Spy Balloons

[bent20]

To spy and actually be undetected by the general pop is one thing. To spy blatantly and to allow it to happen is bad optics. Perhaps collectively we should just “know” that’s the world we live in today and reality.

But when they’re doing it and your Government the said most powerful in the world stands by and watches it happen - it sends a message to the rest of the world and maybe more importantly your citizens.

So it’s not political for me. I don’t care who the President is or what party he or she is affiliated with - I’d want the intel and I’d either capture it or shoot it down. It would have been done way before now. So don’t simplify this to politics and it always happens we shouldn’t care. Stop.

They weren't shooting it down because they didn't want to cause any harm to people or property. What China could get from this form of surveillance was so relatively low it wasn't worth the risk. They waited and shot it down over the Atlantic.

 

[bent20]

We pretty much do that already don't we? Between welfare, unemployment, and disability; that's got to be dang near half the adult work age eligible population.

Even when you include social security and medicare, it's only 20 some percent of the US population. Many are children. About 13 percent are retirees on social security. Only 2 percent are on unemployment at present. 3 percent are on disability. Less than 2 percent receive rental assistance. So, no, it's not half the population. The number of people receiving "a handout from the government" is quite small unless you count retirees and kids, and then it's a bit higher when you factor in those useless slackers.

 

[Sycamorefan96]

Even when you include social security and medicare, it's only 20 some percent of the US population. Many are children. About 13 percent are retirees on social security. Only 2 percent are on unemployment at present. 3 percent are on disability. Less than 2 percent receive rental assistance. So, no, it's not half the population. The number of people receiving "a handout from the government" is quite small unless you count retirees and kids, and then it's a bit higher when you factor in those useless slackers.

According to a few simple Google searches:

# on welfare= 65 million
# on unemployment= almost 6 million
# on disability= 40 million

Population of USA= 332 million
Population of USA aged 18+= 209 million

Total receiving welfare, unemployment, and disability benefits= ~111 million

111M ÷ 209M= 53%

 

[4Q_iu]

According to a few simple Google searches:

# on welfare= 65 million
# on unemployment= almost 6 million
# on disability= 40 million

Population of USA= 332 million
Population of USA aged 18+= 209 million

Total receiving welfare, unemployment, and disability benefits= ~111 million

111M ÷ 209M= 53%

Guarantee you have some double counts in your math

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

It is amazing to me the number of people (not necessarily on this board, just in general) that show great concern about being spied on by china with this balloon (as if they can’t do it from space with just as much, or more accuracy) but will then immediately get on TikTok and several other apps and put all their personal info out there for everyone to see.

Makes perfect sense.

Right right! Agree.

On that note personally speaking I had TikTok for a week maybe long before I knew anything about China connection and said this shit ain’t for me… I enjoy Twitter to express and keep up on the news/sports. Love Insta to keep up with friends and family + my hobbies. And Facebook I could probably part with but use it as a local news source. But outside of that - I don’t use anything. Tried TrumpSocial wasn’t about it. Tried most of them.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

They weren't shooting it down because they didn't want to cause any harm to people or property. What China could get from this form of surveillance was so relatively low it wasn't worth the risk. They waited and shot it down over the Atlantic.

They had plenty of chances to shoot it down before that Bent. I’m sorry if you don’t think they did then I can’t help you. We just disagree.

 

[Bluethunder]

They had plenty of chances to shoot it down before that Bent. I’m sorry if you don’t think they did then I can’t help you. We just disagree.

They shot it down when they did to a) minimize damage when it landed and b) shoot it down in a place they could recover as much of it as possible to analyze.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

They shot it down when they did to a) minimize damage when it landed and b) shoot it down in a place they could recover as much of it as possible to analyze.

Realize that. I’m done here on this topic - I’ve said what I needed to say. No one is going to change my mind or talk me into or out of anything.

 

[Bluethunder]

Realize that. I’m done here on this topic - I’ve said what I needed to say. No one is going to change my mind or talk me into or out of anything.

I gotcha.

Was mentioning it more for anyone who thought waiting meant the country was afraid or incompetent.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I gotcha.

Was mentioning it more for anyone who thought waiting meant the country was afraid or incompetent.

I feel as though if they’ve been following this for as long as they say they were following it they had ample opportunity before NOW to end it. They waited. Got publicly humiliated - it got over heavily populated areas and had to wait at that point. I think it was handled like most things with this particular administration - carelessly at best. It’s frustrating. So much wild speculation. Uncertainty. You have the greatest military in the world - you eliminate this threat immediately not sit on your hands.

 

[bent20]

According to a few simple Google searches:

# on welfare= 65 million
# on unemployment= almost 6 million
# on disability= 40 million

Population of USA= 332 million
Population of USA aged 18+= 209 million

Total receiving welfare, unemployment, and disability benefits= ~111 million

111M ÷ 209M= 53%

First, you need a consistent source for the information. That 40M for disability is not accurate.
Second, welfare in that figure includes those on social security and let's be honest, no one is complaining about the retirees on social security, even though they make up a significant portion of that number.
Third, many fall under more than one category so adding them all up for a total doesn't work.

Again, it's not as simple as you - and many others, sadly - want to make it.

And the original point was, people are going to have to get comfortable with the idea of people not having to work to live (to receive a subsidy). Now they won't get much, just as people receiving these benefits don't get much, and if you want more you'll have to work for it in all likelihood, and apparently resent those who have less for not having to work at all, even though they may have good reason - a legitimate disability, are of a certain age, are a veteran, are a single parent living below the poverty line, are a kid who'd be hungry otherwise.

 

[bent20]

They had plenty of chances to shoot it down before that Bent. I’m sorry if you don’t think they did then I can’t help you. We just disagree.

I'm sorry you can't bother to be informed and think rationally.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I'm sorry you can't bother to be informed and think rationally.

It’s not irrational to think that they had plenty of safe opportunities to shoot down the balloon that they eventually decided to shoot down anyway. The fact of the matter is they didn’t have any plans to shoot it down until public scrutiny. Why is that so difficult for you to get your head around? Don’t answer that it’s rhetorical.

 

[4Q_iu]

It’s not irrational to think that they had plenty of safe opportunities to shoot down the balloon that they eventually decided to shoot down anyway. The fact of the matter is they didn’t have any plans to shoot it down until public scrutiny. Why is that so difficult for you to get your head around? Don’t answer that it’s rhetorical.

I missed the news conference where any Sr. USG official said there were no plans to shoot down the balloon until public pressure "forced" the issue.

Please send the link to that story.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I missed the news conference where any Sr. USG official said there were no plans to shoot down the balloon until public pressure "forced" the issue.

Please send the link to that story.

Obviously that is purely speculation on my part. Signs certainly point to that. If you don’t agree I’m fine with that. We don’t have to agree and I don’t really plan on convincing anyone of anything. It’s not a partisan issue for me. It’s a national security concern.

 

[4Q_iu]

Obviously that is purely speculation on my part. Signs certainly point to that. If you don’t agree I’m fine with that. We don’t have to agree and I don’t really plan on convincing anyone of anything. It’s not a partisan issue for me. It’s a national security concern.

Love the internet, allows anyone, everyone to broadcast their speculation (s)...

No idea how many times, Def officials met with staff at the white house or other agencies on the response, simply not worth that time but I'm certain the balloon was tracked far longer than the public realizes.

Other questions to raise, is this the first? Highly doubtful, how many have we shot down and the public doesn't know about? Very probable...

What type of similar systems have we used vs. China, other countries that the public doesn't realize...

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Love the internet, allows anyone, everyone to broadcast their speculation (s)...

No idea how many times, Def officials met with staff at the white house or other agencies on the response, simply not worth that time but I'm certain the balloon was tracked far longer than the public realizes.

Other questions to raise, is this the first? Highly doubtful, how many have we shot down and the public doesn't know about? Very probable...

What type of similar systems have we used vs. China, other countries that the public doesn't realize...

The scenario you describe is what lead to my speculation…

I like you tend to believe that they’ve been tracking this for awhile. I think they even said as much. If that is indeed the case then they most certainly had opportunities to shoot it down before it went across the middle of our country.

Internet or not… The speculation is going to happen. I mean you don’t have to be working in Washington, have security clearance, work in the military etc. etc. etc. to be able to come up with your own conclusions and think independently. It’s hard for people to think independently anymore when they’re getting shit from TikTok or Twitter or wherever and they only follow, listen or discuss things with like minded people.

 

[4Q_iu]

The scenario you describe is what lead to my speculation…

I like you tend to believe that they’ve been tracking this for awhile. I think they even said as much. If that is indeed the case then they most certainly had opportunities to shoot it down before it went across the middle of our country.

Internet or not… The speculation is going to happen. I mean you don’t have to be working in Washington, have security clearance, work in the military etc. etc. etc. to be able to come up with your own conclusions and think independently. It’s hard for people to think independently anymore when they’re getting shit from TikTok or Twitter or wherever and they only follow, listen or discuss things with like minded people.

Here are a few tips... Stay the f*ck off of TikTok and Twitter. Obtain your news from legitimate sources, that may take some effort and crossing a paywall but do it. FaceBook is NOT a legit news source.

Independent thought is plummeting, chiefly because too many people consume everything they see , read in TikTok, Twitter and Facebook

 

[Sycamorefan96]

First, you need a consistent source for the information. That 40M for disability is not accurate.
Second, welfare in that figure includes those on social security and let's be honest, no one is complaining about the retirees on social security, even though they make up a significant portion of that number.
Third, many fall under more than one category so adding them all up for a total doesn't work.

Again, it's not as simple as you - and many others, sadly - want to make it.

And the original point was, people are going to have to get comfortable with the idea of people not having to work to live (to receive a subsidy). Now they won't get much, just as people receiving these benefits don't get much, and if you want more you'll have to work for it in all likelihood, and apparently resent those who have less for not having to work at all, even though they may have good reason - a legitimate disability, are of a certain age, are a veteran, are a single parent living below the poverty line, are a kid who'd be hungry otherwise.

Social Security and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) are not the same thing. SSI is welfare, while Social Security is based on what you've paid into it your whole life. SSI is the only program that counts as a welfare program.
I will give you this, it appears that I probably was counting some stuff twice. However at least 65 million people are receiving some sort of handout that they did not earn which is roughly 31% (or nearly a third) of the adult population.

 

[bent20]

Social Security and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) are not the same thing. SSI is welfare, while Social Security is based on what you've paid into it your whole life. SSI is the only program that counts as a welfare program.
I will give you this, it appears that I probably was counting some stuff twice. However at least 65 million people are receiving some sort of handout that they did not earn which is roughly 31% (or nearly a third) of the adult population.

Inaccurate to say all of them didn't earn it. Many, including some people I know, worked their asses off before declining health prevented them from working. And many more still work but are eligible because of the level of poverty they're in. It's also not enough to provide much in the way of a quality standard of living. It's easy to judge when you haven't had to be in such a situation and you're listening to politicians who can only stay in office by playing off the notion others have it better than you at your expense. Are some just lazy and content to sit around doing nothing in some crappy housing project? Sure, but pretending that's all of them and that it's half the population, or anywhere close to it, is just nonsense. Most of the people who quit working after the pandemic were people in two parent households who realized waiting tables isn't worth it when all it's doing is covering daycare, which you could provide by simply staying home.