# Former Indiana safety Antonio Allen to join Sycamore football program



## Jason Svoboda

Former Indiana safety Antonio Allen has officially transferred to Indiana State and will redshirt the 2015 season, ISU head coach Mike Sanford announced Wednesday morning.

Read more at GoSycamores...


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## new sycamore fan

Second chances are good, as long as the player realizes what a gift it is, and keeps clean and does the work.  Very talented player that should fill a void next season.  Based on the past transgressions, a risky move, but this has become the way of the athletic world. I wonder why the redshirt this season?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

A laundry list of charges in June... That would explain the redshirt season.

http://fox59.com/2015/06/16/indiana-university-football-player-facing-several-felony-drug-charges/

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ris-suffers-acl-injury--miss-season/30885613/


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## IndyTreeFan

Yikes.  High risk, high reward, I guess.  Calvin Schmidtke immediately comes to mind...

Although this is kinda how we ended up with Charles Swann when I was at ISU.  That worked out quite well.  I hope the kid takes advantage of the second chance he's been given.  Surely the coaches made clear that he's on a VERY short leash...


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## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> Yikes.  High risk, high reward, I guess.  Calvin Schmidtke immediately comes to mind...



He was arrested 2 months ago? High reward? How do you take that chance. He hasn't even been cleared of these criminal charges yet. This is outrageous, he's running a good program and he takes a chance like this? I just don't understand and I'm not afraid to be vocal about it. 

This just boggles my mind, 2 months ago he was released the same day he was charged by Indiana and we put a press release on GoSycamores about him joining the program and they don't even comment on his pending legal issues? They just assumed we wouldn't do a Google search or what? 

I mean I've already been broadcast as someone that doesn't care for the future of this program so what do I have to lose at this point?


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## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> He was arrested 2 months ago? High reward? How do you take that chance. He hasn't even been cleared of these criminal charges yet. This is outrageous, he's running a good program and he takes a chance like this? I just don't understand and I'm not afraid to be vocal about it.
> 
> This just boggles my mind, 2 months ago he was released the same day he was charged by Indiana and we put a press release on GoSycamores about him joining the program and they don't even comment on his pending legal issues? They just assumed we wouldn't do a Google search or what?
> 
> I mean I've already been broadcast as someone that doesn't care for the future of this program so what do I have to lose at this point?



I feel 'ya.  I just hope the coaches have a plan for this kid.  Maybe he'll clean up.  I know, that's probably wishful thinking, particularly understanding the percentage of arrests at ISU that are students from Indianapolis...


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## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> I feel 'ya.  I just hope the coaches have a plan for this kid.  Maybe he'll clean up.  I know, that's probably wishful thinking, particularly understanding the percentage of arrests at ISU that are students from Indianapolis...



I hope he cleans up too ITF, I don't wish ill will on the kid but I aint about to support this move by the program. Are we so far removed from our historically terrible past that we can afford to put this program in a negative spotlight?

Unnecessary risk for negative attention, even if he NEVER does anything wrong again in his life. Who is to say he will even be cleared of these criminal charges? Maybe they have some insider that the rest of the world doesn't have? Who knows, but any news media released about the kid now probably says former member of the Indiana University football program and or current member of the Indiana State Football program. 

Again, Indiana University a school with a history of this sort of thing releases a kid two months ago and all of the sudden he is fit for rehabilitation in our program? I'd love for a explanation on this. 

Sincerely that wack job on the internet that hates football. Please note that if his legal issues had been cleared up I would actually support the move, I am all in support of second chances. 2 months isn't enough time to make a sound decision in my mind unless they are privy to something that I am not. In the event that they are, then sure take a chance what do you have to lose. It's not like Terre Haute doesn't have other drug dealers.


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## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Sincerely that wack job on the internet that hates football.



That's classic!!!

I did notice in one of the stories that he had a hearing (or was supposed to have a hearing) on August 13.  Maybe something happened there?  I don't know.  I agree that this is a terribly risky move by the program, but looking on the bright side (I know, most probably didn't think I could _ever _look on the bright side of anything), if he cleans himself up, he could be an incredible addition to the defense.  But at the same time, the chances of that are pretty slim.  But maybe the kid straightens up.  Who knows?

I agree with your assessment that this risk is probably not worth taking.  But probably is the operative word here...in my opinion...


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## IndyTreeFan

From his tweets, I'm guessing Todd Golden has checked in here to gauge reaction.  And from Todd's tweets, I'd say Allen _ever _suiting up for us is a long shot at best...


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Hey if the football thing doesn't work out for him I bet he can run track?!?! I know some people.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> From his tweets, I'm guessing Todd Golden has checked in here to gauge reaction.  And from Todd's tweets, I'd say Allen _ever _suiting up for us is a long shot at best...



He is one of 2 people on Twitter ever to block me... Tom James the other.


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## bent20

SSOM makes some valid arguments, but I don't sweat news about transfers anymore as most of them never end up seeing the field for us, especially when they're announced 6-12 months in advance.

Here is his court info for anyone curious:

https://mycase.in.gov/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=21256582
https://mycase.in.gov/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=21261897

Doesn't look like he has an adult record, so decent chance he could avoid jail/prison time, even if convicted. I assume like most states, Indiana courts don't care mandatory sentencing requirements for drug offenses like federal courts do. 10 to 30 years for a Class 2 felony, doesn't mean 10 is a minimum prison sentence.


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## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Hey if the football thing doesn't work out for him I bet he can run track?!?! I know some people.



He's obviously not _that _good of a runner...too soon???


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## Jason Svoboda

bent20 said:


> SSOM makes some valid arguments, but I don't sweat news about transfers anymore as most of them never end up seeing the field for us, especially when they're announced 6-12 months in advance.
> 
> Here is his court info for anyone curious:
> 
> https://mycase.in.gov/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=21256582
> https://mycase.in.gov/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=21261897
> 
> Doesn't look like he has an adult record, so decent chance he could avoid jail/prison time, even if convicted. I assume like most states, Indiana courts don't care mandatory sentencing requirements for drug offenses like federal courts do. 10 to 30 years for a Class 2 felony, doesn't mean 10 is a minimum prison sentence.



To be fair, most FBS transfers we get just aren't good enough to play here or think they're going to come in and just get handed the job only to get shellshocked when they realize this isn't JV football. He was an All Big-Ten level type of guy with problems off the field. 

If he learns from his obvious moronic mistake and has cleaned up his act, it really could be a huge steal.


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## Bluethunder

Jason Svoboda said:


> To be fair, most FBS transfers we get just aren't good enough to play here or think they're going to come in and just get handed the job only to get shellshocked when they realize this isn't JV football. He was an All Big-Ten level type of guy with problems off the field.
> 
> If he learns from his obvious moronic mistake and has cleaned up his act, it really could be a huge steal.



I wouldn't mess with it.  I would have not brought him in.  However, I don't know what the coaches know, who they have talked to, what kind of plan they may have this young man on and steps he has to take to ever step foot on the field.  If the coaches have put in place a very strict, one strike and your out plan and the young many follows it to a T, then let him compete for a position and if he plays, so be it.

Personally, I think it is all a moot point, because I do not think he will ever actually play.  The redshirt year is ( I assume) to see how his legal troubles shake out, and it is just as likely that he will be convicted, serve real prison time and be dismissed as it is he will suit up for us.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

In all fairness we had a pretty good player here that was an established player for this University that had "off the field issues", all-be-it he was never charged with anything other than a season ending injury - his name was Shakir Bell. So you excuse him from the program and then you sign this guy who has major off the field issues? In what world does any of that make sense?


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## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> To be fair, most FBS transfers we get just aren't good enough to play here or think they're going to come in and just get handed the job only to get shellshocked when they realize this isn't JV football. He was an All Big-Ten level type of guy with problems off the field.
> 
> If he learns from his obvious moronic mistake and has cleaned up his act, it really could be a huge steal.



True, but it seems many don't workout for one reason or another.


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## Jason Svoboda

One thing is for sure... we can no longer mock Illinois State for the FBS rehab cruise ship they've been running under Spack. 

Guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.


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## bent20

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> In all fairness we had a pretty good player here that was an established player for this University that had "off the field issues", all-be-it he was never charged with anything other than a season ending injury - his name was Shakir Bell. So you excuse him from the program and then you sign this guy who has major off the field issues? In what world does any of that make sense?



Maybe I don't know enough about what happened with Shakir behind the scenes. I never heard of him facing any sort of legal trouble.


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## SycamoreSage

IndyTreeFan said:


> Yikes.  High risk, high reward, I guess.  Calvin Schmidtke immediately comes to mind...
> 
> Although this is kinda how we ended up with Charles Swann when I was at ISU.  That worked out quite well.  I hope the kid takes advantage of the second chance he's been given.  Surely the coaches made clear that he's on a VERY short leash...



The Charles Swann experience did not work out as well as you suggest. I know since I employed him.


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## OX 92

Indy sports radio .., 1070 is really beating us up


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## SycamoreStateofMind

OX 92 said:


> Indy sports radio .., 1070 is really beating us up



Yeah, JMV is an alum - he is no different from us, just larger platform and he has an IU market, inquiring minds want to know whats going on...


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## OX 92

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Yeah, JMV is an alum - he is no different from us, just larger platform and he has an IU market, inquiring minds want to know whats going on...


It's not jmv.  Greg Raystraw (sp?)


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## SycamoreStateofMind

OX 92 said:


> It's not jmv.  Greg Raystraw (sp?)



Well JMV was also tearing into us and said he was going to address this on his radio program starting at 3. For those that don't know JMV here ya go: 
http://statemagazine.com/john-michael-vincent-93/

Again - my only thought is they know something everyone else does't about this situation. They had to know this would get a HUGE reaction and it has. Indiana State hasn't been mentioned this much in one day on Twitter in a long long time.


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## IndyTreeFan

I do have to comment on the overreaction of many Sycamore "fans" to this.  Destroys what the program was becoming?  Win at any cost mentality?  Makes ISU look desperate?  Seriously?  I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and let Coach Sanford do what he does.  He hasn't exactly shown to be a coach without standards.  He deserves the benefit of the doubt.  But then I guess people couldn't engage in the overactive use of hyperbole.

Geez, this might end up being a bone headed move, but let's let it play out before we go all "death of the program."


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## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> I do have to comment on the overreaction of many Sycamore "fans" to this.  Destroys what the program was becoming?  Win at any cost mentality?  Makes ISU look desperate?  Seriously?  I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and let Coach Sanford do what he does.  He hasn't exactly shown to be a coach without standards.  He deserves the benefit of the doubt.  But then I guess people couldn't engage in the overactive use of hyperbole.
> 
> Geez, this might end up being a bone headed move, but let's let it play out before we go all "death of the program."



My guess is 90% of the "fans" speaking out on this haven't been inside of Memorial Stadium... possibly ever.


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## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> My guess is 90% of the "fans" speaking out on this haven't been inside of Memorial Stadium... possibly ever.



My thoughts exactly.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> I do have to comment on the overreaction of many Sycamore "fans" to this.  Destroys what the program was becoming?  Win at any cost mentality?  Makes ISU look desperate?  Seriously?  I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and let Coach Sanford do what he does.  He hasn't exactly shown to be a coach without standards.  He deserves the benefit of the doubt.  But then I guess people couldn't engage in the overactive use of hyperbole.
> 
> Geez, this might end up being a bone headed move, but let's let it play out before we go all "death of the program."



I understand this and agree to a certain extent. That being said, I don't think we should blur the lines between what is said on here and what is said on social media (just to be clear). Our own diehard fans (myself) are having a similar reaction to this news. Maybe we haven't gone so far as to say "win at all costs" yadda yadda but a lot has been said in here. I also have seen some postings on social media from some real diehard ISU fans, so not sure how accurate that 90% figure is. 

As far as Sanford is concerned, I agree completly. In fact, that is what makes this so surprising. I think he runs a pretty tight ship. We saw that with Bell and have seen it with other players. He will punish and he will move on... I just (as an alum, supporter of this University and this program) have a hard time looking at "what Antonio Allen could be" without looking at what he actually is. Because right now I see a kid who is extreamly talented who made some extremely bad choices (at least the evidence against him seems to suggest that). I'm not sure kids/college athletes should do rehabilition and serve time in a college football program under scholarship? What message does that send? 

Then again Randy Moss had some off the field issues coming out of college. If I recall he was set to attend Notre Dame, had his issues and ended up at Marshall. Randy Moss turned out to be a pretty good person on and off the field. Everyone makes mistakes, certainly wouldn't try and debate that. The question isn't about that, the question is "is this a necessary risk and worth the public relations reaction that we are seeing now"?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

JMV ripped us a pretty good one and he made it really clear and he is right, "it's a damn good thing people in Indy don't care (about Indiana State)".


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## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> JMV ripped us a pretty good one and he made it really clear and he is right, "it's a damn good thing people in Indy don't care (about Indiana State)".



I was listening in my car.  My ears are still burning...but as far as the PR aspect goes, JMV is right - totally bungled...


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> JMV ripped us a pretty good one and he made it really clear and he is right, "it's a damn good thing people in Indy don't care (about Indiana State)".



Which may be why they are willing to take the risk. 

Program has been winning and nobody cares so will they ever? Answer is probably no. So while some REAL fans don't like the signing, the rest of these asshats can crawl back into their IU/Purdue/Notre Dame holes from which they came out of.


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## IndyTreeFan

Please tell me, though, that ISU had a plan in place to deal with the expected PR backlash that this signing engendered.  Obviously, they should have seen this coming.  Crickets chirping isn't the right response.  Right now they're letting everyone else frame the issue, and they are looking dumb.  They should have done a better job by A) not even announcing this, or B) having a response ready to go.


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## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> Please tell me, though, that ISU had a plan in place to deal with the expected PR backlash that this signing engendered.  Obviously, they should have seen this coming.  Crickets chirping isn't the right response.  Right now they're letting everyone else frame the issue, and they are looking dumb.  They should have done a better job by A) not even announcing this, or B) having a response ready to go.



Just to play devil's advocate here, would anything they have said appeased the masses?


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## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> Just to play devil's advocate here, would anything they have said appeased the masses?



Good point, but if you get out in front of it, you can frame the debate.  Right now, everyone else is framing the debate in any way they wish.  I just think in this case, being proactive would have been better.  ISU fans, at least on JMV, seem to be getting on JMV pretty hard, but most people who are paying attention probably think it's horrible.  

Not doing any announcement at all would have been better.  If you're going to announce it, meet it head on and say why it's a good thing...


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## Sycamore Proud

If he is cleared of the charges we look pretty good for giving him a chance.  If he is found guilty he will, most likely, be dismissed from the program.  Again we don't look to bad.  If the case is still active after the RS year, I don't see him with the program.


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## bent20

From a PR standpoint it could be worse, we could be like IU with an alum making national news today for possession of child porn and sex with minors.

Might not be fair, but IU has been mentioned in every story I've seen about Fogle from his arrest to today because he was a student there when he first gained fame with Subway.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jared-fogles-life-jet-setter-prison-term/story?id=33182946


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## SycamoreStateofMind

bent20 said:


> From a PR standpoint it could be worse, we could be like IU with an alum making national news today for possession of child porn and sex with minors.
> 
> Might not be fair, but IU has been mentioned in every story I've seen about Fogle from his arrest to today because he was a student there when he first gained fame with Subway.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/jared-fogles-life-jet-setter-prison-term/story?id=33182946



Yeah but that is like a parent of a kid that is doing drugs going, well at least my kid didn't walk into a church and shoot up the joint. A. I don't judge my own University in comparison with the way others handle themselves or situations like this one. B. Neither reason is a good reason to be in the media. 

I kinda side with ITF here, why even make a press release and if you are going to do one why wouldn't you just get out in front of the issue and address it head on? If it were me, I'd probably have said let's see how this thing plays out for him legally before we go making a story about this. I don't actually know the answer to this (I think I do), but do they have any real obligation to make an announcement? I can't imagine that they do...


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## sycamore tuff

Not a bad move on ISU's part.  At least several thousand people are talking about ISU Football who may have not even known we have a team.


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## niklz62

here's a couple thoughts i have had about this coming from a former player/probation officer perspective/ISU being the only team i care about.  Here's a guy who is a great player, charged with some serious stuff and we sign him but he wont play till next year.  I have to assume if he is looking at 10-20 years in prison that MAYBE he wasnt a main player or had nothing to do with it at all and was just charged due to location at a time when people were breaking those laws.  Ive seen bigger charges on less guilty individuals.  Maybe they were trying to get him to roll on some friends and had some circumstantial evidence that they were pressuring him with to do so.

I doubt the coaches did this without some inside information that they dont want to disclose at this point knowing that he might not be available until the 2025 season.

one thing ive learned over the years is that the story in the newspaper about someone getting charged is never as juicy as the actual evidence suggests.  Some state's attorney's office policy's are to way overcharge people to get high bonds to get people to plea out to a lesser charge just to get out of jail.

but this is one case where I actually knew what was going on inside the offices.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Either way and like it or hate it the way this has played out in social media and on Indy Radio today has not been positive by any stetch. Something else we must face,


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## niklz62

"Indiana State Police have video of Allen selling drugs to an informant, according to court documents. They executed a search warrant at his apartment and reported finding a Colt .45 handgun, 47 grams of cocaine, 13 grams of heroin, three half-smoked blunts and $920 in cash."

Id be curious what drugs he was selling on camera, with whom he lived and were any other individuals arrested with him.  I also would like to know how they decided the blunts were "half smoked".


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## IndyTreeFan

FYI...Golden is reading the board and tweeting about what we're saying...lol...:munch:


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## niklz62

IndyTreeFan said:


> FYI...Golden is reading the board and tweeting about what we're saying...lol...:munch:



Sweet, it's gonna rain out my golf anyway.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Hey Todd - please unblock me, that is all.


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## niklz62

i have twitter but i rarely use it.  ive followed too many people and it overwhelms me.  maybe this will be what gets me active.


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## ISUCC

from the Indy Star

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...tonio-allen-transfers-indiana-state/31983369/

there just HAS to be an explanation for this, like others said, this is a PR nightmare for ISU today, I hope we get to hear the full story because this just hasn't made much sense given the charges he faces. I'll wait to hear more from the coaches, i just can't imagine them staying silent with this given the press release and all.


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## STATE Fan 95

Zach Osterman just wrote an article about it on indy star.  Sorry dont know how to post but sounds like he came to us and Sanford put strict guidelines on the table for him.  Lets hope he straightened up and plays.   I am not counting on him but am hopeful of him and will be all for him getting a second chance. I am sure there will be very little room for any screw up.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

STATE Fan 95 said:


> Zach Osterman just wrote an article about it on indy star.  Sorry dont know how to post but sounds like he came to us and Sanford put strict guidelines on the table for him.  Lets hope he straightened up and plays.   I am not counting on him but am hopeful of him and will be all for him getting a second chance. I am sure there will be very little room for any screw up.



Well if Zach is going to write a credible article about anything he ought to get the coaches first name correct, don't you think?? 

Mark Sanford? Really, what kind of second rate shit are they running at the Indy Star. Before you can worry about getting other houses in order maybe they should clean their own. Note: he calls him Mark Sanford in the title of the article. 

Other than that - a lot of good information from Sanford and Prettyman. I will let this rest for now and trust that they are doing the right thing. I don't love it but as RP said, "he doesn't make decisions based on what he thinks people will think is popular" or something to that effect. Good on you for that.


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## SycamoreFan317

Indy Star Article
http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...tonio-allen-transfers-indiana-state/31983369/


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## SycamoreSam

I can't believe that Todd Golden blocked SSOM!  He says some off the wall stuff but to block him on twitter is just wrong!  He just speaks his mind!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreSam said:


> I can't believe that Todd Golden blocked SSOM!  He says some off the wall stuff but to block him on twitter is just wrong!  He just speaks his mind!



LOL!

In all fairness to the guy reading this, I've sent him some pretty abrasive Facebook messages after reading some of his tweets and articles. Nothing personal - I don't take personal shots, but I have let him have it when I've disagreed with him. Oh well, no hard feelings I still read his stuff and I understand. I'd block me on Twitter also if I wasn't me.


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Well if Zach is going to write a credible article about anything he ought to get the coaches first name correct, don't you think??
> 
> Mark Sanford? Really, what kind of second rate shit are they running at the Indy Star. Before you can worry about getting other houses in order maybe they should clean their own. Note: he calls him Mark Sanford in the title of the article.
> 
> Other than that - a lot of good information from Sanford and Prettyman. I will let this rest for now and trust that they are doing the right thing. I don't love it but as RP said, "he doesn't make decisions based on what he thinks people will think is popular" or something to that effect. Good on you for that.



Don't see the big deal. He got his picture right.


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## southernindianaballer

I just think this could be a really good move.  Coach Sanford has made it known that he leans on Christ for strength...  Now, I don't know Coach... but if that is the case then he knows that God brings people into your life for a reason.  I hope this kid can learn and grow...  If ISU does not step up and help him what happens to him if no one else steps up?  I credit ISU for stepping up and believing they have the system and people in place to make this work.  Obviously, with the risk as it is, if they didn't think they could do it and be successful, they wouldn't.  That says something.
The press is on this and that's good for ISU and recruiting... So many great athletes understand they are hovering on the edge of disaster - socially and legally and really want to go somewhere that will guide them and lead them.... There are so few genuine leaders for our youth left these days.  Kudos again to ISU for stepping up and now other athletes will know ISU has your back and will lead you to the tools to be something in life - making the sure athletes are held accountable in parallel.
Let's face it - football coaching staffs are essentially a social working and counseling team for many players - their title says coach.  This kid obviously didn't have a close enough relationship with the IU staff.


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## ISUCC

I'd be curious to know what the other players on the team think of this?? Was this discussed with the team prior to ISU accepting his transfer? 

Anyone know what the ISU players think of all this??


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## Chief_Quabachi

southernindianaballer said:


> I just think this could be a really good move.  Coach Sanford has made it known that he leans on Christ for strength...  Now, I don't know Coach... but if that is the case then he knows that God brings people into your life for a reason.  I hope this kid can learn and grow...  If ISU does not step up and help him what happens to him if no one else steps up?  I credit ISU for stepping up and believing they have the system and people in place to make this work.  Obviously, with the risk as it is, if they didn't think they could do it and be successful, they wouldn't.  That says something.
> The press is on this and that's good for ISU and recruiting... So many great athletes understand they are hovering on the edge of disaster - socially and legally and really want to go somewhere that will guide them and lead them.... There are so few genuine leaders for our youth left these days.  Kudos again to ISU for stepping up and now other athletes will know ISU has your back and will lead you to the tools to be something in life - making the sure athletes are held accountable in parallel.
> Let's face it - football coaching staffs are essentially a social working and counseling team for many players - their title says coach.  This kid obviously didn't have a close enough relationship with the IU staff.



Well said. I hope this works for all involved............Good luck!!


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## IndyTreeFan

southernindianaballer said:


> I just think this could be a really good move.  Coach Sanford has made it known that he leans on Christ for strength...  Now, I don't know Coach... but if that is the case then he knows that God brings people into your life for a reason.  I hope this kid can learn and grow...  If ISU does not step up and help him what happens to him if no one else steps up?  I credit ISU for stepping up and believing they have the system and people in place to make this work.  Obviously, with the risk as it is, if they didn't think they could do it and be successful, they wouldn't.  That says something.
> The press is on this and that's good for ISU and recruiting... So many great athletes understand they are hovering on the edge of disaster - socially and legally and really want to go somewhere that will guide them and lead them.... There are so few genuine leaders for our youth left these days.  Kudos again to ISU for stepping up and now other athletes will know ISU has your back and will lead you to the tools to be something in life - making the sure athletes are held accountable in parallel.
> Let's face it - football coaching staffs are essentially a social working and counseling team for many players - their title says coach.  This kid obviously didn't have a close enough relationship with the IU staff.



Whatever you do for the least of these, you do for Me...

Great perspective, SIB.  Hadn't thought of it that way.  I hope the young man appreciates what the coaches are doing for him.


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## bent20

Now that there is this negative backlash from those in the media who don't even follow the program (JMV excluded) I like the move more. Fuck them! Come and cover our team and then we'll give a shit what you think. Please excuse my language, but I felt it was appropriate in this instance.

Now I'm getting fired up for football season!


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## new sycamore fan

The players trust the coaching staff and will take a wait and see attitude.  Allen needs to realize that he needs to come to the program with some humility and demonstrate that he understands the gift that he has been given by working hard, staying clean, learning, and being all about the team. This team has a very strong group of 5th year Senior leaders that have very open dialogue with the coaching staff, and Coach Sanford is highly respected in that group.  They are not going to stand for someone coming in with an attitude that is contrary to what they are about, and will not hesitate to be vocal about it. Also, Coach Alexander is quickly proving to be a strong, vocal leader, and I'm sure this will be a special project for him.  He has proven himself as a player at the highest level, and that presents another gift to Allen.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Why is it that when have these conversations in life do people like to elevate one opinion over another? Rhetorical, they do it to make themselves feel better, I get it. 

Some people have suggested that they support the move because they trust and believe in the Indiana State Football program. Just because you question this or disagee with the move doesn't mean you don't still love and support the program. 

It's like the gay marriage debate, just because you don't support gay marriage and publicly state as much doesn't mean you hate gays or homophobic. Sorry to get political but the same logic still applies here.

We want coverage, we want to be big time and then when we get it we bitch about it?! I don't understand this mentality? Embrace it and accept it for what it is. JMV praises and covers Indiana State more than anyone in the Indy market. He does several Indiana State interviews a year. He as much as anyone is entitled to an opinion for or against Indiana State - let me make that very clear. So BENT you have the right to be upset about non ISU supporters giving hell to ISU, but JMV is an alum and he doesn't turn his back on ISU so your post was fine with me until you lost perspective. 

All of this questioning and challenging should only make us stronger, should only allow us to look at things from all angles. I think it's a beautiful thing in life. But the message is simple, college athletics isn't a your either for us or your against us kind of world - some people would like to make it that way.


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## new sycamore fan

I don't openly support or openly dislike the move because it is not my decision to make, and I don't have all of the information that the people that make the decisions do.  I do support the program, the players, and the coaching staff though, and believe that they know far more than we do about how things fit together.


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## IndyTreeFan

new sycamore fan said:


> I don't openly support or openly dislike the move because it is not my decision to make, and I don't have all of the information that the people that make the decisions do.  I do support the program, the players, and the coaching staff though, and believe that they know far more than we do about how things fit together.



I agree.  Coach Sanford and RP obviously know a lot more about the situation than any of us do.  They've earned the respect to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I just hope the kid knows what kind of gift he's been given.  And that he makes the most of it.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> I agree.  Coach Sanford and RP obviously know a lot more about the situation than any of us do.  They've earned the respect to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I just hope the kid knows what kind of gift he's been given.  And that he makes the most of it.



Doesn't make it wrong to question it, disagree with it or discuss it. No one is above being questioned  in a respectful and reasonable manner.

I hope it works out though. This real life shit does more than hurt the kid, it hurts his family, friends, teammates and more. I don't really care what he can do on the football field to help our team. Screw that, its real life and he has to deal with real life stuff.


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## bent20

I just don't see where it hurts us that badly. No, it's not good to have negative things said about the school and the program, but what school is above this and has never been in a similar situation with a player? When you start to look worse is when you have multiple players with questionable backgrounds being brought in - Illinois State. I don't see that happening at ISU now. We have good coaches and a good administration. We also went through that before about 10 years ago and look what happened. I don't see it going there again.

This is a situation where Allen has a year to get it right. If he doesn't, he won't end up playing for us.


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## Jason Svoboda

The PR hit is really the only negative. If the kid ends up being prosecuted, he's gone. If he ends up having charges dropped or an arrangement worked out that corresponds with him being a model citizen and student at State during his "redshirt" year, we end up getting an All-Big Ten performer for assuming the risk. 

I will say most alumni on social media are livid of the school even given him the chance.


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## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Doesn't make it wrong to question it, disagree with it or discuss it. No one is above being questioned  in a respectful and reasonable manner.
> 
> I hope it works out though. This real life shit does more than hurt the kid, it hurts his family, friends, teammates and more. I don't really care what he can do on the football field to help our team. Screw that, its real life and he has to deal with real life stuff.



You're right, it doesn't make it wrong to question it or disagree.  It was my own opinion.  Others may not feel the same way.  Sanford is one coach that I will give wide latitude to when making these decisions because he's made some tough decisions that have impressed the heck out of me.  I don't see him being a "win at all costs" type of guy.  I think SoutherIndianaballer hit the nail on the head with his post last evening.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> I will say most alumni on social media are livid of the school even given him the chance.



And as you pointed out yesterday, how many of those alumni have been inside Memorial Stadium in the last 10 years?  How many give a single, solitary dime to ISU each year?  I'm going to guess the answer is "...not too damn many..."

A New York PR professional told a good buddy of mine a few years ago, "...there is no such thing as bad publicity.  There is only publicity."


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## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> I will say most alumni on social media are livid of the school even given him the chance.



I'm sure they'll get back at the school by continuing not to donate.


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## bent20

IndyTreeFan said:


> A New York PR professional told a good buddy of mine a few years ago, "...there is no such thing as bad publicity.  There is only publicity."



Common PR cliche, but not always true.


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## rapala

Ha Good point.  Maybe the will use their IU tickets now that they got rid of all of their problems.


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## Sackalot

you have to ask a few questions about him and get the answers before you can really know the story and have an understanding of this ridiculous situation...

1.  Why did he commit to Ole' Miss as a Junior at Ben Davis? 
2.  Why did he decommit to Ole' Miss to go to IU?
3.  How does a kid that is a star athlete who has virtually everything handed to him, while at BDHS and at IU get involved in selling serious drugs?
4.  Why does a kid that is selling serious drugs, who happens to be a well known athlete, think he can sell them to just about anyone?
5.  How is it possible that a kid with these charges being held in county jail get a $75,000 bond to get out?
6.  Per court documents stating there is video proof of him selling and significant amounts of actual heroine, coke and meth in his apartment, going to be found not guilty of something?  What does Indiana State University supposedly know about this legal situation?  

Answers to those questions are all readily available and/or easily determined with common sense.  And because those questions are easily answered....this is a stupid move!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Me has been thinking a lot about all of this and here is the conclusion that I have come to. 

His leagal team (who is quite good I might add [Trump voice])decided it was in his best interest to enroll in school (looks good on him) and he had to pick a school close because of the frequency of legal trips he may need to make to court and his potential probation wouldn't allow him to leave the state. So they choose a school that is an hour away and has a pretty decent football program. Move 1. 

Next the people in his camp make calls to Indiana State about his potential transfer. We go up the ladder and do "our homework", talk to people that have come into contact with him in the past and they get a good vibe about him. My thought is that they (his camp) had the right people talking about him i.e. his former highschool football coach. Move 2. 

The most imporant move. He is now enrolled in shool and has the okay from ISU to play football. Now all they need to do is publicly make it official, why? Because it creates accountability in the eyes of the leagal system. Now everyone knows where Antionio Allen is. Not only that, people in his camp pitch that being part of a team and being involved in the community is the best way for him to be rehabilitated (and yes I realize he already proved to be incompetent of doing this very thing). Indiana State gave Antonio a second chance at life that he maybe doesn't get wasting tax payer $ in a jail cell. Game, Set, Match! Move 3.

It's a very calculated and well thought out plan by his legal council. I am arrogant enought to believe that I am smart enough to figure out what is going on here (but you already knew that). 

I don't think any judge handing down sentencing for this sort of thing would buy this tactic for a minute. But what else do they have to lose? They plead guilty, they say he doesn't have a prior record, he has already enrolled in school, plans to keep playing football, have the same mother freaking character witnesses testify on his behalf and la da freakin da we got ourself a Big Ten Strong Safety!


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## new sycamore fan

Well, I suppose they know he's innocent until proven guilty in court, and I suppose they also know he won't be on the field until that is settled and a final verdict is given.  I suppose they also know that they are attempting to give a good player a second chance, and if there are any breaks to the rules they've established he won't be around for long. Not a pretty picture in the past, but who knows what the picture will be in the future?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Well if your reading my post going that is great, way to put the pieces together Sherlock. Kick rocks, your just mad you don't have as much free time as me to think of this shit.


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## Isuman

*A MAN Selling cocaine, heroin, methon camera and......*

we offer a full ride scholarship to him.This is the height of hypocrisy when it comes to character, class and accountability. What would happen to a full ride academic scholar at ISU if they were charged with these serious crimes. I am dumbfounded!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

*A MAN Selling cocaine, heroin, methon camera and......*



Isuman said:


> we offer a full ride scholarship to him.This is the height of hypocrisy when it comes to character, class and accountability. What would happen to a full ride academic scholar at ISU if they were charged with these serious crimes. I am dumbfounded!



Hey welcome to game, we have an entire thread devoted to this conversation (believe it or not). Take your dumbfounded self over and join us, no need for an additional thread.

What did you think we were just pretending this didn't happen and not talking about it??

He is one of the few kids in college right now that has ran his own business. You have to look at this from every angle and we have here at SycamorePride this is what we do.


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## Jason Svoboda

Isuman said:


> we offer a full ride scholarship to him.This is the height of hypocrisy when it comes to character, class and accountability. What would happen to a full ride academic scholar at ISU if they were charged with these serious crimes. I am dumbfounded!



Let's be honest... it all depends on the individuals worth to the school. If it was an esteemed academic researcher bringing in academic grant money, I bet the school would find a way to sweep that under the rug provided the individual could get out of any legal issues. Talented or skilled people get more chances and opportunities than Average Joes do. That happens in all walks of life, in all circumstances. Is it right? That's certainly up for discussion but you can apply this theory to any profession and find similar results.


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## niklz62

Lets start drug/alcohol testing our fine academic scholarship students.


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## SycamoreFan317

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Me has been thinking a lot about all of this and here is the conclusion that I have come to.
> 
> His leagal team (who is quite good I might add [Trump voice])decided it was in his best interest to enroll in school (looks good on him) and he had to pick a school close because of the frequency of legal trips he may need to make to court and his potential probation wouldn't allow him to leave the state. So they choose a school that is an hour away and has a pretty decent football program. Move 1.
> 
> Next the people in his camp make calls to Indiana State about his potential transfer. We go up the ladder and do "our homework", talk to people that have come into contact with him in the past and they get a good vibe about him. My thought is that they (his camp) had the right people talking about him i.e. his former highschool football coach. Move 2.
> 
> The most imporant move. He is now enrolled in shool and has the okay from ISU to play football. Now all they need to do is publicly make it official, why? Because it creates accountability in the eyes of the leagal system. Now everyone knows where Antionio Allen is. Not only that, people in his camp pitch that being part of a team and being involved in the community is the best way for him to be rehabilitated (and yes I realize he already proved to be incompetent of doing this very thing). Indiana State gave Antonio a second chance at life that he maybe doesn't get wasting tax payer $ in a jail cell. Game, Set, Match! Move 3.
> 
> It's a very calculated and well thought out plan by his legal council. I am arrogant enought to believe that I am smart enough to figure out what is going on here (but you already knew that).
> 
> I don't think any judge handing down sentencing for this sort of thing would buy this tactic for a minute. But what else do they have to lose? They plead guilty, they say he doesn't have a prior record, he has already enrolled in school, plans to keep playing football, have the same mother freaking character witnesses testify on his behalf and la da freakin da we got ourself a Big Ten Strong Safety!



Well, this is all fine but I see one problem none of your theory creates doubt and  without doubt he is fried. What you are mentioning would be mitigating factors for sentencing. Sanford has done this sort of thing before and it worked out that time, let's hope it works out again. In theory I like what  Sanford is doing, I would like it a lot more if this red shirt year was on Allen's dime. Then we truly would have nothing to lose.


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## niklz62

Maybe I missed this being a fact or not but is he on scholarship?   I don't suppose as far as scholarships that this is any bigger risk than any other Scholarship offer.  Ive seen guys who were "cant miss" miss.  I suspect that we will only waste a year on the scholarship if it turns out to be wasted.


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## southernindianaballer

Is it possible we only lose a semester (of scholly) since his court date is in December - if convicted?  Just thinking...  a lot of player issues are troubling at IU in basketball and football... I mean, really, these have not been minor issues as of late at IU.  We all know what they have been.  It makes one wonder if part of the problem is the leadership at IU.  It also kinda reminds me of "Breaking Away" and the vast differences in the "Haves" and "Have Nots."  The poor Cutters just wanted to be part of it but were pushed away...  Kids will find ways to get money when these discrepancies and stereotypes exist and the discrepancy is getting larger as we speak - nationwide.  You know... ISU is different, the president and first lady get out on campus, talk to the kids, get to know them, they approach the students.  I still think they did the right thing reaching out to help a kid in need.  They must know something we don't, obviously.  I am confident that the staff can handle this guy and get him on track and keep him there.  I mean, really, what if ISU doesn't step up?
another article - may have been posted already?
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20150819/SPORTS/150819651/1030/IU


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## Sycamore Proud

niklz62 said:


> Lets start drug/alcohol testing our fine academic scholarship students.



Absolutely should be done!  Is it not done now?


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## Sycamore Proud

*From Tom James on Facebook*

@Rick_Sports10: Spent time at ISU football practice today. Former IU player and new Sycamore Antonio Allen was with the team, but not practicing today.

@Rick_Sports10: ISU coach Mike Sanford on Antonio Allen "There are risk. Then are calculated risk. Based on info I have. I feel this is a calculated risk".

@Rick_Sports10: ISU coach Mike Sanford on Antonio Allen "He has a good chance to make this happen".

@Rick_Sports10: ISU coach Mike Sanford also said Antonio Allen he has a very short leash with the Sycamores.

@Rick_Sports10: ISU coach Mike Sanford addressed with me the fans and alumni being upset with him bringing in Antonio Allen.

@Rick_Sports10: Mike Sanford on ISU fans/alum upset with him bringing in Antonio Allen"I understand. Everyone entitled to there opinion.


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## needles

I'm a strong believer in second chances but there is no way in hell that this guy should be around the football team. He was selling heroin, not weed, heroin. Bad mistake, very bad mistake.


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## jturner38

It's either he turns his life around with the short leash he is already on and eventually play for us or he doesn't play and is gone. ISU gets a good talent if he gets his act together if not ISU doesn't look bad because they will say we tried to give him a chance (small chance). I think the reactions are expected but reaching just a little bit. If he was able to play right away then I think everyone reaction would be 100% correct but given he is "redshirting" that's a whole year so 1 mess up and he is gone.  I also heard about somebody disrupting practice because of this move. Not sure who it was but that is completely uncalled for. I know the police were called but that's all the info I know. Anybody else know anything about this incident?


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## BrokerZ

I've stayed mum about this because at first I honestly didn't know how I felt.  On one hand I don't want our university wasting scholarships on drug dealers where walk-ons and other more deserving players could be given that scholarship.  On the other hand, this particular player is a stud talent...NFL-caliber.  It's hard to pass on that kind of talent.

Now, the question is: is the juice worth the squeeze?  For now, I'm leaning 60/40 that it is.  He's redshirting, which means he isn't seeing game action at all this year.  He isn't even practicing right now...just watching.  He's on probation in the football sense while he's on probation (not in the formal, legal sense) in life.  If it turns out he's found guilty of his infractions, then he's cut loose and we move on.  If there's another path that allows him a final opportunity to clean up his life and stay out of jail, then I trust our coaching staff to be the guiding group to set him straight.  I also believe in our Senior leadership on the football team that they will not allow one bad apple to ruin the bunch.  

I also believe with Prettyman when he said that you cannot make decisions based on the assumed public reaction.  That is nothing you can control.  All you can do is make a calculated decision based on the information available, and if it's unpopular at the time you must simply live with the consequences and stick to your convictions.  

I could honestly care less about what the public reaction is to this.  The public's view of ISU football is quite frankly meaningless at this point in time.  The ONLY way any of that changes, is if we continue to win consistently and win the right way.  How we get there is completely up to the coaching staff and the current leadership.  If they think offering this kid a scholarship continues to move us in that direction, then for now I'm cautiously on board.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

BrokerZ said:


> I've stayed mum about this because at first I honestly didn't know how I felt.  On one hand I don't want our university wasting scholarships on drug dealers where walk-ons and other more deserving players could be given that scholarship.  On the other hand, this particular player is a stud talent...NFL-caliber.  It's hard to pass on that kind of talent.
> 
> Now, the question is: is the juice worth the squeeze?  For now, I'm leaning 60/40 that it is.  He's redshirting, which means he isn't seeing game action at all this year.  He isn't even practicing right now...just watching.  He's on probation in the football sense while he's on probation (not in the formal, legal sense) in life.  If it turns out he's found guilty of his infractions, then he's cut loose and we move on.  If there's another path that allows him a final opportunity to clean up his life and stay out of jail, then I trust our coaching staff to be the guiding group to set him straight.  I also believe in our Senior leadership on the football team that they will not allow one bad apple to ruin the bunch.
> 
> I also believe with Prettyman when he said that you cannot make decisions based on the assumed public reaction.  That is nothing you can control.  All you can do is make a calculated decision based on the information available, and if it's unpopular at the time you must simply live with the consequences and stick to your convictions.
> 
> I could honestly care less about what the public reaction is to this.  The public's view of ISU football is quite frankly meaningless at this point in time.  The ONLY way any of that changes, is if we continue to win consistently and win the right way.  How we get there is completely up to the coaching staff and the current leadership.  If they think offering this kid a scholarship continues to move us in that direction, then for now I'm cautiously on board.



I am not on the fence and I've made my opinion known. 

A lot of people have posted comments in support of the decision. For me at least, what you posted resonated. I aint changing my mind, but well stated!


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## jturner38

BrokerZ said:


> I've stayed mum about this because at first I honestly didn't know how I felt.  On one hand I don't want our university wasting scholarships on drug dealers where walk-ons and other more deserving players could be given that scholarship.  On the other hand, this particular player is a stud talent...NFL-caliber.  It's hard to pass on that kind of talent.
> 
> Now, the question is: is the juice worth the squeeze?  For now, I'm leaning 60/40 that it is.  He's redshirting, which means he isn't seeing game action at all this year.  He isn't even practicing right now...just watching.  He's on probation in the football sense while he's on probation (not in the formal, legal sense) in life.  If it turns out he's found guilty of his infractions, then he's cut loose and we move on.  If there's another path that allows him a final opportunity to clean up his life and stay out of jail, then I trust our coaching staff to be the guiding group to set him straight.  I also believe in our Senior leadership on the football team that they will not allow one bad apple to ruin the bunch.
> 
> I also believe with Prettyman when he said that you cannot make decisions based on the assumed public reaction.  That is nothing you can control.  All you can do is make a calculated decision based on the information available, and if it's unpopular at the time you must simply live with the consequences and stick to your convictions.
> 
> I could honestly care less about what the public reaction is to this.  The public's view of ISU football is quite frankly meaningless at this point in time.  The ONLY way any of that changes, is if we continue to win consistently and win the right way.  How we get there is completely up to the coaching staff and the current leadership.  If they think offering this kid a scholarship continues to move us in that direction, then for now I'm cautiously on board.



Well said. I completely agree with you on this.


----------



## TreeTop

I have a question for those who are against this signing...

With folks bringing up "worst case scenarios" of this signing (including Todd Golden in his article), what do you anticipate to be a worst case scenario....or even terrible case scenario?

Allen getting other athletes and students hooked on heroin?
Someone in Allen's past (drug related bad-mofos) coming to a practice or game and shooting up the place and killing people?
Allen himself going postal and killing people?

I'm genuinely curious about what people think is a worst case scenario that could occur as a consequence to this signing?

Personally, I see it as, he's on a short leash, he slips up and gets cut from the team, removed from the school....or....he turns his life around and excels on the field and in the classroom.

What is the terrible case scenario people are anticipating?


----------



## TreeTop

jturner38 said:


> It's either he turns his life around with the short leash he is already on and eventually play for us or he doesn't play and is gone. ISU gets a good talent if he gets his act together if not ISU doesn't look bad because they will say we tried to give him a chance (small chance).



Hear hear.

(http://www.learnersdictionary.com/qa/hear-hear)


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## treeman

I know that the link below is for indiana high school football, but it's interesting to see peoples perspective outside of ISU alums/fans.

http://gridirondigest.net/index.php/topic/6335-isu-allen/


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## WOZ

niklz62 said:


> Maybe I missed this being a fact or not but is he on scholarship?   I don't suppose as far as scholarships that this is any bigger risk than any other Scholarship offer.  Ive seen guys who were "cant miss" miss.  I suspect that we will only waste a year on the scholarship if it turns out to be wasted.



Likewise.  I'd like to know if he is on scholarship now?   If so, why?   If he is being given a second chance, then offer him a scholarship after he's cleaned up his act.   With all the legal and NCAA issues facing him now, I'd think his chances of being cleared to play are less than 50/50.
We have all talked about how our athletic program needs to watch its spending.  This seems like we're throwing money into the wind if he is being given any kind of financial aid at this point.
Also, were we the first and only school the Ben Davis coach called to try and help Allen out?  
I sure hope this all works out as Sanford envisions.


----------



## Sackalot

serious question.  I keep seeing this statement, high risk/high reward.  What is the reward if this kid by some miracle doesn't go to prison and ever plays for ISU?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Quabachi said:


> I have a question for those who are against this signing...
> 
> With folks bringing up "worst case scenarios" of this signing (including Todd Golden in his article), what do you anticipate to be a worst case scenario....or even terrible case scenario?
> 
> Allen getting other athletes and students hooked on heroin?
> Someone in Allen's past (drug related bad-mofos) coming to a practice or game and shooting up the place and killing people?
> Allen himself going postal and killing people?
> 
> I'm genuinely curious about what people think is a worst case scenario that could occur as a consequence to this signing?
> 
> Personally, I see it as, he's on a short leash, he slips up and gets cut from the team, removed from the school....or....he turns his life around and excels on the field and in the classroom.
> 
> What is the terrible case scenario people are anticipating?



I don't speak for everyone, but I don't have a worst case scenario. My choice to not support this issue has little to do with what could happen now that he is on our roster or if he could get in trouble again - nothing like that, not a concern of mine at all. 

1. I don't like the message it sends to the entire University. The team members that are currently on that roster, if they had these charges against them are you telling me they would still be allowed to be on the team? Highly doubtful. If a track and field coach wanted to bring in a kid with pending legal issues of this stature would they allow them to do it? Highly doubtful. It doesn't send a good message and I am not happy about that. 

2. The negative PR that has came from this. You now have fans, media and nonfans seperated on another issues reguarding ISU Football program. Sorry, this is not a good thing. This is the third major story in as many years surrounding this football program. First was Bell, last year was the Indy Star article and this year the Antonio Allen story. I don't think we can afford any negative press, contrary to what others have said and they've made a fine case. I'm not angry about this or toward anyone who has a different opinion than mine - I see both sides of the issue very clearly. 

3. It is not a right for this kid or any other to be part of D1 Athletics, it is a privilege - many of the same people supporting this move by Sanford and the University have used that same defense in the past in support of kids getting cut or kids getting let go because of off the field issues. Some folks tend to sway back and forth and judge this on a situational basis - that's fine. But this kid had a chance to play D1 athletics, to get his school paid for, to possibly make a better life for himself playing football or doing something else professionally - he made a bad choice, should he get another chance? Sure, I don't see why not. Should he get it 2 months after the fact before his fate has even been played out in a court of law? Negative, I don't believe so. 

Those are my issues, has nothing to do with a worst case scenerio - what is done is done. It can't turn out any worse for me than it already is. You've already sent the message that we are willing to sign kids with a criminal history. As 317 has said, nothing has been proven here. That's all fine and good, but to be even linked to this kind of activity is a major red flag to me.


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## southernindianaballer

I found some video evidence has been released, not sure where this came from.  You make your own decision based on the evidence.
https://youtu.be/AzSYer7qfuw


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## treeman

southernindianaballer said:


> https://youtu.be/AzSYer7qfuw



This video is evidence enough that he is a criminal...the way that he treated those high school football players is enough to land you behind bars. seriously, he is/was a complete monster out there on the gridiron. Still hate the decision of bringing him in but you can't deny his ability on the field.


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## southernindianaballer

I truly don't know if I have ever seen so many literal bone crushing hits delivered by one person in Indiana.  He explodes to the ball like crazy.
https://youtu.be/AzSYer7qfuw


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## SycamoreStateofMind

treeman said:


> This video is evidence enough that he is a criminal...the way that he treated those high school football players is enough to land you behind bars. seriously, he is/was a complete monster out there on the gridiron. Still hate the decision of bringing him in but you can't deny his ability on the field.



He's playing football... He is not supposed to treat them with kindness. You've completely lost perspective. It's funny we agree it was a poor decision for a coach who has publicly claimed that "we sign high character kids at Indiana State but we couldn't be more far apart on what we think if him as a football player - I think he's very good.

But to call him a criminal based on a highlight film - playing SS no less in HS where most teams run the football and you want to throw him in jail for the way he plays the game?? Incredible... Come off it.

If you wanna be upset with someone be upset with the coaching staff and University for allowing this to happen. Don't be upset at the kid, he made a mistake and it wasn't while he was here. He made a mistake, a lot of kids make mistakes. But to be viciously negative toward him as a person shows that you've lost perspective.


----------



## needles

The guy is a bad human. He either helped someone get on the path to addiction and a ruined life or profited from people who are already addicted. He should not be on our campus let alone our football team. There is no forgiving that in my book. I hope he lands in jail. No forgiveness for a narcotics dealer.


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## niklz62

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> He's playing football... He is not supposed to treat them with kindness. You've completely lost perspective. It's funny we agree it was a poor decision for a coach who has publicly claimed that "we sign high character kids at Indiana State but we couldn't be more far apart on what we think if him as a football player - I think he's very good.
> 
> But to call him a criminal based on a highlight film - playing SS no less in HS where most teams run the football and you want to throw him in jail for the way he plays the game?? Incredible... Come off it.
> 
> If you wanna be upset with someone be upset with the coaching staff and University for allowing this to happen. Don't be upset at the kid, he made a mistake and it wasn't while he was here. He made a mistake, a lot of kids make mistakes. But to be viciously negative toward him as a person shows that you've lost perspective.



I thiught it was a joke?


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## BrokerZ

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> He's playing football... He is not supposed to treat them with kindness. You've completely lost perspective. It's funny we agree it was a poor decision for a coach who has publicly claimed that "we sign high character kids at Indiana State but we couldn't be more far apart on what we think if him as a football player - I think he's very good.
> 
> But to call him a criminal based on a highlight film - playing SS no less in HS where most teams run the football and you want to throw him in jail for the way he plays the game?? Incredible... Come off it.
> 
> If you wanna be upset with someone be upset with the coaching staff and University for allowing this to happen. Don't be upset at the kid, he made a mistake and it wasn't while he was here. He made a mistake, a lot of kids make mistakes. But to be viciously negative toward him as a person shows that you've lost perspective.



I think your sarcasm meeter needs a tune up.


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## treeman

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> He's playing football... He is not supposed to treat them with kindness. You've completely lost perspective.




Believe I it or not SSOM but I have played football through high school and now have coached middle and high school football. So id like to think i have a pretty good grasp on the rules and fundementals of the game. I am well aware that what he did was well within the football rules and he should not be thrown in jail because of it. It was a joke, i have not lost perspective. 

I really cant believe that anyone would have responded to my comment like you did.


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## Sycamore Proud

treeman said:


> I really cant believe that anyone would have responded to my comment like you did.



SSoM is ok--he is a good guy that provides good insight and info here.  But you should have known
that Morgan character that was here a few years ago. His reaction to all of this would have been unique.


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## new sycamore fan

That made me laugh.  Good stuff! Now, about the actual football team that starts playing in 2 weeks?? Over 100 responses to this thread, which I guess is expected considering the controversy, but none on the team?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

treeman said:


> Believe I it or not SSOM but I have played football through high school and now have coached middle and high school football. So id like to think i have a pretty good grasp on the rules and fundementals of the game. I am well aware that what he did was well within the football rules and he should not be thrown in jail because of it. It was a joke, i have not lost perspective.
> 
> I really cant believe that anyone would have responded to my comment like you did.



Sorry I didn't see the humor in it - when you used the word "seriously" after already making your point I guess I should have figured that was code word for this is a complete joke. I went back and read what you had to say again and still not sure given the seriousness of this thread that I would have picked up on your sarcasm. Trying to filter through all of these comments makes it tough sometimes so my appologies for trying to put you on blast. That being said, you've been coming around here long enough that you really shouldn't be surprised by how I respond to comments.


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## bent20

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe there is no such thing as bad publicity. We're two weeks from the start of the season and this forum was mostly dead until the Allen signing. Now we have our two busiest threads in many months both related to the signing, and he's not even going to play this year. At least everyone is waking up and paying some attention.


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## new sycamore fan

Agree.  No attention to the actual football team, just everyone wanting to voice on the "Allen Issue". Not many real football fans here I guess.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

new sycamore fan said:


> Agree.  No attention to the actual football team, just everyone wanting to voice on the "Allen Issue". Not many real football fans here I guess.



Meh...

Controversy has struck up visits and posts on this website for a LONG time now. This is nothing new and is by no means isolated to football. I don't think the lack of posts about the team is in anyway indicative of "real football fans here". Other than the regular posters on this forum that discuss all topics Indiana State we don't see a huge up-tick in posting on the basketball forum either. 

As for the football team the position breakdowns that the Tribune Star has been doing on a weekly basis has been very helpful. Provides a good breakdown at each position and the depth chart - I have read them all.


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## niklz62

new sycamore fan said:


> Agree.  No attention to the actual football team, just everyone wanting to voice on the "Allen Issue". Not many real football fans here I guess.



Im just not a fan of basing all my info on us playing ourselves since we arent on our schedule.   waiting for week 1 is like being a kid waiting for Christmas.  Cant wait to see what we put on the field for a real game.

I need an Allen Iverson "practice" picture


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## IndyTreeFan

new sycamore fan said:


> Agree.  No attention to the actual football team, just everyone wanting to voice on the "Allen Issue". Not many real football fans here I guess.



Personally, I've been around long enough that the same old preseason football "How's the team doing" threads never say anything different - defense ahead of offense, the lines will be all important, special teams must improve, we've got some nice skill players.  It's the same thing every year.  So, why bother until the season starts?  That's when we'll find out all the really interesting stuff...

Plus, the daily updates that were done on GoSycamores.com were very helpful and answered the same questions that  used to get asked here.  And answered them in the same way, I might add...:lol:

I'm a real football fan, but preseason doesn't mean much to fans in the grand scheme...


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## niklz62

I still hate camp.


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## 4Q_iu

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Yeah but that is like a parent of a kid that is doing drugs going, well at least my kid didn't walk into a church and shoot up the joint. A. I don't judge my own University in comparison with the way others handle themselves or situations like this one. B. Neither reason is a good reason to be in the media.
> 
> I kinda side with ITF here, why even make a press release and if you are going to do one why wouldn't you just get out in front of the issue and address it head on? If it were me, I'd probably have said let's see how this thing plays out for him legally before we go making a story about this. I don't actually know the answer to this (I think I do), but do they have any real obligation to make an announcement? I can't imagine that they do...



Disagree --- there's little to NO chance that Fogle "developed" his proclivities for kiddie porn AFTER he graduated from gloomington, he no doubt had them BEFORE he applied and was admitted.   The odds of finding any activity while he was an gloomington student are slim/none --- someone should submit a FOIA request to see if he worked at the infamous kinsey "institute" while a student...

Fogle is another alumni that gloomington can be proud to claim... just like jim jones - cult leader...


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## Jason Svoboda

Article from the Indiana student newspaper:

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2015/12/fallen-from-grace


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## ISUCC

Jason Svoboda said:


> Article from the Indiana student newspaper:
> 
> http://www.idsnews.com/article/2015/12/fallen-from-grace



great story Jason, thanks for posting

kids had a tough life

even if he never puts on an ISU uniform I hope he gets his life straightened out


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## IndyBulldog

Rumor circulating in Indianapolis is that Antonio Allen is enrolled in classes at Marian University.  If this is in fact true, was wondering what, if anything happened at ISU?  I noticed he was still listed on the 2015 ISU Roster.


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## Jason Svoboda

IndyBulldog said:


> Rumor circulating in Indianapolis is that Antonio Allen is enrolled in classes at Marian University.  If this is in fact true, was wondering what, if anything happened at ISU?  I noticed he was still listed on the 2015 ISU Roster.



I've been sitting on this for awhile but since you mentioned it, I have been told he was gone. I really do not wish to go into any more details but I hope to hell the kid wakes up before he's 30 and finds himself on the wrong end of life. That's all I say.


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## BlueSycamore

Jason Svoboda said:


> I've been sitting on this for awhile but since you mentioned it, I have been told he was gone. I really do not wish to go into any more details but I hope to hell the kid wakes up before he's 30 and finds himself on the wrong end of life. That's all I say.



I'm thinking the Indiana Dept. of Correction has a cell reserved for him. Just a matter of time before he checks in for a long stay.


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## bigsportsfan

Thanks, pal. We take all the heat for giving you a shot, and you don't play a down for us.


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## 4Q_iu

bigsportsfan said:


> Thanks, pal. We take all the heat for giving you a shot, and you don't play a down for us.


True but imagine the heat, bad press if he plays AND then more stuff happens....   He didn't letter, come next season, WHO will remember that he spent time around the fball program?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

The only real "heat" we took was internally from our own fan base. People who are not fans of Indiana State talked about this for a few days and forgot all about it. If they aint a fan of Indiana State and had a problem with the gamble then F emmm. 

I didn't support the move at the time, still don't. But it happened and that is just the way it goes.


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## niklz62

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The only real "heat" we took was internally from our own fan base. People who are not fans of Indiana State talked about this for a few days and forgot all about it. If they aint a fan of Indiana State and had a problem with the gamble then F emmm.
> 
> I didn't support the move at the time, still don't. But it happened and that is just the way it goes.



I agree here. Hell we can drag a topic out for years and this one died in basically 5 days.  It was a longshot and I'm disappointed that we didnt get play him because i wanted to know what he would look like in a MVFC game but good luck to him from here on. 

I had heard that at the end of the season he wasn't even on the team anymore. No circumstances just that he wasn't around anymore.


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## the johnner

Blessing in disguise.


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## bent20

Given our history, especially recent, with transfers did anyone expect him to actually stick? I sure didn't.


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## niklz62

bent20 said:


> Given our history, especially recent, with transfers did anyone expect him to actually stick? I sure didn't.



Normally they dont stick because they werent good enough to play.  This one was for reasons not related to talent.


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## bent20

Reminds me of the Schmitke kid, but there have been others as well. It may not always be problems with the law, but problems with ego. We seem to see that a lot. Guys who think they'll be the big fish in the little pond, but then don't like it when they're expected to swim.


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## IndyBulldog

If he got shown the door I would assume his only chance to play right away was at an NAIA school.  He had to burn a redshirt year last year when he transferred to ISU did he not?


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## Jason Svoboda

IndyBulldog said:


> If he got shown the door I would assume his only chance to play right away was at an NAIA school.  He had to burn a redshirt year last year when he transferred to ISU did he not?



No. You can drop to FCS from FBS and play immediately. 

He was taking a legal year.


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## TwoMinuteDrill

Jason Svoboda said:


> No. You can drop to FCS from FBS and play immediately.
> 
> He was taking a legal year.



You are correct on the transfer rule.  There is a caveat however, you are only eligible if you leave your former institution in good standing. In his case, IU removed him from the university and he was not in good standing.  In this case you either have to sit out a year or red shirt.  Even if ISU wanted him to play right away, and I don't believe they did, he was ineligible.


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## BankShot

*Recall ANTONIO ALLEN?*

http://www.courierpress.com/sports/...-guilty-to-felony-drug-charges-382365771.html

Surely there's a school w/ a lucrative on-campus drug business where he could excel? Maybe Crean will use him as a "Preferred Provider" to his IU hoop team? Might need to hire Vigo Supt. of Schools DANNY TANOOS as a consultant, thus improving efficiency in the marketplace.:bigboss:


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## SycamoreFan317

Faced the Judge this week, got off pretty easy.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...n-pleads-guilty-felony-drug-charges/85641494/


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## IndyBulldog

Antonio Allen arrested in Indianapolis on armed robbery charge. Arrested on 12/02.


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## treeman

Sucks to see a kid with an opportunity to better himself and his family piss it down the drain.


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## BankShot

treeman said:


> Sucks to see a kid with an opportunity to better himself and his family piss it down the drain.



Drug abuse leads to these "fast lanes" of life...he'll now have plenty of time to reshape his attitude and behavior, won't he?


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## Coach

*The Antonio Allen Fiasco*

As Popeye says "enough is too much". Lock his ass up & throw away the key. Start at about 20 yrs and go from there. Can't help those who won't help themselves you just enable their actions until someone really gets hurt.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ntonio-allen-arrested-marion-county/95256628/


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## sycamore tuff

BankShot said:


> http://www.courierpress.com/sports/...-guilty-to-felony-drug-charges-382365771.html
> 
> Surely there's a school w/ a lucrative on-campus drug business where he could excel? Maybe Crean will use him as a "Preferred Provider" to his IU hoop team? Might need to hire Vigo Supt. of Schools DANNY TANOOS as a consultant, thus improving efficiency in the marketplace.:bigboss:



I wonder why he didn't play for Colorado?


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## BankShot

Probably couldn't handle the "high"...:wacko:


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## OX 92

Dude is a danger.


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