More Statues on Campus?

[treeman]

It's the offseason for all sports, so I figured it's a good time to bring up something that has been on my mind for a year or 2 now. We have been extremely fortunate at Indiana State to have some GIANTS in their respective athletic disciplines call ISU home and I'm not sure we do enough to honor/celebrate those individuals. Bird will always be the poster child for this university and rightfully so, and he has an amazing statue outside Hulman to show for it. Not only do statues honor individual achievements but they also bring beauty, history, and a sense of pride too campus. We have 3 individuals that IMO deserve to have a statue on campus: Kurt Thomas, Bruce Baumgartner, Holli Hyche. So I made up a poll on what you all think. You can vote for one or multiple individuals, I'm just trying to get a feel on what the sycamore community thinks of the idea.

Kurt Thomas - 5-time National Champion at ISU. 13-time All-American. Led ISU to 1977 Gymnastics National Championship. 1979 Nissen Award winner (equivalent to Heisman for Gymnastics), 1979 James E. Sullivan Award winner (best amateur athlete in US). 7-time medalist at World Championships (3 golds). 1976 team USA olympic member. Tied for American record of 6 metals earned at single World Championship (6. Simone Biles also won 6 in 2018). International Gymnastics Hall of Fame. USA Gymnastics Hall of Fame. ISU Hall of Fame. MVC Hall of Fame.

Others facts. Thomas was the favorite to win the 1980 Olympics. But USA boycotted the olympics held in Moscow. Later the olympic committee had strict amateurism rules at the time and Thomas was a professional, so he also missed the 1984 olympics. Missing 2 Olympics during the height of his career. Dude would of been a gold medalist for sure. The man also has 3 Gymnastics moves named after him. "Thomas Flair", "Thomas Salto", Thomas on High Bar". This man deserves a statue that people can see, touch, experience so his legacy never dies.

Holli Hyche - 7-time National Champion at ISU (Most by any sprinter in NCAA history). 10-time All-American. 2-time NCAA Track & Field Athlete of the Year. 2-Time Honda Award Recipient. 5-time Conference MVP. 14-time Conference Champion. 4-time IHSAA champion. At the time of her graduation she held the ISU and MVC records for the 55m, 60m, 100m, 200, 400m. Drake Relays Hall of Fame. MVC Hall of Fame. ISU Hall of Fame. Collegiate Hall of Fame. It would be real nice to have something outside of the current T&F facility to show one of the best sprinters in NCAA history called ISU home.

Bruce Baumgartner -1982 National Champion (44-0). 1980 & 1981 National Runner-up. Finished ISU career with a 134-12 record. 1995 James E. Sullivan Award winner (Best amateur athlete in US). 4-time Olympic medalist (2 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze). 9-time World Championship medalist (3 gold, 3 silver, 3 bronze.) 1986 goodwill games gold medalist. 1981 summer universiade gold medalist. 11-time World Cup medalist (7 gold, 4 silver). 4-time Pan-American games medalist (3 gold, 1 silver). 3 time Pan-American championships medalist (3 gold). ISU Hall of Fame. MVC Hall of Fame, U.S. Olympic Hall of Fame, National Wrestling Hall of Fame (distinguished member), International Wrestling Federation Hall of Fame.

Other - Considered one of the best American wrestlers of all-time. Won 13 Olympic or World medals; the most by any American wrestler. Current president of USA wrestling.

 

[4Q_iu]

It's the offseason for all sports, so I figured it's a good time to bring up something that has been on my mind for a year or 2 now. We have been extremely fortunate at Indiana State to have some GIANTS in their respective athletic disciplines call ISU home and I'm not sure we do enough to honor/celebrate those individuals. Bird will always be the poster child for this university and rightfully so, and he has an amazing statue outside Hulman to show for it. Not only do statues honor individual achievements but they also bring beauty, history, and a sense of pride too campus. We have 3 individuals that IMO deserve to have a statue on campus: Kurt Thomas, Bruce Baumgartner, Holli Hyche. So I made up a poll on what you all think. You can vote for one or multiple individuals, I'm just trying to get a feel on what the sycamore community thinks of the idea.

Kurt Thomas - 5-time National Champion at ISU. 13-time All-American. Led ISU to 1977 Gymnastics National Championship. 1979 Nissen Award winner (equivalent to Heisman for Gymnastics), 1979 James E. Sullivan Award winner (best amateur athlete in US). 7-time medalist at World Championships (3 golds). 1976 team USA olympic member. Tied for American record of 6 metals earned at single World Championship (6. Simone Biles also won 6 in 2018). International Gymnastics Hall of Fame. USA Gymnastics Hall of Fame. ISU Hall of Fame. MVC Hall of Fame.

Others facts. Thomas was the favorite to win the 1980 Olympics. But USA boycotted the olympics held in Moscow. Later the olympic committee had strict amateurism rules at the time and Thomas was a professional, so he also missed the 1984 olympics. Missing 2 Olympics during the height of his career. Dude would of been a gold medalist for sure. The man also has 3 Gymnastics moves named after him. "Thomas Flair", "Thomas Salto", Thomas on High Bar". This man deserves a statue that people can see, touch, experience so his legacy never dies.

Holli Hyche - 7-time National Champion at ISU (Most by any sprinter in NCAA history). 10-time All-American. 2-time NCAA Track & Field Athlete of the Year. 2-Time Honda Award Recipient. 5-time Conference MVP. 14-time Conference Champion. 4-time IHSAA champion. At the time of her graduation she held the ISU and MVC records for the 55m, 60m, 100m, 200, 400m. Drake Relays Hall of Fame. MVC Hall of Fame. ISU Hall of Fame. Collegiate Hall of Fame. It would be real nice to have something outside of the current T&F facility to show one of the best sprinters in NCAA history called ISU home.

Bruce Baumgartner -1982 National Champion (44-0). 1980 & 1981 National Runner-up. Finished ISU career with a 134-12 record. 1995 James E. Sullivan Award winner (Best amateur athlete in US). 4-time Olympic medalist (2 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze). 9-time World Championship medalist (3 gold, 3 silver, 3 bronze.) 1986 goodwill games gold medalist. 1981 summer universiade gold medalist. 11-time World Cup medalist (7 gold, 4 silver). 4-time Pan-American games medalist (3 gold, 1 silver). 3 time Pan-American championships medalist (3 gold). ISU Hall of Fame. MVC Hall of Fame, U.S. Olympic Hall of Fame, National Wrestling Hall of Fame (distinguished member), International Wrestling Federation Hall of Fame.

Other - Considered one of the best American wrestlers of all-time. Won 13 Olympic or World medals; the most by any American wrestler. Current president of USA wrestling.

In order:

Baumgartner, then Thomas -- their international careers are outstanding.

Hyche? Phenom intercollegiate career - I'm still looking for her international career.

 

[treeman]

In order:

Baumgartner, then Thomas -- their international careers are outstanding.

Hyche? Phenom intercollegiate career - I'm still looking for her international career.

I'd personally go with Thomas, Baumgartner, then Hyche in that order. But all 3 are absolutely deserving and think it would be nice if any of them got a statue erected. Take away the 1977 team National Championship and I would put Hyche's accomplishments ahead of Thomas while in an ISU uniform. But a team national title is a rather large trump card for me so Kurt get's the nod there. Unfortunately, Hyche didn't do too much (2x olympic trial qualifier) after her ISU days so her legacy doesn't have the 10+ years of accomplishments to build on.

Not sure many ISU alumni or current students know we had a wrestling or gymnastics team let alone a national title and 2 of the best to ever do in the the USA. Would be a nice way to educate people on some of the history we have here.

 

[4Q_iu]

I'd personally go with Thomas, Baumgartner, then Hyche in that order. But all 3 are absolutely deserving and think it would be nice if any of them got a statue erected. Take away the 1977 team National Championship and I would put Hyche's accomplishments ahead of Thomas while in an ISU uniform. But a team national title is a rather large trump card for me so Kurt get's the nod there. Unfortunately, Hyche didn't do too much (2x olympic trial qualifier) after her ISU days so her legacy doesn't have the 10+ years of accomplishments to build on.

Not sure many ISU alumni or current students know we had a wrestling or gymnastics team let alone a national title and 2 of the best to ever do in the the USA. Would be a nice way to educate people on some of the history we have here.

Baumgartner's dominance in his sport for a decade plus earns him the next statue at ISU; even with three named moves, Thomas doesn't have the international creds that Baumgartner does.

Hyche... a distant third

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I’m not sure I’d advocate for a statue for anyone else. If we were to do one my vote would be Bruce - but I’m not sure it would be that meaningful for most. Statues are reserved for once in a lifetime talents imo

 

[treeman]

I’m not sure I’d advocate for a statue for anyone else. If we were to do one my vote would be Bruce - but I’m not sure it would be that meaningful for most. Statues are reserved for once in a lifetime talents imo

Tell me how Thomas and Baumgartner AREN'T once in a lifetime talent?

Would be interesting to see how Thomas' legacy would've played out if he would've been able to compete in the 1980 & 1984 olympics.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Tell me how Thomas and Baumgartner AREN'T once in a lifetime talent?

Would be interesting to see how Thomas' legacy would've played out if he would've been able to compete in the 1980 & 1984 olympics.

Let me rephrase - statues should be reserved for Basketball and Football players & coaches only. How is that? You can honor elites in other sports in a lot of other ways without commissioning an all out statue!!

I’m certainly not going to get in an argue that they aren’t once in a lifetime talents. In fact, I’m not even knowledgeable enough about either sport to make a case either way… But since I’ve been in this town for 37 years if they were that iconic you would hear a lot more about them in conversation than you do. And to my point above I think it’s less about them and what they accomplished and more about the fact that not only are they not primary sports if you will but they are sports we don’t even offer anymore.

 

[bent20]

I might go with the sprinter. With Bruce and Thomas it's not that they aren't deserving but doesn't it draw attention to the fact we don't have those sports anymore? Seems a little weird as a result.

 

[EvilleSycamore]

I think we need a Deb Curtis Statue? it can go outside of The Bob!

 

[treeman]

But since I’ve been in this town for 37 years if they were that iconic you would hear a lot more about them in conversation than you do. And to my point above I think it’s less about them and what they accomplished and more about the fact that not only are they not primary sports if you will but they are sports we don’t even offer anymore.

I almost think this is more of a reason to have a predominate statue(s) of them. If you are going on merit alone both of them deserve more than a 10"x20" picture in some hallway nobody in the public sees. Yes, neither one of them were in a mainstream sport but I don't think that disqualifies your accomplishments from going unnoticed. If Baumgartner went to a university in Iowa or Nebraska there would be a statue of him, why is going to Indiana State any different? We talk about how we f**** things up consistently or are "small time" thinking; wouldn't this qualify as one? Now don't get me wrong, they are not in the same stratosphere as Bird as far as pop culture, house hold name, etc. But we are damn spoiled to have LB as an alum. But one would think putting up a statue would bring more attention to them to where they do come up in conversation more or people are more familiar with what they have accomplished. I'm not saying put up a LB sized sculpture, but something more "life-sized" down by the arena with a nice plaque would be a nice addition.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I almost think this is more of a reason to have a predominate statue(s) of them. If you are going on merit alone both of them deserve more than a 10"x20" picture in some hallway nobody in the public sees. Yes, neither one of them were in a mainstream sport but I don't think that disqualifies your accomplishments from going unnoticed. If Baumgartner went to a university in Iowa or Nebraska there would be a statue of him, why is going to Indiana State any different? We talk about how we f**** things up consistently or are "small time" thinking; wouldn't this qualify as one? Now don't get me wrong, they are not in the same stratosphere as Bird as far as pop culture, house hold name, etc. But we are damn spoiled to have LB as an alum. But one would think putting up a statue would bring more attention to them to where they do come up in conversation more or people are more familiar with what they have accomplished. I'm not saying put up a LB sized sculpture, but something more "life-sized" down by the arena with a nice plaque would be a nice addition.

You’re a much more passionate “yes more statues” than I am passionate about “no more statues”. You win.

 

[sycamore tuff]

Bruce Baumgartner carried the Olympic torch into the stadium in Atlanta.

 

[Sycamorefan96]

I never realized that ISU had 15 athletes that won individual national championships. Gymnastics accounted for 13 of the 30 individual championships including a team national title in 1977 (we have a banner in HC for that now). Not sure why ISU would willingly drop a sport that was that successful.

Indiana State Sycamores - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[4Q_iu]

Let me rephrase - statues should be reserved for Basketball and Football players & coaches only. How is that? You can honor elites in other sports in a lot of other ways without commissioning an all out statue!!

I’m certainly not going to get in an argue that they aren’t once in a lifetime talents. In fact, I’m not even knowledgeable enough about either sport to make a case either way… But since I’ve been in this town for 37 years if they were that iconic you would hear a lot more about them in conversation than you do. And to my point above I think it’s less about them and what they accomplished and more about the fact that not only are they not primary sports if you will but they are sports we don’t even offer anymore.

So, if Don Mattingly signs his Tree scholie vice taking the MiLB $$ from the Yankees and has the same career with the Yankees, you DON'T think he'd be worthy of a statue @ The Bob?

And remember... ISU DOESN'T have a men's (or women's) gymnastics team or a wrestling team b/c ol' Dick Landini, et al wanted to keep the football team

 

[4Q_iu]

I never realized that ISU had 15 athletes that won individual national championships. Gymnastics accounted for 13 of the 30 individual championships including a team national title in 1977 (we have a banner in HC for that now). Not sure why ISU would willingly drop a sport that was that successful.

Indiana State Sycamores - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again - gymnastics and wrestling were sacrificed for FOOTBALL.

 

[4Q_iu]

Bruce Baumgartner carried the Olympic torch into the stadium in Atlanta.

Selected by his teammates, not USOC

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

So, if Don Mattingly signs his Tree scholie vice taking the MiLB $$ from the Yankees and has the same career with the Yankees, you DON'T think he'd be worthy of a statue @ The Bob?

And remember... ISU DOESN'T have a men's (or women's) gymnastics team or a wrestling team b/c ol' Dick Landini, et al wanted to keep the football team

Case-by-case. No he’d definitely be worthy of one - he’s celebrated and very well known nation wide.

If you were visiting Indiana State’s campus to attend an event any event - people seek out the Larry Bird statue. So I ask myself, would they even know or care to seek out Bruce or Kurt? A few maybe… The masses? Not a chance.

In track for instance only maybe a handful of names ever I would consider building a statue for: Michael Johnson, Usain Bolt, Edwin Moses, Alyson Felix, Carl Lewis, Jackie Joyner-Kerse attended Indiana State and ran track at Indiana State you’d build a statue.

I’d advocate for building a John McNichols statue before any of the others discussed… But even Coach I think some better naming opportunities exist. If they ever build a pedestrian bridge in Fairbanks Park from TH to West TH connecting the river bottom trails he’d probably appreciate “McNichols River Bridge or McNichols River Crossing” more than he would a statue. To my earlier point I think you can better honor these athletes than commission a statue.

 

[Bobbyk60]

Again - gymnastics and wrestling were sacrificed for FOOTBALL.

Sure it wasn’t because of Title XI?

 

[4Q_iu]

Sure it wasn’t because of Title XI?

Title XI? Are you referring to the Social Security Act? The Federal Shipbuilding Loan Program? The Bankruptcy Management System?

As the question was related to $$ and the swirling drain that is FCS football... you must mean the Bankruptcy Management System...

No, Wrestling, Gymnastics were dropped Spring/Summer of 1986 to continue to fund Div I-AA football.


https://www.tribstar.com/news/lifes...cle_27036245-3292-590e-a642-62e75a8dcaf4.html

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/dav...cle_b1519f20-8c7b-11ed-89a3-9b4591aa29b7.html

Mark Bennett, TH Trib-Star also mentioned Landini's decision in a piece on Kurt Thomas in 2020

https://www.tribstar.com/news/news_...cle_8c309c83-9c72-52b1-aaff-3ae8341fa1c6.html

Blame Title IX or XI or XXXVII but it was all for football.

 

[treeman]

I never realized that ISU had 15 athletes that won individual national championships. Gymnastics accounted for 13 of the 30 individual championships including a team national title in 1977 (we have a banner in HC for that now). Not sure why ISU would willingly drop a sport that was that successful.

Indiana State Sycamores - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah I kind of figured the 1977' National Championship team was Thomas and that's about it. Didn't realize ISU had 8 different individuals win a National Championship in gymnastics in the 60s-70s. Makes more sense why Thomas ended up here. Also didn't realize in 1973 and 1979 the mens team finished 3rd in the country and 1971 the women's team was National Runner-Up.