Todd Golden hits the mark in TH Trib Star column today

[garyd63]

"Culture of College Athletics Has Gone Mad"

Go Here

Thank you for this bit of sanity, Todd. Good to hear it from someone who is a part of the sports establishment.

 

[sdjessie]

Gary ...thanks for the Post ... Todd ... thanks for writing this ... I am in wholehearted agreement about the death sentence ... not to punish the innocent but to take a step to change the culture ... the quote that I remember most from yesterday was from an ESPN reporter who has a son attending Penn State ... his son went down to watch a large TV to watch the CNN report ... however, before the broadcast of the report the TV was changed to a public access channel. And that is the current culture at Penn State ... and it MUST be changed

 

[Sackalot]

The whole thing is disgusting. The Board, the former president, former VP, and anyone else that was a part of it should be held responsible too. This is just disgusting and Todd is correct in his assertions. The moral compass is sadly lacking in this and many other situations within athletics. My hope is that not only the NCAA but the state legislature of Pennsylvania deal harshly with Penn State on this one. I almost left the Catholic Church when the unimaginable happened to so many young people, and it was even worse when it was learned that bishops and cardinals covered it up and moved priests around. This is no different to me...

 

[BankShot]

Would an NCAA mandate re: "forced retirement" after a prescribed # of yrs. help prevent such sports "empires" from developing a "win @ all costs" institutional mentality? IU's Knight & OSU's Woody Hayes are a couple other profiles that reached a similar "deity" status before they were finally "overthrown" after extensive winning years on campus.

 

[Sackalot]

but then what about Wooden? It goes both ways...I don't think the NCAA can mandate anything like that. This is going to be settled in courts (legal and public opinion). I wish the NCAA would do what they are supposed to do...they won't, but they should.

 

[garyd63]

Here's another view of the Penn State mess. It comes from a source I generally respect and takes a position I'm totally at odds with. (My take is posted in the comments section following the article.)

Against Abolishing Football at Penn State
Dave Zirin on
The Nation July 15, 2012 - 12:43 AM ET

Spare me. Spare me the calls to abolish Penn State’s football program in the wake of findings by former FBI Chief Louis Freeh that Coach Joe Paterno and other men in power hid the crimes of child rapist/assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky. Spare me the NCAA’s ominous warning that they “will determine whether any additional action is necessary on its part at the appropriate time.” Spare me the self-righteous rage of sports writers who spent decades burnishing the Paterno legend and now rush to tear it all down. . . .

Go Here

 

[4Q_iu]

but then what about Wooden? It goes both ways...I don't think the NCAA can mandate anything like that. This is going to be settled in courts (legal and public opinion). I wish the NCAA would do what they are supposed to do...they won't, but they should.

What do you mean "but then what about Wooden?" I've yet to read any proof that Wooden bent the rules, paid players, etc while at UCLA.

Hayes hit a player on NATIONAL TV, OSU had no choice; if it had been an OSU player, he probably STILL would've been fired.

The gloomington sphincter abused his OWN players (incl son) multiple times on tv and they still wouldn't fire him.


Hayes and the Sphincter of Gloomington are vastly different than Wooden...

Only knight had built an 'empire' of enablers around him ala Paterno and Sandusky

 

[Bally #50]

but then what about Wooden? It goes both ways...I don't think the NCAA can mandate anything like that. This is going to be settled in courts (legal and public opinion). I wish the NCAA would do what they are supposed to do...they won't, but they should.

Sack, other than being a staunch and stern disciplinarian, Coach Wooden's body of work, as far as I have ever been aware, was pretty clean and sterile. He certainly did NOT have any incident even remotely near to what Coaches Hayes and Knight did. Since the NCAA never penalized his teams while he was there, that reference remains a mystery to me. Please elaborate.

 

[Sycamore Proud]

Would an NCAA mandate re: "forced retirement" after a prescribed # of yrs. help prevent such sports "empires" from developing a "win @ all costs" institutional mentality? IU's Knight & OSU's Woody Hayes are a couple other profiles that reached a similar "deity" status before they were finally "overthrown" after extensive winning years on campus.

All of them, Wooden included, might have come under "forced retirement". It has nothing to do with the quality of the program, but with age and experience. At least that's how I read it.

 

[Sackalot]

Umm...you guys are missing my point. Wooden was an amazing coach with a very long career. He became UCLA during this time there. If you imposed mandatory retirement, Wooden would not have been able to do what he did and do it right. My point is, you can't just arbitrarily make a blanket rule stating that a coach can't be there for "X" amount of time. That is just not right. What you can do, is have administrators that have balls. Balls to do what is right and balls to stand up to idiot alumni and idiot coaches. Any institution, whether it is a school, a business or an organization is never too big to fail, in my estimation. Wooden is an example of how to do it was my point and if you created a rule that said a coach can't be there after his 60th birthday or something like that...well you break many laws, you violate all kinds of equal rights clauses, etc. That was my point.

 

[BankShot]

...equal rights? Since when does someone have a "right" to coach or teach forever? It's "contract law," and can be shaped accordingly in their EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT.

BTW...Wooden lived in a different era. Look @ collegiate sports THEN v. NOW, and the economic spectrum of such influence upon the population as a whole (socio-psychology of winning)...Wooden's teams precluded ESPN, let alone private & conference-wide TV/radio/satellite coverage. Today, once the ball starts rolling, it's virtually impossible to stop as the euphoria evolves into mass hysteria, void of values-based decision making.

 

[Bally #50]

Umm...you guys are missing my point. Wooden was an amazing coach with a very long career. He became UCLA during this time there. If you imposed mandatory retirement, Wooden would not have been able to do what he did and do it right. My point is, you can't just arbitrarily make a blanket rule stating that a coach can't be there for "X" amount of time. That is just not right. What you can do, is have administrators that have balls. Balls to do what is right and balls to stand up to idiot alumni and idiot coaches. Any institution, whether it is a school, a business or an organization is never too big to fail, in my estimation. Wooden is an example of how to do it was my point and if you created a rule that said a coach can't be there after his 60th birthday or something like that...well you break many laws, you violate all kinds of equal rights clauses, etc. That was my point.

Thanks, that clears that up. I think a few of us misinterpreted your intent, for sure. Hope your summer's going well, Sack~

 

[BankShot]

Bally, aren't you FROM PA? What's your take on the Paterno "deity" thing...what tools can be implemented to prevent the creation of a "win at all cost" institutional mentality, when the COACH's image becomes such a powerful & influential force? Clearly, in-house controls WON'T WORK, as evidenced by the Penn State situation.

 

[Sackalot]

...equal rights? Since when does someone have a "right" to coach or teach forever? It's "contract law," and can be shaped accordingly in their EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT.

BTW...Wooden lived in a different era. Look @ collegiate sports THEN v. NOW, and the economic spectrum of such influence upon the population as a whole (socio-psychology of winning)...Wooden's teams precluded ESPN, let alone private & conference-wide TV/radio/satellite coverage. Today, once the ball starts rolling, it's virtually impossible to stop as the euphoria evolves into mass hysteria, void of values-based decision making.

That I can't argue with...I was only sayin' if you create requirements for coaches to retire at a certain age or for a prescribed amount of time...you are in a gray area. Besides, as a coach-I would never sign any agreement that prescribed the amount of time that I was able to coach.

 

[garyd63]

Yeah, right. Purdue had a mandatory retirement age for their Prez in place. What happened to it when the buddy boy trustees hired their Right hand MMM?

Meanwhile. . .

Nocera weighs in on the Happy Valley flood.

NYT July 16, 2012
Throw the Book at Penn State
By JOE NOCERA
You just can’t make up a coincidence like this.

On Thursday, the same day Louis Freeh, the former director of the F.B.I., issued his damning report about the cover-up of Jerry Sandusky’s sexual crimes by the Penn State hierarchy, the N.C.A.A. lowered the boom on — are you ready for this? — the California Institute of Technology.

One of the world’s great engineering schools, Caltech is never going to be mistaken for Penn State as an athletic force. With fewer than 1,000 undergraduates, it is a Division III school, which means, among other things, that it doesn’t grant athletic scholarships. Its basketball team ekes out about five wins a season, and its baseball team, according to The Times, has lost 227 games in a row. At Caltech, unlike your typical athletic powerhouse, “student-athletes” truly are students. . .

GO HERE

 

[Bally #50]

Bally, aren't you FROM PA? What's your take on the Paterno "deity" thing...what tools can be implemented to prevent the creation of a "win at all cost" institutional mentality, when the COACH's image becomes such a powerful & influential force? Clearly, in-house controls WON'T WORK, as evidenced by the Penn State situation.

BS, talk about being torn? This whole story is tearing people up in PA, believe me and I am no exception. I have looked up to Joe proudly since 1965, when I actually met him when he was recruiting my all-state fullback next door neighbor. After a lot of thought this week, I feel the statue MUST go. That hurts and it hurts a lot. But they have no choice in my opinion. I'd like NOT to believe the report but because of it, I have little sympathy at this point. It sucks. I was SO PROUD when Indiana State played Penn State, it was like a dream come true at the time. It still does not lessen that feeling but it has a totally different meaning for me now.

 

[BankShot]

C.I.T. can't afford to hire a Director of Compliance? They should have one of their students intern over @ Toadhop Tech (TT) to understand the difference between a PT & FT student:

1. A P/T student @ TT surfs the South Lake waves daily from 8 - 2:00 and studies the "Aerodynamics" of Throwing a Curve Ball from 3 -5:00;

2. A F/T student @ TT develops his undergrad thesis comparing the "Kinetic Energy of Frog Swimming v. 19 yr. Old Female Backstroke," hoping SOON to test his theory.

C.I.T. has LOST 227 baseball games in a row? Must be a slight degree of sports apathy present.:beat:

 

[4Q_iu]

Umm...you guys are missing my point. Wooden was an amazing coach with a very long career. He became UCLA during this time there. If you imposed mandatory retirement, Wooden would not have been able to do what he did and do it right. My point is, you can't just arbitrarily make a blanket rule stating that a coach can't be there for "X" amount of time. That is just not right. What you can do, is have administrators that have balls. Balls to do what is right and balls to stand up to idiot alumni and idiot coaches. Any institution, whether it is a school, a business or an organization is never too big to fail, in my estimation. Wooden is an example of how to do it was my point and if you created a rule that said a coach can't be there after his 60th birthday or something like that...well you break many laws, you violate all kinds of equal rights clauses, etc. That was my point.

Wooden retired at age 65, he said then that he personnally felt people should retire at age 65. The fact that a VERY PROMINENT booster (Wooden's words) congratulated him on the 1975 titles with the comment "Great win Coach, that makes up for last year." merely confirmed the idea that he'd made the RIGHT choice.

 

[4Q_iu]

Yeah, right. Purdue had a mandatory retirement age for their Prez in place. What happened to it when the buddy boy trustees hired their Right hand MMM?

Meanwhile. . .



GO HERE

That's not a west laffy retirement age, that a STATE OF INDIANA retirement age. Every/All state 'institution' have the opportunity to ask for a waiver to it; REF: SEE> Wells, Herman, gloomington reform school

That being said, still scratching my skull on west laffy hiring daniels

 

[garyd63]

That's not a west laffy retirement age, that a STATE OF INDIANA retirement age. Every/All state 'institution' have the opportunity to ask for a waiver to it; REF: SEE> Wells, Herman, gloomington reform school

That being said, still scratching my skull on west laffy hiring daniels

Thanks for that clarification, 4Q.