Terre Haute South's 3 point offense

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TH_Sycamore12

TH_Sycamore12

The Captain Level
A little has been said about Mike Saylor's offensive experiment in shooting the three. I've seen South use the three a lot, but are they might be relying on it a too much? Anyone have any insider info for us South fans/alums?
 

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Well they don't have anyone inside that is going to do anything - although I am yet to see them play I am somewhat familiar with the players on the team. They don't have bunch of guys that are going to be able to get to the hoop and create thus the chuck it strategy. Outside of having Jake Odum this is pretty much what they built last years team around - do they shoot the 3 ball to much? Heck yeah - can they live by the 3? Heck yeah - Will they die by the 3? Heck Yeah.... I can't imagine that you are going to win any games on the road in the MIC shooting that many 3pt shots. They are just not going to be able to shoot a high enough %.

At least the box scores are fun to look at in the morning... lol
 
Mike has implemented a system that works for his team. They do not have the horses to play a traditional style of game. I hear a lot of people bash him for the quick three, but I think it's very smart. I never hear anyone who coaches against South make fun of the system. It's always criticized those on the outside who've made their bones watching Dick Vitale or (for old guys) the Bob Knight Show (I miss that show...Bob berating Chuck after a poor performance!).

The system gives South a chance to beat the big boys. Coaching high school basketball is often about "making chicken salad out of 'non-chicken' parts." In other words you do the best with what you have. If Mike gets a couple big, mean post players, I'm sure you'll see him adjust his style to fit his talent. Until then...let them fly!
 
For what it's worth I really enjoy Dicky V, so I am not sure if that was a shot at one of the good people in all of sports or not... Nor do I have a problem with Coach Saylor as a Coach or as a person, granted I would do some things differently than him.

With the group of players he has I do think this is a pretty good system. As far as I can tell he gives about everyone the green light to shoot the rock. And that gives his guys the confidence they need to play at the level they are. I don't think anyone around here has ever made "fun" of Mike for the quick 3. We made fun of his "TORNADO" offence... Which was laughable at best... lol Let's put 3 players on the same side of the floor to set a pick and see if Jarvis can free himself. Have you ever in your life? Teach a kid to read a screen and how to come off a screen ready to shoot then you wouldn't need 3 guys setting the screen.
 
You guys basically hit the nail on the head. It is basically the same offense they had last year but Odum was the finisher inside. McGill can get to the basket but he's not as big as Odum so I would expect him to kick it out most of the time instead of finishing. I really do believe this gives them the best chance at winning.

I disagree that they won't be able to shoot a high enough percentage on the MIC road. They hit 40% at Lawrence North without Jarvis and Tanoos. Rebounding was the problem in that game. They will live and die by it that's for sure but they can beat some people if they have that one explosive night. I am impressed with the way Saylor changes his system to fit the personnel. He's changed his style 2-3 times in his time at South to fit what he has. I think that is a good trait for coaches to have.
 
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I think coach Saylor is a very creative mind. Another poster mentioned this earlier, but I will reemphasize it.....coach Saylor has always been one to fit the system to his personnel.....think about how much South's opponents have to prepare for this style....it is a style that nobody else they play uses....I can imagine it being a nightmare to try and figure out how you will play against them!
 

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Saylor is defintely unique. I guess if you can't get the big guys from overseas to go to TH South, then you have to create your own offense. I agree with Sycamore Fan, most coaches have to make make chicken salad without all the necessary parts. Unless you get transfers or foreign exchange students, it can be very difficult to win with your players alone.
 
I would think as a coach it would be much more rewarding to win with players that you have groomed coming up through the younger grades, but I guess not everyone looks at it that way. I know there are some school around the Wabash Valley who will take anyone and everyone just to gain an edge over their rivals.
 
Lights Out said:
Unless you get transfers or foreign exchange students, it can be very difficult to win with your players alone.
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Don't entirely agree with this logic... If the kids coming into your program have been taught how to play the game in middle school and even in elementary school then you should be able to win with your own players. Granted that's not something that many high school coaches can control. But I coach a 4th grade basketball team and I try and teach those kids things that they can expect to see in middle school so when they show up for 6th grade bball tryouts they are not surprised. They will be like "hey" I remember this and with any luck I will coach many of the same kids next year (5th grade) at the B&G Club.

I have seen some of the middle school coaches in this county and I can see why it would be difficult to win with your players alone. Because these kids are not taught what they need to know at a young age.
 
Shouldn't a head basketball coach have total control over his/her program from the elementary grades up through the high school? I would think that the head coach would instruct his middle school and elementary coaches to teach what he wants taught? And if this process is followed I would find it hard to watch a marginal kid who has worked his butt off come up through the program take a back seat to a kid who was recruited/moved in or was a foreign exchange student.
 
I think a coach should have total control of their team. I have seen some coaches around the Wabash Valley, that are not afraid to take a recruit or two.
 

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I would say in a perfect world that is something we would all like to see... But we don't live in a perfect world and that has never been the way that middle school programs are run in Vigo Co.
 
There are definitely schools in the Wabash Valley that you make sure you pick up a roster when you go watch them....because you never know who they got in the offseason.
 
jlandrus23 said:
THS relies on the 3 way too much, I saw a game where they put up 44 shots and 37 of them were 3's.
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And won the game, on the road, against a 4A school by 22 points after leading by as much as 30. It was actually 47 shots, 34 of them 3's. That's their offense and their best chance of winning this year and I think they are going to win several this year.
 

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FreeThrow said:
I think coach Saylor is a very creative mind. Another poster mentioned this earlier, but I will reemphasize it.....coach Saylor has always been one to fit the system to his personnel.....think about how much South's opponents have to prepare for this style....it is a style that nobody else they play uses....I can imagine it being a nightmare to try and figure out how you will play against them!
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Here is my problem with that, he keeps changing it....how do you build a program by changing it every 3 years? Remember when he tried running the Grennel (sp?) system of subbing 5 at a time every couple of minutes? You build a program from your summer youth camps and getting middle school AAU teams to run your stuff if they are coming to South. Lots of schools dont have a legit post player, they run 4 out 1 in, or even 5 out.

How much player development has he done with 6'6 Ike Worrell. The kid is a big kid who is athletic, why cant he play the post? Instead of standing at the 3 pt line. The time spent shooting 500 3pt shots in practice could be dealt with by developing a post. 6'7 Joey Etling is sitting on the bench. He cant be a defender and rebounder?

Im not saying its 100% wrong, just dont put me on the Mike Saylor is a genius wagon.
 
HoopMaster said:
Here is my problem with that, he keeps changing it....how do you build a program by changing it every 3 years? Remember when he tried running the Grennel (sp?) system of subbing 5 at a time every couple of minutes? You build a program from your summer youth camps and getting middle school AAU teams to run your stuff if they are coming to South. Lots of schools dont have a legit post player, they run 4 out 1 in, or even 5 out.

How much player development has he done with 6'6 Ike Worrell. The kid is a big kid who is athletic, why cant he play the post? Instead of standing at the 3 pt line. The time spent shooting 500 3pt shots in practice could be dealt with by developing a post. 6'7 Joey Etling is sitting on the bench. He cant be a defender and rebounder?

Im not saying its 100% wrong, just dont put me on the Mike Saylor is a genius wagon.
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Mike Saylor is not a genius but he is building a program. A program of shooters. A good coach has to adapt the system to fit the players. They tried the Grinnell system for a few games when they had a team that had no talent. Saylor has also been a coach at South when they had good big men like McGee and Evans(although he was a jump shooter) I'm sure that if THS had Oden, they would run some more traditional stuff.

Worrell has always been a jump shooter. Even in middle school. He is, btw, a very good shooter. Don't bring up Etling. He is a senior, who just transferred to South this year after not being able to play any minutes at North. He was 6'7" and played JV at North last year as a junior.

The days of fitting square pegs into round holes is over. You can't just throw 5 guys out there and run the flex offense in high school. At least at the 4A, MIC level. The teams are too big, too talented. Even THN who has 6'8" Justin Gant and 6'6" Thomas Anderson will be undersized in probably half their MIC games.
 
True Blue said:
Mike Saylor is not a genius but he is building a program. A program of shooters. A good coach has to adapt the system to fit the players. They tried the Grinnell system for a few games when they had a team that had no talent. Saylor has also been a coach at South when they had good big men like McGee and Evans(although he was a jump shooter) I'm sure that if THS had Oden, they would run some more traditional stuff.

Worrell has always been a jump shooter. Even in middle school. He is, btw, a very good shooter. Don't bring up Etling. He is a senior, who just transferred to South this year after not being able to play any minutes at North. He was 6'7" and played JV at North last year as a junior.

The days of fitting square pegs into round holes is over. You can't just throw 5 guys out there and run the flex offense in high school. At least at the 4A, MIC level. The teams are too big, too talented. Even THN who has 6'8" Justin Gant and 6'6" Thomas Anderson will be undersized in probably half their MIC games.
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Ok, so now it will be a program of shooters? Im fine with that, but stick with it then. Put on shooting clinics at Honey Creek and Sarah Scot.

Another point on Worrel, cant a 6'6' kid who is 230lbs also be a threat in the post?

What are Souths rebounding numbers vs opponents thus far? With taking alot of 3's there should be alot of long rebounds, that would help their lack of height on the court.

Im looking forward to the classic this year to see the contrast in styles...will Bloomfield try and hold it on South? The possibility of another North/Marshall game, even a South/West vigo.

Lastly, let me get one thing straight. I am not a South Hater, I root for all Vigo County teams. Im a graduate of North, but want to see all do well. I think West Vigo is on the right path wth Coach Boehler, Coach Woefle seems to be doing ok at North, and I want to see South be good, even in the years they dont have an All-star on their team.
 
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