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question of the day....should indiana state remain in the mvc.....
- Thread starter TJames
- Start date
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I really like the competiveness of the MVC, of no doubt the OVC would be alot closer for most all of the games, but when football get turned we will be much better in the MVC.
I see pros and cons. But ultimately, I see little reason to leave the MVC at this point. From my perspective and for personal reasons the only reason I would see for us to move to a different conference is for us to find a true rivalry. A school everyone at ISU loves to hate...so if we joined a conference that would be my criteria. (I know dumb reason to change anything, but we need a rivalry).
I don't think the Ohio Valley Conference makes sense at all. Why did you name that particular conference?
because there are schools there..that would fit isu's criteria.....
in terms of overall athletic department budgeting and scholarships.....as it stands now.....some mvc schools offer more money and scholarships in a particular sport...than other schools do.....there's a disperity between the top spenders and the bottom spenders in the mvc...less of one in the ovc.....so that's why i mentioned that conference......
in terms of overall athletic department budgeting and scholarships.....as it stands now.....some mvc schools offer more money and scholarships in a particular sport...than other schools do.....there's a disperity between the top spenders and the bottom spenders in the mvc...less of one in the ovc.....so that's why i mentioned that conference......
Are we talking football only here?
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One conference
Ya can't 'piece meal' it --- ONE Conference.
I vote to stay in the MVC (and MVFC).
Should football's future be fuzzy move it to the Pioneer...
Ya can't 'piece meal' it --- ONE Conference.
I vote to stay in the MVC (and MVFC).
Should football's future be fuzzy move it to the Pioneer...
isn't eastern Il in the ovc? A problem with the ovc as far as football goes is that they have teams moving in and out from scholarship to non and back quite frequently. I know that Austin Peay was scholarship at one time then just within past couple yrs back to scholarship.
bent20
The Odum Level
I think we should stay put now that we're putting effort back into the football program.
Bally #50
The JSW Level
I am not saying we should or we shouldn't but here are some things EVERYONE needs to think about. The MoVal is made up of schools that for the most part, have MUCH bigger sports budgets than Indiana State. With few exceptions in 79, 00 and 01, in basketball, we have been an average or below team. The MoVal football conference is made up of many schools that are not affiliated in other sports. Most of those MVFC schools have MUCH bigger budgets than we do and we haven't been competitive for decades. So not saying the OVC is the RIGHT answer, but bottom line, guys, it MAKES SOME SENSE! If our budget woes continue, this ultimately may be the kind of move we might actually make. I don't like it either, but let's be realistic, it could actually happen.
Are you hearing chatter about this or merely asking the question?
Overall, I'd see it as a step backward; though it does look like more of the schools are closer in enrollment, not sure other areas.
I'm still partial to staying in the MVC/MVFC
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personally...i would prefer that isu remain in the mvc.....
but in order to do that....isu must give all the coaches and student-athletes a reasonable chance and opportunities to succeed...within the mvc framework....
that means...comparable budgets for recruiting, facilities, coaches salaries.....of course, you are always going to have a high and low in any athletic conference....but i would like to see isu at least try to bridge the average of the mvc schools when it comes to budgeting and financies....
nobody can expect any sport -- football, either of the basketball programs, track/cross country, baseball, volleyball, softball -- to be able to compete on a regular basis with the rest of the conference if they are not given a chance to succeed...
isu needs to decide exactly what it wants to be and where it wants to go athletically...bottom of the league? middle of the pack? or conference contender?....that's been the problem for far too long.....i would love to know what dr. bradley's long-term vision for athletics at indiana state is????...
we haven't had any written-in-stone vision for future of the athletic department for a long time, prior to the arrival of dr. bradley and ron prettyman.....
if anybody has contact with dr. bradley, can you ask him what his goals for the future of the athletic department are? we need a state of the athletics program speech or paper from dr. bradley...it's waaaaay overdue....lol........
but in order to do that....isu must give all the coaches and student-athletes a reasonable chance and opportunities to succeed...within the mvc framework....
that means...comparable budgets for recruiting, facilities, coaches salaries.....of course, you are always going to have a high and low in any athletic conference....but i would like to see isu at least try to bridge the average of the mvc schools when it comes to budgeting and financies....
nobody can expect any sport -- football, either of the basketball programs, track/cross country, baseball, volleyball, softball -- to be able to compete on a regular basis with the rest of the conference if they are not given a chance to succeed...
isu needs to decide exactly what it wants to be and where it wants to go athletically...bottom of the league? middle of the pack? or conference contender?....that's been the problem for far too long.....i would love to know what dr. bradley's long-term vision for athletics at indiana state is????...
we haven't had any written-in-stone vision for future of the athletic department for a long time, prior to the arrival of dr. bradley and ron prettyman.....
if anybody has contact with dr. bradley, can you ask him what his goals for the future of the athletic department are? we need a state of the athletics program speech or paper from dr. bradley...it's waaaaay overdue....lol........
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Bally #50
The JSW Level
TJ, I agree with your assesment that we should evaluate our position in athletics within the conference first, but let's face it, the numbers aren't crunching well for ISU currently and we (ISU) have to take a serious look at whether or not we should continue to be competing in a conference that clearly we cannot budget adequately to compete in. Frankly, if we didn't have RP controlling the purse strings as tightly as he does, we might be a whole lot worse off than we currently are.
I checked out the OVC since I mentioned them earlier, and ISU would be about an average-sized school there where we are easily dwarfed in comparison to some of the Valley schools in enrollment. Just food for thought and frankly, I never thought about this subject until someone mentioned it here earlier.
all i'm saying that is that it's not fair....
to the coaches or the student-athletes...to reasonably expect them to be compete against other mvc programs...if isu is not giving them a chance to succeed....
way too often we as fans blame the lack of success in any sport...on the coaches....or on the players who make up the team.....when they are doing the best that they can...given the circumstances that they've been placed under......
and its not all about money either...its how the sports are treated on campus...by the university community as a whole.....do university staffers continually try to intentially put up roadblocks when it comes to getting things done....making things tougher for coaches and student-athletes to succeed.....that includes marketing, promotions....
do the faculty and staff treat the student-athletes well.....while in class...do they get respect from the instructors......and not ridicule....
all of that plays into what the university is or isn't doing for the athletic department.....
to the coaches or the student-athletes...to reasonably expect them to be compete against other mvc programs...if isu is not giving them a chance to succeed....
way too often we as fans blame the lack of success in any sport...on the coaches....or on the players who make up the team.....when they are doing the best that they can...given the circumstances that they've been placed under......
and its not all about money either...its how the sports are treated on campus...by the university community as a whole.....do university staffers continually try to intentially put up roadblocks when it comes to getting things done....making things tougher for coaches and student-athletes to succeed.....that includes marketing, promotions....
do the faculty and staff treat the student-athletes well.....while in class...do they get respect from the instructors......and not ridicule....
all of that plays into what the university is or isn't doing for the athletic department.....
B
BlueSycamore
Guest
A shaky economic present and forecast future makes this a very necessary discussion. I could see a conference move being a very positive thing. We are way behind the "haves" in the Valley and always have been one of the "have nots" when counting athletics financial support and it won't be getting any better any time soon unless a rich anonymous benefactor passes on and I'm not sure there is even one out there to pass on? Now that the Valley flagship sport is only getting one bid to the Big Dance a move could be a good thing.
Am I missing something??
Did State just publish an econ forecast of the University??
I received a post card about an alumni mixer in Wash, DC this weekend but I won't be able to make it (drive is too far... and I was just there)
How bad are State's athletic $$$$?
Did State just publish an econ forecast of the University??
I received a post card about an alumni mixer in Wash, DC this weekend but I won't be able to make it (drive is too far... and I was just there)
How bad are State's athletic $$$$?
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the problem is that while most of the other mvc schools....
were quietly building their athletic programs during the 1990s and early 2000s, indiana state -- thanks to very questionable leadership from the university hierarchy and a particular athletic director -- was scaling back its athletic program......indiana state has fallen behind and is now trying to fight its way back...and it's not going to be easy.....
isu athletics was put behind the eight ball...but, once again, what's happened in athletics is emblematic of what's occurred to the university as a whole....no direction...no long-range vision.....
indiana state has floundered for far too long....and its good to see people like dr. bradley and ron prettyman are trying to pick up the pieces and make things happen for a change...instead of waiting for things to happen.....
isu, from a university-wide standpoint, has only itself to blame for current situation that it's in...the school needs to retooled...clean house....get rid of all the naysayers....all those people on campus who dont want to make it better...in all areas...athletics, academics, marketing and promotion, things for students to do, the look of the campus...
isu needs positive leadership.....the university needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century....as coach tates locke used to like to say, you can either lead, follow or just get the heck out of the way....
were quietly building their athletic programs during the 1990s and early 2000s, indiana state -- thanks to very questionable leadership from the university hierarchy and a particular athletic director -- was scaling back its athletic program......indiana state has fallen behind and is now trying to fight its way back...and it's not going to be easy.....
isu athletics was put behind the eight ball...but, once again, what's happened in athletics is emblematic of what's occurred to the university as a whole....no direction...no long-range vision.....
indiana state has floundered for far too long....and its good to see people like dr. bradley and ron prettyman are trying to pick up the pieces and make things happen for a change...instead of waiting for things to happen.....
isu, from a university-wide standpoint, has only itself to blame for current situation that it's in...the school needs to retooled...clean house....get rid of all the naysayers....all those people on campus who dont want to make it better...in all areas...athletics, academics, marketing and promotion, things for students to do, the look of the campus...
isu needs positive leadership.....the university needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century....as coach tates locke used to like to say, you can either lead, follow or just get the heck out of the way....
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Bally #50
The JSW Level
TJ, frankly, until you started educating me on the shortfalls of what our football team was dealing with (I knew ISU was underfunded but didn't have specifics), I was unaware of the many of the underfunding facts. Then I started digging, and it was clearly indicating that Sycamore athletics expenditures were WAY behind other MVC schools. Then I had my ears bent backwards by an ISU Athletic Hall of Famer that told me that basketball was way underfunded as were many aspects of the program, and then K-Mac leaves over possible funding issues and wow, here we are discussing it and maybe, rightfully so.
I will ALWAYS say that I am not being critical about anything the athletic department is doing in regards to this issue because as far as I know we are performing miracles with the allocated funds, but it is certainly an issue that deserves discussing here and in other forums.
Knowing what I now now, makes me think that this whole OVC discussion is worth talking about. We may be able to make the MVC work and I hope we can, but let's face it, we may not. I say let's continue to talk because this is good stuff and fascinating reading as far as I am concerned.
I guess for me, this discussion really needs to start at the top. There needs to be a discussion between Bradley, Prettyman and other necessary people on what sort of commitment will/should be placed on athletics.
While leaving the Missouri Valley would certainly be a step down, if it meant a more level playing field conference wide, I think you have to give it a long look. Honestly, I think you could have a better atmosphere in another conference. For instance, I think we're a more natural fit in the Horizon League. 7 of the 10 teams are located in Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, so you'd have easier fan travel, more intense rivalries and I think we're much more similar to those schools in terms of enrollment and endowment size.
As for football, I'm not sure what you'd do there. We do NOT match up well with the MVFC in terms of well, everything. We've got the lowest enrollment and lowest football stadium capacity which you can imagine equals lowest revenues and budgets. The problem is if you joined the Horizon, you're football options are limited. The Ohio Valley is the best fit there, but they compete in all sports, so it would be an all or nothing thing.
Definitely interesting discussion.
While leaving the Missouri Valley would certainly be a step down, if it meant a more level playing field conference wide, I think you have to give it a long look. Honestly, I think you could have a better atmosphere in another conference. For instance, I think we're a more natural fit in the Horizon League. 7 of the 10 teams are located in Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, so you'd have easier fan travel, more intense rivalries and I think we're much more similar to those schools in terms of enrollment and endowment size.
As for football, I'm not sure what you'd do there. We do NOT match up well with the MVFC in terms of well, everything. We've got the lowest enrollment and lowest football stadium capacity which you can imagine equals lowest revenues and budgets. The problem is if you joined the Horizon, you're football options are limited. The Ohio Valley is the best fit there, but they compete in all sports, so it would be an all or nothing thing.
Definitely interesting discussion.
new sycamore fan
The All-MVC Level
I hope we can stay in the MVFC. The OVC is a step backward. Southern Ill is probably the only team that spends significant recruiting $ in the "fertile" states like Texas and Florida. As our recruiting budget increases, they can spend a little more time in Chicago, the Cincinnati area, and Pennsylvania. There are plenty of very capable athletes that go pretty much unrecruited that are much better than what we have been getting. I know you have to grow your home state, and they have been doing that and seemingly getting better in-state kids. I know the limitations on out of state scholarships, but even in my short time following he program, there has been a difference in the quality of our limited out of state recruits. I'm not even sure any more who recruits certain areas. It's hard to maintain relationships with the continual changes on the coaching staff, though, so it's a tough task to try to keep opening new doors with some of the good out of state programs.