New Outdoor Track - planned for next year

[Eleven]

According to the President's address today, the new outdoor track facility will be in next year's facility upgrades. (it looked to have a soccer field in the middle.. maybe not)

Congrats to a well deserving program.

 

[Sycamore Proud]

That is certainly well deserved by the track program. I glad to see it in our very near future.
:sycamores::sycamores::sycamores:

 

[IndyTreeFan]

That's great news for a most deserving team! Maybe their "toiling in obscurity" will finally come to an end!!!

 

[4Q_iu]

...Maybe their "toiling in obscurity" will finally come to an end!!!

Toil in obscurity? Can you explain that? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Toil in obscurity? Can you explain that? I'm not sure what you mean.

...work like a dog in anonymity...or work like a dog with crappy facilities and little recognition...lol...hey, look, I'm Tom James...lol:bigsmile::bigsmile:

 

[Bally #50]

Track and CC have gone relatively "unheralded" for years at ISU despite some measured success. This is a GREAT day for one of our BEST programs, period. I am thinking that is what he meant by "toiling in obscurity"! Congrats to RP and Dr. B for getting this done~

 

[4Q_iu]

Track and CC have gone relatively "unheralded" for years at ISU despite some measured success. This is a GREAT day for one of our BEST programs, period. I am thinking that is what he meant by "toiling in obscurity"! Congrats to RP and Dr. B for getting this done~

well, I'd guess that outside of Eugene, OR; the Drake and Penn relays, that Track/Field and CC goes "unheralded" darn near everywhere... I don't think The Haute is unique in that regard.

Glad to see that we'll have an updated facility; More kudos to Dr B and RP

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

...work like a dog in anonymity...or work like a dog with crappy facilities and little recognition...lol...hey, look, I'm Tom James...lol:bigsmile::bigsmile:

ITF not a chance that Tom even reads this thread this time a year and I would suggest that 4Q is probably on the right track (pun intended), however considering our success and the fact that we have hosted nationals the last 8 years don't you think 4Q that it's time for it to be at the forefront of athletics at Indiana State? What's holding it back? Maybe people like you who question the sports profit/marketability? Is it not main stream enough for some people? Maybe not - but we are on to something here in Terre Haute, so you can either get that picture now or you can get it later.

Fact is - the track and cross country programs at Indiana State are the face of athletics right now, we are the voice. Hell the owner of this website (Jason) realized that 3 years ago when he gave us our own forum, he recognized that their was a market for this. Are we the biggest site on here? Nope - but I can bet you that our's is as big or bigger than other D1 university's fan sites, no doubt in my mind.

The argument that having the best division 1 cross country course in the nation and not having track facilitates is a relevant one to have if you know anything about cross country and track programs. They happen to work hand in hand and we have a great marketing tool for athletes and the national running community for early summer and fall cross country season, it makes no sense not to be able to carry on that same sort of national relevance to the track and frankly our facilities don't support the ability to do anything. I applaud the university, Dan Bradley who's approval ratings are through the roof, RP who continuities to garner more and more support and all of you for recognizing this as GOOD NEWS for Indiana State University and noting that it's not only a need but it's well deserved! You all are classy folks, thanks for backing a sport that is what it is a non-main stream sport! I mean that in the most sincere way possible, don't take it as me being sarcastic. Thank you all!

 

[Eleven]

Man, even in such a positive story... so much animosity...
My guess is that ITF was talking about TJames because of his use of the ellipses..

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Man, even in such a positive story... so much animosity...
My guess is that ITF was talking about TJames because of his use of the ellipses..

My guess is your right - I was just pointing out the fact that Tom probably wont read this thread. Other than that I don't have a problem with Tom. Just because I throw his name around from time to time or don't agree with his love affair with ISU football (only kidding) doesn't mean I don't read his Colts column in the Trib Star. Hell prove me wrong TJ, did you read this thread? A simple yes Morgan will do.

 

[True Blue]

ITF not a chance that Tom even reads this thread this time a year and I would suggest that 4Q is probably on the right track (pun intended), however considering our success and the fact that we have hosted nationals the last 8 years don't you think 4Q that it's time for it to be at the forefront of athletics at Indiana State? What's holding it back? Maybe people like you who question the sports profit/marketability? Is it not main stream enough for some people? Maybe not - but we are on to something here in Terre Haute, so you can either get that picture now or you can get it later.

Fact is - the track and cross country programs at Indiana State are the face of athletics right now, we are the voice. Hell the owner of this website (Jason) realized that 3 years ago when he gave us our own forum, he recognized that their was a market for this. Are we the biggest site on here? Nope - but I can bet you that our's is as big or bigger than other D1 university's fan sites, no doubt in my mind

Your kidding right?

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Your kidding right?

If we are not the face what is? Who has had more success? Wait, are you kidding? Is the face of Indiana State athletics actually a losing program? Or do we not have one?

Your kidding right? That doesn't give me anything to work with - that's about the most uneducated post you could have made in response to mine... All I did was formulate an idea and support it with actual facts. If you were talking about my use of the website? Yeah that was a reach I will give you that, as much of a joke as anything that I put - but you didn't just quote that part so I am not sure what you thought I was kidding about? But yeah that about the sycamorerunner.com forum - more less has nothing to do with anything.

Maybe if you are questioning my humor, you too should question the humor of RP and DB - because they seem to understand the importance of Track and Field at Indiana State. Because news flash - Track and Field programs are the most commonly cut programs in college athletics - you make a commitment like building a million dollar track facility, then you got one hell of a sense of humor. No kidding needed!

 

[4Q_iu]

Morgan's cranky...

ITF not a chance that Tom even reads this thread this time a year and I would suggest that 4Q is probably on the right track (pun intended), however considering our success and the fact that we have hosted nationals the last 8 years don't you think 4Q that it's time for it to be at the forefront of athletics at Indiana State? What's holding it back? Maybe people like you who question the sports profit/marketability? Is it not main stream enough for some people? Maybe not - but we are on to something here in Terre Haute, so you can either get that picture now or you can get it later.

Fact is - the track and cross country programs at Indiana State are the face of athletics right now, we are the voice. Hell the owner of this website (Jason) realized that 3 years ago when he gave us our own forum, he recognized that their was a market for this. Are we the biggest site on here? Nope - but I can bet you that our's is as big or bigger than other D1 university's fan sites, no doubt in my mind.

The argument that having the best division 1 cross country course in the nation and not having track facilitates is a relevant one to have if you know anything about cross country and track programs. They happen to work hand in hand and we have a great marketing tool for athletes and the national running community for early summer and fall cross country season, it makes no sense not to be able to carry on that same sort of national relevance to the track and frankly our facilities don't support the ability to do anything. I applaud the university, Dan Bradley who's approval ratings are through the roof, RP who continuities to garner more and more support and all of you for recognizing this as GOOD NEWS for Indiana State University and noting that it's not only a need but it's well deserved! You all are classy folks, thanks for backing a sport that is what it is a non-main stream sport! I mean that in the most sincere way possible, don't take it as me being sarcastic. Thank you all!

I think it's great that the T/F and X-Cty teams do well every year.

I love that we've hosted the NCAA Nationals multiple times.

Are T/F and X-Cty the 'face of State sports?' --- I'll watch that debate, I will not participate.

I did not coin the term 'non-revenue sport' -- know some/many like Olympic Sport instead -- everyone knows which sports are captured by that term.

This was the attendance for the MBB during the 2009-2010 season:

1. Attendance Games Attend Avg/Game
   
2. Home 14 67298 4807
3. Away 15 94202 6280
4. Neutral 3 20529 6843
5. Total 32 182029 5688

I didn't see our attendance for the St Joe's game or UCinn;

What is our avg attendance for T/F and X-Cty?

It's not a slam --- I'm just looking for a comparison.

 

[Bally #50]

Morgan, funny how perceptions differ. To me, the track/CC program is to ISU what the wrestling program was to ISU when I was there. It is, in my mind, our premier minor sport. I presume that some of you will think baseball is, but to me, over time, our track program has performed consistently on a higher level. That higher level is even more remarkable considering the track facility has been sub-par for years. Sure, when I was here from 67-71, the track was considered one of the fastest surfaces in the country and in fact, Jim Ryan set a world record on our track that held up for years, but I believe it was re-surfaced ONCE in all those years and I was told they cut corners when they did that! Correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure it had only been overhauled completely once. I am simply thrilled that Dr. B and Ron found a way to get this new facility built. It has been a long-time coming and if they are in fact building everything over in the "Wabash" campus, this is likely the start of MORE TO COME!

I agree Morgan, that the track program has been a red-headed stepchild far too long, but I think this is the beginning of many good things to come. Congrats to the administration for getting this done.

 

[Bally #50]

I think it's great that the T/F and X-Cty teams do well every year.

I love that we've hosted the NCAA Nationals multiple times.

Are T/F and X-Cty the 'face of State sports?' --- I'll watch that debate, I will not participate.

I did not coin the term 'non-revenue sport' -- know some/many like Olympic Sport instead -- everyone knows which sports are captured by that term.

This was the attendance for the MBB during the 2009-2010 season:

1. Attendance Games Attend Avg/Game
   
2. Home 14 67298 4807
3. Away 15 94202 6280
4. Neutral 3 20529 6843
5. Total 32 182029 5688

I didn't see our attendance for the St Joe's game or UCinn;

What is our avg attendance for T/F and X-Cty?

It's not a slam --- I'm just looking for a comparison.

Attendance is not relative when it comes to minor sports. We have a national championship gymnastics team in the 70's that averaged 300 a meet. That doesn't mean the sport has no relevance to the University! If attendance was tied into all of our minor sports, NOTHING would get built.

 

[4Q_iu]

Attendance is not relative when it comes to minor sports. We have a national championship gymnastics team in the 70's that averaged 300 a meet. That doesn't mean the sport has no relevance to the University! If attendance was tied into all of our minor sports, NOTHING would get built.

I agree.

I don't consider T/F and X-Cty to be a red-headed stepchild; it (like EVERY sport damn near EveryWhere) is a non-revenue sport.

That's not a bad thing, it's just the truth.

Recently, I mentioned to a PSU-grad/co-worker that the PSU Women's VBall team just lost (for the first time in forever); HE was like Huh? What? The SEC fan said; 'who gives a about women's volleyball.'

Again, I think it's great that Dr B and RP have this new facility in the works; your goal of a true indoor T/F facility sounds like it's close to fruition as well.

It's all good news for the Running (and non-running) Trees!

 

[True Blue]

If we are not the face what is? Who has had more success? Wait, are you kidding? Is the face of Indiana State athletics actually a losing program? Or do we not have one?

Your kidding right? That doesn't give me anything to work with - that's about the most uneducated post you could have made in response to mine... All I did was formulate an idea and support it with actual facts. If you were talking about my use of the website? Yeah that was a reach I will give you that, as much of a joke as anything that I put - but you didn't just quote that part so I am not sure what you thought I was kidding about? But yeah that about the sycamorerunner.com forum - more less has nothing to do with anything.

Maybe if you are questioning my humor, you too should question the humor of RP and DB - because they seem to understand the importance of Track and Field at Indiana State. Because news flash - Track and Field programs are the most commonly cut programs in college athletics - you make a commitment like building a million dollar track facility, then you got one hell of a sense of humor. No kidding needed!

Let me first say that I have nothing against T&F or CC. I want them to do well and I am glad they are getting their facility. I'm happy that this is going to happen.

I think its a joke to call them the "face" of Sycamore athletics. I, along with probably 95% of Sycamore fans, cannot name one runner currently on either team. On the other hand, I bet 95% could name the entire mens basketball team roster, womens roster, the starting 22 for football, and maybe most of the baseball team.

You proved my point when you spoke of T&F being one of the most commonly cut programs in collegiate athletics. Men's basketball is not getting cut. I have yet to see T&F be on a billboard somewhere, hell Kylee Hutson was a 4-time National Champion, and barely made the newspaper. Is this right? No, but it is reality. I would put T&F/CC about 4th, maybe 5th, in the pecking order of face of Sycamore athletics. Behind Men's Basketball, Football, Baseball(who got their new place first), then maybe T&F/CC. Although, I would argue that from about 02-08 I would put Womens Basketball ahead of them. They may have been the face of athletics then.

Have they been successful? Yes. More so than other programs? Not really all-time. One year of Men's basketball reaching the NCAA's trumps anything T&F/CC have done all-time. Baseball going to the College World Series in 86 is bigger. Sorry, just my opinion.

 

[bkinsey]

You proved my point when you spoke of T&F being one of the most commonly cut programs in collegiate athletics. Men's basketball is not getting cut. I have yet to see T&F be on a billboard somewhere, hell Kylee Hutson was a 4-time National Champion, and barely made the newspaper. Is this right? No, but it is reality. I would put T&F/CC about 4th, maybe 5th, in the pecking order of face of Sycamore athletics. Behind Men's Basketball, Football, Baseball(who got their new place first), then maybe T&F/CC. Although, I would argue that from about 02-08 I would put Womens Basketball ahead of them. They may have been the face of athletics then.

First of all have any of you ever been to Eugene, Oregon? It's nicknamed Track Town USA in case some people did not know that. They draw just as many, if not more people for their track meets as they do for any of their other sports. In fact, their long time track coach, Bill Bowerman, was the co-founder of Nike and helped build the University of Oregon into the powerhouse it is today. Those are the facts. They did not get that big by no one coming out to support the team or by people saying it wasnt a popular sport.

I bring this up because everytime Morgan or someone else says something about the XC or Track teams, someone always comes back and says something to the effect of great job but if only our "popular" sports become big. How about instead of opposing the teams and saying they are not the face of the athletics department, how about we all just support the program. Coach McNichols has been on the same type of path as coach Bowerman in terms of building a program. He has done all the right steps and has built the best cross country course in the USA. The city of Terre Haute has also recently started getting nicknamed Cross Country Town USA. So my question to you is, if people from across the United States and the world recognize ISU and Terre Haute as Cross Country Town USA, why is it so hard for ISU's alumni to recognize this. Would you rather the university be known nationwide as a university with average popular sports or as being a leader in another sport.

And since people were talking about Cross Country's long time record, I thought I would point out that since Coach McNichols has been here his teams have finished outside the top 4 in the MVC only 4 times.

It all comes down to support. I am not trying to call anyone out but rather give everyone something to think about. The City of Terre Haute is already behind this team now its just a matter of getting the word out.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I made your point by stating a fact that you ignored? Maybe you missed it, they are actually building a new outdoor and indoor track here at Indiana State - not cutting the program. Fact is, in the past they mention cutting our football program more often than you even hear the idea of cutting the track program. So once again, thank you for the opportunity to present such facts. Does it not occur to you, that the building of a new million dollar facility is a huge vote of confidence for the track program? Better yet, when was the last entirely "new" facility (not renovated like the baseball field was, that is not an entirely new facility and that money also came from 1 major private donor) built at Indiana State? That's what I figured... So I am not sure how I made your point, but I am glad I was able to continue to speak to "that point".

I also want to thank you for actually taking the time to make a reasonable post rather than insult my intelligence as a human being, by making a less than thoughtful response. You raise some very good points, very few of which I can argue with. So much so that I would admit calling track and field the face of Indiana State Athletics was a bit of a reach to say the least. I think I was suggesting that this is a step in that direction more than anything else or at least embrace the fact that this athletic program is of great value to the University - which you have simply proved that you are unable to do. As expressed when saying, "I am gald they are getting their facility. You might as well have said that you are glad you are getting your facility.

If you are yet to see a billboard with track and field on it then you obviously missed the ones 2 years ago advertising us hosting the 2008 MVC Track and Field MVC Championship meet, did you miss those? Figured so... How about the 10 to 20 odd billboards across the state every year advertising the Cross Country Pre National and National events? Do you see those? Or were you just talking about track and field - because I again I remind you, the two programs support each other, one does not succeed without the other.

All and all I should have been more tactful with my post, I should have said something to the effect of, "Indiana State Track and Field/XC is the face of successful Indiana State athletic programs" and you prove your lack of support by not being able to able to acknowledge that fact. Clearly at this point you have represented how uneducated you are about both programs and all four if you want to talk men's and women's track. Better yet, if you were to ask anyone in the Indiana State Athletic department what is your most successful sport at Indiana State in terms of on the field performance, it would be overwhelmingly in favor of track and xc - no doubt in my mind. Of course they would never answer such a question - but you get my point.

The fact is Indiana State track and field programs have had multiple NCAA Championships and the standard at which track programs and basketball programs are considered successful is totally different. We went to the NCAA National Championship in 1975 - since that time we have had double digit individual national champions in indoor/outdoor track. What you can compare is how well Indiana State track and xc has faired in the MVC in the last 20 years compared to other programs at Indiana State. We could go that direction - but to me it's not about that, it's not about putting track and xc up against other sports, I don't have to do that anymore. RP and Dr. Bradley have already made that argument one that doesn't need to be had. Besides, we no what the numbers will show... It's not even comparable year to year.

 

[Bally #50]

First of all have any of you ever been to Eugene, Oregon? It's nicknamed Track Town USA in case some people did not know that. They draw just as many, if not more people for their track meets as they do for any of their other sports. In fact, their long time track coach, Bill Bowerman, was the co-founder of Nike and helped build the University of Oregon into the powerhouse it is today. Those are the facts. They did not get that big by no one coming out to support the team or by people saying it wasnt a popular sport.

I bring this up because everytime Morgan or someone else says something about the XC or Track teams, someone always comes back and says something to the effect of great job but if only our "popular" sports become big. How about instead of opposing the teams and saying they are not the face of the athletics department, how about we all just support the program. Coach McNichols has been on the same type of path as coach Bowerman in terms of building a program. He has done all the right steps and has built the best cross country course in the USA. The city of Terre Haute has also recently started getting nicknamed Cross Country Town USA. So my question to you is, if people from across the United States and the world recognize ISU and Terre Haute as Cross Country Town USA, why is it so hard for ISU's alumni to recognize this. Would you rather the university be known nationwide as a university with average popular sports or as being a leader in another sport.

And since people were talking about Cross Country's long time record, I thought I would point out that since Coach McNichols has been here his teams have finished outside the top 4 in the MVC only 4 times.

It all comes down to support. I am not trying to call anyone out but rather give everyone something to think about. The City of Terre Haute is already behind this team now its just a matter of getting the word out.

I agree with you 100%!