Loyola-Chicago joining MVC this week (Oakland to Horizon League)

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Sycamore Proud said:
Could be a good time to bring the MVFC and MVC together as one. I know that means trips to the Dakotas, but I believe it could be made to work and work well.
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Yes, because games with Western Illinois and South Dakota are really going to help fill Hulman Center.

The ONLY MVFC school I would even consider for full membership would be NDSU. Outside of them, go somewhere else to fill the holes. Murray State, perhaps? But get someone who will help the conference, not just some warm bodies to fill the numbers. I don't want to drop down to a "low-major" conference because we got crappy replacements for the elite teams that left. The MVC, without CU and WSU, will suck. Face it, deal with it, change it...
 

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Part of the "could be made to work" scenario could include expansion and dividing the Valley in 2 divisions to cut travel costs and build rivalries. I understand your concern, it's not out of line, but whatever the solution may be it won't be easy. And for what it's worth, I don't see Murray State putting more bodies in the seats than Western Illinois but I could see both of them in a divisional Valley.
 
Sycamore Proud said:
Could be a good time to bring the MVFC and MVC together as one. I know that means trips to the Dakotas, but I believe it could be made to work and work well.
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the reason this will NEVER happen is because it turns the MVC from a bus league into a flight league, and ISU, SIU, and ILS, UE, and others will never approve of that.
 
Well, I'm just ticked about the whole thing because the MVC is gonna SUCK without our two best teams. I hate them both, but if CU leaves, WSU will catch the first bus outta town, and this league will be about as interesting as, and only slightly better than, the SWAC. I don't know if we could really get anyone to come to the MVC who would do anything to raise the profile of the league.

I would love to add the likes of former members Cincy and Memphis, and let them play football wherever. Not gonna happen, but that's the kind of teams we ought to be looking for. Or at least dreaming of...
 
I think this is all a little premature. Oh and WSU is going no where they bring very little to any of the available leagues.
 
IndyTreeFan said:
Yes, because games with Western Illinois and South Dakota are really going to help fill Hulman Center.

The ONLY MVFC school I would even consider for full membership would be NDSU. Outside of them, go somewhere else to fill the holes. Murray State, perhaps? But get someone who will help the conference, not just some warm bodies to fill the numbers. I don't want to drop down to a "low-major" conference because we got crappy replacements for the elite teams that left. The MVC, without CU and WSU, will suck. Face it, deal with it, change it...
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Yeah, it will stink for everyone else to be on a level playing field where they, too, have a shot to win the conference and build their program's name and tradition. What will we do without Creighton to dominate the conference and flop in the NCAA tournament, or WSU, to dominate the conference and then completely fail in the conference tourney?
 

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bent20 said:
Yeah, it will stink for everyone else to be on a level playing field where they, too, have a shot to win the conference and build their program's name and tradition. What will we do without Creighton to dominate the conference and flop in the NCAA tournament, or WSU, to dominate the conference and then completely fail in the conference tourney?
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That's the same thing as saying we should "dumb down" schools because some people are smarter than others. It doesn't build your brand to win the Summit League, but it does to win the MVC. All this "level playing field" talk is crap. I don't want to win a watered down MVC because if that's what we want, why not just move to the OVC where we have a more "level playing field"?

Yeah, winning a crap conference is so much better...this is typical ISU thinking...
 
IndyTreeFan said:
That's the same thing as saying we should "dumb down" schools because some people are smarter than others. It doesn't build your brand to win the Summit League, but it does to win the MVC. All this "level playing field" talk is crap. I don't want to win a watered down MVC because if that's what we want, why not just move to the OVC where we have a more "level playing field"?

Yeah, winning a crap conference is so much better...this is typical ISU thinking...
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Here is where I'll strongly disagree. McDermott makes $1m at Creighton and Lansing makes $170k. They are able to also pay their assistant coaches significantly more. Further, they have a recruiting budget that is 5x plus what we have. Then you also throw in the cash they have to buy games. They are are on completely different playing field financially.
 
IndyTreeFan said:
Yes, because games with Western Illinois and South Dakota are really going to help fill Hulman Center.

The ONLY MVFC school I would even consider for full membership would be NDSU. Outside of them, go somewhere else to fill the holes. Murray State, perhaps? But get someone who will help the conference, not just some warm bodies to fill the numbers. I don't want to drop down to a "low-major" conference because we got crappy replacements for the elite teams that left. The MVC, without CU and WSU, will suck. Face it, deal with it, change it...
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I don't think they would be any more or less full than any other Valley opponent. Hell, I was at the New Mexico game and it was barren for a Top 25 team.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
Here is where I'll strongly disagree. McDermott makes $1m at Creighton and Lansing makes $170k. They are able to also pay their assistant coaches significantly more. Further, they have a recruiting budget that is 5x plus what we have. Then you also throw in the cash they have to buy games. They are are on completely different playing field financially.
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Seriously, if this is the way we are going to deal with this, why don't we start a "Drop to the OVC" campaign. Personally, I'd rather see us aspire to be one of the elites in a strong MVC, but if I'm out here on an island all by myself...:angel:

Still think it's typical ISU to dumb down rather than build up...
 
Jason Svoboda said:
I don't think they would be any more or less full than any other Valley opponent. Hell, I was at the New Mexico game and it was barren for a Top 25 team.
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There would be more than a few people who would drop their season tickets if there's no hope of seeing a couple really strong teams each season. I might be one of them. I'll make the trips over knowing that for every Truman State we play, I'm gonna get to see a Creighton, Wichita State or other Valley team that's flirting with the Top 25. I'm not gonna be too excited about all those trips when the highlight of the schedule is yet another team that A) no one ever hears about, and B) no one cares about.

A STRONG Valley is good for us. A weak Valley, not so much...
 

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IndyTreeFan said:
Seriously, if this is the way we are going to deal with this, why don't we start a "Drop to the OVC" campaign. Personally, I'd rather see us aspire to be one of the elites in a strong MVC, but if I'm out here on an island all by myself...:angel:

Still think it's typical ISU to dumb down rather than build up...
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I don't. The MVC is still going to be a strong mid-major conference. Do you consider the Horizon League to be a "low major" conference? Looking at Butler, they were able to build a national program out of a lower ranked conference. I just don't see Creighton leaving as gloom and doom.
 
IndyTreeFan said:
There would be more than a few people who would drop their season tickets if there's no hope of seeing a couple really strong teams each season. I might be one of them. I'll make the trips over knowing that for every Truman State we play, I'm gonna get to see a Creighton, Wichita State or other Valley team that's flirting with the Top 25. I'm not gonna be too excited about all those trips when the highlight of the schedule is yet another team that A) no one ever hears about, and B) no one cares about.

A STRONG Valley is good for us. A weak Valley, not so much...
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No you wouldn't, your signature says otherwise. It doesn't say "Sycamores 'till Creighton leaves the MVC" :biggrin:

Further, I'd venture a guess that more tickets would be sold if we fielded a consistent winner. All I'm saying is I want the strongest teams we can have in the Valley as long as the playing field is level.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
I don't. The MVC is still going to be a strong mid-major conference. Do you consider the Horizon League to be a "low major" conference? Looking at Butler, they were able to build a national program out of a lower ranked conference. I just don't see Creighton leaving as gloom and doom.
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But don't you think Butler outspent their Horizon League counterparts? No level playing field there. Besides, that was a case of catching lightning in a bottle. We had our chance to do that, and we blew it.

I'm not so down about Creighton going, but if we lose them AND Wichita, we aren't going to be a strong mid-major anymore. That's a fact. We're barely a strong mid-major now, and that is SOLELY due to Creighton and WSU.

We need to be in the strongest conference possible, have a long term vision for our athletic program, and then a plan to achieve it. We need to build up to the mountaintop, not fall down to the swamp! We need to act like we're good enough to expect this, rather than bellyaching about "poor old us."

And yes, I consider the Horizon a low major since they lost their flagship program...

I'm just in a mood tonight...:shocked2:
 

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Fair enough. I don't think Wichita State is leaving. I don't think the Mountain West would take a non-football member. Every team in the conference fields a football team and their only associate member (Hawaii) is a football-only participant. I don't see a conference that makes sense for them unless they get into this new conference and I don't think they fit over the other options like Creighton, Xavier, Dayton, et al.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
Fair enough. I don't think Wichita State is leaving. I don't think the Mountain West would take a non-football member. Every team in the conference fields a football team and their only associate member (Hawaii) is a football-only participant. I don't see a conference that makes sense for them unless they get into this new conference and I don't think they fit over the other options like Creighton, Xavier, Dayton, et al.
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You are probably right. Without football, they don't fit anywhere other than the MVC, really. Shoot, WE might have a better shot at moving "up" than they do, simply because we have football already. I'd hate to see us go down that money pit, though...
 
I will have to disagree that somehow the Valley becomes so much weaker by losing Creighton and/or Wichita State. In my opinion, it was Southern Illinois, Bradley and Northern Iowa all making great runs in the tournament that brought as much attention to the league as anything. Creighton is the golden child this year, but that is all cyclical. Murray State got national attention and most cant name their conference, Butler got national attention and nobody cared about their conference. The Valley is one of the oldest conferences in the NCAA and i dont see the name dying simply because Creighton leaves.

Personally, i wouldnt mind seeing Creighton leave anyway. Replace them with a Murray State and i would call that a win for the Valley.
 
IndyTreeFan said:
You are probably right. Without football, they don't fit anywhere other than the MVC, really. Shoot, WE might have a better shot at moving "up" than they do, simply because we have football already. I'd hate to see us go down that money pit, though...
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Not even remotely interested.
 
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