Question ? ? ? Student Oriented Businesses -- TH

[Westbadenboy]

I'm just curious -- with a pretty nice size student body it always seemed that the area right around campus has never had a lot of successful businesses. Even in the late 60's and early 70's when I was in Terre Haute there were few things -- outside a bar or two that brought in student business and several that were started came and went pretty quickly.
The few times I've been in town the last couple of years seems the same -- we have that new student housing right on Wabash Ave with retail space on 1st floor but unless its changed dramatically it remains pretty empty.
So what's the deal --- thousands of young consumers within 4-5 blocks but not much retail/food/etc going on ? I know the live on-campus population is way down but still (and as I said above when the dorms held about 9000 kids there still wasn't much ....Hooks Drug store about it)
Any thoughts ? ? ?

 

[Jason Svoboda]

There are quite a few businesses frequented by students along Wabash -- Copper Bar, Chavas, Verve, a couple pizza places, a coffee shop or two. The problem with the other retail in the new 500 building and the one where you are referencing is rental cost. Everything that has gone into that building by the apartments has went out of business.

There is a definite formula on your pricing that can 1) make rent while 2) attracting students. You've also got to do enough business during the school year because that area has always been a graveyard in the Summer. The problem I think it has is that it lacks that anchor tenant that will get people to come downtown -- like a BW3s, Scotty's Brewhouse, etc. The other thing is downtown is still a hassle to navigate because of parking.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

There are quite a few businesses frequented by students along Wabash -- Copper Bar, Chavas, Verve, a couple pizza places, a coffee shop or two. The problem with the other retail in the new 500 building and the one where you are referencing is rental cost. Everything that has gone into that building by the apartments has went out of business.

There is a definite formula on your pricing that can 1) make rent while 2) attracting students. You've also got to do enough business during the school year because that area has always been a graveyard in the Summer. The problem I think it has is that it lacks that anchor tenant that will get people to come downtown -- like a BW3s, Scotty's Brewhouse, etc. The other thing is downtown is still a hassle to navigate because of parking.

This ^

The price for downtown rental space and or ownership of downtown real-estate outright doesn't match up with potential returns. Several contributing factors and Jason hit on the main ones (summer break and parking). Beyond that - for many ISU is still a commuter school and for those that live on campus many of them leave for the weekends. I'm not sure if this culture has changed at all over the years but by experience and understanding has always been that the majority of kids leave for the weekend. So if you take away summer break, spring break, winter break and some weekends then you've really started to make it difficult for businesses to survive especially with some of the downtown rental rates.

The restaurant choices (although not great) are not all that bad. 7th & Elm, Saratoga, Rolly Poly, Wise Pies Copper Bar, Bally, Chavas, Verve, Taco Tequila, Boo's Crossroads Cafe, JGumbos have all been in business for several years now. Besides 7th & Elm and Bally all of these restaurants are located on Wabash within walking distance for students. Throw Sonka into the mix and you've got quite a bit of competition for dollars.

I don't see downtown ever being able to support offer much in the way of retail to students or the community. If downtown is ever going to grow beyond what it is today a couple of things need to change. It starts with job growth - our population has been stagnant for many years. The student population alone will never be able to keep downtown businesses alive.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

The suitcase college thing has always been a big issue. Remember fighting with it in all of the student orgs I was involved with.

When we were on campus yesterday for Tanner's Presidential Scholar banquet, I was absolutely shocked how many cars were in the parking lots. We ended up having to park at the very back of the lot by the softball fields. Outside of having a job, if you're not in a student organization, it is very easy to pack up and head home for the weekend.

Not sure how you solve that problem in Terre Haute, or if it is even solvable without setting fire to piles of cash to get something going.

 

[Bob Evans]

Back in the 70's, there was Hunter John's, where I worked as a delivery guy. I remember Zane Smith in there playing Missile Command frequently. Then, years later I saw him at Wrigley Field when he was with the Expos in pre-game warmups and he remembered me.

 

[Bob Evans]

At the same game, I talked to Wally Johnson prior to the game and he had no idea who I was and he lived just 6 doors down from in Rhoads Hall for A WHOLE YEAR.

 

[treeman]

When we were on campus yesterday for Tanner's Presidential Scholar banquet, I was absolutely shocked how many cars were in the parking lots. We ended up having to park at the very back of the lot by the softball fields.

Not trying to discredit the parking argument because I think that has a lot to do with it. But it seems that EVERY college campus (at least in Indiana) has parking issues. I know PU doesn't allow Freshman to bring a vehicle to campus, and students still complain about it all the time.

Sucks to hear that downtown Terre Haute hasn't taken off after some of the improvements/initiatives a couple years ago. I have always thought that the downtown area has so much potential being right next to campus. Always have and will believe that Terre Haute has the ingredients to be a very cool college town.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Not trying to discredit the parking argument because I think that has a lot to do with it. But it seems that EVERY college campus (at least in Indiana) has parking issues. I know PU doesn't allow Freshman to bring a vehicle to campus, and students still complain about it all the time.

Sucks to hear that downtown Terre Haute hasn't taken off after some of the improvements/initiatives a couple years ago. I have always thought that the downtown area has so much potential being right next to campus. Always have and will believe that Terre Haute has the ingredients to be a very cool college town.

During the week, no doubt.

On the weekend, I've always been able to park relatively close to wherever I was visiting. On a Sunday morning at 10am, nothing close to HMSU was open. Didn't help that they had the visitor lot closed, but when I was a student, campus typically didn't start coming back to life until mid afternoon.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Not trying to discredit the parking argument because I think that has a lot to do with it. But it seems that EVERY college campus (at least in Indiana) has parking issues. I know PU doesn't allow Freshman to bring a vehicle to campus, and students still complain about it all the time.

Sucks to hear that downtown Terre Haute hasn't taken off after some of the improvements/initiatives a couple years ago. I have always thought that the downtown area has so much potential being right next to campus. Always have and will believe that Terre Haute has the ingredients to be a very cool college town.

Again I wouldn't go so far as to say it hasn't taken off. In the last 10 to 15 years we've seen a great deal of improvement and development.

- Hilton Garden Inn

- Candlewood Suites

- TH Children's Museum

- Ohio Building

- JFords Black Angus

- Improvements to the Library

- Indiana Theater improvements

- Haute Maison Luxury Lofts http://www.loftsofhautemaison.com/

- Highland Quarters http://highlandquarters.com/

- The Deming http://www.coreredevelopment.com/apartments/the-deming/

- Annex 41 https://www.annexterrehaute.com/

- Riverfront Lofts http://www.coreredevelopment.com/apartments/riverfront-lofts/

Again - I wouldn't go so far as to say that downtown Terre Haute hasn't taken off. If you are looking for things to do in or around Terre Haute on a given weekend student or not the chances of you ending up downtown at some point or another are actually pretty high.

 

[Westbadenboy]

Good answers guys -- all make sense.

What always perplexes me though (and its probably due to some weird tax write-off) is based upon good old capitalistic concepts ...if something doesn't sell at what you think is the right price and you have "it" then you lower the price -- better something than nothing.
So if they want $5000 a month to rent a retail space in the new residence hall and no one's biting wouldn't you lower the rent price ? ? ? Better $4000 than zero.....better $2000 than zero .....
Guess this is why I taught Psychology and History not Economics

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Good answers guys -- all make sense.

What always perplexes me though (and its probably due to some weird tax write-off) is based upon good old capitalistic concepts ...if something doesn't sell at what you think is the right price and you have "it" then you lower the price -- better something than nothing.
So if they want $5000 a month to rent a retail space in the new residence hall and no one's biting wouldn't you lower the rent price ? ? ? Better $4000 than zero.....better $2000 than zero .....
Guess this is why I taught Psychology and History not Economics

I guess it depends on who owns the space (in the case of 500 Wabash Ave. Thompson Thrift Development) and what price they have in mind. I'm not in construction or the commercial real-estate business but I've got to imagine for a national development company like TT sometimes it's not just about "having something rather than nothing" - they'd rather take the loss and wait until they find the right fit for the space and by right fit I mean a business that has enough lute to pay them what they think the space is worth. They've been close a couple of different times but haven't been able to get anything finalized.

 

[niklz62]

I guess it depends on who owns the space (in the case of 500 Wabash Ave. Thompson Thrift Development) and what price they have in mind. I'm not in construction or the commercial real-estate business but I've got to imagine for a national development company like TT sometimes it's not just about "having something rather than nothing" - they'd rather take the loss and wait until they find the right fit for the space and by right fit I mean a business that has enough lute to pay them what they think the space is worth. They've been close a couple of different times but haven't been able to get anything finalized.

I also dont know anything about commercial real estate but is it possible that if you lower rent in one place it could hurt your income on your current leases that are coming due?

 

[meistro]

I think the downtown has come a long way. There have been several small offices and businesses come back downtown and they tend to frequent the local restaurants. It just seems a shame that more students don’t get out and visit the restaurants and bars. I was glad to see insomnia cookies come to town, but wonder if they’ll make it. I don’t even see many students at the Bally. Do students these days just sit in their room playing video games?

 

[bent20]

There are quite a few businesses frequented by students along Wabash -- Copper Bar, Chavas, Verve, a couple pizza places, a coffee shop or two. The problem with the other retail in the new 500 building and the one where you are referencing is rental cost. Everything that has gone into that building by the apartments has went out of business.

There is a definite formula on your pricing that can 1) make rent while 2) attracting students. You've also got to do enough business during the school year because that area has always been a graveyard in the Summer. The problem I think it has is that it lacks that anchor tenant that will get people to come downtown -- like a BW3s, Scotty's Brewhouse, etc. The other thing is downtown is still a hassle to navigate because of parking.

It's too bad the Terre Haute Brewing Company didn't open along there. Although they obviously opened where they did for historical reasons. I've seen one or two micro breweries be all it takes to bring life to a dormant area. Other restaurants often follow them. They attract an older crowd willing to spend more money. That said, the beer culture in Indiana has been slow to catch up to most surrounding states. Think it's finally taken off in Indy.

 

[meistro]

It's too bad the Terre Haute Brewing Company didn't open along there. Although they obviously opened where they did for historical reasons. I've seen one or two micro breweries be all it takes to bring life to a dormant area. Other restaurants often follow them. They attract an older crowd willing to spend more money. That said, the beer culture in Indiana has been slow to catch up to most surrounding states. Think it's finally taken off in Indy.

Speaking of the TH Brewery. We’ve been there 3 times in the last month and the crowds have been really good. The food is great and it’s a fantastic place for live music. They still have some work to do on their service, but definitely a cool new place.

 

[bent20]

Speaking of the TH Brewery. We’ve been there 3 times in the last month and the crowds have been really good. The food is great and it’s a fantastic place for live music. They still have some work to do on their service, but definitely a cool new place.

Do you know if they're back to serving some of their own beer again? Last time I was in there (months ago) they were remodeling and temporarily not brewing. If you're going to be a serious brewery - a destination point - vs another tap room, you can't do that for very long.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Speaking of the TH Brewery. We’ve been there 3 times in the last month and the crowds have been really good. The food is great and it’s a fantastic place for live music. They still have some work to do on their service, but definitely a cool new place.

Agree about THBC - food is solid. Atmosphere is fun. The service is beyond "some work to do" - my experience the last 3+ times has been awful service... The "manger" they have is way in over is head.

Yes - they are back to brewing beer again. Admittedly not a huge fan of the beer that they brew - but it's still a fun place to visit.