D1 vs D2

[Sycamorefan96]

Here's the numbers using current ISU sports. With the NIL and the crazy TV deals out there, I'm not sure remaining Division 1 is going to be sustainable long term. Maybe the big schools eventually split off, but maybe they won't either since they seem to get everything they want anyways. We've only won one NCAA Tournament game in FB and MBB (each) over the past 40+ years. Baseball is the only sport that people pay some attention to, that's done consistently well.

D1 Men's Total= ~100.3
D1 Women's Total= ~91
D1 Total= ~191.3

D2 Men's Total= ~67.6 (-32.7)
D2 Men's Total w/ D1 Baseball= ~69.3 (-31)
D2 Women's Total= ~61.2 (29.8)
D2 Total= ~128.8 (-62.5)
D2 Total w/ D1 Baseball= ~130.5 (-60.8)

ISU tuition according to a Google search:
In-state= $9,598
Out of State= $20,862
Average= $15,230

Scholarship Savings using Average by moving to D2 with D1 Baseball= $925,984

Ticket sales across all of our athletic departments was reportedly around $350,000 per school year. If that's correct, using FB and MBB #'s we give well over half of the tickets away.

Coaching salaries would be less (excluding baseball). I doubt NIL is really much of a thing at the D2 level. USI reportedly had to double their athletic budget to move from D2 to D1.

Per Sport:

Men's Basketball
D1= 13
D2= 9

Baseball
D1= 11.7
D2= 10 (We could remain D1 in baseball. See DBU.)

Men's Cross Country / Track
Both are 12.6

Football
D1 FCS= 63
D2= 36

Women's Basketball
D1= 15
D2= 10

Women's XC / Track
D1= 18
D2= 12.6

Women's Golf
D1= 6
D2= 5.4

Women's Soccer
D1= 14
D2= 9.9

Softball
D1= 12
D2= 7.2

Women's Swimming and Diving
D1= 14
D2= 8.1

Women's Volleyball
D1= 12
D2= 8

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I'm confused...

1. are you advocating for a move from D1 to D2?

2. just trying to make a reasonable case for where things could be headed?

3. and is Indiana State to blame or NCAA to blame?

4. If you say both are to blame like you are going to say... Wouldn't you say that you try and stay D1 at all costs?

 

[4Q_iu]

I'm confused...

1. are you advocating for a move from D1 to D2?

2. just trying to make a reasonable case for where things could be headed?

3. and is Indiana State to blame or NCAA to blame?

4. If you say both are to blame like you are going to say... Wouldn't you say that you try and stay D1 at all costs?

he's trying to build advocacy for ISU to become the DBU of Terre Haute

I don't see the fewer sports programs that are allowable under Div II.

If ISU wants to save money; shutter football tomorrow.

Add men's golf & soccer the next day; scholarship costs plummet, coaching staff costs plummet and ISU has a team in all MVC male sports.

Of course, ISU scholarships could still be one of 'mis-alignment' between male/female enrollment but stepping down to D2 is a non-starter.

IF ISU really wanted to save $$$, be bold and step down to Div III - but only if the HCAC will admit us on day 1.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

No. We should not sacrifice multiple storied programs to keep one non-revenue sport and a sport that is literally choking the life out of the athletics department.

This spreadsheet shows just how bad the football program is financially. This has nothing to do with our love of football or emotion surrounding the program, just the cold hard numbers. We've spent $1,000,951 per win since 2005 as we've spent $58 million dollars on the program and have a record of 58-135 to show for it. We could charge $100 per ticket and still would have lost $1.6m last year. Add your money game into that figure and you're still short well over $1m. There is no financial model that can be constructed to justify keeping football. Those numbers also included me swaying the figures to ISU's favor using 6 home games when most years we only have 5.

Would you and your dad keep your season tickets if they went from $50 per seat for the season to $500? $600? $1000?

The Sycamore Football Albatross

docs.google.com

This spreadsheet shows the Sycamore sports offerings and then shows a couple proposed configurations I came up with. The 2nd tab shows expenses, some savings on those models and then some commentary.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CQ-Gl2458YOv0mOFDYPmmV5kuz12_TTUszpiXDz3Uw4

 

[bluestreak]

BUT, this would mean you would have to give up your OVC dream

 

[Sycamorefan96]

I'm confused...

1. are you advocating for a move from D1 to D2?

2. just trying to make a reasonable case for where things could be headed?

3. and is Indiana State to blame or NCAA to blame?

4. If you say both are to blame like you are going to say... Wouldn't you say that you try and stay D1 at all costs?

Honestly I'd just like to eventually see a split in Division 1 basketball where we have 1A and 1AA like in football. The NIL nonsense is ruining college basketball for me. Whenever Edey up at Purdue is making a million a year in NIL money there's just no way mid majors will ever be able to compete with that. That's not even true college basketball. With the transfer portal the way it is we'll just be a farm system for the big boys.

Maybe my mindset is different than most. I'd just like to be able to go watch competitive college athletics, not minor league bull****. I really don't care what division our sports are anymore, as long as we're following that model. But personally I don't want ISU trying to keep up with the Jones's chasing some minor league fantasy. The Big Ten and SEC schools are about to get more money annually just from TV than our entire endowment.

 

[Sycamorefan96]

And yes I would rather see us drop down to Division 2 than drop football. Sure we could spend more on the basketball program, but what's it going to get us now? We could pay the coach more, but then when we recruit and you have Illinois offering the same kid $50K and a new car then we still won't be able to compete with that, and we lost a major American sport in the process of still not being able to compete. If we use the extra money on NIL, then we lose the coach to a school that can easily pay 4X the amount we can.

The whole thing is just getting ridiculous at this point. I'm honestly amazed that we are able to do as well as we do in basketball, but I don't believe for a second that we will ever be able to become nationally relevant on a somewhat consistent basis no matter what we do or what we drop. There's just too many obstacles for that to happen.

 

[sycamore_21]

And yes I would rather see us drop down to Division 2 than drop football. Sure we could spend more on the basketball program, but what's it going to get us now? We could pay the coach more, but then when we recruit and you have Illinois offering the same kid $50K and a new car then we still won't be able to compete with that, and we lost a major American sport in the process of still not being able to compete. If we use the extra money on NIL, then we lose the coach to a school that can easily pay 4X the amount we can.

The whole thing is just getting ridiculous at this point. I'm honestly amazed that we are able to do as well as we do in basketball, but I don't believe for a second that we will ever be able to become nationally relevant on a somewhat consistent basis no matter what we do or what we drop. There's just too many obstacles for that to happen.

To make everyone happy about football, let’s join that sprint football league that SMWC is in?? Everyone wins

 

[4Q_iu]

To make everyone happy about football, let’s join that sprint football league that SMWC is in?? Everyone wins

How is that more affordable than non-scholie in the Pioneer League?

 

[sycamore_21]

How is that more affordable than non-scholie in the Pioneer League?

It’s all irrelevant is the point

 

[4Q_iu]

It’s all irrelevant is the point

the football has historically been irrelevant, no?

 

[Bobbyk60]

And yes I would rather see us drop down to Division 2 than drop football. Sure we could spend more on the basketball program, but what's it going to get us now? We could pay the coach more, but then when we recruit and you have Illinois offering the same kid $50K and a new car then we still won't be able to compete with that, and we lost a major American sport in the process of still not being able to compete. If we use the extra money on NIL, then we lose the coach to a school that can easily pay 4X the amount we can.

The whole thing is just getting ridiculous at this point. I'm honestly amazed that we are able to do as well as we do in basketball, but I don't believe for a second that we will ever be able to become nationally relevant on a somewhat consistent basis no matter what we do or what we drop. There's just too many obstacles for that to happen.

Yes, this is pretty much what I have been saying by putting more money in basketball. NIL has changed all that. If our enrollment keeps declining, football will be First to go regardless if we want to keep it.

 

[swsycamore]

Since enrollment is plunging let's just shutter the school. That will answer all the sports questions and send Curtis on her way too.

 

[4Q_iu]

Since enrollment is plunging let's just shutter the school. That will answer all the sports questions and send Curtis on her way too.

Who are you? Lloyd Benjamin??