# State Budget Committee OKs funding for Hulman Center project



## IndyTreeFan

*Hulman Convention Center: Is the project dead?*

See the first publicly released renderings of the proposed Hulman Center expansion/renovation.  Looks nice enough.  But what are they gonna do with Larry???

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_04176653-36f6-56ea-93c8-f0557c474bed.html

I wish we could see what they have planned for the interior and arena space.  I guess that will come when the state approves the project.  Which, of course, means it will never come.  Sigh...


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## nwi stater

Too bad they couldn't enlarge it enough to house a indoor football field like Univ. North Dakota!!

All problems would be taken care of!!


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## BrokerZ

As a non-resident and non-tax payer in city and state, I'm all for it!  Start immediately!


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## Bally #50

BrokerZ said:


> As a non-resident and non-tax payer in city and state, I'm all for it!  Start immediately!



Not only exciting, unlike many things on the drawing boards in TH in the past, it is very well thought out and well-designed. A tremendous use of utilized space. I know it is not going to happen anytime soon but good job folks.


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## shootingsycamore

It looks great and would be a nice addition to TH. My only question is why would an organization have a convention in TH when Indianapolis is an hour to the east? I suppose it might be less expensive or ISU would be able to host educational/academic conferences they can't currently accommodate.


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## Bally #50

I think you answered your own question. The cost would be a fraction of what an overnite would cost in Indy. Muncie apparently has been pretty successful in their convention center so I think it makes a ton of sense. It also might get some boost from the downtown TH hotels (i.e. Garden Inn, Candlewood) because it can only help them be utilized more.


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## IndyTreeFan

Terre Haute can find its niche in the convention industry.  It's not gonna get the FFA convention, where 18 bazillion young farmers come to town, but I think Terre Haute can realistically nab some mid-sized conventions and meetings.  And if they follow the Indianapolis model, where everything is accessible within a short distance downtown, they can certainly carve out that niche for themselves.

I'm just waiting for the legislature to say "No way, Jose."  Seems to be what they do...


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## southernindianaballer

This came out a bit earlier than I expected.  Positives:  Aggressive timeline (budget to be approved this year?), right man working it, the "right man" seems fairly confident, ISU and Wabash Valley really need this, it can be profitable, I would also think Union Hospital might be excited about it.
Negatives:  People won't believe it can happen - and for good reason based on past experiences, profitability will be questioned - but really ROI can be there, people will question ability to utilize, people will say we can't fill Hulman now so why do anything (we can fill it - look at last year's Wichita State game), seating will likely be decreased a bit but potentially replaced with higher revenue suites - maybe that's a positive.  All understandable concerns, really...
This is good.  Heck - if budget is approved this year - maybe construction could start late 2016?  Football stadium design to start following Hulman approval?  Just thinking...  I bet Dr. Bradley wants the football stadium done before he leaves.


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## southernindianaballer

http://www.mywabashvalley.com/story...r-plans-underway/11383/gqDBvBiwtkuatU-oh_iIjw

http://wthitv.com/2015/02/11/isu-hoping-to-move-forward-with-hulman-center-renovation/


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## southernindianaballer

Really - what about Larry?  Maybe they can build a better location with attractive landscaping I hope.  Obvious Trivia:  What is the name of blue bird used for the famous Twitter Logo?  Larry the Bird...  It's True!  LOL  There is probably an entire thread on here somewhere related to that fact.  LOL


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## IndyTreeFan

southernindianaballer said:


> Really - what about Larry?  Maybe they can build a better location with attractive landscaping I hope.  Obvious Trivia:  What is the name of blue bird used for the famous Twitter Logo?  Larry the Bird...  It's True!  LOL  There is probably an entire thread on here somewhere related to that fact.  LOL



Maybe Larry can move indoors, and they'll include space for an ISU athletics museum and an ISU store.  I hope they visit the Joyce Center at Notre Dame for some ideas.  ND took an even older facility and made it a first class arena experience.


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## treeman

Does anybody have any idea what they would do to the seating inside the hulman center? Would they completely regut it? Take out some sections and add suites?


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## Jason Svoboda




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## GuardShock

Jason Svoboda said:


>



Do you have bigger picture that we could zoom in on and actually read?


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## southernindianaballer

IndyTreeFan said:


> Maybe Larry can move indoors, and they'll include space for an ISU athletics museum and an ISU store.  I hope they visit the Joyce Center at Notre Dame for some ideas.  ND took an even older facility and made it a first class arena experience.



Now that's a wonderful idea!!  Museum and store!  You know...  John Wooden graduated from ISU (graduate degree/MS) and ISU was the head coaching gig that got him the job at UCLA.  I think they need something more than a court for John Wooden.  These two ISU graduates were/are considered by some to be the greatest contributors to basketball worldwide, athletic competition... and were/are simply, very, very successful individuals.  Not one, any, college or university can compare.  If ISU can't create some sort of shrine/museum with these two individuals highly included - a brain transplant is in order.  LOL  really, John Wooden, his Leadership ideas are being transferred to the business world every day!  The greatest coach of all time.  Larry Bird, the greatest player of all time and business professional!!


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## Jason Svoboda

GuardShock said:


> Do you have bigger picture that we could zoom in on and actually read?



If I did, I'd post it. That's the only one I saw.


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## southernindianaballer

southernindianaballer said:


> Now that's a wonderful idea!!  Museum and store!  You know...  John Wooden graduated from ISU (graduate degree/MS) and ISU was the head coaching gig that got him the job at UCLA.  I think they need something more than a court for John Wooden.  These two ISU graduates were/are considered by some to be the greatest contributors to basketball worldwide, athletic competition... and were/are simply, very, very successful individuals.  Not one, any, college or university can compare.  If ISU can't create some sort of shrine/museum with these two individuals highly included - a brain transplant is in order.  LOL  really, John Wooden, his Leadership ideas are being transferred to the business world every day!  The greatest coach of all time.  Larry Bird, the greatest player of all time and business professional!!



While John Wooden was coaching at ISU - he had a great team - made the tournament and refused to send his team because the committee told him he had to leave his African American player in Terre Haute!  He made a stand that sent a quake through the coaching ranks at the time!  The true meaning of TEAM and fair treatment of all!!!


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## treeman

GuardShock said:


> Do you have bigger picture that we could zoom in on and actually read?



that's what i was thinking. i saw that picture in the newspaper article and i have absolutely know idea what it is trying to depict. it sure as hell doesn't look like a basketball arena


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## southernindianaballer

southernindianaballer said:


> While John Wooden was coaching at ISU - he had a great team - made the tournament and refused to send his team because the committee told him he had to leave his African American player in Terre Haute!  He made a stand that sent a quake through the coaching ranks at the time!  The true meaning of TEAM and fair treatment of all!!!



Not the place for this but:
After Pearl Harbor Wooden joined the Navy, where he served four years and was promoted to Lieutenant. When his military duty was finished, he was hired to teach and coach at Indiana State Teachers' College (now known as Indiana State University). In his first season as coach, his Sycamores won the conference title and a berth in the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics (NAIA) tournament. Coach Wooden personally rejected the invitation, because African-American players were not permitted to compete. "Clarence Walker was on my team," Wooden said years later, "and, well, he wasn't one of the ones that got to play very much. But they wouldn't let him come, so I wouldn't go to the tournament."

The next season, Indiana State repeated as conference champions, and the tournament changed its rules and allowed black players. Wooden's benchwarmer, Walker, became the first African-American to play in the NAIA tournament. In two seasons at Indiana State, Wooden's teams went 47-14, and the next year he was offered the job at UCLA.
http://www.nndb.com/people/312/000028228/


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## IndyTreeFan

The plan moves forward.  It stands at $75.8M right now.  Wonder how much they'll pare that down before it's done?

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_dffbdc5a-bdf3-11e4-b8ae-db62bbf8c721.html


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## BrokerZ

IndyTreeFan said:


> The plan moves forward.  It stands at $75.8M right now.  Wonder how much they'll pare that down before it's done?
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_dffbdc5a-bdf3-11e4-b8ae-db62bbf8c721.html



Prettyman seemed fairly bullish on the Hulman Center renovations moving forward in the "Ask the AD" responses.  I wonder if he knows something we don't or if he's just being optimistic?


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## IndyTreeFan

BrokerZ said:


> Prettyman seemed fairly bullish on the Hulman Center renovations moving forward in the "Ask the AD" responses.  I wonder if he knows something we don't or if he's just being optimistic?



I would be shocked if he didn't know something we don't about that project, but right now, everything is rosy because the project is *in *the House budget.  I just wonder how long it'll be before the local communities balk at the $25M Terre Haute and Vigo County have to pony up.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get a convention center added to the front, and nothing done on the inside.


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## SycamoreFan317

$25M is nothing a drop in the bucket. I would imagine the local politicians would be all over this.


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## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> Not the place for this but:
> After Pearl Harbor Wooden joined the Navy, where he served four years and was promoted to Lieutenant. When his military duty was finished, he was hired to teach and coach at Indiana State Teachers' College (now known as Indiana State University). In his first season as coach, his Sycamores won the conference title and a berth in the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics (NAIA) tournament. Coach Wooden personally rejected the invitation, because African-American players were not permitted to compete. "Clarence Walker was on my team," Wooden said years later, "and, well, he wasn't one of the ones that got to play very much. But they wouldn't let him come, so I wouldn't go to the tournament."
> 
> The next season, Indiana State repeated as conference champions, and the tournament changed its rules and allowed black players. Wooden's benchwarmer, Walker, became the first African-American to play in the NAIA tournament. In two seasons at Indiana State, Wooden's teams went 47-14, and the next year he was offered the job at UCLA.
> http://www.nndb.com/people/312/000028228/



Following this thread...

The Wooden Family donated several boxes / crates of ISU Memorabilia that Coach Wooden had in his possession; I would think our Archives folks would be finished ID'ing and cataloguing them.  AND they should be included in a Coach Wooden display in the re-furbished Hulman Center.  For instance, that school in west laf.  has his Purdue letterman's sweater in the 'new' Mackey Arena.

Other Wooden tidbits:

Following the 1947 season; Coach Wooden applied & interviewed for the open MBB job at Vanderbilt, it went to another Indiana-native -- Bob Polk_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Polk.

During his tenure at ISU, a Midwestern school asked him to stay at ISU for the 1948-49 season and then join their staff as an ass't and THEN move into the HC job... he went to UCLA.   After he'd been at UCLA for 1-3 years, he shook hands on replacing Mel Taube... UCLA held him to his contract AND his wife begged him to stay at UCLA for the weather (and their friends).  He agreed.

AND he ONLY accepted the UCLA job because Minnesota COULDN"T offer him their job (to which he applied/interviewed) because a snow storm knocked out their phones -- by the time they phones were working, he had accepted the UCLA job.

AND Coach Wooden said in a number of interviews, that had WWII NOT occurred, he would have STAYED at South Bend Central.   He and the family loved their life in South Bend BUT like millions of other Americans, WWII dramatically changed their lives.  He went to the Navy and the rest is history.

KEEP in mind, that AFTER WWII was over, he returned to South Bend and the School Board was going fire his successor and give the job back to Wooden. He refused to accept it under those circumstances; he contacted his old HS coach, Glenn M. Curtis (our MBB coach from 1938-46), Curtis was leaving for the Detroit Falcons job, Curtis vouched for him to Dr. Tirey and the rest is history


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## treeman

So now the state is saying that terre haute has to come up with $25M for it move forward?


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## Southgrad07

This needs to happen.. If the state is willing to pony up 50+million then it's on Isu and Terre haute to do the rest. The building would get a much needed facelift that would fit in with all the construction going on downtown.


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## southernindianaballer

4Q_iu said:


> Following this thread...
> 
> The Wooden Family donated several boxes / crates of ISU Memorabilia that Coach Wooden had in his possession; I would think our Archives folks would be finished ID'ing and cataloguing them.  AND they should be included in a Coach Wooden display in the re-furbished Hulman Center.  For instance, that school in west laf.  has his Purdue letterman's sweater in the 'new' Mackey Arena.
> 
> Other Wooden tidbits:
> 
> Following the 1947 season; Coach Wooden applied & interviewed for the open MBB job at Vanderbilt, it went to another Indiana-native -- Bob Polk_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Polk.
> 
> During his tenure at ISU, a Midwestern school asked him to stay at ISU for the 1948-49 season and then join their staff as an ass't and THEN move into the HC job... he went to UCLA.   After he'd been at UCLA for 1-3 years, he shook hands on replacing Mel Taube... UCLA held him to his contract AND his wife begged him to stay at UCLA for the weather (and their friends).  He agreed.
> 
> AND he ONLY accepted the UCLA job because Minnesota COULDN"T offer him their job (to which he applied/interviewed) because a snow storm knocked out their phones -- by the time they phones were working, he had accepted the UCLA job.
> 
> AND Coach Wooden said in a number of interviews, that had WWII NOT occurred, he would have STAYED at South Bend Central.   He and the family loved their life in South Bend BUT like millions of other Americans, WWII dramatically changed their lives.  He went to the Navy and the rest is history.
> 
> KEEP in mind, that AFTER WWII was over, he returned to South Bend and the School Board was going fire his successor and give the job back to Wooden. He refused to accept it under those circumstances; he contacted his old HS coach, Glenn M. Curtis (our MBB coach from 1938-46), Curtis was leaving for the Detroit Falcons job, Curtis vouched for him to Dr. Tirey and the rest is history



You know... Unless I am mistaken.... He developed his Pyramid of Success while in graduate school at ISU.


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## southernindianaballer

Looks to be moving forward!!!  Good news!!!  wow - this is Big Time good news!!!  The rate of growth and improvements that continue to be made at ISU is impressive - not to mention enrollment, educational improvements and national recognition...  frankly, I'm a bit stunned... I mean really.  What university in this great state is growing academically, etc. more than ISU?  The things happening downtown are wonderful... great food, spirits, and more on the way!   Downtown vendors are celebrating with a cold one tonight.  TH is seeing things the right way now.


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## southernindianaballer

I think the Ford Center in Evansville may have been mentioned on here once or twice...  Just an FYI... The naming rights for that facility was approximately 4.2 million bucks - really not that big of deal in the grand scheme for 10 years...  It is NOT the Ford Motor Company - it is several "Tri-State" Ford dealers who together came up with the 4.2 million.  I assume they thought the marketing would increase their dealership sales.
Just an fyi is all.


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## TreeTop

The Kroger Hulman Center.


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## Sycamore Proud

Quabachi said:


> The Kroger Hulman Center.



It is the Hulman Center for a reason.  That can't be changed for obvious reasons.   We have the Wooden Court inside the Hulman Center--nothing wrong with that.  

hat.  It could be the Sycamore Convention and Banquette Facility inside the Hulman Center on the campus of Indiana Sate University.    Change the "Sycamore" to ???? when the price is right.


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## IndyTreeFan

How about "Big Donor X Arena at the Hulman Convention Center."  That could be nice and still keeps the Hulman name on it.

Keep it in the family - "Tony George Arena at the Hulman Convention Center."  Come on, Tony, just write the check...


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## TreeTop

6th Avenue Dancers Hulman Convention Center and Wooden Court of Terre Haute


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## IndyTreeFan

Quabachi said:


> 6th Avenue Dancers Hulman Convention Center and Wooden Court of Terre Haute



That would certainly attract bigger crowds, and I'd guess, more students!!!  At least the guys...


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## Jason Svoboda

Sycamore Proud said:


> It is the Hulman Center for a reason.  That can't be changed for obvious reasons.   We have the Wooden Court inside the Hulman Center--nothing wrong with that.
> 
> hat.  It could be the Sycamore Convention and Banquette Facility inside the Hulman Center on the campus of Indiana Sate University.    Change the "Sycamore" to ???? when the price is right.



Are the naming rights in perpetuity? If so, another short sighted decision by administrations of years past. It is what it is at this point but if that's the case I'd suggest renaming Hulman Center to Hulman Arena and then selling naming rights to the convention/events center piece? 

So it could be something like Hulman Arena at Thompson Thrift Convention/Events Center. You've got to find a way to bring in revenue for naming rights and this time make sure it is a timed deal like most do these days.


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## BrokerZ

IndyTreeFan said:


> That would certainly attract bigger crowds, and I'd guess, more students!!!  At least the guys...



I don't know..unless that place changed from when I was at State...it would probably act as a deterrent.


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## southernindianaballer

I would like to have Hulman name remain.... of course, if it's possible in some way to gain revenue by adding naming rights to the facility in some way where it still looks professional and Hulman remains - it's all good and more $$ for ISU and/or TH.
Is it possible to add banners/signs on the suites as part of the package?  Like have the Bird Cage Suite, Hulman 500 Suite, Wooden Pyramid Suite, Wabash Cannonball Suite, etc.... but add the sponsor in front...  such as.... Old National Bank's Bird Cage Suite, Lilly's Wooden Pyramid Suite, etc.?  My mind is just wandering and having fun on a Friday.  obviously... if this becomes a convention center and TH becomes part owner - Beer will likely be available, true?


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## Southgrad07

southernindianaballer said:


> I would like to have Hulman name remain.... of course, if it's possible in some way to gain revenue by adding naming rights to the facility in some way where it still looks professional and Hulman remains - it's all good and more $$ for ISU and/or TH.
> Is it possible to add banners/signs on the suites as part of the package?  Like have the Bird Cage Suite, Hulman 500 Suite, Wooden Pyramid Suite, Wabash Cannonball Suite, etc.... but add the sponsor in front...  such as.... Old National Bank's Bird Cage Suite, Lilly's Wooden Pyramid Suite, etc.?  My mind is just wandering and having fun on a Friday.  obviously... if this becomes a convention center and TH becomes part owner - Beer will likely be available, true?



Those all sound like fine ideas to me!


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## southernindianaballer

Quote Originally Posted by southernindianaballer  View Post
I would like to have Hulman name remain.... of course, if it's possible in some way to gain revenue by adding naming rights to the facility in some way where it still looks professional and Hulman remains - it's all good and more $$ for ISU and/or TH.
Is it possible to add banners/signs on the suites as part of the package? Like have the Bird Cage Suite, Hulman 500 Suite, Wooden Pyramid Suite, Wabash Cannonball Suite, etc.... but add the sponsor in front... such as.... Old National Bank's Bird Cage Suite, Lilly's Wooden Pyramid Suite, etc.? My mind is just wandering and having fun on a Friday. obviously... if this becomes a convention center and TH becomes part owner - Beer will likely be available, true?



Southgrad07 said:


> Those all sound like fine ideas to me!



and I could go on and on...  Crossroads of America Suite, Tree House Suite, Sycamore Suite, Forest Suite, Wabash Valley Suite,  and I'm done...  another pipe dream... heck with that many suites sounds like I'm expecting a 300 million dollar facility...


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## southernindianaballer

The renovation plan has some hurdles to overcame still (potential approval in April?)... but from what I have read the renovated Hulman Center should be at least on par with the Ford Center.  If that's the case here are some details on the Ford Center's premium seating taken from the web site and based on my experience this is pretty accurate:
FORD CENTER FACTS
◦ Sixteen 20-person suites
◦ One 40-person suite
◦ Two eight-person mini suites
◦ Two 10-person mini suites
◦ 95 main concourse loge seats
the menu is pretty kewl... good food served!


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## shootingsycamore

ISU does have a "naming rights" program. It has been executed at best in a sporadic fashion. The College of Business was to be the Scott College of Business, not at Federal Hall. Historic designations changed the name. The Trading Floor in the COB is named after an individual who has an estate gift for the the naming rights and he's still alive. Among the reasons the College of Education became the Bayh College of Education is the fact that Evan Bayh was able to persuade the federal government to "give" the Post Office building to ISU. It was counted as a "gift in kind" towards the "March On" campaign. Many buildings on campus are named for former ISU and state wide notable figures. While a noble gesture, the opportunity to raise a substantial amount of $$ is being overlooked by not offering to modify the names of some buildings on campus.


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## southernindianaballer

The Thomas Flair Champion Suite and The Baumgartner Champion Suite...


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## treeman

So one aspect that I overlooked and hasnt been discussed here is "if" this happens. Then ISU would be renting the facility for all activities. For those of you in the know with this kind of stuff, what exactly would that entail. Is it cost saving because ISU doesnt hire staff and upkeep? Does ISU lose out of concession sales? Does the cost to rent offset the cost of maintanence? 

Id imagine the relationship between the hulman convention center and ISU would be more intimate than Creightons with the C-link center just because of ISUs history with the building, proximity, and the size of Terre Haute


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## IndyTreeFan

treeman said:


> So one aspect that I overlooked and hasnt been discussed here is "if" this happens. Then ISU would be renting the facility for all activities. For those of you in the know with this kind of stuff, what exactly would that entail. Is it cost saving because ISU doesnt hire staff and upkeep? Does ISU lose out of concession sales? Does the cost to rent offset the cost of maintanence?
> 
> Id imagine the relationship between the hulman convention center and ISU would be more intimate than Creightons with the C-link center just because of ISUs history with the building, proximity, and the size of Terre Haute



I would think expense-wise, it'll be a wash for ISU.  I did catch in one of the articles about it, though, that Dr. Bradley said that any lease agreement would have to give ISU basketball priority for use of the building.  We sure don't want to have a situation where the teams can't get in there whenever they need to.  I would hope that the new "CIB" and ISU would be able to work together on this...


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## southernindianaballer

IndyTreeFan said:


> I would think expense-wise, it'll be a wash for ISU.  I did catch in one of the articles about it, though, that Dr. Bradley said that any lease agreement would have to give ISU basketball priority for use of the building.  We sure don't want to have a situation where the teams can't get in there whenever they need to.  I would hope that the new "CIB" and ISU would be able to work together on this...



Good points...  I would think/hope that they work together on ownership.  I thought I read were ISU has to fund it partially, too.  I would hope that food and suite revenue would be beneficial for all parties...  For instance, if a suite contract it $50k a year for 3 years for "all" events and holds 16 people, or $20k yr for 3 yrs for basketball only events....  You would think something could be worked out....  No doubt it creates some nice paying jobs for marketing, business, sales, foods, and maintenance people.


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## southernindianaballer

House Speaker talks about Hulman Center Renovation timeline for approval.
http://www.kokomotribune.com/news/s...cle_33b11ce0-d238-11e4-bf68-7700b1f243b2.html

Speaker Bosma - Well, its my hope that both the Hulman Center Project and the regional cities program are fully funded. Anyone who predicts what will happen at the end of the session probably doesn't understand the question but we will do our best.


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## 4Q_iu

shootingsycamore said:


> ISU does have a "naming rights" program. It has been executed at best in a sporadic fashion. The College of Business was to be the Scott College of Business, not at Federal Hall. Historic designations changed the name. The Trading Floor in the COB is named after an individual who has an estate gift for the the naming rights and he's still alive. Among the reasons the College of Education became the Bayh College of Education is the fact that Evan Bayh was able to persuade the federal government to "give" the Post Office building to ISU. It was counted as a "gift in kind" towards the "March On" campaign. Many buildings on campus are named for former ISU and state wide notable figures. While a noble gesture, the opportunity to raise a substantial amount of $$ is being overlooked by not offering to modify the names of some buildings on campus.



Just seeing this entry...

So you're saying the "official" name of our college of business is the 'scott college of business AT Federal Hall?'

I've NEVER found that designation...  what's your source?


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## IndyTreeFan

Well, there goes the idea of a real state of the art facility.  ISU/Terre Haute/Vigo County will use this as an excuse to scale back plans for Hulman Center.  Just watch.  God knows the Foundation is incapable of raising any money to make this happen...

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...ml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook


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## rapala

Hey let's give them a chance to get it done.  I question the Gibson story.  Not calling anyone a liar, but if  you know the Gibson's you aren't going to talk them out of anything they really want to do.  Max and Greg want anything their name is connected to done right .  And I may be all wet.


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## bluestreak

?


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## IndyTreeFan

Check out the mayor's comments in the article below.  Hulman Center is going to be another in a long line of projects that will be "scaled back" or "done in phases," which of course means that it'll never get done.  The pitiful financial state of the City of Terre Haute is killing this project.  It's gonna end up being done in a second-rate manner.  Hopefully, Greg Goode can get a deal worked out before this whole thing falls apart.  Just disgusting...

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_news/mayor-city-getting-sludge-to-diesel-pacts-right/article_556c93f2-e420-50e8-a687-31a87c515933.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook


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## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> Check out the mayor's comments in the article below.  Hulman Center is going to be another in a long line of projects that will be "scaled back" or "done in phases," which of course means that it'll never get done.  The pitiful financial state of the City of Terre Haute is killing this project.  It's gonna end up being done in a second-rate manner.  Hopefully, Greg Goode can get a deal worked out before this whole thing falls apart.  Just disgusting...
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_news/mayor-city-getting-sludge-to-diesel-pacts-right/article_556c93f2-e420-50e8-a687-31a87c515933.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook



Honestly... Yes the cities finances suck. But this small city aint out of line with the rest of the country when compared to cities of our size. We are in the same pathetic place that most everyone in this country is in. So blame it on that all you want - noticed that some how the pathetic finances of the University some how didn't make your post?? Probably just a fair oversight. 

It is a shame, but it is pretty predictable if you sit back and think about it. You wondered why they haven't done a fundraising campaign for the track? Or maybe you didn't wonder that, I did and I came to a pretty logically explanation. I think any major fundraising efforts are going to be aimed toward getting this project completed - just my guesstimate.


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## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Honestly... Yes the cities finances suck. But this small city aint out of line with the rest of the country when compared to cities of our size. We are in the same pathetic place that most everyone in this country is in. So blame it on that all you want - noticed that some how the pathetic finances of the University some how didn't make your post?? Probably just a fair oversight.
> 
> It is a shame, but it is pretty predictable if you sit back and think about it. You wondered why they haven't done a fundraising campaign for the track? Or maybe you didn't wonder that, I did and I came to a pretty logically explanation. *I think any major fundraising efforts are going to be aimed toward getting this project completed - just my guesstimate.*



I think you're spot on with the assessment I bolded.  Everything is aimed, for now, at getting Hulman Center done.

As for the city finances, I have it on good authority from a friend involved with the General Assemble that Terre Haute's precarious financial position is the reason the senate cut $12.5M from the project.  ISU is working very, very hard to come up with creative financing for Terre Haute's part of the project, in an effort to get the $50M restored.

And ISU's finances aren't holding the University back much, at least in the eyes of the legislature.  After all, approval for the $64M Health/Nursing building is coming in this budget, which is a nod towards the progress ISU is making.  It's getting noticed here in Indy.  And that's a good thing.

Just wanted to add that I also realize that the state created most of the financial problems cities are facing right now.  Not all of the problems TH faces are of their own making.  It just sucks that it has the potential to derail what should be a really fantastic project.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> I think you're spot on with the assessment I bolded.  Everything is aimed, for now, at getting Hulman Center done.
> 
> As for the city finances, I have it on good authority from a friend involved with the General Assemble that Terre Haute's percarious financial position is the reason the senate cut $12.5M from the project.  ISU is working very, very hard to come up with creative financing for Terre Haute's part of the project, in an effort to get the $50M restored.
> 
> And ISU's finances aren't holding the University back much, at least in the eyes of the legislature.  After all, approval for the $64M Health/Nursing building is coming in this budget, which is a nod towards the progress ISU is making.  It's getting noticed here in Indy.  And that's a good thing.
> 
> Just wanted to add that I also realize that the state created most of the financial problems cities are facing right now.  Not all of the problems TH faces are of their own making.  It just sucks that it has the potential to derail what should be a really fantastic project.



Well stated. I just wanted to be clear that I don't think the problems we face in Terre Haute are any more or less dire than what other cities of our size and makeup are faced with. For every step forward, we take two steps back. I think (as people who are either from Terre Haute or have a vested interest) tend to over exaggerate our negative state of affairs. The old adage we use during hoops season, things are never quite as bad as they seem and they are never quite as good as they seem.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Well stated. I just wanted to be clear that I don't think the problems we face in Terre Haute are any more or less dire than what other cities of our size and makeup are faced with. For every step forward, we take two steps back. I think (as people who are either from Terre Haute or have a vested interest) tend to over exaggerate our negative state of affairs. The old adage we use during hoops season, *things are never quite as bad as they seem and they are never quite as good as they seem*.



Tru dat...


----------



## sycamore tuff

ITF, I'm not implying in my question that you are wrong.  I would just like to be educated in the reasons for your statement.  What exactly has the state of Indiana done to create city financial problems?  Thanks and have a great evening.  Also , will you be coming to town for the football scrimmage Friday?


----------



## IndyTreeFan

sycamore tuff said:


> ITF, I'm not implying in my question that you are wrong.  I would just like to be educated in the reasons for your statement.  What exactly has the state of Indiana done to create city financial problems?  Thanks and have a great evening.  Also , will you be coming to town for the football scrimmage Friday?



Hey Tuff, I won't be able to make the scrimmage as I can't get away that early.  Wish I could.  I'm hoping my son can make it and give me a report!

My statement had to do with the state greatly reducing the property tax revenue to cities (and all kinds of other governmental entities) without giving them any way to make up that revenue.  I think Terre Haute gets hit particularly hard because when TH tries to do things other localities do, for instance a local sales tax, to make up the difference, the state generally says, "No, Terre Haute, you can't do that.  Marion County can, but that's because all us legislators want access to suites at Lucas Oil Stadium..."  That's all I'm saying.  Cutting taxes is a good thing, but when they passed the property tax bill, the only thing that lawmakers said was "Your taxes are going to go down.  Isn't that great?"  They failed to mention that those taxes pay for all kinds of services that people expect.  Having only half the debate is part of what's wrong with politicians.  Hell, _*I*_ could win an election by going around asking if everyone wanted their taxes to go down.  And I'm pretty ugly.  It's the rest of the issue where the devil is found and it's that devil that is biting Terre Haute, and just about every other city in the state.

I actually applaud Mayor Bennett for thinking outside the box in forming public/private partnerships such as the sludge to diesel plant.  I just hope the people he's dealing with are on the up-and-up and the city doesn't take it in the backside...

That's all I was saying...


----------



## Daveinth

IndyTreeFan said:


> Hey Tuff, I won't be able to make the scrimmage as I can't get away that early.  Wish I could.  I'm hoping my son can make it and give me a report!
> 
> My statement had to do with the state greatly reducing the property tax revenue to cities (and all kinds of other governmental entities) without giving them any way to make up that revenue.  I think Terre Haute gets hit particularly hard because when TH tries to do things other localities do, for instance a local sales tax, to make up the difference, the state generally says, "No, Terre Haute, you can't do that.  Marion County can, but that's because all us legislators want access to suites at Lucas Oil Stadium..."  That's all I'm saying.  Cutting taxes is a good thing, but when they passed the property tax bill, the only thing that lawmakers said was "Your taxes are going to go down.  Isn't that great?"  They failed to mention that those taxes pay for all kinds of services that people expect.  Having only half the debate is part of what's wrong with politicians.  Hell, _*I*_ could win an election by going around asking if everyone wanted their taxes to go down.  And I'm pretty ugly.  It's the rest of the issue where the devil is found and it's that devil that is biting Terre Haute, and just about every other city in the state.
> 
> I actually applaud Mayor Bennett for thinking outside the box in forming public/private partnerships such *as the sludge to diesel plant*.  I just hope the people he's dealing with are on the up-and-up and the city doesn't take it in the backside...
> 
> That's all I was saying...



People Bitched about the smell of Terre Haute when they were making paper out of trees on that location Imagine what the smell will be when they make Fuel out of SHIT


----------



## SycamoreFan317

When I did my student teaching at Plymouth directly north of the football field was a fertilizer plant where they would cook animal hides and turn it in to fertilizer the smell was ungodly.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

As I understand it, the leader of the company proposing to do this promises that there will be no smell at all.  Now, I realize one can promise the moon and deliver a pile of s--t, but it seems to me that the city could build in some regulatory protection against this.  You would think, at any rate.

As an outsider, but a person who calls Terre Haute my hometown, I just hate to see the city lose out on what _could _be a great investment by a private entity, providing revenue to the city and jobs to the people of Terre Haute.  Wild eyed hyperbole and scare mongering lost Terre Haute a multi-hundred million dollar BASF plant in the late 80's, and I cannot help but think that it could happen again here.  If the city truly isn't on the hook for any of this, and I'm no expert mostly because I live somewhere else, and the only risk is that the city might not get the revenue stream out of it, why not let Powerdyne build it?  And then go after some other business that would like to start up here, and enter into a partnership with them.  And then another, and another, and another.  Diversify.  Then, if one or two don't work out, it won't matter as much.  But it's all gotta start somewhere.

Just my two cents.  Won't really affect me one way or the other, but I would like to see my hometown have some good economic news for a change.


----------



## bent20

I get the BASF comparison, but the "scare mongering" was warranted. BASF has an awful track record when it comes to pollution. Also, losing out on BASF isn't the real problem, it was losing Columbia House, Pfizer, Sony downsizing, etc., that has hurt Terre Haute over the last 20 years. And I think it's worth noting that losing those businesses was no one's fault, certainly the city wasn't to blame. In each case, the business dried up - technology changed or the demand diminished.

As for the renovation, I have no doubt once the state funding comes through the city and university will find a way to get it done.


----------



## bent20

I know I'm taking us further off topic, but found this list interesting:

http://terrehauteedc.com/index.php/...top-employers-terre-haute-vigo-county-indiana

When I worked at Columbia House in the late 90s (the company's peak), they were one of, it not the, top employer in the city with over 4,000 employees. Now the top employer in the city has just over 2,000, and three out of the top five are all publically funded. In another 10 years, you'll probably be able to remove Sony from this list, too.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

bent20 said:


> I get the BASF comparison, but the "scare mongering" was warranted. BASF has an awful track record when it comes to pollution. Also, losing out on BASF isn't the real problem, it was losing Columbia House, Pfizer, Sony downsizing, etc., that has hurt Terre Haute over the last 20 years. And I think it's worth noting that losing those businesses was no one's fault, certainly the city wasn't to blame. In each case, the business dried up - technology changed or the demand diminished.
> 
> As for the renovation, I have no doubt once the state funding comes through the city and university will find a way to get it done.



Scare mongering is exactly what it was.  Remember the guy with the British (or Aussie, I can't remember that clearly) accent who came to Terre Haute lamenting the horrible state of El Dorado, Arkansas?  How horrible it was because of the BASF plant there?  I read some articles from people in that area of Arkansas who said exactly the opposite - life was good in El Dorado.  BASF was a good corporate neighbor.  It was part of a larger agenda.  But that's in the past and there's nothing to be done about it now.

My point was that diversity in the marketplace would make the closing or downsizing of existing companies hurt less.  If we'd have gotten that BASF plant, who knows how many other companies might have taken advantage of the industrial park and even further diversified Terre Haute's employer base.  Then, losing Columbia House, Pfizer, and others wouldn't have had the degree of effect that they did.

I've heard many times over the years that companies decided not to locate in Terre Haute because of the reticence of the people to accept new businesses.  One developer even said that he was pulling the plug on his proposed development because after dealing with the almost automatic negative reaction of the people of Terre Haute to anything new, stating, "Terre Haute is not a speculative town.  You don't want to sink money in here because you'll get no support and a lot of headaches."

The city should be going for every bit of private development it can get.  Some will make it, some won't.  But the key is getting enough to locate in TH that the ones that don't make it can be easily absorbed by the ones who do.


----------



## bent20

BASF wouldn't have had the impact in Terre Haute that many assume.

http://wthitv.com/2014/11/11/basf-job-loss-still-impacting-vigo-county-today/

And nothing shows up for BASF in El Dorado, Ark. Google it and you come up with Lycus Ltd., which isn't even on a list of the town of 18,000's largest employers.

Yes, Terre Haute could do many things to be more welcoming to businesses, so can a lot of towns, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

bent20 said:


> BASF wouldn't have had the impact in Terre Haute that many assume.
> 
> http://wthitv.com/2014/11/11/basf-job-loss-still-impacting-vigo-county-today/
> 
> And nothing shows up for BASF in El Dorado, Ark. Google it and you come up with Lycus Ltd., which isn't even on a list of the town of 18,000's largest employers.
> 
> Yes, Terre Haute could do many things to be more welcoming to businesses, so can a lot of towns, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful.



Being careful is a good thing.  Having an automatic "NO" response to any new business is NOT a good thing.  Particularly in this case, if the city is TRULY on the hook for nothing, why the outcry?  Like I said, I don't know enough about the details of this Powerdyne thing, so I guess I'll give the mayor the benefit of the doubt.  He's been a pretty good mayor, and I'd say he definitely has Terre Haute's best interests at heart.

Be careful, yes.  But don't just run 'em out of town because they're new...


----------



## IndyTreeFan

In the final state budget, approved last night, ISU was given authority to bond $75,000,000 for Hulman Center renovations.  However, the state will only remiburse $37,500,000, or half.  They also prohibited ISU from giving up or leasing ownership of the facility to any other entity without approval from the state.  So, the role of the city and county is up in the air, if I read this right.  And we all know that the Foundation is incapable of raising serious money, so where does ISU go from here?

What will be the consequences of this final budget approval to the project as originally stated?


----------



## southernindianaballer

Here is an article...  I guess 35 million for the Hulman Center is nothing to be upset with....  A lot can be done with 35 million...  I would think there was some "fluff" in the original estimated cost.
http://www.mywabashvalley.com/story/d/story/state-budget-impacts/14914/9QFkpYKjiU6_U16HmrgVFg

64 million for the Nursing, Health and Human Services... that's a big win for ISU - Big picture - it's all GOOD.  Reality - not what we hoped for - but Hulman will get better with 35 million + and the reason ISU exists - education....  wow... ISU will have a big impact on health and medical industries/professions with this improvement - this will help recruit talented students and professors.
Well...  the IU Assembly Hall renovation will cost about the same as the Hulman Center was awarded - and we could come up with more.  Interesting that ISU gets the same amount that IU has approved for Assembly Hall - and IU's was mostly a donation.
Things are getting better at a rapid pace is the reality.  At least that's the way I see it.  Some may disagree.  Really... if anyone looks at ISU 8 years ago and looks at what has happened academically and in campus expansion/improvements - it's pretty kewl.  I think most current students are tired of construction and there is more coming...  LOL  It's for the better.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

southernindianaballer said:


> 64 million for the Nursing, Health and Human Services... that's a big win for ISU - Big picture - it's all GOOD.  Reality - not what we hoped for - but Hulman will get better with 35 million + and the reason ISU exists - education....  wow... ISU will have a big impact on health and medical industries/professions with this improvement - this will help recruit talented students and professors.



This! Worked in the healthcare filed my entire professional career and Indiana State has a good Nursing Health and Human Services Program that will only be elevated by this!


----------



## southernindianaballer

IndyTreeFan said:


> In the final state budget, approved last night, ISU was given authority to bond $75,000,000 for Hulman Center renovations.  However, the state will only remiburse $37,500,000, or half.  They also prohibited ISU from giving up or leasing ownership of the facility to any other entity without approval from the state.  So, the role of the city and county is up in the air, if I read this right.  And we all know that the Foundation is incapable of raising serious money, so where does ISU go from here?
> 
> What will be the consequences of this final budget approval to the project as originally stated?



That's interesting...  ISU must retain ownership unless state approves otherwise... hmmm.... oh well... maybe ISU can reap the profits of a convention center instead of the city.   LOL  With some suites in Hulman - a positive bump in P&L should be seen, too.  I kinda wondered why ISU would give up ownership if the plan/center would generate a profit.  But who am I?  LOL   I must be missing something here?  Help...  anyone know more about what it takes to run/plan events at a convention center?  It does seem to be out of the "scope" of a university's typical responsibilities.  LOL  What about beverages... Oh No!  Surely, something can be worked out!


----------



## treeman

So basically the state will pay half of a $75M renovation to the Hulman Center, ISU has to come up with the other half?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

southernindianaballer said:


> That's interesting...  ISU must retain ownership unless state approves otherwise... hmmm.... oh well... maybe ISU can reap the profits of a convention center instead of the city.   LOL  With some suites in Hulman - a positive bump in P&L should be seen, too.  I kinda wondered why ISU would give up ownership if the plan/center would generate a profit.  But who am I?  LOL   I must be missing something here?  Help...  anyone know more about what it takes to run/plan events at a convention center?  It does seem to be out of the "scope" of a university's typical responsibilities.  LOL  What about beverages... Oh No!  Surely, something can be worked out!



Because they don't have the money to finance the project and in the bigger picture they NEED the renovations done because of decades of neglect to the building so someone else would be on the hook for upkeep while they could just "rent" it as needed I'd imagine.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> So basically the state will pay half of a $75M renovation to the Hulman Center, ISU has to come up with the other half?



That is the way I read it, too. 

If this project truly can be profitable and as good of a thing for the University as the made it sound, they need to come up with the money some how, some way. I don't care if that is a mix of donations, bonds and/or even dipping into the endowment. They have come a LONG way in the last 5-10 years and cannot slip back into the neglect and deflect mindset that plagued the University for decades. 

This is where you'll see how good your leadership and fundraising truly are. It's not much, but I'd make a small donation towards the project if asked. Question is, will they dig deep and turn over every rock or just give the "well, we tried" line again?


----------



## IndyTreeFan

I think the University is actually pretty happy with the bill as it passed. The University retains ownership of a valuable asset, but the city/county still want the convention center, so I think we'll see the full $75M spent and have a world class facility. I'm very optimistic after talking to a few people yesterday. This is a very good outcome for ISU.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> This is where you'll see how good your leadership and fundraising truly are. It's not much, but I'd make a small donation towards the project if asked. Question is, will they dig deep and turn over every rock or just give the "well, we tried" line again?



I will actually not donate toward this project. Not until they give me a definitive answer as to how and when the "Phases" of the new track will be started/completed and how they plan to pay for it. I aint giving them another dime until then. Why you ask? Because you can't just keep coming out and saying you are going to do these damn projects in phases and then not communicating a timeline or a plan to "phase" out a project. By defintion, that is not a project being done in "phases" at all - it is called Phase 1 and that is the only phase that they ever really planned to do in the first place. I don't care if it takes 10 freaking years and the track needs resurfaced again by that time, give me the plans and how you plan to pay for it. 

Done.


----------



## ISUCC

I'm with SSOM here, I will not give another penny to ISU until a definitive fund raising campaign comes out to finish the new track complex. I'm still not happy with the foundation reducing the amount of money donated by the Gibsons, you simply do not ask people to give less money than they want. It's inexplicable.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I will actually not donate toward this project. Not until they give me a definitive answer as to how and when the "Phases" of the new track will be started/completed and how they plan to pay for it. I aint giving them another dime until then. Why you ask? Because you can't just keep coming out and saying you are going to do these damn projects in phases and then not communicating a timeline or a plan to "phase" out a project. By defintion, that is not a project being done in "phases" at all - it is called Phase 1 and that is the only phase that they ever really planned to do in the first place. I don't care if it takes 10 freaking years and the track needs resurfaced again by that time, give me the plans and how you plan to pay for it.
> 
> Done.



I agree with your sentiment. Been saying it for years.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> I agree with your sentiment. Been saying it for years.



Thank you... Generally speaking, I don't intend to road block fundraising efforts for what I also believe to be an important project. The Hulman Center renovation is long over due and I'd love to assist finically, but not until they give me the answers I am looking for with the Track and Field facility. Not until they call every single track and field alum and ask them to give toward that facility - I simply will not do it, not until they do it the right way.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I will actually not donate toward this project. Not until they give me a definitive answer as to how and when the "Phases" of the new track will be started/completed and how they plan to pay for it. I aint giving them another dime until then. Why you ask? Because you can't just keep coming out and saying you are going to do these damn projects in phases and then not communicating a timeline or a plan to "phase" out a project. By defintion, that is not a project being done in "phases" at all - it is called Phase 1 and that is the only phase that they ever really planned to do in the first place. I don't care if it takes 10 freaking years and the track needs resurfaced again by that time, give me the plans and how you plan to pay for it.
> 
> Done.



Fair enough. If I were a Track/XC alum I'd shut my wallet until I got answers as well.


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## SycamoreFan317

The city and county will benefit from this project greatly in hotel rooms, restaurants and virtually most of the hospitality industry seeing a increase in business so I don't see where the ownership issue is a problem. I would think they would be the same people that would give huge donations to see this get done. Does Vigo County have a restaurant tax like Marion and surrounding counties have for LOS? Nobody likes to raise taxes but it is always better to hit people passing through instead of your residents. What is the hospitality tax rate on hotel rooms? Just some thoughts.


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## southernindianaballer

That's kinda what I thought... But... as it was presented - it will be a profit center - and I think it will be "profitable" based on what i have seen with other facilities...  Profitable for the facility owner and the surrounding hospitality industry, etc.  So why give it up, as they planned to do initially?  If it's profitable they generate funds to maintain the facility and retain ownership to do more of what they want and control the renovation plans.  I like it better with ISU retaining ownership... They can employ ISU kids as marketing majors and create more hands-on learning opportunities for Business, Engineering, etc.  It's a big business - convention/hospitality/sports.  They better get "good/key" people managing it - usually another firm to manage... but in agreement with ISU will be nice.  After they digest this and the final plans are finished - hopefully they release a donation/marketing plan.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> Because they don't have the money to finance the project and in the bigger picture they NEED the renovations done because of decades of neglect to the building so someone else would be on the hook for upkeep while they could just "rent" it as needed I'd imagine.



That's kinda what I thought... But... as it was presented - it will be a profit center - and I think it will be "profitable" based on what i have seen with other facilities...  Profitable for the facility owner and the surrounding hospitality industry, etc.  So why give it up, as they planned to do initially?  If it's profitable they generate funds to maintain the facility and retain ownership to do more of what they want and control the renovation plans.  I like it better with ISU retaining ownership... They can employ ISU kids as marketing majors and create more hands-on learning opportunities for Business, Engineering, etc.  It's a big business - convention/hospitality/sports.  They better get "good/key" people managing it - usually another firm to manage... but in agreement with ISU will be nice.  After they digest this and the final plans are finished - hopefully they release a donation/marketing plan.
From the online reading.. it looks like the state is funding half the 75 million...  Also read where the state is giving each state regional university campus an additional 25 million for maintenance - it sounded like that was an unusual event, true?  Does this mean that ISU has an additional 25 million, which at varying amounts, could be used for "maintenance/upgrades" of Hulman and/or track facility and other areas?  Heck, if ISU already has their maintenance budgeted well (sounds like they do except for Hulman - which will now pay for itself) - 25 million can go a long way toward a few things in my mind which would fall under maintenance.
Could someone verify this 25 million?  Hard to believe that much would go to each university without regard to size and need.  Unless things were analyzed and each campus was in need.  What is a regional university?  Main campus of IU, PU, ISU, IUPUI, IPFW, USI, BSU, Vincennes?  That equates to 200 million that's mentioned?


----------



## shootingsycamore

I agree with much that's been said about fiscal support for this and other projects at ISU. Over the years our family has been VERY financially loyal to the University. Giving without question, no more. Philanthropy and the culture of giving hasn't been nurtured within the alumni base. The "old adage" is first you friend-raise then you fund-raise. The loyal supporters on this website are passionate and sincere, but what about the other 99,500 living alumni?


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## treeman

Now with the $35M that state is willing to give, theoretically can ISU put in $35M worth of upgrades to the Hulman Center without spending a cent of ISU money? Or does it have to be converted into a convention center for the state money to come in? Or Does ISU at least have to put forward a % of the project for the state to approve it?


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## SycamoreFan317

The welfare mentality is alive and well on the this board. If the city and county won't put up a significant amount then this project should just die.


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## bluestreak

SycamoreFan317 said:


> The welfare mentality is alive and well on the this board. If the city and county won't put up a significant amount then this project should just die.



WTF?


----------



## treeman

SycamoreFan317 said:


> The welfare mentality is alive and well on the this board. If the city and county won't put up a significant amount then this project should just die.



I along with every ISU fan/alum/student want the beautiful $75M convention center. But I was just wondering if the state put any restrictions on the $35M that they gave us. Or is it "Here is $35M do whatever the f*** you want with it."


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## Southgrad07

I would almost guarantee that the money comes with strings attached. I dont see them ponying up that much money for something that does not include a convention center.


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## hans1950

The way I read it  ISU has the authority to bond up to 75 Million.When they do that the state will pay off half of that amount.I would think doing the whole project and only having 37.5 million in bonded debt would not be a terrible situation.If we can get other donors to make that debt smaller that's even better.


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## IndyTreeFan

The city and the county are the ones who want the convention center.  From what I understand, the county and the Convention and Visitors Bureau will be the ones contributing because they are the ones with money.  The city is pretty much broke.  It's going to be the $75M renovation/addition, they aren't going to do it without the addition.  Let's just hope they do it right!


----------



## WOZ

ISUCC said:


> I'm with SSOM here, I will not give another penny to ISU until a definitive fund raising campaign comes out to finish the new track complex. I'm still not happy with the foundation reducing the amount of money donated by the Gibsons, you simply do not ask people to give less money than they want. It's inexplicable.



I agree we need to complete all phases of the new track first.  Question:  Are the bleachers at the old track good enough to use at the new track?
Or maybe they can be used at Memorial Stadium to replace that hideously embarrassing hill!


----------



## ISUCC

probably not, WOZ, I think ISU track wants a stadium, not on par with the brand spanking new track and field complex at Kansas

http://www.kuathletics.com/sports/2014/12/29/TRACK_1229141435.aspx?path=track

BUT somewhat close to that, with real seating, and not bleachers.


----------



## WOZ

ISUCC said:


> probably not, WOZ, I think ISU track wants a stadium, not on par with the brand spanking new track and field complex at Kansas
> 
> http://www.kuathletics.com/sports/2014/12/29/TRACK_1229141435.aspx?path=track
> 
> BUT somewhat close to that, with real seating, and not bleachers.


Thanks
After posting my thread, I checked out our Athletics Facilities page and noticed most of the bleachers had already been removed.


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## ISUCC

I sent a note to the track media relations gal that they need to update that facilities page to reflect that the Gibson Track Complex is the home for ISU track and field, not Marks field. Need to let people looking know we have a new facility.


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## Sycamore Proud

ISUCC said:


> I sent a note to the track media relations gal that they need to update that facilities page to reflect that the Gibson Track Complex is the home for ISU track and field, not Marks field. *Need to let people looking know we have a new facility*.



Couldn't agree more.  And why am I not surprised that the track showed Marks fireld??


----------



## 4Q_iu

iupui to be "recipient" of $32M Student Housing Project...  recipient as they'll spend $0 of their money... while the kids will pay $500-$950 per bed/month...

this and the 2014 project (below) have to affect ISU recruitment/retention of Indy metro students


http://www.ibj.com/articles/53054-32m-student-housing-project-proposed-near-white-river

A locally based developer is seeking to build a $32 million apartment project near the downtown IUPUI campus as demand for student housing keeps growing.

 Annex Student Living LLC is proposing to build a six-story, 248-unit building along West 10th Street just west of the White River. The company has agreed to buy the nearly 4-acre parcel pending approval from the city to rezone the property.

 Construction could start late this summer and should be finished before the start of the fall 2016 semester.

 The project, called The Annex on 10th, will offer studio apartments, as well as two- and four-bedroom units, priced from $500 to $950 per bed per month, Annex CEO Kyle Bach said. A total of 535 beds will be available.

Plus this project announcement from 2014:

IUPUI hopes to build a $45 million residence hall for 700 students on the campus in time for the 2016-17 academic year, the university announced Friday afternoon.

An exact site has not been chosen for the building, but the university said a location close to University Tower at 900 W. Michigan St. is being explored.

University officials say the residence hall is needed to address an 800-student waiting list for campus housing.

Fewer than 2,000 of IUPUI’s roughly 30,500 students reside on campus...

http://www.ibj.com/articles/48980-iupui-plans-to-build-45-million-residence-hall


----------



## treeman

Here is another story posted a few days ago: http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_57acf1e9-23e4-553b-8eaa-6176481243b3.html 

I found it interesting that because they are using the "shell" of the current Hulman Center, the $75M upgrade is actually comparable to a $150M new building, now that is something to get excited about! 

hopefully the momentum of this project isn't lost because of the time in between updates.


----------



## treeman

just to give us an idea on how big this project could be of us:

Notre Dame spent $24.6M to renovate their current basketball arena in 2009.

UCLA spent $136M to renovate their arena in 2012.

SMU spent $47M to renovate their arena in 2014.

Central Florida has a beautiful 10,000 seat arena that cost them $107M ($122M in today's money) in 2006.

As we speak Illinois is giving their arena a $160M renovation that will touch every inch of their building...or so they claim.

Richmond University just spent $17M to renovate their basketball arena. They decreased capacity from 9,000 to 7,000 but added a lot of bells and whistles to it. basically re gutting the entire arena and adding new chairs, video boards, concessions, etc. 

I know it's tough to compare our renovations with these because they didn't add a convention center or maybe they added something that we aren't, but this is just to give you an idea on what they did with that kind of money.


----------



## ISUCC

newest rendition


Proposed new look for Hulman Center w/new convention center shown to board today. SW corner new grand entrance. pic.twitter.com/GSOL3PwqgZ— TribStarHoward (@TribStarHoward) September 9, 2016


----------



## Sycamore Proud

*Hulman Center renovation pictures*

On Facebook with Tom James:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...=a.71823145043.85399.665885043&type=3&theater 

I will update when available.


----------



## TreeTop

Does it look awesome, the interior from the facebook link.....Yes.  But WHY OH WHY WON'T THEY JUST TAKE OUT A COUPLE THOUSAND SEATS, AND MAKE IT AN 8,000 CAPACITY?!?!?!?!  

We hardly ever exceed even 6,000.


----------



## Southgrad07

I totally agree..but good luck convincing the state to give you 38 mil to downsize your arena. The big hook for that money is to build the convention center and attract new events. Lowering seating capacity by that much is a tough sell. I do think they could get away with  chopping off 500 seats and adding real suites


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Couple of additional pics.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...=a.71823145043.85399.665885043&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...=a.71823145043.85399.665885043&type=3&theater


----------



## ISUCC

more photos with an article

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...tm_source=twitterfeed_news&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## BankShot

ISUCC said:


> newest rendition
> 
> 
> Proposed new look for Hulman Center w/new convention center shown to board today. SW corner new grand entrance. pic.twitter.com/GSOL3PwqgZ— TribStarHoward (@TribStarHoward) September 9, 2016

The Bird Statue will accent this entrance PERFECTLY.

More background involving Ratio Architects...

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/business/2011-01-10/ratio-architects-merging-firm-nc.html


----------



## BrokerZ

No more orange seats. Rejoice, all!


----------



## treeman

Things I like:
1. Dropping seating capacity to 9,000 for basketball games (although i wish it would be in the 8,000-8,500 range).
2. Lowering the ceiling. It will help with directing noise to the floor instead of getting lost in the arena, which will help with the crowd noise that we complain about ALL THE TIME! It will also help give the arena a "cozy" feeling making you feel more apart of the action.
3. Electric/mechanical - a new lighting system will do WONDERS to the game day experience. All the other mechanical issues will help immensely with all of the broadcast/wifi issues we are having now.
4. Keeping the Bird statue where it is.
5. All of the street improvements around the arena. We are lucky to have a downtown arena, we must take advantage of that to keep it as pedestrian friendly as possible.
6. Getting rid of the orange seats.
7. I like the new rendering of the outside of the convention center, much more pleasing to look at.

Things i wish would happen:
1. They add "legit" suites to the arena. (I also wonder where they are taking out the 1,200 seats when they reduce capacity)
2. I know they didn't change the configurations to much of the arena. But i absolutely hate the space directly behind the hoops, I really hope that they add permanent seats to those two areas.
3. I hope they add an ISU hall of fame to entrance of the arena.
4. It would be nice if they added a ribbon board around the arena.
5. You can buy a beer at a basketball game.

Overall i am very happy with what is happening with the renovation and the direction that it is going. I truly think that this is a "make or break" moment for ISU athletics. It needs to be done right!


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

I'm too lazy to read any article but how long will this take? 5-7 years?


----------



## TreeTop

TreeTop said:


> Does it look awesome, the interior from the facebook link.....Yes.  But WHY OH WHY WON'T THEY JUST TAKE OUT A COUPLE THOUSAND SEATS, AND MAKE IT AN 8,000 CAPACITY?!?!?!?!
> 
> We hardly ever exceed even 6,000.



Finally read the article, and I see they're reducing to 9,000 seats.  I'm a reasonable person and am very happy with that compromise.

Excited about this project.


----------



## BankShot

treeman said:


> Things I like:
> 1. Dropping seating capacity to 9,000 for basketball games (although i wish it would be in the 8,000-8,500 range).
> 2. Lowering the ceiling. It will help with directing noise to the floor instead of getting lost in the arena, which will help with the crowd noise that we complain about ALL THE TIME! It will also help give the arena a "cozy" feeling making you feel more apart of the action.
> 3. Electric/mechanical - a new lighting system will do WONDERS to the game day experience. All the other mechanical issues will help immensely with all of the broadcast/wifi issues we are having now.
> 4. Keeping the Bird statue where it is.
> 5. All of the street improvements around the arena. We are lucky to have a downtown arena, we must take advantage of that to keep it as pedestrian friendly as possible.
> 6. Getting rid of the orange seats.
> 7. I like the new rendering of the outside of the convention center, much more pleasing to look at.
> 
> Things i wish would happen:
> 1. They add "legit" suites to the arena. (I also wonder where they are taking out the 1,200 seats when they reduce capacity)
> 2. I know they didn't change the configurations to much of the arena. But i absolutely hate the space directly behind the hoops, I really hope that they add permanent seats to those two areas.
> 3. I hope they add an ISU hall of fame to entrance of the arena.
> 4. It would be nice if they added a ribbon board around the arena.
> 5. You can buy a beer at a basketball game.
> 
> Overall i am very happy with what is happening with the renovation and the direction that it is going. I truly think that this is a "make or break" moment for ISU athletics. It needs to be done right!



Since a significant portion of this renovation is being subsidized by BOTH Terre Haute & Vigo County funds, I think the time is long overdue to also include local HS "greats" memorabilia thru the ages, thus reinforcing the image of Hoosier HOOP in WC Indiana.


----------



## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> This came out a bit earlier than I expected.  Positives:  Aggressive timeline (budget to be approved this year?), right man working it, the "right man" seems fairly confident, ISU and Wabash Valley really need this, it can be profitable, I would also think Union Hospital might be excited about it.
> Negatives:  People won't believe it can happen - and for good reason based on past experiences, profitability will be questioned - but really ROI can be there, people will question ability to utilize, people will say we can't fill Hulman now so why do anything (we can fill it - look at last year's Wichita State game), seating will likely be decreased a bit but potentially replaced with higher revenue suites - maybe that's a positive.  All understandable concerns, really...
> This is good.  Heck - if budget is approved this year - maybe construction could start late 2016?  Football stadium design to start following Hulman approval?  Just thinking...  I bet Dr. Bradley wants the football stadium done before he leaves.



Keep thinking...    There's virtually ZERO chance the State of Indiana spends 1 cent on a new football stadium study, concept design, theory of stadium planning, etc.

I'm pretty sure the only way this plan was approved was the Convention Center angle...

What is State and/or Terre Haute going to use as tie/link for the city regarding a new football study?

I'm also VERY certain that ISU will continue to have football as long as Dr Bradley is the president; I'm highly skeptical his successor will be able to sustain football.


----------



## treeman

Slightly off topic here. but I just saw a picture of our Sycs practicing inside Hulman and I noticed there was a "michelob ultra" advertisement on one of the big boards placed in the upper corner. I would think that means we will be selling beer at games this year. Please correct me if im wrong.


----------



## southernindianaballer

This rendering probably isn't very close to what the final product will look like?  Whether it is or not - HC will be a premier facility.  I can see the design of a curtain that drops for a more intimate setting of about 7K.  Respectable area for the press and who knows... suites?  Again, this is a very nice facility, not sure if it is close to the final product.  Anyone know more?  Beautiful, modular, open design, and functional in my eyes....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> Slightly off topic here. but I just saw a picture of our Sycs practicing inside Hulman and I noticed there was a "michelob ultra" advertisement on one of the big boards placed in the upper corner. I would think that means we will be selling beer at games this year. Please correct me if im wrong.



I'd imagine you're correct although you've been able to get it for years in the Varsity Club area.


----------



## treeman

Baller, where did you get that rendering from? I really like that layout a lot. Gives the Hulman a unique look and a profesional style arena


----------



## southernindianaballer

treeman said:


> Baller, where did you get that rendering from? I really like that layout a lot. Gives the Hulman a unique look and a profesional style arena



https://treessportmedia.com/2016/09/24/hulman-center-set-for-renovations/

If this happens and it looks like it will - this puts ISU in an elite facility group.   The convention center will create some revenue too...  I like the way the end is open to the convention center and more seats can be rolled in if needed.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Looks very nice.  I'm going to enjoy my season tickets now. They may not be affordable in this setting.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

While all of this work is being done we will still be able to host games? Where else could we play if not?


----------



## niklz62

SycamoreFan317 said:


> While all of this work is being done we will still be able to host games? Where else could we play if not?



It will have to take a while wont it?


----------



## 4Q_iu

SycamoreFan317 said:


> While all of this work is being done we will still be able to host games? Where else could we play if not?




Depends -- they could complete a lot of the work around the game schedule....   And in the off-season


----------



## BrokerZ

SycamoreFan317 said:


> While all of this work is being done we will still be able to host games? Where else could we play if not?



I'm assuming they'll do all the construction/renovation that pertains to everyone else, and then focus on the seating bowl, court, locker rooms, etc. in the offseason.  It won't be a picnic to attend games during construction, but they'll be able to still play there amidst the activity.

The Kansas City Royals did that during their ballpark renovation.  They basically played in a ball field in the middle of a construction site, which wasn't ideal for the fans necessarily, but it never interrupted the actual play on he field.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Or they could just ask everyone to sit in the lower bowl since it's mainly empty anyway?

I kid... sorta.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Or they could just ask everyone to sit in the lower bowl since it's mainly empty anyway?
> 
> I kid... sorta.




:shocked2:  That type of heresy will lead to you being BANNED from MBB games!

You WILL sit in your assigned seat REGARDLESS of actual attendance!  :shocked2:


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Or they could just ask everyone to sit in the lower bowl since it's mainly empty anyway?
> 
> I kid... sorta.



I thought the lower bowl was sold out for every game already?  I'm confused.


----------



## 4Q_iu

BrokerZ said:


> I thought the lower bowl was sold out for every game already?  I'm confused.




Sold out... likely yes, in the sense that the ticket for those seats are sold.

The confusion lies in the fact that game-to-game, the ticket isn't USED...

As in the 'ticket owner' is NOT Present for the game


----------



## BrokerZ

4Q_iu said:


> Sold out... likely yes, in the sense that the ticket for those seats are sold.
> 
> The confusion lies in the fact that game-to-game, the ticket isn't USED...
> 
> As in the 'ticket owner' is NOT Present for the game



I was being very sarcastic with my post.  There's no confusion on my part.  Its' just ridiculous that I can't buy single-game lower bowl tickets online.  I'm going to potentially be in town on 12/28 over the holidays and would like to catch the ISU/WSU game.  No lower-bowl tickets available, which is a joke.


----------



## Fiji Bill 72

Love the new design. Will add to the east side of the campus.


----------



## 4Q_iu

BrokerZ said:


> I was being very sarcastic with my post.  There's no confusion on my part.  Its' just ridiculous that I can't buy single-game lower bowl tickets online.  I'm going to potentially be in town on 12/28 over the holidays and would like to catch the ISU/WSU game.  No lower-bowl tickets available, which is a joke.




I agree -- though I've had fairly good luck with walk-up sales; i ask for lower bowl, I don't think I've ever NOT been able to...

but then the HC ticket office tends to be a hit or miss office imo


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Since lower bowl seats are considered as being attended if sold and vacant, I see no reason that all seats are considered in attendance.  ALL students get free admission.  There are more students that seats.  All seats are "paid for".  Using my logic I can't remember the last time the Hulman Center was not sold out.  Seems like students are being told they don't count.  Now am I being serious, sarcastic or just rambling?  Maybe a little of each?


----------



## southernindianaballer

Fiji Bill 72 said:


> Love the new design. Will add to the east side of the campus.



Yes, I agree....  and West side will be anchored by the new HHS building, remodeled towers, new Annex 41, and more.  South has Federal Hall, 500 Wabash, Cherry St Highland Quarters, Tech Bldg,  etc.  North side has train tracks LOL.  Has anyone heard more about the Pedestrian friendly 41 upgrade?


----------



## treeman

Didn't know where to stick this, but SIU just got the "okay" to start selling beer at football and basketball games. Should be something we keep an eye on to see how it goes.


----------



## niklz62

treeman said:


> Didn't know where to stick this, but SIU just got the "okay" to start selling beer at football and basketball games. Should be something we keep an eye on to see how it goes.



I think it will go sideways for them if their historical reputation holds true lol


----------



## BankShot

*HC News - Thursday, March 2nd*

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_a5ea72a6-6179-5eac-a8a1-20a97e91dc84.html


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Unbelievable.


----------



## niklz62

can they do this by local referendum?


----------



## 4Q_iu

niklz62 said:


> can they do this by local referendum?



possible if the tax was only a city tax or a county tax...

deep-pocketed alums need to cough up some


----------



## Sycamore624

This is depressing. We all know our "deep pocketed alums" won't come forward so the project looks scrapped at this point.


----------



## meistro

Only in Terre Haute. Would have been nice to have some of that casino money. Oh wait, we can't have that either.


----------



## NewRelease24

meistro said:


> Only in Terre Haute. Would have been nice to have some of that casino money. Oh wait, we can't have that either.



No kidding. I was just in Owensboro, KY a couple of weeks ago and they are doing amazing things in that city. They even have a nice modern convention center in a town that is basically the same size as Terre Haute. If this project falls through, it will be an embarassment and a joke. I'm so sick of this area not being able to finish projects they start. They need to find a way to get this done.


----------



## BankShot

meistro said:


> Only in Terre Haute. Would have been nice to have some of that casino money. Oh wait, we can't have that either.



Life in the "fiefdom" can be rough, especially if the peasants keep playing an "out of tune" political fiddle. As I mentioned earlier, the group of TH "lobbyists" that recently went to the Statehouse in an effort to sway a pro-casino vote, were a cavalcade of no-namers STATEWIDE and frankly, failed miserably.


----------



## Southgrad07

Lots of negatives  to take away from the article...BUT one positive is that for the first time ive seen in writing the  city, county, and such willing to fork up 25 mil. That is a nice sum for our current financial situation .. The university, big donors, a true alumni  frudrasier, and smaller fundraising projects (think children's museum  or union hospital brick/tile projects) should be able to come up with 10 million!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

So... anything new on this?


----------



## WOZ

*Hulman Convention Center*

This could be worse than we think.  Dan Bradley's patience could be running thin with the convention board dragging their feet,  and the state of Indiana cutting our funding.
He could be contemplating retirement in another two years and then we're really screwed!!  He's the best president ISU athletics has ever known!
If he goes, we have got to find another president who is gung-ho on sports, or you can kiss a new football stadium good bye too!
Added:  And we won't be getting a new football stadium while Bradley is president.  He'll be getting out of Dodge and let the "new guy" handle that situation.


----------



## Southgrad07

WOZ said:


> This could be worse than we think.  Dan Bradley's patience could be running thin with the convention board dragging their feet,  and the state of Indiana cutting our funding.
> He could be contemplating retirement in another two years and then we're really screwed!!  He's the best president ISU athletics has ever known!
> If he goes, we have got to find another president who is gung-ho on sports, or you can kiss a new football stadium good bye too!
> Added:  And we won't be getting a new football stadium while Bradley is president.  He'll be getting out of Dodge and let the "new guy" handle that situation.



I agree urgency is there and that Bradley is a great president  for the UNIVERSITY..athletics???not so much. The city and county has went on record saying they will pledge 25 mil and the university has low balled them from their initial talks when this plan was hatched..isu is trying to rent the space (hc for games and practices ) for basically half of what they originally talked about  each season and at the beginning they said  to city leaders if you get down to 10 million the foundation will take care of the rest..guess what??37.5 +25=62.5 mil...so we are 12.5 off and isu is halting the 75 mil project over 2 mil..how bad do they really want it??


----------



## Southgrad07

I don't mean to come off anti isu..the city needs to be flexible too..However, the university has much more to lose by letting this opportunity go by the wayside and has more to gain..This thing could be the cornerstone for isu athletics for the next 40 years! So in my mind they should have to bend a bit here to make it happen. In an ideal world you'd hope our city and university leaders realize we play for the same team and this thing getting done is a win for ALL


----------



## 4Q_iu

Southgrad07 said:


> I don't mean to come off anti isu..the city needs to be flexible too..However, the university has much more to lose by letting this opportunity go by the wayside and has more to gain..This thing could be the cornerstone for isu athletics for the next 40 years! So in my mind they should have to bend a bit here to make it happen. In an ideal world you'd hope our city and university leaders realize we play for the same team and this thing getting done is a win for ALL



Agree on all points but if the money isn't there....   Is the Hautian economy booming?   Isn't ISU losing funding from the state capitol?  Which wealthy Alums are calling and offering to fund the difference?


----------



## Southgrad07

4Q_iu said:


> Agree on all points but if the money isn't there....   Is the Hautian economy booming?   Isn't ISU losing funding from the state capitol?  Which wealthy Alums are calling and offering to fund the difference?



All the more reason to act now...Universities around the country are seeing state funds slashed left and right...why wouldn't you seize upon a chance to get 37.5 mil in funding??  We have had enough money to redue almost every building on campus and add new student housing (all badly needed btw).. I just can't get my head around this project stalling over a few mil when the foundation/university has done nothing in an attempt to publicly raise funds.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Southgrad07 said:


> All the more reason to act now...Universities around the country are seeing state funds slashed left and right...why wouldn't you seize upon a chance to get 37.5 mil in funding??  We have had enough money to redue almost every building on campus and add new student housing (all badly needed btw).. I just can't get my head around this project stalling over a few mil when the foundation/university has done nothing in an attempt to publicly raise funds.


Which is exactly why they made a giant mistake when this project was first announced several years ago by not collecting every last cent they could for it from anyone excited about the project.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Larry Bird is either broke or doesn't care or both.


----------



## Southgrad07

carl nicks also has a cushy job with the pacers as well.  Those two could lead a hell of a fundraising campaign just by lending their names..have them make automated calls asking for donations or a video that could be sent by email to alums..the dudes live an hour away and would take 30 mins of their time to record/film..I assume we have reached out for their help in some way and they stiff armed us..but with the way ISU has handled this project I wouldn't bet my house on it.


----------



## Sycamore624

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Larry Bird is either broke or doesn't care or both.



He could careless about ISU hoops


----------



## BankShot

*Friday 4/7 HC Financing News*

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_2b006ae9-c61c-5d3c-88fd-224f99d5378a.html


----------



## NewRelease24

At least there is something still moving with this project.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

So with the food and beverage tax now in place, there lone hold up is the $12.5m funding gap from the local municipality, correct?

From a previous Star article:



> The Indiana General Assembly has budgeted $37.5 million for the Hulman Center project. Vigo County, the city of Terre Haute and the Terre Haute Convention and Visitors Bureau have pledged more than $25 million for the project. The entities are working to fill a $12.5 million funding gap, with the food and beverage tax targeted as a way to pay for long-term operational costs.


----------



## Southgrad07

Jason Svoboda said:


> So with the food and beverage tax now in place, there lone hold up is the $12.5m funding gap from the local municipality, correct?
> 
> From a previous Star article:



Ah kinda..The city,county, and bureau is pledging 25 mil. and ISU is balking at it. Originially city officials say that ISU was confident that if the city could fund all but 10mil of the project then the foundation and ISU could raise the rest. SO basically the way I understand it.. we are about 2-3 million dollars in bickering  away if the food and beverage tax goes through.


----------



## Blue Streaker

Southgrad07 said:


> Ah kinda..The city,county, and bureau is pledging 25 mil. and ISU is balking at it. Originially city officials say that ISU was confident that if the city could fund all but 10mil of the project then the foundation and ISU could raise the rest. SO basically the way I understand it.. we are about 2-3 million dollars in bickering  away if the food and beverage tax goes through.



My understanding is that the funding is done but the food and beverage tax is what everyone feels needs passes for annual operating costs.


----------



## Southgrad07

Blue Streaker said:


> My understanding is that the funding is done but the food and beverage tax is what everyone feels needs passes for annual operating costs.



Yep. I mean there is still some negotiating to do to fill the 2-3 million gap...But if that goes through you have got to figure both sides realize they are pissing away 37.5 mil up front and 1.5 annual dollars of free money if they don't make this thing work. Neither side would be able to justify leaving that money on the table over 2-3 mil..Not to mention what it would cost to continue to try and maintain the old HC in it's current condition.


----------



## BrokerZ

Blue Streaker said:


> My understanding is that the funding is done but the food and beverage tax is what everyone feels needs passes for annual operating costs.



This is my understanding, as well.   I believe someone was quoted as saying something to the effect of "without the food and beverage tax, it would be like buying a new car without being able to afford the gasoline."  I'm paraphrasing, of course, but that was the gist I remember receiving.


----------



## Southgrad07

BrokerZ said:


> This is my understanding, as well.   I believe someone was quoted as saying something to the effect of "without the food and beverage tax, it would be like buying a new car without being able to afford the gasoline."  I'm paraphrasing, of course, but that was the gist I remember receiving.



Bingo..Exactly the way it was presented to me


----------



## Jason Svoboda

So my guess is Indiana State knew this was going to make it through and this is probably the underlying theme for the dinner being held up here in Indianapolis next week. Hope there is more to it.


----------



## BankShot

*Food & Beverage Tax FAILS - Now What?*

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_2d14cbb6-ec92-576e-98d7-c7b3b080001b.html


----------



## BankShot

*TH Trib-Star: Is Hulman Center Project DEAD?*

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_b4d27193-2a6f-5356-b2e0-8a9e0d51c93f.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BankShot said:


> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_b4d27193-2a6f-5356-b2e0-8a9e0d51c93f.html


Man, that lastcamp guy on the Trib Star comments section really wants Terre Haute to return to the 80s. They don't advocate spending money on anything. I remember what the Haute was like in the 80s and its the reason they're in the position they are now instead of being well down the road.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Man, that lastcamp guy on the Trib Star comments section really wants Terre Haute to return to the 80s. They don't advocate spending money on anything. I remember what the Haute was like in the 80s and its the reason they're in the position they are now instead of being well down the road.




he sounds as intelligent as that other "genius" brewman...


hopefully they can get the $$ to do the project; hulman is in need of some basic, fundamental maintenance and rehab...  the convention center idea was the impetus for the $$$ to get it accomplished.


----------



## BankShot

4Q_iu said:


> he sounds as intelligent as that other "genius" brewman...
> 
> 
> Can't all be as "brilliant" as the 4Q, can we? King of the "Finger Men"...never played ANY sport in his life. Even w/ your keyboard, you're a "lost soul."


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Man, that lastcamp guy on the Trib Star comments section really wants Terre Haute to return to the 80s. They don't advocate spending money on anything. I remember what the Haute was like in the 80s and its the reason they're in the position they are now instead of being well down the road.




terre haute is, imo, no different than so many other mid-sized cities across the "rust belt" that haven't seen true growth for the last 30 years.

part of it is on the community, part on the leaders - business and government; other factors out of their control as well.


----------



## BankShot

4Q_iu said:


> terre haute is, imo, no different than so many other mid-sized cities across the "rust belt" that haven't seen true growth for the last 30 years.
> 
> part of it is on the community, part on the leaders - business and government; other factors out of their control as well.



Were it not for "Sanctuary Cities" and the Federal Govt. "gravy train," your "Bubble Heaven" on the East Coast likewise would've seen little growth. The big difference is that in many cities like TH & E-ville, local govt. is demolishing the slums, while on the East Coast, they use 'em for refugee and illegal immigrant housing while reaping in the Federal $$$ from the "body count.". 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...bubble-real-journalism-jobs-east-coast-215048


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Anyway, anyone hearing anything new on this? With Bradley retiring, are we looking at it being kicked out until the next President takes office?


----------



## rapala

Bradley stated that the Center was something plans on completing in a local interview.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

rapala said:


> Bradley stated that the Center was something plans on completing in a local interview.


He's leaving in January, right? So he has less than 6 months to get it done. Ambitious but I hope he can do it. Would certainly be the capper on his legacy here.


----------



## Westbadenboy

*Hulman Center ? ? ?  Anything .....good or bad ........happening with the renovation*

:waiting:

So is anything happening with Hulman Center ? ? ?


----------



## Bally #50

Westbadenboy said:


> :waiting:
> 
> So is anything happening with Hulman Center ? ? ?



At least Dr. B. said he'd like to get it finalized before he leaves. We'll see. They did NOT have their ducks in a row when it was voted on by the legislature. They need to have their end of the financing, at least on paper, before they will vote yes. It's a no brainer but........lot's of work to do.


----------



## rapala

Indy firm presented plans for the project.  Very modern  the committee voted 5 to 2 for the firm to continue with plan development.  They meet again July 3rd.


----------



## BankShot

Same design plans?

http://www.ratiodesign.com/project/indiana-state-university-hulman-center


----------



## Sycamore Proud

rapala said:


> Indy firm presented plans for the project.  Very modern  the committee voted 5 to 2 for the firm to continue with plan development.  They meet again July 3rd.



That is encouraging!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Curious who were the two "no" votes?!

I'd guess Judy Anderson and John Marvel but could be wrong...


----------



## TreeTop

http://www.tribstar.com/multimedia/...tml_1611e827-b8f9-5853-b92e-2d85ed54fe3b.html


----------



## BankShot

Not sure about the "tic tac toe" windows of the upstairs Conference Center...is this "structurally" necessary? Presents an "urban jungle" appearance that seems aesthetically unnecessary.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> http://www.tribstar.com/multimedia/...tml_1611e827-b8f9-5853-b92e-2d85ed54fe3b.html


Very sexy.


----------



## BankShot

Jason Svoboda said:


> Very sexy.



In that case, I guess the design theme is properly aligned with the history of TH. Wonder why the idea wasn't integrated into the new ISU Track, which is nearer to the "old neighborhood" where all the activity took place and was designed by the same architect?

Hot off the press re: HC Financing:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_e63398b7-091c-5698-b045-21d21596e481.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BankShot said:


> In that case, I guess the design theme is properly aligned with the history of TH. Wonder why the idea wasn't integrated into the new ISU Track, which is nearer to the "old neighborhood" where all the activity took place and was designed by the same architect?
> 
> Hot off the press re: HC Financing:
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_e63398b7-091c-5698-b045-21d21596e481.html



This is the only article that matters... I'm really confused why ISU doesn't have financial stake in this?


----------



## Westbadenboy

*Hulman Center .......*

So my question is, how long does Terre Haute and ISU have to finally put this thing together, get the funding sorted out, plans finalized, and actually start construction ?  I know some us (me) were stupidly optimistic things were happen rapidly in the weeks/months following the state offering this money.  Hell, we'd all be wishing for "someone" to step up and offer 25 - 30 million dollars to jump start something like this --- the state did it and it just seems like is just dragging on and on.

I know this is a different thing here in Carmel (and sometimes I think things move too quickly her), but cheezz the Carmel Mayor announces he wants more roundabouts, and new set of office buildings, or some new parks and wham bam .......... seems like a few days/weeks later there's a drawing of what it will look like in the paper and suddenly big machines are moving dirt.

Get going or get out of the way -- let's get this done !


----------



## BankShot

Well, Thursday's Trib-Star headlines adds further problems to the HC issue re: financing:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/mayor-...cle_48d4c574-6cc6-11e7-8b19-cf435fe0b738.html

When added to the recent FBI scrutiny (which is continuing) of the Vigo County Schools, you can _see & smell the dirty air_ floating over the Wabash Valley horizon. 

While discussing the project w/ my IN State legislative office a couple weeks ago, here's what they said:

"In 2015, the budget bill authorized the bonding of $75 million for the Hulman Center Renovation project. The state pledged half of that amount ($37.5 million) for fee replacement. In other words, there is not $37.5 million waiting in an account for the project. Rather, the state is obliged to pay $37.5 million in debt service payments as they become due.

Our fiscal staff and the State Budget Agency confirmed with me that the authority to issue this $75 million in bonds will exist until the language passed in the 2015 budget is repealed. Furthermore, the 2017 budget passed earlier this year builds in the fee replacement costs of this renovation into the appropriation for Indiana State University. 

Also, it is my understanding that Indiana State University could contribute to the needed matching funds for this project if they choose to do so."

And yes, the FBI is likely reviewing this BS scenario a couple years ago...

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_f14d50fa-f6a5-5dac-89f3-3ff0666b00fa.html


----------



## Westbadenboy

*Trump/Republican Care*

Sorry if this offends anyone -- especially my Republican friends.  And I don't want to turn this thread into a political discussion.  But this just reminds me of the whole health care mess in Washington DC now.
Repubicans bitched for years about ObamaCare  (a label THEY put on the program) and refused to allow any modifications to it to perhaps make it better -- at least partially because that would still leave Obama as some type of hero -- Lord knows no self-respecting Republican could allow that (just as no self-respecting Democrat these days could allow for anything the Republicans have done right to be applauded).

Now the Republicans have the power and they are totally fumbling and bumbling around -- they should have had a plan for the past 5 - 7 years, ready to put into place if they ever got the chance ........well, they've got the chance.
(Sorta reminds me of an earlier discussion we all had about the MVC having a plan in place in case Creighton and/or Wichita State left).

So now, after years of say'n "We ain't got no money to fix up Memorial Stadium or Hulman Center ..........sure wish one of our multi-millionaire alumni would write us a check" .........well, the State of Indiana did just that.  It may not be a pile of money sitting in a box at the Statehouse, but that's really what they've done.

And the movers & shakers of Terre Haute and ISU look an awful lot like the fumblers and bumblers in Washington DC to me .........
guess its kinda like old Donald himself said "this stuff is complicated" ..........

Sad ......Very Sad ............
:angry:


----------



## Westbadenboy

Someone who knows how to do this ...............forward my post above to every "mover & shaker" in Terre Haute and ISU

Hell -- send it on to the idiots (Rep and Demo) in Washington DC also

I'm pissed ! ! !


----------



## Fiji Bill 72

I like what you wrote. It is irritating how IU and Purdue can get things planned and built while we are still talking about it.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Fiji Bill 72 said:


> I like what you wrote. It is irritating how IU and Purdue can get things planned and built while we are still talking about it.




True but current $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ held by those institutions cover a LOT of "problems."

Not to mention the guaranteed truck-loads of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  from the Big Ten Network deal


----------



## bluebill

Westbadenboy said:


> Someone who knows how to do this ...............forward my post above to every "mover & shaker" in Terre Haute and ISU
> 
> Hell -- send it on to the idiots (Rep and Demo) in Washington DC also
> 
> I'm pissed ! ! !



Forwarding your remarks to the TRASH where they belong. ....... Basketball' man.


----------



## Westbadenboy

huhhhh ..........? ? ? ?

What ? ? ? ?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Westbadenboy said:


> huhhhh ..........? ? ? ?
> 
> What ? ? ? ?



I don't know if I am interpreting correctly but I think what he was trying to say is what you had to say was trash. In other words he didn't care too much for it. 

Not saying I agree or disagree. Could be wrong but that's what I think he was trying to say.............


----------



## Westbadenboy

I sorta got that .............although since there was no explanation, no real contribution to the discussion.
Look I'm sure it is complicated.
But you can't plead poverty for years and use that as a reason for why Hulman Center has issues.  Then get this opportunity and be struggling to put something together.
Who knows what lies down the road for college sports and renovation of HC might not make much difference for ISU ...............or it could be a game-changer.......just don't want to see this opportunity lost


----------



## bluebill

A little slow on the pick-up there....."What has Obamacare, and your political views, got to do with Hulman Center"?


----------



## niklz62

I dont want to start anything political but Ill state my one sided opinion that I prefer everyone not dispute and we can get back to the original topic while agreeing that what I said was on point.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

I think I've asked this before but can never get a solid answer... but why doesn't ISU just bond the difference? Is it because they technically don't own it so they don't feel like they should have to? This is a golden opportunity for a facility that is basically on campus so I just don't understand State's position fully. Help me out.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> I think I've asked this before but can never get a solid answer... but why doesn't ISU just bond the difference? Is it because they technically don't own it so they don't feel like they should have to? This is a golden opportunity for a facility that is basically on campus so I just don't understand State's position fully. Help me out.




are they able to issue more bonds?   I know there's a ton of other construction occurring on-campus, is there a cap that can be issued?

obviously the BEST way to fund this project is an "angel alumnus"...   though I don't think anyone has come forward


----------



## Southgrad07

I believe ISU feels that they have contributed their part with the states 37.5 mill and it's up to the city to cover the rest or very close to it. I would argue against that notion and say ISU has as much to gain or lose from this project as the city does.

 At some point they have to bend a little and either cough up more up front or at least be open to raised renting costs annually. So at least the city would have more annual income coming in to help maintain and run the place year to year. I know that is one of the big sticking points right now from the cities perspective... how do you fund the yearly up keep and maintenance? The tax that was shot down was suppose to do that...but ISU needs to come up with another solution and not use that failed legislature as an excuse as to why this thing can't happen.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Ok ...one more attempt at moving this discussion or at least dealing with the frustration I raised.  Its very simple, after years of hoping for some revenue to help pay for upgrades to Hulman Center it seems like the folks in Terre Haute and ISU are moving pretty slow --- and YES these folks are either politicans or very closely related to that type of occupation.  So the comparison to Washington DC was VERY valid -- huge issue .....lots of complaining for years by people in power positions ........opportunity for action and possible improvement .............and now lots of inaction, arguing, and nothing getting done.
And if you simply read my first post it attacks both Rep and Demo .........so not sure if you could have a clue about "my political views"
I'm not attacking anyone in particular in Terre Haute or ISU -- merely pointing out that the lack of action and agreement neither looks good or is cost effective -- costs I'm sure escalate every moment contracts are not signed and dirt starts flying.
And it pushes back another season the Sycamores will have to play in a world class facility and maybe get some traction in this revamped MVC.
There shouldn't be anything in any of the above that every ISU would disagree with.
And last -- make fun of Carmel if you wish -- sometimes it does seem a little snobby and such.  But dammit things get done here ..........there's a reason its named the best place to live in America.  Ideas come up, they're considered pretty quickly, and action gets going.  
Most of Indiana could learn a lesson from what happens here -- Terre Haute/ISU included !


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> are they able to issue more bonds?   I know there's a ton of other construction occurring on-campus, is there a cap that can be issued?
> 
> obviously the BEST way to fund this project is an "angel alumnus"...   though I don't think anyone has come forward



Yeah, that is probably true. Between the HHP building, dorms and everything else, they could be tapped. 

I think they can rule out angel alumnus but this is where I would bring up naming rights. At this point, could the building be renamed? If not, could it be split? For example, could it be renamed Thompson Thrift Arena and Hulman Convention Center?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Southgrad07 said:


> I believe ISU feels that they have contributed their part with the states 37.5 mill and it's up to the city to cover the rest or very close to it. I would argue against that notion and say ISU has as much to gain or lose from this project as the city does.
> 
> At some point they have to bend a little and either cough up more up front or at least be open to raised renting costs annually. So at least the city would have more annual income coming in to help maintain and run the place year to year. I know that is one of the big sticking points right now from the cities perspective... how do you fund the yearly up keep and maintenance? The tax that was shot down was suppose to do that...but ISU needs to come up with another solution and not use that failed legislature as an excuse as to why this thing can't happen.


I totally agree with you. I also don't agree that the state government's appropriation should be ISU's only skin in the game. At the same time, if they come up off money, what do they get out of it?


----------



## SycamoreFan317

This is where decades of horrible alumni contributions are coming back to haunt us. Our puny endowment fund is a joke.


----------



## WOZ

SycamoreFan317 said:


> This is where decades of horrible alumni contributions are coming back to haunt us. Our puny endowment fund is a joke.



Not just horrible alumni, but presidents that weren't business savvy or endowment offices not staffed or trained properly and without significant goals.


----------



## Southgrad07

Jason Svoboda said:


> I totally agree with you. I also don't agree that the state government's appropriation should be ISU's only skin in the game. At the same time, if they come up off money, what do they get out of it?



Well the most obvious thing is your flagship athletic program gets a huge boost to help sell itself and your name regionally  and  eventually nationally.

Beyond that a new hc will more than likely finally fill the NEW buildings that are currently vacant along Wabash. Thompson thrift could probably get what they are currently asking if businesses see a new hc and the events that come along with it. Most would say that is a reason for TH to step in and make it happen...and I wouldn't argue that it would improve the downtown image for the city and create new tax revenue.... however, from ISU's perspective it creates more bars/entertainment options for college kids and therefore helps sell the university to future students.


----------



## BankShot

Saturday Trib-Star article highlighting fiscal problems facing TH/Vigo:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_7dc98269-c045-5204-8a53-bc67939882df.html


----------



## nwi stater

I know this sounds nuts, but if the size would work, like unv. N Dakota, arrange it to play football there too. Everyone happy happy happy


----------



## shootingsycamore

WOZ said:


> Not just horrible alumni, but presidents that weren't business savvy or endowment offices not staffed or trained properly and without significant goals.



Bingo!!!! But one can't blame the alumni, there has been no sustained cultivation effort at all. Given the opportunity and a solid case for support, over time (years) the alumni will support ISU.The blame lies with the the overpaid leadership of the Foundation. One serious problem is the fact that the Foundation has lost very talented Developent Officers. The rest are trying to get out.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

BankShot said:


> Saturday Trib-Star article highlighting fiscal problems facing TH/Vigo:
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_7dc98269-c045-5204-8a53-bc67939882df.html



Good article. The schools have got to be first in line, then the Hulman Center and last of all why not privatize the jail and let somebody else convert buildings to jails, preferably for low risk offenders.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreFan317 said:


> Good article. The schools have got to be first in line, then the Hulman Center and last of all why not privatize the jail and let somebody else convert buildings to jails, preferably for low risk offenders.


Agreed. 

I'd also add that we stop the marijuana charade. Legalize it. Tax it and let those revenues provide relief in these systems. Not to mention it will also help with the jail issue as we're lining jails with marijuana offenders and putting unnecessary stresses on the system, it'll create jobs and there is a lot of recent medical evidence that it is helpful for a lot of health issues.


----------



## niklz62

nwi stater said:


> I know this sounds nuts, but if the size would work, like unv. N Dakota, arrange it to play football there too. Everyone happy happy happy



I dont think it could work could it?  I think you would literally have to tear it down and start over.


----------



## bent20

Jason Svoboda said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'd also add that we stop the marijuana charade. Legalize it. Tax it and let those revenues provide relief in these systems. Not to mention it will also help with the jail issue as we're lining jails with marijuana offenders and putting unnecessary stresses on the system, it'll create jobs and there is a lot of recent medical evidence that it is helpful for a lot of health issues.



Could save a buddy of mine from losing what little eye sight he has left due to glaucoma. 

It's been thrown out as an idea for saving Illinois from its massive budget issues, but no, they'd rather raise taxes or pretend like there are other ways to fix a problem that's now decades old.


----------



## bent20

niklz62 said:


> I dont think it could work could it?  I think you would literally have to tear it down and start over.



Or expand across the street toward Wabash, which would cost even more.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

It seems that RHIT, SMW and IVY Tech might use some of the facility--have they been asked for support?  With the current higher ed climate it seems like IVY Tech is highly regarded by the elected people in  if the State House.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bent20 said:


> Could save a buddy of mine from losing what little eye sight he has left due to glaucoma.
> 
> It's been thrown out as an idea for saving Illinois from its massive budget issues, but no, they'd rather raise taxes or pretend like there are other ways to fix a problem that's now decades old.



Pass this story to your buddy...  See if he still thinks pot is a cure all for glaucoma.   

http://www.oregoneyes.net/glaucoma-and-marijuana/


----------



## Westbadenboy

And again ..... the topic is Hulman Center .................................


----------



## 4Q_iu

Hmmm -- you must be speaking to Boda,,,    he introduced the idea of legalizing Pot to pay for Hulman...

C'mon Jason  -- STOP side-railing threads!!!


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> And again ..... the topic is Hulman Center .................................


Then open up your checkbook and float the project the difference. 

If you don't see how all of this political stuff is interconnected, I can't help you.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Then open up your checkbook and float the project the difference.
> 
> If you don't see how all of this political stuff is interconnected, I can't help you.




Jason,


    Shot you a PM in order to ease Norm's unwillingness (?), inability (?) aptitude (?) at reading an 'unrelated' post.


----------



## niklz62

This wouldnt ever happen, but if they bought traded the parking lot at Clabber Girl for the parking lot to the north of Clabber Girl they could expand across 9th st for the room they needed to make it big enough for a football field.  I dont think that is along the line of a renovation and would probably cost the same as starting over.


----------



## BankShot

Add this to complexity of the current TH political scene...

http://www.tribstar.com/news/update...cle_81cbf9ce-7955-11e7-9d4a-e74241d9aa87.html


----------



## BankShot

Looks like IN State Govt has "had it" re: TH's "balancing the books" circus act(s):

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_29e01192-838f-5341-9475-b500dc7269bb.html

- A letter from sent from IN State Govt., but NOBODY in TH was aware of it for 6 mos? lol


----------



## BankShot

*ISU flushes toilet on Hulman Convention Center idea*

http://www.tribstar.com/news/isu-in...cle_5e52a0d0-8772-11e7-be69-f30532bccd54.html


----------



## TreeTop

Oh boy.

Well, I look forward to seeing the new artist renderings of the Plan B renovations.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Disgraceful way to go out Dan... Not good. Blame everyone else for not getting the job done and say good riddance in the process. Nicely played.


----------



## Southgrad07

Haven't contacted anybody I know in city government about this..but if approved by the state I'm wondering if the county/city/or fundraising efforts by isu could kick in a few mil or whatever to get it around 40-45 million (could argue city still benefits from renovated HC). That would still be worth doing imo... You would only be talking about renovating the existing structure and that would shed millions in construction costs. It would still be free money from the state and beats the hell out of doing it alone.... HOWEVER, the big elephant in the room is will the state approve it and if Bradley knows they won't then as SSOM said this is a bullshit/cop out move...way above my pay grade at this point..just first reaction to it.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> Haven't contacted anybody I know in city government about this..but if approved by the state I'm wondering if the county/city/or fundraising efforts by isu could kick in a few mil or whatever to get it around 40-45 million (could argue city still benefits from renovated HC). That would still be worth doing imo... You would only be talking about renovating the existing structure and that would shed millions in construction costs. It would still be free money from the state and beats the hell out of doing it alone.... HOWEVER, the big elephant in the room is will the state approve it and if Bradley knows they won't then as SSOM said this is a bullshit/cop out move...way above my pay grade at this point..just first reaction to it.



The thing about it is - this has ramifications outside of just the Hulman Center and convention center. Bradley will not be residing in Terre Haute after he leaves - I'm sure he wishes us nothing but the bust but sure he could care less if the convention center gets done or not. He washed his hands of it - that is what happened. 

What he fails to realize (I'm sure he realized it but didn't care) in doing so he just created a divide between the Terre Haute Convention & Visitors Bureau (aka Greg Gibson & Dave Patterson). Why is that important in the grand scheme of things? For 1 Greg Gibson has more money and clout than anyone in this city and it aint even close. For two those guys have both done a lot for Indiana State - I could name several but for starters the LaVern Gibson Cross Country Course wouldn't exist without them (throw in John McNichols obviously). 

You want to go down that road by placing this at the feet of the city? The county? The THCVB? Be my guest - but when things go wrong maybe you should look in the mirror. The city/county can only raise taxes so much. The THCVB can only raise hotel/food/beverage tax so much. This is an Indiana State alumni/donor/foundation etc. etc. etc. problem and until you fix it we will continue to have shit facilities. You had the chance to create something beautiful for the University and downtown Terre Haute to be proud of and you shit the bed. All because they couldn't reach out a single donor (or multiple for that matter) or business for naming rights?? You've got to be kidding me. 

Anything short of what was proposed is a failure in my mind. I rest.


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The thing about it is - this has ramifications outside of just the Hulman Center and convention center. Bradley will not be residing in Terre Haute after he leaves - I'm sure he wishes us nothing but the bust but sure he could care less if the convention center gets done or not. He washed his hands of it - that is what happened.
> 
> What he fails to realize in doing so he just created a divide between the Terre Haute Convention & Visitors Bureau (aka Greg Gibson & Dave Patterson). Why is that important in the grand scheme of things? For 1 Greg Gibson has more money and clout than anyone in this city and it aint even close. For two those guys have both done a lot for Indiana State - I could name several but for starters the LaVern Gibson Cross Country Course wouldn't exist without them (throw in John McNichols obviously).
> 
> You want to go down that road by placing this at the feet of the city? The county? The THCVB? Be my guest - but when things go wrong maybe you should look in the mirror. The city/county can only raise taxes so much. The THCVB can only raise hotel/food/beverage tax so much. This is an Indiana State alumni/donor/foundation etc. etc. etc. problem and until you fix it we will continue to have shit facilities. You had the chance to create something beautiful for the University and downtown Terre Haute to be proud of and you shit the bed. All because they couldn't reach out a single donor or business for naming rights?? You've got to be kidding me.
> 
> Anything short of what was proposed is a failure in my mind. I rest.



Really agree with the Gibson angle.. not a dude you want to piss off...Like I said, first reaction as I was making dinner and didn't think that in depth about it lol.....

I think blame should be at the feet of ISU for not doing any kind of fundraising or exploring avenues of revenue to close the gap....that said, if the options are: this thing goes away period or try and get the state to fund the HC only and raise a few mil on the side??...then I'd take option 2 there...

The city has made their financial bed and did not give ISU a ton of revenue to work with...I just wish Bradley and company would of seen this project as an opportunity too good to pass up on for INDIANA STATE and made it happen regardless of the cities shortcomings. Long term ISU will pay far more than the city if nothing gets done.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> Really agree with the Gibson angle.. not a dude you want to piss off...Like I said, first reaction as I was making dinner and didn't think that in depth about it lol.....
> 
> I think blame should be at the feet of ISU for not doing any kind of fundraising or exploring avenues of revenue to close the gap....that said, if the options are: this thing goes away period or try and get the state to fund the HC only and raise a few mil on the side??...then I'd take option 2 there...
> 
> The city has made their financial bed and did not give ISU a ton of revenue to work with...I just wish Bradley and company would of seen this project as an opportunity too good to pass up on for INDIANA STATE and made it happen regardless of the cities shortcomings. Long term ISU will pay far more than the city if nothing gets done.



I know this doesn't apply to you at all but I'd say option 2 is great if your just a fan of Indiana State Basketball - then who gives a shit about the vitality of downtown Terre Haute. 

This isn't an option 1 or option 2 scenario for me. It's called find a way to meet your original commitment and take advantage to state funding on the table and better our city for years to come. I'm not interested in scenario #2 because I'm a Terre Haute guy and I care about he city just as much or more than I care about Indiana State or that dumb ass Hulman Center. 

Not getting it done is unacceptable. It's irresponsible to send out plans and gets peoples hopes up and then end this way. A couple Todd Golden tweets, a news article and a new President later and it's all done. Aint that the just the way shit goes. 

Not good. Not good at all.


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I know this doesn't apply to you at all but I'd say option 2 is great if your just a fan of Indiana State Basketball - then who gives a shit about the vitality of downtown Terre Haute.
> 
> This isn't an option 1 or option 2 scenario for me. It's called find a way to meet your original commitment and take advantage to state funding on the table and better our city for years to come. I'm not interested in scenario #2 because I'm a Terre Haute guy and I care about he city just as much or more than I care about Indiana State or that dumb ass Hulman Center.
> 
> Not getting it done is unacceptable. It's irresponsible to send out plans and gets peoples hopes up and then end this way. A couple Todd Golden tweets, a news article and a new President later and it's all done. Aint that the just the way shit goes.
> 
> Not good. Not good at all.



Can't argue with that at all from a citizens perspective. I Want to see it done as much as anyone. But this city has mismanaged funds for years now and with the jail/high schools/police station projects I understand the  few level headed people in local government being hesitant to go all in on this thing just to make it happen .. You better believe one way or another a new jail is coming (whether we draw up plans to or the state does it for us if we don't comply), these high schools are in horrible shape and can't last another decade, and we all know the pull police have in this town....With our current deficit I do get the city saying to ISU "you need to bridge the 13 million dollar gap"...which obviously Bradley and company wouldn't try to do... 

City screwed up years ago getting us in this hole to where they can't help out and ISU is screwing up now by potentially letting this state  money  go and risk trying to upkeep this archaic building that will require millions in maintenance a year....just a fucked up situation all around


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> Can't argue with that at all from a citizens perspective. I Want to see it done as much as anyone. But this city has mismanaged funds for years now and with the jail/high schools/police station projects I understand the  few level headed people in local government being hesitant to go all in on this thing just to make it happen .. You better believe one way or another a new jail is coming (whether we draw up plans to or the state does it for us if we don't comply), these high schools are in horrible shape and can't last another decade, and we all know the pull police have in this town....With our current deficit I do get the city saying to ISU "you need to bridge the 13 million dollar gap"...which obviously Bradley and company wouldn't try to do...
> 
> City screwed up years ago getting us in this hole to where they can't help out and ISU is screwing up now by potentially letting this state  money  go and risk trying to upkeep this archaic building that will require millions in maintenance a year....just a fucked up situation all around



Your last sentence said it all...

Agree with everything you said. My frustration is laying this at the feet of just the city or anyone else. Everyone is to blame including Dan Bradley and Indiana State - they just don't get a free pass. In my opinion they had more responsibility than anyone to make this happen. Perhaps because I believe they have more avenues to the funding than the other parties who are strapped for the reasons you named.


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## Bally #50

I'd like to say a couple of things. One, it was noted today in the press here and elsewhere, that a state audit of Terre Haute's finances were basically insolvent and that there basically was a “substantial doubt” about the city of Terre Haute’s “ability to continue as a going concern.” Bottom line, you are blaming Dr. Bradley and the University for going their own way? When I read this in the morning, I told myself that it won't take long for the shit to hit the fan with ISU. It didn't. What else would they do? Seriously. It's called jump off the fricking ship before it SINKS! 

So they decided to go on their own and get this financed the way THEY wanted it to be, get some more funds without taxation, and take the 37.5mil the state has allocated and GET IT DONE. It is not ISU's fault that the THCVB couldn't do jack shit to get this venture moving. It is not ISU's fault, that no usable tax on the project was implemented, and in my opinion, Terre Haute flushed the project down the toilet, period, and their faces should be red as blood. No, it will not have Terre Haute's name on the building and ISU will once again, take control (hopefully), they'll find an alumni to get naming rights (they have been close to that), and let the university put their mark on a building that should have a lot of life in it and call it their own. 

I'd say, if you don't like Bradley, you can blame him all you want, but the mayor of TH and the head of the THCVB should be both FIRED. Let the new president get it done the way we'd like and let Dr. B. retire with the grace he should be able to do. I'd say some of you  should point your fingers a different direction.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #47 said:


> I'd like to say a couple of things. One, it was noted today in the press here and elsewhere, that a state audit of Terre Haute's finances were basically insolvent and that there basically was a “substantial doubt” about the city of Terre Haute’s “ability to continue as a going concern.” Bottom line, you are blaming Dr. Bradley and the University for going their own way? When I read this in the morning, I told myself that it won't take long for the shit to hit the fan with ISU. It didn't. What else would they do? Seriously. It's called jump off the fricking ship before it SINKS!
> 
> So they decided to go on their own and get this financed the way THEY wanted it to be, get some more funds without taxation, and take the 37.5mil the state has allocated and GET IT DONE. It is not ISU's fault that the THCVB couldn't do jack shit to get this venture moving. It is not ISU's fault, that no usable tax on the project was implemented, and in my opinion, Terre Haute flushed the project down the toilet, period, and their faces should be red as blood. No, it will not have Terre Haute's name on the building and ISU will once again, take control (hopefully), they'll find an alumni to get naming rights (they have been close to that), and let the university put their mark on a building that should have a lot of life in it and call it their own.
> 
> I'd say, if you don't like Bradley, you can blame him all you want, but the mayor of TH and the head of the THCVB should be both FIRED. Let the new president get it done the way we'd like and let Dr. B. retire with the grace he should be able to do. I'd say some of you  should point your fingers a different direction.



You're most certainly biting off more than you can chew with this. 

Let me start with this. I think Dan Bradley is the best thing to ever happen to Indiana State. I think what he's done from a business standpoint for this University is exceptional. I think he was very involved in the community and cares deeply about Indiana State. From an academic standpoint I think he was solid - but probably not the greatest. Athletics were not a majority priority for him in my estimation. All that said, he leaves us in a better place than when he got here and that is all you can ask. So don't put words in my mouth about blaming Bradley (ISU) - I said the blame is to be shared and shouldn't be put on any one party involved. 

Terre Haute is in bad finaicnal shape - no doubt. Can't argue and have no intention on arguing that point. 

In closing you or anyone else can believe this is not an ISU problem all you want. The fact of the matter is Indiana State University had the ability to not only upgrade the facility, but build a convention center onto the facility - they released the plans and still didn't have any alumni/donor dollars to get the project done. If you can't read between the lines I will spell it out for you wanting to point the finger at whomever - alumni and people don't give a shit about Indiana State Athletics, I hate to be the one to have to deliver that message to you because I'm sure you don't want to hear it. This project would have got done at places where they have alumni that care. That is an Indiana State problem - spin it however you want in your own mind.


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> In closing you or anyone else can believe this is not an ISU problem all you want. The fact of the matter is Indiana State University had the ability to not only upgrade the facility, but build a convention center onto the facility - they released the plans and still didn't have any alumni/donor dollars to get the project done. If you can't read between the lines I will spell it out for you wanting to point the finger at whomever - alumni and people don't give a shit about Indiana State Athletics, I hate to be the one to have to deliver that message to you because I'm sure you don't want to hear it. This project would have got done at places where they have alumni that care. That is an Indiana State problem - spin it however you want in your own mind.


Totally agree and I fully believe it's only getting worse. With year-over-year declining student attendance, you're graduating less and less alumni with any sort of emotional connection to athletics.


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Your last sentence said it all...
> 
> Agree with everything you said. My frustration is laying this at the feet of just the city or anyone else. Everyone is to blame including Dan Bradley and Indiana State - they just don't get a free pass. In my opinion they had more responsibility than anyone to make this happen. Perhaps because I believe they have more avenues to the funding than the other parties who are strapped for the reasons you named.



Totally agree with this, too. I actually put a large portion of the blame on State. They've had over 30 months now to secure donations or structure funding to bridge the funding gap. I'd like to see what actually had been done on their end.

To the other end, I'm glad they're at least going after the State to get the $37.5m for renovations. They could have completely walked away and that would have been even more disastrous.


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## Bally #50

It was my understanding that the bulk of the Terre Haute Hulman/Convention center was a joint venture and the city was responsible for the lion's share of the remaining money, not a 50-50 prop by any means. If I am wrong, I will be glad to own up to it. 37.5mil was allocated to Indiana State University by the legislature and NOT Terre Haute and the finance end was to be made by business partners and a city tax of some sort. 

SSOM, I was not questioning your loyalty to Dr. B. but I am questioning _some_ of the nay-sayers that are all over him suddenly as he leaves. Some seem to never miss an opportunity to jump down his throat on this issue. The lack of movement on this IMO, is because of Terre Haute's inability to finance ANYTHING, let along a risky Convo Center. You likely were aware that there was a $7mil deal on the table at one time to finance maintenance and naming rights for HC. It fell thru but it doesn't mean that it can't be reincarnated by this individual or another when the time is right. It only takes one or two like that to make ISU look like a genius and put THEIR name on the building as well. If I bit off more than I can chew, I'll acknowledge it but I think Plan B, as you called it SSOM, is not only a good idea, it will get it done in due time. I am really sad that our fan base is so bad that you and Boda say the things you do. Jason, why continue if our fan base is so worthless? (I hope you don't). The athletes I am talking to don't feel that way and most of the alumni not in sports, say the same thing. I agree though that fund raising is pretty much a joke.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bally #47 said:


> I am really sad that our fan base is so bad that you and Boda say the things you do. Jason, why continue if our fan base is so worthless? (I hope you don't). The athletes I am talking to don't feel that way and most of the alumni not in sports, say the same thing. I agree though that fund raising is pretty much a joke.



I don't give a rip what people say -- talk is cheap. Donations and attendance speak volumes. If you don't think those are key indicators of a fan base, I'm not sure we're going to be able to agree on the topic.


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## Sycamore Proud

Jason Svoboda said:


> Totally agree with this, too. I actually put a large portion of the blame on State. They've had over 30 months now to secure donations or structure funding to bridge the funding gap. I'd like to see what actually had been done on their end.
> 
> To the other end, *I'm glad they're at least going after the State to get the $37.5m for renovations*. They could have completely walked away and that would have been even more disastrous.




I'm not sure this will happen.  Some how I can't shake the feeling that things will get worse.


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## Bally #50

Jason Svoboda said:


> I don't give a rip what people say -- talk is cheap. Donations and attendance speak volumes. If you don't think those are key indicators of a fan base, I'm not sure we're going to be able to agree on the topic.



Half full, half empty. I am not ready to throw in the towel men, and I think a lot of alums out there aren't either. You always get a fund raising burst when a new president comes in, you get a boost when MANY things are in better than average shape on campus and they are, and if by some stroke of luck football and basketball take a leap forward, then we are really in the plus. We don't need to raise half of the 37.5mil as I understand it, it is like building a new classroom. I'll buy you two a beer or three next time we cross paths at the Bally and we'll talk some more. Who knows, maybe that $45mil GIBSON Center will open before I miss my next homecoming. Soon to be Bally #50.


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## sdjessie

Maybe the 37.5 million will help get handicap restrooms for the Varsity Club members. Oh ...and it is the older fans ( say 70+)  who may be more financially able to donate larger sums ... and so I stroll over to the foundations to make another $500 donation and get a handicap parking space near the door only to find out there is no button to push to open the doors so I can wheel my rolator in .. . I added the $500 as that was the amount needed to be a guest coach for women's basketball last year ... need I ever say I was never contacted about being a guest coach after that .... constructive criticism or being a curmudgeon ... and a naysayer .... or am I just being taught a lesson ...  and for Pacers games they roll my wife and I in wheelchairs basically from the door to our seats ... just a different way of  doing things I guess ...and you do need a solid fan base ... boy can you believe Katy Texas built a 72 million high school football stadium.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

A couple other thoughts on this topic before it dies completely. This thread should serve as proof just how dire circumstances we are in. Look at the amount of people that have cared enough to even comment? Maybe everything has been said - my guess is it hasn't. You probably got a good majority of people reading this thread that no more than I do about the situation. I don't even care what side you fall on - people don't care enough to even post an opinion on an opinion forum. 

South brought up several issues facing the city and country that can't be ignored in the grand scheme of things. 

1. The city finances alone were probably enough to put this thing belly up. 

2. The county jail situation has been the most mismanaged mess you've ever seen. You got a lot of people with different agendas and only a few people with the agenda of the tax payers they serve. 

3. The VCSC has a real issue in figuring out what to do with the high schools. I personally think you combine the two and have one big high school. Get rid of the north/south and have one Terre Haute High School and then leave West Vigo alone - remodel that facility. Whatever they decide to do - this is something that is going to take resources as well. 

So I get that the above no doubt played a factor in this not getting done the right way. But it's also been typical for this Administration. Release plans of how something is going to get done and never live up to those expectations. When it comes to athletic facilities it's always a phased out deal or a plan B. We never throw plan A out to the public and end up following through with that plan.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Even with those pressing needs the city, county and THCVB had committed to a figure north of $20 million toward this project leaving somewhere in the neighborhood of a $10 to $20 million dollar deficit. I heard nothing of an athletic campaign, an attempt at naming rights, reaching out to donors etc. etc. Just that the city and county have too many other needs and shame on them. BS! Read that article today and read the quotes from individuals involved. If you don't think ISU holds blame in this then your kidding yourself.


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## Jason Svoboda

sdjessie said:


> Maybe the 37.5 million will help get handicap restrooms for the Varsity Club members. Oh ...and it is the older fans ( say 70+)  who may be more financially able to donate larger sums ... and so I stroll over to the foundations to make another $500 donation and get a handicap parking space near the door only to find out there is no button to push to open the doors so I can wheel my rolator in .. . I added the $500 as that was the amount needed to be a guest coach for women's basketball last year ... need I ever say I was never contacted about being a guest coach after that .... constructive criticism or being a curmudgeon ... and a naysayer .... or am I just being taught a lesson ...  and for Pacers games they roll my wife and I in wheelchairs basically from the door to our seats ... just a different way of  doing things I guess ...and you do need a solid fan base ... boy can you believe Katy Texas built a 72 million high school football stadium.


Totally unacceptable. Did you raise your concern to the SAF? I assume that is who you gave the money to, no?


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> 3. The VCSC has a real issue in figuring out what to do with the high schools. I personally think you combine the two and have one big high school. Get rid of the north/south and have one Terre Haute High School and then leave West Vigo alone - remodel that facility. Whatever they decide to do - this is something that is going to take resources as well.


So what exactly is the issue with the high schools? I keep seeing petitions on social media to get Tanoos out but I'm too far removed to know what is actually going on? Is it just operational costs of having two schools? 

I'd imagine if you were to merge into one mega school, you'd probably need to build a new facility somewhere in between. Is there any central land available that could serve that purpose? I imagine the far outliers would probably have a significant commute so would bus transportation eat up any saved costs? This also sounds like another issue with those property tax caps. We voted here in Fishers last year to raise our property taxes to go to the schools. Even though my second spawn is almost done, we still voted yes on the measure.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> So what exactly is the issue with the high schools? I keep seeing petitions on social media to get Tanoos out but I'm too far removed to know what is actually going on? Is it just operational costs of having two schools?
> 
> I'd imagine if you were to merge into one mega school, you'd probably need to build a new facility somewhere in between. Is there any central land available that could serve that purpose? I imagine the far outliers would probably have a significant commute so would bus transportation eat up any saved costs? This also sounds like another issue with those property tax caps. We voted here in Fishers last year to raise our property taxes to go to the schools. Even though my second spawn is almost done, we still voted yes on the measure.



Ha. Where to begin. 

Danny being removed may well take care of its self. I think regardless of petitions or investigations he is nearing retirement age. I would say he is a year or two (max) away from retirement. I think he'd like to get something settled with the high schools before he walks away and good on him for that. Most of the people wanting him out are people still upset about the FBI investigation (rightfully so). 

All 3 high schools have high maintenance costs. They are out dated, undersized among several other things. My guess is they will just renovate the two faculties. Danny and the community seem to be in agreence that one mega school is not a good idea. We could toss out many reasons why this is or isn't a good idea - I'm really not too worried about it one way or another. They defiantly need to get something done sooner rather than later as those 3 schools are in poor condition.


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## niklz62

I gotta think that having an existing structure for both schools renovated has to be cheaper than building 1 new building for both.


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## Westbadenboy

Just a couple comments from afar:

Terre Haute is notorious for incredible ...awful government.  Nothing new there.  Remember Tucker and Larrison -- most of you don't but the snow does still go away when it melts and those coeds are still giving "it" away for free.

That said, I never really understand these ideas for a "convention center" for towns the size of Terre Haute -- what "conventions" are coming to Terre Haute ? ? ?  In my opinion, that was simply an attempt to get the city/county to chip in on the project.

Most importantly, while I appreciate what Bradley has done and Clink is doing, I'm still baffled by the lack of attempts to get money from alumni and supporters.  My God, we are months into this athletic fundraiser "Elevate" -- I'm a Varsity club member -- and still not one ....not one communication from the athletic dept about a contribution !  And we are just a over a week away from football opening night and nothing about rejoining the Varsity Club !
Are you kidding me ? ? ?

Now I know my lousy few bucks were not going to fund the HC project.  But is the above an example of the effort ISU has made ?

And what about naming rights ..... how can stadiums and arenas across the nation be getting built with all kinds of businesses names attached to them and ISU can't find one for this ? ? ?

And what about the Hulmans -- after all these years they still get their name attached, spend millions on the Speedway every year, and can't chip in a few million for something with great historic significance for their family and where they first made their fortune.

In my opinion ISU should have recognized the burden was going to fall on them and there should be construction crews at HC right now.


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## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> Most importantly, while I appreciate what Bradley has done and Clink is doing, I'm still baffled by the lack of attempts to get money from alumni and supporters.  My God, we are months into this athletic fundraiser "Elevate" -- I'm a Varsity club member -- and still not one ....not one communication from the athletic dept about a contribution !  And we are just a over a week away from football opening night and nothing about rejoining the Varsity Club !
> 
> Are you kidding me ? ? ?
> 
> Now I know my lousy few bucks were not going to fund the HC project.  But is the above an example of the effort ISU has made ?


As I stated in the other thread on this, communications were sent via email. If you didn't receive it, its on YOU to contact the Alumni office and make sure they have a good working email address on file. It was sent out both in the general ISU newsletter as well as the SAF newsletter. I received them both.

Further, I announced Elevate here before it went public. It said you read the thread so you knew about it. You could have clicked on the GoSycamores site and made a contribution if you were really interested in doing so. 

Original Elevate thread: http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?38300


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## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> In my opinion ISU should have recognized the burden was going to fall on them and there should be construction crews at HC right now.


I'd say that is what they're doing at this point. The original project was announced over 30 months ago. 

The timing of ISU's press release in relation to the other TribStar piece on city finances not getting better isn't coincidence. Odds are there were some State legislature timelines on that money so they're simply reversing course so they can still get something done.


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## BankShot

Updated article in today's (Wed) Trib-Star, reflecting the political problems surrounding the City, Council and CVB:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_072a84bb-bdec-5a2b-9442-b6c226f8bdaf.html

Area politicians ALL trying to cover their asses this morning...

I'll say this, Pres. Bradley was NEVER happy with this structure. Frankly, the inability of the "localz" to put aside their "pay to play" dreams associated with the contracting (i.e. Judy Anderson - catering concessions) infuriated Pres. Bradley, who's a "let's get this shit done" type-of guy. The University was NOT the cause for this, regardless of what some MIGHT believe. Now the big question...will the State of Indiana hold steady w/ the $37.5m, which NO LONGER holds the economic development "envy" that it once had?

We'll now see how much state-wide CLOUT the local "legislative delegation" truly has, won't we? Bottom line - is the State of Indiana in the business of constructing basketball palaces?


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## sdjessie

Jason Svoboda said:


> Totally unacceptable. Did you raise your concern to the SAF? I assume that is who you gave the money to, no?



What concern .... too late to do anything but for the first time in 30+ years I will not be getting WBB tickets ... If I give you money and you say you will be giving me something I would think that the next move is yours to complete the details ... even if it just a few dollars I wonder how many have given to WBB faithfully for a number of years ,,, first joined when they played in the Arena and the few additional dollars gave you seats on risers as we were a booster club ... I think Andi Myers was the coach then. Some have brought up fan loyalty but loyalty is a 2 way street.


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## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Even with those pressing needs the city, county and THCVB had committed to a figure north of $20 million toward this project leaving somewhere in the neighborhood of a $10 to $20 million dollar deficit. I heard nothing of an athletic campaign, an attempt at naming rights, reaching out to donors etc. etc. Just that the city and county have too many other needs and shame on them. BS! Read that article today and read the quotes from individuals involved. If you don't think ISU holds blame in this then your kidding yourself.



The article in the TRIB yesterday, stated that it was between the city, the county, and the THCVB to raise the additional money. If that is correct, then ISU chose not to assist on their own, likely because it was apparent from the get-go that their $20mil was weak at best and that it was never going to fly. I had heard this exact thought for some time and the way I looked at after yesterday's "collapse" -- was that it FINALLY time to get it done on their own. I have no guarantees I am right, please understand, I don't have the clout I did at one time, but that's my gut feeling. We'll see. Note: although I thru in Gibson's name as a silly gesture in the naming rights for HC, he's done more than enough for ISU and I wasn't suggesting it or inferring he was the solution. 

....and your three comments above are right on point.


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## Jason Svoboda

sdjessie said:


> What concern .... too late to do anything but for the first time in 30+ years I will not be getting WBB tickets ... If I give you money and you say you will be giving me something I would think that the next move is yours to complete the details ... even if it just a few dollars I wonder how many have given to WBB faithfully for a number of years ,,, first joined when they played in the Arena and the few additional dollars gave you seats on risers as we were a booster club ... I think Andi Myers was the coach then. Some have brought up fan loyalty but loyalty is a 2 way street.



About not getting what you paid for. 

It's totally inexcusable and I don't want to make excuses for whichever organization took your cash, but the use of student workers combined with the turnover in the Foundation could have led to it slipping through the cracks. When I was serving as alumnus adviser for my fraternity, I had quite a few messages disappear Maxwell Smart style when I left them with student workers. That said, I hope someone from the school browses this thread, sees your posts and remedies the situation now. I know that won't give you the warm and fuzzies way after the fact, but I consider you a diehard Sycamore so I hope they get it taken care of.


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## Jason Svoboda

BankShot said:


> We'll now see how much state-wide CLOUT the local "legislative delegation" truly has, won't we? Bottom line - is the State of Indiana in the business of constructing basketball palaces?


But that is a true multi-use facility. It holds pretty much every concert or large event held in Terre Haute, all the high school and State's graduations and other events. I even went to a career fair there back in the day when I was still on campus. Not sure I'd call it just a basketball palace.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

BankShot said:


> Updated article in today's (Wed) Trib-Star, reflecting the political problems surrounding the City, Council and CVB:
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_072a84bb-bdec-5a2b-9442-b6c226f8bdaf.html
> 
> Area politicians ALL trying to cover their asses this morning...
> 
> I'll say this, Pres. Bradley was NEVER happy with this structure. Frankly, the inability of the "localz" to put aside their "pay to play" dreams associated with the contracting (i.e. Judy Anderson - catering concessions) infuriated Pres. Bradley, who's a "let's get this shit done" type-of guy. The University was NOT the cause for this, regardless of what some MIGHT believe. Now the big question...will the State of Indiana hold steady w/ the $37.5m, which NO LONGER holds the economic development "envy" that it once had?
> 
> We'll now see how much state-wide CLOUT the local "legislative delegation" truly has, won't we? Bottom line - is the State of Indiana in the business of constructing basketball palaces?



Nothing you said is wrong - in fact a very good post! But what you've failed to do is read this thread carefully - as usual you read what you want to read and you don't pay attention to anything else. 

This is NOT an ISU problem alone - but ISU is in fact part of the problem in not getting this done. That is all that has been said.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #47 said:


> The article in the TRIB yesterday, stated that it was between the city, the county, and the THCVB to raise the additional money. If that is correct, then ISU chose not to assist on their own, likely because it was apparent from the get-go that their $20mil was weak at best and that it was never going to fly. I had heard this exact thought for some time and the way I looked at after yesterday's "collapse" -- was that it FINALLY time to get it done on their own. I have no guarantees I am right, please understand, I don't have the clout I did at one time, but that's my gut feeling. We'll see. Note: although I thru in Gibson's name as a silly gesture in the naming rights for HC, he's done more than enough for ISU and I wasn't suggesting it or inferring he was the solution.
> 
> ....and your three comments above are right on point.



Do I think that ISU was backed into a corner by the other players? Absolutely. Did the financial needs of those other players have anything to do with ISU going at this alone? Absolutely. I have no denied any of those points. The fact of the matter is Dan Bradley laid this at the feet of the city, county and THCVB. What I (and many others) have been saying for some time now is that Indiana State needs to take a good hard look at themselves. They are the ones who can ask for corporate gifts, alumni gifts and other creative ways to get this project done. They failed to do that and they should take accountability for that.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> But that is a true multi-use facility. It holds pretty much every concert or large event held in Terre Haute, all the high school and State's graduations and other events. I even went to a career fair there back in the day when I was still on campus. Not sure I'd call it just a basketball palace.



That case can be made no doubt. The point is the funding was originally granted with the intent of it having a convention center - so it makes you wonder if the state hasn't already given them some sort of assurance that they will still honor the dollars.


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## Fiji Bill 72

I applaud the president for what he did if it means we can a least get the arena renovated. One can't look a gift horse in the mouth. Why give up the $37.5 million if the city and county don't want to do their share. I remember when I was a student then mayor, Leland Larrison I think was his name, had the famous quote about snow removal on campus. It went something like why should the citizens of Terre Haute pay to have snow removed when students not from the town drove on the streets. That told me then that the city did not appreciate what the university has done for it.


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## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Do I think that ISU was backed into a corner by the other players? Absolutely. Did the financial needs of those other players have anything to do with ISU going at this alone? Absolutely. I have no denied any of those points. The fact of the matter is Dan Bradley laid this at the feet of the city, county and THCVB. What I (and many others) have been saying for some time now is that Indiana State needs to take a good hard look at themselves. They are the ones who can ask for corporate gifts, alumni gifts and other creative ways to get this project done. They failed to do that and they should take accountability for that.



Do you think that some of the big hitters in the original $20mil won't jump in with the NEW 37.5mil? I do and it sounds like a no-brainer to me. Many of you have trashed the Hulman Center bunch for decades. And now all of a sudden, you think they were the ones to run the facility and do it right? REALLY?. This brings it back to ISU in one form or another. I agree with you, SSOM, that kicking a dead dog is getting old. I think I have said enough, and my guess is that there are people that are happy about what went down yesterday. As I often say, time will tell.


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## Chief_Quabachi

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Disgraceful way to go out Dan... Not good. Blame everyone else for not getting the job done and say good riddance in the process. Nicely played.



What a chicken-shit statement!!


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## treeman

People that are close to the situation or that live in Terre Haute, can you please tell me if there is something bigger going that I'm not aware of with the university or city?

Only a few years ago it seemed that the university and city had one of the best 5-year spans in school history. Sports were consistently winning across the board, attendance was up, enrollment were record numbers, new developments in both the university and city were popping up everywhere. It just seemed that ISU and Terre Haute had turned the corner and were both on the up-and-up. 

Now almost every narrative I read about ISU and Terre Haute is negative and they seem to be bigger issues than meets the eye. Were we just blinded by Jake Odum and Shakir Bell and couldn't see the underlying issues? Or are these issues just now surfacing and all the momentum we had has been lost? These are serious questions that i'm really curious about. And i know ISU has always had bad attendance and alumni involvement, but it appeared that we have lost everything that was gained during the 2010-2015 years. And the "tone" on this board has reached an all-time low since i've been on here.


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## Southgrad07

Bally #47 said:


> Do you think that some of the big hitters in the original $20mil won't jump in with the NEW 37.5mil? I do and it sounds like a no-brainer to me. Many of you have trashed the Hulman Center bunch for decades. And now all of a sudden, you think they were the ones to run the facility and do it right? REALLY?. This brings it back to ISU in one form or another. I agree with you, SSOM, that kicking a dead dog is getting old. I think I have said enough, and my guess is that there are people that are happy about what went down yesterday. As I often say, time will tell.



I don't think I'd be "happy" because I think the city could of used a convention center too...But IF and only if they actually still get the 37.5 mil from the state and do a real fundraiser to get it north of 43-45 mil will I be "satisfied"..They better be damn confident that they can secure all 37.5 mil from the state going forward....Because if  they don't and it was scrapped because ISU wouldn't budge off of the city/county coming up with the remaining 37.5 mil in full?... Then that is disgraceful and shame on ISU. 

The county/city had pledged 20 mil and im told would of gotten it to 25 or 26 to get it done....That means ISU needed some way to come up with 12 million through some series of revenues...I think SSOM and others think that ISU did not do enough to explore ways to close that gap. And like you i've said my peace on this topic. The city put us in a tough spot but ISU is not some white knight as some portray...If we end up with a 45mil or so funded HC in 2-3 yrs much will be forgotten....IF it totally falls through nobody will come out smelling like a rose


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Chief_Quabachi said:


> What a chicken-shit statement!!



Maybe? But think what you want. 

The day ISU, Terre Haute and Vigo County get on the same page it will be better for everyone involved. Until then I will continue to call it the way I see it. Sorry you disagreed.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #47 said:


> Do you think that some of the big hitters in the original $20mil won't jump in with the NEW 37.5mil? I do and it sounds like a no-brainer to me. Many of you have trashed the Hulman Center bunch for decades. And now all of a sudden, you think they were the ones to run the facility and do it right? REALLY?. This brings it back to ISU in one form or another. I agree with you, SSOM, that kicking a dead dog is getting old. I think I have said enough, and my guess is that there are people that are happy about what went down yesterday. As I often say, time will tell.



The way I see it you got three groups of people. 

One group is fine with the renovation so long as no local tax hike helps pay for it. 

Another group is just happy to see something done and given the state of the local economy something is better than nothing. 

The last group (where I sit) that views it as another failed attempt to do something the right way the first time. This is probably the smallest group of three but this group isn't surprised to see it fall short of what was originally discussed.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> I don't think I'd be "happy" because I think the city could of used a convention center too...But IF and only if they actually still get the 37.5 mil from the state and do a real fundraiser to get it north of 43-45 mil will I be "satisfied"..They better be damn confident that they can secure all 37.5 mil from the state going forward....Because if  they don't and it was scrapped because ISU wouldn't budge off of the city/county coming up with the remaining 37.5 mil in full?... Then that is disgraceful and shame on ISU.
> 
> The county/city had pledged 20 mil and im told would of gotten it to 25 or 26 to get it done....That means ISU needed some way to come up with 12 million through some series of revenues...I think SSOM and others think that ISU did not do enough to explore ways to close that gap. And like you i've said my peace on this topic. The city put us in a tough spot but ISU is not some white knight as some portray...If we end up with a 45mil or so funded HC in 2-3 yrs much will be forgotten....IF it totally falls through nobody will come out smelling like a rose



Agree on all counts.


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## Bally #50

Southgrad07 said:


> I don't think I'd be "happy" because I think the city could of used a convention center too...But IF and only if they actually still get the 37.5 mil from the state and do a real fundraiser to get it north of 43-45 mil will I be "satisfied"..They better be damn confident that they can secure all 37.5 mil from the state going forward....Because if  they don't and it was scrapped because ISU wouldn't budge off of the city/county coming up with the remaining 37.5 mil in full?... Then that is disgraceful and shame on ISU.
> 
> The county/city had pledged 20 mil and im told would of gotten it to 25 or 26 to get it done....That means ISU needed some way to come up with 12 million through some series of revenues...I think SSOM and others think that ISU did not do enough to explore ways to close that gap. And like you i've said my peace on this topic. The city put us in a tough spot but ISU is not some white knight as some portray...If we end up with a 45mil or so funded HC in 2-3 yrs much will be forgotten....IF it totally falls through nobody will come out smelling like a rose



I agree 100% gentlemen. I am not from Terre Haute and you guys are, but the Convo proposal was a huge gamble. If they don't get the 37.5mil, they'll look bad for sure, but my guess is that they will and know they will. They also knew that TH side of the deal was shaky at best. As much as I was impressed with the plans, 40-45mil would do a super job fixing up HC, make it smaller but with more amenities, and most of all, regain control of the building. (Hopefully).  IU spent 35, University of Dayton spent 72, on much bigger arenas. I think it was planned this way all along. Like I said, time will tell. I'll leave it at that.


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## Hooper

Bally #47 said:


> I agree 100% gentlemen. I am not from Terre Haute and you guys are, but the Convo proposal was a huge gamble. If they don't get the 37.5mil, they'll look bad for sure, but my guess is that they will and know they will. They also knew that TH side of the deal was shaky at best. As much as I was impressed with the plans, 40-45mil would do a super job fixing up HC, make it smaller but with more amenities, and most of all, regain control of the building. (Hopefully).  IU spent 35, University of Dayton spent 72, on much bigger arenas. I think it was planned this way all along. Like I said, time will tell. I'll leave it at that.



And IU renovated Assembly Hall using only two donors.  Two.  Granted, Cindy and Mark are uber-wealthy but it just shows the chasm that lies between a Big Ten FBS school's donor base and a mid-major FCS school's donor base.


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## Bally #50

Hooper said:


> And IU renovated Assembly Hall using only two donors.  Two.  Granted, Cindy and Mark are uber-wealthy but it just shows the chasm that lies between a Big Ten FBS school's donor base and a mid-major FCS school's donor base.



For sure, Hoop. Guys, we often forget that we are "currently" a low mid-major, with sagging attendance in our two major sports, a fickle-student body when it comes to sports, and STILL a lot of first-generation college alumni. Our total ISU endowment is likely what Duke University or Stanford earns a DAY from theirs. We do have wealthy alumni (more than some of you may know) and we are just going to have to figure out how to bring them on-board. We have done a terrible job of doing that so far.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bally #47 said:


> For sure, Hoop. Guys, we often forget that we are "currently" a low mid-major, with sagging attendance in our two major sports, a fickle-student body when it comes to sports, and STILL a lot of first-generation college alumni. Our total ISU endowment is likely what Duke University of Stanford earns a DAY from theirs. We do have wealthy alumni (more than some of you may know) and we are just going to have to figure out how to bring them on-board. We have done a terrible job of doing that so far.


Are any of those wealthy alumni the same ones that told you we have a good fan base?


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## Bally #50

Jason Svoboda said:


> Are any of those wealthy alumni the same ones that told you we have a good fan base?



ABSOLUTELY NOT. Not the very wealthy ones. Boda, I JUST SAID we have a bad fan base. I have no idea if it can be turned around but good football and basketball will help, and so will a new and improved building. If done right, a new HC could add 35-50%, a good team could double it. Combine those and then we don't look so bad. Same with football actually. You guys said 40-45 mill will do it. I just think it can be *done*. Somehow your optimism has gone down that same toilet as the thread on this article. Sorry to see it. I have hardly been all punch and cookie Pollyannish here. I've said the fund raising sucks, the fan base sucks, TH's finances suck, HC is not being run correctly, BUT I think they can make this work and turn around some of this bad crap. You don't so be it. You'll be back when they start working on it, I bet.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bally #47 said:


> ABSOLUTELY NOT. Not the very wealthy ones. Boda, I JUST SAID we have a bad fan base. I have no idea if it can be turned around but good football and basketball will help, and so will a new and improved building. If done right, a new HC could add 35-50%, a good team could double it. Combine those and then we don't look so bad. Same with football actually. You guys said 40-45 mill will do it. I just think it can be *done*. Somehow your optimism has gone down that same toilet as the thread on this article. Sorry to see it. I have hardly been all punch and cookie Pollyannish here. I've said the fund raising sucks, the fan base sucks, TH's finances suck, HC is not being run correctly, BUT I think they can make this work and turn around some of this bad crap. You don't so be it. You'll be back when they start working on it, I bet.


I hear that 60% of the time it works every time. Just tossing out a random percentage myself... c'mon Bob, you're smarter than this. Oh, and where the hell did I go to begin with?

Edit: BTW, since we're tossing out numbers... a discussion on the Hulman Center has received more replies than the football forum in the month of August once you remove the automated posts. This isn't about optimism... this is about realism and it's about time some of you took a haaaaaaard look at that. That's with an energized new staff (which I personally like very much after following them) and roster to boot.


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## niklz62

Jason Svoboda said:


> I hear that 60% of the time it works every time. Just tossing out a random percentage myself... c'mon Bob, you're smarter than this. Oh, and where the hell did I go to begin with?
> 
> *Edit: BTW, since we're tossing out numbers... a discussion on the Hulman Center has received more replies than the football forum in the month of August once you remove the automated posts. This isn't about optimism... this is about realism and it's about time some of you took a haaaaaaard look at that. That's with an energized new staff (which I personally like very much after following them) and roster to boot.*



Honestly aside from reading about practices, I dont know what to talk about.  I cant wait to see us but any predictions about us or any team we play are useless aside from they putting us last in the preseason poll.  I think at some point a few other teams are going to have to perform better to be ranked in front of us.


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## sdjessie

Optimism or Pessimism .... I founded the Ryves Community Optimist Club ... it is in an area where 95% of the neighborhood children live in homes under the poverty level. When the club was founded there was a great need for a better sound system. When they had Regional Silver Gloves matches boxers and fans came to Terre Haute from a five state area. Of course there were many other needs in the area but the new club put obtaining the sound system as a priority one need. We felt we needed at least $10,000 to accomplish our goal.  We held our first fund raiser as FAN DAY at the football stadium selling beans and trying to get sponsors ... we worked hard but sold few beans ... we did get a few sponsorships and made a little over $1,000 profit. We could have used the money for other things but we decided to bank it in a separate fund for the sound system and we said we would not settle for anything less than a state of the art sound system ... then we had a fund raise at Baesler's ... and raised  maybe a thousand more ... we could have purchased a little better sound system but we decided we wanted the best. Then we had a large donation from Mr. Tony Ashe ... it is now 5 years later ... a top quality sound system was built and there is still money in the account for maintenance of it. We had a goal without a strict deadline ... We have had many other fund raisers and accomplished many other things. I have lost some steam and Paul Conches and Teresa Ortega did a great job as the last event was at the Sycamore Banquet Center ... our last event at the football game was a kid's Carnival where we sold nothing and all money came through sponsorship. The event at the Sycamore Banquet Center was for school supplies ... another event raised money to stockpile socks and underwear at Franklin School ...but we never wanted to settle for a second best. SO begs the question ... do we want a state of the art facility? Do we want a Convention Center? If the answer is yes then we perhaps should not settle for stop gap solutions .... if all get on that same page then we go about raising the money ... and maybe it will take 5 or more years ... but it can't be done unless it is a priority ... and if it not a priority it will never be done ... and that is my final two cents


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## Bally #50

Jason Svoboda said:


> I hear that 60% of the time it works every time. Just tossing out a random percentage myself... c'mon Bob, you're smarter than this. Oh, and where the hell did I go to begin with?
> 
> Edit: BTW, since we're tossing out numbers... a discussion on the Hulman Center has received more replies than the football forum in the month of August once you remove the automated posts. This isn't about optimism... this is about realism and it's about time some of you took a haaaaaaard look at that. That's with an energized new staff (which I personally like very much after following them) and roster to boot.



Smarter than WHAT? I think they can do it, you guys don't. Don't tell me that I am not smart enough to know it won't work. Basically we agree on everything but who's responsible for the mess of TH, the THCVB and the county and I say we'll take the money and run with it. I already said, I'd eat crow if I am wrong but we won't know for awhile, so after you guys simmer down, we'll all sing Kum Bah Yah. For God's sake, all this bullshit has allowed to pretty well get the new system down pat. I felt a new football stadium would be built too (in 10 years or so). I am not stupid, I'm just more confident in ISU than you guys are.


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## Southgrad07

One aspect of this that hasn't been talked about yet.. I know with the convention center there was going to a minimum seating total that had to be maintained in order to justify the project (around 9000 I heard)... I wonder if the state does approve ISU's request if they would attach similar strings...I would hope not and we could make it a realistic 7500 or so space with more room for suites and other frills.


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## Bally #50

Southgrad07 said:


> One aspect of this that hasn't been talked about yet.. I know with the convention center there was going to a minimum seating total that had to be maintained in order to justify the project (around 9000 I heard)... I wonder if the state does approve ISU's request if they would attach similar strings...I would hope not and we could make it a realistic 7500 or so space with more room for suites and other frills.



They should be able to design this for INDIANA STATE, not the city and you are correct, it might not have been as easy to modify it too much. Why don't you ask Muncie how their convo center is doing while you're at it? They act in interviews like it is all well and good but in reality, the city, like Terredice, is in financial difficulties.


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## Jason Svoboda

*Big Hulman Center Plans Scaled Back*
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/36200304/big-hulman-center-plans-scaled-back

*Indiana State University hopes to use state funds for arena*
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article168881872.html


*ISU Shuts City, County And CVB Out Of Hulman Center Project*
http://wibqam.com/news/articles/201...-county-and-cvb-out-of-hulman-center-project/


*CIB Responds To Community Being Abandonded By ISU*
http://wibqam.com/news/articles/2017/aug/23/cib-responds-to-community-being-abandonded-by-isu/


*Effort still on to build convention center in Terre Haute*
http://www.tribstar.com/news/effort...cle_14ce7818-8848-11e7-beee-bfec95f1286a.html


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## Jason Svoboda

Okay, so what doesn't jive in all of this? Someone is obviously not telling the truth here.

_"We do not want to risk losing this $37.5 million state investment in our community, which is the second largest capital appropriation the university has ever received," Bradley said. "I think there was consensus that the time had come, we really had to take action for fear of someone else in Indianapolis taking action to take the money away from us."

_​_Renovation of the arena is expected to cost $50 million, Bradley said. Remaining funds would come through donations, reserves and debt._​
And then...

_”We did what ISU wanted and what the state of Indiana wanted,” Marvel said Tuesday. “There wasn’t fiscal constraints on our part.”

_​_The project still had about an $11 million to $12 million funding gap that remained unresolved._​
So the same funding gap of $11-$12 million is present and Bradley says remaining funds would come through donations, reserves and debt. So why wasn't this on the table for the original scope of work?


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## Bally #50

Jason Svoboda said:


> Okay, so what doesn't jive in all of this? Someone is obviously not telling the truth here.
> 
> _"We do not want to risk losing this $37.5 million state investment in our community, which is the second largest capital appropriation the university has ever received," Bradley said. "I think there was consensus that the time had come, we really had to take action for fear of someone else in Indianapolis taking action to take the money away from us."
> 
> _​_Renovation of the arena is expected to cost $50 million, Bradley said. Remaining funds would come through donations, reserves and debt._​
> And then...
> 
> _”We did what ISU wanted and what the state of Indiana wanted,” Marvel said Tuesday. “There wasn’t fiscal constraints on our part.”
> 
> _​_The project still had about an $11 million to $12 million funding gap that remained unresolved._​
> So the same funding gap of $11-$12 million is present and Bradley says remaining funds would come through donations, reserves and debt. So why wasn't this on the table for the original scope of work?



Thanks for the info. Good reading. The only one pissing and moaning here, is the head of the CIB who basically didn't get his job done, period. The rest of it confirms what I have been saying.


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## Jason Svoboda

Bally #47 said:


> Thanks for the info. Good reading. The only one pissing and moaning here, is the head of the CIB who basically didn't get his job done, period. The rest of it confirms what I have been saying.


To be fair, he may have a case. I've been going back and forth with Todd Golden and he responded with this:


That assumes the $37 million would have been approved from the state with ISU going it alone from jump. Not sure it would have been.— Todd Aaron Golden (@ToddAaronGolden) August 24, 2017



That makes it feel a bit like State used the CIB and others to get the funding approved because they may have felt they wouldn't have received legislative approval going in solo. The bottom line at this point is someone acted disingenuous OR someone wanted more control and the others weren't willing to concede it. I think there is more to this story than all parties are sharing and I'm interested to see more as it leaks out.

The biggest negative in this whole situation is that it further causes a divide between the University and Terre Haute.


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## southernindianaballer

This is all good.  Several months ago I posted some stuff about convention center locations...  The TH Convention Center should be on the Riverfront with easy access for big rigs, etc. (I never actually said that because I wanted some people to read between the lines.)  The Hulman Center should get renovated as an ISU only facility so they have full control over athletic usage on their campus. TH found they can actually come up with some funds... move the convention center to the riverfront as part of the riverscape project....  build a large enough facility with removable astro turf that seats 20k for the football stadium.  The Convention Center/Football stadium on the riverfront.  Easy access for large equipment...  farm shows, tractor pulls, car shows, etc.  Do it for 80 million.  ISU then moves to FBS...  oh yea baby...  LOL  that part is sarcasm.  Really - the convention center with removable astro turf is possible.  A more versatile facility than Hulman could be.
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned because I didn't read many earlier posts.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #47 said:


> The rest of it confirms what I have been saying.



Don't hurt yourself...


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## niklz62

southernindianaballer said:


> This is all good.  Several months ago I posted some stuff about convention center locations...  The TH Convention Center should be on the Riverfront with easy access for big rigs, etc. (I never actually said that because I wanted some people to read between the lines.)  The Hulman Center should get renovated as an ISU only facility so they have full control over athletic usage on their campus. TH found they can actually come up with some funds... move the convention center to the riverfront as part of the riverscape project....  build a large enough facility with removable astro turf that seats 20k for the football stadium.  The Convention Center/Football stadium on the riverfront.  Easy access for large equipment...  farm shows, tractor pulls, car shows, etc.  Do it for 80 million.  ISU then moves to FBS...  oh yea baby...  LOL  that part is sarcasm.  Really - the convention center with removable astro turf is possible.  A more versatile facility than Hulman could be.
> Forgive me if this has already been mentioned because I didn't read many earlier posts.



you're hired


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## BankShot

*Today's (Thursday) Trib-Star: "The Idea Lives On?" :lol:*

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_edfa601b-7e47-5593-a30c-671acfce9b0e.html


What's so sad about all this whole thing is the INABILITY of TH "leaders" to realize WHY this thing collapsed.  It should be a lesson to voters in the NEXT election that if they want TH to grow, you need representatives that have sound DECISION MAKING skills. A 20-yr. ex-school bus driver/caterer that now sits as *Pres. of the Vigo County Commissioners* is a vivid example of this problem. 

Pres. Bradley cited "fiscal constraints" by the local government as reason for opting out of the Convention Center Plan. If an $11-12m difference in funding, FBI investigation of the City of TH re: illegal wastewater "pay to play" contract dynamics and the IN State Govt. Audit by the SBO which threatens the City because of it's $8m budget deficit & wrongful shifting of funds to help hide the TRUTH is not reasonable PROOF of "fiscal constraints, " what is?

Now add the burden(s) of financing new public school construction, a new county jail and new TH Police Dept...where's the $$$ going to come from?

It took COURAGE for Pres. Bradley to make this decision, no doubt in recognition of the ADMINISTRATIVE problems inherent between the University, City of Terre Haute and Vigo County govt. to OVERSEE the financing, construction and management of Hulman Center. He's no doubt aware of the problems that existed during CLIFF LAMBERT'S 30 yr. _TH/University_ "experiment," and that this current "Devil's Triangle" was never going to succeed, at least in the BEST INTEREST of Indiana State.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BankShot said:


> It took COURAGE for Pres. Bradley to make this decision, no doubt in recognition of the ADMINISTRATIVE problems inherent between the University, City of Terre Haute and Vigo County govt. to OVERSEE the financing, construction and management of Hulman Center. He's no doubt aware of the problems that existed during CLIFF LAMBERT'S 30 yr. _TH/University_ "experiment," and that this current "Devil's Triangle" was never going to succeed, at least in the BEST INTEREST of Indiana State.



Provided we're still getting the $37.5m from the state. I'd have to think Bradley secured some assurances that if he went this route they wouldn't pull the funding altogether. 

I believe the State Legislature wrapped up in April and start back up in October sometime... does anyone know if that's accurate? So we'll likely not get any sort of finality to this until that happens. Does that also seem accurate?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

You all talk about winning as the solution to bring in fans and thus earn money. You fail to realize that winning alone will never get the job done at Indiana State. Do you realize how hard it is to win when the city, county, THCVB and University can't get on the same page?? 

If I'm recruiting a kid that's a fringe high major prospect - probably better fits the mid major mold. As a coach I'm using everything I can to lure that kid to my program. You better believe I'm going to put to this dysfunction and our inability to build an appropriate facility in attempt to land that recruit. If they even get a facilitiy built it will fall short of what was originally proposed. 

This came down to control and Bradley wanted Indiana State to have control. That is all fine and good - but my guess is the Hulman family never got a call about naming rights and the deficit they were faced with. If the Hulman family wasn't interested and I'm certain they would have given us rights to seek alumni, donor, naming right dollars elsewhere. I can't imagine a situation in which a convention center doesn't benefit Hulman & Co./Clabber Girl. We didn't go down that road - Indiana State was in a position to initiate these asks and have these conversations internally. The gap (if truly just $10ish million) wasn't that large. They could have found a way to come up with that - they choose not to. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you all to grasp. 

For Bradley to initially point toward the cities/county financial situation was a cop out. They attempted to call him on that - not sure if they were able to or not given the current situation they are both faced with. 

I can't spell it out more clearly for you all.


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## Hooper

Jason Svoboda said:


> Provided we're still getting the $37.5m from the state. I'd have to think Bradley secured some assurances that if he went this route they wouldn't pull the funding altogether.
> 
> I believe the State Legislature wrapped up in April and start back up in October sometime... does anyone know if that's accurate? So we'll likely not get any sort of finality to this until that happens. Does that also seem accurate?



No more General Assembly sessions this year.  The actual session is short in 2018 as it's a non-budget year so they'll go from Jan-March in 2018.  As we speak of course there are interim study committees meeting on all kinds of things and no doubt some informal caucusing.


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## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You all talk about winning as the solution to bring in fans and thus earn money. You fail to realize that winning alone will never get the job done at Indiana State. Do you realize how hard it is to win when the city, county, THCVB and University can't get on the same page??
> 
> If I'm recruiting a kid that's a fringe high major prospect - probably better fits the mid major mold. As a coach I'm using everything I can to lure that kid to my program. You better believe I'm going to put to this dysfunction and our inability to build an appropriate facility in attempt to land that recruit. If they even get a facilitiy built it will fall short of what was originally proposed.
> 
> This came down to control and Bradley wanted Indiana State to have control. That is all fine and good - but my guess is the Hulman family never got a call about naming rights and the deficit they were faced with. If the Hulman family wasn't interested and I'm certain they would have given us rights to seek alumni, donor, naming right dollars elsewhere. I can't imagine a situation in which a convention center doesn't benefit Hulman & Co./Clabber Girl. We didn't go down that road - Indiana State was in a position to initiate these asks and have these conversations internally. The gap (if truly just $10ish million) wasn't that large. They could have found a way to come up with that - they choose not to. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you all to grasp.
> 
> For Bradley to initially point toward the cities/county financial situation was a cop out. They attempted to call him on that - not sure if they were able to or not given the current situation they are both faced with.
> 
> I can't spell it out more clearly for you all.



Did you ever think that some of us aren't buying it? This forum is starting to sound like the Sycamore Hoop Forum. And by the way, don't worry about me hurting myself. Take a chill pill. I'll be just fine.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You all talk about winning as the solution to bring in fans and thus earn money. You fail to realize that winning alone will never get the job done at Indiana State. Do you realize how hard it is to win when the city, county, THCVB and University can't get on the same page??
> 
> If I'm recruiting a kid that's a fringe high major prospect - probably better fits the mid major mold. As a coach I'm using everything I can to lure that kid to my program. You better believe I'm going to put to this dysfunction and our inability to build an appropriate facility in attempt to land that recruit. If they even get a facilitiy built it will fall short of what was originally proposed.
> 
> This came down to control and Bradley wanted Indiana State to have control. That is all fine and good - but my guess is the Hulman family never got a call about naming rights and the deficit they were faced with. If the Hulman family wasn't interested and I'm certain they would have given us rights to seek alumni, donor, naming right dollars elsewhere. I can't imagine a situation in which a convention center doesn't benefit Hulman & Co./Clabber Girl. We didn't go down that road - Indiana State was in a position to initiate these asks and have these conversations internally. The gap (if truly just $10ish million) wasn't that large. They could have found a way to come up with that - they choose not to. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you all to grasp.
> 
> For Bradley to initially point toward the cities/county financial situation was a cop out. They attempted to call him on that - not sure if they were able to or not given the current situation they are both faced with.
> 
> I can't spell it out more clearly for you all.



The State of Indiana is in control and they said that they wanted Indiana State in control of the construction. The one who controls  the purse strings is always in control. I gather that the State told Dr. Bradley it is time to get a moving on this or we will pull the 37.5M so what was Dr. Bradley supposed to do? Beg for more time or proceed with what he sees as the essential part of the project. TH and Vigo County are their own worse enemies here somebody wants to get their fingers in the pie and create and big conflict of interest at the least. I have always thought that Dr. Bradley was only interested in the Hulman Center part of the project and the Convention Center was for the community. There is no way TH will be able to build a Convention Center for 35 to 40M and to have a multi purpose facility attached. TH needs to get their head out of the sand and get in the 21st century and think outside of the box for financing all of their projects they need done. The police station and jail and get done as private or public/private project. The schools have their hands tied by state law, but they need to build additions on to current buildings and or renovate current buildings. I look forward to seeing they new plans and the sooner the better.


----------



## Bally #50

SycamoreFan317 said:


> The State of Indiana is in control and they said that they wanted Indiana State in control of the construction. The one who controls  the purse strings is always in control. I gather that the State told Dr. Bradley it is time to get a moving on this or we will pull the 37.5M so what was Dr. Bradley supposed to do? Beg for more time or proceed with what he sees as the essential part of the project. TH and Vigo County are their own worse enemies here somebody wants to get their fingers in the pie and create and big conflict of interest at the least. I have always thought that Dr. Bradley was only interested in the Hulman Center part of the project and the Convention Center was for the community. There is no way TH will be able to build a Convention Center for 35 to 40M and to have a multi purpose facility attached. TH needs to get their head out of the sand and get in the 21st century and think outside of the box for financing all of their projects they need done. The police station and jail and get done as private or public/private project. The schools have their hands tied by state law, but they need to build additions on to current buildings and or renovate current buildings. I look forward to seeing they new plans and the sooner the better.



AMEN.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

southernindianaballer said:


> This is all good.  Several months ago I posted some stuff about convention center locations...  The TH Convention Center should be on the Riverfront with easy access for big rigs, etc. (I never actually said that because I wanted some people to read between the lines.)  The Hulman Center should get renovated as an ISU only facility so they have full control over athletic usage on their campus. TH found they can actually come up with some funds... move the convention center to the riverfront as part of the riverscape project....  build a large enough facility with removable astro turf that seats 20k for the football stadium.  The Convention Center/Football stadium on the riverfront.  Easy access for large equipment...  farm shows, tractor pulls, car shows, etc.  Do it for 80 million.  ISU then moves to FBS...  oh yea baby...  LOL  that part is sarcasm.  Really - the convention center with removable astro turf is possible.  A more versatile facility than Hulman could be.
> Forgive me if this has already been mentioned because I didn't read many earlier posts.



Another pipe dream


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> ..._* but my guess is the Hulman family never got a call about naming rights and the deficit they were faced with. If the Hulman family wasn't interested and I'm certain they would have given us rights to seek alumni, donor, naming right dollars elsewhere. I can't imagine a situation in which a convention center doesn't benefit Hulman & Co./Clabber Girl. We didn't go down that road - Indiana State was in a position to initiate these asks and have these conversations internally. The gap (if truly just $10ish million) wasn't that large. They could have found a way to come up with that - they choose not to. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you all to grasp. *_
> 
> Let's see now...wasn't your boy Patterson & the THCVB involved in these meetings? Look who sits on their Board:
> 
> http://terrehaute.com/contact-thcvb/
> 
> In a nutshell, who's FAULT is it if the "Hulman's never got a call?"
> 
> When I saw LINDA LAMBERT'S name on this Board, it immediately brought to mind her husband, who RAN Hulman Center for 30 yrs....now you know why the term "GEEB" is so popular in Terre Haute.


----------



## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> ... *"but my guess is the Hulman family never got a call about naming rights *and the deficit they were faced with. If the Hulman family wasn't interested and I'm certain they would have given us rights to seek alumni, donor, naming right dollars elsewhere. I can't imagine a situation in which a convention center doesn't benefit Hulman & Co./Clabber Girl. We didn't go down that road - Indiana State was in a position to initiate these asks and have these conversations internally. The gap (if truly just $10ish million) wasn't that large. They could have found a way to come up with that - they choose not to. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you all to grasp."
> 
> I had retired from this conversation........but I know for a fact that this is NOT true.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #47 said:


> SycamoreStateofMind said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... *"but my guess is the Hulman family never got a call about naming rights *and the deficit they were faced with. If the Hulman family wasn't interested and I'm certain they would have given us rights to seek alumni, donor, naming right dollars elsewhere. I can't imagine a situation in which a convention center doesn't benefit Hulman & Co./Clabber Girl. We didn't go down that road - Indiana State was in a position to initiate these asks and have these conversations internally. The gap (if truly just $10ish million) wasn't that large. They could have found a way to come up with that - they choose not to. I'm not sure what about that is so difficult for you all to grasp."
> 
> I had retired from this conversation........but I know for a fact that this is NOT true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you know for a fact then I guess you know more than I do on this topic because mine was simply a guess.
Click to expand...


----------



## shootingsycamore

In response to the $7mm "on the table" here's what transpired. The best Development Officer in the Foundation and among the best in the business had been cultivating the donor for over 3 years. It started out at $2mm and quickly developed into $7+mm. It was up to Dan Bradley to make the "Ask" and close it. Dan Bradley is admired for many reasons within the ISU community and for good reason. He is NOT however a Fundraiser/ Development person and never will be. What started out as a $7mm gift never materialized. The Foundation is in sore need of new leadership. The new Associate VP is very experienced and will hopefully right the ship. However Development and Cultivation take time, in most cases years. Unfortunately the Development Officer left last Dec. for a much better opportunity.


----------



## Bally #50

shootingsycamore said:


> In response to the $7mm "on the table" here's what transpired. The best Development Officer in the Foundation and among the best in the business had been cultivating the donor for over 3 years. It started out at $2mm and quickly developed into $7+mm. It was up to Dan Bradley to make the "Ask" and close it. Dan Bradley is admired for many reasons within the ISU community and for good reason. He is NOT however a Fundraiser/ Development person and never will be. What started out as a $7mm gift never materialized. The Foundation is in sore need of new leadership. The new Associate VP is very experienced and will hopefully right the ship. However Development and Cultivation take time, in most cases years. Unfortunately the Development Officer left last Dec. for a much better opportunity.



Thanks, SS. Now I can get back to girls VB and Football.


----------



## BankShot

Speaking of the "Hulman Family," anybody see the NEWS that came out 5 hrs ago:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/rose-h...cle_b99f65c6-88db-11e7-b362-67f1c4dd59a4.html

Sure puts a "spin" on the $11-12m gap, doesn't it...


----------



## Bally #50

BankShot said:


> Speaking of the "Hulman Family," anybody see the NEWS that came out 5 hrs ago:
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/rose-h...cle_b99f65c6-88db-11e7-b362-67f1c4dd59a4.html
> 
> Sure puts a "spin" on the $11-12m gap, doesn't it...



Great for them. We all know how beautiful that property is. This was part of the carrot dragged before horse 50 years ago in the infamous/alleged  "Hulman State" offer (heard by many of us in the 60's and early 70's) but NEVER confirmed by anyone still alive that I am aware of. Rankin allegedly held his ground on a split, part new, part old campus. Anton then offered the Rose Poly deal to them (money only) as they did change the name for them. No controversy here. It will never be proven either way.


----------



## BankShot

Ay idea how much RH paid for this 1,100 acres of PRIME real estate "just around the corner" from the TH Convention Bureau?


----------



## TwoMinuteDrill

shootingsycamore said:


> In response to the $7mm "on the table" here's what transpired. The best Development Officer in the Foundation and among the best in the business had been cultivating the donor for over 3 years. It started out at $2mm and quickly developed into $7+mm. It was up to Dan Bradley to make the "Ask" and close it. Dan Bradley is admired for many reasons within the ISU community and for good reason. He is NOT however a Fundraiser/ Development person and never will be. What started out as a $7mm gift never materialized. The Foundation is in sore need of new leadership. The new Associate VP is very experienced and will hopefully right the ship. However Development and Cultivation take time, in most cases years. Unfortunately the Development Officer left last Dec. for a much better opportunity.



It seems you can seldom find a President, at our level, that can fund raise, run the business and keep the academic side happy.  Those guys go to much bigger schools.  I think Bradley has been great for ISU, but I agree with you, he has accomplished very little in fund raising.  I know a few VP Development guys.  They all tell me the same thing; without the full engagement of the President, success will be limed.  Private schools figured that out long ago.  Might be time for a fund raising focused president.


----------



## shootingsycamore

TwoMinuteDrill said:


> It seems you can seldom find a President, at our level, that can fund raise, run the business and keep the academic side happy.  Those guys go to much bigger schools.  I think Bradley has been great for ISU, but I agree with you, he has accomplished very little in fund raising.  I know a few VP Development guys.  They all tell me the same thing; without the full engagement of the President, success will be limed.  Private schools figured that out long ago.  Might be time for a fund raising focused president.



You're correct. The privates had to figure it out or perish. Schools with large endowments and successful cultivation,solicitation and capital campaigns have sophistocated and very well developed Foundations and Development Staffs where "Fundraising" is institutionalized. Over the years I've been honored to serve on search committees for ISU, from the President to Deans.In the searches I've been involved with the one topic that all candidates no matter what the position being interviewed for has been their experience & success in capital campaigns & personal solicitation(s). Candidates have been eliminated because of those considerations. In the most important and critical cultivation(s) the President or Dean works with the Development Officer and has a very select portfolio. In the past, in the case of a Presidential search the  committee is asked by the Board of Trustees for 3 sometimes more candidates for their final consideration. I don't know if that is still protocol today.


----------



## TwoMinuteDrill

shootingsycamore said:


> You're correct. The privates had to figure it out or perish. Schools with large endowments and successful cultivation,solicitation and capital campaigns have sophistocated and very well developed Foundations and Development Staffs where "Fundraising" is institutionalized. Over the years I've been honored to serve on search committees for ISU, from the President to Deans.In the searches I've been involved with the one topic that all candidates no matter what the position being interviewed for has been their experience & success in capital campaigns & personal solicitation(s). Candidates have been eliminated because of those considerations. In the most important and critical cultivation(s) the President or Dean works with the Development Officer and has a very select portfolio. In the past, in the case of a Presidential search the  committee is asked by the Board of Trustees for 3 sometimes more candidates for their final consideration. I don't know if that is still protocol today.



I asked my two friends their opinion why some public institutions struggle versus privates to raise money.  To your point, they both said fundraising is about survival for privates.  Without it they don't exist.  One of my friends felt public schools know the tax payer is there providing and in some cases that was good enough.  The privates never had that option.  The privates had to learn to fish to live, most public's just take the free fish given by tax payers.


----------



## 4Q_iu

TwoMinuteDrill said:


> I asked my two friends their opinion why some public institutions struggle versus privates to raise money.  To your point, they both said fundraising is about survival for privates.  Without it they don't exist.  One of my friends felt public schools know the tax payer is there providing and in some cases that was good enough.  The privates never had that option.  The privates had to learn to fish to live, most public's just take the free fish given by tax payers.




Shocking to hear that public schools just take free fish from tax payers...   


Perhaps if more tax payers complained about the ridiculous number of public colleges across Indiana there would be more "free fish swimming around Indiana..."


----------



## shootingsycamore

TWOMINUTEDRILL,your friends observations are on the $$. There's another dimension that has significant impact. An example I've used before but rings true at the "privates' is the fact that from the moment an undergrad steps on campus, pride in the institution is instilled in he or she. They're basically told what it means to be a Princeton Tiger, USC Trojan etc.and that it's a lifetime commitment. That's when alumni cultivation starts. Pride in Alma Mater lasts a lifetime, hence estate gifts from  alums  to the college. You also see the same at the bigger publics. We've all been to events (football notably) at Big Ten,SEC (nothing like Tuscaloosa on game day) etc. and have seen the pride.  Development Officers at not just the privates but at the successful publics, have a deep and abiding respect for the alumni and the institution. Understanding not just the history but the culture of the institution is critical in Development work.


----------



## BankShot

Back to my original thread...

http://www.tribstar.com/news/isu-tr...cle_65e5309e-8e4b-11e7-8180-f73d8bdac687.html


----------



## Southgrad07

If they can pull it off that sounds good to me... 50 million would go a long way in the HC...Something is fishy here though....As i stated earlier and is in the article local gov. (city,county,etc) were willing to pony up 26 mil of the 75 mil to get this done....So by my math with the 37.5 mil from the state that leaves roughly 12.5 mil to cover on ISU's end....

Now in the article ISU claims they will get from 37.5 mil to 50 mil through donations,cash, and probably some debt..So by my math that is about 12.5 mil to cover on ISU's end...

The only possible things I can see going on here is the local gov. is full of shit on the 26 mil figure (don't think so, but could be possible i guess), the realtionship between ISU's board members and the city/county members was fractured to the point ISU said screw it (hope not because Gibson is a bigggg part of ISU's present and future growth), or  what I think is most likely is ISU wants to have full control of the building and does not want to rent in the future to use it... In that scenario they are probably saying "if we are going to have to raise 12.5 mil to get this thing done then why would we then pay a yearly fee to use it??" They probably don't see much value in the convention center from their angle and believe more money will be going directly to the HC now by going this route.


----------



## Bally #50

Southgrad07 said:


> If they can pull it off that sounds good to me... 50 million would go a long way in the HC...Something is fishy here though....As i stated earlier and is in the article local gov. (city,county,etc) were willing to pony up 26 mil of the 75 mil to get this done....So by my math with the 37.5 mil from the state that leaves roughly 12.5 mil to cover on ISU's end....
> 
> Now in the article ISU claims they will get from 37.5 mil to 50 mil through donations,cash, and probably some debt..So by my math that is about 12.5 mil to cover on ISU's end...
> 
> The only possible things I can see going on here is the local gov. is full of shit on the 26 mil figure (don't think so, but could be possible i guess), the realtionship between ISU's board members and the city/county members was fractured to the point ISU said screw it (hope not because Gibson is a bigggg part of ISU's present and future growth), or  what I think is most likely is ISU wants to have full control of the building and does not want to rent in the future to use it... In that scenario they are probably saying "if we are going to have to raise 12.5 mil to get this thing done then why would we then pay a yearly fee to use it??" They probably don't see much value in the convention center from their angle and believe more money will be going directly to the HC now by going this route.


 
Does this article sound familiar? It's truly has been an interesting discussion from the beginning and although I felt pretty disappointed about some of the more personal comments -- if all of this pans out as laid out in the article, it pretty much reflects what I said from the get go. If it gets done, my guess is that most of you will be thrilled with the end product, even if it doesn't include a convention center. 

Time for a chorus of Kum Ba Yah and move on in peace. $50mil will work nicely and in the end, it will get done correctly.


----------



## BankShot

I've stated all along that the CHEMISTRY on the Board overseeing this HC project was NOT conducive to sound decisionmaking and involved PERSONAL posturing for self-gain. 

Dr. Bradley had the VISION to see thru this BS and move forward, independent of the LOCAL minions.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Still don't see it that way but that's okay... 

At the end of the day Bradley wanted control and he drew a line in the sand. It worked out the way it worked out. Pawning it off on the city & county finances the way he did was the easy way out. Everyone would bite on that story line because it's not a lie - the city and the country are struggling. However, the funds for this project had already been committed and it's my belief all parties were ready to proceed with this project - if I'm wrong about that then so-be-it. 

Had Bradley just come out and said - hey look we'ere going to commit some additional University $$ to this project and we want to have control of the facility. At the end of the day I might have been more accepting to what went down. I didn't like the idea of piling on the city/county all while throwing THCVB in on it - don't believe that made for very good press for anyone involved. 

If you disagree with me (and many of you apparently do) then that's just the way it goes. I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. I'm glad they are going to renovate the HC, I hate the way it played out. The chest pounding in this thread about being right is hilarious - the only thing anyone was right about is Indiana State & Bradley wanting control over the contractor/the plans and about everything else. They wanted the city/county/thcvb money but they wanted them to stay out of the way...


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Still don't see it that way but that's okay...
> 
> At the end of the day Bradley wanted control and he drew a line in the sand. It worked out the way it worked out. Pawning it off on the city & county finances the way he did was the easy way out. Everyone would bite on that story line because it's not a lie - the city and the country are struggling. However, the funds for this project had already been committed and it's my belief all parties were ready to proceed with this project - if I'm wrong about that then so-be-it.
> 
> Had Bradley just come out and said - hey look we'ere going to commit some additional University $$ to this project and we want to have control of the facility. At the end of the day I might have been more accepting to what went down. I didn't like the idea of piling on the city/county all while throwing THCVB in on it - don't believe that made for very good press for anyone involved.
> 
> If you disagree with me (and many of you apparently do) then that's just the way it goes. I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. I'm glad they are going to renovate the HC, I hate the way it played out. The chest pounding in this thread about being right is hilarious - the only thing anyone was right about is Indiana State & Bradley wanting control over the contractor/the plans and about everything else. They wanted the city/county/thcvb money but they wanted them to stay out of the way...



http://www.orthoactivist.org/app/document/14479063;jsessionid=10xsq26no8yaf1o2jy8546zrf8

Pretty much explains the "posturing" involved...



This pic actually tells the story of the CIB inner workings (or lack thereof). Note Dr. Bradley's arms...

Any idea why the University would take this attitude re: TH contractors and local politics? It's the "big fish in the lil' pond" dichotomy, and Dr. Bradley saw no need to become entangled in a "net."


----------



## BankShot

Latest in TH "pay to play" court dynamics:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/terre-...cle_e52b2db0-98c6-11e7-894f-e72b19379aa3.html


----------



## southernindianaballer

I still think, as mentioned before, we will see an effort to move a convention center to the riverfront as part of the riverscape project.  TH says they have at least 35 million (probably 45 million) available and are still trying to find a way to get a convention center - as of yesterday.  Put it on the riverfront... bundle some money making activities with the diesel fest, farm shows, concerts, tractor pulls....   removable turf that would allow 20k spectators for football and soccer indoors which creates more consistent ticket sales for fall/winter sports.  Can it be done for 80 million after ISU pitches in a bit?  TH controls the convention center, ISU controls the Hulman Center - the way it should be, frankly IMHO.  I mean... Owensboro built their very nice convention center for 50 million.  TH needs to make theirs more versatile with one large convention space (among a few smaller spaces) that can handle concerts, football, etc.  Frankly, I think for 65 million, it can be done and be very nice.


----------



## BankShot

Not in your or my lifetime. There are major administrative/govt issues at play in TH/Vigo that simply won't disappear at the wave of a wand." They've existed for multi-decades and are indigenous to stable economic progress. Going to be very difficult to bring investment $$$ into the Wabash Valley with these issues of political instability & trust.

One example is the recent selection of the I-70 area "Riverscape" for construction of a prison-sized Vigo County Jail. How does this even come close to the "vision & planning" undertaken for the Wabash River area which so many have worked hard to create? But that's what you get when you elect a 20-yr. "school bus driver" as Pres. of the Vigo County Commissioners. Get my point? 

Here's a recent article surrounding up & coming political leader, Brendan Kearns, a wonderful well-balanced LEADER for the TH/Vigo future. Can you believe this "smoke filled pool room"-type politics? This is a SYSTEMIC problem which crosses generational boundaries.

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_7ae1e4c9-d4a5-52ca-a45c-7cda6bf6ee98.html

But will the next local election displace this cronyism? Come on, take an EDUCATED guess...


----------



## southernindianaballer

wow - if that's true - and it looks to be - that is a bad situation.  I guess logic doesn't rule?  Don't you just wish some adults could just get along for the better of the majority?  Putting a prison on prime riverfront property...  That is laughable and a waste of major income for the community...  since the prison can obviously be moved to a different location and the small revenue generated for housing prisoners from other areas can still be obtained.





BankShot said:


> Not in your or my lifetime. There are major administrative/govt issues at play in TH/Vigo that simply won't disappear at the wave of a wand." They've existed for multi-decades and are indigenous to stable economic progress. Going to be very difficult to bring investment $$$ into the Wabash Valley with these issues of political instability & trust.
> 
> One example is the recent selection of the I-70 area "Riverscape" for construction of a prison-sized Vigo County Jail. How does this even come close to the "vision & planning" undertaken for the Wabash River area which so many have worked hard to create? But that's what you get when you elect a 20-yr. "school bus driver" as Pres. of the Vigo County Commissioners. Get my point?
> 
> Here's a recent article surrounding up & coming political leader, Brendan Kearns, a wonderful well-balanced LEADER for the TH/Vigo future. Can you believe this "smoke filled pool room"-type politics? This is a SYSTEMIC problem which crosses generational boundaries.
> 
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_7ae1e4c9-d4a5-52ca-a45c-7cda6bf6ee98.html
> 
> But will the next local election displace this cronyism? Come on, take an EDUCATED guess...


----------



## BankShot

Stumbled upon his this 6 mos. "news" item re: TH's bond rating....

http://www.thaipr.net/finance/765054


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

A few things here. 

I was upset and remain frustrated with how the convention center deal played out. Initially I was frustrated with Bradley and his role in not getting this project done with the funds that were committed by other parties involved. I remain convinced it had more to do with control than it did actual money. I think that is quite apparent but what has been proposed to be built instead. 

After the news that came out last week about the County Council - most notably Anderson and Marvel I have to say my frustration with ISU/Bradley is much less than it initially was. The jail on the riverfront was a disaster from the start. They were forcing that jail on taxpayers and forcing only a single location - the tact they used was terrible and unprofessional. 

In response to "not getting what they wanted" they decide to cut funding to Riverscape. As if they public wouldn't recognize this as clear retaliation for Riverscapes role in campaigning against the jail on that property. How pathetic can we get? Seeing how that played out I can only imagine what ISU and President Bradley were dealing with and can see why things played out publicly they way they did. 

And then after all of that to find out that they (Marvel) tried to pressure Bardley into calming down the noise coming from ISU employees on the jail site. Are you kidding me? And then he tried to go after Kearns job - who was also apposed to the price of the jail and the proposed locations. Bank isn't wrong - what is playing out in Terre Haute/Vigo Co. politically right now is a mess. Very upsetting to see the rather elementary level of intelligence displayed by many of our elected officials - they are just not very smart people.


----------



## niklz62

boy, are you guys trying to get Illinois to annex you?  It's like you are in the minor leagues but performing amazing.


----------



## BankShot

niklz62 said:


> boy, are you guys trying to get Illinois to annex you?  It's like you are in the minor leagues but performing amazing.



There's some amazing historical parallels between Chicago & TH over the past 100+ yrs...


----------



## Sycamore Proud

BankShot said:


> There's some amazing historical parallels between Chicago & TH over the past 100+ yrs...



That's not necessarily something the TH Chamber of Commerce would promote.  Well, we re talking about the Haute--maybe they would???


----------



## BankShot

Sycamore Proud said:


> That's not necessarily something the TH Chamber of Commerce would promote.  Well, we re talking about the Haute--maybe they would???



https://wthhistory.wordpress.com/2014/12/06/when-the-dillinger-gang-came-to-west-terre-haute/






http://www.tribstar.com/news/lifest...cle_cdd6aa41-5bb5-5a17-81db-dd2f74770989.html

Hideout not too far from ISU Memorial Stadium:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cvmnrobs/6992870587

My favorite TH political history story:

http://brisray.com/th/troberts1.htm

***Can you believe that the IN State Dept of Ed. threatened to MOVE Indiana Normal (ISU) because of its proximity to the "red light district." Ahh yes, TH, "A Level Above"...what a legacy.

Anyone see this re: the Chair of the ISU Aviation Dept? Geeeesh...
http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_c07a3822-7cba-5ba0-8a24-6e8b33f01b99.html


----------



## Bally #50

Just a short note: *Woz* and I cornered Dan Bradley last night at the President's Fall Tour and asked him straight up about the situation with the Hulman Center and the $37.5 mil from the state for HC improvements. Although it is not a done deal, we should know if ISU can go on it's own with official approval, hopefully, on October 20th. (could be a nice Homecoming announcement although that is not Dan's thought but mine). He was cautious that nothing is a sure thing with the legislature but this decision is being made by a five-man committee. He did say they were hopeful that it would be approved and construction would begin immediately after the basketball season. We made no reference to the remaining funds but it felt to me that he had answers in the back of his mind. As I have said before, I truly felt that they knew last year that we were going on our own and that in the long run, it will be what is best for Indiana State. He also discussed some about football and where we stand there long-term as well as stadium-wise but I think we will save that for another day. Woz, any thoughts or disagreements on what I said?


----------



## meistro

Bally #50 said:


> Just a short note: *Woz* and I cornered Dan Bradley last night at the President's Fall Tour and asked him straight up about the situation with the Hulman Center and the $37.5 mil from the state for HC improvements. Although it is not a done deal, we should know if ISU can go on it's own with official approval, hopefully, on October 20th. (could be a nice Homecoming announcement although that is not Dan's thought but mine). He was cautious that nothing is a sure thing with the legislature but this decision is being made by a five-man committee. He did say they were hopeful that it would be approved and construction would begin immediately after the basketball season. We made no reference to the remaining funds but it felt to me that he had answers in the back of his mind. As I have said before, I truly felt that they knew last year that we were going on our own and that in the long run, it will be what is best for Indiana State. He also discussed some about football and where we stand there long-term as well as stadium-wise but I think we will save that for another day. Woz, any thoughts or disagreements on what I said?



I have heard that we won't have many, if any non con games next year because of construction. I think they're pretty confident that something will happen.


----------



## WOZ

Bally #50 said:


> Just a short note: *Woz* and I cornered Dan Bradley last night at the President's Fall Tour and asked him straight up about the situation with the Hulman Center and the $37.5 mil from the state for HC improvements. Although it is not a done deal, we should know if ISU can go on it's own with official approval, hopefully, on October 20th. (could be a nice Homecoming announcement although that is not Dan's thought but mine). He was cautious that nothing is a sure thing with the legislature but this decision is being made by a five-man committee. He did say they were hopeful that it would be approved and construction would begin immediately after the basketball season. We made no reference to the remaining funds but it felt to me that he had answers in the back of his mind. As I have said before, I truly felt that they knew last year that we were going on our own and that in the long run, it will be what is best for Indiana State. He also discussed some about football and where we stand there long-term as well as stadium-wise but I think we will save that for another day. Woz, any thoughts or disagreements on what I said?



Nothing to add Bally.  Good recap.


----------



## niklz62

does anyone know if that 37.5M is money from the state or money they will allow to be borrowed?


----------



## rapala

From state.


----------



## BankShot

niklz62 said:


> does anyone know if that 37.5M is money from the state or money they will allow to be borrowed?



The funds have already been appropriated by the IN Legislature. The recent "shift of gears" by Pres. Bradley re: revised plans means that the IN State Budget Committee (see my prior post) must approve the changes. They don't meet again until April, 2018.


----------



## rapala

I was thinking the next meeting was Sept 22


----------



## Bally #50

BankShot said:


> The funds have already been appropriated by the IN Legislature. The recent "shift of gears" by Pres. Bradley re: revised plans means that the IN State Budget Committee (see my prior post) must approve the changes. *They don't meet again until April, 2018*.



That is simply incorrect. As I stated, the decision is expected to be made (by this 5-man "committee" on October 20th). I would have to say that President Bradley should be credible in this matter.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #50 said:


> That is simply incorrect. As I stated, the decision is expected to be made (by this 5-man "committee" on October 20th. I would have to say that President Bradley should be credible in this matter.



I think one thing is quite apparent in this thread. Bally (& perhaps WOZ) know quite a bit more than the rest of us. Especially when it comes to the business affairs of Indiana State University. I mean I would have to agree that Pres. Bradley should be credible in this matter. I didn't think someone would could sound more condescending than Bank until Bally surpassed him while replying to him. Well done sir - quite impressive.


----------



## BankShot

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I think one thing is quite apparent in this thread. Bally (& perhaps WOZ) know quite a bit more than the rest of us. Especially when it comes to the business affairs of Indiana State University. I mean I would have to agree that Pres. Bradley should be credible in this matter. I didn't think someone would could sound more condescending than Bank until Bally surpassed him while replying to him. Well done sir - quite impressive.



My mistake...looks like Oct 20th is the next meeting (as Bally says). "Condescending" is SSOM's term, never my intent. Typical over reaction of his.  

https://www.in.gov/sba/2370.htm

Members:

https://www.in.gov/sba/2385.htm


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

BankShot said:


> My mistake...looks like Oct 20th is the next meeting (as Bally says). "Condescending" is SSOM's term, never my intent. Typical over reaction of his.
> 
> https://www.in.gov/sba/2370.htm
> 
> Members:
> 
> https://www.in.gov/sba/2385.htm



I stand behind my original post regardless of your stance...


----------



## niklz62

you're all stupid

I win:razz:


----------



## BankShot

For those who might desire to convey their personal thoughts in support of the HC Project prior to the Oct. 20th Budget Meeting, see the following:

    Senator Luke Kenley, Chair 	(R, Noblesville) 	        Retired
    Representative Tim Brown   	(R, Crawfordsville)	H41@iga.in.gov

    Representative Terry Goodin 	(D, Austin)		        H66@iga.in.gov

    Senator Karen Tallian 	           (D, Portage)		S4@iga.in.gov

    Jason D. Dudich, Budget Director 	 		        Jdudich@sba.in.gov


Alternates:

    Representative Bob Cherry 	(R, Greenfield)	        S9@iga.in.gov
	***Replaces Luke Kenley who retired.	

    ***Senator Ryan Mishler 	           (R, Bremen) 
https://www.953mnc.com/2017/07/17/b...yan-mishler-gets-major-committee-appointment/

    Senator Greg Taylor 	                   (D, Indianapolis)
    Representative Greg Porter 	   (D, Indianapolis)


----------



## BankShot

Terre Haute now trying to put a "band-aid" over a massive wound...that's all we need, is another 90-day delay:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_78185118-b910-5b1a-94c0-d3d6fdd59b4b.html

Again, we can OVERCOME this "local" control issue by sending thoughts to the members of the Budget Committee listed above. Frankly, ISU is "better off" going alone on this project. *ISU will control HC*, not people like Judy Anderson and John Marvel.

***Ironic re: the timing of Gibson's hire of a "Woodsie" to be TH Lobbyist on this issue, @ $45,000...

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_929d2144-2d73-5d22-89f9-214ddd39b0a3.html

- read Lastcamp4's "comments"...


----------



## BankShot

BankShot said:


> Terre Haute now trying to put a "band-aid" over a massive wound...that's all we need, is another 90-day delay:
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_78185118-b910-5b1a-94c0-d3d6fdd59b4b.html
> 
> Again, we can OVERCOME this "local" control issue by sending thoughts to the members of the Budget Committee listed above. Frankly, ISU is "better off" going alone on this project. *ISU will control HC*, not people like Judy Anderson and John Marvel.
> 
> ***Ironic re: the timing of Gibson's hire of a "Woodsie" to be TH Lobbyist on this issue, @ $48,000...
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_929d2144-2d73-5d22-89f9-214ddd39b0a3.html
> 
> - read Lastcamp4's "comments"...



Btw, read the VERY LAST of this article (hidden in small print re: the hiring of Rachel Leslie:
http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_922156c0-3c7f-5275-b4a7-4aa32bec2138.html

Is she even a REGISTERED lobbyist in Indiana? If not, her voice for TH should be "mute." 
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/ter...2UGPHLO3/commissioners-pay-crony-lobbyist-48k

Here's a copy of MY correspondence to the IN State Budget Committee following today's Trib-Star news:
--------------------------------------
 Dear Budget Committee Members:

On October 20th you will meet to decide the fate of ISU Pres. Daniel Bradley's proposal to go forward with ISU's "independent" plan to renovate Hulman Center with the support of $37.5m of Hoosier-supported revenue. Dr. Bradley studied this decision long & hard after personally witnessing the "conflicts of patronage" involving Terre Haute & Vigo County politicians, who are currently under FBI investigation for "pay to play" contract fraud. There is also a SIMILAR private lawsuit including Terre Haute as a party in "pay to play" contracting involving local government. Parallel to these issues, the local Vigo County School Corporation (VCSC) is still under FBI investigation for similar "pay to play" executive fraud, during which two (2) key employees were prosecuted and plead guilty.

In a nutshell, Dr. Bradley is seeking to AVOID any impropriety(s) associated  with the Hulman Center Construction and  Management, thus seeking to keep LOCAL POLITICS  out of this deal. I should also note the current very low BOND RATING status of local government, which if added as a co-party to the HC Project, would inevitably drive final costs higher.

I disagree w/ the premise of the following article, feeling that it is in best interest of Indiana State University to complete this project without the City of Terre Haute and Vigo County polluting the chemistry of Dr. Bradley's initiative, and protecting Hoosier citizens from untrustworthy government "leaders."

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_78185118-b910-5b1a-94c0-d3d6fdd59b4b.html

Sincerely,

BANKSHOT


----------



## BankShot

_Hulman_ Center Neighbor Questions TH Fiscal Condition

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_231c970a-6e16-5b1f-97fb-38905437b3e3.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

The $37.5 million state appropriation is the second highest in university history.

More...


----------



## TreeTop

Finally some real info...

"Construction for the Hulman Center is scheduled to commence following the 2017-18 men's and women's basketball seasons and renovation work is anticipated to occur over approximately 26 months. The university will continue to hold limited activities during the renovation period."


----------



## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> Finally some real info...
> 
> "Construction for the Hulman Center is scheduled to commence following the 2017-18 men's and women's basketball seasons and renovation work is anticipated to occur over approximately 26 months. The university will continue to hold limited activities during the renovation period."



The 26 month number is a downer. This is what I had heard and was told hoops would be displaced for two years. 

Wonder if we'll be playing our home games at Rose?


----------



## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> Wonder if we'll be playing our home games at Rose?



I'd be fine with that.

http://athletics.rose-hulman.edu/facilities/Facilities_Photos/Basketball/index


----------



## Blue Streaker

According to the article in the TribStar, limited activities in the Hulman Center including commencement and basketball will remain in the Hulman Center.


----------



## meistro

Blue Streaker said:


> According to the article in the TribStar, limited activities in the Hulman Center including commencement and basketball will remain in the Hulman Center.



This is my understanding as well. But, probably only conference games. Most of our non conference will be on the road.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Blue Streaker said:


> According to the article in the TribStar, limited activities in the Hulman Center including commencement and basketball will remain in the Hulman Center.



That's a positive. Sounds like they made changes because I'd heard from multiple people that the hoops team would be unable to use the facility for one season during renovations and that it wasn't well received.


----------



## treeman

Yes! Finally renovation to the Hulman Center! Now we gotta do this the right way, can't wait to see the renderings and plans for this project.

Also, can/will ISU have a separate campaign to raise some more money towards this project. I would think people would be willing to open up their pockets if they KNEW that their money was going towards specific part of the Hulman Center renovation.


----------



## sycamore tuff

I hope they put some seats on the baselines like they use to have.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

sycamore tuff said:


> I hope they put some seats on the baselines like they use to have.



if it is not improved I likely have purchased my last season ticker.


----------



## meistro

sycamore tuff said:


> I hope they put some seats on the baselines like they use to have.



Do you mean the seats behind the baskets where they have risers and temporary chairs?


----------



## nwi stater

Are there still bleachers in the arena?  Could they still play games there??
Nice and close there


----------



## BankShot

*Hulman Center Funding Clears Final Hurdle - Time for Construction!*

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_80f5a382-2846-5cb5-a01d-0e7c835272d8.html

- Back to the focus of my original thread...


----------



## sycamore tuff

meistro said:


> Do you mean the seats behind the baskets where they have risers and temporary chairs?



Yes that is the location I was speaking of.  Not exactly on the baselines.  A few feet away.


----------



## meistro

sycamore tuff said:


> Yes that is the location I was speaking of.  Not exactly on the baselines.  A few feet away.



I agree, I sure hope they put those back in.


----------



## Bally #50

The way I remember it, they removed both "end" stands to allow for hockey to have enough length for a regulation rink, and ALSO, to leave a large area for a stage. They probably could rebuild both ends like the original because minor league hockey never came and they have had a handful of ice shows. Great idea. 

Note: that would mean the end of the Varsity Club and IAF suite on the south end, but my guess is they can relocate it as well. When I congratulated Dr. Dan yesterday for the Hulman Center success, he said "NOW, finally, the new President will have to deal ONLY with figuring out how to build the new football stadium."


----------



## meistro

Bally #50 said:


> The way I remember it, they removed both "end" stands to allow for hockey to have enough length for a regulation rink, and ALSO, to leave a large area for a stage. They probably could rebuild both ends like the original because minor league hockey never came and they have had a handful of ice shows. Great idea.
> 
> Note: that would mean the end of the Varsity Club and IAF suite on the south end, but my guess is they can relocate it as well. When I congratulated Dr. Dan yesterday for the Hulman Center success, he said "NOW, finally, the new President will have to deal ONLY with figuring out how to build the new football stadium."



I never heard anything about moving them for Hockey. They were portable and folded back. I always heard they were removed for safety reasons and we didn't have enough money to replace them. They need to be put back.


----------



## Bally #50

Who knows Meistro? Safety makes sense but so are much of the end zone seats at Banker's Life so I'd think they'd be able to make them work. No matter what the reason, many weren't happy when it happen. a true bowl looked more attractive than two ends chopped up and with more seats and the way I understand, the opening on the 2nd size was to allow ice shows to come to HC and they have barely had any.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

I sometimes wonder why my friends and I pay a premium price for cheap plastic school cafeteria chairs.  It needs to be better.


----------



## WOZ

Sycamore Proud said:


> I sometimes wonder why my friends and I pay a premium price for cheap plastic school cafeteria chairs.  It needs to be better.



Agree.  
They also need to bring back the seating section, on the end where the band is , so we can have a better/larger student section. Having some students in the lower bowl and some in the upper bowl is not fair.  Get the kids close to the action.  More attractive student seating is a prerequisite to increase the size of The Forest


----------



## southernindianaballer

Have a feeling they go with nice retractable seating on the ends with chairbacks.  Modular....
Keeps the ability to open up the floor for different events.


----------



## Bally #50

One quick thought.....Adding seats up to the concourse, filling in that area with seats, should MORE than compensate for the money's earned in the ISU Foundation "Suite" on the south end and the two stands in between the suite and the court.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Bradley got the job done.  He had plenty of obstacles too.  Now the city/county need to put a convention center with an indoor football/soccer facility between east 150 and west 150 (Ohio & Cherry) overlooking the Wabash river and downtown TH...  walk straight down Wabash.  The best tailgating available on Dresser drive in the park along wabash.  Utilization of both riverfront and downtown drastically improve.  The visibility of the convention center will be outstanding and a grand welcome for people from the west crossing the wabash.  Get a nice hotel attached.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

southernindianaballer said:


> Bradley got the job done.  He had plenty of obstacles too.  Now the city/county need to put a convention center with an indoor football/soccer facility between east 150 and west 150 (Ohio & Cherry) overlooking the Wabash river and downtown TH...  walk straight down Wabash.  The best tailgating available on Dresser drive in the park along wabash.  Utilization of both riverfront and downtown drastically improve.  The visibility of the convention center will be outstanding and a grand welcome for people from the west crossing the wabash.  Get a nice hotel attached.



http://www.monolithic.org/sports/more/consider-a-monolithic-dome-special-events-facility

And FEMA will pick up a chunk of the tab...


----------



## treeman

Probably means nothing and we will find the truth out fairly soon as they have stated the final plans for the hulman center are already in place. But a poster over at mvcfans says that they read that capacity will be reduced to 9,000. I really like that reduction but still believe that the 8,000-8,500 is our sweet spot. I guess it all depends on where they plan on making that reduction and what new configuration will occur. Im hoping for some suites and lounges though.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> Probably means nothing and we will find the truth out fairly soon as they have stated the final plans for the hulman center are already in place. But a poster over at mvcfans says that they read that capacity will be reduced to 9,000. I really like that reduction but still believe that the 8,000-8,500 is our sweet spot. I guess it all depends on where they plan on making that reduction and what new configuration will occur. Im hoping for some suites and lounges though.



I'd be all for 8,000 seats and I'd be all for a set of suites, too. 

I also agree with previous posts about going from the hard ass chairs to comfortable, wider cushioned chairs. If this is our one time to do this right, I hope they focus on end user experience as much as possible to put in creature comforts and amenities to lure in fans.


----------



## BankShot

southernindianaballer said:


> Bradley got the job done.  He had plenty of obstacles too.  Now the city/county need to put a convention center with an indoor football/soccer facility between east 150 and west 150 (Ohio & Cherry) overlooking the Wabash river and downtown TH...  walk straight down Wabash.  The best tailgating available on Dresser drive in the park along wabash.  Utilization of both riverfront and downtown drastically improve.  The visibility of the convention center will be outstanding and a grand welcome for people from the west crossing the wabash.  Get a nice hotel attached.



Please share what you've been smoking...:cheeky:


----------



## southernindianaballer

Can't do that Bank...  But I have to be a bit positive...  a ton of good is happening at I S U but people find a way to be negative...  I do lace my comments with a bit of sarcasm on occasion.  Lol
But....  Indytree has a point.  Fema has funded projects at 75% before.  The Wabash valley needs a fema shelter.  We have air, rail, hwy...   police station and government offices near the wabash...
I remember many people, I mean a lot, who said the HC renovation would never be a reality...  Well....  here we are with a new HC.  Too bad Bradley is leaving...




BankShot said:


> Please share what you've been smoking...:cheeky:


----------



## Bally #50

As I commented yesterday, Bradley outright told me Saturday that HC will be where the buck stops for him and that he specifically said that he will leave anything football stadium to whom ever the new president is. He would seem very firm on that, but it did sound like some of the pre-work had already been done. He had told me earlier when I complained about the possibility of having a track AND a football stadium, that money could dictate it but he had hoped that it would be a separate facility.

I heard they are down to two candidates for Prez and one is from ISU and the other a woman. Deborah Curtis, provost at the University of Central Missouri, and Provost, Michael Licari, from ISU. Hope they like FOOTBALL~


----------



## Blue Streaker

At this point I do not think they will be adding any suites.  I do think they are going to add a more permanent deck/patio type area to replace the makeshift corporate area they are using now.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #50 said:


> As I commented yesterday, Bradley outright told me Saturday that HC will be where the buck stops for him and that he specifically said that he will leave anything football stadium to whom ever the new president is. He would seem very firm on that, but it did sound like some of the pre-work had already been done. He had told me earlier when I complained about the possibility of having a track AND a football stadium, that money could dictate it but he had hoped that it would be a separate facility.
> 
> I heard they are down to two candidates for Prez and one is from ISU and the other a woman. Deborah Curtis, provost at the University of Central Missouri, and Provost, Michael Licari, from ISU. Hope they like FOOTBALL~



Not exactly breaking news here... 

President Bradley isn’t going to do anything with football in his final month of employment. Shocked! 

And you heard they were down to two Presidential candidates?! The press release a week + or so ago would confirm that.


----------



## Bally #50

I certainly wasn't trying to break news for sure. S.Baller brought up the football stadium and it was difficult to tell which facility was being mentioned at that point. As for the president candidates, I hadn't seen squat about those two on here and simply reacted that they were out there and they will have to figure the stadium issue out. It's the biggest decision for ISU in a decade and I am sorry if I mentioned them and if someone else did, I just hadn't read it yet. I was at Homecoming for three days and wasn't reading much, other than menu's.  SSOM, If I have some big news, believe me, I'll let you know.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> The 26 month number is a downer. This is what I had heard and was told hoops would be displaced for two years.
> 
> Wonder if we'll be playing our home games at Rose?



No non-conference home games. 

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/loca...cle_0af335b3-3e33-5719-bfc4-c50342b15e5f.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Bally #50 said:


> I certainly wasn't trying to break news for sure. S.Baller brought up the football stadium and it was difficult to tell which facility was being mentioned at that point. As for the president candidates, I hadn't seen squat about those two on here and simply reacted that they were out there and they will have to figure the stadium issue out. It's the biggest decision for ISU in a decade and I am sorry if I mentioned them and if someone else did, I just hadn't read it yet. I was at Homecoming for three days and wasn't reading much, other than menu's.  SSOM, If I have some big news, believe me, I'll let you know.



Here you go:

https://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?38860


----------



## TreeTop

So with no non-conference games at Hulman Center for two years, what are our options for non-conference 'home' games...and what are our best options?

The Arena - with temporary seating installed
Rose-Hulman
Banker's Life in Indy
The Coliseum in Indy
Any high school in Vigo County
What Else?


----------



## BankShot

Retro-Arena - providing fans the idea of what "coziness & a sore butt" will do to ISU hoop enthusiasm.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> So with no non-conference games at Hulman Center for two years, what are our options for non-conference 'home' games...and what are our best options?
> 
> The Arena - with temporary seating installed
> Rose-Hulman
> Banker's Life in Indy
> The Coliseum in Indy
> Any high school in Vigo County
> What Else?



You've got a couple ways to frame this in my opinion and it depends on how the school wants to handle it. We typically have 5-6 non-conference home games with one being an exhibition and one being the MVC/MWC Challenge. 

You could do a sort of barnstorming tour around the state and play non-conference games in alumni hot spots -- ie, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Evansville/Vincennes, Louisville metro, Northwest Indiana/Chicago/Lafayette, etc. You don't have to play at college sized arenas but this could serve a dual purpose that not only could you use it to wrangle alumni into the product but you can also hit those areas so you double-down on recruiting and get HS kids from that area to the games that may not otherwise be able to attend in Terre Haute. Hell, you could play at the biggest HS gyms in those areas since there are many huge HS gyms in Indiana.

Or two:

You could go full on road warriors and try to secure as many money games as possible. If it isn't money games, you could find those interested in doing a H/H series and take the front end on the road. If you'd go this route and I were Lansing, I'd want an extra year added to my contract since I'm being unfairly effected with the home winning percentage he has.

Or three:

You could play it safe and just play in the arena, Rose or what have you.


----------



## Westbadenboy

It would take some doing, but I'd vote for the Arena.  Try to get at least 3500 - 4500 seats back in there and bring back some real home court enthusiasm.  It could be a real "bonding" together for the students -- hell, maybe they'd have to bring back the old color coded student tickets with different levels of priority for students (you young folks wouldn't understand).

No need to alienate students trying play off campus -- with work and imagination you could get more folks in the Arena than at Rose, etc. anyway.
Plus we see how successful having an off campus football stadium has been in drawing kids out.

I vote Arena ......no contest


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Add me to those who voted for the arena. I think that is why they put new lights in the arena a week or so ago - gotta be the long term plan.


----------



## WOZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> No non-conference home games.
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/sports/loca...cle_0af335b3-3e33-5719-bfc4-c50342b15e5f.html



While they are trying to figure out the home schedule for the next two years, they better not forget about having something special for a grand re-opening!  Now's the time to see if we can get a P5 team to come to The New Hulman Center!
Didn't IU go to E'ville for the Ford Center opening?   Mayberry Clink can persuade Purdue to come to TH in a couple of years.
Get a big crowd into the place ,from day one, and you might convince a whole bunch to return for other games cause it's new and exciting.
I know scheduling is hard, but this can be done if the proper effort is made.


----------



## TreeTop

WOZ said:


> While they are trying to figure out the home schedule for the next two years, they better not forget about having something special for a grand re-opening!  Now's the time to see if we can get a P5 team to come to The New Hulman Center!
> Didn't IU go to E'ville for the Ford Center opening?   Mayberry Clink can persuade Purdue to come to TH in a couple of years.
> Get a big crowd into the place ,from day one, and you might convince a whole bunch to return for other games cause it's new and exciting.
> I know scheduling is hard, but this can be done if the proper effort is made.



UCLA!

Since we were their opening game for the renovated Pauley Pavilion.

(99.9% won't happen, but would be amazing)


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

TreeTop said:


> UCLA!
> 
> Since we were their opening game for the renovated Pauley Pavilion.
> 
> (99.9% won't happen, but would be amazing)



Bring LeMelo Ball to the Haute!


----------



## WOZ

TreeTop said:


> UCLA!
> 
> Since we were their opening game for the renovated Pauley Pavilion.
> 
> (99.9% won't happen, but would be amazing)



Yes, that thought came to mind but we could never afford them.
Unless, UCLA already had a game at Notre Dame , for example, and dropped down to TH to see (and play) where John Wooden once coached.

With Purdue, there isn't any plane fare or hotel accommodations necessary.  They should be affordable.
Charging an extra $5 bucks per ticket might cover that cost.  Not sure what the going rate is for us to buy such a game?
Nevertheless, it'll never happen unless we ask.   And it'll never happen if we wait until the last second.

Don't you wish that we had people working in the athletic offices that had the same enthusiasm as some of us?


----------



## nwi stater

WOZ said:


> Yes, that thought came to mind but we could never afford them.
> Unless, UCLA already had a game at Notre Dame , for example, and dropped down to TH to see (and play) where John Wooden once coached.
> 
> With Purdue, there isn't any plane fare or hotel accommodations necessary.  They should be affordable.
> Charging an extra $5 bucks per ticket might cover that cost.  Not sure what the going rate is for us to buy such a game?
> Nevertheless, it'll never happen unless we ask.   And it'll never happen if we wait until the last second.
> 
> Don't you wish that we had people working in the athletic offices that had the same enthusiasm as some of us?



Purdue opened the HC when it was spanking brand new back in 71...


----------



## treeman

I'd love to see some games in the arena...if they do it right!

Honestly, I'd almost wait to see how Barnes, Thomas, Rickman, Key, Hughes, Claycomb, Deady, Hunniernman perform on the court to get an idea of how the team is going to be in the next few years, and base your schedule off of that. If they could be something special, play in the Arena and get the "W". If you think they are a .500 ball club, I'm alright with going on the road with some $$$$$ games or starting a some home and homes with quality opponents.


----------



## treeman

Just a thought here: How long has it been since there has been a bball game in the arena? 45+ years? Is it even capable of handling a D1 basketball game with all the media, computers, cameras, lighting, wifi, fiberoptics, etc? Just a thought.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> You've got a couple ways to frame this in my opinion and it depends on how the school wants to handle it. We typically have 5-6 non-conference home games with one being an exhibition and one being the MVC/MWC Challenge.
> 
> You could do a sort of barnstorming tour around the state and play non-conference games in alumni hot spots -- ie, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Evansville/Vincennes, Louisville metro, Northwest Indiana/Chicago/Lafayette, etc. You don't have to play at college sized arenas but this could serve a dual purpose that not only could you use it to wrangle alumni into the product but you can also hit those areas so you double-down on recruiting and get HS kids from that area to the games that may not otherwise be able to attend in Terre Haute. Hell, you could play at the biggest HS gyms in those areas since there are many huge HS gyms in Indiana.
> 
> Or two:
> 
> You could go full on road warriors and try to secure as many money games as possible. If it isn't money games, you could find those interested in doing a H/H series and take the front end on the road. If you'd go this route and I were Lansing, I'd want an extra year added to my contract since I'm being unfairly effected with the home winning percentage he has.
> 
> Or three:
> 
> You could play it safe and just play in the arena, Rose or what have you.



I think they could manage with a combination of #2 and #3.  There are inevitably some non-con home games even the hardest of diehards don't care that much about (i.e. Missouri-St. Louis, Elon, etc.).  You can play those games in the arena and that should work just fine, but there's no need to push for a bigger fish to come to our house next year.  We can then focus on the money games and take as many of those as possible.  We'd still have a decent non-con schedule with a few arena home games we can win, but make the best of a bad situation and go play a couple big-boys and collect some checks.

In terms of where we'd play if it were a home game, the arena seems to be the only logical choice.


----------



## meistro

WOZ said:


> Yes, that thought came to mind but we could never afford them.
> Unless, UCLA already had a game at Notre Dame , for example, and dropped down to TH to see (and play) where John Wooden once coached.
> 
> With Purdue, there isn't any plane fare or hotel accommodations necessary.  They should be affordable.
> Charging an extra $5 bucks per ticket might cover that cost.  Not sure what the going rate is for us to buy such a game?
> Nevertheless, it'll never happen unless we ask.   And it'll never happen if we wait until the last second.
> 
> Don't you wish that we had people working in the athletic offices that had the same enthusiasm as some of us?



I believe there are those in the athletics office as passionate as we are. We all know that money has dictated a lot of what they can do. I'd love to play some games in the arena, I just don't think it's feasible because of the lack of seating, modern scoreboards, restrooms, concessions, etc.


----------



## Bluethunder

This may be a dumb question, but would playing all games outside of the HC make the project go faster?  IF they are going to start right after the season and then have conference games only in the HC during the season for two years, what would the timeline be if we just played all games out of the HC next season?

If that wouldn't speed up the timeline anyway, then my vote would be to play in the arena.  They have a year to figure out the logistics of bathrooms, locker rooms, seating.  I would think it is doable.


----------



## WOZ

meistro said:


> I believe there are those in the athletics office as passionate as we are. We all know that money has dictated a lot of what they can do. I'd love to play some games in the arena, I just don't think it's feasible because of the lack of seating, modern scoreboards, restrooms, concessions, etc.



Yes, you are absolutely right that there are passionate people working in our athletic offices and I apologize if I offended anyone.
However; can one be passionate without being enthusiastic?


----------



## SycamoreFan317

I vote for going on the road and playing through out the state. The Ball State game in two years should definitely be at Bankers Life. There are high school venues across the state that are more than big enough but I am not sure if the floors can be lengthen to 94 feet or not or can we get a exemption. I just think this would be a great recruiting opportunity for both academics and athletics as well as alumni.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_389d479f-59e5-51ff-853e-fdfc2fc5c63b.html

Who are these people and what in the heck are they doing? 

Do they know how to get public support for any project they propose? Apparently not, how does a meeting like this take place - the media has enough time to attend but the two representatives from Indiana State say they were not invited. WTF


----------



## treeman

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_389d479f-59e5-51ff-853e-fdfc2fc5c63b.html
> 
> Who are these people and what in the heck are they doing?
> 
> Do they know how to get public support for any project they propose? Apparently not, how does a meeting like this take place - the media has enough time to attend but the two representatives from Indiana State say they were not invited. WTF



It's almost comical (in a bad way) the way this situation played out. You can't blame Bradley for not wanting to give up any power over the Hulman Center. I really don't understand how shit like this can even take place these days.


----------



## TreeTop

Idiots and Children.  And one of them is the mayor, right?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_389d479f-59e5-51ff-853e-fdfc2fc5c63b.html
> 
> Who are these people and what in the heck are they doing?
> 
> Do they know how to get public support for any project they propose? Apparently not, how does a meeting like this take place - the media has enough time to attend but the two representatives from Indiana State say they were not invited. WTF


You can't fire me... I quit! 

What a sad lot of individuals in that room there. There shouldn't be any wonder why Terre Haute is struggling. What's worse is all of these clowns will continue to be appointed to boards and re-elected because of the GOH club.


----------



## Westbadenboy

If they ever do raise the money to build a separate "convention center" (I still don't know what kind of "conventions" come to small cities like Terre Haute ?) which is doubtful, and its a couple of blocks away, it will be interesting what happens if they would get some type of convention/meeting that needs a large display area and want to use the renovated Hulman Center.

As has been talked about much here city/county politics in Terre Haute/Vigo Co have always been full of crap ............from Tucker to Larrison to ......etc.....etc  The old saying from the Middle East about reaching a peace agreement there applies here .........
"They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity"
Move forward ISU, get a great new President, keep building academic programs, enhancing the campus, upping enrollment, and supporting better and better athletic programs.  
Unless and until the folks of Terre Haute finally wake up and see the rest of the world advancing further and further ahead of them and then decide they'd like to catch up, nothing will change.


----------



## meistro

There's always been a disconnect with ISU and the city and I don't understand it. Why doesn't our community embrace ISU like other communities their universities?


----------



## BankShot

meistro said:


> There's always been a disconnect with ISU and the city and I don't understand it. Why doesn't our community embrace ISU like other communities their universities?



In TH, it's all about "Fiefdom Politics"...been this way for over a century, and it's reinforced by the outdated township system of government. In a nutshell, it's an *UNWILLINGNESS to share or "compromise."* I laugh when I hear the term "collaborate" tossed around like a loose roll of toilet paper during the Fontanet Bean Dinner. :lol:

Yes, and Judy Anderson needs to _go back to driving a school bus_ (she did his for 20 yrs., before prostituting the name of ANOTHER Judy Anderson, who was once Mayor of TH and had a popular husband - Vigo School Teacher/Coach). Bottom line is that she is NOW the essence of the Democratic Party in Vigo County...sad state of affairs, but didn't  the other CIB members have a CONSCIENCE or balz?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

treeman said:


> It's almost comical (in a bad way) the way this situation played out. You can't blame Bradley for not wanting to give up any power over the Hulman Center. I really don't understand how shit like this can even take place these days.



The way it played out? Hell, apparently it's still playing out? Or maybe not? The article actually reads the way it plays out with members of the CIB asking open ended questions with no real apparent answer to the questions they are asking. Bank nailed it - no give in take by anyone in any instance. None of that is friendly fire - it's always a pissing match in Terre Haute. 



meistro said:


> There's always been a disconnect with ISU and the city and I don't understand it. Why doesn't our community embrace ISU like other communities their universities?



The two can't even agree on what side the convention center should face - in said phase 2 one group wanted the convention center to face downtown Terre Haute (seems logical) and the other wanted it to face campus (seems like self interest). The fact that they can't even agree on that shows just how dysfunctional this group was from the word "GO".

I've gone from being irritated at Bradley/ISU. To being irritated with the City/County (Marvel/Anderson). And back to being irritated with everyone involved. How can any of them continue to let this play out in the paper the way it has?? What in the hell ever happened to "no comment"? What is the point in them taking down the curtains and taking shots at each other in the public? Honestly, it serves no purpose - they are not being forthcoming by letting the consuming public watch them take jabs back and forth... 

It was the most nothing article I've ever seen in my life. When you end a sentence with a question it demands an answer and all of the sentences in that article were ended with a question.


----------



## BankShot

I'm now wondering how this "bumbling" might interfere w/ the ISU/HC architectural costs. Did the "plans" include the possibility of a future  "add-on" Convention Center, and what changes might be forthcoming to the design now that the "CIB" is totally out of the picture? Will ISU sue the CIB for "Breach of Contract?"

This whole turn of events by the CIB idiots seems more "punitive" ("We'll get back at those ISU people.") than anything else...

Btw, this "comment" by LastCamp on the Trib-Star article pretty well sums up the whole incident:
-------------------------------

"Let's see, we asked them to resign, but they didn't, so we just decided not to tell them when we have meetings.  That will fix everything.  When they don't show up for the meeting they don't know about, that means they have quit.  Or something like that.

I wonder if their lawyer told them that would be legal.  Surely not.  But then, where do they get these ideas?  Maybe they think that not telling their lawyer makes it legal.

Once again I am reminded of Alice in Wonderland, where just saying things makes them so.  When Alice questions that odd idea, Humpty Dumpty goes on to explain, "The question is, which is to be master-that's all."  That sure sounds familiar.

Two of these people are County Commissioners who, for months and months, have repeatedly referred to non-existent court orders about the jail.  Another has been in the middle of the magical sludge to diesel fiasco that has gotten the city sued.  And then there is the multi-hatted and peripatetic Mr. Witt, who conveniently chooses which of his multiple jobs he is doing at the time by simply calling himself whatever is convenient to the outcome.

Indeed, strange dealings and weird ideas here in Vigo.  The difference between these folks and Lewis Carroll is that our locals think this is the way the world really works."


----------



## BrokerZ

I'm not sure why Dr. Bradley felt it necessary to respond at all.  We got our money.  We're moving forward.  As for he or anyone else at ISU, why do you care what the CIB does any longer?  Phase 2 stopped being relevant the minute ISU moved forward on it's own.  Who gives a shit when a letter was postmarked versus the date/time of the meeting?

We (ISU) have taken our ball and gone home.  Why do we care if the other team decides to play another game without us?

Lastly, what an absolute terrible misappropriation of funds to try and build a $25M "convention/civic center" in downtown Terre Haute.  I don't live in Terre Haute and haven't for quite some time, but there strikes me to be plenty of better places and projects for which to use those funds.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> I'm not sure why Dr. Bradley felt it necessary to respond at all.  We got our money.  We're moving forward.  As for he or anyone else at ISU, why do you care what the CIB does any longer?  Phase 2 stopped being relevant the minute ISU moved forward on it's own.  Who gives a shit when a letter was postmarked versus the date/time of the meeting?
> 
> We (ISU) have taken our ball and gone home.  Why do we care if the other team decides to play another game without us?
> 
> Lastly, what an absolute terrible misappropriation of funds to try and build a $25M "convention/civic center" in downtown Terre Haute.  I don't live in Terre Haute and haven't for quite some time, but there strikes me to be plenty of better places and projects for which to use those funds.



Maybe as a last "fuck you" out the door? They tried to sabotage the Hulman Center project with the injunction stunt they pulled at the State House and luckily the folks up there saw through that. My guess is he basically wanted to say:






But seriously, he could have given a "no comment" to the paper but decided to be transparent. Don't we always bitch about the lack of transparency with regards to government and business dealings? He could have had a good rapport with the TribStar and felt it necessary to make sure they got the story right so the next President doesn't walk into any dog pies on the front lawn? 

The fact that the CIB still has plans and their behavior throughout the entire process, and tied to the fact of some of the "rumored" moves they've tried to pull as well as other political/business dealings from members on that board gives me no resource but to completely point the finger at them. They're corrupt and unethical cretins and I'm glad we're not "doing business" with them.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

You should read the paper again today as this continues to play out... I mean what in the absolute hell - first the jail and now this. The tact of these folks is as poor as you will ever see.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Westbadenboy said:


> If they ever do raise the money to build a separate "convention center" (I still don't know what kind of "conventions" come to small cities like Terre Haute ?) which is doubtful, and its a couple of blocks away, it will be interesting what happens if they would get some type of convention/meeting that needs a large display area and want to use the renovated Hulman Center...



The type of conventions this facility would draw would be state and 'regional' (Upper Midwest) - level conventions.

likely 2-4 day conventions; nothing on a national level because:

1) little to no air travel to The Haute
2) too few hotel rooms to book a huge, HUGE national convention

sad to see ISU and the city, county (continue) to 'oppose' one another but sadly, NOT surprising


----------



## BrokerZ

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You should read the paper again today as this continues to play out... I mean what in the absolute hell - first the jail and now this. The tact of these folks is as poor as you will ever see.



I can't hear their complaints or sour grapes.  I have $37.5M in cash around my years that's blocking my hearing.


----------



## niklz62

Jason Svoboda said:


> Maybe as a last "fuck you" out the door? They tried to sabotage the Hulman Center project with the injunction stunt they pulled at the State House and luckily the folks up there saw through that. My guess is he basically wanted to say:
> 
> *But seriously, he could have given a "no comment" to the paper but decided to be transparent*. Don't we always bitch about the lack of transparency with regards to government and business dealings? He could have had a good rapport with the TribStar and felt it necessary to make sure they got the story right so the next President doesn't walk into any dog pies on the front lawn?
> 
> The fact that the CIB still has plans and their behavior throughout the entire process, and tied to the fact of some of the "rumored" moves they've tried to pull as well as other political/business dealings from members on that board gives me no resource but to completely point the finger at them. They're corrupt and unethical cretins and I'm glad we're not "doing business" with them.



He should have been more Presidential and tweeted it.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Thought I'd add my two cents. I'm not sure what really wrong with the Hulman Center. I personally don't think it is an ugly building and I honestly think it is a pretty great basketball facility. The only improvements off hand that I can think of that I would like to see are all blue seats and seats at the ends to make it a true bowl shape. I really couldn't care less about the luxury boxes, the sound system, or the lights.

I went to the Valpo / Purdue game (at Purdue) last week and I thought their arena was a total dump. They literally have plastic benches as their seats in the upper level. At least all of our (permanent) seats have cushions and are real seats. If anyone is wondering, the Hulman Center is at least 3X nicer than Mackey Arena, if not more.

Regardless, I'm interested in seeing what renovations will be made and I'm sure with as much money as we're putting into it, it's going to look really good when it's done.


----------



## meistro

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Thought I'd add my two cents. I'm not sure what really wrong with the Hulman Center. I personally don't think it is an ugly building and I honestly think it is a pretty great basketball facility. The only improvements off hand that I can think of that I would like to see are all blue seats and seats at the ends to make it a true bowl shape. I really couldn't care less about the luxury boxes, the sound system, or the lights.
> 
> I went to the Valpo / Purdue game (at Purdue) last week and I thought their arena was a total dump. They literally have plastic benches as their seats in the upper level. At least all of our (permanent) seats have cushions and are real seats. If anyone is wondering, the Hulman Center is at least 3X nicer than Mackey Arena, if not more.
> 
> Regardless, I'm interested in seeing what renovations will be made and I'm sure with as much money as we're putting into it, it's going to look really good when it's done.



I disagree about Mackey. Yes, it has bleachers for a lot of the seating. But, all the video, lighting and scoreboard updates make it a great fan experience. And the concourse has all been updated. They purposely left the old feel in place. The exterior of Hulman Center is falling apart. The concourse is in desperate need of updating. I agree with what you want inside, although I'd lower the ceiling and reduce seats. Diehard basketball fans may not care about lights, video boards etc. But, most of the up and coming generations do, or you wouldn't see most arenas constantly updating.


----------



## niklz62

what does lowering the ceiling do and does that affect what other things can happen there like concerts ect?


----------



## meistro

niklz62 said:


> what does lowering the ceiling do and does that affect what other things can happen there like concerts ect?



Would improve sound quality and give a little more intimate feel. It was on their wish list I believe. It's not on the top of my list, but would be nice if we had the money.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

meistro said:


> I disagree about Mackey. Yes, it has bleachers for a lot of the seating. But, all the video, lighting and scoreboard updates make it a great fan experience. And the concourse has all been updated. They purposely left the old feel in place. The exterior of Hulman Center is falling apart. The concourse is in desperate need of updating. I agree with what you want inside, although I'd lower the ceiling and reduce seats. Diehard basketball fans may not care about lights, video boards etc. But, most of the up and coming generations do, or you wouldn't see most arenas constantly updating.



Well I'm part of the up and coming generation and I care more about my back and butt not being sore for 2 hours than the lights and the video boards. And doesn't ISU have a video board over center court and a fancy scoreboard? Sitting on hard benches is something I'd expect at a high school game, not a Big Ten game. Sorry, but I was not impressed at all with Purdue's arena. On the other hand the University of Illinois renovated their arena and it is really nice as I went there for an NIT game last season.


----------



## meistro

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Well I'm part of the up and coming generation and I care more about my back and butt not being sore for 2 hours than the lights and the video boards. And doesn't ISU have a video board over center court and a fancy scoreboard? Sitting on hard benches is something I'd expect at a high school game, not a Big Ten game. Sorry, but I was not impressed at all with Purdue's arena. On the other hand the University of Illinois renovated their arena and it is really nice as I went there for an NIT game last season.


To each his own. I don't think our video board and scoreboard is comparable to what Mackey has.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

meistro said:


> To each his own. I don't think our video board and scoreboard is comparable to what Mackey has.



What exactly is so bad about our scoreboard / video board and what exactly makes theirs so great?


----------



## meistro

Sycamorefan96 said:


> What exactly is so bad about our scoreboard / video board and what exactly makes theirs so great?


Ours isn't that bad, but there's is brand new and bigger and can do more. They also have apps to download on your phone that can be synchronized with the video boards. They can also now display graphics on the court. I like Hulman center but it's 40 some years old and needs updated and those updates will enhance the experience.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Yes, bigger more high tech video boards would be nice.  So would lighting that allows big time player introductions.  Mechanical improvements are likely the most need improvements of all.  A sound system that makes hearing and understanding what is being said is desperately needed.  Lots of things like this would truly enhance the experience. 

But you know, if the product on the floor isn't improved along with the physical environment it won't really make a big difference.   We need only look at Evansville for evidence of this.  Will the environment help?  Well, it very-well could aid recruiting.  But even that's not guaranteed.


----------



## TreeTop

Drake built a practice facility in 2013/2014, for $8mil.

Looks pretty sweet:

http://godrakebulldogs.com/facilities/?id=5

Wondering if anything like this could be part of our $50mil renovation to HC.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> Drake built a practice facility in 2013/2014, for $8mil.
> 
> Looks pretty sweet:
> 
> http://godrakebulldogs.com/facilities/?id=5
> 
> Wondering if anything like this could be part of our $50mil renovation to HC.



Is something wrong with the Arena where they currently practice?


----------



## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> Is something wrong with the Arena where they currently practice?



Compare it to the $8mil practice facility at Drake, and yes there's things wrong with it.

The current practice facility is absolutely adequate.  But if they were to be able to tie-in a new practice facility to HC, with all the amenities a player/coach/recruit would love to see...then it could ELEVATE (see what I did there) our program.


----------



## xfactor9600

It seems to me that ISU is at a chicken or the egg dilemma when it comes to basketball. (leaving aside investment in other sports). 

Renovate the Hulman Center to update it and make a better fan experience (which hopefully results in more revenue via attendance and things like luxury suites). This increased revenue could be used to then invest in salaries for coaches, amenities for student athletes, and that sort of thing. 

Renovate the facilities that the teams use that might attract "better" players who will then push ISU further up the standings, which may increase attendance and hopefully revenue. This revenue could then be used to improve HC, add salaries for coaches, that sort of thing. 


I don't know which is better. Or if even feasible.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Hopefully what is going to happen in the next couple of years will do BOTH


----------



## Jason Svoboda

WTHI has a poll asking folks about a tax for a convention center. Not going well. 

https://www.facebook.com/WTHITV/posts/10155824710571343


----------



## meistro

Jason Svoboda said:


> WTHI has a poll asking folks about a tax for a convention center. Not going well.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/WTHITV/posts/10155824710571343



Not a surprise. Most in this city have no vision or desire to think outside the box. And we wonder why we don't get more community support. Some of these people are probably the same ones who complain about ISU taking over the downtown. No vision. But, in there defense, the idea of a convention center needs to be sold better. Are people gonna come here for 3 or 4 days for a convention? probably not. But, there is a need in this area for a place that can seat 1,000 or so people for a 1 day conference or dinner, etc.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Why do we even need a convention center? As someone that has traveled all over North America I can tell you first hand that Terre Haute is a dump (sorry to be blunt) and I doubt there are too many people that are going to want to have a convention here. Honestly Effingham, Illinois might be a better place to hold a convention. And besides that what exactly is so bad about having a convention in a local high school (THN or THS) or on the Hulman Center floor? What about building it in the new casino? Oh wait, nevermind. We never get anything in Terre Haute that might actually benefit the community. Instead we need new jails and a new convention center that no one will use. Just wait, they'll raise taxes to build the new jail when they get around to it.

Raising taxes to do it is also a huge no for me. I was against the Hulman Convention Center as well for the same reason. Just another excuse to steal some money from taxpayers to give Greg Gibson some more money since supposedly he owns the land they plan to build it on (surprise, surprise).


----------



## meistro

I thought it was still gonna be downtown and possibly connected to Hulman Center. If it's not downtown, I wouldn't support it. I do think it would get used for smaller conferences.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

meistro said:


> I thought it was still gonna be downtown and possibly connected to Hulman Center. If it's not downtown, I wouldn't support it. I do think it would get used for smaller conferences.



From what I've heard it is supposed to be built north of Wabash between 8th and 9th St. The land of course is owned by Fontanet Holdings LLC (aka Greg Gibson). Maybe I'm missing something, but why couldn't they use the Indiana Theater as a "convention center"? Maybe that's too easy.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

What Terre Haute is sorely lacking fits in two categories. First, a vision for the future that goes beyond political kingdom building. Terre Haute needs to decide what it wants to be, and then create a comprehensive economic development plan to make it happen. I believe Terre Haute could attract small conventions and has the amenities to begin to make that happen. They aren’t going to hold these things in Dresser, and downtown actually has a nice, compact footprint with nice eateries, art museums, entertainment venues, and of course, ISU. A casino complex could really add to that vibe. A comprehensive plan is essential to have a roadmap laid out to get to where you want to go. Bringing a casino to town is NOT a comprehensive economic plan. 

The second thing that Terre Haute sorely lacks is leadership. The political leadership is corrupt, small-minded, completely lacking in the ability to think 20 years in the future, and are economically inept. And that’s the nicest thing I can say about Terre Haute’s political leaders. They are so inbred and their little webs are wound so tightly together that I’m not sure that the chain can be broken. It will take a special political talent to break the stranglehold that these crooks have on politics in my hometown. The entirety of the city and county leadership (boy, I use that term lightly) needs to be replaced by more civic minded people who are not simply looking to grow their bank accounts and grow their political power. The power of the police and fire unions over local politics must be broken. In short, if you are involved in local politics at all, you should be disqualified from any position of political power, no matter how small. 

Terre Haute needs leaders with the “20 years in the future” vision, and the ability to articulate that vision. The ability to say “Yes, we need an entertainment venue like a casino, but we also need to capitalize on Amazon if they come to Indy. And we need to sell our location and transportation capabilities to become a distribution hub. And we need to leverage an incredible educational system to become an incubator for new, cutting edge businesses.”  Leadership that realizes that a casino isn’t the end game, nor is a convention center, but rather each is a piece of a larger plan to expand and diversify Terre Haute’s economic base. Sell THAT to the people, and you might have something. 

I also have no doubt that anyone who challenges the status quo could inspire a real life version of the original “Walking Tall” movie. It will take a particularly strong person to be Terre Haute’s Buford Pusser.


----------



## krwilson2

reminds me of the same chat when i was at ISU in 2000......sadly


----------



## bluebill

If you think Terre Haute is a 'dump' why not move to Indy or Georga, or some other paridise....and ...QUITCHERBITCHIN'.  We palinly have a mediocre university with mediocre athletic programs at the present time.  Complaints from non-rersidents fall on deaf ear as they should.:razz:


----------



## sycamore tuff

bluebill said:


> If you think Terre Haute is a 'dump' why not move to Indy or Georga, or some other paridise....and ...QUITCHERBITCHIN'.  We* palinly* have a mediocre university with mediocre athletic programs at the present time.  Complaints from non-rersidents fall on deaf ear as they should.:razz:



Terre Haute is a dump!  I live here but not in the city limits.  Just drive around most areas of town and you will see for yourself.  I have no idea what your statement about a mediocre university is all about.  If you don't like ISU then go cheer for some other college team and pretend you got your degree them there.  Complaints from non-fans are not appreciated.


----------



## BankShot

Gotta overlook the "Double B" sometimes, as his gills get clogged w/ the polluted Otter Creek water, making everything he says or write sound a bit "fishy.":geezer:


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Terre Haute is no different than most small-to-mid sized rust belt cities that didn't move quick enough as residents and jobs headed South. ITF is 100% spot on about needing innovative leadership that doesn't have their hand put in the cookie jar. Unfortunately, what Terre Haute also needs is an injection of youth in those ranks. Instead of letting the bright minds at State, Rose and SMWC pack up and leave, you've got to find a way for them to stay and inspire them to get involved.

Here is my proposal to solving it. Turn Terre Haute into a Smart City. I'm serious and not just claiming it as a marketing gimmick.  

Create a joint program between Rose and State along with the larger tech and financial businesses Joink/Terre Haute First/etc to create the vision to make it happen. Pitch it to Microsoft who is already working on creating one in the future in Arizona. Let Terre Haute be their reclamation of an existing city, a former blue-collar factory city in the Midwest. Between the technology, business and other highly ranked programs at both State and Rose, you're not telling me you can't find enough brilliant minds to be involved. You also could likely get some of those minds invested enough to stay and open businesses centered around it. 

Additionally, moving to this vision would require a complete government overhaul. The underlying technology of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, blockchain, is going to be the next huge technology to revolutionize the world. China is currently starting the planning and building of smart cities surrounding it. One of the tenets behind the technology is the speed, cost savings, decentralization and transparency of operations.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...ge-the-way-governments-function/#73d94401313d

Just some ramblings on a Thursday afternoon.


----------



## treeman

sycamore tuff said:


> Terre Haute is a dump!  I live here but not in the city limits.  Just drive around most areas of town and you will see for yourself.



Let's be honest with ourselves; Terre Haute, Bloomington, South Bend, Muncie, and Lafeyette are all pretty comparable as cities themselves (not the nicest places on earth). The difference is Lafeyette, Bloomington, and South Bend have a university with a HUGE enrollment or alumni with deep pockets that frequent the city and help clean up the area.


----------



## TreeTop

IndyTreeFan said:


> See the first publicly released renderings of the proposed Hulman Center expansion/renovation.  Looks nice enough.  But what are they gonna do with Larry???
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_04176653-36f6-56ea-93c8-f0557c474bed.html
> 
> I wish we could see what they have planned for the interior and arena space.  I guess that will come when the state approves the project.  Which, of course, means it will never come.  Sigh...
> 
> View attachment 1187View attachment 1188View attachment 1189



Since the university is moving forward with the HC project, I'm incredibly interested and anxious to see any new renderings that will be available.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

treeman said:


> Let's be honest with ourselves; Terre Haute, Bloomington, South Bend, Muncie, and Lafeyette are all pretty comparable as cities themselves (not the nicest places on earth). The difference is Lafeyette, Bloomington, and South Bend have a university with a HUGE enrollment or alumni with deep pockets that frequent the city and help clean up the area.



Additionally, those cities also have our alumni that frequent the city and spend their discretionary income on their collegiate sports teams, bars and restaurants.


----------



## BankShot

I agree w/ both ITF & 'Boda's earlier ideas. The key to both is the control of that "cookie jar," which TH history has shown not to be very compromising. Look at the recently proposed HC-Convention Center which floundered...just one example.

If you've been following the TH election nominees, there are a number of qualified and _comparatively_ youthful candidates throwing their hats in the ring for office, which is a sign of hope. If they can somehow surface above the inherent cronyism in the local electoral process, things MIGHT change. Don't hold your breath...


----------



## niklz62

I think Terre Haute is amazing when I compare it to 1997 Terre Haute.


----------



## meistro

sycamore tuff said:


> Terre Haute is a dump!  I live here but not in the city limits.  Just drive around most areas of town and you will see for yourself.  I have no idea what your statement about a mediocre university is all about.  If you don't like ISU then go cheer for some other college team and pretend you got your degree them there.  Complaints from non-fans are not appreciated.



Sure, there are areas in the city that are dumpy. Just like there are areas of Evansville, Indy and other cities. But, the downtown and areas around ISU and Union Hospital are getting better all the time. Just not as fast as we'd all like. Most of these dumps are low income people or slum rentals. These people need a place to live too. I don't know what the answer is, but I like Boda's ideas.


----------



## sycamore tuff

Most of the city is a dump.  There are very few areas within the city limits that are not dump.  Very few people have any pride in their dwelling.  It may be a result of not actually owning the properties.  I am not a big fan of heavy handed regulations by government at any level and I believe Bloomington has taken it too far.  That being said, Terre haute may need to adopt some of the types of codes bloomington has in order to force landlords to keep their rentals to a level much higher than is presently the norm.  Clean the city up one parcel at a time and then maybe companies might consider doing business in the area or having a gathering at a convention center.


----------



## BankShot

Here's a positive example of the current TH City Council taking initiatives to "reform" local govt. leadership...Nasser, DeBaun & Nation are relatively young, and trying to make a difference:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_207317aa-e2d0-5140-a005-53b134dac9e1.html


----------



## Westbadenboy

*Hulman Center ? ? ?*

So for those around Terre Haute .....has anything actually happened construction wise at HC ?   

I heard JMV doing his show from there a week or so ago, but only caught the last couple of minutes -- what happened and was discussed ?


----------



## Southgrad07

Westbadenboy said:


> So for those around Terre Haute .....has anything actually happened construction wise at HC ?
> 
> I heard JMV doing his show from there a week or so ago, but only caught the last couple of minutes -- what happened and was discussed ?



Nope. Bid for the job is suppose to go out first week of May. Construction would not start until after college and HS graduations..So I'm guessing early June for major construction to start.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> So for those around Terre Haute .....has anything actually happened construction wise at HC ?
> 
> I heard JMV doing his show from there a week or so ago, but only caught the last couple of minutes -- what happened and was discussed ?



As far as I'm aware, the project has not started yet.


----------



## TreeTop

According to the following link, bid deadline is 5/31/18...

http://www.indianabids.com/governme...ana-state-university---purchasing-dept-31178/


----------



## Sycamore Proud

If the bidding is in process at this time, the plans for the final project must be completed and available.  So really, what do we know about the HC at completion?  Do we know seating capacity, suites, seating arrangement, Varsity Club provision--are any of these and other similar topics known?  Have I missed all of  this?  Have I missed final plans, working drawing, anything letting us know what the project will look like when finished??


----------



## IndyTreeFan

This looks like an updated rendering of the exterior of the new HC...nice...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> This looks like an updated rendering of the exterior of the new HC...nice...
> 
> 
> View attachment 1389



Sexy AF. 

Very appealing aesthetic. I hope this is what it looks like.


----------



## Southgrad07

Me likes the look of that..Got a link ??


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Southgrad07 said:


> Me likes the look of that..Got a link ??



Here's the link.  Nothing else looks updated in the description, but I'm pretty sure this is a new picture...

http://www.ratiodesign.com/project/indiana-state-university-hulman-center


----------



## BrokerZ

That looks GREAT on the outside.  I love the partial glass exterior with the banners showing and the actual warm lighting inside.  It also seems to make the Bird statue the focal point of the main entrance, which looks awesome.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

IndyTreeFan said:


> This looks like an updated rendering of the exterior of the new HC...nice...
> 
> 
> View attachment 1389



Holy shit ISU!  That's doing things the right way!!

Makes me excited to see the rest.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Holy shit ISU!  That's doing things the right way!!
> 
> Makes me excited to see the rest.



What are all the people outside the building doing?? Are they homeless??

It can’t be game night. I don’t see any IU, PU, ND or Luck Jerseys.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> What are all the people outside the building doing?? Are they homeless??


----------



## pbutler218

The outside rendering does look impressive!!


----------



## ISUCC

VERY nice! Gotta follow through and make sure it turns out like that, so done in 2 years?


----------



## eagletree

You can see all of the interior and exterior plans for the new renovated Hulman Center. They have been listed on line for about a week. The site is indiana state university planroom online.  It is a fantastic site that always shows every item that ISU is bidding. It currently also lists new wooden floors for the old arena. Renovation shows no suites in plan and the capacity and not decreased much.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

eagletree said:


> You can see all of the interior and exterior plans for the new renovated Hulman Center. They have been listed on line for about a week. The site is indiana state university planroom online.  It is a fantastic site that always shows every item that ISU is bidding. It currently also lists new wooden floors for the old arena. Renovation shows no suites in plan and the capacity and not decreased much.



Think they went up Monday. I checked for them last week when I was discussing this with some friends.

Glad they're out there now. I just spent 10 minutes taking a peek. Hopefully someone with a better understanding on reading them can point out the highlights.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

eagletree said:


> You can see all of the interior and exterior plans for the new renovated Hulman Center. They have been listed on line for about a week. The site is indiana state university planroom online.  It is a fantastic site that always shows every item that ISU is bidding. It currently also lists new wooden floors for the old arena. Renovation shows no suites in plan and the capacity and not decreased much.



I do see escalators to the upper level, and a "Champion's Club" on the concourse level on the 8th street side.  If that is similar to what they have in Purcell Pavilion at ND, I'm okay with that.  Looks to be that way.  Very nice addition.

A sideline lounge area on the west side, floor level.  Another nice addition.

Escalators, elevators, totally redone concession and restroom areas.  Nice.

I think this is going to be nice.  But they better have new, blue seats!!!


----------



## sycamore tuff

It is my understanding that the orange seats will be replaced.  The color they have selected is yellow.  This will save the University a lot of money since they won't have to replace all of them.  I don't remember anyone complaining about the yellow seats.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

sycamore tuff said:


> It is my understanding that the orange seats will be replaced.  The color they have selected is yellow.  This will save the University a lot of money since they won't have to replace all of them.  I don't remember anyone complaining about the yellow seats.



LOL... Clink would be blamed and ran out of town so fast.

Anecdotally, the first time I ever met him at an Indy event, he promised a couple of us that all seats would be blue.


----------



## niklz62

Jason Svoboda said:


> LOL... Clink would be blamed and ran out of town so fast.
> 
> Anecdotally, the first time I ever met him at an Indy event, he promised a couple of us that all seats would be blue.



I heard a few games per year they would bring out the black seats to match our alternative jersey


----------



## BrokerZ

sycamore tuff said:


> It is my understanding that the orange seats will be replaced.  The color they have selected is yellow.  This will save the University a lot of money since they won't have to replace all of them.  I don't remember anyone complaining about the yellow seats.



I'm going to go ahead and send my sarcasm meter in for a tune-up because it took me about 3-4 reads to realize you are joking.







Please tell me you're joking.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

BrokerZ said:


> I'm going to go ahead and send my sarcasm meter in for a tune-up because it took me about 3-4 reads to realize you are joking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me you're joking.



Your meter doesn't need a tune up.  It's just part and parcel of being an ISU fan.  ISU does stuff like that all the time.  Unfortunately...:thumbsdown:


----------



## niklz62

Has anyone seen if the ceiling is going to be high enough so we dont hit it on long 3pt shots?


----------



## Westbadenboy

Should not be a problem since Harry Morgan graduated


----------



## TreeTop

Westbadenboy said:


> Should not be a problem since Harry Morgan graduated



NIKLZ62 is referring to Neese's range...and I bet Barnes extends his range too.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> NIKLZ62 is referring to Neese's range...and I bet Barnes extends his range too.



I believe statistics have shown that the higher your arc from deep, the lower percentage you shoot.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> I believe statistics have shown that the higher your arc from deep, the lower percentage you shoot.



Rick Mount is going to come slap you in the face for that comment.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Rick Mount is going to come slap you in the face for that comment.



If his slap is arched, I'll have plenty of time to get out of the way. 

I can't remember the name of the system, but this was extensively studied. I think it was Noah, which was corny but that is sticking with me for some reason. I remember reading about it falling down a rabbit hole on Reddit about three point shooting taking over the game. I believe the crux of everything was that 45 degrees was the optimal arc for all shots. 

But it has been a couple years and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.


----------



## niklz62

Our baseball throws at the end of 95% of our games that we are losing by a couple points could be hurt by the lower ceilings too


----------



## Southgrad07

Just some perspective on where the 50 mil dollar renovation and reduced 9200 seat arena will put us in the valley facilities wise..

*Missouri State*-JQH arena built brand new in 2008. 67 mil (76 mil today) and is 11,000 seats
*Northern Iowa*-McLeod Center built brand new in 2006. 26 mil (31.5 today) and is 7,000 seats
*Loyola*- Gentile Arena, they renovated a 15 year old building in 2011. 15 mil (17 today) and is 5,000 seats
*Drake*-Knapp Center was built in 1992 for 12.5 mil (22 today) and is 7,000 seats
*Southern Illinois*- SIU Arena was renovated in 2011. 30 mil (33 today) and is 8,500 seats
*Illinois State*- Redbird Arena built in 1989. 17.5 mil (35 today) and is 10,200 seats
*Evansville*- Ford Center was built in 2011. 127.5 mil and is 10,000 seats
*Valpo*-athletics-Recreation center was built in 1984. 7.25 mil (17 today) and has 5,000 seats
*Bradley*-Carver Arena/Peoria Civic Center renovated in 2007 (not sure if all or any was to the actual arena?? I went there Odum's senior year and nothing looked freshly done in the bball arena). 55 mil (69 today) and 10,000 seats


----------



## Gotta Hav

Has anyone else heard besides me, that the H.C. renovation is now a NO GO?

There's only been ONE BID for $50 million, and someone has determined separately that the HC roof is shot.  And the bid doesn't include the roof.


----------



## pbutler218

Gotta Hav said:


> Has anyone else heard besides me, that the H.C. renovation is now a NO GO?
> 
> There's only been ONE BID for $50 million, and someone has determined separately that the HC roof is shot.  And the bid doesn't include the roof.


Haven't heard this and I live local. I haven't seen any activity around there so it has had me wondering. I'm sure Golden will investigate once he sees this.


----------



## treeman

Gotta Hav said:


> Has anyone else heard besides me, that the H.C. renovation is now a NO GO?



If true, this could be an all-time low for me as a Sycamore fan


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Gotta Hav said:


> Has anyone else heard besides me, that the H.C. renovation is now a NO GO?
> 
> There's only been ONE BID for $50 million, and someone has determined separately that the HC roof is shot.  And the bid doesn't include the roof.




Given the age of the HC, I find it almost totally unbelievable that a new roof was not part of the original project.  It just doesn't make sense to do it anyother way.


----------



## SycfromBirth

Gotta Hav said:


> Has anyone else heard besides me, that the H.C. renovation is now a NO GO?
> 
> There's only been ONE BID for $50 million, and someone has determined separately that the HC roof is shot.  And the bid doesn't include the roof.



Any idea who the bidder was?

Part of the problem with the timing of the project is the construction market is already flush with projects (at least in central Indiana).  The contractor(s) bidding the job are likely only going to bid with a number that has a nice margin if they are going to take on another project.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Holy Crap !  I'd have thought this was all already done !  Thought construction was suppose to be starting NOW ? ? ?


----------



## bluestreak

Hey Gotta Hav... where did you hear this? I have searched and can't find any mention of a problem anywhere. Who is the "someone"? can you say.. what is your opinion on the validity of the info?

thanks


----------



## Gotta Hav

bluestreak said:


> Hey Gotta Hav... where did you hear this? I have searched and can't find any mention of a problem anywhere. Who is the "someone"? can you say.. what is your opinion on the validity of the info?
> 
> thanks



The project was supposed to start before graduation originally, but then it got put back until after graduation. My source, is a Terre Haute area legislator. There was only one bid and it came in over $20 million higher than the budget. Indiana State is going to have to find the money somewhere to make up the budget loss. The project has yet to start, and it’s way behind schedule. - From my "Source"...

That's all I have for now.  Regardless, like someone else said, this is the most disappointing news to hear about ISU sports and it's impact on Men and Women's Basketball...since, well there isn't anything more disappointing than this.

.


----------



## TreeTop

Here's something (dated 4/5/18)...

https://www.indstateplanroom.com/jo...ovation-expansion-bid-b0025900/?preview=77702


----------



## Bally #50

TreeTop said:


> Here's something (dated 4/5/18)...
> 
> https://www.indstateplanroom.com/jo...ovation-expansion-bid-b0025900/?preview=77702



Great find, TREETOP. Of course, most, if not all of us, are NOT architects, but if I am reading it correctly, it appears they have three suites (or more) in lieu of seats in that area and I think most of us would agree with that, and some larger add-ons to the concourses on both ends, which also makes a lot of sense. Any of you see something you don't like or anything major that I am missing? I just glad it's out so we can enlarge the drawings and see what to expect. From what I heard a while back, they are right on schedule for the plans. Look forward to hearing from some of you that can read this stuff intelligently.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Bally #50 said:


> Great find, TREETOP. Of course, most, if not all of us, are NOT architects, but if I am reading it correctly, it appears they have three suites (or more) in lieu of seats in that area and I think most of us would agree with that, and some larger add-ons to the concourses on both ends, which also makes a lot of sense. Any of you see something you don't like or anything major that I am missing? I just glad it's out so we can enlarge the drawings and see what to expect. From what I heard a while back, they are right on schedule for the plans. Look forward to hearing from some of you that can read this stuff intelligently.



What I got out of the plans:

1.  Taking out some seats on the southwest corner to provide a view into the arena from the street
2.  Taking out some seats at concourse level in the middle on the press box side to create a “Champions Club,” much like what they have in Purcell Pavilion at Notre Dame
3.  Taking out some low seats on the same side to create a Varsity Club Lounge at mid-court - views on to court from Varsity Club room
4.  Escalators to court level
5.  Concession stands at court level
6.  Elevators to the upper level
7.  New ESPN control room at court level
8.  Totally new exterior which should look AWESOME
9.  Totally new and relocated concessions on the outer concourse
10. New restroom facilities

Yeah, I spent an entire evening looking through these. I can’t really read blueprints, but that’s what I got from them.


----------



## JamesHat

The plans state the existing lighting in the arena is to remain however, there is an alternate bid section (pg 208, vol 2) for Ephesus LED sports lighting with RGBA for color changing effects with DMX control.  Those are state of the art for sportslighting and the gold standard currently on the market.  Hopefully we get those or something similar, should help with fan experience.


----------



## SycfromBirth

Looks like they received bids from 4 different contractors which included several alternative options in addition to the "base" bids.

https://www.indstateplanroom.com/preview/1620/6211/80042


----------



## Southgrad07

So 54 and some change to have all the alternates?  Clink needs to work some magic there and start a fundraiser. Easier to sell to people when they know exactly what their money is going toward. We HAVE to get both the lighting packages which would put us a little under 49.5 mil..I think we also have to get the champions club and home locker rooms. That puts us just over 50 mil.. Does anyone know if we are trying to sell naming rights like Evansville did??

 If it was me though I'd sink the ISU money into the less glamorous items on that list and then fundraiser items like home locker rooms and suites..The public is more likely to open their wallets for things like that imo...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Southgrad07 said:


> So 54 and some change to have all the alternates?  Clink needs to work some magic there and start a fundraiser. Easier to sell to people when they know exactly what their money is going toward. We HAVE to get both the lighting packages which would put us a little under 49.5 mil..I think we also have to get the champions club and home locker rooms. That puts us just over 50 mil.. Does anyone know if we are trying to sell naming rights like Evansville did??
> 
> If it was me though I'd sink the ISU money into the less glamorous items on that list and then fundraiser items like home locker rooms and suites..The public is more likely to open their wallets for things like that imo...



Agreed on everything.

Bottom line is you get the entire project done by whatever means necessary. You don't get gifted a portion of the cash so you had damn well better find a way to make it happen.


----------



## Blue Streaker

Did I read somewhere that they would bond any additional expense needed to get the project done.  I agree that you get one chance to do this right for the longest length of time.  Do it right and spend the extra money now instead of trying to additional upgrades later.  The money that you might spend on bond financing would likely be the same as increased cost by doing the same upgrade as a stand-alone construction event in the future.


----------



## landrus13

Any news on if this is still going on as planned? Or is the project no longer happening?


----------



## Southgrad07

I'm puzzled as to why people think this is not happening? Maybe i'm missing something or somebody has some info I don't..But the bid table attached had the bid day on the 24th of May. So one week later you would be pushing it for construction to begin on a project of this scale....However, the bigger reason i'm not surprised construction is not underway is because it wasn't set to begin anyways until high school commencement ceremonies took place there.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Still think my question is valid ---- if actual work was to begin right after ISU and/or high school commencements ......if you want guys in hard hats doing stuff, I'd think you'd have wanted to have bids accepted, papers signed, assembling equipment, orders placed, etc. weeks ago.

Now we're into June and none of the above ? ? ?


----------



## niklz62

Westbadenboy said:


> Still think my question is valid ---- if actual work was to begin right after ISU and/or high school commencements ......if you want guys in hard hats doing stuff, I'd think you'd have wanted to have bids accepted, papers signed, assembling equipment, orders placed, etc. weeks ago.
> 
> Now we're into June and none of the above ? ? ?



Starting after graduations and wont start until after graduations can have different time meanings.   that's my guess


----------



## IndyTreeFan

It is my understanding that demolition work is scheduled to begin next week, after all the high schools have had their commencement ceremonies.


----------



## Daveinth

http://www.tribstar.com/news/bids-come-in-high-on-hulman-center-renovation/article_616023a4-6905-11e8-ab8e-ff3e46a3b2f8.html


----------



## Southgrad07

From what I've gathered there are a multitude of things at play here..First off when this thing was originally granted things like copper wire, steel, etc were at a lower price compared to the present...On a massive rebuild that is not a little thing to look at...Second off many contractors/sub contractors were hesitant on this thing due to it being in phases and taking so long...You are talking about tying up bond money, man power, etc for long periods of time with a lot of variables and moving parts...And as a consequence of this you didn't get everyone in the area and even out of town for that matter going all in on this thing..From what I understand Hannig went after it with a pretty honest number...But what if you had the adequate sub contracting competition from plumbing, electrical, etc to keep the overall bid number lower for the GC's like Hannig ? 

Finally, this project was partly bid high because they aren't just shutting the facility down and insisted on using it during construction... It would be a HUGE savings on the overall cost if they would just shut it down and let constant construction take place. Would it mean playing our games at Rose or the arena for a year? Yep and that would suck..But long term you are saving millions of dollars and thus would have the bells and whistles to benefit the program long term...Gotta see the forest through the trees ISU :facepalm:


----------



## Gotta Hav

Southgrad07 said:


> So 54 and some change to have all the alternates?  Clink needs to work some magic there and start a fundraiser. Easier to sell to people when they know exactly what their money is going toward. We HAVE to get both the lighting packages which would put us a little under 49.5 mil..I think we also have to get the champions club and home locker rooms. That puts us just over 50 mil.. Does anyone know if we are trying to sell naming rights like Evansville did??
> 
> If it was me though I'd sink the ISU money into the less glamorous items on that list and then fundraiser items like home locker rooms and suites..The public is more likely to open their wallets for things like that imo...



When the ISU Trustees prepare and commit to a BOND SALE, let's just hope that it's not half-assed and that they do a bond that covers the $16.5 Million dollar difference between the $54 Million dollars referenced here (or whatever top $ amount is needed) and the guaranteed $37.5 Million from the State.

There's only one chance to do this right, not a 2nd.


----------



## southernindianaballer

You guys know more about this than I do.  What about a possible sponsorship/naming rights deal with Genesco/Lids?  Founder and person running it is an ISU graduate.  It is, however, publicly traded.... but Lids does not have their name on any venues I am aware of.....  probably low chance of this happening.


----------



## SycfromBirth

southernindianaballer said:


> You guys know more about this than I do.  What about a possible sponsorship/naming rights deal with Genesco/Lids?  Founder and person running it is an ISU graduate.  It is, however, publicly traded.... but Lids does not have their name on any venues I am aware of.....  probably low chance of this happening.



Not sure if they contractually have to stick with the "Hulman" name due to the original funding structure for the building.  Hulman & Co., is across the street after all.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Sooooo……..heading into July ---- is ANYTHING being done at Hulman Center ? ? ?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Westbadenboy said:


> Sooooo……..heading into July ---- is ANYTHING being done at Hulman Center ? ? ?



Nope... Might as well wait until March and start construction at the conclusion of the season at this point. Typical.


----------



## Blue Streaker

The bids came in over $5,000,0000 over the estimated costs so it is going out for rebid later this summer.  I think there was an article in the TribStar.  I honestly do not think anything will be done at this point until after commencement in May 2019.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Could it be time to rethink the total project?  Spend 40 million of a necessities update to the HC and hold out 10 million as seed money for a new stadium on the Wabash?  I know, that would be nearly impossible because of the way the state money was appropriated, but I can't help but wonder what if?.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

They should tear down Hulman Center and take $50M and build a new arena.  And then go after the university employees who allowed a major asset to fall into disrepair over the span of many years. 

I'm sure BankShot would have an opinion on who let this happen... :lol:


----------



## bluestreak

I really don't think they can afford to wait. Steel prices have gone through the roof - no pun intended. I know I had to put off gutter repairs on one of my barns because the construction company couldn't get the materials at the bid price.


----------



## BrokerZ

I'm no Indiana government expert, but I'm guessing the grant money we're receiving isn't just some golden ticket we can cash in whenever we want.  It has to be built into the current budget, and I highly doubt the state would just send us a check and let us sit on it for however long we need to.

Otherwise, I don't really care how long this takes to get started as long as they get it right.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

BrokerZ said:


> I'm no Indiana government expert, but I'm guessing the grant money we're receiving isn't just some golden ticket we can cash in whenever we want.  It has to be built into the current budget, and I highly doubt the state would just send us a check and let us sit on it for however long we need to.
> 
> Otherwise, I don't really care how long this takes to get started as long as they get it right.




I think you pretty much have it right.


----------



## meistro

Blue Streaker said:


> The bids came in over $5,000,0000 over the estimated costs so it is going out for rebid later this summer.  I think there was an article in the TribStar.  I honestly do not think anything will be done at this point until after commencement in May 2019.



From what I heard today, you're correct. It's being rebid in September with construction next spring. That's assuming it comes in within budget. Which, in our current economy, isn't a guarantee. It's quite the cluster and could get worse. It really is a shame that past administrations let it fall into such disrepair and with no plan to fix it.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

meistro said:


> From what I heard today, you're correct. It's being rebid in September with construction next spring. That's assuming it comes in within budget. Which, in our current economy, isn't a guarantee. It's quite the cluster and could get worse. *It really is a shame that past administrations let it fall into such disrepair and with no plan to fix it.*



Ain't dat da truff.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

This continues to be an absolute shit show by Indiana State... 

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_07d54fcd-3340-5f89-a4a7-a238654be4e4.html

Someone needs to help me - the start of this thread says the post was made in 2015, is that correct? We're going on 4 years + of talking about this and they have yet another delay... You have got to be kidding me. A $43 million project and were talking about the bids being $5 million over expected... Are we really making excuses for higher than anticipated steel prices. Give me a break. These guys have had years to make sure this was done right and they still can't figure it out. 

For you people on here that think a football stadium will EVER be built at Indiana State - please pay attention. We're talking about a $43 to $50 million project and they can't even figure out what the hell is going on. They had bids back for this project over a month ago and now the rebid isn't taking place until early fall. Don't talk to me about a football stadium - save it. 

You'll remember in August 2017 when Bradley pulled the plug on the Convention Center project. Total smear campaign from both sides via local media outlets and here we are a year later and August 2018 and we basically will be in the same place we were a year ago. Meanwhile - the momentum on the convention center (like or hate it) seems to be progressing nicely without the help of Indiana State. Any praise Bradley got (on this forum) for his handling of that situation was simply people afraid to call it what it was in his closing days here.


----------



## shootingsycamore

The June 20th edition of the Tribune Star had an interesting article about the convention center.


----------



## bent20

Found this line from the Tribstar article above interesting:

"Officials attributed the high bids to a strong economy and a lot of construction underway in the area."

Most of the new construction, from what I gather, is either at ISU, or is downtown housing also attributable to ISU.

http://www.ibrc.indiana.edu/ibr/2017/outlook/terrehaute.html

So I guess that means the Hulman Center project being stalled is partially due to the university's recent success in terms of enrollment and other improvements. However, you could also argue it's a case of not prioritizing the project.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

bent20 said:


> Found this line from the Tribstar article above interesting:
> 
> "Officials attributed the high bids to a strong economy and a lot of construction underway in the area."
> 
> Most of the new construction, from what I gather, is either at ISU, or is downtown housing also attributable to ISU.
> 
> http://www.ibrc.indiana.edu/ibr/2017/outlook/terrehaute.html
> 
> So I guess that means the Hulman Center project being stalled is partially due to the university's recent success in terms of enrollment and other improvements. However, you could also argue it's a case of not prioritizing the project.



You haven't gathered much - ISU and hosing projects are not really the only thing going on. Just so were clear. 

In the process of building a new auto dealership in southern Vigo. A new turkey processing facility in southern Vigo industrial park. A new Menards about to start in southern Vigo. A new hotel out east. A new grocery out east and another that just opened down south. A new gas station/resturant recently opened on south side. A new Riddell Bank branch in Vigo Co. in the process of building a new facility.


----------



## bent20

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You haven't gathered much - ISU and hosing projects are not really the only thing going on. Just so were clear.
> 
> In the process of building a new auto dealership in southern Vigo. A new turkey processing facility in southern Vigo industrial park. A new Menards about to start in southern Vigo. A new hotel out east. A new grocery out east and another that just opened down south. A new gas station/resturant recently opened on south side. A new Riddell Bank branch in Vigo Co. in the process of building a new facility.



Good to know. And thanks for reminding me why I don't post much here anymore.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

bent20 said:


> Good to know. And thanks for reminding me why I don't post much here anymore.



I was simply pointing out that quite a lot is going on construction wise in town. 

After all these years sorry you haven’t figured out how to read around the not so insulting verbiage... I really didn’t intend to upset you. Just seemed a bit misinformed.  

Sorry that hurt your feelings.


----------



## niklz62

are those the kind of projects that are competing with the HC renovation?


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

niklz62 said:


> are those the kind of projects that are competing with the HC renovation?



That’s quite a bit of activity for this area. But no - ISU is competing against its self on the HC reno.


----------



## Bally #50

niklz62 said:


> are those the kind of projects that are competing with the HC renovation?



A steady increase in biddable projects does nothing but IMPROVE pricing due to competition. Volume creates volume. It's great to see the city finally breaking out of an undeserved slump, and my guess is that the Hulman Center Project as well as the positive kick that Indiana State has given to Terre Haute and it's economy, is finally starting to payoff. Delays in Hulman Center work should be something we need to pay attention to but it is pretty normal on a project as complex as that is, and may well have a tie in to the enormous task of re-working any future athletic events, as well as social and concert business scheduled BEFORE the state approval. Remember at one time they actually said they would NOT play home games during the reconstruction. By now, they might have figured, that ain't gonna work.


----------



## bluebill

On a positive note Bally we have a young man working through the political maze here that is a very positive thinker 'and doer', that I think will some day be out mayor.   He comes from the Kearns 'a political family', but has the unique trait of honesty it seems.  If he moves up it will be a positive thing for our fine city.  Not my party, but a good prospect that will help city/ISU projects.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

bluebill said:


> On a positive note Bally we have a young man working through the political maze here that is a very positive thinker 'and doer', that I think will some day be out mayor.   He comes from the Kearns 'a political family', but has the unique trait of honesty it seems.  If he moves up it will be a positive thing for our fine city.  Not my party, but a good prospect that will help city/ISU projects.



I'm not sure that Brendan Kearns has any mayoral aspirations at this time - although I think he would do very well. From my conversations with him in the last year I don't get the impression that is something that he's planning for. Perhaps things have changed... He's certainly been willing to get in and mix it up and is quite candid - I will say he seems to have quieted down a bit in the last 6 months - he has some people pretty upset with him.


----------



## bluebill

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I'm not sure that Brendan Kearns has any mayoral aspirations at this time - although I think he would do very well. From my conversations with him in the last year I don't get the impression that is something that he's planning for. Perhaps things have changed... He's certainly been willing to get in and mix it up and is quite candid - I will say he seems to have quieted down a bit in the last 6 months - he has some people pretty upset with him.



I agree SSM, and not being a close friend I just observe that Brendan does not seek power but it falls in his favor, and that is what makes him attractive.  Don't know if he is totally on board with this project as planed.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Ya'all are really going to enjoy the new renderings that contractors are currently bidding on... At least based on what I have heard, I haven't seen them for myself. 

The extended - big glass entrance. Ya - it's gone. 

The open concourse - where you can see the floor from just walking around. Ya - it's gone. 

Enjoy it! Was a lot of blame to go around but for those of you that defended then President Bradley on this deal you were very wrong. He did us no favors in blowing up that deal and then getting involved in a media pissing match. Gibson was the wrong guy to get in that sort of a match with - Indiana State will come out looking silly once again.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Ya'all are really going to enjoy the new renderings that contractors are currently bidding on... At least based on what I have heard, I haven't seen them for myself.
> 
> The extended - big glass entrance. Ya - it's gone.
> 
> The open concourse - where you can see the floor from just walking around. Ya - it's gone.
> 
> Enjoy it! Was a lot of blame to go around but for those of you that defended then President Bradley on this deal you were very wrong. He did us no favors in blowing up that deal and then getting involved in a media pissing match. Gibson was the wrong guy to get in that sort of a match with - Indiana State will come out looking silly once again.



So in other words, lipstick on a pig.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> So in other words, lipstick on a pig.



Sad man. Really sad.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Sad man. Really sad.



Indiana State is the only school that would go out of their way to fuck up free money. I'm convinced of it.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> The thing about it is - this has ramifications outside of just the Hulman Center and convention center. Bradley will not be residing in Terre Haute after he leaves - I'm sure he wishes us nothing but the bust but sure he could care less if the convention center gets done or not. He washed his hands of it - that is what happened.
> 
> What he fails to realize (I'm sure he realized it but didn't care) in doing so he just created a divide between the Terre Haute Convention & Visitors Bureau (aka Greg Gibson & Dave Patterson). Why is that important in the grand scheme of things? For 1 Greg Gibson has more money and clout than anyone in this city and it aint even close. For two those guys have both done a lot for Indiana State - I could name several but for starters the LaVern Gibson Cross Country Course wouldn't exist without them (throw in John McNichols obviously).
> 
> You want to go down that road by placing this at the feet of the city? The county? The THCVB? Be my guest - but when things go wrong maybe you should look in the mirror. The city/county can only raise taxes so much. The THCVB can only raise hotel/food/beverage tax so much. This is an Indiana State alumni/donor/foundation etc. etc. etc. problem and until you fix it we will continue to have shit facilities. You had the chance to create something beautiful for the University and downtown Terre Haute to be proud of and you shit the bed. All because they couldn't reach out a single donor (or multiple for that matter) or business for naming rights?? You've got to be kidding me.
> 
> Anything short of what was proposed is a failure in my mind. I rest.



My post from 8/22/2017 - nearly a year ago. Not only has the project not started but they have chopped the plans up multiple times over and now we aint getting what we had hoped and dreamed we would get.


----------



## TreeTop

Things like this make me wanna be a fair-weathered fan.


----------



## Southgrad07

Yeah last I had heard they wanted to shave 10-12 million off of the low bid last time..What are you suppose to do with that as an architect?? lol The last 3+ years of this fiasco is the perfect example of the ineptitude that has and is plaguing ISU from the top down when it comes to athletics.. The university hasn't prioritized MBB the way it should have over the past 30 years and this is the result of that..

I had earmarked a decent chunk of money  to give towards the project when/if they ever fundraised for it..But at this point I have far better ways to blow money than to give it to the idiots driving this train.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

Southgrad07 said:


> Yeah last I had heard they wanted to shave 10-12 million off of the low bid last time..What are you suppose to do with that as an architect?? lol The last 3+ years of this fiasco is the perfect example of the ineptitude that has and is plaguing ISU from the top down when it comes to athletics.. The university hasn't prioritized MBB the way it should have over the past 30 years and this is the result of that..
> 
> I had earmarked a decent chunk of money  to give towards the project when/if they ever fundraised for it..But at this point I have far better ways to blow money than to give it to the idiots driving this train.



Seriously though if you are in need of money as a university, why do you not seek donations. I understand we can donate at anytime, but how has there not been a specific campaign for “the Hulman Center project.”


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> Seriously though if you are in need of money as a university, why do you not seek donations. I understand we can donate at anytime, but how has there not been a specific campaign for “the Hulman Center project.”



In other words...

Hi, I’m Andrew and I support a clueless university.


----------



## Southgrad07

I think the sad bottom line is most of the people "in charge" for the last 20+ years have either just been collecting a government check or been enthusiastic, yet very flawed..We've had some quality ppl here and there..But for the most part it's a big shit show. But to your point they've known about this project for how long and did nothing with it??...

Btw for those of u who think this isn't a current adm. problem as well..Clinks first fundraising program had nothing specifically to do with its "flagship" program and nothing has came out since...Big mistake https://gosycamores.com/news/2017/5/16/sycamores-unveil-elevate-campaign.aspx


----------



## sycamore tuff

I applaud the University for not letting the contractors get away with writing their own checks.  The only thing I really care about is having a winning team.  Hulman Center is not going to affect whether or not we have one.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

With proper leadership, planning and execution we could have gotten this versions of the Hulman Center and have 10 to 12 million as seed money for a new stadium by the river or significant upgrades to Memorial Stadium.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

I'm just glad we get to play in the Hulman Center this year. I really don't care about the renovation at all. Having blue seats in the upper level would make the place look better, along with a true bowl in the lower level. Besides that, there's really nothing about the renovation that actually excites me.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Sycamorefan96 said:


> I'm just glad we get to play in the Hulman Center this year. I really don't care about the renovation at all. Having blue seats in the upper level would make the place look better, along with a true bowl in the lower level. Besides that, there's really nothing about the renovation that actually excites me.




This fan can't agree with your feelings.  Structure repairs are needed along with mechanicals--electrical, plumbing, HVAC, lighting and sound.  Much of the money should be spent on things the average fan will never notice.  Creature comforts should be next--all locker room facilities, easy to reach elevators and handicapped accessibility, rails on all stairs and concessions.  Some, but not all of these items will also allow improvement on appearance.  When does it need to be completed?  How about yesterday?   When you have 55+ years dealing with IS you soon learned not to take things for granted.  I would like to visit the completed project while I still am able!


----------



## shootingsycamore

Southgrad07 said:


> Yeah last I had heard they wanted to shave 10-12 million off of the low bid last time..What are you suppose to do with that as an architect?? lol The last 3+ years of this fiasco is the perfect example of the ineptitude that has and is plaguing ISU from the top down when it comes to athletics.. The university hasn't prioritized MBB the way it should have over the past 30 years and this is the result of that..
> 
> I had earmarked a decent chunk of money  to give towards the project when/if they ever fundraised for it..But at this point I have far better ways to blow money than to give it to the idiots driving this train.



I checked the 1970 Centennial edition of the "Sycamore" yearbook. In it they had architects renderings of recently constructed or to be constructed buildings on campus. Statesmen Towers, Memorial Stadium etc. In it was an architects rendering of Hulman Center. It looked quite nice and totally different from the final product. One can hope that this time the project gets properly funded and completed. The last time the budget shortfall produced a building that looks like a cross between a pole barn and an airplane hanger. Hopefully that will be rectified.


----------



## Bally #50

shootingsycamore said:


> I checked the 1970 Centennial edition of the "Sycamore" yearbook. In it they had architects renderings of recently constructed or to be constructed buildings on campus. Statesmen Towers, Memorial Stadium etc. In it was an architects rendering of Hulman Center. It looked quite nice and totally different from the final product. One can hope that this time the project gets properly funded and completed. The last time the budget shortfall produced a building that looks like a cross between a pole barn and an airplane hanger. Hopefully that will be rectified.



SS, I remember that rendering that President Rankin and the BOT decided to send it back and cut corners. As it was called then, the Hulman Civic-University Center turned out pretty damn well and endured more than 40 years. I know that some of you just pop on here to muddy the water and add your stink of the week but yes, the time is dragging on and nothing has been started. Since they decided to not eliminate home games and since they have concerts to reschedule or whatever, it isn't going to start until they know what they are doing with events and have plans that WORK for the university and the fans. My feeling is that they could build the Barclays Center and you nay-sayers would be pissed about something. Don't forget that we have a new (sports loving) president that doesn't want to screw up her first project. I am really pissed that it is dragging on too, but when it is finished I imagine that most of us will be happy. 

Funny I wrote THREE much different threads on my i-Phone last night sitting in bed at 12:30 am and out of nowhere, I swore Jason was sitting at home with the big red button laughing out loud and _poof_, he DELETED them. Seriously, using an i-Phone with this Sycamore Pride is like a blind man doing a corn maize. I know it was probably me but seriously, an hours worth of nastiness just disappears? Now that's weird. So put up with my old school fluff today, I am leaving to go watch the LPGA ladies play some golf. Note: OMG, I am aging. I just was told that is NEXT week. Shit, SSOM, I must REALLY be out of touch! P.S. Where was that "Restore Auto-Saved Content" button last night!!!


----------



## shootingsycamore

Bally #50 said:


> SS, I remember that rendering that President Rankin and the BOT decided to send it back and cut corners. As it was called then, the Hulman Civic-University Center turned out pretty damn well and endured more than 40 years. I know that some of you just pop on here to muddy the water and add your stink of the week but yes, the time is dragging on and nothing has been started. Since they decided to not eliminate home games and since they have concerts to reschedule or whatever, it isn't going to start until they know what they are doing with events and have plans that WORK for the university and the fans. My feeling is that they could build the Barclays Center and you nay-sayers would be pissed about something. Don't forget that we have a new (sports loving) president that doesn't want to screw up her first project. I am really pissed that it is dragging on too, but when it is finished I imagine that most of us will be happy.
> 
> Funny I wrote THREE much different threads on my i-Phone last night sitting in bed at 12:30 am and out of nowhere, I swore Jason was sitting at home with the big red button laughing out loud and _poof_, he DELETED them. Seriously, using an i-Phone with this Sycamore Pride is like a blind man doing a corn maize. I know it was probably me but seriously, an hours worth of nastiness just disappears? Now that's weird. So put up with my old school fluff today, I am leaving to go watch the LPGA ladies play some golf. Note: OMG, I am aging. I just was told that is NEXT week. Shit, SSOM, I must REALLY be out of touch! P.S. Where was that "Restore Auto-Saved Content" button last night!!!



Hulman Center has served the community well since it's opening. Having attended all the home B'ball games while living in Terre Haute from 1974 through the last Bird home game there isn't a bad seat in the house. That from having sat in the lower bowl to temporary seating in the last row of the upper bowl. My commentary is not to criticize the overall structure nor it's functionality. Buildings such as Hulman Center often represent the best of the community and allude to civic pride. When opened no one thought of the exterior just the product inside and moving out of the old gym. Over time architectural styles change and with the advent of newer arenas comparisons will arise. There is an opportunity to reconfigure the structure and do it right. All anyone can hope for is that it's done with foresight and looking to the next 40 + years.


----------



## Fiji Bill 72

shootingsycamore said:


> Hulman Center has served the community well since it's opening. Having attended all the home B'ball games while living in Terre Haute from 1974 through the last Bird home game there isn't a bad seat in the house. That from having sat in the lower bowl to temporary seating in the last row of the upper bowl. My commentary is not to criticize the overall structure nor it's functionality. Buildings such as Hulman Center often represent the best of the community and allude to civic pride. When opened no one thought of the exterior just the product inside and moving out of the old gym. Over time architectural styles change and with the advent of newer arenas comparisons will arise. There is an opportunity to reconfigure the structure and do it right. All anyone can hope for is that it's done with foresight and looking to the next 40 + years.



I was on the yearbook staff when this was published. My understanding is they had to redesign Hulman Center because the city would not close the street.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

shootingsycamore said:


> I checked the 1970 Centennial edition of the "Sycamore" yearbook. In it they had architects renderings of recently constructed or to be constructed buildings on campus. Statesmen Towers, Memorial Stadium etc. In it was an architects rendering of Hulman Center. It looked quite nice and totally different from the final product. One can hope that this time the project gets properly funded and completed. The last time the budget shortfall produced a building that looks like a cross between a pole barn and an airplane hanger. Hopefully that will be rectified.



Can you post the picture?  That would be cool...


----------



## Bally #50

IndyTreeFan said:


> Can you post the picture?  That would be cool...



I've got it, I'll pull it out and post it. He's right, the street (and the money) were the main issue. Heard it directly from Alan Rankin. And by the way, Fiji Bill did a great job on that book~

One more thing...great to see some of you ol' timers on here. Sycamore Proud, where are you, we need you?


----------



## shootingsycamore

On an interesting side-note, the Tribune Star on 8/16/18 ran an article about the proposed TH Convention Center. I had to read it twice to make sure the location was as stated. It's going to be bounded by Wabash Ave on the south, Cherry St. on the North, 9th on the east and 7th. St on West, closing part of 8th St. Puts it across the street from Hulman Center.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

shootingsycamore said:


> On an interesting side-note, the Tribune Star on 8/16/18 ran an article about the proposed TH Convention Center. I had to read it twice to make sure the location was as stated. It's going to be bounded by Wabash Ave on the south, Cherry St. on the North, 9th on the east and 7th. St on West, closing part of 8th St. Puts it across the street from Hulman Center.



Correct. Copper Bar and what was the terminal will be gone. 

Possible new sports bar as part of this project or adjacent but adjoining hotel. 

What I’ve heard anyway. The speed at which this group has moved to get to this point tells you a lot about the Universities involvement in the original set up and who was to blame...


----------



## Chief_Quabachi

I don't blame the university whatsoever. How is Terre Haute going to pay for a convention center, a new jail, school modernization, etc. ?........


----------



## Southgrad07

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Correct. Copper Bar and what was the terminal will be gone.
> 
> Possible new sports bar as part of this project or adjacent but adjoining hotel.
> 
> What I’ve heard anyway. The speed at which this group has moved to get to this point tells you a lot about the Universities involvement in the original set up and who was to blame...



So will the copper bar relocate? Will be a shame if they don't. They have some good eats!


----------



## sycamore tuff

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Correct. Copper Bar and what was the terminal will be gone.
> 
> Possible new sports bar as part of this project or adjacent but adjoining hotel.
> 
> What I’ve heard anyway. The speed at which this group has moved to get to this point tells you a lot about the Universities involvement in the original set up and who was to blame...



Sounds like the locals wants to try and stick it to ISU by making them look bad.  If indeed they are going to shut down 8th street then that is the same dumb crap they did when Union Hospital was built.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Chief_Quabachi said:


> I don't blame the university whatsoever. How is Terre Haute going to pay for a convention center, a new jail, school modernization, etc. ?........



Of course not - because no matter what some of you will never see fault in anything that the University does. 

Were not talking about the jail, high schools etc. You brought that up - not me. Don't bring that shit show into this discussion. 

This is a discussion about that convention center and the HC - nothing else. All of the money has already been allocated, all of the taxes have already been passed - the project is moving forward. Gibson is behind it and he's not going to let some ridiculousness get in the way of getting it done. Because of this project we're going to have some much needed additional parking downtown (parking garage)and potentially a new hotel. That entire block is going to be reformed just like much of downtown was reformed when the Terre Haute House finally got torn down. 

So you can keep telling yourself what makes you feel better. You're protecting Indiana State which hasn't started a renovation of the HC after 3+ years of conversation, drawings, state committed funding, re-bid etc. etc. Please spare me. This thread was started in February 2015 with a rendering and all. This February - when basketball is finishing up will mark 4 years and construction is yet to begin. I can't help you if you can't see the problem with that.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Southgrad07 said:


> So will the copper bar relocate? Will be a shame if they don't. They have some good eats!



Copper is done.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamore tuff said:


> Sounds like the locals wants to try and stick it to ISU by making them look bad.  If indeed they are going to shut down 8th street then that is the same dumb crap they did when Union Hospital was built.



Because closing north 7th street should defiantly stand in the way of improving the quality and standard of healthcare in the Wabash Valley. Yeah that was a totally dumb move... People wonder why Terre Haute is stuck in neutral - because it's nearly impossible to get anything done. You're bringing up 7th street when Union Hospital built a $180 million state-of-the-art healthcare facility?? 

I happened to be employed at that hospital at that time and many years after. I can assure you that a new facility needed to built. If they could go back and do it over they probably wouldn't have built such a large facility - as I'm not sure they've ever reached capacity since it was built. But better be below capacity than have patients waiting in hall beds for a room to open up as it was prior to them building that facility.


----------



## Chief_Quabachi

SSOM, may I suggest "Win Friends & Influence People - By Dale Carnegie"......just sayin'.:biggrin:


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Chief_Quabachi said:


> SSOM, may I suggest "Win Friends & Influence People - By Dale Carnegie"......just sayin'.:biggrin:



I mean - I'm calling it the way it is Chief. I can't sugar coat it for you. If you think my frustration is with you then your sorely mistake about that too. I'm frustrated with Indiana State for this taking so damn long and to learn recently that the project will be a shell of what it was once said it was going to look like is awfully disappointing. I can't just shut that emotion off man - I wish I could. 

Blaming everything on the city and the finances of the city is a cop out and a lot of people including President Bradley used that to justify this project not being done right the first time. The fact of the matter is the city has been behind this project from the word "Go". No one can ignore the financial issues this city has had and many like cities across Indiana. At least they've tried to keep moving things forward and tried to be as progressive as possible to get behind who ever was able to get a convention center project done. 

Thanks for the book referral - I will check it out. Sometimes a passionate post is an offensive post - I can't always just bite my tongue.


----------



## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Of course not - because no matter what some of you will never see fault in anything that the University does.
> 
> Were not talking about the jail, high schools etc. You brought that up - not me. Don't bring that shit show into this discussion.
> 
> This is a discussion about that convention center and the HC - nothing else. All of the money has already been allocated, all of the taxes have already been passed - the project is moving forward. Gibson is behind it and he's not going to let some ridiculousness get in the way of getting it done. Because of this project we're going to have some much needed additional parking downtown (parking garage)and potentially a new hotel. That entire block is going to be reformed just like much of downtown was reformed when the Terre Haute House finally got torn down.
> 
> So you can keep telling yourself what makes you feel better. You're protecting Indiana State which hasn't started a renovation of the HC after 3+ years of conversation, drawings, state committed funding, re-bid etc. etc. Please spare me. This thread was started in February 2015 with a rendering and all. This February - when basketball is finishing up will mark 4 years and construction is yet to begin. I can't help you if you can't see the problem with that.



Do you ever rest or do you stay up and wait to play the blame game every time something about this pops up. First of all, it’s a great idea. Remember, the Garden Inn is done so build (and link it) to HC and the Convo Center and let the fricking CITY pay for it. HC gets updated and the University takes control of it. I hate to see the Copper gone but maybe that sports bar will be built by Rob (i’d put money on it). I really don’t get why you guys love to throw blame around, who gives a fuck when they are BOTH done. It’s a great idea and maybe, just maybe, both sides can move on. We’ll see if it’s big enough to bring in some needed business. You’ll start getting time lines pretty soon on Hulman Center. It’ll make sense to at least a few of you.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I wouldn't risk too much of your money on Rob. You might end up in a similar financial situation.

He apparently owes over $100k in backed taxes on the Indiana Theater and hasn't made a single payment since 2016. My understanding is he's looking a similar backed-tax figure on the Copper Bar. It's usually not really good for business when a property you own starts showing up in a tax sale. 

Oh the irony, the timing of this article is just hilarious. Some of this will start to make sense for most of you anyway. 

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_905c1226-533d-5b4a-97cc-6c00e0aaf618.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I wouldn't risk too much of your money on Rob. You might end up in a similar financial situation.
> 
> He apparently owes over $100k in backed taxes on the Indiana Theater and hasn't made a single payment since 2016. My understanding is he's looking a similar figure on the Copper Bar. It's usually not really good for business when a property you own starts showing up in a tax sale.
> 
> Oh the irony, the timing of this article is just hilarious. Some of this will start to make sense for most of you anyway.
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_905c1226-533d-5b4a-97cc-6c00e0aaf618.html



"Business as usual" ?

Isn't that what got you to the point where you owe $100k in back taxes? It may be time to try something unusual.


----------



## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I wouldn't risk too much of your money on Rob. You might end up in a similar financial situation.
> 
> He apparently owes over $100k in backed taxes on the Indiana Theater and hasn't made a single payment since 2016. My understanding is he's looking a similar backed-tax figure on the Copper Bar. It's usually not really good for business when a property you own starts showing up in a tax sale.
> 
> Oh the irony, the timing of this article is just hilarious. Some of this will start to make sense for most of you anyway.
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_905c1226-533d-5b4a-97cc-6c00e0aaf618.html



Good info. No argument there. Plan B’s likely to find someone with a better balance sheet. It shouldn’t be that difficult for the Garden Inn to step in so there’s another option. I don’t know Rob well, I knew his brother. The Copper appears to be a moneymaker but the Indiana has to be an albatross most of the time. The whole idea of the Convo Center makes sense but it’ll need to be a team concept from here on out!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #50 said:


> Good info. No argument there. Plan B’s likely to find someone with a better balance sheet. It shouldn’t be that difficult for the Garden Inn to step in so there’s another option. I don’t know Rob well, I knew his brother. The Copper appears to be a moneymaker but the Indiana has to be an albatross most of the time. The whole idea of the Convo Center makes sense but it’ll need to be a team concept from here on out!



I think the Copper is making money - but not enough to pay his taxes. Again, my understanding is that they have some taxes owed on the Copper as well. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter as it's going to be demo'd soon anyway. I think a franchise of some sort will probably come in next - I don't think it will be a locally owned bar this time around.


----------



## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I think the Copper is making money - but not enough to pay his taxes. Again, my understanding is that they have some taxes owed on the Copper as well. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter as it's going to be demo'd soon anyway. I think a franchise of some sort will probably come in next - I don't think it will be a locally owned bar this time around.



Let’s not forget these two eyeing Terredice, SCOTTY’S BREWHOUSE and another you might not be aware of, BIG WOODS.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Bally #50 said:


> Let’s not forget these two eyeing Terredice, SCOTTY’S BREWHOUSE and another you might not be aware of, BIG WOODS.



I wasn't but it doesn't surprise me - it's only a matter of time. Someone is going to dive in head first soon - they will do alright. It's just a matter of location, proximity to campus/convention center/downtown/HC and the big one - parking.


----------



## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I wasn't but it doesn't surprise me - it's only a matter of time. Someone is going to dive in head first soon - they will do alright. It's just a matter of location, proximity to campus/convention center/downtown/HC and the big one - parking.



There's room for parking on the Garden Inn block. The sports bar is the easy part of the puzzle. Linking it to the hotel and HC's operations will be tough. I drove by that block the other day and the lobby at the Indiana Convention center is bigger. There's a need for it but doing it right (just like HC) is a challenge, as we can see.


----------



## ISUCC

Nice article about thoughts for the future regarding ISU athletics

http://www.newsandtribune.com/news/...cle_8444d29a-b2e6-11e8-921c-5b4d40bb7623.html


----------



## TreeTop

ISUCC said:


> Nice article about thoughts for the future regarding ISU athletics
> 
> http://www.newsandtribune.com/news/...cle_8444d29a-b2e6-11e8-921c-5b4d40bb7623.html



From the article, and what President Curtis states, it sounds like there IS work getting done at HC.  So, I'm encouraged by that.


----------



## BrokerZ

TreeTop said:


> From the article, and what President Curtis states, it sounds like there IS work getting done at HC.  So, I'm encouraged by that.



That's what I took away from it, too.  In her word work has already started and this is all a non-issue.

Curious if that's actually the case...


----------



## rapala

Would the naysayers who constantly ride ISU's butt about things not being done and give them credit for having some common sense is about how to make the best of tough situations.  If you thinkt I am out of line, check some the bitching and griping that goes on on this board.  I am amazed how some people have their hand out to the University and yet bitch about how stupid those making the decisions are.  These people have the best interest of the school on their,minds.  If you know how the system works, you know they are making progress in HC.


----------



## pbutler218

I am a local and I see a lot of equipment and activity especially on the north side of hulman center everyday. Not sure what they're doing though.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

rapala said:


> Would the naysayers who constantly ride ISU's butt about things not being done and give them credit for having some common sense is about how to make the best of tough situations.  If you thinkt I am out of line, check some the bitching and griping that goes on on this board.  I am amazed how some people have their hand out to the University and yet bitch about how stupid those making the decisions are.  These people have the best interest of the school on their,minds.  If you know how the system works, you know they are making progress in HC.



Bart created this thread February 2, 2015. We're 3 and a half years in and we're just now seeing construction equipment? All the article says is they're working on asbestos abatement. 

I think the problem that a lot of folks have is we saw absolutely beautiful plans on what was going to be built. That got all of us INSANELY EXCITED at the possibility of us having not only the nicest facility in the Valley but maybe even the nicest in the Midwest, certainly among all mid-majors. Then we heard of delays yet again because of steel prices and then rumors from many in Terre Haute that the project would be scaled back. 

Damn near everyone here has been positive on the project until having that squashed by the ISU/TH beef, posturing playing out through the paper and then Bradley's final announcement and now rumors of project changing because of steel price increases. While I'm going to remain optimistic, notice that there were no direct quotes in the article from Curtis about the previously released plans. Further, there still hasn't been a capital campaign launched to raise money for anything related, either. Lastly, when Butler did their Hinkle renovation/construction project, they had a website where you could follow the progress of what has been done as well as donate. 

I want to believe. I _really_ do.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Well said Jason, very well said.


----------



## rapala

Jason, I too was excited about the original project, but all you have to do is look at the current convention center now being proposed, and you can see what is going on.  It is pretty clear why Dan Bradley could see where it was going.  I too would like to know more about what is happening right now, but I have confidence that those in charge want the best for the University and its students.  As far as fun raising is concerned, it is what needs more transparency. 
How is that for a big word for an old man!  Thanks for allowing me to give my opinion.  Last word, last night because TV is so bad right now, the wife and I watched the IU game again.  The announcer kept talking about our three straight losing seasons and how things might change for us.  Guess what three is now four.  Things look better this year, but that's what we said four years running.  A winner for four years  running would help.  God I would like to see that before I pass on.  I always said I would never live to drive on 641.  I was wrong, maybe I will see a winner yet!


----------



## Hooper

Jason Svoboda said:


> Bart created this thread February 2, 2015. We're 3 and a half years in and we're just now seeing construction equipment? All the article says is they're working on asbestos abatement.
> 
> I think the problem that a lot of folks have is we saw absolutely beautiful plans on what was going to be built. That got all of us INSANELY EXCITED at the possibility of us having not only the nicest facility in the Valley but maybe even the nicest in the Midwest, certainly among all mid-majors. Then we heard of delays yet again because of steel prices and then rumors from many in Terre Haute that the project would be scaled back.
> 
> Damn near everyone here has been positive on the project until having that squashed by the ISU/TH beef, posturing playing out through the paper and then Bradley's final announcement and now rumors of project changing because of steel price increases. While I'm going to remain optimistic, notice that there were no direct quotes in the article from Curtis about the previously released plans. Further, there still hasn't been a capital campaign launched to raise money for anything related, either. Lastly, when Butler did their Hinkle renovation/construction project, they had a website where you could follow the progress of what has been done as well as donate.
> 
> I want to believe. I _really_ do.



On the fundraising end, the University has interviewed all three finalists for a permanent VP of Advancement/ISU Foundation Head or whatever title they're going to give him/her.  Expect an announcement by the end of the month.

ISU spent over $100,000 on the search.  That is not a typo.  If the new head makes as much as Carpenter, or commands more, they'll make at least a quarter mil a year plus benefits and travel expense account.  Throw in what we paid Smith to temporarily lead (as opposed to an in-house interim) and ISU is probably down a half million dollars before the new head has even raised one cent.

Gotta spend it to make it....I guess :-/


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Have you guys heard who the contractor is going to be for the Hulman Center renovation? No? Me either... February 2015 and nothing to show for it. 

Meanwhile the CIB has selected Garmong Construction as the CM for the new convention center project. November 2017 the CIB first announced they would go at it alone and build a stand-alone facility. Less than a year later - things are still progressing and a CM has been selected along with several details about the project. 

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_9e03024b-30c8-54fc-b955-05fa5765a0f6.html


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Yeah the local politicians in this city/county are great. Raise our restaurant taxes to give Greg Gibson some more money. Raise our taxes for a convention center that no one will ever use and shut another street down while they're at it. The university on the other hand is actually doing this right. The bids came in higher than expected and they wanted to review it. The city on the other hand just wants to spend money it doesn't have and give someone more money. Anyone on the local council won't be getting my vote.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Frustrated as everyone else is (although you can't really name a contractor until you have accepted bids can you, so that's a mute point).  Hard to believe they weren't prepared for this in the first place though and why they waited until just a very few weeks before dirt was suppose to fly to open bids.

Hopefully the new leadership at ISU will get all this  …..Hulman Center, new football stadium, better funding, etc. all corrected in the very near future.


----------



## niklz62

Why doesnt ISU just add a sales tax for Terre Haure businesses to cover the cost of the HC project and a football stadium?


----------



## 4Q_iu

niklz62 said:


> Why doesnt ISU just add a sales tax for Terre Haure businesses to cover the cost of the HC project and a football stadium?



Seriously?  ISU isn't a government, why would they have the "power" to levy a tax on the citizens of T.H.


----------



## TreeTop

I'm not worried about the timeline for the HC renovation anymore.  It'll get done. President Curtis will see to it.

In the meantime, I still like HC.  And a winning team will bring the crowds.


----------



## niklz62

4Q_iu said:


> Seriously?  ISU isn't a government, why would they have the "power" to levy a tax on the citizens of T.H.



No not seriously.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Have you guys heard who the contractor is going to be for the Hulman Center renovation? No? Me either... February 2015 and nothing to show for it.
> 
> Meanwhile the CIB has selected Garmong Construction as the CM for the new convention center project. November 2017 the CIB first announced they would go at it alone and build a stand-alone facility. Less than a year later - things are still progressing and a CM has been selected along with several details about the project.
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_9e03024b-30c8-54fc-b955-05fa5765a0f6.html



Well, shoot, when a member of the CIB stands to make a giant chunk of money by *selling land he owns to the board he sits on*, of course it's gonna move fast!  More Vigo County politics for 'ya...

Pretty decent example of "conflict of interest."


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Looks like Twitch knew want he was talkin' bout. Feel free to defend this bullshit.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

This wouldn’t be so disappointing if we hadn’t seen the original plans. Since we have...this is a shit show.

Big whoop they were off a little bit on the budget...they could have solicited donations specifically for the renovation project when they sent out season ticket information.

Do things the right way!!


----------



## eagletree

I can handle the boring exterior but making the upper bowl bleacher seats is just wrong. Too many seniors sit up there that will just refuse to go. It is easy to go from bleachers to chair seats but NOT from chair seats to bleachers..........


----------



## IndyTreeFan

If I had upper bowl season tickets now, and a few years from now they want me to pay the same amount to sit on bleachers, I'd laugh my ass all the way to a Notre Dame game...

This is just disappointing on many levels.  Once again, ISU can't get out of its own way.


----------



## TreeTop

I don't really care about the exterior difference that much, but the bleachers thing...that's super lame.

Never mind my question about bidding (I deleted it), I know not of the construction industry.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

If you’re defending the latest rendering and the timeline at which we arrived at this then we will probably never agree on anything as it relates to this entire project so why even get into a debate ehh?! No one wins. 

I’m just not going to bed tonight delusional about Indiana State and how they shit the bed on this project for the last 3 years. If you’re okay with the way all this unfolded I don’t applaud you - you’re part of the problem.

The “new” rendering is insignificant at best - we had the potential to have something special here. Why come to the defense of Indiana State?! Why? Especially when you don’t always come to the defense of our players, our coaches, our teams - why now? Cause you wanted to believe they wouldn’t get this wrong? Well they got it wrong!


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind




----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

This time-lapse will be amazing. They actually made each rendering look better and got us more excited with each released rendering and then... Well you already know how this ends. 

*2015: First they gave us this:*











*2016: Then they gave us this:*






*2017: Then they gave us:*






*2018: And this is where we’re at now:*


----------



## niklz62

id be more worried about the inside


----------



## IndyTreeFan

niklz62 said:


> id be more worried about the inside



Bleachers.  'Nuf said...


----------



## sycamore tuff

Not as many people in the last picture.  Of course there were not as many people when black and white photos were common.


----------



## sycamore tuff

IndyTreeFan said:


> If I had upper bowl season tickets now, and a few years from now they want me to pay the same amount to sit on bleachers, I'd laugh my ass all the way to a Notre Dame game...
> 
> This is just disappointing on many levels.  Once again, ISU can't get out of its own way.



At least the orange seats will be gone.  Don't kill me at the game tonight for making this comment.


----------



## SycamoreBlue3209

sycamore tuff said:


> At least the orange seats will be gone.  Don't kill me at the game tonight for making this comment.



I have always thought the orange seats were the worst part of Hulman Center.  I now have mixed emotions as I may prefer 1970's orange seats over bleachers...I think that says about all ya need to know about the new plans.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

@rightley pic.twitter.com/aAYZLI32qc— James Twitchell (@sycamoretwitch) September 27, 2018


----------



## WOZ

SycamoreBlue3209 said:


> I have always thought the orange seats were the worst part of Hulman Center.  I now have mixed emotions as I may prefer 1970's orange seats over bleachers...I think that says about all ya need to know about the new plans.



Let’s keep our fingers crossed that the bleachers won’t be orange.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Headed to game tonight so don't attack me ---and I AGREE totally with what appears to very disappointing new plans.
BUT -- with about $50 million to spend, did you really think any of those designs were feasible ?  Or a dramatic concourse overlook ?  Or wonderful suites ?
Or all new seating ?  Or fantastic electronics ?  Wow lighting ?  ETC  ETC ?????

Yes I hoped for all those things, but you're probably talking $100 million ++ to do those things.

Having said that ---- pretty disappointing


----------



## Westbadenboy

*BUT ....*

With that said -- unless its all been kept very hush hush ISU has done nothing about seeking donors, corporate sponsors, etc.  
 Hell the Hulmans got the place built in the 70's -- might be time for them to pony up some more $$$$$ to keep it the "Hulman Center"
:annoyed:


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Westbadenboy said:


> Headed to game tonight so don't attack me ---and I AGREE totally with what appears to very disappointing new plans.
> BUT -- with about $50 million to spend, did you really think any of those designs were feasible ?  Or a dramatic concourse overlook ?  Or wonderful suites ?
> Or all new seating ?  Or fantastic electronics ?  Wow lighting ?  ETC  ETC ?????
> 
> Yes I hoped for all those things, but you're probably talking $100 million ++ to do those things.
> 
> Having said that ---- pretty disappointing



Just a few years ago, the University of Notre Dame _completely _renovated an arena that is older than Hulman Center, turning it from an aging, ugly, OLD facility into a state of the art, intimate, beautiful arena.  All for 1/2 of what we are supposed to spend on Hulman Center.  How did they do what they did for $26M when we get this for (supposedly) $50M?  I don't buy that $50M isn't enough to do what was proposed.  Actually it was, but for some reason, ISU only wants to spend something like $42M.  I don't get that, either.

If the building was as derelict as the administration is making it out be, someone (or multiple someones) needs to be held accountable for allowing a major university asset to fall in to total disrepair.  In my mind, that's the issue that no one is discussing.  That's malfeasance.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

What exactly is so difficult about putting actual real blue seats like we have in the lower level in the upper level. ISU really does know how to screw everything up. $50 million to downgrade the Hulman Center. I'll go ahead and eat crow. What a disgrace.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

I don't care what amount of money we have. They simply added a different material on the outside of the building, some windows and a freaking vestibule & said here you go Sycamore fans - eat your heart out. 

I'm equally concerned about the inside of the building - but to put out that many sets of renderings and then arrive at this final rendering with bids starting next week is inexcusable.

Hell you got the top Engineering school in the country about 3 miles down the road - solicit some free help and see if they can offer any budget friendly alternatives... I mean don't tell me they didn't have an ample amount of time to come up with other alternatives (3 freaking years and counting).


----------



## BlueBleeder

Okay guys/gals.  I have looked everywhere I know to look....where did you see they are putting in bleacher seats.  The article i read said the orange seats would be changed to match the lower bowl, but that's all I saw.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

WOZ said:


> Let’s keep our fingers crossed that the bleachers won’t be orange.



Maybe we should just replace the blue seats down low with orange ones? Might not look as stupid if they are all the same color. If we actually put bleachers in the Hulman Center then we should just go D2 and join the GLVC, because it will just prove how bad our current administration is. Seems like we have no issue having those schools come the Hulman Center every year anyways. (For those who don't know UMSL, UINDY, IL-Springfield, McKendree, and Truman State all participate in that league. Quincy is also in the GLVC, but I don't think we've ever played them in basketball or at least recently.)


----------



## IndyTreeFan

BlueBleeder said:


> Okay guys/gals.  I have looked everywhere I know to look....where did you see they are putting in bleacher seats.  The article i read said the orange seats would be changed to match the lower bowl, but that's all I saw.



Www.indstateplanroom.com

Hulman Center Renovation and Expansion 

Bid Set Vol. 1

Page 7



The photo references about 3200 chair back seats and roughly 9000 linear feet of bench seating. I hope I’m reading that wrong, but 3200 is about the number of lower bowl seats.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Given the choice brand new bleacher style seating or just keep the old orange seats and call it good I would vote for the old seats every single time. We're going all Eastern Illinois - which is just fantastic.


----------



## Sycamorefan96

Are we sure that the bleachers aren't for the lower bowl where the curtains currently are to make an actual bowl in the lower section? Just a thought.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

Sycamorefan96 said:


> Are we sure that the bleachers aren't for the lower bowl where the curtains currently are to make an actual bowl in the lower seaction? Just a thought.



 I'm really not sure on the Wrigley Field style seating - it could make for a really cool party atmosphere who knows. I'm just going off what everyone else is saying on that point - I'm not interested in digging too deep into those plan documents. I expect another rebid to be perfectly honest.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> I'm really not sure on the Wrigley Field style seating - it could make for a really cool party atmosphere who knows. I'm just going off what everyone else is saying on that point - I'm not interested in digging too deep into those plan documents. I expect another rebid to be perfectly honest.



Already got a couple exclusive pictures of fans partying up there:
































































































End of pictures.


----------



## niklz62

The good news about this is that by going alone, ISU cut the chance of someone going to federal prison because of something by about 97%


----------



## sycamore tuff

niklz62 said:


> The good news about this is that by going alone, ISU cut the chance of someone going to federal prison because of something by about 97%


Is it possible they are using the savings on this project for the Tanoos defense fund?


----------



## SycfromBirth

IndyTreeFan said:


> Www.indstateplanroom.com
> 
> Hulman Center Renovation and Expansion
> 
> Bid Set Vol. 1
> 
> Page 7
> 
> View attachment 1399
> 
> The photo references about 3200 chair back seats and roughly 9000 linear feet of bench seating. I hope I’m reading that wrong, but 3200 is about the number of lower bowl seats.



Page 163 of that same document has all of the upper bowl seats listed as "REFINISH SEATS, INCLUDING REPLACEMENT OF UPHOLSTERY FABRIC, REMOVAL OF PAINT AND REPAINTING OF SEAT BOTTOMS AND ARMS"


----------



## IndyTreeFan

SycfromBirth said:


> Page 163 of that same document has all of the upper bowl seats listed as "REFINISH SEATS, INCLUDING REPLACEMENT OF UPHOLSTERY FABRIC, REMOVAL OF PAINT AND REPAINTING OF SEAT BOTTOMS AND ARMS"



That certainly is better news than bleachers!  I wonder what 10,000 linear feet of bench seating would be for in light of this?  I hope that I must stand corrected!!!  I like my crow medium-well, with a nice hollandaise on the side, please...

Do the upper bowl seats have arms?


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## niklz62

IndyTreeFan said:


> That certainly is better news than bleachers!  I wonder what 10,000 linear feet of bench seating would be for in light of this?  I hope that I must stand corrected!!!  I like my crow medium-well, with a nice hollandaise on the side, please...
> 
> Do the upper bowl seats have arms?



I gotta think its the kind of seats that pull out probably where the varsity club is.  I doubt 10,000 linear feet is that many rows


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## SycfromBirth

niklz62 said:


> I gotta think its the kind of seats that pull out probably where the varsity club is.  I doubt 10,000 linear feet is that many rows



I am happy to see that they are proposing to restore the "bowl" with the moveable seating.  I think it will look better as well as increase the crowd noise and provide better sightlines.

Hopefully it will provide a better experience for the students as opposed to having them sit in the upper bowl and be completely separate from the lower tier.


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## IndyTreeFan

niklz62 said:


> I gotta think its the kind of seats that pull out probably where the varsity club is.  I doubt 10,000 linear feet is that many rows



250-300 rows maybe?  Depending on the length of a "row"...

You could be right.  And you probably are.  I am confused by the breaking out of chair back seating of 700+ moveable and 2500+ permanent.  It would make sense that the moveable sections are the benches, I suppose.  It's weird, though, that the document references benches with backs and benches without backs.  Just odd stuff.

I guess I should stop reading construction documents.  Terribly confusing stuff...


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## Sycamorefan96

As long as we have blue seats (not bleachers) up high and the retractable bleachers to make the lower bowl an actual bowl I will be happy. Looks like both will likely happen. Hopefully the retractable bleachers will also be blue.


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## rapala

I am not that worried about seating, I want a winning ball team!  What kind of seats will guarantee that?


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## Jason Svoboda

The seats can always be changed. My biggest concern is the facade and long term structural design and aesthetics. They missed the boat. They missed the pond. They missed the lake. They missed the ocean. Talking Titanic level of failure. Imagine waking up in 2040 and heading out to Hulman Center and looking at that render. You proud of that place? Now picture doing the same in 2060. You proud of that place? If the answer is yes, you're too easily impressed 

Furthermore, the several of you that say "all I care about winning" are missing a vital point. *Facilities matter*. Let me say it again. _*FACILITIES MATTER*_. If they didn't, you wouldn't see schools building these bigger and better arenas, practice facilities, locker rooms, etc. The whole package attracts *talent*. _*Talent wins ball games*_. So next time you talk about a winning team, start looking at the bigger picture.

Everyone with their hands in this project has failed the basketball program, the students, the alumni and the fans that pay their disposable income to go out to the Hulman Center to see a basketball game, attend a concert or other event.


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## Jason Svoboda

rapala said:


> I am not that worried about seating, I want a winning ball team!  What kind of seats will guarantee that?



Cushy blue ones that are comfortable where the school can charge a couple bucks more per seat. That money can be diverted back into the program where the team could then buy home games instead of having to be bought out. Lansing has an 80-35 home record -- a 70% winning percentage. Work for you?


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## meistro

Jason Svoboda said:


> The seats can always be changed. My biggest concern is the facade and long term structural design and aesthetics. They missed the boat. They missed the pond. They missed the lake. They missed the ocean. Talking Titanic level of failure. Imagine waking up in 2040 and heading out to Hulman Center and looking at that render. You proud of that place? Now picture doing the same in 2060. You proud of that place? If the answer is yes, you're too easily impressed
> 
> Furthermore, the several of you that say "all I care about winning" are missing a vital point. *Facilities matter*. Let me say it again. _*FACILITIES MATTER*_. If they didn't, you wouldn't see schools building these bigger and better arenas, practice facilities, locker rooms, etc. The whole package attracts *talent*. _*Talent wins ball games*_. So next time you talk about a winning team, start looking at the bigger picture.
> 
> Everyone with their hands in this project has failed the basketball program, the students, the alumni and the fans that pay their disposable income to go out to the Hulman Center to see a basketball game, attend a concert or other event.


Totally agree. I would say that if they would have showed this one first, we would have been disappointed. But, not nearly as much we are now after seeing all the other cool ones. I can’t believe they couldn’t at least put it in color. I just hope the inside is done right and the outside finished product better than expected.


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## meistro

I'm hearing that the rumors of not many bells and whistles is true. I did hear though that the orange seats will be replaced and the retractable seats behind the baskets will be installed to take the place of the hideous risers and chairs. Gotta look for the positives. Hopefully things like an updated locker room can be taken care of later. Sounds like the previous administration really dropped the ball.


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## Sycamore Proud

Friends and I were talking in the VC room after the game last night.  The topic of renovations came up.  We spoke to an ISU staffer about improvements to the sound system being desperately needed--he said don't count on that being done.  It isn't part of mechanical s package as I understand it.  No, I have no idea who he was;  I could not see his name badge.


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## sycamore tuff

You are probably not going to get the most for your money when the contractors know up front what you are going to spend.  Ever been to a car lot?  How much are you looking to spend is always the question they ask.  After that they have the upper hand.  Their job is to sell you the cheapest car possible for that money.


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## rapala

You don't attract people by just winning at home. You can't win the conference by just winning at home.  A winning season means more than just home games count.  No, 70 percent doesn't work for me if we are not winning 20 games for the season.


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## sycamore tuff

Fiji Bill 72 said:


> I was on the yearbook staff when this was published. My understanding is they had to redesign Hulman Center because the city would not close the street.


They would have if ISU would have named it the Gibson Center.


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## meistro

sycamore tuff said:


> You are probably not going to get the most for your money when the contractors know up front what you are going to spend.  Ever been to a car lot?  How much are you looking to spend is always the question they ask.  After that they have the upper hand.  Their job is to sell you the cheapest car possible for that money.



Ya, look out for those greedy contractors.


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## sycamore tuff

meistro said:


> Ya, look out for those greedy contractors.



I don't think habitat for humanity is doing the work with their volunteers.


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## meistro

sycamore tuff said:


> You are probably not going to get the most for your money when the contractors know up front what you are going to spend.  Ever been to a car lot?  How much are you looking to spend is always the question they ask.  After that they have the upper hand.  Their job is to sell you the cheapest car possible for that money.



Well, it’s a little different with a contractor. You have to know a customers budget to design something that fits in their budget. Why spend time and money designing the Taj Mahal, when you only have the money for a pole barn.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamore tuff said:


> I don't think habitat for humanity is doing the work with their volunteers.




You got an answer for everything... Cute.


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## sycamore tuff

meistro said:


> Well, it’s a little different with a contractor. You have to know a customers budget to design something that fits in their budget. Why spend time and money designing the Taj Mahal, when you only have the money for a pole barn.



The contractor isn't designing anything.  The engineering firm does that.  ISU just needed to know how much it will cost to have the work done.


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## sycamore tuff

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> You got an answer for everything... Cute.



Correct on both counts.  Thank you!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamore tuff said:


> The contractor isn't designing anything.  The engineering firm does that.  ISU just needed to know how much it will cost to have the work done.



You don’t even know who you’re talking to with this stuff and the background they have. If you think you’re the only one with a clue you don’t have a clue.


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## sycamore tuff

Well, I don't think I'm the only one with a clue but you obviously think you are.  Let me see, You badmouthed ISU for blowing up the whole convention center/Hulman Center deal.  Now you badmouth me for my comments.  You must be the smartest man on here.  Why don't you lay it all out there so the not so intelligent people on here can understand it.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

sycamore tuff said:


> Well, I don't think I'm the only one with a clue but you obviously think you are.  Let me see, You badmouthed ISU for blowing up the whole convention center/Hulman Center deal.  Now you badmouth me for my comments.  You must be the smartest man on here.  Why don't you lay it all out there so the not so intelligent people on here can understand it.



Definitely badmouthed ISU for the entire Convention Center / Hulman Center deal. I will own that. At this point we might as well wait and see until we see the HC finished project and then judge the finish product. I’ve got a decent idea how I think it will turn out. 

I don’t know everyone who visits this forum but I know I’m not smarter than Jason. Beyond that we’ve got educators on here, a dentist, business owners etc. etc. all of which are much smarter than me. So I will go ahead and dispute that - but thank you!

I didn’t say - you don’t have a clue. I said, if you think your the only one with a clue then you don’t have a clue. You need to decide if the shoe fits.


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## bluestreak

I haven't chimed in on this discussion before now, because I understand most of all of these points of view. I too am disappointed that we are not going to get all of the bells and whistles that were in the initial proposal, but on the other hand I am very happy that the HC is getting some fundamental repairs and improvements. The building has some serious problems - as I understand it that are fundamental to the integrity of the structure. And it seems that those will be addressed. As most of you probably know the price on steel has skyrocketed over the last year and I'm sure that has had some bearing on the cost. So I'll swallow my disappointment and be hopeful that the 50 million will fix what needs to be fixed.


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## SycamoreBlue3209

Did glass go up too? I just wanted the plan with all the windows lol.


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## sycamore tuff

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> Definitely badmouthed ISU for the entire Convention Center / Hulman Center deal. I will own that. At this point we might as well wait and see until we see the HC finished project and then judge the finish product. I’ve got a decent idea how I think it will turn out.
> 
> I don’t know everyone who visits this forum but I know I’m not smarter than Jason. Beyond that we’ve got educators on here, a dentist, business owners etc. etc. all of which are much smarter than me. So I will go ahead and dispute that - but thank you!
> 
> I didn’t say - you don’t have a clue. I said, if you think your the only one with a clue then you don’t have a clue. You need to decide if the shoe fits.



Look, you attacked me for disagreeing with someone.  I'm sure that person does a great job building homes and is probably involved in designing things for his customers.  However, that is not the same as putting in a bid to do the work that ISU has already paid an engineering firm to design.  If the contractor is doing the designing then ISU is paying twice for the same thing.  I don't need to try on the shoe.  My name in not Cinderella!


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## SycamoreStateofMind

https://www.tribstar.com/news/local...cle_ccdc5300-f970-50f3-b80d-596028c279aa.html

Had the opportunity to tour the new Vigo County Historical Society in downtown Terre Haute this weekend. Which is located on Wabash near Clabber Girl/Hulman Center and that museaum is going to be fantastic when completed. 3 stories of history - really neat what they've done with that building so far. 

Terre Haute gets a lot of people dumping on it but in the next 2 to 4 years you will have all of the following downtown museums. 

Children's Museum 
Vigo County Historical Museum 
Larry Bird Museum - Convention Center 
Clabber Girl Museum 
Swope Art Museum 
Veterans Memorial War Museum 
CANDLES Holocaust Museum (relocating to downtown) 

All of these are either already downtown or will soon be downtown - all within 5 minutes walking distance in any direction of each-other! With the renovation of the Hulman Center, new hotel and parking garage our downtown area is really starting to taking on new life! If we can only get a few more restaurants/bars and shops in the downtown area!


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## niklz62

Im the smartest guy on here....I dumb it down for everyone and im super lazy so it doesnt show.


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## meistro

I just saw on Twitter that Clink took a tour of Loyola’s new basketball practice facility that is under construction. Hmm maybe getting some ideas.


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## Bluethunder

Well, the Sycamores are laying enough bricks tonight the facility should be done around midway through the second half.


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## meistro

I know that we wish the renovations to Hulman Center were more like the earlier plans. But, it’s stil exciting to go by and see the construction fences up and work actually being done. I’m gonna try to be happy with whatever we get, still will be better than it is now.


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## Sycamore Proud

meistro said:


> I know that we wish the renovations to Hulman Center were more like the earlier plans. But, it’s stil exciting to go by and see the construction fences up and work actually being done. I’m gonna try to be happy with whatever we get, still will be better than it is now.




Getting needed structural improvements along with electrical, HVAC and plumbing work is essential.  After getting that completed I just hope there is enough money remaining to replace those awful orange seats.  After that it's all window dressing.  Even in its current configuration there are no bad seats in the Hulman Center.


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## sycamore tuff

Sycamore Proud said:


> Getting needed structural improvements along with electrical, HVAC and plumbing work is essential.  After getting that completed I just hope there is enough money remaining to replace those awful orange seats.  After that it's all window dressing.  Even in its current configuration there are no bad seats in the Hulman Center.



I think it would suck to have to sit at the end of the bench.:lol:


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## Sycamore Proud

sycamore tuff said:


> I think it would suck to have to sit at the end of the bench.:lol:



Very well could be--but if you are getting a free education ...


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## Westbadenboy

Perhaps I've missed it …..but has ISU posted any illustrations, pictures, etc. on the GoSycamores site of the Hulman Center project ?
I saw a basic one -- I think here but I've seen nothing at ISU sites that I know of …..?


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