ISU moving to performance-based faculty evaluation system

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This appears to be a step in the right direction. I do, however, have some concerns. It says nothing about retention of "contributing below expectations" staff nor does it say anything about a plan of improvement for these people. I wonder if that is just missing from the story or missing from the plan? My experience with peer evaluation has been positive, but there is always the chance that ethics issues could surface. I trust that this will be an ongoing process that can be tweaked if and when needed. I feel that this kind of evaluation system is long over due.

Thanks for posting this Jason. I had not seen it.
 
The only aspect that I don't like, and I didn't see it mentioned in the article, but have heard from a couple of faculty members, is that it is a forced ranking system. In this type of system you could have the five top minds in a field in the same department and by nature of the system, one of them will be marked as the "1" rank, or under performing member. Also you could have the worst department in the country in a field and only one would be marked as under performing. Your only goal is to not be the lowest marked man in your department. I think a system is good, but not this one maybe.
 
sycamore51 said:
The only aspect that I don't like, and I didn't see it mentioned in the article, but have heard from a couple of faculty members, is that it is a forced ranking system. In this type of system you could have the five top minds in a field in the same department and by nature of the system, one of them will be marked as the "1" rank, or under performing member. Also you could have the worst department in the country in a field and only one would be marked as under performing. Your only goal is to not be the lowest marked man in your department. I think a system is good, but not this one maybe.
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And this fosters competition, rather than cooperation, within the departments. Sad.
 
My thoughts are it is good in theory...but will it actually lead to positive outcomes? I do actually like the idea of competition in this area of the university, but if it being used as a "ranking' system as is suggested above that doesn't actually work as a competition very well. everyone in a department that is great should be able to be ranked above a "1" and everyone in a very poor performing dept. should be able to ranked as a 1. The competition should be across departments not within the department...I hope that makes sense.

I am sure this will have to be tweaked, but I think it is a fair and decent step toward improvment.

And of course they attempted an amendement that would allow them to still get paid with increases....that was funny. I would have done the same thing!
 

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I am all for having a quality rating scale for education faculty; I am a teacher myself and fully believe we needed evaluated and have a comparable rating scale across the board. But the fact that you must have a 1-whatever ranking of faculty is not good in my book. The evaluations will be subjective sense there is no real tangible way to evaluate an educator. It's not like they are all selling the same product and you can judge the profits.
 
sycamore51 said:
I am all for having a quality rating scale for education faculty; I am a teacher myself and fully believe we needed evaluated and have a comparable rating scale across the board. But the fact that you must have a 1-whatever ranking of faculty is not good in my book. The evaluations will be subjective sense there is no real tangible way to evaluate an educator. It's not like they are all selling the same product and you can judge the profits.
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sycamore51 is on the mark with this statement (see my emphasis added to his quoted post). Not only is education a magic mix of devilishly complex "products," it is a step toward a way of life and a cast of mind that asserts itself over the lifetime of true students. Most of the reforms (sic) in regard to education today are about one thing--getting the degree. That sheepskin may be a necessary enter here card into a career, but it doesn't embody what makes for an educated human being. Perhaps it's time to award every child a certificate stating s/he has been awarded a college degree at age 10. Then allow and encourage those who want to pursue a true education to do so. University administration by business model, the emphasis on education=product, the mad pursuit of hollow credentials, have undermined the true mission of the university. Faculty evaluations are an impossibility unless you send a wise and experienced scholar-teacher to sit in every classroom, of every course, for the entire year to judge and evaluate every teacher. These so-called evaluations are just another simplistic non-fix coming out of useless management workshops. They achieve nothing and demean what teacher-scholars are all about.
 
Performance based systems can be beneficial in a higher education setting no doubt. However it has no place for elementary or middle school level education. Try and victimize teachers who have little control on how kids are going to preform in the class room - kids performance in school at a young age is often times a direct reflection from his/her situation at home. So many kinds in this country coming from broken homes or homes of drug dealers - yet we want to hold teachers to a performance based system? You can't be serious, how are they supposed to educate kids that come from situations like this? Not they don't put forth the effort in trying to help them, just the end results are completely out of their control. My point being, learning at a young age HAS to extend beyond the classroom - it's an absolute must and you can't quantify that.

Any politician who pushes for a performance based system in anything other higher ed. has absolutely went rouge a la Obama and healthcare reform...
 
I agree with that...however, discipline has to be a piece that is addressed for younger students. Currently, if a child gets into trouble for bad behavior (bullying for example) they are given every excuse in the world...they have ADHD, they are bi-polar, they have this behavior related issue or they have that one, they come from a bad situation, they blah, blah, blah...

And when the child is taken to task for their own actions, the teacher is in the wrong everytime. It is BS!!! All of it is BS! Children must learn at a young age that they are responsible for their own actions and that bad behavior will not be tolerated...this is done through discipline. Plain and simple...address that issue and you address many of the other issues.

How many kids in hte 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s had behavioral issues and came from bad home situations, but because a teacher or administrator wouldn't accept that as an excuse for their behavior the student eventually thrived? Millions, but that is far less likely to happen today because teachers and administrators must accept excuses for fear of litigation, for fear of infringing on the students civil rights...it is a sad state of affairs in education right now and I strongly feel that the first and main issue is with discipline...address that and many, many of the other issues fall in line.

On a side note (nothing to do with this) Heritage Christian in Indy gave the ISTEP test 3 years ago before they had to change their cirriculum to fit with all schools. The school scored in the top 5% of all schools in the state. Then they switched to the required state cirriculum and the scores dropped considerably. I read a report that showed they were dropped to the 20% range...that is pretty important. Take discipline and strong expectations out of the classroom and see what happens?
 
Performance evaluations are a good thing. A mandatory ranking of faculty members seems a little stupid. If everyone is performing above expectations, they should all get the raise for that level of performance. It works in the real world every day. And while I get what Gary is saying about the vagaries of "teaching" versus most occupations (did I just say that?), to dismiss the idea of performance evaluation process out of hand is naive and points to a problem that permeates education at all levels - no one ever wants to change anything. Let's face it, most department heads, or school principals, can tell you who their best teachers are. If they can't, they need to be fired and replaced with someone who knows enough about education to make that assertion. That is the basis of performance evaluation. There are tweaks that can be added to it, but it could work.

I know of teachers that have been in my kids' schools who have been teaching for years and years, who continue to do innovative and exciting things for the students, who take a real, personal interest in the kids' learning. I also know teachers who have the same experience and education as the aforementioned teachers, but who simply show up and do as little as possible just to get to the end of each week. The travesty here? They make the same amount of money. The good teacher should be tangibly rewarded for going above and beyond. The bad teacher should not be rewarded because they don't do anything to improve the education their kids are getting. I don't have an education degree, but I can tell you with 100% certainty who the better teachers are. So could the building principal.

College professors, I think, would need to be evaluated in both classroom performance and scholarly research. But you can't tell me that a professor who drones on without ever looking up from the book deserves to be paid as well as the innovative professor who is always looking to improve the way in which he educates students. The system should be set up, once again, to reward those who are innovative and constantly trying to improve. Those who choose not to try so hard shouldn't get rewarded.

Now, you'll notice that I never mentioned test scores. That's a politician's method of determining how good someone is - it's easy, it's quick, and can be sold in 10-second soundbytes. It's also a fantasy to assert that you can tell how well a teacher does by looking at ISTEP scores. Face it, some people don't test well. Some people got shot at the night before. Some people got beat up by their mom's boyfriend. Some had it worse. That's no way to evaluate a teacher.

Performance evaluations, done by a competent, trained administrator (and if they try to play "good 'ol boy network" they should be immediately fired - accountability is the key) could really improve education. Give people tangible reasons to improve, and many times they will surprise you. Those that don't will at best make less money, and at worst will be fired.

Hope this wasn't too off topic. I got to rambling a bit...
 

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Sackalot has hit the nail squarely on the head. Tough love is needed at home and in the educational system.

Witholding or reducing some entitlements to apathetic parents might be a motivator for more interest and discipline on the home front.

Once again, this "Political Correctness" crap hinders society, IMHO.
 
IndyTreeFan said:
Now, you'll notice that I never mentioned test scores. That's a politician's method of determining how good someone is - it's easy, it's quick, and can be sold in 10-second soundbytes. It's also a fantasy to assert that you can tell how well a teacher does by looking at ISTEP scores. Face it, some people don't test well. Some people got shot at the night before. Some people got beat up by their mom's boyfriend. Some had it worse. That's no way to evaluate a teacher.
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If more people stayed away from attaching $$ to test scores, there would be a lot more civil dialog - especially from the k-12 teachers. Seriously, those teachers can only do so much with the time they have the kids. They NEED the support from home. They NEED someone to ask Johnny - "do you have any homework tonight?". It's not happening in a lot of cases.
 
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Eleven said:
If more people stayed away from attaching $$ to test scores, there would be a lot more civil dialog - especially from the k-12 teachers. Seriously, those teachers can only do so much with the time they have the kids. They NEED the support from home. They NEED someone to ask Johnny - "do you have any homework tonight?". It's not happening in a lot of cases.
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This is it ^ !
 
May Johnnys can't be trusted. Parents need to know about how much homework is expected each day and ask to SEE it.

But you are certainly right.
 

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Sycamore Proud said:
May Johnnys can't be trusted. Parents need to know about how much homework is expected each day and ask to SEE it.

But you are certainly right.
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Oh, I could go on and on with example after example..

(no scientific proof of any of these numbers...)
The problem isn't with 70% of the students.
The problem is with about 30% of all students.

Based on anecdotal (a LOT of it) evidence from my wife's school... I'd bet that 80% of those parents (the lower 30%) have ZERO involvement with their children's education. They absolutely feel that it is "public schools job - and only their job" to teach their children. Kids come to kindergarten or first grade with no knowledge of how a book works, no recognition of any letters, etc. You start from such a low base, that it takes forever to get anywhere.. and if they aren't getting that extra help at home, it is nearly impossible.
 
Another question

How do you evaluate a teacher who never, or very seldom is in the classroom teaching, but rather takes a trip to a far off place to study "bat droppings" and thier effect on female behavior, or some other lofty topic. Those who write a paper which is circulated amoung colleges, but have little or no impact to classroom application, if indeed it ever reaches a classroom.
 
bluebill said:
How do you evaluate a teacher who never, or very seldom is in the classroom teaching, but rather takes a trip to a far off place to study "bat droppings" and thier effect on female behavior, or some other lofty topic. Those who write a paper which is circulated amoung colleges, but have little or no impact to classroom application, if indeed it ever reaches a classroom.
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How dare you question the big buck academic programs? You should be ashamed of yourself!
 
How dare you question the big buck academic programs? You should be ashamed of yourself!
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Change the mission of the university from what it is, wiping out its role to investigate and find new knowledge through research, and your problem with bat droppings is solved. Just make our institutions of higher learning Employment Agencies with attached gyms and football fields, and all that primary, on the edge, new discovery stuff will totally evaporate. Feel good about this course?
 
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