# 2023-2024 Eligibility Chart



## Jason Svoboda

*Senior Eligibility (2)*
G Zach Hobbs
G Xavier Bledson

*Junior Eligibility (3)*
G Julian Larry
F Jayson Kent
G Masen Miller

*Sophomore Eligiblity (3)*
G Robert Martin III
G Cameron Crawford *
F Robbie Avila

*Freshman Eligiblity (4)*
G Eli Shetlar
F Jaden Daughtery
F Cameron Manyawu
C Derek Vorst
G Jaden Schertz ! *
G Isaac Homes ! *

*Legend*
* Denotes Redshirt
# Denotes Medical Redshirt
! Denotes Walk-On


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Need another big.


----------



## dino

Wonder how many more freshman they plan on signing?  A lot of offers at various positions over the last few months. Will be interesting to see how much retention there will be for next year. I’m gonna guess close to 100% return. I believe that leaves only 3 more spots for freshman or transfer portal additions.  Almost not worth thinking about at this point but the eligibility chart has me wondering…


----------



## Jason Svoboda

dino said:


> Wonder how many more freshman they plan on signing?  A lot of offers at various positions over the last few months. Will be interesting to see how much retention there will be for next year. I’m gonna guess close to 100% return. I believe that leaves only 3 more spots for freshman or transfer portal additions.  Almost not worth thinking about at this point but the eligibility chart has me wondering…



Well based on above, we have 9 under scholarship which leaves 4 more spots. Depending on how Miller plays, he could potentially earn one of those. I think they'd likely do that to push a ship down to future classes -- you never want to have to go after 6 guys in a class.

So if that happens, that leaves 3 openings. Thinking about that and how quickly Avila progresses, I think you likely want to see if you can get a transfer big to pair with him, one more HSer and the the last one is a wildcard to be used on BPA either HSer/JuCO/transfer that can help team based on where HCJS sees the squad and needs.


----------



## pbutler218

Cam Crawford wasn't dressed last night. Is he redshirting? Also, what is the status of Rob Martin?


----------



## sycamorebacker

I've said on here before that Martin would NOT redshirt, but based on how Gibson and Larry looked last night, I've changed my mind.

And we still do not know what Holmes looks like.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

pbutler218 said:


> Cam Crawford wasn't dressed last night. Is he redshirting? Also, what is the status of Rob Martin?



Sounds like most of the team is sharing a virus. I'd wait a couple weeks to make any determination.


----------



## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> Sounds like most of the team is sharing a virus. I'd wait a couple weeks to make any determination.


Very good. We have all these players out and other than McKnight I never really heard any explanation why. Thanks


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

pbutler218 said:


> Cam Crawford wasn't dressed last night. Is he redshirting? Also, what is the status of Rob Martin?



Crawford and Martin are either redshirting or not going to see the floor. That's all you need to know for now...


----------



## BlueBleeder

It will be interesting to see what happens with Martin.  Coach said before his hip injury, he was fighting for the starting rotation.  Wonder if something has changed or perhaps that hip is still lingering and they feel like they dont need him this year.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BlueBleeder said:


> It will be interesting to see what happens with Martin.  Coach said before his hip injury, he was fighting for the starting rotation.  Wonder if something has changed or perhaps that hip is still lingering and they feel like they dont need him this year.



Sometimes coaches say things that aren't always the truth... They're not trying to lie. But messaging is pretty important - I think fans (like Indiana State fans) that haven't had much to cheer for or talk about tend to hang onto such statements far too often - I'm guilty as well. What good would be for him to come out and say Martin is going to have to fight for minutes coming off the bench? Or Martin will be lucky if he doesn't redshirt? Like none of that would send the player a very positive message. But knowing that you're potentially fighting for a starting job - now that will motivate a player. I think you've also got to realize that Gibson has looked really well in his two public appearances for the Sycamores - perhaps he was competing for the job at that point in time and Gibson flat out one the job? 

I don't know anything about Martin - I've never seen even a highlight tape on him. Quite frankly, after watching Gibson and knowing our depth at guard I don't need to see anything on him. He's not going to steal minutes from Gibson > Larry > Miller > Bledson (who tends to handle the ball quite a bit and run offense when he's on the floor) > Neese (who can also handle it). 

At the end of the day I just don't think we have enough minutes to go around this year. It's just the fact of the matter right now.


----------



## BlueBleeder

I agree with you, but Coach has built a reputation of telling it like it is, so we had no reason to think he wasn't being honest. I am fine with Martin taking a RS year, hopefully he sees the benifits also.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BlueBleeder said:


> I agree with you, but Coach has built a reputation of telling it like it is, so we had no reason to think he wasn't being honest. I am fine with Martin taking a RS year, hopefully he sees the benifits also.



Which is why I provided multiple scenarios as to why he would make that comment. I don't think coaches need to be honest with the media when it comes to things like that though? Like why should they is my point? If the player isn't competing for a starting job - but he's a good player and I think he could become a starter - then I'm telling him every single day and I'm telling the media he's competing for a starting job! If he doesn't start or doesn't even play for that matter it doesn't mean the coach was dishonest and even if he was dishonest - who the F really cares? 

And while we're discussing this - has he really, "built his reputation on telling it like it is?" I'm not saying he doesn't tell it like it is - but for him to have built his reputation on something shouldn't that be like a widely known and discussed sentiment? I don't think we've ever discussed that on here and I certainly have never taken a step back and thought man that JS really just tells it like it is... And for the record I've seen about every interview he's done and I don't think the man is a bull shitter or a liar by any means. 

Martin has been mentioned for a few weeks now by members here... So it's worth the discussion for sure and who knows maybe he finds his way in the lineup at some point I don't know.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Sometimes coaches say things that aren't always the truth... They're not trying to lie. But messaging is pretty important - I think fans (like Indiana State fans) that haven't had much to cheer for or talk about tend to hang onto such statements far too often - I'm guilty as well. What good would be for him to come out and say Martin is going to have to fight for minutes coming off the bench? Or Martin will be lucky if he doesn't redshirt? Like none of that would send the player a very positive message. But knowing that you're potentially fighting for a starting job - now that will motivate a player. I think you've also got to realize that Gibson has looked really well in his two public appearances for the Sycamores - perhaps he was competing for the job at that point in time and Gibson flat out one the job?
> 
> I don't know anything about Martin - I've never seen even a highlight tape on him. Quite frankly, after watching Gibson and knowing our depth at guard I don't need to see anything on him. He's not going to steal minutes from Gibson > Larry > Miller > Bledson (who tends to handle the ball quite a bit and run offense when he's on the floor) > Neese (who can also handle it).
> 
> At the end of the day I just don't think we have enough minutes to go around this year. It's just the fact of the matter right now.


Good post.  I have watched Martin quite a bit.  He is quick and has all of the ball skills.  However, he loves to drive and he is SHORT.  I think it will take him a year to see what he can and can't do.  The way Gibson and Larry have looked, I can't see anybody taking minutes away from them.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Will continue to die on this hill. I would not redshirt anyone and Martin is the only one I would even consider.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Will continue to die on this hill. I would not redshirt anyone and Martin is the only one I would even consider.


Why?  If you have 6 sr, why make young guys sit and burn a year?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> Why?  If you have 6 sr, why make young guys sit and burn a year?



Because the environment is different and you give up roster flexibility by guaranteeing scholarships in future years. Now, if it is a matter of the player is preserving that eligibility but we've made it clear that we may not bring them back, then we're looking out for the kid while keeping our maneuverability. 

With the change in rules opening it up for player movement, NLI/P4P, etc., the margin for error for mid-major coaches has become even smaller. The coach needs to have every possible lever available to them to put the best team together each and every year. Could be stated it is even more important in leagues like ours where it's super competitive.


----------



## sycamorebacker

I wouldn’t offer a redshirt unless I was sure that he would make us a better team the next year.
You certainly wouldn’t want to lock down a spot for an average player. 
we’re talking about a MO POY here.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> I wouldn’t offer a redshirt unless I was sure that he would make us a better team the next year.
> You certainly wouldn’t want to lock down a spot for an average player.
> we’re talking about a MO POY here.



True but as Jason mentioned above ultimately the program holds all the cards. You can accomplish both by preserving a year of eligibility for the player and cut ties with him after the season if you can’t find a place for him on your roster.

I think with the portal being such a factor that coaches should be much more reluctant to redshirt future all conference level players. I’ve mentioned before - you give them an additional year to develop on your dime while they might not realize the four year commitment they made to you in the first place… Hell naaa I’m not taking that chance. You can ride the pine your Freshman year and I will get the good years out of you that I can. I think by redshirting an all conference level player - giving them an extra year to develop you increase the % that they hit the portal at some point in the future. I’m not an analytical person by any means but I’m not messing with that increased chance. If for some reason you can’t see my logic here you go…

Red Shirt - Developmental Year on my dime. 
Freshman - Plays Okay.
Soph - Plays Good. 
JR - Plays Great.
Senior - Portal. Plays for Tennessee or Wake or Someone else entirely.

And the scenario without the redshirt.

Freshman - Plays limited minutes. 
Sophomore - Plays Okay
Junior - Plays Good
Senior - He’s not hitting the portal because stock isn’t high enough Plays Great.

You’re getting the same level of production either way - but without the redshirt you’re not financing his development for the power 5 schools to get the benefit of it. The NCAA has done enough to make life easier on those programs with tournament expansion, conference realignment, scheduling, on and on… I’m not giving an inch if I’m coaching a D1 mid major.


----------



## Bluethunder

BlueBleeder said:


> It will be interesting to see what happens with Martin.  Coach said before his hip injury, he was fighting for the starting rotation.  Wonder if something has changed or perhaps that hip is still lingering and they feel like they dont need him this year.


Remember that coach also said Peterson was in the hunt for a starting position last year about this time, and by the end of the year the kid transferred due to a lack of playing time.

Take HCJS’s comments with a large grain of salt


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Bluethunder said:


> Remember that coach also said Peterson was in the hunt for a starting position last year about this time, and by the end of the year the kid transferred due to a lack of playing time.
> 
> Take HCJS’s comments with a large grain of salt



But that’s impossible… He built his entire reputation on telling it like it is.


----------



## BlueBleeder

That is true him saying that about Peterson, but Q also had many injuries and illness set him back. Look, have your fun at my expense if you want, but i am not wrong. In fact, last year SSOM stated in a thread that coach shares too much info and that he should keep some things out of the media.....so i guess you've changed your mind, huh?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BlueBleeder said:


> That is true him saying that about Peterson, but Q also had many injuries and illness set him back. Look, have your fun at my expense if you want, but i am not wrong. In fact, last year SSOM stated in a thread that coach shares too much info and that he should keep some things out of the media.....so i guess you've changed your mind, huh?



I didn’t change my mind… Nor is anyone having fun “at your expense” just be glad we have something to discuss on here. It lasts about 3 months and then we go back to having not very much to talk about for 9 months.


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> True but as Jason mentioned above ultimately the program holds all the cards. You can accomplish both by preserving a year of eligibility for the player and cut ties with him after the season if you can’t find a place for him on your roster.
> 
> I think with the portal being such a factor that coaches should be much more reluctant to redshirt future all conference level players. I’ve mentioned before - you give them an additional year to develop on your dime while they might not realize the four year commitment they made to you in the first place… Hell naaa I’m not taking that chance. You can ride the pine your Freshman year and I will get the good years out of you that I can. I think by redshirting an all conference level player - giving them an extra year to develop you increase the % that they hit the portal at some point in the future. I’m not an analytical person by any means but I’m not messing with that increased chance. If for some reason you can’t see my logic here you go…
> 
> Red Shirt - Developmental Year on my dime.
> Freshman - Plays Okay.
> Soph - Plays Good.
> JR - Plays Great.
> Senior - Portal. Plays for Tennessee or Wake or Someone else entirely.
> 
> And the scenario without the redshirt.
> 
> Freshman - Plays limited minutes.
> Sophomore - Plays Okay
> Junior - Plays Good
> Senior - He’s not hitting the portal because stock isn’t high enough Plays Great.
> 
> You’re getting the same level of production either way - but without the redshirt you’re not financing his development for the power 5 schools to get the benefit of it. The NCAA has done enough to make life easier on those programs with tournament expansion, conference realignment, scheduling, on and on… I’m not giving an inch if I’m coaching a D1 mid major.


This has been my approach to redshirting post rule changes..i've just never been able to put it into words like this on the form, but this is exactly my feelings on the whole redshirting vs. not redshirting at our level..Well put SSOM!

Also i'm not as up to date as I use to be on redshirting rules and what not..Are they now allowing players to take extra redshirt years for injury sake? Like I remember way back when we redshirted TJ bell as a FR bc he wasn't ready and then he blew his knee out his JR yr... that year was just lost bc he had already redshirted..So he was on campus for 5 years and only played 3 for us. Even less incentive to redshirt if that is still the current rule, i'd rather save it in case of major injury.


----------



## dino

I have no interest in looking this up but can you imagine that coach Schertz might’ve redshirted 40, 50, 60+ players at LMU? It was at a Different level but a guy who’s as detailed oriented as coach would likely understand the risk/reward of redshirting.  I think This years team is definitely the team to do it on. Next years roster might have no redshirts. 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> This has been my approach to redshirting post rule changes..i've just never been able to put it into words like this on the form, but this is exactly my feelings on the whole redshirting vs. not redshirting at our level..Well put SSOM!
> 
> Also i'm not as up to date as I use to be on redshirting rules and what not..Are they now allowing players to take extra redshirt years for injury sake? Like I remember way back when we redshirted TJ bell as a FR bc he wasn't ready and then he blew his knee out his JR yr... that year was just lost bc he had already redshirted..So he was on campus for 5 years and only played 3 for us. Even less incentive to redshirt if that is still the current rule, i'd rather save it in case of major injury.



Unless it’s change my understanding was you could use an “academic redshirt” and then if you sustain a season ending injury and haven’t played over ____ % of your games then you can apply for a medical redshirt. Meaning two redshirt seasons are a possibility.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

dino said:


> I have no interest in looking this up but can you imagine that coach Schertz might’ve redshirted 40, 50, 60+ players at LMU? It was at a Different level but a guy who’s as detailed oriented as coach would likely understand the risk/reward of redshirting.  I think This years team is definitely the team to do it on. Next years roster might have no redshirts. 🤷🏻‍♂️



Ummm he wasn’t red shirting players with the current portal circumstances in mind - in fact no one at the mid major level was. So it’s certainly possible they haven’t considered everything - because it’s new and sometimes you have to learn the hard way. 

But I guess your point is that JS understands when/why/risk/reward of redshirtting?! Okay good for him - that doesn’t mean everyone reading here has considered all of the possibilities of why or why not. None of this conversation was to discredit JS’s comprehension of the system - it’s a message board my comments were directed toward ANY midmajor program red shirting players.


----------



## dino

In general, people have pronounced redshirtining dead for years but it’s still happening…

I think one aspect of Schertz’s recruiting that people doubt is the ability to keep players long term in d1. He does have a good track record of keeping players that would have surely been suited to play at a higher level. we just don’t know how it will play out at isu. Most of his upper class men at LMu were probably d1 ready.  He kept everybody but McCauley. But then got him back. I think he’s that good of a recruiter and it’s hard to imagine a mass exodus of talent where it will ever  be bone dry. I’m sure somebody will eventually and it will sting. But it be alright though.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

dino said:


> In general, people have pronounced redshirtining dead for years but it’s still happening…
> 
> I think one aspect of Schertz’s recruiting that people doubt is the ability to keep players long term in d1. He does have a good track record of keeping players that would have surely been suited to play at a higher level. we just don’t know how it will play out at isu. Most of his upper class men at LMu were probably d1 ready.  He kept everybody but McCauley. But then got him back. I think he’s that good of a recruiter and it’s hard to imagine a mass exodus of talent where it will ever  be bone dry. I’m sure somebody will eventually and it will sting. But it be alright though.



That no doubt will be interesting to see… I’d say the only player on this roster currently that he could potentially worry about - based on ceiling alone is Avila.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> That no doubt will be interesting to see… I’d say the only player on this roster currently that he could potentially worry about - based on ceiling alone is Avila.


To your last point, and I'm sure most would agree -- I think Avila can be a great player for us.  I watched him is HS games and that guy can do it all.  One game I watched, he filled his stat sheet in Q4.  I think guys like him try to stay out of foul trouble the first 3 quarters.  But that kid has a really, nice looking shot!


----------



## dino

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> That no doubt will be interesting to see… I’d say the only player on this roster currently that he could potentially worry about - based on ceiling alone is Avila.


This message is for everybody on this board. Watch this video of Emanuel terry highlights and ask yourself why he didn’t go play d1 ball at any power conference team and be an absolute stud. None of us probably knew who he was but he was a man amongst boys in d2. Yet he stayed to dominate at a relatively obscure school? Schertz is here to do that at indiana state. He wants to bring along guys who will stay. Avila is definitely a guy you don’t want to see hit the portal. He’s probably going to have a pretty solid career if he stays.  But I believe his track record of bringing guys along, developing a plan for their game and their bodies. There will always be talent. Next year does kind of concern me but coach has done a pretty good job at filling the gaps after a year of trial and error.

Edited to include: sound on video is rather annoying. But if you like dunking this video is for you!


----------



## Southgrad07

I'm not going to say there is zero chance you're correct, JS very well could be phenomenal at developing relationships with his players and we never lose our better HS players transferring up....BUT i'm going to be very skeptical until proven wrong because this is not the same college basketball landscape as 2018 and before (that is when Terry went through LMU). At that point d2 kids had to sit out an entire year moving up a level  and there was no legal NIL money. Heck of a lot easier to convince someone to stay D2 instead of jumping to D1 then...I'm just saying any of JS's track record at LMU retaining talent is null and void in the discussion here at ISU in 2022.


----------



## sycamorebacker

NIL changes everything!


----------



## BlueBleeder

Plain and simply, if you want to retain players and get even better ones to transfer here......just win baby!  Just Win. Prove you are a great destination where they have realistic chances to win conference championship and play in the NCAA tournament.


----------



## dino

Southgrad07 said:


> I'm not going to say there is zero chance you're correct, JS very well could be phenomenal at developing relationships with his players and we never lose our better HS players transferring up....BUT i'm going to be very skeptical until proven wrong because this is not the same college basketball landscape as 2018 and before (that is when Terry went through LMU). At that point d2 kids had to sit out an entire year moving up a level  and there was no legal NIL money. Heck of a lot easier to convince someone to stay D2 instead of jumping to D1 then...I'm just saying any of JS's track record at LMU retaining talent is null and void in the discussion here at ISU in 2022.


I (maybe stubbornly) choose to believe otherwise and I also understand why anybody would be skeptical given the drastic change in context between d2 and d1…and NIL. I have almost no doubt somebody will transfer. I think more than likely both scenarios end up being true: Schertz will bring along players that we admire that stay until the end of their careers. And we’ll see somebody transfer that we will likely miss and people will resent. The current D1 landscape changes the coaches approach but i believe in the process. I’m just optimistic for some reason. Could be fools gold but idk.


----------



## dino

Every single player that has already either committed to Indiana state or decided not to transfer theoretically chose not to pursue more money elsewhere. Quality players are already commiting to this school with these other opportunities available. It’s already happening. I think the talent will be there. It’s just a matter of how far that talent goes. Fans will have their own ways of measuring success.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

dino said:


> I (maybe stubbornly) choose to believe otherwise and I also understand why anybody would be skeptical given the drastic change in context between d2 and d1…and NIL. I have almost no doubt somebody will transfer. I think more than likely both scenarios end up being true: Schertz will bring along players that we admire that stay until the end of their careers. And we’ll see somebody transfer that we will likely miss and people will resent. The current D1 landscape changes the coaches approach but i believe in the process. I’m just optimistic for some reason. Could be fools gold but idk.



After watching third tier players get called up to HM programs and get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, any time a MM program has a guy that stands out, there are going to be bad actors behind the scenes working deals. Until enough of these people get burned and those NIL funds dry up because companies realize there isn't a solid ROI behind them, that is the main reason I believe the way I do.

At the end of the day, we have to remember that we, as alumni or fans, love the school because we spent years there forming awesome memories. I do hope the team and staff can foster that sort of environment where players don't want to leave. But again, we have NIL while the NCAA is moving from a org-focused to player-focused ruleset. It's just a tough environment.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Crawford, Schertz and Holmes redshirting officially.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

After today - somewhat surprised (not really) Avila not RS’ing. Thought JS had a perfect opportunity to play him on a bigger big to see how he’d respond and he never even looked his direction.

So it’s non conference - doesn’t matter. We’re in complete control throughout - doesn’t matter. And Ball State has a decent banger - matters. Today was a perfect chance to get him some run to see how he responds


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> After today - somewhat surprised (not really) Avila not RS’ing. Thought JS had a perfect opportunity to play him on a bigger big to see how he’d respond and he never even looked his direction.
> 
> So it’s non conference - doesn’t matter. We’re in complete control throughout - doesn’t matter. And Ball State has a decent banger - matters. Today was a perfect chance to get him some run to see how he responds


My guess is he is still coming out of that flu and probably doesn’t have legs/stamina.


----------



## pbutler218

Jason Svoboda said:


> My guess is he is still coming out of that flu and probably doesn’t have legs/stamina.


Coach said he'd lost about 8 pounds during his bout with the flu. No way was he ready to play today. Also, I might add that McKnight gave it a go today but he obviously isn't game-ready either.


----------



## swsycamore

dino said:


> This message is for everybody on this board. Watch this video of Emanuel terry highlights and ask yourself why he didn’t go play d1 ball at any power conference team and be an absolute stud. None of us probably knew who he was but he was a man amongst boys in d2. Yet he stayed to dominate at a relatively obscure school? Schertz is here to do that at indiana state. He wants to bring along guys who will stay. Avila is definitely a guy you don’t want to see hit the portal. He’s probably going to have a pretty solid career if he stays.  But I believe his track record of bringing guys along, developing a plan for their game and their bodies. There will always be talent. Next year does kind of concern me but coach has done a pretty good job at filling the gaps after a year of trial and error.
> 
> Edited to include: sound on video is rather annoying. But if you like dunking this video is for you!


wow


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Need another big.



Done.

Still technically have 3 ships open. If they've promised any of them to any of the walk-ons, then subtract difference. We currently have 3 walk-ons.


----------



## Blue Streaker

I think Schertz has talked publicly about Miller being on scholarship next year.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Blue Streaker said:


> I think Schertz has talked publicly about Miller being on scholarship next year.



He said he could earn it. But I'd argue unless it shows in games, he can't afford to do that.


----------



## pbutler218

A super athletic wing would be nice 🤞


----------



## southernindianaballer

Last 2 years on the recruiting trail for ISU have been solid !


----------



## dino

Jason Svoboda said:


> Well based on above, we have 9 under scholarship which leaves 4 more spots. Depending on how Miller plays, he could potentially earn one of those. I think they'd likely do that to push a ship down to future classes -- you never want to have to go after 6 guys in a class.
> 
> So if that happens, that leaves 3 openings. Thinking about that and how quickly Avila progresses, I think you likely want to see if you can get a transfer big to pair with him, one more HSer and the the last one is a wildcard to be used on BPA either HSer/JuCO/transfer that can help team based on where HCJS sees the squad and needs.


I checked on the Todd golden article about Miller and it said that a scholarship for Miller was agreed upon for after the season. I know things can change but it might be safe to say that it’s his.

I’m having a hard time picking anybody that  would likely transfer but who knows. That makes 2 available scholarships…and then a tweeted offer on the same day Derek Vorst signs his letter of intent! Really  makes you wonder if they are going to keep adding to the freshman class. It’s looking pretty nice though.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

dino said:


> I checked on the Todd golden article about Miller and it said that a scholarship for Miller was agreed upon for after the season. I know things can change but it might be safe to say that it’s his.
> 
> I’m having a hard time picking anybody that  would likely transfer but who knows. That makes 2 available scholarships…and then a tweeted offer on the same day Derek Vorst signs his letter of intent! Really  makes you wonder if they are going to keep adding to the freshman class. It’s looking pretty nice though.



Can you link the article?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Down to 2 with the Daughtry commitment; 1 if Miller is getting a ship.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

JS is loading up… He just doesn’t seem to have any issues going after a target and landing the plane.


----------



## dino

Jason Svoboda said:


> Can you link the article?











						The buck stopped here: Truman State transfers McKnight, Miller working to make their mark
					

Truman State transfers Cade McKnight and Masen Miller are working hard to make their mark as Sycamores.




					www.tribstar.com


----------



## Jason Svoboda

dino said:


> The buck stopped here: Truman State transfers McKnight, Miller working to make their mark
> 
> 
> Truman State transfers Cade McKnight and Masen Miller are working hard to make their mark as Sycamores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tribstar.com



Thanks, I'll make that change. So that leaves 1 spot left. I can't see any way the other walk-on Holmes gets that. 

IMO, looking at the roster in the first post, they likely need to find a CG in the Vos mold.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> Thanks, I'll make that change. So that leaves 1 spot left. I can't see any way the other walk-on Holmes gets that.
> 
> IMO, looking at the roster in the first post, they likely need to find a CG in the Vos mold.


Yup. Need another athletic PTP wing. Not any easy ask - would suspect that you will see a heavy dose of Kent which I don’t hate. But Kent isn’t a Voss - Kent is a piece (one that I love) but he’s not the centerpiece.

You lose Cooper, Henry and Voss… That will not be easy to replace. But for now - I’m just going to enjoy the present and worry about the rest of this later.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> But for now - I’m just going to enjoy the present and worry about the rest of this later.


Picked 8th in the Valley this year, right?? 🤣🤣


----------



## southernindianaballer

Well... my hope is...  Good success this season will lead to a "centerpiece" transfer in the form of a good Cognac.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> Thanks, I'll make that change. So that leaves 1 spot left. I can't see any way the other walk-on Holmes gets that.


Have you seen Holmes play in practice?


----------



## sycamorebacker

southernindianaballer said:


> Well... my hope is...  Good success this season will lead to a "centerpiece" transfer in the form of a good Cognac.


I'd be fine standing pat with what we have.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> Have you seen Holmes play in practice?



I don’t think anyone needs to… We’re not looking for a piece. We’re looking for someone who can go get his own anytime he wants. Easier said than done - but that would be the ideal find. A 6th year grad year type of find - someone JS has had a history with perhaps?


----------



## sycamorebacker

McCauley is a once in a decade player with 5-6 years of experience.  Not holding my breath on a replacement.  I'd be satisfied with 4-5 guys averaging in double figures.
I think Avila is going to be our "centerpiece."  He touched the ball about 8 times the other night and had 6 pts and 2 assists.  The MO POY surely has a place and, from what I've seen, we signed 3 players with a lot of potential.  I'm expecting Crawford and Kent to be solid.
I'm ok with what we have.

One problem could be a FR backup center, but I doubt that we will correct that.


----------



## dino

I can’t currently wrap my head around Crawford, Martin, and Avila being in the same class. Would be true as long as Crawford maintains redshirt. 🤯


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> McCauley is a once in a decade player with 5-6 years of experience.  Not holding my breath on a replacement.  I'd be satisfied with 4-5 guys averaging in double figures.
> I think Avila is going to be our "centerpiece."  He touched the ball about 8 times the other night and had 6 pts and 2 assists.  The MO POY surely has a place and, from what I've seen, we signed 3 players with a lot of potential.  I'm expecting Crawford and Kent to be solid.
> I'm ok with what we have.
> 
> One problem could be a FR backup center, but I doubt that we will correct that.



So you asked Jason if he's seen Holmes practice... We've seen Crawford play (so I don't need to see him practice) what have you seen from Crawford to expect anything? I'm not saying he might not develop into a nice player - but what I've seen thus far gives me very little expectation that he will be solid. Kent on the other hand is very solid - but he's not going to be "the man" I don't think?? 

So who becomes the man?? Because you've still typically got to have a guy or two that can go get you a bucket when you need one - teams in recent memory that haven't had that guy or that we've asked that guy to do too much haven't been good teams. Avlia is that guy for you? Maybe... Two years from now I can defiantly see that being a possibility I like what I've seen from him thus far.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> Have you seen Holmes play in practice?



Don't need to. He's a walk-on that had no other D1 offers. Could he and the staff develop him into something? Definitely. However, the odds of that are not favorable. Rooting for it but have very low expectations. All my "GM" thoughts are rooted in logic and reason. 



			https://sycamorepride.com/threads/looking-at-the-roster-next-year.44015/#post-327928
		


Looking at the wing bucket, just look at the odds he has to overcome there alone to get on the floor. That also makes it easy to see why the staff probably can't afford to give him a scholarship unless we have attrition.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Yes, I agree with all of that. I watched him again and he does not seem to be very athletic.  But I don't consider Bledson, Cooper, Hobbs, or Gibson to be athletic.  
Like you said, it may just be a matter of what we have and need.  I'm curious as to why they would redshirt him.  
The bottom line is do we need a non-athletic wing that can handle, pass, shoot and rebound.


----------



## sycamorebacker

After the last 2 games, I NOW think we should do some spring cleaning.  The SO and JR are in their 3rd and 4th years of experience.  If they can't get into the rotation, they need to be replaced.  IF we can recruit over them.  
Does anybody else think having so many D2 players puts us at a disadvantage in size and quickness?


----------



## dino

sycamorebacker said:


> After the last 2 games, I NOW think we should do some spring cleaning.  The SO and JR are in their 3rd and 4th years of experience.  If they can't get into the rotation, they need to be replaced.  IF we can recruit over them.
> Does anybody else think having so many D2 players puts us at a disadvantage in size and quickness


I’m sure there are plenty of d2 players who would be d1 if they were taller, longer, faster, etc. So I think you are on to something.

but in all honesty, is this not a knee jerk reaction to one loss? Gut the underclass men because the (mostly) upper class men lost a game? I don’t think I’d entertain idea at all without a ton more context.


----------



## sycamorebacker

I've always been a BIG proponent of experience and slow to give up on players. But they all have an extra year of experience now and I'm wondering if a SO or JR can't go out and give you 10 or 12 pts even occasionally, maybe he's not going to develop.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

It is imperative we get another experienced shooting in for next year.


----------



## meistro

IMO, we need a high caliber point guard that will be here for at least two years.


----------



## sycamorebacker

meistro said:


> IMO, we need a high caliber point guard that will be here for at least two years.


You mean Larry and Martin?  I'm not worried about PG.  Like Jason said, we could always use an experienced G that can shoot.  He would have to be better than Miller/Shetlar/Holmes.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Jason Svoboda said:


> It is imperative we get another experienced shooting in for next year.


I understand wanting experience, but I think we should think of next year as a building year for '25.
If Shetlar is truly #1 in Kansas, and is a great shooter at 6'6" and from what I have seen of Daughtry and Manyawu, I think we could be very good in '25.  We could also use an experienced backup center.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> You mean Larry and Martin?  I'm not worried about PG.  Like Jason said, we could always use an experienced G that can shoot.  He would have to be better than Miller/Shetlar/Holmes.



Martin isn’t experienced or proven - it would be best for you to take a wait and see approach with him given what I have seen thus far. 

Larry is nothing more than a solid backup PG that has made a pretty big step forward this year. Which is saying something because anyone touting him prior to this year wasn’t expecting him to take a big step forward. They were simply content with below average guard play. 

So you really aren’t all that set up at the PG position.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamorebacker said:


> I understand wanting experience, but I think we should think of next year as a building year for '25.
> If Shetlar is truly #1 in Kansas, and is a great shooter at 6'6" and from what I have seen of Daughtry and Manyawu, I think we could be very good in '25.  We could also use an experienced backup center.



This I tend to agree with - it will definitely be a building year in my opinion.


----------



## FanSinceArenaDays

Hate to even mention it but Avila is thriving here & a big part moving forward but he is going to have people in his ear in this "legal tampering" recruiting climate. We need to keep him content in Terre Haute.


----------



## sycamorebacker

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Martin isn’t experienced or proven - it would be best for you to take a wait and see approach with him given what I have seen thus far.
> 
> Larry is nothing more than a solid backup PG that has made a pretty big step forward this year. Which is saying something because anyone touting him prior to this year wasn’t expecting him to take a big step forward. They were simply content with below average guard play.
> 
> So you really aren’t all that set up at the PG position.


Yes, I understand that.  But Coach doesn't always use a pure PG.  I am concerned about our C position with only Avila and with Manyawu as backup. 
I think we could go with what we have on the perimeter if we could get a good C.  We are stocked with players right now and short of cleaning house, I think
our next "good" team will be in 2 years.

With normal progression, I'm looking for Larry to start finishing some drives and rack up a lot of assists next year. 
Without Henry and McCauley on the floor he will get a lot more opps for passes.   And I really think Martin will be as good with plus shooting.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

FanSinceArenaDays said:


> Hate to even mention it but Avila is thriving here & a big part moving forward but he is going to have people in his ear in this "legal tampering" recruiting climate. We need to keep him content in Terre Haute.



Then don’t mention it!!! He’s fine… Ya all really going to live like that and worry about shit you can’t control?? Is that really the stuff we’re going to start talking about?? 

Let me know so I’m not here for it… Enjoy the season and the success. Indiana State has some NIL investors if you’re worried about it write a check, go to the meetings, etc etc. I’m sure trying to keep Avila here will be a top priority. But if a P5 really wants him then they will make him an offer that he can’t refuse. 

I’m just not going to have this conversation every single time we get a good player in here - well I hope we can keep him happy so he stays around. It feels so second rate and worthless to operate in that head space. If Avila leaves then so be it - go to the portal and find his replacement. Next man up. You can’t worry about these kids maybe or maybe not leaving especially in this environment. They’re going to do what is best for them and that’s that.


----------



## sycamorebacker

FanSinceArenaDays said:


> Hate to even mention it but Avila is thriving here & a big part moving forward but he is going to have people in his ear in this "legal tampering" recruiting climate. We need to keep him content in Terre Haute.


Yes, but what can we do?   I just hope he LOVES playing HERE and for CS.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamorebacker said:


> Yes, I understand that.  But Coach doesn't always use a pure PG.  I am concerned about our C position with only Avila and with Manyawu as backup.
> I think we could go with what we have on the perimeter if we could get a good C.  We are stocked with players right now and short of cleaning house, I think
> our next "good" team will be in 2 years.
> 
> With normal progression, I'm looking for Larry to start finishing some drives and rack up a lot of assists next year.
> Without Henry and McCauley on the floor he will get a lot more opps for passes.   And I really think Martin will be as good with plus shooting.



He hasn't used one because he hasn't had one here. But pure PG isn't really the issue -- it's being either a clutch facilitator or playmaker under pressure.

It is no coincidence that Gibson had 6 turnovers in both the UMKC and USI games. There are times when your team needs a facilitator that can just get your guys into a bucket to calm things down. In both games I saw Gibson try, press and turn it over which led to continued runs and eventual lost leads. If your PG isn't a facilitator that can do this, he needs to be a playmaker that can get his own bucket. I feel like Gibson is solid, but he isn't a plus shooter so he's not quite three dimensional there.


----------



## 4Q_iu

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Then don’t mention it!!! He’s fine… Ya all really going to live like that and worry about shit you can’t control?? Is that really the stuff we’re going to start talking about??
> 
> Let me know so I’m not here for it… Enjoy the season and the success. Indiana State has some NIL investors if you’re worried about it write a check, go to the meetings, etc etc. I’m sure trying to keep Avila here will be a top priority. But if a P5 really wants him then they will make him an offer that he can’t refuse.
> 
> I’m just not going to have this conversation every single time we get a good player in here - well I hope we can keep him happy so he stays around. It feels so second rate and worthless to operate in that head space. If Avila leaves then so be it - go to the portal and find his replacement. Next man up. You can’t worry about these kids maybe or maybe not leaving especially in this environment. They’re going to do what is best for them and that’s that.



Move along everyone -- No room here for any clear-eyed, steely-eyed pragmatists.


----------



## EvilleSycamore

Jason Svoboda said:


> He hasn't used one because he hasn't had one here. But pure PG isn't really the issue -- it's being either a clutch facilitator or playmaker under pressure.
> 
> It is no coincidence that Gibson had 6 turnovers in both the UMKC and USI games. There are times when your team needs a facilitator that can just get your guys into a bucket to calm things down. In both games I saw Gibson try, press and turn it over which led to continued runs and eventual lost leads. If your PG isn't a facilitator that can do this, he needs to be a playmaker that can get his own bucket. I feel like Gibson is solid, but he isn't a plus shooter so he's not quite three dimensional there.


Your next* true* point guard is setting on the bench in Martin.  I agree with Jason on this one, once this years last year of eligibility players ( can't call em seniors anymore) clear out, you need a scorer preferably a PF that will compliment a multitude of line-up's from the grouping of Kent, Robbie, Martin, Leary, Hobbs, Blesden The freshmen coming in, and maybe Crawford. That gives us an experienced core group who have played together ( which we didnt have this year) We can ship the rest of the crew down to USI like last year and pick up 3-4 portal players that fit that last piece or two, if we have a great year this year our street cred may be enough to land the P-5 scorer we all dream about. IMO the Valley level of play wont be any better next year and possibly weaker than this year so we may be in a better position than when we came into this year as far as experience and solid depth. we need the next man up as a scorer and and the other piece/


----------



## sycamorebacker

EvilleSycamore said:


> Your next* true* point guard is setting on the bench in Martin.  I agree with Jason on this one, once this years last year of eligibility players ( can't call em seniors anymore) clear out, you need a scorer preferably a PF that will compliment a multitude of line-up's from the grouping of Kent, Robbie, Martin, Leary, Hobbs, Blesden The freshmen coming in, and maybe Crawford. That gives us an experienced core group who have played together ( which we didnt have this year) We can ship the rest of the crew down to USI like last year and pick up 3-4 portal players that fit that last piece or two, if we have a great year this year our street cred may be enough to land the P-5 scorer we all dream about. IMO the Valley level of play wont be any better next year and possibly weaker than this year so we may be in a better position than when we came into this year as far as experience and solid depth. we need the next man up as a scorer and and the other piece/


Need to check your math


----------



## EvilleSycamore

sycamorebacker said:


> Need to check your math


Kent, Robbie, Martin, Leary, Hobbs, Blesden The freshmen coming in, and maybe Crawford.  = 11....  you still have 3-4 (depending on the Crawford swing or others leaving) others that can be moved to create space for portal players and one current open scholarship .  Please dont't turn this into a speculation of who is going at the end of the year, we still have to play this year.


----------



## sycamorebacker

EvilleSycamore said:


> Kent, Robbie, Martin, Leary, Hobbs, Blesden The freshmen coming in, and maybe Crawford.  = 11....  you still have 3-4 (depending on the Crawford swing or others leaving) others that can be moved to create space for portal players.  Please dont't turn this into a speculation of who is going at the end of the year, we still have to play this year.


Just saying, 13 scholarships.  We could get 2 on the market if you are going to cut Miller and Holmes.  That seems unlikely.  The player I think is on the bubble is Bledson unless he is kept for a backup center.  
Would you agree that these are the 9 rotation spots?  I'd rather go with these then bring in 3-4 players that think they are 
too good and not appreciated by their current coach/players or do not get along with them.  I do not players that are always jumping 
around looking for a new spot every year. 

I guess we have contacted the Yoder kid from Westview that was on the core Jr all-star team.  He is a guard that can shoot.  

Kent
Avila
Larry
Martin
Crawford
Daughtry
Hobbs/Shetlar
Miller
Manyawu/Bledson


----------



## Jason Svoboda

We currently have one open scholarship for next year. 

The staff is still looking at 2023 people. If we take someone, we would then have to not renew someone else.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Hobbs or Bledson


----------



## Bluethunder

sycamorebacker said:


> Hobbs or Bledson


So you would keep the 6’0” three point shooter who doesn’t make any three point shots over the 6’5” three point shooter who does make three point shots?

Got it. 👍


----------



## EvilleSycamore

sycamorebacker said:


> Hobbs or Bledson


Wow going to the tough questions! We have been hoping and begging for a Bledson breakout for two seasons and it really hasn't been as magical as we would like.  Hobbs isnt afraid to put it up as long as its beyond the Arc and that's the problem.  I think I would have to go Bledsen.  We have others who aren't afraid to put it up like Hobbs to duplicate what he has to offer, but there is still that chance Bledson is as dynamic as we hope and could unload anytime.


----------



## FanSinceArenaDays

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Then don’t mention it!!! He’s fine… Ya all really going to live like that and worry about shit you can’t control?? Is that really the stuff we’re going to start talking about??
> 
> Let me know so I’m not here for it… Enjoy the season and the success. Indiana State has some NIL investors if you’re worried about it write a check, go to the meetings, etc etc. I’m sure trying to keep Avila here will be a top priority. But if a P5 really wants him then they will make him an offer that he can’t refuse.
> 
> I’m just not going to have this conversation every single time we get a good player in here - well I hope we can keep him happy so he stays around. It feels so second rate and worthless to operate in that head space. If Avila leaves then so be it - go to the portal and find his replacement. Next man up. You can’t worry about these kids maybe or maybe not leaving especially in this environment. They’re going to do what is best for them and that’s that.


who pissed in your Cherrios Bucko....... just when you appear to show some sense you go off the deep end like a prick. Yes it is a fact that we will lose exceptional players to the big spenders if they want them......today's market & a fact of life so don't deny it. And yes I am enjoying the season & not spending time arguing with one of our players on Twitter over attendance.


----------



## sycamorebacker

Bluethunder said:


> So you would keep the 6’0” three point shooter who doesn’t make any three point shots over the 6’5” three point shooter who does make three point shots?
> 
> Got it. 👍


I would keep Miller over Hobbs.  How much did you watch Miller play last year?  If you watched a couple of games, I will respect your opinion.


----------



## Bluethunder

sycamorebacker said:


> I would keep Miller over Hobbs.  How much did you watch Miller play last year?  If you watched a couple of games, I will respect your opinion.


Before I answer that question, I would ask you if you have watched Miller play *this* year. And if so, what have you seen that suggests he is a division one player?


----------



## sycamorebacker

Bluethunder said:


> Before I answer that question, I would ask you if you have watched Miller play *this* year. And if so, what have you seen that suggests he is a division one player?


He hasn't played enough to tell, and isn't he a SO?
He's averaging 7 mpg.  I think he is shooting 33% against D1 teams this year.  Is that your definition of  a "shooter that doesn't make shots?"   He could easily be close to 40% with regular PT.
This is the same garbage people spewed about Larry, that he couldn't shoot when his 3fg% was higher than our team average.

_Played two seasons at Truman State ... Saw action and started in all 30 games for TSU in 2021-22  ... Averaged 14.2 points, 2.9 assists and 1.9 rebounds per contest while shooting 44.9 percent from the field, *44.7 percent from behind the arc* and 88.7 percent from the charity stripe ... Made at least one 3-pointer in 29 of the 30 games he played ... *Made three or more triples in 18 games ...* Posted a career high 27 points in against UMSL on 9-of-16 shooting, including seven shots from behind the arc ... Named GLVC* Freshman of the Year* after a stellar season in 2020-21 when he averaged 11.1 points per game and was the team’s leading shooter from downtown with 62 made triples ... Started 21 games and played in 22 ... *Shot 42.5 from three* and 43.5 from the field ._





Along with Miller, I know Holmes has some non-believers.  I watched him play HS and AAU.  He may have more talent than Bledson, Hobbs, and Miller as a guard.  He might compare to Gibson.  He was a PG in HS and dominated the boards.  Appears to have all of the PG skills but probably not quick enough to play the point. Was playing pretty competitive AAU as a role player with some excellent athletes.


----------

