# [February 6, 2016] Indiana State (13-10) at Bradley (3-21)



## Jason Svoboda

vs. 






*Indiana State Sycamores (13-10) vs. Bradley Braves (3-21)
*​*
Carver Arena - Peoria, IL​Saturday, February 6, 2016
8:00 PM EST Tip​*


----------



## TreeTop

We have no excuse for not finishing the league at least tied for second.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Quabachi said:


> We have no excuse for not finishing the league at least tied for second.



You must not have read the posts that proclaimed how bad our coaches and players are?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> You must not have read the posts that proclaimed how bad our coaches and players are?



LOL! So true. 

Either way lets just let the games play out and see how we end up. We still have some really tough games left on our schedule I don't think any expectations are really fair. We play 2 teams that we have already been beat by (SIU & WSU) and play respectable IL State and UNI teams on the road. It is not out of the equation that we lose all 4 of those games.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> LOL! So true.
> 
> Either way lets just let the games play out and see how we end up. We still have some really tough games left on our schedule I don't think any expectations are really fair. We play 2 teams that we have already been beat by (SIU & WSU) and play respectable IL State and UNI teams on the road. It is not out of the equation that we lose all 4 of those games.


True... the road doesn't get any easier.


----------



## BrokerZ

I'm usually a very positive guy, especially with ISU basketball.  I try and keep things in perspective and look at the bright side in all ways possible.

Buuuuuut...if we lose this game I will be calling the Hulman Center demanding my money back on my Arch Madness ticket order.  There will be zero excuses or logical reasons for us losing this game.  I don't care if it's on the road, blah blah blah.  We are better than Bradley and need to show it with a win.  No moral victories are possible here - only a tangible win will do.

Get it done!


----------



## sycamorebacker

BrokerZ said:


> I'm usually a very positive guy, especially with ISU basketball.  I try and keep things in perspective and look at the bright side in all ways possible.
> 
> Buuuuuut...if we lose this game I will be calling the Hulman Center demanding my money back on my Arch Madness ticket order.  There will be zero excuses or logical reasons for us losing this game.  I don't care if it's on the road, blah blah blah.  We are better than Bradley and need to show it with a win.  No moral victories are possible here - only a tangible win will do.
> 
> Get it done!



This game is the least of my worries.  I think you can relax.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

BrokerZ said:


> I'm usually a very positive guy, especially with ISU basketball.  I try and keep things in perspective and look at the bright side in all ways possible.
> 
> Buuuuuut...if we lose this game I will be calling the Hulman Center demanding my money back on my Arch Madness ticket order.  There will be zero excuses or logical reasons for us losing this game.  I don't care if it's on the road, blah blah blah.  We are better than Bradley and need to show it with a win.  No moral victories are possible here - only a tangible win will do.
> 
> Get it done!


Very Well Stated. Get it done !!!
Turn your scorers loose and make your defenders defend. We have 2 of the Conference's top scorers in Brown and Scott. And probably THE top defender in Smith, along with one of the Conference's top rebounder in Clemons. 

It's a very simple formula. Give the ball to Scott and Brown on the offensive end. Make your role players play their roles. Lockdown on defense and get the victory.


----------



## sycamorebacker

The last time I checked, Murph was #2 in the MVC in OR and Clemons is #3 in DR.


----------



## BlueSycamore

Both games left with Bradley, this Saturday and Sycamore Senior Night in three weeks. A loss in either of the two games would be INEXCUSABLE. 
Taking a look at the Braves:  3 Wins - 21 Losses ......they opened the season at home and beat Ball State 54-53, then lost 9 in a row. Won at home vs Maryville ? 61-53, then lost 6 in a row.  WON ON THE ROAD AT LOYOLA ! 54-53, and now on another 6 game losing streak.  It will be difficult to get up for this team BUT show up flat and could lose either or both games?


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

sycamorebacker said:


> The last time I checked, Murph was #2 in the MVC in OR and Clemons is #3 in DR.


Clemons is #3 in total rebs. Murphy is #3 in offensive rebs. Either way, 6 in one hand or half a dozen in the other. [emoji1] [emoji111]


----------



## treeman

lose this game and we will be in the talk for a Thursday night appearance. That isn't gonna happen though, Sycs win this one comfortably by 15+.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

treeman said:


> lose this game and we will be in the talk for a Thursday night appearance. That isn't gonna happen though, Sycs win this one comfortably by 15+.


Wow Treeman, can I write that in ink ??


----------



## pbutler218

Who on Bradley are we going to make an all-American in this game? We've been pretty good at that lately it seems!!


----------



## treeman

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> Wow Treeman, can I write that in ink ??



I'm feeling good that our trees will perform in Peoria


----------



## sycamorebacker

If being tied for 2nd and looking at an easy V doesn't provide incentive, I don't know what does.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

This is a game that the dogs should be turned loose, and the team _encouraged _to put a 30 point beatdown on them.  None of this "don't run the score up" crap.  We need to come out and pound them into the sand, and then pound then into the sand some more.

We need to do this for our team's mental state - to prove that we can.  No disrespect to Bradley, Lord knows we've been in their shoes.  But we need to show that we can _*dominate *_someone.  And I mean dominate!  And this is our best chance to do it.

This team needs a "No More Mr. Nice Guy" attitude.  We're too nice.  We need to become a little nasty.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

IndyTreeFan said:


> This is a game that the dogs should be turned loose, and the team _encouraged _to put a 30 point beatdown on them.  None of this "don't run the score up" crap.  We need to come out and pound them into the sand, and then pound then into the sand some more.
> 
> We need to do this for our team's mental state - to prove that we can.  No disrespect to Bradley, Lord knows we've been in their shoes.  But we need to show that we can _*dominate *_someone.  And I mean dominate!  And this is our best chance to do it.
> 
> This team needs a "No More Mr. Nice Guy" attitude.  We're too nice.  We need to become a little nasty.


My sentiments exactly !!!! This is a statement game.


----------



## BankShot

IndyTreeFan said:


> This is a game that the dogs should be turned loose, and the team _encouraged _to put a 30 point beatdown on them.  None of this "don't run the score up" crap.  We need to come out and pound them into the sand, and then pound then into the sand some more.
> 
> We need to do this for our team's mental state - to prove that we can.  No disrespect to Bradley, Lord knows we've been in their shoes.  But we need to show that we can _*dominate *_someone.  And I mean dominate!  And this is our best chance to do it.
> 
> This team needs a "No More Mr. Nice Guy" attitude.  We're too nice.  *We need to become a little nasty*.



ITF's going off the "mercy" end of sport on this one!:sos: A "no hostages" mentality...


----------



## Westbadenboy

Guys --- TWO things almost insure either an ISU defeat or another of our played awful, but somehow pull it out at the end "wins" (which many of you will proclaim "a win is a W and that's all that matters" -- not the way winning programs like WSU look at things) ----------the TWO things:

1) Lansing goes on JMV's radio program 

            OR

2) Comment after comment on this site about how we're going to finally "Blow these guys out" because we're soooooo much better than them.

Anyone else notice these correlations ? ? ?


----------



## nwi stater

Well I hope we win, this is one of the few road games I plan to attend. It's about 3 hours from Valpo. This is about the same distance to beautiful Terre Haute.


----------



## BankShot

Bradley was 3-15 in the MVC last season (9-24 overall), and we won by 6 pts. in Peoria. Sure, they're loaded w/ freshman THIS season...but how often have you seen ISU play LIKE freshman THIS season? 

1. *Callum Barker (6'9" 245 Fr.)* should be an interesting match up for Murphy w/ both posting similar #'s this season;

2,* Luke van Bree (6'9" 208 Fr.*) hails from the Netherlands, so we could see him matched w/ our Dutchman. Bree is scoring 8.3 ppg w/ 4.3 reb.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BankShot said:


> Bradley was 3-15 in the MVC last season (9-24 overall), and we won by 6 pts. in Peoria. Sure, they're loaded w/ freshman THIS season...but how often have you seen ISU play LIKE freshman THIS season?
> 
> 1. *Callum Barker (6'9" 245 Fr.)* should be an interesting match up for Murphy w/ both posting similar #'s this season;
> 
> 2,* Luke van Bree (6'9" 208 Fr.*) hails from the Netherlands, so we could see him matched w/ our Dutchman. Bree is scoring 8.3 ppg w/ 4.3 reb.



Have seen them 7-8 times on the year now. Barker doesn't do much for me. van Bree on the other hand, is going to be a damn good Valley player before all is said and done. The guy that sticks out every time I watch them is Dwayne Lautier-Ogunleye. He is very athletic and attacks. Donte Thomas appears to be their "go to" guy when they need a shot. 

We should sweep them this year but going forward they will likely be a very solid squad once the new head coach gets his system in and these kids get more experience under their belt.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

*Basketball Gameday Central: Sycamores Continue Valley Campaign At Bradley Saturday Ni*






The Indiana State Sycamores continue Missouri Valley Conference play on Saturday, February 6 as they travel to Bradley for the team's first meeting with the Braves this season. The game is set for a 8:00 p.m. (ET) tip-off and can be heard locally on 95.9 FM The Duke as well as online via a link on GoSycamores.com. This game will be broadcast world-wide on The Valley On ESPN3. The Sycamores are 13-10 on the season and are in a four-way second place tie alongside Evansville, Southern Illinois and Illinois State in the MVC standings with a 7-4 record. Devonte Brown and Brenton Scott have each reached double figures scoring in all 11 MVC contests. Bradley is 3-21, 1-10 MVC and are led by Donte Thomas and his 8.6 ppg average.

Read more at GoSycamores...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bradley fans have taken notice to how bad we've played since the Evansville game.

http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26032


----------



## BallyPie

pbutler218 said:


> Who on Bradley are we going to make an all-American in this game? We've been pretty good at that lately it seems!!



Yeah...feels like one of those games where we win....but somebody will come off the bench for them and have a career game.....


----------



## Sycamore Proud

BallyPie said:


> Yeah...feels like one of those games where we win....but somebody will come off the bench for them and have a career game.....



At this point in the season, with this team the only important thing about this game, other than finishing injury free, is the W.  Taking a loss could be devastating when you look at the remaining games.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Sycamores are favored by 11.5 today.


----------



## BlueSycamore

Jason Svoboda said:


> Sycamores are favored by 11.5 today.



Oh sh**..........looking more like a trap game for sure......"play to the level of our opponents" is a long-time Sycamore thing. Don't like this at all.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Almost game time... wonder which squad we're gonna get tonight?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Wearing the powder blue unis and Murph wins the tip. 

Let's go boys!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

C'mon Khristian... what was that?


----------



## Gotta Hav

We start out the game in a Zone Defense?  Lansing is playing Zone?  WTF?  When the hell has that ever happened?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 16 timeout.

Bradley 7, Sycamores 6.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Jason Svoboda said:


> Under 16 timeout.
> 
> Bradley 7, Sycamores 6.



35 more THANKS, and you will have given 1,000 THANKS!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Both teams just trading shots.

Tied at 14.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

When Burnett comes in I leave to get a beer.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 12 timeout.

Sycamores 16, Braves 14.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> When Burnett comes in I leave to get a beer.



LMAO.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

This lineup = BLECH!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Announcer just said... He will shoot but he doesn't make it too often. That aint the beer talking either.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> This lineup = BLECH!



And this one.

No defenders and no offense. What in the fuck?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

We have established the fact that we like to shoot and miss 3 pointers.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 8 media timeout.

Tied at 18.


----------



## Southgrad07

This is disgusting


----------



## ISUCC

we're making Bradley look like an NCAA team and MVC champs, but really, I hope noone is surprised by this.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Did Scott piss someone off? 

5 points on 2 for 2 shooting and has been sitting in favor of Prusator? Wut?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Brown is a brutal decision maker


----------



## Gotta Hav

Why-in-the-world is Prusator in the game?

We don't see him for games on end, and he's in this game, in the first half. 

That makes no sense.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Did Scott piss someone off?
> 
> 5 points on 2 for 2 shooting and has been sitting in favor of Prusator? Wut?



Has 2 fouls... OMG Not 2 fouls


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Has 2 fouls... OMG Not 2 fouls



Bradley's live stats only has him with 1.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Gotta Hav said:


> Why-in-the-world is Prusator in the game?
> 
> We don't see him for games on end, and he's in this game, in the first half.
> 
> That makes no sense.



He's got fresh legs.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Brown smh dribble dribble mid range missed jumper what else is new. Guy has too much freedom.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 4 timeout.

Braves 25, Sycamores 21. 

Coaches taking a solid loss in this first half.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Bradley's live stats only has him with 1.



Nope has 2. 

1 offensive and another blocking foul on back-to-back pos.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Nope has 2.
> 
> 1 offensive and another blocking foul on back-to-back pos.



Nevermind.

Their "live" stats are like 5 minutes behind.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Bradley's live stats only has him with 1.



Me 1 Bradley Box Score 0


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> Nevermind.
> 
> Their "live" stats are like 5 minutes behind.



Golden said Bradley's computer crashed.  No more live stats.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I believe it is beer time again.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bradley 29, Sycamores 21. 

Timeout ISU. 2:01 left in the half.

We look like a Atlantic Sun team.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Brown is a brutal decision maker



Retweet


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Don't look at me... What do I know.


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Brown smh dribble dribble mid range missed jumper what else is new. Guy has too much freedom.



He's only top ten in the nation in turnovers....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bradley up by 10 at the half.

33-23 Braves. 

Team should be flat out embarrassed.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

But hey, we do more with less!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> He's only top ten in the nation in turnovers....



And career leader. Yet Lansing gives him a free pass. Un freaking acceptable.


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Don't look at me... What do I know.



Add your sidekick "mentor,' Bluebill! :lol:


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> But hey, we do more with less!



Been sitting on that one, haven't you?


----------



## BankShot

Jason Svoboda said:


> Bradley 29, Sycamores 21.
> 
> Timeout ISU. 2:01 left in the half.
> 
> We look like a Atlantic Sun team.



Shit...try Heartland!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Been sitting on that one, haven't you?



Haha He couldn't hardly stand it... 

Wait for it.

Wait for it.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BankShot said:


> Add your sidekick "mentor,' Bluebill! :lol:



That guy secretly loves me - I know it!


----------



## BankShot

Jason Svoboda said:


> Been sitting on that one, haven't you?



ITF's a sly dawg...encyclopedia of ISU marketing!


----------



## meistro

I was so close to driving over for this game, thank goodness I didn't. Some of these combinations we had on the floor were dreadful. Granted nobody is shooting well but why on Gods green earth would you have Brown, Clemons and Paige on the court at the same time?


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> That guy secretly loves me - I know it!



Hell ya, between the two of ya, you're making fishing in Otter Creek extinct! The only "pure" running water body in Vigo...you catch all the good fish, and Bluebill empties his septic in it!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

meistro said:


> I was so close to driving over for this game, thank goodness I didn't. Some of these combinations we had on the floor were dreadful. Granted nobody is shooting well but why on Gods green earth would you have Brown, Clemons and Paige on the court at the same time?



Both Smith and Scott have 2 fouls.

It is what it is. Goes to show how little depth we have behind them.


----------



## Chief_Quabachi

Gudino's substitution sucks ti high Heaven. He started subbing only minutes into the game. Several times there wasn't a capable offensive player on the court. Any rhythm present early was completely destroyed. Hell, one time Lansing looked at Gudino as he was confused. SAD, sad, sad.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Pick one of the following.

Lansing substitution patterns are driven by:
1.	Asks OUIJA Board
2.	Flip-of-a-coin…Heads on 2 out of 3
3.	How the wind blows
4.	Reading the opposing coach tics…kinda like Texas Hold’em 
5.	Who's parents are in the stands
6.	LSD
7.	Doing sumpin’ trumps doin’ nuttin’
8.	Thumbs Lucky Rabbit Foot in pocket
9.	Cheerleader Routines
10.	Rocks, Paper, Scissors


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

6


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Nice start. 

Gonna guess they got a nice "pep" talk at the half.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Scott's FTs can pull it within 2.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Why sub? We're on a run.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Nevermind. Murphy is sucking air over there.

Scott split them. 37-34.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Khristian... TAKE THE SHOT!

Under 16 timeout. 37-34.


----------



## Gotta Hav

Jason Svoboda said:


> Why sub? We're on a run.



Rocks, Paper, Scissors.....


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Khristian... TAKE THE SHOT!
> 
> Under 16 timeout. 37-34.



Brutal decision making tonight by Smith and Brown. Both continue to make stupid ass turnovers.


----------



## ISUCC

we're blowing a huge chance here, Loyola is up 13 on SIU nearing midway of the 2nd half too, at SIU


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Brutal decision making tonight by Smith and Brown. Both continue to make stupid ass turnovers.



Thankfully Devonte has been better in the second half but both make way too many mistakes for being seniors.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

KS1's FTs bring it back to 4.

40-36.


----------



## BrokerZ

I've purposely stayed away from this game thread due to the current state of the game, but I have to ask...Does anyone else think the Bradley play-by-play guy sounds like Kermit the Frog?


----------



## BlueSycamore

BlueSycamore said:


> Oh sh**..........looking more like a trap game for sure......"play to the level of our opponents" is a long-time Sycamore thing. Don't like this at all.



AND I REPEAT.....................


----------



## BlueSycamore

Why not foul a 3-Pt shooter......what the heck


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> I've purposely stayed away from this game thread due to the current state of the game, but I have to ask...Does anyone else think the Bradley play-by-play guy sounds like Kermit the Frog?



A little. Big time dorks for sure.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Clemons... what the hell was that? You don't post feed only to go to the key and turn it over in the lane? 

Yeah, good call.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 12. 

43-38 Bradley.


----------



## Southgrad07

Niels with a terrific stint there :bash:


----------



## meistro

This team invents new ways to turn the ball over. This is the 4th game in a row that we haven't been ready to play and when you're not ready to play you let bad teams get confidence. This is brutal.


----------



## BrokerZ

I don't know...I still feel like we pull away and win this game. Maybe I'm giving us too much credit.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

BrokerZ said:


> I don't know...I still feel like we pull away and win this game. Maybe I'm giving us too much credit.



Pull away?  Pull away?  Seriously?  You have to get the lead to pull away...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Back up to 9.


----------



## BrokerZ

IndyTreeFan said:


> Pull away?  Pull away?  Seriously?  You have to get the lead to pull away...



To be fair, we were only down 3 when I posted that. 

And, yes. Seriously.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

BrokerZ said:


> To be fair, we were only down 3 when I posted that.
> 
> And, yes. Seriously.



Sorry.  I didn't see it until we were down 9.  

One team will pull away.  Just not sure it's gonna be us...


----------



## BlueSycamore

We are dominating  this 3-21 team aren't we..........what a gd joke. Can in Interim AD fire the Coach?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 8 timeout.

47-43 Braves.


----------



## Gotta Hav

BrokerZ said:


> I don't know...I still feel like we pull away and win this game. *Maybe I'm giving us too much credit*.



No argument here...


----------



## BrokerZ

I still think we win this. Just a weird game so far.  It's just us beating ourselves, not Bradley beating us. I have to think we find the right combination to clean this up before the end. 

My bigger concern: this team is going to get trucked in St. Louis just like last year.


----------



## BallyPie

I'm really have a bad feeling about this.....feels like the Eastern Ill game.....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> My bigger concern: this team is going to get trucked in St. Louis just like last year.



Our schedule the rest of the way is not pretty. I don't know what happened to our team defense, but it has to be in the same box with our shooting that got put away after the Evansville game.


----------



## BrokerZ

Buncha negative nellies around here. They can't all be beautiful. Well, most haven't been beautiful.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Nice job Clemons. Tips it to himself and then puts it back in. Down 2.

Now we just got the ball and ISU calls a timeout.

47-45.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Buncha negative nellies around here. They can't all be beautiful. Well, most haven't been beautiful.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


>



Love it


----------



## Jason Svoboda

The Bradley gargoyle is just creepy.


----------



## BrokerZ

Loyola looking strong against SIU. An SIU loss would be very helpful.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

A 3 Devonte? C'mon man.

Go to the rim. That's where ALL of your points have come from.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> The Bradley gargoyle is just creepy.



Takes pride in giving kids nightmares.


----------



## jturner38

Our IQ is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

KS1 splits a pair. 47-46 Bradley.

But we get lucky on the miss and keep the ball. 6:19 left.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Nice shot Matt.

Tied up at 49.


----------



## BrokerZ

Lansing needs to lose the 3 button suit jackets. This ain't the 90's man.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Nice D there Devonte! 

Shot clock violation!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

We've been beaten on this slip screen every. fucking. time. it. has. been. ran. 

At what point are our guys going to clue the fuck in?


----------



## Southgrad07

This one is on coaching..they have abused niels time and time again on that slip


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 4 media timeout.

Bradley 52, Sycamores 49.


----------



## Southgrad07

Jason Svoboda said:


> We've been beaten on this slip screen every. fucking. time. it. has. been. ran.
> 
> At what point are our guys going to clue the fuck in?



And almost every time it has been 12 trying to guard Thomas...it's not rocket science


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> We've been beaten on this slip screen every. fucking. time. it. has. been. ran.
> 
> At what point are our guys going to clue the fuck in?



This + every damn time.


----------



## meistro

jturner38 said:


> Our IQ is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.



That is a huge problem with this team. We have way too many guys with unbelievably low basketball iq's


----------



## Jason Svoboda

KS1 splits another pair. 

52-50 Bradley.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

CLEMONS! 

You big dog you!

Huge OR and put back. 

Tied up at 52.


----------



## BallyPie

did we actually go zone on that last Bradley possession?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BallyPie said:


> did we actually go zone on that last Bradley possession?



We've been playing quite a bit of it and it hasn't been working.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Refs putting the freeze on KS1.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Refs putting the freeze on KS1.



Splits them. Tied at 55.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

That was NOT a foul. Weaaaaak.


----------



## Southgrad07

God our 4s so bad defensively


----------



## BrokerZ

Welp, things aren't looking so good here fellas.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

That's the ball game folks. 

Terrible loss. I think we can end the nonsense about finishing top 3 or 4. 

If we continue to play like this, we're going to lose the next 5 by a ton.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

A disgrace.  Top to bottom disgrace.


----------



## BrokerZ

I really have no words.


----------



## BallyPie

Yep.....we seem to always find a way to make bad teams look good......


----------



## bluebill

The best team won.


----------



## BlueSycamore

BlueSycamore said:


> AND I REPEAT.....................



AND I REPEAT AGAIN.............
it would have been a shame if the Sycamores had won that game. What a sorry sorry sorry excuse for a team. Opening night in St. Louis coming soon and one and done.  Baseball opens in two weeks.


----------



## ISUCC

don't see how we avoid Thursday in St Louis, we are entering our annual "February collapse" period once again, as we have seen time and time again. Noone on here should be surprised honestly. I'm not. Not even mad really, kinda thought we'd lose this game anyway. It's just who we are sadly.


----------



## Southgrad07

Anyone want to sugarcoat this one? Naw didn't think so...hopefully we can avoid Thursday


----------



## eagletree

Total embarrassment. This game was lost in the first half with a horrible job of substituting players. We have players that should NEVER see the floor. Why sit a player with two fouls when your team needs help? Again it did not pay off. Let's save them for the second half............ Too late........ Our last two away losses will cost us dearly. We had the opportunity to be in second place alone. Now with our upcoming schedule- staying out of a play in game will be the focus.


----------



## pbutler218

I don't know why anyone should be surprised. It's the same issues every game. The coaches don't have these guys mentally ready to play from the start.


----------



## sycamore tuff

I'm glad I only caught the last minute of the game.  I'll listen to the assistant coach on the radio.  I wouldn't think Lansing would come on after this.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BrokerZ said:


> My bigger concern: this team is going to get trucked in St. Louis just like last year.



Trucker Clock Who Wants It...


----------



## bent20

No excuse losing to a 3-21 team. None.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Lansing a no-show


----------



## meistro

This is what makes being an isu basketball fan so frustrating and why there are so few of us. We make ourselves sick watching our team play like shit and getting beat by a terrible team. And coach Lansing, please don't ever say again that we have good fans, just not enough of them. This is why there aren't enough of them. So coach, next time you wonder why we don't have more fans, just look in the mirror because you're as big of a reason as any when you continually don't have your team ready to play, especially against a crap team.


----------



## Chief_Quabachi

Out coached.....out played. ...out hustled.....out recruited......speaking of out coached, who the Hell is the Sycamores coach anyway, Lansing or Gudino?....there freshmen better than our veteran upper classmen. Sorry ass effort......


----------



## sycamore tuff

Lou says if the starters can't  do their jobs then he will substitute quicker.


----------



## BallyPie

Greg Lansing speech will sound like the broken record we always hear:

"I take full responsibility....we didn't respect our opponent.....we need to do better as a coaching staff.....I need to do better......things are going to change"


----------



## The Chop

okay, no more predicting wins.You don't win games on paper. You have to show up and PLAY the game for 40 MINUTES. Play under control. Take care of the frigging ball. PLAY WITH SOME URGENCY !!!!!!!! What an ugly, disappointing loss to a poor team. What's that say about us ?Please, don't come on here and tell everyone how superior we are to this team or that team and should have an easy time of it. Not with this team, nothing is easy.  Sorry for the venting


----------



## eagletree

Up 18-14 and made horrible substitutions. We never recovered....................


----------



## BankShot

sycamore tuff said:


> Lou says if the starters can't  do their jobs then he will substitute quicker.



He wearing 'em out now w/ 1 1/2 min stretches of play...:hot:

Does anyone know of any other HC in Div I ball that let's his Asst dictate substitutions?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

At least David Timlin won the prestigious indoor Meyo Mile at Notre Dame in 4 flat. Beating 2 kids from IU, one from Michigan and Georgia Tech (in the top 5) and many others...


----------



## The Chop

Quick, change the locker room code to  5954. then a note that says  "To a 3 and 18 team"


----------



## sycamore tuff

Chief_Quabachi said:


> Out coached.....out played. ...out hustled.....out recruited......speaking of out coached, who the Hell is the Sycamores coach anyway, *Lansing or Gudino*?....there freshmen better than our veteran upper classmen. Sorry ass effort......



My guess is Lansing leaves once they find a new AD and Gudino takes over.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

The Chop said:


> Quick, change the locker room code to  5954. then a note that says  "To a 3 and 18 team"



Hahah! ^^


----------



## swsycamore

I agree.  You left out those hideous powder blue uniforms.  Who decides to wear these?


----------



## eagletree

I think he has already left.


----------



## skdent1414

This one is on the seniors. The all-talk and no walk seniors. Interview after interview talking about championship this, and our only goal is the NCAA tournament. "We have to win one for coach". Tournament teams don't lose to Bradley. Experienced teams don't lose to Bradley. Hope have you a nice awkward ride back to the Haute boys.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Well, a lot of you can put blame on the coach if you want.  I never blame a coach for a loss.  I think it's juvenile.  The team should have won the game and it's nobody's fault but their own.

The way they played, we appeared to have NO talent on the floor tonight.


----------



## BankShot

sycamore tuff said:


> Lou says if the starters can't  do their jobs then he will substitute quicker.



That's one helluva motivator, given our deep bench!

Tonight's bench production:

http://stats.statbroadcast.com/broadcast/?a=1&id=104266


----------



## sycamorebacker

sycamore tuff said:


> Lou says if the starters can't  do their jobs then he will substitute quicker.



So?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Scott was BRUTAL in the second half truth be told. 

But show me that box score. I counted 7 turnovers from Brown. I want to see what they credited him with. 

Lansing didn't say a word... Not a word.


----------



## jturner38

We lost to BRADLEY. This officially ruined the season for me. I just can't watch another game right now. We are most likely to get spanked first game in St. Louis again just like last year. I need to talk about something to get my mind of this game. Thinking about our lineup next season.
Clemons/Barnes
Scott/Prusator
Van Sycoc/Knight
Kessinger/Niels
Bell/Murphy/Rickman


----------



## meistro

sycamorebacker said:


> Well, a lot of you can put blame on the coach if you want.  I never blame a coach for a loss.  I think it's juvenile.  The team should have won the game and it's nobody's fault but their own.
> 
> The way they played, we appeared to have NO talent on the floor tonight.


Well, the players definitely deserve a lot of the blame. But, at the end of the day the coach recruits the players, decides who plays and comes up with the game plan and this is coming from a guy who has been a Lansing fan since he took over. He needs to do better.


----------



## bigsportsfan

sycamorebacker said:


> This game is the least of my worries.  I think you can relax.



Great call.


----------



## TH_Sycamore12

Watched the last 10 minutes of this game (wish I hadn't) & the thing that jumped out to me was Bradley's freshman making their free throws. I guess when you're 3-21 there's no pressure no matter what.


----------



## ISUCC

jturner38 said:


> We lost to BRADLEY. This officially ruined the season for me. I just can't watch another game right now. We are most likely to get spanked first game in St. Louis again just like last year. I need to talk about something to get my mind of this game. Thinking about our lineup next season.
> Clemons/Barnes
> Scott/Prusator
> Van Sycoc/Knight
> Kessinger/Niels
> Bell/Murphy/Rickman



we could discuss our 2016-2017 schedule?

*Home*

Butler
Western Kentucky
Eastern Illinois (if the series continues)

*Away*

Valparaiso
IUPUI (assuming the series continues)
Utah State
Ball State
_Orlando Classic with the following teams (3 games)_ 
Gonzaga
Florida 
Miami (FL)
Iowa State
Stanford
Seton Hall
Quinnipiac


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Scott was BRUTAL in the second half truth be told.
> 
> But show me that box score. I counted 7 turnovers from Brown. I want to see what they credited him with.
> 
> Lansing didn't say a word... Not a word.



No wonder...

http://stats.statbroadcast.com/broadcast/?a=1&id=104266


----------



## sycamorebacker

meistro said:


> Well, the players definitely deserve a lot of the blame. But, at the end of the day the coach recruits the players, decides who plays and comes up with the game plan and this is coming from a guy who has been a Lansing fan since he took over. He needs to do better.



Can a coach motivate a player?  I think some coaches do, but i don't think it's their responsibility.  I thought they just looked sick tonight.  I've never seen so many butterfingers and bad decisions.  I don't blame Coach for that at all.  Go ahead and put some blame on him.  I'm sure he could have done better.  But don't overlook the REAL problem, and that's the players' heads.


----------



## bigsportsfan

sycamorebacker said:


> Can a coach motivate a player?  I think some coaches do, but i don't think it's their responsibility.  I thought they just looked sick tonight.  I've never seen so many butterfingers and bad decisions.  I don't blame Coach for that at all.  Go ahead and put some blame on him.  I'm sure he could have done better.  But don't overlook the REAL problem, and that's the players' heads.



He recruited them.


----------



## sycamorebacker

BankShot said:


> No wonder...
> 
> http://stats.statbroadcast.com/broadcast/?a=1&id=104266



We did a lot wrong, but we shouldn't have let them shoot 47%.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> At least David Timlin won the prestigious indoor Meyo Mile at Notre Dame in 4 flat. Beating 2 kids from IU, one from Michigan and Georgia Tech (in the top 5) and many others...



Best news I've heard all day.


----------



## The Chop

State had 15 TO's and Bradley scored 26 pts off them. TAKE CARE OF THE DAMN BALL AND PLAY SOME DEFENSE.


----------



## sycamorebacker

The Chop said:


> State had 15 TO's and Bradley scored 26 pts off them. TAKE CARE OF THE DAMN BALL AND PLAY SOME DEFENSE.



It sure looked a lot worse than 15.  Of course, points off TO's is a meaningless stat unless it leads to fast breaks, and that's a separate stat.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

*Bradley Holds On For Victory Over Indiana State*






Indiana State used a pair of second half rallies to force four ties down the stretch and had a good look at a fifth with 10 seconds remaining but it was Bradley that held on for a 63-58 victory over the visiting Sycamores in front of 6,028 fans inside Carver Arena.

Read more at GoSycamores...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> We did a lot wrong, but we shouldn't have let them shoot 47%.



They probably got 10-12 points off the slip screen. High percentage shots and got and ones on several of them.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> They probably got 10-12 points off the slip screen. High percentage shots and got and ones on several of them.



I only watched part of the game.  Were those when our 5 was slow to help out?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Sycamore Proud said:


> Best news I've heard all day.



Yes I'm taking space in this thread to post whatever I want. I was subject to wasting my time watching that game so I can waste time doing whatever the hell I want now... My logic. 

I mean more people should take time to appreciate it but they don't really get track I guess. Time for you to take a minute to enjoy success. 

Best part was in a post race interview. They asked him, "how does it feel to get a win against some quality D1 competition?"

He responded with, "I am a quality D1 Athlete!" LMAO! If we had more atheltes with his attitude at every level we'd be in good shape. He proceeded to tweet this:






He don't care - them runners don't care, even drops the "power 5" on them. Don't ask stupid questions... The interview is here http://www.flotrack.org/video/91557...mself-with-meyo-mile-victory-just-misses-sub4


----------



## BlueSycamore

pbutler218 said:


> I don't know why anyone should be surprised. It's the same issues every game. The coaches don't have these guys mentally ready to play from the start.



One of if not the dumbest basketball IQ team the Sycamores have ever had.  Constantly foul 3-pt shooters, let guys shooting less than 25% from 3-Pt range continue to shoot them, refuse to bench seniors playing poorly etc. etc. etc.  What a lousy team!


----------



## BallyPie

sycamorebacker said:


> Can a coach motivate a player?  I think some coaches do, but i don't think it's their responsibility.  I thought they just looked sick tonight.  I've never seen so many butterfingers and bad decisions.  I don't blame Coach for that at all.  Go ahead and put some blame on him.  I'm sure he could have done better.  But don't overlook the REAL problem, and that's the players' heads.



"Don't think it's their responsibility"?.......seriously???.....these are the games where coaches earn their pay.....any coach in this league can get his players up for playing WS.......but it's games like this...where you are dealing with a bunch of 18 to 20 year olds who are looking at a 3-21 team and thinking all they have to do is throw there jerseys on the court to win this......this is where the coach needs to motivate, motivate, motivate......Lou Holtz probably would have made Bradley out to be 1986 Boston Celtics.......

I bet if Lansing told each guy on his team that he'd give them $1 million dollars if they won this game......do you think they would have won??....I think so.....point is.......he's got to do a better job of getting his team motivated when playing bad teams......we've seen this far too many times during the Lansing era  .


----------



## sycamorebacker

BallyPie said:


> "Don't think it's their responsibility"?.......seriously???.....these are the games where coaches earn their pay.....any coach in this league can get his players up for playing WS.......but it's games like this...where you are dealing with a bunch of 18 to 20 year olds who are looking at a 3-21 team and thinking all they have to do is throw there jerseys on the court to win this......this is where the coach needs to motivate, motivate, motivate......Lou Holtz probably would have made Bradley out to be 1986 Boston Celtics.......
> 
> I bet if Lansing told each guy on his team that he'd give them $1 million dollars if they won this game......do you think they would have won??....I think so.....point is.......he's got to do a better job of getting his team motivated when playing bad teams......we've seen this far too many times during the Lansing era  .



I guess we just disagree.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

They had 3 wins coming in, and announced attendance greater than 6,000.  We have 3 home games left, and I doubt if 6,000 ISU fans show up in total.  That doesn't include the opponents fans or the people who show us just to watch the Shockers.  This is not t knock on our fans--just what I honestly expect.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> I only watched part of the game.  Were those when our 5 was slow to help out?



Pretty much. It was usually against Niels/MVS and if it wasn't, either of those guys or Murphy were late to get there. Not sure why, but Rickman played very little tonight. I think they could have just left him at the rim and told him to alter shots.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Pretty much. It was usually against Niels/MVS and if it wasn't, either of those guys or Murphy were late to get there. Not sure why, but Rickman played very little tonight. I think they could have just left him at the rim and told him to alter shots.



I watched MVS closely for a while.  I think he's a "marginal" mid-major player.  We are definitely weak and/or inexperienced at both the 4 and 5; and our 3 is not much of an offensive threat.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Right now I can think of nothing more embarrassing for our seniors than being swept by Bradley on senior night.  I hope they are up to the challenge; I really do.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Can I see a box score please!! Burnett could have checked into the game 4 times between the end of the game and now! Just post the box score... I want to go to bed.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

All Ive heard past 3 years is his going to CBI, NIT was going to help the program, about as embarrassing loss as you can have. Is this shit ever going to stop!?


----------



## BallyPie

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Can I see a box score please!! Burnett could have checked into the game 4 times between the end of the game and now! Just post the box score... I want to go to bed.



:smile:


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreinTexas said:


> All Ive heard past 3 years is his going to CBI, NIT was going to help the program, about as embarrassing loss as you can have. Is this shit ever going to stop!?



The CBI fans on this forum will not go away - they love the CBI. I can't blame them at this point. The CBI is starting to sound good to me at this point and I hate that shit.


----------



## BallyPie

Well....it's like I tell my buddies....under the Lansing era, the Trees have the ability to beat anybody....and lose to anybody in the league.....on a given night.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I can go to bed now... I figured the box score would be wrong. Brown gets credited with 4 turnovers. He had 4 each half.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The CBI fans on this forum will not go away - they love the CBI. I can't blame them at this point. The CBI is starting to sound good to me at this point and I hate that shit.


----------



## BallyPie

Rickman showing no minutes in the box score......was he hurt or sick??


----------



## SycamoreSage

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Scott was BRUTAL in the second half truth be told.
> 
> But show me that box score. I counted 7 turnovers from Brown. I want to see what they credited him with.
> 
> Lansing didn't say a word... Not a word.



On several occasions I have counted Brown's turnovers and they are almost always more than the official box score. sometimes by a large margin.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreSage said:


> On several occasions I have counted Brown's turnovers and they are almost always more than the official box score. sometimes by a large margin.



Yes me too, thank you. Which is why I stayed up and waited for it. I couldn't sleep without knowing. They missed it by atleast 3.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreinTexas said:


> All Ive heard past 3 years is his going to CBI, NIT was going to help the program, about as embarrassing loss as you can have. Is this shit ever going to stop!?



You are quick as shit to come here after a loss but you're nowhere to be found after a win. Have you ever done anything for your alma mater? Or are you to busy rooting for your other two Division 1 favorites?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> I watched MVS closely for a while.  I think he's a "marginal" mid-major player.  We are definitely weak and/or inexperienced at both the 4 and 5; and our 3 is not much of an offensive threat.



Unfortunately, I think we have quite a few marginal mid-major players on our roster right now and that is why the team is so wildly inconsistent.


----------



## SycamoreSage

Gotta Hav said:


> Why-in-the-world is Prusator in the game?
> 
> We don't see him for games on end, and he's in this game, in the first half.
> 
> That makes no sense.



Should have left Prusator in; it would cut down on turnovers. Scott and Prusator in the back court would be acceptable to me.

Where was Rickman tonight?
,


----------



## Jackson0330

We need a new coach, coaching staff, etc.  This was a total embarrassment.  Inexcusable doesn't even describe this train wreak.  I've been a season ticket holder for the last ten years, but enough is enough.  I'll not be attending anymore games until they get rid of this joke of a coach.


----------



## skdent1414

For what it's worth, this losing to inferior opponents has been going on for quite some time. I did a little research and found out that even our good teams have had this very exact problem. The 00-01' sycamores that lost to Gonzaga in second round of tourney laid a similar egg on the same weekend in history. February 7, 2001 we lost to a Northern Iowa team with only 3 division 1 wins at the time. Although I don't think this group has what it takes to turn things around. 

I absolutely hate when we have Page and Clemons on the floor at the same time. The ball skips around the perimeter and dies in the open corner because neither will take the shot. We aren't going to win many games when we play guys that cannot score the basketball..cough....Burnett. 

I had nightmares and couldn't sleep after watching that game as you can tell by the 4:05 am post. The question I have for all of you is why didn't we see this coming? And if you did, why didn't you walk out of the day rich from taking Bradley in the +12.5 point spread?


----------



## Syc70

skdent1414 said:


> For what it's worth, this losing to inferior opponents has been going on for quite some time. I did a little research and found out that even our good teams have had this very exact problem. The 00-01' sycamores that lost to Gonzaga in second round of tourney laid a similar egg on the same weekend in history. February 7, 2001 we lost to a Northern Iowa team with only 3 division 1 wins at the time. Although I don't think this group has what it takes to turn things around.
> 
> I absolutely hate when we have Page and Clemons on the floor at the same time. The ball skips around the perimeter and dies in the open corner because neither will take the shot. We aren't going to win many games when we play guys that cannot score the basketball..cough....Burnett.
> 
> I had nightmares and couldn't sleep after watching that game as you can tell by the 4:05 am post. The question I have for all of you is why didn't we see this coming? And if you did, why didn't you walk out of the day rich from taking Bradley in the +12.5 point spread?



I feel your pain. I had open heart surgery on wed & I think my recovery was set back considerably watching that game.


----------



## skdent1414

Syc70 said:


> I feel your pain. I had open heart surgery on wed & I think my recovery was set back considerably watching that game.



Get well sir! You might lay off watching much more sycamore action during your rehab. They can do more harm to the ticker than good.


----------



## Jackson0330

This is the straw that broke Lansing's back.  This clown and his sorry excuse for a coaching staff are going to get smoked by Hensen and SIU.  This joke of a coach rode the Coattails of what we call a fluke run in the 2011 MVC Tournament.  He's buyout is 1 million and what's even more discerning is I'm sure good ol' Angie Po will give him his much undeserved raise at the end of the year.  From the top to the very bottom this team is a circus.  Lansing hasn't done a damn thing, but beat Creighton at home since.  I'm a season ticket holder and I'll not be renewing or going until they send this Bum on his way.  Besides, it's telling when your A.D. Is your wife.  That's a Bozo-No-No ethically.  What an embarrassment!  It's funny.  Even if This sorry excuse for a coach loses out he'll not get fired. Why?  Because his freakin' wife would have to do it.  Their going to get smoked the rest of the season.  Hey Lansing!  Congrats! Another season ticket holder bits the dust!  You, your staff, and the players that don't respect you are the laughing stock of the MVC.  No heart, no guts=No glory!


----------



## Gotta Hav

SycamoreSage said:


> *Should have left Prusator in*; it would cut down on turnovers. Scott and Prusator in the back court would be acceptable to me.
> 
> *Where was Rickman tonight?*
> ,



On the leaving Prusator in....who can argue against that?  He couldn't have done worse, than any of the other Guards that we had in there.

And where was Rickman?   Is that like a trick question, like Where Is Waldo?   

I kept saying the same thing the whole game...and one time the camera panned in on Rickman on-the-bench...with no-sweats on...and he just had that sad frustrating look of "put me in coach, I'm ready to play!"   I wouldn't be surprised, if he transfers.....If I was him, I would.

And as someone else said, Lansing team can beat the likes of Vanderbilt, Miami, Notre Dame, etc. but he can't beat the dregs.


----------



## Gotta Hav

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Can I see a box score please!! Burnett could have checked into the game 4 times between the end of the game and now! Just post the box score... I want to go to bed.



The substitution pattern OUIJA Board, must have had some draw-up-play Chalk on it.


----------



## Gotta Hav

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> He don't care - them runners don't care, even drops the "power 5" on them. Don't ask stupid questions... The interview is here http://www.flotrack.org/video/91557...mself-with-meyo-mile-victory-just-misses-sub4



More thread stealing...everyone go watch the interview, it's not very long.  

Timlin is in a Sportsman, a Class Act, and a Gentleman in this interview!!!


----------



## BankShot

Jackson0330 said:


> This is the straw that broke Lansing's back.  This clown and his sorry excuse for a coaching staff are going to get smoked by Hensen and SIU.  This joke of a coach rode the Coattails of what we call a fluke run in the 2011 MVC Tournament.  He's buyout is 1 million and what's even more discerning is I'm sure good ol' Angie Po will give him his much undeserved raise at the end of the year.  From the top to the very bottom this team is a circus.  Lansing hasn't done a damn thing, but beat Creighton at home since.  I'm a season ticket holder and I'll not be renewing or going until they send this Bum on his way.  Besides, it's telling when your A.D. Is your wife.  That's a Bozo-No-No ethically.  What an embarrassment!  It's funny.  Even if This sorry excuse for a coach loses out he'll not get fired. Why?  Because his freakin' wife would have to do it.  Their going to get smoked the rest of the season.  Hey Lansing!  Congrats! Another season ticket holder bits the dust!  You, your staff, and the players that don't respect you are the laughing stock of the MVC.  No heart, no guts=No glory!



Welcome to the family, Jackson! Not sure if 'Backer, Bluebill, SSOM & others will agree w/ EVERYTHING you said, but they usually just provide the charcoal for the grill and force others to strike the match. :wacko:


----------



## BankShot

skdent1414 said:


> For what it's worth, this losing to inferior opponents has been going on for quite some time. I did a little research and found out that even our good teams have had this very exact problem. The 00-01' sycamores that lost to Gonzaga in second round of tourney laid a similar egg on the same weekend in history. February 7, 2001 we lost to a Northern Iowa team with only 3 division 1 wins at the time. Although I don't think this group has what it takes to turn things around.
> 
> I absolutely hate when we have Page and Clemons on the floor at the same time. The ball skips around the perimeter and dies in the open corner because neither will take the shot. We aren't going to win many games when we play guys that cannot score the basketball..cough....Burnett.
> 
> I had nightmares and couldn't sleep after watching that game as you can tell by the 4:05 am post. The question I have for all of you is why didn't we see this coming? And if you did, why didn't you walk out of the day rich from taking Bradley in the +12.5 point spread?



Look at our bench productivity and how many of these players should even be playing Division I ball? And yes, Lansing brought 'em into the ISU fold. The really sad aspect of this that EVERY year, the "honor guard" resurfaces to rebuild Lansing 's coaching reputation, citing "rumors" of being lured away from ISU by a major hoop power! :bash: Does anyone ACTUALLY think that things are gonna be different next year?


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The CBI fans on this forum will not go away - they love the CBI. I can't blame them at this point. The CBI is starting to sound good to me at this point and I hate that shit.



It's almost like fishing in Sugar Creek below the Riley Lock & Dam #47...:lol:


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Bank, you're right I don't agree and here are the reasons I don't. Here are the reasons over the last several seasons we end up getting disappointed/embarrassed as Sycamore fans. 

1. We were not that good in the first place.

1a. Sorry MVC fans, the Valley aint been that good in the first place. 

So we climb the Valley standing ladder by picking up some decent wins and watching the rest of the conference beat up on eachother. Then we don't show up on any given night, we get embarrassed and people go why does this keep happening?!?! Because our conference standing and record has lead us to believe we were something we were not. In past seasons I don't think our team has been as good as our record has shown. I both credit and fault Lansing for this. I credit him because he's done more with less. I fault him because he has some guys on this roster that are not D1 caliber athletes. 

I'm just not inclined to blame Lansing the second something goes wrong because I think he's a good coach. He does some stuff that really bothers me though and we've talked about it at length but honestly who the hell am I? He gets paid to make the tough decisions, not me.

For instance last night I thought the best defense anyone has played all conference season was played last night on Brenton Scott. By LANSING himself. He single-handedly took Scott out of the game. I think the comments he's made in the paper about "not mattering what he says to Brenton" is bull shit. The kid is a Sophomore and is going to make some mistakes at times. 

- In the first half he gets two fouls and he quickly takes him out. Let him ride it out, you're playing Bradley its a perfect time for him to learn to play with foul trouble.

- In the second half he chucks an ill advised 3 and Lansing yanks him and sits him for several minutes. When he came back in he was a mess. Couldn't handle the ball - no flow - no decision making. Meanwhile I saw that same sort of thing from a 5th year SR and Lansing just let it happen. 

So although I don't blame Lansing or think he should be fired or say I'm not buying season tickets again yadda yadda I don't think he is without fault and he would tell you as much. 

I will leave you with this last thought on this subject - if Lansing aint the guy then who you going to bring in for the type of money we can offer a head coach?! I think we get great value for our $$ with Lansing. 

I said a lot but That is all I'm going to say on that particular topic because I think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having.


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> ...ridiculous conversation.



Must be a number of "ridiculous" fans posting on this loss and drawing parallels w/ Lansing's ISU HC career. Someone previously mentioned "inexcusable losses" going back to 2001. Does anyone realize WHO was coach THEN and any ties to the current ISU HC situation? 
Ever hear, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it?"


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BankShot said:


> Must be a number of "ridiculous" fans posting on this loss and drawing parallels w/ Lansing's ISU HC career.



You said that not me...


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind




----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Bank, you're right I don't agree and here are the reasons I don't. Here are the reasons over the last several seasons we end up getting disappointed/embarrassed as Sycamore fans.
> 
> 1. We were not that good in the first place.
> 
> 1a. Sorry MVC fans, the Valley aint been that good in the first place.
> 
> So we climb the Valley standing ladder by picking up some decent wins and watching the rest of the conference beat up on eachother. Then we don't show up on any given night, we get embarrassed and people go why does this keep happening?!?! Because our conference standing and record has lead us to believe we were something we were not. In past seasons I don't think our team has been as good as our record has shown. I both credit and fault Lansing for this. I credit him because he's done more with less. I fault him because he has some guys on this roster that are not D1 caliber athletes.
> 
> I'm just not inclined to blame Lansing the second something goes wrong because I think he's a good coach. He does some stuff that really bothers me though and we've talked about it at length but honestly who the hell am I? He gets paid to make the tough decisions, not me.
> 
> For instance last night I thought the best defense anyone has played all conference season was played last night on Brenton Scott. By LANSING himself. He single-handedly took Scott out of the game. I think the comments he's made in the paper about "not mattering what he says to Brenton" is bull shit. The kid is a Sophomore and is going to make some mistakes at times.
> 
> - In the first half he gets two fouls and he quickly takes him out. Let him ride it out, you're playing Bradley its a perfect time for him to learn to play with foul trouble.
> 
> - In the second half he chucks an ill advised 3 and Lansing yanks him and sits him for several minutes. When he came back in he was a mess. Couldn't handle the ball - no flow - no decision making. Meanwhile I saw that same sort of thing from a 5th year SR and Lansing just let it happen.
> 
> So although I don't blame Lansing or think he should be fired or say I'm not buying season tickets again yadda yadda I don't think he is without fault and he would tell you as much.
> 
> I will leave you with this last thought on this subject - if Lansing aint the guy then who you going to bring in for the type of money we can offer a head coach?! I think we get great value for our $$ with Lansing.
> 
> *I said a lot but That is all I'm going to say on that particular topic because I think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having*.[/QUOTE
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Takes MORE THAN ONE PERSON to have dialogue/conversation...and there's surely more than one person posting on this Bradley loss.


----------



## Gotta Hav

I have an Appointment at 1:00 this afternoon with a Publix Grocery Store Manager in Seminole, Florida.

We're going to size my head with a proper fitting Brown Paper Grocery Bag, for the MVC Basketball Tournament.

In advance of the fitting, I filled him in him on what at the MVC Tournament last year with Loyola, and he said he 'oh boy, you better be prepared"  and said that he would furnish me for FREE....All the Brown Paper Grocery Bags that I could possibly fill in a checked bag up to 50 lbs worth.

So if anyone needs a hook up for the MVC Tournament, since I've already paid for Hotel and Airline Tickets....I will have lotsa Brown Paper Bags to share with fellow ISU fans.   Just PM me on here, and I'll HOOK-YOU-UP.

P.S.  You will have to cut your own holes in the bags, for eye and mouth openings.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jackson0330 said:


> We need a new coach, coaching staff, etc.  This was a total embarrassment.  Inexcusable doesn't even describe this train wreak.  I've been a season ticket holder for the last ten years, but enough is enough.  I'll not be attending anymore games until they get rid of this joke of a coach.



Pretty easy to hide behind a computer and say these things with 2 posts, does it make you feel better?


----------



## BallyPie

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Bank, you're right I don't agree and here are the reasons I don't. Here are the reasons over the last several seasons we end up getting disappointed/embarrassed as Sycamore fans.
> 
> 1. We were not that good in the first place.
> 
> 1a. Sorry MVC fans, the Valley aint been that good in the first place.
> 
> So we climb the Valley standing ladder by picking up some decent wins and watching the rest of the conference beat up on eachother. Then we don't show up on any given night, we get embarrassed and people go why does this keep happening?!?! Because our conference standing and record has lead us to believe we were something we were not. In past seasons I don't think our team has been as good as our record has shown. I both credit and fault Lansing for this. I credit him because he's done more with less. I fault him because he has some guys on this roster that are not D1 caliber athletes.
> 
> I'm just not inclined to blame Lansing the second something goes wrong because I think he's a good coach. He does some stuff that really bothers me though and we've talked about it at length but honestly who the hell am I? He gets paid to make the tough decisions, not me.
> 
> For instance last night I thought the best defense anyone has played all conference season was played last night on Brenton Scott. By LANSING himself. He single-handedly took Scott out of the game. I think the comments he's made in the paper about "not mattering what he says to Brenton" is bull shit. The kid is a Sophomore and is going to make some mistakes at times.
> 
> - In the first half he gets two fouls and he quickly takes him out. Let him ride it out, you're playing Bradley its a perfect time for him to learn to play with foul trouble.
> 
> - In the second half he chucks an ill advised 3 and Lansing yanks him and sits him for several minutes. When he came back in he was a mess. Couldn't handle the ball - no flow - no decision making. Meanwhile I saw that same sort of thing from a 5th year SR and Lansing just let it happen.
> 
> So although I don't blame Lansing or think he should be fired or say I'm not buying season tickets again yadda yadda I don't think he is without fault and he would tell you as much.
> 
> I will leave you with this last thought on this subject - if Lansing aint the guy then who you going to bring in for the type of money we can offer a head coach?! I think we get great value for our $$ with Lansing.
> 
> I said a lot but That is all I'm going to say on that particular topic because I think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having.



I don't think this team will ever get to the next level until we get more scoring from our 4 and 5 guys......6-8 points a game just isn't going to get it done.   Here's a question.......when is the last time we had a player who was listed as a center that averaged more than 8 points a game??.....


----------



## treeman

What the hell is going on. Wasnt able to watch the game or follow it due to important obligations. But I get up this morning and read how Lansing wont be back next year, Rickman should transfer, a season ticket holder isnt renewing his tickets, etc. Was it really that bad or are people just letting their emotions get to them?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BallyPie said:


> I don't think this team will ever get to the next level until we get more scoring from our 4 and 5 guys......6-8 points a game just isn't going to get it done.   Here's a question.......when is the last time we had a player who was listed as a center that averaged more than 8 points a game??.....



Though it would be nice to have scoring from the 5 hole I am not sure it necessary to have scoring at the 5 spot to win basketball games in the Valley. One thing is for sure, we lack depth! As a whole our defense suffers greatly with any one of Murphy, Niels, MVS or Burnet on the floor - each of those guys is slow, the don't play good D off the ball screen, they are not athletic and all of them are prone to being beat and trying to make up for it by fouling at the rim. 

In 8 of our last 10 games Matt Van Scyoc has had at least 4 fouls in the game. He has had at least 4 fouls in 12 of our 23 games. He has fouled out of 2 of our last 3 games. Not only has he been putting people to the line he has been fouling people on and 1's more than any other player I can ever remember. He is ALWAYS out of position on help side and I don't think it is because he doesn't have a grasp for it - I think he is just slow to get into position. He should also never put the ball on the floor on the offensive side because he is slow with the ball and easy to defend. 

I think guys like Brown and Scott get exposed when the players around them don't help carry the load. Those guys start trying to do too much and when they do they struggle. They start dribbling into 3 defenders and they turn the ball over. Bradley sped us up last night and we never fed the post - we never really moved the basketball.


----------



## meistro

SycamoreStateofMind said:


>



The interesting thing is, he says a lot of the same things we do when criticizing this team. I appreciate him taking the blame but I want to see him make the changes necessary to keep this from happening over and over. Better players, better substitution patterns, whatever, it's on him.


----------



## Southgrad07

Hey I think Thomas just scored again on a slip screen....


----------



## Gotta Hav

treeman said:


> What the hell is going on. Wasnt able to watch the game or follow it due to important obligations. But I get up this morning and read how Lansing wont be back next year, Rickman should transfer, a season ticket holder isnt renewing his tickets, etc. Was it really that bad or are people just letting their emotions get to them?



Losing to a team with 3 wins the whole season, and 21 losses playing Freshmen....are you serious?  

Was it that bad....:hypnotized:

Quit drinking that Bottled Water from Flint, MI it's effecting your sentiments.


----------



## meistro

There's a lot of blame to go around but right at the top of my list is MVS. He can't defend, he can't take the ball to the basket, he doesn't rebound much and he is wildly inconsistent with the 3 ball. I'm not saying never play him, I'm just saying we're relying on him too much and he's not delivering.


----------



## Gotta Hav

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Pretty easy to hide behind a computer and say these things with 2 posts, does it make you feel better?



Didn't MORGAN hmmmmm hide behind a computer, and say like 6,733 things, before he came out and felt better about himself?   

Don't be so quick to jump-on-your-high-horse.

Yours truly, Curt Hagerman of Fort Wayne and N. Redington Beach, FL


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Gotta Hav said:


> Didn't MORGAN hmmmmm hide behind a computer, and say like 6,733 things, before he came out and felt better about himself?
> 
> Don't be so quick to jump-on-your-high-horse.
> 
> Yours truly, Curt Hagerman of Fort Wayne and N. Redington Beach, FL



Well Jason could probably go all the way back to December 2008 and look - but I'd guess my first 2 posts were not FIRE so and so. I can't promise though, it is possible... We all have to grow up sometime don't we Curt. I've tried to be a better person over the years.


----------



## Southgrad07

meistro said:


> The interesting thing is, he says a lot of the same things we do when criticizing this team. I appreciate him taking the blame but I want to see him make the changes necessary to keep this from happening over and over. Better players, better substitution patterns, whatever, it's on him.



I don't know that substitutions are the problem. I mean niels and Burnett were worse that mvs on defense and that's saying something. Paige had 2 turnovers and gave us nothing . prusator clunked his only 3 and isn't capable of doing much else...only ? I had was why no Rickman. He has had his ups and downs this year and might of been just as bad as the rest last night, but why not give him some run and see what happens?

I think the blame falls to him for recruiting some these guys and definitely on him for not getting the team ready for games like last night. He's a good coach, but there is no arguing that his teams have a tendency to play to their competition far too often.


----------



## Gotta Hav

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I've tried to be a better person over the years.



Yes, we all have.....enjoy the rest of your day!!!  Go Manning!!!


----------



## Southgrad07

meistro said:


> There's a lot of blame to go around but right at the top of my list is MVS. He can't defend, he can't take the ball to the basket, he doesn't rebound much and he is wildly inconsistent with the 3 ball. I'm not saying never play him, I'm just saying we're relying on him too much and he's not delivering.



I agree..I just don't know where else to go (see prior post). Right now he's Justin Gant only 2 inches shorter and more of a liability on defense.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Gotta Hav said:


> Yes, we all have.....enjoy the rest of your day!!!  Go Manning!!!



Thanks you too! Yes, go Manning!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> I agree..I just don't know where else to go



I know where I am going... 



TO CHURCH!


----------



## meistro

The substitution "patterns" are what bother me. Starting a player and taking him out at the 17 minute mark. Having different standards for different players and having some crazy lineups out there that make us easy to guard. Lack of overall talent may be causing most of this.


----------



## Hooper

Jackson0330 said:


> We need a new coach, coaching staff, etc.  This was a total embarrassment.  Inexcusable doesn't even describe this train wreak.  I've been a season ticket holder for the last ten years, but enough is enough.  I'll not be attending anymore games until they get rid of this joke of a coach.



What more do you want out of the guy considering the pittance (in D-1 coaching terms) we pay him. He's gone to the post season, or been invited to the post season, every year.  Winning record every year save one.  Do you remember Royce's last 5 years?  Dillard? Green? Locke?  We have had "train wreck" coaches and seasons since I've been a fan, but neither Lansing nor his era is one of them.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Bank, you're right I don't agree and here are the reasons I don't. Here are the reasons over the last several seasons we end up getting disappointed/embarrassed as Sycamore fans.
> 
> 1. We were not that good in the first place.
> 
> 1a. Sorry MVC fans, the Valley aint been that good in the first place.
> 
> So we climb the Valley standing ladder by picking up some decent wins and watching the rest of the conference beat up on eachother. Then we don't show up on any given night, we get embarrassed and people go why does this keep happening?!?! Because our conference standing and record has lead us to believe we were something we were not. In past seasons I don't think our team has been as good as our record has shown. I both credit and fault Lansing for this. I credit him because he's done more with less. I fault him because he has some guys on this roster that are not D1 caliber athletes.
> 
> I'm just not inclined to blame Lansing the second something goes wrong because I think he's a good coach. He does some stuff that really bothers me though and we've talked about it at length but honestly who the hell am I? He gets paid to make the tough decisions, not me.
> 
> For instance last night I thought the best defense anyone has played all conference season was played last night on Brenton Scott. By LANSING himself. He single-handedly took Scott out of the game. I think the comments he's made in the paper about "not mattering what he says to Brenton" is bull shit. The kid is a Sophomore and is going to make some mistakes at times.
> 
> - In the first half he gets two fouls and he quickly takes him out. Let him ride it out, you're playing Bradley its a perfect time for him to learn to play with foul trouble.
> 
> - In the second half he chucks an ill advised 3 and Lansing yanks him and sits him for several minutes. When he came back in he was a mess. Couldn't handle the ball - no flow - no decision making. Meanwhile I saw that same sort of thing from a 5th year SR and Lansing just let it happen.
> 
> So although I don't blame Lansing or think he should be fired or say I'm not buying season tickets again yadda yadda I don't think he is without fault and he would tell you as much.
> 
> I will leave you with this last thought on this subject - if Lansing aint the guy then who you going to bring in for the type of money we can offer a head coach?! I think we get great value for our $$ with Lansing.
> 
> I said a lot but That is all I'm going to say on that particular topic because I think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having.



*^This is a really good post*.  I can agree with almost everything you say.  But to play the devil's advocate here, if what you're saying is true, and I believe it mostly is, then _at best,_ our program is stuck in neutral.  There are obvious deficiencies that have never been addressed or have gotten steadily worse over the past 5 or 6 years.  What can, or should, ISU do to address these?  Consistent mediocrity will destroy a fan base just like consistent losing will.  Should ISU, and it's (dwindling) fan base just accept what is, or should changes be made to try to put the program on an upward trajectory?  I'm seriously just asking what you guys think.  I don't have any of the answers, but I'd like to hear the discussion.


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

I guess it's time for me to chime in.

O.M.G. - This game should be a wake up call for all concerned.

 We are not out of the hunt as of yet, however, we have some deficiencies that need to be addressed. (to say the least) But in my honest opinion, life in Sycamore Nation will be the better for taking this one on the chin. If we STOP pointing fingers and make the necessary adjustments.

I believe we'll be alright, these are what I call the growing pains of conference. All teams have to go through them. 
 Having said that, #CantCryOverSpilledMilk  It's time for each individual player and the team as a whole to do some soul searching. THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT !!!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreSage said:


> Should have left Prusator in; it would cut down on turnovers. Scott and Prusator in the back court would be acceptable to me.
> 
> Where was Rickman tonight?
> ,



I disagree on Prusator. Even with fresh legs, he cannot stay in front of many guards. Sure he doesn't turn the ball over on offense but there is a reason for that. When he is on the floor, he is never handling the ball and usually shoots the minute he gets it. The problem with Grant, who I think is a great kid, is his defense. Key in on that next time he is on the floor. Guys just run right by him.

As for Rickman, I've said it before and I'll say it again. He has 5 fouls, let the kid use them all! If we wanted to stay in that zone we could have just left him at the rim and let him clobber anyone that makes it past on those slip screens. Their 5 Barker showed he was no threat to shoot last night as every time he touched the ball, he tried to get rid of it.


----------



## bluebill

I really got in your head haven't I.  Lonesome in here...! Bank


----------



## Westbadenboy

Do NOT want to see Greg fired -- he has done a pretty good job given our resources.  But he has had better talent -- much better talent than those past coaches.  But we do seem to have many more of these "no way we should lose to these guys" kinds of games the past few years.  Most teams have a game like that every year.  We have many ..............every year.  We should have about 5 more wins this year (and 5 fewer losses).
Probably about 18 - 6 at this point.  Plug the above principle into the past 5- 6 years and there would be huge change in perception of ISU basketball.  
And getting into the post-season ..............nice but overrated these days.
And by the way -- would be nice to win a game in postseason every so often.

:frown:


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

Jason Svoboda said:


> You are quick as shit to come here after a loss but you're nowhere to be found after a win. Have you ever done anything for your alma mater? Or are you to busy rooting for your other two Division 1 favorites?



It must suck knowing you've donated all this money for a program that doesn't give two shits about you! You are so fucking delusional Jason. You give give give all this money and what return on investment do you get? A team that loses to a 3-21 team??? Keep sending in your money for a shitty product. I'm done with this stupid fucking website where a majority of you Jack offs accept mediocrity! Enjoy losing dipshits! Peace out


----------



## meistro

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> I guess it's time for me to chime in.
> 
> O.M.G. - This game should be a wake up call for all concerned.
> 
> We are not out of the hunt as of yet, however, we have some deficiencies that need to be addressed. (to say the least) But in my honest opinion, life in Sycamore Nation will be the better for taking this one on the chin. If we STOP pointing fingers and make the necessary adjustments.
> 
> I believe we'll be alright, these are what I call the growing pains of conference. All teams have to go through them.
> Having said that, #CantCryOverSpilledMilk  It's time for each individual player and the team as a whole to do some soul searching. THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT !!!



I love your optimism but we've had what seems to be several wake up calls this year and last night still happened.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Hey, the season isn't over.  We were never going to get an at-large bid anyway.  There's still time for a great end to the season.  Everyone show up Wednesday, I hear the National Anthem is going to be killer at that game!!!


----------



## Southgrad07

IndyTreeFan said:


> Hey, the season isn't over.  We were never going to get an at-large bid anyway.  There's still time for a great end to the season.  Everyone show up Wednesday, I hear the National Anthem is going to be killer at that game!!!



Everything you said is correct...however, I understand the anger because this game and really the last stretch of games is proof that this team like so many other Lansing squads is getting worse not better in February.

We all knew after the non con we would have to win the Lou to get a bid. The only way we could do that is to improve each and every week in the valley.. After a typically great start to the conference season we have started to regress and I think that is where a lot of the frustration is coming from.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Southgrad07 said:


> Everything you said is correct...however, I understand the anger because this game and really the last stretch of games is proof that this team like so many other Lansing squads is getting worse not better in February.
> 
> We all knew after the non con we would have to win the Lou to get a bid. The only way we could do that is to improve each and every week in the valley.. After a typically great start to the conference season we have started to regress and I think that is where a lot of the frustration is coming from.



You're right.  I'm just trying a positive spin for a change.  It's a bit of a departure for me...opcorn:


----------



## Elder Tracy D. Smith

meistro said:


> I love your optimism but we've had what seems to be several wake up calls this year and last night still happened.


TRUE STATEMENT !! [emoji106]  

However, there's still a lot of season left to be played and we supporters must continue to support. What example our we teaching our young men ?? When times get tough, to turn tail and run. Or do we teach them; " When the going gets tough, the tough get going" ?
I personally, don't think it's time to abandon the ship.

In times of adversity, is where and when our true colors should show. How can we expect our team to right the ship, if its support system hangs them out to dry. The game isn't over until the last whistle blows, and the season isn't over until the last game is played.

Therefore, I'm going to continue to ride with (MY) Sycamores until the wheels fall off. And if the wheels fall off, I'll ride with them on the rims alone.

Sycamore Nation STAND UP !!![emoji56]


----------



## meistro

Elder Tracy D. Smith said:


> TRUE STATEMENT !! [emoji106]
> 
> However, there's still a lot of season left to be played and we supporters must continue to support. What example our we teaching our young men ?? When times get tough, to turn tail and run. Or do we teach them; " When the going gets tough, the tough get going" ?
> I personally, don't think it's time to abandon the ship.
> 
> In times of adversity, is where and when our true colors should show. How can we expect our team to right the ship, if its support system hangs them out to dry. The game isn't over until the last whistle blows, and the season isn't over until the last game is played.
> 
> Therefore, I'm going to continue to ride with (MY) Sycamores until the wheels fall off. And if the wheels fall off, I'll ride with them on the rims alone.
> 
> Sycamore Nation STAND UP !!![emoji56]



I will be there as usual Wednesday night and despite my disgust with last nights game, I'm expecting a win.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> *^This is a really good post*.  I can agree with almost everything you say.  But to play the devil's advocate here, if what you're saying is true, and I believe it mostly is, then _at best,_ our program is stuck in neutral.  There are obvious deficiencies that have never been addressed or have gotten steadily worse over the past 5 or 6 years.  What can, or should, ISU do to address these?  Consistent mediocrity will destroy a fan base just like consistent losing will.  Should ISU, and it's (dwindling) fan base just accept what is, or should changes be made to try to put the program on an upward trajectory?  I'm seriously just asking what you guys think.  I don't have any of the answers, but I'd like to hear the discussion.



To answer your question, a lot of different moving parts - everything needs to work together and it doesn't always happen at Indiana State. My point being, perhaps it's not just a basketball issue - perhaps this stuck in neutral effect is being driven by something else? 

It's like anything in life, you get out of it what you put into it. From a fundraising standpoint we need to do better. The fact that Jason and members of this forum (and readers) have to pool resources by donating to the program to help them buy iPads is a really nice thing - but it is also ridiculous that it has to come to that. We need to invest in our program, our athletes and our facilities. 

I think that the key lies in the youth and current students - developing lifelong fans. Once you get people to invest time, be that coming to multiple/all games or by other means then you have the potential to have someone who will invest more than time in the future. They might make a donation, purchase season tickets, come back for homecoming, travel to the nearest away game, post on Sycamore Pride etc. I don't think Indiana State does a very good job of developing lifelong Sycamore fans. In fact, they find ways to burn bridges with many alums - it is however a two way street, a little give and take is needed. 

We could talk X's and O's and pin it down to being strictly a basketball issue but I don't think that necessarily gets to the heart of the issue. I don't think the coaches/players get a free pass either! From this perspective what type of kids/athletes are we recruiting? Do we have the ability to pick and choose from kids who will fit into our system and our style of play? Or do we have to just go out and get the best available kids that we can get? I don't have answers to a lot of these recruiting type of questions. The answer maybe lies somewhere in between - it would seem right now we are missing some important pieces from a talent perspective to execute what Lansing is trying to get out of these kids. If they make the same mistakes over and over then maybe it should have occurred to someone that they were the wrong kids for the job... Whoever "they" are, not pointing fingers as I've already done that. 

That is really all that I can add. I think you've summarized it quite well - we do seem to be stuck in the middle. We aint a bad program, we put ourselves in a position season after season to realize some success. But we don't seem to quite be able to get the job done!


----------



## Sycamore Proud

We are, or claim to be, Sycamore fans.  What do fans do?  Well, you know they do some wild and illogical things.  They criticize and reprimand coaches and players--sometimes justified, some not.  Fans can say and do some totally uncalled for things.  And fans can give unending support to their team. That is, indeed, hard to do after games like we had al Loyola and Bradley (you can add EIU and IUPUI).  Fans can blow off steam and then come back and support their team.

Most of you, like me, will be there or listening/watching Wednesday night and loudly and proudly supporting our Sycamores.  We can't change the past--hopefully we can support a brighter future.  Nobody is saying it will be easy for this team to do.  But as true fans, that is what we must do.  

*It is time that we, as fans, support this team as never before.  And it is time for this team to show such support is justified.*

Vent your frustration and anger here.  Then remember why you are a fan and adjust your frame of mind.  By Wednesday, you need to be in attendance, if you can, and show these guys that we still love Indiana State and want to win ball games.


----------



## Southgrad07

Very rational and intelligent conversation from a fan base that just lost to a 3-21 team, well done sycamore nation......oh and Thomas just scored again on a slip screen


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> To answer your question, a lot of different moving parts - everything needs to work together and it doesn't always happen at Indiana State. My point being, perhaps it's not just a basketball issue - perhaps this stuck in neutral effect is being driven by something else?
> 
> It's like anything in life, you get out of it what you put into it. From a fundraising standpoint we need to do better. The fact that Jason and members of this forum (and readers) have to pool resources by donating to the program to help them buy iPads is a really nice thing - but it is also ridiculous that it has to come to that. We need to invest in our program, our athletes and our facilities.
> 
> I think that the key lies in the youth and current students - developing lifelong fans. Once you get people to invest time, be that coming to multiple/all games or by other means then you have the potential to have someone who will invest more than time in the future. They might make a donation, purchase season tickets, come back for homecoming, travel to the nearest away game, post on Sycamore Pride etc. I don't think Indiana State does a very good job of developing lifelong Sycamore fans. In fact, they find ways to burn bridges with many alums - it is however a two way street, a little give and take is needed.
> 
> We could talk X's and O's and pin it down to being strictly a basketball issue but I don't think that necessarily gets to the heart of the issue. I don't think the coaches/players get a free pass either! From this perspective what type of kids/athletes are we recruiting? Do we have the ability to pick and choose from kids who will fit into our system and our style of play? Or do we have to just go out and get the best available kids that we can get? I don't have answers to a lot of these recruiting type of questions. The answer maybe lies somewhere in between - it would seem right now we are missing some important pieces from a talent perspective to execute what Lansing is trying to get out of these kids. If they make the same mistakes over and over then maybe it should have occurred to someone that they were the wrong kids for the job... Whoever "they" are, not pointing fingers as I've already done that.
> 
> That is really all that I can add. I think you've summarized it quite well - we do seem to be stuck in the middle. We aint a bad program, we put ourselves in a position season after season to realize some success. But we don't seem to quite be able to get the job done!



Excellent.  You bring up another good point - institutional issues.  I really don't believe that Hodges, Schellhase, Greene (well, maybe Greene), Locke, Dillard, Waltman and McKenna were all bad coaches.  There were road blocks placed in front of them by the institution that were impossible to overcome - budget restraints, scholarship limitations, geographical limitations, time and space restraints.  Most of these have been removed by the school, so other than fringe "benefits" like iPads, what are we missing?  We should pay our coaches more, but should we pay them more before they take the next step?  I was all in when Benjy wanted the university to buy a 727 for the pro pilot program - I thought our athletic teams could get a lot of use from that while giving our student pilots great jet experience - and it would have been a recruiting bonus.  But alas, it never happened.

We have a new arena on the horizon.  Whatever obstacles exist had better get fixed, or we're going to have teams playing in a beautiful, state of the art arena with 800 people in it.  The Board of Trustees, the president, the new AD had all better get behind making a decision on just what do we want to be, an OVC program that no one cares about, or an MVC program that judges success by championships?  Because if they don't do this, the HC project is just going to be a really expensive convention center.  And if they claim to want championships, they'd better figure out how to pay for it, and how to create a championship culture.

I really feel that a new AD might be coming along at just the right time.  A little shaking of the branches might be a good thing!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreinTexas said:


> It must suck knowing you've donated all this money for a program that doesn't give two shits about you! You are so fucking delusional Jason. You give give give all this money and what return on investment do you get? A team that loses to a 3-21 team??? Keep sending in your money for a shitty product. I'm done with this stupid fucking website where a majority of you Jack offs accept mediocrity! Enjoy losing dipshits! Peace out



At least I've tried to make a difference. Maybe you should give it a shot?


----------



## Chief_Quabachi

I'm still pissed about last nights loss and the one thing that still has me upset is the substitution philosophy that has plagued this team all year. It has destroyed balance, rhythm, cohesiveness, etc.. Too many times there have been 3-4 players on the court that simply are not an offensive threat whatsoever and for periods too long. Is this substituting philosophy suppose to be a punishment for making a T.O.?? I can understand it after several T.O.'s by the same player, but other wise............

Khristian Smith addressed that he needs to do a much better job of being the team leader and he is 100% correct. Get vocal KS1, slap some guys on the ass and tell them to get with it, animated and vocal encouragement, rah-rah-rah stuff.

Lansing has delegated too much to Gudino during the game and that reverts back to my original rant.....substitutions. There are a couple of guys getting some playing time that should only see the court when the game is basically over, time or score wise. Sorry, that's just the way it is with most teams from high school to college and even the pros. 

Remember "The Magnificent 7" of the 79' team. That team employed basically 7 players rotating in and out. The two off the bench were Bob Heaton and Leroy Staley.......this was basically it for the majority of every game. 

Rant over.....I'm simply frustrated and allowing that emotion to color my loyalty as a Sycamore back to my freshman year, 1962. Time is running out for me to see a couple of MVC champioships and some NCAA appearances.........GO SYCAMORES!!


----------



## Coach

The fact that the Sycamores do have some fans that care is why this forum is busy all year long. When they play well they hear some accolades but when they play like crap they hear about that too. If this team was in another state and the team was 3-21 like the most recent team to kick our ass no one would frequent this board or give a rat's ass. Quite frankly I am amazed that they have won as many games as they have this year. After the first four or five games it looked to me like they just don't get it, meaning real teamwork concepts, hustle, defensive pride and a "refuse to lose attitude". During the course of this season they have discovered these attributes although only mostly one of them at a time and then lose it before discovering another. As a group they exhibit some really dumb "not high school but grade school characteristics" for example the tendency to foul three point shooters (how many times during the season by several different players including the senior leaders and not just once but repeatedly by those same players) and how many turnovers or bad shots does it take to put an ass on the bench and leave them there for an extended period of time?  There is no cohesiveness among the players or with the coaches and it won't fix itself this time around.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Seems like a really good post to me.  You must really be old--I didn't get there til 64.:lol:


----------



## ISUCC

Southgrad07 said:


> Everything you said is correct...however, I understand the anger because this game and really *the last stretch of games is proof that this team like so many other Lansing squads is getting worse not better in February.*
> 
> We all knew after the non con we would have to win the Lou to get a bid. The only way we could do that is to improve each and every week in the valley.. After a typically great start to the conference season we have started to regress and I think that is where a lot of the frustration is coming from.



#FebruaryCollapse


----------



## bent20

SycamoreinTexas said:


> It must suck knowing you've donated all this money for a program that doesn't give two shits about you! You are so fucking delusional Jason. You give give give all this money and what return on investment do you get? A team that loses to a 3-21 team??? Keep sending in your money for a shitty product. I'm done with this stupid fucking website where a majority of you Jack offs accept mediocrity! Enjoy losing dipshits! Peace out



You expect better than "mediocrity" but then criticize another fan for making donations and actually trying to make a difference. That is some backwards logic there. I'm all for expecting more when you have a football team that wins one out of 50 games, or a basketball coach who has finished below .500 six straight seasons (Waltman). But we are the poorest school in the conference and it's frankly a wonder we don't finish dead last every year. Doesn't help when we have alums who'd rather throw fits than donate money and show their support.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Jason Svoboda said:


> At least I've tried to make a difference. Maybe you should give it a shot?



He has promised to make a difference.  He said he was done posting here.  We won't have to hear his stupid crap any more.


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamore tuff said:


> He has promised to make a difference.  He said he was done posting here.  We won't have to hear his stupid crap any more.


Add him to your ignore list....   Easily one of the best features of this site!

I think everything to say about this loss to BU has been said...   With the talent we DO have, we should have ~4-5 more wins...     Hopefully the team and staff gets it together for the final run of the year


----------



## bluestreak

sycamore tuff said:


> He has promised to make a difference.  He said he was done posting here.  We won't have to hear his stupid crap any more.



Hooray!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> Excellent.  You bring up another good point - institutional issues.  I really don't believe that Hodges, Schellhase, Greene (well, maybe Greene), Locke, Dillard, Waltman and McKenna were all bad coaches.  There were road blocks placed in front of them by the institution that were impossible to overcome - budget restraints, scholarship limitations, geographical limitations, time and space restraints.  Most of these have been removed by the school, so other than fringe "benefits" like iPads, what are we missing?  We should pay our coaches more, but should we pay them more before they take the next step?  I was all in when Benjy wanted the university to buy a 727 for the pro pilot program - I thought our athletic teams could get a lot of use from that while giving our student pilots great jet experience - and it would have been a recruiting bonus.  But alas, it never happened.
> 
> We have a new arena on the horizon.  Whatever obstacles exist had better get fixed, or we're going to have teams playing in a beautiful, state of the art arena with 800 people in it.  The Board of Trustees, the president, the new AD had all better get behind making a decision on just what do we want to be, an OVC program that no one cares about, or an MVC program that judges success by championships?  Because if they don't do this, the HC project is just going to be a really expensive convention center.  And if they claim to want championships, they'd better figure out how to pay for it, and how to create a championship culture.
> 
> I really feel that a new AD might be coming along at just the right time.  A little shaking of the branches might be a good thing!



While I love football, we're a basketball school. We're always going to be known as one due to Larry Bird and if this program is ever going to rise, it's going to take money. It's the root of all evils and when it comes to athletics, it's what lifts programs. So here are my thoughts:

Budget: I'm using 2014 data from the OPE, but our hoops program had a $1.6m budget (12% of all athletics) and that was down 5% from 2013 where it was a shade under $1.7m. It put us at 223 of 349 Division 1 schools. For comparison's sake, Wichita State was 79th and spent $5.1m while UNI was 141st and spent $2.3m. IMO, we should fund men's basketball in the upper third -- it would take $2.8m to crack that spot. What could the program do with an extra $1.2m per year? That's program altering money.

Recruiting: This is the number one thing that more money could directly influence. More money for coaches to get out and travel to see players, more money to increase prospect pool, more money for official visits, etc. Recruiting moreso than coaching is directly responsible for wins and losses. In 2014, Indiana spent nearly $700k in basketball recruiting and Purdue spent $200k. Could you imagine if our program had "just" an extra $50k to put into recruiting? 

Salaries: While we have increased the salary pool over the last 5-6 years, we're still near the bottom of the conference overall. If Lansing decides to leave and you've got to go fight with 20 other mid-majors for a talented head coach, he is going to look at the salary pool and budget and wonder if he can be successful here. I can't remember Lansing's last increase but he was in the $230k ballpark. Since we often look at MAC schools, most of their salaries are in the $275-400k range. That $1.2m difference mentioned in the budget above? Here is where $200k of it goes -- into the staff salary pool. 

Buy Games: I believe that almost everyone in our conference had 6 D1 home games prior to opening the conference slate. We had four. It would be nice to be able to bring in LM teams to get early season experience against and you've got to pay them a bit more so you don't have to return a game to their place. You may also be able to get a premiere opponent every couple years to come to Terre Haute for the right price. Right now we've got to cut our teeth in MTEs. 

Player Benefits: You mention the iPads as fringe benefits but I think they're critical. We bash players all the time for things like turning the ball over, taking bad shots, but when the guys get these they will be able to watch film whenever they want as long as they have an Internet connection. That's is a pretty big thing IMO since I think a large part of development is the mental aspect of the game. That said, additional items like nicer jerseys, pimped out locker rooms, so on and so forth also tie into recruiting players. 

Those are just a couple things I came up with off the top of my head and I'm sure if you spoke to the players, coaches and program staff they could add into 10, 20 or 100 more line items that could be greatly improved with an influx of cash. IMO, you're 100% spot on that the new AD could be huge and if he is shaking any branches, I hope they're the money kind.


----------



## Sycafan

I totally agree! I will be at the game sporting my Sycamore hat as usual.  




Sycamore Proud said:


> We are, or claim to be, Sycamore fans.  What do fans do?  Well, you know they do some wild and illogical things.  They criticize and reprimand coaches and players--sometimes justified, some not.  Fans can say and do some totally uncalled for things.  And fans can give unending support to their team. That is, indeed, hard to do after games like we had al Loyola and Bradley (you can add EIU and IUPUI).  Fans can blow off steam and then come back and support their team.
> 
> Most of you, like me, will be there or listening/watching Wednesday night and loudly and proudly supporting our Sycamores.  We can't change the past--hopefully we can support a brighter future.  Nobody is saying it will be easy for this team to do.  But as true fans, that is what we must do.
> 
> *It is time that we, as fans, support this team as never before.  And it is time for this team to show such support is justified.*
> 
> Vent your frustration and anger here.  Then remember why you are a fan and adjust your frame of mind.  By Wednesday, you need to be in attendance, if you can, and show these guys that we still love Indiana State and want to win ball games.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

sycamore tuff said:


> He has promised to make a difference.  He said he was done posting here.  We won't have to hear his stupid crap any more.



There is a reason he was fired as an assistant at Iowa.


----------



## bent20

SycamoreinTexas said:


> There is a reason he was fired as an assistant at Iowa.



Yes, there is, he was a scapegoat for Awful Alford.

http://stevedeace.com/news/when-good-things-happen-to-good-people/#

I'm not saying Lansing is a perfect coach, but the consistency he's provided has produced a consistent winner. Can he take us further, to a conference title and past the first round of the NCAA Tournament, maybe not, but in our situation we could do a lot worse for a coach. 

Now when you can explain the simple steps necessary for us to take it to the next level and sustain it, I'll be happy to hear them.


----------



## blueblazer

SycamoreinTexas said:


> There is a reason he was fired as an assistant at Iowa.



Did the same to Waltman..... Royce accepted his apology


----------



## meistro

blueblazer said:


> Did the same to Waltman..... Royce accepted his apology



?


----------



## sycamore tuff

SycamoreinTexas said:


> There is a reason he was fired as an assistant at Iowa.



Apparently you are not a man or woman of your word.  You said your were done with this site.


----------



## jturner38

SIU probably going to run slip screens all day on us Wednesday.


----------



## the johnner

Good stuff. Jason! You're absolutely right on recruiting. You get a blue chipper a year and/or a kid that has the drive and enough skill/athleticism to become a blue chipper per year and in addition a complementary rotation guy or 2 per year, you can get out of this malaise, we find ourselves in, in 2 or 3 years. I said it a couple years ago and I'll say it again: Getting Larry Bird engaged and committed to the improvement of Indiana State University Basketball is the key.PERIOD,PERIOD,PERIOD!!! If there is anybody out there in the Sycamore Pride Nation who knows this guy, is a friend of this guy, go hunting with him, take him out golfing, go out to dinner and diplomatically make the point he HAS to support his alma mater, the way, his good buddy Magic Johnson supports Michigan State.


----------



## 4Q_iu

I've heard Magic's record of $$$ support to the Spartans is checkered...    
Regardless...   We need more $$$ in the MBB budget


----------



## BlueSycamore

The latest All-American the Sycamores have helped to create:

http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=210697688


----------



## BankShot

the johnner said:


> Good stuff. Jason! You're absolutely right on recruiting. You get a blue chipper a year and/or a kid that has the drive and enough skill/athleticism to become a blue chipper per year and in addition a complementary rotation guy or 2 per year, you can get out of this malaise, we find ourselves in, in 2 or 3 years. I said it a couple years ago and I'll say it again: Getting Larry Bird engaged and committed to the improvement of Indiana State University Basketball is the key.PERIOD,PERIOD,PERIOD!!! If there is anybody out there in the Sycamore Pride Nation who knows this guy, is a friend of this guy, go hunting with him, take him out golfing, go out to dinner and diplomatically make the point he HAS to support his alma mater, the way, his good buddy Magic Johnson supports Michigan State.



Other than the Bird Statue Dedication raising of $800,000+, I have NO IDEA of LB's involvement in ISU. He has two (2) brothers employed w/ the City (Eddie) and County (Mark), so the Bird's are consistently eating area bird feed. Max Gibson, CEO of 1st  Bank & LB's infamous "hunting buddy" withdrew support from Hulman Center & ISU Basketball last year for some reason, which NOBODY has discussed - so it's NOT just an LB matter we're talking about here.


----------



## BankShot

bent20 said:


> Yes, there is, he was a scapegoat for Awful Alford.
> 
> http://stevedeace.com/news/when-good-things-happen-to-good-people/#
> 
> I'm not saying Lansing is a perfect coach, but the consistency he's provided has produced a consistent winner. Can he take us further, to a conference title and past the first round of the NCAA Tournament, maybe not, but in our situation we could do a lot worse for a coach.
> 
> Now when you can explain the simple steps necessary for us to take it to the next level and sustain it, I'll be happy to hear them.



Here's another story which discusses the "stagnancy" that had set in @ Iowa in recruiting, which Alford believed was tied to Lansing.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...es-events-led-greg-lansing-hire-indiana-state

These comments strike a nerve @ ISU:

"Things had gotten stagnant," Alford said. "For whatever reason, things weren't moving forward. We needed a freshness, and I had to let him and Rich Walker go. I brought in Tim Buckley and Billy Garrett. I needed freshness more than anything else in regards to recruiting. There was nothing there with Greg. We were on good terms, and we still talk a lot."


----------



## bent20

BankShot said:


> Here's another story which discusses the "stagnancy" that had set in @ Iowa in recruiting, which Alford believed was tied to Lansing.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...es-events-led-greg-lansing-hire-indiana-state
> 
> These comments strike a nerve @ ISU:
> 
> "Things had gotten stagnant," Alford said. "For whatever reason, things weren't moving forward. We needed a freshness, and I had to let him and Rich Walker go. I brought in Tim Buckley and Billy Garrett. I needed freshness more than anything else in regards to recruiting. There was nothing there with Greg. We were on good terms, and we still talk a lot."



Clearly you don't know the story about what happened with Alford at Iowa. How he defended Pierre Pierce, lost the fan base, struggled to recruit and win. How he's been vilified here - and somewhat fairly when you look at what McCaffrery has done in rebuilding that same program. The problem was Alford. I know some people in Indiana still find that hard to believe because he's Steve Alford, but it's true!

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...d/87476/pierre-pierce-still-haunting-iowa-too

And of course all of that is really beside the point. When it comes to recruiting is Lansing the problem, or the school and its mediocre facilities, lame fan base, mediocre historical record, lack of any real name recognition?


----------



## BankShot

bent20 said:


> Clearly you don't know the story about what happened with Alford at Iowa. How he defended Pierre Pierce, lost the fan base, struggled to recruit and win. How he's been vilified here - and somewhat fairly when you look at what McCaffrery has done in rebuilding that same program. The problem was Alford. I know some people in Indiana still find that hard to believe because he's Steve Alford, but it's true!
> 
> http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...d/87476/pierre-pierce-still-haunting-iowa-too



Is it also possible that those in IOWA are equally blinded w/ regard to Lansing and the current situation @ ISU? I've never been an Alford fan, but he did have success in New Mexico. His current challenge @ UCLA is a different dragon unlike any other in college hoop, thanks to the Wooden legacy. The heat is currently on him in 9th place...

https://gojoebruin.com/2016/02/08/ucla-basketball-can-next-seasons-freshman-save-alford/

It's impossible to compare IOWA w/ ISU recruiting...different animals, but the "stagnancy" issue in our program now is bothersome.


----------



## bent20

BankShot said:


> Is it also possible that those in IOWA are equally blinded w/ regard to Lansing and the current situation @ ISU? I've never been an Alford fan, but he did have success in New Mexico. His current challenge @ UCLA is a different dragon unlike any other in college hoop, thanks to the Wooden legacy. The heat is currently on him in 9th place...
> 
> https://gojoebruin.com/2016/02/08/ucla-basketball-can-next-seasons-freshman-save-alford/
> 
> It's impossible to compare IOWA w/ ISU recruiting...different animals, but the "stagnancy" issue in our program now is bothersome.



Fair question regarding Lansing's Iowa roots as it applies to what some folks here think of him, but doesn't really mean anything to me. If Lansing were to leave, it wouldn't bother me because I'd be a little curious to see what might happen with a change, but I think he's done a respectable job given our situation. I also don't think for a second a school that is notorious for keeping losing coaches around for years and years isn going to let go of a coach with a winning record.


----------



## BankShot

bent20 said:


> Fair question regarding Lansing's Iowa roots as it applies to what some folks here think of him, but doesn't really mean anything to me. If Lansing were to leave, it wouldn't bother me because I'd be a little curious to see what might happen with a change, but I think he's done a respectable job given our situation. I also don't think for a second a school that is notorious for keeping losing coaches around for years and years isn going to let go of a coach with a winning record.



That same attitude virtually destroyed the ISU program in Waltman's last five (5) yrs, taking the final (4th) yr. under McKenna to get over the .500 hump. Look @ ISU home attendance now. As others have already mentioned, this season's home #'s are down the drain. How long will it take to repair the damage? At least 1/2 of next yrs. home season, if all goes as hoped. That's a big IF, as Lansing squads are usually slow out of the gates.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Chicken and the egg.  Not good when recruits visit and see the team playing in an empty gym.  

Recruiting is probably where it should be unless we can pull a rabbit out of a hat.  We can't recruit WSU type players from the middle of the conference.  It all depends on getting "decent" players with the right combination of skills and develop a "team."


----------

