ISU profs should face the realities

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i dont understand why its a problem for profs to voice thier angry towards the cutbacks. just like everyone else that has a job on campus, they just want to make sure that they will be ok job wise. they work just as hard as any other person on campus and this country.

if i got a phd and had to write a thesis that are as long as most college profs write i would want to take a sabatical a well. teachers and profs dont get paid enough if u ask me.
 
Teachers don't get paid enough. You hear that over and over. I come from a family of teachers and I know how hard they work and I respect them a great deal, but most of them are tenured and make more money than me, and I have a college degree, so excuse me if I don't have much sympathy for them.

When I was a student at South, we had three or four teachers who didn't teach. They might for about five to ten minutes at the start of class, but the rest of the time they'd BS with the students while supposedly letting us have study time.

Sabbaticals? Please, most professors get two to three months off in the summer, not to mention countless breaks during the year. Many don't even have to teach a class.
 
and many of these teachers have to have summer jobs to get by....anyways profs have alot on their table. most dont get summer off due to summer courses.

profs have more on their plate than just educating. many are advisors, board members, and club sponsors. they do most of their work not in their office and not even on campus. They have to write up new curriculums constantly and lesson plans. they also have to write letter of recomendations for students and proposals for grants.

ya there is always a few bad teachers out there, also there are bad police officers, gas station attendents, and factory workers. every job and profession there will be bad workers.

teaching is very difficult because it is so hard to motivate ages 18 and up everyday.

not to mention how much they owe for school. 7 to 10 years of school is not cheap
 
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There is no doubt that teachers in general are hard working but so are alot of other folks in this country. The problem comes from those folks that think that they are some how different that they shouldn't have to tighten their own belts and do like the rest of the working world in this economy. Everyday in the indy area you read how some school teacher unions are fussing about not getting a raise this year when alot of folks are losing jobs, hard to understand that thinking.
 
u can insert any profession in front of union and they will be asking for a raise, but thats a whole other topic.

why is it so bad to ask for a raise even in this economy. wouldnt the economy be a reason why one needs a raise to afford the cost of living. i rather have teachers getting paid what they want to keep them happy. A happy educator is a motivated educator that will make sure my kids get the education my tax dollars pay for.
 

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"getting paid what they WANT to keep them Happy", we all want. Thats the problem, we want more than we can afford. Gov't can't pay more than it can REASONABLY collect. Being fortunate that you have a job is a good thing right now.
 
I don't hear auto works screaming for raises, nor do I hears construction skilled trades folks asking for raises. No their all just happy to be working unlike so many of their friends.
 
I think that you have to make the distinction between tenure and tenure track faculty and teachers. There is a very distinct difference between those two things.

A teacher went to school for their bachelor's degree or teaching certificate and may well have also gotten their masters. A tenure track or tenured faculty member went beyond that, got their PhD and has had their dissertation, in most cases, published. There is a significant amount of difference between the two and I don't think you can argue both in the same arguement.

Teachers in every state are underpaid (for the most part). Sure some teachers are paid more than enough for what they do, but the reality is that teaching the youth (elementary school, grammar school, etc) is perhaps one of the most vitally important jobs in our country. If the youth are not taught then our country falls completely apart at the seems. I also come from a family of teachers and I can say this, most teachers work very hard to do what they can to meet the needs of young students, young students that are required by law to attend school. That is very important because teachers in the State of Indiana have the responsibility to make sure that every student they come into contact with is in some way educated. I have heard the arguements from the Teacher's Union in Indiana and it simply doesn't hold water. There arguements would be different if there was not a recession, but their is and everyone is suffering.

Now on to the faculty at ISU, Purdue, IU, etc. Yes most faculty work hard to "teach" their students. Most, but not all, have research requirements. Several go on sabatical for the purposes of that research. However, unlike elementary and secondary school teachers the faculty, in most cases, have some form of graduate assistant, teacher's assistant and/or research assistants (especially if they are in a research "centric" area such as the sciences.) They have a significant amount of assistance for the research they may be doing (of course some don't, but overall their is assistance available to them). I am sure most of you had a TA as your instructor in a course...not the actual faculty member themselves. Tenure Track and Tenured faculty have, from my perspective, the best of both worlds. They can research and study what they are passionate about, yet they do not have the grind of a 40 hour work week. Sure they may put in more hours than that, but it is studying a "hobby or something they are interested in" that they love or the study of their subject will eventually lead to monetary gain for them if they were to publish their findings in a textbook or book.
Most faculty at ISU work very hard, and most are not forced to teach summer courses. It is usually the case that the faculty desire to teach in the summer because they can make up to 30% of their base salary for teaching courses in the summer. So in other words is the faculty member had a base salary of $75,000 per year they could make an additional $22,500 in summer months if they teach a full load in the summer. In other words their base salary plus the summer would mean that they actually made $97,500 for the year.

IMO faculty don't realize how nice they have it. They might work outside the classroom, they might spend many "hours" working outside of "traditional" hours or work. But, unlike probably 75% of the working population that have assistance, they have support, they several breaks, etc. They have a great gig that anyone would love to have. In other words, you go tell the guy that just got laid off as the asst. plant manager somewhere that he could go back to school at ISU and start working on his PhD and could be tenure track within 2 years and be paid as well as most professors are, HE WILL JUMP AT THE CHANCE TO DO SO!!!! To go from a stress filled, high pressure, difficult, deadline centric job to a professorship....anyone would jump at that. I am not saying that faculty don't have the right to complain. But I have to agree with the letter...understand your audience and whom will hear what you are saying. There is a policital issue here and the faculty should realize that complaining publicly about doing what is perceived to be your job when well over 10% of the citizens of TH don't have a job...not a good idea at all!!!!!
 
JustAskin said:
I don't hear auto works screaming for raises, nor do I hears construction skilled trades folks asking for raises. No their all just happy to be working unlike so many of their friends.
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Administration at ISU has not had a raise for a while - and didn't receive one again this year.
 
egc1985 said:
u can insert any profession in front of union and they will be asking for a raise, but thats a whole other topic.

why is it so bad to ask for a raise even in this economy. wouldnt the economy be a reason why one needs a raise to afford the cost of living. i rather have teachers getting paid what they want to keep them happy. A happy educator is a motivated educator that will make sure my kids get the education my tax dollars pay for.
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But you are talking about two different things here. faculty vs. teachers...I agree with the teachers side of your argument but not for faculty
 

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I don't remember many teachers or professors investing a lot of time in motivating students. Once your in college or high school you're pretty well expected to handle that on your own because you know the consequences if you don't.
 
bent20 said:
I don't remember many teachers or professors investing a lot of time in motivating students. Once your in college or high school you're pretty well expected to handle that on your own because you know the consequences if you don't.
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That is the truth!!! I agree completely!!!
 
In ref. to not having raise in several years. As it is for so many! Go look at other professions that are doctorate in nature and you will see the same trend.
 
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I struggle with this one. As far as salaries for teachers in general, and specifically professors, I guess it depends on where you live and what school you are employed by. I know grade school teachers and Physical Education high school teachers that make over $100,000 per year, so I suppose college professors that are compensated at a lower level could be considered "underpaid". However, the benefits, including retirement benefits, are what set professors, teachers, and government workers apart. This is the area that needs to be "fixed" in my mind. I'm a decently compensated working stiff in a professional consulting environment, but my retirement benefits will pale in comparison to the "public sector" teachers and politicians. I would need to have about $3.5 million in retirement funds to match that phys ed teacher/coach that retired at 58. So, in that sense, I have very little sympathy for the professors/teachers. Also, there are very, very few paid sabbaticals anywhere in the private sector anymore, so I don't see the benefit of tax money paying for this in the public sector. College professors have always been a little prima donna-ish; my take is that they should be happy with the profession they have chosen, and happy to keep earning that retirement golden egg.
 
Raises shouldn't be given to motivate people, they should be given as a reward for hard work. I have no problem with those who are excelling at their craft getting raises, but having said that, I do have a problem with people who are paid with tax money getting raises when for the most part no one in the private sector is getting them.

So yes, teachers at public institutions, much like city officials, shouldn't be getting raises, thereby causing taxes to go up, when the rest of us aren't. Teachers shouldn't be getting raises when their colleagues are being laid off. It's okay though. Once the economy recovers they'll still be able to retire before most of us and afford that winter home in south Florida.
 
bent20 said:
Raises shouldn't be given to motivate people, they should be given as a reward for hard work. I have no problem with those who are excelling at their craft getting raises, but having said that, I do have a problem with people who are paid with tax money getting raises when for the most part no one in the private sector is getting them.

So yes, teachers at public institutions, much like city officials, shouldn't be getting raises, thereby causing taxes to go up, when the rest of us aren't. Teachers shouldn't be getting raises when their colleagues are being laid off. It's okay though. Once the economy recovers they'll still be able to retire before most of us and afford that winter home in south Florida.
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Agreed...but public institutions like ISU (with largest cut in appropriations due to the budget cut) are not causing our taxes to go up...the state has reacted to the lack of taxes by cutting the budgets because there isn't money there to give out. In other words, the talking heads in Indy realize that they can't raise taxes and therefore have to cut appropriations and the trickle down is what it appears faculty are complaining about. I basically said the same thing you did, just put it my own words. So...we agree! I am going to stop typing now~!
 
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