Thoughts on Sycamores vs. Drake Rd. 2

[SycamoreStateofMind]

The Sycamores came out of the gates awfully flat, the first 5 minutes or so of the game was a disaster. From then on out I actually thought we played pretty well. We had 9 players play over 10 minutes today and 11 total players got minutes and actually down the stretch I thought the Sycamores were the fresher team. They really didn't do a good job defending us, clearly evident by our 75 total points and 48% shooting from the field. The Sycamores also took care of the ball today, only 8 turnovers and we out rebounded Drake. Clearly the better team won today, this is one that we had to win and it looks like the Sycamores will avoid the play-in game. Outside of Evansville the Sycamores have beat the teams that they should have beat in MVC team play. I really would like another shot at Evansville, I'm not convinced we can't beat them by a bunch. Well here we go!

Odum: What didn't he do today? He was all over the place, as he lead the Sycamores in points, rebounding, steals, assists and well turnovers. A few of them were just bobbled passes and I wouldn't put a few of them on him. But it is what it is, he had 4 turnovers and that was really the only negative in what was otherwise a fantastic game. If he wasn't the best player on the floor tonight I don't know who was? Drake had no answer for him, he could get to the basket anytime he wanted.

Richard: Did a nice job getting to the the line, 9 of his 20 came from the free throw line. He didn't shoot the ball very well (again) from long ranged, missed 2 wide open 3 pointers that you'd like to see him knock down. Carl has been awfully good for the Sycamores this season, he has improved so much from last season to this. We are going to need him to step it up another notch in St. Louis.

RJ: Is it me or does this kid have more fans in the crowd than anyone? The fans love RJ and their has been an awful lot to like. Sometimes he makes mistakes on the defnesive end and they kind of go at him but he played pretty well tonight. He missed a couple open 3s, so he was far from perfect. He had a nice block (not shown in the box score) toward the end of the game that bounced off the Drake player and the rest was history.

AC: He played 23 minutes and didn't do jack today, he had one rebound, no assists, steals, blocks or turnovers. What he did do was draw a lot of attention from Drake defenders. Teams have made a decision not to let AC beat them and AC did a nice job of not forcing anything today. Somebody is going to let him get away and he's going to go off before the seasons over.

JP: Looked pretty good during a few minutes stretch in the first half, then he kinda disappeared in the second half as the JP disappearing act continuities. Had a nice little pass at the end of the game to RJ for a lay-up, other than that he only played 13 minutes.

Walker: Probably one of the worst games I have seen him have, he was clearly frustrated from that missed dunk in transition in the first half. Might I add that we might make Sports Center again this year, this time Not So Top 10 on that dunk. He did a little better job rebounding the ball tonight and he added 2 steals. He really needs to find a way to not get so frustrated, he always looks pissed off when he's playing ball? Just an observation...

Martin: He gave us a pretty good lift tonight, added 3 blocks and gave us good energy off the bench. At this point in the season we have a pretty good idea that Martin is not going to play anything North of 20 minutes a game, however if he can continue to play well in limited action he as a role on this team. You don't have to agree with that role, but it is what it is at this point in the season.

Steve: He looked for his shot a little better tonight, still missed a few wide open looks that he had been hitting earlier in the season but at least he was more aggressive tonight. Had a great pass in the first half to Richard for the bucket plus 1.

Lathan: Played much less tonight than he has since he's been back from injury. Has he knocked down a shot (not a layup) in the last 3 weeks? On a lighter note someone mentioned in the game thread that they'd be surprised if Lathan started this week? I don't know if I'd go that far, but if they do start someone else I would like to see RJ get the start. I think he's earned a look.

Lucas: Got him some more minutes tonight, didn't like seeing him pass up that wide open 3 pointer on good ball movement. He's got to have the confidence to knock that shot down. Easy for me to say when I'm not the one riding the pine and trying to do anything and everything he can not to get put on the bench.


Good win for the Sycamores in front of a crowd that was about as unenthusiastic as I have been about this winter weather we have had this year. This pretty much does away with my "it costs to much for people in Terre Haute to go to a game theory", unless they can't afford gas money? lol The game was free people? And I have nothing to say about the students, waste of my time and energy. I aint discussing student attendance on this forum ever again.

3 to go, let's keep this building on these last 2 wins and maybe we can have some confidence heading into St. Louis. I think the Sycamores could steal these next 3 games and be sitting awfully pretty. If the Sycamores have been anything this season it's up and down, so it wouldn't really surprise me to see us win out.

 

[Southgrad07]

Thoughts on Drake vs State part 2

Usually done by SSOM but I dont see anything yet so guess ill try and fill in.

Odum- Is there anything that needs to be said here? Continues to show why he is going to lead this program back to the NCAA's in a few years. Only thing i'll say is he did have 4 turnovers but 2 or 3 of them were because our guys simply could not handle the pass or werent ready for it. Also could of had another 3 or 4 assists tonight if people would of hit some easy shots.

Richard- Solid effort by our other leader today. 20 points and got to the line a ton. Only 4 rebounds but still a solid game from 15. Good sign that he can have a quiet 20 for us.

Mahurin- Big minutes off the bench for us today. Hit a 3 ball and was active on the defensive end. Really like how he has progressed this season and now he is getting meaningful minutes at the end of the games.

Martin- Great effort by the senior today. I've said it all years and today is another example of why Martin should get more minutes on this team. Im amazed as to why lansing will not play him more (and im not alone when he took Martin out in the second half about 5 people in my area said why are you taking him out again!) but nonetheless great game from him today. Blocked shots and even gave us some offense.

McWhorter- Still did not score the ball for us today but his defensive effort is back to where it was mid season and that is what we need from him this year. If he can continue to be a plus defender and steady ball handler for us then he is doing his job.

Printy- Looked good in the first half and then dissappeared in the second. JP is what he is.. a shooter and like SSOM says after every game he needs to look to shoot or he is kind of useless out there.

Carter- Pretty quiet game out of Carter. Got into early foul trouble and maybe that had something to do with it. Got fouled on another 3 point attempt, never seen anyone get fouled on as many 3's as he has. We will need him to play a bigger role come tourney time.

Lucas Eitel- Anyone else surprised at how good of a defender he is for a walk on? He is almost as good as Steve in that department, would not mind seeing him grab minutes from here on out. He rarely hurts the team out there.

Walker- The big fella had another rough outing. He really needs to focus on making the ball go through the basket on dunk attempts instead of trying to rip the goal down. He has missed more than a handful of dunks this season because of it. Also did not like the elbow he threw today. I know he gets hammered down there but hes gotta learn responding like that is not helping the team. Also anyone else confused as to how we go from a foul being called on them then after looking at a monitor the call is a foul being called on them then a dead ball foul on Walker, Wedel shooting free throws (he wasnt even the one Walker elbowed), and them getting the ball after the free throws???

Koang Only played 9 minutes but got 3 boards for us. He gives us energy off the bench but makes some bonehead mistakes as well. Will probably continue to see only sporadic playing time and thats ok.

Lathan- Got the start today and got 5 boards in only 18 minutes. Thats about the only good thing I have to say. He has value in certain spots but Im glad that in crunch time Lansing is not playing him. Also he did not look very happy sitting on the bench during the last part of the second half.

Lansing- Solid job by the coach today. He really has done a very good job here and I like his recruiting so far as well. Love the way he works the sidelines too. He will chew into the refs but not on every bad call (like drakes coach does), he likes to pick and choose his battles with the officials and thats the kind of coach I like.

Thats all I got. We took care of business and looks like we will avoid thursday. Most important thing is we keep getting better and taking care of business before St. Louis.

 

[Southgrad07]

Didnt see SSOM did one someone can delete the thread!

 

[BankShot]

Yo, SSOM...

Sorry, but I've fallen and I can't get up (sound familiar?) I was laying on my couch, munching & sudsing to WTWO & ISU/Drake when I fell asleep and rolled off the couch. Damn local TV, you'd think they'd do something about this health threat. Don't try to push me to go to Hulman Center either...too damn far to drive from Terre Haute and there's no parking. You'd think that maybe they'd build a parking garage or something. Also, those damn orange seats hurt my eyes...reminds me of Spring Break '70 in Daytona, when we camped under an orange tree sipping Ripple wine all night.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Walker- The big fella had another rough outing. He really needs to focus on making the ball go through the basket on dunk attempts instead of trying to rip the goal down. He has missed more than a handful of dunks this season because of it. Also did not like the elbow he threw today. I know he gets hammered down there but hes gotta learn responding like that is not helping the team. Also anyone else confused as to how we go from a foul being called on them then after looking at a monitor the call is a foul being called on them then a dead ball foul on Walker, Wedel shooting free throws (he wasnt even the one Walker elbowed), and them getting the ball after the free throws???
.

Thanks for filling in for me - I got home from the game late and it's always great to read another perspective!

Walker was fouled on the floor, thus we would have just taken the ball out. They called a T on Walker, not a personal foul. Thus they got to pick the shooter and they get the ball. That's my guess on to what happened, I don't know what else it could have been?

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Didnt see SSOM did one someone can delete the thread!

Don't delete the thread, this is good shit here! Someone can merge the two of them if they want - but no reason to delete this! People get tired of reading what I have to say anyway! lol

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Yo, SSOM...

too damn far to drive from Terre Haute and there's no parking. You'd think that maybe they'd build a parking garage or something.

You are kidding about this right? Wait, you were kidding about the entire thing right? Just making sure, considering their is a parking garage next to the HC.

 

[TreeTop]

Thanks for the post SSOM, I enjoyed reading your summaries after each game.

Regarding student attendance....it was hard to tell on the stream what the student turnout was, but let's be fair....they were at the games during the 6 game win streak. Then we lost five in a row....now we're back to winning and we're re-building that relationship with students.

Next year when we've won 20 games by this point in the season, we'll find that we've had awesome turnouts by both students and community the whole season.

 

[Daveinth]

Not sure of the exact numbers on the students but very poor. The effort of the team was great JO is doing great things . Thinking of the McDermott and Jake Qdum battles we will be lucky to enjoy for the next three years makes for an exciting thoughts of the future. McWhorter makes for a great compliment . Many people worry about this team this year as I have as well I honestly think we win out and grab that #3 seed in St Louis . Carl did his usual I think his points were very quit today I looked up and asked how did he score so many . Myles is so intense he gets pounded underneath and needs to learn to watch his temper . I know he got frustrated with the lack of calls underneath today but that Technical could have hurt us worse than it did we got lucky Lathan has all this talent but at this point is hurting the team more than helpinghe rarely hits a jumper, or passes the ball. Early in the 2nd half he penetrates the ball and while trying to force his shot gets called for 3 seconds . Printy Shot the ball well in the short time he was in the game in the 1st half but was pulled and sat for a long period of time which only hurts a player. He was sitting while Eitel was playing in the 2nd half I didnt understand this decsion JP does little to hurt us and Eitel passed a wide open 3 pointer when we turned the ball over for a shot clock violation. Martin Gave us much needed spark off the bench at a time when Myles was struggling. I know someone mentioned JK I saw him at the end of the bench at the beginning of the game .
Overall a good win and we are now on a 2 game win streak season is far from over and we can look forward to an exciting end of the regular season as well as a deep run in St Louis

 

[Sycamore Proud]

Sorry I couldn't make it today, but I have an observation from what I've read. I have absolutely no problem with Odum's points/turnovers. I'll gladly take 20 TO's a game if they come from 5 different players with 20 points each. It seems to me that a man who is much respected at ISU had a totally different philosophy on TO's. John Wooden once said that if you didn't have 20 TO's a game you weren't putting enough pressure on the defense--you weren't trying to do enough with the ball. Of course he was at UCLA when he felt that way; I wish I could remember what year it was. Maybe attitudes change with different circumstances.

 

[bent20]

I think it's safe to say that Odum and Richard are the official leaders/stars of the team now. That's encouraging going into next season. Could be even more encouraging if Lathan gets his confidence back before the end of the season. He's not a bad player, folks. He's had a rough year, but I think we all need to hope he can still find a rhythm within this team.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Sorry I couldn't make it today, but I have an observation from what I've read. I have absolutely no problem with Odum's points/turnovers. I'll gladly take 20 TO's a game if they come from 5 different players with 20 points each. It seems to me that a man who is much respected at ISU had a totally different philosophy on TO's. John Wooden once said that if you didn't have 20 TO's a game you weren't putting enough pressure on the defense--you weren't trying to do enough with the ball. Of course he was at UCLA when he felt that way; I wish I could remember what year it was. Maybe attitudes change with different circumstances.

Don't apologize, actually let me apologize I've been told by many on here that I am bias when it comes to Odum and that I don't hold him to the same measuring stick as I do other players, that I defend him way to much. Such observations might be true, so probably a little bit of my review is protecting myself from getting criticized for being overly complementary of one player. Granted I do these reviews knowing that it will generate some kind of conversation, sometimes positive sometimes negative. I can remember distinctly someone on here telling me that Jake Odum, "wasn't the second coming of anyone".

With all that being said - Jake Odum was trying to create and make things happen. He made several good passes that were not capitalized on with made shots, you will have that though - can't make every shot. I would say his 4 assists off-set his 4 turnovers pretty well. I guess my only point was, that is an unusually high number of turnovers for him. He usually is less aggressive and subsequently takes care of the ball a little better.

 

[bigsportsfan]

We were down 6-2 early, and then scored seven points in a row......right after Lathan came out. He is so selfish, has twice as many turnovers as assists.............I don't blame Lansing for not playing him in crunch time.

Also, did the new pyrotechnics bother anybody else? Indoor firecrackers are way too loud. I hope they get rid of that crap.

And, why in the world do we have to heave a 25-footer at the shot clock buzzer so much? If that was our strategy, it was a dumb one. If it was just Odum waiting too long, we need to tell him to pick it up a little. (We'll still keep him, though.) I would estimate we shot with three seconds or less on the shot clock 8-10 times. Way too many.

 

[Gotta Hav]

Odum is going to be a star for ISU, and I could dribble on about the accolades for him and the future all MVC team recognition and MVP awards that he's going to receive in his career.....but if I was coaching Odum, there are parts of his game, that I would put an instant stop to.

Number one on my hot list of you're never going to that again is, or you're running HC steps in practice is. I would put a stop to that Junior High, drive the baseline move where he leaves his feet and then he hopes to God Almighty that someone is open, while suspended in mid-air.

Does he actually do that in practice, and Lansing is okay with it?
When does that move really work, for anyone?
Who on this forum teaches that move, or encourages that with their own teams, children or grandchildren?

And yes, I understand Odum only had 4 TO's today, but he maybe could have had 1 or none!!! He had three no look behind the back pass things today, that no one saw coming, but him. Those passes looked so bad and so surprising to the other players on the court, it was like they wanted to say, "hey, you don't do that crap in practice, why are you doing it during a game?" I'm not saying there's not a time and place for fancy pants passing, there is, but when you select that option....its got to be the 100% option that works. Not some Carnival or Circus trick move that you hope and pray comes out okay. Game time, is not experiment time.

Also, how many times do we have to run the 35 second clock down to the place where the crowd has to start 8, 7, 6, 5.... Are you kidding me? When we do that trick on the opponents home court, can you imagine how it fires up the other team and their home crowd? Hell, it makes it look like the other team is playing great defense, and all that is, is us dicking around trying to set up a play.

Anyway, this is all the Odum bashing I'm ever going to do, but for us as a TEAM to reach that next level and for Odum to reach his potential, the off-your-feet and no look passing that's just a hope and prayer, has got to stop.

 

[Bones]

the fireworks are only for the servpro game, it happens every year when chad overton buys out the arena. So I'm not to worried about it. richard and odum are the stars of the team, Jordan Printy created his own shot off the dribble today, that was tight yo. He should get more pt but its nice to see him do something when he is in the game. lathan had some nice drives to the basket, he still has bad hands and he's still raw. Lathan is basically just an athlete who happens to be on scholarship to play bball. If he developed a shot he would be all-conference.

Odum: He can score too! I love this kid, I love his wingspan, his vision, his ability to read the opposing offenses. JO is legit! if he puts in the work necessary to develop his J as a weapon there is no telling what he can turn into. I hope he doesn't remain as a 70 percent free throw shooter... He is more talented than rayvonte rice fosho.

 

[BlueSycamore]

And how the hell does our point guard get ten (10) rebounds in the game? Surely he must have been out of position or something wrong with his game, huh?

 

[LoyalAlum]

Odum is going to be a star for ISU, and I could dribble on about the accolades for him and the future all MVC team recognition and MVP awards that he's going to receive in his career.....but if I was coaching Odum, there are parts of his game, that I would put an instant stop to.

Number one on my hot list of you're never going to that again is, or you're running HC steps in practice is. I would put a stop to that Junior High, drive the baseline move where he leaves his feet and then he hopes to God Almighty that someone is open, while suspended in mid-air.

Does he actually do that in practice, and Lansing is okay with it?
When does that move really work, for anyone?
Who on this forum teaches that move, or encourages that with their own teams, children or grandchildren?

And yes, I understand Odum only had 4 TO's today, but he maybe could have had 1 or none!!! He had three no look behind the back pass things today, that no one saw coming, but him. Those passes looked so bad and so surprising to the other players on the court, it was like they wanted to say, "hey, you don't do that crap in practice, why are you doing it during a game?" I'm not saying there's not a time and place for fancy pants passing, there is, but when you select that option....its got to be the 100% option that works. Not some Carnival or Circus trick move that you hope and pray comes out okay. Game time, is not experiment time.

Also, how many times do we have to run the 35 second clock down to the place where the crowd has to start 8, 7, 6, 5.... Are you kidding me? When we do that trick on the opponents home court, can you imagine how it fires up the other team and their home crowd? Hell, it makes it look like the other team is playing great defense, and all that is, is us dicking around trying to set up a play.

Anyway, this is all the Odum bashing I'm ever going to do, but for us as a TEAM to reach that next level and for Odum to reach his potential, the off-your-feet and no look passing that's just a hope and prayer, has got to stop.

I agree 100% with all of this. Very well said! And not to pick on the kid, just an observation, I think he talks back to the refs too much. He needs to pick and choose his arguments wisely, otherwise he will fall on deaf ears. Just something that I don't like to see him doing as often as he does.

I think he's great, but all these things can be remedied to make him an even bigger asset to the team.

 

[BankShot]

You are kidding about this right? Wait, you were kidding about the entire thing right? Just making sure, considering their is a parking garage next to the HC.

Yes, the whole scene is a parody, playing off the impact of local television upon the psychological health of potential ISU hoop fans. Not sure if RP & Boyz understand, but we're breeding a generation of "stay at home" localz that are simply too 'friggin lazy to get off their ass and drive a few blocks to HC!

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Ok I see what you guys are saying about the jump pass and I understand it's pounded into your head (like not picking up your dribble) as something not to do, only bad things can come from it. Well here is why Odum is an exception to that rule:

He has three things going for him that really make this work, first and foremost he he has excellent body control - he has the ability to hang in the air long enough, twist his body to find someone. Have we seen him travel doing this move yet? From what I have seen about 80% of the time he finds someone open (note: not statistically valid).

Two he has excellent awareness/court vision, so he knows when he's slashing to the rim if he's pulled a defender with him or not - he can feel the pressure. So if a defender has left a player then he knows he's got a dump off. If that option is not available he knows he can kick it out to the 3 point line. He knows where his players are on the floor like any good point guard should.

Three he is creative with the ball, sometimes its a bounce pass, a underhanded bowling like pass, sometimes he puts some crazy spin on it. My point is more often than not I have seen it work for him.

Lastly I just want to say that Odum is special for a reason. He wasn't highly recruited in high school for things like this. Stuff your not supposed to do - does he talk to the refs to much? Yeah maybe so... Does he celebrate after made baskets to much? Yeah maybe so... Does his game have it's own unique personality, absolutely so. Believe it or not it's those imperfections that you all have mentioned that will help him go down in history at Indiana State when everything is said and done.

 

[Daveinth]

I cannot believe you people we are lucky enough to have one of the premiere point guards in our league and you people want to bitch because he threw some no look passes. For many years we have been begging for a player like Jake Odum to come to Indiana State and when we finally do you people want to mess with his passing abilities? Did you even once think that the passes were good his teammates just weren’t talented enough to finish the play? That’s what I seen yesterday at the game. I saw a leader of this team take control of the game and make plays. This is something we have not had in many years we never had it with Marshall we wasn’t even close to having it with Moore. The closest thing in the past ten years we have had to a leader was David Moss and we couldn’t win 50% of our games with him. Does Jake talk to the referees? Yes he does and that’s what good leadership does for you. I have known Jake since he was about 6 years old I can tell you that he is one of the most respectful kids I have ever known I highly doubt that when he is talking to the ref’s he is being disrespectful .
Jake is going to help take this team this school to another level in the Missouri Valley. His talents are above anything we have seen at Indiana State in quite some time and to think he is only in his freshman year. That’s right people he is only a freaking freshman get off his back learn to play ball yourself at his level before you knock the kid for trying …….