New Outdoor Track - planned for next year

[SycamoreStateofMind]

First of all have any of you ever been to Eugene, Oregon? It's nicknamed Track Town USA in case some people did not know that. They draw just as many, if not more people for their track meets as they do for any of their other sports. In fact, their long time track coach, Bill Bowerman, was the co-founder of Nike and helped build the University of Oregon into the powerhouse it is today. Those are the facts. They did not get that big by no one coming out to support the team or by people saying it wasnt a popular sport.

I bring this up because everytime Morgan or someone else says something about the XC or Track teams, someone always comes back and says something to the effect of great job but if only our "popular" sports become big. How about instead of opposing the teams and saying they are not the face of the athletics department, how about we all just support the program. Coach McNichols has been on the same type of path as coach Bowerman in terms of building a program. He has done all the right steps and has built the best cross country course in the USA. The city of Terre Haute has also recently started getting nicknamed Cross Country Town USA. So my question to you is, if people from across the United States and the world recognize ISU and Terre Haute as Cross Country Town USA, why is it so hard for ISU's alumni to recognize this. Would you rather the university be known nationwide as a university with average popular sports or as being a leader in another sport.

And since people were talking about Cross Country's long time record, I thought I would point out that since Coach McNichols has been here his teams have finished outside the top 4 in the MVC only 4 times.

It all comes down to support. I am not trying to call anyone out but rather give everyone something to think about. The City of Terre Haute is already behind this team now its just a matter of getting the word out.

Thanks BK - maybe, just maybe he will get the point now. Because he didn't get it before and I am trying to call people out... If you don't get it, if you don't understand - this is me calling you out!

Very well said BK - wish I would have been able to post it exactly like you were able to! They get it in Eugene, I have been - I have seen it. They understand! They get it in Des Moines (home of the Drake Relays) home of 20k people watching a track meet for 3 days, granted one weekend a year they get it, but for gosh sakes they are more known world wide for the Drake Relays than any other sport they have...

One day Indiana State (FANS) will understand what it means to host a NCAA National Championship 8 years in a row, hopefully they realize it before some place like Eugene grabs it for good. Because if we don't embrace it - I assure you someone else will. They can build another LaVern Gibson if they wanted to, it's not that hard to do - Eugene is the holy grail of track not because of the track it's self (we all have 400 meter tracks), it's the holy grail because they embraced it several decades ago.

 

[4Q_iu]

I've read via the ISU Yearbook and NCAA site that we were in the 1975 Div II Track and Field National Championships; I didn't find our finish, in 1968, the team finished 13th nationally in the College Division (Div II).

Does the NCAA truly look at local support when awarding the T/F and X-Cty Nationals? Seems a poor formula to follow...

Not sure how this arguments start but I think the 'qualification system' in T/F and X-Cty is a better system in determing your All-Americans than the coaches/press polls in baseball, MBB and football.

However, it not a legitimate comparison to count T/F and X-Cty individual NCAA titles against team sports.

I think the billboard question and Kylie Hutson was more in reference to State Athlete billboards vs. host site of NCAA meet billboards -- there is a difference. Both are great BUT were there any Kylie Hutson, multiple NCAA National Champion billboards in The Haute? I hope so but I haven't been to The Haute in ~2 years, so I don't know

 

[True Blue]

I made your point by stating a fact that you ignored? Maybe you missed it, they are actually building a new outdoor and indoor track here at Indiana State - not cutting the program. Fact is, in the past they mention cutting our football program more often than you even hear the idea of cutting the track program. So once again, thank you for the opportunity to present such facts. Does it not occur to you, that the building of a new million dollar facility is a huge vote of confidence for the track program? Better yet, when was the last entirely "new" facility (not renovated like the baseball field was, that is not an entirely new facility and that money also came from 1 major private donor) built at Indiana State? That's what I figured... So I am not surew how I made your point, but I am glad I was able to continue to speak to "that point".

I also want to thank you for actually taking the time to make a reasonable post rather than insult my intelligence as a human being, by making a less than thoughtful response. You raise some very good points, very few of which I can argue with. So much so that I would admit calling track and field the face of Indiana State Athletics was a bit of a reach to say the least. I think I was suggesting that this is a step in that direction more than anything else or at least embrace the fact that this athletic program is of great value to the University - which you have simply proved that you are unable to do. As expressed when saying, "I am gald they are getting their facility. You might as well have said that you are glad you are getting your facility.

If you are yet to see a billboard with track and field on it then you obviously missed the ones 2 years ago advertising us hosting the 2008 MVC Track and Field MVC Championship meet, did you miss those? Figured so... How about the 10 to 20 odd billboards across the state every year advertising the Cross Country Pre National and National events? Do you see those? Or were you just talking about track and field - because I again I remind you, the two programs support each other, one does not succeed without the other.

All and all I should have been more tactful with my post, I should have said something to the effect of, "Indiana State Track and Field/XC is the face of successful Indiana State athletic programs" and you prove your lack of support by not being able to able to acknowledge that fact. Clearly at this point you have represented how uneducated you are about both programs and all four if you want to talk men's and women's track. Better yet, if you were to ask anyone in the Indiana State Athletic department what is your most successful sport at Indiana State in terms of on the field performance, it would be overwhelmingly in favor of track and xc - no doubt in my mind. Of course they would never answer such a question - but you get my point.

The fact is Indiana State track and field programs have had multiple NCAA Championships and the standard at which track programs and basketball programs are considered successful is totally different. We went to the NCAA National Championship in 1975 - since that time we have had double digit individual national champions in indoor/outdoor track. What you can compare is how well Indiana State track and xc has faired in the MVC in the last 20 years compared to other programs at Indiana State. We could go that direction - but to me it's not about that, it's not about putting track and xc up against other sports, I don't have to do that anymore. RP and Dr. Bradley have already made that argument one that doesn't need to be had. Besides, we no what the numbers will show... It's not even comparable year to year.

I don't want to turn this into a war or have people thinking I'm "rooting" against T&F. I don't. I'm a fan without being a follower if you know what I mean. I'm extremely pumped for the new facility and I agree its a vote of confidence. I'm for it. I dont know the financial backing of the new facility, but I would imagine its cheaper to build an indoor track facility over a football field and lets not forget that almost all sport are supposed to get a new facility so I place no significance on T&F being first. They probably needed it the most and its not as expensive. That said, I take umbrage in it being called the face of athletics. That's my only disagreement. To me, the face of any athletic department is one of the big 2. Football or basketball period.

What I meant about proving my point, is if it came down to basketball or T&F/CC, which one goes? No one in their right mind would say basketball. The "face" of our programs has to be the one that is last to go. (I left out football because it is the most expensive so in extreme times it goes at FCS schools I.E. Hofstra. FBS schools would never cut football)

I have seen the billboards advertising the MVC and NCAA meets. I have never seen one with ISU T&F on it like I've seen football, basketball(men's and womens) schedules on it.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I have seen the billboards advertising the MVC and NCAA meets. I have never seen one with ISU T&F on it like I've seen football, basketball(men's and womens) schedules on it.

In due time my friend, in due time...

 

[4Q_iu]

In due time my friend, in due time...

I hope so -- post a snapshot or a link here when it goes up

 

[bkinsey]

Does the NCAA truly look at local support when awarding the T/F and X-Cty Nationals? Seems a poor formula to follow...

To answer your question, yes the community support is a big part of the bid process when deciding where the national championships are hosted. ISU is truly lucky to have such a strong community backing in hosting the event.

 

[4Q_iu]

To answer your question, yes the community support is a big part of the bid process when deciding where the national championships are hosted. ISU is truly lucky to have such a strong community backing in hosting the event.

Well, than doesn't that strengthen the point of X-Cty and T/F being 'olympic sports?'

Indy gets the MBB NCAA because Indy 'puts on a good show;' not necessarily because the Indy populace loves basketball.

When was the last time the MBB Final Four wasn't sold out?

 

[bkinsey]

I didn't say that it was the only reason they awarded it to us. ISU has the best course in the nation and puts on a flawless "show" as you call it.

Indy gets the MBB tournament for the same reason. If it were the same way in Anchorage, Alaska where they put on the same type of show but had fewer attendance figures and less community support, do you think it would return their very often? No, same with XC.

Indy also has other things that make it appealing and for one it is the unofficial sports capital of the US with the NCAA, NFHS and other offices being located there.

 

[4Q_iu]

basically, T/F and X-Cty have their core fans and that's who they rely on to sell tickets

MBB has it's core fans but a TON of casual fans; I'm not trying to slam X-Cty and T/F but when have you seen a 'bracket' for the NCAA National X-Cty Championships?

Is the NCAA receiving a TON of cash from CBS to broadcast the NCAA National X-Cty Championships?


There are differences between the sports; that's my only point.

 

[bkinsey]

I agree with you that their are differences but where along the lines does a difference between a sport we were known for 30 years ago and a sport that we have national recognition for now, mean that we cant give full support to xc/tf?

Dont get me wrong, I love bball and am an avid follower of both the men's and womens programs but you can only rely on that "larry bird, right?" for so long. Right now, the program that is gaining ISU national recognition is XC but yet everyone on here seems to refuse to accept this? Its just a little puzzling to members of the community people involved with the program I'm sure.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

I'm all for Indiana State and the City of Terre Haute partnering to make Indiana State the "Cross Country and Track and Field Capital of the United States." We have more of a chance to make that a reality than with any other sport, mainly because of the awesome job that ISU and TH do with the CC National Championships. Doing the same thing for T&F would only be good for both the school and the city. It would be a tremendous image boost for the city, and Indiana State has a reasonable chance of making that happen, if we could get our track facilities to that level. This would be a very good thing for everyone.

T&F and CC have earned anything they get, I don't think we can debate that. I will rarely, if ever, attend either event, but I'm really proud to be associated with them!!!

Time to sing "Kumbaya" yet???:bigsmile:

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

basically, T/F and X-Cty have their core fans and that's who they rely on to sell tickets

MBB has it's core fans but a TON of casual fans; I'm not trying to slam X-Cty and T/F but when have you seen a 'bracket' for the NCAA National X-Cty Championships?

Is the NCAA receiving a TON of cash from CBS to broadcast the NCAA National X-Cty Championships?


There are differences between the sports; that's my only point.

I think everyone recognizes that, we are not really trying to compare the two. However understand that the last 3 years the NCAA Cross Country National Championships has been seen by a nationally televised audience, please understand the significance of that - it had never been done before we did it here in Terre Haute. We have helped create as much exposure for cross country than the sport has ever received.

In addition NBC covers both the NCAA National Championships in track and field and also what used to be the AT&T Track and Field Series - I am not exactly sure who the lead sponsor for that was this year. It's not like track and field does not get tv exposure, because it does.

But just like you and I both realize that the standers for which success is judged in track and basketball are different, the standards by which we judge "good fan and community support" are different. For the most part - Terre Haute does a pretty outstanding job of supporting the Pre Nationals and Nationals as it should - this event fills hotel rooms and it brings people to the city.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

T&F and CC have earned anything they get, I don't think we can debate that. I will rarely, if ever, attend either event, but I'm really proud to be associated with them!!!

Time to sing "Kumbaya" yet???:bigsmile:

http://www.gosycamores.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=15200&KEY=&SPID=7268&SPSID=65221


First off take a minute to check out the banner of the "Cross Country Town USA" recognition at the top of the page - very cool! It's worth the time, take a look!

I challenge you to take November 22 off work - make the drive to Terre Haute and see the event for yourself. Matter-a-fact if you want to help host the event send me a personal message and I can help get you signed up and you can receive some free gear from the NCAA. Either that or take Monday off work, come down to TH on Sunday, call me when you get here and I will make sure that you get your own personal ride (on a gator) around the course. Then on Monday watch the NCAA National Championship meet and come back here and report to everyone what you saw.

Trust me ITF, it will mean more coming from you or someone else with no bias to the sport. I come on here and what I say doesn't mean anything to most folks - that's fine because I understand. So what do you think? You going to make it happen? Hell, make the decision now before the Sycamores make the national championship and we can't accuse you of being a fair weather fan - rather a supporter no matter what! lol Because you can not only watch the NCAA National Championship meet this year, you can watch the Sycamores run!

 

[treeman]

i believe there are many reasons why track & field are getting the new facility first. reason #1 the current track and the location of it are terrible. Right next to a major highway, barely any bleachers, patching track surface, all around a crappy track facility. #2 track and field deserve it. they have consistenly shown that they can compete and win in the MVC and in the great lakes regions, despite having one of the worst facilities. #3 i'd imagine a track and field facility is a whole lot cheaper to build than any other facility. Reason #4 kind of ties into reason #3, by building the cheaper facility first it gives ISU and Terre Haute the vision of the riverscape project coming together. if they were to wait 5 years to save money for a football facility don't you think that the people of Terre Haute would kind of give up on the whole riverscape concept. by building a facility now, locals will see the vision of it and may lead to many more donations made by people if they are able to see changes happen for their own eyes. and reason #5 the location of the current track is a perfect spot for a "gateway" into ISU by getting rid of the track, it will make the campus itself a million times more appealing...BOOM.

 

[Sackalot]

It is just great that the new track facility is going to become a reality. It simply makes sense, it is the best interest of the athetics department and it is the "easiest" portion of the master plan for athletics to accomplish in the short term. As treeman pointed it, it will clear the way for a new entrance to campus as well. Though you will probably never see me at a T&F meet...I will still say that T&F is one of the strongest if not the strongest program at ISU...great things come from that program and though I can't run more than 50 feet anymore without coughing up a lung...I am proud that younger, in shape Sycamores can and do it very well! Also my dear friend was a shot putter for the Sycamores and I will always support anything that he did..because he was the most noble person I have ever known. RIP Fribley!!

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

It is just great that the new track facility is going to become a reality. It simply makes sense, it is the best interest of the athetics department and it is the "easiest" portion of the master plan for athletics to accomplish in the short term. As treeman pointed it, it will clear the way for a new entrance to campus as well. Though you will probably never see me at a T&F meet...I will still say that T&F is one of the strongest if not the strongest program at ISU...great things come from that program and though I can't run more than 50 feet anymore without coughing up a lung...I am proud that younger, in shape Sycamores can and do it very well! Also my dear friend was a shot putter for the Sycamores and I will always support anything that he did..because he was the most noble person I have ever known. RIP Fribley!!

Good stuff sack and treeman! Thanks for your posts! Good stuff everyone really, it's been a dandy of a conversation we have had here! Great supporters here on this forum, true Sycamore fans indeed! Hopefully once they get this thing built you will all take sometime to come check it out when on campus, I think it's going to be a first class facility - I doubt Coach McNichols would have it any other way!