# Indiana State facing a football-free future?



## Jason Svoboda

Article on the football program in today's Star. Thoughts?

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...state-facing-a-football-free-future/18283525/


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## Jason Svoboda

The article is spot-on and nothing we've not been talking around here about for a couple years now. If anything, hopefully the Indiana State alumni in Indy stand up and take notice. Really wish he would have put something in there about our alumni likely supporting Indiana, Purdue or Notre Dame but I appreciate Doyel for getting us some publicity on a serious issue.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Well I can tell you this much.

A few years back, when we had the nations longest losing streak I was ready for them to pull the plug on football, I thought it was time. 

Over the last 5 years I have made a 180 on that and want to see our football program continue to grow and hopefully thrive! That said, I think before it ever thrives people (specifically the University and ISU alums) need to take a hard look at what is going on. Hopefully this is the first step.

I'm not talking to anyone on this forum because you people are awesome. But damn, if people outside of this place don't start taking ownership, don't start donating money or time to go watch our football team and hell our basketball team too then it all might be over. 

If it ever ends, I don't want to sit at home and go man I wish I woulda done something about it. I don't have to worry about that.


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## Patriot_Sycamore

Oh Boy...SSOM gets national play...will we ever stop the machine that is Twitch?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Patriot_Sycamore said:


> Oh Boy...SSOM gets national play...will we ever stop the machine that is Twitch?



I smiled.


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> If it ever ends, I don't want to sit at home and go man I wish I woulda done something about it. I don't have to worry about that.



That's exactly it for me. Once you lose your football program, you don't just get it back, either. 

I hear it all the time from my State friends that their attendance or support doesn't matter. Unfortunately, when 10,000 alumni take the same stance it certainly does. It's a compounding problem. They also complain about FBS and I just don't get that complaint. Would they rather be a 2-10 MAC team and be on ESPN2 once a year getting thrashed by Ohio State 70-3? I'd much rather be in FCS and have a blast following the team moving up the Top 25 and fighting for a playoff spot.

I will go down with this ship.


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## Jason Svoboda

Everyone here needs to open up that article and share it on social media. Also, invite people here so we can educate them further on the issues the Sycamores face. IU/PU/ND fandom IS a curable disease. With our help, these good men and women can live a complete and healthy life. They made a good choice once... they can do it again.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

I agree Jason. I think people who don't understand the changes in college athletics or just want to look at things on the surface (and Im talking about people that know me outside of here) will read my comments and think maybe I meant ill-will toward the program by making them. In fact, the exact opposite!


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I agree Jason. I think people who don't understand the changes in college athletics or just want to look at things on the surface (and Im talking about people that know me outside of here) will read my comments and think maybe I meant ill-will toward the program by making them. In fact, the exact opposite!


That's obvious by the text you sent me earlier. Whomever said that to you lacks critical reading and thinking skills. How anyone could look at this article and see it negatively is beyond me. This is a call to action for Sycamore alumni, plain and simple. This is also, however, a call to action for Sycamore athletics promotions staff and fundraisers as well.


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## sdjessie

If problems with the link here is the USAtoday link

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/


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## Mitchell

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> But damn, if people outside of this place don't start taking ownership, don't start donating money....



I really enjoyed the column and commend the person (or persons) who prodded Doyel to write it.  My only critical response is that I didn’t care for Ness’s quote *"You know what? I think it's time for you to write that $25,000 check."*

Now, I’ll concede that the quote might have been taken out of context or I’m simply over-analyzing it, but I think someone unfamiliar with the situation could read the comment and just as easily interpret Ness as saying _ “Hey, if you don’t like the way things are going then rearrange your personal priorities and scratch a check that equals 25-50 percent of your annual salary.”  _ Sorry, perhaps it was also the quote’s placement in the article, but it struck me the wrong way.

I realize the ISU folks in charge of fundraising are constantly beating the bushes, but bagging the proverbial elephant is an unlikely scenario.  I don’t want to make a huge issue out of my small observation, but I think it’s always going to be a more palatable approach to pursue a greater number of donations in the $125 - $1000 range.  Sixty thousand alumni kicking in $500 each = $30 million.  Something close to that seems to make more sense than hitting up 1200 alums for $25K each.

All written IMHO…


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## mohoops247

Great article and kudos to you all who reached out to Doyle when he was hired to have him give some attention to ISU - looks like he listened. Now alumni need to listen to him!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IndyTreeFan

Mitchell said:


> I really enjoyed the column and commend the person (or persons) who prodded Doyel to write it.  My only critical response is that I didn’t care for Ness’s quote *"You know what? I think it's time for you to write that $25,000 check."*



I agree with your statement.  That was a classless and needlessly tasteless comment.  Its point is quite valid, but you gotta be a bit more tasteful in how you state it.


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## Mitchell

IndyTreeFan said:


> I agree with your statement.  That was a classless and needlessly tasteless comment.  Its point is quite valid, but you gotta be a bit more tasteful in how you state it.



I re-read the last part of the column and can see the implication he's making, that the football program is in trouble if more funding doesn't come through.  But I also think the task might seem more doable and gain more support if fundraisers are reaching out to alums and saying _"You know, if we could just get 25 percent of our in-state alumni to become Varsity Club members at the $125 entry level contribution, then we've already raised over $1.8 million!"_  Put to me that way, it seems easy to help.  But when someone implies that the program is doomed without several $25K gifts, it almost sounds too daunting to bother.


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## IndyTreeFan

Mitchell said:


> I re-read the last part of the column and can see the implication he's making, that the football program is in trouble if more funding doesn't come through.  But I also think the task might seem more doable and gain more support if fundraisers are reaching out to alums and saying _"You know, if we could just get 25 percent of our in-state alumni to become Varsity Club members at the $125 entry level contribution, then we've already raised over $1.8 million!"_  Put to me that way, it seems easy to help.  But when someone implies that the program is doomed without several $25K gifts, it almost sounds too daunting to bother.



You nailed the problem with his statement.  Very well put.  Thank you for clarifying what I was implying...:thumbsup:


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## IndyTreeFan

Now, does anyone think that ISU will change anything with regards to football marketing and fundraising as a result of this light shining brightly on the issues they have doing either one well?


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## Jason Svoboda

The last line irked me as well because I've long said ISU focuses on the whales and trying to get big dollar donations too much. Talk about completely missing your market. Before Geoff was hired at the SAF, how many times did ISU entertain us misfits wanting to help to school? NEVER. I sincerely thank Geoff for deciding to break down that barrier. It's time others at the school embrace this place and the smaller goldfish out there. 

I've said it in the stadium threads over and over -- they need to realize and get to know their potential alumni/donor base and start grabbing $100 here and there. Has anyone been contacted by anyone from the athletic department or foundation about donating towards a stadium? Even if they aren't ready to start collecting, wouldn't it make sense to contact those that were interested so you have people to contact when you are ready?

Back to my point, those small donations add up and had they been doing it for the last 15 years, we'd likely be sitting in a different position or at the very least, a better one. Yes, it's more work but in the end you'll have more people on the proverbial hook and that is sorely needed after decades of poor alumni communication and fundraising.


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## niklz62

Jason Svoboda said:


> The last line irked me as well because I've long said ISU focuses on the whales and trying to get big dollar donations too much. Talk about completely missing your market. Before Geoff was hired at the SAF, how many times did ISU entertain us misfits wanting to help to school? NEVER. I sincerely thank Geoff for deciding to break down that barrier. It's time others are the school embrace this place and the smaller goldfish out there.
> 
> I've said it in the stadium threads over and over -- they need to realize and get to know their potential alumni/donor base and start grabbing $100 here and there. Has anyone been contacted by anyone from the athletic department or foundation about donating towards a stadium? Even if they aren't ready to start collecting, wouldn't it make sense to contact those that were interested so you have people to contact when you are ready?
> 
> Back to my point, those small donations add up and had they been doing it for the last 15 years, we'd likely be sitting in a different position or at the very least, a better one. Yes, it's more work but in the end you'll have more people on the proverbial hook and that is sorely needed after decades of poor alumni communication and fundraising.



Many of those last 15 years involved a person(s) who's name I will not speak who would have put that article in their scrapbook.


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## IndyTreeFan

niklz62 said:


> Many of those last 15 years involved a person(s) who's name I will not speak who would have put that article in their scrapbook.



Yes, SHE would have...


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## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> Now, does anyone think that ISU will change anything with regards to football marketing and fundraising as a result of this light shining brightly on the issues they have doing either one well?



Until they PROVE IT, I doubt it. Thanks Coach Sanford for that mantra... I say we adopt it across the University. 

You know how a lot of folks on campus respond to this sort of thing. They'll simply say "all you are is negative," stick their head back in the sand and blow it off. That is the bullshit excuse I hear from school employees whenever the site is mentioned. Can't tell you how many times I've heard it. I usually smirk because that helps me identify parts of the root problem. I've always said if I ever hit the lottery, I'd take a multi-million dollar check into Dr. Bradley's office with a list of people I'd want to see shit canned immediately. If any of you hit, I expect the same.

Are there some negative posts here? You betcha. It's also deeply rooted in the fact that things have been ran so abysmally and completely ignored that those of use that truly bleed blue can't do anything else but vent our frustrations especially when those in charge continue to keep their jobs. That said, there is a virtual treasure trove of information, suggestions and marketing ideas on this board going all the way back to 2007. We can probably count on one or two hands how many things have been tried or implemented since that time. 

If I was a new hire at Indiana State in athletics, facilities, ticket sales, fundraising or any business related area, I'd register on this site, ask people to point me to the "must read" material, search on keywords that I observe as strengths/weaknesses after I surveyed the job for a little, and then invite a group of them to campus to sit down for a brainstorming session on how to make things better and to find out what makes them tick. I'd empower my alumni, especially those that live and breathe my athletic programs that have been proverbial shit sandwiches for decades because they're obviously a special sort of crazy that I need to figure out how to bottle up and share with my apathetic portion. 

So uh... yeah, until they PROVE IT, I doubt it.


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## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> *I'd empower my alumni, especially those that live and breathe my athletic programs that have been proverbial shit sandwiches for decades because they're obviously a special sort of crazy that I need to figure out how to bottle up and share with my apathetic portion.*



A "special sort of crazy."  I like it.  That could be the motto for this site.  I perfectly describes most of us...:rabidfan:


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## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> Until they PROVE IT, I doubt it. Thanks Coach Sanford for that mantra... I say we adopt it across the University.
> 
> You know how a lot of folks on campus respond to this sort of thing. They'll simply say "all you are is negative," stick their head back in the sand and blow it off. That is the bullshit excuse I hear from school employees whenever the site is mentioned. Can't tell you how many times I've heard it. I usually smirk because that helps me identify parts of the root problem. I've always said if I ever hit the lottery, I'd take a multi-million dollar check into Dr. Bradley's office with a list of people I'd want to see shit canned immediately. If any of you hit, I expect the same.
> 
> Are there some negative posts here? You betcha. It's also deeply rooted in the fact that things have been ran so abysmally and completely ignored that those of use that truly bleed blue can't do anything else but vent our frustrations especially when those in charge continue to keep their jobs. That said, there is a virtual treasure trove of information, suggestions and marketing ideas on this board going all the way back to 2007. We can probably count on one or two hands how many things have been tried or implemented since that time.
> 
> If I was a new hire at Indiana State in athletics, facilities, ticket sales, fundraising or any business related area, I'd register on this site, ask people to point me to the "must read" material, search on keywords that I observe as strengths/weaknesses after I surveyed the job for a little, and then invite a group of them to campus to sit down for a brainstorming session on how to make things better and to find out what makes them tick. I'd empower my alumni, especially those that live and breathe my athletic programs that have been proverbial shit sandwiches for decades because they're obviously a special sort of crazy that I need to figure out how to bottle up and share with my apathetic portion.
> 
> So uh... yeah, until they PROVE IT, I doubt it.



I have always found it interesting that although ISU cries about not having any support and how hard it is to get people to come to games (be it basketball or football), they, to my knowledge, have never tried any of the hundreds of suggestions from this site.  And, therefore, nothing ever changes.  I'm not saying everything we've ever kicked around on here would work, but some of it would.  And no one has ever tried.  Or talked to any of us.  The first rule of marketing is to know your audience.  I'd say we're the audience.  No one cares about ISU sports like we do.  Yes, a special sort of crazy.


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## niklz62

I'm going to step back for one moment.

I am now going to read this article like I would if I read something like this:

"US facing future where Ebola is everywhere."

Ya, maybe?  Probably not.  How about this one after the BigTen's commissioner/president or king whatever's comments regarding paying players.

"Northwestern players union victory takes first step to BigTen's move to D3 football"


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## Mitchell

Jason Svoboda said:


> -- they need to realize and get to know their potential alumni/donor base and start grabbing $100 here and there...



This isn't necessarily specific to football, but I also think an effort needs to be made to target former Indiana State athletes as donors.  I have no idea how many already make contributions (restricted or otherwise) via Varsity Club membership , but I often wonder how many don't.  Former Sycamore athletes giving back to the athletic program should be a sustaining source of funding that grows each year.


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## Jason Svoboda

Mitchell said:


> This isn't necessarily specific to football, but I also think an effort needs to be made to target former Indiana State athletes as donors.  I have no idea how many already make contributions (restricted or otherwise) via Varsity Club membership , but I often wonder how many don't.  Former Sycamore athletes giving back to the athletic program should be a sustaining source of funding that grows each year.



Well, they don't break them down on the annual report, but if you just leave the search box blank and hit enter you'll see all of the donors for the year. After you get the entire list up, hit Alt-F and then type in some popular names from the last 20 years. I think you'll see just how low that number is and have a good indication. 

http://www.indstate.edu/foundation/donors/


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## STATE Fan 95

I would think the powers that be would let us know how dire the program is before they start to close the door.  Would the big donors let it happen?  Would the little donors donate if they knew it was bad?   I would like to see where things stand on the program/ stadium.   I guess I am a guilty as any one and I should and will donate to the program.   I remember Western Kentucky almost dropping football and a couple years or so the won it all.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

STATE Fan 95 said:


> I would think the powers that be would let us know how dire the program is before they start to close the door.  Would the big donors let it happen?  Would the little donors donate if they knew it was bad?   I would like to see where things stand on the program/ stadium.   I guess I am a guilty as any one and I should and will donate to the program.   I remember Western Kentucky almost dropping football and a couple years or so the won it all.



Oh I wouldn't be so sure of that. I mean what else do you need to know to know its in trouble as it is? 

- NCAA changes making it more and more challenging 

- Memorial Stadium in dire straits and the need for a new facility

- Lack of alumni or fan support. Includes attendance and donations

Notice, none of this has anything to do with the actual on the flield product. Of course, we write this off as looney toons on Sycamore Pride being overly negative and dramatic or we can actually accept the hard truth and work to be better. The first is what always happns, the second is more logical. 

We've had plenty of RA RA articles written in the Tribune Star, none of those seemed to garner any additional support from our alumni base. It's time we start ackowledging the problem and doing something about it.

We didn't get in this position over night and we aint coming out of it over night either. Continue to ignore it and we will never come out of it.


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## IndyTreeFan

Oh those darned cranks over at sycamorepride.com...

:chokeout:


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## 4Q_iu

So.... IF the decision is made to shutter the program; because of the insatiable greed of the Power 5, fewer opportunities to schedule 'money ((FBS)) games'; the cost of a new Wabash River football stadium;  WHAT sport(s) should / could replace football?

Men's Lacrosse (12.6 scholarships)
Men's Tennis (4.5 scholarships)
Men's Golf (4.5 scholarships)
Wrestling (9.9 scholarships)
Men's Soccer (9.9 scholarships)
Women's Tennis (8 scholarships)
Men's Swimming (9.9 scholarships)

We'd add 7 sports and still have 4 scholarships we were no longer funding.   The Tennis, Golf and Swim/Dive Teams could/would share a coach; could soccer?

The Valley currently sanctions / sponors ALL of the sports above EXCEPT Men's Swim/Dive, Lacrosse and Wrestling -- requiring independence OR associate conf membership...   current Valley schools w/ Men's Swim/Dive teams compete in the MAC...

What would most folks say?  ANYTHING??

Thoughts?


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## bent20

Well, one thing can be said for Doyle, he heard those of you who wrote him and he wrote a thoughtful piece without any of the historical biases and presumptions that others before him held. Really well researched article. Wish he could have pressed Indiana State administrators a little bit more on what, if any, plans they have going forward. Are they truly just waiting and watching, or trying to be proactive in some way?


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## IndyTreeFan

4Q_iu said:


> So.... IF the decision is made to shutter the program; because of the insatiable greed of the Power 5, fewer opportunities to schedule 'money ((FBS)) games'; the cost of a new Wabash River football stadium;  WHAT sport(s) should / could replace football?
> 
> Men's Lacrosse (12.6 scholarships)
> Men's Tennis (4.5 scholarships)
> Men's Golf (4.5 scholarships)
> Wrestling (9.9 scholarships)
> Men's Soccer (9.9 scholarships)
> Women's Tennis (8 scholarships)
> Men's Swimming (9.9 scholarships)
> 
> We'd add 7 sports and still have 4 scholarships we were no longer funding.   The Tennis, Golf and Swim/Dive Teams could/would share a coach; could soccer?
> 
> The Valley currently sanctions / sponors ALL of the sports above EXCEPT Men's Swim/Dive, Lacrosse and Wrestling -- requiring independence OR associate conf membership...   current Valley schools w/ Men's Swim/Dive teams compete in the MAC...
> 
> What would most folks say?  ANYTHING??
> 
> Thoughts?



I know this will sound like sour grapes, but if we cut football, I'd say just drop to D-III and stop the charade.  There isn't a sport you listed that would do anything to connect me to ISU.  It might be forced upon us, but what the heck.  No one supports the athletic program anyway.  Even if we have the loss of football foisted upon us, we'd have to drop divisions or, as 4Q stated above, add a sport or sports that no one gives a crap about.  That's a red line for me.  But that's just my opinion.


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## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> Well, one thing can be said for Doyle, he heard those of you who wrote him and he wrote a thoughtful piece without any of the historical biases and presumptions that others before him held. Really well researched article. Wish he could have pressed Indiana State administrators a little bit more on what, if any, plans they have going forward. Are they truly just waiting and watching, or trying to be proactive in some way?



How much more pro-active can they be?   They have a site identified __ SEE MASTER PLAN;  They obivously have SOME cost estimates ($80-$100 Million), which means they have SOME design / engineering in mind.

Until we (FCS schools) KNOW what the future TRULY holds for non-"power five" football, what more CAN they do?


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## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> I know this will sound like sour grapes, but if we cut football, I'd say just drop to D-III and stop the charade.  There isn't a sport you listed that would do anything to connect me to ISU.  It might be forced upon us, but what the heck.  No one supports the athletic program anyway.  Even if we have the loss of football foisted upon us, we'd have to drop divisions or, as 4Q stated above, add a sport or sports that no one gives a crap about.  That's a red line for me.  But that's just my opinion.



Well, we're NOT going to drop to Div III or even Div II --- that's NOT going to happen.

So... would even adding SOME of the sports above 'fill the void?'  

Or are you saying the *ONLY connection* you have to State is ISU Football?

Why would we 'HAVE' to drop divisions?   There are ~100+ NCAA Div I conference schools that play ZERO varsity, intercollegiate, scholarship football... We can stay EXACTLY where we are -- Div I_MVC members


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## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> What would most folks say?  ANYTHING?? Thoughts?



To maintain Division 1 eligibility, you must have 7/7 or 6/8 men's/women's sports with at least 2 being team sports. There would be absolutely no reason for Indiana State to add additional non-revenue sports to replace football beyond getting into compliance. Right now here is how we look:

Men's Sports (5 sports, all team)
Baseball (11.7 equivalencies, team)
Basketball (13.0 head count, team)
Cross Country (12.6 equivalencies shared with track & field, team)
Football (63.0 equivalencies, team)
Track & Field (shares with xc, team)

Total: 100.3 scholarships

Women's Sports (7 sports, all team with 8th sport coming)
Basketball (15.0 head count, team)
Cross Country (18.0 equivalencies shared with track & field, team)
Golf (6.0 equivalencies, team)
Soccer (14.0 equivalencies, team)
Softball (12.0 equivalencies, team)
Track & Field (shares with xc, team)
Volleyball (12.0 head count, team)

Total: 77.0 scholarships

They are adding Women's Swimming & Diving which allows for 14.0 equivalencies. Once they add this, it will give them 91.0 female scholarships. So even with adding the new sport, we still don't meet the Division 1 requirement and we're not Title IX compliant, either. Now if you drop football and take away 63 scholarships from the men's column, you drop the side of the ledger to 37.3 scholarships. So, if you're Indiana State and complaining about costs with a revenue sport like football, why would you do anything else beside add the two smallest male sports that require no additional facilities? In that case, you add 2 of these 3: men's golf (4.5 scholarships), men's tennis (4.5 scholarships) or men's volleyball (4.5 scholarships). 

With this scenario you add 9 scholarships back to the men's total bringing them up to 46.3. You are now fully Division 1 compliant and WELL into the black on Title IX compliance. You've also managed to take 54 scholarships off the books. This is what a University worried about costs would do, not add additional sports, especially non revenue sports. Just so we're clear and people aren't at my door with pitchforks, I in no way want this to happen. I'm just trying to illustrate my point.


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## IndyTreeFan

4Q_iu said:


> Well, we're NOT going to drop to Div III or even Div II --- that's NOT going to happen.
> 
> So... would even adding SOME of the sports above 'fill the void?'
> 
> Or are you saying the *ONLY connection* you have to State is ISU Football?
> 
> Why would we 'HAVE' to drop divisions?   There are ~100+ NCAA Div I conference schools that play ZERO varsity, intercollegiate, scholarship football... We can stay EXACTLY where we are -- Div I_MVC members



First off, football isn't my only connection, but athletics pretty much is.  Drop football, and we're going to drop divisions because we are already at the minimum number of sports for D-1.  So, we'd have to add another sport (which I could care less about).  To me, and this is just to me, it speaks of the true level of our program.  Thanks to inept administration, we have been running a D-II athletic department masquerading as a D-I for about 30 years.  Maybe it's just time to accept what we are, if we can no longer keep football, because I've been around ISU long enough to figure that while one might think we could pump that money into basketball and become Wichita State 2.0, I'd say the chances are better that the money would magically disappear.  

I don't want any of that to happen, but I would sure lose most of my interest in ISU, because the only thing we'd have to hang our hat on is basketball, which is as frustrating a team as you'll ever see.  Football is college sports, to me.  I just hate to contemplate it being gone.  I also realize that it might be out of our hands.


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## Jason Svoboda

Now, with that out of the way, dropping football IMO would have a pretty significant financial impact on Terre Haute. 

I've been told by numerous people that bars, restaurants and other businesses count on Homecoming weekend to insulate them against the rest of the year. That sounds like bad business to me but I digress. You have alumni coming back to Terre Haute and filling every hotel in the area. You have them going out to eat at all of the restaurants, buying food/drink for alumni tents, going out to bars to relive their glory days, etc. Then on Saturday you have students, alumni and a lot of non ISU affiliated people in town to do The Walk. Cash flows the entire weekend long.

The only thing that ties Homecoming to Memorial Stadium is football, well attended or not. If you were to drop football and continue to have Homecoming at Memorial, I would venture a guess that attendance would be poor. It probably would have a decent showing for a couple years but the atmosphere out there would eventually kill it with a giant stadium graveyard sitting right there. You'd probably then have ISU try to move it on or close to campus which would deliver the final death blow. You've then eliminated the economic stimuli, taken away the school's biggest potential fundraising event and pretty much relegated your school into an IUPUI or USI. 

You don't recover from that and your alumni become even more disconnected and apathetic. Game over.


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## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> Now, with that out of the way, dropping football IMO would have a pretty significant financial impact on Terre Haute.
> 
> I've been told by numerous people that bars, restaurants and other businesses count on Homecoming weekend to insulate them against the rest of the year. That sounds like bad business to me but I digress. You have alumni coming back to Terre Haute and filling every hotel in the area. You have them going out to eat at all of the restaurants, buying food/drink for alumni tents, going out to bars to relive their glory days, etc. Then on Saturday you have students, alumni and a lot of non ISU affiliated people in town to do The Walk. Cash flows the entire weekend long.
> 
> The only thing that ties Homecoming to Memorial Stadium is football, well attended or not. If you were to drop football and continue to have Homecoming at Memorial, I would venture a guess that attendance would be poor. It probably would have a decent showing for a couple years but the atmosphere out there would eventually kill it with a giant stadium graveyard sitting right there. You'd probably then have ISU try to move it on or close to campus which would deliver the final death blow. You've then eliminated the economic stimuli, taken away the school's biggest potential fundraising event and pretty much relegated your school into an IUPUI or USI.
> 
> You don't recover from that and your alumni become even more disconnected and apathetic. Game over.



How do you even have Homecoming without football?  That whole idea seems beyond idiotic to me...


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## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> How do you even have Homecoming without football?  That whole idea seems beyond idiotic to me...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_non-football_programs

That is the list of Division 1 non-football schools. I just went to Google and search for a school's name homecoming 2014. 

Here is Radford's Homecoming: http://www.radford.edu/content/homecoming/home/events.html
IUPUI's Homecoming: http://studentaffairs.iupui.edu/inv...ons/homecoming/2014-homecoming-schedule.shtml

Looks like they just schedule a ton of events and slap the Homecoming sticker on it.


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## Mitchell

Jason Svoboda said:


> Well, they don't break them down on the annual report, but if you just leave the search box blank and hit enter you'll see all of the donors for the year. After you get the entire list up, hit Alt-F and then type in some popular names from the last 20 years. I think you'll see just how low that number is and have a good indication.
> 
> http://www.indstate.edu/foundation/donors/



Tested this tool by typing in the names of a few of my teammates from back in the day.  Most illuminating...and not in a good way.


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## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> How do you even have Homecoming without football?  That whole idea seems beyond idiotic to me...



As 'Boda points out --- you have Homecoming however you CHOOSE to have Homecoming.

Would a 'MBB / WBB'-themed Homecoming have the same FEEL as a the current football oriented one?  No.  But you can call it whatever you wish...


As to dropping divisions, THAT will NOT happen.  IF football were to be shuttered, State WOULD add 1-2 men's sports -- we are NOT going to drop to Div II.     Do THAT and then you WILL see a financial hit to State and T-H.

I want to keep football, but I cannot fund it.   I see the most pragmatic approach... if we must, shutter.   At one point, I'd say a move to the Pioneer League would have made sense BUT you have some of the cost (coaching, equipment and we'd STILL need a 'new' stadium.)

If necessary, shutter football and re-direct those resources into other sports, higher coaching salaries, higher recruiting budgets.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Now, with that out of the way, dropping football IMO would have a pretty significant financial impact on Terre Haute.
> 
> I've been told by numerous people that bars, restaurants and other businesses count on Homecoming weekend to insulate them against the rest of the year. That sounds like bad business to me but I digress. You have alumni coming back to Terre Haute and filling every hotel in the area. You have them going out to eat at all of the restaurants, buying food/drink for alumni tents, going out to bars to relive their glory days, etc. Then on Saturday you have students, alumni and a lot of non ISU affiliated people in town to do The Walk. Cash flows the entire weekend long.
> 
> The only thing that ties Homecoming to Memorial Stadium is football, well attended or not. If you were to drop football and continue to have Homecoming at Memorial, I would venture a guess that attendance would be poor. It probably would have a decent showing for a couple years but the atmosphere out there would eventually kill it with a giant stadium graveyard sitting right there. You'd probably then have ISU try to move it on or close to campus which would deliver the final death blow. You've then eliminated the economic stimuli, taken away the school's biggest potential fundraising event and pretty much relegated your school into an IUPUI or USI.
> 
> You don't recover from that and your alumni become even more disconnected and apathetic. Game over.



If T-H counts on State's Homecoming THAT much --- then I recommend we consider EACH Home football game Homecoming!

And I agree w/ some of the points in Doyel's story --- if MORE of the 16,000 Alumni who are in Indpls would DRIVE the 65 minutes to State for EACH home football game, you would have some of the revenue you need.

My greatest fear --- we get a commitment to football now and build a new stadium and THEN the greater ncaa div 1_FBS forces align us and the rest of FCS and we're left w/ a White Elephant on the Banks of the Wabash


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_non-football_programs
> 
> That is the list of Division 1 non-football schools. I just went to Google and search for a school's name homecoming 2014.
> 
> Here is Radford's Homecoming: http://www.radford.edu/content/homecoming/home/events.html
> IUPUI's Homecoming: http://studentaffairs.iupui.edu/inv...ons/homecoming/2014-homecoming-schedule.shtml
> 
> Looks like they just schedule a ton of events and slap the Homecoming sticker on it.



Wow.  That looks really boring.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> If T-H counts on State's Homecoming THAT much --- then I recommend we consider EACH Home football game Homecoming!
> 
> And I agree w/ some of the points in Doyel's story --- if MORE of the 16,000 Alumni who are in Indpls would DRIVE the 65 minutes to State for EACH home football game, you would have some of the revenue you need.
> 
> My greatest fear --- we get a commitment to football now and build a new stadium and THEN the greater ncaa div 1_FBS forces align us and the rest of FCS and we're left w/ a White Elephant on the Banks of the Wabash



If you're keeping the football program, what FBS does is irrelevant if you energize your fans and alumni. Let's say the Power 5 does pull away and money games go away. So we've just lost about a $400-500k payday. Now what?

IMO, if that happens, I fully expect FCS to join the FBS "have nots" and become a unified tier because those teams will need more opponents to play having had the carpet yanked out from underneath them as well. Since most of those schools also have funding hurdles, I would imagine you see this tier go back to it's roots. I think you'd probably see some conference realignment to make it more regionalized like it used to be. This would lower costs especially travel costs. The indirect benefit because of this would be increased visitor attendance. Let's take Ball State. We'd likely get a pretty decent Ball State crowd in Terre Haute, no? That's probably good for a couple thousand ticket sales alone. The loss of rivalries and quick travel away games cannot be overstated enough in the decline in attendance IMO.

Moving on, what is the easiest way to make more up? Football game days. I still fully believe that if ISU were to sell alcohol at football games it would not only increase ticket sales but they'd have nice concession receipts. As of right now, the only way to get a beer in the stadium is if you join the Varsity Club and go over to the Touchdown Corner tent. You know how many times I went to the tent this year? Zero. When I'm at the game it pains me to leave my seat as I don't want to miss anything. Unless I absolutely have to go to the bathroom, I'm firmly planted in my seat -- unless it is time to stand for a key 3rd down stop. If I could have a beer in my seat, I'd be in Heaven. 

Marketing note to the folks at ISU. Last week's game was COLD. Your vendors brought hot dogs and popcorn through the stands. When it is bitterly cold, what do you think you should be sending out? HOT DRINKS. I'd pay an extra $0.50 to $1.00 to have hot chocolate delivered to my seat at cold weather games. So your 500% profit margin on the $3.00 hot chocolate shoots up another 50-100%. It's a no brainer, slam dunk.  

Outside of alcohol sales, corporate sponsors buying suites/boxes would probably make money, especially if this new tier formed. Even without that, I think if promoted correctly, you could sustain it. It's all about having business and relationship-minded people in all facets of the process. Right now, it is painfully obvious that just isn't the case.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> If you're keeping the football program, what FBS does is irrelevant if you energize your fans and alumni. Let's say the Power 5 does pull away and money games go away. So we've just lost about a $400-500k payday. Now what?
> 
> IMO, if that happens, I fully expect FCS to join the FBS "have nots" and become a unified tier because those teams will need more opponents to play having had the carpet yanked out from underneath them as well. Since most of those schools also have funding hurdles, I would imagine you see this tier go back to it's roots. I think you'd probably see some conference realignment to make it more regionalized like it used to be. This would lower costs especially travel costs. The indirect benefit because of this would be increased visitor attendance. Let's take Ball State. We'd likely get a pretty decent Ball State crowd in Terre Haute, no? That's probably good for a couple thousand ticket sales alone. The loss of rivalries and quick travel away games cannot be overstated enough in the decline in attendance IMO.
> 
> Moving on, what is the easiest way to make more up? Football game days. I still fully believe that if ISU were to sell alcohol at football games it would not only increase ticket sales but they'd have nice concession receipts. As of right now, the only way to get a beer in the stadium is if you join the Varsity Club and go over to the Touchdown Corner tent. You know how many times I went to the tent this year? Zero. When I'm at the game it pains me to leave my seat as I don't want to miss anything. Unless I absolutely have to go to the bathroom, I'm firmly planted in my seat -- unless it is time to stand for a key 3rd down stop. If I could have a beer in my seat, I'd be in Heaven.
> 
> Marketing note to the folks at ISU. Last week's game was COLD. Your vendors brought hot dogs and popcorn through the stands. When it is bitterly cold, what do you think you should be sending out? HOT DRINKS. I'd pay an extra $0.50 to $1.00 to have hot chocolate delivered to my seat at cold weather games. So your 500% profit margin on the $3.00 hot chocolate shoots up another 50-100%. It's a no brainer, slam dunk.
> 
> Outside of alcohol sales, corporate sponsors buying suites/boxes would probably make money, especially if this new tier formed. Even without that, I think if promoted correctly, you could sustain it. It's all about having business and relationship-minded people in all facets of the process. Right now, it is painfully obvious that just isn't the case.



FYI...last week we got hot chocolate and hot apple cider delivered to our seats.  The two kids selling it were all over the stadium, so they must have run out every time they got near you!  :lol:

I think your model would work well.  Most fans are under no illusions that their school is going to compete for a spot in the college football playoff.  I would hope we could stay in the MVFC, though, since that's a better conference than any other option we'd have.  I could see realignment moving us to the MAC, though, which would make Bally and some of the other more seasoned alumni very, very happy!!!

I have thought for some time that the non-P5 football schools will join with the top tier of FCS (MVFC, CAA, Big Sky) to form a new division that will continue with a playoff structure that is already in place.  I could see a change in scholarships to 74 for schools in this new tier.  We have stated our desire to be in that "second level" of football, so to do so would require a new stadium, with new marketing.  That's why I think we should get started on fundraising for the new stadium NOW.  If the landscape changes to the point where we're out of football, I think that happens before we've sunk shovel #1 into the ground.

Announce your plans and start selling bricks for the plaza area outside the stadium for $100 each, for which you can have them engraved with some text of your choice.

Above all, I'd like to see some FIGHT out of ISU for a change, rather than just bellyaching.  Let's plan for what's going to happen, and then work with our peer institutions to MAKE it happen.

Oh yes, and ISU should hire some real marketing professionals to make this all work.  Not athletics employees, not Nelligan, but professionals who know how to develop and audience and sell a product.  That would be a must.  Hey, you've gotta spend money to make money...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> FYI...last week we got hot chocolate and hot apple cider delivered to our seats.  The two kids selling it were all over the stadium, so they must have run out every time they got near you!  :lol:



Sonuva. I even asked the kid that came by with hotdogs/popcorn and he told me they weren't selling it. I probably would have bought 2-3 of them for myself. Hell, I would have given the kid a fiver to bring me one had he offered. Instead I had one that Nick brought me when he went to get his. Don't you sit up above me? I'm in Section F, Row 2.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> Sonuva. I even asked the kid that came by with hotdogs/popcorn and he told me they weren't selling it. I probably would have bought 2-3 of them for myself. Hell, I would have given the kid a fiver to bring me one had he offered. Instead I had one that Nick brought me when he went to get his. Don't you sit up above me? I'm in Section F, Row 2.



I'm 44 rows above you.  How on earth did you miss them?  I know I saw them selling to people around you...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

niklz62 said:


> I'm going to step back for one moment.
> 
> I am now going to read this article like I would if I read something like this:
> 
> "US facing future where Ebola is everywhere."
> 
> Ya, maybe?  Probably not.  How about this one after the BigTen's commissioner/president or king whatever's comments regarding paying players.
> 
> "Northwestern players union victory takes first step to BigTen's move to D3 football"



Even without anything happening in the NCAA landscape, we've still got Ebola. When you're operating at a 75% subsidy from school funds and student fees, you're not running a successful athletic department.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> I'm 44 rows above you.  How on earth did you miss them?  I know I saw them selling to people around you...



Never came by me. Must have come in the other stairwell. That's my luck. I was frozen solid by the end of the game. Thankfully the bathrooms were uber warm.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> Never came by me. Must have come in the other stairwell. That's my luck. I was frozen solid by the end of the game. Thankfully the bathrooms were uber warm.



I can sympathize.  I was pretty much an icicle by the time it was over.  I'm wearing even more clothing tomorrow!!!


----------



## niklz62

You know, I've been waiting for this game all week and Friday gets here which is kind of like my finish line for football anticipation and some writer decides that, during a great season, he will write an article about a tired subject in so doing takes a huge dinosaur size shit on my whole weekend. 

You know who else is about as close to dropping football as we are?  Half of FCS. 

I don't know how our budget compares to other places but we were ahead of a lot of schools in total budget. 

I find it ABSOLUTELY STUNNING that this is the state of our program, which I suspect is doing better than it was a few years back.  I think the quotes from administrators were a bit of coach speak. I think they may have paraphrased their actual quotes "I ain't sayin shit"
How in the world are the rest of comparable schools that either sucked or dropped football scholarships or football altogether jumping back in FCS or even going FBS and we are talking about what is going to happen. 

I'll admit, Im not a Varsity Club member but I'm probably going to join pretty soon but I'm skeptical to do it immediately because I don't want people to throw out dropping football every time they need some more cash. I'm afraid it would be just like teachers unions threatening strikes in the middle of football season here. I have faith in RP and all the guys in the Athletic department. Maybe this article will shine a light on the need for a new stadium. 

Winning tomorrow would give the program a lot more teeth if they tried to yank it.  7 wins in arguably the toughest MVC season ever.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

Would you guys rather have a struggling FCS football program and an average mid-major basketball team....or dump the football team and build a pretty good mid-major basketball program?


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> If you're keeping the football program, what FBS does is irrelevant if you energize your fans and alumni. Let's say the Power 5 does pull away and money games go away. So we've just lost about a $400-500k payday. Now what?
> 
> IMO, if that happens, I fully expect FCS to join the FBS "have nots" and become a unified tier because those teams will need more opponents to play having had the carpet yanked out from underneath them as well. Since most of those schools also have funding hurdles, I would imagine you see this tier go back to it's roots. I think you'd probably see some conference realignment to make it more regionalized like it used to be. This would lower costs especially travel costs. The indirect benefit because of this would be increased visitor attendance. Let's take Ball State. We'd likely get a pretty decent Ball State crowd in Terre Haute, no? That's probably good for a couple thousand ticket sales alone. The loss of rivalries and quick travel away games cannot be overstated enough in the decline in attendance IMO.




Agree -- this is the $400,000-$500,000 question --- how DO we regain that $$$?    I think that there are SOME schools in the 'rest of the FBS' that BELIEVE they can move up to that 'next level' -- I think they're DELUSIONAL but I believe THEY think they can.

A 2nd tier comprised of C-USA, SunBelt, MAC and the best of FCS is quite realistic; the AAC and Mtn West schools have enough $$ to continue to compete at FBS



Jason Svoboda said:


> Outside of alcohol sales, corporate sponsors buying suites/boxes would probably make money, especially if this new tier formed. Even without that, I think if promoted correctly, you could sustain it. It's all about having business and relationship-minded people in all facets of the process. Right now, it is painfully obvious that just isn't the case.



Agree --- get 5,000 - 7,500 Indpls-metro area_based alumni to attend EVERY home football game add the CURRENT dedicated 5,000 and start marketing the hell outta the team --- especially on a season like this year; 6-3, compete well vs. the incestuous infidels of gloomington, Beat Lil' Brother and TAKE BACK OUR Victory Bell and spend MOST of the season in the Top 25 while they make a run at the playoffs -- you gotta MARKET that kinda stuff!


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreinTexas said:


> Would you guys rather have a struggling FCS football program and an average mid-major basketball team....or dump the football team and build a pretty good mid-major basketball program?



I'd rather have a nationally competitive FCS football program and a very good mid-major basketball program.  This isn't an either/or situation.  But some culture changes will have to happen.  Besides, I'm not convinced that dumping football would mean anything to basketball.  This is ISU, where dollars go to disappear...


----------



## Greene Co.

Jason Svoboda said:


> Well, they don't break them down on the annual report, but if you just leave the search box blank and hit enter you'll see all of the donors for the year. After you get the entire list up, hit Alt-F and then type in some popular names from the last 20 years. I think you'll see just how low that number is and have a good indication.
> 
> http://www.indstate.edu/foundation/donors/



Doing all we can,with one on campus and one going next year.  Not large donations but.....kind of cool to see my wife and I on the list of donors.


----------



## bent20

4Q_iu said:


> How much more pro-active can they be?   They have a site identified __ SEE MASTER PLAN;  They obivously have SOME cost estimates ($80-$100 Million), which means they have SOME design / engineering in mind.
> 
> Until we (FCS schools) KNOW what the future TRULY holds for non-"power five" football, what more CAN they do?



You call that proactive? They have a plan they seem to be acting on at a snail's pace, it exists somewhere on the Internet and that's enough for you? Some of these people are making six figures and you're good with that being the best they can offer? There are people with strategies for winning the lottery that have a better chance of success than we do if our leaders are content to create a plan, stick it up on the Internet and then just let it sit there, providing no further vision or updates for the alumni who would potentially be inspired to fund said plans.


----------



## bent20

SycamoreinTexas said:


> Would you guys rather have a struggling FCS football program and an average mid-major basketball team....or dump the football team and build a pretty good mid-major basketball program?



Why is everyone so quick to assume having A LITTLE more money for basketball is going to make that much of a difference for the basketball program? I haven't even seen any real figures to show how much more basketball would get in the end if we cut football. Funny people make that argument, too, when the basketball program has been enjoying more success of late than it has since the 70s and a short stretch in the late 90s.


----------



## bent20

What frustrates me most is the lack of clear vision from our leadership at Indiana State. If they have an actual plan in place, give us updates, give us a vision, give us something to end the constant guessing game and never ending string of questions. Don't just wait and see how everything shakes out. For once, make sure Indiana State is ahead of the game, not just reacting and trying to tread water. If you do that with something like football it will be noticed. If you don't, people will assume the football program isn't going to last and you'll never be able to find the funding to build a new stadium. Isn't that obvious?


----------



## bent20

niklz62 said:


> You know, I've been waiting for this game all week and Friday gets here which is kind of like my finish line for football anticipation and some writer decides that, during a great season, he will write an article about a tired subject in so doing takes a huge dinosaur size shit on my whole weekend.
> 
> You know who else is about as close to dropping football as we are?  Half of FCS.
> 
> I don't know how our budget compares to other places but we were ahead of a lot of schools in total budget.
> 
> I find it ABSOLUTELY STUNNING that this is the state of our program, which I suspect is doing better than it was a few years back.  I think the quotes from administrators were a bit of coach speak. I think they may have paraphrased their actual quotes "I ain't sayin shit"
> How in the world are the rest of comparable schools that either sucked or dropped football scholarships or football altogether jumping back in FCS or even going FBS and we are talking about what is going to happen.
> 
> I'll admit, Im not a Varsity Club member but I'm probably going to join pretty soon but I'm skeptical to do it immediately because I don't want people to throw out dropping football every time they need some more cash. I'm afraid it would be just like teachers unions threatening strikes in the middle of football season here. I have faith in RP and all the guys in the Athletic department. Maybe this article will shine a light on the need for a new stadium.
> 
> Winning tomorrow would give the program a lot more teeth if they tried to yank it.  7 wins in arguably the toughest MVC season ever.



I understand where you're coming from and I wish he'd actually cover the team, too, rather than choose now to rehash the state of our program. But at least it does raise the point that we need more alumni support. We need those people in Indy, who graduate from ISU and then turn their backs on the university, to acknowledge what we have. That said, I understand why they do turn their backs. I get tired of everyone in and around ISU taking a shit on themselves. We can ask our sports teams to win all the games they can but it won't change anything until the people at the university start to change the culture, the overall morale of the institution. The football team ends up becoming the poster boy for all things sad and disappointing at state and then when they do well, we expect them to put all of that on their shoulders and overcome all of the problems we have, to prove we're better than WE think we are. Sorry if that sounds big and overly dramatic, but it really is the truth.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> You call that proactive? They have a plan they seem to be acting on at a snail's pace, it exists somewhere on the Internet and that's enough for you? Some of these people are making six figures and you're good with that being the best they can offer? There are people with strategies for winning the lottery that have a better chance of success than we do if our leaders are content to create a plan, stick it up on the Internet and then just let it sit there, providing no further vision or updates for the alumni who would potentially be inspired to fund said plans.




Well --- since you're ready to fund the new stadium, send Dr Bradley that sack of cash.

if you DON'T have that bag of cash... what do YOU need to see before YOU send in that check for $100M?

- they have the land (or most of it)

if we CAN'T sustain the football team, is it really necessary to build a $100M football stadium?


----------



## shootingsycamore

IndyTreeFan said:


> FYI...last week we got hot chocolate and hot apple cider delivered to our seats.  The two kids selling it were all over the stadium, so they must have run out every time they got near you!  :lol:
> 
> I think your model would work well.  Most fans are under no illusions that their school is going to compete for a spot in the college football playoff.  I would hope we could stay in the MVFC, though, since that's a better conference than any other option we'd have.  I could see realignment moving us to the MAC, though, which would make Bally and some of the other more seasoned alumni very, very happy!!!
> 
> I have thought for some time that the non-P5 football schools will join with the top tier of FCS (MVFC, CAA, Big Sky) to form a new division that will continue with a playoff structure that is already in place.  I could see a change in scholarships to 74 for schools in this new tier.  We have stated our desire to be in that "second level" of football, so to do so would require a new stadium, with new marketing.  That's why I think we should get started on fundraising for the new stadium NOW.  If the landscape changes to the point where we're out of football, I think that happens before we've sunk shovel #1 into the ground.
> 
> Announce your plans and start selling bricks for the plaza area outside the stadium for $100 each, for which you can have them engraved with some text of your choice.
> 
> Above all, I'd like to see some FIGHT out of ISU for a change, rather than just bellyaching.  Let's plan for what's going to happen, and then work with our peer institutions to MAKE it happen.
> 
> Oh yes, and ISU should hire some real marketing professionals to make this all work.  Not athletics employees, not Nelligan, but professionals who know how to develop and audience and sell a product.  That would be a must.  Hey, you've gotta spend money to make money...



You don't make any $$ selling "bricks" for $100. each. Most "brick" campaigns are scaled. An institution such as ISU would be well served
to sell them for $250.- $1000. per with different sizes available. Anything less would diminish the value of the intent and land.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

shootingsycamore said:


> You don't make any $$ selling "bricks" for $100. each. Most "brick" campaigns are scaled. An institution such as ISU would be well served
> to sell them for $250.- $1000. per with different sizes available. Anything less would diminish the value of the intent and land.



Ok, fine, sell 'em for whatever you want.  The point remains the same...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

shootingsycamore said:


> You don't make any $$ selling "bricks" for $100. each. Most "brick" campaigns are scaled. An institution such as ISU would be well served
> to sell them for $250.- $1000. per with different sizes available. Anything less would diminish the value of the intent and land.



That's pretty much on point with what I've seen. I believe brickorder.com does a ton of sports stadium brick campaigns. I remember seeing their name attached to Lucas Oil Stadium. 

If someone from State reads this, I'm in for a brick or two. You have my contact info.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

After the debacle today, the drive for a new stadium should take off like a damn rocket!


----------



## niklz62

Jason Svoboda said:


> That's pretty much on point with what I've seen. I believe brickorder.com does a ton of sports stadium brick campaigns. I remember seeing their name attached to Lucas Oil Stadium.
> 
> If someone from State reads this, I'm in for a brick or two. You have my contact info.



We have that at my high school. An outfit based in charleston does it. They look pretty good


----------



## niklz62

So there looked to be about 1500 there today, we are a solid team.  I'm curious how many people would rather watch a team that is 0 for the last 12 when it's warm like the TTU game as opposed to a team that is winning in the cold 

I'd just like to know why we drop off in Nov. I could see if we shit the bed last week maybe but we won. 

Maybe homecoming needs to be later.


----------



## shootingsycamore

When the Michael Simmons Activity Center was constructed for the Trike Race there was a feeble attempt to sell "bricks". Unfortunately it was not well publicized and as to be expected not many were sold. As loyal alumni we didn't even know of it. Had we been solicited we'd have purchased a number to commemorate our family history and engagement with the University. As has come to be expected another opportunity squandered.


----------



## shootingsycamore

Jason Svoboda said:


> That's pretty much on point with what I've seen. I believe brickorder.com does a ton of sports stadium brick campaigns. I remember seeing their name attached to Lucas Oil Stadium.
> 
> If someone from State reads this, I'm in for a brick or two. You have my contact info.



Jason, if "people" from ISU don't read Sycamore Pride they don't have a handle on the pulse of the base of support for ISU. I guess all it takes is a trip to Terre Haute to sit in a dilapidated facility and a check for $25,000. to be a loyal Sycamore.


----------



## FeartheSpear

I was at that game yesterday.  The turnout was piss poor!  I just do not understand why there aren't students at these games?  I know the stadium is off campus, which is a problem.  I hope they keep football.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

FeartheSpear said:


> I was at that game yesterday.  The turnout was piss poor!  I just do not understand why there aren't students at these games?  I know the stadium is off campus, which is a problem.  I hope they keep football.



I don't think you will find one person on here that doesn't hope they keep football.


----------



## sycamore tuff

this is the $400,000-$500,000 question --- how DO we regain that $$$?  
Agree --- get 5,000 - 7,500 Indpls-metro area_based alumni to attend EVERY home football game add the CURRENT dedicated 5,000 and start marketing the hell outta the team --- especially on a season like this year; 6-3, compete well vs. the incestuous infidels of gloomington, Beat Lil' Brother and TAKE BACK OUR Victory Bell and spend MOST of the season in the Top 25 while they make a run at the playoffs -- you gotta MARKET that kinda stuff![/QUOTE]


5,000 additional fans x $11.00/ticket x 6 games/year = $330,000/year


----------



## niklz62

I think it needs to start with marketing to Terre Haute area residents.  I don't have any good ideas how to do that. I just think you want to get as many convenient fans as possible. Drive across town ect.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

niklz62 said:


> I think it needs to start with marketing to Terre Haute area residents.  I don't have any good ideas how to do that. I just think you want to get as many convenient fans as possible. Drive across town ect.



Well I... Actually do have an idea and it's not some earthshattering idea. So Servpro buys out one game a year right?? For basketball that is...

Are you telling me we don't have other businesses in this town that would do that. I know for a fact they would because business owners have told me they would like to do that and that aint some claim to faim just a fact!

Ask those same business owners to do a package deal - same thing for football, you telling me they won't do it!!?!? You bet they would.

One of the biggest supporters of Indiana State athletics over the past couple years is Dever Distrubuiting he put ISU Football on his back and if approached correctly other businesses will do the same and not so much because they have to but because they need to! A lot of business in this town benefit from the money they get paid by this school and those ownes are more thankful than many realize.

Untapped resource beyond anyone on here comprehention.

Solved.


----------



## niklz62

Ironic/Funny story:  Saturday when I went to buy my ticket, the lady at the window pointed to a lady that was giving away tickets.  I told her that I'd just go ahead and buy one.  She looked at me like I was crazy.  I kind of laughed and said, I figure since they were nice enough to let me play, I could at least buy a ticket.


----------



## Bally #50

niklz62 said:


> Ironic/Funny story:  Saturday when I went to buy my ticket, the lady at the window pointed to a lady that was giving away tickets.  I told her that I'd just go ahead and buy one.  She looked at me like I was crazy.  I kind of laughed and said, I figure since they were nice enough to let me play, I could at least buy a ticket.



I've found myself doing that more in my later years. For most of my 48 years, I have been given comp tickets and in the past few years, I've chosen to buy them so that it's counted. I imagine the Dept of Athletics finds a way to count them either way but it makes you feel better to be "counted." The $27 freebies I got for the Ball State game were GLADLY accepted. No point in feeding their coffers more than necessary.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Let me just ask a question, and please just answer the question without telling me that my scenario isn't possible.  Also, please just assume that our upward trajectory in football continues.  I'm just curious about this particular facet of our stadium discussion.

Would you pay a considerably higher ticket price if our stadium was indoors, had fantastic concessions, ample close parking, and connected to an athletics Hall of Fame?  In other words, would you pay more for climate control and a much, much better fan experience?

What say you?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

If like UNI they built a dome that could also serve as an indoor track then yes, I would fully support an indoor facility.


----------



## niklz62

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> If like UNI they built a dome that could also serve as an indoor track then yes, I would fully support an indoor facility.



Ok, in theory, I can't fathom a dome getting built that is not available for whatever sports could be played in one. 

I definitely would pay more let me ask another question....
Would the local public attend?  Fans like us would show up for big games in most situations but if the weather is what is driving fans away late in the season, would that solve the problem?  Do those fans understand how important the games are late in the season?


----------



## IndyTreeFan

niklz62 said:


> Ok, in theory, I can't fathom a dome getting built that is not available for whatever sports could be played in one.
> 
> I definitely would pay more let me ask another question....
> Would the local public attend?  Fans like us would show up for big games in most situations but if the weather is what is driving fans away late in the season, would that solve the problem?  Do those fans understand how important the games are late in the season?



I'm working on the premise that the weather would no longer be a reason for fans to stay away.  Right now, weather trumps all other reasons to go or not in the minds of local fans.


----------



## STATE Fan 95

Does the price of a ticket really matter?  We can't even give tickets away for people to attend.  Most of us will go regardless of the price granted it is within reason.   We have got to be the cheapest ticket in the Valley.  When we get a new stadium ticket prices will jump.  The bigger question is how to put butts in seats.  A dome would be awesome but we all would have to donate 25,000 plus someone would have to hit the lottery for that to happen.


----------



## bent20

IndyTreeFan said:


> Let me just ask a question, and please just answer the question without telling me that my scenario isn't possible.  Also, please just assume that our upward trajectory in football continues.  I'm just curious about this particular facet of our stadium discussion.
> 
> Would you pay a considerably higher ticket price if our stadium was indoors, had fantastic concessions, ample close parking, and connected to an athletics Hall of Fame?  In other words, would you pay more for climate control and a much, much better fan experience?
> 
> What say you?



I'd pay more if it was a new stadium without all of those things.


----------



## the johnner

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the discussion here, but for whatever it's worth: I might have mentioned that I have been purchasing 2 seats in primetime locations at our away games this year. Typically the seats have been located about 25 rows up between the 40 yard lines. (I did this because, seeing it was my son's final year, I wanted to get a look at the team playing from a better location than 10 rows up in the end zone, where typically the players parents' seats are located) . The low was $17 a seat and the high was $300 a seat (Guess where that was? By the way, did not buy those puppies for obvious reasons.) . My suggestion is that if the quality of the product on the field is comparable to this year the cost should be $25 for any seat in section F; $20 for any seat between the 30s and the 40s; $15 for any seat between the 10 yard line, and the 30s; and then $10 a seat everywhere else.


----------



## Mitchell

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> If like UNI they built a dome that could also serve as an indoor track then yes, I would fully support an indoor facility.



In general, I would support a new facility as described by IndyTreeFan, but I'd be in favor of a domed stadium *only *if it doubled as an indoor track facility.  It's just my personal opinion, but I enjoy watching football played outdoors.  Enduring the weather is part of the experience.  If I have wear a parka to fend off the rain or bundle up for the cold, so be it.  There's a certain kind of energy and fun to be derived from "braving" the elements.

As an example, one of many reasons I usually avoid going to Colts games at Lucas Oil Stadium is because the roof is too often closed on crisp, sunny days (although they have been better about leaving the roof open this year).  If I want to watch football in a climate controlled environment, then it makes more sense to stay at home.


----------



## niklz62

If they figured out a way to build any stadium, I'd probably support it.  I dont care if they have to have the National Lawn Dart Championships on it.


----------



## xfactor9600

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> If like UNI they built a dome that could also serve as an indoor track then yes, I would fully support an indoor facility.



I admire your tenacity on this topic SSOM. You're a credit to the program.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

The cost of tickets are too low as it is. If we want to get everything on the table, in all reality, ticket prices need to be increased for MEMORIAL, let alone a significant jump for a new facility. Below are the season ticket prices along with the discounted prices for those that pay early. The discount nonsense needs to be scrapped.

Adult $60 ($54) comes to $10 ($9) per game 
Faculty/Staff/Seniors $55 ($49.50) comes out to $9.17 ($8.25) per game
Youth (2-18) $25 ($22.50) comes out to $4.17 ($3.75) per game
Family (2 adult/2 children) $160 ($144) comes out to $26.67 ($24.00) per game.

Single game tickets are $11 for adults and $5 for youths, $14/$8 on Homecoming respectively. You can buy 25+ group tickets for $5 each or $8 on Homecoming. It is insanely inexpensive to attend Indiana State football games. We like to talk about how little promotions are being done and this is a reason why. If the average ticket price rose even a couple bucks per game, they'd have enough money for billboards, television/print/radio ads, etc.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Mitchell said:


> In general, I would support a new facility as described by IndyTreeFan, but I'd be in favor of a domed stadium *only *if it doubled as an indoor track facility.  It's just my personal opinion, but I enjoy watching football played outdoors.  Enduring the weather is part of the experience.  If I have wear a parka to fend off the rain or bundle up for the cold, so be it.  There's a certain kind of energy and fun to be derived from "braving" the elements.
> 
> As an example, one of many reasons I usually avoid going to Colts games at Lucas Oil Stadium is because the roof is too often closed on crisp, sunny days (although they have been better about leaving the roof open this year).  If I want to watch football in a climate controlled environment, then it makes more sense to stay at home.



This ^ 

Fully support and am of the same opinion. 

The fact remains, we need an indoor track and a new football stadium. My focus or opinion is more based on fiscal responsibility more so than some bias track and cross country agenda. 

If you are Indiana State and can kill two birds with one stone you might as well do that by any means necessary. That is why I have been strongly in support of a dual outdoor facilty. 

I had not thought about the indoor football stadium concept until ITF or whoever brought that up. I see no reason why that couldn't double as an indoor track and thus should be considered as a viable option - yes much more viable than a stand alone football stadium. Because of our financial position and our lack of alumni/student/faculty/fan support at no point will I support a standalone football facility - I think that is insane to even talk about honestly.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

xfactor9600 said:


> I admire your tenacity on this topic SSOM. You're a credit to the program.



Why thank you...

I think everyone in here would agree that football is best played outside - not going to debate that with anyone! 

But, if in the process you could check two sports facilities off at the same time why wouldn't you do it?!?! This is Indiana State, once people realize that they can really start to think about the future more realistically. I don't say that to limit what is possible, but setting unrealistic expectations is a failure to accept reality. I refuse to fall into that camp.


----------



## niklz62

we went from dropping the program to building a multi sport dome in 5 days.

love it.

Cant wait till next week, its gonna have a retractable roof so we will have the best stadium in the Big Ten


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

niklz62 said:


> we went from dropping the program to building a multi sport dome in 5 days.
> 
> love it.
> 
> Cant wait till next week, its gonna have a retractable roof so we will have the best stadium in the Big Ten



Dropping a program? Who said we should drop the program?

Multiple teams in our football conference have indoor football football stadiums - not sure why that is so unrealistic?? Retractable roof, yeah that aint going to happen but other than that - we on the same page.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Why thank you...
> 
> I think everyone in here would agree that football is best played outside - not going to debate that with anyone!
> 
> But, if in the process you could check two sports facilities off at the same time why wouldn't you do it?!?! This is Indiana State, once people realize that they can really start to think about the future more realistically. I don't say that to limit what is possible, but setting unrealistic expectations is a failure to accept reality. I refuse to fall into that camp.



I wonder if there would be a way to have the indoor track in there, but use movable stands (much like the lower seats in Bankers Life Fieldhouse) for the lowest seats, making it so that the football action could still be close to the stands, which is the biggest knock on a dual outdoor stadium.

I find it fun to see the creativity of people on here, and their dedication to ISU.  That's why this stuff is fun to spitball.

And I'm with you, SSOM, almost half of our conference plays football inside, so it's not totally out of the realm of possibility for us to do that, too.  

And, because I'm a classic fence-sitter (just kidding...), I agree with Mitchell that football should be played outdoors.  But, I am also a pragmatist, and the only way ISU will ever solve their cold weather attendance woes is to play football inside.  Same reason the Colts play inside...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> I wonder if there would be a way to have the indoor track in there, but use movable stands (much like the lower seats in Bankers Life Fieldhouse) for the lowest seats, making it so that the football action could still be close to the stands, which is the biggest knock on a dual outdoor stadium



It's not necessary with an indoors facility and that is why it makes more sense if you have a dual use facility to have it indoors. With indoors facilities, you simply roll up the field when it is time for a track event so no temporary seating is necessary. I mean, you could make a bigger facility but if we went this route I'd want exactly what UNI has because you are close to the action for both football and track events. 

Here is with the field pulled up:






With the field down. I believe the field comes in large rolls that are interconnected:






The only thing I'm uncertain of is if it would be capable of holding Valley competitions but that would have to be the trade off so you wouldn't need to build a bigger facility and have removable bleachers. Smaller footprint also means less to build by a little I'd think.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> It's not necessary with an indoors facility and that is why it makes more sense if you have a dual use facility to have it indoors. With indoors facilities, you simply roll up the field when it is time for a track event so no temporary seating is necessary. I mean, you could make a bigger facility but if we went this route I'd want exactly what UNI has because you are close to the action for both football and track events.
> 
> Here is with the field pulled up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the field down. I believe the field comes in large rolls that are interconnected:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing I'm uncertain of is if it would be capable of holding Valley competitions but that would have to be the trade off so you wouldn't need to build a bigger facility and have removable bleachers. Smaller footprint also means less to build by a little I'd think.



Well, thanks, you answered my question.  Seems like the best of both worlds, and being that the UNI-Dome is fairly old, we could probably have a nicer facility than they have.  Assuming someone would actually try to raise money for it...


----------



## SycamoreFan317

How about a monolithic dome?

http://www.monolithic.org/sports


----------



## niklz62

Add some luxury boxes in there while we are at it.

I wonder if there is a way to make some seats collapsible to fit a softball field.  That would help that team I would guess.

When I was driving by the courthouse Saturday, I was thinking how awesome the area on that side of the river would look from the west if we got a stadium build there.  If they didnt make a multi use facility, it would be cool if somehow they could build the stadium on the east side of 1st street and somehow build OVER 1st street and make the press box work for both facilities and have bleachers facing both ways.  Not sure if that's possible or not.


----------



## WOZ

*WOZ*



niklz62 said:


> we went from dropping the program to building a multi sport dome in 5 days.
> 
> love it.
> 
> Cant wait till next week, its gonna have a retractable roof so we will have the best stadium in the Big Ten



Maybe host a Super Bowl too!


----------



## SycamoreFan317

I think the dome idea is very possible..........probably cheaper than traditional construction.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreFan317 said:


> How about a monolithic dome?
> 
> http://www.monolithic.org/sports



Looks interesting.  A possibility, I would think, when the time comes...


----------



## niklz62

Anyone with any skill have the ability to show how comparable stadiums would fit where they might put a new stadium?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

For what its worth, UNI probably has the nicest indoor track in the MVC and they have hosted many conference meets. I've ran on Southern IL and IL State indoor tracks and UNI far and away the best. 

I think they have plenty of land to put a stadium on the east side of the Wabash River. I think they have several prospective property acquisitions in place when they are ready to move forward with something.


----------



## niklz62

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> For what its worth, UNI probably has the nicest indoor track in the MVC and they have hosted many conference meets. I've ran on Southern IL and IL State indoor tracks and UNI far and away the best.
> 
> I think they have plenty of land to put a stadium on the east side of the Wabash River. I think they have several prospective property acquisitions in place when they are ready to move forward with something.



What makes a track good. Surface or shape or something i don't even know about


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

niklz62 said:


> What makes a track good. Surface or shape or something i don't even know about



Actually a really good question.


A lot of indoor track facilities actually have the stands hanging over the strait aways or corners of the track - so basically you are running half of the race under the bleachers, just the way they design some of them. 

Also given the the size of the UNI dome they have plenty of space for pole vault, hammer throw, shot put and long jump/triple jump. 

Surfacs is also important but most of the indoor surfaces are similar - the only real difference is many big time college indoor tracks are 300 meters and some are even banked tracks. Those tracks are often conducive to faster times but a 300 meter track times have to be converted to a 200 meter time.

I guess my only point is, I've never watched a game in the UNI done but it is a good place to run or watch a track meet and I'd think it doubles as a nice football stadium. We should be looking into the cost comparison into doing this. I'd imagine it would be much less expensive to build a done than it would a new football stadium and a new indoor track which is also a huge need. Killing two birds with one really nice stone...

Oh and imagine the sheer size of the donor base you could tapp. Mens and Womens track and football alums - families and friends of the program. You would be talking about a significant amount of alumi and possible donor support.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Just my thoughts to throw in....
Indoor stadium is not a bad idea.   Glad it is being discussed here and I would assume it is being considered as an option.  It likely would increase attendance.   Don't assume a retractable roof isn't possible.  It may be economically feasible if TH puts skin in the game and thinks of ways they can create revenue.  I am sure TH has their finger on the pulse of ISU plans and they want a stadium downtown of some sort - it would seem obvious TH wants the traffic.  An indoor stadium gives the city more options for use and would likely be all over the idea.  TH has ability to assist with financing it and should - the city will benefit.
Just my thoughts....


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Actually a really good question.
> 
> 
> A lot of indoor track facilities actually have the stands hanging over the strait aways or corners of the track - so basically you are running half of the race under the bleachers, just the way they design some of them.
> 
> Also given the the size of the UNI dome they have plenty of space for pole vault, hammer throw, shot put and long jump/triple jump.
> 
> Surfacs is also important but most of the indoor surfaces are similar - the only real difference is many big time college indoor tracks are 300 meters and some are even banked tracks. Those tracks are often conducive to faster times but a 300 meter track times have to be converted to a 200 meter time.
> 
> I guess my only point is, I've never watched a game in the UNI done but it is a good place to run or watch a track meet and I'd think it doubles as a nice football stadium. We should be looking into the cost comparison into doing this. I'd imagine it would be much less expensive to build a done than it would a new football stadium and a new indoor track which is also a huge need. Killing two birds with one really nice stone...



We can agree!  I think an indoor set up gives you more flexibility with seating arrangements.  Plus, think of all the additional things you can do with an indoor stadium!


----------



## niklz62

I wonder this.  When wikipedia says something built in 19xx is $xxmillion and has today's dollars, is that how much you could build one now?  I'm guessing they would cost more

A concern of mine, if we were able to just write a check for exactly what UNI has right now is the possibility that we could keep ourselves from having enough seating available for whatever level of football we want to play if the landscape changes. I would theorize that the level below the BCS conferences wouldn't require 18000 anymore since many of the smaller schools probably don't do that anyway. Just food for thought


----------



## SycamoreFan317

niklz62 said:


> I wonder this.  When wikipedia says something built in 19xx is $xxmillion and has today's dollars, is that how much you could build one now?  I'm guessing they would cost more
> 
> A concern of mine, if we were able to just write a check for exactly what UNI has right now is the possibility that we could keep ourselves from having enough seating available for whatever level of football we want to play if the landscape changes. I would theorize that the level below the BCS conferences wouldn't require 18000 anymore since many of the smaller schools probably don't do that anyway. Just food for thought



First of all I am no construction expert, I believe SSOM has those contacts. The more I read about monolithic domes the more I like the idea and to find out that FEMA may well pay up to 75% of the cost is a interesting twist. Here is a new link for funding of such a project.
http://www.monolithic.org/fema/can-a-school-get-a-fema-grant-to-build-a-monolithic-dome


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreFan317 said:


> First of all I am no construction expert, I believe SSOM has those contacts. The more I read about monolithic domes the more I like the idea and to find out that FEMA may well pay up to 75% of the cost is a interesting twist. Here is a new link for funding of such a project.
> http://www.monolithic.org/fema/can-a-school-get-a-fema-grant-to-build-a-monolithic-dome



Quick, someone send that to ISU!  Seriously.  It could be the "FEMA Dome!"  I'm not joking!!!

And wouldn't that count as one, giant community service project???


----------



## southernindianaballer

IndyTreeFan said:


> Quick, someone send that to ISU!  Seriously.  It could be the "FEMA Dome!"  I'm not joking!!!
> 
> And wouldn't that count as one, giant community service project???



We can only hope they are looking at "all" options and inviting TH, alumni, students, and other donors with impact into the discussions...  They need a quick and concise decision so plans can begin...  This BCS/FCS stuff is important and may impact things a bit but that is NO reason to delay putting together a plan that can begin as soon as things pan out - which will be in short order.  I assume TH government/community leaders would have a heart attack if ISU decided not to do something downtown near the Wabash River - speaking of an "impact" to downtown TH - that would be major for the city and ISU!  It's all been said before here - and leaders with half a brain must already know this.
Go trees!


----------



## 4Q_iu

UAB Football under threat from Univ of Alabama Trustees...


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...f-trustees-finally-ready-to-kill-uab-football


----------



## sdjessie

Jason Svoboda said:


> Well, they don't break them down on the annual report, but if you just leave the search box blank and hit enter you'll see all of the donors for the year. After you get the entire list up, hit Alt-F and then type in some popular names from the last 20 years. I think you'll see just how low that number is and have a good indication.
> 
> http://www.indstate.edu/foundation/donors/



Glad you posted that ....guess they do not update often ... I contribute at a level for the President's Society but am not listed as a member ... yep ...makes me feel real good!!!!    Oh Oh ...my error ... giving depends on a certain period and this one ended in 2013 ... so I did not make the cutoff for this one ... my error I guess ...


----------



## 4Q_iu

Would we (ISU) have more recognition for our football team if we did a better job of touting our best players/alumni and coaches?  

There are 5 National Football Foundation (NFF) chapters in Indiana; north crook (est 1974), Central (Indianapolis_), Northeast (Ft Wayne_), 
Northwest (west lafayette) and Southern (evanvsille)

In doing some basic research, some of our players/alumni and former coaches meet the basic eligibility criteria:

Jerry Huntsman (1966-1972) 43-24-1 (.632) 2x District Coach of the Year (1966 and 1968), ICC Coach of the Year (1966); plus Huntsman had a GREAT record at Earlham (29-3-0  .906).

Red Faught, class of 1948, had some great teams at Franklin and was there forever... had some NAIA playoff teams -- not sure if his overall winning pct would be high enough.

We have 16 All-Americans (College Div aka Div II; Div I and Div I-FCS).

The NFF chapter also support the local HS and youth football; the CRITICAL part of an NFF chapter... 

_As a bonus, each dues-paying member receives a ballot in the selection process for the College Football Hall of Fame, a feature which can helped elect former  All-Americans...

“One of the most important goals of the chapter is to help provide a university with the support its former players and coaches deserve in the College Hall of Fame.”  

The tax-deductible membership dues are $40 per year or $99 for three years, payable to the National Football Foundation. The NFF has more than 12,000 members and awards nearly $1 million in scholarships each year._

Thoughts from the football fans??   I nominate Tom James to lead the project!


----------



## 4Q_iu

*Did State Honor the...*

1964 Indiana Collegiate Conference (ICC) Champion Football at ANYTIME this season?

If they did, I missed the press release...

Anything at Homecoming?  Or on 8 Nov vs. the Jacks?

Did they honor the 1984 playoff team?

You would THINK SOMEONE at State would figure this stuff out!   
If you want a football -- for god's sake Honor the Glory of the past and you can use it to BUILD towards the future!

Even the knuckleheads at ISU_Muncee remembered to honor their '64 team...
http://www.ballstatedaily.com/article/2014/09/540f8e3be1648

Anyone ELSE notice they only mention sharing the title w/ Buttler???

The ICC title was a 5-way split; Indiana St., Valparaiso (IN) Ball St. (IN) Butler (IN), Evansville (IN) all finished 4-2
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/conference_champs/champions.php?conid=74

Any KNOW if THEY DID??  Say at.... HOMECOMING?!?!?!?!?!?!?


----------



## shootingsycamore

Very good point. Although not a football topic, ISU has more than 50% of the public school Superintendents in the State of Indiana. Anyone see publicity from ISU touting that statistic? It doesn't appear the University sees much value in leveraging alumni in positions of influence much less former athletes and coaches.


----------



## 4Q_iu

shootingsycamore said:


> Very good point. Although not a football topic, ISU has more than 50% of the public school Superintendents in the State of Indiana. Anyone see publicity from ISU touting that statistic? It doesn't appear the University sees much value in leveraging alumni in positions of influence much less former athletes and coaches.



I've heard it touted a bit but I haven't found it in a lot of ISU brochures/pamphlets/etc...


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Alright ISU, time to get off your asses and build that new stadium!  A dome would be nice...


----------



## Bally #50

4Q_iu said:


> 1964 Indiana Collegiate Conference (ICC) Champion Football at ANYTIME this season?
> 
> If they did, I missed the press release...
> 
> Anything at Homecoming?  Or on 8 Nov vs. the Jacks?
> 
> Did they honor the 1984 playoff team?
> 
> You would THINK SOMEONE at State would figure this stuff out!
> If you want a football -- for god's sake Honor the Glory of the past and you can use it to BUILD towards the future!
> 
> Even the knuckleheads at ISU_Muncee remembered to honor their '64 team...
> http://www.ballstatedaily.com/article/2014/09/540f8e3be1648
> 
> Anyone ELSE notice they only mention sharing the title w/ Buttler???
> 
> The ICC title was a 5-way split; Indiana St., Valparaiso (IN) Ball St. (IN) Butler (IN), Evansville (IN) all finished 4-2
> http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/conference_champs/champions.php?conid=74
> 
> Any KNOW if THEY DID??  Say at.... HOMECOMING?!?!?!?!?!?!?



Come on, here! Winning with a FIVE-WAY TIE isn't actually one of the highlights you'd want to listen to over the PA if they had been recognized. I am certainly NOT saying that the athletic department has done anywhere near enough to recognize past teams and athletes but I can forgive them for that over-site. Geesh.


----------



## swsycamore

I think it would be a sad day if ISU gives up on football.  Football is part of the college experience.  Alums that I have talked to from Evansville are still complaining about not having a football program.  I have a 3 1/2 hour drive on two lane roads to Terre Haute but I usually get to two games a year.  It drives me crazy that students and area alumni stay away from the games.  The athletic department does nothing to encourage people to attend the games.


----------



## bent20

IndyTreeFan said:


> Alright ISU, time to get off your asses and build that new stadium!  A dome would be nice...



Would be nice if we could win a couple of playoff games, make some noise, get on ESPN (not ESPN3) and maybe get some more people around TH excited. I'm not sure most people (alums, residents) will even realize we made the playoffs if we don't win a couple. It's a nice start, a very big achievement given where we came from last year.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

bent20 said:


> Would be nice if we could win a couple of playoff games, make some noise, get on ESPN (not ESPN3) and maybe get some more people around TH excited. I'm not sure most people (alums, residents) will even realize we made the playoffs if we don't win a couple. It's a nice start, a very big achievement given where we came from last year.



You're right, a nice START.  But I think the program has proven its need to get out of the dump that is Memorial Stadium.  Strike while the iron is hit!!!


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bally #47 said:


> Come on, here! Winning with a FIVE-WAY TIE isn't actually one of the highlights you'd want to listen to over the PA if they had been recognized. I am certainly NOT saying that the athletic department has done anywhere near enough to recognize past teams and athletes but I can forgive them for that over-site. Geesh.



Bullsh*t.   A conference title is a CONFERENCE TITLE.   ISU_M 'conviently' claimed it as a co-championship w/ buttler.

You RECOGNIZE the past and use it to BUILD for the future!

The players from that team likely DON'T consider it a 'fluke' title --- and they deserved to be recognzed as it IS the ONLY Conference Title in 105 seasons of ISU football --- the ONLY ONE.

And the 1984 playoff team should ALSO have been remembered / honored.


----------



## shootingsycamore

You make an excellent point about recognition & tradition. Over the past several years many traditions and much history have been lost @ ISU. Athletic accomplishment is the quickest and best way to raise public awareness. Every few years former members of past wrestling teams hold a reunion on campus. Does the gathering receive any publicity? How many current students and recent alumni know of the great Wrestling and Gymnastic teams of the 1970's? Although long gone,they are part of the fabric of institutional history. Within ISU it appears people in responsible positions think only for the moment and not the past and its corollary to the future.


----------



## 4Q_iu

shootingsycamore said:


> You make an excellent point about recognition & tradition. Over the past several years many traditions and much history have been lost @ ISU. Athletic accomplishment is the quickest and best way to raise public awareness. Every few years former members of past wrestling teams hold a reunion on campus. Does the gathering receive any publicity? *How many current students and recent alumni know of the great Wrestling and Gymnastic teams of the 1970's? Although long gone,they are part of the fabric of institutional history. Within ISU it appears people in responsible positions think only for the moment and not the past and its corollary to the future*.



I agree.   There are too many alumni who associate Athletic 'success' at ISU w/ the 1976-1979 teams... and that's great.  BUT there IS more to ISU Athletics than that sport in that timeframe.

There's a part of me that wonders if the 1967-68 team HAD won the NCAA College Division would THAT get much press/attention?

Granted not having an in-state / in-conference rival, ala the ICC years (Evansville, ISU_Muncee, buttler, Valparaiso, etc) has hurt... that having football and MBB be in two different conferences in two different classifications has hurt.

BUT --- get better at touting the past and using it to build on the future.

When I talk about ISU Baseball, I usually start with Clint Barmes, an everyday/position player, then Throwin' Joe from Kokomo (Thatcher); THEN Stetter, Graman, Zane Smith, the others from Z.Smith's era.... that Donnie Baseball Mattingly chose the Yankees over us...  that Tommy John IS an alumnus, but he was "too busy" playing MLB to play college baseball... 

Same w/ MBB...  most folks have ZERO idea that John Wooden is FROM Indiana and that he coached HERE before UCLA.  I meet native Hoosiers who've no IDEA he coached at State -- NONE.

Gotta get better at it.


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## shootingsycamore

Having attended all the "Bird Era" home games, it was very exhilarating and inspiring. Ponder the moment in time from 1976-79, a new facility with some of the best sight lines in college basketball, one of the storied basketball players in the history of the game, a great fan base, the "Cinderella" story of collegiate athletics and what was done to capitalize on the opportunity, nothing, another lost opportunity. Now you have the same building 35 years later in need of close to $40mm in repairs and improvements and at best a disinterested alumni and student base. Add to that the need for a new football facility. Even with the proposed tax district to assist with renovation of Hulman Center, it's a very heavy lift. Those attending the ISU-EKU game will see a stadium that is also an educational facility and was built with gov't $$ many years ago, pretty creative.


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## SycamoreFan317

shootingsycamore said:


> Having attended all the "Bird Era" home games, it was very exhilarating and inspiring. Ponder the moment in time from 1976-79, a new facility with some of the best sight lines in college basketball, one of the storied basketball players in the history of the game, a great fan base, the "Cinderella" story of collegiate athletics and what was done to capitalize on the opportunity, nothing, another lost opportunity. Now you have the same building 35 years later in need of close to $40mm in repairs and improvements and at best a disinterested alumni and student base. Add to that the need for a new football facility. Even with the proposed tax district to assist with renovation of Hulman Center, it's a very heavy lift.* Those attending the ISU-EKU game will see a stadium that is also an educational facility and was built with gov't $$ many years ago, pretty creative.[/QUOTE*]
> 
> I think we could do the same thing today by partnering with TH and building a monolithic dome that could also be used as a storm shelter for the community and a convention center for the city to host meetings, FEMA would pay for the vast majority of the construction costs. Why wouldn't the city and ISU want to look in to this more?


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## southernindianaballer

4Q_iu said:


> I agree.   There are too many alumni who associate Athletic 'success' at ISU w/ the 1976-1979 teams... and that's great.  BUT there IS more to ISU Athletics than that sport in that timeframe.
> 
> There's a part of me that wonders if the 1967-68 team HAD won the NCAA College Division would THAT get much press/attention?
> 
> Granted not having an in-state / in-conference rival, ala the ICC years (Evansville, ISU_Muncee, buttler, Valparaiso, etc) has hurt... that having football and MBB be in two different conferences in two different classifications has hurt.
> 
> BUT --- get better at touting the past and using it to build on the future.
> 
> When I talk about ISU Baseball, I usually start with Clint Barmes, an everyday/position player, then Throwin' Joe from Kokomo (Thatcher); THEN Stetter, Graman, Zane Smith, the others from Z.Smith's era.... that Donnie Baseball Mattingly chose the Yankees over us...  that Tommy John IS an alumnus, but he was "too busy" playing MLB to play college baseball...
> 
> Same w/ MBB...  most folks have ZERO idea that John Wooden is FROM Indiana and that he coached HERE before UCLA.  I meet native Hoosiers who've no IDEA he coached at State -- NONE.
> 
> Gotta get better at it.



Well John Wooden received his graduate degree from ISU also....  pretty kewl...  While he was coaching he attended graduate school at ISU.


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## southernindianaballer

4Q_iu said:


> I agree.   There are too many alumni who associate Athletic 'success' at ISU w/ the 1976-1979 teams... and that's great.  BUT there IS more to ISU Athletics than that sport in that timeframe.
> 
> There's a part of me that wonders if the 1967-68 team HAD won the NCAA College Division would THAT get much press/attention?
> 
> Granted not having an in-state / in-conference rival, ala the ICC years (Evansville, ISU_Muncee, buttler, Valparaiso, etc) has hurt... that having football and MBB be in two different conferences in two different classifications has hurt.
> 
> BUT --- get better at touting the past and using it to build on the future.
> 
> When I talk about ISU Baseball, I usually start with Clint Barmes, an everyday/position player, then Throwin' Joe from Kokomo (Thatcher); THEN Stetter, Graman, Zane Smith, the others from Z.Smith's era.... that Donnie Baseball Mattingly chose the Yankees over us...  that Tommy John IS an alumnus, but he was "too busy" playing MLB to play college baseball...
> 
> Same w/ MBB...  most folks have ZERO idea that John Wooden is FROM Indiana and that he coached HERE before UCLA.  I meet native Hoosiers who've no IDEA he coached at State -- NONE.
> 
> Gotta get better at it.



There are some alumni of ISU that have made "worldwide" impacts....  yet we hear little about the history of these people.  There should be on campus recognition (walkways, buildings, conference areas) with these names attached.
Wooden is just an example - I mean the court has his name on it but that's it.  The school of music has some of the most successful alumni.  Do a bit of research and you will be surprised what impact isu grads have had on the arts - globally.  Government, business, Education and even medical (premed/biology grads), athletes.   It is quite impressive.


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## bent20

Doyel needs to follow up with some coverage now that we've made the playoffs and won a game. If not, then he's just another Star columnist who swoops by to write a periodic column about the tough times at ISU and doesn't follow through when we succeed.

Here is how he spent yesterday:

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...-bucket-game-sends-columnist-stands/19668781/


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## nwi stater

SOS..........2 worst teams in Indiana and they act like it's the Rose Bowl... how nice...........


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## TreeTop

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Doyel, I'm gonna.

His article wasn't on the game as much as it was on the fans (the very few fans) who attended the game.  Doyel is a dude who is a brand new resident of the state of Indiana and he's immersing himself in its sports.  He's allowing himself to be educated in our sports culture and traditions for that matter.   

He also covered the Monon Bell game...but that article WAS about the game and history of it and how it's a fantastic rivalry, regardless of it being D3.  Give us another win in the playoffs (better yet, two) and I would bet that Doyel returns for a follow up.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Quabachi said:


> At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Doyel, I'm gonna.
> 
> His article wasn't on the game as much as it was on the fans (the very few fans) who attended the game.  Doyel is a dude who is a brand new resident of the state of Indiana and he's immersing himself in its sports.  He's allowing himself to be educated in our sports culture and traditions for that matter.
> 
> He also covered the Monon Bell game...but that article WAS about the game and history of it and how it's a fantastic rivalry, regardless of it being D3.  Give us another win in the playoffs (better yet, two) and I would bet that Doyel returns for a follow up.



This is very well said, he wrote a story this weekend that he had to write. 

That said, this team - shouldn't have to do anything else to derserve a column about what they have done this season. From 1 win to the second round of the playoffs - talk about us, we earned it FINALLY!!


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## niklz62

I wonder if our bid was better than Fordham.  Nobody in Indiana to compete with that weekend


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## quickdraw

bent20 said:


> Doyel needs to follow up with some coverage now that we've made the playoffs and won a game. If not, then he's just another Star columnist who swoops by to write a periodic column about the tough times at ISU and doesn't follow through when we succeed.
> 
> Umm... I thought there was some curse associated with media coverage from Indy and ISU sports? Maybe he should wait a few weeks!:hypnotized:


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## bent20

Quabachi said:


> At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Doyel, I'm gonna.
> 
> His article wasn't on the game as much as it was on the fans (the very few fans) who attended the game.  Doyel is a dude who is a brand new resident of the state of Indiana and he's immersing himself in its sports.  He's allowing himself to be educated in our sports culture and traditions for that matter.
> 
> He also covered the Monon Bell game...but that article WAS about the game and history of it and how it's a fantastic rivalry, regardless of it being D3.  Give us another win in the playoffs (better yet, two) and I would bet that Doyel returns for a follow up.



I know he didn't cover the game like a beat writer. He wrote about the awful attendance. I realize that. So woohoo, what good is that? Is that a story everyone in the state didn't already know? No one cares, so he's writing about the fact that no one cares. Great idea. It's been done, the teams still suck, they always will (especially with the way the Big 10 is structured now. If you are a closet Purdue or Indiana football fan get ready because that's gonna suck worse than our losing streak a few years ago, as if they don't already). Nothing like a feel good column about how much that football rivalry is dead. And he gets his shot in at the end at the "uncle" who didn't want to give his name and left early. Typical columnist with a bruised ego.

I also realize he'll probably come back around if we win another game and are playing No. 1 New Hampshire with the Final Four on the line. What else will he have to write about in December except the Colts?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

bent20 said:


> I know he didn't cover the game like a beat writer. He wrote about the awful attendance. I realize that. So woohoo, what good is that? Is that a story everyone in the state didn't already know? No one cares, so he's writing about the fact that no one cares. Great idea. It's been done, the teams still suck, they always will (especially with the way the Big 10 is structured now. If you are a closet Purdue or Indiana football fan get ready because that's gonna suck worse than our losing streak a few years ago, as if they don't already). Nothing like a feel good column about how much that football rivalry is dead. And he gets his shot in at the end at the "uncle" who didn't want to give his name and left early. Typical columnist with a bruised ego.
> 
> I also realize he'll probably come back around if we win another game and are playing No. 1 New Hampshire with the Final Four on the line. What else will he have to write about in December except the Colts?



Thats actually not what the story was about at all... But okay, maybe you should go back and read it again. Wow


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## Jason Svoboda

I don't need some long story but I think the way the Star covered our playoff win and how Doyel has been quiet to comments on Twitter says quite a lot. They gave us a couple sloppily written paragraphs and gave a NAIA team the headline. We're a fucking Division 1 state university that has a significant portion of it's student population from the Indianapolis metropolitan area as well as a sizable alumni base living there, too. 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ll-playoffs-marian-stuns-grand-view/19673415/

Meanwhile, the IU/PU game got a fourth story this morning about their 3rd string QB smoking a cigar in the locker room. Fuck the Indianapolis Star.


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## niklz62

Why are there different stats.  ESPN and the TV guys said MP was 41-57 for 407.  the original press release must have been wrong and I assume thats either the IS's story or written from it.  

Maybe they should try to get Tom James or one of the guys from Terre Haute to write the article for them.  I realize that might not be able to since they work for competing papers but damn.

Maybe ISU should buy an advertisement and use that to put Ace Hunt's rundown on it.


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## new sycamore fan

It would really be nice to let this thread go into obscurity--it's not a good recruiting tool to have a banner that reads "...Facing a Football Free Future".  How about ISU's Football Future is Bright with the programs first FCS playoff win in 30+ years?


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## rapala

*This is a big deal!  This is as big as making the NCAA bb tourney.*

Go Trees





4Q_iu said:


> Bullsh*t.   A conference title is a CONFERENCE TITLE.   ISU_M 'conviently' claimed it as a co-championship w/ buttler.
> 
> You RECOGNIZE the past and use it to BUILD for the future!
> 
> The players from that team likely DON'T consider it a 'fluke' title --- and they deserved to be recognzed as it IS the ONLY Conference Title in 105 seasons of ISU football --- the ONLY ONE.
> 
> And the 1984 playoff team should ALSO have been remembered / honored.


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## SycamoreFan317

This thread got hijacked a long time ago.


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## bent20

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Thats actually not what the story was about at all... But okay, maybe you should go back and read it again. Wow



It was about the sad state of affairs with IU and PU football and he focused on those people in the sections with the fewest people to see what their stories were (which frankly wasn't that interesting). If you gained some deeper enlightenment out of the article, by all means, share.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Just want people to know and realize (not anyone in particular) that I have tweeted at both Doyel and the Indy Star and sent a personal email to Gregg asking for coverage this week. 

I know a lot of discussion was had about the timing and some to me personally about my comment about "cutting programs" which I think is a very real thing. 

But I'm not the guy who wrote to Doyel and said write a piece about this and then just sit back and do nothing! 

This team deserves better than what they have got and I will continue to do anything in my power to make sure that changes. Thing is, I aint got much pull... 

Just wanted to make sure that was clear!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

bent20 said:


> It was about the sad state of affairs with IU and PU football and he focused on those people in the sections with the fewest people to see what their stories were (which frankly wasn't that interesting). If you gained some deeper enlightenment out of the article, by all means, share.



My sincere appology, I guess I didn't realize you were talking about the IU column that he wrote and not our column that he wrote... Was confused - all is well now! Nothing to see here.


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## ISU02

It's sad to here that Indy Star doesn't give ISU the attention it deserve. Hell, try living in the Louisville Metro Area.  An atomic bomb could be dropped on Indianapolis and I would barely here about it.  What's worse is ISU has absolutely no presence here, even though it's one of its larger alumni base.  I often wonder if just a few dollars were spent down here advertising how much of an impact would it have.  But one advantage of living here most of my life has been witnessing the meteoric rise of the University of Louisville in all sports, and not just basketball. And  seeing what they've had to do to get where they are now.  One important point:  The Louisville Courier Journal has played an important role with Louisville's success, and comparing what they do covering UofL, and what the Tribune Star does, begs the question, why isn't the TibStar doing more, let alone the IndyStar.


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## ISU02

And for clarification: I once considered myself a UofL fan, I often bragged about them as a student to other ISU students, but that's all changed.  I can hardly stand them anymore.


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