Butler Loses at Hinkle to DePaul - How Quick They Forget

[ISU_TREE_FAN]

Here is a post from the Butler board today. Are fans everywhere the same.......Probably?

"This program is in deep, deep trouble. We are now DePaul of the Big East. And we've all seen how tough it has been for them to try and climb from that basement in a great conference. We have no momentum at all. Add that to putrid recruiting and an inexperienced...quickly proving to be terrible coach-trouble.

I don't know what can help this freefall from happening but it's here. So, so much has gone against us this last 10 months. But knowing Butler, knowing what we've come to expect, I thought we could overcome it at least as much to not fall all the way down. Well, rock bottom is here and this isn't the Horizon League. Battling back from where we are in this conference...get used to the basement.

No point guard, no center, no coach. Cannot compete in solid conferences with these problems. And here's the kicker...look at the future, there is no fix in sight. Very troubling."

 

[Sycamore Proud]

So very, very sad.

 

[Bluethunder]

The grass isn't always greener,....

Do they not remember that they lost their best player before the start of the season? They should have expected a little trouble.

I am just amazed at how much they really, really seem to dislike the new coach. We are 15 or so games into his career and many of them think they should have gone outside the Butler family, gotten someone with experience, etc and are ready to dismiss the current coach tomorrow.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

The grass isn't always greener,....

Do they not remember that they lost their best player before the start of the season? They should have expected a little trouble.

I am just amazed at how much many of them really, really dislike the new coach. We are 15 or so games into his career and many of them think they should have gone outside the Butler family, gotten someone with experience, etc and are ready to dismiss the current coach tomorrow.

If their recruiting is bad it isn't for a lack of trying, either. I saw him and Michael Lewis at every AAU tournament event I went to.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

They won a lot of games because they had one of the best coaches in the country.

Not a lot going to comapre to Brad Stevens and the job he did at Butler.... He had good players/teams, but he put those kids in a position to win basketball games - tough for any coach to do!

Butler will be okay. But let's be honest, Butler waa a good mid major that won a lot of big games. But Butler wasn't Duke, heck Butler wasn't even Gonzaga.

The Zags set the standard for Midmajor recruiting long before Butler made it's Final 4 run.

FWIW Indiana State currently #6 in Mid Major polls.

 

[Chief_Quabachi]

May have bit off more than they can chew.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

I thought they were a better fit for the MVC, but I understand why they went Big East. Long term, though, I think the MVC and Butler would have had a nice, symbiotic relationship...

But seriously, DePaul? :roflmao:

 

[bent20]

There likely will be two or three dominant teams in that conference year after year (Villanova, Georgetown) and then everyone else will rotate from good years to bad years, similar to most power conferences. If Butler and Creighton fans aren't ready for that they have only themselves to blame. That's what happens when you move up. You won't be as dominant, you'll still make quite a few NCAA Tournaments because you get more attomatic bids, but you're going to have down years, below .500 years.

 

[BudDawgII]

There likely will be two or three dominant teams in that conference year after year (Villanova, Georgetown) and then everyone else will rotate from good years to bad years, similar to most power conferences. If Butler and Creighton fans aren't ready for that they have only themselves to blame. That's what happens when you move up. You won't be as dominant, you'll still make quite a few NCAA Tournaments because you get more attomatic bids, but you're going to have down years, below .500 years.

They had a letdown but they are still are pretty good team. Not sure they will be able to stay anywhere near the level they have been---few could---but they are still a pretty tough team. Not sure if we should be glad or sad that Butler and Creighton aren't in the MVC! Lets be honest and face it ---we would not be talking about being in the top two or three if they were. So probably helps us being in a weaker conference but near the top!

 

[IndyTreeFan]

They had a letdown but they are still are pretty good team. Not sure they will be able to stay anywhere near the level they have been---few could---but they are still a pretty tough team. Not sure if we should be glad or sad that Butler and Creighton aren't in the MVC! Lets be honest and face it ---we would not be talking about being in the top two or three if they were. So probably helps us being in a weaker conference but near the top!

I disagree completely. Even with Butler and Creighton, we'd be competing for a league title. Those two teams are not on a totally different level from us. We can beat both of them, just as we are capable of beating WSU. What's with the inferiority complex? They're not Duke...

 

[BudDawgII]

I disagree completely. Even with Butler and Creighton, we'd be competing for a league title. Those two teams are not on a totally different level from us. We can beat both of them, just as we are capable of beating WSU. What's with the inferiority complex? They're not Duke...

No inferiority complex ---but look at the overall strength of their schedules. If we play like we are capable of then I think we could but their experience at a higher level is still a difference maker until we prove we can knock off the big dogs!

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I disagree completely. Even with Butler and Creighton, we'd be competing for a league title. Those two teams are not on a totally different level from us. We can beat both of them, just as we are capable of beating WSU. What's with the inferiority complex? They're not Duke...

Let's not forget Creighton has a once in a generation/lifetime player in their program right now to boot.

 

[Bluethunder]

You never know what the future holds, but most likely, next year Creighton will be in the same situation that Butler is in this year (except Butler has the excuse of losing their best returning player this year, so they have some hope for next year).

I am actually more "Bullish" on Butler going forward than Creighton for two reasons,....more recent success and better location. Butler is so much closer to the rest of the conference, and is in prime recruiting territory, as opposed to Creighton who does not have a lot of homegrown, local talent and is way out on the fringe of their conference. A lot of kids who might be interested in playing for the Big East and who grow up watching the conference will do so in areas far removed from Nebraska. They may not want to be that far away from home when it comes time to select a school to play for.

 

[sycamorebacker]

There likely will be two or three dominant teams in that conference year after year (Villanova, Georgetown) and then everyone else will rotate from good years to bad years, similar to most power conferences. If Butler and Creighton fans aren't ready for that they have only themselves to blame. That's what happens when you move up. You won't be as dominant, you'll still make quite a few NCAA Tournaments because you get more attomatic bids, but you're going to have down years, below .500 years.

And Gtown seems to fizzle when they get to the NCAA tournament.

 

[Daveinth]

Let's not forget Creighton has a once in a generation/lifetime player in their program right now to boot.

Exactly once Dougie leaves they are shit and doomed to the bottom . He is the only reason they have been as competitive as they have been and after this year I could see them at the bottom . Lets face it they are in Omaha what quality Big East talent would want to play in Omaha ? I have said this since they left They thought they were to good for the MVC because of him and when that mid major talent has to play the teams of 5 Star recruits night in and night out they will struggle allot to the point where they will wish they never jumped ship. Doubt they will get the star treatment in the Big East.

 

[meistro]

Some times it's not bad to be the big fish in a small pond. I hope we continue to take advantage of Creighton being gone and consistently be in the top 3 in the conference.

 

[Southgrad07]

Some times it's not bad to be the big fish in a small pond. I hope we continue to take advantage of Creighton being gone and consistently be in the top 3 in the conference.

My thoughts exactly. Once Doug is gone they will sink back to the middle to lower half of that conference. They have a great fan base but they don't fit in with that conference. Its a good enough conference that they wont be able to win it (or be close consistently) but at the same time it wont be good enough that 8-8 conference teams get at large bids. That combined with the fact they are on a island geographically will make it very difficult for them to succeed in the big east. If I was recruiting against them in the Midwest at say a Northwestern, iowa, Minnesota, etc id sell hey your going to have to play half of your games on the east coast. Also your conference tourney is there. That is a big deal to a lot of kids. You could say hey they can recruit nationally better being in the big east, but id argue that most high major kids on the east coast or in the south want no part of going to Ohama, Nebraska to play at a ho hum big east school. I think long term they bit off more then they can chew

 

[bent20]

They had a letdown but they are still are pretty good team. Not sure they will be able to stay anywhere near the level they have been---few could---but they are still a pretty tough team. Not sure if we should be glad or sad that Butler and Creighton aren't in the MVC! Lets be honest and face it ---we would not be talking about being in the top two or three if they were. So probably helps us being in a weaker conference but near the top!

I don't feel like I have an inferiority complex either, but let's face it, you're right, as good as we are this year we'd be struggling to be middle of the pack in the Big East and the MVC would be stronger with Creighton and Butler in it (although not sure that would automatically be better for us as we have a chance to be a top team in the league now with a little more consistency in recruiting). All of that said, both Butler and Creighton will struggle a bit with their recruiting in the Big East. A down year or two and they won't be quite as a appealing. Their poster was right. Either one could easily become what DePaul is now, although I think there is a better chance both are among the teams that will rotate to the top every few years only to fall off once more. Not a terrible thing. That's the majority of the teams in the B10 and other conferences.