# Indiana High School Basketball



## landrus13

Discuss it here, instead of in the Sycamore Basketball threads. And this pertains to me too.

Thank you!!!


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## KAPat1865

Are the ranking out yet? In the big class I figure Lawrence North, North Central and Bloomington South have to be the favorites. Also Cody Zeller from Washington is going to announce his college choice last this week. I hope to god he goes anywhere but IU. I would personally like to see him in a Butler uniform but i highly doubt that will happen.


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## landrus13

I am not sure, I will check that out.


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## landrus13

No, the rankings haven't come out yet, but they begin practice tomorrow. The Wabash Valley scrimmage game is at Terre Haute North HS on November 19 at 7pm.

The participants this year are: South Vermillion, West Vigo, Terre Haute North, and Terre Haute South.


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## True Blue

jlandrus11 said:


> No, the rankings haven't come out yet, but they begin practice tomorrow. The Wabash Valley scrimmage game is at Terre Haute North HS on November 19 at 7pm.
> 
> The participants this year are: South Vermillion, West Vigo, Terre Haute North, and Terre Haute South.



Northviews not in the jamboree this year?

Also talked to a dad of a North player.  Said North was like 27-3 this summer.  Said key was Woefle and Menser took the reigns off and let the team run and gun a little.  Also said Gant was dominate this summer.


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## egc1985

KAPat1865 said:


> Are the ranking out yet? In the big class I figure Lawrence North, North Central and Bloomington South have to be the favorites. Also Cody Zeller from Washington is going to announce his college choice last this week. I hope to god he goes anywhere but IU. I would personally like to see him in a Butler uniform but i highly doubt that will happen.



every sign pointing to iu


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## KAPat1865

yeah i know...that sucks.. I can't stand IU


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## Little Eddie

Landrus you kill me...first you say you're done talking about it on the other thread and you post about 6 or 7 more times. Then you say that maybe you'll start a thread about high school tomorrow and you start one tonight...you really have to be on your toes to follow your line of thinking.


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## bent20

Little Eddie said:


> Landrus you kill me...first you say you're done talking about it on the other thread and you post about 6 or 7 more times. Then you say that maybe you'll start a thread about high school tomorrow and you start one tonight...you really have to be on your toes to follow your line of thinking.



He's a teenager. You do have to be on your toes to keep up with their thinking.


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## KAPat1865

Little Eddie said:


> Landrus you kill me...first you say you're done talking about it on the other thread and you post about 6 or 7 more times. Then you say that maybe you'll start a thread about high school tomorrow and you start one tonight...you really have to be on your toes to follow your line of thinking.



HAHA well it's true he's just a kid and a sycamore fan! I'm glad that he took my advice and started a high school thread....

Landrus, hang in there buddy...we all know that you mean well
:sycamores:


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## landrus13

Northview dropped out of it for some unknown reason.


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## dr. bucket

jlandrus11 said:


> Northview dropped out of it for some unknown reason.



they wanted a full scrimmage


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## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> they wanted a full scrimmage



Maybe it will help them win 3 games this year.  J/k


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## TH_Sycamore12

Ernie Maesch is 16-29 starting his third year at the helm for the Knights. This will also be the last year Mike Saylor will be HC at Terre Haute South. In his 6 years he's 91-59, won 2 sectional championships (could've been 4) and one regional title. Although it pains me to say this, T.H. North is the favorite heading into the season. While it's a long way down the road Patriots players and fans still have to be a little bitter about losing to Martinsville in last years sectional. I hope North and Sullivan draw opposite sides of the bracket for the Pizza Hut WV Classsic. It would be great to see another championship game with those two teams.


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## landrus13

The boys high school teams start their first practice tonight.


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## Sycamore624

Jason,

How about a high school hoops sub-forum?


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## landrus13

That's a very good idea FireMedic75. I agree with you.


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## landrus13

WTHI did their annual short preview of the local high school basketball teams. North's Woelfle said they are hungry and are looking for a championship. Saylor said that they don't have any size but they will be scrappy. Boehler said that we have guys actually over 6'5" this year. Ernie Maesch said they are experienced and should be a very good team this year.


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## Little Eddie

FireMedic75 said:


> Jason,
> 
> How about a high school hoops sub-forum?



That was a joke right? This is a Indy St message board...can't this kind of stuff be discussed in the off-topic area or something?


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## landrus13

Why does it have to be a joke?

This IS an Indiana State message board, but we have forums for politics and entertainment. What really is the difference?


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## mohoops247

Just thought I'd post this again for those that hadn't read it and are interested (I originally posted on the Justin Gant Recruit thread).

Terre Haute North was 17-7 last season and got upset in the second round of Sectionals. They finished 3-4 in conference play and were beat at North Central 41-60. However, from what I've heard North was in the game to start the 4th. One of the 3 conference wins was a convincing one over conference champion Center Grove toward the end of season.

As for this coming season, if the results from this summer have any meaning North will be a very tough team to play. In 30-some games all summer North only suffered 3 losses - by 8 at Avon, a team with multiple D1 signees; and single digit losses to a good Louisville team and good Cincinnati team. 

The team does lose an inside presence with the graduation of *Thomas Anderson *(Olney Central JC) and loses two very good athletes, competitors, and lock-down defenders in *Chris O'Leary *(redshirt quarterback for the ISU football team) and *Andrew Gauer *(Vincennes University baseball). 

However, there is still plenty of talent to go around (and don't forget, North's JV team won the MIC last year):
- Obviously, we all know what *Justin Gant* can do.

- Point Guard play has been a question mark the last few years; however, Senior *Chase Jones *will be running the point for the 4th year and showed vast improvement last year over his first two years on the varsity. Senior *Tommie Bolden *led the JV team in assists and steals last year and came on strong for the varsity team the second half of last season, earning significant minutes for the team.

- An abundance of shooters will live on the perimeter for North this year. Junior *Ross Sponsler *and Senior *Logan Shipley *split starting duties last year and both return. Sponsler had a strong summer in AAU and drew some recognition for his shooting ability; if the kid's on his is hard to stop. Shipley had some huge games scoring wise for North last year (i.e. 25+ at Vincennes), and other games he disappeared. As a senior I look for him to be more consistent. 6'5" Senior *Jake Newton *gives the team another outside threat off the bench. He is a tall, athletic guard with a nice stroke.

- 6'7" Junior *Matt O'Leary *should pick up some of the scoring lost to graduation. He was the leader scorer, rebounder, and shot blocker on the JV team last season and saw limited varsity minutes. However, he started every game for the team this summer, leading them in scoring multiple times. After a strong summer in AAU he has attracted interest from a host of D1 schools, notably Evansville (invited to their Elite camp), Eastern Kentucky (has taken a visit there), and Ball State (came to open gym to watch him).

- As has been discussed in other threads, 6'5" Sophomore *Calvin Blank *is a physical specimen. He will fill the void that Anderson is leaving under the basket with his physical play. Calvin is a talented player and is consider by many to be a Top 20 recruit in the state.

- Other potential contributors:
- Senior *Daniel Gabbard *and Sophomore *Sydney Moore*: Both great athletes and have been discussed in a few threads on the Sycamore Football forum (update: I believe Gabbard decided to hang up the sneakers and will not play this year)
- Senior *Kalen Alexander*: Another athlete with some shooting ability
- Sophomore *Nate Jahn*: Started at PG on last year's JV team as a freshman. True competitor, leader, and point guard. Size and quickness could be an issue, but I think he could provide some valuable minutes in a backup role (and with his work ethic I wouldn't doubt that he has worked to improve his quickness).
-Sophomore *AJ Grady*: Big, athletic body (6'2" - 262 lbs.) that could fill in if Gant, Blank, or O'Leary get in foul trouble.

I may be missing some of the other sophomores and I'm not sure if there are any incoming freshmen that could contribute, but based on the above I feel that North will be very formidable this season and could make a deep run in the state tournament.


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## KAPat1865

I went to Center Grove and they have very high expectations this year. As mentioned above they won the MIC title last year and look to do it again this year. They are lead by Smeathers (Butler commit) and Marlin (IPFW commit) Both of these kids can flat out play. I think they also have a few guys that are 6'8 and taller.

They were knocked out early in the first round of the tourney last year by Southport which was very disappointing. They should be a tough team again this year and I know they all have high expectations.


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## KAPat1865

http://www.indystar.com/article/20101109/SPORTS02/101109028/?odyssey=mod|dnmiss|sports

Here is a link to the Indy Star's Fab 15. I know that this has the potential to include the Terre Haute schools because south was on this a few years ago. Looks like it may be a rough season in the MIC for THS/N. You can click on year team and there is a write up about what to expect and who are the key players. Most all of these teams have 1 or 2 or maybe 3 Division 1 recruits. I still will argue Indianapolis basketball per capita is the best in the country.


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## sycamore fan

No question..Indy area hoops is very, very tough.


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## 4Q_iu

jlandrus23 said:


> Why does it have to be a joke?
> 
> This IS an Indiana State message board, but we have forums for politics and entertainment. What really is the difference?



Very little difference, as politics, the entertainment world and indiana hs basketball are pretty comical.

END CLASS BASKETBALL


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## True Blue

KAPat1865 said:


> http://www.indystar.com/article/20101109/SPORTS02/101109028/?odyssey=mod|dnmiss|sports
> 
> Here is a link to the Indy Star's Fab 15. I know that this has the potential to include the Terre Haute schools because south was on this a few years ago. Looks like it may be a rough season in the MIC for THS/N. You can click on year team and there is a write up about what to expect and who are the key players. Most all of these teams have 1 or 2 or maybe 3 Division 1 recruits. I still will argue Indianapolis basketball per capita is the best in the country.



South isn't going to be very good, but North is pretty loaded.  They have one definite D-1 in Gant, one possible in O'Leary, and one who could be in two sports in Blank.  They will probably be 6'8, 6'7, and 6'6 across front line.  Two pretty good shooters, and small college prospects in Sponselor and Shipley.  PG has been a question mark, but I've heard that Bolden has out-played Jones who is a two-year starter.  North is also loaded from 6th grade through 9th grade.

On a side note the Woodrow Wilson 7th grade is the best middle school team I've ever seen.  Their closest game has been 16 points and their starters played about one quarter.


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## KAPat1865

It will be interesting to see how THN fairs in the MIC. North and South are the only two school in the MIC that are not on that list.

Who is recruiting O'leary and Blank?


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## True Blue

KAPat1865 said:


> It will be interesting to see how THN fairs in the MIC. North and South are the only two school in the MIC that are not on that list.
> 
> Who is recruiting O'leary and Blank?



The Indy star's list is always just the Indy Metro area.  I wouldn't put much stock in it.  North is off  the radar for sure.  North was 3-4 in the MIC last year but had only 2 home games in conference. Well, 3 if u count South at Hulman Center.

From post above, apparently Evansville, Ball St., and Eastern Kentucky have been to open gym to watch O'Leary.  Blank is just a sophomore and appears to be a big-time football recruit.  Not sure who/if any are recruiting him but he has been listed as a top 20 player in Indiana for his grade.


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## nwi stater

4Q_iu said:


> Very little difference, as politics, the entertainment world and indiana hs basketball are pretty comical.
> 
> END CLASS BASKETBALL



Class basketball, the death of Hoosier Hysteria


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## Bally #50

Right on! I agree with you guys all the way, and I come from a state with FIVE classes. I attended one of the last single-class championships with Damon Bailey and BNL at the RCA Dome and I can tell you that was a moment I will NEVER forget. Unfortunately, that will never happen again, period.


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## egc1985

i like class basketball. makes competition even.  a school with 300 kids has less athletes to choose from than a school that has over 2000.


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## SycamoreFan317

egc1985 said:


> i like class basketball. makes competition even.  a school with 300 kids has less athletes to choose from than a school that has over 2000.



What message are you sending the students with 300 enrollment. Is it "You can not compete so we are not going to try?" Life is not that way, colleges do not care if they are from an enrollment of 300 or 4000 neither do employers. Winning is not everything, learning to give the maximum when the challenge seems impossible is just, if not, more important. All class basketball has done is too widen the level of play between the classes and (2) most 4A schools will no longer schedule 1A schools because they have nothing to gain.This ends up hurting the athletes from the 1A schools because they do not get challenged to the maximum and most colleges want to see players against top flight competition this is why recruiting now revolves around AAU, especially for 1A players.


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## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreFan317 said:


> What message are you sending the students with 300 enrollment. Is it "You can not compete so we are not going to try?" Life is not that way, colleges do not care if they are from an enrollment of 300 or 4000 neither do employers. Winning is not everything, learning to give the maximum when the challenge seems impossible is just, if not, more important. All class basketball has done is too widen the level of play between the classes and (2) most 4A schools will no longer schedule 1A schools because they have nothing to gain.This ends up hurting the athletes from the 1A schools because they do not get challenged to the maximum and most colleges want to see players against top flight competition this is why recruiting now revolves around AAU, especially for 1A players.


I support this 100%.


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## mohoops247

KAPat1865 said:


> Who is recruiting O'leary and Blank?



I'm not sure who is recruiting Blank, but I do know he has attracted a good amount of interest for football and is well known around the state in basketball circles.  

As for O'Leary, Evansville, Ball State, and Eastern Kentucky are the D1s that have probably shown the most interest.  He has spoken to coaches from all three quite a few times, and he was invited to and participated in Evansville's Elite Camp this summer, attended Eastern Kentucky's junior day, and had Ball State coaches come watch him in to open gym this fall.  He has also been in contact with NAIA, D2, and D3 schools as well. 

Here's a recruiting website for O'Leary:
www.mattoleary2012.com

Here's one for THN PG Tommie Bolden too:  
www.tommiebolden.com


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## dr. bucket

i can't wait for a union-dugger-north central (indianapolis) match-up

no offense meant to union-dugger


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## dr. bucket

KAPat1865 said:


> http://www.indystar.com/article/20101109/SPORTS02/101109028/?odyssey=mod|dnmiss|sports
> 
> Here is a link to the Indy Star's Fab 15. I know that this has the potential to include the Terre Haute schools because south was on this a few years ago. Looks like it may be a rough season in the MIC for THS/N. You can click on year team and there is a write up about what to expect and who are the key players. Most all of these teams have 1 or 2 or maybe 3 Division 1 recruits. I still will argue Indianapolis basketball per capita is the best in the country.



best recruiters without a doubt


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## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> South isn't going to be very good, but North is pretty loaded.  They have one definite D-1 in Gant, one possible in O'Leary, and one who could be in two sports in Blank.  They will probably be 6'8, 6'7, and 6'6 across front line.  Two pretty good shooters, and small college prospects in Sponselor and Shipley.  PG has been a question mark, but I've heard that Bolden has out-played Jones who is a two-year starter.  North is also loaded from 6th grade through 9th grade.
> 
> On a side note the Woodrow Wilson 7th grade is the best middle school team I've ever seen.  Their closest game has been 16 points and their starters played about one quarter.



it's an assembled team


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## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> it's an assembled team



Uh, so.  They're good.


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## Bally #50

dr. bucket said:


> i can't wait for a union-dugger-north central (indianapolis) match-up
> 
> no offense meant to union-dugger


No offense to you either Doc, but Union-Dugger (I am not a Hoosier so I am assuming this school is similar to Milan) would not have played against any upper level schools UNTIL the tourney started. Once the tourney is on, GAME ON! Then it's survival of the fittest time and anything goes. Milan did it against Munice Central and if the movie was to happen again, Union-Duggar could beat North Central. What I remember of the one-class tourney is that is what made it special. The little guy beating the big guy or David Vs. Goliath. Take that away and look what you have. A disorganized, disjointed tourney that most people could care less about. Instead of 40,000 watching Damon Bailey in the RCA Dome, they have 16,000 in a good year, and that's for TWO games. DRAMA? There is none. I couldn't even watch the game on TV because it wasn't on satellite. I could have in the old days.


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## Chief_Quabachi

School consolidation has had some influence on rivalries also, IMHO. The county I went to in high school had 10 schools during my Jr.  high school days.
By my Sophomore year there were only three. 

Remember the Wabash Valley Tournament? There were hundreds of schools from IN and IL as participants. I believe it was recognized as the second largest tournament in the U.S..

Just my thoughts that class competition is not the sole cause for fan interest and attendance.

Sidenote: I sat in Butler Fieldhouse as a not quite 10 yr. old and watched my Montezuma Aztecs lose to Milam and Bobby Plump. I've detested the stall strategy ever since as that is what Milam employed in the 4th quarter.
Second game was Crispus Attucks(Oscar Robertson) v.s. Muncie Central(Ron Bonham). http://www.sycamorehoops.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


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## Bally #50

Chief_Quabachi said:


> School consolidation has had some influence on rivalries also, IMHO. The county I went to in high school had 10 schools during my Jr.  high school days.
> By my Sophomore year there were only three.
> 
> Remember the Wabash Valley Tournament? There were hundreds of schools from IN and IL as participants. I believe it was recognized as the second largest tournament in the U.S..
> 
> Just my thoughts that class competition is not the sole cause for fan interest and attendance.
> 
> Sidenote: I sat in Butler Fieldhouse as a not quite 10 yr. old and watched my Montezuma Aztecs lose to Milam and Bobby Plump. I've detested the stall strategy ever since as that is what Milam employed in the 4th quarter.
> Second game was Crispus Attucks(Oscar Robertson) v.s. Muncie Central(Ron Bonham). http://www.sycamorehoops.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


If the Aztecs would have beaten Milan, would it have been Montezuma's revenge? (sorry I couldn't resist)!


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## SycamoreFan317

As far as David vs Goliath, last night in girls basketball it was Turkey Run 52 and Terre Haute North 19........ouch!


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## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> Uh, so.  They're good.



what about no permits for athletic reasons or are there fake addresses being used. if they are playing against no one how good are they really. do they just steal the ball and run or can they play? sadly we'll never know but they will get some practice for aau.

parents can be crazy.


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## True Blue

SycamoreFan317 said:


> As far as David vs Goliath, last night in girls basketball it was Turkey Run 52 and Terre Haute North 19........ouch!



That's nothing to really brag about.  North girls will be lucky to win a game this year.  At most 3.


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## Callmedoc

I saw in the newspaper today a score in girl's high school bball
Vincennes Rivet 82
Shakamak 11 with having a quarter of not even scoring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am worried about my Wildcats of Mount Vernon being pretty terrible...The coaching Carousel continues there...


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## landrus13

North has very good athletes on the girls squad. They will most definitely win more than 3 games. They play the West Vigo girls who are like 19-120 in the last 6 seasons. DeGroote said we should get rid of all girls sports out here, because none of them are any good except for softball.


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## Sycamore Proud

Hoosier Hysteria was in critical condition before class basketball.  As with most generalizations, there will be a few exceptions to this statement.  But statewide basketball was decreasing in interest before the introduction of class basketball.  Reasons for this??  I believe there are many:  more kids having more money, more widespread interests and ease of transportation to follow there interests, and finally the increased popularity of high school football--especially with adults on limited income.  I base my position on my observations of high school sports over the last 50+ years.  You can not like class basketball; to blame it as the sole cause of the decline of Hoosier Hysteria is simply ridiculous.


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## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> North has very good athletes on the girls squad. They will most definitely win more than 3 games. They play the West Vigo girls who are like 19-120 in the last 6 seasons. DeGroote said we should get rid of all girls sports out here, because none of them are any good except for softball.



Looking at their schedule they have 3 possible wins.  Northview, West Vigo, and South Vermillion.  I think Northview is better, WV is improved, they will beat SV.  They also have a chance to run into some weaker teams in this. weekends Tip-off classic.  They will not win a conference game.  I hope I'm wrong as a North almost, but I will stick to my 3 win prediction.


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## landrus13

Doesn't North play Riverton Parke?


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## SycamoreFBGM

SycamoreFan317 said:


> As far as David vs Goliath, last night in girls basketball it was Turkey Run 52 and Terre Haute North 19........ouch!



Went to this game last night and it wasn't even really this close.  North was down 43-9 at the end of 3 and still played their rotation of 8 in the 4th while Turkey Run played their JV players and a few bench players in the 4th.


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## SycamoreFBGM

jlandrus23 said:


> Doesn't North play Riverton Parke?



No. Not in boys or girls.  Only way they would play in boys Varsity would be at Pizza Hut.  And after seeing North play last night Im not so sure they would want to play Riverton Parke's girls this year.  They will be pretty good.


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## Syc70

You forgot the benign neglect of the Indianapolis Star in regards to High School basketball.  With the advent of professional sports in Indianapolis, the Star has 4-5 pages covering the NFL and NBA and no longer covers the state beyond the "donut counties."  This has more to do with the demise of our "treasured tournament" than many of the other reasons.  The Star wonders why the Indiana/Kentucky All-Star game has declined.  Look in the mirror Indianapolis Star!


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## Sycamore Proud

Syc70 said:


> You forgot the benign neglect of the Indianapolis Star in regards to High School basketball.  With the advent of professional sports in Indianapolis, the Star has 4-5 pages covering the NFL and NBA and no longer covers the state beyond the "donut counties."  This has more to do with the demise of our "treasured tournament" than many of the other reasons.  The Star wonders why the Indiana/Kentucky All-Star game has declined.  Look in the mirror Indianapolis Star!



True!  And high school coverage is better than college coverage except for the privileged biggies.


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## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> Looking at their schedule they have 3 possible wins.  Northview, West Vigo, and South Vermillion.  I think Northview is better, WV is improved, they will beat SV.  They also have a chance to run into some weaker teams in this. weekends Tip-off classic.  They will not win a conference game.  I hope I'm wrong as a North almost, but I will stick to my 3 win prediction.



i think they played without a couple starters


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## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> i think they played without a couple starters



That's true, they did.  I'm still giving them 3 wins.  Maybe 4 because they may get West Vigo twice.  If both teams lose tonight, they will play in this tournament.  Although, South Vermillion played TH South much better than I expected.  I know they lost by like 40, but South's pretty good and that game has been uglier in the past.


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## sycamore fan

SycamoreFan317 said:


> What message are you sending the students with 300 enrollment. Is it "You can not compete so we are not going to try?" Life is not that way, colleges do not care if they are from an enrollment of 300 or 4000 neither do employers. Winning is not everything, learning to give the maximum when the challenge seems impossible is just, if not, more important. All class basketball has done is too widen the level of play between the classes and (2) most 4A schools will no longer schedule 1A schools because they have nothing to gain.This ends up hurting the athletes from the 1A schools because they do not get challenged to the maximum and most colleges want to see players against top flight competition this is why recruiting now revolves around AAU, especially for 1A players.



That's funny...most of the teams on our schedule are from classes larger than ours.  I hope you don't tell them to stop scheduling us.  High school AD's want to play teams who bring in big crowds. The small schools outdraw the big schools around here.

To be honest colleges don't give a rip about high school basketball.  They come to support kids after they've already found them on the AAU scene.

Class basketball didn't change anything except the end of the year tourney.  Most forget that interest was dying long before we made the change.  If there was really a huge push to go back to the old days, we would have done it.  There isn't and we haven't.


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## SycamoreFan317

sycamore fan said:


> That's funny...most of the teams on our schedule are from classes larger than ours.  I hope you don't tell them to stop scheduling us.  High school AD's want to play teams who bring in big crowds. The small schools outdraw the big schools around here.
> 
> To be honest colleges don't give a rip about high school basketball.  They come to support kids after they've already found them on the AAU scene.
> 
> Class basketball didn't change anything except the end of the year tourney.  Most forget that interest was dying long before we made the change.  If there was really a huge push to go back to the old days, we would have done it.  There isn't and we haven't.



If a 1A or 2A has a competitive program then the 3A or 4A programs will schedule them. Some conferences have a wide range enrollment wise and the schools have to schedule one another. If you think I am wrong just go to John Harold's website and look at the 4A schedule and see how many of them schedule 1A or 2A teams on a regular basis. 

I agree that in this day and age colleges scout AAU more now than they use too and class basketball is a big reason why. Back before class basketball AAU barely existed and colleges scouted the high school games because there were no alternatives and the kids from 1A or 2A schools got to play the better competition, now those kids have to play AAU in order to get noticed the kids from the 4A programs will be noticed anyway. The push to go to class basketball started in the early 1980's by the small schools and it took them until they could get enough principals on the board at the IHSAA to get it passed.  There has been a push to go back but the small schools have the votes to block it. 

I do not contend that class basketball has ruined the tournament but I do think it has changed Hoosier Hysteria and not for the better as a whole. The level of play between 4A and 1A has gotten more noticeable as the years go by. I believe it sends the wrong message to the students of the small schools that they are not capable of competing against the bigger schools that somehow the kid from Ben Davis is better than them just because they have Ben Davis across their chest, this is hogwash. Life is not about winning all of the time it is also about learning to deal with frustration of no matter how hard you try, it just is not good enough. Last of all if and AD is scheduling teams just for the gate, and no other reason, then that AD is guilty of exploiting the students and should be fired. There are better ways for schools to make money.


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## landrus13

Take a look at the North girls, they are starting to schedule Turkey Run every year now that Turkey Run is a distinguished 1A power in girls basketball. It also gives North a measuring stick on where they are at. It doesn't look good for North getting beat by a 1A school, especially when they begin the state tournament.


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## dr. bucket

i think high schools with 4,500 students didn't exist in the distant haze of the past of Milan's glory years


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## dr. bucket

jlandrus23 said:


> Take a look at the North girls, they are starting to schedule Turkey Run every year now that Turkey Run is a distinguished 1A power in girls basketball. It also gives North a measuring stick on where they are at. It doesn't look good for North getting beat by a 1A school, especially when they begin the state tournament.



counting this year, they have played them 11 straight years (and maybe more)


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## sycamore fan

jlandrus23 said:


> Take a look at the North girls, they are starting to schedule Turkey Run every year now that Turkey Run is a distinguished 1A power in girls basketball. It also gives North a measuring stick on where they are at. It doesn't look good for North getting beat by a 1A school, especially when they begin the state tournament.



I love the Turks and the win over North was great!....but a distinguished 1A power?  They have a great class going through.  You might check the records before this group and then follow them after this class is done.


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## landrus13

They have been very good throughout this decade, except for 3 years in the middle of this decade where they finished under .500. They have had some very solid teams this decade, they have even had a player go to IU on a full athletic scholarship.


----------



## True Blue

As a fan of 4A schools, North and South, this is how I like they're schedule to be set up.  7 conference games against 4a, 10 against other 4a, 1-2 against 3a, and 1-2  against 1a.  That's how they're usually set up.  You want to be challenged against teams your own size,  play your smaller rival(WV), and a couple "gimme" games that aren't always gimmes.  South plays Rockville now every year since Mahurin went to south.


----------



## TH_Sycamore12

KAPat1865 said:


> http://www.indystar.com/article/20101109/SPORTS02/101109028/?odyssey=mod|dnmiss|sports
> 
> Here is a link to the Indy Star's Fab 15. I know that this has the potential to include the Terre Haute schools because south was on this a few years ago. Looks like it may be a rough season in the MIC for THS/N. You can click on year team and there is a write up about what to expect and who are the key players. Most all of these teams have 1 or 2 or maybe 3 Division 1 recruits. I still will argue Indianapolis basketball per capita is the best in the country.



That Kyle Neddenreip is an idiot.


----------



## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> As a fan of 4A schools, North and South, this is how I like they're schedule to be set up.  7 conference games against 4a, 10 against other 4a, 1-2 against 3a, and 1-2  against 1a.  That's how they're usually set up.  You want to be challenged against teams your own size,  play your smaller rival(WV), and a couple "gimme" games that aren't always gimmes.  South plays Rockville now every year since Mahurin went to south.



you can play 18 regular season games unless you are in a tournament (such as wabash valley) then you can add four more


----------



## sycamore fan

I completely understand the sentimental longing for the days of Bobby Plump, the underdog small school, and all kinds of stuff related to the 50’s and 60’s.   The truth is…that stuff wasn’t happening anymore.  High school hoops was dying long before the change to multi-class. Remember...there wasn’t much else to do back in the old days.  You either went to the high school game or listened to the radio!

The vote to change to the multi-class system was decisive.  There has been no real effort to revert back to the old days.  Very few school administrators seem to even want to discuss it. 

For a 1A school we play TH South, Noblesville, Indy Chatard, Frankfort, West Vigo..etc...  We also had invitations to play Zionsville and Richmond.  We're not a 1A power, but we do bring lots of fans and it does not seem embarrassing to play us.  I'm not sure why.  

We have no problem scheduling bigger schools.  It seemed like the class system eliminated small vs big school games at first, but they’ve been coming back more and more each year.  Since everyone makes the tourney, it's not like you have to earn BCS-type rating points by strength of schedule.

Money drives lots of scheduling decisions.  If my AD skipped a chance for a big payday gate, I'd find a new AD.  Would you rather your kids sell candy bars door to door or make money playing a big game in front of a big crowd?  That's not exploitation, that's common sense.

We never tell our kids they can't compete.  We never expect to lose regardless of whom we play.  The reality is… we're not going to beat the big boys too often.  I do love trying though.  

What class basketball eliminated was Riverton Parke playing in the Terre Haute Sectional.  On their best year they might be able to upset a North or a South, but they were not going to beat North, South, Northview, and West Vigo in the same year.  Purists will say “why not,” but the reality was that they simply never did.  You could count the number of games SV and RP won in the old TH sectional on one hand (especially if you didn’t count the games when they played each other).


----------



## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> you can play 18 regular season games unless you are in a tournament (such as wabash valley) then you can add four more



I think it is 20.  Then if your in a tournament you get up to 22.  Muncie Central plays in no tourney,  but has 20 games scheduled.   I maybe wrong though.

  If you add mine up it comes to 21, so thats pretty right on.  They both usually play 1 1a school(sometimes 2) in that tournament and 1 regular season(rockville, Turkey Run, and Bloomfield) are the usual ones.  North has all 4a, 2 3a, and 0 1a on regular season schedule.  South has 2 3a, 1 2a(Bloomfield, which I thought was 1a), and 1 1a(rockville).


----------



## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> I think it is 20.  Then if your in a tournament you get up to 22.  Muncie Central plays in no tourney,  but has 20 games scheduled.   I maybe wrong though.
> 
> If you add mine up it comes to 21, so thats pretty right on.  They both usually play 1 1a school(sometimes 2) in that tournament and 1 regular season(rockville, Turkey Run, and Bloomfield) are the usual ones.  North has all 4a, 2 3a, and 0 1a on regular season schedule.  South has 2 3a, 1 2a(Bloomfield, which I thought was 1a), and 1 1a(rockville).



you're right


----------



## BallyHooHoo

egc1985 said:


> i like class basketball. makes competition even.  a school with 300 kids has less athletes to choose from than a school that has over 2000.



Sounds a bit communist.  "lets give everyone a chance"  Screw that.  Down with class basketball.

FYI I went to a small school.


----------



## Gotta Hav

SycamoreFan317 said:


> What message are you sending the students with 300 enrollment. Is it "You can not compete so we are not going to try?" Life is not that way, colleges do not care if they are from an enrollment of 300 or 4000 neither do employers. Winning is not everything, learning to give the maximum when the challenge seems impossible is just, if not, more important. All class basketball has done is too widen the level of play between the classes and (2) most 4A schools will no longer schedule 1A schools because they have nothing to gain.This ends up hurting the athletes from the 1A schools because they do not get challenged to the maximum and most colleges want to see players against top flight competition this is why recruiting now revolves around AAU, especially for 1A players.



I oppose 50% of this.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Just think about it for a moment.  If one high school basketball player (Bobby Plump) had missed the last shot of his high school career, this whole class basketball discussion would most likely never have taken place.  And the best sports movie of all time, Hoosiers, would never have been made.  Personally, I love the movie and hate the bickering.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

I miss single-class basketball just for the simple fact that was the only time Vincennes Lincoln would win!  Now they have won 1 since class.  Should have won about 7 but our coach was a straight idiot.  I remember as a kid going to Evansville and watch Lincoln in Regionals and Semi-State.  Got absolutely hosed in the semi-state against Bloomington North. Duany Duany dominated!  Lincoln lost by 2.  I was heartbroken!


----------



## 4Q_iu

dr. bucket said:


> i think high schools with 4,500 students didn't exist in the distant haze of the past of Milan's glory years



Muncie Central was approximately 10 times larger than Milan.

There are 750 HS in the 1950s IHSAA tournament; today there are 300 and change, the 1950 population in Indiana was ~4M people; (today it's 6M), Indiana's rural areas are becoming more rural, it's urban areas are becoming more urban.

HS basketball was still HUGE in 1997; I don't remember it 'suffering' -- attendance may have platued but it wasn't in 'critical condition.'

Moving to class basketball was simply about SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches who wanted to FINALLY win a IHSAA Sectional. Period.  Nothing more.


----------



## sycamore fan

4Q_iu said:


> Muncie Central was approximately 10 times larger than Milan.
> 
> There are 750 HS in the 1950s IHSAA tournament; today there are 300 and change, the 1950 population in Indiana was ~4M people; (today it's 6M), Indiana's rural areas are becoming more rural, it's urban areas are becoming more urban.
> 
> HS basketball was still HUGE in 1997; I don't remember it 'suffering' -- attendance may have platued but it wasn't in 'critical condition.'
> 
> Moving to class basketball was simply about SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches who wanted to FINALLY win a IHSAA Sectional. Period.  Nothing more.



More baseless mumbo-jumbo...There are as many large high schools as there are small high schools...the classes are divided into 4 equal units.  So how did the equal number of "SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches" manipulate the vote into the overwhelming decision?


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamore fan said:


> More baseless mumbo-jumbo...There are as many large high schools as there are small high schools...the classes are divided into 4 equal units.  So how did the equal number of "SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches" manipulate the vote into the overwhelming decision?



Look up the votes on class basketball; they only people FOR IT were the 1A schools today.

The move to class basketball killed HS basketball in Indiana; folks can blame urbanization, cable tv, the Colts, crappy coverage by the Indy Star, etc, etc.

As to the classes, well of course there are '4 equal units' -- but that's simply a matter of moving the cutoff numbers to ensure each class has an equitable number of school in it.  It DOESN"T mean that each 4A school has the same number of kids, nor does it mean that there is a 1A school that cooresponds to a 4A school.


----------



## dr. bucket

the past is over; life is change


----------



## sycamorebacker

4Q_iu said:


> Look up the votes on class basketball; they only people FOR IT were the 1A schools today.



So what? Why would a  big school be for it.  They were being handed an easy ride to the regional or beyond.   Of course they had nothing to gain and everything to lose.  It's fun clobbering their little neighbors, usually on their home court. 
Class ball has nothing to do with the popularity.  Why do fans blast class bball and accept class football?  You can't argue both ways.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Should the NCAA be one single tournament with no classes?


----------



## landrus13

Have any of you guys been to the 2010 Terre Haute Tip-Off Classic at West Vigo yet?

I haven't been yet, but all 4 games so far have been blowouts.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

4Q_iu said:


> Muncie Central was approximately 10 times larger than Milan.
> 
> There are 750 HS in the 1950s IHSAA tournament; today there are 300 and change, the 1950 population in Indiana was ~4M people; (today it's 6M), Indiana's rural areas are becoming more rural, it's urban areas are becoming more urban.
> 
> HS basketball was still HUGE in 1997; I don't remember it 'suffering' -- attendance may have platued but it wasn't in 'critical condition.'
> 
> Moving to class basketball was simply about SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches who wanted to FINALLY win a IHSAA Sectional. Period.  Nothing more.



4Q I tried to tell him this earlier in this thread and he just blew it off as he is now, but you are correct.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

sycamore fan said:


> More baseless mumbo-jumbo...There are as many large high schools as there are small high schools...the classes are divided into 4 equal units.  So how did the equal number of "SMALL/TINY/MICRO HS Principals, ADs and Coaches" manipulate the vote into the overwhelming decision?



It is called IHSAA board of directors and the executive committee that is made up of members from the board of directors.


----------



## landrus13

Scores from November 12 at Tip-Off Classic.

Game 5: South Vermillion 62, North Central 31

Game 6: West Vigo 38, Northview 33


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> Scores from November 12 at Tip-Off Classic.
> 
> Game 5: South Vermillion 62, North Central 31
> 
> Game 6: West Vigo 38, Northview 33



Have u heard Terre Haute south and/or North score from today?


----------



## landrus13

Terre Haute South 49, Owen Valley 25

Greencastle 52, Terre Haute North 37

West Vigo 18, South Vermillion 14, 3Q


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> Terre Haute South 49, Owen Valley 25
> 
> Greencastle 52, Terre Haute North 37
> 
> West Vigo 18, South Vermillion 14, 3Q



Thanks


----------



## landrus13

West Vigo 40, South Vermillion 25

Consolation: Owen Valley vs. Terre Haute North  6:30

Championship: Terre Haute South vs. Greencastle  8pm


----------



## landrus13

Consolation: Owen Valley 57, Terre Haute North 32

Championship: Terre Haute South 68, Greencastle 39


----------



## landrus13

Scores from Tuesday November 16
Bloomington South 48, Terre Haute South 39
West Vigo 54, White River Valley 19
Bloomington North 42, Terre Haute North 27
Turkey Run 58, Crawfordsville 32
Riverton Parke 36, Northview 26


----------



## Sycamore Proud

jlandrus23 said:


> Scores from Tuesday November 16
> Bloomington South 48, Terre Haute South 39
> West Vigo 54, White River Valley 19
> Bloomington North 42, Terre Haute North 27
> Turkey Run 58, Crawfordsville 32
> Riverton Parke 36, Northview 26



Girls scores aren't they?


----------



## SycamoreFBGM

Sycamore Proud said:


> Girls scores aren't they?



Ya those were girls scores.


----------



## 4Q_iu

SycamoreFan317 said:


> 4Q I tried to tell him this earlier in this thread and he just blew it off as he is now, but you are correct.



Give me the weekend to research and crunch numbers; I have copies of the final vote; by school and their 1998 class placement.

No learned Indiana HS Basketball fan should be surprised.

Not sure why someone mentioned the NCAA, that's kind of irrelevant :krazy:


----------



## Sackalot

We argue this constantly, but love it or hate it class basketball facts are out there.  Attendance is down over 75%.  The IHSAA has not sold out the state finals consistently and as a generalized statement, communities just don't care as much as they used to about HS basketball.  You can say that "in your town" or "at my high school" basketball is still popular and we sell out, or we would have a full house.  But regardless of all that, HS basketball in Indiana was ruined with the creation of Class basketball in my estimation.  I killed most local rivalries, it created idiotic drives for schools to have to make, it disinterested most fans, it frustrated and ultimately lead to national networks such as ESPN not carrying the state finals as they did for many years, it has lead to an amazing shortfall in funds within athletic deptments at many schools (because they are not selling tickets and merch).  

You can argue that it is more fair, you can argue that is ideal, etc. etc.  BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!  Class basketball sucks!  It always will!  Just like Class Football sucks and Class anything else sucks!  It is a result of the over concern of HS administrators to be concerned about feelings and emotional matters, rather than understanding that a school like Western Boone playing a school like Ben Davis teaches a great deal of to both schools.  If WEBO gets their butt kicked the players learn a lesson...if WEBO wins the Giants of BD learn something.  But either way, the experience is valid and important to development.  This is not to say that if WEBO only played similar sized schools they woudn't learn the same lesson, but IMHO it isn't the same lesson.  In other words, sometimes the big guy needs to kick the little guys ass so the little guy learns a lesson and sometimes the big guy needs to get their ass kicked by the little guy.  Basketball allows that to happen (at least it did back when it was allowed to happen that way).  Now it doesn't...because only similar sized schools play each other.  It makes it boring!!  

Going out on a limb here but isn't it a Communist concept to make sure that everythign is fair and even?  Life isn't fair or even, yet we want to teach our kids through sports that things are fair and even?  Utterly ridiculous!  The concept of parody for HS's is beyond stupid.  There is no such thing as parody.  THE IHSAA is a political organization by design and they politically created somethign that they know is causing them problems and is not the best things for the student athletes, the fans and the sport itself...but they are too busy listening to supposed "studies" and propoganda about the effects of everything from the internet to a student reading Harry Potter books...waste of time and effort.  here is the reality, student athelets playing in a dog eat dog, best team is the champion tournament teaches a much, much more important life lesson than simply printing 4 state champ trophies does.  Current national adminstration's answer to everything is to print more money and look where we are now....IHSAA's answer to everything....make more trophies and forget about history, forget about the importance of tradition, blow off the important lessons that can be learned by watering down those lessons, and so many other issues.  If you hadn't figured it out yet...I HATE CLASS BASKETBALL!! 

CLASS BASKETBALL SUCKS!!!!  IT WILL ALWAYS SUCK!!!


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sackalot said:


> We argue this constantly, but love it or hate it class basketball facts are out there.  Attendance is down over 75%.  The IHSAA has not sold out the state finals consistently and as a generalized statement, communities just don't care as much as they used to about HS basketball.  You can say that "in your town" or "at my high school" basketball is still popular and we sell out, or we would have a full house.  But regardless of all that, HS basketball in Indiana was ruined with the creation of Class basketball in my estimation.  I killed most local rivalries, it created idiotic drives for schools to have to make, it disinterested most fans, it frustrated and ultimately lead to national networks such as ESPN not carrying the state finals as they did for many years, it has lead to an amazing shortfall in funds within athletic deptments at many schools (because they are not selling tickets and merch).
> 
> You can argue that it is more fair, you can argue that is ideal, etc. etc.  BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!  Class basketball sucks!  It always will!  Just like Class Football sucks and Class anything else sucks!  It is a result of the over concern of HS administrators to be concerned about feelings and emotional matters, rather than understanding that a school like Western Boone playing a school like Ben Davis teaches a great deal of to both schools.  If WEBO gets their butt kicked the players learn a lesson...if WEBO wins the Giants of BD learn something.  But either way, the experience is valid and important to development.  This is not to say that if WEBO only played similar sized schools they woudn't learn the same lesson, but IMHO it isn't the same lesson.  In other words, sometimes the big guy needs to kick the little guys ass so the little guy learns a lesson and sometimes the big guy needs to get their ass kicked by the little guy.  Basketball allows that to happen (at least it did back when it was allowed to happen that way).  Now it doesn't...because only similar sized schools play each other.  It makes it boring!!
> 
> Going out on a limb here but isn't it a Communist concept to make sure that everythign is fair and even?  Life isn't fair or even, yet we want to teach our kids through sports that things are fair and even?  Utterly ridiculous!  The concept of parody for HS's is beyond stupid.  There is no such thing as parody.  THE IHSAA is a political organization by design and they politically created somethign that they know is causing them problems and is not the best things for the student athletes, the fans and the sport itself...but they are too busy listening to supposed "studies" and propoganda about the effects of everything from the internet to a student reading Harry Potter books...waste of time and effort.  here is the reality, student athelets playing in a dog eat dog, best team is the champion tournament teaches a much, much more important life lesson than simply printing 4 state champ trophies does.  Current national adminstration's answer to everything is to print more money and look where we are now....IHSAA's answer to everything....make more trophies and forget about history, forget about the importance of tradition, blow off the important lessons that can be learned by watering down those lessons, and so many other issues.  If you hadn't figured it out yet...I HATE CLASS BASKETBALL!!
> 
> CLASS BASKETBALL SUCKS!!!!  IT WILL ALWAYS SUCK!!!



In 1973, the Indiana High School Athletic Association (IHSAA) established a three class state playoff system in football. In 1983, the tournament split into four classes, in 1985 into the current five class system, with 5A for big schools and 1A for the smallest schools.

Are 5 classes too many?? Probably; football should be in classes.  The rest of the sports?!  Absolutely NOT!


----------



## landrus13

Anybody going to the Jamboree tonight at Terre Haute South?

Teams: Terre Haute North, Terre Haute South, West Vigo, and South Vermillion

It starts at 7pm tonight at Terre Haute South High School. I will be there to support my Vikings, and Justin Gant.


----------



## Sackalot

4Q_iu said:


> In 1973, the Indiana High School Athletic Association (IHSAA) established a three class state playoff system in football. In 1983, the tournament split into four classes, in 1985 into the current five class system, with 5A for big schools and 1A for the smallest schools.
> 
> Are 5 classes too many?? Probably; football should be in classes.  The rest of the sports?!  Absolutely NOT!



I understand the arguement for class football more than anything...but still, I am not a fan of class anything.  It sends the wrong message...just like youth soccer where there is no winner sends the wrong message to kids.  (I realize that is apples to oranges comparison but still similar points).


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sackalot said:


> I understand the arguement for class football more than anything...but still, I am not a fan of class anything.  It sends the wrong message...just like youth soccer where there is no winner sends the wrong message to kids.  (I realize that is apples to oranges comparison but still similar points).



Football is the only one that makes sense, then and now.

To me, the question is why 5 and not 4 like everything else (except soccer...)

More interestingly; when the vote was taken, there were some that advocated all sports in classes EXCEPT Basketball...

As the GOAL was to CLASSIFY Basketball, no one was interested in the other sports.


----------



## landrus13

Scores from tonight's jamboree:

1st Quarter: Terre Haute North 24, South Vermillion 6

2nd Quarter: Terre Haute South 19, West Vigo 8

3rd Quarter: Terre Haute South 17, Terre Haute North 11

4th Quarter: West Vigo 15, South Vermillion 11


----------



## SycamoreFBGM

Sackalot said:


> I understand the arguement for class football more than anything...but still, I am not a fan of class anything.  It sends the wrong message...just like youth soccer where there is no winner sends the wrong message to kids.  (I realize that is apples to oranges comparison but still similar points).



How does it send the wrong message?  You win a state championship in Class A does it not mean anything to you?  It isn't like there are 25 different classes for basketball.


----------



## TH_Sycamore12

jlandrus23 said:


> 3rd Quarter: Terre Haute South 17, Terre Haute North 11



What happened? I didn't think my Braves would be that good this year. I know it's only a jamboree, but hey. Are things looking good for THS?


----------



## Callmedoc

I thought West Vigo could/would beat South????


----------



## Callmedoc

True Story: I once saw a 1A school straight up school a 5A school...I mean run them off the court...there was at least 4 dunks that deserved to be on sportscenter...It wasn't in this state but comparing the classes they are same...now granted that team had two future NBA players on it...and the team they were playing was especially terrible..


----------



## landrus13

In that North-South quarter, North sat their starters for a good 5 minutes of that quarter, and the South subs played better than the starters did. They took out their starters against us and it was 8-8, then the subs rattled off 11 unanswered points to win 19-8, but our starters were also on the bench.


----------



## BlueBleeder

TH_Sycamore12 said:


> What happened? I didn't think my Braves would be that good this year. I know it's only a jamboree, but hey. Are things looking good for THS?



It was one of those things where coaches mix things up a bit to see who plays well with who...North split up the starters and when Gant was in the game south didn't do too much.  After Gant came out, it open up the paint and South moved the ball much better opening up drive and dish opportunities that lead to several open threes.  Anthony McGill got hot and so did a couple other players.  

On a side note...Things got chippy between some North and South players in the jamboree....could bode for some interesting games later in the season if the emotions are high like they seemed to be last night.  

Gant looks really good folks!  He has put on 5-10 pounds of muscle since last year and looks to be in great shape.  He runs the floor better than most bigs and has a nice shooting touch.  He was playing very aggresive and made several outstanding moves in the paint....one in particular caught my eye.  Gant had the ball and drove left baseline a defender tried to cut off the baseline path to the rim, but Gant quickly spun over his left shoulder, maintained ball control rose and went up and under to the opposite side for a sweet looking lay-up.  It was a play you usually see from a guard, not a 6'9" post player.


----------



## landrus13

He also dunked on South Vermillion in the first quarter, over 6'5" Harpeneau.


----------



## True Blue

North has a chance to make a deep run this year.  Gant is GOOD people.  Big-time get for us.  

South surprised me to the good. They're better than I thought, but with that schedule, its going to be a long year.

West Vigo was unimpressive.  They'll win some games against weak competition, but wont compete with Sullivan in conference.

South Vermillion is horrible.


----------



## landrus13

West Vigo, IMO was the 2nd best team in the jamboree.


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> West Vigo, IMO was the 2nd best team in the jamboree.



That's quite a statement considering they got outscored 19-8 by Terre Haute South.  Don't give me that crap about WV having subs in.  They had 2 starters in at all times.  Now I respect Boehler and WV might beat South later, buy last night the were 3rd best.  Barely above south vermillion.


----------



## landrus13

Bull crap, we are 2nd in the Wabash Valley, in the South quarter, here was our 2nd five; Lindsay. Wallace, Stewart, Corenflos, and Gilbert. We didn't have any starters in at that point in the quarter, and then we brought our starters back in for the last minute, and South didn't score at all. It's sad when your subs play better than your starters.


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> Bull crap, we are 2nd in the Wabash Valley, in the South quarter, here was our 2nd five; Lindsay. Wallace, Stewart, Corenflos, and Gilbert. We didn't have any starters in at that point in the quarter, and then we brought our starters back in for the last minute, and South didn't score at all. It's sad when your subs play better than your starters.



Wrong.  West, Thornton, or Hauser was in the game at all times.  Even if they weren't, south starters had 8,  West Vigos had 8.  That's a tie.  South's second team outscored yours 11-0.  WV 23 in 2 quarters.  South had 36 and you got to play South Vermillion.  Your also wrong about not scoring in last minute.  South hit a 3 at quarter buzzer.  WV was the 3rd best team there last night.

Since when does the points and play from the bench not count.  It ought to show you that WV has 0 depth.


----------



## landrus13

Your starters were pitiful, if we played a real game, we would have killed you last night. We have depth, we just have a lot of young players. Our 6'5" forward is only a sophomore and has never played a varsity game before. Thornton hardly played at all, he's still battling concussion symptoms.


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> Your starters were pitiful, if we played a real game, we would have killed you last night. We have depth, we just have a lot of young players. Our 6'5" forward is only a sophomore and has never played a varsity game before. Thornton hardly played at all, he's still battling concussion symptoms.



Ok.  We'll see.  I'm a North grad by the way and I still think South looked better than you.  You do realize that South had 3 guys with previous varsity experience don't you?  Nobody on their bench had played a second of varsity basketball and they put in on you.

You need to realize that WV is not very good at sports and are not real respected statewide other than in baseball.


----------



## landrus13

No, just undefeated 3 times in football, probably 100-13 in baseball the last 5 years, and 30-18 in basketball the last 3 years, we are not very good in sports.


----------



## Callmedoc

Landrus other than South Vermilion how competitive were you guys last night???? the answer...not very...


----------



## landrus13

It was our first action without Wampler, how else will you come besides nervous and sloppy?


----------



## Callmedoc

2009-2010 11-12
2008-2009 19-6
2007-2008 11-11
That's WV basketball over the past three years and it is well over 18 losses.... granted they have 41 wins....


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> No, just undefeated 3 times in football, probably 100-13 in baseball the last 5 years, and 30-18 in basketball the last 3 years, we are not very good in sports.



How many basketball and football sectionals, regionals
...has WV won?  Its one thing to beat up on a Clay City.  Its entirely different to beat a Chatard in football or apparently an Edgewood in basketball.


----------



## Callmedoc

Well you can't be the second best team in competition if you are nervous and sloppy...


----------



## dr. bucket

folks, it's a jamboree. means about as much as isu playing rose hulman in an exhibition.

wait until the real games


----------



## landrus13

Edgewood is a power in basketball, they almost beat Princeton that year they went to state, and we only lost to Edgewood by 9, and anybody you talk to that went to our sectional championship game with Edgewood, will tell you that th referees cost us that game, 17 personal fouls to Edgewood's 6. Your going to tell me that West Vigo fouled 11 more times than Edgewood, that's just crazy. And that same year, we came form 17 down to North and only lost by 4. North had, O'Leary, Gant, Anderson, Gauer, and Jones.


----------



## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> folks, it's a jamboree. means about as much as isu playing rose hulman in an exhibition.
> 
> wait until the real games



We know and understand this.  Just having a discussion.


----------



## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> We know and understand this.  Just having a discussion.



but this point makes your discussion moot


----------



## landrus13

I love talking high school basketball, especially local. It's a great topic to talk about, and even better with other fans.


----------



## True Blue

dr. bucket said:


> but this point makes your discussion moot



If u don't like it, don't read it.


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> Edgewood is a power in basketball, they almost beat Princeton that year they went to state, and we only lost to Edgewood by 9, and anybody you talk to that went to our sectional championship game with Edgewood, will tell you that th referees cost us that game, 17 personal fouls to Edgewood's 6. Your going to tell me that West Vigo fouled 11 more times than Edgewood, that's just crazy. And that same year, we came form 17 down to North and only lost by 4. North had, O'Leary, Gant, Anderson, Gauer, and Jones.



Edgewood a power?  In their history they've won 6 sectionals and 0 regionals.  They had a good couple years and that's it.


----------



## landrus13

North and South aren't powers in any sport.


----------



## dr. bucket

True Blue said:


> If u don't like it, don't read it.



how will i know if i like it unless i read it?


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> North and South aren't powers in any sport.



I never said they were.  They're closer than West Vigo.  There are few "powers" anyways. South has won 18 sectionals, been to 5 final 4's, have 10 or 11 Indiana all-stars, and has put a couple in the NBA.   

North has won a state baseball championship and been runner-up another time.  Both more than West Vigo.


----------



## landrus13

West Vigo is 4th all-time in winning percentage in baseball. We have won 3 sectionals in a row. 2 regional titles in the last 3 years, and 1 state finals appearance, how many does North and South have in that time?.......NONE.

And, West Vigo is a power in baseball, by the way.


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> West Vigo is 4th all-time in winning percentage in baseball. We have won 3 sectionals in a row. 2 regional titles in the last 3 years, and 1 state finals appearance, how many does North and South have in that time?.......NONE.
> 
> And, West Vigo is a power in baseball, by the way.



Actually South has won 4 sectionals in a row sand 1-2 regionals and theyve beat WV 2/4 years I believe.  Also, WV never faces North or South's best pitchers.  

Its hard to be a power if you've never won a state championship.


----------



## landrus13

Numerous schools are powers without state titles. West Vigo has beaten AJ Reed, back in 2009. And that is also not our fault, that their coaches didn't pitch their best pitcher, and usually when that happens, West Vigo will pound you in the dirt.


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> Numerous schools are powers without state titles. West Vigo has beaten AJ Reed, back in 2009. And that is also not our fault, that their coaches didn't pitch their best pitcher, and usually when that happens, West Vigo will pound you in the dirt.



You didn't beat Reed in 09.  He pitched that Thursday against North.  You beat Goldman.  North and South play the Thursday and Friday before Saturdays big 4 every year that's why their best don't pitch.   North and south have handled WVV pretty well with their 3,4,  and 5 pitchers.  South's 27-13 all-time against them.  Can't find North's but probably better than South's.

I root for WV baseball though.  I used to coach Lucas and I really like Degroote.  Good luck this year.


----------



## landrus13

We've dominated North lately, beating them I think 3 straight years. We killed them 13-3 in 2009.


----------



## Patriot_Sycamore

back to basketball, the jamboree should be dumped for a scrimmage. Northview got out of the Jamboree and that was a positive for them.


Looked like no injuries last night so that was good. Lets wait till season starts next week. North and South will be tested early. South has Evansvile Reitz and Lawrence North early. North will see Ben Davis and Bloomington South before christmas....should be interesting.


----------



## True Blue

jlandrus23 said:


> We've dominated North lately, beating them I think 3 straight years. We killed them 13-3 in 2009.



2 straight.  They beat u in 08.


----------



## landrus13

West Vigo heads to North Vermillion on Wednesday. I might be going to this game, but not sure yet.


----------



## landrus13

Girl's scores from Saturday November 20:

Terre Haute South 54, Northview 29

South now 5-1, travels to Sullivan on Tuesday. Northview falls to 0-5, hosts Bloomington North on Nov. 30.

Shakamak 48, White River Valley 22

Shakamak now 1-2, travels to Bloomfield on Tuesday. WRV falls to 2-2, hosts Edgewood on Tuesday.


----------



## rgd

JLandrus - how do you think the Vikings would fair against Reed?


----------



## landrus13

It depends on what West Vigo team?

This year?

2010?

2009?


----------



## rgd

Any year that Reed has been in high school?  Maybe they won't pitch him against North this year and save him for WV in the Big 4.


----------



## True Blue

Reed is going to play baseball at Kentucky.  He has the ability to beat anybody everytime he pitches.  With that, 08 he would have(South beat them with their #2), 09 WV was pretty good and crushed South's #2,  last year yes(South beat them with #5), and this year will/would be a resounding yes.  Reed maybe the Mr. Baseball frontrunner and will work in the 88-90 MPH range this year.  He also hit 18 homeruns last year and 16 more in legion ball. Another year of weightroom and he may hit 20+ this year IF he gets pitched to.


----------



## landrus13

I was surprised we pitched to him last year.


----------



## rgd

True Blue:

Very interesting observations regarding Reed.  Do you really think he will be throwing in the "88-90" mph range this year?  I saw him at the Sectional last year against Northview (I think), and the scouts said he was topping out at 83.  A 5 mph increase would be quite a bit, don't you think?


----------



## True Blue

rgd said:


> True Blue:
> 
> Very interesting observations regarding Reed.  Do you really think he will be throwing in the "88-90" mph range this year?  I saw him at the Sectional last year against Northview (I think), and the scouts said he was topping out at 83.  A 5 mph increase would be quite a bit, don't you think?



He was on 3 days rest coming back from arm injury against Northview.  I sat by a scout at the legion Great Lakes Regional and he was 86-87 on 3 days rest after throwing countless complete games the whole month.  Also saw a scout at one of his high school games have him 89 a couple times with a weeks rest.  If he can have a solid, injury free offseason I don't see why not.   Of course there are different readings on different guns.  Personally I think he's overworked as far as pitch counts, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## Patriot_Sycamore

Isnt this a baskeball thread?

:sycamores:


----------



## rgd

Does he get over worked during the high school season, or the Legion season?  And what have been his pitch counts?  You know, there are only so many pitches in an arm.


----------



## Sackalot

SycamoreFBGM said:


> How does it send the wrong message?  You win a state championship in Class A does it not mean anything to you?  It isn't like there are 25 different classes for basketball.



A class basketball championship means nothing to me.  Well it means that your team is one of the 4 best teams in the state and that your team is good enough to beat "that" team but not "THAT" team.  I don't care if there are 2 or 4 or 10, there is no true basketball champ anymore in Indiana and it is a travesty!  

My home town of Brownsburg won the state title in 2008 with Gordon Hayward playing.  First question I asked was could they have beaten Washington HS, or Trtion or Fort Wayne Luers?  The answer I got was probably not from most in the town that had any real knowledge or understanding (considering that they barely won on a last second shot anyway).  That of course is arguable, but regardless that isn't the point.  The point is that HS basketball no longer is about basketball, it is about administrators, it isn't about the kids its about the trophies, it isn't about sectionals or regionals, its only about a state title.  Used to be a HUGE deal to win a sectional, no longer the case...your season isn't a good one unless you go beyond regoinals to semi state.  All this change did was escalate the expectations.  Parody does nothing but waterdown the product.  In this case it waters down the competition and the attendance numbers reflect the fact that the competition has been watered down.  

So in conclusion, a class basketball state title isn't a state title to me.  It is the equivlency of making it to the final four and then not even playing the championships at all.  (That is the best way I can explain my opinion, though I don't think it even ranks that high, because the outcomes would significantly different if the tournament was how it should be).


----------



## landrus13

AJ Reed had surgery this offseason on his left knee. He told me it was his patella or something like that. But, he said he would be ready to go by January.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Sackalot said:


> A class basketball championship means nothing to me.  Well it means that your team is one of the 4 best teams in the state and that your team is good enough to beat "that" team but not "THAT" team.  I don't care if there are 2 or 4 or 10, there is no true basketball champ anymore in Indiana and it is a travesty!
> 
> My home town of Brownsburg won the state title in 2008 with Gordon Hayward playing.  First question I asked was could they have beaten Washington HS, or Trtion or Fort Wayne Luers?  The answer I got was probably not from most in the town that had any real knowledge or understanding (considering that they barely won on a last second shot anyway).  That of course is arguable, but regardless that isn't the point.  The point is that HS basketball no longer is about basketball, it is about administrators, it isn't about the kids its about the trophies, it isn't about sectionals or regionals, its only about a state title.  Used to be a HUGE deal to win a sectional, no longer the case...your season isn't a good one unless you go beyond regoinals to semi state.  All this change did was escalate the expectations.  Parody does nothing but waterdown the product.  In this case it waters down the competition and the attendance numbers reflect the fact that the competition has been watered down.
> 
> So in conclusion, a class basketball state title isn't a state title to me.  It is the equivlency of making it to the final four and then not even playing the championships at all.  (That is the best way I can explain my opinion, though I don't think it even ranks that high, because the outcomes would significantly different if the tournament was how it should be).



Here's an idea for you.  Figure out how many high schools are in Indiana.  Then, have a class for each school.  At the end of the season, each school will have won a state championship!!!  Then, have a Tournament of Champions!!!  It's a win-win...:wordyo:


----------



## landrus13

I think there's pretty close to 400 high schools in Indiana?


----------



## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> Here's an idea for you.  Figure out how many high schools are in Indiana.  Then, have a class for each school.  At the end of the season, each school will have won a state championship!!!  Then, have a Tournament of Champions!!!  It's a win-win...:wordyo:



Hmmmm --- sounds suspiciously like the IHSAA tournament from 1911-1997...


----------



## IndyTreeFan

4Q_iu said:


> Hmmmm --- sounds suspiciously like the IHSAA tournament from 1911-1997...



I have no idea what you are talking about...


----------



## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about...



I'm still looking for the final classification vote --- had the book and then misplaced it...


----------



## sycamorebacker

Sackalot said:


> A class basketball championship means nothing to me.  Well it means that your team is one of the 4 best teams in the state and that your team is good enough to beat "that" team but not "THAT" team.  I don't care if there are 2 or 4 or 10, there is no true basketball champ anymore in Indiana and it is a travesty!
> 
> My home town of Brownsburg won the state title in 2008 with Gordon Hayward playing.  First question I asked was could they have beaten Washington HS, or Trtion or Fort Wayne Luers?  The answer I got was probably not from most in the town that had any real knowledge or understanding (considering that they barely won on a last second shot anyway).  That of course is arguable, but regardless that isn't the point.  The point is that HS basketball no longer is about basketball, it is about administrators, it isn't about the kids its about the trophies, it isn't about sectionals or regionals, its only about a state title.  Used to be a HUGE deal to win a sectional, no longer the case...your season isn't a good one unless you go beyond regoinals to semi state.  All this change did was escalate the expectations.  Parody does nothing but waterdown the product.  In this case it waters down the competition and the attendance numbers reflect the fact that the competition has been watered down.
> 
> So in conclusion, a class basketball state title isn't a state title to me.  It is the equivlency of making it to the final four and then not even playing the championships at all.  (That is the best way I can explain my opinion, though I don't think it even ranks that high, because the outcomes would significantly different if the tournament was how it should be).



Hogwash!


----------



## landrus13

Just got word, that the Lady Vikings improved to 4-1 tonight. As soon as I get the score, I will post it.


----------



## Callmedoc

LOL...I am sorry but any person who says that the IHSAA is just crazy for implementing a class system...you should understand how difficult of a feeling it is as a player to face a school with MORE MONEY, Bigger players, higher paid everything but then say, it's only fair to say they are better than them because they beat that they were outmatched for...I am sorry but I nor the IHSAA shouldn't give a rat's patootie about what the fans care about...it's about the kids...


----------



## SycamoreFBGM

Sackalot said:


> A class basketball championship means nothing to me.  Well it means that your team is one of the 4 best teams in the state and that your team is good enough to beat "that" team but not "THAT" team.  I don't care if there are 2 or 4 or 10, there is no true basketball champ anymore in Indiana and it is a travesty!
> 
> My home town of Brownsburg won the state title in 2008 with Gordon Hayward playing.  First question I asked was could they have beaten Washington HS, or Trtion or Fort Wayne Luers?  The answer I got was probably not from most in the town that had any real knowledge or understanding (considering that they barely won on a last second shot anyway).  That of course is arguable, but regardless that isn't the point.  The point is that HS basketball no longer is about basketball, it is about administrators, it isn't about the kids its about the trophies, it isn't about sectionals or regionals, its only about a state title.  Used to be a HUGE deal to win a sectional, no longer the case...your season isn't a good one unless you go beyond regoinals to semi state.  All this change did was escalate the expectations.  Parody does nothing but waterdown the product.  In this case it waters down the competition and the attendance numbers reflect the fact that the competition has been watered down.
> 
> So in conclusion, a class basketball state title isn't a state title to me.  It is the equivlency of making it to the final four and then not even playing the championships at all.  (That is the best way I can explain my opinion, though I don't think it even ranks that high, because the outcomes would significantly different if the tournament was how it should be).



This is ridiculous.  No shame in winning a state championship at all.  Get over that there is no longer one class in the IHSAA.  It has been 13 years.  Get over it.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Sackalot said:


> A class basketball championship means nothing to me.  Well it means that your team is one of the 4 best teams in the state and that your team is good enough to beat "that" team but not "THAT" team.  I don't care if there are 2 or 4 or 10, there is no true basketball champ anymore in Indiana and it is a travesty!
> 
> My home town of Brownsburg won the state title in 2008 with Gordon Hayward playing.  First question I asked was could they have beaten Washington HS, or Trtion or Fort Wayne Luers?  The answer I got was probably not from most in the town that had any real knowledge or understanding (considering that they barely won on a last second shot anyway).  That of course is arguable, but regardless that isn't the point.  The point is that HS basketball no longer is about basketball, it is about administrators, it isn't about the kids its about the trophies, it isn't about sectionals or regionals, its only about a state title.  Used to be a HUGE deal to win a sectional, no longer the case...your season isn't a good one unless you go beyond regoinals to semi state.  All this change did was escalate the expectations.  Parody does nothing but waterdown the product.  In this case it waters down the competition and the attendance numbers reflect the fact that the competition has been watered down.
> 
> So in conclusion, a class basketball state title isn't a state title to me.  It is the equivlency of making it to the final four and then not even playing the championships at all.  (That is the best way I can explain my opinion, though I don't think it even ranks that high, because the outcomes would significantly different if the tournament was how it should be).



I watched that game you refer to.  If you think Gordon, Julian and the other Bulldogs weren't thrilled with the win--well they were.  The town was too.  As to beating the others--it is/was a moot point.  Like it or not, one class basketball is done in Indiana.  It's time to move on.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Dgreenwell3 said:


> LOL...I am sorry but any person who says that the IHSAA is just crazy for implementing a class system you should understand how difficult of a feeling it is as a player to face a school with MORE MONEY, Bigger players, higer paid everything but then say, it's only fair to say they are better than them because they beat that they were outmatched for...I am sorry but I and the IHSAA should give a rat's patootie about what the fans care about...it's about the Kids...



Have you been drinking again?   I couldn't understand any of this...maybe it's my age catching up with me...:krazy:


----------



## Callmedoc

No it's just when I get upset I don't have the greatest grammar and typing skills lol...and when I read the blatent disregard for the student and more of a regard of watching the tournament and how much fun it was...it really pissed me off...


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Dgreenwell3 said:


> No it's just when I get upset I don't have the greatest grammar and typing skills lol...and when I read the blatent disregard for the student and more of a regard of watching the tournament and how much fun it was...it really pissed me off...



No worries dude!  I was just ribbin' 'ya a little bit!!!  :wordyo:


----------



## 4Q_iu

*1997 Classification Vote*

The title escapes me but it's a book about the LAST IHSAA Boys State Tournament.

Some great appendices; School by school break down on sectional, regional, semi-state and state championships, Top Scorers in IHSAA history AND how each school voted AND their initial IHSAA classification.

The 93 4A schools 12 Yes / 81 No (12.9%) for Class Sports
      95 3A schools 52 Yes / 43 No (54.7%) for Class Sports
      93 2A schools 76 Yes / 17 No (81.7%) for Class Sports
      94 1A schools 78 Yes / 16 No (82.9%) for Class Sports

A total of 5 schools (3x3A, 1x2A and 1x1A) abstained from voting.


----------



## sycamorebacker

4Q_iu said:


> The title escapes me but it's a book about the LAST IHSAA Boys State Tournament.
> 
> Some great appendices; School by school break down on sectional, regional, semi-state and state championships, Top Scorers in IHSAA history AND how each school voted AND their initial IHSAA classification.
> 
> The 93 4A schools 12 Yes / 81 No (12.9%) for Class Sports
> 95 3A schools 52 Yes / 43 No (54.7%) for Class Sports
> 93 2A schools 76 Yes / 17 No (81.7%) for Class Sports
> 94 1A schools 78 Yes / 16 No (82.9%) for Class Sports
> 
> A total of 5 schools (3x3A, 1x2A and 1x1A) abstained from voting.



Makes sense.  I'm surprised any schools in the top class voted for it.  They really had nothing to gain.  Some of the big schools had free rides to the regional every year and on their home court.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

jlandrus23 said:


> We've dominated North lately, beating them I think 3 straight years. We killed them 13-3 in 2009.



Vincennes Lincoln has dominated West Vigo the past 10 years...My Alices won 3A State in 2002.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

Didn't some guy running for governor say he would push for single class basketball again?  Pretty sure my dad voted for him just for that reason! lol


----------



## 4Q_iu

sycamorebacker said:


> Makes sense.  I'm surprised any schools in the top class voted for it.  They really had nothing to gain.  Some of the big schools had free rides to the regional every year and on their home court.



While the vote was for ALL sports, the goal was CLASS basketball.

In all honesty, other than the athletes involved AND their parents; does ANYONE care who the 1994 Girls Tennis Singles champion was??

NO.  While I'm sure she is/was a great kid, Hollywood didn't make a movie about her miraculous victory in the State Championship.

NOR did the rest of the country KNOW and follow her story...

I was also surprised that some of the 4A schools voted for it; however, if the vote made an easier path for say a Ft W or Gary or Indy school to capture a sectional title, I understand it.


----------



## landrus13

sycamores28 said:


> Vincennes Lincoln has dominated West Vigo the past 10 years...My Alices won 3A State in 2002.



And where is Vincennes Lincoln at in the regionals?


----------



## Callmedoc

I just dont get this...clearly that voting points out that it was unfair to the small schools...I regularly visit my High school where I have a open pass for games...we wouldn't/can't regularly compete in basketball since I dont think we have had a kid in our class over 6 foot 5 since Deandre givens lol...bunch of Irish kids in Mount vernon...THEY DO PLAY HARD THO!!!!!!!!!!!...since MV is one of my Alma Maters I am biased but man the former coach Tom Kopatich was my Basketball coach but he always makes people play hard...btw's he is now the MV superintendent but he is an amazing coach who has that Tony Dungy (I am so nice you never want to let me down style and is completely upfront with you).


----------



## Callmedoc

Landrus...lemme make an NFL reference...who thinks the Eagles are a dominant team??????????????They have made 5 of the past 10 NFC championship games tho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## landrus13

I think the Eagles are a dominant team. They dominated the Colts. The Eagles are a very good team, they are pick for the team from the NFC to make the Super Bowl.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

Kopatich!! Wow I remember my brother and friend got in an argument with that kids mom I think when they played at Alice Arena...Whatever happened to Jace Redman??


----------



## mohoops247

sycamores28 said:


> Whatever happened to Jace Redman??



Jace went on to a very good career at Franklin College.  I played against him multiple times there and he was always a true competitor.



> Now as an upperclassman himself, Redman is one of a quartet of seniors who have led an otherwise young team to the top of the HCAC. Along with Redman, guard Dustin Marshall, and forwards John Yochum and Jared Catron are all four-year contributors, in which the Grizzlies compiled a 70-36 record including a 16-8 mark this season. During their four careers, Franklin has never finished less than second in the conference, winning last season’s conference tournament, earning the automatic bid to the national tournament


. From: http://www.thefranklinonline.com/sports/article/player_profile_dustin_marshall_and_jace_redman


----------



## Callmedoc

LOL I am talking over the Decade landrus...and they just got embarassed at Chicago...On the KoPat topic...his son was a solid basketball player that played at the University of Southern Indiana...


----------



## SycamoreFBGM

Anyone going to any games this weekend?  I plan to go to the Banks of the Wabash Tournament up at North Vermillion this year.


----------



## landrus13

I'm going to the West Vigo-South Vermillion game tomorrow night at South Vermillion. I don't know if I'm going to our game at Owen Valley on Saturday yet.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

mohoops247 said:


> Jace went on to a very good career at Franklin College.  I played against him multiple times there and he was always a true competitor.
> 
> . From: http://www.thefranklinonline.com/sports/article/player_profile_dustin_marshall_and_jace_redman





John Yochum!  Kid from Vincennes Lincoln!  Cost us the regionals to eventual state champion Mater Dei!  Refs homered us that game too!  Still give the bald headed bastard who reffed that game crap about it anytime I see him reffin!


----------



## mohoops247

I'll be at Northview tonight to watch North and will be at the North-Vincennes game tomorrow night too.


----------



## SycamoreinTexas

mohoops247 said:


> I'll be at Northview tonight to watch North and will be at the North-Vincennes game tomorrow night too.



I'll be at the Lawrence North/South game tonight, then watch my Alices pull off the upset on the road at North!!  Go Big Green!


----------



## landrus13

South Vermillion 37, West Vigo 29 - Girls

West Vigo 58, South Vermillion 45 - Boys

The boys had a 42-18 halftime lead.


----------



## Callmedoc

MV lost to hated Rival North Posey by 6...going to be honest, I was kind of happy about the results considering we were down 36-18 at half...


----------



## landrus13

Terre Haute North 58, Northview 40

Sullivan 60, Brown County 33


----------



## SycamoreFan317

LAST UPDATED AT 10:32 PM
Avon	67	Danville	51	 
Barr-Reeve	67	Pike Central	52	 
Batesville	66	Franklin County	46	 
Beech Grove	58	Speedway	57	 
Bethesda Christian	47	Clinton Central	38	 
Bloomfield	58	Shakamak	53	2 overtimes 
Bloomington North	58	Edgewood	44	 
Bloomington South	71	Bedford North Lawrence	65	 
Bluffton	51	South Adams	36	 
Borden	55	Lanesville	43	 
Bowman Academy	88	South Bend Washington	71	 
Brownstown Central	67	Seymour	42	 
Castle	60	Evansville North	58	 
Center Grove	76	Southport	54	 
Centerville	55	Northeastern	32	 
Charlestown	62	Scottsburg	34	 
Columbus East	68	New Albany	58	 
Columbus North	63	Shelbyville	61	 
Covenant Christian	60	Indianapolis Manual	40	 
Crown Point	59	LaPorte	43	 
Culver Academy	50	South Bend Adams	45	 
Decatur Central	63	Franklin	52	 
Eastern Greene	64	Mitchell	31	 
Eminence	63	North Central (Farmersburg)	44	 
Evansville Central	54	Washington	53	 
Evansville Reitz	50	Vincennes Lincoln	47	 
Fairfield	58	Prairie Heights	51	 
Fishers	54	Brownsburg	40	 
Fort Wayne Snider	54	Muncie Central	51	 
Goshen	47	Bremen	32	 
Hagerstown	57	Cambridge City Lincoln	37	 
Hamilton Southeastern	53	Mount Vernon (Fortville)	34	 
Indianapolis Broad Ripple	67	Guerin Catholic	52	 
Indianapolis Cathedral	61	Warren Central	54	 
Indianapolis International	46	Indianapolis Shortridge	40	 
Indianapolis Northwest	82	Indianapolis Ritter	57	 
Jac-Cen-Del	62	Southwestern (Shelbyville)	50	 
Jennings County	72	Madison	56	 
Knox	61	Tippecanoe Valley	53	 
Lake Central	46	Valparaiso	41	 
Lakeland	65	Fremont	56	 
Lebanon	74	Crawfordsville	65	 
Leo	104	Heritage	72	 
Maconaquah	71	North Miami	61	 
New Castle	46	Greenfield-Central	25	 
New Palestine	57	Eastern Hancock	56	 
Noblesville	54	Carmel	45	 
North Daviess	41	Shoals	21	 
Northeast Dubois	63	Washington Catholic	40	 
NorthWood	50	Triton	43	overtime 
Orleans	67	Springs Valley	59	 
Peru	68	Wabash	37	 
Plainfield	60	Whiteland	48	 
Providence	55	Austin	38	 
Rochester	50	Plymouth	48	 
Rushville	67	Connersville	55	 
Shawe Memorial	51	Southwestern (Hanover)	49	 
Silver Creek	61	Clarksville	54	 
South Knox	45	White River Valley	38	 
Sullivan	60	Brown County	33	 
Switzerland County	56	Trinity Lutheran	54	 
Terre Haute North	58	Northview	40	 
Tri-Central	61	Taylor	52	 
Union (Dugger)	51	Clay City	47	 
Union County	45	Knightstown	37	 
Waldron	55	Triton Central	52	 
Warsaw	90	Fort Wayne South	72	 
West Central	59	North Newton	18	 
West Washington	51	Eastern (Pekin)	48	 
Western	45	Northwestern	39	 
Wood Memorial	68	Loogootee	56	 
Zionsville	66	Westfield	53	 
Banks of Wabash Tournament
Riverton Parke	58	Turkey Run	52	 
Rockville	55	North Vermillion	29	 
Baptist Academy Tournament
Greenwood Christian	70	Lighthouse Christian	52	 
Indianapolis Metropolitan	65	Baptist Academy	52	 
Cass County Tournament
Pioneer	63	Caston	57	 
Lafayette J&C Classic
Harrison (West Lafayette)	61	Lafayette Central Catholic	49	 
Lafayette Jeff	65	West Lafayette	47


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## landrus13

Justin Gant broke his nose in the first half, but returned to the game.


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## True Blue

BTW,  Evansville Central,  who Terre Haute North beat by 30 in their first game, beat #1 ranked Washington and Cody Zeller last night. Maybe that first win for North wasn't the cupcake everyone thought.


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## landrus13

They said Washington blew a huge lead in the 2nd half. West Vigo beat Evansville Central at EC 2 years ago.


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## landrus13

Owen Valley 40, West Vigo 35 - Girls

West Vigo 68, Owen Valley 65 - Boys

West Vigo came from a 10-point deficit in the 2nd half to top the Patriots of Owen Valley.


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## landrus13

Brown County 79, Northview 78 OT


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## landrus13

Terre Haute North 67, Vincennes Lincoln 53

Rockville 46, Turkey Run 38

Terre Haute South 56, Mooresville 51


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## True Blue

North 67
Vincennes Lincoln 53

South 56
Mooresville 51

Laary Bird was at North for the Jim Jones court dedication!


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## landrus13

Sullivan 58, Shakamak 41

Washington 58, North Daviess 43

Riverton Parke 44, North Vermillion 35


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## True Blue

Gant had 25 pts, 12 rbs, and 6 blks.


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## landrus13

West Vigo travels to Northview on Friday, and we host Terre Haute South in 2 weeks on December 17. We also travel to South Knox this Saturday, and I'm not going to travel that far for a high school game.


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## landrus13

West Vigo 68, Northview 65

West Vigo defeats Northview for the third straight year.


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## True Blue

Terre Haute North 83
Ben Davis 69

Gant didn't look right tonight.  Didn't start either.  Maybe sick?  O'Leary picked up the slack with 23-27.(not exactly sure)

Terre Haute South 69
Center Grove 58

Huge win for South.  CG was preseason top 10.  They are huge and have a D-1 PG.


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## landrus13

Tonight was Center Grove's toughest game to date. They haven't played anybody yet.


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## landrus13

On WTHI, they stated that Justin Gant was suffering from an illness all week long.


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## landrus13

Bloomington South 70, Terre Haute North 60

South Knox 60, West Vigo 51


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