POLL: Should we cut student athletes for on the field/court performance

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Are you in favor of cutting a kid for poor on the field/court performance?

  • Yes - A Scholarship is a 1 year contract and the coach has the right to not renew the scholership

    Votes: 10 71.4%

  • No - Student athlete is broadly defined, lack of performance in competition is not a justification

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • Total voters
    14
SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
It has come up on here several times before, we've discussed it and we have debated it. I am convinced that this question does not have a right or wrong answer - it is just this is what I believe and this is what I support. So let your opinion be known on this issues, how do you feel about it.

The scenario is as follows:A student athlete at Indiana State is here on a full ride scholarship, they fulfill all off-court expectations but fail to meet on the court performance standards. At seasons end, should a coach retain this athlete or should they cut them?
 
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How about we fire the coach? jk guys..... Kind of hard for a coach to cut a kid he spent money and time investing in and especially if the kid doesn't mess up off the court/field... I was a walk on for junior college baseball and was the worst player on the team, but I went to practice every day and worked my ass off, so coach liked me and kept me on the team lol
 
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Would you like me to add that as a choice... As that is most certainly one of the arguments that I have made. Why shouldn't the coach who recruited the kid be held to the same standards as the student athlete?? Certainly a fair question to be asked of those who think that a kid should be let go for poor on the field/court performance.
 
SycamoreStateofMind said:
Would you like me to add that as a choice... As that is most certainly one of the arguments that I have made. Why shouldn't the coach who recruited the kid be held to the same standards as the student athlete?? Certainly a fair question to be asked of those who think that a kid should be let go for poor on the field/court performance.
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I think ISU is the only school that doesn't like to put any blame on the coach lol
 

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Yes (my vote), but expect possible reprecussions when you do. A kid shouldn't be allowed to loaf through four years of ball and not face any consequences. If a coach cuts a kid who is trying hard, but probably in over their head (we've had those before) it's on the coach and the program and the coach should expect consequences - a bad reputation (if it happens often enough), loss of credibility with other recruits, damage to team morale, maybe a lost or damaged relationship with the HS program that produced the recruit.
 
SycamoreinTexas said:
And the amount of people that defend a certain coach on here is loco....
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As it will always be. You always have some that will blame the players because they're on the floor/court/field playing and you will have some that always blame coaches because it is their program/system. However, you said "ISU is the only school that doesn't like to put ANY blame on the coach" and that is a factually incorrect statement.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
As it will always be. You always have some that will blame the players because they're on the floor/court/field playing and you will have some that always blame coaches because it is their program/system. However, you said "ISU is the only school that doesn't like to put ANY blame on the coach" and that is a factually incorrect statement.
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You're sensitive Jason. How can you be happy with a potential under 10 win season by ISU? ISU should never have that type of season in mens basketball. NEVER
 
I also find it interesting that this often comes up as a debate with basketball, but the football program (with so many kids) has it happen just about every year even if no one ever tells the kid performance is the reason.
 
SycamoreinTexas said:
You're sensitive Jason. How can you be happy with a potential under 10 win season by ISU? ISU should never have that type of season in mens basketball. NEVER
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First of all, that hasn't happened yet. Secondly, if you are talking about Greg Lansing he has had 4 strait winning seasons, 4 strait seasons of 18 wins or more and coming off a season of 23 freaking wins! Are you really advocating to cut the throat of that coach. Is that really a road you want to go down?

I speak in generalities when talking about coach(es) recruiting kids and then those kids getting cut. A lot of people handle certain recruits, often times that is not on the head coach - it is on his talent evaluaters, everyone gets looked at if a kid gets cut!
 

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SycamoreStateofMind said:
First of all, that hasn't happened yet. Secondly, if you are talking about Greg Lansing he has had 4 strait winning seasons, 4 strait seasons of 18 wins or more and coming off a season of 23 freaking wins! Are you really advocating to cut the throat of that coach. Is that really a road you want to go down?

I speak in generalities when talking about coach(es) recruiting kids and then those kids getting cut. A lot of people handle certain recruits, often times that is not on the head coach - it is on his talent evaluaters, everyone gets looked at if a kid gets cut!
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So why hasn't a coach who has had 4 straight winning seasons been able to get better recruits?
 
SycamoreinTexas said:
So why hasn't a coach who has had 4 straight winning seasons been able to get better recruits?
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It is rumored that our previous head coach quit because they denied him a rental car on a recruiting trip and wouldn't get him a basketball secretary. While we've allocated more resources to the program over the last couple years, we have one of the lowest basketball budgets in the country, certainly one of, if not the lowest among the higher end of mid-major programs/conferences.

We don't have a large fan base attending games so they don't get revenues to feed into the program. As I mentioned to you before about you being absent from the donor list, people like yourself aren't donating to the program, either. Even if it is $125, that is enough for a coach to travel 4-6 hours ($30 a tank of gas) to see a player or the ability to see a guy multiple times. Ever wondered why we never try to dip into a talent rich state like California for a player or two? We can't afford it.

My intention wasn't to single you out as a donor because prior to last year, I wasn't one either. But I finally decided that I was part of the problem and decided to become a part of the solution. I've only given $1000 or so to the hoops program over the last two years and that is about all I can afford to but I hope it was my money that has let Lansing send Coach Parker into Texas/Louisiana/Florida this past Summer.
 
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Am I really the only one who thinks that a player shouldn't be cut because of lack of performance? What in the hell is up... Surely someone else agrees with me. ITF where you at??
 
SycamoreStateofMind said:
Am I really the only one who thinks that a player shouldn't be cut because of lack of performance? What in the hell is up... Surely someone else agrees with me. ITF where you at??
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A lot of people look at it as a "job" and the scholarship is "wages." Most conservative type people are tired and fed up with any kind of welfare or give away programs and robbing from the rich to give to the poor.
So who deserves a scholarship more, a bad basketball player or a brilliant student? There's no free lunch. If you want to hand out scholarships, someone has to give up something.
 
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sycamorebacker said:
A lot of people look at it as a "job" and the scholarship is "wages." Most conservative type people are tired and fed up with any kind of welfare or give away programs and robbing from the rich to give to the poor.
So who deserves a scholarship more, a bad basketball player or a brilliant student? There's no free lunch. If you want to hand out scholarships, someone has to give up something.
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LMAO! I am about as conservative of a person as you will find. So I don't follow this ideology.

Who deserves a job? A scholarly professor or a coach coach that gives a full ride scholarship to bad basketball players? It works both ways. However, using my logic I want to hold the grown ass men recruiting bad basketball players accountable and you want to hold a kid (a freaking kid) accountable for bad basketball. Really?

I'm not a politician, I am a human being and that part of me just doesn't see that as the way to run a program.
 

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Jason Svoboda said:
It is rumored that our previous head coach quit because they denied him a rental car on a recruiting trip and wouldn't get him a basketball secretary. While we've allocated more resources to the program over the last couple years, we have one of the lowest basketball budgets in the country, certainly one of, if not the lowest among the higher end of mid-major programs/conferences.

We don't have a large fan base attending games so they don't get revenues to feed into the program. As I mentioned to you before about you being absent from the donor list, people like yourself aren't donating to the program, either. Even if it is $125, that is enough for a coach to travel 4-6 hours ($30 a tank of gas) to see a player or the ability to see a guy multiple times. Ever wondered why we never try to dip into a talent rich state like California for a player or two? We can't afford it.

My intention wasn't to single you out as a donor because prior to last year, I wasn't one either. But I finally decided that I was part of the problem and decided to become a part of the solution. I've only given $1000 or so to the hoops program over the last two years and that is about all I can afford to but I hope it was my money that has let Lansing send Coach Parker into Texas/Louisiana/Florida this past Summer.
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Trust me, if I had the money to donate I would. I plan on winning the lottery next year so some of that money will def go towards ISU. lol

It just is hard for me to watch a team that has had some success the past 4 years, tank so bad early in the season. Hope ISU can get on a hot streak and try to finish conference play on a good note!
 
SycamoreStateofMind said:
LMAO! I am about as conservative of a person as you will find. So I don't follow this ideology.

Who deserves a job? A scholarly professor or a coach coach that gives a full ride scholarship to bad basketball players? It works both ways. However, using my logic I want to hold the grown ass men recruiting bad basketball players accountable and you want to hold a kid (a freaking kid) accountable for bad basketball. Really?
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I'm glad you're conservative and I know you have thought this through. I don't think most fans who donate to an athletic program want that money to go for a scholarship for a "bad" player. They don't want to pay a "bad" coach either, so a judgement has to be made in either situation. But they are totally different issues.

And remember, AND THIS IS A MAJOR POINT --my daughter could have transferred if she valued athletics over academics. There is no contract that requires them to stay at their school.
 
sycamorebacker said:
I'm glad you're conservative and I know you have thought this through. I don't think most fans who donate to an athletic program want that money to go for a scholarship for a "bad" player. They don't want to pay a "bad" coach either, so a judgement has to be made in either situation. But they are totally different issues.

And remember, AND THIS IS A MAJOR POINT --my daughter could have transferred if she valued athletics over academics. There is no contract that requires them to stay at their school.
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I got you, I already referenced this point about your daughter in the EIU thread this morning - I get it!

I just need more people to see my side of it or I will be convinced I am clinically insane. I want to be sane!
 
SycamoreStateofMind said:
Am I really the only one who thinks that a player shouldn't be cut because of lack of performance? What in the hell is up... Surely someone else agrees with me. ITF where you at??
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I tend to be on your side, SSOM. However, if a coach continually misses on players, at normal places, he gets fired pretty quickly, because the teams will stink. At ISU, though, because we give coaches long term contracts, we can't make coaching changes quickly like other, better funded schools can. So, as a fan, I think if you're not performing the task for which you were awarded the free ride, then you need to go and we need to get someone who can perform the task. Just a function of wanting to win.

As someone who still believes in the "student-athlete" myth propagated by the NCAA, if the coach misses on a recruit and he/she cannot perform, that should be on the coach and the kid should still get their scholie provided they work hard, do the classroom work, and represent ISU and themselves in a classy manner. But at a school like ISU, we would have to take the bad with the good on this one - we might have more totally non-productive scholarships out there, which would impact the ability of the team to succeed.

So, I'm planted firmly on the fence on this one. Sorry, but I really do see the merits of both sides. It's a tough call, but one that I think needs strong leadership from the Athletic Director to all of his coaches. Sort of a "...this is how we do it around here..." one way or the other.
 
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