# Tanner and his college selection process



## Jason Svoboda

Tanner took the SAT roughly two weeks ago. These last two weeks we probably have received a redwood of mail from pretty much everyone across the country. Lots of new schools have started sending him mail. Today's crop included George Mason, Illinois State, Otterbein, Mizzou, Penn State, Wabash, Michigan and Miami of Ohio. 

Interesting to see who sends the most... so far, Vanderbilt is that guilty party. We've also now received mail from every MVC school but Indiana State University. If he hadn't thrown out a bunch of stuff, it may have been cool to see which entire conferences he got spam from. I know all that is left from the Big 10 is Michigan State and Northwestern. Farthest college that sent him something was Cal State - Riverside. He has also received something from pretty much every school in Indiana but ISU and Notre Dame. 

His scores should be coming in any day now I think. Will be interested in seeing what he got since he didn't study for it.


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## xfactor9600

Are you shocked that ISU hasn't sent him anything?


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## Jason Svoboda

xfactor9600 said:


> Are you shocked that ISU hasn't sent him anything?


Sadly, no because Eleven has explained how they contact before. I just think it's stupid because they're missing out on good students by waiting so long to start getting into the conversation. On the flip side, he has been to Summer Honors there as well as on a campus visit. So in that regard, I am.


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## xfactor9600

Jason Svoboda said:


> Sadly, no because Eleven has explained how they contact before. I just think it's stupid because they're missing out on good students by waiting so long to start getting into the conversation. On the flip side, he has been to Summer Honors there as well as on a campus visit. So in that regard, I am.



I went to Hoosier Boys State in the summer of 95 at ISU. I never received single thing from them when I was applying for colleges. I think they need to revamp how they deal with people who actually set foot on their campus versus someone in Utah who might just look at a brochure.


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## Bally #50

I am assuming Tanner is your son, right? Is he an athlete or honor student? Somehow I must have come in in the middle of the movie, so to speak. Congrats either way.


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## Jason Svoboda

He got a 2000/2400. I think that's decent, no?


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## Callmedoc

Jason Svoboda said:


> He got a 2000/2400. I think that's decent, no?



Damn good.


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## Bally #50

Congrats. So is he like some kind of academic giant?


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## Jason Svoboda

Bally #46 said:


> Congrats. So is he like some kind of academic giant?



He's smarter than I am... I know that much. LOL

Honestly think he is a product of the excellent school system we have here in Fishers.


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## Bally #50

Jason Svoboda said:


> He's smarter than I am... I know that much. LOL
> 
> Honestly think he is a product of the excellent school system we have here in Fishers.


Nothing better than a proud dad. I come from a family of over-achievers and somehow it seems that they took the water out of the gene pool when I was born.


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## Sackalot

It is beyond ridiculous that he hasn't received anything from ISU at this point...beyond it!  Parents that are both alums, greek alums, been to the summer honors program, campus visit...come on!  What does it take to get a freakin' letter from ISU?  At least a letter about the Summer Honors Scholarship (that they probably can't fund anymore).


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## Bally #50

Sackalot said:


> It is beyond ridiculous that he hasn't received anything from ISU at this point...beyond it!  Parents that are both alums, greek alums, been to the summer honors program, campus visit...come on!  What does it take to get a freakin' letter from ISU?  At least a letter about the Summer Honors Scholarship (that they probably can't fund anymore).


I'd sure give a call to admissions, or better yet his/her boss up the daisy chain a bit. If it was me, hell, I'd write an e-mail to Dan Bradley because this really SUCKS. They will never solve the problem until they RECOGNIZE the problem. I was irked by your comments the other day when you said everyone has sent letters but our alma mater. Disgusting.


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## Jason Svoboda

Does Indiana State do anything like this? *RHETORICAL*... no need to answer.



> Dear Nathan,
> 
> First of all, let me congratulate you on your high school accomplishments. You already stand out among your peers, and as you put the finishing touches on your junior year, I'd like to share some good news: You're on Xavier University's list of top prospects.
> 
> For that reason, I want to express how interested I am in seeing your application to Xavier early this fall. Because you're on our list, you won't have to pay an application fee, and you'll be automatically considered for merit-based scholarships and awards.
> 
> Nathan, you're receiving this message and exclusive invitation because of the promise we see in you. Xavier University is committed to helping impressive students like you reach your full potential through a combination of strong academics and one of the friendliest communities you'll ever come across.
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing your application this fall ... but in the meantime, I invite you to relax and enjoy the summer ahead!
> 
> Sincerely,
> Aaron J. Meis
> Dean of Undergraduate Admission
> Xavier University
> 3800 Victory Parkway
> Cincinnati, OH 45207-5131



His direct quote was "I wish Indiana State did something like this because I'm definitely going to apply to Xavier now" -- no shit, right? Followed by "if Indiana State would market how they are an affordable alternative to IU, maybe they wouldn't be looked at so badly." LMAO... from a 16 year old. Earth to the admissions folks at Indiana State.


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## Jason Svoboda

BTW, the entire Valley has now mailed besides Indiana State after Loyola sent him a nice packet. Vanderbilt continues to send him mail weekly after visiting his school two years ago now. I find the admissions marketing practices by various college and universities to be absolutely fascinating.

Also, not sure how many of you watch Letterman, but back in 2002, he had a hilarious bit where he was talking about Vassar College and kept saying "What is this, Vassar?" throughout his entire show. The wife and I watched that together and laughed about it for months but couldn't remember the school name. We'd reference it by couldn't remember until Tanner got an admissions packet in the mail a couple weeks ago. Had to be there, but we cracked up.


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## hans1950

By actively seeking the best students these other schools can't go wrong with who they are able to admit.It seems like ISU is sitting back and hoping to get good students to apply and just hoping some of them come here.If not they can always fill each class with lesser choices as long as they pay their tuition.Just another example of the self image problem ISU can't seem to shake.


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## Jason Svoboda

hans1950 said:


> By actively seeking the best students these other schools can't go wrong with who they are able to admit.It seems like ISU is sitting back and hoping to get good students to apply and just hoping some of them come here.If not they can always fill each class with lesser choices as long as they pay their tuition.Just another example of the self image problem ISU can't seem to shake.



He was also telling me that the automatic merit scholarships at IU make it cheaper to attend IU over Indiana State. I thought he was wrong, but he was surely right. I knew better to think his research was off. Here are the numbers:

IU Excellence -- $36,000 ($9,000 per year) The IU Excellence Scholarship is awarded to students in the state of Indiana who meet each of the following criteria: Indiana resident; minimum SAT score of 1330 (up from 1310) or minimum ACT score of 30; minimum GPA of 3.80 on a 4.0 scale.

$23,118 per year - $9,000 = $14,118

Academic Excellence Scholarship -- $8,000 ($2,000 a year) A cumulative grade point average of at least 3.7 on a 4.0 scale; An 1100 SAT (combined critical reading and mathematics) or 24 ACT (composite); Ranking in the top 10% of the senior class.

$20,026 per year - $2,000 = $18,026

So how does Indiana State plan on getting the top minds in the state to attend when it's more expensive than the "name brand" school in the state?

Sources: 
http://admit.indiana.edu/cost/tuition.shtml
http://www.indstate.edu/tuition/overview.htm


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## Sackalot

I am not going to do the research, but I am curious of a few things at IU.

Does any student accepted with that criteria get the IU Excellence?

Does every student get the Academic Excellence Scholarship if they meet the criteria?  Or are these limited to 300 students or 1,000 incoming freshman types of scholarships?

I just don't know...how it all works at IU.  Doesn't really matter anyway, ISU wouldn't be able to fund any scholarships like these...they just don't have the funding from donors and from the state and from other sources of revenue.  IU can probably fund scholarships like this just from licensing agreements alone...(not really but it sounds good...


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## Jason Svoboda

Sackalot said:


> I am not going to do the research, but I am curious of a few things at IU.
> 
> Does any student accepted with that criteria get the IU Excellence?
> 
> Does every student get the Academic Excellence Scholarship if they meet the criteria?  Or are these limited to 300 students or 1,000 incoming freshman types of scholarships?
> 
> I just don't know...how it all works at IU.  Doesn't really matter anyway, ISU wouldn't be able to fund any scholarships like these...they just don't have the funding from donors and from the state and from other sources of revenue.  IU can probably fund scholarships like this just from licensing agreements alone...(not really but it sounds good...



Yeah, I don't know. This is his baby and he did the research for me when I said I didn't believe him. I guess any opportunity to prove me wrong is a good one. From the beginning I've preached to him to select the best option that will allow him to get out of undergrad with little to no student loan debt so he can spend that money on his graduate degree. Will be interesting to see where he ends up since it's his money and decision.


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## agrinut

Jason Svoboda said:


> Yeah, I don't know. This is his baby and he did the research for me when I said I didn't believe him. I guess any opportunity to prove me wrong is a good one. From the beginning I've preached to him to select the best option that will allow him to get out of undergrad with little to no student loan debt so he can spend that money on his graduate degree. Will be interesting to see where he ends up since it's his money and decision.



This is the same method my parents used, I was fortunate to graduate a little over $2,000 in debt for my undergrad and extremely fortunate to have my masters paid for. One thing I learned in my research was similar to Tanner's and that was there was almost no difference in the cost of the state schools after scholarships, however the competition for additional scholarships were less at MSU as compared to UM-C. One thing to keep in mind going forward.


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## landrus13

I remember when I was applying for college a couple years ago, I never received anything from Indiana State and I lived in the same town. I even attended some things they had on campus. My uncle even went there about a decade ago and I didn't receive squat from them. All I received them was the letter I got about a month after I applied to ISU.


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## Sackalot

I am going to have to ask a friend of mine who is, lets say in Admissions, to just explain why this is the way it is...

Because it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.  I understand not spending the money on print/letters/packets via USPS or UPS.  There is a significant cost to that.  But not even an email, not a YouTube invitation to apply, nothing?  Just seems obtuse at best to me.  But I am sure there is a reason, I am sure that there is some kind of explanation and justification for why it is done this way.  Not sure I would agree with it, but there is a good reason I am sure.


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## LoyalAlum

Has a link to this thread been sent to Dr. Bradley?  If not, it should be.


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## Bally #50

Sackalot said:


> I am going to have to ask a friend of mine who is, lets say in Admissions, to just explain why this is the way it is...
> 
> Because it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.  I understand not spending the money on print/letters/packets via USPS or UPS.  There is a significant cost to that.  But not even an email, not a YouTube invitation to apply, nothing?  Just seems obtuse at best to me.  But I am sure there is a reason, I am sure that there is some kind of explanation and justification for why it is done this way.  Not sure I would agree with it, but there is a good reason I am sure.



Of all the subjects being discussed on SP right now, this one irks me the most. Despite enrollment on a steady increase, how many students are we MISSING OUT ON, because of this kind of crap? I no longer consider myself a person of influence at ISU or I would be sending these threads to someone. It starts back with the guidance counselor and we all know that, but I even read that Tanner's was an ISU grad as well (was I dreaming that)? Dr. Bradley likely has no clue what is going on down at admissions and is focused in on the "numbers" instead of the actual recruiting going on. Someone should really take the time to forward this on. 

It's one of the best threads I have seen on here. Put it to use. SEND it somewhere.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bally #46 said:


> Of all the subjects being discussed on SP right now, this one irks me the most. Despite enrollment on a steady increase, how many students are we MISSING OUT ON, because of this kind of crap? I no longer consider myself a person of influence at ISU or I would be sending these threads to someone. It starts back with the guidance counselor and we all know that, but I even read that Tanner's was an ISU grad as well (was I dreaming that)? Dr. Bradley likely has no clue what is going on down at admissions and is focused in on the "numbers" instead of the actual recruiting going on. Someone should really take the time to forward this on.
> 
> It's one of the best threads I have seen on here. Put it to use. SEND it somewhere.



Nope, his guidance counselor is a IU/Butler dual grad. I believe SF317 stated the individual over at HSE is an Indiana State alum.


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## Jason Svoboda

agrinut said:


> This is the same method my parents used, I was fortunate to graduate a little over $2,000 in debt for my undergrad and extremely fortunate to have my masters paid for. One thing I learned in my research was similar to Tanner's and that was there was almost no difference in the cost of the state schools after scholarships, however the competition for additional scholarships were less at MSU as compared to UM-C. One thing to keep in mind going forward.



This is a good point and I've mentioned this to him as something to think about. I'm pretty sure he plans on applying to Indiana, Indiana State, Ball State and Purdue to see who gives him the best deal even though he hates Purdue. He also really likes DePaul for some reason -- I think it's the big city feel since I've been taking him to Chicago almost yearly on vacations.


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## Jason Svoboda

I messaged back and forth with an admissions counselor (Marie) on Twitter yesterday. She sent me some info on how ISU handles it but I can't access Twitter here at work so I'll post their process when I get home tonight. She was very helpful and a great follow on Twitter.


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## SycamoreFan317

Jason Svoboda said:


> Nope, his guidance counselor is a IU/Butler dual grad. I believe SF317 stated the individual over at HSE is an Indiana State alum.


Director of Guidance at HSE is a 1975 Terre Haute North graduate, a 1979 ISU graduate with major in Social Studies, former captain (1978-79) of ISU Sparkettes she got her MS at Butler in Guidance.


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## Sackalot

The fact that cross referencing between the alumni database and the potential student database is not happening is strange.  Maybe it is harder to do that it would appear to be. But if ISU knows that an alumnus ,both parents, no less have a child that is of the age to apply for admission and has not received anything is just beyond me.  Now, I understand that it would take some time, but one would think that the names of children of alumnus would be tracked in the system...maybe I am wrong.  And you would think that the system could flag a birthdate of the children.  And when that child is 17, a letter is sent to them (for example).  Maybe there is more to it but it would seem somewhat simple...???


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## Jason Svoboda

Sackalot said:


> The fact that cross referencing between the alumni database and the potential student database is not happening is strange.  Maybe it is harder to do that it would appear to be. But if ISU knows that an alumnus ,both parents, no less have a child that is of the age to apply for admission and has not received anything is just beyond me.  Now, I understand that it would take some time, but one would think that the names of children of alumnus would be tracked in the system...maybe I am wrong.  And you would think that the system could flag a birthdate of the children.  And when that child is 17, a letter is sent to them (for example).  Maybe there is more to it but it would seem somewhat simple...???


In other news, Vandy sent another mailer today.


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## agrinut

Jason Svoboda said:


> In other news, Vandy sent another mailer today.



Jason, does he have an idea what he wants to do career wise? I know I didn't, just wondering how this young man is gonna change the world.


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## Jason Svoboda

agrinut said:


> Jason, does he have an idea what he wants to do career wise? I know I didn't, just wondering how this young man is gonna change the world.



He wants to go into business.


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## Jason Svoboda

Tanner was selected and interviewed for a study abroad program in London this Summer. He was one of 20 kids selected with 4 openings. Unfortunately, he wasn't selected and was pretty disappointed.


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## Jason Svoboda

Still nothing from Indiana State.


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## Sackalot

UNREAL!  Literally, unreal!!!!!!!!!!!  

There is literally no marketing, recruitment concept that gives an answer to why Tanner has not received anything from ISU.  Both parents - ISU Alums.  Kid attended Summer Honors program.  Attended campus visit with admissions.  This is borderline incompetence!  

It is embarrassing!  As an alumnus I am embarrassed, seriously!  Embarrassed!  No..not embarrassed, ashamed is probably a better word.  Why in the world would I ever suggest to any child of mine or of friends to attend a university that doesn't even care to send 1 piece of literature or even 1 email that costs nothing to a young man with two parents that are alums, who paid to attend summer honors and has been on a campus visit, who has the grades that Tanner has?   It is incomprehensible to me, no excuse, no story, no explanation is good enough on this one.  

I am sending a letter to several people on this one...this is inexcusable!  (by the way, in the grand scheme of things this is not the end of the world and I realize that).  This is a symptom of bigger problems


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## BankShot

Sounds like you need to penetrate "the ISU good ol' boyz" circle...hno:


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## IndyTreeFan

Sackalot said:


> UNREAL!  Literally, unreal!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> There is literally no marketing, recruitment concept that gives an answer to why Tanner has not received anything from ISU.  Both parents - ISU Alums.  Kid attended Summer Honors program.  Attended campus visit with admissions.  This is borderline incompetence!
> 
> It is embarrassing!  As an alumnus I am embarrassed, seriously!  Embarrassed!  No..not embarrassed, ashamed is probably a better word.  Why in the world would I ever suggest to any child of mine or of friends to attend a university that doesn't even care to send 1 piece of literature or even 1 email that costs nothing to a young man with two parents that are alums, who paid to attend summer honors and has been on a campus visit, who has the grades that Tanner has?   It is incomprehensible to me, no excuse, no story, no explanation is good enough on this one.
> 
> I am sending a letter to several people on this one...this is inexcusable!  (by the way, in the grand scheme of things this is not the end of the world and I realize that).  This is a symptom of bigger problems



If it makes you feel any better (and it won't) my son is in the same boat.  Top 5% of his class, over a 4.0 GPA, gets truckloads of mail every day from colleges all over (St. Bonaventure seems to loooooooooove him) and has never heard a word from ISU, except for when his grandfather went in and "complained" about the lack of contact.  One post card since, and nothing else.

Definitely a big problem...


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## SycamoreFan317

Who are they sending letters to then?


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreFan317 said:


> Who are they sending letters to then?



If you want my honest opinion, they go for the low hanging fruit. They go after first generation college students, 21st century scholars and have really put a focus in out-of-state markets. Lets call it what it really is... the easy money. There is also a diversity angle in play here, too. A large majority of these kids end up flunking out or transferring elsewhere. If you look at the school's retention rates, I don't think I'm wrong in this assumption.

While I think it is important in giving opportunities to the above mentioned groups, they shouldn't be the lion share of your student population. In this thread you have two different children of alumni, both distinguished academically and neither have heard from their parent's alma mater. Yet, you see admissions folks tweeting every day. Priorities are definitely in place at State. 

Some outcomes data: http://irt2.indstate.edu/ir/index.cfm/main/data/rg


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## xfactor9600

Jason Svoboda said:


> If you want my honest opinion, they go for the low hanging fruit. They go after first generation college students, 21st century scholars and have really put a focus in out-of-state markets. Lets call it what it really is... the easy money. There is also a diversity angle in play here, too. A large majority of these kids end up flunking out or transferring elsewhere. If you look at the school's retention rates, I don't think I'm wrong in this assumption.
> 
> While I think it is important in giving opportunities to the above mentioned groups, they shouldn't be the lion share of your student population. In this thread you have two different children of alumni, both distinguished academically and neither have heard from their parent's alma mater. Yet, you see admissions folks tweeting every day. Priorities are definitely in place at State.
> 
> Some outcomes data: http://irt2.indstate.edu/ir/index.cfm/main/data/rg



This enrollment policy is also affecting future donations as well. A kid like Tanner is likely to donate money to his alma mater some day or serve the University as an ambassador. The kid that flunks out that wasn't college ready isn't sending a cent to ISU.


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## IndianaState45

xfactor9600 said:


> This enrollment policy is also affecting future donations as well. A kid like Tanner is likely to donate money to his alma mater some day or serve the University as an ambassador. The kid that flunks out that wasn't college ready isn't sending a cent to ISU.



Agreed... this kind of stupidity makes me reconsider my annual gift. Why would I support an organization this inept?


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## SycamoreFan317

Jason Svoboda said:


> If you want my honest opinion, they go for the low hanging fruit. They go after first generation college students, 21st century scholars and have really put a focus in out-of-state markets. Lets call it what it really is... the easy money. There is also a diversity angle in play here, too. A large majority of these kids end up flunking out or transferring elsewhere. If you look at the school's retention rates, I don't think I'm wrong in this assumption.
> 
> While I think it is important in giving opportunities to the above mentioned groups, they shouldn't be the lion share of your student population. In this thread you have two different children of alumni, both distinguished academically and neither have heard from their parent's alma mater. Yet, you see admissions folks tweeting every day. Priorities are definitely in place at State.
> 
> Some outcomes data: http://irt2.indstate.edu/ir/index.cfm/main/data/rg



Remember that survey blasting the instructors, well get used to it because no accomplished instructor wants to teach a much of goof ball students. Target the better students and the better instructors will at least consider us.


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## Jason Svoboda

Tanner got a similar email that Xavier sent from Georgetown today. Bucknell has started sending a lot of stuff.


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## Jason Svoboda

xfactor9600 said:


> This enrollment policy is also affecting future donations as well. A kid like Tanner is likely to donate money to his alma mater some day or serve the University as an ambassador. The kid that flunks out that wasn't college ready isn't sending a cent to ISU.


Without a doubt.

If Tanner decides he wants to visit Xavier, I may be hitting you up for info, suggestions, etc.


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## xfactor9600

Jason Svoboda said:


> Without a doubt.
> 
> If Tanner decides he wants to visit Xavier, I may be hitting you up for info, suggestions, etc.



Absolutely. Just let me know.


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## Sackalot

Jason Svoboda said:


> If you want my honest opinion, they go for the low hanging fruit. They go after first generation college students, 21st century scholars and have really put a focus in out-of-state markets. Lets call it what it really is... the easy money. There is also a diversity angle in play here, too. A large majority of these kids end up flunking out or transferring elsewhere. If you look at the school's retention rates, I don't think I'm wrong in this assumption.
> 
> While I think it is important in giving opportunities to the above mentioned groups, they shouldn't be the lion share of your student population. In this thread you have two different children of alumni, both distinguished academically and neither have heard from their parent's alma mater. Yet, you see admissions folks tweeting every day. Priorities are definitely in place at State.
> 
> Some outcomes data: http://irt2.indstate.edu/ir/index.cfm/main/data/rg



Agree completely, but you can't get much lower hangin' fruit than the children of alumni can you?  One would think that it would be a slam dunk.  Or has ISU learned that alumni are less likely to suggest that their children attend ISU?  It is an interesting question, did alumni have a good enough experience at ISU to suggest it to their kids...I would bet that many alumni would say no, they would not suggest it to their kids.  Not because ISU was a bad school or experience, but that they want their kids to have a different experience.  Certainly something that a good survey of alumni might tell us the answers too.


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## Jason Svoboda

Sackalot said:


> Agree completely, but you can't get much lower hangin' fruit than the children of alumni can you?  One would think that it would be a slam dunk.  Or has ISU learned that alumni are less likely to suggest that their children attend ISU?  It is an interesting question, did alumni have a good enough experience at ISU to suggest it to their kids...I would bet that many alumni would say no, they would not suggest it to their kids.  Not because ISU was a bad school or experience, but that they want their kids to have a different experience.  Certainly something that a good survey of alumni might tell us the answers too.


Sorry, I should have been more clear. By long hanging fruit I meant low income, Pell grant types.


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## Jason Svoboda

Tanner received something today from Indiana State.


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## xfactor9600

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner received something today from Indiana State.



Letter, brochure, scholarship offer?


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## Jason Svoboda

xfactor9600 said:


> Letter, brochure, scholarship offer?


I'll find out and post when he gets home.


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## Jason Svoboda

The packet contained a letter from John Newton offering a personal tour, a reply card and a Indiana State information guide.

Tanner is already asking me what day I can get off to go down.


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## SycamoreFan317

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner received something today from Indiana State.



Sounds like somebody heard about this thread, somehow, some way.


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## agrinut

Jason Svoboda said:


> The packet contained a letter from John Newton offering a personal tour, a reply card and a Indiana State information guide.
> 
> Tanner is already asking me what day I can get off to go down.



He should be receiving something similar soon from Missouri State COBA (College of Business Administration).


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## Sycamore Proud

Jason Svoboda said:


> The packet contained a letter from John Newton offering a personal tour, a reply card and a Indiana State information guide.
> 
> Tanner is already asking me what day I can get off to go down.



Finally, for whatever reason, its happened.  It's great that he is excited about a campus visit.


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## Bally #50

Jason Svoboda said:


> The packet contained a letter from John Newton offering a personal tour, a reply card and a Indiana State information guide.
> 
> Tanner is already asking me what day I can get off to go down.


I'll be brief because this whole "good ol' boy" concept has my blood curdling. Here's one "good ol' boy" that has come thru on a regular basis, gentlemen. John Newton and I go back at least 45 years and I will tell you that this GOB, has accomplished more for ISU than ANY alumni, old or new EVER. Leave it to John to try and salvage it. John is the sole reason that my nephew came to Indiana State and flourished after failing at Kentucky and I will never (nor will my family ever forget)..... that we were able to pull this success story off with him. I hope we get to the bottom of this horrendous story about our admissions office blowing this from the get-go. I love John Newton because he gets it. Some good old boys are worth their weight in gold and don't you forget it~


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## Parsons

If anyone knows Indiana State University, it is John Newton.


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## Sackalot

I know that John gets on here from time to time.  I hope that he knows how it makes me proud to see that he took the necessary steps!  I also hope that he brings up the need to address the core issue here...how many children of alumni feel slighted, how many alumni feel slighted when this happens.  Because if it happens to Jason's young Tanner it happens to most alumni and their children.  

A change is needed in the process.  And, maybe I am wrong, but it shouldn't be a big change, but a simple change.  Tracking children of alumni and their age would seem to be something that could and should be done.  If asked by the alumni association, I would gladly let them know my children's names, ages, grade in school, etc.  And I would think that most would do the same?  Maybe I am wrong.


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## SycamoreLynch

If you guys make it in town I would more than gladly volunteer to take you guys around.  Show you anything you want to see.  Answer any questions I can.  I'm working summer orientation so I love helping out potential students and families.  I would be glad to help out a Sycamore Pride friend. 

I know you guys are talking about John.  He is a fantastic person.  I don't want anything thinking I'm trying to compete with him or anything.  Just letting Jason and anyone for that matter know that I'd be glad to help anyone out in the admissions process.


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## rapala

Lynch are you going to be around next week?  ITF's son will be visiting us next week and I thought we might be able to hook up sometime, and you could give him insight.


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## Bally #50

rapala said:


> Lynch are you going to be around next week?  ITF's son will be visiting us next week and I thought we might be able to hook up sometime, and you could give him insight.


Hey Rap Man, you've been around for a long time and should know a thing or two about admissions. What are your thoughts on all of this? I am absolutely stunned with ISU lack of attention with Boda's kid, and obviously HS students across the board. This is sickening on any level, IMO.


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## SycamoreLynch

rapala said:


> Lynch are you going to be around next week?  ITF's son will be visiting us next week and I thought we might be able to hook up sometime, and you could give him insight.



I will be around but our New Student Orientation starts on Monday.  The only day that would work for me would be Wednesday afternoon or Thursday.  Private Message if you'd like I'll share contact information with you if you are coming to town I'd be glad to meet up.


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## sycamore tuff

Jason Svoboda said:


> He got a 2000/2400. I think that's decent, no?



That has got to be the lowest score I have ever heard of.  A .833333333 does not sound too good.  Anyway, I am just joking, I have no idea what these scores represent.  I am pretty sure when I took it a perfect score was 2000 (1000 math, 1000 verbal).


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## Jason Svoboda

Tanner is on campus today meeting with John Newton.


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## Jason Svoboda

sycamore tuff said:


> That has got to be the lowest score I have ever heard of.  A .833333333 does not sound too good.  Anyway, I am just joking, I have no idea what these scores represent.  I am pretty sure when I took it a perfect score was 2000 (1000 math, 1000 verbal).



According to this site (http://colleges.findthebest.com/) the best average SAT score in the state is DePauw at 1790. According to the site, Indiana State's average SAT score is 1360.


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## Bob Evans

John Newton is THE BEST. What we had seen of ISU as parents with prospective students in the standard campus-tour-days was unimpressive at best. I KNEW BETTER because I am an alumnus. Talking to John made all the difference. He set up a day for my daughter to come to campus and attend classes. He set up a meeting with my son and a professor in his major field. He made the difference in both of their decisions to be a Sycamore.

Fast forward several years at an ISU basketball game. John rounds the corner and sees me (no warning). Immediately, he calls me by name and asks about both my kids by name. One had already graduated, one was still in school. What an amazing fellow and a great ambassador for ISU. It is people like him that keep ISU a special place. But I thought he had retired?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

John is a good man. He visits this forum
from time to time - he doesn't do much in the way of posting, just reads. 

He is a great representation of Indiana State and what it means to be a Sycamore! Comes from a great family that I've known for many years.


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## Sackalot

John did retire, but you can't get him away from ISU...its John!  I believe he is now the Emeritus VP of the Alumni Association (or something like that).  He is still as active as ever, it seems!  John is great!


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## Jason Svoboda

Well, from what I hear, Tanner had a fantastic visit. They spent the night with the wife's parents up in Rosedale last night, but the wife said John really made an impression. I think he needed to hear/see one's passion about Indiana State from someone other than myself and he certainly got that. 

He still plans on visiting Indiana but I think those are his two finalists. From what I gather, he dislikes Ball State, hates Purdue and can't afford Notre Dame.


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## Sackalot

Well, maybe this would be considered your donation, Boda.......  INSIDE JOKE!


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## Jason Svoboda

For those interested, Tanner will be visiting IU next Thursday prior to the IU/ISU football game.

Does anyone know if ISU lets kids shadow current students so they can see what classes are like?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

I have not heard of anything like that Jason.


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## SycamoreLynch

I will let him join me if that is something he is interested in doing.


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreLynch said:


> I will let him join me if that is something he is interested in doing.



He is wanting to go into Business/Finance so he'd probably want to go to those classes. I told him to contact the School of Business to see if they can set up anything like that. Apparently it is an option at IU from what he has been told.


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## Jason Svoboda

At IU... 

uke:

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Tapatalk


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## Jason Svoboda

Tanner got his official welcome packet today. It also looks like if he wants to be a Sycamore, his education is on the house. I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm incredibly proud of him.


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## SycamoreFan317

That is great, great news and you should be proud of him.


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## Sycamore Proud

Outstanding!!! Proud as well you should be.


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## xfactor9600

Awesome news Jason!


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## Bluethunder

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner got his official welcome packet today. It also looks like if he wants to be a Sycamore, his education is on the house. I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm incredibly proud of him.



A credit to his hard work and parental guidance along the way.


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## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner got his official welcome packet today. It also looks like if he wants to be a Sycamore, his education is on the house. I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm incredibly proud of him.



False alarm. Apparently the "customized" brochure he got had the wrong numbers in it.


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## Bally #50

Jason Svoboda said:


> False alarm. Apparently the "customized" brochure he got had the wrong numbers in it.



Where's the "dislike" button.    :-(


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## Sycamore Proud

Jason Svoboda said:


> False alarm. Apparently the "customized" brochure he got had the wrong numbers in it.



Unbelievable!  No wait, why am I not totally surprised?


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## Jason Svoboda

Sycamore Proud said:


> Unbelievable!  No wait, why am I not totally surprised?



Well, to be fair, I think Tanner filled out their Net Price Calculator awhile back so he probably didn't know the answer to the parent financial questions. Anyhow, it is absolutely beyond frustrating knowing we have a kid that busted his ass in the classroom and there is a remote possibility he can't go to college. The Expected Family Contribution numbers are absolutely ridiculous in my opinion in the fact that they don't take into account any expends a family may have. I'm still paying off undergrad loans and the wife has graduate degree loans, we've got a mortgage, car notes and a boatload of medical related expenses due to our youngest son Nicolas. Hell, we shell out $600/month in medications for him alone. According to the NPC I just fixed, we'd have to borrow roughly $8,000 in PLUS loans a year in addition to him borrowing $5,000 a year based on the $14k EFC number we have. We'd have to sell our house to even make that possible.

I don't know if anyone else is in the same boat as we are right now, but it is a curse being in the middle class at times. To compound matters, I spent this evening going through 8 different scholarship sites with him and he literally qualifies for nothing except the national scholarships that are absolutely flooded with applicants. His college attendance is riding on him getting a highly competitive scholarship like the President's or University Honors Scholarship and that makes me feel like I failed him. Sorry for the venting, but it just flat out sucks.


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## Sycamore Proud

Wow, I suggest you get on good terms with one of the "higher ops" in the financial aid office.  His work in high school needs to be recognized.  He has put too much it this to not be rewarded.


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## Jason Svoboda

Sycamore Proud said:


> Wow, I suggest you get on good terms with one of the "higher ops" in the financial aid office.  His work in high school needs to be recognized.  He has put too much it this to not be rewarded.



Nah... if he is going to win one of them, it needs to be done on his merit. I know there are thousands of kids out there in the same boat he is and I feel bad for those kids, too. While I understand the way the system is setup, the outcomes data tells me the system is broken on some fundamental level. My wife floated the idea of arranged marriage to him last night since he could then qualify for free college... she has been coming up with cockamamie schemes to hold back the tears. I applaud her creativity. LOL

Anyhow, he has scheduled to take the SAT again on October 5th and I'm working on finding some people he can do mock interviews with in case he gets selected for the interview process. As I've told him since I began talking to him about college, it's on his shoulders. The light goes on, it's time to perform. He is hoping to improve his critical reading score as he only got a 650 on that. He got a 740 on math and most schools only factor in those two scores. IU told him if he could get the 1390 into the mid 1400s, he'd have additional scholarship opportunities.


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## SycamoreFan317

My niece's daughter just started at Rose-Hulman her parents were divorced and she lived with her dad and step-mother. Her parents income totals about $50K her step-mother who has no legal standing with her is over 100K. Well financial counts the income for the household where she lives at so since that income was over 100K she did not qualify for any federal loans or grants. Hard to understand how they count income of somebody that has no legal standing with the student just because they live in the same house.


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## bluestreak

I feel your pain. Our youngest graduated from Mizzou in May (went there because its one of the best Journalism Schools in the world) and even after she became a resident of Missouri, the tuition, room and board, etc. was over 20k a year. She was able to get a Student Loan for about 5k so "Ma" and I had to take out the Parent Plus Loan every year. Mychaela got a job right away, (weekend anchor and reporter for WPSD, Paducah) but there is no way she could afford the $800  a month Parent Plus Loan payment on top of the payment for the Student Loan that's in her name ....so that's why at age 62 I am driving a car with 278,000 miles on the odometer. Hopefully in a couple of years she'll be making enough to make those payments.

The system is screwed up because there are those in Congress who want to completely eliminate the program altogether, and while they don't have the votes to accomplish that, they can force limits that make it difficult for many people to qualify. There were some similar snafus back in the early 70's. My Mom and dad had been divorced for many years and I had little or no contact with my Dad. Although my dad had a high income, my Mom, two sisters and I were lower, lower middle class. Barely scraped by... (lived right around the corner from Charlie's - called Tweedy's back then), but I had to declare my Dad's income under new qualifying rules and lost my loan! So few students were qualifying for financial aid that ISU was at risk of losing literally thousands of students, so if the fog of age hasn't clouded my recollection too badly, Congress had to make some changes and all worked out. This was probably about 1972. Okay, I'm rambling, happens to those in the OFC. The point  'Boda, is that I can sympathize with your situation, and hope it all works out. My only suggestion is to reopen that FAFSA application and make sure all the correct boxes are checked. Good luck to you and Tanner.


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## IndianaState45

Indiana 529 can net you 1k a year as a touch of help. ISU has many other scholarships other than the big ones if he misses out. Dean's etc. The Lilly Foundation might also have some help. Hope that helps a touch.


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## Sycamore Proud

I didn't mean to do anything unethical or underhanded.  High school guidance people say there are many scholarships, up into thousands if dollars, that are not awarded each year because no one applies for the award.  I hope HSE people are on the ball and point him in the right direction.


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## Jason Svoboda

Tanner got his acceptance into Ball State today. He was offered the Presidential Scholarship and accepted into the Honors College. He's now been accepted into all three schools he is looking at in IU, Ball State and Indiana State. Looks like wherever he can get the most aid. Hoping he can somehow land one of the big scholarships at ISU on top of the merit they've already offered.

He was also nominated by his school for the Lilly Endowment Community Scholarship in Hamilton County. Man, this college nonsense is stressful. I can only imagine how he feels right now. Anyone else with kids going to college next year? How is your money hunt going?


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## GuardShock

Well, being a student at ISU, I can only offer so much advice. I come from a middle class family. Above average grades in high school. (3.6 gpa), and average SAT scores. I have almost no scholarships but got some financial aid through the FAFSA. If he were to get a presidential scholarship, that would be fantastic!! Although for me, I lived on campus my freshmen year which costs about $9,000 a year and I worked 20-25 hours a week. I then moved off my sophomore year to my own apartment and now use my loans to cover my apartment costs. Living in an apartment with a roomate cuts my costs GREATLY, and now I don't have to have a job because of the extra money from my loans. Although I still do work and live off of it the best I can and I try to save as much as I can within reason. It ain't easy. But it is bogess that they expect the parents to contribute. I do not expect my parents to pay any of my schooling and honestly prefer it that way. Why should my parents pay for me to go to school and so I can just be a free loader? How is that supposed to teach me to be responsible? I have to push myself through school to get good grades to get a good job post college to pay back my loans and have a good life. 

Although I wish tanner the best and I hope he gets a good scholarship through ISU. I'm an honors student and I know quite a few of Presidential Scholars and they really deserve it. Also the Honors Dorm (Pickerl) is FANTASTIC and I highly reccomend it. They make living in a dorm so easy! Your own bathroom and shower, co-ed floors , and quiet hours. Most kids are responsible and it is nice to be put around other smart students.


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## Jason Svoboda

GuardShock said:


> Well, being a student at ISU, I can only offer so much advice. I come from a middle class family. Above average grades in high school. (3.6 gpa), and average SAT scores. I have almost no scholarships but got some financial aid through the FAFSA. If he were to get a presidential scholarship, that would be fantastic!! Although for me, I lived on campus my freshmen year which costs about $9,000 a year and I worked 20-25 hours a week. I then moved off my sophomore year to my own apartment and now use my loans to cover my apartment costs. Living in an apartment with a roomate cuts my costs GREATLY, and now I don't have to have a job because of the extra money from my loans. Although I still do work and live off of it the best I can and I try to save as much as I can within reason. It ain't easy. But it is bogess that they expect the parents to contribute. I do not expect my parents to pay any of my schooling and honestly prefer it that way. Why should my parents pay for me to go to school and so I can just be a free loader? How is that supposed to teach me to be responsible? I have to push myself through school to get good grades to get a good job post college to pay back my loans and have a good life.
> 
> Although I wish tanner the best and I hope he gets a good scholarship through ISU. I'm an honors student and I know quite a few of Presidential Scholars and they really deserve it. Also the Honors Dorm (Pickerl) is FANTASTIC and I highly reccomend it. They make living in a dorm so easy! Your own bathroom and shower, co-ed floors , and quiet hours. Most kids are responsible and it is nice to be put around other smart students.



I feel for you. The EFC truly is laughable considering it doesn't take any real world issues into account. If we were able to put our yearly medical expenses into the equation (having two folks in the household with mental illness), Tanner would be going to school on the house. If we were in the position to pay for Tanner's school, we'd do it. We actually put our house on the market three weeks ago in hopes of getting our equity out of it so we could help him out... so if anyone is looking for a nice house in Fishers, let me know. 

Anyhow, keep plugging away and enjoy college to the fullest. I would love to do it all over again!


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## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner got his acceptance into Ball State today. He was offered the Presidential Scholarship and accepted into the Honors College. He's now been accepted into all three schools he is looking at in IU, Ball State and Indiana State. Looks like wherever he can get the most aid. Hoping he can somehow land one of the big scholarships at ISU on top of the merit they've already offered.
> 
> He was also nominated by his school for the Lilly Endowment Community Scholarship in Hamilton County. Man, this college nonsense is stressful. I can only imagine how he feels right now. Anyone else with kids going to college next year? How is your money hunt going?



Tanner got a call today inviting him to interview for the Networks Scholarship. He's now got interviews for that and the Presidential at Indiana State and the Lilly Endowment Scholarship. Really hoping one of these come through for him as he has busted his tail. Also thankful that the folks at ISU were able to move his Presidential Scholarship interview as he is participating in Model UN in Chicago on the date he was originally scheduled... so if anyone from State that handles that reads this... thank you.


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## Bally #50

That's even better news that the Sycamores going 4-0 in conference. (Well, maybe that is a _slight_ exaggeration).


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## Jason Svoboda

Heased to HMSU for Tanner's Presidential Scholarship interview. Positive vibes much appreciated.


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## Jason Svoboda

ITF and family here. Can we just give these two fine young men scholarships and be done with it?


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## BlueHeart

We had three kids go through Indiana State, (so did we). The last kid was awarded the President's Scholarship and additionally was awarded scholarships in her field of study, so she actually came out a bit over cost each semester (not huge around $60/semester). The extra scholarship allowed her to get a private dorm room. The first two, however, had no scholarships whatever. Sadly both attended Terre Haute South when the Guidance offices dealt more with behavior issues than with informing students about available scholarships...long time ago and hopefully it's better now. Anyway, mom started working to help pay for these two kids (2 years apart) expecting to do the best we could to get them through with minimal student loans. Not eligible for any government assistance as were were barely over the income limit. #1 Son went to his orientation where we found out there is actually a pay as you go type of deal between Indiana State and Tuition Managements Systems. (links below). For a one time fee of $55 (no interest charged) you can enroll, set your budget and make monthly payments. Both #1 and #2 kids got part time jobs as security officers at a local manufacturing facility, made enough money to make their own payments, had time on the job to study a bit (great company that actually encouraged this) and graduated with absolutely no debt. Even if your son gets "some" help, I highly recommend this program as it was totally unexpected and a wonderful way to get your education without incurring a mountain of debt.
http://www.indstate.edu/express/paymentplans.htm
http://tuitionmanagementsystems.com/


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## Jason Svoboda

Excellent info, will definitely look into that. Still crossing my fingers.


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## Jason Svoboda

Mini rant and I'm sure some of you out there can relate.

Tanner was nominated by Fishers High School counselors and ended up getting selected to interview for the Lilly Endowment scholarship. The scholarship interview date (this morning) was scheduled after we paid several hundred dollars for him to participate in Model UN through his school. So yesterday afternoon he was bused to Chicago and yesterday evening after work the wife and I drove up to Chicago to pick him up, bring him back so he can interview today in Carmel and then the wife had to take today off to drive him back up to Chicago back to the conference. 

The wife calls me today at work frustrated and almost in tears saying almost the entire 15 minute interview, yes, 15 minute interview, was about financial need. So 3 tanks of gas later, Tanner missing our on a portion of his Model UN experience, not to mention the wife having to miss work today wasted for 15 minutes of questions to a kid about if he has financial need? Really? Man, talk about someone wanting to strangle someone -- this guy right here.

So he is likely to be DQ'd after today for that, our house is still sitting on the market trying to sell it so we can find him college money while there will be millions of kids going to college on the house that don't want to be there and likely won't stick. The middle class loses again.


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## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> Mini rant and I'm sure some of you out there can relate.
> 
> Tanner was nominated by Fishers High School counselors and ended up getting selected to interview for the Lilly Endowment scholarship. The scholarship interview date (this morning) was scheduled after we paid several hundred dollars for him to participate in Model UN through his school. So yesterday afternoon he was bused to Chicago and yesterday evening after work the wife and I drove up to Chicago to pick him up, bring him back so he can interview today in Carmel and then the wife had to take today off to drive him back up to Chicago back to the conference.
> 
> The wife calls me today at work frustrated and almost in tears saying almost the entire 15 minute interview, yes, 15 minute interview, was about financial need. So 3 tanks of gas later, Tanner missing our on a portion of his Model UN experience, not to mention the wife having to miss work today wasted for 15 minutes of questions to a kid about if he has financial need? Really? Man, talk about someone wanting to strangle someone -- this guy right here.
> 
> So he is likely to be DQ'd after today for that, our house is still sitting on the market trying to sell it so we can find him college money while there will be millions of kids going to college on the house that don't want to be there and likely won't stick. The middle class loses again.



That.  Bites.

I feel 'ya, bro...


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## Eleven

GuardShock said:


> Well, being a student at ISU, I can only offer so much advice. I come from a middle class family. Above average grades in high school. (3.6 gpa), and average SAT scores. I have almost no scholarships but got some financial aid through the FAFSA..



???  You should have received a free laptop and $1,500 per year at the very least...  That's automatic.


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## Jason Svoboda

My bigger issue is why not let the kid do it over Skype? Especially since it was only 15 minutes long.

I came to grips with the money issues months ago. Our house has been on the market since November. Really wish the weather would perk up so the market would heat up a bit.


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## Jason Svoboda

Tanner just got the call from Indiana State... he got the Presidential Scholarship!


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## BudDawgII

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner just got the call from Indiana State... he got the Presidential Scholarship!



Congrats Tanner & family!  That is a very nice honor and certainly helps out the ole pocketbook!


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## Sackalot

This is just amazingly good news for Tanner and for your family brother!  CONGRATS to Tanner and to you and Jada!  

Really proud day to be a Sycamore!


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## Daveinth

Fantastic . Congrats to him and mom and dad as well.


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## bluestreak

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner just got the call from Indiana State... he got the Presidential Scholarship!



Congrats to all the 'Bodas


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Chief_Quabachi

Great news.....extremely happy for the entire family.


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## Syc70

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner just got the call from Indiana State... he got the Presidential Scholarship!



Congratulations to Tanner and Jason, too.  You will love being at Tree.


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## Sycamore Proud

This is great news for Tanner and his family. Let me be among the first to say it--Tanner Smith is one more reason I'm proud to be a Tree!


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## Bluethunder

Congratulations!  A future Forest member!


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## SycamoreLynch

I think I can find room in the Forest for one more Tree.  Welcome to the family Tanner!! We will be in touch soon!


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## Eleven

Jason Svoboda said:


> Tanner just got the call from Indiana State... he got the Presidential Scholarship!



Outstanding.  I'm sure that is a relief in more ways than one!  Congratulations to Tanner - He is obviously a smart, articulate and involved leader for him to be recognized in this way.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Congrats to your son Jason!! What a great accomplishment. Hopefully he doesn't do anything you didn't do in college...


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## The Chop

I think not only should SycamoreLynch  place a heavy recruitment of Tanner for the Forest, but maybe groom him in leadership and what it takes to run it after he graduates .


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## Jason Svoboda

Thanks to everyone with the congratulations and well wishes. I honestly have never seen Tanner so excited... ever. 

Just got in from Terre Haute as we took him down to interview for getting into the Networks Institute. Man, that is one damn impressive group of kids. I hope Tanner can get into that as well and I'm SUPREMELY jealous that it didn't start until several years after I had graduated. Some of you guys will get a kick out of this comments, but there was a mother there that has done like 30 college visits with her son and said "this campus feels like a private school... very similar to Butler."


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## Jason Svoboda

Man, it has been a banner week for Tanner. He just got off the phone with Dr. McLaren. He was accepted into the Networks Financial Institute. Only 8-12 people are selected each year to participate. He is SUPER STOKED to be selected for this one!

http://www.indstate.edu/business/NFI/


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## Bluethunder

Congrats to him!  So glad to hear everything is turning out so well for him and his hard work is being rewarded!


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