Thoughts on Sycamores vs. Bears Rd. 2

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SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Let me start out by saying I did not watch the entire game - I had my front door half open (to my front porch) and had the radio on the entertainment system cranked to Sycamores while I made a snow wall and spelled out "Free Beer" with empty cans off set by my two Sycamore flags. It's sweet! ahaha So I listed to the entire game, but please correct me if you all have something to add. The Sycamore now on a 5 game slide, the good news is we didn't quit in this game and played 40 minutes. We only turned the ball over a few times in the first half and in the second half reached that number in the first min. of the second half. We rebounded the ball pretty well all day, have to think if we take care of the rock and get a few calls we win today? I thought the Sycamores actually played pretty good basketball today, it wasn't enough for the win and the avalanche (thought it was appropriate considering the weather) is to 5 games. Ouch!

Odum: Much talk about his decision making at the end of the game and from our angle on the internet it looked like he should have shot the ball as it was he was trying to make a big play for his team and the end result was a turnover (only his second of the game) and game over. He ended up with 18pts, 5 rbs., 5 asst. Solid effort and he had some big shots with under 4 min. to play in the game to keep the Sycamores close.

Lathan: Played pretty big minutes for the Sycamores today. By now we know he's going to play and we know what we are going to get. If you said 3 turnovers most of us would take the over and Vegas would call that safe money. Outside of the fact that he continues to struggle on offense, he did have 3 steals, 5 rbs and 3blks today. On the flip side only 4 points on 1 of 6 shooting in 30 minutes is not good.

Richard: Carl rebounded the ball pretty well today, he nearly had another double/double. As it would have it he didn't, missed a few bunnies inside off rebounds and that 3 he took under 2 minutes wasn't the best shot we could have gotten. Carl has played well for us and if I am in a realistic frame of mind I'd probably say he is our best player on most nights. Today he wasn't and especially with Kelly out we needed him to get to double figures.

Kelly: That brings me nicely to Jake Kelly, I'd love an explanation on him not playing today? He came up lame the other night after the home loss to WSU and that might have had something to do with. Part of me hopes that had something to do with it, because if he didn't play a HUGE conference game for the Sycamores because of the flu (yet was on the bench) I have a problem with that. If he's that sick then get his ass off the bench.

Carter: Got his shot going a little bit today and the Sycamores needed that. He had a huge 3 late in the game and hopefully he is able to get his confidence going with some big makes today. With all that being said when AC get's to trying to do to much he turns the ball over (sometimes as much as Lathan) and he had 3 big ones today. He usually gets a pass because he works his butt off the entire game, but man you have been playing ball to long to be that careless with the ball.

Martin: In all fairness to him I didn't see what (if he even got in) he did in the first half? What I did see from him in the second half wasn't much of anything - saw him try and make a post move and got owned late in the game. Would probably have liked to see him kick it out. A look at the box score shows 4 points on 2 of 4 shooting in 6 minutes - at least he got up some shots in his limited time on the floor.

Walker: Got into a little foul trouble today, he has actually done a pretty good job staying out of foul trouble this season. If you consider our lack of depth inside and the fact that teams go right at him - I think he does a good job not fouling. He finishes with 8 points, 4 rebounds and 2 blocks - man can't really complain about that.

JP: Continues to struggle to shoot the rock, 1 of 5 shooting for 3 points. Yuck! Had a big turnover that was on top of one that Lathan offered up with under 9 min. to play and really gave the Bears momentum. I've said it before and I will say it again, if he's not shooting the ball well he doesn't offer up much.

RJ: Only played 8 min. today and I believe most of those were in the first half. Did have 2 steals and a made 3 pointer in limited playing time today. I didn't see the game so I can't really tell you what else he did?

Steve: And as I predicted last game his minutes would be cut a significant amount and they were today. Also note that they were cut with Kelly on the bench you have to figure that he's going to see less than 15 min. per game from her on out. Unless he can get his shot going like he did early in the MVC season, we haven't seen that ability to score out of him since he was named MVC Newcomer of the week several weeks ago now.

Lucas E: Gotta give some love to the kid from Marshall, Indiana/Illinois (wait can I do that?) got in the box score early with a 3 point make and a rebound. Only played 5 mins. but he did give us a lift in those short minutes.

I am not sure what else to say, this season had showed some much promise and we have seemingly pissed it all away. You don't hold serve at home you really can't expect to go on the road to places like MSU and win. Other MVC teams have also faltered and the Sycamores have not been able to capitalize. Part of the reason I don't cheer for ANY other teams in the Valley to do anything with them self. It goes to show you, if your own team takes care of business you don't have to worry about other teams. Right now the Sycamores are not taking care of business and it's really frustrating to go from leading the MVC to losing 5 strait. That my friends is called an absolute collapse and it has been a fun one to witness. Moving on now, hope everyone has a safe weekend. I am sure tired of this snow/ice/winter combo!
 
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Let me start out by saying I did not watch the entire game - I had my front door half open (to my front porch) and had the radio on the entertainment system cranked to Sycamores while I made a snow wall and spelled out "Free Beer" with empty cans off set by my two Sycamore flags. It's sweet! ahaha So I listed to the entire game, but please correct me if you all have something to add. The Sycamore now on a 5 game slide, the good news is we didn't quit in this game and played 40 minutes. We only turned the ball over a few times in the first half and in the second half reached that number in the first min. of the second half. We rebounded the ball pretty well all day, have to think if we take care of the rock and get a few calls we win today? I thought the Sycamores actually played pretty good basketball today, it wasn't enough for the win and the avalanche (thought it was appropriate considering the weather) is to 5 games. Ouch!

Odum: Much talk about his decision making at the end of the game and from our angle on the internet it looked like he should have shot the ball as it was he was trying to make a big play for his team and the end result was a turnover (only his second of the game) and game over. He ended up with 18pts, 5 rbs., 5 asst. Solid effort and he had some big shots with under 4 min. to play in the game to keep the Sycamores close.

Lathan: Played pretty big minutes for the Sycamores today. By now we know he's going to play and we know what we are going to get. If you said 3 turnovers most of us would take the over and Vegas would call that safe money. Outside of the fact that he continues to struggle on offense, he did have 3 steals, 5 rbs and 3blks today. On the flip side only 4 points on 1 of 6 shooting in 30 minutes is not good.

Richard: Carl rebounded the ball pretty well today, he nearly had another double/double. As it would have it he didn't, missed a few bunnies inside off rebounds and that 3 he took under 2 minutes wasn't the best shot we could have gotten. Carl has played well for us and if I am in a realistic frame of mind I'd probably say he is our best player on most nights. Today he wasn't and especially with Kelly out we needed him to get to double figures.

Kelly: That brings me nicely to Jake Kelly, I'd love an explanation on him not playing today? He came up lame the other night after the home loss to WSU and that might have had something to do with. Part of me hopes that had something to do with it, because if he didn't play a HUGE conference game for the Sycamores because of the flu (yet was on the bench) I have a problem with that. If he's that sick then get his ass off the bench.

Carter: Got his shot going a little bit today and the Sycamores needed that. He had a huge 3 late in the game and hopefully he is able to get his confidence going with some big makes today. With all that being said when AC get's to trying to do to much he turns the ball over (sometimes as much as Lathan) and he had 3 big ones today. He usually gets a pass because he works his butt off the entire game, but man you have been playing ball to long to be that careless with the ball.

Martin: In all fairness to him I didn't see what (if he even got in) he did in the first half? What I did see from him in the second half wasn't much of anything - saw him try and make a post move and got owned late in the game. Would probably have liked to see him kick it out. A look at the box score shows 4 points on 2 of 4 shooting in 6 minutes - at least he got up some shots in his limited time on the floor.

Walker: Got into a little foul trouble today, he has actually done a pretty good job staying out of foul trouble this season. If you consider our lack of depth inside and the fact that teams go right at him - I think he does a good job not fouling. He finishes with 8 points, 4 rebounds and 2 blocks - man can't really complain about that.

JP: Continues to struggle to shoot the rock, 1 of 5 shooting for 3 points. Yuck! Had a big turnover that was on top of one that Lathan offered up with under 9 min. to play and really gave the Bears momentum. I've said it before and I will say it again, if he's not shooting the ball well he doesn't offer up much.

RJ: Only played 8 min. today and I believe most of those were in the first half. Did have 2 steals and a made 3 pointer in limited playing time today. I didn't see the game so I can't really tell you what else he did?

Steve: And as I predicted last game his minutes would be cut a significant amount and they were today. Also note that they were cut with Kelly on the bench you have to figure that he's going to see less than 15 min. per game from her on out. Unless he can get his shot going like he did early in the MVC season, we haven't seen that ability to score out of him since he was named MVC Newcomer of the week several weeks ago now.

Lucas E: Gotta give some love to the kid from Marshall, Indiana got in the box score early with a 3 point make and a rebound. Only played 5 mins. but he did give us a lift in those short minutes.

I am not sure what else to say, this season had showed some much promise and we have seemingly pissed it all away. You don't hold serve at home you really can't expect to go on the road to places like MSU and win. Other MVC teams have also faltered and the Sycamores have not been able to capitalize. Part of the reason I don't cheer for ANY other teams in the Valley to do anything with them self. It goes to show you, if your own team takes care of business you don't have to worry about other teams. Right now the Sycamores are not taking care of business and it's really frustrating to go from leading the MVC to losing 5 strait. That my friends is called an absolute collapse and it has been a fun one to witness. Moving on now, hope everyone has a safe weekend. I am sure tired of this snow/ice/winter combo!

Odum has played well, but he's cost us at least two games at the end. Now, one always argues that it's more than one play that makes a game, but he missed free throws to ice it at WSU and gave up a gimme layup today. He gave up a gimme at home recently, too. I'm not saying he's not a good player, but some people need to quit drooling over him. He's good, but he's made some HUGE freshmen mistakes that have cost us some games.

We are a much better team without a certain player playing. There. I said what 99.9% of you are thinking.

Fire away. I speak the truth, though.
 
Some styles of play do not fit well with all players, I am starting to think that our style of play does not fit Lathan's skills.
 

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Carl Richard was sick today and still got some good minutes in. A healthy Carl and we win today. This team has lost some very close ones of late. All is not lost. We have Drake and SIU at home and are at SIU, Ill St., and an injury depleted UNI who we already beat by 25. We can finish this season strong and win out in St. Louis. There is no doubt. Some tough decisions must be made for that to happen, though.

We can very realistically finish 11-7 in the Valley and go into St. Louis on a roll.
 
Re: AC's TO's...this is 1st game in awhile where he's put the ball on the floor and attempted penetration, and I really think that although he had 3 TO's, it loosened the Mizzou St "D" on him. The team needs to look for dish/shuttle pass on these drives as an outlet for AC. 6/9 FG is a return to the NORM for AC & a good omen for ISU.
 
Carl Richard was sick today and still got some good minutes in. A healthy Carl and we win today.

Carl has refined his game considerably since his 6/21 FG night in Wichita and I thinks it's a positive step. He's playing CONSISTENTLY within a role that benefits the squad. Just wish others could duplicate his STYLE.
 
"If you consider our lack of depth inside and the fact that teams go right at him - I think he does a good job not fouling."

With this supposed lack of depth inside, why do we not see all of our tall players. Especially in games like Evansville where we were being outrebounded?
 

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Not really sure why Kelly is being singled out here. We have in Terre Haute and we win then we go on the road without him and lose. So Kelly has no value on this team now I guess? He is one of our best/versatile defenders and he gives us much needed depth at guard.

Does he make me want to pull my hair out sometimes? Sure, but if you really think this team is better off with printy, mcw, and eitel coming off the bench then ok but I think Kelly helps us compete with elite teams in the valley and the country. I'll take Kelly playing off the bench against WSU, MSU, CU, and UNI over those guys any day. Printy and Eitel are limited physically and Mcw is a true fr. who looks like he is not ready to take on the big dogs yet.
 
Not really sure why Kelly is being singled out here. We have in Terre Haute and we win then we go on the road without him and lose. So Kelly has no value on this team now I guess? He is one of our best/versatile defenders and he gives us much needed depth at guard.

Does he make me want to pull my hair out sometimes? Sure, but if you really think this team is better off with printy, mcw, and eitel coming off the bench then ok but I think Kelly helps us compete with elite teams in the valley and the country. I'll take Kelly playing off the bench against WSU, MSU, CU, and UNI over those guys any day. Printy and Eitel are limited physically and Mcw is a true fr. who looks like he is not ready to take on the big dogs yet.

You obviously are going to see what you want to see, so no arguing with you. :krazy:
 
"If you consider our lack of depth inside and the fact that teams go right at him - I think he does a good job not fouling."

With this supposed lack of depth inside, why do we not see all of our tall players. Especially in games like Evansville where we were being outrebounded?

Using the word combo "this supposed" do you disagree? Really curious, but I think we did a pretty good job rebounding the ball today. I didn't see the final numbers, but I'm pretty sure we won that battle...
 
Who was it that beat Missouri State at Hulman Center at the buzzer with a three-point play? We need him, whoever he was. We also needed him in the third overtime at Wichita.
 
You obviously are going to see what you want to see, so no arguing with you. :krazy:

Yep right back at ya I guess. Just was looking for you to elaborate on why you think those players I mentioned give us a better chance to win compared to those players plus JK. Guess if someone doesnt agree with you makes them crazy. :meditate:
 

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Who was it that beat Missouri State at Hulman Center at the buzzer with a three-point play? We need him, whoever he was. We also needed him in the third overtime at Wichita.

Ah someone see it. How about the time the trees played top 10 ND on the road very close for most of the game. I think that kid had like 17 pts that night and was the best player for the trees. Yeah he sucks, probably should just tell him to hit the road now and give our younger players some more pt...
 
Yep right back at ya I guess. Just was looking for you to elaborate on why you think those players I mentioned give us a better chance to win compared to those players plus JK. Guess if someone doesnt agree with you makes them crazy. :meditate:

Nah, just giving you a hard time. I get where you're coming from, but looking at how we did with and without, it's tough to argue. I'm in the large majority here. I'm not trying to say your opinion doesn't have merit, but I think if you look at the season as whole, a picture emerges that can't be denied.
 
Teams match-up and play together different as a whole vs. different competition.

Some teams which play an agressive man-to-man, are exposed w/ a dribble drive (ie Jake Kelly Crossover), while those who play a packed zone, are going to be beaten w/ outside shooting.

Something to ponder, is when Jake was @ Iowa, he had a solid interior presence in Cyrus Tate, who do we have that can score inside?????? Answer NO ONE REGULARLY

When Kelly was putting up his number late in his Fresh/Soph years he was asked to take control of the offense and make things happen. Defenses couldn't solely focus on just him, as BigTen teams have 4-5 players of much better caliber than MVC teams. In the MVC you're looking at opponents keying on 1-2 players knowing that they'll "push" w/ the other 5-6 contributers.

Listen to other coaches around the Valley....."Our focus was to limit Kelly's/Lathan's penetration". Don't you think this a factor in their limited performance. Spotlight is on both by opponents and our "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY FANS"
 
Teams match-up and play together different as a whole vs. different competition.

Some teams which play an agressive man-to-man, are exposed w/ a dribble drive (ie Jake Kelly Crossover), while those who play a packed zone, are going to be beaten w/ outside shooting.

Something to ponder, is when Jake was @ Iowa, he had a solid interior presence in Cyrus Tate, who do we have that can score inside?????? Answer NO ONE REGULARLY

When Kelly was putting up his number late in his Fresh/Soph years he was asked to take control of the offense and make things happen. Defenses couldn't solely focus on just him, as BigTen teams have 4-5 players of much better caliber than MVC teams. In the MVC you're looking at opponents keying on 1-2 players knowing that they'll "push" w/ the other 5-6 contributers.

Listen to other coaches around the Valley....."Our focus was to limit Kelly's/Lathan's penetration". Don't you think this a factor in their limited performance. Spotlight is on both by opponents and our "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY FANS"

I think that's a pretty good point and I am really not going to be as hard on Lathan and Kelly as some are. One because I still believe that Kelly is our best all around player and two because I have come to the realization that Lansing believes that Kelly and Lathan give this team the best chance to win ball games and that they are going to be on the floor. It does me no good at this point to get worked up over either of them making mistakes - not to mention as we saw last night, no player (even 13) is immune to making mistakes.

With that being said, the only thing that bothers me is the fact that Kelly didn't play last night because of a flu. "Sorry coach I can't go tonight", is he serious? Why was he on the bench then? This just really bothers me and maybe I am the only one. Because if I am Jake Kelly here is my mindset, my 60% (being sick and all) is going to still be better than the other teams 100%. That has to be your mindset, that might not be reality but that has to be your approach. Sitting down and watching a loss happen, I am sorry but that's the easy way out.
 
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