# UPDATED: Valpo officially accepts MVC invitation



## Jason Svoboda

Rothstein is as reliable as a source comes typically. 

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/m...additions-following-wichita-states-departure/

Here is how basketball budgets would look if that happened. Also don't know if that means Murray State would also be invited into the MVFC as I doubt the OVC would let them to keep football there.

$3,128,419 - Bradley (no football) - 121st nationally
$2,899,699 - Northern Iowa - 132nd nationally
$2,899,667 - Evansville (no football) - 133rd nationally
$2,745,553 - Loyola (no football) - 139th nationally
$2,666,213 - Valparaiso (non-scholarship football) - 143rd nationally
$2,472,212 - Drake (non-scholarship football) - 153rd nationally
$2,452,961 - Illinois State - 156th nationally
$2,279,917 - Missouri State - 171st nationally
$2,241,413 - Southern Illinois - 175th nationally
$2,218,712 - Murray State - 177th nationally
$1,832,975 - Indiana State - 208th nationally

Since we're taking North Dakota into the MVFC, adding Murray State would move the MVFC up to 12 teams. That could lead to some travel budget relief for schools. If so, here is how the football budgets look from 2015 OpEd expense data with UND and MSU:

$4,647,923 - North Dakota State
$4,062,137 - Illinois State
$4,019,362 - North Dakota
$3,949,953 - Youngstown State
$3,896,248 - Indiana State
$3,834,721 - Southern Illinois
$3,631,109 - Northern Iowa
$3,561,150 - Missouri State
$3,415,555 - South Dakota
$3,259,104 - Western Illinois
$2,926,564 - South Dakota State
$2,623,731 - Murray State


----------



## Southgrad07

Could be a lot worse if true...11 is an odd number to settle on, double round robin 20 game schedule??  Still would rather have Belmont if we are going for a private school.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Southgrad07 said:


> Could be a lot worse if true...11 is an odd number to settle on, double round robin 20 game schedule??  Still would rather have Belmont if we are going for a private school.


My guess is this is who they believe they'll be able to get consensus on. That way the cash strapped schools (us, Evansville, etc) can bus to both schools and keep costs down.


----------



## BrokerZ

Southgrad07 said:


> Could be a lot worse if true...11 is an odd number to settle on, double round robin 20 game schedule??  Still would rather have Belmont if we are going for a private school.



I'm totally fine with a double-round-robin 20 game conference schedule.  We have a hard enough time scheduling home games, this would at least guarantee one more home game for us a year.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> I'm totally fine with a double-round-robin 20 game conference schedule.  We have a hard enough time scheduling home games, this would at least guarantee one more home game for us a year.


Totally agree. This will allow us to spend our limited funds more wisely, will cut down on travel expenses and theoretically we should have higher gate revenues based on more home games. There have been two years in recent years where we couldn't afford to buy a home game and ended up with 13 home games and playing less games than everyone else.

Now you'll have your 20 conference games, your typical D3 (Rose/DePauw tuneup), 3-4 exempt tourney games and the MVC/MWC Challenge. Keep in mind our traditional H/Hs with IUPUI and Ball State... that only leaves you with a handful of games to have to get so buying a real home game becomes a more realistic option. 16 home game slates should become standard. If that doesn't excite fans, they can piss right off.


----------



## Southgrad07

Makes sense on all fronts. Would of loved to add a trip to Nashville to my yearly or bi yearly calendar, but this would make financial  sense. 

Btw look at those football figures...Not exactly a return on investment. Lol Had no clue we spent what we did until Jason pointed it out a few months ago..Cuddos to you and your research on this subject and everything else.. You da man


----------



## bigsportsfan

I guess now the question is if Murray State and Valpo want to accept our invite............. thoughts?


----------



## SycamoreFan317

bigsportsfan said:


> I guess now the question is if Murray State and Valpo want to accept our invite............. thoughts?



Full court press to get Murray State.


----------



## NewRelease24

SycamoreFan317 said:


> Full court press to get Murray State.



If they would join in football, at least we wouldn't be the only school with bleachers on only one side! Ha


----------



## bigsportsfan

BrokerZ said:


> I'm totally fine with a double-round-robin 20 game conference schedule.  We have a hard enough time scheduling home games, this would at least guarantee one more home game for us a year.



In basketball, would that mean three "play-in" games? Not that I get to vote, but I think #11 in the standings should just be left out if it works out this way.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Have no problem with Valpo, adds an old rival for us;  is the distance to Nashville too much to over come (Belmont vs Murray )? Unsure if I want either OVC...  And rumors Belmont declined in 2013...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> Have no problem with Valpo, adds an old rival for us;  is the distance to Nashville too much to over come (Belmont vs Murray )? Unsure if I want either OVC...  And rumors Belmont declined in 2013...


I wouldn't be interested in adding two privates. By adding one of each, you at least have 5 schools with scholarship football and 5 with none or non-scholarship. If it went in favor of the privates with no/non-scholarship football, we'd better have an exit strategy because they'd have conference control if/when the next team exits.


----------



## ISUCC

Jason Svoboda said:


> I wouldn't be interested in adding two privates. By adding one of each, you at least have 5 schools with scholarship football and 5 with none or non-scholarship. If it went in favor of the privates with no/non-scholarship football, we'd better have an exit strategy because they'd have conference control if/when the next team exits.



Been wondering the same, are we trying to get Murray State with the hopes that Belmont would be willing to come along with them??


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> Been wondering the same, are we trying to get Murray State with the hopes that Belmont would be willing to come along with them??


I don't think so. I think Belmont knows they're the big fish in a small pond in OVC. My guess is their goal is to continue to dominate hoops there until they could possibly get a bigger conference invite. They're basically assured a NCAA/NIT invite every year. That is a great recruiting piece no matter what people think about the OVC.


----------



## lakesbison

tons of NDSU talk on radio/twitter today around Fargo.

NDSU brings instant rivalries with Northern Iowa, Illinois State for sure... even SIU, Indiana St Missouri state... and it would make the football/basketball games even more exciting all around wouldn't ya think??

NDSU can go alone, we don't need sdsu to come as a package. 

NDSU has new arena , 6000 capacity.

NDSU 3 big dances in 8 years, 1 big dance win.


----------



## bigsportsfan

lakesbison said:


> tons of NDSU talk on radio/twitter today around Fargo.
> 
> NDSU brings instant rivalries with Northern Iowa, Illinois State for sure... even SIU, Indiana St Missouri state... and it would make the football/basketball games even more exciting all around wouldn't ya think??
> 
> NDSU can go alone, we don't need sdsu to come as a package.
> 
> NDSU has new arena , 6000 capacity.
> 
> NDSU 3 big dances in 8 years, 1 big dance win.



I would take you in a heartbeat. Travel distance may be only concern for some.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Southgrad07 said:


> Makes sense on all fronts. Would of loved to add a trip to Nashville to my yearly or bi yearly calendar, but this would make financial  sense.
> 
> Btw look at those football figures...Not exactly a return on investment. Lol Had no clue we spent what we did until Jason pointed it out a few months ago..Cuddos to you and your research on this subject and everything else.. You da man


If you're interested in seeing long term numbers, here you go:

Football budgets since 2003:

2003 - $1,506,202
2004 - $1,694,795
2005 - $1,809,916
2006 - $1,736,243
2007 - $2,081,579
2008 - $2,033,169
2009 - $2,350,468
2010 - $2,649,218
2011 - $3,166,886
2012 - $2,859,361
2013 - $3,183,454
2014 - $3,432,997
2015 - $3,896,248

Basketball budgets since 2003:

2003 - $1,458,287
2004 - $1,120,742
2005 - $1,158,318
2006 - $1,200,460
2007 - $1,302,547
2008 - $1,248,174
2009 - $1,340,015
2010 - $1,445,143
2011 - $1,704,707
2012 - $1,695,685
2013 - $1,605,635
2014 - $1,886,004
2015 - $1,832,975

Something I hadn't noticed until I downloaded the trend data as well is our baseball budget has nearly doubled since 2003 from $440k to $825k. So baseball is now within a million of our prized sport and football outspends it over 2:1. Prettyman got a lot of praise on these forums and from the Sycamore community but IMO, he completely shat on our flagship sport during his time as AD. I hope Clink has a plan to address this nonsense.


----------



## ISUCC

interesting article in the NWI Times about whether or not Valpo should accept an invite, if offered

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sport...cle_94731998-1c00-11e7-b3e0-43c65eaf13e7.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> interesting article in the NWI Times about whether or not Valpo should accept an invite, if offered
> 
> http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sport...cle_94731998-1c00-11e7-b3e0-43c65eaf13e7.html


Honestly, any team invited needs to think long and hard about an invitation. They're going to jump into a completely different level of competition. Yes, they've fielded good teams in the past, but the Valley is still a step up from the OVC, Summit and Horizon in overall talent, even without the Shockers. If your program was the belle of the ball in those conferences, you're likely going to go from contending every year to contending cyclically unless you decided to put considerable resources into becoming an upper echelon team. Further, moving into the Valley doesn't open you to any new recruiting footprint as most of those teams already touch Illinois/Indiana/Ohio/Kentucky pretty well. 

How will your fan base response if you go from being a semi regular NCAA/NIT tournament team from your current conference to possibly a once-in-awhile contender? Been trying to find discussion from those fan bases under consideration but haven't found much outside of Murray State:

http://www.racerfans.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17987


----------



## treeman

The top 3 obvious realistic choices for the MVC are Belmont, Valpo, and Murray State (in any order). If the MVC adds 1 of those schools (which i'd be happy with any of those 3) the MVC is a 1 bid league unfortunately and we continue to put a band-aid on the situation. Now the real homerun and proactive thinking from the MVC would be to land all 3 of those schools and go to a 12 team conference with divisions. That would be a multi-bid league and help The Valley regain it's profile as the premier mid-major conference of the midwest.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

According to a source, MVC took no action today in meeting about new membership. Ultimate action will be "thorough, swift and discreet."— Dave Reynolds (@DaveReynolds2) April 10, 2017


----------



## BrokerZ

Personally, I'm all for Murray State joining the Valley.  They have a tremendous history and more then plenty of recent success to show for it.  Their fans apparently travel well, making up almost all of the attendees at the OVC tournament every year.  Reading through their message board, they seem genuinely excited about the opportunity.  I think football will be part of their internal discussions with the OVC about what they realistically can/can't do, but based on a pure discussion of fit regarding basketball, they make a ton of sense. 

But, the more I think about this the less I'm in love with the idea of Valpo.  Are they really a school that can maintain success over a long period of time?  In a way, they seem very much like Evansville with lesser facilities and history.  I have my hesitation about letting them in without knowing full-well what their commitment is to basketball going forward.  They've greatly overachieved, for sure, but what's their long-term plan? Hypothetical questions, obviously...

It's been a while since I've been to Valpo for a game, but the Athletics-Recreation Center needs a renovation similar to Gentile when Loyola was granted admission to the conference.  Are we instead missing an opportunity to go West (New Mexico State, Denver, etc.) or align more with our football brethren in NDSU?


----------



## 4Q_iu

BrokerZ said:


> Personally, I'm all for Murray State joining the Valley.  They have a tremendous history and more then plenty of recent success to show for it.  Their fans apparently travel well, making up almost all of the attendees at the OVC tournament every year.  Reading through their message board, they seem genuinely excited about the opportunity.  I think football will be part of their internal discussions with the OVC about what they realistically can/can't do, but based on a pure discussion of fit regarding basketball, they make a ton of sense.
> 
> But, the more I think about this the less I'm in love with the idea of Valpo.  Are they really a school that can maintain success over a long period of time?  In a way, they seem very much like Evansville with lesser facilities and history.  I have my hesitation about letting them in without knowing full-well what their commitment is to basketball going forward.  They've greatly overachieved, for sure, but what's their long-term plan? Hypothetical questions, obviously...
> 
> It's been a while since I've been to Valpo for a game, but the Athletics-Recreation Center needs a renovation similar to Gentile when Loyola was granted admission to the conference.  Are we instead missing an opportunity to go West (New Mexico State, Denver, etc.) or align more with our football brethren in NDSU?



Given that Murray, KY is only 2 hours from Nashville, TN (the site of every OVC tourney from 1994-2001, 2003-present); it's not too surprising the 'power' program of the OVC would support them...

Maybe going with 3 adds (Valpo, Murray and Belmont) is the best for the Valley.

If we struggle to pay for travel to the Dakotas, how do you figure New Mexico St and Denver will be better?  I doubt its any easier to get to Las Cruces than it is to get to Fargo or Vermillion.

Personnally, I think NewMexico State should be as BOLD as Idaho and downsize their football team and move to the Big Sky.  With the UND Fighting Hawks coming to the MVFC, the Big Sky has "room" for them...


Everyone seems to be in agreement on improvements to Valpo's home court for a move to The Valley but you question Valpo's ability to "maintain success over a long period of t


----------



## BrokerZ

4Q_iu said:


> Given that Murray, KY is only 2 hours from Nashville, TN (the site of every OVC tourney from 1994-2001, 2003-present); it's not too surprising the 'power' program of the OVC would support them...
> 
> Maybe going with 3 adds (Valpo, Murray and Belmont) is the best for the Valley.
> 
> If we struggle to pay for travel to the Dakotas, how do you figure New Mexico St and Denver will be better?  I doubt its any easier to get to Las Cruces than it is to get to Fargo or Vermillion.
> 
> Personnally, I think NewMexico State should be as BOLD as Idaho and downsize their football team and move to the Big Sky.  With the UND Fighting Hawks coming to the MVFC, the Big Sky has "room" for them...



Murray, KY is also only about 3 hours from St. Louis.  Not that big of a difference.  Also, Murray, KY is a tiny town...not necessarily the heart of the Murray State fan base.  I would imagine St. Louis has a decent contingent of Murray State alums, but that's just a guess on my part.

As for going West with expansion...I'm not necessarily advocating for it.  It's just an alternative that really hasn't been discussed up to this point.  Any add outside of Indiana/Kentucky/Illinois is not going to be good from a travel prospective for Indiana State.  We have zero budget; however, we had to charter everything to Wichita already.  A charter to New Mexico State, I doubt, adds all that much to the overall budget.

No matter how we argue this, we are downgrading with whatever team(s) we add to the conference.  Our only options involve bringing in schools from "lesser" conferences.  We can map this out a hundred different ways, but none of them will look particularly good compared to the MVC of 2012.  I'm just not as thrilled about Valpo or Belmont the more I think about them.  Belmont's success is completely tied to it's head coach, who's 64 and has been there for 36 years.  What happens when he retires or leaves?  Valpo's facilities are not up to snuff, and they've only seen recent success.  There isn't another Drew family member, that I'm aware of, ready to take over and coach there again and they just graduated one of their best players in program history.


----------



## 4Q_iu

BrokerZ said:


> Murray, KY is also only about 3 hours from St. Louis.  Not that big of a difference.  Also, Murray, KY is a tiny town...not necessarily the heart of the Murray State fan base.  I would imagine St. Louis has a decent contingent of Murray State alums, but that's just a guess on my part.
> 
> As for going West with expansion...I'm not necessarily advocating for it.  It's just an alternative that really hasn't been discussed up to this point.  Any add outside of Indiana/Kentucky/Illinois is not going to be good from a travel prospective for Indiana State.  We have zero budget; however, we had to charter everything to Wichita already.  A charter to New Mexico State, I doubt, adds all that much to the overall budget.
> 
> No matter how we argue this, we are downgrading with whatever team(s) we add to the conference.  Our only options involve bringing in schools from "lesser" conferences.  We can map this out a hundred different ways, but none of them will look particularly good compared to the MVC of 2012.  I'm just not as thrilled about Valpo or Belmont the more I think about them.  Belmont's success is completely tied to it's head coach, who's 64 and has been there for 36 years.  What happens when he retires or leaves?  Valpo's facilities are not up to snuff, and they've only seen recent success.  There isn't another Drew family member, that I'm aware of, ready to take over and coach there again and they just graduated one of their best players in program history.




what does Denver give us?   They're a hockey school, they 'recently' committed to MBB.   Denver is a Pro sports town, Denver isn't the first school (focus, attention-wise) in the city, state...

I believe they're more committed to Lacrosse than MBB.

New Mexico State...   I still think they're a better fit for the Big Sky than the Valley.     And I wouldn't be shocked if the WAC ceases operations within 5 years.

I could see Cal St - Bakersfield landing in the Big West (with the REST of the Div I Cal State schools...
Grand Canyon would LOVE to be in the WCC, ditto for Seattle
UMKC - a return to the Summit
Chicago St... they lack of $$ will push them to Div III or club /


----------



## BankShot

Murray St. has had a very strong presence in the Evansville-Henderson-Owensboro area as a result of recreation (camping, boating & fishing) @ Land Between the Lakes. Also, Murray has an "in-state tuition" program for S. IN/IL students from selected counties, which no doubt would support their attendance draw in MVC games involving UE/ISU.

https://www.murraystate.edu/admissions/BursarsOffice/2016-2017/


----------



## Fiji Bill 72

Is Eastern Illinois out of the picture? If we could get the Panthers and Murray State, they would strengthen both basketball and football.


----------



## niklz62

Fiji Bill 72 said:


> Is Eastern Illinois out of the picture? If we could get the Panthers and Murray State, they would strengthen both basketball and football.



I was told at one point by one of their old coaches that EIU knew they couldnt compete vs the other MVC facilities.  He also thought we (ISU) had the worst of the current MVC schools.  He played for a MVC school so he wasnt necessarily guessing


----------



## BrokerZ

4Q_iu said:


> what does Denver give us?   They're a hockey school, they 'recently' committed to MBB.   Denver is a Pro sports town, Denver isn't the first school (focus, attention-wise) in the city, state...
> 
> I believe they're more committed to Lacrosse than MBB.
> 
> New Mexico State...   I still think they're a better fit for the Big Sky than the Valley.     And I wouldn't be shocked if the WAC ceases operations within 5 years.
> 
> I could see Cal St - Bakersfield landing in the Big West (with the REST of the Div I Cal State schools...
> Grand Canyon would LOVE to be in the WCC, ditto for Seattle
> UMKC - a return to the Summit
> Chicago St... they lack of $$ will push them to Div III or club /



Denver gives us nothing.  If we were looking to expand West and need a second school, they would make sense in that scenario.  Otherwise...I'm in agreement with you.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Fiji Bill 72 said:


> Is Eastern Illinois out of the picture? If we could get the Panthers and Murray State, they would strengthen both basketball and football.



were they ever IN the picture?

I believe the serious discussions have only involved Valpo, Murray and possibly Belmont...

Eastern gets as many mentions as Western Ill...   all of the Dakota schools and an occasional blurb on other Horizon schools


----------



## bluestreak

4Q_iu said:


> were they ever IN the picture?
> 
> I believe the serious discussions have only involved Valpo, Murray and possibly Belmont...
> 
> Eastern gets as many mentions as Western Ill...   all of the Dakota schools and an occasional blurb on other Horizon schools



Niklz62 probably can shed more light on this, but EIU has a plummeting enrollment problem in addition to the massive budget cuts hitting Illinois colleges.


----------



## 4Q_iu

bluestreak said:


> Niklz62 probably can shed more light on this, but EIU has a plummeting enrollment problem in addition to the massive budget cuts hitting Illinois colleges.




exactly!  Which is (part of the reason) why EIU was never in the conversation.

Again, I don't think any of the OVC schools are our peer ( institutionally )...


at one time, ISU listed 'Peer Institutions', not sure if they still do but we're a 'National University' not a regional one (butler), not a liberal arts college (evansville)

MOST of the Valley members are National Universities...  hopefully, any adds are more national in scope than regional


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> exactly!  Which is (part of the reason) why EIU was never in the conversation.
> 
> Again, I don't think any of the OVC schools are our peer ( institutionally )...
> 
> 
> at one time, ISU listed 'Peer Institutions', not sure if they still do but we're a 'National University' not a regional one (butler), not a liberal arts college (evansville)
> 
> MOST of the Valley members are National Universities...  hopefully, any adds are more national in scope than regional



http://irt2.indstate.edu/cms/ir/index.cfm/isu-data/isu-peers-and-indiana-publics/

http://irt2.indstate.edu/cms/ir/assets/File/student/2016CollegeRankings.pdf


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> http://irt2.indstate.edu/cms/ir/index.cfm/isu-data/isu-peers-and-indiana-publics/
> 
> http://irt2.indstate.edu/cms/ir/assets/File/student/2016CollegeRankings.pdf



Hopefully we're not looking to add Texas Women's University.  I think that will be a blow to the overall conference RPI.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> http://irt2.indstate.edu/cms/ir/index.cfm/isu-data/isu-peers-and-indiana-publics/
> 
> http://irt2.indstate.edu/cms/ir/assets/File/student/2016CollegeRankings.pdf




Thanks -- just found it...

so, only one OVC school is on the list... Tennessee State...

schools from the MAC, Southern, Southland, C-USA, Summit, Horizon, etc, etc


I also don't see any potential Valley members ( athletically-speaking ) on that list


----------



## BankShot

Murray State Discussion re: MVC

https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/non-uk-related-murray-state-to-the-mvc.233486/


----------



## xfactor9600

I've been looking at the Valpo Statistics when it comes to Basketball (and realizing the MVC should add a public institution with Football as well).  Since the 78-79 Season, Valpo is 635-551 (53.5%) overall and 313-235 in Conference Play (57.1%). Just some food for thought.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

xfactor9600 said:


> I've been looking at the Valpo Statistics when it comes to Basketball (and realizing the MVC should add a public institution with Football as well).  Since the 78-79 Season, Valpo is 635-551 (53.5%) overall and 313-235 in Conference Play (57.1%). Just some food for thought.


If they offered scholarship football, they'd be the no brainer choice for me.


----------



## southernindianaballer

A local UNI reporter says in article on UNI board that there are serious discussions with Belmont, Murray, and Valpo.  If only 2 more between SLU, Butler, Dayton, and XU - but I have a tendancy to reach far.
Those 3 make the Mvc more interesting than the shocks imho.


----------



## southernindianaballer

southernindianaballer said:


> A local UNI reporter says in article on UNI board that there are serious discussions with Belmont, Murray, and Valpo.  If only 2 more between SLU, Butler, Dayton, and XU - but I have a tendancy to reach far.
> Those 3 make the Mvc more interesting than the shocks imho.


And to add....
I think most would find the MVC with Belmont, Murray, Valpo and adding A10 schools SLU and Dayton better than the A10.  Just saying SLU and Dayton would be in a better position in the MVC than the A10.


----------



## 4Q_iu

southernindianaballer said:


> And to add....
> I think most would find the MVC with Belmont, Murray, Valpo and adding A10 schools SLU and Dayton better than the A10.  Just saying SLU and Dayton would be in a better position in the MVC than the A10.



Shoot, why stop with Atl-10 schools, make a pitch at OLD MVC schools like some of the schools in the Big 12....

No way SLI or Dayton joins, be great but it'll never happen


----------



## Sycamore Proud

4Q_iu said:


> exactly!  Which is (part of the reason) *why EIU was never in the conversation.
> 
> Again, I don't t*hink any of the OVC schools are our peer ( institutionally )...
> 
> 
> at one time, ISU listed 'Peer Institutions', not sure if they still do but we're a 'National University' not a regional one (butler), not a liberal arts college (evansville)
> 
> MOST of the Valley members are National Universities...  hopefully, any adds are more national in scope than regional




When we look at the hoops side of things EIU has 1 more Indiana All Star than we do!

Mack Smith, Warren Central, 6-2 guard – Averaged 19.5 points, 6.0 rebounds and shot 44 percent from the 3-point line for the Metropolitan Interscholastic Champions. College: Eastern Illinois.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Sycamore Proud said:


> When we look at the hoops side of things EIU has 1 more Indiana All Star than we do!
> 
> Mack Smith, Warren Central, 6-2 guard – Averaged 19.5 points, 6.0 rebounds and shot 44 percent from the 3-point line for the Metropolitan Interscholastic Champions. College: Eastern Illinois.



Well, if that's the standard, Indiana Wesleyan has 2 Indiana All-Stars....  

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <w:WordDocument>   <w:View>Normal</w:View>   <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom>   <w:TrackMoves/>   <w:TrackFormatting/>   <wunctuationKerning/>   <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>   <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>   <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>   <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>   <woNotPromoteQF/>   <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther>   <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian>   <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript>   <w:Compatibility>    <w:BreakWrappedTables/>    <w:SnapToGridInCell/>    <w:WrapTextWithPunct/>    <w:UseAsianBreakRules/>    <wontGrowAutofit/>    <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/>    <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/>    <wontFlipMirrorIndents/>    <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/>   </w:Compatibility>   <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/>   <m:mathPr>    <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/>    <m:brkBin m:val="before"/>    <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/>    <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/>    <m:dispDef/>    <m:lMargin m:val="0"/>    <m:rMargin m:val="0"/>    <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/>    <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/>    <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/>    <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/>   </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->   
  Kyle Mangas, Warsaw: The 6-3 Mangas averaged 22.6 points, 5.6 rebounds and 2.4 assists as a senior to lead Warsaw to an 18-10 record and a regional championship appearance. Mangas scored 1,450 career points. College: Indiana Wesleyan.

  Grant Smith, Connersville: The 6-6 Smith led Connersville to a memorable run, winning back-to-back sectional titles and a 27-2 record as a senior. Smith averaged 18.9 points, 9.9 rebounds and 4.7 assists this season. College: Indiana Wesleyan.
  <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="false"   DefSemiHidden="false" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99"   LatentStyleCount="371">   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footnote text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="header"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footer"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="table of figures"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="envelope address"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="envelope return"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footnote reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="line number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="page number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="endnote reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="endnote text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="table of authorities"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="macro"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="toa heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Closing"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Signature"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Message Header"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Salutation"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Date"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text First Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text First Indent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Note Heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Block Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Hyperlink"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="FollowedHyperlink"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Document Map"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Plain Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="E-mail Signature"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Top of Form"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Bottom of Form"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal (Web)"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Acronym"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Address"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Cite"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Code"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Definition"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Keyboard"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Preformatted"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Sample"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Typewriter"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Variable"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal Table"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation subject"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="No List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Contemporary"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Elegant"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Professional"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Subtle 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Subtle 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Balloon Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="Table Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Theme"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Placeholder Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Revision"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" QFormat="true"    Name="List Paragraph"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Quote"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" QFormat="true"    Name="Subtle Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" QFormat="true"    Name="Subtle Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Bibliography"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="41" Name="Plain Table 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="42" Name="Plain Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="43" Name="Plain Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="44" Name="Plain Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="45" Name="Plain Table 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="40" Name="Grid Table Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="Grid Table 1 Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>  </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style>  /* Style Definitions */  table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-priority:99; 	mso-style-parent:"


----------



## Jason Svoboda

southernindianaballer said:


> And to add....
> I think most would find the MVC with Belmont, Murray, Valpo and adding A10 schools SLU and Dayton better than the A10.  Just saying SLU and Dayton would be in a better position in the MVC than the A10.


On what planet would a school leave a conference where they 1) actually make money on a TV deal and 2) their TV deal actually has them on national TV to join a conference where 1) teams get $0 as part of their media deal and 2) are rarely featured on TV anymore but rather pushed off to ESPN3 streaming? 

There is literally zero benefit outside of joining a lower level conference to beat up on weaker opponents but at this point the A10 doesn't need to do that because it is still a multi-bid league.


----------



## BrokerZ

southernindianaballer said:


> And to add....
> I think most would find the MVC with Belmont, Murray, Valpo and adding A10 schools SLU and Dayton better than the A10.  Just saying SLU and Dayton would be in a better position in the MVC than the A10.



Disclaimer: this is not directed at you personally.  This is just me venting, in general.

What irritates me about the thought of even discussing SLU or Dayton coming to the MVC is that we should have tried it years ago.  We were at our strongest when Creighton and WSU were both in the league, and that was the time we should have been expanding.  Instead, we're being reactionary and waiting for schools to leave before trying to expand.  If we add Valpo and Murray State...great.  Why didn't we do that when WSU was still here?  Why didn't we try and create a league in the mold of the final years of the Big East with 14-16 teams and create a super-mid major in the Midwest?  We just sat on our hands and waited for everyone else to make their move. 

We're going to be left with still a decent basketball conference if/when we add the likes of Valpo and Murray State, but the time to really be proactive left before Creighton exited the conference.  Just very frustrating to watch...


----------



## bluestreak

BrokerZ said:


> Disclaimer: this is not directed at you personally.  This is just me venting, in general.
> 
> What irritates me about the thought of even discussing SLU or Dayton coming to the MVC is that we should have tried it years ago.  We were at our strongest when Creighton and WSU were both in the league, and that was the time we should have been expanding.  Instead, we're being reactionary and waiting for schools to leave before trying to expand.  If we add Valpo and Murray State...great.  Why didn't we do that when WSU was still here?  Why didn't we try and create a league in the mold of the final years of the Big East with 14-16 teams and create a super-mid major in the Midwest?  We just sat on our hands and waited for everyone else to make their move.
> 
> We're going to be left with still a decent basketball conference if/when we add the likes of Valpo and Murray State, but the time to really be proactive left before Creighton exited the conference.  Just very frustrating to watch...




SLU was never really interested in joining the Valley especially when Rev. Lawrence Biondi was president. Biondi was determined to make SLU a major player in men's basketball. He hired Spoonhauer and then Majerus and at one time SLU was packing the Savvis center. That all came unglued after the death of Majerus while at the same time Biondi was in the middle of a political battle with SLU faculty and the Board of Trustees (a battle he eventually lost.) I do think SLU is probably more likely to be interested in the Valley now than it was then, but the odds are still pretty slim.


----------



## 4Q_iu

BrokerZ said:


> Disclaimer: this is not directed at you personally.  This is just me venting, in general.
> 
> What irritates me about the thought of even discussing SLU or Dayton coming to the MVC is that we should have tried it years ago.  We were at our strongest when Creighton and WSU were both in the league, and that was the time we should have been expanding.  Instead, we're being reactionary and waiting for schools to leave before trying to expand.  If we add Valpo and Murray State...great.  Why didn't we do that when WSU was still here?  *Why didn't we try and create a league in the mold of the final years of the Big East with 14-16 teams and create a super-mid major in the Midwest?  We just sat on our hands and waited for everyone else to make their move*.
> 
> We're going to be left with still a decent basketball conference if/when we add the likes of Valpo and Murray State, but the time to really be proactive left before Creighton exited the conference.  Just very frustrating to watch...




Why?  Because the drive for 14-16 team "super conferences" was driven by FBS football.  Period.

That drive is what led to the break up of the original Big East

It's partially to what led to mizzu and texas a/m leaving the big 12 for the $ec.

MBB and other sports played ZERO reason in "super conference" formation.

PLUS, I don't think the MBB coaches wanted a 14-16 team conference; jacobson recently spoke on the 'virtues' of playing a round-robin conference schedule; how THAT is the TRUE determiner of the Conference Champion.

I also believe the budgets of some of the Valley members played a role in a "super-conference"...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Disclaimer: this is not directed at you personally.  This is just me venting, in general.
> 
> What irritates me about the thought of even discussing SLU or Dayton coming to the MVC is that we should have tried it years ago.  We were at our strongest when Creighton and WSU were both in the league, and that was the time we should have been expanding.  Instead, we're being reactionary and waiting for schools to leave before trying to expand.  If we add Valpo and Murray State...great.  Why didn't we do that when WSU was still here?  Why didn't we try and create a league in the mold of the final years of the Big East with 14-16 teams and create a super-mid major in the Midwest?  We just sat on our hands and waited for everyone else to make their move.
> 
> We're going to be left with still a decent basketball conference if/when we add the likes of Valpo and Murray State, but the time to really be proactive left before Creighton exited the conference.  Just very frustrating to watch...


Totally agree. Realignment started over a decade ago and every conference commissioner knew what was coming -- they all stated as much when being interviewed when the first dominoes started falling. Then you had the MVC's fearless leader who absolutely sat on his hands. My guess is he thought his ivory tower was safe because most of the moves were predicated on football but it shows just how shortsighted he was. Then when the Big East fell in 2013 and Creighton was poached, the clock started on Wichita leaving.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Will be interesting to see if this comes into play at all:

http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?38070-Could-Summit-League-pillage-the-MVFC


----------



## Sycamore Proud

4Q_iu said:


> Well, if that's the standard, Indiana Wesleyan has 2 Indiana All-Stars....
> 
> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <w:WordDocument>   <w:View>Normal</w:View>   <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom>   <w:TrackMoves/>   <w:TrackFormatting/>   <wunctuationKerning/>   <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>   <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>   <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>   <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>   <woNotPromoteQF/>   <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther>   <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian>   <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript>   <w:Compatibility>    <w:BreakWrappedTables/>    <w:SnapToGridInCell/>    <w:WrapTextWithPunct/>    <w:UseAsianBreakRules/>    <wontGrowAutofit/>    <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/>    <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/>    <wontFlipMirrorIndents/>    <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/>   </w:Compatibility>   <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/>   <m:mathPr>    <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/>    <m:brkBin m:val="before"/>    <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/>    <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/>    <m:dispDef/>    <m:lMargin m:val="0"/>    <m:rMargin m:val="0"/>    <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/>    <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/>    <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/>    <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/>   </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->
> Kyle Mangas, Warsaw: The 6-3 Mangas averaged 22.6 points, 5.6 rebounds and 2.4 assists as a senior to lead Warsaw to an 18-10 record and a regional championship appearance. Mangas scored 1,450 career points. College: Indiana Wesleyan.
> 
> Grant Smith, Connersville: The 6-6 Smith led Connersville to a memorable run, winning back-to-back sectional titles and a 27-2 record as a senior. Smith averaged 18.9 points, 9.9 rebounds and 4.7 assists this season. College: Indiana Wesleyan.
> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="false"   DefSemiHidden="false" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99"   LatentStyleCount="371">   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footnote text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="header"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footer"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="table of figures"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="envelope address"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="envelope return"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footnote reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="line number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="page number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="endnote reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="endnote text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="table of authorities"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="macro"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="toa heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Closing"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Signature"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Message Header"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Salutation"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Date"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text First Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text First Indent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Note Heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Block Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Hyperlink"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="FollowedHyperlink"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Document Map"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Plain Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="E-mail Signature"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Top of Form"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Bottom of Form"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal (Web)"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Acronym"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Address"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Cite"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Code"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Definition"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Keyboard"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Preformatted"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Sample"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Typewriter"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Variable"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal Table"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation subject"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="No List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Contemporary"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Elegant"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Professional"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Subtle 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Subtle 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Balloon Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="Table Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Theme"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Placeholder Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Revision"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" QFormat="true"    Name="List Paragraph"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Quote"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" QFormat="true"    Name="Subtle Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" QFormat="true"    Name="Subtle Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Bibliography"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="41" Name="Plain Table 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="42" Name="Plain Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="43" Name="Plain Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="44" Name="Plain Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="45" Name="Plain Table 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="40" Name="Grid Table Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="Grid Table 1 Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>  </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style>  /* Style Definitions */  table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-priority:99; 	mso-style-parent:"



So if you are trying to say we suck--as much as I hate to agree, I do.


----------



## lakesbison

pretty quiet out there.

just pick NDSU and get it over with


----------



## Title_BU

4Q_iu said:


> Shoot, why stop with Atl-10 schools, make a pitch at OLD MVC schools like some of the schools in the Big 12....
> 
> No way SLI or Dayton joins, be great but it'll never happen



Dayton would become Methodist to get into the Big East, but that's not going to happen.  They are pretty much stuck in the A10


----------



## 4Q_iu

Title_BU said:


> Dayton would become Methodist to get into the Big East, but that's not going to happen.  They are pretty much stuck in the A10



The debate was on St Louis and Dayton joining the MVC - which is essentially never going to happen....   I think MOST sports fans would agree that both the Flyers and Billikens would love big east membership....  That's also damned unlikely to occur.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> The debate was on St Louis and Dayton joining the MVC - which is essentially never going to happen....   I think MOST sports fans would agree that both the Flyers and Billikens would love big east membership....  That's also damned unlikely to occur.


Hell, why we're at it, I think we should be in the Big 10. I bet would could do some amazing stuff with that $40m per year in media money.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Hell, why we're at it, I think we should be in the Big 10. I bet would could do some amazing stuff with that $40m per year in media money.



Lol!!   Absolutely!!  He'll, I'd love to see what we could do with half that amount!!  Maybe the Easter Bunny will be EXTRA generous!    That and a HELLUVA lot of sycamore alums, fans, etc could hit the jackpot with the tooth fairy!!


----------



## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> On what planet would a school leave a conference where they 1) actually make money on a TV deal and 2) their TV deal actually has them on national TV to join a conference where 1) teams get $0 as part of their media deal and 2) are rarely featured on TV anymore but rather pushed off to ESPN3 streaming?
> 
> There is literally zero benefit outside of joining a lower level conference to beat up on weaker opponents but at this point the A10 doesn't need to do that because it is still a multi-bid league.



Well…  I said I was reaching….  Do I think the current MVC leadership could convince Dayton and SLU to join a Big Valley?  No.   Do I think leadership is available that can create a Midwest power conference that includes the current MVC schools?  Yup.  The TV deals will follow the intrigue and power of the conference.  The teams would get their share of $$ based on the power of the conference.  A Big Valley could get games on cable stations not just the stream channels – even though this is becoming a moot point due the advance of technology and streaming technology.
I’m saying if someone has the ability to make the pitch for geographic & centric power - then it could happen.  I mean really….  The A10 is not that great…  If SLU and Dayton moved to the Big Valley then they have “like” schools, geography sense/cents, regional rivals, etc.  The money they make from the TV deals, etc. is currently squandered with travel to the east coast for all the non-profit sports.
I think everyone knows now –  12-15 teams in a conference is becoming the norm.
I know people think this is impossible – and they are correct.  It’s only impossible with current thinking and attitude, though.  There are definite advantages for teams to have power in their own footprint.

Question:  Which conference has more intrigue?  Which conference is better?  See below... just curious...

*A10*

Davidson College
Davidson, NC
1837	Private – Presbyterian
(PCUSA)
1,756	2014	Wildcats


Duquesne University
Pittsburgh, PA
1878	Private – Catholic
(Spiritans)
10,106	1976,
1993†	Dukes

Fordham University
Bronx, NY
1841	Private – Catholic
(Jesuit)
14,667	1995	Rams

George Mason University
Fairfax, VA
1957	Public	33,917	2013	Patriots

George Washington University
Washington, D.C.
1821	Private – Non-sectarian	25,116	1976	Colonials

La Salle University
Philadelphia, PA
1863	Private – Catholic
(De La Salle Brothers)
6,176	1995	Explorers

University of Massachusetts^
Amherst, MA
1863	Public
(University of Massachusetts)
26,359	1976	Minutemen and Minutewomen

University of Rhode Island
Kingston, RI
1892	Public	16,243	1980	Rams

University of Richmond^
Richmond, VA
1830	Private – Non-sectarian	4,249	2001	Spiders

St. Bonaventure University
St. Bonaventure, NY
1858	Private – Catholic
(Franciscan)
2,406	1979	Bonnies

Saint Joseph's University
Philadelphia, PA
1851	Private – Catholic
(Jesuit)
7,900	1982	Hawks


Virginia Commonwealth University




*The BIG Valley*

Bradley University
Peoria, Illinois
1897	1948,
1955†	Private	$280 million	5,451	Braves

Drake University
Des Moines, Iowa
1881	1907,
1956†	Private	$196 million	5,270	Bulldogs

University of Evansville
Evansville, Indiana
1854	1994	Private	$189.5 million	2,526	Purple Aces

Illinois State University
Normal, Illinois
1857	1981	Public	$98.2 million	20,706	Redbirds

Indiana State University
Terre Haute, Indiana
1865	1977	Public	$56.5 million	13,584	Sycamores

Loyola University Chicago
Chicago, Illinois
1870	2013[7]
Private	$541.7 million	16,437[8]
Ramblers

Missouri State University
Springfield, Missouri
1905	1990	Public	$138.4 million	24,116[9]
Bears
Lady Bears

University of Northern Iowa
Cedar Falls, Iowa
1876	1991	Public	$107.6 million	12,273	Panthers

Southern Illinois University
Carbondale, Illinois
1869	1975	Public	$117.8 million	15,987[10]
Salukis

University of Dayton
Dayton, OH
1850	Private – Catholic
(Marianists)
10,920	1995	Flyers

Saint Louis University
St. Louis, MO
1818	Private – Catholic
(Jesuit)
16,500	2005	Billikens

Belmont University
Nashville, Tennessee
1890	2012	Private	7,771	Bruins

Murray State University
Murray, Kentucky
1922	1948	Public	10,495	Racers

Valparaiso University
Valparaiso, Indiana
1859	2007	Private	4,500	$202,737,000	Crusaders

So...  a few weeks ago - I'm in the Vegas airport...  wearing an ISU shirt...  A group of people start chanting "Larry, Larry, Larry..."  30 minutes later I hand my ticket to the agent before boarding and he says... "Indiana State - Larry Bird!"
ISU still has name recognition per Larry Bird.  I looked around and saw IU, Florida, UNLV, Duke, Michigan shirts... but no chants for them.


----------



## Fife

Good story about the airport.  Where you at in southern IN?


----------



## goindystate

maybe not counting on Belmont

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/2017/04/15/belmont-switching-conferences-mvc/100382846/


----------



## Jason Svoboda

goindystate said:


> maybe not counting on Belmont
> 
> http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/2017/04/15/belmont-switching-conferences-mvc/100382846/


I've been told that Belmont said no again when the MVC asked. Again, there is no incentive for them to come over from the OVC when they have an easier path to the NCAA/NIT tournaments there.

Basically I've heard there are tiers after Belmont declined. Valpo and Murray State are next. Then after those two you have some others with the most interesting name being UT-Arlington. In other words, the Valley was not prepared as usual... surprise, surprise.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

southernindianaballer said:


> Question:  Which conference has more intrigue?  Which conference is better?  See below... just curious...


The A10 and not even close. While it would be a better basketball conference for us to be in, we'd be perennial cellar dwellers getting our brains beat in on a nightly basis. A10 still has the larger media markets and would get a nicer media deal from the Eastern Seaboard Programming Network.



southernindianaballer said:


> So...  a few weeks ago - I'm in the Vegas airport...  wearing an ISU shirt...  A group of people start chanting "Larry, Larry, Larry..."  30 minutes later I hand my ticket to the agent before boarding and he says... "Indiana State - Larry Bird!"
> ISU still has name recognition per Larry Bird.  I looked around and saw IU, Florida, UNLV, Duke, Michigan shirts... but no chants for them.


Aaaaah, good ole Larry Bird stories. Wish we could ALWAYS reminisce back to the late 70s when hearing our name mentioned. That speaks volumes for what people think about our school/program in a "what have you done for me lately" society. Only compounded by the fact that Larry does absolutely jack shit for the program or University.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> The A10 and not even close. While it would be a better basketball conference for us to be in, we'd be perennial cellar dwellers getting our brains beat in on a nightly basis. A10 still has the larger media markets and would get a nicer media deal from the Eastern Seaboard Programming Network.
> 
> Aaaaah, good ole Larry Bird stories. Wish we could ALWAYS reminisce back to the late 70s when hearing our name mentioned. That speaks volumes for what people think about our school/program in a "what have you done for me lately" society. Only compounded by the fact that Larry does absolutely jack shit for the program or University.



Respectfully, the potential BIG Valley would have Chicago (LOL, I know Chicago prefers Pro teams), Cinci metro, St. Louis, Nashville, and let's not forget the thriving metropolis of Terredise.
I know, the A10 power teams of Lasalle, St. Bon, Richmond, Fordham, George Mason, and especially Duquesne are really tuff on a yearly basis and most consider them to be perennial powers - but we might just be able to beat them occasionally if we were an A10 member.  Those schools have a really good fan base, too.  Not sure we could compete with that.  I digress.
If we stay in a potential BIG Valley conference - we do need to kick it up a notch.  It would be tougher - not sure we would be a cellar dweller.
Regarding Larry, he did help raise a half million for a scholarship fund.  Not sure how it happened, but if I recall, some of his old NBA teammates helped to reach the goal.  Maybe it was a bunch of alumni donating?  Not sure...  you probably know more about that than I.
Don't give up on Belmont - that quote was from 3 weeks ago but just published yesterday.  Even if Belmont stays in the OVC - there are other schools to attack for the MVC or Big Valley.  I just hope the MVC leaders can make it happen - that's the question, huh.
How many MVC teams have been in the NCAA D1 basketball championship?


----------



## BrokerZ

goindystate said:


> maybe not counting on Belmont
> 
> http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/2017/04/15/belmont-switching-conferences-mvc/100382846/



Somebody is going to need to explain to me why Belmont is still our #1 target.  I just don't see it.  They don't move the needle for me at all.  They're a basketball team with zero fan support in a media market that doesn't even care about Vanderbilt, who's success is largely reliant upon it's head coach who's in his mid-60's. I don't see any more upside than with Loyola when they came into the league other than Belmont has had recent NCAA tournament appearances, but zero success.  I'm just not seeing the long term potential for them; rather, I see them taking a step back in the not-so-distant future.

They've been to the tournament 7 times and are 0-7, and only in one of those games were they remotely competitive.  If all we're after are recent NCAA tournament appearances...great...they fit the bill.  What will that look like for them once they're in the MVC?

I'm fine with Murray State because they are another public institution who plays football and are close to us financially, have a decent fan-base, history of some basketball success, produced top-tier coaches, etc.  Belmont...not so much.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Somebody is going to need to explain to me why Belmont is still our #1 target.  I just don't see it.  They don't move the needle for me at all.  They're a basketball team with zero fan support in a media market that doesn't even care about Vanderbilt, who's success is largely reliant upon it's head coach who's in his mid-60's. I don't see any more upside than with Loyola when they came into the league other than Belmont has had recent NCAA tournament appearances, but zero success.  I'm just not seeing the long term potential for them; rather, I see them taking a step back in the not-so-distant future.
> 
> They've been to the tournament 7 times and are 0-7, and only in one of those games were they remotely competitive.  If all we're after are recent NCAA tournament appearances...great...they fit the bill.  What will that look like for them once they're in the MVC?
> 
> I'm fine with Murray State because they are another public institution who plays football and are close to us financially, have a decent fan-base, history of some basketball success, produced top-tier coaches, etc.  Belmont...not so much.


Only thing I can think is they've had success and it is a larger media market. Otherwise, you're 100% correct.

I will say there isn't a single team we can add that elevates the conference or moves the needle nationally. That is why the MVC has to determine what exactly it wants to be and then put mandates in place to make it so. They need to start forcing the hand of members.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Only thing I can think is they've had success and it is a larger media market. Otherwise, you're 100% correct.
> 
> I will say there isn't a single team we can add that elevates the conference or moves the needle nationally. That is why the MVC has to determine what exactly it wants to be and then put mandates in place to make it so. They need to start forcing the hand of members.



I'm with you there.  No replacement(s) will take the place of Wichita State.  There isn't another WSU out there to add, so it's going to be a step back no matter what we do.  The MVC has to decide how it wants to shape the league going forward.

Ken Pomeroy advocates for us adding Belmont based solely on the fact they're usually a top-100 team.  I just wonder what they look like in 5 years once Byrd retires or decides to take his one crack at coaching a P5 school...ala Jim Larranaga.  In the short term Belmont makes a lot of sense, but I am concerned about them for the future.

The same applies to Valpo.  I'm even concerned about them in the short term.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> I'm with you there.  No replacement(s) will take the place of Wichita State.  There isn't another WSU out there to add, so it's going to be a step back no matter what we do.  The MVC has to decide how it wants to shape the league going forward.
> 
> Ken Pomeroy advocates for us adding Belmont based solely on the fact they're usually a top-100 team.  I just wonder what they look like in 5 years once Byrd retires or decides to take his one crack at coaching a P5 school...ala Jim Larranaga.  In the short term Belmont makes a lot of sense, but I am concerned about them for the future.
> 
> The same applies to Valpo.  I'm even concerned about them in the short term.


Additionally, another reason Belmont stays put and why it makes no sense for them is if the Valley does take Murray State, their path just because infinitely more easier. When you can sell recruits that they will likely go to the NCAA tournament 2-4 times, they're going to continue to win head-to-head battles with MVC teams just like they have been doing.


----------



## DyedBlue

I don't think ISU could gain membership in the A10 nor would it be a good idea overall due to the travel, but I am a bit mystified by the feeling we would get hammered in the A10.   There are good teams, but not every team is elite;  it really just boils down to playing better every night out.   in 2015 the A10 averaged 4,941 fans/game while the Valley averaged 5,210.   For its conference Tourney, the A10 is so dispersed, it has trouble drawing fans to any kind of central site and averaged 7,545 fans/session while the MVC averaged 10,004.

But I have enjoyed reading most of this thread so keep up the good work.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Hop on the way back machine and if we had Creighton and the Shocks, and then lobbied Butler, Dayton, SLU, XU, & Belmont (when they should have) and we ended with 14 - now that would be a conference.  But we are where we are - crap....   The MVC either gets Belmont, Murray, Dayton, & SLU or does a conference merger....  Heck I bet IUPUI and IPFW are asking to talk too - they are singing Steve Perry's hit.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

DyedBlue said:


> I don't think ISU could gain membership in the A10 nor would it be a good idea overall due to the travel, but I am a bit mystified by the feeling we would get hammered in the A10.   There are good teams, but not every team is elite;  it really just boils down to playing better every night out.   in 2015 the A10 averaged 4,941 fans/game while the Valley averaged 5,210.   For its conference Tourney, the A10 is so dispersed, it has trouble drawing fans to any kind of central site and averaged 7,545 fans/session while the MVC averaged 10,004.
> 
> But I have enjoyed reading most of this thread so keep up the good work.


If you do a deep dive analysis of scheduling and results, our RPI/SOS and Top 50 wins would all be at the very bottom of the A10. Some of that is baked in because of their top teams, but we've had our asses handed to us against Wichita State and Creighton and about even with the remainder of the decent teams in the Valley. Most of them would fall at 8th or worse in the A10 by the same metrics. Could we have some equalization based on better recruiting if we were in the A10? Sure, but we'd have a 3-4 year period before our team matched up with a majority of the rosters, even their bottom feeders. 

Attendance is a non factor in the equation.


----------



## xfactor9600

I just see no way Dayton or SLU leaves the A-10 for the MVC. The emphasis those schools being in the A-10, was to increase their exposure on the East Coast to students/parents who could better afford to pay their private school tuition. I don't see that mandate from their respective Board's changing. Jason is right. What does the MVC want to be going forward? Perhaps an even deeper question is, what does Indiana State wish to be going forward? What does the student body look like in the next 20-25 years? Where do they come from (State, Midwest, and Nationally)? Once that is clearly defined, some of theses questions begin to answer themselves.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

xfactor9600 said:


> I just see no way Dayton or SLU leaves the A-10 for the MVC. The emphasis those schools being in the A-10, was to increase their exposure on the East Coast to students/parents who could better afford to pay their private school tuition. I don't see that mandate from their respective Board's changing. Jason is right. What does the MVC want to be going forward? Perhaps an even deeper question is, what does Indiana State wish to be going forward? What does the student body look like in the next 20-25 years? Where do they come from (State, Midwest, and Nationally)? Once that is clearly defined, some of theses questions begin to answer themselves.


Thanks for coming with a rational viewpoint on the situation. The problem with the Valley is it's fragmented membership and I just don't think it is something that can be overcome. 

You've got publics, you've got privates. You've got schools that sponsor football and those that don't. You have schools with very small enrollments (Evansville at 2500) and one with 10x that number in Missouri State. Then you have schools in small towns and media markets and some in large, large markets. There is no way, as the conference is currently constructed membership wise, to have any sort of unified vision. We're quick to dunk Doug Elgin and make him look a moron, but he's basically Roger Goddell Light -- he's simply a puppet for the membership's Presidents and, to a lesser extent, ADs.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Thanks for coming with a rational viewpoint on the situation. The problem with the Valley is it's fragmented membership and I just don't think it is something that can be overcome.
> 
> You've got publics, you've got privates. You've got schools that sponsor football and those that don't. You have schools with very small enrollments (Evansville at 2500) and one with 10x that number in Missouri State. Then you have schools in small towns and media markets and some in large, large markets. There is no way, as the conference is currently constructed membership wise, to have any sort of unified vision. We're quick to dunk Doug Elgin and make him look a moron, but he's basically Roger Goddell Light -- he's simply a puppet for the membership's Presidents and, to a lesser extent, ADs.



Completely agree.  Elgin can't turn the titanic or work to create some holistically new power-mid-major conference when there are 9 cooks in the kitchen.  Everyone has individual needs and issues.

Putting Indiana State's individual needs/issues aside, for the MVC conference relevancy only I think we need to look to expand West.  Going east and trying to convince schools to join our conference seems like fools errand.  Teams like New Mexico State, Grand Canyon, etc. are potentially the next Wichita State's.  That's not necessarily what's right for Indiana State, but in terms of a new vision for the MVC...I think that makes the most sense.  Realistically that won't happen, though.


----------



## TreeTop

Beginning to wonder why we wouldn't just move over to the Horizon.

We'd probably dominate, or at least be very strong in a number of sports including baseball and track/field/cross country?

Basketball, we'd probably still be middle of the road...and sometimes very good.

I would just miss the ESPN3 deal.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

TreeTop said:


> Beginning to wonder why we wouldn't just move over to the Horizon.
> 
> We'd probably dominate, or at least be very strong in a number of sports including baseball and track/field/cross country?
> 
> Basketball, we'd probably still be middle of the road...and sometimes very good.
> 
> I would just miss the ESPN3 deal.


Horizon would have a lot of the same issues with non-football schools. You either stick with the MVC/MVFC combo or move to the OVC. Those are the only two realistic options for Indiana State IMO.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Jason Svoboda said:


> Thanks for coming with a rational viewpoint on the situation. The problem with the Valley is it's fragmented membership and I just don't think it is something that can be overcome.
> 
> You've got publics, you've got privates. You've got schools that sponsor football and those that don't. You have schools with very small enrollments (Evansville at 2500) and one with 10x that number in Missouri State. Then you have schools in small towns and media markets and some in large, large markets. There is no way, as the conference is currently constructed membership wise, to have any sort of unified vision. We're quick to dunk Doug Elgin and make him look a moron, but he's basically Roger Goddell Light -- he's simply a puppet for the membership's Presidents and, to a lesser extent, ADs.



You just described the Summit, A10, OVC, & Horizon - some in less degree and some in more degree.   The issues of the MVC are not that rare...  They are typical.  Some schools have football and some don't, some schools are big and some are not, some are public and some are private...  they all have obstacles to overcome...  unless there are major changes it will remain the same.  Moving to the OVC would not change things much other than the fact that they are weaker athletically and academically.  If ISU makes a move - should they go down to the OVC?
Somebody has the last 20 year MVC all sports standings...  How do we fall in that stat?  That would be interesting.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

southernindianaballer said:


> You just described the Summit, A10, OVC, & Horizon - some in less degree and some in more degree.   The issues of the MVC are not that rare...  They are typical.  Some schools have football and some don't, some schools are big and some are not, some are public and some are private...  they all have obstacles to overcome...  unless there are major changes it will remain the same.  Moving to the OVC would not change things much other than the fact that they are weaker athletically and academically.  If ISU makes a move - should they go down to the OVC?
> Somebody has the last 20 year MVC all sports standings...  How do we fall in that stat?  That would be interesting.


I'll let you do the research and come back to me on why our (MVC/MVFC) situation is different.


----------



## niklz62

I wouldnt mind the OVC but doesnt that still cause some FB/non-FB problems?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

niklz62 said:


> I wouldnt mind the OVC but doesnt that still cause some FB/non-FB problems?


Such as?


----------



## niklz62

Jason Svoboda said:


> Such as?



my mistake, i thought they had more bball only schools.  i guess its just Belmont and SIUE with Morehead playing in the pioneer


----------



## xfactor9600

The A-10 has 7 Schools (of 14) that have football. Only one (1) UMASS is in FBS. The rest are FCS or lower. I suppose ISU could make some sense as a travel partner with Dayton and SLU. Without looking at the numbers (which Jason) has posted elsewhere, I'd be willing to bet ISU's current spending would put in in the bottom 4 of the league for basketball. I'm not sure how the League Office views Indiana State either. But there is a little bit of tv money involved if I remember correctly.

From a competitive standpoint, there are some good programs (Dayton, VCU), and some poor ones (Fordham for example). Fordham's gym (which I have been to see a game) makes the Hulman Center (with no renovations) look like a Palace.

I can't speak to the A-10 Football programs.


----------



## 4Q_iu

xfactor9600 said:


> The A-10 has 7 Schools (of 14) that have football. Only one (1) UMASS is in FBS. The rest are FCS or lower. I suppose ISU could make some sense as a travel partner with Dayton and SLU. Without looking at the numbers (which Jason) has posted elsewhere, I'd be willing to bet ISU's current spending would put in in the bottom 4 of the league for basketball. I'm not sure how the League Office views Indiana State either. But there is a little bit of tv money involved if I remember correctly.
> 
> From a competitive standpoint, there are some good programs (Dayton, VCU), and some poor ones (Fordham for example). Fordham's gym (which I have been to see a game) makes the Hulman Center (with no renovations) look like a Palace.
> 
> I can't speak to the A-10 Football programs.



correct, UMass plays FBS as an independent -- i wouldn't be shocked if they returned to FCS play; they don't draw well enough to justify the additional scholarships, despite their wealth...   I'd imagine they'd easily fit into the Colonial Football League (CAA Football); they were members as recent as 2011...


agree the Fordham gym isn't a palace but it is a gem...   sadly, it (undoubtedly) hurts their recruiting efforts...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

xfactor9600 said:


> The A-10 has 7 Schools (of 14) that have football. Only one (1) UMASS is in FBS. The rest are FCS or lower. I suppose ISU could make some sense as a travel partner with Dayton and SLU. Without looking at the numbers (which Jason) has posted elsewhere, I'd be willing to bet ISU's current spending would put in in the bottom 4 of the league for basketball. I'm not sure how the League Office views Indiana State either. But there is a little bit of tv money involved if I remember correctly.
> 
> From a competitive standpoint, there are some good programs (Dayton, VCU), and some poor ones (Fordham for example). Fordham's gym (which I have been to see a game) makes the Hulman Center (with no renovations) look like a Palace.
> 
> I can't speak to the A-10 Football programs.


We'd be at the bottom in hoops spending. We're at the bottom in the Valley. Keep in mind that we've influenced MVFC membership in the past by limiting travel to the Dakotas which is why we've got UNI/SDSU/NDSU on the road once per year so we're extremely cost sensitive when it comes to travel costs. The A10 would never be a good fit for us.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Getting back to the Valley, there are a couple scenarios

1) Expand for the best hoops teams geography be damned - In this scenario, you could see the Valley go after teams like Grand Canyon and New Mexico State. Both schools put considerable money into hoops but it would drive travel costs up for Valley teams. 

2) Expand for the best hoops teams within desired geographic footprint - This is basically what has been reported by the media with the Valpo and Murray State potential additions. It's still an unknown with regards to Racer football but I just don't see how the OVC will let them stay and take their breadwinner elsewhere.

3) Don't expand - I honestly don't think this is an option for a couple reasons. First, you lose conference games and it's already tough to schedule as it is. Second, if we've learned anything in the conference realignment process it is that being proactive is the way to go. We've been reactive at every step and have seen the two best programs leave. 

Another scenario that could be mentioned is the MVC absorbing the MVFC and making football an officially sponsored sport. This would give some reassurance to us and the other 4 current MVC members that are interested in the unified conference. I think it should also be broached with Drake and Valpo (if added) to join the MVFC as I didn't realize that Georgetown is running non-scholarship football in the Patriot. This could also protect against NDSU/SDSU/UND/WIU possibly asking the Summit to start football. From what I see from Youngstown State boards, they'd likely stick with us as an affiliate member because of travel considerations. 

If those teams split, that would give you a potential Valley football of us, Illinois State, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Murray State, Youngstown State, Drake and Valpo. If when the Valley expanded to 12, if you could get a football sponsoring school, that would bring the conference back up to 10.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> We'd be at the bottom in hoops spending. We're at the bottom in the Valley. Keep in mind that we've influenced MVFC membership in the past by limiting travel to the Dakotas which is why we've got UNI/SDSU/NDSU on the road once per year so we're extremely cost sensitive when it comes to travel costs. The A10 would never be a good fit for us.




Agree on Atl-10 membership...   we don't "fit" in that league (geography, academics, institutional profile, $$$)


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Getting back to the Valley, there are a couple scenarios
> 
> 1) Expand for the best hoops teams geography be damned - In this scenario, you could see the Valley go after teams like Grand Canyon and New Mexico State. Both schools put considerable money into hoops but it would drive travel costs up for Valley teams.
> 
> 2) Expand for the best hoops teams within desired geographic footprint - This is basically what has been reported by the media with the Valpo and Murray State potential additions. It's still an unknown with regards to Racer football but I just don't see how the OVC will let them stay and take their breadwinner elsewhere.
> 
> 3) Don't expand - I honestly don't think this is an option for a couple reasons. First, you lose conference games and it's already tough to schedule as it is. Second, if we've learned anything in the conference realignment process it is that being proactive is the way to go. We've been reactive at every step and have seen the two best programs leave.
> 
> Another scenario that could be mentioned is the MVC absorbing the MVFC and making football an officially sponsored sport. This would give some reassurance to us and the other 4 current MVC members that are interested in the unified conference. I think it should also be broached with Drake and Valpo (if added) to join the MVFC as I didn't realize that Georgetown is running non-scholarship football in the Patriot. This could also protect against NDSU/SDSU/UND/WIU possibly asking the Summit to start football. From what I see from Youngstown State boards, they'd likely stick with us as an affiliate member because of travel considerations.
> 
> If those teams split, that would give you a potential Valley football of us, Illinois State, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Murray State, Youngstown State, Drake and Valpo. If when the Valley expanded to 12, if you could get a football sponsoring school, that would bring the conference back up to 10.



I agree with your 3 options.  #1 is probably best for the Valley as a whole, but not so good for ISU.  #2 is the best for ISU but is not necessarily the best move for the conference as a whole in the long term.  #3 is likely to happen, and that's scary.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Getting back to the Valley, there are a couple scenarios
> 
> 1) Expand for the best hoops teams geography be damned - In this scenario, you could see the Valley go after teams like Grand Canyon and New Mexico State. Both schools put considerable money into hoops but it would drive travel costs up for Valley teams.
> 
> 2) Expand for the best hoops teams within desired geographic footprint - This is basically what has been reported by the media with the Valpo and Murray State potential additions. It's still an unknown with regards to Racer football but I just don't see how the OVC will let them stay and take their breadwinner elsewhere.
> 
> 3) Don't expand - I honestly don't think this is an option for a couple reasons. First, you lose conference games and it's already tough to schedule as it is. Second, if we've learned anything in the conference realignment process it is that being proactive is the way to go. We've been reactive at every step and have seen the two best programs leave.
> 
> Another scenario that could be mentioned is the MVC absorbing the MVFC and making football an officially sponsored sport. This would give some reassurance to us and the other 4 current MVC members that are interested in the unified conference. I think it should also be broached with Drake and Valpo (if added) to join the MVFC as I didn't realize that Georgetown is running non-scholarship football in the Patriot. This could also protect against NDSU/SDSU/UND/WIU possibly asking the Summit to start football. From what I see from Youngstown State boards, they'd likely stick with us as an affiliate member because of travel considerations.
> 
> If those teams split, that would give you a potential Valley football of us, Illinois State, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Murray State, Youngstown State, Drake and Valpo. If when the Valley expanded to 12, if you could get a football sponsoring school, that would bring the conference back up to 10.





I've no problem with adding Grand Canyon and the return of New  Mexico State AS LONG AS the Valley and the NCAA support travel expenses.

the  Valley and MVFC merger makes a lot of sense; the Valley could still  invite Valpo in that scenario to round out the number to 14 (Youngstown  not joining in this scenario)...


Georgetown has never been  interested in scholie football; doubt they'd draw any in-person support  with the turtles, neutered gobblers and apathetic adventurers in the  region... plus the nfl team.

at one time, div i schools could  have div i mbb, wbb programs and non-div i football.   then enough peers  of georgetown (with scholie football) complained to the ncaa about $$$  inequalities.

the ncaa in a 'brilliant' move required all schools  in div I mbb to have div I football...  And then allowed the formation  of div i non-scholie football ... hence the Pioneer Football League.     the patriot had hoped to follow the ivy league example and have zero  athletic scholies... the plan didn't work; too many of the schools,  could simply not recruit without the scholies...


----------



## southernindianaballer

I would be ok with #2...  People are wondering why the MVC expansion keeps pointing to Belmont...  Dunno.... But, Belmont is the only private in the OVC and one of a few who don't have a football program.  Belmont is a highly respected university.  Those things kinda make it stand out like a sore thumb in the OVC, although they do have geography going for them.
Frankly, one can see the MVC with issues, problems, and differences.... or one can see the MVC as a pretty good opportunity.... With Belmont & Valpo - you put them in a room with the MVC privates and you have immediate harmony...  good schools, similar size, no football, etc.
With Murray, you put them in a room with MVC publics and you have harmony...
This is the value of the MVC and what makes them strong and different.  Good privates and good publics living together in a conference.
Taking another step - add SLU and Dayton in the room with privates - instant harmony and Dayton may consider moving to scholarship FCS football in the MVC.  I mean really - Loyola, Bradley, UE, Drake are what many consider top private educational institutions...  when you add a few ingredients such as Belmont, SLU, Valpo, and Dayton you have harmony and power - the top privates in the Midwest in one conference.  You add Murray and you have the top mid major publics in the country right here in the MVC.
The MVC issues can be seen as a strength if played and sold correctly.  Play the cards right MVC.  Differences can be strengths.
Also, I wouldn't mind the MVC looking at UALR.
Man... I just can't believe SLU, Dayton, and Belmont wouldn't want to be in a relationship with the MVC privates....  Loyola by God.
Same for Murray with the MVC publics....


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> I agree with your 3 options.  #1 is probably best for the Valley as a whole, but not so good for ISU.  #2 is the best for ISU but is not necessarily the best move for the conference as a whole in the long term.  #3 is likely to happen, and that's scary.


That's exactly the rub, too. That is why this conference, as membership currently sits, will always be in flux.  

If you read MVCFans, the fans of the private schools want option #1 because they don't have the restrictions that sponsoring football puts on the table. I totally get that viewpoint from them because they don't give a shit about the MVFC. You do get a smattering of people from the UNI or Illinois State group also supporting this but most of them have their heads buried into the sand when you start talking finances. There response is always find the money. Sorry, it just doesn't work like that. 

Most of the conference is cash poor and heavily leveraged, even some of the privates because their flagship sport doesn't draw enough attendance wise to keep them from dipping their hands into the student's or school's pocket. For us, we have the burden of that in conjunction with sponsoring football and the costs associated with that all the while consistently having the lowest athletics budget. 

If #3 happened, well, that's just a whole different level of stupid.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Special Board of Regions Meeting being held at Murray State tomorrow. I'd say we know what they're discussing in #4. 

http://www.murraystate.edu/Libraries/Board_of_Regents/MediaAnnouncement42117.pdf


----------



## Bally #50

southernindianaballer said:


> I would be ok with #2...  People are wondering why the MVC expansion keeps pointing to Belmont...  Dunno.... But, Belmont is the only private in the OVC and one of a few who don't have a football program.  Belmont is a highly respected university.  Those things kinda make it stand out like a sore thumb in the OVC, although they do have geography going for them.
> Frankly, one can see the MVC with issues, problems, and differences.... or one can see the MVC as a pretty good opportunity.... With Belmont & Valpo - you put them in a room with the MVC privates and you have immediate harmony...  good schools, similar size, no football, etc.
> With Murray, you put them in a room with MVC publics and you have harmony...
> This is the value of the MVC and what makes them strong and different.  Good privates and good publics living together in a conference.
> Taking another step - add SLU and Dayton in the room with privates - instant harmony and Dayton may consider moving to scholarship FCS football in the MVC.  I mean really - Loyola, Bradley, UE, Drake are what many consider top private educational institutions...  when you add a few ingredients such as Belmont, SLU, Valpo, and Dayton you have harmony and power - the top privates in the Midwest in one conference.  You add Murray and you have the top mid major publics in the country right here in the MVC.
> The MVC issues can be seen as a strength if played and sold correctly.  Play the cards right MVC.  Differences can be strengths.
> Also, I wouldn't mind the MVC looking at UALR.
> Man... I just can't believe SLU, Dayton, and Belmont wouldn't want to be in a relationship with the MVC privates....  Loyola by God.
> Same for Murray with the MVC publics....



The A-10 "options" mentioned above SIB, are pure fantasy. The A-10 is clearly on the rise, and the MVC is plunging like the Titanic. With WSU gone, we have only ISUr to carry our banner and the NCAA selection committee didn't respect their record of 25-8 (or our conference) to give them a bid. THREE Atlantic 10 teams went to the tourney this year and they almost had 4. Why would anyone jump ship? It makes no sense. I would love to have the Flyers in the MVC because my family lives there and have season tickets but they outdraw WSU by 2000 a game and play nearly at the same level. Why take the demotion? Like we all are saying, this whole MVC situation is a fricking disaster and unless Elgin can pull one out of his ass, he waited way too long to open his eyes.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bally #47 said:


> The A-10 "options" mentioned above SIB, are pure fantasy. The A-10 is clearly on the rise, and the MVC is plunging like the Titanic. With WSU gone, we have only ISUr to carry our banner and the NCAA selection committee didn't respect their record of 25-8 (or our conference) to give them a bid. THREE Atlantic 10 teams went to the tourney this year and they almost had 4. Why would anyone jump ship? It makes no sense. I would love to have the Flyers in the MVC because my family lives there and have season tickets but they outdraw WSU by 2000 a game and play nearly at the same level. Why take the demotion? Like we all are saying, this whole MVC situation is a fricking disaster and unless Elgin can pull one out of his ass, he waited way too long to open his eyes.




Jump back in time pre-Creighton departure...

which schools should Elgin have chased?

I cannot think of ONE school in our greater geographic footprint that would "FIT" in the Valley; keep in mind that EVERY major conference re-alignment over the past 15 years is DRIVEN by FBS football.

So...   who should the Valley have chased?


----------



## Bally #50

4Q_iu said:


> Jump back in time pre-Creighton departure...
> 
> which schools should Elgin have chased?
> 
> I cannot think of ONE school in our greater geographic footprint that would "FIT" in the Valley; keep in mind that EVERY major conference re-alignment over the past 15 years is DRIVEN by FBS football.
> 
> So...   who should the Valley have chased?



At this point, what schools chased means nothing. What DOES mean something is that Elgin sat on his hands and didn't do anything. We all knew Creighton was thinking of going to the Big East and the Commish should have been already looking for plan B and plan C. Think about this. Now Illinois State and Missouri State are thinking of upgrading to FBS. Then, where does that leave us? 

One thing is for sure, I can hardly wait to attend my 55th homecoming in 2022 with the "big" game between the Sycamores and those always pesky Quincy Hawks.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bally #47 said:


> At this point, what schools chased means nothing. What DOES mean something is that Elgin sat on his hands and didn't do anything. We all knew Creighton was thinking of going to the Big East and the Commish should have been already looking for plan B and plan C. Think about this. Now Illinois State and Missouri State are thinking of upgrading to FBS. Then, where does that leave us?
> 
> One thing is for sure, I can hardly wait to attend my 55th homecoming in 2022 with the "big" game between the Sycamores and those always pesky Quincy Hawks.



So, you can't answer the question.  Or won't...  You'd rather bitch and blame Elgin.   You're overlooking some basic points.

The Valley is / was compromised of FCS and non-football schools.  ALL expansion has been driven by FBS football.  Can u name the LAST FBS football team in the Valley?

Most of the Valley schools have shaky to mediocre $$$, I don't believe ANY chatter about the Deadbirds or MSU moving to FBS, even if they sell their souls and make the leap, they will not be successful, it'll be the same as two more MAC schools​.

So, again I ask, WHO should the Valley have invited?    Should the Valley have DEMANDED that all members play FBS football.

You not believe it BUT the Valley is playing AGAINST​ bigger players who are using a STACKED and MARKED deck.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Jason Svoboda said:


> Special Board of Regions Meeting being held at Murray State tomorrow. I'd say we know what they're discussing in #4.
> 
> http://www.murraystate.edu/Libraries/Board_of_Regents/MediaAnnouncement42117.pdf


MSU AD said this is to talk about IF they get an offer. Wichita State said the same thing about their meetings I do believe. We'll see, I suppose.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> MSU AD said this is to talk about IF they get an offer. Wichita State said the same thing about their meetings I do believe. We'll see, I suppose.



That's hilarious. I suppose the President was just poking around on MVCfans.com and saw some posts about Murray State getting an invite to join and decided they should talk about it as a possibility? The MVC has already reached out, obviously, and it was time to start th discussions. We may have not formally extended the invite since the current 9 schools haven't voted on it, but MSU knows it's pending.


----------



## Bally #50

4Q_iu said:


> So, you can't answer the question.  Or won't...  You'd rather bitch and blame Elgin.   You're overlooking some basic points.
> 
> The Valley is / was compromised of FCS and non-football schools.  ALL expansion has been driven by FBS football.  Can u name the LAST FBS football team in the Valley?
> 
> Most of the Valley schools have shaky to mediocre $$$, I don't believe ANY chatter about the Deadbirds or MSU moving to FBS, even if they sell their souls and make the leap, they will not be successful, it'll be the same as two more MAC schools​.
> 
> So, again I ask, WHO should the Valley have invited?    Should the Valley have DEMANDED that all members play FBS football.
> 
> You not believe it BUT the Valley is playing AGAINST​ bigger players who are using a STACKED and MARKED deck.




4Q, I like you man, but sometimes you drive me crazy. Bottom line, we should have been merging with the OVC, Horizon, Pioneer, expanding the MVC, whatever....who gives a crap who -- but doing absolutely nothing is NOT acceptable. Starting to do something NOW is going to be fruitless. My point is, and always has been,  Sitting on your ass and doing nothing could spell disaster and it appears it has. I am not proposing playing in a mixed FCS-FBS league, that would be stupid. Pride members have come up with a dozen ideas as to what the MVC should do, most won't work but a few might, but unless they started working two years ago, were screwed. None of this stuff is going to happen overnight, for God's sake. If you are a friend of Elgin, I am sorry. I have never met the man and never will...but he has been worthless as far as I am concerned. PERIOD. You're the guy that always says, spend less money, athletics is a waste, drop football, drop bowling whatever. The MVC has done well for ISU only when we had multiple schools in the dance and reaped huge $$ for their successes. As we have become a below average mid-major, that number has dwindled away. Football has us travelling all over the place and with NO RIVALRIES other than ISUr. Find someone who we can have as a rival and quit paying wasted money to play conference teams we don't care about. Put something together in the midwest in ALL sports that works, at any level. If that means joining the OVC, then do it. If that means do what Dayton, Valpo and Butler have done-- do it. Quit asking me who I would ask? Just go back and read my threads. I have said it a half dozen times.


----------



## Sycamore Proud

It is easy to blame Elgin for the plight of The Valley.  Many here, myself incuded, have done just that.  But as I see it, he is doing what the Presidents and Athletic Directors are allowing him to do.  If they like what he is doing, it is their fault for allowing it.  If he is not fulfilling his responsible as defined by the school officials whyis he still on the payroll?  Am I missing something here?  If so, please explain.


----------



## Bally #50

Can't fault that reasoning, SP. Blame whomever you want, someone's missing the boat.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> That's hilarious. I suppose the President was just poking around on MVCfans.com and saw some posts about Murray State getting an invite to join and decided they should talk about it as a possibility? The MVC has already reached out, obviously, and it was time to start th discussions. We may have not formally extended the invite since the current 9 schools haven't voted on it, but MSU knows it's pending.


LOL... right. He had absolutely no reason to mention the MVC but chose to do so. That was a Kip move if I've ever saw one.


----------



## niklz62

are we sure that all the mvc has done was sit on it's hands and do nothing never thinking of what could happen if someone wanted to leave the conference?  is it possible that any talk to potential replacements hasnt gone anywhere?


----------



## Westbadenboy

Maybe I'm missing something here and I completely agree we and the MVC are in a tough situation now .............BUT what I don't see is what Elgin or the MVC could have done differently a few years ago ? ? ?
ST Louis and Dayton  etc etc  -- the kind of schools we'd all like to see join the MVC weren't going anywhere back then (as they aren't now).  Most if not all the options we have now for additions (Murray State, Valpo, etc) might have been available then -- well, they still are.
3 -4 years ago there were no great schools looking to jump into an expanded MVC --- none now either.  That's why we ended up with a poor choice in Loyola .........there were only "poor" choices available.  Still are only poor ones.  Were only poor ones 2 - 3 years BEFORE Creighton left.
Our choices if we wanted to leave the MVC are only poor ones -- were only poor ones 5 years ago .............nothings changed !
So all of you who are saying Elgin and the MVC should have done "something" 4 - 6 years ago ............tell us what that SOMETHING is ? ? ? ? ?
Tell me your REALISTIC action you honestly think could have been done by the MVC to avoid this mess .....realistic and actually doable please !


----------



## Westbadenboy

The only thing that could realistically helped ISU with all of this would have been 7000 -- 8000 folks in Hulman Center consistently and another 10,000 -- 12,000 at the stadium for home games.
We might have looked like an attractive candidate for a new Midwest conference with a mix of MVC schools and MAC schools (who realize FBS football is joke for them).
Guess what ---- paragraph #1 above is a fantasy .... never happened.
So see my previous post !
Describe to me accurately and realistically what you think should have happened 5 - 7 years ago ? ? ? ?

:annoyed:


----------



## Jason Svoboda

niklz62 said:


> are we sure that all the mvc has done was sit on it's hands and do nothing never thinking of what could happen if someone wanted to leave the conference?  is it possible that any talk to potential replacements hasnt gone anywhere?


No, of course they haven't. I think we'd all be really naive to think that the Valley membership hasn't talked about it's vision, it's future, expansion and potential replacements at every annual meeting as well as when Creighton alerted them they were leaving. As fans, we unfairly lump no activity with inactivity or indecision because, well, we're fans, we're biased and we get jealous at what other conferences have done and have high expectations for our own. We want action. 

I'll keep pointing back to this, but I think the inactivity has to due with the drastic differences among membership. I'd really like to see a transcript of one of those meetings to see how each school views itself within membership, what it wants the Valley to be, and what they're looking for in potential replacement candidates. That would be juicy reading material.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here and I completely agree we and the MVC are in a tough situation now .............BUT what I don't see is what Elgin or the MVC could have done differently a few years ago ? ? ?
> ST Louis and Dayton  etc etc  -- the kind of schools we'd all like to see join the MVC weren't going anywhere back then (as they aren't now).  Most if not all the options we have now for additions (Murray State, Valpo, etc) might have been available then -- well, they still are.
> 3 -4 years ago there were no great schools looking to jump into an expanded MVC --- none now either.  That's why we ended up with a poor choice in Loyola .........there were only "poor" choices available.  Still are only poor ones.  Were only poor ones 2 - 3 years BEFORE Creighton left.
> Our choices if we wanted to leave the MVC are only poor ones -- were only poor ones 5 years ago .............nothings changed !
> So all of you who are saying Elgin and the MVC should have done "something" 4 - 6 years ago ............tell us what that SOMETHING is ? ? ? ? ?
> Tell me your REALISTIC action you honestly think could have been done by the MVC to avoid this mess .....realistic and actually doable please !


There was likely nothing that could have been done, but you would have liked to see Elgin publicly try to woo SLU, Dayton, Xavier and Butler into the conference. Would any of those teams have joined? Probably not. Would Creighton and Wichita have left if by some miracle they did join? Probably not. 

I think the bottom line is many Valley fans would have felt a little better knowing the Valley had grand visions for expansion, they offered and were told no. That said, we'd never have went to the NCAA tournament in 2011 if that scenario works out. 



Westbadenboy said:


> The only thing that could realistically helped ISU with all of this would have been 7000 -- 8000 folks in Hulman Center consistently and another 10,000 -- 12,000 at the stadium for home games.
> We might have looked like an attractive candidate for a new Midwest conference with a mix of MVC schools and MAC schools (who realize FBS football is joke for them).
> Guess what ---- paragraph #1 above is a fantasy .... never happened.
> So see my previous post !
> Describe to me accurately and realistically what you think should have happened 5 - 7 years ago ? ? ? ?
> 
> :annoyed:


We're not going to average 8000 fans... you've really got to quit with that fantasy. I've posted college hoops attendance over and over and over and you still ignore the math of it. We were in the Top 100 NCAA attendance wise with good teams loaded with Wabash Valley kids and couldn't average 6000. Only 60 teams in Division 1 averaged 8000 fans or more and they are the blue bloods, power conference schools, schools with large fan bases, large metro areas or huge student bodies. We've got none of that. Here is the average NCAA attendance since 2010:

2010 - 5038
2011 - 5025
2012 - 4994
2013 - 4921
2014 - 4817
2015 - 4754
2016 - 4744 

Dropping year over year over year. The Valley's drop looks even most drastic post Creighton left and will fall through the floor when Wichita State's numbers are gone next year. Either your a fan of the school and team or you're not... I'm done making excuses for the so called fans that don't show up.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bally #47 said:


> 4Q, I like you man, but sometimes you drive me crazy. Bottom line, we should have been merging with the OVC, Horizon, Pioneer, expanding the MVC, whatever....who gives a crap who -- but doing absolutely nothing is NOT acceptable. Starting to do something NOW is going to be fruitless. My point is, and always has been,  Sitting on your ass and doing nothing could spell disaster and it appears it has. I am not proposing playing in a mixed FCS-FBS league, that would be stupid. Pride members have come up with a dozen ideas as to what the MVC should do, most won't work but a few might, but unless they started working two years ago, were screwed. None of this stuff is going to happen overnight, for God's sake. If you are a friend of Elgin, I am sorry. I have never met the man and never will...but he has been worthless as far as I am concerned. PERIOD. You're the guy that always says, spend less money, athletics is a waste, drop football, drop bowling whatever. The MVC has done well for ISU only when we had multiple schools in the dance and reaped huge $$ for their successes. As we have become a below average mid-major, that number has dwindled away. Football has us travelling all over the place and with NO RIVALRIES other than ISUr. Find someone who we can have as a rival and quit paying wasted money to play conference teams we don't care about. Put something together in the midwest in ALL sports that works, at any level. If that means joining the OVC, then do it. If that means do what Dayton, Valpo and Butler have done-- do it. Quit asking me who I would ask? Just go back and read my threads. I have said it a half dozen times.




Over the last couple of days, I've looked at every school in the OVC, Horizon and Summit AND some in the Atlantic-10.  The Pioneer is NOT an option as it's a football only conference who members are full members in some dispersed conferences...   That being said; I don't know WHAT the Valley could have done to improve itself BECAUSE the 'better' schools in our geographic area (Midwest) were NEVER going to join the Valley because everyone of them would have viewed it as a step backwards.

The problem lies in the current Valley schools; virtually everyone is a "tweener" school, none of the Valley public schools are The Flagship Public school in their respective state, not one.  None of the private members are a top NATIONAL private university.

So, Elgin (at the direction of the Univ Presidents/Chancellors/Athl Directors) has done the best he can GIVEN what he can do; again, the Valley is playing against  bigger players and against a stacked deck.

There are NO schools in the OVC, Horizon or Summit that will dramatically improve the Valley.   AND if the Valley were to merge with either/any; the geographic footprint grows without accompanying revenue.


Do I WANT ISU to shut the football program down?  No.

Will I accept it IF it comes to that because to $$$ issues?  Yes.

I am a pragmatist, I am a realist.  We (ISU) simply do NOT have the $$ (currently) to do what some, many WANT us to do.

So, how do you get the $$?  Hell, we're don't have the same problems as other schools -- shoot, look at Rice and Tulane.  Both are wealthy schools, beautiful campuses, sit in rich recruiting areas yet annually, their MBB and fball teams are mediocre to bad.   If we had those assets and those results, we'd have plenty to bitch about.

Pre-Creighton move, post-Wichita city departure -- there are ZERO schools with their MBB success at hat would have joined the Valley.   I doubt creighton would have accepted any enticements to stay, nor Wichita city


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Blow-by-blow from the Murray State meeting today. Go check out the Tweets:

https://twitter.com/dreamarlowe85


----------



## JamesHat

You can watch the meeting here:






Athletic discussion starts around the 1hr 38min mark, wraps at 2hr 03min.


----------



## Bally #50

It is the job description of a commissioner to make his conference the best it can be. Bottom line, name one thing that the conference has done to improve itself since he became commissioner? Yes, I do acknowledge that he is "guided" by AD's and Presidents, but if all he did was follow the wishes of those people, a fricking monkey could do the job. 

Our RPI has gone from as high as 5 to a consensus 12 with a couple organizations even lower. Our two best "franchises" have left the conference in two years and as far as I have seen, without penalties. Attendance in basketball has dropped steadily over the past 10 years (i'll concede it has in all basketball), the addition of Loyola last year was seen generally as a bad move with the only positive that the MVC gained, was a large, metro area. Our "bargaining position" for expansion has gone from reasonably good to what we are dealing with today, 9 schools with little direction. It would seem that some of you are actually defending the Commish and for what reason, is beyond me. Most of you screamed loudly when Loyola was added and you certainly can't be happy that our two best teams have bailed. So as we always say, "It is what it is." If that is what you are looking for, fine. My confidence is in Sherard and I can only hope he has something up his sleeve. My guess is that he does. We can make list of potential MVC teams, or pick up 2-3 schools and expand to a more regional conference with two divisions, or we can downgrade to the OVC. Clink knows more than I do and for that matter, more than most of us on this board. I say MOST because I am sure Bankshot thinks he knows more than everyone.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Blow-by-blow from the Murray State meeting today. Go check out the Tweets:
> 
> https://twitter.com/dreamarlowe85



To summazrize: if the MVC invites Murray State to join, they'll accept.


----------



## Westbadenboy

Jason ---- read my post carefully ...........NEVER said we could average 8000 --- merely pointed out that if we had we would be attractive to other schools if we wanted to go elsewhere or form a new conference.  Therefore we are not a very attractive choice for others looking to make something happen here in the Midwest.
Also you really wanted Elgin to PUBLICALLY woo folks like Butler or St Louis ..............are you kidding me ? ? ?  The sophomore nerd does not walk up to Homecoming Queen in the cafeteria in front of hundreds of kids and ask her to the Prom ...........if he did embarrassment is sure to follow (as it would have for the MVC if Elgin had done what you suggest).  Had that happened Creighton and Wichita would likely have bolted in a matter of days out of sheer embarrassment. 
Bally -- we were in a "reasonably good" position a few years ago -- what the hell does that mean ?  Who would have jumped at the chance to join the MVC a few years ago that we would like to see now ? ? ?  Dayton ....Ha !   St Louis .....Ha !  Ha!    Butler .....Ha !  Ha !  Ha !


----------



## Westbadenboy

*Sooooooooooo ? ? ? ?>*

Bunch of you sitting there typing your accusations that Elgin should have done "something" several years ago .....should have been prepared ..........

So I challenged you all to suggest something realistic, doable, and workable that could have been done a few years ago ? ? ?

No takers ? ? ?

Give us your 10 -- 12 team MVC you think could have been formed ?  (with or without Creighton/WSU)
Or give us your new "Midwest Conference" that you think could actually have come together ?

Be REALISTIC !   Come on all you complainers ...... what do you really think could have been done .....I'm waiting ..........
:annoyed:


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Westbadenboy said:


> Jason ---- read my post carefully ...........NEVER said we could average 8000 --- merely pointed out that if we had we would be attractive to other schools if we wanted to go elsewhere or form a new conference.  Therefore we are not a very attractive choice for others looking to make something happen here in the Midwest.
> Also you really wanted Elgin to PUBLICALLY woo folks like Butler or St Louis ..............are you kidding me ? ? ?  The sophomore nerd does not walk up to Homecoming Queen in the cafeteria in front of hundreds of kids and ask her to the Prom ...........if he did embarrassment is sure to follow (as it would have for the MVC if Elgin had done what you suggest).  Had that happened Creighton and Wichita would likely have bolted in a matter of days out of sheer embarrassment.
> Bally -- we were in a "reasonably good" position a few years ago -- what the hell does that mean ?  Who would have jumped at the chance to join the MVC a few years ago that we would like to see now ? ? ?  Dayton ....Ha !   St Louis .....Ha !  Ha!    Butler .....Ha !  Ha !  Ha !


Yes, yes you did. 



> "The only thing that could realistically helped ISU with all of this would have been 7000 -- 8000 folks in Hulman Center consistently"



Sounds like an average to me. Additionally, you said 7 years ago. That was prior to Big East split and Wichita State hadn't even taken off yet. Butler was still a doe-eyed program in the Horizon. If you had grand visions, that would have been the time to try. Not now. So you and the lot of folks need to quit mentioning Dayton, Saint Louis and all of these other programs. Point being, as you said, it was crazy 7 years ago and it's a complete lunatic fantasy now.


----------



## Bally #50

Westbadenboy said:


> Jason ---- read my post carefully ...........NEVER said we could average 8000 --- merely pointed out that if we had we would be attractive to other schools if we wanted to go elsewhere or form a new conference.  Therefore we are not a very attractive choice for others looking to make something happen here in the Midwest.
> Also you really wanted Elgin to PUBLICALLY woo folks like Butler or St Louis ..............are you kidding me ? ? ?  The sophomore nerd does not walk up to Homecoming Queen in the cafeteria in front of hundreds of kids and ask her to the Prom ...........if he did embarrassment is sure to follow (as it would have for the MVC if Elgin had done what you suggest).  Had that happened Creighton and Wichita would likely have bolted in a matter of days out of sheer embarrassment.
> Bally -- we were in a "reasonably good" position a few years ago -- what the hell does that mean ?  Who would have jumped at the chance to join the MVC a few years ago that we would like to see now ? ? ?  Dayton ....Ha !   St Louis .....Ha !  Ha!    Butler .....Ha !  Ha !  Ha !



Listen Westbadenboy, I have no idea why you guys are so defensive about Commish Elgin. I can say this, I wish I had people like you guys writing up my annual work evaluations. I'd probably be still working. You folks have cemented in your head that the Commish had nothing to work with, no colleges in similar situations that might not be happy with the conference they are at......therefore it was OK to let his conference RPI drop thru the bucket, lose it's two best schools and so on. Since Loyola was the only one he could find, they became the perfect school for our expansion.

I use the strongly emerging LPGA golf tour as an example. Four years ago, the commissioner was fired rather abruptly. The series had lost 5 tourneys, the prize money was at a 10-year low, it was facing several MAJOR issues that had NEVER be addressed. They went out and found a guy who worked his ass off for them. I can't name the new guy, but I can tell you that they are setting all sorts of attendance records, they hit an all-time record in prize money and there are at least 3 new tourneys this season. IT CAN BE DONE.

As I said multiple times, I don't know the man but if I saw my league taking the plunge that the MVC has taken, I would DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You guys keep saying that's OK, all those teams wouldn't want to join. Think outside the fricking box.

I did NOT say anything about Dayton, St. Louis and Butler either so don't say I did. For the last time, (keep in mind you can go back and read what I wrote when Creighton left. IF WE DO NOTHING WE ARE GOING TO END UP IN DEEP SHIT. That's not a quote but I did say we would be in trouble. I'll let you guys continue to tell me how well Elgin has done and all he could. As I also said earlier,  my hope is that Clink might have an idea or two. I can't imagine he is happy with how the Valley is going. There have been some good ideas presented here over the past three months. Some make sense. The problem is that Mr. Elgin should have been working towards a STRONGER conference 2-3 years ago, not NOW~


----------



## 4Q_iu

Bally #47 said:


> Listen Westbadenboy, I have no idea why you guys are so defensive about Commish Elgin. I can say this, I wish I had people like you guys writing up my annual work evaluations. I'd probably be still working. You folks have cemented in your head that the Commish had nothing to work with, no colleges in similar situations that might not be happy with the conference they are at......therefore it was OK to let his conference RPI drop thru the bucket, lose it's two best schools and so on. Since Loyola was the only one he could find, they became the perfect school for our expansion.
> 
> I use the strongly emerging LPGA golf tour as an example. Four years ago, the commissioner was fired rather abruptly. The series had lost 5 tourneys, the prize money was at a 10-year low, it was facing several MAJOR issues that had NEVER be addressed. They went out and found a guy who worked his ass off for them. I can't name the new guy, but I can tell you that they are setting all sorts of attendance records, they hit an all-time record in prize money and there are at least 3 new tourneys this season. IT CAN BE DONE.
> 
> As I said multiple times, I don't know the man but if I saw my league taking the plunge that the MVC has taken, I would DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You guys keep saying that's OK, all those teams wouldn't want to join. Think outside the fricking box.
> 
> I did NOT say anything about Dayton, St. Louis and Butler either so don't say I did. For the last time, (keep in mind you can go back and read what I wrote when Creighton left. IF WE DO NOTHING WE ARE GOING TO END UP IN DEEP SHIT. That's not a quote but I did say we would be in trouble. I'll let you guys continue to tell me how well Elgin has done and all he could. As I also said earlier,  my hope is that Clink might have an idea or two. I can't imagine he is happy with how the Valley is going. There have been some good ideas presented here over the past three months. Some make sense. The problem is that Mr. Elgin should have been working towards a STRONGER conference 2-3 years ago, not NOW~



Your analogy of the LPGA and the Valley is accurate; despite their "success," the LPGA is still behind the PGA and Sr Tour in $$ and TV audiences.    I'd say thats where the Valley sits, behind the power 5 and "higher" mid-majors


----------



## Bally #50

4Q_iu said:


> Your analogy of the LPGA and the Valley is accurate; despite their "success," the LPGA is still behind the PGA and Sr Tour in $$ and TV audiences.    I'd say thats where the Valley sits, behind the power 5 and "higher" mid-majors



4Q, I actually agree with you!!! Basically, we probably want the same success for the TREES. I simply feel all of you are giving a free ticket to the commish. No big deal to me. We disagree. Let's take a look where we are a year from now. In the meantime, GO RACERS~


----------



## southernindianaballer

As you know I don't buy into this thinking that this is "reality" and the MVC is on a downward spiral that can't be changed.  I never have had a mindset like that.  Really, the MVC leaders should reach out to several schools for evaluation...   Unless they feel as many of you do - then we are destined to be a middle of the pack mid major conference.  The time could be right, never assume it isn't.  Several schools have moved to other conferences and have a few years under them now for full evaluation.  They have time to evaluate the cost and benefits.  I know the cost is a lot to travel to the east coast with low/no-profit sports.
I'm saying it again - it could be time for major change.  Heck - reading what all of you say - that's what is needed but don't think it can happen.  Why not?  Who is trying to induce change?
I'm saying it again...  a Midwest power conference could be created at a greater benefit to those traveling east.  We have Butler, SLU, Dayton, Marquette, DePaul, Belmont, Valpo, UALR, XU who are all non FBS schools in the Midwest.  Yes, they are private and I know some of you don't care for the privates - but they can help to balance a league.  Where does ISU fall in the mix?  At the lower bottom based on history and budget - but again, things are changing... New HC could be a top Midwest venue.  ISU is in the middle of major academic and campus change now - for the better.  I think we all agree the changes in the past 10 years are remarkable.  I even think the bball and football recruiting has picked up - but the proof is in the pudding.
SLU, Butler, Dayton, XU, Marquette, DePaul, Belmont.  There!
BTW - the MVC consistently has better attendance than the A10.  Averages 7-9 nationally.  Don't think the A10 has ever averaged more than the MVC.


----------



## Bally #50

southernindianaballer said:


> As you know I don't buy into this thinking that this is "reality" and the MVC is on a downward spiral that can't be changed.  I never have had a mindset like that.  Really, the MVC leaders should reach out to several schools for evaluation...   Unless they feel as many of you do - then we are destined to be a middle of the pack mid major conference.  The time could be right, never assume it isn't.  Several schools have moved to other conferences and have a few years under them now for full evaluation.  They have time to evaluate the cost and benefits.  I know the cost is a lot to travel to the east coast with low/no-profit sports.
> I'm saying it again - it could be time for major change.  Heck - reading what all of you say - that's what is needed but don't think it can happen.  Why not?  Who is trying to induce change?
> I'm saying it again...  a Midwest power conference could be created at a greater benefit to those traveling east.  We have Butler, SLU, Dayton, Marquette, DePaul, Belmont, Valpo, UALR, XU who are all non FBS schools in the Midwest.  Yes, they are private and I know some of you don't care for the privates - but they can help to balance a league.  Where does ISU fall in the mix?  At the lower bottom based on history and budget - but again, things are changing... New HC could be a top Midwest venue.  ISU is in the middle of major academic and campus change now - for the better.  I think we all agree the changes in the past 10 years are remarkable.  I even think the bball and football recruiting has picked up - but the proof is in the pudding.
> SLU, Butler, Dayton, XU, Marquette, DePaul, Belmont.  There!
> *BTW - the MVC consistently has better attendance than the A10.  Averages 7-9 nationally.  Don't think the A10 has ever averaged more than the MVC.*



I was surprised they were that close, to be honest. The MVC and the A-10 were within a 100 of each other for AVERAGE for the last three seasons.


----------



## Bally #50

Bally #47 said:


> I was surprised they were that close, to be honest. The MVC and the A-10 were within a 100 of each other for AVERAGE for the last three seasons.



Take the Shockers out of that average and that average drops pretty quickly too. Dayton leads the A-10 at just under 13,000 last year.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Bally #47 said:


> Take the Shockers out of that average and that average drops pretty quickly too. Dayton leads the A-10 at just under 13,000 last year.


True - and replace the Shockers with the Racers and it may be a 2/3 drop in comparison of each team.  Conversely, the AAC will see a tick up.


----------



## southernindianaballer

Thinking with a business mindset to acquire and/or merge in order to control a media market and increase revenue via attendance and media deals…  Here is what I think should happen.
Own the Chicago market:  DePaul, Loyola, Valpo, Marquette, ISUbirds.
Own the St. Louis market: SLU, SIUE, SIU
Own the Cinci market:  Dayton, XU
Own Indiana/Indy market:  ISU, UE, Butler, IUPUI & Valpo again.
MVC strong bball team remains:  UNI
New addition:  Murray
ISU stays in the MVFC and keeps evaluating the football situation, but moves forward with a revenue generating basketball conference that provides more appeal.  This is the best market control scenario without FBS schools.  16 teams, two 8 team divisions.  Regional rivals exist to high degree.  We could go 14 teams by leaving out Murray and UNI.  Could even target the Nashville market.
Focus on our definite future since football profitability is questioned by most FCS type schools.  Again, stay in the MVFC.  Of course, with Murray moving to the MVC a wrench exists.
Interesting:  Strength in these cities:  Chicago, Saint Louis, Cinci, Indy metro.
No flights.
3-4 NCAA bid conference?
Would big city schools buy in?
FYI – I know this won’t happen.  LOL


----------



## Bally #50

southernindianaballer said:


> True - and replace the Shockers with the Racers and it may be a 2/3 drop in comparison of each team.  Conversely, the AAC will see a tick up.



See, all of you. We can agree!!! After all, we do love our SYCAMORES. 

♫Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah! 
Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah! 
Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah. 
O Lord, Kum ba yah♫


----------



## SycamoreFan317

Somebody in the MVC has got to have the cajoles to suggest what has been suggested on this board many times before, merge the MVC and MVFC. In my opinon this is what Elgin should have done when Creighton left, but I am sure he does not want to be the cause of his fellow commish losing her job, make her associate commish of MVC. Clinkscales can suggest this to Dr. Bradley who in turn would suggest it to his conference peers. I am in 110% favor of Murray State joining the MVC as long as they also join the MVFC. The thought of Milwaukee joining the MVC is nauseating to me I would definitely take Valpo before them. Indiana State has do what's best for us and a unified conference would be best do we have the guts to bring it up and push for it or are we just along for the ride. How our MVC brethren responds to such request would tell us what our next move should be.


----------



## xfactor9600

*MVC targeting Valpo, Murray State as additions following Wichita State’s departure*



southernindianaballer said:


> As you know I don't buy into this thinking that this is "reality" and the MVC is on a downward spiral that can't be changed.  I never have had a mindset like that.  Really, the MVC leaders should reach out to several schools for evaluation...   Unless they feel as many of you do - then we are destined to be a middle of the pack mid major conference.  The time could be right, never assume it isn't.  Several schools have moved to other conferences and have a few years under them now for full evaluation.  They have time to evaluate the cost and benefits.  I know the cost is a lot to travel to the east coast with low/no-profit sports.
> I'm saying it again - it could be time for major change.  Heck - reading what all of you say - that's what is needed but don't think it can happen.  Why not?  Who is trying to induce change?
> I'm saying it again...  a Midwest power conference could be created at a greater benefit to those traveling east.  We have Butler, SLU, Dayton, Marquette, DePaul, Belmont, Valpo, UALR, XU who are all non FBS schools in the Midwest.  Yes, they are private and I know some of you don't care for the privates - but they can help to balance a league.  Where does ISU fall in the mix?  At the lower bottom based on history and budget - but again, things are changing... New HC could be a top Midwest venue.  ISU is in the middle of major academic and campus change now - for the better.  I think we all agree the changes in the past 10 years are remarkable.  I even think the bball and football recruiting has picked up - but the proof is in the pudding.
> SLU, Butler, Dayton, XU, Marquette, DePaul, Belmont.  There!
> BTW - the MVC consistently has better attendance than the A10.  Averages 7-9 nationally.  Don't think the A10 has ever averaged more than the MVC.



 Xavier, Butler, Dayton, and SLU have made a commitment to draw students from the East Coast (because the thinking is that there are more families out there who can pay higher tuition). I doubt any of those schools have an interest in a Midwest league at this point. Conference affiliation is mostly about sports, but also about student retention and acquisition. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Westbadenboy

Geeezzz ....... as a former high school teacher I am stunned sometimes at the lack of critical reading skills of some of my fellow ISU fans.

One more time ----- Jason did not say ANYTHING about our ability to average 7000 -- 8000 fans .......said IF we had done that we would be attractive to other schools/cpnferences at this point.  Said specifically that never happened (and I think we all agree its very, very unlikely to ever happen).
Did not mean to tie this into any specific number of years in the past .....3 .....7......17 --- don't give a damm.  I was simply saying to all those who keep saying the MVC/Elgin should have been ready for all this and planned for it (3 years .........8 months ago ......or last night for goodness sakes) OK what would YOU complainers have done ? ? ? ? ?
AND I AM NOT defending anyone ! ! !  Not evaluating anyone ! ! !  Simply saying what would you suggest SHOULD have been done ? ? ?

Asked twice for a plan that those of you who think something could and should have been done to be presented.  Basically no response .........
Except for another pie in the sky dream of luring schools like Dayton, St. Lou, Butler, Xavier into a new Midwest Conference that includes ISU.
Would love it ..........we all would !  Ain't never go'in happen .....ever ..............

So again, somebody .......anybody ..........show me (us) a plan that could have been executed a few years ago by the MVC/Elgin that would have been doable, reality based, and would be something we'd love to have seen ............

I'm waiting .............and waiting ..................


----------



## Bally #50

Westbadenboy quote: *Geeezzz ....... as a former high school teacher I am stunned sometimes at the lack of critical reading skills of some of my fellow ISU fans.*

Talk about a lack of critical reading skills? The posters here on SP have said it before, I've said a half a dozen times in the last week or so.........What you have been asking for (constantly), are suggestions on WHO would the MVC go after....... has been spelled out for over two years on here for God's sake go back and read them. It was covered again ad nauseum, a month or so ago and simply -- go back and read them and quit asking for them WBB. It's all there. I am not going to repeat mine because I have basically been saying the same thing for three years on here. We all have posted opinions and some were quite logical, some not, but they have been posted early and often. I refuse to go any further. I think we have have beat the dead dog enough. I'll let you start the Dougie Elgin Fan Club and I will keep my fingers crossed that Clink and Dr. B. have something in mind. The Valley will survive this and it will continue to move backwards unless they do something in NUMBERS. That takes a huge effort and I don't believe it has or will happen. As I said yesterday, let's look where we are in a year and see how much you love Dougie and his fan club then??


----------



## Westbadenboy

I give up ............................................................................................................

...........................................................................................................................

...................................................................


----------



## Bally #50

Westbadenboy said:


> I give up ............................................................................................................
> 
> ...........................................................................................................................
> 
> ...................................................................



♫Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah! 
Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah! 
Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah. 
O Lord, Kum ba yah♫


----------



## 4Q_iu

Todd Golden's piece...

advocating for the Valley to move to 12 teams...

Murray St and Valpo are leading mentions, in passing... Illinois-Chicago, Wisc-Milwaukee, Nebraska-Omaha and Belmont...

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/todd...cle_e20de4a2-27be-11e7-aa9e-4fc1de9d49d8.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Apparently the MVC visited Murray State yesterday, will be at Valpo and is also visiting Milwaukee and Omaha. 

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20170425/mvc-visiting-campuses-of-potential-new-members


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Apparently the MVC visited Murray State yesterday, will be at Valpo and is also visiting Milwaukee and Omaha.
> 
> http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20170425/mvc-visiting-campuses-of-potential-new-members




In looking at those candidates; Valpo brings a full slate of ALL (Men's & Women's) MVC sports; IF the Valley wanted to continue Men's tennis -- Valpo has a team, as it is today, this is the last season for MVC Men's tennis.    Valpo may need  a new home for their men's team; the MAC?

Murray brings 6 men's sports and 9 women's sports...

Omaha only brings 5 men's Valley sports (the same as us, evansville and no. iowa; the maverickettes bring 9 women's sports that are Valley sponsored/hosted/sanctioned...

Mille-Wau-Kee brings 6 men's sports and 8 women's sports...

Murray still plays football (scholie) as does Valpo (non-scholie)... Omaha has div i hockey (18 scholarships), so while its' the same level as football, it IS an additional "expense"

Mille-Wau-Kee doesn't have any sports outside of the horizon today or (potentially) the valley; though their men's swimming & diving team would need a new conference home.. perhaps the MAC with evansville and southern illinois and missouri state (as long as the dogs and cubs still HAVE a men's swimming/diving team...) (and valpo...)


----------



## BankShot

Jason Svoboda said:


> Apparently the MVC visited Murray State yesterday, will be at Valpo and is also visiting Milwaukee and Omaha.
> 
> http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20170425/mvc-visiting-campuses-of-potential-new-members



I can see SSOM & ol' Dave spending a 3-day weekend @ Miller Village once/yr...:blitzed:

https://www.millercoors.com/breweries/miller-brewing-company/tours


----------



## tjbison

Omaha...lol

People forget the elephant in the room with adding them, first one to name it gets a cookie


----------



## treeman

tjbison said:


> Omaha...lol
> 
> People forget the elephant in the room with adding them, first one to name it gets a cookie



I respect the Bison fanbase and understand their desire to be in the MVC. But the Dakotas just do not fit the MVC in more than a couple ways. If the MVC surprises everyone and adds Omaha, then the MVC is in worse shape than I thought. But geography has been the double edged sword for the dakota schools and probably will be for some time. While your "isolation" from the majority of the country helps you out with your fanbase/support (and please don't tell us how you guys have to compete with some D-II, D-III, Minneapolis pro teams, or Minnesota schools (they are in a different freakin state)) but you guys are definitely on a island as far as conference affiliation.


----------



## tjbison

treeman said:


> I respect the Bison fanbase and understand their desire to be in the MVC. But the Dakotas just do not fit the MVC in more than a couple ways. If the MVC surprises everyone and adds Omaha, then the MVC is in worse shape than I thought. But geography has been the double edged sword for the dakota schools and probably will be for some time. While your "isolation" from the majority of the country helps you out with your fanbase/support (and please don't tell us how you guys have to compete with some D-II, D-III, Minneapolis pro teams, or Minnesota schools (they are in a different freakin state)) but you guys are definitely on a island as far as conference affiliation.


meh...I couldn't really care less at this point, we will find our place, but the question about Omaha still stands.

if the MVC is going to keep their "Bus league" then fine but the future is changing.  We will be fine we have support and administrative people that think outside the box which is why our transition from D2 to D1 was so successful.  We heard all the same crap during that time period and before the MVFC



Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## BrokerZ

4Q_iu said:


> Mille-Wau-Kee



-Insert Wayne's World gif here-


----------



## Bluethunder

BrokerZ said:


> -Insert Wayne's World gif here-



Isn't Milwaukee an Indian name?

Yes it is Pete.


----------



## BrokerZ

tjbison said:


> meh...I couldn't really care less at this point



Really? Because it seems like you care very much, which is fine.  

We on this forum have no say in what happens with the MVC.  Nobody here is advocating for UNO.  UNO is a joke of a basketball program and shouldn't sniff the MVC.  Coupled with the fact that they seem like a consolation prize after just losing Creighton a few years ago, color me pissed if they are even on the short list of possibilities.

The Dakota schools make a lot of sense in the same way adding New Mexico State and Grand Canyon make sense.  It works in that it's good for the league's standing in the overall competitive landscape of college basketball, but it doesn't make financial sense for most schools.  Does that piss me off that feasibility of bus routes is an important factor...hell yes.  Not much I can do about it unless that Nigerian Prince relative of mine I just received an email about is actually real.


----------



## tjbison

BrokerZ said:


> Really? Because it seems like you care very much, which is fine.
> 
> We on this forum have no say in what happens with the MVC.  Nobody here is advocating for UNO.  UNO is a joke of a basketball program and shouldn't sniff the MVC.  Coupled with the fact that they seem like a consolation prize after just losing Creighton a few years ago, color me pissed if they are even on the short list of possibilities.
> 
> The Dakota schools make a lot of sense in the same way adding New Mexico State and Grand Canyon make sense.  It works in that it's good for the league's standing in the overall competitive landscape of college basketball, but it doesn't make financial sense for most schools.  Does that piss me off that feasibility of bus routes is an important factor...hell yes.  Not much I can do about it unless that Nigerian Prince relative of mine I just received an email about is actually real.


I like to discuss things, possibilities, futures ect.. would I like to be in an all sports conference with FB foes, yes

will it change anything if we are not, no at least not immediately so it is what it is.

we have a good quality of Basketball in the Summit much better than many realize and getting stronger so again nd i personnaly think its because of NDSU and SDSU forcing thebothers to rise up and compete, I'm fine with whatever happens though..it's fun to discuss with other fan bases than the Kool aid drinkers on a schools home board

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## southernindianaballer

OK – I can officially give up now…  my hope that a Big Midwest conference realignment would happen is over.  If the MVC is speaking with Murray, UWMil, UIC, Valpo, Belmont, and UNO.  LOL  Man….  I should have went with my gut.  LOL
Actually, I can handle UWMil, Murray, UIC, Valpo, and Belmont….  But UNO?
I think UWMil, Valpo, UIC, Loyola, Bradley, and ISU birds gives the MVC a strong presence in the Chicago market.  Makes sense/cents.  If they leave out UNO – that’s 14 teams and a bus drive to most schools for ISU.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> We on this forum have no say in what happens with the MVC.  Nobody here is advocating for UNO.  UNO is a joke of a basketball program and shouldn't sniff the MVC.  Coupled with the fact that they seem like a consolation prize after just losing Creighton a few years ago, color me pissed if they are even on the short list of possibilities.


I just don't get it, either. I have to be missing something, right?


----------



## BankShot

BrokerZ said:


> ...  Not much I can do about it unless that Nigerian Prince relative of mine I just received an email about is actually real.



We must be related, because I get those same E-mails!:wacko:


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> I just don't get it, either. I have to be missing something, right?



I'm just going to chalk it up to the MVC doing it's due diligence and that's all.  UNO is a somewhat up-and-coming program, but they're a hockey-first school and will be forever.  We need schools that promote men's basketball as it's premier sport.


----------



## 4Q_iu

BrokerZ said:


> I'm just going to chalk it up to the MVC doing it's due diligence and that's all.  UNO is a somewhat up-and-coming program, but they're a hockey-first school and will be forever.  We need schools that promote men's basketball as it's premier sport.




agree --- id venture the most attractive thing about UNeb_Omaha IS the Omaha "part", the Valley wants those eyes, media market, $$ etc...   sadly, I'd say Neb-Omaha is #3 (or lower) in the city, metro area and state...


----------



## treeman

I don't liker the Omaha add at all. But one question the MVC might be looking at is----If they can get 6,000 to show up to 18 hockey games, is there a market for a solid fanbase for bball? and maybe someone closer to the situation can answer that question. Is Omaha just a big hockey town? Do they have a great hockey tradition? Do people just go because of the beer (looking at you Creighton)?


----------



## SycamoreFan317

treeman said:


> I don't liker the Omaha add at all. But one question the MVC might be looking at is----If they can get 6,000 to show up to 18 hockey games, is there a market for a solid fanbase for bball? and maybe someone closer to the situation can answer that question. Is Omaha just a big hockey town? Do they have a great hockey tradition? Do people just go because of the beer (looking at you Creighton)?



Omaha is a big hockey town, in addition to UNO they also have the Omaha Lancers of the USHL. Both teams draw extremely well. 
http://www.lancers.com/schedules


----------



## TreeTop

Maybe ISU should drop football and add hockey.

I'm almost serious.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

TreeTop said:


> Maybe ISU should drop football and add hockey.
> 
> I'm almost serious.  I'm kinda serious.



Where would we play? Indy has a USHL team that suspended operations three years ago, averaged about 3500. UNO doesn't fit the MVC. Period.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISU doesn't need to add hockey. C'mon people. 

If ISU were ever in a position to add additional men's sports, there are probably 5-10 of them you'd add before ice hockey.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

Jason Svoboda said:


> ISU doesn't need to add hockey. C'mon people.
> 
> If ISU were ever in a position to add additional men's sports, there are probably 5-10 of them you'd add before ice hockey.



We don't need to drop football either.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreFan317 said:


> We don't need to drop football either.


Provided the program can become even somewhat self sufficient, I agree. Love football and don't want it to go but I'm a realist. If attendance continues to drop and students, alumni and community continue to show lack of interest, I disagree.


----------



## 4Q_iu

treeman said:


> I don't liker the Omaha add at all. But one question the MVC might be looking at is----If they can get 6,000 to show up to 18 hockey games, is there a market for a solid fanbase for bball? and maybe someone closer to the situation can answer that question. Is Omaha just a big hockey town? Do they have a great hockey tradition? Do people just go because of the beer (looking at you Creighton)?




have they been added??    believe the Valley admins folks are only visiting...

have to look at it this way...

the valley has three camps; public schools with scholie football...
(private) drake with non-scholie football
the privates with no football...

valpo is another drake (private) non-scholie football
murray state is a public with scholie football
omaha (or milwaukee or belmont or ill-chicago) is a no football school...

So, IF the Valley invites 3, not 1 -- each camp is represented with an additional "like-minded" school...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> have they been added??    believe the Valley admins folks are only visiting...
> 
> have to look at it this way...
> 
> the valley has three camps; public schools with scholie football...
> (private) drake with non-scholie football
> the privates with no football...
> 
> valpo is another drake (private) non-scholie football
> murray state is a public with scholie football
> omaha (or milwaukee or belmont or ill-chicago) is a no football school...
> 
> So, IF the Valley invites 3, not 1 -- each camp is represented with an additional 'like-minded school...


That actually makes sense from how they'd approach it while showing they have no plans but to keep the same fractured vision. If that is the case, it is what it is, but then I really want to know how State plans to up the basketball budget to become competitive on a yearly basis... none of this bottom of the league, underfunded bullshit.


----------



## 4Q_iu

That's why I feel expansion, replacement in the Valley is harder than some think.   None of the "power 5" conferences have disparate schools like the Valley.  The MAC, C-USA, Mtn West and SunBelt are all (pretty much) on the same page...  As to the mid-majors, the Colonial does (somewhat), the WCC does a bit, the Atl-10 as well.

  The Valley has been dealing with the football question for 30 years and STILL hasn't solved it.   I don't see it being solved now but the football question is a big part of why Valpo and Murray are in the mix.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Article from Milwaukee paper on MVC:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...ng-move-missouri-valley-conference/100937130/

Article from UNO paper on MVC:

http://www.omaha.com/uno/report-mis...cle_d9848b66-2a10-11e7-ac1a-d388a457169d.html


----------



## SycamoreFan317

From the BSU Board some of their posters are actually showing interest in joining the MVC.
http://overthepylon.boards.net/thread/1262/valpo-alpo


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Thoughts on the expansion from multiple beat writers:

http://thesouthern.com/sports/blog-...cle_d2946ec8-144f-5675-ac7b-ae8cb7b94f99.html


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Conference meetings started today and there already appears to be some news leaking out:


Source- Situation fluid as presidents need to meet. @valpoathletics appears to lead pack for invitation for 10th member in Valley. @ESPNCBB— Mark Adams (@EnthusiAdams) May 2, 2017


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Conference meetings started today and there already appears to be some news leaking out:
> 
> 
> Source- Situation fluid as presidents need to meet. @valpoathletics appears to lead pack for invitation for 10th member in Valley. @ESPNCBB— Mark Adams (@EnthusiAdams) May 2, 2017


So... add Valpo and... Murray and...

Omaha?
Chicago?
Milwaukee?


Have to believe Omaha gets a hard look because it's IN Omaha...

and...

Giving the 'western members' (mo state, drake, no iowa) a 'break' on travel to milwaukee and chicago


----------



## TreeTop

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Source confirms <a href="https://twitter.com/valpoathletics">@valpoathletics</a> likely to replace Wichita St as 10th member of The Valley. Valpo probable only addition. No vote/invite yet.</p>— Mark Adams (@EnthusiAdams) <a href="https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859433781803069440">May 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

"Valpo probable only addition."

There ya go.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Don't like Valpo only add. Does nothing for us and our position within the conference. It's akin to adding just Loyola the first time around.


----------



## Bluethunder

If we are going to add one, I would prefer Murray State.


----------



## treeman

if we only add Valpo, then the MVC has shat the bed again.

Best case scenerio: 

Add both Valpo and Murray State, play with 11 for a season or two until a solid 12th member emerges.

situations i can live with: 

Add only Murray State. 
Add Murray State, Valpo, and Milwuakee. (i would like to have belmont in there, but that just aint going to happen.)

wow, we f***** this one up:

Add only Valpo
Don't add anyone
Add Omaha with any combination of schools


----------



## 4Q_iu

treeman said:


> if we only add Valpo, then the MVC has shat the bed again.
> 
> Best case scenerio:
> 
> Add both Valpo and Murray State, play with 11 for a season or two until a solid 12th member emerges.
> 
> situations i can live with:
> 
> Add only Murray State.
> Add Murray State, Valpo, and Milwuakee. (i would like to have belmont in there, but that just aint going to happen.)
> 
> wow, we f***** this one up:
> 
> Add only Valpo
> Don't add anyone
> Add Omaha with any combination of schools




Adding only Valpo would be a mistake UNLESS they follow-up with:

Adding Valpo for the next season with Murray and (insert STATE U _ City Campus) for 2018-19.

Golden's piece on the Valley moving to 12 is awfully logical; 12 would add guaranteed home games at a time it's becoming harder and harder to get a legit team to play in/at a Valley arena...

12 would be hard/impossible to have a round-robin MBB/WBB schedule BUT as long as they protect certain matchups (i.e. we play Moores Hill twice EVERY year, Drake gets NoIowa twice EVERY year, etc)  its more appealing to fans/customers


----------



## Jason Svoboda

The one thing to keep in mind this is a leak coming out of the MVC coaches/administrator conferences being held today and not from the University Presidents so this is likely just their preferences of coaches and admins.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

4Q_iu said:


> 12 would be hard/impossible to have a round-robin MBB/WBB schedule BUT as long as they protect certain matchups (i.e. we play Moores Hill twice EVERY year, Drake gets NoIowa twice EVERY year, etc)  its more appealing to fans/customers


The way most of these conferences with 12+ members do it is they have the top teams play H/H with each other and then play the lower teams once. I think if you go with that philosophy and then fill in with the rivalries to back fill the remaining conference games like you mentioned, that would be a sound scheduling policy. That would assure your top teams get the RPI boost needed as well as making sure they keep H/H rivalry series.

I think the other benefit (that other Valley schools are saying is a negative) but having more conference games alleviates some of the scheduling issues for coaches. This makes the games they do go after easier I'd assume.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> The way most of these conferences with 12+ members do it is they have the top teams play H/H with each other and then play the lower teams once. I think if you go with that philosophy and then fill in with the rivalries to back fill the remaining conference games like you mentioned, that would be a sound scheduling policy. That would assure your top teams get the RPI boost needed as well as making sure they keep H/H rivalry series.
> 
> I think the other benefit (that other Valley schools are saying is a negative) but having more conference games alleviates some of the scheduling issues for coaches. This makes the games they do go after easier I'd assume.




That sounds pretty legit; I'll guess they use the prior years RPI or BPI or other vaunted system?

I think the round-robin schedule is the best determination of a true league champion; outside of that; a schedule that adheres as close as possible to round-robin.

I don't know if "the games they do go after" would be easier to land BUT I do know that the coaches/ADs would have FEWER holes to fill in a given home schedule.

IF the Valley went to a 12-tm league AND had a round robin conf schedule; you're looking at 22 conference games; add in a neutral site event (3 games but they count as 1, correct?) and there would be 3-4 slots to fill -- correct?   Or would there be 5-6 slots?

I can't see the Valley keeping a round robin SHOULD they move to 12 but I'd bet they bump to a 20-game conf schedule AND should Neb-Omaha be in a new Valley, I'd further bet the Valley would go to divisions...

So, for true arguments sake; the Valley adds Valpo, Murray State and Neb-Omaha.  I'd venture Omaha is in that mix for reasons I've mentioned before... (Omaha market, no football, a western school to ease Drake, No Iowa and Mo State travel...)   

Have a west division of:

BradleyDrakeIllinois StateMissouri StateNebraska - Omaha

<tbody>

[TD="class: xl63"%


----------



## WOZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> The way most of these conferences with 12+ members do it is they have the top teams play H/H with each other and then play the lower teams once. I think if you go with that philosophy and then fill in with the rivalries to back fill the remaining conference games like you mentioned, that would be a sound scheduling policy. That would assure your top teams get the RPI boost needed as well as making sure they keep H/H rivalry series.
> 
> I think the other benefit (that other Valley schools are saying is a negative) but having more conference games alleviates some of the scheduling issues for coaches. This makes the games they do go after easier I'd assume.



So what if we:
      .. Expanded the conference to 12 teams
      .. Had a round robin regular season schedule
      ..  Did away with the season ending, MVC tournament
  Do you think we'd get two bids if two teams tied for 1st place?


----------



## niklz62

WOZ said:


> So what if we:
> .. Expanded the conference to 12 teams
> .. Had a round robin regular season schedule
> ..  Did away with the season ending, MVC tournament
> Do you think we'd get two bids if two teams tied for 1st place?



If I were a gambling man I'd say there would have to be an automatic qualifier and they would be the only one who gets in unless the other team is ranken in the top 25


----------



## sycamorebacker

niklz62 said:


> If I were a gambling man I'd say there would have to be an automatic qualifier and they would be the only one who gets in unless the other team is ranken in the top 25



In 2006 we had 4 teams in the tournament.  I guess you're saying those days are over?  You might be right.


----------



## 4Q_iu

WOZ said:


> So what if we:
> .. Expanded the conference to 12 teams
> .. Had a round robin regular season schedule
> ..  Did away with the season ending, MVC tournament
> Do you think we'd get two bids if two teams tied for 1st place?



There's no chance The Valley drops the MBB Conf Tourney - none, zero, zilch, nada, nil.

And I don't think we'd get two bids in your scenario.


----------



## niklz62

sycamorebacker said:


> In 2006 we had 4 teams in the tournament.  I guess you're saying those days are over?  You might be right.



Total speculation on my part


----------



## Jason Svoboda

WOZ said:


> So what if we:
> .. Expanded the conference to 12 teams
> .. Had a round robin regular season schedule
> ..  Did away with the season ending, MVC tournament
> Do you think we'd get two bids if two teams tied for 1st place?


First, the Valley isn't going to eliminate their conference tournament so that is moot. However, the answer is no, at least not in the way you described. 

The Ivy League does not have a conference tournament so the regular season winner gets the automatic bid which means the Valley would have to crown a singular champion to take the autobid. They'd simply add another tiebreaker to determine a winner. Then the "runner up" would hopefully land an "at large" berth.


----------



## ISUCC

Golden explains how little the private MVC schools have contributed to MVC success since 2010 (in 4 sports)

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/loca...cle_b1c27388-f594-54f1-9380-321e70e028e6.html


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> First, the Valley isn't going to eliminate their conference tournament so that is moot. However, the answer is no, at least not in the way you described.
> 
> The Ivy League does not have a conference tournament so the regular season winner gets the automatic bid which means the Valley would have to crown a singular champion to take the autobid. They'd simply add another tiebreaker to determine a winner. Then the "runner up" would hopefully land an "at large" berth.



This season the Ivy held their 1st MBB tourney, though only the top 4 (of the 8 schools) were included...

http://www.ivyleague.com/sports/mbk...ims_Inaugural_Ivy_League_Tourney_Championship


----------



## Jason Svoboda




----------



## xfactor9600

When is the cutoff to have this team(s) ready for next season? I'd think no later than July 1?


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Article from SIU beat writer on the last go round and public vs. private power struggle.

http://thesouthern.com/sports/colle...cle_080d238e-bde4-555a-b49c-877a0e5f1f56.html

Golden also wrote an article on the privates not performing:

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/loca...cle_b1c27388-f594-54f1-9380-321e70e028e6.html

And MVCFans is basically ripping him apart:

http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4701


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Article from SIU beat writer on the last go round and public vs. private power struggle.
> 
> http://thesouthern.com/sports/colle...cle_080d238e-bde4-555a-b49c-877a0e5f1f56.html
> 
> Golden also wrote an article on the privates not performing:
> 
> http://www.tribstar.com/sports/loca...cle_b1c27388-f594-54f1-9380-321e70e028e6.html
> 
> And MVCFans is basically ripping him apart:
> 
> http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4701




Let the MVCFan'ers rip away -- there are some fundamental issues wrt the Valley that will factor into any invitations that aren't readily visible on the courts / fields.

Of the 9 current MVC schools; 4 are considered "National Universities" -- essentially how the recruit, retain and educate students; the mission of the universities (i.e. research, graduate programs, etc)

(us, Loyola, Ill State & So. Illinois)

the other 5 are all Regional Universities; they recruit students closer to home, they don't have the same view(s) on research or graduate programs.

of the public candidates; they're a mix of National (Milwaukee, Omaha and Ill-Chicago) and regional (Murray, Valpo)

Valpo has a law school ( no idea of how good it is but I doubt it's that high; us news lists it as RNP (ranked, but score not published)

thought Golden was off the mark with his "paranoia" wrt non-football schools...

that's as legit a concern as adding 2-4 of the dakota schools.  Moving the football once a year is one thing BUT moving every time multiple times a year will kill us in travel costs


So, until the bison, rabbits, 'Yotes and Fightin' Hawks want to subsidize a helluva lot of travel costs -- they're not viable potential members.


----------



## BrokerZ

There's an MVC realignment meeting on Monday, per Todd Golden's twitter.  Not sure what that exactly means, but I'm assuming it's actual decision-makers and not just coaches and AD's like the earlier meetings.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> There's an MVC realignment meeting on Monday, per Todd Golden's twitter.  Not sure what that exactly means, but I'm assuming it's actual decision-makers and not just coaches and AD's like the earlier meetings.


Yeah, see post #174. It's the Presidents so it's the actual decision makers. I'd imagine we'll get some finality to this within the next couple weeks.

Bradley beat writer also put up a quick article a bit ago: http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20170504/mvc-nears-decision-on-expansion


----------



## xfactor9600

4Q_iu said:


> Let the MVCFan'ers rip away -- there are some fundamental issues wrt the Valley that will factor into any invitations that aren't readily visible on the courts / fields.
> 
> Of the 9 current MVC schools; 4 are considered "National Universities" -- essentially how the recruit, retain and educate students; the mission of the universities (i.e. research, graduate programs, etc)
> 
> (us, Loyola, Ill State & So. Illinois)
> 
> the other 5 are all Regional Universities; they recruit students closer to home, they don't have the same view(s) on research or graduate programs.
> 
> of the public candidates; they're a mix of National (Milwaukee, Omaha and Ill-Chicago) and regional (Murray, Valpo)
> 
> Valpo has a law school ( no idea of how good it is but I doubt it's that high; us news lists it as RNP (ranked, but score not published)
> 
> thought Golden was off the mark with his "paranoia" wrt non-football schools...
> 
> that's as legit a concern as adding 2-4 of the dakota schools.  Moving the football once a year is one thing BUT moving every time multiple times a year will kill us in travel costs
> 
> 
> So, until the bison, rabbits, 'Yotes and Fightin' Hawks want to subsidize a helluva lot of travel costs -- they're not viable potential members.



It would not shock me if Valparaiso closes their law school in the next few years. Google Valparaiso Law School and New York Times, should find a plethora of articles talking about the issues.


----------



## 4Q_iu

xfactor9600 said:


> It would not shock me if Valparaiso closes their law school in the next few years. Google Valparaiso Law School and New York Times, should find a plethora of articles talking about the issues.





always a possibility and believe they (valpo law) has had problems for several years

it's likely been a fall back / only option for some future lawyers

i believe Ind Tech's program has already shut down as well, was it even open for 10 years?

i don't know the current ## of law schools in the country but it's no doubt in the hundreds; unlike medical, pharmacy, veterinary, phys therapy programs...

again, I think the academics of any future member(s) will play a larger role than many fans believe...  UIC, Milwaukee are very similar to iupui, in that they house a large ## of grad/professional programs in a large metro area   and have added undergrad programs over the years


----------



## xfactor9600

4Q_iu said:


> always a possibility and believe they (valpo law) has had problems for several years
> 
> it's likely been a fall back / only option for some future lawyers
> 
> i believe Ind Tech's program has already shut down as well, was it even open for 10 years?
> 
> i don't know the current ## of law schools in the country but it's no doubt in the hundreds; unlike medical, pharmacy, veterinary, phys therapy programs...
> 
> again, I think the academics of any future member(s) will play a larger role than many fans believe...  UIC, Milwaukee are very similar to iupui, in that they house a large ## of grad/professional programs in a large metro area   and have added undergrad programs over the years



Indiana Tech has indeed shut down. Didn't make it three. It couldn't get accredited which meant most its students couldn't sit for the bar (some states doesn't require graduating from an accredited school). Valpo for awhile had a good reputation as a smaller law school, but they went downhill.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Yeah, see post #174. It's the Presidents so it's the actual decision makers. I'd imagine we'll get some finality to this within the next couple weeks.
> 
> Bradley beat writer also put up a quick article a bit ago: http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20170504/mvc-nears-decision-on-expansion



Sorry! Twitter is blocked where I work so any imbedded tweets just show up as blank posts.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Mark Adams with a poll on who you'd take as the 10th member of the Valley.


If you were deciding on 10th @ValleyHoops @MVCsports member, tell me why your school should be choice. I'm serious, be respectful/thoughtful— Mark Adams (@EnthusiAdams) May 5, 2017


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Sorry! Twitter is blocked where I work so any imbedded tweets just show up as blank posts.


Communists! Understood, my work blocks it, too.


----------



## BrokerZ

Jason Svoboda said:


> Communists! Understood, my work blocks it, too.



No kidding.  It's silly because I can just take my work-issued phone or iPad and be on Twitter all day long. But...no...not your work desktop!


----------



## niklz62

My average day:
1. check SP
2. work for 45 minutes
3. go back to my SP window to see if anyone else has posted anything new.
4. pull up SP on my phone to see if Jason posted a twitter post or if he just bumped the thread.
5. repeat


----------



## BankShot

This article suggests that VALPO will be the only offer by the MVC.

http://www.news-leader.com/story/sp...ddition-missouri-valley-conference/101206004/


----------



## BrokerZ

I'm beginning to wonder if football is going to ultimately be the reason Murray State isn't invited. How the OVC and possibly the MVFC handles Murray State's football membership could be a real sticking point. Inviting Valpo is the cleaner, easier choice since their football program doesn't create any problems. Are we simply taking the path of least resistance instead of choosing the best candidate?

For me, my order of ideal scenarios would be to 1) invite both and create an 11-school league, 2) invite only Murray State, and 3) invite only Valpo. Murray State just makes too much sense long term not to get them in the fold now. 

Selfishly, I'm also excited to see Arch Madness with the Racers.  They'd be a nice addition to the atmosphere there with their solid fan support.


----------



## BankShot

Since the MVC is leaning towards a Chicago-area mid-major corridor, I'm for adding Milwaukee to go along w/ the Valpo-Murray St. deal. As you allude to, if the MVC doesn't grab them now, I wonder if they'll be on the market later?

With Murray St. "in the fold," I also see a *SE Mo St*. MVC deal on the horizon in perhaps 5-10 yrs.


----------



## southernindianaballer

BankShot said:


> This article suggests that VALPO will be the only offer by the MVC.
> 
> http://www.news-leader.com/story/sp...ddition-missouri-valley-conference/101206004/



Thanks for posting the article...  I hope that isn't the case.  I personally feel that between Milwaukee, Murray, and Valpo that Valpo is the weaker choice of the three.  I assume there might be a conference issue with Murray and football?  Does the MVFC accept them, if not, does the OVC allow them to be football only?  If we pick one - pick a public to replace the Shockers is my opinion.  All three, coming on board, would be a win.


----------



## BankShot

As I posted previously, the historic ties of Valpo & ISU "back in the dayz" of Indiana Collegiate Conference (ICC) coupled w/ the thousands of ISU Alumni in the "Region" provide fertile ground for the re-emergence of a "rivalry" that could ultimately add $$$ to ISU's fundraising efforts.

Not sure who made a point of labeling Valpo as a "regional" college a few days ago, but have they glanced @ Valpo's roster over the past few seasons and noticed the Euro ethnicity?


----------



## Sycamore Proud

Let's just take the current FCS schools, add the Dakotas, Val[p, Murry State, SEMO and UM-M.   I almost forgot EIU.  Extend an invitation to Northern IL and Ball State   Sit those interested around a table and see what happens.  Yes, we could go farther west if we want.  Some body else want in?  Offer them a seat at the same table.  Could be interesting.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Sycamore Proud said:


> Let's just take the current FCS schools, add the Dakotas, Val[p, Murry State, SEMO and UM-M.   I almost forgot EIU.  Extend an invitation to Northern IL and Ball State   Sit those interested around a table and see what happens.  Yes, we could go farther west if we want.  Some body else want in?  Offer them a seat at the same table.  Could be interesting.


----------



## ISUCC

very good article today from Kirk Wessler over in Peoria, the president's had better get this right tomorrow night!

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/201705...-fix-themselves-while-determining-new-members


----------



## Jason Svoboda

ISUCC said:


> very good article today from Kirk Wessler over in Peoria, the president's had better get this right tomorrow night!
> 
> http://www.pjstar.com/sports/201705...-fix-themselves-while-determining-new-members


Thought it was a pretty weak article myself. Throws out something and then nothing to back up his point/idea.


----------



## xfactor9600

Jason Svoboda said:


> Thought it was a pretty weak article myself. Throws out something and then nothing to back up his point/idea.


 Started out strong and then fizzled.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Fan sites for Valpo and Murray State if you want to read the insights of their fan bases:

Murray State: https://www.racerfans.com/board/
Valpo: http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php


----------



## Jason Svoboda

http://www.1470wmbd.com/report-mvc-add-valparaiso/

And


This is a direct statement from MSU AD Allen Ward. His opening thoughts: pic.twitter.com/2hqDUzocfX— Edward Alan Marlowe (@dreamarlowe85) May 9, 2017



Thoughts?


----------



## Parsons

Very short sighted!


----------



## Bluethunder

Disappointed.

Not surprised, but disappointed nonetheless.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Missouri Valley Conference statement on membership. pic.twitter.com/MNKLOAwwsE— Missouri Valley Conference (@MVCsports) May 9, 2017


----------



## BrokerZ

Not happy about this. At all.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

BrokerZ said:


> Not happy about this. At all.


With their hard-on for Belmont and continual chase of Saint Louis, it feels as if the MVC wants to evolve into a Big East/A10 lite. Will be interesting to see if any of the bigger publics (UNI, Missouri State or Illinois State) try to find a different home.


----------



## Bluethunder

As someone posted on Twitter, "The MVC never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity".

Pretty much sums up how I feel on this one.


----------



## treeman

Doug Elgin could fall into a barrel of titties and come out sucking his thumb.


----------



## TreeTop

I guess I'm in the minority on this board in that I'm fine with just adding Valpo.


----------



## region rat

My pick and good choice being from the "Region".  Makes for an easy trip and reduction in expenses.  Makes for a formidable opponent in the Valley.  Not to the extent of Wichita but will compete for Conference Champs regularly.


----------



## Bluethunder

region rat said:


> My pick and good choice being from the "Region".  Makes for an easy trip and reduction in expenses.  Makes for a formidable opponent in the Valley.  Not to the extent of Wichita but will compete for Conference Champs regularly.



Not disagreeing with you in anyway, and my disappointment is not that Valpo was chosen, but that Valpo was the only one chosen.

So much is changing in college basketball and we just keep the status quo.  One team leaves, one team joins,.....one team leaves, one team joins.  This was a chance to make the Valley stronger, more vibrant and on much more stable footing (IMO) by adding Valpo, Murray State and UWM and instead the conference took the simple, easy and well traveled route.

Think outside the box a little.  Would have liked the conference to think a little bigger on this one.


----------



## Southgrad07

Could of been worse. Murray and Valpo was what I was pulling for. Then it secures you if a team bolts in the future, gives you an easy route to adding a 12th down the road if a great opp. presented itself with St. Lou or an up and coming program, and allows you to further deplete other mid major leagues to create separation.


----------



## SycamoreStateofMind

These guys on Twitter aruging about who tweeted it our first is pathetic. Who was the insider that found out Valpo over Murray?!?! How about who bleeping cares who was first.


----------



## ISUCC

Bluethunder said:


> As someone posted on Twitter, "The MVC never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity".
> 
> Pretty much sums up how I feel on this one.



this x 100,000,000

just terrible decisions once again being made by the MVC presidents, the conference continues to go down the toilet, 

I'm ok with adding Valpo, but we need to be proactive here and add more than one team, sure they're going to keep looking over the next 9 months, but what if those teams we're looking at get plucked by another conference? Then they're gone. 

Just unbelievable once again.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Door may be open?


The expansion committee will continue to meet for the next 9 months to evaluate further expansion opportunities. https://t.co/W7ENKtFflF— Clif Smart (@ClifSmart) May 9, 2017


----------



## meistro

treeman said:


> Doug Elgin could fall into a barrel of titties and come out sucking his thumb.



Now that's some funny stuff right there! Thank yoy


----------



## 4Q_iu

treeman said:


> Doug Elgin could fall into a barrel of titties and come out sucking his thumb.




If you're going to hurl stones, add THESE folks to your target list:

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <w:WordDocument>   <w:View>Normal</w:View>   <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom>   <w:TrackMoves/>   <w:TrackFormatting/>   <wunctuationKerning/>   <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>   <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>   <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>   <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>   <woNotPromoteQF/>   <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther>   <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian>   <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript>   <w:Compatibility>    <w:BreakWrappedTables/>    <w:SnapToGridInCell/>    <w:WrapTextWithPunct/>    <w:UseAsianBreakRules/>    <wontGrowAutofit/>    <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/>    <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/>    <wontFlipMirrorIndents/>    <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/>   </w:Compatibility>   <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/>   <m:mathPr>    <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/>    <m:brkBin m:val="before"/>    <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/>    <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/>    <m:dispDef/>    <m:lMargin m:val="0"/>    <m:rMargin m:val="0"/>    <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/>    <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/>    <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/>    <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/>   </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->  Indiana State -- President Dan Bradley
  Bradley -- President Gary R. Roberts & Provost Walter Zakahi
  Drake -- President Earl F. "Marty" Martin
  Evansville -- President Thomas A. Kazee
  Illinois State -- President Larry Dietz & Provost Janet Krejci
  Loyola -- Chancellor Michael J. Garanzini & President Jo Ann Rooney
  Missouri State -- President Clifton M. Smart III & Provost Frank A. Einhellig
  Northerin Iowa -- President Mark Nook
  Southern Illinois -- President Randy Dunn
  <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>  <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="false"   DefSemiHidden="false" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99"   LatentStyleCount="371">   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="toc 9"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footnote text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="header"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footer"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="index heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="table of figures"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="envelope address"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="envelope return"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="footnote reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="line number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="page number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="endnote reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="endnote text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="table of authorities"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="macro"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="toa heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Bullet 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Number 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Closing"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Signature"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="List Continue 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Message Header"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Salutation"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Date"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text First Indent"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text First Indent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Note Heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Body Text Indent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Block Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Hyperlink"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="FollowedHyperlink"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Document Map"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Plain Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="E-mail Signature"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Top of Form"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Bottom of Form"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal (Web)"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Acronym"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Address"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Cite"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Code"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Definition"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Keyboard"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Preformatted"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Sample"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Typewriter"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="HTML Variable"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Normal Table"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="annotation subject"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="No List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Outline List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Simple 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Classic 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Colorful 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Columns 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Grid 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 7"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table List 8"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table 3D effects 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Contemporary"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Elegant"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Professional"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Subtle 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Subtle 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Web 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Balloon Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="Table Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"    Name="Table Theme"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Placeholder Text"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" Name="Revision"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" QFormat="true"    Name="List Paragraph"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Quote"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Name="Light List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" QFormat="true"    Name="Subtle Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Emphasis"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" QFormat="true"    Name="Subtle Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" QFormat="true"    Name="Intense Reference"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Bibliography"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" SemiHidden="true"    UnhideWhenUsed="true" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="41" Name="Plain Table 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="42" Name="Plain Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="43" Name="Plain Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="44" Name="Plain Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="45" Name="Plain Table 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="40" Name="Grid Table Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="Grid Table 1 Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="Grid Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="Grid Table 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="Grid Table 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="Grid Table 4 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="Grid Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="Grid Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 1"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 2"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 3"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 4"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46"    Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51"    Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/>   <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52"    Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/>  </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style>  /* Style Definitions */  table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-priority:99; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin:0in; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:11.0pt; 	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; 	mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; 	mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; 	mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; 	mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> Door may be open?
> 
> 
> The expansion committee will continue to meet for the next 9 months to evaluate further expansion opportunities. https://t.co/W7ENKtFflF— Clif Smart (@ClifSmart) May 9, 2017



Very likely a lot of back room chatter still occuring


----------



## Jason Svoboda

From MVCFans:

With the addition of Valpo, below is the all-time NCAA records for each 2017-18 MVC member along with the seasons in which their last win and last appearance occurred (in reverse order of effective membership):

Valparaiso – 2-9 (last win 1998) (last appearance 2015)
Loyola – 9-4 (last win 1985) (last appearance 1985)
Evansville – 1-5 (last win 1989) (last appearance 1999)
Northern Iowa – 5-8 (last win 2016) (last appearance 2016)
Missouri State – 3-6 (last win 1999) (last appearance 1999)
Illinois State – 3-6 (last win 1998) (last appearance 1998)
Indiana State – 5-4 ( last win 2001) (last appearance 2011)
Southern Illinois – 6-10 (last win 2007) (last appearance 2007)
Bradley – 11-8 (last win 2006) (last appearance 2006)
Drake – 5-4 (last win 1971) (last appearance 2008)


----------



## nwi stater

Well, at least, I won't have far to see the boys in BLUE play. Still think they should have invited Murray State too.


----------



## region rat

Not clear whether Valpo and MVC are together yet.  If MVC wants to add more teams plus Valpo they should go for two more teams and it should be Murray St. and Western Kentucky, if they can be had.  I would make it a stipulation, if Valpo is in, and further expansion is wanted that two more teams need to be added.  My two choices are noted above.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

region rat said:


> Not clear whether Valpo and MVC are together yet.  If MVC wants to add more teams plus Valpo they should go for two more teams and it should be Murray St. and Western Kentucky, if they can be had.  I would make it a stipulation, if Valpo is in, and further expansion is wanted that two more teams need to be added.  My two choices are noted above.


There is a little noise surrounding Saint Louis wanting to lower costs because they're taking a bath being in the A10, so it could be interesting. 

Also worth noting, our next President will be in on the next decisions. Once he gets into office, it may make sense to start getting it into his field of awareness.


----------



## 4Q_iu

region rat said:


> Not clear whether Valpo and MVC are together yet.  If MVC wants to add more teams plus Valpo they should go for two more teams and it should be Murray St. and Western Kentucky, if they can be had.  I would make it a stipulation, if Valpo is in, and further expansion is wanted that two more teams need to be added.  My two choices are noted above.




I'd venture there's a 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000 chance of western kentucky joining the valley.


----------



## SycamoreFan317

This decision leaves me to believe that we have three choices to choose from. (1) Join the OVC (2) Start a new conference with (which won't happen because of football playoff reasons) and (3)Stay where we are at and go down with this sinking ship. I think choice one is pretty obvious the best decision.


----------



## region rat

SycamoreFan317 said:


> This decision leaves me to believe that we have three choices to choose from. (1) Join the OVC (2) Start a new conference with (which won't happen because of football playoff reasons) and (3)Stay where we are at and go down with this sinking ship. I think choice one is pretty obvious the best decision.



I'm going to be creamed, but need to drop football!


----------



## OX 92

We finally have football out of the cellar. Not an option for me.  Also many kids want to attend football games in the fall.  My daughter's (twins) were looking at ISU, Purdue and USI.  Both crossed USI of the list because of no football. Seriously, Its a part of the college experience for many.  I realize sports are not how you pick a college but...


----------



## Jason Svoboda

OX 92 said:


> We finally have football out of the cellar. Not an option for me.  Also many kids want to attend football games in the fall.  My daughter's (twins) were looking at ISU, Purdue and USI.  Both crossed USI of the list because of no football. Seriously, Its a part of the college experience for many.  I realize sports are not how you pick a college but...


Man, really wish that was representative of our student base.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

SycamoreFan317 said:


> This decision leaves me to believe that we have three choices to choose from. (1) Join the OVC (2) Start a new conference with (which won't happen because of football playoff reasons) and (3)Stay where we are at and go down with this sinking ship. I think choice one is pretty obvious the best decision.


#2 wouldn't happen because of the basketball autobid. From what I've read, once you have 6 teams in your FCS conference, you conference automatically qualifies for a FCS Playoff autobid.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

After reading all of the columns put out by all of the Valley beat writers, several things seem to be clear:

1) The MVC does not care one iota about the MVFC and will continue to operate as such. There will never be a unified conference with regards to the MVC/MVFC. To be in one, you'd have to move. This means Indiana State will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage compared to different sets of peers in each respective conference unless our funding can change. 

2) They didn't want to move to 11 mainly because of scheduling reasons. I believe this is shortsighted piece of the puzzle. Every coach says scheduling is often the most difficult piece of the job and the more teams, the more guaranteed games you have access to. Round robin scheduling and regular season conference champions are overrated and pointless since the NCAA autobid comes as result of winning the conference tournament. 

3) This decision for Valpo out of the 4 was mainly based on the fact that Valpo has had moderate success while being in our geographic footprint and having good/comparable academics to other member schools. Had Murray State been located in Valparaiso and Valpo in Kentucky with everything else the same, Murray State gets the invite. It's obvious that schools are concerned about expenses much more these days and will be going forward.


----------



## Bluethunder

Some interesting little nuggets in here......

http://www.ozarkssportszone.com/201...-further-expansion-after-valparaiso-addition/


----------



## Southgrad07

Pretty high and mighty opinion MSU has of themselves lol.. Never thought about it from their angle and losing their travel partner in WSU. Problem is I don't see a viable candidate in that region of the country that should be considered..I do agree 11 is the answer not 10. In addition to what I posted earlier I like what Jason stated some time ago and reminded us a few posts up... Going to 11 means filling 2 less non conference games on the schedule.. would be a huge boost for us.


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Southgrad07 said:


> Pretty high and mighty opinion MSU has of themselves lol.. Never thought about it from their angle and losing their travel partner in WSU. Problem is I don't see a viable candidate in that region of the country that should be considered..I do agree 11 is the answer not 10. In addition to what I posted earlier I like what Jason stated some time ago and reminded us a few posts up... Going to 11 means filling 2 less non conference games on the schedule.. would be a huge boost for us.


All the while if you listen to their fan base, they're ready for FBS football and moving to a different conference. As if.

EDIT: Maybe we should lock Missouri State and Ball State's admins in a room and see if they would do a 1:1 swap. Then we can rename the MVC to the Big III as in Illinois, Indiana and Iowa.


----------



## 4Q_iu

Jason Svoboda said:


> All the while if you listen to their fan base, they're ready for FBS football and moving to a different conference. As if.
> 
> EDIT: Maybe we should lock Missouri State and Ball State's admins in a room and see if they would do a 1:1 swap. Then we can rename the MVC to the Big III as in Illinois, Indiana and Iowa.




Mo State and Ill State ain't growing to FBS football; simply not enough $$ for them to get there, esp Ill State...  (unless the state of Illinoi$ suddenly realizes tehy can cut costs by shuttering Southern Ill -Ed'ville, Western Ill, Eastern Ill, NorthEastern Ill, Chicago State, Ill-Springfield)


But once Mo State is gone, I'd rename the Valley to the 3-Eye (III) League


----------



## niklz62

4Q_iu said:


> Mo State and Ill State ain't growing to FBS football; simply not enough $$ for them to get there, esp Ill State...  (unless the state of Illinoi$ suddenly realizes tehy can cut costs by shuttering Southern Ill -Ed'ville, Western Ill, Eastern Ill, NorthEastern Ill, Chicago State, Ill-Springfield)
> 
> 
> But once Mo State is gone, I'd rename the Valley to the 3-Eye (III) League



Maybe State Farm will kick in some cash to get them there.  They sent their big money down the road to rename Assembly Hall though.


----------



## xfactor9600

Southgrad07 said:


> Pretty high and mighty opinion MSU has of themselves lol.. Never thought about it from their angle and losing their travel partner in WSU. Problem is I don't see a viable candidate in that region of the country that should be considered..I do agree 11 is the answer not 10. In addition to what I posted earlier I like what Jason stated some time ago and reminded us a few posts up... Going to 11 means filling 2 less non conference games on the schedule.. would be a huge boost for us.



I mean if you believe that SLU would like to cut back on travel and other expenses of the A-10 (things got exponentially more expensive when they lost a travel partner in X  as they could go to Cincinnati and Dayton in one portion of the schedule), maybe this is the time the MVC should take a run at them. I still don't believe they will join as I believe they continue to targer students on the Eastern Seaboard, but what could it hurt?


----------



## 4Q_iu

The REAL reason Valparaiso was invited...

http://www.nwitimes.com/business/jo...cle_3c6593fc-e43e-52f6-a657-8de59eaa68ab.html


and the REAL reason Neb-Omaha was visited and why North Dakota and South Dakota State were begging to be invited to Valley...


----------



## tjbison

4Q_iu said:


> The REAL reason Valparaiso was invited...
> 
> http://www.nwitimes.com/business/jo...cle_3c6593fc-e43e-52f6-a657-8de59eaa68ab.html
> 
> 
> and the REAL reason Neb-Omaha was visited and why North Dakota and South Dakota State were begging to be invited to Valley...



Aviation???


----------



## 4Q_iu

Thems some mad critical thinking skills! :thumbsup:


----------



## Bally #50

4Q_iu said:


> Thems some mad critical thinking skills! :thumbsup:



Let's be frank here, 4Q........... Aviation WAS???


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Some interesting points in here:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...alpo-but-should-resist-expanding-to-12-teams/


----------



## xfactor9600

While the 10 team round robin sounds nice (and clearly works for the Big East) the extra league games mean less of a need for "buy" games. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Jason Svoboda

Coming July 1: Valpo Athletics and @MVCSports join forces! #GoValpo pic.twitter.com/pCY9yftPq3— Valpo Athletics (@valpoathletics) May 25, 2017


----------



## Bluethunder

Looks like the Horizon is planning on adding more than just one member to get back to 10.  Sounds like they want to look at expanding out to 12 members if they can, possibly more.

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/s...alley/Pgx8nX8pLJPv4xFwSzL9OK/?ref=cbTopWidget


----------



## 4Q_iu

I think the Commish forgot a few directions when discussing the level of interest from un-named schools... _ "We really can’t go much further north, but certainly we have had  candidate interest from the east, the south, southeast, southwest and  west."_

have to wonder if Oral Roberts would be interested in returning to the Horizon... or Belmont making the move from the OVC...  maybe the iu-regional HS in the Summit would be interested in the Horizon...    

I'd have to believe UMKC would love to be a more "local" conference than the WAC; given the state of $$ in illinois, I wonder when chicago state will make the "hard" decision to shutter its entire athletics program...

pure speculation but I wonder if Okla City Univ would have any interest in returning to the NCAA...


----------



## ISUCC

If you read the Wright State message board, they all think the Horizon will add Robert Morris University first (near Pittsburgh). But they don't have baseball, and the Horizon needs Baseball, so I'd guess another add for them would be IPFW, and then IUPUI because they're close. And IPFW has baseball. IUPUI doesn't but they fit geographically in the HL and obviously puts the HL back in Indy. 

But 2018 appears to be the next time they'll add.


----------



## 4Q_iu

ISUCC said:


> If you read the Wright State message board, they all think the Horizon will add Robert Morris University first (near Pittsburgh). But they don't have baseball, and the Horizon needs Baseball, so I'd guess another add for them would be IPFW, and then IUPUI because they're close. And IPFW has baseball. IUPUI doesn't but they fit geographically in the HL and obviously puts the HL back in Indy.
> 
> But 2018 appears to be the next time they'll add.




Rob't Morris puts the Horizon in the Pittsburgh area but I don't know what else Morris brings to the Horizon...

two articles:

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017...aiso-mvc-conference-realignment-summit-league

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...-horizon-league-replace-valparaiso/101506372/

the take-aways:

Sportingnews.com's Mike DeCourcy mentions Robert Morris, Omaha, Fort Wayne, IUPUI and UMKC as candidates...


The Detroit News' Tony Paul points out that "the Horizon League has been very open about having discussions with possible future members in recent years."  possible schools are: IPFW, IUPUI and Neb-Omaha from the Summit & Belmont, Murray State and SIU Edwardsville from the Ohio Valley Conference.


    A wild card: Phoenix's Grand Canyon, a member of the WAC. 

Midmajormadness.com's Andrew Evans suggests that the Horizon can do nothing, turn to the Summit, expand the footprint or get creative.  “Who says future additions have to be from the current Division I  ranks?”  Some speculation that ISU-E, aka USI of the GLVC may be positioning itself for a move from Div II to Div I. The school is renovating its basketball arena, but has said this does not necessarily mean it is pursuing reclassification.


  IPFW & IUPUI would seem to make the most sense if the Horizon doesn’t want to branch out from its existing footprint, Evans adds.


----------

