SycamoreinTexas
The All-American Level
I dont know much about him but that he coached here and won the titles at UCLA. I also hear that he cheated while at UCLA too. Can anyone tell me why people think he cheated out at UCLA? Thanks!
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John Wooden
- Thread starter SycamoreinTexas
- Start date
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Define cheated? What have you heard he did? What is your source?
Some sources
(incl some UCLA players) have inferred that Coach Wooden 'knew' about cash, cars, plane tickets, etc from a BIG UCLA booster by the name of Sam Gilbert.
Wooden has steadfastly denied any knowledge; the NCAA has never found any impropriaty during Wooden's tenure; though the 1980 Final Four / National Finalist finish was vacated (Wooden retired in 1975)
Is it true? At this point, who knows.
Why would the NCAA canonize Wooden but not someone like Phog Allen or Adolph Rupp?
I've no idea but until the NCAA releases/conducts an investigation (not likely 35 yrs+ after the fact)
Would it change my opinon of Coach Wooden? Highly unlikely; he is the consumate gentleman.
Where the rules the same then as now? Doubtful; so I guess I'd judge him by the rules of that era.
(incl some UCLA players) have inferred that Coach Wooden 'knew' about cash, cars, plane tickets, etc from a BIG UCLA booster by the name of Sam Gilbert.
Wooden has steadfastly denied any knowledge; the NCAA has never found any impropriaty during Wooden's tenure; though the 1980 Final Four / National Finalist finish was vacated (Wooden retired in 1975)
Is it true? At this point, who knows.
Why would the NCAA canonize Wooden but not someone like Phog Allen or Adolph Rupp?
I've no idea but until the NCAA releases/conducts an investigation (not likely 35 yrs+ after the fact)
Would it change my opinon of Coach Wooden? Highly unlikely; he is the consumate gentleman.
Where the rules the same then as now? Doubtful; so I guess I'd judge him by the rules of that era.
After further review...
I did some quick googles on Sam Gilbert; most of what I found was single source (though reportedly multiple times; very circular reporting) Apparently, the 'reporter' is/was very tight w/ Jerry Tarkanian and both he and Tark loathe Coach Wooden.
While NEVER a fan of Tark, I did admire his willingness to thumb his nose at the NCAA; I think he's quite possibly one of the sleaziest people to coach Div I ball and that IF I had the HC job at UNLV, I'd work like HELL to ensure people knew we were a Squeaky Clean program; did he bring a lot of flack on himself, yes. did he deserve a good portion of it, YES.
Did Gilbert take care of players at UCLA? Probably, Did Wooden know about it? Highly doubtful; he warned his players to stay away from Gilbert. Is what Gilbert did any worse than what Lu Meis and Max Gibson, et al did for Larry Bird here at State? Doubtful.
There's IS a reason why Coach Wooden is canonized; because he's a great, yet very humble man. Proud to call him an Indiana native and State alumnus.
I did some quick googles on Sam Gilbert; most of what I found was single source (though reportedly multiple times; very circular reporting) Apparently, the 'reporter' is/was very tight w/ Jerry Tarkanian and both he and Tark loathe Coach Wooden.
While NEVER a fan of Tark, I did admire his willingness to thumb his nose at the NCAA; I think he's quite possibly one of the sleaziest people to coach Div I ball and that IF I had the HC job at UNLV, I'd work like HELL to ensure people knew we were a Squeaky Clean program; did he bring a lot of flack on himself, yes. did he deserve a good portion of it, YES.
Did Gilbert take care of players at UCLA? Probably, Did Wooden know about it? Highly doubtful; he warned his players to stay away from Gilbert. Is what Gilbert did any worse than what Lu Meis and Max Gibson, et al did for Larry Bird here at State? Doubtful.
There's IS a reason why Coach Wooden is canonized; because he's a great, yet very humble man. Proud to call him an Indiana native and State alumnus.
SycamoreinTexas
The All-American Level
Thanks!
SydCamore
The Captain Level
This is an easy one............ John Wooden is a classy guy. PERIOD. He is a man of great faith and personal character. Coach Wooden is a great ambassador for the game of basketball and the NCAA. Personally, I don't think he knowingly cheated at any point in time.......
Phog Allen and Adolph Rupp were nothing like Coach Wooden..... They were jerks and a lot of people accused them of being racist........ Those aren't the type of people that the NCAA wanted to be the face of the NCAA.
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More of a rhetorical...
question; as in "IF he was dirty, why would they canonize him?" But he's not, nor has he ever been diry.
He still writes his wife (long deceased) a love letter every day; he still won't sleep on her side of the bed; his condo hasn't changed since she passed away.
Perhaps, RP needs to call Morgan Burke and work out a deal that starting in the 2010-11 season, State is the opening game in the Wooden Tradition; Purdue can play in the night cap. Coach Wooden has ties to 3 universities; Purdue, STATE and UCLA. I was a bit surprised that STATE named the HC Court after him but I'm glad that they are recognizing him. They need to do the same for the rest of our MBB Legends and sooner versus later; Klueh, Bird and all of the '79 team, Butch Wade, Jerry Newsom, Bob King, JS Williams, Dick Atha, etc.
Honestly, I know nothing about Allen; Rupp some but not a lot; though I do enjoy tweaking uk fans about uk being the 'model' for reform w/in NCAA regulations; they Sutton wasn't the only dirty coach in uk history; that it's a state tradition...
question; as in "IF he was dirty, why would they canonize him?" But he's not, nor has he ever been diry.
He still writes his wife (long deceased) a love letter every day; he still won't sleep on her side of the bed; his condo hasn't changed since she passed away.
Perhaps, RP needs to call Morgan Burke and work out a deal that starting in the 2010-11 season, State is the opening game in the Wooden Tradition; Purdue can play in the night cap. Coach Wooden has ties to 3 universities; Purdue, STATE and UCLA. I was a bit surprised that STATE named the HC Court after him but I'm glad that they are recognizing him. They need to do the same for the rest of our MBB Legends and sooner versus later; Klueh, Bird and all of the '79 team, Butch Wade, Jerry Newsom, Bob King, JS Williams, Dick Atha, etc.
Honestly, I know nothing about Allen; Rupp some but not a lot; though I do enjoy tweaking uk fans about uk being the 'model' for reform w/in NCAA regulations; they Sutton wasn't the only dirty coach in uk history; that it's a state tradition...
My opinion is that he probably knew what was going on, but in that era, "don't ask, don't tell" applied to college athletics and boosters. I doubt that he was too different in that respect than any other major college coach back then. In other ways, he was light years ahead of his collegues. He played black players at ISU, he stood for traditional values and always reminded his players that he was the coach, he was a good family man. All in all, a WONDERFUL representative of ISU. I'm thrilled they named the court after him.
Now, I love the idea about the Wooden Tradition. If we start winning consistently, I actually think that could happen. I also think ISU should start working on a Sycamore Museum in Hulman Center where people could learn about our storied teams of the past. That could be combined with a real clothing/souvenier shop, and be a hit!
:sycamores::sycamores::sycamores:
Now, I love the idea about the Wooden Tradition. If we start winning consistently, I actually think that could happen. I also think ISU should start working on a Sycamore Museum in Hulman Center where people could learn about our storied teams of the past. That could be combined with a real clothing/souvenier shop, and be a hit!
:sycamores::sycamores::sycamores:
Bob Evans
The Starter Level
I agree with SydCamore that Wooden was a man of great faith and character. His moral fiber would render the everyone-else-is-doing-it mentality irrelevant. It would not matter what the social norms of the day were, his barometer would have consisted of the simple what-is-right versus what-is-wrong. He would not have allowed any cheating of any kind. Choosing to believe Wooden or to believe Tarkanian or any of his ilk is an easy choice for me.
My favorite Wooden Story
Prior to his Jr (maybe Sr) season, Bill Walton arrived at a practice w/ a beard; Coach Wooden reminded him of the 'no facial hair' policy.
Walton gave him a huge spiel how it was HIS right as a human to have a beard, civil rights for all, yadda, yadda, yadda...
Coach Wooden agreed, "Yes, Bill, it certainly is your right to wear a beard. But, I'm the coach and it's my right to determine playing time as well as who is a member of the UCLA team... and while we may miss you, it's been nice having you as part of the team."
Walton shaved off the beard that day.
Prior to his Jr (maybe Sr) season, Bill Walton arrived at a practice w/ a beard; Coach Wooden reminded him of the 'no facial hair' policy.
Walton gave him a huge spiel how it was HIS right as a human to have a beard, civil rights for all, yadda, yadda, yadda...
Coach Wooden agreed, "Yes, Bill, it certainly is your right to wear a beard. But, I'm the coach and it's my right to determine playing time as well as who is a member of the UCLA team... and while we may miss you, it's been nice having you as part of the team."
Walton shaved off the beard that day.
I LOVE THAT STORY!!!! :headbang:
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Agree, agree -- Really hope that STATE improves the presentation of ALL State MBB successes; why they don't have ANY type of souvenir/clothing shop AT HC?! Especially since the bookstore has reduced hours/closed on weekends AND the new ISU Foundation office/B&N 'state of the art' bookstore is still on the drawing board...
Shoot, for now, toss up some peg boards and have the gear in cardboard boxes like concerts -- SURELY there's $$ in the budget for something that low tech for the season...
Git yer done RP!
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dr. bucket
Guest
here's another walton story:
“UCLA players were so well taken care of — far beyond the ground rules of the NCAA — that even players from poor backgrounds never left UCLA prematurely (for pro basketball) during John Wooden’s championship years,” Walton said. “If the UCLA teams of the late 1960s and early 1970s were subjected to the kind of scrutiny Jerry Tarkanian and his players have been, UCLA would probably have to forfeit about eight national championships and be on probation for the next 100 years.
“… The NCAA is working night and day trying to get Jerry, but no one from the NCAA ever questioned me during my four years at UCLA.”
say what you will but the man was there
“UCLA players were so well taken care of — far beyond the ground rules of the NCAA — that even players from poor backgrounds never left UCLA prematurely (for pro basketball) during John Wooden’s championship years,” Walton said. “If the UCLA teams of the late 1960s and early 1970s were subjected to the kind of scrutiny Jerry Tarkanian and his players have been, UCLA would probably have to forfeit about eight national championships and be on probation for the next 100 years.
“… The NCAA is working night and day trying to get Jerry, but no one from the NCAA ever questioned me during my four years at UCLA.”
say what you will but the man was there
There are several stories disputing this quote from Walton; most explain that Walton NEVER said it. Walton came from a middle-class background (believe his father was a dentist); not all players then OR now come from abject poverty.
BankShot
The Kleuh Level
ISU's 6'11" RICK DARNELL played against Walton & Swen Nater during the early 70's Summer's. During our trip to Daytona Beach over Spring Break in '73, Darnell expounded about Walton & his experimentation with various "new age" mind-expansion tools. Darnell was no saint. It was LIFE in LA back then. I'd be surprised if Walton could grasp 10% of his memories from that era.:krazy:
Doubt the NCAA...
tested for the ganja in the 60s and 70s
Plus, the ganja THEN was VASTLY different than the stuff on the street today
tested for the ganja in the 60s and 70s
Plus, the ganja THEN was VASTLY different than the stuff on the street today
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BankShot
The Kleuh Level
Not really...there were various hybrids even back then. Furthermore, when our military buddies came home on leave, we were able to access the best of SE Asia.
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True...
but some of the stuff on the street now is genetically altered; basically, uber-ganja.
It's defnitely not your 'daddy's ganja' :naughty:
but some of the stuff on the street now is genetically altered; basically, uber-ganja.
It's defnitely not your 'daddy's ganja' :naughty:
BankShot
The Kleuh Level
We had chemicals that did the same thing...the BRAIN & BODYcan only take so much "alteration!" The boyz today might think they've got a step on ol' grandpa...but TODAY v. the 60's & early 70's is NO COMPARISON. Thank God...
Did you ever read, "Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience" or "The Psychedelic Experience" by Dr. Timothy Leary? The latter publication occurred while Leary, et al were "experimenting" w/ LSD & other drugs at Harvard!
Needless to say, Leary's research grants dried up fast after the national media got hold of his "research."
Did you ever read, "Using LSD to Imprint the Tibetan-Buddhist Experience" or "The Psychedelic Experience" by Dr. Timothy Leary? The latter publication occurred while Leary, et al were "experimenting" w/ LSD & other drugs at Harvard!
Needless to say, Leary's research grants dried up fast after the national media got hold of his "research."
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D
dr. bucket
Guest
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