Ball State's attendance issues

[Sycamore Proud]

Donors and BSU buy tickets to field a BCS team.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...dance-rule-keeps-costing-ball-state/94232566/

 

[bent20]

If they wait a little longer and we wait a little longer, they can eventually have our spot in the MVC.

 

[Bally #50]

If they wait a little longer and we wait a little longer, they can eventually have our spot in the MVC.

A bit more optimistically, the "bottom" half of the MAC (BSU, maybe Ohio, Kent State, Eastern MI, Akron, Central etc). and SIU, ISUR, ISUB, WIU, YSU? and others could form a new FCS conference in ALL sports. There are plenty of combinations that could be exciting if they want to go bigger than 10 or so. I talked to Sherard about this specific subject and he loosely commented that it would make sense and that the general idea has been discussed. Not much more than that but it DOES make sense, and I have been hoping it would happen for a decade or more. We'll see.

 

[Bluethunder]

Ball State (and the rest of the MAC) sold their souls for football years ago, and obviously it hasn't paid off.

Look at the great MAC basketball teams in the 90's. Ohio, Miami (OH), Ball State, Eastern Michigan, Kent St.....they all had some good teams that made noise in the NCAA. Wonder how many alumni would be willing to go down in football to bring up their basketball programs?

 

[4Q_iu]

Donors and BSU buy tickets to field a BCS team.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...dance-rule-keeps-costing-ball-state/94232566/

Old news... as the story stated, ISU-M was "2nd to last" (127th) in 2014 and 2015...

 

[SycamoreFan317]

Is the AD really in denial? The numbers are so one sided and the MVFC has been rated a higher conference. What exactly are they currently playing for, oh yeeah NOTHING.

 

[Sycamore Proud]

Old news... as the story stated, ISU-M was "2nd to last" (127th) in 2014 and 2015...

That is the point. They have not solved this problem in at least the last 3 year. I don't see solutions coming in the future do you?

 

[Sycamore Proud]

A bit more optimistically, the "bottom" half of the MAC (BSU, maybe Ohio, Kent State, Eastern MI, Akron, Central etc). and SIU, ISUR, ISUB, WIU, YSU? and others could form a new FCS conference in ALL sports. There are plenty of combinations that could be exciting if they want to go bigger than 10 or so. I talked to Sherard about this specific subject and he loosely commented that it would make sense and that the general idea has been discussed. Not much more than that but it DOES make sense, and I have been hoping it would happen for a decade or more. We'll see.

I do like this approach. I also like dropping to D2 or D3 and binging back the old ICC schools.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I do like this approach. I also like dropping to D2 or D3 and binging back the old ICC schools.

So you want small college basketball, eh?

 

[Sycamore Proud]

I could like with it for sure. There was some excellent hoops played in the Arena befoe going D1.

 

[treeman]

I could like with it for sure. There was some excellent hoops played in the Arena befoe going D1.

That was a different era though.

If you aren't D1 then you're a nobody these days...

 

[bent20]

Think it's time we stop worrying about the MAC schools joining the MVC so we can play Ball State every year and start hoping we can find a non-scholarship option for football that keeps us D1. We're not the only ones who'd benefit from a move to a second Pioneer League, or something like it. Maybe even join up with some Pioneer League schools to form a Midwest conference for non-scholarship schools. Build a new 3,000 seat stadium and be done with it.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Think it's time we stop worrying about the MAC schools joining the MVC so we can play Ball State every year and start hoping we can find a non-scholarship option for football that keeps us D1. We're not the only ones who'd benefit from a move to a second Pioneer League, or something like it. Maybe even join up with some Pioneer League schools to form a Midwest conference for non-scholarship schools. Build a new 3,000 seat stadium and be done with it.

You don't save any money moving to non-scholarship football. You lose money games, or rather, your money games become the $50k we pay Butler to come play us, for example. On top of that, you still have the coaching and expenses of running a football program and even though you're "non-scholarship" most of those kids in the Pioneer are on academic full rides. Additionally, because you are providing a male "opportunity" you still have to provide an female counterpart for Title IX requirements.

You either stay in your lane or drop football. There are no other suitable options for remaining at the Division I level.

Here was the PFL's non-con slate: http://www.pioneer-football.org/schedule/default/2016/9/

 

[bent20]

Then let's drop football. The university needs to make a decision. If we're waiting to see how things shake out, how long are we going to wait?

 

[4Q_iu]

You don't save any money moving to non-scholarship football. You lose money games, or rather, your money games become the $50k we pay Butler to come play us, for example. On top of that, you still have the coaching and expenses of running a football program and even though you're "non-scholarship" most of those kids in the Pioneer are on academic full rides. Additionally, because you are providing a male "opportunity" you still have to provide an female counterpart for Title IX requirements.

You either stay in your lane or drop football. There are no other suitable options for remaining at the Division I level.

Here was the PFL's non-con slate: http://www.pioneer-football.org/schedule/default/2016/9/

The one true peer we have in the Pioneer is Morehead State as they are the only public school; the rest of the league are smallish, private colleges with (significantly) larger endowments (easier to cover academic scholies for 'athletic merit')

Institution	Location	Type	Endowment ( M )	Enrollment
Davidson College	Davidson, North Carolina	Private	$682.5	1,700
University of Dayton	Dayton, Ohio	Private	$500.4	7,426
University of San Diego	San Diego, California	Private	$395.6	4,904
Marist College	Poughkeepsie, New York	Private	$220.0	4,200
Stetson University	DeLand, Florida	Private	$207.8	2,200
Valparaiso University	Valparaiso, Indiana	Private	$204.0	2,917
Drake University	Des Moines, Iowa	Private	$196.0	3,164
Butler University	Indianapolis, Indiana	Private	$190.2	3,897
Campbell University	Buies Creek, North Carolina	Private	$124.6	9,471
Jacksonville University	Jacksonville, Florida	Private	$30.0	7,426
Morehead State University	Morehead, Kentucky	Public	$22.5	11,358
Indiana State University	Terre Haute, Indiana	Public	$56.5	13,584

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So... if Morehead State can 'afford' non-scholie football; is it possible that WE could? I've no idea but it's an interesting question to pose...

In 2016, Morehead St played James Madison (money game?), VMI (money game?) and Lincoln (PA) a Div II - HBCU...
the rest of their schedule was PFL games.

 

[4Q_iu]

That is the point. They have not solved this problem in at least the last 3 year. I don't see solutions coming in the future do you?

Solutions? To ISU-M's football attendance problems? Not only do I not know... I really don't care about their problems -- they had a role in creating the problem -- let them solve them or suffer the consequences.


The NCAA bears some of the responsibility; I seriously doubt they had the hard conversations with schools wanting to move from Div II to Div I, be it FCS or FBS.

The MAC's problems are systemic of all college athletic problems, be it in the 'Power 5,' 'Group of 5' or non-football schools.

 

[TwoMinuteDrill]

The one true peer we have in the Pioneer is Morehead State as they are the only public school; the rest of the league are smallish, private colleges with (significantly) larger endowments (easier to cover academic scholies for 'athletic merit')

Institution	Location	Type	Endowment ( M )	Enrollment
Davidson College	Davidson, North Carolina	Private	$682.5	1,700
University of Dayton	Dayton, Ohio	Private	$500.4	7,426
University of San Diego	San Diego, California	Private	$395.6	4,904
Marist College	Poughkeepsie, New York	Private	$220.0	4,200
Stetson University	DeLand, Florida	Private	$207.8	2,200
Valparaiso University	Valparaiso, Indiana	Private	$204.0	2,917
Drake University	Des Moines, Iowa	Private	$196.0	3,164
Butler University	Indianapolis, Indiana	Private	$190.2	3,897
Campbell University	Buies Creek, North Carolina	Private	$124.6	9,471
Jacksonville University	Jacksonville, Florida	Private	$30.0	7,426
Morehead State University	Morehead, Kentucky	Public	$22.5	11,358
Indiana State University	Terre Haute, Indiana	Public	$56.5	13,584

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So... if Morehead State can 'afford' non-scholie football; is it possible that WE could? I've no idea but it's an interesting question to pose...

In 2016, Morehead St played James Madison (money game?), VMI (money game?) and Lincoln (PA) a Div II - HBCU...
the rest of their schedule was PFL games.

FYI. This was a SP summary of Brian Hutchinson's (AD Morehead State) thoughts about Morehead going D1 non-scholarship during his interview at ISU.

http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread.php?35819-The-AD-job-has-been-officially-posted/page6

 

[Bally #50]

Staying 1-AA seems to make the most sense because these "money" games keep the athletic department from dropping deep in the hole. Those games make up for the drastic loss in gate sales in both football and hoops it would seem. The Tennessee game pay out has been stated all over the place but say it is $650K, take that chunk out of the budget (or what Louisville is paying in 2018), and Sherard has a huge hole to fill.

Not sure if there is ANY right decision here. I would say that the football "dilemma" is the biggest thing on Clink's plate and he's got more choices than at Golden Corral. Back to the original thought, the advent of my MVC/MAC would neutralize a lot of travel expense, bring back natural rivalries, and finally put us in an all-sports conference. That makes a ton of sense to me.

 

[4Q_iu]

...Back to the original thought, the advent of my MVC/MAC would neutralize a lot of travel expense, bring back natural rivalries, and finally put us in an all-sports conference. That makes a ton of sense to me...

The MAC seems to be FIRMLY committed to FBS, despite what common sense and their individuals bottom lines tell them... Not sure how the MAC handles bowl revenue disbursement but if WMU lands in the Cotton Bowl (a highly probable scenario) the MAC will have ~$8.5M+ to distribute...

They have 6 bowl eligible teams (Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Miami (OH), Ohio, Toledo, Western Michigan); with the lack of 80 (?!) LEGITIMATE bowl teams, I'm sure all MAC eligible teams will have bowl berths.

 

[Bally #50]

The MAC seems to be FIRMLY committed to FBS, despite what common sense and their individuals bottom lines tell them... Not sure how the MAC handles bowl revenue disbursement but if WMU lands in the Cotton Bowl (a highly probable scenario) the MAC will have ~$8.5M+ to distribute...

They have 6 bowl eligible teams (Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Miami (OH), Ohio, Toledo, Western Michigan); with the lack of 80 (?!) LEGITIMATE bowl teams, I'm sure all MAC eligible teams will have bowl berths.

No argument there but with the bottom half sucking air, what's to say the high level MAC schools don't step up and merge with some other FBS conference? After all, it is all about the money.