# [December 7, 2016] Indiana State (4-4) vs #16 Butler (8-0)



## Jason Svoboda

vs. 






*Indiana State Sycamores (4-4) vs. #16 Butler Bulldogs (8-0)
*​*
Hulman Center - Terre Haute, IN
Wednesday, December 7, 2016
​7:00 PM EST Tip​*


----------



## ISUCC

Since this is more than likely the last time we'll play Butler in a regular season game, especially in Terre Haute, let's send them off the same way we sent IU off the last time IU played in Terre Haute, it can be done! Stranger things have happened


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## Daveinth

ISUCC said:


> Since this is more than likely the last time we'll play Butler in a regular season game, especially in Terre Haute, let's send them off the same way we sent IU off the last time IU played in Terre Haute, it can be done! Stranger things have happened



Didnt we beat them one other time since this time  here in Terre Haute ?


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## BankShot

Daveinth said:


> Didnt we beat them one other time since this time  here in Terre Haute ?



I recall the Tyler Schnitker 27' dagger in Indy...that was sweet!


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## sycamorebacker

Daveinth said:


> Didnt we beat them one other time since this time  here in Terre Haute ?



2006.  I believe Tunnell was a FR.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> 2006.  I believe Tunnell was a FR.



Thankfully a Jay Tunnell reference... ugh guy had one good half of a season and will forever live on in Sycamore lore.


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## ISUCC

Daveinth said:


> Didnt we beat them one other time since this time  here in Terre Haute ?



Dave, you're right, we did beat IU in Terre Haute December 6th, 2005, 72-67. I think that was the last time we played IU, they were tired of losing to us. 

Gotta beat Butler in the same fashion to enhance our NCAA at-large chances


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## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Thankfully a Jay Tunnell reference... ugh guy had one good half of a season and will forever live on in Sycamore lore.



..and rightfully so. How many 3's did he sink @ IL St in a game similar to the Utah St. comeback ...8? I liked the kid...if you'll recall, he played OUT OF POSITION as a center, which was responsible for his back injury given the beating he took. Didn't we also whip ISU @ HC his 1st season when he shutdown the IU-like  "Murphquake?"?

If Tunnell would've been used like Lansing used Gant (facing the hoop), he'd excelled during his full ISU experience. Unfortunately, McKenna never figured this out until late in Jay's career.

Memory refresher...notice the RECORDS of BOTH ISU's:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20090208_INST@ILST


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## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Thankfully a Jay Tunnell reference... ugh guy had one good half of a season and will forever live on in Sycamore lore.



He should if he scored 1168 pts in a half season.


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## Daveinth

ISUCC said:


> Dave, you're right, we did beat IU in Terre Haute December 6th, 2005, 72-67. I think that was the last time we played IU, they were tired of losing to us.
> 
> Gotta beat Butler in the same fashion to enhance our NCAA at-large chances





I looked a little into this and we actually went down there and lost . Per Go Sycamore  :*11/17/2006 at Indiana L 66-73 17178 Assembly Hall, Bloom
* However we played Purdue that year and kicked the shit out of them :  *12/28/2006 PURDUE W 89-70 7986 Hulman Center (Terre*


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## SycamoreStateofMind

*[December 7, 2016] Indiana State (4-4) vs #18 Butler (8-0)*



sycamorebacker said:


> He should if he scored 1168 pts in a half season.



What math class did you take that I didn't?! I could be sitting on millions right now. 

The Jay Tunnel conversation is one of the dumbest that I ever have with Sycamore fans. He's a white big man that never lived up to the lofty expectations set for him - so wheh he finally did play well (on shitty teams might I add) everyone forgot about 3 mediocre seasons...

Banks instant recollection of the Illinois State game is exactly what I'm talking about. If not for that game I'm not sure anyone ever talks about the kid. Bank also tried to associate his injury to the position he played... Now your grasping for straws.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

What's the line on this game going to be?! Butler by 9ish??


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## BrokerZ

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> What's the line on this game going to be?! Butler by 9ish??



Probably pretty close to that, but I'm guessing it'll be low double-digits.  Something like 11.5.


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## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> What math class did you take that I didn't?! I could be sitting on millions right now.
> 
> The Jay Tunnel conversation is one of the dumbest that I ever have with Sycamore fans. He's a white big man that never lived up to the lofty expectations set for him - so wheh he finally did play well (on shitty teams might I add) everyone forgot about 3 mediocre seasons...
> 
> Banks instant recollection of the Illinois State game is exactly what I'm talking about. If not for that game I'm not sure anyone ever talks about the kid. Bank also tried to associate his injury to the position he played... Now your grasping for straws.



Test your HISTORICAL recall...how did Bird hurt his back while playing for the Celtics? Had it not been for this neurological injury caused by the INTERIOR GRIND of NBA play, he'd played 5 more yrs.  Tunnel & Gant were cut from the same mold - FACING the hoop, not low post "back to the basket" mule activity.

Also, I guess you forgot the IU win when Tunnell 1st arrived from KS and he SHUT DOWN the 6'7" 275 lb monster they had inside. Unfortunately, we mis-typed him for a C and not a F after this (at least until LATE in his career).

Curious...do you recall GANT'S early career injuries? Very similar...after getting his tooth knocked out by that Hawaii INTERIOR wave, we expected him to CHEW people up inside. Never was his hoop demeanor...


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## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> What math class did you take that I didn't?! I could be sitting on millions right now.
> 
> The Jay Tunnel conversation is one of the dumbest that I ever have with Sycamore fans. He's a white big man that never lived up to the lofty expectations set for him - so wheh he finally did play well (on shitty teams might I add) everyone forgot about 3 mediocre seasons...
> 
> Banks instant recollection of the Illinois State game is exactly what I'm talking about. If not for that game I'm not sure anyone ever talks about the kid. Bank also tried to associate his injury to the position he played... Now your grasping for straws.



Huh?  YOU were the one who said he played a half of season.  I'm merely pointing out that he scored 1168 pts in his career.  

Thanks for your considerate and intelligent conversation.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> Huh?  YOU were the one who said he played a half of season.  I'm merely pointing out that he scored 1168 pts in his career.
> 
> Thanks for your considerate and intelligent conversation.



He averaged 25 minutes a game over 4 years and never played less than 29 games in a season. Not impressive. Intelligence is relative.


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## 4Q_iu

We have 37 players who scored 1,000 or more during their ISU careers; 2 have ppg's of 25+, 2 more have ppgs of 20+

6 have ppg's under 10

Tunnell wasn't the first nor will he be the last player that doesn't meet expectations

his FG percentage increased annually; his FT increased Fr-Jr, his SR season, he shot 71% from the line (as he did his Soph season)


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## TreeTop

Maybe we should revert this conversation to the Former Player Profiles section of the website, for Jay Tunnell.


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## TreeTop

Here is a link to Butler's current season stats:

http://sidearm.sites.s3.amazonaws.c...nts/2016/12/3/2016_17_Butler_MBB_Combined.pdf

Kelan Martin averaging 18+ points a game.


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## TreeTop

Key Wins for Butler this season:

Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Arizona
Utah

Key Losses:  They're undefeated.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

TreeTop said:


> Maybe we should revert this conversation to the Former Player Profiles section of the website, for Jay Tunnell.



Maybe but does it really matter? Does this site generate so much conversation that it really matters where certain conversations take place? My guess after being around these parts for awhile is probably doesn't matter. I will take conversation where I can get it even when I disagree.


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## TreeTop

I don't watch a lot of Butler BBall, so I'm happy to be corrected on this.

They've got a 6'11" Frosh in Joey Brunk and a 6'10" Sophomore who averages 2 points a game.

So, unless those guys have the games of their career against us....and that's absolutely possible.....looks like we'll size up well against the rest of their team.


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## BrokerZ

TreeTop said:


> I don't watch a lot of Butler BBall, so I'm happy to be corrected on this.
> 
> They've got a 6'11" Frosh in Joey Brunk and a 6'10" Sophomore who averages 2 points a game.
> 
> So, unless those guys have the games of their career against us....and that's absolutely possible.....looks like we'll size up well against the rest of their team.



With one exception: Tyler Wideman.  That kid's a load in the post, and he rebounds with some real intensity.  With as much as we struggle with athletic bigs, I expect him to at least have 10 and 10 against us.  They're otherwise a perimeter-oriented team, which shouldn't be a problem for us matchup-wise.


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## Jason Svoboda

Butler has moved up two spots to #16.


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## sycamorebacker

TreeTop said:


> I don't watch a lot of Butler BBall, so I'm happy to be corrected on this.
> 
> They've got a 6'11" Frosh in Joey Brunk and a 6'10" Sophomore who averages 2 points a game.
> 
> So, unless those guys have the games of their career against us....and that's absolutely possible.....looks like we'll size up well against the rest of their team.



Butler does not sub much.  The two you mentioned play very little from what I've seen.


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## BankShot

BrokerZ said:


> With one exception: Tyler Wideman.  That kid's a load in the post, and he rebounds with some real intensity.  With as much as we struggle with athletic bigs, I expect him to at least have 10 and 10 against us.  They're otherwise a perimeter-oriented team, which shouldn't be a problem for us matchup-wise.



So will Butler see the vaunted (at least 1 game anyway) Sycamore "matchup zone?"

They don't go that deep...will be interesting to see what GAME PLAN will be thrown at 'em by ISU, given the success we had in the 2nd half @ Logan, UT. I liked the switching defense concept, as it takes awhile to IDENTIFY & ADAPT, leaving less time to run an offense.


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## sycamorebacker

4Q_iu said:


> We have 37 players who scored 1,000 or more during their ISU careers; 2 have ppg's of 25+, 2 more have ppgs of 20+
> 
> 6 have ppg's under 10
> 
> Tunnell wasn't the first nor will he be the last player that doesn't meet expectations
> 
> his FG percentage increased annually; his FT increased Fr-Jr, his SR season, he shot 71% from the line (as he did his Soph season)



Correct.  JT averaged 9.6.  Odum, for example, averaged 11.7, Menser and Renn were 11.2 and 11.4.  Sounds like someone got off on the wrong floor to get on here and trash a player that is 26th in career scoring, led the team in scoring one year and led the team in rebounding 2 years. 
I would appreciate any player that comes here, contributes like that for 4 years, and is a good citizen.

And like Bank said, he gave us a win over IU.


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## BrokerZ

BankShot said:


> So will Butler see the vaunted (at least 1 game anyway) Sycamore "matchup zone?"



You know, I almost included that in my post about Wideman but the thought/mention of another game where we play zone almost made me laugh out loud.


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## pbutler218

I think Butler's 3 standout players are Martin and Wideman, but their guard Lewis is pesky too. He can shoot and also drive to the basket. I watched them play Utah on the road and Butler was just too quick for them IMO. I think they have a couple of newcomers who have played well for them as well.


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## BankShot

BrokerZ said:


> You know, I almost included that in my post about Wideman but the thought/mention of another game where we play zone almost made me laugh out loud.



Ya, given the past 6 yr. ISU defensive history, such a thought does seems pretty far fetched.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

If I remember correctly, Chrabascz, was the one who killed us last year. He is a tough, physical matchup for Van Scyoc @ the 4.

We will also need Franklin to bring his big boy pants to defend Martin.


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## BankShot

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> If I remember correctly, Chrabascz, was the one who killed us last year. _*He is a tough, physical matchup for Van Scyoc *_@ the 4.We will also need Franklin to bring his big boy pants to defend Martin.



Let's hope that BK is more prepared for THIS game...no "thin air" excuses in TH.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> And like Bank said, he gave us a win over IU.



"He" was not the only player on that team... Meh to the other stuff.


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## Southgrad07

Yeah, not worried about BU depth hurting us, their frontline guys are terrific though. We need to be in attack mode and not settling for jumpers. Their guards aren't real big or physical and their bigs aren't rim protectors. That being said.. they play as a unit and don't hurt themselves. If we play lazy or selfish ball we will in for a long night.

When it comes to the whole JT debate I am in between the two sides. I fully understand ssom argument and believe he is elevated based on an extremely small sample size (10ish great games to end his sr season). The other part of me looks at his other 3 1/2 seasons and says he still was a solid 5 , which we have lacked in almost every season here at state. Think back to last season, would a JT not of made that team much better at the 5 spot? I think so...

Is he one of the best 20-30 sycamores of all time? NO...is he one of the best interior players we've had in 15-20 years? YES


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## sycamorebacker

Southgrad07 said:


> When it comes to the whole JT debate I am in between the two sides. I fully understand ssom argument and believe he is elevated based on an extremely small sample size (10ish great games to end his sr season). The other part of me looks at his other 3 1/2 seasons and says he still was a solid 5 , which we have lacked in almost every season here at state. Think back to last season, would a JT not of made that team much better at the 5 spot? I think so...
> 
> Is he one of the best 20-30 sycamores of all time? NO...is he one of the best interior players we've had in 15-20 years? YES



Your description of Tunnell is quite accurate.  I'm not sure what this debate is about.  It is determined by facts.  I wouldn't minimize Tunnell's contribution to us.  I don't know all of the older players on the list, but he is in about the top 8-10 all-time as far as "big man" scoring for us. 
I've been following ISU for 50 years and I know I appreciate any player that's 6'8 and scores over 1100 points.  We have been INCREDIBLY inconsistent at the 4 and 5 positions with most of our scoring coming from perimeter players.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> Your description of Tunnell is quite accurate.  I'm not sure what this debate is about.  It is determined by facts.  I wouldn't minimize Tunnell's contribution to us.  I don't know all of the older players on the list, but he is in about the top 8-10 all-time as far as "big man" scoring for us.
> I've been following ISU for 50 years and I know I appreciate any player that's 6'8 and scores over 1100 points.  We have been INCREDIBLY inconsistent at the 4 and 5 positions with most of our scoring coming from perimeter players.



This is all fair and South is on point also. I've made my point. It's an overall annoyance with Sycamore fans constantly bringing up a player that had a sub par career in my opinion. Some would argue how good his 10ish good games were but I would use those 10ish games to make an argument against him. He had the ability to be good he just came up short. We good though. I get the other side of the argument.


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## Westbadenboy

Everyone -- NOTE the title of this thread --- its about the ISU vs Butler game.

Enough with all this Tunnell stuff ....................move on !

Sooooo .........any hipe around ISU/Terre Haute about the game ?  Hoping for a nice, big crowd -- heading over from Carmel myself.


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## sycamorebacker

Westbadenboy said:


> Sooooo .........any hipe around ISU/Terre Haute about the game ?  Hoping for a nice, big crowd -- heading over from Carmel myself.



Post corrected.


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## Coach

ISUCC said:


> Dave, you're right, we did beat IU in Terre Haute December 6th, 2005, 72-67. I think that was the last time we played IU, they were tired of losing to us.
> 
> Gotta beat Butler in the same fashion to enhance our NCAA at-large chances



Do you really I mean REALLY think "At Large" is even a gleam in anyone's eye after the Florida trip? Hope to beat the Butler but it would not get an invitation to the Dance. That ship already sailed. A winning season still on the board but don't expect anymore.


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## Jason Svoboda

Coach said:


> Do you really I mean REALLY think "At Large" is even a gleam in anyone's eye after the Florida trip? Hope to beat the Butler but it would not get an invitation to the Dance. That ship already sailed. A winning season still on the board but don't expect anymore.


Concur... the only way to even get in that consideration would be to run the table from this point and lose in the MVC title game putting you at what, 27 or 28-5. I don't think this team is capable of such a feat.


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## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> Everyone -- NOTE the title of this thread --- its about the ISU vs Butler game.
> 
> Enough with all this Tunnell stuff ....................move on !
> 
> Sooooo .........any hipe around ISU/Terre Haute about the game ?  Hoping for a nice, big crowd -- heading over from Carmel myself.


There has been some promotion on Twitter that I've seen.


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## BankShot

Ya, over @ Dunkin Donuts @ 41 & Hulman!:lol:


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## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> There has been some promotion on Twitter that I've seen.



Agreed - if you follow any of Sycamore Basketball, Sycamore Athletics, any of the administration, coaches, etc....you'll know plenty about this game.  I don't know how they are promoting it locally and on-campus, but on Twitter and other social media outlets they've been pretty active.


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## BankShot

BrokerZ said:


> Agreed - if you follow any of Sycamore Basketball, Sycamore Athletics, any of the administration, coaches, etc....you'll know plenty about this game.  I don't know how they are promoting it locally and on-campus, but on Twitter and other social media outlets they've been pretty active.



Where's Butler...Indy? How much coverage? 

We see this as a long-time rival, do they? In other words, is the hype equal on both ends, or is ISU now Butler's non-conf "Oakland City?"


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## TreeTop

BankShot said:


> Where's Butler...Indy? How much coverage?
> 
> We see this as a long-time rival, do they? In other words, is the hype equal on both ends, or is ISU now Butler's non-conf "Oakland City?"



I'm sure it's becoming much less of the long-time rival view, and more of a non-con yawn game, but...

I also bet that Butler has a good sized contingency at the game, mainly due to the proximity to Indy and the fact that they're undefeated, 16th ranked.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

BankShot said:


> Ya, over @ Dunkin Donuts @ 41 & Hulman!:lol:



Hahaha you're so stupid. Lmao


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## BrokerZ

BankShot said:


> Where's Butler...Indy? How much coverage?
> 
> We see this as a long-time rival, do they? In other words, is the hype equal on both ends, or is ISU now Butler's non-conf "Oakland City?"



I feel pretty confident in saying that Butler (fans, teams or otherwise) care nothing about ISU.  They do not look at us as anything other than a short road trip for a decentish non-con game.

I'm also not sure I personally consider Butler to be any sort of rival.  A rivalry requires a certain frequency of games and competitiveness on both ends.  We don't play them regularly enough nor are we competitive with them enough for me to consider this a rivalry game.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

BrokerZ said:


> I feel pretty confident in saying that Butler (fans, teams or otherwise) care nothing about ISU.  They do not look at us as anything other than a short road trip for a decentish non-con game.
> 
> I'm also not sure I personally consider Butler to be any sort of rival.  A rivalry requires a certain frequency of games and competitiveness on both ends.  We don't play them regularly enough nor are we competitive with them enough for me to consider this a rivalry game.



This on all fronts. They care about as much about us as I care about them. Quite frankly as far as I'm concerned they consider us just another in-state school like I do them and it's always a little bit sweeter when you beat schools in the state of Indiana.


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## Bulldawgfan

Butler Fan here! couple of things to catch you guys up on....

1. Butler Fans are worried about this game! Some are considering this a "trap" game. It hasn't been too long from our west trip so Butler might still be fatigue. Other fans worry about the team overseeing ISU and focusing on Cincy, & IU, and others are just worried that ISU is a good team in general that has the talent to beat Butler. 

2. Wideman and Chrabascz can get a little physical. Wideman will be physical on the boards and Chrabascz has some quality post moves. Brunk won't play much but Nate Fowler (So.) will play and could see a decent amount of offensive rebounds.

3. Lewis, our once all-american point guard can pass and give people open shots. He is not a shoot first kinda guy. I do not know anything about your guards but if they are semi physical then 5'10 (if that) Lewis wont be a factor. Lewis' game fades going into Big East Play because of the physical play imo.

4. Avery Woodson (aka Kellen Dunham 2.0) This guy has been shooting lights out and what has help Butler win a couple of games. Grad transfer from Memphis. Hope he is still hot. 

5. Kamar Baldwin (Fr) Point guard can play spot on defense and drive to the basket. Should come off the bench and be a huge factor.

6. Kethan Savage. Another transfer senior that has been injured/illness and is slowly coming back. Had a good game last time on the court but still is a work in process.

7. Kelan Martin is our top scoring and is very talented. Possibly NBA talent but he gets careless at times and if you frustrate him he could disappear.

8. Sean Mcdermott is a lengthy skinny hustle guy that can shoot the 3 and grab some boards. 

9. Butlers Bench is pretty good. I don't not know who mentioned a weak bench but Savage, Baldwin, Sean Mcdermott, and Nate Folwer can all play a lot of minutes and contribute.

10. I am excited for this game and wanted to tell you a little bit about Butlers team this year because of all the new faces they have. This is a different Butler team than in the past. Guards that can drive to the basket and have quick speed often beat us. So I hope ISU doesn't have one of those!

Great board! Not many teams have a good quality board like this one. 

Also ESPN3? We should be on a real network. Should be a good game.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bulldawgfan said:


> Butler Fan here! couple of things to catch you guys up on....
> 
> 1. Butler Fans are worried about this game! Some are considering this a "trap" game. It hasn't been too long from our west trip so Butler might still be fatigue. Other fans worry about the team overseeing ISU and focusing on Cincy, & IU, and others are just worried that ISU is a good team in general that has the talent to beat Butler.
> 
> 2. Wideman and Chrabascz can get a little physical. Wideman will be physical on the boards and Chrabascz has some quality post moves. Brunk won't play much but Nate Fowler (So.) will play and could see a decent amount of offensive rebounds.
> 
> 7. Kelan Martin is our top scoring and is very talented. Possibly NBA talent but he gets careless at times and if you frustrate him he could disappear.
> 
> 8. Sean Mcdermott is a lengthy skinny hustle guy that can shoot the 3 and grab some boards.


Thanks for the heads up on the other guys. Our team is very Jeckyl and Hyde with how they play so it really depends on which team rolls out Wednesday night if we keep it competitive or not. 

We were the first or among the first scholarship offers for Wideman, Martin and McDermott. McDermott's mom is an ISU alum.


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## 4Q_iu

BrokerZ said:


> I feel pretty confident in saying that Butler (fans, teams or otherwise) care nothing about ISU.  They do not look at us as anything other than a short road trip for a decentish non-con game.
> 
> I'm also not sure I personally consider Butler to be any sort of rival.  A rivalry requires a certain frequency of games and competitiveness on both ends.  We don't play them regularly enough nor are we competitive with them enough for me to consider this a rivalry game.



A fair assessment -- I believe collier pushed to end the annual home/home series (played ~1951-1990 seasons...)

a damn shame as it was a great series for both programs

hoping we run em off the boards tonight -- a pleasant surprise if we do


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## treeman

I think most can sense this the last time we play Butler in a while (I sure hope not though), the least we can do is beat them to give them a REASON for not playing us.


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## 4Q_iu

treeman said:


> I think most can sense this the last time we play Butler in a while (I sure hope not though), the least we can do is beat them to give them a REASON for not playing us.




There ISN'T a reason to NOT play us.

Clink needs to lock isu-m, buttler and (possibly valpo) into long-term annual contracts.

And put em on SATURDAYs if you want legit attendance.


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## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Hahaha you're so stupid. Lmao



Hey...respect your ELDERS, or I'll order a lightning bolt with destination to St. Patrick's. Damn young pups of this world...


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## BankShot

Bulldawgfan said:


> Butler Fan here! couple of things to catch you guys up on....
> 
> 1. Butler Fans are worried about this game! Some are considering this a "trap" game. It hasn't been too long from our west trip so Butler might still be fatigue. Other fans worry about the team overseeing ISU and focusing on Cincy, & IU, and others are just worried that ISU is a good team in general that has the talent to beat Butler.
> 
> 2. Wideman and Chrabascz can get a little physical. Wideman will be physical on the boards and Chrabascz has some quality post moves. Brunk won't play much but Nate Fowler (So.) will play and could see a decent amount of offensive rebounds.
> 
> 3. Lewis, our once all-american point guard can pass and give people open shots. He is not a shoot first kinda guy. I do not know anything about your guards but if they are semi physical then 5'10 (if that) Lewis wont be a factor. Lewis' game fades going into Big East Play because of the physical play imo.
> 
> 4. Avery Woodson (aka Kellen Dunham 2.0) This guy has been shooting lights out and what has help Butler win a couple of games. Grad transfer from Memphis. Hope he is still hot.
> 
> 5. Kamar Baldwin (Fr) Point guard can play spot on defense and drive to the basket. Should come off the bench and be a huge factor.
> 
> 6. Kethan Savage. Another transfer senior that has been injured/illness and is slowly coming back. Had a good game last time on the court but still is a work in process.
> 
> 7. Kelan Martin is our top scoring and is very talented. Possibly NBA talent but he gets careless at times and if you frustrate him he could disappear.
> 
> 8. Sean Mcdermott is a lengthy skinny hustle guy that can shoot the 3 and grab some boards.
> 
> 9. *Butlers Bench is pretty good. I don't not know who mentioned a weak bench *but Savage, Baldwin, Sean Mcdermott, and Nate Folwer can all play a lot of minutes and contribute.
> 
> 10. I am excited for this game and wanted to tell you a little bit about Butlers team this year because of all the new faces they have. This is a different Butler team than in the past. Guards that can drive to the basket and have quick speed often beat us. So I hope ISU doesn't have one of those!
> 
> Great board! Not many teams have a good quality board like this one.
> 
> Also ESPN3? We should be on a real network. Should be a good game.



After McDermott (#7), the #'s from your subs drop off considerably...

http://butlersports.com/cumestats.aspx?path=mbball&


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## Bulldawgfan

BankShot said:


> After McDermott (#7), the #'s from your subs drop off considerably...
> 
> http://butlersports.com/cumestats.aspx?path=mbball&



Although in tight games, I would agree that Coach Holtman only likes to play about 8-9. But I would say our depth is pretty talented.

Baldwin and McDermott are 6 & 7

Kethan Savage is the our 8th who should be our 6th man. He is just getting the minutes as of last game due to a sickness. 

Nate Fowler (#9) would be our big man back up for the 4 & 5.

So I would say After Savage (#8), the #'s from our subs drop off considerably. 

If you only look at stats, Savage, has played only 4 games which is why his stats are skewed but he will contribute. Butler has great depth in the backcourt but I can agree that our front court is week with our young and raw talent (Fowler & Brunk). You will see Martin and McDermott play a stretch 4 at times.


----------



## Bluethunder

Got to agree with SSOM on this one, I don't really care one bit about this game.  It is just another game to me, and considering that we aren't going to be anywhere close to an at large bid, the whole rest of the non-conference slate doesn't interest me.  

All I care about right now is figuring out our rotations and getting ready for the Valley.  If we win this game, I will enjoy it as much as I enjoy any win we have.  If we lose, oh well.  All I hope for is that we continue to improve, the staff figures out who should be starting and who should be playing and we get ready for the conference season.

I don't consider us rivals to Butler, I don't know any players on their team other than Martin, I don't know who they have played or will play this season and I don't care.  I am at a work event this evening and won't be watching or listening.  I will probably jump on SP when I get home to see if we won or lost and then read up on the details tomorrow.


----------



## BrokerZ

Bluethunder said:


> I am at a work event this evening and won't be watching or listening.  I will probably jump on SP when I get home to see if we won or lost and then read up on the details tomorrow.



The game is tomorrow.  You may know that and just misspoke, or I just made your day now that you realize you'll get to watch the game after all.  Either way...it's a Wednesday night tip.


----------



## Southgrad07

Bluethunder said:


> Got to agree with SSOM on this one, I don't really care one bit about this game.  It is just another game to me, and considering that we aren't going to be anywhere close to an at large bid, the whole rest of the non-conference slate doesn't interest me.
> 
> All I care about right now is figuring out our rotations and getting ready for the Valley.  If we win this game, I will enjoy it as much as I enjoy any win we have.  If we lose, oh well.  All I hope for is that we continue to improve, the staff figures out who should be starting and who should be playing and we get ready for the conference season.
> 
> I don't consider us rivals to Butler, I don't know any players on their team other than Martin, I don't know who they have played or will play this season and I don't care.  I am at a work event this evening and won't be watching or listening.  I will probably jump on SP when I get home to see if we won or lost and then read up on the details tomorrow.



I agree and disagree. Seeing as we don't have a shot at an at large I agree that this game is not as important as a conference game. If the game doesn't help us win the conference tourney, secure an at large bid, or win the conference championship then it is downgraded in importance. However, this game is more important than the other non conference games remaining IMO. 

Rarely do we get a top 10-15 team on our home floor and a shot to give the season a shot in the arm emotionally. A win here would most certainly help attendance some and give our guys some needed confidence going forward. Also while BU is not a main rival anymore, it is always a major plus to beat one of the power conference in state schools that turn their noses up at us. Some always complain about the home schedule and its lack of big time teams...Well here one is, so the least we can do is enjoy it.


----------



## Bluethunder

BrokerZ said:


> The game is tomorrow.  You may know that and just misspoke, or I just made your day now that you realize you'll get to watch the game after all.  Either way...it's a Wednesday night tip.



Yup, realize that after I posted, but have a commitment that night too, along with the day after.  Probably part of why I haven't been too concerned about this game.  Between work commitments, Holiday events and kid events, I rarely know whether I am coming or going in December.

Play hard, play well, if we win, great!  If we lose, no shame.  Get better and get ready for the Valley.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

4Q_iu said:


> There ISN'T a reason to NOT play us.
> 
> Clink needs to lock isu-m, buttler and (possibly valpo) into long-term annual contracts.
> 
> And put em on SATURDAYs if you want legit attendance.




I totally agree!  If you recognize names of Duane Klueh and Tony Hinkle you understand and, most likely, agree with this.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Bluethunder said:


> Play hard, play well, if we win, great!  If we lose, no shame.  Get better and get ready for the Valley.



Correct, but let's get the W!


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Let's get the win in honor of Larry Bird's 60th birthday!!

http://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/si...rd.photos/images/larry-bird-indiana-state.jpg


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Butler is in Terre Haute tonight for whatever reason?! I guess because they are Butler and can afford to?! They were at Stables and staying at the Hilton.


----------



## Coach

Bulldawgfan said:


> Butler Fan here! couple of things to catch you guys up on....
> 
> 1. Butler Fans are worried about this game! Some are considering this a "trap" game. It hasn't been too long from our west trip so Butler might still be fatigue. Other fans worry about the team overseeing ISU and focusing on Cincy, & IU, and others are just worried that ISU is a good team in general that has the talent to beat Butler.
> 
> 2. Wideman and Chrabascz can get a little physical. Wideman will be physical on the boards and Chrabascz has some quality post moves. Brunk won't play much but Nate Fowler (So.) will play and could see a decent amount of offensive rebounds.
> 
> 3. Lewis, our once all-american point guard can pass and give people open shots. He is not a shoot first kinda guy. I do not know anything about your guards but if they are semi physical then 5'10 (if that) Lewis wont be a factor. Lewis' game fades going into Big East Play because of the physical play imo.
> 
> 4. Avery Woodson (aka Kellen Dunham 2.0) This guy has been shooting lights out and what has help Butler win a couple of games. Grad transfer from Memphis. Hope he is still hot.
> 
> 5. Kamar Baldwin (Fr) Point guard can play spot on defense and drive to the basket. Should come off the bench and be a huge factor.
> 
> 6. Kethan Savage. Another transfer senior that has been injured/illness and is slowly coming back. Had a good game last time on the court but still is a work in process.
> 
> 7. Kelan Martin is our top scoring and is very talented. Possibly NBA talent but he gets careless at times and if you frustrate him he could disappear.
> 
> 8. Sean Mcdermott is a lengthy skinny hustle guy that can shoot the 3 and grab some boards.
> 
> 9. Butlers Bench is pretty good. I don't not know who mentioned a weak bench but Savage, Baldwin, Sean Mcdermott, and Nate Folwer can all play a lot of minutes and contribute.
> 
> 10. I am excited for this game and wanted to tell you a little bit about Butlers team this year because of all the new faces they have. This is a different Butler team than in the past. Guards that can drive to the basket and have quick speed often beat us. So I hope ISU doesn't have one of those!
> 
> Great board! Not many teams have a good quality board like this one.
> 
> Also ESPN3? We should be on a real network. Should be a good game.



I would have expected a more glowing report for an undefeated ranked team. Almost sounds apologetic for how many weaknesses they have? But if you read it on the internet or lo and behold on a fan message board it must be true...........ha ha ha.


----------



## Southgrad07

Coach said:


> I would have expected a more glowing report for an undefeated ranked team. Almost sounds apologetic for how many weaknesses they have? But if you read it on the internet or lo and behold on a fan message board it must be true...........ha ha ha.



I'd say it was a very honest review of his team. I put more stock into a review like that compared to the guy who just rants on and on about how great the 11th man on the team is.


----------



## treeman

Gameday! Let's go Sycamores! Can't wait for tonight!


----------



## TreeTop

CBS SPORTS PREVIEW with quotes from both coaches...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/preview/NCAAB_20161207_BUTLER@INDST


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Line opened at +9.5 for us and has moved down to +9. 

I honestly expected higher.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Line opened at +9.5 for us and has moved down to +9.
> 
> I honestly expected higher.



It could easily be higher.  From the games I've seen this year, Butler is an excellent team.

I like our team, but we are going to have some weaknesses this year that have to be offset by defense and shooting.  Unfortunately, the shooting is not going to always be there.

I'm too lazy to look, but I think we have outshot, by FG%, almost every opponent this year?


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

Sycamores 74 Butler Brad Stevens 72


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Line opened at +9.5 for us and has moved down to +9.
> 
> I honestly expected higher.



I told you what the line was going to be... Sometimes I think I'm talking to a brick wall.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I told you what the line was going to be... Sometimes I think I'm talking to a brick wall.


Next time I see you, I'm going to kick you square in the kneecap.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Next time I see you, I'm going to kick you square in the kneecap.



I told you what the spread was going to be on freaking Monday... Here we are and the spread is 9. 

I'd expect a good crowd tonight too. 5,500 sounds enthralling.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Let's be honest Vegas doesn't want to touch the Sycamores right now 6-0 against the spread and it's Larry Legend's birthday. The sycamores cover 9 easy, lock of the century right now. Larry freaking Bird, I bet he is cheering on Butler though.


----------



## TreeTop

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> 5,500 sounds enthralling.



I think you're right, but I'm HOPING for 7K+.....we need lotsa walk ups!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Line opened at +9.5 for us and has moved down to +9.
> 
> I honestly expected higher.


Has moved up to +10 at most spots. It said it opened at +10 here but said +9.5 this morning. Anyhow, line is moving back the other way. The O/U 137.5 would be an interesting play. 

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/


----------



## Bally #50

If you are going to tonight's game, don't forget the Alumni Association's pre-game party at J. Gumbos (665 Wabash) from 5:00-6:30pm. Let's hope the MEAN Sycamores come to play (like those against the Cyclones) because if they do, this could be a great game! I will also bop in the Bally around 6:00pm for my post-pre-game.


----------



## anotherBUfan

While this is not the best Butler team to visit ISU. It is a solid squad. I will say that the consensus up here on our board is that is probably the deepest team Butler has ever had. We can actually go 10 or 11 deep. It is also one the most athletic teams overall we have enjoyed. Looking forward to heading down in a few hours. I am in favor of continuing to play ISU at least every now and then, although I would probably be in the minority. Best of luck to folks after tonight.


----------



## TreeTop

There is an embarrassingly large number of tix still available...

http://www1.ticketmaster.com/indian...ue&f_sessioncam=1&ab=m_efeat4101Mainv3desktop


----------



## TreeTop

As this is Lansing's last chance to beat Butler (for awhile), and seeing as he's never beaten them as a head coach...I think this is his year.

We won't win in a high scoring contest.

ISU 69
Butler 65

I'm hoping we get the same effort we got from TJ and Rickman as we did vs USU, and that Kessinger is able to put some sort of stamp (doesn't have to be a huge stamp) on the game.


----------



## TreeTop

Lansing interview earlier today...

https://soundcloud.com/1130thefan/ith-with-luke-martin-greg-lansing-previews-butler-showdown


----------



## Chief_Quabachi

Contemplating buying a ticket through TicketMaster for tonight's game. If I do, do I pick ticket up at the Will Call Window or print off a ticket. 

Thanks!!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Chief_Quabachi said:


> Contemplating buying a ticket through TicketMaster for tonight's game. If I do, do I pick ticket up at the Will Call Window or print off a ticket.
> 
> Thanks!!


The last time I bought off of TM was for the Creighton game and the lines were pretty long with walk ups and not well organized at will call. If time will be an issue, you probably want to print it.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> It could easily be higher.  From the games I've seen this year, Butler is an excellent team.
> 
> I like our team, but we are going to have some weaknesses this year that have to be offset by defense and shooting.  Unfortunately, the shooting is not going to always be there.
> 
> I'm too lazy to look, but I think we have outshot, by FG%, almost every opponent this year?


A good number. Ball State, UMSL, Iowa State, Stanford, Quin, NIU the 2nd time around and Utah State. The Stanford, Quin and USU games were by tenths of a percentage though.

Overall on the season we're shooting 43.9% to opponents 38.1%. I think Butler will be a different animal compared to anyone we've played though.


----------



## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> Overall on the season we're shooting 43.9% to opponents 38.1%. I think Butler will be a different animal compared to anyone we've played though.



I'd like to think that since Lansing is such a Defense guy, that we MAY be a slightly different animal on the defensive end than what Butler has seen.

May and slightly are the key words in that statement.

And yes, I'm aware that when they played Arizona, the Wildcats were ranked 8th in the country.

May and slightly.


----------



## BU_Milksteak

TreeTop said:


> I'd like to think that since Lansing is such a Defense guy, that we MAY be a slightly different animal on the defensive end than what Butler has seen.
> 
> May and slightly are the key words in that statement.
> 
> And yes, I'm aware that when they played Arizona, the Wildcats were ranked 8th in the country.
> 
> May and slightly.



Indiana State will be one of the better defenses we've played. In KenPom, you guys have the 61st most-efficient defense. Arizona's is 38th, Northwestern's is 52nd, Vanderbilt's is 82nd and Utah's is 83rd. So, you might be onto something. 

Conversely, Butler has the 17th-best defense in the country, the best you guys will have faced to date. :smile:

Looking forward to the game. Very nervous.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I'm pumped. I can't wait. I'm excited. I didn't know how to feel about the final outcome until now. 

65-59 Butler. Ugh


----------



## TreeTop

I'm gonna watch the game on delay (due to some other obligations), so if everyone could wait until about 2 hours after the game has ended to start posting about it here on SP, that'd be great.  Thanks.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Coach Lansing got a lot of airtime on WNDE this afternoon. Heard him on the drive from the office to the gym and then again two hours later from the gym home. Lots of selling of the program and good questions being asked surprisingly about how he recruits, the close losses, etc.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bell picks up 2 fouls within the 1st minute. Ugh TJ.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Guys looking crisp with the passing tonight.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 16 media timeout.

Sycamores 10, Bulldogs 9.


----------



## treeman

We look pretty dang good outside of the second chance opportunities we are giving them. If we can get a rebound we would be looking damn good.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Not sure about this lineup. Last possession nobody wanted to shoot it.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Niels with a clean block.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

This lineup doesn't work. SUBS!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 12 media timeout.

Sycamores 15, Bulldogs 12.


----------



## treeman

the fact that we are up 3 after that lineup that was out there is remarkable and win for the Sycamores


----------



## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> the fact that we are up 3 after that lineup that was out there is remarkable and win for the Sycamores


I think they were 1-7 shooting.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Rickman, Scott, EC, Niels and MVS out of the timeout.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

It's awesome to be playing at Hinkle tonight, refs.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> It's awesome to be playing at Hinkle tonight, refs.


Again.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 8 media timeout.

Sycamores 21, Bulldogs 18.


----------



## BrokerZ

I know Butler has shot the ball incredibly poorly, but we can hang with these guys.  So far I see no reason why we shouldn't remain in this game with a chance to win at the end. Need to keep up the intensity.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

HEY, WE GOT A CALL!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

That new call is bullshit. Anytime an offensive post puts their arm up, the defender is going to go right to that arm to draw the offensive call. So stupid.


----------



## BrokerZ

Is it just me or does Brandon Murphy get called on the post-position offensive foul A LOT.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

We used a token diamond press. The Butler board is complaining about the calls going against them.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreFan317 said:


> We used a token diamond press. The Butler board is complaining about the calls going against them.


They are out of their everloving minds.


----------



## BrokerZ

The more fouls on Wideman the better.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> The more fouls on Wideman the better.


He fouls on every hedge. He's never set and he is pushing to create separation.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 4 media timeout.

Sycamores 26, Bulldogs 23.


----------



## BrokerZ

Murphy padding the offensive rebound stats...nice.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

That last call on the Butler big looked like a bad call. I didn't see him push Murphy.


----------



## treeman

Murphy doesn't kknow how to react when the foul call is not on him :laugh:


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Murph, Niels, Franklin, Barnes and EC out of the TO.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Someone go take that IU sweatshirt off the dolt that is right behind Lansing every time they flash to him.


----------



## BrokerZ

Memo to other MVC teams: Hack-a-Murphy is a solid strategy.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Someone go take that IU sweatshirt off the dolt that is right behind Lansing every time they flash to him.



Yes! I almost took a screen shot of him to post here for future "what not to wear" references.


----------



## BrokerZ

Clemons is a GROWN ASS MAN!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Timeout ISU with 22.2 left. They should get the last shot here.

32-28 Sycamores. Let's get another bucket going into the half!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Sycamores lead the Bulldogs at halftime 32-28.


----------



## BrokerZ

Wow - I can't believ they didn't call a foul on Niels on that last play. We got very lucky with the no-call and the goaltending. Very lucky. That would have been a terrible way to end the half.


----------



## treeman

Defense has been on point for the us tonight! butler has hit some big 3 or else we'd be up 7-9 points at this point. We have to assume Martin will get his act together the second half and play better. We need to win those 50/50 balls and knock down shots when given an opportunity.


----------



## BrokerZ

treeman said:


> Defense has been on point for the us tonight! butler has hit some big 3 or else we'd be up 7-9 points at this point. We have to assume Martin will get his act together the second half and play better. We need to win those 50/50 balls and knock down shots when given an opportunity.



Definitely.  Another half like that and we're in great shape tonight. This is definitely a winnable game.


----------



## BallyPie

Not a bad half of basketball.........just need to keep the defensive intensity up.....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BallyPie said:


> Not a bad half of basketball.........just need to keep the defensive intensity up.....


Stay defensive and we need someone to make some big shots in the 2nd half.


----------



## Jason Svoboda




----------



## BrokerZ

We're currently outrebounding them which is astonishing. That may be a first for any half this year.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Notice how we limited the chucking of 3s in that first half against Butler.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

We just got a no call there. MVS his 45 right on the elbow.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Nice start to the half BS4!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Just like that, lead is gone. Defensive lapses and turnovers.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

QUIT FUCKING GOING UNDER THE SCREEN!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 16 media timeout.

Sycamores 42, Bulldogs 41.


----------



## treeman

it's sad on how we just outperformed butler and our lead has dwindled down to 1 after being up 8.....


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> QUIT FUCKING GOING UNDER THE SCREEN!



Butler lives at the three point line. Why we keep doing this I don't know. Just wide open threes.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Welp, that's how you do it. Nice little stretch on both ends has Butler take and build a 3 point lead.


----------



## BrokerZ

Butler has certainly turned up the defensive intensity.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Butler has certainly turned up the defensive intensity.


We also started settling on 3 point shots. Had 6 in the 1st half and already have 7 this half.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> We also started settling on 3 point shots. Had 6 in the 1st half and already have 7 this half.


Make that 9.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bell just doesn't have it tonight. He is flat footed and getting worked.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Under 12 media timeout.

Bulldogs 50, Sycamores 47.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Under 12 media timeout.
> 
> Bulldogs 50, Sycamores 47.



At least we fought back a little there. It could have gotten away from us very quickly.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> At least we fought back a little there. It could have gotten away from us very quickly.


Easily.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bullshit bailout call there for Butlah.

Under 8 media timeout.

Bulldogs 52, Sycamores 50.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

This is with the longer Rickman could really help us out.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Big shot by Scott. Tied up.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Gotta hit your free throws guys.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Scott with back-to-back buckets and Butler calls a TO.

Sycamores 60, Bulldogs 57.


----------



## treeman

Scott 5 points away from a 1000. Talk about a great game to do it in when we pull off the win!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Can we win the last 4 minutes?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Scott, Paige, EC, MVS and Murph out of the TO.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Lansing is fiiiiired up.


----------



## BrokerZ

COME ON GUYS FINISH THIS GAME!!!


----------



## BrokerZ

MVS's shooting in this game has been terrific. Big fucking shots by that guy.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Someone needs to hit a big shot here.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Timeout Butler with 1:46 to go.

Sycamores 68, Bulldogs 64.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Someone needs to hit a big shot here.


Got one. We need 2 more!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bad time for a travel call. Ugh.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Timeout ISU with 56.4 left.

Sycamores 68, Bulldogs 66. 

17 left on the clock.


----------



## treeman

Hold on baby!!!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> Hold on baby!!!


Yep, need someone to make a big one here.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Yep, need someone to make a big one here.


MVS!


----------



## treeman

MVS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

MVS with his biggest shot as a Sycamore!

Timeout Butler.

Sycamores 71, Bulldogs 66. 

37.7 left.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

I imagine they'll come right back to 45 here looking for a hoop and foul. I would, he's been absolutely unstoppable.

We're going to need one more big shot unless they go to fouling.


----------



## treeman

MVS has earned the Sycamore uniform tonight!


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> MVS!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Butler foul after their 3. Shot clock is now off. Need 2 more for bonus.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Scott fouled again. 26.9. 

Here comes another most likely.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Barnes fouled with 25.1 left.

Big shots coming for the true freshman.

And the announcer just gave him the jinx.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Ugh.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Clean strip by Clemons. 

Butler going to tie it up now. Fun stuff, stripes.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Scott fouled with 0.8 left. 

Can he hit these to win it?


----------



## treeman

make the first, miss the second on purpose?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Refs going to the monitor. Looks like they're going to put time back on the clock. 

1.5 will be on the clock.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> make the first, miss the second on purpose?


Yep, I would.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Sycamores win! Sycamores win!

72-71 good guys. Fans getting their court storming moment.


----------



## treeman

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## BrokerZ

Biggest win by our program in quite a while.


----------



## pbutler218

Awesome win!!! Never count these guys out!!!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

This makes the Iowa State screw job a little more palatable. This team is better than 5-4.


----------



## BallyPie

Great win!!!.....MVS with huge 3s!!!...

I think we've shown enough to say we legit contenders to win the Valley!!!


----------



## BallyPie

Jason Svoboda said:


> This makes the Iowa State screw job a little more palatable. This team is better than 5-4.



We've got to be the best 5-4 team in the country......I'll check Sagarin tomorrow to validate that.....


----------



## ISUCC

Great win! Our cardiac Sycamores do it! GREAT to send Butler back to Indy with a loss, and knowing we'll probably never play them again this win makes it even sweeter!


----------



## bent20

Awesome victory! Two thoughts, one glass half full, other half empty. Half full - if we were going to beat a top 25 team glad it was Butler not Iowa State. Half empty - Damn, we should have won both!!!!!!!


----------



## BallyPie

if you think about it....we're just a few shots away from being on the "at large" radar......


----------



## treeman

BallyPie said:


> if you think about it....we're just a few shots away from being on the "at large" radar......



And a few shots away from being 2-7. Crazy how small the margin has been fprnus this year.

Regardless.....GREAT WIN TONIGHT MEN!


----------



## Gotta Hav

I'm just enjoying watching the banner scores for the TOP 25 TEAMS on ESPN, and now they're talking about the ISU win during the Davidson vs. North Carolina game.


----------



## bent20

End of the game, kind of fun to watch over and over.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2086/butler-bulldogs


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Ho Ho Ho! 

Cheers tonight fellas, enjoy it! Doesn't happen too often that you knock off a top 15 team in the nation in the Hulman Center in front of a pretty awesome crowd. 

On a side note... My girlfriend and I (a Ball State grad) have been dating for several months now this is the first game she has been able to go to with me. I think this was a good first game for her to attend to get a good taste of just how I operate.


----------



## blueblazer

bent20 said:


> End of the game, kind of fun to watch over and over.
> 
> http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2086/butler-bulldogs





SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Ho Ho Ho!
> 
> Cheers tonight fellas, enjoy it! Doesn't happen too often that you knock off a top 15 team in the nation in the Hulman Center in front of a pretty awesome crowd.
> 
> On a side note... My girlfriend and I (a Ball State grad) have been dating for several months now this is the first game she has been able to go to with me. I think this was a good first game for her to attend to get a good taste of just how I operate.



Darn shame you couldn't get up for the game......I was hoping she would see at your best....lol


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

MVS hit some huge shots in the last 5 minutes. I think he hit 3 straight 3's to put this game on the rocks. 

BScott was a monster tonight. To anyone who wants to doubt or be critical of the talent of that young man - I have no words. Kid has been putting the ball in the basket since he showed up on campus and his some huge buckets tonight with the Butler D all over him.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Ho Ho Ho!
> 
> Cheers tonight fellas, enjoy it! Doesn't happen too often that you knock off a top 15 team in the nation in the Hulman Center in front of a pretty awesome crowd.
> 
> On a side note... My girlfriend and I (a Ball State grad) have been dating for several months now this is the first game she has been able to go to with me. I think this was a good first game for her to attend to get a good taste of just how I operate.



Sounds like a keeper my friend!

But you should have rushed the court with us!!


----------



## ISUCC

we actually got 2 articles in the Indy Star tonight for the win

From Doyel
http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...-another-mid-major-wont-give-ground/94951988/

and David Woods

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...07/indiana-state-stuns-butler-72-71/94951940/


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Sounds like a keeper my friend!
> 
> But you should have rushed the court with us!!



haha I'm glad you did man, you've earned it as an alum, Terre Haute lifer, season ticket holder etc. etc. Always a good night to be a Sycamore but man tonight was a fun time!! Love it.


----------



## Jason Svoboda




----------



## anotherBUfan

Congrats!  You deserved to win tonight and were the tougher team without question through out the ballgame. We did have several players that never got off the bus it appeared. Best of luck the rest of the season...


----------



## Jason Svoboda




----------



## meistro

Jason Svoboda said:


>



Good stuff here.


----------



## meistro

treeman said:


> make the first, miss the second on purpose?



We said the same thing and looked down and saw coach tell Scott to miss.


----------



## meistro

Great win tonight and just a really good college basketball game. I thought Murphy had a heckuva game tonight especially rebounding. Needs to keep working on his touch around the basket.


----------



## hans1950

This team is tougher than any in recent memory. They refused to fold when Butler made it's run and just out hustled them all night. MVS came to play and shot better than I've ever seen. Murphy came in after 2 silly fouls by TJ in the first minute and battled all night long. Paige defended Martin, Cleamons is the glue and Scott is all MVC every night. Great crowd, more students than I've seen for a long time. Amazing how many of them don't have Sycamore blue to wear though. Looks like they believe in themselves, hope this translates into a great conference run. Just a fun group to root for!


----------



## meistro

This team has the potential to be a really good defensive team. I thought Lansing had a good game plan and with the exception of some strange line ups a couple times, coached a good game. after a couple years of testing the waters and putting in his time, I think Lansing is more focused on making this team the best he can and seems to be content on being here. Just seems from his comments, better recruiting and willingness to change styles a little that he may be coming into his own.


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Ho Ho Ho!
> 
> My girlfriend and I (a Ball State grad) have been dating for several months now this is the first game she has been able to go to with me.* I think this was a good first game for her to attend to get a good taste of just how I operate.*


*

OMG...I thought that SHOCK TREATMENT was a thing of the past!:sos:*


----------



## BankShot

anotherBUfan said:


> Congrats!  You deserved to win tonight and were the tougher team without question through out the ballgame. We did have several players that never got off the bus it appeared. Best of luck the rest of the season...


 
Hope that you don't try to market the wine from those "sour grapes" in Terre Haute. Those players "got off the bus"...they just failed to get _out of the street_ near that statue @ 8th & Cherry and got ran over by a "BIGGER BUS!"


----------



## OX 92

Yeah.  Lansing has to go.  We should have won by ... lol.  Awesome win.  I have been texting our fight song to my Butler friends .  Don't play them again till?? So I figure it's safe to lay it on thick.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## treeman

While it sucks and pisses me off, I do love thinking "Well...they are never going to play us again."


----------



## the johnner

GIGANTIC WIN!!! Keep it going. CONGRATS!


----------



## TreeTop

When Butler went on that 16-2 run, I was all, "Sonuva! Freakin' Butler is going blow this game out of the water."

But tonight proved more than any other night (including Utah State), that this team doesn't quit and doesn't panic!

Feeling so good about the rest of this season.

Brenton Scott can be as cocky as he wants, I love it!  (just don't take it one step too far :biggrin


----------



## treeman

TreeTop said:


> When Butler went on that 16-2 run, I was all, "Sonuva! Freakin' Butler is going blow this game out of the water."



Was thinking the same exact thing. Scott's lay-up to stop the bleeding was a HUGE basket and let us get some composure back.


----------



## Stickboy46

Great win guys.  This is the marquee win for the MVC so far this year.  Its too bad you guys are a combined 10 pts away from being ranked at this point.  I'm definitely scared about the 12/28 game to kick off the Valley season.  You guys have looked way better than I figured coming into the year (though shouldn't be surprised since that's what Lansing does  )


----------



## TreeTop

<iframe src="http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=18232216&endcard=false" allowfullscreen frameborder="0"></iframe>

For fun's sake.


----------



## BrokerZ

Remind me...if it lasts for more than 4 hours is that when you call the doctor?  Because I'm well past that.


----------



## Coach

Really welcomed the professional announcers at tonight's game. Lots of games I have to close the audio so I don't have to listen to the juvenile imitation Dick Vitale's or whomever.


----------



## BlueSycamore

BrokerZ said:


> Remind me...if it lasts for more than 4 hours is that when you call the doctor?  Because I'm well past that.



I know what you mean............................ER's could be busy today...............lol.


----------



## TreeTop

Coach said:


> Really welcomed the professional announcers at tonight's game. Lots of games I have to close the audio so I don't have to listen to the juvenile imitation Dick Vitale's or whomever.



Yeah, it was a breath of fresh announcing air when color announcer Rich Zvosec referred to our games in the Advocare Invite as our trip out west.

Did his homework.

I also loved it when he referred to the Illinois State vs Tulsa game as the biggest MVC game of the night.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

The amount of rustled jimmies by older folks on social media surrounding the court storm is mind boggling to me.


----------



## BlueSycamore

Which was the hardest for me to believe? Beating Butler or Larry Bird reaching his 60th birthday? No contest "Bird is the word".


----------



## BlueSycamore

meistro said:


> We said the same thing and looked down and saw coach tell Scott to miss.



Scott says he tried to hit the second shot even though he heard Coach tell him to miss it which could have let Butler throw a long pass & catch & shoot and win the game for THEM. Also after watching the replay several times he could have conceivably fouled going for the rebound after he missed...........neither were heads up plays.  As I hear often "The Good Scott/The Bad Scott" is always just a hair apart.


----------



## BrokerZ

BlueSycamore said:


> Scott says he tried to hit the second shot even though he heard Coach tell him to miss it which could have let Butler throw a long pass & catch & shoot and win the game for THEM. Also after watching the replay several times he could have conceivably fouled going for the rebound after he missed...........neither were heads up plays.  As I hear often "The Good Scott/The Bad Scott" is always just a hair apart.



We won the game so this is all a moot point, but there's hardly a chance that Butler would have been able to set anything up off of the inbounds if Scott had made the second free throw.  They had no timeouts left at that point and they had 4 of their 5 players around the block for rebounding.  You only have 5 seconds to inbounds the ball.  Bottom line, it would have been a disorganized inbounds and heave no matter what.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> We won the game so this is all a moot point, but there's hardly a chance that Butler would have been able to set anything up off of the inbounds if Scott had made the second free throw.  They had no timeouts left at that point and they had 4 of their 5 players around the block for rebounding.  You only have 5 seconds to inbounds the ball.  Bottom line, it would have been a disorganized inbounds and heave no matter what.


Yep. With 1.5 left and it taking 0.2-0.3 for the ball to leave your hand, if they were going to hit a 3/4 court shot, it wasn't meant to be.


----------



## treeman

I think what I love most about this win is that it'll be part of ISU history. And that the current bunch on roster finally have (at least) that one game that they could look back on their careers and say that they were apart of. We haven't had a win like this since the "Odum Era" and i'm sure Scott, MVS, Clemons, etc. are pumped to finally put their names on a program win like many of the great Sycamores have. It almost makes it sweeter knowing that Butler isn't going to play us for a long time....just like IU.....just like ND....


----------



## SycamoreFan317

Gigantic win for the program, but we need to establish consistency with the same effort night after night. Starts Sunday with the Hilltoppers.


----------



## sycamorebacker

BlueSycamore said:


> Scott says he tried to hit the second shot even though he heard Coach tell him to miss it which could have let Butler throw a long pass & catch & shoot and win the game for THEM. Also after watching the replay several times he could have conceivably fouled going for the rebound after he missed...........neither were heads up plays.  As I hear often "The Good Scott/The Bad Scott" is always just a hair apart.



I'm disappointed to hear that.  That's being cocky, arrogant, and insubordinate; and he could have lost the game.  Lots of teams make shots in 1.5 sec.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> I'm disappointed to hear that.  That's being cocky, arrogant, and subordinate; and he could have lost the game.  Lots of teams make shots in 1.5 sec.



The future President of the United States was all of those things also and could have lost... 

He didn't. Scott didn't. The Sycamores didn't. 

Tongue in cheek comment maybe?? How will we ever know. It's ridiculous to dissect the comments of a 20 something year old kid that just helped his team beat a top 15 team. Be happy with the win because you don't win that game without him and his cockiness, arrogance and insubordination.


----------



## 4Q_iu

ISUCC said:


> we actually got 2 articles in the Indy Star tonight for the win
> 
> From Doyel
> http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...-another-mid-major-wont-give-ground/94951988/
> 
> and David Woods
> 
> http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...07/indiana-state-stuns-butler-72-71/94951940/



Ace Hunt needs to DEMAND Woods retract this lie:

_"..Indiana State (5-4) beat a Top 25opponent for the first time since a victory over another 15th-ranked andunbeaten Butler team, 72-64, on Dec. 9, 2006. Since then, the Sycamores hadbeen 0-9 against the Top 25...."_<o></o>_
_
Last night was the 5th time a Lansing team has defeated a Top 25 team, at home or on the road...

I'm sure the  IndyStar will refuse and claim AP as the source of the lie...

Great Win for the Trees --- too bad the Star can't get the facts straight OR that ISU won't demand a correction


----------



## BlueSycamore

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The future President of the United States was all of those things also and could have lost...
> 
> He didn't. Scott didn't. The Sycamores didn't.
> 
> Tongue in cheek comment maybe?? How will we ever know. It's ridiculous to dissect the comments of a 20 something year old kid that just helped his team beat a top 15 team. Be happy with the win because you don't win that game without him and his cockiness, arrogance and insubordination.



Hey Basketball Guru...oops sorry SSOM just pointing out a couple of the "little things" that could have given Butler an opportunity to win and we all know they don't need any gifts from anyone. Yes they could have got a lot better 3 pt or even a 2 pt attempt attempt if throwing in & running along the baseline than the shot they ultimately got or we could have committed a foul defending their shot and don't disregard Scott going for the rebound after his miss among four Butler players.  Could have easily committed a foul & gave two or three free throws at the other end with no time left.  Lots of replays out there. Go look at the rebound attempt after his shot again & tell me why he even needed to chance it?  It was a great win & he played a great game overall but those were both needless acts that could have sent all of us in a stupor rather than today's celebratory mood. It's not all roses my friend.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BlueSycamore said:


> Hey Basketball Guru...oops sorry SSOM just pointing out a couple of the "little things" that could have given Butler an opportunity to win and we all know they don't need any gifts from anyone. Yes they could have got a lot better 3 pt attempt if throwing in & running along the baseline than the shot they ultimately got and don't disregard Scott going for the rebound after his miss among four Butler players.  Could have easily committed a foul & gave two or three free throws at the other end with no time left.  Lots of replays out there. Go look at the rebound attempt after his shot again & tell me why he even needed to chance it?  It was a great win & he played a great game overall but those were both stupid actions.



Why are you coming at me?! You had 3 other people respond to you directly? I had a comment typed up earlier for you and decided to let it go... Then when Backer came back I decided to get into the fray! 

I mean I appreciate you all always declaring me a guru and all these nice things - I really do. But it's getting a little out of hand, we have some pretty smart basketball fans on this forum.

Your point out that we "could" have lost had he made that free throw with 1.5 seconds left. I could point out about 30 other things that happened last night or didn't happen that "could" have changed the outcome of that game and they all happened with more time on the clock than 1.5 seconds. He hit the game winning freethrow I'm going to go ahead and focus on that. It's all roses for me, all roses all the time!


----------



## TreeTop

4Q_iu said:


> Ace Hunt needs to DEMAND Woods retract this lie:
> 
> _"..Indiana State (5-4) beat a Top 25opponent for the first time since a victory over another 15th-ranked andunbeaten Butler team, 72-64, on Dec. 9, 2006. Since then, the Sycamores hadbeen 0-9 against the Top 25...."_<o></o>_
> _
> Last night was the 5th time a Lansing team has defeated a Top 25 team, at home or on the road...
> 
> I'm sure the  IndyStar will refuse and claim AP as the source of the lie...
> 
> Great Win for the Trees --- too bad the Star can't get the facts straight OR that ISU won't demand a correction



I saw that too and was very annoyed.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The future President of the United States was all of those things also and could have lost...
> 
> He didn't. Scott didn't. The Sycamores didn't.
> 
> Tongue in cheek comment maybe?? How will we ever know. It's ridiculous to dissect the comments of a 20 something year old kid that just helped his team beat a top 15 team. Be happy with the win because you don't win that game without him and his cockiness, arrogance and insubordination.



I guess I shouldn't make a big deal about it, but I believe in discipline.  One time I had a batter shake off a sign when I was coaching 3rd base and they were on the bench for the rest of the game.  Players MUST obey coaches the same as employees MUST obey their bosses.  

And no, it was not a tongue-in-cheek.


----------



## BlueSycamore

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Why are you coming at me?! You had 3 other people respond to you directly? I had a comment typed up earlier for you and decided to let it go... Then when Backer came back I decided to get into the fray!
> 
> I mean I appreciate you all always declaring me a guru and all these nice things - I really do. But it's getting a little out of hand, we have some pretty smart basketball fans on this forum.
> 
> Your point out that we "could" have lost had he made that free throw with 1.5 seconds left. I could point out about 30 other things that happened last night or didn't happen that "could" have changed the outcome of that game and they all happened with more time on the clock than 1.5 seconds. He hit the game winning freethrow I'm going to go ahead and focus on that. It's all roses for me, all roses all the time!



It is your sweet personality on the keyboard that provokes me to respond directly to you at times.  You can dish it out but have a lot of trouble taking any criticism of your comments.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Yep. With 1.5 left and it taking 0.2-0.3 for the ball to leave your hand, if they were going to hit a 3/4 court shot, it wasn't meant to be.



The point is they could have passed it down to the 3 line and 1.5 sec is plenty of time to shoot a jumper.


----------



## TreeTop

By the end of this season there will be two games on our schedule that people will talk about as upsets this year.....NIU and Quinnipiac!  Hey-O!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BlueSycamore said:


> It is your sweet personality on the keyboard that provokes me to respond directly to you at times.  You can dish it out but have a lot of trouble taking any criticism of your comments.



Why because I respond back to people or I defend my stance is that why? I enjoy colorful exchanges with people on here, it makes this enjoyable for me. Probably my favorite person on this forum to discuss things with is Backer because he is almost always civil, he always stands behind his comments, he responds promptly and he and I almost always see it from a different perspective - I enjoy the heck out of that. I don't think you will find too many posts where I ever personally attack anyone on here or degrade them. You are pretty good at reading into peoples comments, clearly based on how you read into Scott's post game remarks. I shouldn't be surprised that you've been able to discern that I can't take any criticism - you have many talents my friend!


----------



## niklz62

so are we gonna be good or will this be the game we compare to beating Illinois State in football?  we are 10 pts from being undefeated.  football was 7pts from being 7-4 and in the playoffs


----------



## TreeTop

niklz62 said:


> so are we gonna be good or will this be the game we compare to beating Illinois State in football?  we are 10 pts from being undefeated.  football was 7pts from being 7-4 and in the playoffs



We are gonna be good.

Feels different than previous seasons.


----------



## BrokerZ

niklz62 said:


> so are we gonna be good or will this be the game we compare to beating Illinois State in football?  we are 10 pts from being undefeated.  football was 7pts from being 7-4 and in the playoffs



Good question, and I think a lot of that depends on how we play against WKU.  WKU, per Sagarin, is 246 in the country.  They are not good, but we've lost to worse teams this year (see: Quinnipiac).  If we come out with the same intensity and play as tough, unselfish and organized as we did against Butler, we'll beat WKU by double-digits.  If we rest on our laurels, we may be in for a big surprise.

It's how we handle the non-Butler games that will tell me how good we really are.  We've clearly shown we can hang with just about anybody by our performances against Iowa State, Stanford and Butler, but we can't let up for anyone.


----------



## ISU_TREE_FAN

Still bleeding whining & crying over "The Butler Way" today. Love it!

http://butlerhoops.com/forum/index.php?forums/butler-basketball.5/


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Online version now corrected.— David Woods (@DavidWoods007) December 8, 2016


----------



## Bluethunder

Got home late last night and didn't check the score.  Decided to just read up on the message board.  

Nice to get a win, especially if we want to finish with a .500 record. Sounds like we played very hard and were a tough team last night, which is all I asked for.  I had said before I just wanted to see a good effort and the team getting better before the Valley season starts, mission accomplished.

Glad to see MVS find his stroke, and how about Murphy with 10 rebounds?  

It looks like Butler is one of those teams that we seem to match up well with.  They don't have a lot of height and don't rebound well, so one of our biggest weaknesses wasn't a weakness.

Watched the second half this morning before work, really surprised by how bad they looked with Martin.  They seem to run too many things through him (or at least did this game, this was the only game I have seen of Butler this year, and probably the last) and actually looked better when he was out of the game.  He doesn't have a great handle and he seemed to be trying to do too much last night, while others stood and watched him.  They moved the ball better and played better when he was out.  

Glad we got the win, hopefully we play just as hard on Sunday.


----------



## TreeTop

Bluethunder said:


> Nice to get a win, especially if we want to finish with a .500 record.



Yes, we're all hoping to finish with a .500 record.


----------



## Bluethunder

TreeTop said:


> Yes, we're all hoping to finish with a .500 record.



Should have said above .500 record, my apologies.....

and I also forgot to mention, could have done without the students rushing the floor.  Didn't really think it was worth all of that.  I don't really care, and am glad the students came out and had fun and it isn't something I will lose sleep over, but still didn't think beating Butler warranted rushing the floor.


----------



## BankShot

Bluethunder said:


> Should have said above .500 record, my apologies.....
> 
> and I also forgot to mention, could have done without the students rushing the floor.  Didn't really think it was worth all of that.  I don't really care, and am glad the students came out and had fun and it isn't something I will lose sleep over, but still didn't think beating Butler warranted rushing the floor.



Yes, I had similar thoughts...then reflected on how many 'Napster kids go to ISU and likely have HS friends @ Butler - hard to control the "payback" mentality! Yes, I think the Butler game means more than we might think, at least to the ISU kids from the Indy area.


----------



## meistro

ISU_TREE_FAN said:


> Still bleeding whining & crying over "The Butler Way" today. Love it!
> 
> http://butlerhoops.com/forum/index.php?forums/butler-basketball.5/



Interesting, they have some d bags but also some objective fans. I'm surprised some people questioning the foul on Scott at the end. The replay I saw showed him clearly getting hit. I thought the officiating was as usual inconsistent on both sides. Some times letting rough stuff go and other times not.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

meistro said:


> Interesting, they have some d bags but also some objective fans. I'm surprised some people questioning the foul on Scott at the end. The replay I saw showed him clearly getting hit. I thought the officiating was as usual inconsistent on both sides. Some times letting rough stuff go and other times not.


Same as ours or any fan base. If they want to complain, we could easily bring up how they whistled Bell and Murphy for the same things they let Wideman and 45 do to establish post position when they made their run. Wideman, specifically, should have had about 12 fouls called on him because every time he hedged the high screen, he'd move into the guy fighting through and on some of the occasions he would push with his arms. In the end, there was only a 1 foul separation. 

The bottom line is this was a hard fought game that was damn near down the middle and while they made one more FT than we did, we made one more bucket than them and that's the 1 point difference.


----------



## Fife

Why is it that no more power five schools will be coming to the Hulman Center?  I know the Big 10 isn't playing any more FCS teams but did that extend to basketball as well? And what about the other conferences?  Say it ain't so!


----------



## sycamorebacker

Fife said:


> Why is it that no more power five schools will be coming to the Hulman Center?  I know the Big 10 isn't playing any more FCS teams but did that extend to basketball as well? And what about the other conferences?  Say it ain't so!



Are you talking about the Star?  I thought that was a joke that now none will want to play us because they are big fat chickens.


----------



## Fife

sycamorebacker said:


> Are you talking about the Star?  I thought that was a joke that now none will want to play us because they are big fat chickens.



It was mentioned in Coach's post game and I guess I read it on here or somewhere else.


----------



## Southgrad07

meistro said:


> Interesting, they have some d bags but also some objective fans. I'm surprised some people questioning the foul on Scott at the end. The replay I saw showed him clearly getting hit. I thought the officiating was as usual inconsistent on both sides. Some times letting rough stuff go and other times not.



I mean every board has their irrational fans (ours included) ...however, for no one to mention that the Scott call was a must after the clean strip called a foul on ev the play before is mindblogging. You don't get a gift foul and then get to complain about that foul.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

It's early but I'd like to point something out to you all. A lot has been made (rightfully so) of the rebounding prowess of Clemons - dude is a monster! Right now (and it's early) but Scott leads this team in rebounding after last night at 5.8 per game and Clemons is at 5.3. Pretty impressive what they are both doing on the glass but just wanted to point out that Scott seems to have really expanded his game this year. He's also taking really good care of the ball take away the Iowa State game.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Fife said:


> Why is it that no more power five schools will be coming to the Hulman Center?  I know the Big 10 isn't playing any more FCS teams but did that extend to basketball as well? And what about the other conferences?  Say it ain't so!


Because they look at their non-conference as a way to pad their win totals knowing they're going to drop games in conference play. It's all eventually about seeding in the end or hitting that 20-24 win mark to get into post season play. 

Why would you travel to Terre Haute to play us when you can schedule a Jacksonville or South Carolina State at home. Additionally, with more of these holiday tournaments, they look to play their tougher games on neutral courts.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> It's early but I'd like to point something out to you all. A lot has been made (rightfully so) of the rebounding prowess of Clemons - dude is a monster! Right now (and it's early) but Scott leads this team in rebounding after last night at 5.8 per game and Clemons is at 5.3. Pretty impressive what they are both doing on the glass but just wanted to point out that Scott seems to have really expanded his game this year. He's also taking really good care of the ball take away the Iowa State game.



Last night, several times, he went after the rebound over a Butler player.  Very aggressive and strong/athletic looking.  Every game I see some players doing things I didn't know they could do.  MVS's defense.  Murphy jumping.  Scott passing.  Even though Q and Franklin aren't racking up big stats, I think they both show quickness, shooting ability, and the EFFORT/DESIRE to play TEAM basketball. 
I think our 3 bigs are all progressing so that we might have our 3 dependable bigs that we thought we would have.


----------



## AzHoopsjunkie

Anything that generates some enthusiasm in the mausoleum that is the Hulman Center is to be welcomed IMHO. When I watch other home fans supporting their teams with excitement (see AZ Republic article re: Pitino's reaction to GCU's fans), I am green with envy.  The HC "crowd" usually looks like a bunch of folks waiting for a root canal. I enjoyed watching the kids having fun with last night's win and hope it helps build some excitement for The Valley season.


----------



## Fife

'





Jason Svoboda said:


> Because they look at their non-conference as a way to pad their win totals knowing they're going to drop games in conference play. It's all eventually about seeding in the end or hitting that 20-24 win mark to get into post season play.
> 
> Why would you travel to Terre Haute to play us when you can schedule a Jacksonville or South Carolina State at home. Additionally, with more of these holiday tournaments, they look to play their tougher games on neutral courts.


I'm going to look at this as a positive then... we are getting more respect.


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## niklz62

I think we should storm the court every game and then when there is a big win like this we could just sit in our seats in complete silence.


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## BankShot

sycamorebacker said:


> ...I think our 3 bigs are all progressing so that we might have our 3 dependable bigs that we thought we would have.



Will be interesting to see if BK is "pumped" for this game, since WKU, UE & ISU were his final 3 in recruiting. Frankly, it's clear that the loss of the last half of his HS season and last yr. recovery RS has taken a big chuck out of his timing & court awareness. Big difference in MVC & Corydon HS. I do look for him to become a factor late this season, when both stamina and perception have come to fruition.


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## treeman

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Scott seems to have really expanded his game this year.



+1

Scott has seemed to take a page from the "Devonte Brown play book" with some of his drive and finishes at the rim this year. Scott is a great shooter with anything from 15' and in. His 3-point shooting seems to be his weakness offensively this year and even that isn't much of a weakness. Every time that kid shoots, I think it's going in, and so does he. 

For the old timers out there, when was the last time we had a true scorer like this? I'm sure Marty Simmons is kicking himself for not landing this kid.


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## sycamorebacker

treeman said:


> For the old timers out there, when was the last time we had a true scorer like this? I'm sure Marty Simmons is kicking himself for not landing this kid.



I would say Carl Nicks or Menser.  He's pretty unique for us.  I knew that when I saw him at the Top 40.  None of our recruits in the Top 40 have come close to him as a scoring guard except Menser.  Menser could have scored much more if he had not played with Renn, Green, and Block. 
Of course, I saw JO drop almost 40 against Ben Davis and Carmel, but he did that without shooting. :lol:
Obviously, JO was primarily a PG.


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## 4Q_iu

TreeTop said:


> I saw that too and was very annoyed.




Looks like they updated their error...

I also believe Lansing has now tied Hodges' in "Wins vs Ranked Opponents"

The 1978-79 team (Hodges) went 3-1 vs. ranked teams
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana-state/1979-schedule.html

The 1980-81 team (Hodges) went 1-0 vs. ranked teams
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana-state/1981-schedule.html

The 1981-82 team (Hodges) went 1-1 vs. ranked teams
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana-state/1982-schedule.html


Perhaps the discrepancy is between the Coaches' Poll and the Media Poll...

At the end of the day, today's Star seems to screw up far more than in the past...  at least when it comes to ISU and the Fightin' Trees...


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## meistro

I was listening to a few minutes of Dan Dakich today and his guest was Kelan Martin. At the end Dakich asks him if he could choose a team to play at the end of the year for the national championship, who would it be. His answer, Indiana State! Dakich was obviously surprised. Glad they left the Haute upset about that loss. Would be nice for our guys to get back to playing the way we did against Butler.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

meistro said:


> I was listening to a few minutes of Dan Dakich today and his guest was Kelan Martin. At the end Dakich asks him if he could choose a team to play at the end of the year for the national championship, who would it be. His answer, Indiana State! Dakich was obviously surprised. Glad they left the Haute upset about that loss. Would be nice for our guys to get back to playing the way we did against Butler.



Yeah as much as I would be OK with Playing Butler for a national title we've already poved we are better than them. On to better things. 

Give me Tom Izzo's Michigan State's Spartans. We owe them and the headlines would be much better. Plus I just don't give a damn about butler.


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## Southgrad07

meistro said:


> I was listening to a few minutes of Dan Dakich today and his guest was Kelan Martin. At the end Dakich asks him if he could choose a team to play at the end of the year for the national championship, who would it be. His answer, Indiana State! Dakich was obviously surprised. Glad they left the Haute upset about that loss. Would be nice for our guys to get back to playing the way we did against Butler.



If only our own guys showed having that nasty taste of defeat  in their mouth bothered them that much! Love that comment as a competitor.


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