Yeah, this project is never gonna happen...
http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...a35-1ee6-5d43-a3f2-960b7a7142ab.html?mode=jqm
http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...a35-1ee6-5d43-a3f2-960b7a7142ab.html?mode=jqm
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Hulman Center renovation
- Thread starter IndyTreeFan
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Yep, agreed. Not sure who else they want to step forward? Wouldn't the Vigo County Convention and Visitor Bureau basically be the one marketing the space for conferences and what not? Is that a private entity not ran by Vigo County? If so, they must not think convention space is needed, no?
Maybe I am too optimistic but I still believe this will happen. The biggest problem is that the players (city, county, convention and visitors bureau, and ISU) have not met to go over any financial details. I want to be clear, this project needs to happen to continue the momentum we have in downtown Terre Haute. However, I do understand why the county put the brakes on at this time.
just to make this clear, they are trying to raise 32.5M correct? the state already said that they will pony up the other half.
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I am not sure if that figure is exactly what they are trying to raise, but yes that is what they are trying to do.
I think it needs to happen, but I am not sure if it is going to happen unless Indiana State wants to come up with funds outside of what has already been committed to this project by the state. I know some (ITF) don't really agree with me on that - but it is my stance at this time. Open to other voices on this topic as this is an important project for downtown Terre Haute and I would love to see it come to fruition.
ISU and Terre Haute cannot afford to watch this project go to the wayside and not happen. it's too big of an opportunity to let it slip through their fingers. Now I realize that this is an over simplification of how to raise money but if the the four identities: The City of Terre Haute, Convention and Visitors Bureau, ISU, and the County split the remaining cost, that is only a total of $8.125M needed to be raised by each organization. Shelling out $8.125M for a $75M Convention Center seems like a deal you can't pass up (one of the articles said it would be equivalent of a $115M Convention Center because they are using the Hulman Center shell). I'm sure that you could probably get creative with raising money too, why not ask area hotels, restaurants, bars, business's etc. as they will all benefit from the impact.
I realize that the above scenario is way to simple to work, but it does show just how close we are to getting something BIG in Terre Haute.
I realize that the above scenario is way to simple to work, but it does show just how close we are to getting something BIG in Terre Haute.
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Without diving into the need for Hulman to be renovated, it does. What / Where is the 'convention crowd' that will pay for this project? What kind of conventions are we talking about?
TwoMinuteDrill
The Sycamore Level
One idea is to add a 2% food and beverage tax. I don't think it would generate enough to pay principle but may offset interest on a bond.
As an outsider looking in Terre Haute needs this. This is too big of an opportunity to lose considering all the state funding. This is where you find out what kind of horse power your fund raising team has. If they cant pull this off, no way a football stadium is even considered. Then Terre Haute will continue to stagnate and lose ground to better and more progressive cities.
Meh... Not getting this done suggests we are less progressive and losing ground? Don't buy that on bit.
Everything else seems pretty accurate. This isn't a make or break project for the City/County. This might be a make or break project for the University as the Hulman Center is falling apart.
I really don't get where you think ISU needs to come up with more money, SSOM. Now I know you won't feel the need to discuss this, and the Good Lord knows I'm not trying to tell you anything, but I just don't get it. As I understand the deal (and it's possible I'm wrong), the State appropriated $37.5M to ISU for this project, contingent on local entities (i.e. the city, county, CVB, etc.) matching that amount. So, the $37.5M is ISU's contribution. Plus, you gotta take into consideration that ISU is supplying the land and the building in addition to half the cost. The State said, "we'll give you this money, ISU, so long as your local governments chip in an equal amount." At least that's what I've been told.
Personally, looking in from afar, this looks a lot like some local politicians trying to prove that they've got the bigger d--k and they're gonna show those people at ISU who the boss is in this relationship. One thing is for certain - this project is on life support, and it's chances are fading quickly. Local governments need to put up just a bit north of $1M per year over a 30 year period to make this work. Hotel and restaurant tax, local sales tax, special taxing district - all these should be looked at as a way to pay for this project. The failure to do so would be more typical Terre Haute small-minded bullshit.
But as a developer who pulled the plug on a beautiful downtown retail, commercial, and residential project about 35 years ago said, "If this city isn't willing to invest in itself, why would I want to invest in it?"
Personally, looking in from afar, this looks a lot like some local politicians trying to prove that they've got the bigger d--k and they're gonna show those people at ISU who the boss is in this relationship. One thing is for certain - this project is on life support, and it's chances are fading quickly. Local governments need to put up just a bit north of $1M per year over a 30 year period to make this work. Hotel and restaurant tax, local sales tax, special taxing district - all these should be looked at as a way to pay for this project. The failure to do so would be more typical Terre Haute small-minded bullshit.
But as a developer who pulled the plug on a beautiful downtown retail, commercial, and residential project about 35 years ago said, "If this city isn't willing to invest in itself, why would I want to invest in it?"
All I've said (on the record), is that this is not a make or break deal for the city or county - I refuse to believe it is.
I also have said, that for it to get done that the University is going to have to come up with more than the state goverment has commited. That is all I have said here and that is really all I plan on saying.
I don't want to point the finger, it's not necessary. Whatever the city and county have done to "avoid" investing in the past sure has seemed to pay off as downtown Terre Haute is thriving more than it ever has (in my lifetime don't get excited, I don't make mistakes). The only real reason that is the case, ISU finally invested in downtown - that was really what did all this. For me (maybe different than you), this isn't Terre Haute or Vigo Co. vs. ISU or visa versa and if you walk away from this with that attitude then you are right - nothing will ever get done in this city.
Not looking at this through that same set of eyes, not sorry.
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What about selling the naming rights to this "new" venue? I realize the Hulman's contributed millions for the initial construction, but this may be a way to generate some large, corporate funding. Of course, I would put out feelers to see how the Hulmans might respond to such an idea. You may find out they are all for it since it would benefit the city and county.
southernindianaballer
The Starter Level
My two cents... I'm not going to get too excited about it. I think it's just lazy politicians who will not move fast. They have not done much work yet, obviously in trying to connect the dots and find the funding... Once people get wind of them potentially sitting on this big opportunity - then the crap will hit the fan - they will have to do something.
On another note: Southwestern Indiana is booming. Convention Center, New Hotel, IU School of Med, politicians working to find money to invest in infrastructure, companies moving in. Funny thing though... A quality MBA program is non-existent. Well... USI (aka West Side High) offers an MBA if that's what you call it. ISU needs to offer a Pro MBA down here! Like they do in the Indy area. Get on it! LOL
On another note: Southwestern Indiana is booming. Convention Center, New Hotel, IU School of Med, politicians working to find money to invest in infrastructure, companies moving in. Funny thing though... A quality MBA program is non-existent. Well... USI (aka West Side High) offers an MBA if that's what you call it. ISU needs to offer a Pro MBA down here! Like they do in the Indy area. Get on it! LOL
I
You're not wrong about the state of Terre Haute (private investment) right now. But some of us have a longer view of history...
You're not wrong about the state of Terre Haute (private investment) right now. But some of us have a longer view of history...
Westbadenboy
The All-MVC Level
Read the tribstar article -- don't see it as negative at all. Doesn't mean Terre Haute won't once again stumble as is its history. But all the council really said was they weren't going to be the first to jump and commit millions. Not until they see what others are willing to do and also more details on the project.
Corp sponsorship is a great idea but why ignore the Hulmans -- they still have a stake in the city and the university as well as Hulman Center. And I'm betting they still have some big bucks.
It will take a combination of entities to get this done, but when someone steps up and offers over $30 million you'd better get fired up and get the matching funds.
Corp sponsorship is a great idea but why ignore the Hulmans -- they still have a stake in the city and the university as well as Hulman Center. And I'm betting they still have some big bucks.
It will take a combination of entities to get this done, but when someone steps up and offers over $30 million you'd better get fired up and get the matching funds.
Sorry, an IU School of Med is not a qualifier for "booming". To be clear we have had a rural IU School of Med campus here in Terre Haute on the campus of Union Hospital for some time. All-be-it a rural health school it is not nearly as large as some of the other satellite locations across the state. In case you were unaware, we happen to be surrounded by counties that are designated as rural so it is by design as many of the rural counties across the country have a shortage of physicans who practice in those communities.
And for the record Indiana State does offer an accredited (not all of them across the country are) MBA program, you can find more information here. http://www2.indstate.edu/business/mba/
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I'm not willing to let my age slant my view of history, I realize that much happened in this city before 1986. I try to be as well read on the history as possible so I don't speak out of both sides of my mouth. Admittedly I don't know everything when it comes to the history of Terre Haute or Indiana State. But having lived here my entire life and with my background I think I am knowledgeable enough to speak on the subject without my age being a factor.
My apologies. I shouldn't have come off so snide. I know your stance on this, and it's not wrong. Neither is mine. I just get frustrated when giant opportunities like this get passed by because of petty bickering. My hometown, and yours, is really good at that. Maybe they'll surprise me. But I swear, if they come out with "Phase I," I'm gonna scream!!! :viking:
Please forgive my negativity, it's been a long summer!
No apology needed - you know better than that, but thank you.
Several of my closest friends are grown adults with kids my age or maybe just a few years younger. At 29 (getting close to the big three O), I no longer feel a jab at my age is necessary. I am very respectful of those that came before me and what they have to share about the history of this great city and school. I take it all in and I put it in my memory bank.
All that being said, I probably come to the defense of the city/university so often that I make excuses for the both of them. I just don't think in this instance it does any good to jump to any conclusions. If it doesn't work out, is really anyones fault? I think it is shared blame if it doesn't get done. All parties should be able to come together and see the good in this to find a way to get something done. I am not willing to single out the city, county, Indiana State or the THCVB and say, "this is on you, why didn't you do more". Each party has a role in this outcome and at least for now I'm not willing to point the finger - not until we have more information.
After all, history or not - being negative toward one or the other aint going to get anything done. It's just going to spread the parties further and further apart. I've paid attention to history enough to know that.
The Univ. of Louisville plays football at Papa Johns stadium while the b-ball team plays at KFC arena.
Toyota has just announced plans to increase the size of their plant south of Terre Haute indicating they are doing very well. How about The Toyota Convention Hall at the Hulman Center? We keep the Hulman name intact.
I hope there are people at ISU, TH and Vigo County that are thinking outside the box and thinking collectively. e.g. When we wanted to install new lights at our baseball stadium, someone contacted George Steinbrenner of the Yankees and asked for a donation and he contributed a large sum toward that effort.
It only happened because someone wasn't afraid to ask. There's nothing worse than someone willing to donate, but didn't, because they were never asked.