Poll: Should the MVC replace Missouri State or remain at 11?

[IndyTreeFan]

I would kill for a ten year period where the league is dominated by us, UE, and Valpo. I would loooooooove that.

 

[sycamore tuff]

That would be fun!

 

[Blue Streaker]

Honestly I’ve hear all kinds of crazy rumors that the MAC may go non scholarship football. I think the best 3 options are Toledo, Northen and Wright State. It strengthens the footprint in Kentucky and Brings in Ohio without adding punitive travel for UNI and Drake

 

[isubird33]

I still really, really struggle and dislike the fractured nature of our conference. It makes no sense to continue to operate this way in today's landscape. Also, I don't disagree with keeping up membership, but IMO, I try to compact the league. If NDSU/SDSU aren't/weren't good enough, then St. Thomas shouldn't be.

I think all members, in both conferences, should go to the MVC/MVFC and ask for a 10 year plan/vision. We really need some fucking leadership to say "here is where we're going" and I've yet to see it done. Hell, I could make a case that it probably makes sense for the MVC/Summit/Horizon work together to even consider trading members to form the strongest conferences for their sport sponsorship. Would be a wild concept and probably would take a lot of swallowing of ego, but alas, nothing is likely to change so...

Here is how I rank possible additions based on status quo:

1) Public school with FCS football. If not in MVFC, must transition there within a couple years.
2) Public school with no football.
3) Private school with FCS football. If not in MVFC, must transition there within a couple years.
4) Private school with no football.

Last thing we need to is to keep adding privates that will just double spend everyone else and take advantage of our circumstances. As we have seen, it hasn't benefitted the conference in doing that over the last several years with multiple bids despite being top third and it certainly hasn't helped us individually.

Lastly, if the MVC/MVFC brass don't have a long term vision, I'm honestly open to us moving to a different conference at this point. I'd rather be a big fish in a smaller pond and be a consistent winner with a great shot a making the tournament versus having a good year every so often in the MVC. Before we just had to deal with being outspent institutionally and now we have the NIL spend vector.

I guess I don't see the concern with getting anything for the MVFC.

MVFC is already one of, if not the top FCS conference. Either the Dakotas stick around and it stays that way or...

4-5 teams leave for FBS...which in that case just try to merge MVFC with the Pioneer and go non-scholly for football. Would work well with adding St. Thomas for basketball anyway. Drake and Valpo are already in the conference too. Plus HQ is already in the same building in STL with the MVC and MVFC.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I guess I don't see the concern with getting anything for the MVFC.

MVFC is already one of, if not the top FCS conference. Either the Dakotas stick around and it stays that way or...

4-5 teams leave for FBS...which in that case just try to merge MVFC with the Pioneer and go non-scholly for football. Would work well with adding St. Thomas for basketball anyway. Drake and Valpo are already in the conference too. Plus HQ is already in the same building in STL with the MVC and MVFC.

The issue is you have two distinct entities where you then have two distinct groupings that have spending priorities because of their sports sponsorship.

In the MVC, you have the private schools with no football that can just outspend the football schools. Then in the MVFC, you have the football programs that sit in the Summit that can outspend in football versus the MVC schools. You can literally look at two decades worth of data to see how this has played out. That leaves the football sponsoring state schools like us, Illinois State, SIU, UNI, etc. always at a disadvantage versus those two subsets in each league.

I've actually warmed to non-scholarship football. You cut your football spend by about 30-50% but you still have all of the CapEx/OpEx. That said, I'd really prefer just to be in a compact "Conference Illianahiotucky" where everyone sponsors the same set of sports and has roughly the same profile.

 

[isubird33]

My realistic short-list. Wish list is some combination of- decent enrollment, decent endowment, decent facilities, decent media market, keep Midwest ties.

Baseline: ISU. About 8,000 students, $110 million endowment, Hulman Center 9,000.

St Thomas: 10,000 students, $700 million endowment, Minneapolis/St Paul location, clearly takes athletics seriously, new arena opening that seats 5,000.

Oakland: 16,000 students, $160 million endowment, Detroit market, downside not great facilities 4,000 capacity for basketball.

Omaha: 15,000 students, $110 million endowment, Omaha media market, passionate about basketball, amazing arena with 8,000 capacity.

UMKC: 15,000 students, $200 million endowment, Kansas City market, pretty bad facilities however...1,500 seat arena.

NKU: 15,000 students, $120 million endowment, Cincy market, 9,500 seat arena.


If I could be MVC dictator for a day...drop Valpo, add St Thomas, Oakland, and NKU. Shifts the conference slightly more east and north. Avoids UMKC and UNO as being offshoots of a larger system (although I think there are benefits to both).

Gives you the Chicago, MSP, Cincy, Detroit, Nashville, Des Moines, and (kinda) Indy and St Louis markets. You pretty much have every major city in the Midwest outside of Columbus, Milwaukee, Omaha, Lincoln, and KC.

Or hell also add UMKC and Omaha, go to 14, and your conference has pretty much every important city in the Midwest besides Milwaukee, the rest of Ohio, and Lincoln.

 

[isubird33]

The issue is you have two distinct entities where you then have two distinct groupings that have spending priorities because of their sports sponsorship.

In the MVC, you have the private schools with no football that can just outspend the football schools. Then in the MVFC, you have the football programs that sit in the Summit that can outspend in football versus the MVC schools. You can literally look at two decades worth of data to see how this has played out. That leaves the football sponsoring state schools like us, Illinois State, SIU, UNI, etc. always at a disadvantage versus those two subsets in each league.

I've actually warmed to non-scholarship football. You cut your football spend by about 30-50% but you still have all of the CapEx/OpEx. That said, I'd really prefer just to be in a compact "Conference Illianahiotucky" where everyone sponsors the same set of sports and has roughly the same profile.

I guess I don't see the argument about "private schools with no football" being that big of an issue. That applies to Loyola, Creighton, Bradley, Belmont, and Evansville. Worked pretty well for Loyola and Creighton, seemingly pretty well for Bradley, but hasn't led to immediate success for Belmont and definitely not for Evansville.


It just seems like the model of "state school that focuses on basketball while also sponsoring FCS-level scholarship college football" is shrinking/going away. It seems like the options are go non-scholly and the Pioneer League model where football is an afterthought, go FBS and focus on football (which isn't realistic for us and with how things are shaping up, I'm not sure how much of a benefit there is to being a low-level FBS member over the next 5-10 years), be a private school with plenty of money to burn, or be a Dakota School.

The closest I can think of to what you're describing are either the Horizon or OVC...neither of which sponsor football (well kinda the OVC, sort of) and are a clear step down in most other sports including basketball.

The other option, which would again take some big changes, is kick the Dakotas and Youngstown from the MVFC, add St Thomas to the MVC, and bring over Drake and Valpo from the Pioneer. But that would require Drake, Valpo, and St Thomas to add scholarships, or require ISU x2, UNI, SIU, and Murray to drop to non-scholly.

 

[Sycamorefan96]

I'd honestly like to see ISU, Murray State, SIU, and possibly Illinois State try to join the Southern Conference (SOCON) as a package deal. That's by far my preference at this point. 9 out of 10 schools in that league play scholarship football, and they also take their basketball seriously.

Here's a map of where the schools are in this hypothetical expanded SOCON.

SoCon | Men’s Basketball | 2024 Standings

Southern Conference 2024 Standings for Men’s Basketball. Also news, schedule, stats and more

soconsports.com

 

[southernindianaballer]

If the MVC follows other conferences and expands nationally I like Southern Utah and Utah Tech, but that is not real.
Chattanooga (won't leave SoCon) would be nice.
NKU and/or St. Thomas would be my realistic preference. Cinci and Minneapolis markets. That would be an upgrade from Mo State.

 

[treeman]

MVC isn't expanding unless there is a no-brainer slam dunk that emerges.

11 team conference works out well with a 20 game round robin. If you stay at 11 and the opportunity happens you can easily at the 12th. No sense in adding an unnecessary 12th and then a school that makes sense becomes available and we can't make a move

 

[4Q_iu]

I'd honestly like to see ISU, Murray State, SIU, and possibly Illinois State try to join the Southern Conference (SOCON) as a package deal. That's by far my preference at this point. 9 out of 10 schools in that league play scholarship football, and they also take their basketball seriously.

Here's a map of where the schools are in this hypothetical expanded SOCON.
View attachment 3214

SoCon | Men’s Basketball | 2024 Standings

Southern Conference 2024 Standings for Men’s Basketball. Also news, schedule, stats and more

soconsports.com

To what end? Your scenario effectively doubles our avg MVC Commute Distance...

Are you now shilling for the truck industry?

What not chase the "Big Time" and join the PAC? After all, ISU is on the West Coast of Indiana...

 

[MovingScreenOfDeath]

I'd honestly like to see ISU, Murray State, SIU, and possibly Illinois State try to join the Southern Conference (SOCON) as a package deal. That's by far my preference at this point. 9 out of 10 schools in that league play scholarship football, and they also take their basketball seriously.

Here's a map of where the schools are in this hypothetical expanded SOCON.
View attachment 3214

SoCon | Men’s Basketball | 2024 Standings

Southern Conference 2024 Standings for Men’s Basketball. Also news, schedule, stats and more

soconsports.com

So you want us to join a worse ranked conference, and probably triple our travel expenses, along with the three schools (Murrray, SIU, and ISU Red) I'd actually like to see leave the Valley specifically because they have scholarship football?

Hard pass

 

[IndyTreeFan]

There should be no replacement of Missouri State. We need to play the long game and get Wichita State back into the MVC. I believe the AAC is coming up on a new media deal, which should be considerably lower than their previous one. Without all those big names (I'm guessing the media deal will be lower), I think they might be better served coming back to the conference that made them their millions...

But that's just my opinion...

 

[Sycamorefan96]

The biggest problem I have with the MVC is that we (ISU) are too dependent on schools that don't have scholarship football and schools from other conferences (Dakotas and YSU). It was like pulling teeth to get Murray State into the conference, and then when they finally got in we had NDSU trying to block them from getting into the MVFC.

I'm also tired of adding schools to the conference that have a billion dollars, can't get 1000 people to show up to a home game, and can't get 100 people to show up to St Louis.

 

[Prisonmate]

There should be no replacement of Missouri State. We need to play the long game and get Wichita State back into the MVC. I believe the AAC is coming up on a new media deal, which should be considerably lower than their previous one. Without all those big names (I'm guessing the media deal will be lower), I think they might be better served coming back to the conference that made them their millions...

But that's just my opinion...

This is where I am. The MVC has three great assets: a top-10 conference ranking, an iconic conference tournament, and its championship game on CBS.

The MVC should not do anything that could dilute its conference ranking (or conference tournament).

So just sit. Don’t add anyone. Pray that Valpo decides to drop down by the end of the decade. That would be addition by subtraction.

The AAC’s media deal expires in 2032. Memphis and others surely will have been raided by then. Maybe WSU opens up then. Or maybe the P4 breakaway in FB opening up left-behind G5 schools like WKU.

 

[4Q_iu]

The biggest problem I have with the MVC is that we (ISU) are too dependent on schools that don't have scholarship football and schools from other conferences (Dakotas and YSU). It was like pulling teeth to get Murray State into the conference, and then when they finally got in we had NDSU trying to block them from getting into the MVFC.

I'm also tired of adding schools to the conference that have a billion dollars, can't get 1000 people to show up to a home game, and can't get 100 people to show up to St Louis.

Drop football or move to non-scholie if the micro fraction of ISU football "fans" can't "live without it"

Pour those $$$ into MBB, baseball and WBB - in the next five years, the rest of the sports will all be club sports, no scholies

Thanks FBS football! Thanks EA Sports and the rest of the soulless greedy Fucks who've destroyed intercollegiate sports!

 

[Sycamorefan96]

Drop football or move to non-scholie if the micro fraction of ISU football "fans" can't "live without it"

Pour those $$$ into MBB, baseball and WBB - in the next five years, the rest of the sports will all be club sports, no scholies

Thanks FBS football! Thanks EA Sports and the rest of the soulless greedy Fucks who've destroyed intercollegiate sports!

I'd honestly be okay with Pioneer League football. It's not my preference, but I would still support and buy tickets for it, like I do now.

 

[bent20]

A football team traveling any great distance is expensive. Yes, more expensive than other sports because you have more players, more coaches, more gear. We aren't moving to a conference with a wider distribution, and we aren't going to support the MVC expanding to an even wider distribution than it already has. This upcoming season we are traveling to Missoula, Montana, and to Grand Forks, ND, and Brookings, SD, in back-to-back weeks (so maybe we're taking over a hotel somewhere in the Dakotas for a week?) Either way, I'd be interested to know how much that's costing the athletics department.

 

[meistro]

As I'm watching in real time, college athletics as we know it is imploding. Does it even matter how many teams we have, or who is in our league? IMO, we are witnessing the destruction of college athletics right before our eyes.

 

[Hooper]

A football team traveling any great distance is expensive. Yes, more expensive than other sports because you have more players, more coaches, more gear. We aren't moving to a conference with a wider distribution, and we aren't going to support the MVC expanding to an even wider distribution than it already has. This upcoming season we are traveling to Missoula, Montana, and to Grand Forks, ND, and Brookings, SD, in back-to-back weeks (so maybe we're taking over a hotel somewhere in the Dakotas for a week?) Either way, I'd be interested to know how much that's costing the athletics department.

One way to look at it is that IU is paying for it I suppose.....

Indiana to host Indiana State in 2025 and 2027

The Indiana Hoosiers and the Indiana State Sycamores will play in 2025 and 2027, the two schools announced on Tuesday.

fbschedules.com