How do ISU fans define what they want in a BB program?

[Pacercolt99]

I have a question. How should ISU define a successful basketball program? Lansing was not bad, nor did he seem to inspire must hope to be much better. Lansing seemed to be liked by his players. He seemed to care for his players and they seemed to buy in. But what do fans want? Both Drake and Loyola have had bad streaks in their history but they’ve turned things around. Is it just about money? Why all the gloom and doom attitudes? Am I the only one hoping this turns out good and the new coach has success? Had a friend tell me once “Coaches, like preachers, come and go.” What is best in the long run? I remember a coach that took a team to the NCAA final game that ISU released. I am anxious to see what is to come with optimism. Things could be worse, Biden could be President. Oh.....wait.

 

[sycamorebacker]

Good question.

It's easy to want something and then pass the burden to get if for you off to someone else.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I have a question. How should ISU define a successful basketball program? Lansing was not bad, nor did he seem to inspire must hope to be much better. Lansing seemed to be liked by his players. He seemed to care for his players and they seemed to buy in. But what do fans want? Both Drake and Loyola have had bad streaks in their history but they’ve turned things around. Is it just about money? Why all the gloom and doom attitudes? Am I the only one hoping this turns out good and the new coach has success? Had a friend tell me once “Coaches, like preachers, come and go.” What is best in the long run? I remember a coach that took a team to the NCAA final game that ISU released. I am anxious to see what is to come with optimism.

This is a good question. Honestly, this is another one the beat writer should pose to both Curtis and Clink on the record.

 

[jben]

I think the following....but can be corrected.
1) Our fan base is not good. Too many in Terre Haute would sit at home and watch IU, Purdue, etc. on tv rather than see ISU in a great place to
watch basketball. Judging from local high school attendance, they don't care about them either.
2) For ISU students, ISU is seldom the school of first choice. They would rather be elsewhere. When I taught at ISU and asked my classes who
was going to the game tonight....1 or 2 of 30 was the usual #. (Note....this was during the David Moss era)
3) The budgetary woes are well documented.......no discussion needed.
4) Our ability to attract quality Indiana players seems to be lacking. Drake has 5 NW Indiana players. Is our reputation in the state
that bad????? And the Lansing fiasco didn't do us any favors.
5) Mr. Clinkscales needs to hit a home run in his next at bat...........I am not a "hater" with regard to him.
Just askin'........any thoughts?????
Thanx for your time

 

[4Q_iu]

I think the following....but can be corrected.
1) Our fan base is not good. Too many in Terre Haute would sit at home and watch IU, Purdue, etc. on tv rather than see ISU in a great place to
watch basketball. Judging from local high school attendance, they don't care about them either.
2) For ISU students, ISU is seldom the school of first choice. They would rather be elsewhere. When I taught at ISU and asked my classes who
was going to the game tonight....1 or 2 of 30 was the usual #. (Note....this was during the David Moss era)
3) The budgetary woes are well documented.......no discussion needed.
4) Our ability to attract quality Indiana players seems to be lacking. Drake has 5 NW Indiana players. Is our reputation in the state
that bad????? And the Lansing fiasco didn't do us any favors.
5) Mr. Clinkscales needs to hit a home run in his next at bat...........I am not a "hater" with regard to him.
Just askin'........any thoughts?????
Thanx for your time

I've heard these concerns, statements for years; none of them are new...

Looks like the 4 NW Indiana kids @ Drake are all JC-transfers, whole lotta them across the country but it makes one wonder

 

[Pacercolt99]

I’d like to know how fans describe success too. I’m going to follow ISU to my grave. I have since 1967.

I think the following....but can be corrected.
1) Our fan base is not good. Too many in Terre Haute would sit at home and watch IU, Purdue, etc. on tv rather than see ISU in a great place to
watch basketball. Judging from local high school attendance, they don't care about them either.
2) For ISU students, ISU is seldom the school of first choice. They would rather be elsewhere. When I taught at ISU and asked my classes who
was going to the game tonight....1 or 2 of 30 was the usual #. (Note....this was during the David Moss era)
3) The budgetary woes are well documented.......no discussion needed.
4) Our ability to attract quality Indiana players seems to be lacking. Drake has 5 NW Indiana players. Is our reputation in the state
that bad????? And the Lansing fiasco didn't do us any favors.
5) Mr. Clinkscales needs to hit a home run in his next at bat...........I am not a "hater" with regard to him.
Just askin'........any thoughts?????
Thanx for your time

1) Fans today will show if the team is winning. ESPN + probably gives us exposure, but has to hurt attendance as well.
2) Not sure about first choice. We have some top notch degrees. I would have never thought of that as a discussion point.
3) it is well known that Butler didn’t start winning again until they got lucky with a player and started pumping up their basketball money at the expense of their other athletic programs. The strategy worked for them. ISU didn’t take advantage of 1979 for sure.
4) i think we get good Indiana players sometimes. It would be nice to get more obviously. The MVC is not as respected in Indiana as much as it is nationwide. It is obviously dominated by the Big 10. Even Butler and ND do not have a lot of Indiana talent either.
5) I agree. I hope the new guy does well, whoever he is.

Other thought about players leaving. This decision is big for each player. I feel the ones already placing their names in the recruiting portal have done so too quickly. These are still relatively young men. They have an tie emotional to Coach. I feel the quick decision has become a voice of protest and not thinking about what is best for them. There is no guarantee any of them will find more success than if they would just stay. The team could be pretty good next year if they stay. That is a given. I’ve had bosses change and some were for the good and some were for the worse. But, things always worked out. I hope the players look at their big picture before succumbing to emotions.

 

[Pacercolt99]

I’d like to know how fans describe success too. I’m going to follow ISU to my grave. I have since 1967.

1) Fans today will show if the team is winning. ESPN + probably gives us exposure, but has to hurt attendance as well.
2) Not sure about first choice. We have some top notch degrees. I would have never thought of that as a discussion point.
3) it is well known that Butler didn’t start winning again until they got lucky with a player and started pumping up their basketball money at the expense of their other athletic programs. The strategy worked for them. ISU didn’t take advantage of 1979 for sure.
4) i think we get good Indiana players sometimes. It would be nice to get more obviously. The MVC is not as respected in Indiana as much as it is nationwide. It is obviously dominated by the Big 10. Even Butler and ND do not have a lot of Indiana talent either.
5) I agree. I hope the new guy does well, whoever he is.

Other thought about players leaving. This decision is big for each player. I feel the ones already placing their names in the recruiting portal have done so too quickly. These are still relatively young men. They have an tie emotional to Coach. I feel the quick decision has become a voice of protest and not thinking about what is best for them. There is no guarantee any of them will find more success than if they would just stay. The team could be pretty good next year if they stay. That is a given. I’ve had bosses change and some were for the good and some were for the worse. But, things always worked out. I hope the players look at their big picture before succumbing to emotions.

Have an emotional tie my point above should read. Sorry

 

[jben]

Thank you for your thoughts......

 

[DyedBlue]

Off the top of my head:
1. At least 80% of home games won they are ( an homage to YODA and Pacercolt99). Which means that the home fans are seeing something positive most of the time.
1.1 Don't soften the home schedule to get IU-like Cupcake wins. I don't want to spend time and money to see deplorable opposition on the floor. This is generally true already for ISU's schedule, but a new coach could easily campaign for multiple gimme games.
2. Minimal "bad' losses. No more than 1-2/season. I would say that this year ISU had one bad loss. In my opinion, that was the UNI loss when a 13 point second-half lead evaporated. The Valpo loss is in the gray area, but ISU rested Tyreke for strategic/health purposes so I am giving that one a pass. All other losses were competitive games against quality opponents generally on the road.
3. Win 35-40% or more of road games. Win at least 2 Valley road games/year. Don't ever lapse back into that dark valley of 44-45 consecutive road losses in the Valley.
3.1 Win at least 1 game in every "holiday" tournament entered. Never be the 0/3 team.
3.2 These three 'win/lose' categories would lead to at least 17 wins/normal 'minimal expectation" season. Not fantastic but not in the trenches either.
4. All the MUSTS: academic progress leading to graduation for those staying 4 years, minimal transfer out turnover, a scholar-athlete representative or two in the MVC each year, limited strategic use of JC players, very infrequent legal hassles, no drug issues, and a coach who has time for fans and engages them as adults in conversation. Probably are some others that are not coming to mind.
5. NET ranking always in the top 1/3 and reaching top 50 or better on occasion. This top 50 is currently a 'stretch goal'.
6. Don't cave to the Power 5 and give them 2 for 1.
7. Find a way to schedule more A10 and AAC opponents. Should be more successful getting home & home deals.
8. An athletic department leadership that develops and leads a campaign to restructure the NCAA tournament to make it more equitable leading to a greater distribution of talent.
9 I wanted to put something on the list about SOS; however, that can fluctuate so much based on the quality of the conference opponents, that I just cannot come up with a fair number.

 

[ISUCC]

Heck, my wishes for a successful program are very simple, I just want to be able to not have my only goal heading in to each season be to avoid playing on Thursday in St Louis, because that's usually all I've wished for during the Lansing Era, avoid the play in game.

 

[jben]

Thanks for the feedback from Pacercolt99 and DyedBlue...good comments. To 4Q_iu......my bad on the 5 NW Indiana
kids at Drake.....I thought Penn, Wilkins and Murphy cam out h.s., not jc. Still good finds. Wilkins and Murphy came from
my old high school.....Merrillville.
None "hater" feedback always welcomed.

 

[4Q_iu]

Thanks for the feedback from Pacercolt99 and DyedBlue...good comments. To 4Q_iu......my bad on the 5 NW Indiana
kids at Drake.....I thought Penn, Wilkins and Murphy cam out h.s., not jc. Still good finds. Wilkins and Murphy came from
my old high school.....Merrillville.
None "hater" feedback always welcomed.

i was wondering how Drake had 4 kids from such small "area," I've no problem with using JC kids, provided they were there b/c of development or no offers vice crime and academics

The best team in ISU history was chock FULL of Transfers BUT if you know why (f**k you bill packer) it's not a big deal

Dick Landini was too consumed with packer's nonsense to understand

 

[rsperge]

We have to get the students more involved, along with the community
I know they keep talking about the budget, and we are last in the MVC,, just curious how our budget was during the Bird era? The old saying, "you get what you pay for." We should have a budget for mens BB, at least in the middle of the MVC.
Great selling point - a new renovated arena.
Hopefully we can keep our 2 bigs,, it must be very emotional and tough for them.

 

[4Q_iu]

We have to get the students more involved, along with the community
I know they keep talking about the budget, and we are last in the MVC,, just curious how our budget was during the Bird era? The old saying, "you get what you pay for." We should have a budget for mens BB, at least in the middle of the MVC.
Great selling point - a new renovated arena.
Hopefully we can keep our 2 bigs,, it must be very emotional and tough for them.

Budgets of the late 70s are hardly relative today as college sports has exploded exponentially... and I doubt there's ANY database to learn what the budget was at that time...

And if memory serves; while Title IX has been drafted and passed... the AIAW was still running women's sports, not the NCAA and there would have been a dramatic difference in budget amongst any institutions athletic department.

 

[Bluethunder]

Not get our door's blown off every year in St. Louis.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Not get our door's blown off every year in St. Louis.

Hope all the guys on the way out left the locker room code for the guys that end up suiting up.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

I'll bet we don't lose them all.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I'll bet we don't lose them all.

Certainly nobody that has some sense to them. There is going to be tremendous opportunity and playing time. We're going to have it in SPADES.

 

[Bluethunder]

If they do then our new coach will be recruiting like Mallory did when he first got here. Everyone was going to have a good chance to play and if you want to see the court as a freshman you have the best chance with us

 

[ISU02]

Success for me would be making the NCAA tournament more often than what was happening, and an occasional top 25 rank. With that said, I really think people undervalue what ISU already offers. I've never once regretted attending a FB or BB game. I've always enjoyed it, because I'm an alum, and it's my school. I wish I live closer I'd attend more often. I've seen a few University of Louisville BB games over the years with friends, and I've enjoyed the ones at Hulman Center way more. Games at the big schools are very artificial feeling. ISU offers authenticity for me. Obliviously I'm biased. Two of the best sports memories for me came from ISU away football games. Both under Trent Miles the one at Louisville the other at I.U. Both were loses, but in the case of the former, leading UofL at halftime while sitting among UofL fans on the 50 yard line wearing my ISU garb was the funniest fucking thing. Going toe to toe with I.U. in FB watching Sakir Bell tear it up was great. Both were loses, but victories in my book. My biggest regret during my time as a student was not attending the ISU I.U BB game in 01. Some times winning isn't everything, but the experience is priceless.