The Doyle column

[bent20]

Interesting article from Golden today (my apologies if this was already posted elsewhere and I missed it). I found the comments about the Doyel column and it's impact behind the scenes interesting. Also interesting that Prettyman didn't think Doyel did a good job of relaying what he shared with him in the interview.

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/loca...cle_53dcad8e-ddd4-5bbd-97c5-a40e61fc8dc5.html

From the article: Sanford said the Doyel column unquestionably had an adverse effect on ISU’s recruiting through the meat of the recruiting period in December, January and early February.
“I think it was more of a deal when we were ramping into recruiting mode. Some people we compete against in recruiting tried to use it against us,” Sanford said.

I find this comment from Sanford interesting as the argument from many Indy based ISU alums has been that more coverage from the Star will improve our recruiting. Maybe, but not when you get one article about our program's future being in question and then no more coverage even when we make the playoffs. Nothing more from Doyel. Not a damn thing!

Also, it seems the article was prompted by questions Doyel received from TWO alums at ISU. Bet he got ideas for other articles, too.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Thanks for linking that. I hadn't been able to read it. I guess we should be careful what we ask for from journalists...

 

[bent20]

I'm probably not being fair to Doyel. Reading that just irked me. Be thorough with your coverage or don't provide any at all is what I would ask. Not sure the emails reveal a whole lot really other than it sounds like Bradley is the one who would prefer not to start a public dialogue about the program's future.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

I'm probably not being fair to Doyel. Reading that just irked me. Be thorough with your coverage or don't provide any at all is what I would ask. Not sure the emails reveal a whole lot really other than it sounds like Bradley is the one who would prefer not to start a public dialogue about the program's future.

Writers like Doyle start their stories with a predetermined angle. They then selectively use info, quotes, etc., to make their point. I get that he's an opinion guy, but it would be nice for him to come back and say, "Here's what I didn't tell you."

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Good evening,

I will never appologize for reaching out to Doyel. I approached him about several story ideas, this is the one he was most interested in writing about. I didn't state the football program would be cut or should be cut, I linked my own concerns to what has happened over the last couple years throughout the entire NCAA landscape.

I love Indiana State deeply and wouldn't do anything to set the program or the University back. If it caused recruiting cocerns and us to lose some recruits I am deeply sorry for that. In fact, coach goes to my church so next time I see him (its better than an email), I will personally appologize about that and will tell him that I personally reached out to Doyle to write the article and why I did it.

The thing is, I don't hide behind a name on here - I am one of the few people on this forum with an actual avatar photo of myself. When Doyle wrote the article he asked me if he could quote me, I said without a doubt. I came on here the day after and stated such. I live, work and play in this community, I have weekly interaction with the school, coaches, student athletes and administration. I haven't tried to hide from my email to him as I had nothing to hide from. I say this only to prove, I had more at risk and stake - my own personal reputation was on the line, I put it on the line for my school.

The intent of the article was NOT to damn the program or hurt recruiting and the fact that it was an adverse unintended consequence is hurtful to me.

Lost in all this conversation and the Tribune Star piece is an article by Doyel that contained a lot of factual information about real issues facing this university and several others across the country. After UAB cut its football program at seasons end I publically watched the meltdown of players and fans alike - it was a sad reality. When I wrote Doyle I made up my mind that I wasn't going to sit back and watch a similar train wreck happen here in my hometown and to my University. I decided (for better or worse) to take matters into my own hands and do something about it. I decided it long before the UAB story broke, it happens and it is a fact or life - if our alums, former players, parents and local business owners don't step up and do something we could be the next UAB and that is a fact based opinion.

I will not appologize for that, for my actions were just. I make it personal every single day when it comes to Indiana State. I challenge you or anyone else to walk in those shoes and not hide behind the screen or an article in some paper! This ain't just my University, it's our University and if you love it as much as I then you too will find a way to make it a better school!

Go Sycamores!

James Twitchell
"Not just a blogger"

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Good evening,

I will never appologize for reaching out to Doyel. I approached him about several story ideas, this is the one he was most interested in writing about. I didn't state the football program would be cut or should be cut, I linked my own concerns to what has happened over the last couple years throughout the entire NCAA landscape.

I love Indiana State deeply and wouldn't do anything to set the program or the University back. If it caused recruiting cocerns and us to lose some recruits I am deeply sorry for that. In fact, coach goes to my church so next time I see him (its better than an email), I will personally appologize about that and will tell him that I personally reached out to Doyle to write the article and why I did it.

The thing is, I don't hide behind a name on here - I am one of the few people on this forum with an actual avatar photo of myself. When Doyle wrote the article he asked me if he could quote me, I said without a doubt. I came on here the day after and stated such. I live, work and play in this community, I have weekly interaction with the school, coaches, student athletes and administration. I haven't tried to hide from my email to him as I had nothing to hide from. I say this only to prove, I had more at risk and stake - my own personal reputation was on the line, I put it on the line for my school.

The intent of the article was NOT to damn the program or hurt recruiting and the fact that it was an adverse unintended consequence is hurtful to me.

Lost in all this is an article that contained a lot of factual information about real issues facing this university and several others across the country. After UAB cut its football program at seasons end I publically watched the meltdown of players and fans alike - it was a sad reality. When I wrote Doyle I made up my mind that I wasn't going to sit back and watch a similar train wreck happen here in my hometown and to my University. I decided (for better or worse) to take matters into my own hands and do something about it.

I will not appologize for that, for my actions were just. I make it personal every single day when it comes to Indiana State. I challenge you or anyone else to walk in those shoes and not hide behind the screen or an article in some paper!

Go Sycamores!

James Twitchell
"Not just a blogger"

SSOM, I don't think anyone could question your loyalty to, or love for ISU. I know I don't. In fact, I'd say that there is no one on here that wishes anything but the best for all of ISU. Anyone from ISU that is reading this, don't you dare use this as an opportunity to denigrate the fans you've got here. Trust me, you could use 10,000 more just like us.

I think what I've learned from this is that you just cannot trust journalists. They have their own angle, and they'll twist the facts to make it fit their own agenda. The Indy media will never write a positive article about ISU. It is what it is.

But ISU could be a little more forthcoming with info, too. Let's make this thing work together! We all want ISU to be successful.

 

[Bluethunder]

Bottom line, SSOM doesn't owe anyone an apology as far as I am concerned.

It is an uncomfortable conversation to have and one nobody wants to face, but it has to take place.

The same people who might complain about the timing of it or whether or not it should have taken place would most likely be the same people who would say, "How come we didn't know there was a problem?" after some sort of UAB type event. (Not directed at anyone on this site)

Ignoring a problem isn't a solution.

 

[bent20]

Who is blaming the alums who reached out to him? All I pointed out was that it was TWO people who raised a concern to him about the future of the program. Apparently he wasn't getting multiple emails about it.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

No one, but that was a constant "point of contention" throughout the article. Certainly a little more to the story than a 28 year old anxiety ridden alum. Suggesting such is nothing short or dishonesty and a step back-ward.

I've had more than one conversation with Ron Prettyman since that article and not once has he brought it up to me - if someone feels as if it was a back-stabbing move they can talk to me about it personally.

Rather than acknowledge that we do have some issues to address and that our fans and alums do need to be more involved this article by the Tribune Star is nothing more than attempt to brush it under the rug.

It should be noted, I had a personal phone conversation with Doyel and exchanged several emails including several "source" to clearly communicate my concern with the NCAA and how it relates to the future of Indiana State football and I attempted to help him write the article in a way that would "rally the troops" and to start a conversation before dooms day came rather than waiting to have that conversation after it happened. I tried to provide him with sources and information that would point him in a certain direction - plus he had little to no background information on Indiana State.

We had several long threads or communication about th NCAA, buy games, power confrences and how all of that related to Indiana State football - it was a little more than a few "fans".

 

[niklz62]

Much of this comes down to how much space they have on a piece of paper and how bad the writer wants to completely explain what they are trying to explain.

Has there ever been a program dropped in any sport where there was a big lead up to it? I cant think of one that was recent. I remember EIU dropping their wrestling program seemingly happened overnight....of course there was a bring back the program sentiment that still exists so the fallout of these things will drag out but I doubt many people will know much before anything bad happens.

 

[Westbadenboy]

while the details and comments here about both articles are interesting and perhaps reflect some media bias or lack of reporting the "whole" story (is that news to anyone ?) the real hard truth for all who really care about ISU sports is .........................? ? ?
Are there really enough folks who are ISU fans to support a Div I basketball and football program ? I know there had to be a period of rebuilding from the disasters of a few years ago. And I am so impressed with what our coaches and players have accomplished given the limited funds we have -- I'd say they may have accomplished more with less than just about any college in the nation. We have made strides -- the Forest has been a very nice success story for basketball games, but we had to have fundraiser to get new uniforms. We've had nice records in both FB and BB, but my god the stadium and Hulman Center need big money -- do we need to have big bake sale next fall ?
Attendance at BB was up some the past 4 years (the crowd vs WSU was awesome -- but why why why didn't many of them come back ? ? ? ?) but with 4 local players on the team and those winning records ISU had to be anticipating consistent crowds in the 7000 -- 9000; not just a couple of them. That never happened. And this year -- the UNI game was a prime example -- yes off to a poor season start, but having a pretty good MVC record -- playing one of the top teams in the nation and if there were 4000 actual folks in the seats I'd be surprised. Win and folks will come everyone said the past few years ....................really ?
Football attendance is a disaster. Some of the best teams and most exciting players we've every had and we can't get close to 10,000 in the stadium at Homecoming ? Four games vs Big Ten teams in the past three years and we came close to winning 3 of them and all we can get at Memorial Stadium on a consistent basis is about 3500 -- 4000 fans. Hell the reason we don't have night games is not the poor lights -- truth is we probably could not pay the light bill !
What the NCAA is doing is real crap, screw ups by past ISU folks really hurt, yes Terre Haute is not a wealthy town, and on and on.
But folks if only about 3000 -- 5000 people care enough to pay some of the cheapest tickets prices in the nation to see ISU play in the best mid-major basketball league and the toughest FCS conference in the United States ...............well, I don't see how we managed to even stay afloat.
You think these articles hurt recruiting ? ? ? Imagine a potential recruit showing up at an ISU game to see the place 70% empty !
The answer ----- to have any real impact ----- get people off their butts and to the games ............consistently .............in good size numbers. How ? Beer, better lighting, cool videos, advertising, promotions, Blue outs/Black outs/White outs/Purple outs, replace seats -- all that is fine.
But what ISU needs is ..................................................................FANS. Period.
I'll be driving about an hour and half next Wednesday to see us upset Wichita, if there are really 8000 -- 9000 ISU FANS Hulman Center will be jumping. I fear there will only be our 4500 FANS and another 1500 or so folks curious to see Wichita.
We need FANS ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[Bally #50]

It's late and I need to get to bed but I can say WBB, that without a doubt, the LIGHTS are not adequate for any kind of night game. I attended the last night game and I thought the whole stadium had a brown-out. Not too sure what happened when they replaced the old ones but i'd say they basically bought the wrong lighting. (like replacing 100 watt bulbs with 45 watt). I am almost positive that they paid to have over half of them replaced that had burnt out over the years but we never turned them on for a couple of years and when we did, it was too late to bitch about them. (theory only). We played in excellent lighting from 67-71 as we have 2-4 night games a year. Like everything else, we can't afford to replace the "dim" lighting, however it happened.

 

[new sycamore fan]

I agree completely with what WBB said. FANS make all the difference in the world. My take is that last year would have been the second playoff in the last 4 years if FANS would have shown up to the SIU game in 2011 with a playoff appearance on the line--but only about 2,000 showed up. And this was on Senior Day for the kids who took their lumps and persevered and helped bring some respect back to the program! Last season, I fully expected us to finally reach the 10,000 mark for Homecoming for a team on the rise--nowhere close. I've been to every home game for the last 7 years and every away game for the last 4, and have become a real fan of FCS football in the process, but realize that game attendence is down almost everywhere and this is a sign of the times. Really unfortunate and not really understandable because the games are a great form of entertainment at a very cheap price. Noone can convince me that ticket prices keep anyone away--I don't care how depressed the economy is. There are issues with the communication in the athletic department--for the last game this past season there was a promotion to buy tickets to give away to kids or families--I bought 40 tickets for this, and when I went to the will call to get my players passes, all 40 tickets were handed to me?? I asked about the promotion, and why the tickets were at will call for me rather than distributed in the community, and the person in the will call booth looked at me like I had 2 heads? I will continue to hope more fans show up, and will continue to spend money on the program, but more outreach is sorely needed!

 

[Westbadenboy]

Bally the "light bill" comment was a sarcastic joke ...........dahhhhh

 

[Westbadenboy]

Look my point is very simple ------ ISU HAS and quite frankly ALWAYS has HAD only about 4000 -- 5000 FANS ............TRUE FANS. With some good teams we packed the old arena in BB -- moved into Hulman Center and with rare exception that same number (yes I know different people) has shown up for almost every game since we opened with Purdue in the 1970's. Sure, put a local kid on the team for the best four years in ISU history and that bumps up about 1000. Bring in the best college player in history and halfway through his first season we finally get some decent crowds followed by great crowds for a couple of years. But aside for those exceptions we floated down to our 4000 -- 5000 FANS.
In the 70's -- with only 2- 3 college games available on TV each week we did get really good crowds for us for a few years, but into the 80's that changes ------Hell check the attendance for those FCS playoff games in the 80's ! We played Tulsa at home in a huge game, with good weather and had about 5000 there.
I love ISU -- often when I'm back I spend time on campus walking around with good memories. But I taught school for 40 yrs with probably 35 ISU alums in my school system ----- probably only 3-4 of them EVER came back to a game.
I'm pissed about it, I hate it, I feel sorry for the players & coaches, I loved the atmosphere last year vs Wichita (I wish that night had gone on for 10 hours -- same for that first IU game a few years ago !).
But guys ..............we are who we are ............... a mid-size college with about 4000 -- 5000 true FANS.

 

[Bally #50]

Bally the "light bill" comment was a sarcastic joke ...........dahhhhh

Hell, I know you were. It does present a problem (the issue that they are barely usable) because the early night games drew pretty decent crowds and anything that could improve the atmosphere should carry some weight. I'll never forget the original big screen they set up on the NW corner of the stadium (it was moved from the Hulman Center scoreboard) in the last game played at night. I think it was the Quincy loss in 2009 but literally, the big screen threw more light on that section of the field than the lights directly above it. It was embarrassing. To make things worse, the lights under the stands didn't work either and you had to walk to the men's room in the dark.

 

[Observer]

Hell, I know you were. It does present a problem (the issue that they are barely usable) because the early night games drew pretty decent crowds and anything that could improve the atmosphere should carry some weight. I'll never forget the original big screen they set up on the NW corner of the stadium (it was moved from the Hulman Center scoreboard) in the last game played at night. I think it was the Quincy loss in 2009 but literally, the big screen threw more light on that section of the field than the lights directly above it. It was embarrassing. To make things worse, the lights under the stands didn't work either and you had to walk to the men's room in the dark.

ISU as a school is improving. Enrollment is up and the campus continues to look better. So in my view, it would be worth a try to attempt to sign a local star or two in every recruiting class. Local stars would generate local interest. Case in point: Nicole Anderson. How could women's basketball not have recruited her as a top priority? Jake Odems and Rheagin Smith"s success at ISU proves local talent can play. There are many examples of recruiting over local stars and then wondering why there is not more local fan support at ISU. Sports is business. Successful businesses master marketing concepts and strategies. Winning + marketing = fan support.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

ISU as a school is improving. Enrollment is up and the campus continues to look better. So in my view, it would be worth a try to attempt to sign a local star or two in every recruiting class. Local stars would generate local interest. Case in point: Nicole Anderson. How could women's basketball not have recruited her as a top priority? Jake Odems and Rheagin Smith"s success at ISU proves local talent can play. There are many examples of recruiting over local stars and then wondering why there is not more local fan support at ISU. Sports is business. Successful businesses master marketing concepts and strategies. Winning + marketing = fan support.

I'm not sure I understand...

Indiana State historically speaking has almost always recruited well locally. It's not like we are in a position to be real picky, if you have a good kid locally then you pretty much have to make a run at them. Of course it doesn't always happen like that, but it most cases we recruit locally fairly well. The problem is, that doesn't always result in an increase in attendance.

Once again, the University as a whole needs to shoulder the bulk of responsibility. This idea of creating a scapegoat for any negative publicity or lack of attendance or lack of this or that has to stop! Indiana State needs to start taking responsibility and not throwing it's own fans under the bus for speaking out. You want to be big time then act big time!

You all can talk about crowd sizes and what not all you want. Just understand something, if these "buy games" ever really go away then D1 AA Football programs like Indiana State are going to be in trouble. That is what the Tribune Star failed to tough on and to be perfectly honest, that was one of the main points that Doyel attempted to convey in his article was how important these games are to Indiana State and the future of our program.

From the Indy Star article:

The richest conferences have discussed taking their money-making machine and hiding it, refusing to schedule FCS schools like Indiana State, which has one guaranteed game on each of its next three schedules – at Purdue in 2015 for $450,000, Minnesota in 2016 for $475,000 and Tennessee in 2017 for $500,000, according to the Star's Mark Alesia.

One such payday a year covers roughly 4 percent of the ISU athletic department's budget, so while losing it would hurt -- and Prettyman doesn't think those games would go away entirely -- it wouldn't be a death knell. What would be a potential death knell? Multiple legal actions facing college football now, most notably two separate lawsuits against the NCAA filed by college athletes seeking a free marketplace, and a case before the National Labor Relations Board from Northwestern football players asking to be recognized as employees with the right to unionize. Those are being contested at the highest levels of college sports, but the trickle-down would reach FCS schools like Indiana State.

The other more important point of the article that was communicated was our alumni need to be more involved and understand what is happening here. The message wasn't that football would or should be shut down, it was that it could be shut down if certain people don't step up and acknowledge that they have a problem - Indiana State I am talking to you.

This column here, this isn't an attempt at sensationalism. Run for the hills, they're shutting down Indiana State football! I'm not saying that. What I'm saying, what I'm doing, is trying to include in the conversation those Indiana State alumni who aren't talking about the football program's future, who don't understand what is happening around college football and what it could all mean for the Sycamores.

Our city, Indianapolis, matters greatly to Indiana State. Of the roughly 60,000 ISU alumni in the state, more than a quarter – 16,000 – are in Indianapolis, according to ISU Alumni Association assistant director Hilary Duncan.

At the Indiana State Foundation, the fundraising arm of the university, they look longingly this way, toward all those alums 75 miles northeast of Terre Haute.

"We have a lot of interested alumni in Indianapolis," says Phil Ness, associate VP for athletics development, "but we need some more of those alums to get in the car on a Saturday afternoon and watch some of our football games. If we can engage that segment of our alumni base – [Indianapolis] is probably the highest standard of living in the state -- then I think things begin to snowball for us."

 

[Bally #50]

ISU as a school is improving. Enrollment is up and the campus continues to look better. So in my view, it would be worth a try to attempt to sign a local star or two in every recruiting class. Local stars would generate local interest. Case in point: Nicole Anderson. How could women's basketball not have recruited her as a top priority? Jake Odems and Rheagin Smith"s success at ISU proves local talent can play. There are many examples of recruiting over local stars and then wondering why there is not more local fan support at ISU. Sports is business. Successful businesses master marketing concepts and strategies. Winning + marketing = fan support.

Of course, I am aware that the school is on the rise. Not too sure Observer what the stadium lighting has to do with signing local recruits. It could be argued that we quite possibly have OVER recruited in the Terre Haute area but at the very least, I think we could agree we have had success doing that in the past few years, in both football and basketball. You would think that having all this local talent would show at the gate in both sports in actuality, it would seem that having that local talent has not converted to many more fans in the stands. Now, maybe you can explain what stadium lights have to do with all of this.

 

[treeman]

i think that historically being the worst program in division 1 football and not having a winning season in basketball for what? 20 years? is the reason for our fan base. Think about it, we had a 20 year period that our university had nothing to be proud of athletically, except maybe a few things here or there. i would be a lot of money that there will be a higher percentage of students that become "die-hards" than if they went to school in the 90's.