To the window, to the wall, 'til the sweat drops down my...

[Chief_Quabachi]

I liked that guy. What happened to him?

I’ve been wondering that also!’

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Grok's recommenation:

Recommendation
ISU should cut its football program and redirect $1–1.5 million of the ~$2–3 million in savings to men’s basketball, with the remainder supporting women’s sports and academic priorities. Football’s lack of cultural significance, poor performance (<10 winning seasons in 40 years), low attendance (<10,000 since the 1980s), and $4.09 million cost make it a financial and strategic liability. The MVC’s non-football focus and the success of non-football MVC peers (e.g., Drake, Loyola Chicago) confirm that ISU can thrive without football, especially by prioritizing basketball, which drives revenue, visibility, and enrollment in Indiana’s basketball-centric culture.
Implementation Steps:

• Phase Out Football: Announce a 2–3 year phase-out to honor current scholarships, minimizing disruption for 115 athletes and avoiding legal issues (estimated cost: $1–1.5 million).
• Invest in Basketball: Allocate $1–1.5 million to men’s basketball for coaching, recruiting, NIL, or Hulman Center upgrades, aiming for NCAA Tournament bids and increased revenue.
• Ensure Title IX Compliance: Use remaining savings to enhance women’s sports (e.g., women’s basketball, volleyball), maintaining equitable opportunities (e.g., add ~50 female athletes to balance the 115 male athletes cut).
• Repurpose Facilities: Convert Memorial Stadium for soccer, community events, or academic use to minimize costs and maximize utility.
• Engage Stakeholders: Highlight basketball’s potential to alumni and fans, leveraging Indiana’s basketball passion to maintain donor support and school spirit.

This approach resolves ISU’s athletic budget woes by eliminating an underperforming program, strengthens its nationally relevant basketball program, and aligns resources with enrollment and cultural realities, all while maintaining MVC competitiveness and Title IX compliance.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

SSOM recommendation 10 years ago:

Recommendation
ISU should cut its football program and redirect $1–1.5 million of the ~$2–3 million in savings to men’s basketball, with the remainder supporting women’s sports and academic priorities. Football’s lack of cultural significance, poor performance (<10 winning seasons in 40 years), low attendance (<10,000 since the 1980s), and $4.09 million cost make it a financial and strategic liability. The MVC’s non-football focus and the success of non-football MVC peers (e.g., Drake, Loyola Chicago) confirm that ISU can thrive without football, especially by prioritizing basketball, which drives revenue, visibility, and enrollment in Indiana’s basketball-centric culture.
Implementation Steps:

• Phase Out Football: Announce a 2–3 year phase-out to honor current scholarships, minimizing disruption for 115 athletes and avoiding legal issues (estimated cost: $1–1.5 million).
• Invest in Basketball: Allocate $1–1.5 million to men’s basketball for coaching, recruiting, NIL, or Hulman Center upgrades, aiming for NCAA Tournament bids and increased revenue.
• Ensure Title IX Compliance: Use remaining savings to enhance women’s sports (e.g., women’s basketball, volleyball), maintaining equitable opportunities (e.g., add ~50 female athletes to balance the 115 male athletes cut).
• Repurpose Facilities: Convert Memorial Stadium for soccer, community events, or academic use to minimize costs and maximize utility.
• Engage Stakeholders: Highlight basketball’s potential to alumni and fans, leveraging Indiana’s basketball passion to maintain donor support and school spirit.

This approach resolves ISU’s athletic budget woes by eliminating an underperforming program, strengthens its nationally relevant basketball program, and aligns resources with enrollment and cultural realities, all while maintaining MVC competitiveness and Title IX compliance.

Edited above for everyone… Way ahead of AI on this issue.

Actually… the timeline works out for this sooner than later reality.

Demo memorial stadium, city donates land to Vigo County School Corporation. Land becomes the new North South merger school - Terre Haute East’ish High School. Demolish Terre Haute North - upgrade the gym and athletic facilities and that is where all your athletic facilities are for Terre Haute East’ish High School.

Some of you all may not like it but the north south merger is coming because they no longer need a referendum to do it.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Edited above for everyone… Way ahead of AI on this issue.

That is quite true.

 

[DyedBlue]

I feel like I also need to say there is no shame in moving conferences. There is shame trying to "keep up with the Jones" when you're effectively wasting funds on multiple unlevel playing fields. We know the MVC is now a one bid conference due to how the high majors dominate the bid process.

What we don't know is what the future will bring. More change will come, the question is how soon. I would ride things out in the MVC for a long time. ISU was very fortunate to get into the league. It was a FAR more attractive "GET" in the 1970's than it is now: larger enrollment, natinally ranked wrestling and gymnastics programs competing at the highest levels, a great new Hulman Center and a respectable and soon to be outstanding MBB program.

When will the NCAA, mid-major and low major leadership reach the conclusion that taking dramatic action is the best for themselves and, in particular, MBB & WBB.

Some options include:
1. Don't play any Power 4 team in basketball; make them play each other.
2. Separate out a new 128 team or all 300 teams end of season, some version of national championship basketball tournament set up with 64 "sectional" sites and local rivals playing each other. There would be local interest across the country. Basically 5 teams/site at 64 sites would include everyone outside the P-4.
3. Expand the field of the current D1 Tourney to 128 teams which would by mathematical necessity open up slots for mid/low major conferences. The MVC would be positioned to garner 3-4 bids in such a format.
4. Consider the appeal of a tourney in the first three weeks of December with every D-1 program in it and playing the local 'sectional' concept. Minimal travel, neutral courts, relatively equal crowd populations for each school meaning 80% of the crowd is against the power elites. It could easily be done if the will exists. The IHSAA had an 800+ school tournament in four weeks until school consolidations winnowed the field to 400.

 

[4Q_iu]

What we don't know is what the future will bring. More change will come, the question is how soon. I would ride things out in the MVC for a long time. ISU was very fortunate to get into the league. It was a FAR more attractive "GET" in the 1970's than it is now: larger enrollment, natinally ranked wrestling and gymnastics programs competing at the highest levels, a great new Hulman Center and a respectable and soon to be outstanding MBB program.

When will the NCAA, mid-major and low major leadership reach the conclusion that taking dramatic action is the best for themselves and, in particular, MBB & WBB.

Some options include:
1. Don't play any Power 4 team in basketball; make them play each other.
2. Separate out a new 128 team or all 300 teams end of season, some version of national championship basketball tournament set up with 64 "sectional" sites and local rivals playing each other. There would be local interest across the country. Basically 5 teams/site at 64 sites would include everyone outside the P-4.
3. Expand the field of the current D1 Tourney to 128 teams which would by mathematical necessity open up slots for mid/low major conferences. The MVC would be positioned to garner 3-4 bids in such a format.
4. Consider the appeal of a tourney in the first three weeks of December with every D-1 program in it and playing the local 'sectional' concept. Minimal travel, neutral courts, relatively equal crowd populations for each school meaning 80% of the crowd is against the power elites. It could easily be done if the will exists. The IHSAA had an 800+ school tournament in four weeks until school consolidations winnowed the field to 400.

1938 was the height of the IHSAA Boys Tournament, 787 schools; had the IHSAA allowed private, parochial and "single race" schools (Indianapolis Crispus Attucks, Gary Roosevelt, Evansville Lincoln) the number would be higher.

IHSAA has never run a 800+ HS boys tourney

 

[Sycamorefan96]

96, ITF and Jason… It’s a movement now. It was just a mere concept yesterday but it’s a movement today.

Nah, I want to see us take the lead and get Murray State and Southern Illinois (and possibly IL State) to jump with us to the SOCON. We'd immediately blow by the MVC and whatever scrub teams they replaced us with, and probably pass up the Atlantic 10, the WCC, and the (new) Mountain West too. Every school in the SOCON plays scholarship football except for one so it would be a perfect fit, plus it's a good league in basketball.

The MVC is a dying conference and giving the Summit League the power to expand the MVFC like it's the Big 18 is just dumb. Plus trips to the southern Appalachians and the beach is a lot more attractive than trips to Des Moines and ghetto St Louis.

The OVC was attractive until their 4 best teams left: Murray State, Jax State, Austin Peay, and Belmont. Now it is not attractive, except maybe as an affiliate in football, but certainly not for anything else. Keeping Murray State and getting them to join the SOCON is the way to go along with the Egyptian Flea Bags of Carbondale and the Jailbirds of ILST. Everyone else in the MVC can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

 

[isubird33]

Edited above for everyone… Way ahead of AI on this issue.

Actually… the timeline works out for this sooner than later reality.

Demo memorial stadium, city donates land to Vigo County School Corporation. Land becomes the new North South merger school - Terre Haute East’ish High School. Demolish Terre Haute North - upgrade the gym and athletic facilities and that is where all your athletic facilities are for Terre Haute East’ish High School.

Some of you all may not like it but the north south merger is coming because they no longer need a referendum to do it.

We agree on this for sure. I've been saying for YEARS that Terre Haute should have one high school for a large variety of reasons.

 

[DyedBlue]

1938 was the height of the IHSAA Boys Tournament, 787 schools; had the IHSAA allowed private, parochial and "single race" schools (Indianapolis Crispus Attucks, Gary Roosevelt, Evansville Lincoln) the number would be higher.

IHSAA has never run a 800+ HS boys tourney

View attachment 3261

Sorry, I was remembering the 800 number from many years ago. It does appear there were several years when the full membership exceeded 800 and every year from 1934-35 until the start of the 1948-49 season, there were at least 800 schools with full or limited membership. I never considered that some of them might not have entered the boys' tournament.

Thanks for the clarification. But I think my primary point is that if a flyover state can manage a nearly 800 school field in the 1930-40's, the modern technology and transportation of today should be able to handle a far smaller event.

1933-34 798 ........................................ 798
1934-35 801 .........................................801
1935-36 805 ......................................... 805
1936-37 803 ........................................ 803
1937-38 805 ........................................ 805
1938-39 785 ....................... 1 20 806
1939-40 783 ................................1 22 806
1940-41 797................................ 2 17 816
1941-42 800 .................................... 20 820
1942-43 792 .................................... 20 812
1943-44 788 ...................................20 808
1944-45 788 .................................. 25 813
1945-46 786 .................................. 24 810
1946-47 789 ................................. 25 814
1947-48 783 ................................. 25 808
1948-49 773 .................................25 798
1949-50 771 ................................25 796
1950-51 762 ................................ 23 1 786

 

[4Q_iu]

Sorry, I was remembering the 800 number from many years ago. It does appear there were several years when the full membership exceeded 800 and every year from 1934-35 until the start of the 1948-49 season, there were at least 800 schools with full or limited membership. I never considered that some of them might not have entered the boys' tournament.

Thanks for the clarification. But I think my primary point is that if a flyover state can manage a nearly 800 school field in the 1930-40's, the modern technology and transportation of today should be able to handle a far smaller event.

1933-34 798 ........................................ 798
1934-35 801 .........................................801
1935-36 805 ......................................... 805
1936-37 803 ........................................ 803
1937-38 805 ........................................ 805
1938-39 785 ....................... 1 20 806
1939-40 783 ................................1 22 806
1940-41 797................................ 2 17 816
1941-42 800 .................................... 20 820
1942-43 792 .................................... 20 812
1943-44 788 ...................................20 808
1944-45 788 .................................. 25 813
1945-46 786 .................................. 24 810
1946-47 789 ................................. 25 814
1947-48 783 ................................. 25 808
1948-49 773 .................................25 798
1949-50 771 ................................25 796
1950-51 762 ................................ 23 1 786

This is the sole source for any discussion... in reviewing it, some schools bounce in and out of IHSAA membership but in the case of Evansville Lincoln, while it was a member full member in 1942, it was only a limited member prior to 1942... pgs. 2-3 of the doc (see link below) outlines the varying types of membership in the IHSAA over it's history.

https://www.ihsaa.org/sites/default/files/documents/Membership%20History.pdf