34 Yrs. Ago - Dec 12, 1977 – At 7:21 pm

[BankShot]

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/local/article_0bb7d4e2-e7b8-11de-8314-001cc4c03286.html

Where were you? (v. Walter Cronkite's "You Were There..)"


The Aces last game was in TH v. the Sycamores - their frosh hotshot, 6'7" MIKE DUFF (Eldorado, IL) wouldn't back down to the Great Winged One. Only the Lord knows what Duff might've accomplished

I know this is primarily an OFC inquiry, but I'm sure that most of the OFC boyz have vivid memories of the tragedy to this day.

 

[Sycamore Proud]

I was at home grading papers. The TV was on, but I wasn't paying attention to it. My wife uttered something like "Oh no!". I believe every basketball fan living at that time remembers that tragedy.

 

[TJames]

One of the stars of that UE team was Terre Haute native Mike Joyner....

who played at Terre Haute South. One picture always comes to mind from that game. Former Sycamore forward Harry Morgan goes up for a slam dunk and comes down almost on top of the UE player. The picture that ran in the paper made it seem as if Harry's foot was coming down on the UE players throat.

 

[SycamoreSage]

I went to high school with Mike Joyner's father, Bob. He was a 6-2 post player at Wiley High School in the early 1950s. Bob was never the same after the tragedy. He died about 15 years ago.

 

[BankShot]

I'm not sure I could handle the loss of a son that had accomplished so much (academically & athletics)...and had quite a future on a young & talented UE squad. Very sad.

Didn't those THS squads in the late 70's go to 3 straight IHSAA Finals? I know Cameron & Thompson were on those teams...they also had a 6'5" forward - Will Uzzell? I think he's got a boy playing ball @THS now.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

I'm not sure I could handle the loss of a son that had accomplished so much (academically & athletics)...and had quite a future on a young & talented UE squad. Very sad.

Didn't those THS squads in the late 70's go to 3 straight IHSAA Finals? I know Cameron & Thompson were on those teams...they also had a 6'5" forward - Will Uzzell? I think he's got a boy playing ball @THS now.

Don't forget, at least one of those THS teams had a couple of guys named Mahurin...

 

[Bally #50]

I didn't know any players but I did know the crew and the girl I was dating at the time flew for National and was supposed to be a flight attendant on the plane but switched at the last moment to another flight a couple of days later. I also knew Jim Stewart who I think was the G.M. for National. We had all enjoyed a Christmas party earlier in the week. My girlfriend and I were out at their facilities at the airport consoling people when the word got out and news cameras actually followed me into the men's room trying to get the names of victims and I will never forget how tacky that was.

 

[Sycamore Proud]

I didn't know any players but I did know the crew and the girl I was dating at the time flew for National and was supposed to be a flight attendant on the plane but switched at the last moment to another flight a couple of days later. I also knew Jim Stewart who I think was the G.M. for National. We had all enjoyed a Christmas party earlier in the week. My girlfriend and I were out at their facilities at the airport consoling people when the word got out and news cameras actually followed me into the men's room trying to get the names of victims and I will never forget how tacky that was.

It goes with the job. I have little respect for the ethics of field reporters when it comes to the privacy of victims and/or the innocent.

 

[TJames]

Those late 1970s Terre Haute South teams had....

Cam Cameron, Richard Wilson, Kevin Thompson, Will Uzzell, Mike Joyner, Tyrone Crawford, among others.

 

[Bally #50]

I know it does SP, but that memory is stuck in my mind and has been for years. Since it was the 13th, I have always been more superstitious as well. Had my heart attack on the 13th and there are some other notables disasters on the date as well.

 

[Bob Evans]

I went to that ISU-UE game. I seem to remember someone from UE playing that had gone to the lab school in Terre Haute. Could that be right?

 

[4Q_iu]

I didn't know any players but I did know the crew and the girl I was dating at the time flew for National and was supposed to be a flight attendant on the plane but switched at the last moment to another flight a couple of days later. I also knew Jim Stewart who I think was the G.M. for National. We had all enjoyed a Christmas party earlier in the week. My girlfriend and I were out at their facilities at the airport consoling people when the word got out and news cameras actually followed me into the men's room trying to get the names of victims and I will never forget how tacky that was.

Didn't the NTSB rule it a purely preventable accident? All pilot error?

 

[Bally #50]

Didn't the NTSB rule it a purely preventable accident? All pilot error?

You know, 4Q, I don't remember but I think the plane failed to get de-iced and the wings were too heavy for it to gain the proper altitude as it was still pretty close to the airport when it went down. The crew overlooked some signs of iceing so I am guessing it was pilot error. I am not positive of that however. I think it was a very old DC-3 and it didn't have all the indicators that a modern plane would have. At the time, they were doing charters for some of the Indiana colleges like Butler, Valpo and I am pretty sure ISU as well.

 

[TJames]

Yeah. I think the same charter company did a flight for the ISU football team....

a few years earlier, like in 1973 or so, and they had engine problems on a flight back from either Eastern or Western Carolina. It was before I was there, but I remember the coaches talking about it later. They had to make an emergency landing in Huntington, West Virginia and then bus back. They had two smaller planes, one for offense and one for defense. I think the defensive plane was the one that had problems. They ended up busing the defense back to Terre Haute.

 

[4Q_iu]

Here is the NTSB report...

You know, 4Q, I don't remember but I think the plane failed to get de-iced and the wings were too heavy for it to gain the proper altitude as it was still pretty close to the airport when it went down. The crew overlooked some signs of iceing so I am guessing it was pilot error. I am not positive of that however. I think it was a very old DC-3 and it didn't have all the indicators that a modern plane would have. At the time, they were doing charters for some of the Indiana colleges like Butler, Valpo and I am pretty sure ISU as well.

It isn't too long but read the report; the gust locks were still in the rudder and ailerons; so essentially they had very little control. The icing played a role, icing will affect lift.

Truly a sad, sad day. I've also heard that some of the next-of-kin dread the day as the media continually reminds the community, they essentially feel as though they bury their loved ones, again and again.

PROBABLE CAUSE(S) PILOT IN COMMAND - INADEQUATE PREFLIGHT PREPARATION AND/OR PLANNING

MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - GUST LOCKS ENGAGED
FACTOR(S) MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - IMPROPERLY LOADED AIRCRAFT-WEIGHT-AND/OR C.G. FIRE AFTER IMPACT

REMARKS- RUDDER,R AIL CTL LOCKS INSTALLED.

REAR CG AFT OF OPTIMUM RANGE BUT FORWARD OF REARMOST LIMIT.

REMARKS- RUDDER,R AIL CTL LOCKS INSTALLED

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=43822&key=0&print=1

 

[Bally #50]

I figured you would find the answer. I had forgotten about the rudder situation although that is likely why I was thinking the crew overlooked something. It sucked any way you looked at it. Thanks for checking on that.

 

[4Q_iu]

I figured you would find the answer. I had forgotten about the rudder situation although that is likely why I was thinking the crew overlooked something. It sucked any way you looked at it. Thanks for checking on that.

THink the weather was pretty brutal, sleet, freezing rain, etc and they crew either overlooked/missed the locks or they rushed through the pre-flight due to the weather.

Pilot was pretty experienced; 9,100 hours, nearly 1/2 of it in the DC-3.

Love the DC-3; a great, great airplane

 

[Bally #50]

It was a miserable night in Indy, that much I remember. My date and I were at a popular watering hole on the northside when the word came out and we immediately rushed out to National's facilities at the airport. I had been on that plane a month earlier, not going anywhere but I got a look at what she was flying (they had more than one DC-3 and I don't think they actually had a jet, although it was in the company name). I do recall they were prone to serious turbulance and she had literally bounced off the ceiling once in flight and landed hard on a beverage cart and came home looking like she had been mugged.

 

[4Q_iu]

It was a miserable night in Indy, that much I remember. My date and I were at a popular watering hole on the northside when the word came out and we immediately rushed out to National's facilities at the airport. I had been on that plane a month earlier, not going anywhere but I got a look at what she was flying (they had more than one DC-3 and I don't think they actually had a jet, although it was in the company name). I do recall they were prone to serious turbulance and she had literally bounced off the ceiling once in flight and landed hard on a beverage cart and came home looking like she had been mugged.

If an aircraft is using a turbo-charged piston engine, the Airlines and FAA consider that 'jet time' for the pilots-in-command; so you have a lot of folks getting time in Beechcraft King Airs and are credited with 'jet time' even though to the 'naked eye' a King Air is a 'prop plane.'

Is this the company? http://www.nationaljets.com/www/default.asp?contentID=517

 

[Bally #50]

I am pretty sure they are not related to that company. They were called National Jet Service and they were based at IND, Jim Stewart , the president died in the crash. They were financially strapped before this crash and I am not sure but I thinked they closed up not too long after this trajedy but again, I am not positive. Some things I remember like they were yesterday, others not.