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Neese Calling Out Terre Haute!!!!
- Thread starter SycamoreStateofMind
- Start date
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This tweet got a lot of attention and likes on the ole Twitter… While I agree with the premise of the tweet and I know we’ve worn this topic out over the years.
But I’m going to defend Terre Haute on this one… You look at the Drake game and considering everything it was actually a pretty good crowd:
1. We hadn’t beat anyone of substance coming into that game to give fans a reason to believe and unfortunately fringe fans need a reason or several reasons before they will support you in this town.
2. IU was playing UNC and PU were both playing at home on the same night. Is what it is.
Then you look ahead and we don’t have a home game until December 22 vs. Northern IL. The students will be on break so we will not have any student support and it’s close to Christmas people are busy… So it will probably be pretty lame.
Then a week later on the 29th students still on break you get an abysmal Evansville team…
My point is this - the Sycamores are going to have to continue to hold down the fort for awhile before you probably see a decent crowd and atmosphere in the Hulman Center. And you can blame Terre Haute all you want - that’s fine they deserve a share of the blame. But don’t forget years of neglect in establishing current student pride and invest in your athletic programs, lack of community/alum support from years of neglect and quite frankly just a marginal product on the floor for many many years now… So blame Terre Haute all you want but it’s just not that simple.
But without a doubt these dudes are fun to watch - the entertainment value is very high. They’ve done enough to earn the communities support and to get the University and local businesses to find ways to force people to come to games. I will continue to do everything I can do to promote and get fans to the games. But at the end of the day - Indiana State players just needs to worry about what they can control and that is taking care of business by winning.
But I’m going to defend Terre Haute on this one… You look at the Drake game and considering everything it was actually a pretty good crowd:
1. We hadn’t beat anyone of substance coming into that game to give fans a reason to believe and unfortunately fringe fans need a reason or several reasons before they will support you in this town.
2. IU was playing UNC and PU were both playing at home on the same night. Is what it is.
Then you look ahead and we don’t have a home game until December 22 vs. Northern IL. The students will be on break so we will not have any student support and it’s close to Christmas people are busy… So it will probably be pretty lame.
Then a week later on the 29th students still on break you get an abysmal Evansville team…
My point is this - the Sycamores are going to have to continue to hold down the fort for awhile before you probably see a decent crowd and atmosphere in the Hulman Center. And you can blame Terre Haute all you want - that’s fine they deserve a share of the blame. But don’t forget years of neglect in establishing current student pride and invest in your athletic programs, lack of community/alum support from years of neglect and quite frankly just a marginal product on the floor for many many years now… So blame Terre Haute all you want but it’s just not that simple.
But without a doubt these dudes are fun to watch - the entertainment value is very high. They’ve done enough to earn the communities support and to get the University and local businesses to find ways to force people to come to games. I will continue to do everything I can do to promote and get fans to the games. But at the end of the day - Indiana State players just needs to worry about what they can control and that is taking care of business by winning.
And the fact of the matter is while I appreciate Cooper cheerleading and all that from the sidelines… Cooper needs to worry about getting healthy. For the first time in your career you’ve got a team that can win dude - so the first F’ing chance you get you calling out Terre Haute… Okay. Okay. You wanna tweet or you wanna ball? You decide.
Southgrad07
The Renn Level
100% agree... Not to mention that game on the 29th will also be on the same day as the final of the Wabash valley classic. Up until this year what have fans had to come see for 10 years?? Middling mid major basketball in an arena that was boring and outdated. We finally have a top notch facility and it seems like a winning product to match..If they sustain this level of play I guarantee Jan. and Feb. will see 5-6k crowds. Given the size of the city/area i'm not sure it is realistic to think we'd ever get back to filling up a 10k arena. Hell, go look at average attendance for most of the big conference schools..5k-6k is higher than a number of those schools. It was one of the biggest reasons I advocated for a reduction of 2k+ seats when they did the remodel.
I get sick of hearing all of the excuses for Terre Haute. The excuses of IU, Purdue, the Colts, the Pacers, high school basketball, etc are getting really old. TH has never showed up for ISU games unless we're playing a well known team or Larry Bird makes his rare "I want everyone to kiss my ass" appearance.
Now we're already making excuses for poor attendance against NIU and UE, smdh. Evansville is supposedly our biggest modern day rival, and we'll likely be 11-2 or 12-1 going into that game, and I bet there won't be 3000 actual butts in the seats.
Really the #1 problem is our location. Kind of halfway between Bloomington, Lafayette and Champaign; so most people around here only care about the Big Ten when it comes to college athletics. ISU is viewed as D2 by most of the local population, so therefore it's not "cool" to be an ISU supporter.
Now we're already making excuses for poor attendance against NIU and UE, smdh. Evansville is supposedly our biggest modern day rival, and we'll likely be 11-2 or 12-1 going into that game, and I bet there won't be 3000 actual butts in the seats.
Really the #1 problem is our location. Kind of halfway between Bloomington, Lafayette and Champaign; so most people around here only care about the Big Ten when it comes to college athletics. ISU is viewed as D2 by most of the local population, so therefore it's not "cool" to be an ISU supporter.
With the exception of the Wabash Valley classic (with great support from schools such as Northview, Linton, etc.) what athletic events do
the Terre Hauteans support?????? For those who remember.....Larry Bird's sophomore season had one sell out game....the final
home game versus Chicago Loyola. Another gem.....following the Menser/Renn team trip to the NCAA tourney....season ticket sales increased by ONE
for the following season (they returned to the NCAA and beat Oklahoma).
Bad news for ya' Cooper........I would estimate the largest crowd this year to be 5,500. As with my prediction, that we would lose at SIU, I sincerely
want to be wrong. But, history saz I am not.
the Terre Hauteans support?????? For those who remember.....Larry Bird's sophomore season had one sell out game....the final
home game versus Chicago Loyola. Another gem.....following the Menser/Renn team trip to the NCAA tourney....season ticket sales increased by ONE
for the following season (they returned to the NCAA and beat Oklahoma).
Bad news for ya' Cooper........I would estimate the largest crowd this year to be 5,500. As with my prediction, that we would lose at SIU, I sincerely
want to be wrong. But, history saz I am not.
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I think you'll all be surprised. If (a big if) we roll into NIU at 11-1, I think you'll see a pretty good crowd. Not 9,000, but I bet there'll be around 5,000 there. I have a little more faith that folks will come out when given a reason to come out. They haven't had a good reason to come out in a long, long time. Even when we were good for a couple of years, we were boring as hell. That's not the case anymore.
Plus, it's gonna take some people a longer amount of time to get on the bandwagon because ISU has fooled them before. We start 8-0 and then we lose 12 straight. Or we beat a Top 25 team on the road and then we lay several eggs. That sticks in peoples' minds. Fool me once, it's your fault. Fool me twice, it's mine.
This product is far more entertaining, and that will help sell tickets. HCJS has built it, and people will come.
Plus, it's gonna take some people a longer amount of time to get on the bandwagon because ISU has fooled them before. We start 8-0 and then we lose 12 straight. Or we beat a Top 25 team on the road and then we lay several eggs. That sticks in peoples' minds. Fool me once, it's your fault. Fool me twice, it's mine.
This product is far more entertaining, and that will help sell tickets. HCJS has built it, and people will come.
Southgrad07
The Renn Level
You aren't wrong about it getting old, but you also have to give them a reason to show up and prioritize ISU BBall. If you do that I believe TH has shown they will support a winning program. We AVERAGED over 6k when renn/menser were here and our only other good group with Odum we were right at 6k for his senior season..Those are literally the only 2 MVC title contending teams we've had in 40+ seasons...Like I said, you were asking people to show up and support a poor product in one of the worst valley venues, i'm not sure what you expect people to care about...BUT we do have an opportunity to change that with the new Hulman Center and a new and exciting product on the floor.
And before anyone complains about 5-6K showing up think about the numbers for a second...We are in a town of sub 60K and have a student enrollment of less than 10k..The city of Evansville is twice our size...People rave about Murray St. fanbase, I looked up attendance from Ja Morant's special season and it was less than 5,500...Maybe their arena sounds louder because it only holds 8K?? The smartest thing for ISU to do would be to blanket/curtain off both of the upper bowls behind the baskets and therefore funnel everyone into a smaller space. I believe last time I went to Evansville's new arena they did this on one side. It would make a difference in the atmosphere if 5-6K were in attendance.
There is/was no justification for the Larry Bird comment.
Why's that? He never comes back here unless it's all about him.
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EvilleSycamore
The All-MVC Level
I will say this, what support do we have from ANY former players? Even the ones who live in or from Terre Haute? Its not just Larry. When the hell was the last EDDIE Bird sighting at a game or supporting the team, or The so beloved Jake Odum, or super cop Justin Gant, or the any of the others that live local. i could go on and on naming players that live in the area that dont support. I understand this wasn't their coach but it was their school and their program. Yes Larry is the highest profile and would lend a tremendous amount to recruiting to call a recruit on HCJS's behalf, but you cant call him out without calling out the others.
Eddie Bird was at the Drake game
SycamoreBlue3209
The Newsom Level
Sell outs just aren't going to happen this year.
The focus right now is taking care of business for the rest of 2022 and get through the holidays/students on winter break. Three non-con games left and need to come out 3-0 or 2-1. Then we play 4 straight conference games against what are probably the 4 bottom teams in the conference. If we can get through this stretch @ 15-2 or 14-3 (obviously hoping for 16-1), this could set up a really nice home rematch against SIU. If we are somewhere between 14-3 and 16-1 on January 11th against the Salukis and can't get close to 6k in the Hulman Center, I've got nothing...
The focus right now is taking care of business for the rest of 2022 and get through the holidays/students on winter break. Three non-con games left and need to come out 3-0 or 2-1. Then we play 4 straight conference games against what are probably the 4 bottom teams in the conference. If we can get through this stretch @ 15-2 or 14-3 (obviously hoping for 16-1), this could set up a really nice home rematch against SIU. If we are somewhere between 14-3 and 16-1 on January 11th against the Salukis and can't get close to 6k in the Hulman Center, I've got nothing...
Brad Miley is at just about every game, and travels quite a bit to watch the team as well. I’ll give him a pass on the support issue.
It is unlikely the Hulman Center will ever see consistently full crowds despite us winning consistently. I've posted article after article that fan attendance is down across the board in all revenue sports and has been on the decline for years. It was one of the reason I advocated for downgrading the overall seating numbers in favor of luxury options... but I digress. Some facts:
The average D1 attendance in 2022 was 4,313.
The average MVC attendance in 2022 was 3,280.
Indiana State average in 2022 was 2,990.
Just for sake of comparison, the Top 5 were:
1 - Big Ten: 12,520
2 - Big 12: 10,602
3 - SEC: 10,557
4 - ACC: 9659
5 - Big East: 9,056
The Pac-12 is then a solid step down at #6 with 6,359. Like rated conferences to the Valley, the A10, C-USA, WCC and MAC were at 4,313, 3,003, 2,320, and 2,562 respectively.
Terre Haute is a small and old population center. It's population has been aging for years and, by and large, is dominated by lifelong Hoosier fans that have an affinity to that school due to the Bob Knight years. Further, the younger local population is scattered between IU, Purdue, Notre Dame and basketball blue bloods. Couldn't tell you how many Duke, Michigan or North Carolina fans I went to HS with at North back in the day.
Circling back to State, 6,000 fans should be the home attendance goal with 10k being the goal for special attractions -- like somehow getting a HM team into Hulman, end of the season matchup with Valley title implications on the line, etc. There are too many socioeconomic factors that makes attendance difficult for the average Hautian family. Likewise, we have more entertainment options available to us now than ever. Yes, tickets are cheap but who wants to bring their kids to the game and then have to tell them no if they want to get a drink, popcorn, etc. So unless you market Sycamore hoops attendance around being the best value option in the Haute, you're stuck going after a very small slice of potential attendees.
Move Student Section To Prime Location - I've made this statement for over a decade, but your best option to develop long term fans of the program is to make them fall in love with it while they are students. Duke, for example, has them directly across from the opponents and team as well as behind a basket. Then go back to the Greeks and get them to the games. Organize a season long contest with Union Board/Greek Life based on attendance with prizes to the top student letter orgs. Do the same for other campus recognized clubs. A lot of them lack funding so find a way to get the Top X clubs a couple hundred in funding.
Subsidize Fan Attendance - Ever go to an Indians game? Tuesday is Dollar Days where hot dogs, peanuts, potato chips, Cracker Jack and popcorn are all available for just $1. On Sunday's, Kids eat for free (hot dog, bag of chips and bottle of water) with paid attendance. Make concessions as cheap as possible. Offer $1 tickets for the top 3-5 rows and try to get people hooked on the experience. Tell every Terre Haute high school kid that if they're bored, show up with their student ID and give them an upper bowl seat.
This is a complex problem to tackle but it can be done. It just requires someone to give a shit, get creative and just keep fucking chipping away at all of the various layers until you hit that 6k mark regularly.
The average D1 attendance in 2022 was 4,313.
The average MVC attendance in 2022 was 3,280.
Indiana State average in 2022 was 2,990.
Just for sake of comparison, the Top 5 were:
1 - Big Ten: 12,520
2 - Big 12: 10,602
3 - SEC: 10,557
4 - ACC: 9659
5 - Big East: 9,056
The Pac-12 is then a solid step down at #6 with 6,359. Like rated conferences to the Valley, the A10, C-USA, WCC and MAC were at 4,313, 3,003, 2,320, and 2,562 respectively.
Terre Haute is a small and old population center. It's population has been aging for years and, by and large, is dominated by lifelong Hoosier fans that have an affinity to that school due to the Bob Knight years. Further, the younger local population is scattered between IU, Purdue, Notre Dame and basketball blue bloods. Couldn't tell you how many Duke, Michigan or North Carolina fans I went to HS with at North back in the day.
Circling back to State, 6,000 fans should be the home attendance goal with 10k being the goal for special attractions -- like somehow getting a HM team into Hulman, end of the season matchup with Valley title implications on the line, etc. There are too many socioeconomic factors that makes attendance difficult for the average Hautian family. Likewise, we have more entertainment options available to us now than ever. Yes, tickets are cheap but who wants to bring their kids to the game and then have to tell them no if they want to get a drink, popcorn, etc. So unless you market Sycamore hoops attendance around being the best value option in the Haute, you're stuck going after a very small slice of potential attendees.
Move Student Section To Prime Location - I've made this statement for over a decade, but your best option to develop long term fans of the program is to make them fall in love with it while they are students. Duke, for example, has them directly across from the opponents and team as well as behind a basket. Then go back to the Greeks and get them to the games. Organize a season long contest with Union Board/Greek Life based on attendance with prizes to the top student letter orgs. Do the same for other campus recognized clubs. A lot of them lack funding so find a way to get the Top X clubs a couple hundred in funding.
Subsidize Fan Attendance - Ever go to an Indians game? Tuesday is Dollar Days where hot dogs, peanuts, potato chips, Cracker Jack and popcorn are all available for just $1. On Sunday's, Kids eat for free (hot dog, bag of chips and bottle of water) with paid attendance. Make concessions as cheap as possible. Offer $1 tickets for the top 3-5 rows and try to get people hooked on the experience. Tell every Terre Haute high school kid that if they're bored, show up with their student ID and give them an upper bowl seat.
This is a complex problem to tackle but it can be done. It just requires someone to give a shit, get creative and just keep fucking chipping away at all of the various layers until you hit that 6k mark regularly.
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SYCAMORE81
The Blue Level
It would be nice if we could get area High School bands to play over the holiday break. A band brings a different type of atmosphere to the games. In years past we did this. Schools would bring their spirit squads, and the place was hopping. Northview did an outstanding job. This would be such an improvement over the canned music that is played at times during the games now. The music is so loud it is hard to even talk. There is still time to arrange it. People would come just to watch their students perform.
bent20
The Odum Level
What has attendance been like this season? I don't have a problem with a player encouraging people to come out to more games. But I'd be a hypocrite to be critical of anyone for not showing up. While I always follow ISU, I'm only back posting more because there is finally something exciting to talk about. Got kinda of sick of myself coming here to bitch about football and Lansing, and generally being disgusted with our perpetual mediocrity.
Doesn't he work for a "beverage" company? He may be able to combine work trips with supporting his fav hoops team?
Westbadenboy
The All-MVC Level
College basketball, at all levels, attendance is down ---- correct !
ISU teams have been very average at best for many years ---- correcct !
Enrollment at ISU is way down ---- correct !
Lots of fans in the area support IU or maybe Purdue ---- correct !
BUT !!!
Terre Haute metropolitian population is well over 150,000 --- that means within a 30 - 45 minute drive of Hulman Center
Student enrollment down, yes but you only need about 10% of them to show for a game to get almost a 1000 kids in the stands
That plus less than 5% of the metro area gets you a sold out Hulman Center !
ISU been pretty mediocre lately ??? Up until last couple years have you watched IU ???
Not much going on in Terre Haute -- that's for sure .............
ISU basketball ticket about same price (or less) than a movie ticket, event lasts longer than movie, and the popcorn is damm cheaper than at the theater for sure !
What else you got Terre Haute defenders ???
OK, I get it, there are issues. But you have a major college basketball team playing in a beautiful arena. ISU has sucked at producing an exciting atmosphere -- much better now -- still not best. Fine !
All this defense of Terre Haute, ISU students, etc etc is was bullshit every since Larry left, and it continues.
Indiana State is on the verge of something special, which with support and good decisions can lead to a very positive development for the University, the city, and surrounding area. We've blown it several times over the past 45+ years ........
Time to step up !!!
ISU teams have been very average at best for many years ---- correcct !
Enrollment at ISU is way down ---- correct !
Lots of fans in the area support IU or maybe Purdue ---- correct !
BUT !!!
Terre Haute metropolitian population is well over 150,000 --- that means within a 30 - 45 minute drive of Hulman Center
Student enrollment down, yes but you only need about 10% of them to show for a game to get almost a 1000 kids in the stands
That plus less than 5% of the metro area gets you a sold out Hulman Center !
ISU been pretty mediocre lately ??? Up until last couple years have you watched IU ???
Not much going on in Terre Haute -- that's for sure .............
ISU basketball ticket about same price (or less) than a movie ticket, event lasts longer than movie, and the popcorn is damm cheaper than at the theater for sure !
What else you got Terre Haute defenders ???
OK, I get it, there are issues. But you have a major college basketball team playing in a beautiful arena. ISU has sucked at producing an exciting atmosphere -- much better now -- still not best. Fine !
All this defense of Terre Haute, ISU students, etc etc is was bullshit every since Larry left, and it continues.
Indiana State is on the verge of something special, which with support and good decisions can lead to a very positive development for the University, the city, and surrounding area. We've blown it several times over the past 45+ years ........
Time to step up !!!