New goals for ISU: 14,000 students by 2017, higher graduation rates

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garyd63 said:
Assuming many on this Forum are ISU grads, do you know the faculty to student ratio in the year you graduated? (I'm talking teaching faculty here, not the usual inflated figure that throws administrators and temps into the faculty side of the ratio.) In your estimation, was that ratio about right, too low or over-staffed? What is it now? What should it be for a student body of 14,000? If the ratio is going to fall, are more on-line courses a satisfying fix? Are you anxious to pay your kids' tuition to sit in front of a computer as s/he takes ISU courses? Are such depersonalized course offerings likely or less likely to lead to student retention and higher graduation rates?
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I think enrollment was over 11,000 or so when I left in 2000 -- I remember a big hub bub being made about cracking 11k again. I believe undergraduate enrollment was around 9000 of that. If I'm not mistaken, enrollment back in the 70s was like 13,500.

My gen ed classes were always small (30-40 students) and my major classes were always smaller as well -- some classes were as small as 20 students. There were some elective classes I took that were 10-15 students in size. This was also when online courses were being introduced -- I think I took one of the first online classes ever at ISU, so they didn't have significant numbers in that area.
 

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IndyTreeFan said:
I still say that with IU abandoning the in-state students, there are a lot of high quality high school students that might not have previously gone to ISU that we could get now. The growth very well could be done in a way that raises the academic profile of the University. Yes, growth presents its own problems, but in the world today, you are either growing or dying. There's no other way. Just hope the administration adequately plans for it!!!
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Without a doubt. They should be actively targeting these kids. They may be, but we've still not received anything. Tanner is now a junior and nothing has come through from ISU despite him being a former Summer Honors program participant. This past week we've got stuff from Ball State, Vanderbilt, Anderson and Bradley. Received stuff from pretty much the entire MVC too.

Like college sports recruiting, kids are making decisions much earlier. ISU is missing the boat. None of the kids he hangs out with has received anything, either. All of those kids are IU/Purdue academic fits and would be great for Indiana State's profile.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
I think enrollment was over 11,000 or so when I left in 2000 -- I remember a big hub bub being made about cracking 11k again. I believe undergraduate enrollment was around 9000 of that. If I'm not mistaken, enrollment back in the 70s was like 13,500.

My gen ed classes were always small (30-40 students) and my major classes were always smaller as well -- some classes were as small as 20 students. There were some elective classes I took that were 10-15 students in size. This was also when online courses were being introduced -- I think I took one of the first online classes ever at ISU, so they didn't have significant numbers in that area.
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On-line courses were still in discussion when I was at State. Most of my major classes were 20-25 tops, I had 2-3 true mass classes, 100+ students;
gen ed ranged from 10-15 to 40.

I don't think in my time at State, enrollment was over 10,000.

If gloomington is pushing away good/great indiana natives; we NEED to scoop them up and make them Trees, not mastadons, jaguars, hoosieroons, or skawkin' pigeons.

I'd love to see State have a continual population of 15K; build the necessary infrastructure, recruit, enroll, Keep and GRADUATE those kids!
 
Jason Svoboda said:
Tanner got something from Bard College at Simon's Rock today. Never had heard of the place, but it is a small liberal arts school in Massachusetts with 380 students. So he can get something from them... but not Indiana State University.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bard_College_at_Simon%27s_Rock
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Get used to that... those smaller schools have to send to a MUCH larger audience...
My daughter got letters and emails for many, MANY small private schools.. I've been told that ISU doesn't really start paying attention until you send your SAT scores to them. It's when Ball State, Ill. State, USI, etc.. start sending them to you.. and you haven't heard from ISU - that's when it's really annoying. Especially considering that she went to two different Summer Honors camps.
 
Eleven said:
Get used to that... those smaller schools have to send to a MUCH larger audience...
My daughter got letters and emails for many, MANY small private schools.. I've been told that ISU doesn't really start paying attention until you send your SAT scores to them. It's when Ball State, Ill. State, USI, etc.. start sending them to you.. and you haven't heard from ISU - that's when it's really annoying. Especially considering that she went to two different Summer Honors camps.
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We've got all of those schools already. Pretty much every in-state school except for Notre Dame. They really need to change their marketing policies. BTW, we get something pretty much monthly from Ball State. Tanner wasn't interested but is now going to visit them because of the perceived interest.
 

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Jason Svoboda said:
We've got all of those schools already. Pretty much every in-state school except for Notre Dame. They really need to change their marketing policies. BTW, we get something pretty much monthly from Ball State. Tanner wasn't interested but is now going to visit them because of the perceived interest.
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A good parent would never allow their offspring to become a 'hoosieroon.'
 
Clarify a few things:

The new residence hall being built (in Lot A behind the Rec Center) is specifically designed for and will house sororities with potential for a few other student organizations but not very likely. It will be, I am told, very similar to a townhouse type of development. The sororities will move to these new digs when they are completed and move out of LQ. Once they move, LQ will be renovated supposedly. However, this will only provide an additional 300-350 beds at most..I guess it could be bigger but I doubt it. Provided that when LQ is renovated (why in the world you renovate a building that is held together by the miracle of duct tape I dont know), the bed count is not increased (which I can't see happening).

Parking is not a problem and never has been a problem at ISU. There are more than enough spots...more than enough!!! In fact, ISU has more parking than it needs. Two problems...people can't park right next to the building they want to go to and freshman should not be able to have cars on campus, rather they should have to park out at the football stadium and take a bus to get to their car....problem solved!!!!

College of Ed, College of Business- these old buildings will have to come down regardless of a F'in bird. They are unstable. The area upon which these buildings sit is approx. 1 acre (honestly smaller than that). within 1 acre you can get approx. 150 cars...so you are going to tear down buildings which will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to do, to get 150 parking spaces, that is idiotic-oh wait, ISU has already done that once....opps!

ISU is currently at capacity in terms of classroom and meeting space. If they are going to increase enrollment, they are going to have to address the classroom, meeting and faculty office space situation first. There will always be places for students to live (maybe not on campus but somewhere around ISU), but if you don't have lecture space, if you don't have office space for faculty and if you don't have meeting space to provide to students, staff, etc. then your goose is cooked. This will have to be addressed and from where I am sitting is much, much more important than the thought that a dorm is needed beyond the current plan.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
Woah.

http://www.indianastatesman.com/opi...nistration-desperation-1.2894642#.UE9T-41lSdw
http://www.indianastatesman.com/opinion/i-screwed-up-but-that-s-okay-1.2896239#.UE9T-Y1lSdw

0.85... really? If anything, it should be raised. This is exactly what we're talking about.
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That's pathetic. With the numbers of high quality students not being served by other institutions in the state, why are we going after these people? Not everyone should go to college. That's not a knock on anyone. It's the truth.

Perhaps a bit of the traditional "ISU Inferiority Complex?"
 
Jason Svoboda said:
Woah.

http://www.indianastatesman.com/opi...nistration-desperation-1.2894642#.UE9T-41lSdw
http://www.indianastatesman.com/opinion/i-screwed-up-but-that-s-okay-1.2896239#.UE9T-Y1lSdw

0.85... really? If anything, it should be raised. This is exactly what we're talking about.
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Two very good editorials!! Very impressed with the Statesman on this one! And they are correct, this is a huge problem. But it is a complicated one too. What I would urge ISU to do is look at Ivy Tech. If you think that this is a problem at ISU, it is a catastrophe at Ivy Tech...trust me. Lowering the GPA from 1 to 0.85 is just ludicrous! The faculty senate should be ashamed and so should the administration on this decision. A .85 means you failed all your classes and got a D in 1 of the 5. That is pathetic and means that the student never attended class, flat out, never attended at all. if you just go you are going to get a 2.0.

Many will disagree with me, but support Greek Organizations and your retention will go up. Statistics abound that show that membership in a Greek organization results in higher retention rates and graduation rates. Why ignore something that is proven to work time and again...and build upon it including other organizations as well. Skamps, black student union, etc. This is a problem that must be fixed immediately.

Also, something else to think about in this realm is graduation rates in terms of completion. At Ivy Tech this is a huge issue, do students go to Ivy Tech to take courses so they can get into an ISU or Ball State or Purdue or do they go there to get a AS degree? Most do not go there to get an AS degree, rather they go to Ivy Tech for two reasons: get money (they get pell grants, loans, etc and they see it as a paycheck) or because they are trying to get into another school. Likewise at ISU, do all students attending ISU intend to graduate from ISU? Or are they taking courses so they can transfer or do something else? And regardless of that question, are they truly students or are they there because Mom and Dad or a guidance councilor told them that they had to go? These questions are the core of the problem...one thing is for sure, allowing a student (via financial aid) to have the opportunity to obtain an education is wonderful, continuing to provide financial aid to a student that receives a 0.85 GPA is criminal and to me is theft of tax payer money (especially if they are at ISU on a Pell Grant).
 

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Sackalot said:
Likewise at ISU, do all students attending ISU intend to graduate from ISU? Or are they taking courses so they can transfer or do something else? And regardless of that question, are they truly students or are they there because Mom and Dad or a guidance councilor told them that they had to go? These questions are the core of the problem...one thing is for sure, allowing a student (via financial aid) to have the opportunity to obtain an education is wonderful, continuing to provide financial aid to a student that receives a 0.85 GPA is criminal and to me is theft of tax payer money (especially if they are at ISU on a Pell Grant).
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New admission's applications are being developed as we speak to be able to get a little more insight into the student's intentions, desire, etc.
Short specific essay questions have shown to be pretty accurate in helping predict early student success and ones that are at risk... Given early help, those at-risk (not necessarily just grades) can be positively influenced.
 
"Clarify a few things:

The new residence hall being built (in Lot A behind the Rec Center) is specifically designed for and will house sororities with potential for a few other student organizations but not very likely. It will be, I am told, very similar to a townhouse type of development. The sororities will move to these new digs when they are completed and move out of LQ. Once they move, LQ will be renovated supposedly. However, this will only provide an additional 300-350 beds at most..I guess it could be bigger but I doubt it. Provided that when LQ is renovated (why in the world you renovate a building that is held together by the miracle of duct tape I dont know), the bed count is not increased (which I can't see happening).

Parking is not a problem and never has been a problem at ISU. There are more than enough spots...more than enough!!! In fact, ISU has more parking than it needs. Two problems...people can't park right next to the building they want to go to and freshman should not be able to have cars on campus, rather they should have to park out at the football stadium and take a bus to get to their car....problem solved!!!!

College of Ed, College of Business- these old buildings will have to come down regardless of a F'in bird. They are unstable. The area upon which these buildings sit is approx. 1 acre (honestly smaller than that). within 1 acre you can get approx. 150 cars...so you are going to tear down buildings which will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to do, to get 150 parking spaces, that is idiotic-oh wait, ISU has already done that once....opps!

ISU is currently at capacity in terms of classroom and meeting space. If they are going to increase enrollment, they are going to have to address the classroom, meeting and faculty office space situation first. There will always be places for students to live (maybe not on campus but somewhere around ISU), but if you don't have lecture space, if you don't have office space for faculty and if you don't have meeting space to provide to students, staff, etc. then your goose is cooked. This will have to be addressed and from where I am sitting is much, much more important than the thought that a dorm is needed beyond the current plan."


I beg to differ with you, try being a handicapped amputee on crutches trying to find a handicapped parking spot on campus that isn't a quarter of a mile away from where you need to go. Handicapped parking is virtually non-existent on campus. The handicapped seating in HC is abused by non-handicapped people as is the elevator at Memorial Stadium but that is another topic. The big problem is the commuters that drive mom & dad's car to campus with the handicapped parking plate and park in the handicapped spots because they are too lazy to walk. Most of you may not see this as a problem but as a amputee I do see it as a problem, but the solution is not easy.
 
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Jason Svoboda said:
Woah.

http://www.indianastatesman.com/opi...nistration-desperation-1.2894642#.UE9T-41lSdw
http://www.indianastatesman.com/opinion/i-screwed-up-but-that-s-okay-1.2896239#.UE9T-Y1lSdw

0.85... really? If anything, it should be raised. This is exactly what we're talking about.
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Thanks for posting this.

Good for the Statesman editorial staff. Great research, asks the right questions and uses a fair and direct tone of address. Waiting to see how (or if) faculty leaders and/or administrators reply.
 
garyd63 said:
Thanks for posting this.

Good for the Statesman editorial staff. Great research, asks the right questions and uses a fair and direct tone of address. Waiting to see how (or if) faculty leaders and/or administrators reply.
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Yeah, I'd like to see their response. Conant and the rest of the faculty senate should be ashamed of their decision. I understand struggling as a freshman, I did myself, but this is just a cash grab as mentioned in the article.
 

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I can't believe that anyone who is admitted to ISU can't get better than a D average.Obviously they are taking students who have no business being in college.What kind of high school grades did they have?A college diploma used to stand for something special,apparently now it's just another certificate of participation that is the standard for today's kids.
 
To be clear... the Admission's standards have gone up over the last 5-6 years... ISU is getting a better student profile than they were before... we are talking about kids first year in college. WAY TOO many students are blowing that first year anymore...
 
SycamoreFan317 said:
"Clarify a few things:

I beg to differ with you, try being a handicapped amputee on crutches trying to find a handicapped parking spot on campus that isn't a quarter of a mile away from where you need to go. Handicapped parking is virtually non-existent on campus. The handicapped seating in HC is abused by non-handicapped people as is the elevator at Memorial Stadium but that is another topic. The big problem is the commuters that drive mom & dad's car to campus with the handicapped parking plate and park in the handicapped spots because they are too lazy to walk. Most of you may not see this as a problem but as a amputee I do see it as a problem, but the solution is not easy.
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ISU has more than the ADA required parking spots for handicapped individuals. I agree that kids drive mom and dad's cars and park in the spots when they don't need them and I don't know that there is a way to combat that problem. I will however, say that you can call ISU PD and request that a community service officer come to pick you up. You can have this as a standing schedule thing, where they will come and get you a specific spot everytime (if you are a student, potentially if you are an alumnus attending an event). Either way, I wish there was a better answer to the problem you face as an amputee. I think the other problem is that obesity does not make a person handicapped, yet the DMV gives out handicapped parking tags and plates to people all the time because they are to fat to walk a few extra feet.
 
Eleven said:
To be clear... the Admission's standards have gone up over the last 5-6 years... ISU is getting a better student profile than they were before... we are talking about kids first year in college. WAY TOO many students are blowing that first year anymore...
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Admissions standards are pointless if they lower the GPA requirements to a 0.85. You can have the smartest kids in the world in your freshman class but if they can't make the grades, they can't make the grades. Send them packing...tell them to go to Ivy Tech for a semester, they will see how much it sucks and they will either improve their grades or they will go get a job (actually they will probably live off Mom and Dad for a few years and then M&D will be so sick of them after a few years they will kick them out too). Maybe, we should impose a federal standard on pell grants and loans...if you get below a 1.0 while using federal funds...you immediately are enlisted into the military...that would change if these morons go to class or not!!!
 
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