing said the Trib Star interview, you just can't teach 6'11" and 265 lbs.  I'm sure he needs some polish, but his size alone will help on the boards and help with protecting the rim.  Dribble penetration while we were on defense last year was a problem, so hopefully having a near-seven footer patrolling the paint will help.  Let's hope he knows how to use his size and can stay out of foul trouble.

I also agree with the article in that the JUCO game is more guard-oriented and a more fast-break style that isn't conducive to a 7-footer.  He'll face enough size in the MVC to be a valuable asset.

Welcome to the Sycamore Family, Michael!


----------



## Indians1

In the Tribune Star article it makes reference to his playing time both during the season and the final game at the National Tournament.  The response by Mike should show everyone how he has grown up during this season.  He definitely helped the WVC advance in the tournament.  

The reason he didn't play in the final game was that he stepped on someones foot during the prior game and severely rolled his ankle.  He tried to go but just wasn't able.  I saw him this past weekend at the Clash on the Wabash and he looked great.

Congrats to Mike....I wish you all the success at ISU!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Per ISU coach Greg Lansing,center Mike Samuels will have 2nd surgery on his right foot on Monday. Samuels out at least until January.— Rick Semmler (@Rick_Sports10) May 2, 2013


----------



## BankShot

Geeesh...here we go again. There was obviously a reason why he was getting less than 10 MPG PT during his JC career...and ISU nibbled on the bait and were reeled in. Might be time to cut our losses on this big fish...


----------



## Southgrad07

Well another wasted year with Big Mike. Not the kids fault either. I Put this one on the staff. He had injury, motivation, production problems in JC so we knew what we were getting into as far as him being healthy and productive here. It was high risk chance we took and it looks like it is going to bit us big time. Our frontcourt looks  incredibly thin now for next season. We will most likely be looking at some lineups where Manny and K.Smith are playing some 4. Hopefully TJ Bell is working on his game because we need him to be effective next season!


----------



## pbutler218

Feel terrible for the guy but for Christ's sake we need guys who can play!!! Once again a front line with no height or athleticism. What is our staff doing???? Why can't we recruit bigs like these other schools?? Same old story......


----------



## sycamorebacker

I would like to have a good big too, but you guys are overreacting.  We still have plenty of height to win the Valley.  The staff didn't know that RJ was going to bail on us.  If Smith plays to his potential, he will need to be at the 3 and Arop will have to play some 4 anyway.  With Scott, we have more options and shooting at guard and and we can get more perimeter scoring and pressure D.  Lots of teams play "short" and there are some advantages.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

Here is the whole story from WTHI
http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/sports/indiana_state/mike-samuels-to-have-second-foot-surgery#.UYKTxLXyL6g


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Southgrad07 said:


> Well another wasted year with Big Mike. Not the kids fault either. I Put this one *on the staff. He had injury, motivation, production problems in JC* so we knew what we were getting into as far as him being healthy and productive here. It was high risk chance we took and it looks like it is going to bit us big time. Our frontcourt looks  incredibly thin now for next season. We will most likely be looking at some lineups where Manny and K.Smith are playing some 4. Hopefully TJ Bell is working on his game because we need him to be effective next season!



Do you really think the coaches could have predicted or anticipated a broken bone in anyone's foot, and then the bone not healing right?  I don't have much of a medical or sports medicine background, but that seems unrealistic to me.  What am I missing?


----------



## BrokerZ

SycamoreFan317 said:


> Here is the whole story from WTHI
> http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/sports/indiana_state/mike-samuels-to-have-second-foot-surgery#.UYKTxLXyL6g



Based on this, it doesn't sound like there was anything Samuels could have done.  The bone didn't heal on it's own, which appears to have been a possibility all along.  This has nothign to do with motivation, preparation, etc.; you can't will your bone to heal.


----------



## bent20

I just hope he can play again some day. Sounds like a difficult injury to address. I would hope the staff were already searching for another big man before this news. It's not like we couldn't use some depth there and players to develop. It certainly puts more pressure on the rest of the team, and this team hasn't responded real well to pressure the past two seasons.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> I just hope he can play again some day. Sounds like a difficult injury to address. I would hope the staff were already searching for another big man before this news. It's not like we couldn't use some depth there and players to develop. It certainly puts more pressure on the rest of the team, and this team hasn't responded real well to pressure the past two seasons.



There is a big on campus, but he's more of a 4.


----------



## BankShot

Let's see...please pipe in if I missing a link here:

1. Michael Kernan;
2. Ted Morris;
3. Brent Leitnaker;
4. Samuels.

Anyone wanna make a guess re: the combined productivity  (PPG/Reb/Min) of this crew and the years blown into the wind? Didn't Leitnaker also have chronic foot problems?

As far as Samuels, I was always suspect of his "durability" given his collegiate history of LOW MINUTES coupled w/ his body size.


----------



## Bluethunder

Hope the surgery goes well for Mike.  Will be praying for him.  I am sure he is more frustrated than anyone.  Hopefully this will do the trick and he can get back to the court.


----------



## Daveinth

I may sound like a bastard for saying this but .... I think you gotta cut ties with the kid he is holding up a scholarship and not producing on the court . I highly doubt anyone here has a job where they will hold your job for two years with pay while you are not working . The same goes for a basketball scholarship. If you can not produce you cannot have a free education.


----------



## BankShot

Daveinth said:


> I may sound like a bastard for saying this but .... I think you gotta cut ties with the kid he is holding up a scholarship and not producing oIn the court . I highly doubt anyone here has a job where they will hold your job for two years with pay while you are not working . The same goes for a basketball scholarship. If you can not produce you cannot have a free education.



That's the way it's supposed to work...how many years has ISU been carrying such driftwood, and at what cost to program development?


----------



## Bluethunder

So we complain that college athletics has become too much like professional sports, and then when a guy gets hurt on the court, we want to cut him to find a healthy player?  That sounds like something an NFL or NBA team would do.  Actually, it doesn't even sound like an NBA team because look how long Greg Odum was kept by the Trail Blazers while they tried to help him rehab and recover.


----------



## BankShot

Was Samuels EVER "healthy" for Division I basketball?


----------



## agrinut

Daveinth said:


> I may sound like a bastard for saying this but .... I think you gotta cut ties with the kid he is holding up a scholarship and not producing on the court . I highly doubt anyone here has a job where they will hold your job for two years with pay while you are not working . The same goes for a basketball scholarship. If you can not produce you cannot have a free education.



In a job if you are hurt at work you are eligible for workers comp. I'm not suing ISU shouldn't cut ties (let him finish his degree) just not sure how to go about it.


----------



## BlueBleeder

Daveinth said:


> I may sound like a bastard for saying this but .... I think you gotta cut ties with the kid he is holding up a scholarship and not producing on the court . I highly doubt anyone here has a job where they will hold your job for two years with pay while you are not working . The same goes for a basketball scholarship. If you can not produce you cannot have a free education.



Actually they cannot fire you while you are recovering from an injury that you sustained while on the job.  The ass bag employers may cheat and find some other "reason" to fire you, but they cannot for injury.  Federal aw states, "An employer, after providing adequate accommodations, can fire you once you return if you are unable to perform the work."  I supposed ISU could cut his scholarship if after the doctor releases him he is unable to play to D1 caliber.  You would think that Big Mike would also know he wouldn't be able to play at this level and simply "leave" the team.  

I hope he makes a full recovery and can provide that big body ISU needs in the paint.  I feel bad for him, he seems to work hard and wants to succeed.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

What happens in instances like this is if the doctor's tell the staff that the kid is unlikely to play again, they'll convert the kid to an academic "medical" scholarship. It doesn't happen everywhere, but I've seen schools like Notre Dame do this. I don't know if Indiana State does it, but I can guarantee you that this has been discussed by the staff. You've got to consider every option and circumstance. 

A lot will be determined by the second surgery. If best case is that Samuels would be back by January, do you want to insert someone coming off injury into the lineup towards the end of your conference slate when your rotations are likely set? May depend on how the other bigs are playing or it may depend on how he looks in practice.


----------



## Southgrad07

If its deemed he cant play by doctors after the surgery then go with the route jason pointed out. If he has a chance to recover and play come january then keep him on for this yr and then evaluate his progress to see if we want to keep him for a 5th yr. By then he should have his degree  or at least he should bc this next season will be his 4th yr in school.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

Jason Svoboda said:


> What happens in instances like this is if the doctor's tell the staff that the kid is unlikely to play again, they'll convert the kid to an academic "medical" scholarship. It doesn't happen everywhere, but I've seen schools like Notre Dame do this. I don't know if Indiana State does it, but I can guarantee you that this has been discussed by the staff. You've got to consider every option and circumstance.
> 
> A lot will be determined by the second surgery. If best case is that Samuels would be back by January, do you want to insert someone coming off injury into the lineup towards the end of your conference slate when your rotations are likely set? May depend on how the other bigs are playing or it may depend on how he looks in practice.



NCAA has given a 6th year for situations like this. In any case I think we have stick with the young man until he receives his degree or uses up his eligibility whichever comes first.


----------



## Bluethunder

Jason Svoboda said:


> What happens in instances like this is if the doctor's tell the staff that the kid is unlikely to play again, they'll convert the kid to an academic "medical" scholarship. It doesn't happen everywhere, but I've seen schools like Notre Dame do this. I don't know if Indiana State does it, but I can guarantee you that this has been discussed by the staff. You've got to consider every option and circumstance.
> 
> A lot will be determined by the second surgery. If best case is that Samuels would be back by January, do you want to insert someone coming off injury into the lineup towards the end of your conference slate when your rotations are likely set? May depend on how the other bigs are playing or it may depend on how he looks in practice.



And I don't have an issue with moving to him to a different scholarship if doctors determine that he cannot play.  I do have a problem with just cutting him lose and moving on to the next person.  People on here have complained about the tactics and treatment SEC schools have shown players, but then some would want to just cut Samuels off and move on because of an injury that is a product of his work here at Indiana State?  Doesn't sit right with me.


----------



## BankShot

Since he was on scholarship last year, that's year #3. This '13-14 season is year #4, and if he can't recover fully, ISU $upport should cease. If he wants to transfer and play out his final year somewhere else, more power to him. Given his playing history @ WVJC, I don't see any changes forthcoming in his contribution to ISU basketball. Foot injuries like this never disappear - especially when they're carrying a payload of 270+ lbs.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Posted on Twitter today that he was going under the knife. Regardless of what people feel his prospects are, everyone should wish him a safe, successful and speedy surgery and recovery.


----------



## Bluethunder

Jason Svoboda said:


> Posted on Twitter today that he was going under the knife. Regardless of what people feel his prospects are, everyone should wish him a safe, successful and speedy surgery and recovery.



Amen.

God Bless big guy. God speed on the recovery as well.


----------



## hans1950

Hang in there big fella.Get well this time and keep working hard in school.That degree will last a lot longer than basketball.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

hans1950 said:


> Hang in there big fella.Get well this time and keep working hard in school.That degree will last a lot longer than basketball.



I'd say something original, but it wouldn't be better than this.  Ditto...


----------



## Bluethunder

hans1950 said:


> Hang in there big fella.Get well this time and keep working hard in school.That degree will last a lot longer than basketball.



Well said


----------



## SycamoreFan317

I just hope he will be able to walk and play in the yard with his kids without fear of additional injury or pain.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

Are we interested in him? I heard he would be a great addition to the team.


----------



## TreeTop

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> Are we interested in him? I heard he would be a great addition to the team.



Not sure if you're joking or not.

If you're not...

http://www.gosycamores.com/ViewArti...B_OEM_ID=15200&ATCLID=205436442&Q_SEASON=2013


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

Ok.. I didn't know u were talking about him..I've heard nothing but good things about him..


----------



## SycamoreFan317

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> Ok.. I didn't know u were talking about him..I've heard nothing but good things about him..



What is your problem? You have no idea who is current or former? Why don't you go find a tornado to stand in.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

God bless you.. I know my son is going to be an asset to the team, unlike you & your rude comments.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

SycamoreFan317 said:


> What is your problem? You have no idea who is current or former? Why don't you go find a tornado to stand in.



Maybe he needs you to demonstrate that specific activity.  You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?  I know that is an OFC line.  Sorry!


----------



## TreeTop

SycamoreFan317 said:


> What is your problem? You have no idea who is current or former? Why don't you go find a tornado to stand in.



Lame.  Why not educate instead of denigrate.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Anyone hearing anything new on him? Watching him at the Ball State game he is just massive. Wonder how he looks compared to Kitchell in the post. Is January the target date still?

http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?27839-2014-2015-Eligibility-Chart


----------



## Blue Streaker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Anyone hearing anything new on him? Watching him at the Ball State game he is just massive. Wonder how he looks compared to Kitchell in the post. Is January the target date still?
> 
> http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?27839-2014-2015-Eligibility-Chart



He is just now running on a gravity treadmill.  I think you will see him apply for a medical red shirt.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Blue Streaker said:


> He is just now running on a gravity treadmill.  I think you will see him apply for a medical red shirt.



I'd imagine he'd get denied honestly. It seems very few medical redshirts get granted, especially after someone redshirted the previous year like he did. Will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## slobjones

What's the full update on Samuels? Can't find details anywhere, and his name is never mentioned on any media outlets I've seen.


----------



## Coach

slobjones said:


> What's the full update on Samuels? Can't find details anywhere, and his name is never mentioned on any media outlets I've seen.



Welcome aboard................and this is your first post ?


----------



## TreeTop

slobjones said:


> What's the full update on Samuels? Can't find details anywhere, and his name is never mentioned on any media outlets I've seen.



http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?28526-Mike-Samuels-(Small-Update)&p=190267#post190267

That's the most updated info we have.


----------



## pbutler218

I seriously doubt you'll ever see him suit up for the sycamores. I heard his foot is just not healing. Unfortunate for the young man.


----------



## Bluethunder

Golden tweeted today that Samuels has been having limited practice with the team and is still estimated for a mid January return to action.


----------



## bluestreak

Samuels tweeted last week that he participated in his first practice - said  it felt great.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

bluestreak said:


> Samuels tweeted last week that he participated in his first practice - said  it felt great.



Let's hope that he is ready to make a difference with this team regardless of his role for the remainder of this season.  He has to be chomping at the bit.


----------



## BankShot

Curious...what will Samuel's "role" be within the current Sycamore format? Expectations?


----------



## Bluethunder

BankShot said:


> Curious...what will Samuel's "role" be within the current Sycamore format? Expectations?



I have no expectactions for the young man.  Anything he can give us in the form of rebounds, quality minutes, post defense, putbacks, etc is a bonus.  Doubt he will play more than ten minutes a game for awhile.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I don't see him finding mins. on this roster.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Bluethunder said:


> I have no expectactions for the young man.  Anything he can give us in the form of rebounds, quality minutes, post defense, putbacks, etc is a bonus.  Doubt he will play more than ten minutes a game for awhile.



This makes sense to me.  It might be a stretch for him to play ten minutes at first. I really hope he can contribute enough to feel that the stuff he has encountered the last couple of years was worthwhile.


----------



## BankShot

It's gonna be almost impossible to blend him into rotation, not to mention the liability he'll create because of game fitness, lack of timing & rhythm. Pretty hard to hold the team back for one (1) person...his true value might be in PRACTICE.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

BankShot said:


> It's gonna be almost impossible to blend him into rotation, not to mention the liability he'll create because of game fitness, lack of timing & rhythm. Pretty hard to hold the team back for one (1) person...*his true value might be in PRACTICE*.



It is hard to play well with good competition without working hard with good practice players. Ideally he will recognize this, at least at first, and be comfortable with it. Getting practice with a good big could be a big contribution for him


----------



## hans1950

Hard to figure where the minutes would come from.Kitch doesn't get that many most nights but who knows.


----------



## Daveinth

I think it is hard to even call him a player who will get any minutes. He has not played in 2 years and when he played in JUCO he averaged 2 points per game . I cannot see him getting any minutes when he gets back . Fact is at this point TJ Bell is a better option for those minutes as he has practiced and is in much better condition . It will be very hard for big Mike to get into playing shape and be a contributor at this point in the seasson .


----------



## GuardShock

He has another year of eligibility correct?


----------



## skdent1414

BankShot said:


> It's gonna be almost impossible to blend him into rotation, not to mention the liability he'll create because of game fitness, lack of timing & rhythm. Pretty hard to hold the team back for one (1) person...his true value might be in PRACTICE.



If our overall goal is to make the NCAA tourney, we will most likely face a team from a high major conf with a size mismatch down low. I don't buy the fact that adding a 7-0 footer that has beef could hurt us. Think back to Syracuse a few years back and how we could have benefitted from more size than 6'7 Isaiah Martin coming off the bench. He can only help us. Get into shape big fella because we are reaching that goal!


----------



## Bluethunder

Sycamore Proud said:


> This makes sense to me.  It might be a stretch for him to play ten minutes at first. I really hope he can contribute enough to feel that the stuff he has encountered the last couple of years was worthwhile.



You are probably right, ten minutes might be too generous.  It will probably all depend on too many variables for us to accurately predict his time in the games.  Between his conditioning, knowledge of the offense, situational match ups vs opponents, etc, he will probably be used when needed for as long as he can contribute.  Again, anything he can contribute is just icing at this point and hopefully he isn't putting too much pressure on himself to do too much.

His goal this year should be to prepare his body and mind to make larger contributions next year.


----------



## Patriot_Sycamore

Im going out on a limb and say he will contribute. He wont get a ton of minutes, but according to matchups Ill guess he gets 8-9 MPG. 

He will have certain sets just for him on the low block and will have another 5 fouls for us in the post. Meech (D Moore) can get in foul trouble and Kitch has been in doghouse, bring in 6'11 285lbs, The best bigman I can think of on other teams in the Valley is Tuttle, I don't think anyone can match with Samuels. Play 2-3 with him at front of rim, and Gant Khristian on wings, Odum and many up top...be hard for others to matchup.

But he will be limited minutes-wise for conditioning and rusty wise. Use him in situations, it can work to our benefit for Conference.

I watched him before injury during practices, he ran floor good for a big, guys were throwing alley-oops in transition to him. Had great hands around basket, this was before Bahamas trip.


My point is Lets not write him off, I think he will help


----------



## BankShot

Patriot_Sycamore said:


> * Play 2-3 with him at front of rim, and Gant Khristian on wings, Odum and many up top*...be hard for others to matchup.
> 
> But he will be limited minutes-wise for conditioning and rusty wise. Use him in situations, it can work to our benefit for Conference.
> 
> I watched him before injury during practices, he ran floor good for a big, guys were throwing alley-oops in transition to him. Had great hands around basket, this was before Bahamas trip.
> 
> 
> My point is Lets not write him off, I think he will help



That zone might do wonders in thwarting the problem we've had re: "dribble penetration." We can't afford losing Gant & Moore to fouls...


----------



## Patriot_Sycamore

BankShot said:


> That zone might do wonders in thwarting the problem we've had re: "dribble penetration." We can't afford losing Gant & Moore to fouls...



At east maybe they would need to stop and pop from 5ft or so, and arch it over his huge reach...


----------



## Daveinth

Well my point was not to write him off but not to get our hopes up to high because very few of us have seen him play and he has not played 1 minute of game action since the Bahammas trip. Anything he may add is striclty bonus .


----------



## GuardShock

Someone said he played in the bahamas, are there any statistics from that trip?


----------



## BankShot

Tidbits in the articles:

http://www.sycamorepride.com/search.php?searchid=48818


----------



## TreeTop

I tried posting Todd Golden's tweet, but it wasn't displaying properly, so here it is....(sorry Todd)...

_Saw a bit more of Mike Samuels at practice today. It'll take time for him to get into playing shape. I plan to write about him this weekend.

2:05 PM - 31 Dec 2013_

Credit to Todd Golden for this posting.


----------



## TreeTop

Tried to post the embedded code, but didn't work.

Todd Golden's Tweet today:

"Not a big surprise, but C Mike Samuels won't play this year. Greg Lansing said he'll help in practice, but doesn't want to burn a year."


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Just don't get this move. In fact, I'd rather cut bait with him after this year. He should be set to graduate provided he has worked hard in the classroom and since he has been injured both years here he damn well should be. NCAA is also very stingy with sixth years.


----------



## BankShot

I agree...doubt that he's in any shape to contribute THIS season, so Lansing doesn't have an option. I just don't see a "1 yr. impact" forthcoming, and year #3 ISU wasted investment $$$. Cut your losses and move on...you'd think we'd have learned our lessons from the past.:hypnotized:


----------



## sycamorebacker

I tend to agree with both of you but maybe we should see what he can do next year.  We might have to eat our words.  He is big!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

This goes out to all the funny people on Sycamore Pride that kept asking about him...


----------



## BankShot

sycamorebacker said:


> I tend to agree with both of you but maybe we should see what he can do next year.  We might have to eat our words.  He is big!



I guess Lansing feels we've already got two yrs. of "sunk costs," so might as well endure the full risk with the HOPE of some return off of the investment. If Kitch & Gant hit the weights as "suggested" by SSOM this Summer, :biggrin: I don't see where Samuels would get his minutes in '14-'15.


----------



## BudDawgII

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> This goes out to all the funny people on Sycamore Pride that kept asking about him...



.......well...well....well we finally get at least a sentence or two about the mysterious ---Michael Samuels!  Maybe Coach Lansing and or his buds read last weeks bitches on here about why no one every tells us anything about this kid and his progress!  Hell....at some point you have to own this recruit or at least tell folks why it hasn't or isn't going to work out!  Just seems like solid information is always so damn hard to get...out of this athletic department!

As good as our team is.....just think where we might be with a healthy Samuels and if Mahurin hadn't been chased off!  Oh well----guess it is what it is!
Anyway glad to see you have started to finally get positive about Brown!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

*'12 IL C Michael Samuels (LOI)*

No no no, a few folks on here have been telling this forum the long and short of it all along - some have selective reading abilities.

I've only been positivr about Brown because he has started to play under control and not turn the rock over ever other time down the floor. I've been spot on about Brown all along and I don't need you or anyone else to tell me that. I call the game as I see it - so me being positive toward Brown's play is due to him playing more. Nothing else. I don't post for "likes" like some people do around here.

I'm not much of an "if" guy either... So yeah, Mikes Samules was never in the pictute this year and had you listened to some people on this forum then you wouldn't have needed any info. from the athletic department. He wasn't in the picture at all to play this season.


----------



## BankShot

BudDawgII said:


> .......well...well....well we finally get at least a sentence or two about the mysterious ---Michael Samuels!  Maybe Coach Lansing and or his buds read last weeks bitches on here about why no one every tells us anything about this kid and his progress!  Hell....at some point you have to own this recruit or at least tell folks why it hasn't or isn't going to work out!  Just seems like solid information is always so damn hard to get...out of this athletic department!
> 
> As good as our team is.....just think where we might be with a healthy Samuels and if Mahurin hadn't been chased off!  Oh well----guess it is what it is!
> Anyway glad to see you have started to finally get positive about Brown!



I think Lansing saw Samuels as a possible "stealth" weapon this season. Frankly, I'd rather see him pounding a few Shox into the hardwood in "Arch Madness" next month if he's capable. Who cares about "burning a year?" We've already BURN'T two (2). I'm not a manana type of guy...I'm all for loading the ISU ammo cart and rolling into St. Louis with guns firing!


----------



## BudDawgII

Bullshit....no one in a position of authority ....has said shit about the plans for this kid ...all season long.   Only when a few of us ....started questioning hard why no one ever tells us the truth on whats going on do we now suddenly get some calculated thoughts about his status!  Do you think---maybe--just maybe --Todd G. gets his stories from Syc Pride!

Did I  touch a nerve!  Sure its easy to jump on a players bandwagon when he has a good game! LMAO  See it on here every week!  I could give a shit about likes--thanks--rep power etc just saying shit gets old when one week players are trashed and the next week --if they have a good game---they are the greatest thing since sliced bread!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

*'12 IL C Michael Samuels (LOI)*



BudDawgII said:


> Bullshit....no one in a position of authority ....has said shit about the plans for this kid ...all season long.   Only when a few of us ....started questioning hard why no one ever tells us the truth on whats going on do we now suddenly get some calculated thoughts about his status!  Do you think---maybe--just maybe --Todd G. gets his stories from Syc Pride!
> 
> Did I  touch a nerve!  Sure its easy to jump on a players bandwagon when he has a good game! LMAO  See it on here every week!  I could give a shit about likes--thanks--rep power etc just saying shit gets old when one week players are trashed and the next week --if they have a good game---they are the greatest thing since sliced bread!



The only nerve you touched was suggesting that I had all the sudden opened my eyes to Browns great play, it suggestes he has been doing it all along when simply has not... It's not open for debate or opinion - facts support it so we can move on, just as the facts support he's playing better when he plays in control. 

Other than that, naaa I really don't have a problem with you needing to hear it from Lansing to accept it - that's fine by me. You can do a general Samules search and see who has been saying what about him for the better part of his time on campus - feel free to report your findings. I've personally been consistant. 

And yes, Todd Golden reads this forum - he'd be silly not to read this forum.


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## BudDawgII

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The only nerve you touched was suggesting that I had all the sudden opened my eyes to Browns great play, it suggestes he has been doing it all along when simply has not... It's not open for debate or opinion - facts support it so we can move on, just as the facts support he's playing better when he plays in control.
> 
> Other than that, naaa I really don't have a problem with you needing to hear it from Lansing to accept it - that's fine by me. You can do a general Samules search and see who has been saying what about him for the better part of his time on campus - feel free to report your findings. I've personally been consistant.
> 
> And yes, Todd Golden reads this forum - he'd be silly not to read this forum.



IMO...you have only recently opened your eyes to Browns play and potential.  You might want to consider what his role will be next year on this team?
Sorry if I hurt your feelings----but unless your on the payroll ---I put more credibility on what I hear/don't hear and what I see/don't see and will always favor hearing it from the coaches mouth rather than SSOM's opinions or perceptions!  Sorry but its not all about you!


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## bent20

Not surprised they don't share more, like it or not most coaches and programs don't get into details about what is going on with players or what their intentions are. Also, everyone is assuming he will be back. Maybe and maybe he'll contribute, but I doubt Lansing would say, "we plan to cut him, or see him leave by his own choice" come this off-season. Why would he say that right now?


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## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> Not surprised they don't share more, like it or not most coaches and programs don't get into details about what is going on with players or what their intentions are. Also, everyone is assuming he will be back. Maybe and maybe he'll contribute, but I doubt Lansing would say, "we plan to cut him, or see him leave by his own choice" come this off-season. Why would he say that right now?



The assumption that he will be back is based on Golden's quote about preserving a year of eligibility. No point in making that comment unless that was the plan, no? Because if he doesn't come back it looks like you lied to your beat writer, no? 

I agree on you that they should say nothing and that is what they usually do unless it pertains to injuries like Mike's case.


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## Blue Streaker

I thought I overheard someone from the foundation say that this is Samuels last year.


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## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> The assumption that he will be back is based on Golden's quote about preserving a year of eligibility. No point in making that comment unless that was the plan, no? Because if he doesn't come back it looks like you lied to your beat writer, no?
> 
> I agree on you that they should say nothing and that is what they usually do unless it pertains to injuries like Mike's case.



If he's done I think the answer was fine.


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## BudDawgII

Blue Streaker said:


> I thought I overheard someone from the foundation say that this is Samuels last year.



I've also heard that and wouldn't be surprised if Lansing also tests the water and use his record to leave and advance his career elsewhere.


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## sycamorebacker

BudDawgII said:


> I've also heard that and wouldn't be surprised if Lansing also tests the water and use his record to leave and advance his career elsewhere.



He's starting to build a resume and we all know what will happen if that continues.


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## BudDawgII

sycamorebacker said:


> He's starting to build a resume and we all know what will happen if that continues.



Trust me....when I tell you that coaches are every bit as concerned about "THEIR" win/loss ratio---regardless of the strength of the schedule ---as they are about making it into the big dance!!  Bottom line is if you win a lot of games---even if they are ugly wins---u position yourself for the opportunity to move up as a coach in the ranks and into the discussion when better jobs open up!
Just nature of the beast and you can damn sure bet that when coaching salaries are skyrocketing ---they are going to play the weak schedule game and keep their mouths shut when it comes to comments about other coaches and/or programs!
ISU basketball will go on just fine ---with or without Lansing!  So I don't really care if he stays or leaves and understand the game for what it is!


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## GuardShock

BudDawgII said:


> I've also heard that and wouldn't be surprised if Lansing also tests the water and use his record to leave and advance his career elsewhere.



I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that thinks this. But I really wish you wouldn't bring this topic up. Let me rephrase this, I think that you've been let down too many times by times getting good and then coaches leaving. I know I'm a student, I know I'm ignorant in SO many cases. But try looking at the bright side. I refuse to make friends with people that are pessimistic? Why? Because they can make anything bad. I will always be a glass half full kind of guy. Being optimistic is way more fun.


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## skdent1414

Listed as a transfer on ESPN's updated transfer list. Has this been a fact for awhile or is this fresh news? First I've heard of it.


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## TreeTop

skdent1414 said:


> Listed as a transfer on ESPN's updated transfer list. Has this been a fact for awhile or is this fresh news? First I've heard of it.



You're the first to have mentioned it on this board, so it's fresh news to me.


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## TreeTop

skdent1414 said:


> Listed as a transfer on ESPN's updated transfer list. Has this been a fact for awhile or is this fresh news? First I've heard of it.



Is Demetrius Moore mentioned?


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## TreeTop

Quabachi said:


> Is Demetrius Moore mentioned?



No need to answer that, I found it, and yes he is.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...ry-transfer-2014-offseason-college-basketball


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## GuardShock

That means we have an open scholarship yes?


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## sycamorebacker

Quabachi said:


> No need to answer that, I found it, and yes he is.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...ry-transfer-2014-offseason-college-basketball



Does ISU have a Public Relations person?  Someone needs to get info out to the fans.  We are the reason we have a freakin' team.


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## Jason Svoboda

Quabachi said:


> Is Demetrius Moore mentioned?



We've posted it numerous times in other threads. Prusator took his scholarship.


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## Bluethunder

Jason Svoboda said:


> We've posted it numerous times in other threads. Prusator took his scholarship.



The news about Samuels is new though.  Glad to see he will at least graduate.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bluethunder said:


> The news about Samuels is new though.  Glad to see he will at least graduate.


That is correct. I'm tired and apparently didn't follow the conversation string well enough. 

That said, I think I'm going to put together an eligibility chart.


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## bent20

Got a scholarship, got to graduate and never played a game. Kind of crazy.


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## Chief_Quabachi

Reminds me of some government programs.


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## Jason Svoboda

Landed at Eastern Michigan.


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## Parsons

Will he get one year or two?


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## bent20

That's amusing if only because it throws it in the face of some of these people ripping Lansing for giving him a shot. Not that Eastern Michigan is a great destination, but he's going to a MAC school, substantially better than many here thought he could do. Sort of like the Pacers giving Hibbert a big contract. You never shy away from a big man with some potential.


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