# Money for new stadium?



## WOZ

On another thread a figure of $70M was mentioned for a new football stadium.  We will need a super sugar daddy to help us out if that number is correct.   Otherwise, here is something to consider........university endowments.
Endowments are the money and/or property donated to institutions.
After reviewing a list of endowments for 833 colleges and universities, here is a partial list of endowments and where we stand:
#1   Harvard   $30.4 billion
13   Notre Dame 6.3 billion
33   Purdue        1.9 billion
47   I.U.            1.5 billion
153 Depauw          483 M
170 Loyola            408 M
181 Creighton        368 M
203 Wabash          325 M
240 Bradley           236 M
255 Yngstwn St      207M
268 Wichita St.      199 M
298 Ball St.           165 M
300 Valpo             163.7 M
301 Rose Hulman   163.2 M
309 South Dakota   158 M
317 Drake              152 M
323 Butler              149 M
400 NDSU              100 M
413 So.Illinois          93 M
433  Ill.State            84 M
457 SDSU                 75 M
478 UIndy                70.8 M
479 E'ville                70.5 M
522 Mo.State            61 M
540 Eastern Ill.         56 M
597 INDIANA STATE   42 M
677 Western Ill          28M

Typically universities are allowed to use about 5% of their endowment to generate additional annual income to be used as needed.
So Purdue could generate 5% of $1.9 Billion = $95 million per year additional income.
Whereas Indiana State would be 5% of $42 million = $2.1 Million per year.
As you can vividly see, we would need a lot of help to build a new stadium.


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## Bally #50

No doubt it would be a stretch and that's why I questioned the $70 mil figure as well. That said, it only takes ONE to change those figures drastically, and I know several ISU alums who could change those numbers upward in a heartbeat.


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## Sycamore Proud

We could put the entire 2.1 million in coaching salaries and not be out of line with the competition.  I'm not saying it should be done.  We need to remember it would be an annual need--not a one time deal.


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## Bally #50

Not positive this is dead on accurate, but I was told a gift of $10 mil could get a stadium started. I can't remember who said it, but it was at an athletic department event. Note: this was in reference to a "normal" stadium, NOT a $70 million one.


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## WOZ

Have those "several alums" ever helped us before?  
Have they ever been asked?
If so, would they be willing to do so again?


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## Bally #50

Woz, the answer is yes, and yes (with a few restrictions, like don't fuck it up this time). Not included in my revelation on donors, my guess is that many of the old wounds with Larry Bird have been healed as well. What he is done for the events next week is worth a fricking fortune to ISU athletics and the Foundation. Kudos to the ISF for a stellar job with "Statue Weekend." I was thinking they were insane for trying what they did at this banquet but they damn well sold out the banquet at IU pricing. I don't have the connections I once had so if anyone has some tickets for the BSU-ISU game on Saturday, let me know.


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## niklz62

Bally #46 said:


> Not positive this is dead on accurate, but I was told a gift of $10 mil could get a stadium started. I can't remember who said it, but it was at an athletic department event. Note: this was in reference to a "normal" stadium, NOT a $70 million one.



Ron Prettyyman said this. I'm not sure when I heard it but I don't think it was in print.   He said we have plans but finances are not there but if someone wants to donate $10M then we could start tomorrow.


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## Bally #50

niklz62 said:


> Ron Prettyyman said this. I'm not sure when I heard it but I don't think it was in print.   He said we have plans but finances are not there but if someone wants to donate $10M then we could start tomorrow.


Can't say for a fact, Niklz62, but I'd say whoever heard that was standing right next to me. That pretty much sums up what I heard, verbatim. Glad to know I wasn't dreaming. Ever since the ISU-Athletic foundation was established, they have sharped their fund-raising skills for sure, but without a doubt, they have some more work to do. Not too sure what Ball State has paid for their stadium renovations but I am confident it falls well less than $70 mil. Frankly, if you shop around, there are significant stadiums out there that cost FAR less than $70 mil that would work just fine (just sayin').


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## Jason Svoboda

Bonds. Student athletic fees. Donors. Naming rights. 

That's how you get it done. Yes, endowments would be nice but schools aren't touching those to build football stadiums -- at least none that I've seen unless I glanced over it. I will stick by my several sources. You don't have plans drawn up within the last year or so and set a budget on the project if you don't have some seed money already in the chute. Ron isn't some two bit rookie AD with his head in the clouds.


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## agrinut

WOZ said:


> On another thread a figure of $70M was mentioned for a new football stadium.  We will need a super sugar daddy to help us out if that number is correct.   Otherwise, here is something to consider........university endowments.
> Endowments are the money and/or property donated to institutions.
> After reviewing a list of endowments for 833 colleges and universities, here is a partial list of endowments and where we stand:
> #1   Harvard   $30.4 billion
> 13   Notre Dame 6.3 billion
> 33   Purdue        1.9 billion
> 47   I.U.            1.5 billion
> 153 Depauw          483 M
> 170 Loyola            408 M
> 181 Creighton        368 M
> 203 Wabash          325 M
> 240 Bradley           236 M
> 255 Yngstwn St      207M
> 268 Wichita St.      199 M
> 298 Ball St.           165 M
> 300 Valpo             163.7 M
> 301 Rose Hulman   163.2 M
> 309 South Dakota   158 M
> 317 Drake              152 M
> 323 Butler              149 M
> 400 NDSU              100 M
> 413 So.Illinois          93 M
> 433  Ill.State            84 M
> 457 SDSU                 75 M
> 478 UIndy                70.8 M
> 479 E'ville                70.5 M
> 522 Mo.State            61 M
> 540 Eastern Ill.         56 M
> 597 INDIANA STATE   42 M
> 677 Western Ill          28M
> 
> Typically universities are allowed to use about 5% of their endowment to generate additional annual income to be used as needed.
> So Purdue could generate 5% of $1.9 Billion = $95 million per year additional income.
> Whereas Indiana State would be 5% of $42 million = $2.1 Million per year.
> As you can vividly see, we would need a lot of help to build a new stadium.



How old are these numbers?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

In the interest of not sounding like my opinion is the only one that matters (because based on positive feedback I did a lot of that last week) I'd like to simply make a few statements. These are by no means intended to be taken as fact, however I have talked to many folks and can read between the lines and this is what I believe to be true at this time - October 2013. 

1. We will not have a new football stadium by 2021 (7 years)

2. The completed stadium will cost less than $70 million. 

3. The completed stadium will be part of a multi use facility that will be home to Track and Field, Soccer and Football. 

3a. This would make a statement about "drawings" and a "budget" 100% factual because it's a project that has already started thus that wouldn't come as a huge surprise that they have drawings for all phases of the project.

3b. The project will be completed in phases and phase 1 has already started - which includes construction of a Track and Field. 

4. They do have a major donor that has allowed them to get this project started. However at this time they do not have any aditional contributions to expedite the process.


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## treeman

so you're saying that this stadium will host track, soccer, and football? so if phase 1 is building a track, will there just be a track for a few years then they stick some football bleachers around when funding comes? a serious question not trying ruffle any feathers. 

also, I have heard a year or 2 ago that there was going to be soccer and track facility with a separate football stadium. There was even a booth with drawings of a beautiful facility at ISU's lasts home track meet (2 years ago). during my time at ISU i heard from reliable sources that there was significant money donated for a track and field facility and that construction had started. I don't know what happened to those plans but it looks like they got put on the backburner. Coach McNichols does things right and i believe that he would not see a new track and field facility through if it didn't meet the standards of hosting regional or national meets. 

ISU needs to come out and say "these are our plans, this is how much it will cost, this is how much we have, this is when we are trying to get it done" a lot of people are in the "know" on this forum and we are continuously hearing multiple things from multiple people. not saying anyone is wrong, but there seems to be a lot of smoke blowing in the offices.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

treeman said:


> so you're saying that this stadium will host track, soccer, and football? so if phase 1 is building a track, will there just be a track for a few years then they stick some football bleachers around when funding comes? a serious question not trying ruffle any feathers.
> 
> also, I have heard a year or 2 ago that there was going to be soccer and track facility with a separate football stadium. There was even a booth with drawings of a beautiful facility at ISU's lasts home track meet (2 years ago). during my time at ISU i heard from reliable sources that there was significant money donated for a track and field facility and that construction had started. I don't know what happened to those plans but it looks like they got put on the backburner. Coach McNichols does things right and i believe that he would not see a new track and field facility through if it didn't meet the standards of hosting regional or national meets.
> 
> ISU needs to come out and say "these are our plans, this is how much it will cost, this is how much we have, this is when we are trying to get it done" a lot of people are in the "know" on this forum and we are continuously hearing multiple things from multiple people. not saying anyone is wrong, but there seems to be a lot of smoke blowing in the offices.



Good questions and I don't have the best answers to any of those questions. 

They do want to host both regional and national events at this facility. A seating capacity of a football stadium would no doubt allow them to do that, otherwise I'm not sure they ever get the funding to do the stadium the way McNichols would like it.

The track will likely be open for competition during the 2015-2016 Outdoor Track Season. My guess (just a guess) is it will be designed in a way that a football field will be added to the inside at a later date/different phase.

You've also got that old ICON Building to the west of the track. It had been talked about at some time the past turning those into apartments or student housing - not sure what came of those conversations.


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## niklz62

just a quick thought.  is it possible that the $70M stadium cost is like a $35M Stadium and the other $35 is doing what they need to do to the infrastructure around that area to make a major highway not a problem.  If we drop a $70M stadium there there will be ALL kinds of problems.  When we look at the cost of other stadiums are we looking at the structure or everything that comes with the structure.  By seeing our new locker rooms and offices at the stadium ive noticed that 1 or 2 million dollars doesnt really go very far, even as nice as they are.


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## Bally #50

SycamoreStateofMind said:


> In the interest of not sounding like my opinion is the only one that matters (because based on positive feedback I did a lot of that last week) I'd like to simply make a few statements. These are by no means intended to be taken as fact, however I have talked to many folks and can read between the lines and this is what I believe to be true at this time - October 2013.
> 
> 1. We will not have a new football stadium by 2021 (7 years)
> 
> 2. The completed stadium will cost less than $70 million.
> 
> 3. The completed stadium will be part of a multi use facility that will be home to Track and Field, Soccer and Football.
> 
> 3a. This would make a statement about "drawings" and a "budget" 100% factual because it's a project that has already started thus that wouldn't come as a huge surprise that they have drawings for all phases of the project.
> 
> 3b. The project will be completed in phases and phase 1 has already started - which includes construction of a Track and Field.
> 
> 4. They do have a major donor that has allowed them to get this project started. However at this time they do not have any aditional contributions to expedite the process.


SSOM, I will give you credit for persistence on this subject. It would seem you have been echoing an opinion that you deem to be 100% correct and with your "track" record (no pun intended), unfortunately it likely means you are correct and that you will ultimately, back up your opinions. Having said that, this is how I feel on this on October of 2013.

1. We may NOT have a stadium by 2021 but no one can predict when money could come available on this project and they are working diligently to find a donor that could speed this up.

2. The completed stadium will cost less than $70 million. (unless the donor is offering more than expected, or they actually discover oil on the campus).

3. The completed stadium will be part of a multi-use facility that will be home to Track and Field, Soccer and Football but only if they decide to abandon the original idea of separating the two facilities of track and field and football/soccer. 

3a. Combining the two has been discussed ad nauseum on Sycamore Pride many times before and the consensus is that would be a mistake. The majority feels that it simply squeezes the track around the football field and places the grandstands much farther away from the field than if there was no track. Track and Field certainly deserve their own facility and the Master Plan shows it built that way. If they do combine, those against combining the two will claim that it only hurts the viewpoint of the football fans and the majority of the funds are in fact being utilized for football so why take away from the experience. One advantage, the Master Plan calls for the track to have the "prime" position which would truly place the track on the banks of the Wabash and the football stadium to be placed off of 3rd street.

3b. The project will be completed in phases and phase 1 has already started - which includes construction of a Track and Field. Since I have not walked the banks of the Wabash in decades, the location of the track (if staked off) may well indicate whether or not there will be TWO facilities. 

4. They do have a major donor (for the track) that has allowed them to get this project started. However at this time they do not have any additional contributions to expedite the process.

So after all the fuss, SSOM, you and I agree on most everything, which is good, as I have said previously, you are generally very accurate in your statements. I personally feel that if they have CHANGED their mind (of separate facilities in the Master Plan) and combined the track and the football stadium, that they are making a HUGE MISTAKE. The trend is towards separate facilities because of the a fore-mentioned objection of placing the seats 30% farther away from the field. Track and field is one of our premier programs at Indiana State and they deserve their own facility.


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## niklz62

From a track point of view, is there a benefit of not having a turf football field in the middle of the track?  Would it be more likely to host larger meets if there was room for throwing events on it?  I dont know where the longer throwing events take place on single use track.


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## bent20

Is it worth it having the added expense of maintaining multiple facilities just so fans can be a little closer to the action for five football games per year? Just asking. I say do whatever it takes to make this happen financially.


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## Bally #50

Other than the time spent to walk across the street, I can't see where maintenance of two facilities would be significantly higher. I am not an efficiency expert but that would seem to be accurate, Bent20.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

niklz62 said:


> From a track point of view, is there a benefit of not having a turf football field in the middle of the track?  Would it be more likely to host larger meets if there was room for throwing events on it?  I dont know where the longer throwing events take place on single use track.



It matters not. Drake University home of the Drake Relays has a multi use facility with a football field in the middle and is home to perhaps the greatest college track meet in all of the United States. 

The seating capacity that a football stadium demands helps the tracks ability to host big time track meets, similar to our efforts in hosting thw D1 National Chmapionships. Your probably not going to take that honor away from Nike/Oregon University but they could host NCAA Regional meets and also USATF Summer meets that are a big draw. 

My best interest is in the University as a whole and I contend that it is more responsible finically to build a multi-use facility and I'm likely not going to be convinced otherwise. But whatever they decide to do I will fully support the effort. This is just what I believe to be the case right now.


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## BudDawgII

Has the local media covered this topic at all?  Just seems like the local media should be on top of this by interviewing the AD and University President and asking a lot of questions about this stadium and plans for all of the other sports facilities?
Interesting timing for all this chatter about a new  $70 M  facility when our team is 1-6 and the stands are empty and enthusiasm is at  an all time low!
Maybe this is all just a big smoke screen to take attention away from the current state of affairs concerning this program.
This dawg smells a rat---!


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## niklz62

if this story is close to real, i dont think financial responsibility has anything to do with it.  

is some sort of building going on with the track right now?  and is it on the same location as the track has been since 1990's 2000's?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

BudDawgII said:


> Has the local media covered this topic at all?  Just seems like the local media should be on top of this by interviewing the AD and University President and asking a lot of questions about this stadium and plans for all of the other sports facilities?
> Interesting timing for all this chatter about a new  $70 M  facility when our team is 1-6 and the stands are empty and enthusiasm is at  an all time low!
> Maybe this is all just a big smoke screen to take attention away from the current state of affairs concerning this program.
> This dawg smells a rat---!



That certainly is one opinion. 

Let's make sure everyone is aware, Jason is not paid for his efforts here at Sycamore Pride and he is not part of Indiana State. Thus, he has no real reason to protect the program via a "smoke screen". What would he be gaining by doing that? He is the one that presented the forum with this information, but highly doubt he did it to create a smoke screen. 

I'd say it was done for a more selfish and understandable reason - to generate conversation. Don't assume that to mean I think he made it up, he wouldn't do that either. But the only way we "learn" what is really going on is to hear what others are hearing because Indiana State as a whole and our local media do a piss poor job of communicating! The local media as a whole is in bed with Indiana State and so you don't get the fully story. 

Case and point? Shakir Bell.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

niklz62 said:


> if this story is close to real, i dont think financial responsibility has anything to do with it.
> 
> is some sort of building going on with the track right now?  and is it on the same location as the track has been since 1990's 2000's?



No it is at a different location - this was effective last time so I will attempt again - you can see the current track to the right of the map and the new location to the left the sharpie!






I'm sorry but at a school like Indiana State in Terre Haute, IN with a student poplation of less than 14k, an endowment as of 2012 of $42 million it has everything to do with finanical responsiblity.

I contend that it would irresponsible of the University to build two seperate facilities that will go unused. I think that you can get more bang for your buck if you build one stadium - I think everyone wins in the end. I think that it gets to football team on campus sooner than they might if they did them seperate projects and I think that is important.

Again, I can't say without a shadow of a doubt this is what they are doing. Jason, ITF and other suggest otherwise - so we will see. Like I have said many times, I'd love to have two stadiums and they both be two of the best in the Midwest but that's just not par with what we have come to expect from Indiana State.


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## Sackalot

Lets be realistic here...ISU is not building a $70 million stadium...it just ain't happening.  No way, no how!  They may possibly build a $25-$35 million dollar stadium (per the ratio architects designs in the master plan) but they are not going to spend that kind of money on a football field.  I will never believe anything otherwise.  You can explain it, talk about it, discuss it, justify it, all you want but that is not going to happen.  

What may happen is a total expenditure of close to $70 million for everything...everything from putting in the roundabout on US41, destruction of Marks Field, building of soccer, football, track and field, facilities, wetlands improvements, infrastructure, potential student housing, etc.  But that is the only way you can ever get to a $70 million price tag.  If ISU put $70 million on the line for a stadium (or convinced a donor to do so) they would be literally laughed out of the state house...laughed out onto Capital Avenue!  

I love my alma mater but that just aint happening. 

On a different note...unless ISU (et al) figures out how not to tick off major (and I mean major donors) they are going to have a hard time raising any truly significant funds.  And when I say significant I mean 5-10-20 million, not 50K...I am talking major and they have some or potential donors that are interested and have been, but they always seem to not listen to them from where I stand.  First rule of fundraising, you listen to the guy (or gal) with the BIG checkbook and pretty much do what they say, provided it isn't illegal (NCAA or State or Federal Law) and isn't unethical.  Too many stories of situations where ISU didn't listen and got into a pissing match with a donor...for no reason, but it still happened.


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## niklz62

Im not saying that it is likely.  Im just saying that if someone is willing to pay $70M for a stadium and wants no track around it, then i would say there will be a $70M stadium with no track around it.  If they want us to have a 100 person band at halftime, im gonna bet we have 100 people in the marching band next year.  Im just commenting as if we have a single large donor.  I have heard nothing so im just dreaming/speculating.

maybe the guy who built the #37 golf course in america in his back yard about 12 miles west wants to put his name on it.


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## IndyTreeFan

Something to keep in mind, and I'm just spitballing here, is that RP has experience with a multi-use track/soccer stadium.  Part of the campus master plan uses the Home Depot Center as an example - "The Home Depot Center in Los Angeles has been cited as an example of how a good competition soccer field can be built inside a superior track stadium."  Let us not forget that it was Ron Prettyman who got the Home Depot Center built at his previous employer - a D-II school...

Just sayin' that it is within the realm of possibility that the football stadium could be a stand alone facility, while the track and soccer programs share "...a superior track stadium."  Don't close your eyes to the possibilities...

http://www4.csudh.edu/about/csudh-the-community/home-depot-center/index

Yes, I know that is in a much larger metropolitan area.  What I'm saying is that we have leaders with vision.  Indiana State has always had a problem with thinking too small - dutifully staying in our role as the redheaded stepchild of IU.  Perhaps the vision is to start changing that.  Perhaps there are benefits to the building of a world class athletic complex that go beyond the stadiums themselves.  It's a vision of public/private partnerships that could transform Indiana State University.  It might be bigger than just a stadium.

Like I said, I'm just spitballin' here...:dunce:


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## SycamoreStateofMind

niklz62 said:


> Im not saying that it is likely.  Im just saying that if someone is willing to pay $70M for a stadium and wants no track around it, then i would say there will be a $70M stadium with no track around it.  If they want us to have a 100 person band at halftime, im gonna bet we have 100 people in the marching band next year.  Im just commenting as if we have a single large donor.  I have heard nothing so im just dreaming/speculating.
> 
> maybe the guy who built the #37 golf course in america in his back yard about 12 miles west wants to put his name on it.



Lol Canyata Golf Club Owned by Gerald Forsyth. Yeah that place is amazing! You can't play it unless you know the right people and even when you do your talking like $250 per person or sumthin crazy.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

IndyTreeFan said:


> Something to keep in mind, and I'm just spitballing here, is that RP has experience with a multi-use track/soccer stadium.  Part of the campus master plan uses the Home Depot Center as an example - "The Home Depot Center in Los Angeles has been cited as an example of how a good competition soccer field can be built inside a superior track stadium."  Let us not forget that it was Ron Prettyman who got the Home Depot Center built at his previous employer - a D-II school...
> 
> Just sayin' that it is within the realm of possibility that the football stadium could be a stand alone facility, while the track and soccer programs share "...a superior track stadium."  Don't close your eyes to the possibilities...
> 
> http://www4.csudh.edu/about/csudh-the-community/home-depot-center/index
> 
> Yes, I know that is in a much larger metropolitan area.  What I'm saying is that we have leaders with vision.  Indiana State has always had a problem with thinking too small - dutifully staying in our role as the redheaded stepchild of IU.  Perhaps the vision is to start changing that.  Perhaps there are benefits to the building of a world class athletic complex that go beyond the stadiums themselves.  It's a vision of public/private partnerships that could transform Indiana State University.  It might be bigger than just a stadium.
> 
> Like I said, I'm just spitballin' here...:dunce:



Eyes open and all but a HUGE difference between thinking too small and thinking smart - two totally different things. Find a happy medium.


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## Jason Svoboda

I've just shared tidbits of info from about 3-4 different people. As I mentioned in the very first thread, I'd take them as rumor until the University publicly announces something or something ends up in the State's budget request reports. That said, here is my opinion: You don't build a FCS-level stadium (combined football/track/soccer) if the goal is to move to FBS. I think the financial commitment the school has put into the program, the leaked info about the Sunbelt invite/feelers say that is what they're aiming for. Can someone name multi-sport facilities at the FBS level? I think you'd be hard pressed for find more than a handful and most are in densely populated urban areas. 

I understand the financial feasibility of the project but don't understand the small mindedness surrounding it. If the school simply tried to institute the same thing UNT did by instituting a $10 per credit hour fee if students accepted the proposal, they'd net $3.6m per year using 12k students at 15 credit hours per student. They could likely secure financing for the project based on that alone. Oh, and didn't they raise $42m for the student rec center doing this very thing? It can be done.  

Indiana State, like a lot of FCS schools, are getting ready to be thrown into deep, murky, shark infested waters. With the recent NCAA court ruling allowing the Ed O'Bannon case to go on, I think it is inevitable athletes will starting getting paid. Combine that with the fact that you have the NCAA membership meeting in early 2014 to discuss how to handle football, which will basically entail them laying down for the FBS, it could spell doom for the program. If you lose the $500k paydays that have kept the athletics department out of the red, you either go all in or think about eliminating the program and the attached female sports -- golf, soccer, softball and volleyball I'd assume if they add up to 63 scholarships.


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Jason Svoboda said:


> I've just shared tidbits of info from about 3-4 different people. As I mentioned in the very first thread, I'd take them as rumor until the University publicly announces something or something ends up in the State's budget request reports. That said, here is my opinion: You don't build a FCS-level stadium (combined football/track/soccer) if the goal is to move to FBS. I think the financial commitment the school has put into the program, the leaked info about the Sunbelt invite/feelers say that is what they're aiming for. Can someone name multi-sport facilities at the FBS level? I think you'd be hard pressed for find more than a handful and most are in densely populated urban areas.
> 
> I understand the financial feasibility of the project but don't understand the small mindedness surrounding it. If the school simply tried to institute the same thing UNT did by instituting a $10 per credit hour fee if students accepted the proposal, they'd net $3.6m per year using 12k students at 15 credit hours per student. They could likely secure financing for the project based on that alone. Oh, and didn't they raise $42m for the student rec center doing this very thing? It can be done.
> 
> Indiana State, like a lot of FCS schools, are getting ready to be thrown into deep, murky, shark infested waters. With the recent NCAA court ruling allowing the Ed O'Bannon case to go on, I think it is inevitable athletes will starting getting paid. Combine that with the fact that you have the NCAA membership meeting in early 2014 to discuss how to handle football, which will basically entail them laying down for the FBS, it could spell doom for the program. If you lose the $500k paydays that have kept the athletics department out of the red, you either go all in or think about eliminating the program and the attached female sports -- golf, soccer, softball and volleyball I'd assume if they add up to 63 scholarships.



Well said and for the sake of fairness you might as well throw Track and XC into the mix. Without a doubt a distinct possability.


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## Westbadenboy

Just a quick comparison to Hulman Center -- many of us have tired over the years reading in the basketball programs we bought that Hulman Center was a "$10 million facility" -- it was built in the early 70's.  If you translate $10 million in early 70's money into 2013 dollars you don't get $70 million ................
but you don't get $25 million either.
Equal money is probably in the $50+ million range (and I doubt you could actually build Hulman Center today for $50 million) -- so suggesting that its ridiculous for ISU to even try or consider spending $50 -- $70 million for a football stadium today ------ well, in 2013 dollars, that's about what we spent for Hulman Center.


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## Sackalot

Public and Private in TH and public private in other cities is two different things from where I am standing.  Hulman Center - public/private and no one is overly happy with it and it quickly became 'private" for all practical purposes...Terre Haute, as a community, argues and discusses everything for 10-15-20 years before they act it seems to me.  I don't see it happening, but maybe I am wrong or ill informed.  

I like the concept...I just don't see ISU and TH playing very nice with that kind of money on the table...again, could be completely wrong.

Something to think about...restricted vs. unrestricted gifts.  Restricted gifts tend to be higher but cause more problems.  ISU would need a restricted gift of many, many millions to build a stadium.  But, then you would have lawmakers, local politicians, faculty senate, administrators, even other alums complaining that the restricted gift is very used for the wrong thing (even if the donor decided what he wanted his money to go to)...if unrestricted could have built this building or provided for 10,000 scholarships or whatever is what they would say (IMHO).  And that conversation will occur with any donor, discussing that exact situation and the foundation will beg, plead and hope that the donor will give unrestricted money so that ISU can decide what to do with it rather than it be dictated to them.  And if that happens, the stadium will never get built because the faculty will fight it and continue to fight it (as they probably should).  

I want a stadium as much as the next guy, but realistically I don't see it for at least a decade and I see something similar to what Carmel HS has, a nice facility near campus that everyone can walk to from campus that will seat approx. 15K eventually.  And I don't see it costing more than $20 million and be multi-use-everyone sharing it.


----------



## TreeTop

At the risk of getting too off track (pun intended), to be eligible for D-1 status doesn't a school have to have a minimum of 12 sports?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BTW, just to give an idea at how $70m may not be all that much in the grand scheme... I believe I read in the biennial budget request that the current scope of the track and field project when all phases are completed is between $10-12m.


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## Westbadenboy

Another side note --- if the basketball programs still have that $10 million figure in describing Hulman Center in there, will someone please call the Athletic Dept and tell them to either update that number (Hell, you couldn't build a decent high school gym today for $10 million or take the number out of the article entirely.

More importantly, my point above is that $70 million in today's money is not that far above $10 million in early 70's money --- so its not a totally out whack idea.  And I'm no builder, but I don't think $20 million today will get you any sort of decent college football stadium.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Quabachi said:


> At the risk of getting too off track (pun intended), to be eligible for D-1 status doesn't a school have to have a minimum of 12 sports?


Correct. It's supposed to be 7M/7W or 6M/8W with at least 2 in each being team sports. That said, we've only had 5M sports for several years now so I'm not sure if we've got some waiver or something. That was why I think we don't really have much of a choice unless we cut football in favor of men's tennis, golf, soccer -- like a non scholarship FB school like Butler/Drake have.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Westbadenboy said:


> Another side note --- if the basketball programs still have that $10 million figure in describing Hulman Center in there, will someone please call the Athletic Dept and tell them to either update that number (Hell, you couldn't build a decent high school gym today for $10 million or take the number out of the article entirely.
> 
> More importantly, my point above is that $70 million in today's money is not that far above $10 million in early 70's money --- so its not a totally out whack idea.  And I'm no builder, but I don't think $20 million today will get you any sort of decent college football stadium.



Just for the sake of argument, the $10,000,000 in 1972 dollars would equate to $55,863,990.27 in today's dollars, using the average annual inflation rate of 4.29% over that period.

So remember, we once built a $55,000,000 basktball arena.  $70,000,000 on a football stadium doesn't sound that out-in-left-field...

Love the discussion!!!


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## niklz62

IndyTreeFan said:


> Just for the sake of argument, the $10,000,000 in 1972 dollars would equate to $55,863,990.27 in today's dollars, using the average annual inflation rate of 4.29% over that period.
> 
> So remember, we once built a $55,000,000 basktball arena.  $70,000,000 on a football stadium doesn't sound that out-in-left-field...
> 
> Love the discussion!!!



Saluki Stadium cost $25.xM in 2010 dollars. Illinois is filled with some of the most generous politicians when it comes to other peoples money (sorry had to throw my love for them in mixed with some sarcasm).  If we had a stadium like that I'd be happy as shit. If it were up to me I'd rather have taller stands and less horseshoe since that's where I'd want to sit if there were no good seats left.  

Here's a conspiracy theory.  Remember the complaint about the train horn?  Well, few of us disagree that any stadium would be built, Where?  About 200 feet from the actual railroad tracks.  If you thought 3rd down was annoying, try sleeping in the north side of the quads with those slow ass things blaring their horn all the way through town.


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## BankShot

niklz62 said:


> Here's a conspiracy theory.  Remember the complaint about the train horn?  Well, few of us disagree that any stadium would be built, Where?  About 200 feet from the actual railroad tracks.  If you thought 3rd down was annoying, try sleeping in the north side of the quads with those slow ass things blaring their horn all the way through town.



Shiiit...life's easy now. You should've been living in the N LQ in '70, when there were about 4 x's that many tracks! Just a block east of LQ used to be the Terre Haute Train Terminal, where people BOARDED. Talk about a neat looking architectural piece. Unfortunately, a few "planning" dumb asses w/ no cultural understanding treated  it like it was a Debs union organizing center & destroyed it.

Pic 1
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=_VRwUsu1LZP7yAGr0IG4Bw&ved=0CD4Q9QEwAw

Pic 2
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=zlNwUoGxNKKyyAGzgoCYBQ&ved=0CEIQ9QEwBQ

:no:The good ol' day dayz:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=GlRwUt7GLumfyQHFxYHABg&ved=0CEQQ9QEwBg


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## WOZ

2011-2012


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## Sycamore Proud

BudDawgII said:


> Has the local media covered this topic at all?  Just seems like the local media should be on top of this by interviewing the AD and University President and asking a lot of questions about this stadium and plans for all of the other sports facilities?
> Interesting timing for all this chatter about a new  $70 M  facility when our team is 1-6 and the stands are empty and *enthusiasm is at  an all time low*!
> Maybe this is all just a big smoke screen to take attention away from the current state of affairs concerning this program.
> This dawg smells a rat---!



This team is not even close to the "all time low" title in  my opinion.  I truly believe that the best day with West is far below the worst day since he left.  This is my belief, not open to debate.


----------



## new sycamore fan

Again, I can't comment on West because I wasn't "here", but there has been no season since 2008 that I didn't feel the program was making the right decisions that were in the best interest of the program.  At this level (FCS) you need to keep reevaluating and weeding out the program every year to make sure things stay in the right direction.  There's been a lot of adversity this year, but I don't get the feeling that things are spirling out of control or that a winning season next year is out of the question.  Don't kill the program because a new coach had to make some unpopular decisions coupled with an unprecedented injury plague led to a bad season.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

new sycamore fan said:


> Again, I can't comment on West because I wasn't "here", but there has been no season since 2008 that I didn't feel the program was making the right decisions that were in the best interest of the program.  At this level (FCS) you need to keep reevaluating and weeding out the program every year to make sure things stay in the right direction.  There's been a lot of adversity this year, but I don't get the feeling that things are spirling out of control or that a winning season next year is out of the question.  Don't kill the program because a new coach had to make some unpopular decisions coupled with an unprecedented injury plague led to a bad season.



I don't think anyone in their right mind wants the program cut. All one has to do is turn on the TV each fall and watch college football to understand how much attention it brings to the University. My comment was tongue in cheek because I feel the University is committed to seeing the program grow and move up.


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## niklz62

Could the money come from here?

http://www.tribstar.com/news/x1186888382/Drilling-for-oil-at-ISU-Derrick-debuts-on-campus


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## kvicroy

A new stadium would be great for football, but a better-than-average facility doesn't seem to have helped the basketball team. The Hulman Center is a good arena, yet ISU still struggles to get Terre Haute fans to pack the place.

Below are some numbers for basketball attendance this season:

2 home games so far this season for ISU:
7,721 for the Ball State game (not bad, but could be the highest for the season)
4,419 for Truman State

Do you know which team this is below? They seem to outdraw ISU each season, including this one, so far:
8,091 vs. Ball State
7,531 vs. Belmont
7,476 vs. IPFW

It's the Purdue women's basketball team.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

kvicroy said:


> A new stadium would be great for football, but a better-than-average facility doesn't seem to have helped the basketball team. The Hulman Center is a good arena, yet ISU still struggles to get Terre Haute fans to pack the place.
> 
> Below are some numbers for basketball attendance this season:
> 
> 2 home games so far this season for ISU:
> 7,721 for the Ball State game (not bad, but could be the highest for the season)
> 4,419 for Truman State
> 
> Do you know which team this is below? They seem to outdraw ISU each season, including this one, so far:
> 8,091 vs. Ball State
> 7,531 vs. Belmont
> 7,476 vs. IPFW
> 
> It's the Purdue women's basketball team.



The are normally in the national picture also, it is called winning on a consistent basis.


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## bent20

kvicroy said:


> A new stadium would be great for football, but a better-than-average facility doesn't seem to have helped the basketball team. The Hulman Center is a good arena, yet ISU still struggles to get Terre Haute fans to pack the place.
> 
> Below are some numbers for basketball attendance this season:
> 
> 2 home games so far this season for ISU:
> 7,721 for the Ball State game (not bad, but could be the highest for the season)
> 4,419 for Truman State
> 
> Do you know which team this is below? They seem to outdraw ISU each season, including this one, so far:
> 8,091 vs. Ball State
> 7,531 vs. Belmont
> 7,476 vs. IPFW
> 
> It's the Purdue women's basketball team.



Actually, the Hulman Center is quite dated and in need of numerous improvements, but perhaps we should save that discussion for another day. Would note that if we'd had a better showing in Alaska, I think the numbers would still be very high, maybe even growing. You're never going to get a huge turnout for Truman State though. Winning is what it all comes down to, and we're not talking an 18-15 season in basketball or 6-5 year in football.


----------



## new sycamore fan

Not convinced that winning would make much of a difference in either sport. This is not the 70's anymore and you see football stadiums in the B1G and other BCS conferences other than the SEC little more than half full. Just a fact of life that most of the students and the town could give a flyin shit about attending sporting events. Must be so many more things to do, just too many choices. And the high price of tickets must also be a deterrent.


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## Sycamore Proud

There are so many entertainment options available now that did not exist just 20 years ago.  It is the same thing as Indiana high school basketball.  More choices for people mean more empty seats in the gym.  Declining attendance has little to do with class basketball.


----------



## treeman

honestly, if we could ever average the 10,000 mark in football and average around 7,500 for bball i would be pretty happy. those are solid numbers for a MVC school, especially in a market like terre haute. the football mark would take  A LOT OF WORK AND YEARS but the bball average wouldn't take that long if we string together 3 or 4 more years of CHAMPIONSHIP caliber basketball.


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## niklz62

Do you think that people's mobility is a factor that lowers attendance at ISU sports?  When I was a kid in Casey, we had reliable transportation but going to terre haute (45min) was a big deal but going to Indy or St. Louis or Champaign was almost unheard of.  I wouldn't think twice about making any of those trips now.  I wonder if people's ease of transportation has given us more options.


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## Sycamore Proud

niklz62 said:


> Do you think that people's mobility is a factor that lowers attendance at ISU sports?  When I was a kid in Casey, we had reliable transportation but going to terre haute (45min) was a big deal but going to Indy or St. Louis or Champaign was almost unheard of.  I wouldn't think twice about making any of those trips now.  I wonder if people's ease of transportation has given us more options.



Totally agree with the transportation ideas--ties right in with my entertainment thoughts on #49 of this thread.


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## Bluethunder

That and it used to be you could only watch the games if you showed up, but now you have thirty sports channels and a million games streaming online.

Used to be you had three channels total on your tv, and on a good day two games at once.


----------



## ISU

It's definitely helps in recruiting. Facilities are a big factor on kids minds.


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## new sycamore fan

I'm sure we have lost some recruits in the last couple of years to Illinois State with their new facilities and their "intention" to move on to the MAC.  Our facilities do not help at all with recruiting; all we have to sell is playing time and good competition.


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## ISU

IMHO - The competition is really a strong factor. Obviously you want to get wins but getting a chance to play BIG10 teams makes a significant diff.


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## bent20

ISU said:


> IMHO - The competition is really a strong factor. Obviously you want to get wins but getting a chance to play BIG10 teams makes a significant diff.



I think (assume) he was referring more to the MVC teams we play in conference every year. It's one of, it not the best conference at the FCS level.


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## new sycamore fan

Clearly on of the best, if not the best, FCS conference.  However, the idea of playing a B1G school everry year is definitely part of the recruiting pitch.


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## southernindianaballer

I would assume that a major donor is looking for the "difference" both long term and short term that the investment/donation will make.
Understanding that might allow us to reach a conclusion on whether or not  a new stadium will become reality.
Here are some benefits I see:
A literal transformation (Continued transformation - as things are getting better) of the downtown area of Terre Haute - truly it would spark some nice revenue for downtown Terre Haute for a long, long time into the future.
Placing track/field, soccer, softball, and football along the banks of the Wabash provides year long investment dollars for downtown merchants and ISU.  Especially if track/field can garner some large meets.  This way the 5-6 seasonal football games is supplemented with other sports during different times of the year.
Educationally - it gives ISU a much better college life experience for students.  This is known to help retention and improve enrollment.
Building the "Wabash Cannonball Stadium" with naming or donor rights in front is a tribute to Indiana's history and Terre Haute being the "Crossroads of America."  ISU's signature song being played loud and proud on the banks of the Wabash next to the CSX railroad and bridge makes for a perfect scenario.
Smart utilization of the donor's contribution is key... Listen to the donor... be smart about the investment.... reality is very nice stadiums can be built without using Indiana Limestone...  but if that is the wish - fine... But I'm guessing a 25,000 seat horse shoe stadium with an end zone knoll facing the south with the corners laced with Sycamore Trees for the team to run through the forest into the stadium can be done for $40 million.  I pick 25k seating just in case - in 15 years and ISU enrollment is at 25k they have the option to move up to BCS.  You know, our current president has enrollment and ISU on a major uptick.  IF this continues for a few more years - a 25k enrollment is feasible... we need to think big and think like business people to a degree as our president seems to have a good balance of education and business acumen.
Thoughts?


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## GuardShock

southernindianaballer said:


> I would assume that a major donor is looking for the "difference" both long term and short term that the investment/donation will make.
> Understanding that might allow us to reach a conclusion on whether or not  a new stadium will become reality.
> Here are some benefits I see:
> A literal transformation (Continued transformation - as things are getting better) of the downtown area of Terre Haute - truly it would spark some nice revenue for downtown Terre Haute for a long, long time into the future.
> Placing track/field, soccer, softball, and football along the banks of the Wabash provides year long investment dollars for downtown merchants and ISU.  Especially if track/field can garner some large meets.  This way the 5-6 seasonal football games is supplemented with other sports during different times of the year.
> Educationally - it gives ISU a much better college life experience for students.  This is known to help retention and improve enrollment.
> Building the "Wabash Cannonball Stadium" with naming or donor rights in front is a tribute to Indiana's history and Terre Haute being the "Crossroads of America."  ISU's signature song being played loud and proud on the banks of the Wabash next to the CSX railroad and bridge makes for a perfect scenario.
> Smart utilization of the donor's contribution is key... Listen to the donor... be smart about the investment.... reality is very nice stadiums can be built without using Indiana Limestone...  but if that is the wish - fine... But I'm guessing a 25,000 seat horse shoe stadium with an end zone knoll facing the south with the corners laced with Sycamore Trees for the team to run through the forest into the stadium can be done for $40 million.  I pick 25k seating just in case - in 15 years and ISU enrollment is at 25k they have the option to move up to BCS.  You know, our current president has enrollment and ISU on a major uptick.  IF this continues for a few more years - a 25k enrollment is feasible... we need to think big and think like business people to a degree as our president seems to have a good balance of education and business acumen.
> Thoughts?



Fantastic first post. I actually really agree with this idea. I know in the 20 year plan it has ISU moving the stadium over across third street. We got the funding to do Normal Hall. After some consistent winning years, I don't see why we couldn't get the funding!


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## southernindianaballer

I would say ISU does not have nearly 20 years unless they like playing roulette with the mvfc.   A 10-12k seat stadium does not fit the bill for this conference.  Either we are in or out.  Decision should be fairly quick.  Economic conditions are ripening throughout the country and when running a business.....  you keep the steam churning with no let up...  just my thoughts.  Trying not to be too opinionated.  Just my thoughts.  Other schools in our region would likely consider taking a spot in the nation's premier fcs conference.  Thanks!


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## Jason Svoboda

southernindianaballer said:


> I would say ISU does not have nearly 20 years unless they like playing roulette with the mvfc.   A 10-12k seat stadium does not fit the bill for this conference.  Either we are in or out.  Decision should be fairly quick.  Economic conditions are ripening throughout the country and when running a business.....  you keep the steam churning with no let up...  just my thoughts.  Trying not to be too opinionated.  Just my thoughts.  Other schools in our region would likely consider taking a spot in the nation's premier fcs conference.  Thanks!



If you know someone willing to write a check, I'm sure they'd be all over it. That is the issue. The school, from what I've been told, is currently at their bond limit for the foreseeable future with all of the residence hall upgrades and the new buildings being built along Wabash Avenue. Unless they have some very major donors step up to the plate, it just isn't going to happen anytime soon. Back when this thread was originally created, the school had solicited plans from a couple places.

Keep posting and be opinionated. That is what this place is for!

BTW, here was the original thread that this spawned off of: http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?28121


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## southernindianaballer

Ok....  and as most people understand....  success does not happen by telling a program if you have 5 winning seasons here is what we will do...  we will build a new stadium.
Success is garnered with a plan...  "Hey coach Joe Blow and alumni, we have a comprehensive 2.5 year plan and here are the resources being granted to help build success.  We are committed to make this work and our plan will streamline success."  I feel confident the ISU leadership are operating in this manner.  They have with everything else over the last several years.  We just have not heard the plan yet.


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## agrinut

I'd propose the student take the initiative. That is what happened at MSU for the rec center and the new plaster. Just propose a fee on themselves you could get the bonds that way I'm sure 


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## niklz62

Yeah. Thats how Georgia Southern did some financing to go FBS.


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## Jason Svoboda

agrinut said:


> I'd propose the student take the initiative. That is what happened at MSU for the rec center and the new plaster. Just propose a fee on themselves you could get the bonds that way I'm sure
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure if they can go to that well again. There are already student fees in place for athletics and they did that also when they built the student rec center.


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## agrinut

Jason Svoboda said:


> Not sure if they can go to that well again. There are already student fees in place for athletics and they did that also when they built the student rec center.



Well that maybe the case. The BearFee was specifically a capital improvements fee that falls off after the bonds have been paid. Currently there is no fee for athletics at MO State


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## Jason Svoboda

agrinut said:


> Well that maybe the case. The BearFee was specifically a capital improvements fee that falls off after the bonds have been paid. Currently there is no fee for athletics at MO State
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yeah, I don't know what the student fee for athletics is anymore. I thought it was like $100 per semester. I remember the student fee for the student rec center was $120/semester and that started back in 2006. Not sure how long it was slated to run.


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## agrinut

That is substantial. The rec center was originally $80 per semester and has fallen back to an operating level of $12. BearFee is $50 per semester. All other fees are academic fees. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## niklz62

On a side note, I think the potential from that type of fee is what is keeping Liberty(agrinut's new favorite team:cheeky from getting into a FBS conference.


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## southernindianaballer

Agreed....  Missouri State stadium and Georgia Southern stadium are stadiums to review for ideas....  I think our stellar AD is all over it.  He is good!  Also, seems a potential plan has been hatched to bump start financing.  Student fees at ISU are reasonable, tuition is fairly low...  A $50 fee per semester for 14k students is 1.4 million a year.  A modified student rec/sports fee.  A 25k seat stadium is possible.   If it is really wanted it can happen.  Does ISU want the students to take on the burden?


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## SycamoreStateofMind

Why? Indiana State is not going to build a brand new football staium. 

It makes zero sense and will not happen. It is more financially feasible for us to build a multi use facility with track and football being the featured sports. 

Why would you build a football stadium in this town and use it 6 times a year?!?! We don't host concerts in this town, the thing will go unused for the majority of the year.


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## GuardShock

Doesn't soccer use our current field too?


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## Superfan1

Correct they do use it right now. That would make to much sense though for ISU to put up a multiuse facility.


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## treeman

GuardShock said:


> Doesn't soccer use our current field too?



Yes, but our new track and field which is being built as we speak will host the soccer matches (correct me if i'm wrong SSOM). So in a year or two Memorial Stadium will NOT have soccer.


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## GuardShock

I think I heard that too Treeman. We would need such stadium to be a multi-use facility. What is the current capacity of the stadium. What if we just added seats along the back side? I don't really wanna see it move. I like it and I like the walk during homecoming. It's in a good location. Maybe we could cut costs in 1/3 and upgrade the seating where we are now.


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## southernindianaballer

SSOM...good point... multi - use facility makes sense also....  I use the term "football stadium" loosely whether the facility is shared or not.  Another point is soccer is moving away from Memorial Stadium so some sort of plan "must" be in place.  Remember....  enrollment is over 13k  now with goals to reach 18 in a few years and based on past few years of increased enrollment I have no reason not to be believe they will also hit that goal.  With large facility investments we need to think 25 years ahead, not the present.   If we think in that vane we will keep pushing money over and over into upgrades.  We need to hit the sweet spot of spending/investing wisely.  I see nothing wrong with a dedicated football facility or multi purpose facility since I haven't seen a plan for either one.  Significant revenue generator "can" be football with only 6 home games.  Future.....


----------



## niklz62

I like all the ideas we have.  I have a soft spot for Memorial Stadium but I understand that it will need replaced.  Imo, its the best tailgating venue in the MVC and most of the other places ive been due to the easy access.  That might not hold true if we were selling out.  

I think with all the questions that are going on with the BCS and D1 schools and the potential reshaping of college football in the next few years that we should do what it takes to position ourselves not to take a step down (whatever that may be).  I feel like the administration is cognizant of that.  I'm OK with the multi-purpose stadium, if it gets it built sooner.  I prefer not to have a track between the stands and the field but I dont think we'd be having financing discussions if the team was selling out weekly.  I think with a nice stadium around the track there would be more opportunities to host big meets which would be a nice selling point.


----------



## TreeTop

GuardShock said:


> I think I heard that too Treeman. We would need such stadium to be a multi-use facility. What is the current capacity of the stadium. What if we just added seats along the back side? I don't really wanna see it move. I like it and I like the walk during homecoming. It's in a good location. Maybe we could cut costs in 1/3 and upgrade the seating where we are now.



I doubt this will happen, but I agree, I think the location is awesome for tailgating and "The Walk".  And if that was to happen, it would cool to make the "new stands" the bigger stands with a brand new press box and suites, while the existing stands would be the smaller side.


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## Jason Svoboda

The cost to rehab Memorial Stadium would be insane. Next time you're in there, actually take a hard look at the structure. It is cracking and chipping all over the place.

Just so some of you can do a little more background and research, here you go:

http://irt2.indstate.edu/ir/assets/splan/Campus_Master_Plan.pdf
http://www.in.gov/che/files/ISU_2013-15_budget_narrative_pdf.pdf

Go to page 3-3 of the master plan. You can see the track/soccer facility and if you look just East, you can see the football stadium placeholder.


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## niklz62

can a soccer fan answer this for me?...does a regulation size soccer field fit inside a track?


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## IndyTreeFan

Looking at the new track from my son's dorm room, there is no way the football stadium and track stadium are going to be the same facility.  There simply isn't enough room at the track for a football field.  Sorry, _*if*_ the football stadium gets built, it'll be a stand-alone facility.


----------



## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> Looking at the new track from my son's dorm room, there is no way the football stadium and track stadium are going to be the same facility.  There simply isn't enough room at the track for a football field.  Sorry, _*if*_ the football stadium gets built, it'll be a stand-alone facility.



From what I've read / been told by Univ administrators; I get the distinct impression that the plan hasn't been finalized.   Dr Bradley and Ron Prettyman have said before... "if someone wants to hand the school a check for $10M / $12M / $15M to build a football stadium, they're happy to sit down and start planning on building it."

I think the only way we (ISU) can get a new fball stadium is a multi-use facility.   I'd LOVE to see a ~25K horseshoe or bowl stadium built; use LOTS of red brick, Indiana Limestone, Wrought Iron, Sycamore Trees  BUT until an alumni or other person hands over that check...  I see us having a multi-use facility.

Personnally, I think it's difficult to sell deep-pocketed alumni on a stand-alone football stadium given our FCS status, our historic fball program and current $$$ bottomline.   I wish I was wrong but I believe we're where we're at given our resources.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

4Q_iu said:


> From what I've read / been told by Univ administrators; I get the distinct impression that the plan hasn't been finalized.   Dr Bradley and Ron Prettyman have said before... "if someone wants to hand the school a check for $10M / $12M / $15M to build a football stadium, they're happy to sit down and start planning on building it."
> 
> I think the only way we (ISU) can get a new fball stadium is a multi-use facility.   I'd LOVE to see a ~25K horseshoe or bowl stadium built; use LOTS of red brick, Indiana Limestone, Wrought Iron, Sycamore Trees  BUT until an alumni or other person hands over that check...  I see us having a multi-use facility.
> 
> Personnally, I think it's difficult to sell deep-pocketed alumni on a stand-alone football stadium given our FCS status, our historic fball program and current $$$ bottomline.   I wish I was wrong but I believe we're where we're at given our resources.



I see where you're coming from, but I'm just going by what I can actually see being built.  There is not nearly enough room in the infield of the new track to put a 130 yard by 90 yard football field.  I just don't see it.  Maybe I'm wrong, but we'd have the teams' sidelines actually on the track itself.

And I still think they've got some serious money pledged already, or they wouldn't have the level of planning done that's done.  I could be wrong, but if you don't have a plan to move forward, you don't have detailed architectural plans and solid cost estimates.  But, I figured when the power conferences moved for total control of the NCAA, it would slow this all down until it shakes out...


----------



## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> I see where you're coming from, but I'm just going by what I can actually see being built.  There is not nearly enough room in the infield of the new track to put a 130 yard by 90 yard football field.  I just don't see it.  Maybe I'm wrong, but we'd have the teams' sidelines actually on the track itself.
> 
> And I still think they've got some serious money pledged already, or they wouldn't have the level of planning done that's done.  I could be wrong, but if you don't have a plan to move forward, you don't have detailed architectural plans and solid cost estimates.  But, I figured when the power conferences moved for total control of the NCAA, it would slow this all down until it shakes out...



Agree w/ perspective on logical NEED for separate facilities

Agree w/ NCAA Div 1_FBS Power 5 conferences 'destroying' college football as we know it.

IF (When) that happens; we could EASILY be left w/ a "white elephant"


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## niklz62

someone could make some money dropping people off at brown avenue to do the walk from east to west.

and our lottery is up to $105M.  I plan on donating some of that for a stadium


----------



## southernindianaballer

Respectfully,  I think there are two major track and field teams in this great state.... ISU and the school in Bloomington.  The facility in Bloomington is dedicated and is one of 9 IAAF certified venues in the USA.  Only 6 IAAF venues are on college campuses.  So....  There might be a market to host major events in Terre Haute.  I think the key is about 4k permanent seats and then another 9k of mobile seating... allowing fans  and teammates to get up close.  This keeps costs down and allows for wonderful viewing so fans can be mobile too.  An advantage of a track/field soccer facility.  I would think they will seek IAAF certification for world events...  I mean why not?
Sycamores can grow fast if the soil is right.


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## Superfan1

We have the cross country course out East that is a top notch one. Why not have track and field be there too. Could be a good nichce for Terre Haute.


----------



## landrus13

A new stadium isn't coming anytime soon. I say maybe 10 years, maybe less if a donor steps up. Indiana State just simply doesn't have the resources.


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## treeman

southernindianaballer said:


> I think the key is about 4k permanent seats and then another 9k of mobile seating...



If you saw the renderings of the proposed track, it is a thing of beauty. Now, will it be done like the renderings depict? probably not. will we even get to phase 49584, which is when the grandstands are to be added to the track? i don't know. But the only thing that keeps me optomistic about this project in particular is the man John McNichols. If you know him, he does things the right way and i don't believe that he would settle for a track that just "gets the job done".

Now as far as building a football stadium. Yes, we desperately need one but this whole BCS, FBS, Power 5 realignment really needs to settle and IF ISU gets in the same tier as the non-power 5 conferences (c-usa, MAC, MW, sun belt, ETC.) that is when you make your move and build. There are just to many unknowns right now to seriously make a move if the money was there.


----------



## niklz62

treeman said:


> If you saw the renderings of the proposed track, it is a thing of beauty. Now, will it be done like the renderings depict? probably not. will we even get to phase 49584, which is when the grandstands are to be added to the track? i don't know. But the only thing that keeps me optomistic about this project in particular is the man John McNichols. If you know him, he does things the right way and i don't believe that he would settle for a track that just "gets the job done".
> 
> Now as far as building a football stadium. Yes, we desperately need one but this whole BCS, FBS, Power 5 realignment really needs to settle and IF ISU gets in the same tier as the non-power 5 conferences (c-usa, MAC, MW, sun belt, ETC.) that is when you make your move and build. There are just to many unknowns right now to seriously make a move if the money was there.



There's no point in making plans if you dont know what the plans need to include.  It sucks but we (ISU) probably wont be part of the initial decision on what to do with college football.  Hopefully we are part of the second conversation.


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## 4Q_iu

Those conversations are already over and continuing.

I don't see the MVFC OR the MVC at ANY of the conversations.

I believe you'll see the Sun Belt and MAC, some of the C-USA schools coming BACK to FCS or whatever it's called then.  All of the 'new money' coming IN b/c of the football playoff will NOT be shared w/ those schools OUTSIDE of the Power 5; except for the occasional TOKEN #4 team from the non-power 5 IF they EVER break INTO that 4-team playoff.

Hate to show y'all reality


----------



## agrinut

4Q_iu said:


> Those conversations are already over and continuing.
> 
> I don't see the MVFC OR the MVC at ANY of the conversations.
> 
> I believe you'll see the Sun Belt and MAC, some of the C-USA schools coming BACK to FCS or whatever it's called then.  All of the 'new money' coming IN b/c of the football playoff will NOT be shared w/ those schools OUTSIDE of the Power 5; except for the occasional TOKEN #4 team from the non-power 5 IF they EVER break INTO that 4-team playoff.
> 
> Hate to show y'all reality



Originally I had this opinion, after seeing the G5 cut of the new revenue I just don't think this is the case. 


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## 4Q_iu

agrinut said:


> Originally I had this opinion, after seeing the G5 cut of the new revenue I just don't think this is the case.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



How much is G5's cut?


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## agrinut

4Q_iu said:


> How much is G5's cut?



85 million..... I think you will see the NCAA move a couple leagues up rather than down. The face that all the g5 have 2 times the say of every FCS school is concerning. 


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## 4Q_iu

agrinut said:


> 85 million..... I think you will see the NCAA move a couple leagues up rather than down. The face that all the g5 have 2 times the say of every FCS school is concerning.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



And your definition of G5 is...

The power 5 (Big Ten, ACC, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12)?


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## southernindianaballer

Can someone please explain what fbs and fcs have to do with ISU building a new football stadium?  I thought this was a financial decision and/or a decision for the student life, downtown Terre Haute, etc.   Seems like nobody wants ISU to do better... who is for it?  I just don't see what the ncaa has to do with ISU getting students and fans to come to a good football game.  Help!  Are guys suggesting we allow someone else to control our destiny?  We have a good administration that seems to be moving ISU in the right direction.  Drive through campus and talk to some students.


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## southernindianaballer

ISU fans and alumni obviously are not on this thread.  Lol


----------



## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> Can someone please explain what fbs and fcs have to do with ISU building a new football stadium?  I thought this was a financial decision and/or a decision for the student life, downtown Terre Haute, etc.   Seems like nobody wants ISU to do better... who is for it?  I just don't see what the ncaa has to do with ISU getting students and fans to come to a good football game.  Help!  Are guys suggesting we allow someone else to control our destiny?  We have a good administration that seems to be moving ISU in the right direction.  Drive through campus and talk to some students.



Have you been following the last 2- 5- 10-years of NCAA Div I football?

ISU can currently afford to keep an FCS team, MAINLY because we play 1-2 "Money" games (i.e. 2013 contests vs Purdue and IU, 2014 contests vs IU and ISU_Muncee)

With all of the foreseeable changes in the FUTURE, the following questions can be asked:

* will ISU have the $$$ to build a new football stadium?
* will ISU still HAVE a football team?
* will we have the $$$ to move up to FBS?


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## southernindianaballer

Thanks for the reply.   So based on the ISU Master Plan....  football is a very important part of student culture at ISU and plans are to build a new stadium.  So we assume it will happen based on public documents required on being a public institution.  FBS or FCS who knows.....    I'm sure there is a plan.  I'm sure they are looking at funding options....  If they are interested in FCS I'm sure they will build for it or have expansion options.


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## agrinut

I was there Saturday and thought memorial was more than adequate currently. I understand wanting to improve things but building a 25k football facility seems to be a drastic change. I get the issue with enrollment and retention of students but I would think 70 million on a football facility would likely alienate a few people. I haven't done any research but what would the economic impact of 125-150k people? Furthermore who are you gonna play? MSU, UNI, NDSU do they move the needle enough to draw 25k? Just played a ranked "national" profile school on Saturday with beautiful weather... I'm all for the sycs upgrading football stadiums just think the current suggestion is a bit much. 


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## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> Thanks for the reply.   So based on the ISU Master Plan....  football is a very important part of student culture at ISU and plans are to build a new stadium.  So we assume it will happen based on public documents required on being a public institution.  FBS or FCS who knows.....    I'm sure there is a plan.  I'm sure they are looking at funding options....  If they are interested in FCS I'm sure they will build for it or have expansion options.



So... in reading your response, it doesn't sound like you HAVE been following NCAA football for the last 2-5 years.

We are ALREADY competing AT the NCAA Div I FCS level.

Any football stadium IN that Master Plan is to (at a minimum) replace existing Memorial Stadium w/ a new Stadium, across 3d St
(that US-41) from the State campus.

Here's the "tricky" part for you to follow:  Just because the school WANTS to have a football team doesn't necessarily mean
the school can AFFORD to have a football team.

For instance, I WANT a CLASSIC, matched numbers 1957 Corvette; in Pearl White paint and a navy leather interior.  That doesn't mean
I can AFFORD it.

I WANT to own my own island some where off the coast of Maine to Massachusetts.  Guess what -- I CAN'T AFFORD it.

See the difference?

NCAA football has changed a lot in the last two years and until all of the $$$$ issues get sorted out; I see us (and ALL of FCS football),
standing outside w/ our noses pressed against the proverbial glass.


----------



## 4Q_iu

agrinut said:


> I was there Saturday and thought memorial was more than adequate currently. I understand wanting to improve things but building a 25k football facility seems to be a drastic change. I get the issue with enrollment and retention of students but I would think 70 million on a football facility would likely alienate a few people. I haven't done any research but what would the economic impact of 125-150k people? Furthermore who are you gonna play? MSU, UNI, NDSU do they move the needle enough to draw 25k? Just played a ranked "national" profile school on Saturday with beautiful weather... I'm all for the sycs upgrading football stadiums just think the current suggestion is a bit much.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I've never been a huge fan of Memorial.

I'd love a stadium w/ the same, slighter larger seatingn in a SYMETRICAL configuration next to/on campus -- NOT 3 miles away.  DO what Liberty did; build what you need TODAY but have the designs, engineering, perhaps SOME foundational work done in order to expand when needed as EASY as possible.


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## IndyTreeFan

4Q_iu said:


> I've never been a huge fan of Memorial.
> 
> I'd love a stadium w/ the same, slighter larger seatingn in a SYMETRICAL configuration next to/on campus -- NOT 3 miles away.  DO what Liberty did; build what you need TODAY but have the designs, engineering, perhaps SOME foundational work done in order to expand when needed as EASY as possible.



Along that line, and I _know_ you'll love this 4Q, when Notre Dame Stadium was designed by Knute Rockne himself, he included plans for the expansion completed in 1996 which increased seating to 80,000, as well as another expansion to increase seating to - get this - 135,000.  Ah, the magic of thinking big!

Anyway, my point is that anything we build should already have expansion plans completed.  We don't have to build it, but we should be prepared to do so.


----------



## 4Q_iu

IndyTreeFan said:


> Along that line, and I _know_ you'll love this 4Q, when Notre Dame Stadium was designed by Knute Rockne himself, he included plans for the expansion completed in 1996 which increased seating to 80,000, as well as another expansion to increase seating to - get this - 135,000.  Ah, the magic of thinking big!
> 
> Anyway, my point is that anything we build should already have expansion plans completed.  We don't have to build it, but we should be prepared to do so.



Screw Knute Rockne --- he probably stole the idea from Fielding Yost who designed Michigan Stadium to be expanded to 150K...   plus Mich. Stadium is older than n.d. stadium.


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## IndyTreeFan

4Q_iu said:


> Screw Knute Rockne --- he probably stole the idea from Fielding Yost who designed Michigan Stadium to be expanded to 150K...   plus Mich. Stadium is older than n.d. stadium.



Knew you'd like that...opcorn:


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## southernindianaballer

Meant FBS.... typo lol...  I find it difficult to comprehend ISU dropping football.   Don't think that is being considered. ... after all our AD has a nice history with football programs.  ISU is consistently fulfilling the objectives outlined in the master plan.  I mean they have been knocking out the objectives pretty well...  it is really impressive and I am not just blowing smoke.  It is real.


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## Eleven

Not sure Prettyman ever had football before ISU, did he?


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## southernindianaballer

You are of great wisdom.


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## southernindianaballer

Eleven said:


> Not sure Prettyman ever had football before ISU, did he?


You are of great wisdom.


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## niklz62

Ok, I'm in the middle of binge watching Breaking bad but here's some things.

1.  Some recent things have changed the talk about college football and some possible drastic changes. Some have happened within the last year. I don't know what it wil look like but I think Ron Prettyman and the Prez think football is an important part of the university.  I think our goal may be to be in the level of play below the big dogs. Not sure how that will look. I'd bet some OVC schools drop to the next level down. 

2.  I really like SIU's stadium and it would cost $30M to build now OR less since it was built in Illinois and I assume 45% was stolen by someone. 

3.  SIU's stadium isn't big enough to be FBS right now. 

4.  Biggest problem with Memorial Stadium in my mind is it isn't a north south configuration. I know that may be petty compared to some people's problems due to steps and other stuff but UN-north south field bug the $hit out of me. (I swear 50% of the small school fields go E W and they always put the scoreboard in the West so every Friday night kickoff comes from the scoreboard end and I am staring right into the sun). I never noticed when I was playing

5.  An expandable stadium would be nice, just like my fat pants.  I would like some amount of luxury boxes.

6. Alcohol available during games. (Keep in mind I'm the guy that thinks he will win the lottery to donate money)

7. Wasnt there a urban legend that the Hulman Family was going to build a dome if they would change the name of the school to Hulman State University?

8. Gotta get back to TV


----------



## bluestreak

niklz62 said:


> Ok, I'm in the middle of binge watching Breaking bad but here's some things.
> 
> 1.  Some recent things have changed the talk about college football and some possible drastic changes. Some have happened within the last year. I don't know what it wil look like but I think Ron Prettyman and the Prez think football is an important part of the university.  I think our goal may be to be in the level of play below the big dogs. Not sure how that will look. I'd bet some OVC schools drop to the next level down.
> 
> 2.  I really like SIU's stadium and it would cost $30M to build now OR less since it was built in Illinois and I assume 45% was stolen by someone.
> 
> 3.  SIU's stadium isn't big enough to be FBS right now.
> 
> 4.  Biggest problem with Memorial Stadium in my mind is it isn't a north south configuration. I know that may be petty compared to some people's problems due to steps and other stuff but UN-north south field bug the $hit out of me. (I swear 50% of the small school fields go E W and they always put the scoreboard in the West so every Friday night kickoff comes from the scoreboard end and I am staring right into the sun). I never noticed when I was playing
> 
> 5.  An expandable stadium would be nice, just like my fat pants.  I would like some amount of luxury boxes.
> 
> 6. Alcohol available during games. (Keep in mind I'm the guy that thinks he will win the lottery to donate money)
> 
> 7. Wasnt there a urban legend that the Hulman Family was going to build a dome if they would change the name of the school to Hulman State University?
> 
> 8. Gotta get back to TV



Dude enjoys your posts.


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## 4Q_iu

1.  Agree that we may WANT to keep, upgrade football BUT CAN we?  Again, as long as we can continue playing 1-2 Power 5 FBS games a year to collect that ~$1.0M --- then sure.

1a.  IF we can't play those games, where will we get that $$$?

2.  n/a
3.  n/a
4.  the BIGGEST problem... its' too far away from campus
5.  ANY new stadium must be 'easily' expandable
6.  what does State, County and City ordinances say...
7.  ummm -- no.   By the time the Hulman's donated the bulk / balance of their foundation (1971); there wasn't an idea/goal/plan for that $$$ to be given to ISU.   The Hulman's donated the current site of RHIT in 1917 and funded the RHIT Union Building in 1966.


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## southernindianaballer

niklz62 said:


> Ok, I'm in the middle of binge watching Breaking bad but here's some things.
> 
> 1.  Some recent things have changed the talk about college football and some possible drastic changes. Some have happened within the last year. I don't know what it wil look like but I think Ron Prettyman and the Prez think football is an important part of the university.  I think our goal may be to be in the level of play below the big dogs. Not sure how that will look. I'd bet some OVC schools drop to the next level down.
> 
> 2.  I really like SIU's stadium and it would cost $30M to build now OR less since it was built in Illinois and I assume 45% was stolen by someone.
> 
> 3.  SIU's stadium isn't big enough to be FBS right now.
> 
> 4.  Biggest problem with Memorial Stadium in my mind is it isn't a north south configuration. I know that may be petty compared to some people's problems due to steps and other stuff but UN-north south field bug the $hit out of me. (I swear 50% of the small school fields go E W and they always put the scoreboard in the West so every Friday night kickoff comes from the scoreboard end and I am staring right into the sun). I never noticed when I was playing
> 
> 5.  An expandable stadium would be nice, just like my fat pants.  I would like some amount of luxury boxes.
> 
> 6. Alcohol available during games. (Keep in mind I'm the guy that thinks he will win the lottery to donate money)
> 
> 7. Wasnt there a urban legend that the Hulman Family was going to build a dome if they would change the name of the school to Hulman State University?
> 
> 8. Gotta get back to TV



I like your thoughts....  SIU and ISU have similar demographics.   ISU enrollment will be higher than SIU by significant margin in a few years.  Saluki Stadium is an inexpensive but functional design and fairly attractive visually.  I see the ISU Wabash Cannonball Stadium being similar, but a bit larger.   20k instead of 15k seats with another 5k on an end zone knoll.  All that for less than 40 million.  50 bucks per semester for each student gets it done.  If a donor doesn't want to contribute to the betterment of ISU.... have the students do it on their own.


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## Syc70

My two cents on the new stadium issue.  The Liberty beat writer referred it as "ancient Memorial Stadium."  The Liberty announcers kept referring to the odd configuration with seating only one side.  Even high school football fields have seating on both sides!  The bleachers if dangerous, should have been replaced, irregardless if needed for attendance or not.  It simply does not look like a college football stadium with seating on only one side!  The "hill" was a bad idea by a bad athletic administration that crippled  ISU athletics for a long time.  Attendance at this time does not warrant a new stadium, would an on-campus facility boost attendance?  Absolutely, but how much?  Will Terre Haute ever support ISU football and other sports?  Will students ever support ISU football and other sports and not run home every weekend?  The SIU stadium,  at least on TV, appears more like enclosed aluminum bleachrs than a true stadium.  I like the Wabash Cannonball Stadium name,  use the Sycamore theme for landscaping, and do things right or not at all.  A new stadium should have seating on both sides and probably as high as Memorial Stadium is now, at least on the home side.  Anything less makes it look small time.  Build it to be expandable, but 20k would be more than sufficient since we can't seem to draw 10k now. Curved stadium seating on both sides that could be expanded for a horseshoe configuration in the future.  "Sycamore Seating under the Tees" on the hill in one end zone.   Start a campaign for Sycamore Saplings, small donations from lots of alumni that would add up or enhance the big donor we need.  As an alum I live about 2 hours away but try to get to a couple games every year.  I remember the old baseball stadium, the new bleachers with the old u-shaped baseball seats, when the new stadium was built and astro-turf laid, when the bleachers were torn down and the stupid hill put it its place.  I hope I get to see the new "down by the river stadium."


----------



## Daveinth

Here is the thing you need to do get Danny Tanooos to drop the money from taxpayer  money the way he did the aquatic center . Make it less than $10 Million and just keep the taxpayers mouths shut .

http://wthitv.com/2014/09/15/donations-needed-for-aquatic-center/


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## Jason Svoboda

Daveinth said:


> Here is the thing you need to do get Danny Tanooos to drop the money from taxpayer  money the way he did the aquatic center . Make it less than $10 Million and just keep the taxpayers mouths shut .
> 
> http://wthitv.com/2014/09/15/donations-needed-for-aquatic-center/



You can't build shit for $10m. The first phase of the track facilities is nearly half that. The total on all of the track facilities will be $15m I believe... Twitch can correct me if I'm wrong if he ever gets out of a tree stand anytime soon.

IMO, you can get something done nice in the $35-40m range. UNC Charlotte built the Jerry Richardson Stadium in 2013 that seats 15k and is expandable to 40k for $40m. The total the school had to come up with was $30m as they sold the naming rights to Jerry Richardson for $10m. Since the football center and field are also named, I'd imagine that it came in even cheaper. 

Here is what it entailed:

The Football Stadium Complex includes the 15,000 seat Jerry Richardson Stadium, the Judy W. Rose Football Center, McColl-Richardson Field and two practice fields. A 6,636 square-foot press box, complete with media seating, a university box and television and radio booths adorn the west sideline at the concourse level. The field house includes coaches offices and meeting rooms, locker rooms and weight and training rooms as well as a 1,920 square-foot Academic Center, a 2,757 square-foot tiered classroom and a 5,947 square-foot Hospitality Deck.

http://www.charlotte49ers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=23200&ATCLID=205425793

I know Indiana State has several alumni with VERY deep pockets that have great interest in the school. You have to leverage that. Even staying at FCS, if football is in the long term plans, this has to be done.


----------



## IndyTreeFan

Jason Svoboda said:


> You can't build shit for $10m. The first phase of the track facilities is nearly half that. The total on all of the track facilities will be $15m I believe... Twitch can correct me if I'm wrong if he ever gets out of a tree stand anytime soon.
> 
> IMO, you can get something done nice in the $35-40m range. UNC Charlotte built the Jerry Richardson Stadium in 2013 that seats 15k and is expandable to 40k for $40m. The total the school had to come up with was $30m as they sold the naming rights to Jerry Richardson for $10m. Since the football center and field are also named, I'd imagine that it came in even cheaper.
> 
> Here is what it entailed:
> 
> The Football Stadium Complex includes the 15,000 seat Jerry Richardson Stadium, the Judy W. Rose Football Center, McColl-Richardson Field and two practice fields. A 6,636 square-foot press box, complete with media seating, a university box and television and radio booths adorn the west sideline at the concourse level. The field house includes coaches offices and meeting rooms, locker rooms and weight and training rooms as well as a 1,920 square-foot Academic Center, a 2,757 square-foot tiered classroom and a 5,947 square-foot Hospitality Deck.
> 
> http://www.charlotte49ers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=23200&ATCLID=205425793
> 
> I know Indiana State has several alumni with VERY deep pockets that have great interest in the school. You have to leverage that. Even staying at FCS, if football is in the long term plans, this has to be done.



If we could pick that stadium up and set it down across Third St. from campus, I'd be happy.  That stadium is beautiful!

And even with the attendance we have now, it wouldn't look too bad.  As best I can count, it has about 1/2 the rows that Memorial Stadium does.  That'll spread everyone out.  Plus, you'd get an initial boost the first year by just having a new stadium.  If you could have a good football team, too, many of those might keep coming back...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

IndyTreeFan said:


> If we could pick that stadium up and set it down across Third St. from campus, I'd be happy.  That stadium is beautiful!
> 
> And even with the attendance we have now, it wouldn't look too bad.  As best I can count, it has about 1/2 the rows that Memorial Stadium does.  That'll spread everyone out.  Plus, you'd get an initial boost the first year by just having a new stadium.  If you could have a good football team, too, many of those might keep coming back...



Did you watch the two videos on the page? If not, check those out especially the Cribs one. They're in the Niner Extras box. Could you imagine how our football recruiting could benefit? We're getting some good athletes right now with absolute shit for facilities.


----------



## Westbadenboy

My two cents on this whole thing ---- I've posted this basic idea sometime in the past:

1)  Please, no "U" shaped stadium with only 15 - 20 rows of seats all-around -- does NOT look like a college stadium in my opinion.
2) Curved seating on both sides please -- 10,000 on one side ............5000 on the opposite side (built so it could be expanded to 10,000 also)  Have the seating tapered so you have many, many rows between the 30 yd lines that then taped down as you go toward the endzone..  Put the Press Box   TV camera areas     etc   on the smaller side so you are always showing the most impressive part of the structure on TV  (Hey ISU !  Next home game this year that is televised move one of those lifts from the endzone to the "hill" side and put the main TV camera up there so the folks at home don't think they are watching an intramural game with 35 people watching on a hill .............jeeezzz !).
3) With press box etc raised up above the 5000 seats use the gap between the seating and the box for huge (but should be inexpensive) banners -- when you add the extra 5000 seats they will fill in this gap.
4) In one endzone a three story building  Level One  Team area   dressing rooms  etc.    Level Two football offices  etc.     Level Three  Stadium Club with food  alumni area   nice deck overlooking the field   Varsity club room
5) Other endzone  ---- landscaped hill with Sycamore tree forest       place for Sycamore Sam to have a "home"  maybe have the team arrive on the field thru this forest  (imagine a night game with cool blue lighting and smokey "fog"  rising in the forest as the team comes thru the trees onto the field (maybe a fake image of the Wabash Cannonball train moving behind them seen thru the trees).  Meanwhile the 300 member Marching Sycamore band wows the crowd as the team emerges.  I get goose pimples thinking about it.
6)  Lights for night games -- real lights
7) Lots of Sycamore trees and cool landscaping around the parking areas and walkways.

Bring this on !


----------



## Westbadenboy

*OR ...................*

If the Power 5 manage to eliminate college football at the MAC /// MVFC level then .....................

                Never Mind


----------



## treeman

we so desperately need new facitlities across the board. the track being built is the first totally new or completely renovated facility on campus in how many decades????

look at the other facilities in the conference:
Missouri State - JQH is a new beautiful basketball arena, they just got done with a huge makeover to their football stadium
Southern Illinois - Opened up a new football stadium a few years ago, just got done with a huge renovation to their basketball arena, just built a new track and field complex.
Wichita State - Don't know much about koch arena but i'm sure it is one of the best in the conference, their baseball stadium is a cathedral.
Loyola - Small but very very nice basketball arena that fits them
Illinois State - beautiful baseball field, just got done (i think) with a huge renovation to their football stadium.
Northern Iowa - Fairly new basketball arena that looks very nice.
Evansville - play in a brand new professional looking arena.
Drake - nothing new but they do have one of the best track and field complexes in the nation - with a football field in the middle
Bradley - Carver is a nice facility but is starting to show it's age
Indiana State - ..........we have a nice cross country course..........


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## IndyTreeFan

treeman said:


> we so desperately need new facitlities across the board. the track being built is the first totally new or completely renovated facility on campus in how many decades????
> 
> look at the other facilities in the conference:
> Missouri State - JQH is a new beautiful basketball arena, they just got done with a huge makeover to their football stadium
> Southern Illinois - Opened up a new football stadium a few years ago, just got done with a huge renovation to their basketball arena, just built a new track and field complex.
> Wichita State - Don't know much about koch arena but i'm sure it is one of the best in the conference, their baseball stadium is a cathedral.
> Loyola - Small but very very nice basketball arena that fits them
> Illinois State - beautiful baseball field, just got done (i think) with a huge renovation to their football stadium.
> Northern Iowa - Fairly new basketball arena that looks very nice.
> Evansville - play in a brand new professional looking arena.
> Drake - nothing new but they do have one of the best track and field complexes in the nation - with a football field in the middle
> Bradley - Carver is a nice facility but is starting to show it's age
> Indiana State - ..........we have a nice cross country course..........



**Missouri State's facilities wouldn't be nearly as nice as they are without the deep, deep pockets of John Q Hammons.

**Southern Illinois was able to pay for all their athletic improvements through the use of a local income tax approved by the citizens of Carbondale.  We tried to do something like this last year, but the state government stuck their tongue out and said go away.

**Wichita State has the ultra-deep pockets of the Koch brothers, plus a loyal fan base that will pony up money to keep them competitive in the athletic arms race.

**Illinois State is located in one of the wealthiest areas of Illinois and has nice corporate support.

We do not have the alumni who are willing to step up with money for our athletic facilities, or much of anything else, for that matter.  The idea that the state government shot down last year to do a $60M reno of Hulman Center shows how far the IU and Purdue grads and Ivy Tech employees in the legislature will go to make sure that we cannot even get admission to the arms race.  Talk about "The Man" keepin' 'ya down...

The Foundation has a long way to go to get our alumni to loosen the vice grips on their wallets.


----------



## Bluethunder

Jason Svoboda said:


> I know Indiana State has several alumni with VERY deep pockets that have great interest in the school. .



My ears are burning! :lol:


----------



## Bluethunder

treeman said:


> we so desperately need new facitlities across the board. the track being built is the first totally new or completely renovated facility on campus in how many decades????
> 
> look at the other facilities in the conference:
> Missouri State - JQH is a new beautiful basketball arena, they just got done with a huge makeover to their football stadium
> Southern Illinois - Opened up a new football stadium a few years ago, just got done with a huge renovation to their basketball arena, just built a new track and field complex.
> Wichita State - Don't know much about koch arena but i'm sure it is one of the best in the conference, their baseball stadium is a cathedral.
> Loyola - Small but very very nice basketball arena that fits them
> Illinois State - beautiful baseball field, just got done (i think) with a huge renovation to their football stadium.
> Northern Iowa - Fairly new basketball arena that looks very nice.
> Evansville - play in a brand new professional looking arena.
> Drake - nothing new but they do have one of the best track and field complexes in the nation - with a football field in the middle
> Bradley - Carver is a nice facility but is starting to show it's age
> Indiana State - ..........we have a nice cross country course..........



I liked the improvements made to Bob Warn field.  Its not the Taj Mahal, but it is a nice facility for a school our size IMO.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> You can't build shit for $10m. The first phase of the track facilities is nearly half that. The total on all of the track facilities will be $15m I believe... Twitch can correct me if I'm wrong if he ever gets out of a tree stand anytime soon.
> 
> IMO, you can get something done nice in the $35-40m range. UNC Charlotte built the Jerry Richardson Stadium in 2013 that seats 15k and is expandable to 40k for $40m. The total the school had to come up with was $30m as they sold the naming rights to Jerry Richardson for $10m. Since the football center and field are also named, I'd imagine that it came in even cheaper.
> 
> Here is what it entailed:
> 
> The Football Stadium Complex includes the 15,000 seat Jerry Richardson Stadium, the Judy W. Rose Football Center, McColl-Richardson Field and two practice fields. A 6,636 square-foot press box, complete with media seating, a university box and television and radio booths adorn the west sideline at the concourse level. The field house includes coaches offices and meeting rooms, locker rooms and weight and training rooms as well as a 1,920 square-foot Academic Center, a 2,757 square-foot tiered classroom and a 5,947 square-foot Hospitality Deck.
> 
> http://www.charlotte49ers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=23200&ATCLID=205425793
> 
> I know Indiana State has several alumni with VERY deep pockets that have great interest in the school. You have to leverage that. Even staying at FCS, if football is in the long term plans, this has to be done.



Great points.... just to tick off more alumni and students.  Memorial Stadium is ranked at like 88 in fcs facilities. 
Between Saluki Stadium, UNC Charlotte's stadium and Missouri State's stadium you would think someone could get a plan together and make it happen.  Not everyone will think it is perfect in their mind.  We all have our "ideal" stadium in mind.  Fact is... anything similar to those facilities would be outstanding.   I would just go to 20k expandable to 25k in an endzone.   Heck if SIU can fill theirs up on campus ISU can too.  Serve beer.  Small war memorial, Crossroads of America Memorial, sycamore trees, call it Wabash Cannonball Stadium.   Give the band their own special Pride of Indiana band section.  Heck...  they sound great and can even sing well.  Have you stayed after the game to listen?  That band is better than IU's marching 100!  According to the master plan tailgating areas will surpass those at Memorial Stadium.  All along the Wabash behind the track, beside the stadium, in front of the stadium - all tailgate area..   Bars are only a 5-8 minute walk to downtown.  What a perfect scenario.  Most campus and cities don't have this opportunity.   Shame on us for not capitalizing.  Students pay 50 bucks a semester for 10 years and they fund half of it.  Put a neon sign up saying "funded by students and alumni."  Just get it done.  Can't wait to hear the band play Wabash Cannonball and see the team running through the blue fog of the sycamore tree forest on to the field!  LOL. With an animation of the train rolling and smoking across the Wabash bridge running through terre haute and the campus!  Heck if our football team can get stellar athletes like they have now with "no" facilities. ... think if they had facilities what would happen?  If our school backs the program then this has to be done.... fcs or fbs is not a concern.  Heck, if all the schools waited for information about that - nothing would happen.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

southernindianaballer said:


> Great points.... just to tick off more alumni and students.  Memorial Stadium is ranked at like 88 in fcs facilities.
> Between Saluki Stadium, UNC Charlotte's stadium and Missouri State's stadium you would think someone could get a plan together and make it happen.  Not everyone will think it is perfect in their mind.  We all have our "ideal" stadium in mind.  Fact is... anything similar to those facilities would be outstanding.   I would just go to 20k expandable to 25k in an endzone.   Heck if SIU can fill theirs up on campus ISU can too.  Serve beer.  Small war memorial, Crossroads of America Memorial, sycamore trees, call it Wabash Cannonball Stadium.   Give the band their own special Pride of Indiana band section.  Heck...  they sound great and can even sing well.  Have you stayed after the game to listen?  That band is better than IU's marching 100!  According to the master plan tailgating areas will surpass those at Memorial Stadium.  All along the Wabash behind the track, beside the stadium, in front of the stadium - all tailgate area..   Bars are only a 5-8 minute walk to downtown.  What a perfect scenario.  Most campus and cities don't have this opportunity.   Shame on us for not capitalizing.  Students pay 50 bucks a semester for 10 years and they fund half of it.  Put a neon sign up saying "funded by students and alumni."  Just get it done.  Can't wait to hear the band play Wabash Cannonball and see the team running through the blue fog of the sycamore tree forest on to the field!  LOL. With an animation of the train rolling and smoking across the Wabash bridge running through terre haute and the campus!  Heck if our football team can get stellar athletes like they have now with "no" facilities. ... think if they had facilities what would happen?  If our school backs the program then this has to be done.... fcs or fbs is not a concern.  Heck, if all the schools waited for information about that - nothing would happen.



I love your enthusiasm, so maybe the old farts on this board (myself included) need to step aside and you go ahead and run with your idea. Go to RP and Dr. Bradley explain your vision and how you see paying for it then please report back to us what they say. If you can pull this off then everybody on this board will be forever grateful. Do you understand the difference between fcs and fbs?


----------



## JamesHat

The University of Albany has a concept for a stadium that looks suitable.  I would like to see something similar with balanced home and visitor sides, a building at one end to help keep sound in, and a nice berm on both ends for lawn seating.  If the goal is to have a certain number of seats, say 15,000, a "U" will make the seating along the long sides of the field much lower.  Not a fan of the SIU looking field with the highest seating 20' above the field.


----------



## southernindianaballer

SycamoreFan317 said:


> I love your enthusiasm, so maybe the old farts on this board (myself included) need to step aside and you go ahead and run with your idea. Go to RP and Dr. Bradley explain your vision and how you see paying for it then please report back to us what they say. If you can pull this off then everybody on this board will be forever grateful. Do you understand the difference between fcs and fbs?


Thanks for enjoying my enthusiasm.   My enthusiasm is not meant to get old facts to step aside.  Most consider me an old fart, too.  I think I have a pretty good understanding of fcs and fbs.   I have asked on this board before what being fcs or fbs has to do with building a stadium and I have not heard a good answer yet.   Seems like people want to wait for something.... not sure what could change the fact that a new stadium is needed and it "can" be supported financially.  It's is "basically" the same stadium whether isu is fbs or fcs other than fbs has more seating requirements and attendance goals to potentially meet.  I don't give a rats about the power 5 conferences.  It has nothing to do with students and alumni going to their school's game to support the team and showing pride.  That will never change in college... Students and alumni will show up for games and show their support but there has to be support mechanism coming from the top.   I think it is coming.  I means students and alumni love to support their school and attend games.... the pride is usually embedded in heart and mind after 4 years.


----------



## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> Thanks for enjoying my enthusiasm.   My enthusiasm is not meant to get old facts to step aside.  Most consider me an old fart, too.  I think I have a pretty good understanding of fcs and fbs.   I have asked on this board before what being fcs or fbs has to do with building a stadium and I have not heard a good answer yet.   Seems like people want to wait for something.... not sure what could change the fact that a new stadium is needed and it "can" be supported financially.  It's is "basically" the same stadium whether isu is fbs or fcs other than fbs has more seating requirements and attendance goals to potentially meet.  I don't give a rats about the power 5 conferences.  It has nothing to do with students and alumni going to their school's game to support the team and showing pride.  That will never change in college... Students and alumni will show up for games and show their support but there has to be support mechanism coming from the top.   I think it is coming.  I means students and alumni love to support their school and attend games.... the pride is usually embedded in heart and mind after 4 years.



THIS is the 'reason' FBS and/or FCS have to do with building a stadium.  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Only a FEW of the FBS schools can truly build new and Big New.

Fewer of the FCS schools can afford to build.

Add our 'small' metro area; our (at times) apathetic local fan base, student fan base and alumni fan base
Add that Indiana is not EXPLODING in population they way 'sunbelt' states are
Add that Indiana has (currently) an even MORE fiscally conservative State government

Dr Bradley has said PUBLICLY, REPEATEDLY, if an alumnus or anyone else wants to hand him a check for $10M, he would break ground TOMORROW on the stadium outlined in the Master Plan.  SO--- do YOU know anyone that HAS $10M to add to the cause?  Sadly, I do not.

The REASON the Power 5 play into this argument; THEY (ACC, Big Ten, B12, SEC and Pac-12) are doing EVERYTHING they can to DESTROY the NCAA.  If they DON'T, they've been quite open about LEAVING the NCAA.
And when THAT happens, all of the $$$$$$ (TV MONEY) will FOLLOW the Power 5 conferences.

I don't like it BUT it's the future --- you can count on it.


----------



## southernindianaballer

4Q_iu said:


> THIS is the 'reason' FBS and/or FCS have to do with building a stadium.  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> 
> Only a FEW of the FBS schools can truly build new and Big New.
> 
> Fewer of the FCS schools can afford to build.
> 
> Add our 'small' metro area; our (at times) apathetic local fan base, student fan base and alumni fan base
> Add that Indiana is not EXPLODING in population they way 'sunbelt' states are
> Add that Indiana has (currently) an even MORE fiscally conservative State government
> 
> Dr Bradley has said PUBLICLY, REPEATEDLY, if an alumnus or anyone else wants to hand him a check for $10M, he would break ground TOMORROW on the stadium outlined in the Master Plan.  SO--- do YOU know anyone that HAS $10M to add to the cause?  Sadly, I do not.
> 
> The REASON the Power 5 play into this argument; THEY (ACC, Big Ten, B12, SEC and Pac-12) are doing EVERYTHING they can to DESTROY the NCAA.  If they DON'T, they've been quite open about LEAVING the NCAA.
> And when THAT happens, all of the $$$$$$ (TV MONEY) will FOLLOW the Power 5 conferences.
> 
> I don't like it BUT it's the future --- you can count on it.



Ok.. kewl... I'm learning something here.
So if the power 5 leave the ncaa and who knows, pay their players to play, etc. - will the fcs schools all collapse and disband their football programs and tear down their stadiums?  Or... will they band together and protect their investment?   When people are pushed into a corner - don't they usually come out fighting?
What if we get a donor and then the above still happens after we build a stadium... are we sol?
frankly... based on my economic knowledge and for cast for next few years.... executives are anticipating strong economic growth throughout this great state.... and most of the midwest.
If what your saying is true.... If we get a donor to give 10 million for a stadium we should give it back and say no Thank you.   I'm afraid of what the power 5 may do and Terre Haute's fan base will not support it.  Is this what I'm hearing?


----------



## SycamoreFan317

southernindianaballer said:


> Thanks for enjoying my enthusiasm.   My enthusiasm is not meant to get old facts to step aside.  Most consider me an old fart, too.  I think I have a pretty good understanding of fcs and fbs.   I have asked on this board before what being fcs or fbs has to do with building a stadium and I have not heard a good answer yet.   Seems like people want to wait for something.... not sure what could change the fact that a new stadium is needed and it "can" be supported financially.  It's is "basically" the same stadium whether isu is fbs or fcs other than fbs has more seating requirements and attendance goals to potentially meet.  I don't give a rats about the power 5 conferences.  It has nothing to do with students and alumni going to their school's game to support the team and showing pride.  That will never change in college... Students and alumni will show up for games and show their support but there has to be support mechanism coming from the top.   I think it is coming.  I means students and alumni love to support their school and attend games.... the pride is usually embedded in heart and mind after 4 years.



Are you ready to do some reading? You didn't mention anything in your reply about approaching Dr. Bradley with your ideas, what do you have to lose?
Here are some links to prior discussion on this board about fbs and the ncaa. 
http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?32373-SEC-Power-Play&highlight=power
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...d-obannon-antitrust-lawsuit-vs-ncaa/13801277/
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...uling-means-for-the-ncaa-schools-and-athletes


----------



## SycamoreFan317

southernindianaballer said:


> Ok.. kewl... I'm learning something here.
> So if the power 5 leave the ncaa and who knows, pay their players to play, etc. - will the fcs schools all collapse and disband their football programs and tear down their stadiums?  Or... will they band together and protect their investment?   When people are pushed into a corner - don't they usually come out fighting?
> What if we get a donor and then the above still happens after we build a stadium... are we sol?
> frankly... based on my economic knowledge and for cast for next few years.... executives are anticipating strong economic growth throughout this great state.... and most of the midwest.
> If what your saying is true.... If we get a donor to give 10 million for a stadium we should give it back and say no Thank you.   I'm afraid of what the power 5 may do and Terre Haute's fan base will not support it.  Is this what I'm hearing?



What big club do the fcs schools have to fight with "he who controls the money is in control". Presently fbs has 22 more scholarships for football than fcs so if we are to go fbs it is possible we will have to fun at least 44 more scholarships ($) and then if we are forced to pay the athletes as well ($). Not to mention higher coaches salaries and higher overhead. If you were a potential donor would you not have second thoughts with the above scenario being possible?


----------



## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> Ok.. kewl... I'm learning something here.
> So if the power 5 leave the ncaa and who knows, pay their players to play, etc. - will the fcs schools all collapse and disband their football programs and tear down their stadiums?  Or... will they band together and protect their investment?   When people are pushed into a corner - don't they usually come out fighting?
> What if we get a donor and then the above still happens after we build a stadium... are we sol?
> frankly... based on my economic knowledge and for cast for next few years.... executives are anticipating strong economic growth throughout this great state.... and most of the midwest.
> If what your saying is true.... If we get a donor to give 10 million for a stadium we should give it back and say no Thank you.   I'm afraid of what the power 5 may do and Terre Haute's fan base will not support it.  Is this what I'm hearing?




IF we get that donor, take the $$$ and build.  That's simple.  And Dr Bradley has said that since the Master Plan was written (published Dec 2009)
http://www.indstate.edu/news/news.php?newsid=2075

The non-Power 5 Conferences (ALL other Div I conferences) ARE fighting it --- are they winning?  I don't think they are.

Let me put it THIS way...  when is the last time you saw ESPN or ESPN2 broadcast a mid-season FCS game?  And I DON'T mean a $$$ game for the FCS school.
So, if ESPN was airing OUR game this week (No Iowa) at 12:00 pm Saturday, shoot even the 4:00 pm slot  -- THEN I would believe we (FCS) schools are gaining on the FBS.

I've following college sports since ~1979, w/ the exception of Boise State, I can't think of a school that has started at the 'bottom' and moved to the 'top'

It's great that UT-San Antonio has started their football team.   You know much about San Antonio?  It's a city just a 'bit bigger' than Terre Haute in a Football Mad State that has a GROWING  population.   UNC_Charlotte...   Charlotte NC is just a 'bit bigger' than Terre Haute  and I was STILL shocked that Charlotte added a team.

Great that you have Enthusiasm for this issue.   I, personnally, having followed this issue believe we will see school shuttering football programs, when?  I'm no sure but I believe it will happen.   Turn on the radio, tv, EVERY DAY, I hear stories about parents complaining/bitching about the 'high cost' of education.   Every Day you hear another story about the NFL and their "concussion problem"   I don't see parents wanting to add another "$50 / semester" to the cost for a stadium.

I HOPE football survives and THRIVES at State (and other schools); do I THINK it will...   I am not optimistic.   Every time there is chatter about the Power 5 and the football playoff, you hear Congress stirring in their chairs...   just wait until the first 11-1 team (2nd place) in SEC is left on the sideline... every ****
Senator and US Rep from the SEC states will be SCREAMING in the aisles about the need to "investigate this MultiBillion dollar MONOPOLY"  --  we'll see how long this 4x team playoff format lasts.  Personally, I DON"T think it'll stay at 4-teams for the 'contract period'     They should have went to a 16-team playoff from the beginning; use the existing bowls, rotate them as necessary.  16-team gets you the Conference Champion of EACH FBS conference AND 6 at-large (see BYU, Army)    

We (FCS) schools are pushing a Big Rock up a Big, SLIPPERY mountain.


----------



## Daveinth

Jason Svoboda said:


> You can't build shit for $10m. The first phase of the track facilities is nearly half that. The total on all of the track facilities will be $15m I believe... Twitch can correct me if I'm wrong if he ever gets out of a tree stand anytime soon.
> 
> IMO, you can get something done nice in the $35-40m range. UNC Charlotte built the Jerry Richardson Stadium in 2013 that seats 15k and is expandable to 40k for $40m. The total the school had to come up with was $30m as they sold the naming rights to Jerry Richardson for $10m. Since the football center and field are also named, I'd imagine that it came in even cheaper.
> 
> Here is what it entailed:
> 
> The Football Stadium Complex includes the 15,000 seat Jerry Richardson Stadium, the Judy W. Rose Football Center, McColl-Richardson Field and two practice fields. A 6,636 square-foot press box, complete with media seating, a university box and television and radio booths adorn the west sideline at the concourse level. The field house includes coaches offices and meeting rooms, locker rooms and weight and training rooms as well as a 1,920 square-foot Academic Center, a 2,757 square-foot tiered classroom and a 5,947 square-foot Hospitality Deck.
> 
> http://www.charlotte49ers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=23200&ATCLID=205425793
> 
> I know Indiana State has several alumni with VERY deep pockets that have great interest in the school. You have to leverage that. Even staying at FCS, if football is in the long term plans, this has to be done.



My  point was not that you could get it done more along the lines that if you do it his way you budget it at 9. then ask for donations for the above and beyond the way he did  the aquatics center then you have a 9.8 million head start.  Just my way of humor guess you didn't follow .


----------



## southernindianaballer

4Q_iu said:


> IF we get that donor, take the $$$ and build.  That's simple.  And Dr Bradley has said that since the Master Plan was written (published Dec 2009)
> http://www.indstate.edu/news/news.php?newsid=2075
> 
> The non-Power 5 Conferences (ALL other Div I conferences) ARE fighting it --- are they winning?  I don't think they are.
> 
> Let me put it THIS way...  when is the last time you saw ESPN or ESPN2 broadcast a mid-season FCS game?  And I DON'T mean a $$$ game for the FCS school.
> So, if ESPN was airing OUR game this week (No Iowa) at 12:00 pm Saturday, shoot even the 4:00 pm slot  -- THEN I would believe we (FCS) schools are gaining on the FBS.
> 
> I've following college sports since ~1979, w/ the exception of Boise State, I can't think of a school that has started at the 'bottom' and moved to the 'top'
> 
> It's great that UT-San Antonio has started their football team.   You know much about San Antonio?  It's a city just a 'bit bigger' than Terre Haute in a Football Mad State that has a GROWING  population.   UNC_Charlotte...   Charlotte NC is just a 'bit bigger' than Terre Haute  and I was STILL shocked that Charlotte added a team.
> 
> Great that you have Enthusiasm for this issue.   I, personnally, having followed this issue believe we will see school shuttering football programs, when?  I'm no sure but I believe it will happen.   Turn on the radio, tv, EVERY DAY, I hear stories about parents complaining/bitching about the 'high cost' of education.   Every Day you hear another story about the NFL and their "concussion problem"   I don't see parents wanting to add another "$50 / semester" to the cost for a stadium.
> 
> I HOPE football survives and THRIVES at State (and other schools); do I THINK it will...   I am not optimistic.   Every time there is chatter about the Power 5 and the football playoff, you hear Congress stirring in their chairs...   just wait until the first 11-1 team (2nd place) in SEC is left on the sideline... every ****
> Senator and US Rep from the SEC states will be SCREAMING in the aisles about the need to "investigate this MultiBillion dollar MONOPOLY"  --  we'll see how long this 4x team playoff format lasts.  Personally, I DON"T think it'll stay at 4-teams for the 'contract period'     They should have went to a 16-team playoff from the beginning; use the existing bowls, rotate them as necessary.  16-team gets you the Conference Champion of EACH FBS conference AND 6 at-large (see BYU, Army)
> 
> We (FCS) schools are pushing a Big Rock up a Big, SLIPPERY mountain.



I agree with most of your thoughts...  I am more optimistic though.  I just don't see American football being diminished much at all in the near term.  Heck... D3 schools use football and basketball to fund most other school sports and D1 and D2 do the same for the most part.  I am familiar with school budgets and how they fund....  football is a required entity at ISU.  It needs to be more profitable than it is today.  ISU just needs to be in it to win it and not worry about the outside influences.... that will all shake out naturally and football will still thrive at the collegiate level in all divisions.   Frankly, some schools are able make big profits that have similar demographics as isu - it's all about the financial plan and marketing.  All these schools about the size of ISU keep making big investments in football.  Either they are stupid or have a solid plan and understand future impacts.


----------



## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> I agree with most of your thoughts...  I am more optimistic though.  I just don't see American football being diminished much at all in the near term.  Heck... D3 schools use football and basketball to fund most other school sports and D1 and D2 do the same for the most part.  I am familiar with school budgets and how they fund....  football is a required entity at ISU.  It needs to be more profitable than it is today.  ISU just needs to be in it to win it and not worry about the outside influences.... that will all shake out naturally and football will still thrive at the collegiate level in all divisions.   Frankly, some schools are able make big profits that have similar demographics as isu - it's all about the financial plan and marketing.  All these schools about the size of ISU keep making big investments in football.  Either they are stupid or have a solid plan and understand future impacts.



I know of no school at ISU's size or smaller that make a pure profit (NO funding from the academic side) from football, those few schools that DO are schools the size of Texas (and it's crazy athletic budget), Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc.

Here are some web-pages:
http://espn.go.com/ncaa/revenue
http://www.ethosreview.org/intellectual-spaces/is-college-football-profitable/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciaj...ok-at-the-top-25-teams-revenues-and-expenses/
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...he-most-money-in-college-football-2013-1?op=1

When you factor in expenses of football and ONLY football revenue, very few schools turn a profit.  And NONE are in the FCS according to those reports


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## southernindianaballer

4Q_iu said:


> I know of no school at ISU's size or smaller that make a pure profit (NO funding from the academic side) from football, those few schools that DO are schools the size of Texas (and it's crazy athletic budget), Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc.
> 
> Here are some web-pages:
> http://espn.go.com/ncaa/revenue
> http://www.ethosreview.org/intellectual-spaces/is-college-football-profitable/
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciaj...ok-at-the-top-25-teams-revenues-and-expenses/
> http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...he-most-money-in-college-football-2013-1?op=1
> 
> When you factor in expenses of football and ONLY football revenue, very few schools turn a profit.  And NONE are in the FCS according to those reports



Ya.... an average 40 million profit per year for the top 25 isn't bad at all.


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## Jason Svoboda

JamesHat said:


> The University of Albany has a concept for a stadium that looks suitable.  I would like to see something similar with balanced home and visitor sides, a building at one end to help keep sound in, and a nice berm on both ends for lawn seating.  If the goal is to have a certain number of seats, say 15,000, a "U" will make the seating along the long sides of the field much lower.  Not a fan of the SIU looking field with the highest seating 20' above the field.



If we're going to do it, we need to do it right. I'm pretty sure I read on that and they stated it only seats like 8k and they paid $25m for it. It is also only expandable to 24k, which I believe 40k is the minimum seating required for FBS -- could be wrong about that..


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## niklz62

I google'd this article:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...sidering-a-move-to-fbs-unity-maybe-the-answer

It says you just have to have enough seats to average 15k every other year.

I think 20,000 would be a good start for size, I think we have had attendances near that in the 70s-80s.  I couldnt find the records on gosycamores.com.

I would also like a stadium that has a lot of suites to rent or buy or whatever.  i think that would get some people that wouldnt normally come.


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## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> Ya.... an average 40 million profit per year for the top 25 isn't bad at all.



Did you look at the exspenses?   FYI U. Alabama had revenues of $123,769,841, they also had EXSPENSES of $123,370,004.
So BAMA had a PROFIT of $299,837

ISU_Muncee had revenues of $22,125,129 and EXPENSES of $19,441,780; a profit of $2,683,349

I didn't see the school that had $40M in profit --- who was it?


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## Keep Calm & March On

Sycamores kicking off to IU in the first game at Memorial Stadium in 1925.


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## niklz62

On the other hand schools spend all their money so not having any left over doesn't mean there couldn't have been a profit


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## southernindianaballer

4Q_iu said:


> Did you look at the exspenses?   FYI U. Alabama had revenues of $123,769,841, they also had EXSPENSES of $123,370,004.
> So BAMA had a PROFIT of $299,837
> 
> ISU_Muncee had revenues of $22,125,129 and EXPENSES of $19,441,780; a profit of $2,683,349
> 
> I didn't see the school that had $40M in profit --- who was it?





4Q_iu said:


> Did you look at the exspenses?   FYI U. Alabama had revenues of $123,769,841, they also had EXSPENSES of $123,370,004.
> So BAMA had a PROFIT of $299,837
> 
> ISU_Muncee had revenues of $22,125,129 and EXPENSES of $19,441,780; a profit of $2,683,349
> 
> I didn't see the school that had $40M in profit --- who was it?



Sorry. Been busy last couple nights... Ya... I was just reading the link you posted...   http://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciaj...ok-at-the-top-25-teams-revenues-and-expenses/
it doesn't matter.... none of that is accurate by design and I think you are baiting me into stating the obvious...  lol....  If you look a bit further you will find many athletic "departments" define expenses differently.  Many programs want to live in the negative so the university has to bail them out each year because they know football is an integral part of the university and they will do it over and over and also qualify for more state tax funding in the big scheme.  I'm not saying that several colleges are NOT losing their butt... because I know they are.... You know... I might have a small business and on paper it looks like I have little profit or I'm losing money.... but I drive a Lexus and vacation globally with little problem.  Lol   also, the fcs schools on average break even.  There is a 55k difference between losing and making money.   Interesting huh?  FCS football program average profits are 2,584,427 and expenses are 2,635,479 for each university - now that's just an average.  Crazy business is athletics.  I think we agree that a stadium "can" help the program.  ISU "can" be "more" profitable than they are now, right?  Just need good decisions and good marketing for what they want.  I think they are on the road to major recovery.


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## southernindianaballer

I'm curious what your thoughts are.  Is it possible to get 50,000 alumni to donate $200 each?  That's 10,000,000 to get started.  The Alumni Wabash Cannonball Stadium.   I would assume the alumni association would be able to negotiate a percentage of profits from food and drink sales at that point.  Set up a Web site....  send email blast to alumni asking to make donation of at least $200.  Stamp their name on a brick, etc.  Thoughts?


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## Jason Svoboda

Do we even have 50,000 living alumni?


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## TreeTop

Jason Svoboda said:


> Do we even have 50,000 living alumni?



And of those 50,000, how many give a rat's behind about sports, let alone ISU sports?


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## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> Do we even have 50,000 living alumni?



I think we have about 90k living alumni...   heck Jason....  As good as you are at rounding up 125 dollar donations for jerseys....  Surely you can find 10 million..  lol


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## Jason Svoboda

southernindianaballer said:


> I think we have about 90k living alumni...   heck Jason....  As good as you are at rounding up 125 dollar donations for jerseys....  Surely you can find 10 million..  lol



Ha! If I worked for the Foundation, I know the first two or three people I'd ask. 

That said, if we do have close to a 100k living alumni, I'd venture a guess that maybe 10% actually care about Sycamore sports and less than half actually contribute in some form or fashion. It may make more sense to try to get 1000 donors to donate $1200 a year ($100/month) for 5 years. That would give them $6m in seed money towards the project. I know I'd probably do it if I knew more about the official plans and what not.


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## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> Ha! If I worked for the Foundation, I know the first two or three people I'd ask.
> 
> That said, if we do have close to a 100k living alumni, I'd venture a guess that maybe 10% actually care about Sycamore sports and less than half actually contribute in some form or fashion. It may make more sense to try to get 1000 donors to donate $1200 a year ($100/month) for 5 years. That would give them $6m in seed money towards the project. I know I'd probably do it if I knew more about the official plans and what not.


Good point!


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## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> Ha! If I worked for the Foundation, I know the first two or three people I'd ask.
> 
> That said, if we do have close to a 100k living alumni, I'd venture a guess that maybe 10% actually care about Sycamore sports and less than half actually contribute in some form or fashion. It may make more sense to try to get 1000 donors to donate $1200 a year ($100/month) for 5 years. That would give them $6m in seed money towards the project. I know I'd probably do it if I knew more about the official plans and what not.



That idea seems realistic and attainable.   I'm in (emotionally and financially)...  the idea makes too much sense though.  If alumni are the major financial partner in the stadium then the foundation should be able to negotiate other income opportunities at stadium events and create a strong financial foundation... pun intended.  Why would the alumni foundation not be all over this?  Too much work?  Risk?  The ris/ reward seems low...


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## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> That idea seems realistic and attainable.   I'm in (emotionally and financially)...  the idea makes too much sense though.  If alumni are the major financial partner in the stadium then the foundation should be able to negotiate other income opportunities at stadium events and create a strong financial foundation... pun intended.  Why would the alumni foundation not be all over this?  Too much work?  Risk?  The ris/ reward seems low...



I'd hazard a guess and say that THIS issue is outside of the 'scope' of the Foundation:

The Indiana State University Foundation has been designated as the receiver and repository of gifts to Indiana State University. The sole function of the Foundation is to promote the welfare of the University. The Foundation has been serving the university since 1928.

*What does the Foundation do?*
The Foundation is the fundraising and friend-raising arm of the university. It engages in development activity, which is another word for fundraising. Stewardship is a Foundation watchword, as we encourage our friends and alumni to benefit the University. The Foundation manages investments which produce income for the University.  It awards scholarships at the direction of our donors. It honors the achievements of our alumni, faculty and staff. It provides tax and estate benefits to our donors.

*Is the Foundation a component of the ISU?*
The Foundation is a non-profit, separately incorporated 501(c)3 organization; and is independent of Indiana State University. Governed by a board of directors; ISU President, Dr. Daniel Bradley serves as ex-officio members of the Foundation board to ensure that the interests of ISU and the Foundation are congruent.
* 
How is the Foundation funded?*
The Foundation is self-supporting and receives no subsidy from ISU. The Foundation earns interest and fees from their investments and other funding mechanisms such as endowments and other gifts.  

*Is the Alumni Association the same thing as the Foundation?*
They are actually separate entities. The Alumni Association is a membership organization made up of alumni and friends of ISU. It receives funding from the University as well as the Foundation; and reports to the President of the Foundation.

http://www.indianastatefoundation.org/AboutFAQ.aspx


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## southernindianaballer

4Q_iu said:


> I'd hazard a guess and say that THIS issue is outside of the 'scope' of the Foundation:
> 
> The Indiana State University Foundation has been designated as the receiver and repository of gifts to Indiana State University. The sole function of the Foundation is to promote the welfare of the University. The Foundation has been serving the university since 1928.
> 
> *What does the Foundation do?*
> The Foundation is the fundraising and friend-raising arm of the university. It engages in development activity, which is another word for fundraising. Stewardship is a Foundation watchword, as we encourage our friends and alumni to benefit the University. The Foundation manages investments which produce income for the University.  It awards scholarships at the direction of our donors. It honors the achievements of our alumni, faculty and staff. It provides tax and estate benefits to our donors.
> 
> *Is the Foundation a component of the ISU?*
> The Foundation is a non-profit, separately incorporated 501(c)3 organization; and is independent of Indiana State University. Governed by a board of directors; ISU President, Dr. Daniel Bradley serves as ex-officio members of the Foundation board to ensure that the interests of ISU and the Foundation are congruent.
> *
> How is the Foundation funded?*
> The Foundation is self-supporting and receives no subsidy from ISU. The Foundation earns interest and fees from their investments and other funding mechanisms such as endowments and other gifts.
> 
> *Is the Alumni Association the same thing as the Foundation?*
> They are actually separate entities. The Alumni Association is a membership organization made up of alumni and friends of ISU. It receives funding from the University as well as the Foundation; and reports to the President of the Foundation.
> 
> http://www.indianastatefoundation.org/AboutFAQ.aspx



Good details....  it looks like I mentioned the foundation and association in the same breath.   At any rate...  why wouldn't the foundation and association consider this?  It seems the foundation is responsible for raising funds....  I'm guessing it's much work and some risk is involved...  maybe they have gone to the well a lot lately or something.   But I think it is a fair assumption that Jason's idea to fund the stadium with "targeted" alumni and with minimal funding dollar requirements might work.  You agree?


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## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> I'd hazard a guess and say that THIS issue is outside of the 'scope' of the Foundation:
> 
> The Indiana State University Foundation has been designated as the receiver and repository of gifts to Indiana State University. The sole function of the Foundation is to promote the welfare of the University. The Foundation has been serving the university since 1928.
> 
> *What does the Foundation do?*
> The Foundation is the fundraising and friend-raising arm of the university. It engages in development activity, which is another word for fundraising. Stewardship is a Foundation watchword, as we encourage our friends and alumni to benefit the University. The Foundation manages investments which produce income for the University.  It awards scholarships at the direction of our donors. It honors the achievements of our alumni, faculty and staff. It provides tax and estate benefits to our donors.
> 
> *Is the Foundation a component of the ISU?*
> The Foundation is a non-profit, separately incorporated 501(c)3 organization; and is independent of Indiana State University. Governed by a board of directors; ISU President, Dr. Daniel Bradley serves as ex-officio members of the Foundation board to ensure that the interests of ISU and the Foundation are congruent.
> *
> How is the Foundation funded?*
> The Foundation is self-supporting and receives no subsidy from ISU. The Foundation earns interest and fees from their investments and other funding mechanisms such as endowments and other gifts.
> 
> *Is the Alumni Association the same thing as the Foundation?*
> They are actually separate entities. The Alumni Association is a membership organization made up of alumni and friends of ISU. It receives funding from the University as well as the Foundation; and reports to the President of the Foundation.
> 
> http://www.indianastatefoundation.org/AboutFAQ.aspx



The Sycamore Athletic Foundation is part of the Foundation and they raise money for athletics.


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## SycamoreinTexas

4Q_iu said:


> IF we get that donor, take the $$$ and build.  That's simple.  And Dr Bradley has said that since the Master Plan was written (published Dec 2009)
> http://www.indstate.edu/news/news.php?newsid=2075
> 
> The non-Power 5 Conferences (ALL other Div I conferences) ARE fighting it --- are they winning?  I don't think they are.
> 
> Let me put it THIS way...  when is the last time you saw ESPN or ESPN2 broadcast a mid-season FCS game?  And I DON'T mean a $$$ game for the FCS school.
> So, if ESPN was airing OUR game this week (No Iowa) at 12:00 pm Saturday, shoot even the 4:00 pm slot  -- THEN I would believe we (FCS) schools are gaining on the FBS.
> 
> I've following college sports since ~1979, w/ the exception of Boise State, I can't think of a school that has started at the 'bottom' and moved to the 'top'
> 
> It's great that UT-San Antonio has started their football team.   You know much about San Antonio?  It's a city just a 'bit bigger' than Terre Haute in a Football Mad State that has a GROWING  population.   UNC_Charlotte...   Charlotte NC is just a 'bit bigger' than Terre Haute  and I was STILL shocked that Charlotte added a team.
> 
> Great that you have Enthusiasm for this issue.   I, personnally, having followed this issue believe we will see school shuttering football programs, when?  I'm no sure but I believe it will happen.   Turn on the radio, tv, EVERY DAY, I hear stories about parents complaining/bitching about the 'high cost' of education.   Every Day you hear another story about the NFL and their "concussion problem"   I don't see parents wanting to add another "$50 / semester" to the cost for a stadium.
> 
> I HOPE football survives and THRIVES at State (and other schools); do I THINK it will...   I am not optimistic.   Every time there is chatter about the Power 5 and the football playoff, you hear Congress stirring in their chairs...   just wait until the first 11-1 team (2nd place) in SEC is left on the sideline... every ****
> Senator and US Rep from the SEC states will be SCREAMING in the aisles about the need to "investigate this MultiBillion dollar MONOPOLY"  --  we'll see how long this 4x team playoff format lasts.  Personally, I DON"T think it'll stay at 4-teams for the 'contract period'     They should have went to a 16-team playoff from the beginning; use the existing bowls, rotate them as necessary.  16-team gets you the Conference Champion of EACH FBS conference AND 6 at-large (see BYU, Army)
> 
> We (FCS) schools are pushing a Big Rock up a Big, SLIPPERY mountain.



San Antonio is just a tad bigger than Terre Haute??? 2.2 million in San Antonio metro compared to 168,000 in Terre Haute?? 

Just face it people, football will never be attract more than 10,000 to an ISU game.


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## 4Q_iu

SycamoreinTexas said:


> San Antonio is just a tad bigger than Terre Haute??? 2.2 million in San Antonio metro compared to 168,000 in Terre Haute??
> 
> Just face it people, football will never be attract more than 10,000 to an ISU game.



Unfortunately, I couldn't find (not sure it exists) a 'Snarky' or 'Sarcastic' emoticon in Jason's "list of emoticons"

I'm well AWARE of the size of San Antonio.

My sarcasm is related to the number of times I see UTSA, Georgia State used as comparisons to Indiana State football;  everyone
'forgets' (hint I use single quotes to display my snarkiness / sarcasm) that Atlanta (Ga State) and San Antonio (UTSA) are worlds
BEYOND Terre Haute.

AND people forget that both of those programs have the LUXURY in playing in newer, bigger venues than our beloved Memorial Stadium.


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## IndyTreeFan

With the dearth of winning football being played in Indiana, I truly believe we could build a fanbase that could exceed 10,000 per game.  However, in order to do that, a few things need to happen.  First, ISU can never - NEVER - let its athletic programs fall into the crapper again.  This must be understood and supported from the Board of Trustees on down.  Second, the university must do something different to market its biggest potential moneymakers, football and men's basketball.  I don't know what that is, but it would certainly be worth ISU's time and money to figure it out.  Surely there's something at ISU called a 'College of Business' that might have a degree referencing a thing called 'marketing.'  Sure seems like the athletic department could walk the three blocks to Federal Hall and see if some mutually beneficial arrangement could be worked out.  Just a thought.  

But, Memorial Stadium _must_ be replaced.  As a risk management graduate, I can tell you, that facility doesn't have 10 years left without major renovation.  And that would be a waste.


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## southernindianaballer

Can someone tell me what the future purpose of the white industrial building will be beside the track and river?  Just wondering....


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## treeman

Ive heared from a good source that they want to make those into apartments or offices for the athletic department. Although the way that he described it it made it sound like the plans were still pretty much up in the air and nothing is even close to moving forward with that. I would be all for demolishing it and making that into a park like setting.


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## bluebill

*Big Job*



treeman said:


> Ive heared from a good source that they want to make those into apartments or offices for the athletic department. Although the way that he described it it made it sound like the plans were still pretty much up in the air and nothing is even close to moving forward with that. I would be all for demolishing it and making that into a park like setting.



I worked in that building in 1952 @3 making CV beer cans for the American Can Co.  I assure you that would be a big wrecking job!  I think it is still a sturdy old structure with lots of floor space. Built when concrete was pored SOLID......but gotta come down someday.


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## JamesHat

Is that building large enough to be used as an indoor practice facility?  Is the ceiling tall enough?


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## Jason Svoboda

Watching the Jackrabbits/Penguins game on ESPN3.

They raised $32 million in 13 months to pay for their new Indoor Facility. They have a $65m new stadium coming next.

Looks like they don't embrace excuses over there. Very impressive.


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