I don't ever want to hear the GOAT conversation again

[Jason Svoboda]

I can never recall MJ phoning it in like this. I remember watching Larry with an arthritic back give the Celts 20 minutes still diving for balls and then having to lay out on the floor next to the bench because he couldn't sit and bend at the waist. Yes, LeBron is probably the most physically gifted player to ever play basketball. But I never want to see him be called the GOAT again. He has phoned it in this year and people are finally starting to take notice outside of a growing group of disgruntled Lakers fans.

Always blames everyone else. Not gracious in defeat. There was already an easy to be made argument head-to-head without calling this sort of thing into question. Done with the conversation. He is not and never will be the GOAT. On the Mount Rushmore, but he isn't MJ and Lakers fans are starting to say he is no Kobe.

 

[meistro]

Pretty much my exact sentiments Jason. I've seen that video several times now and it always makes me laugh. Michael and Larry also didn't hop from team to team begging other stars to come play with them, they made their teammates better.

 

[Southgrad07]

Yeah I hear people talk about Lebron being the greatest and I just shake my head. He is top 5 no doubt.. Probably the most physically gifted player for his era other than maybe Wilt. But GOAT? MJ hands down..And I absolutely hated Jordan growing up. He ripped the hearts out of my Pacers more times than I could count, but I respected him and his game..

Lebron? I found myself cringing at the flopping earlier in his career, the not 5/6/7 "decision" when he first left the Cavs, the way he basically forced the Cavs and Heat to sign every player HE wanted, even if it wasn't for the teams best long term interests. Look at what was left of each team when he departed?? Scraps..He'd ride a good situation until the franchise eventually ran out of assets to help him win in the moment..and then he'd bounce..And now the past few years he has completely quit playing defense and then wants to rip his own team about defensive efforts..Gotta lead by example boss.

The common arguments about MJ/Lebron that are easy to debunk are....

"Lebron didn't have enough help to win more titles"- Reality: He played with a far greater number of all stars in both number and accumulative appearances. The title teams he played on had multiple stars in their prime and especially the Miami teams had former good to great players as role players.

"Lebron beat a 73 win team, MJ never had to play against competition like that"- Reality: People forget that series was going to GS for game 5 with GS up 3-1..Green was suspended for that game and the warriors also lost their starting center to injury for the rest of the series in game 5..But even if you don't want to bring that up and give props for the magical 3 games him AND Kyrie put together to end that series?? Consider this- MJ didn't have to beat the Warriors because during his rein of dominance his team was the Warriors because he was on it..The other legends of his time Barkley, Miller, Ewing, Malone, Stockon, etc...They all have 0 rings.. Even the ones that do (Hakeem/Shaq) got them when he was retired or after he was gone...Not because they all weren't great, but because MJ didn't allow his team to lose. You think Dirk is getting a ring under Jordan's watch?? Hell no.. And if you truly believe Lebron has been playing against greater super teams his whole career...Answer this- Who was it that started the whole teaming up in your prime to get easy rings thing?? Hmmm..

"Lebron is going pass Jordan in most every career stat, so he's the GOAT"- Reality: Look at the points being scored today and the rules put in place to favor the offense...You can't hardly blow on a ball handler without a call and the offensive player can take take as many steps as needed to get an open look..Go back and look at the shots Jordan use to take..Can you imagine what taking one of those hits would do to Bron mentally? Not to mention he is going play in a greater amount of games to get those stats..

Also when it comes to awards for individual season's i'm pretty sure Jordan has like handfuls more scoring titles and defensive all NBA selections..So once again, when compared to ages they played in..Bron's accomplishments don't stack up.

End rant

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Everyone forgets that when Larry, Magic, and MJ played, the league was smaller. Therefore, the talent wasn't as diluted as it is today. The teams were better, top to bottom.

I've never, ever thought that Lebron was the greatest ever. That, in my humbly biased opinion, is Larry Bird. With Magic and MJ close behind. This video just shows why he's not the GOAT...

 

[Bluethunder]

I would take Kevin Durant over LBJ if I was starting a team right now.

LBJ is on the decline. I am actually enjoying this season as a Cavs fan more than recent years. Less drama, more guys playing hard and playing together. Winning will come and the franchise will be in better shape without him for the long run.

Good luck LA.

 

[bent20]

He went to LA after he couldn't recruit anyone to Cleveland and thought all these players would flock to LA. Instead, him being in LA seems to be keeping elite players from signing there. It's the perfect marriage of player and franchise. May they suck together for two to three more years when Lebron will finally retire.

I liked Lebron earlier in his career, but now he expects things to be handed to him.

As for the NBA, how about those no quit Pacers? I don't expect them to go far in the playoffs without Victor, but they're showing a lot of tenacity and it's fun to watch. Easy to cheer for and follow teams that don't quit, play hard and play smart. Nice to have a team to cheer for that demonstrates those qualities.

 

[niklz62]

Lebron is the GOAT

Heard it here first

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Lebron is the GOAT

Heard it here first

 

[niklz62]

My only argument Pro-Lebron is that we are comparing an incomplete career to careers that are complete. so i think he still has the potential to be the GOAT. I also dont think mailing in a game is the same as it was back in the day. I dont think the players back then are even close to the athletes now.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

My only argument Pro-Lebron is that we are comparing an incomplete career to careers that are complete. so i think he still has the potential to be the GOAT. I also dont think mailing in a game is the same as it was back in the day. I dont think the players back then are even close to the athletes now.

He going to find a time machine and rewrite his 3-6 Finals Record?

 

[niklz62]

He going to find a time machine and rewrite his 3-6 Finals Record?

probably not that or changing who owned the Cavs and drafted him or the Larry Bird salary cap rule

 

[Jason Svoboda]

probably not that or changing who owned the Cavs and drafted him or the Larry Bird salary cap rule

He is the GOAT, right?

Really shouldn't have ever needed anything else but one co-star/elite player, right? What years of his career did he not have one? I can think of several during the first stay in Cleveland but he's always had one, if not, two top 10 players at their positions beside him.

So if the GOAT can't win with 1-2 other elite players, is he really the GREATEST OF ALL TIME? Or is it more likely he is just an ALL TIME GREAT. Because there is a difference. I consider the Top 10-15 or even 25 at each position as guys that can be considered all time greats now that we've got over 70 years of hoops on the books.

 

[niklz62]

He is the GOAT, right?

Really shouldn't have ever needed anything else but one co-star/elite player, right? What years of his career did he not have one? I can think of several during the first stay in Cleveland but he's always had one, if not, two top 10 players at their positions beside him.

So if the GOAT can't win with 1-2 other elite players, is he really the GREATEST OF ALL TIME? Or is it more likely he is just an ALL TIME GREAT. Because there is a difference. I consider the Top 10-15 or even 25 at each position as guys that can be considered all time greats now that we've got over 70 years of hoops on the books.

I was thinking of the GOAT coach that 2 of the other GOAT players had for the majority of their finals wins.

 

[Sycamore624]

MJ is 6-0 in NBA Finals


Next argument?

 

[4Q_iu]

Bill Russell... 11-1 in NBA finals.

11 NBA titles, 9 titles as a player, 2 titles as a player & coach.

2 NCAA titles, 1 Olympic Gold Medal

2 California HS titles

and it did it ALL in Chuck Taylors

 

[Sycamore624]

Frank Isola
‏@TheFrankIsola

The Lakers lose and the conversation immediately shifts to whether LeBron should shut it down. With 18 games left! His five month vacation starts April 10th and now some in the media think he should get an 18-game head start? Come on.

 

[bent20]

James is officially past his prime. He'll turn 35 early next season. No stars are going to join him in LA. The media will still cover him like he and the Lakers are the main story, even though he's done and that franchise isn't going anywhere.

 

[niklz62]

James is officially past his prime. He'll turn 35 early next season. No stars are going to join him in LA. The media will still cover him like he and the Lakers are the main story, even though he's done and that franchise isn't going anywhere.

They might not be the best team or even close but him being on the Lakers makes them the main story

 

[Gotta Hav]

MJ is 6-0 in NBA Finals

Next argument?

And to put that in perspective, it took him 15 seasons to do that.

 

[Bluethunder]

James is officially past his prime. He'll turn 35 early next season. No stars are going to join him in LA. The media will still cover him like he and the Lakers are the main story, even though he's done and that franchise isn't going anywhere.

He has a lot of miles on that body of his. Been in the NBA since he was 18, numerous trips to the Finals which gave him more games to play and less of an off season to rest, US national team a few times. The man has played a lot of basketball and even though he takes very good care of his body, it is bound to start breaking down at some point.