Updated: Restructuring moves forward; Indiana State voted against

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ISU02 said:
Personally, I don't think it will be the death nail everyone thinks its going to be for those teams outside of the power 5. Yes, there's certainly going to be a rough transition period, but what's developing is a college level, a semi-pro level, and a pro level. College Football, and college sports in general, have gotten ridiculous. I personally want the larger schools out, so that real college sports can happen once again. I love college sports: not boring pro-sports. If the powers to be are wise enough, they'll form an entirely different institution and have nothing to do with the 5 conferences. They need to form their own t.v. network and have nothing to do with ESPN. They need to market the new institution as "real college athletics" and crown their own champions. ISU will be able to fund football if they have to compete with Ball State's athletic budget, not Texas's. And an alternative institution will add competition to the greater college level, and you'll see changes thsy will benefit the audience.
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It would be interesting to see the numbers on this. Don't take this wrong--I don't doubt your statement. But a comparison would be intereint.
 

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ISU02 said:
Personally, I don't think it will be the death nail everyone thinks its going to be for those teams outside of the power 5. Yes, there's certainly going to be a rough transition period, but what's developing is a college level, a semi-pro level, and a pro level. College Football, and college sports in general, have gotten ridiculous. I personally want the larger schools out, so that real college sports can happen once again. I love college sports: not boring pro-sports. If the powers to be are wise enough, they'll form an entirely different institution and have nothing to do with the 5 conferences. They need to form their own t.v. network and have nothing to do with ESPN. They need to market the new institution as "real college athletics" and crown their own champions. ISU will be able to fund football if they have to compete with Ball State's athletic budget, not Texas's. And an alternative institution will add competition to the greater college level, and you'll see changes thsy will benefit the audience.
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Sounds good. Who is going to pay for it?

Take a look at the student fees column and then look at the rest of the line items. That is the single biggest increase by a large margin and I'm not sure how much farther you can push it considering there is a ground swell for lowering college costs because of the impending student loan bubble. So if they can't keep going back to the only well that has provided them money over the last decade, who is going to pay for it? You expect the school to take it out of their general fund? ISU is already at their bond limit for damn near the next decade so any big improvements will need to come out of there. Ball State has an athletic budget almost double ours. Like us, they also operate at a 75% subsidy. This is what all of these mainstream articles have refused to discuss.

ncaafinances.jpg


Don't get me wrong, I do like your idea. It's too bad there isn't some visionary leadership within the rest of the schools that bind together and decide to move on their own and strike first. The fact that they're sitting around with thumbs up their asses and letting the Big 5 walk all over them shows they're holding on to their step child FBS status for dear life.

Further, the bigger issue and while I don't think it will ever work is the fact that our students, alumni and fans don't give a shit about our sports. Sure, you have the diehards, but show up to any Sycamore football game and the proof is in the attendance pudding. Unless you can find a way to get those groups to buy tickets, buy merchandise and donate to the football program, it's just not going to work.
 
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I wouldn't want RP's job right now. There are some seriously tough decisions coming down the pike. And virtually none of them will be popular.

Let the big 5 leave. They can form the ABA if they want. Let the rest of us get back to COLLEGE athletics. Sadly, the big 5 wants ALL the money, they won't leave a single, solitary buck for anyone else...
 

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Jason Svoboda said:
Some good comments from the CAA commissioner in this one. Love Bowlsby lies in here, too. Big 12 has some of the lowest graduation rates in college sports. Who the hell is he trying to kid?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...oner-bob-bowlsby-unapologetic-power-five-vote
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I am sure many of the other NCAA athletes (regardless of their sport) will appreciate Bowlsby comment that (paraphrasing) {were pretty much the face of most college sports anyway} and {we have won about 90 percent of the championships}. Yea, all those suckass athletes that can't compete with you should just sit in the back of the room and let you run over them, eh? Are you saying that those kids at smaller Div. I schools or Div. II schools don't work as hard or win enough, so they should be fine with accepting second tier status and not complain with the leftovers you graciously allow them to have? Sure sounds like that is what he is saying.
 
IndyTreeFan said:
I wouldn't want RP's job right now. There are some seriously tough decisions coming down the pike. And virtually none of them will be popular.

Let the big 5 leave. They can form the ABA if they want. Let the rest of us get back to COLLEGE athletics. Sadly, the big 5 wants ALL the money, they won't leave a single, solitary buck for anyone else...
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If / When the 'big 5' leave the ncaa; there'll be no college athletics. sadly, the big 5 represent, ~70% of all college students; 50% of college graduates and ~95% of fans OF college athletics.

I don't like it -- but I don't see a lot of TV time devoted to non-big 5 sports
 
Jason, it's not that I'm disagreeing with your assessment of the situation, and the difficulties that FCS and FBS teams are going to find themselves in during the transition period, but you can't compare current cost to any future cost in a "new college" environment. Without getting into too many details, the current cost of maintaining football is under the current NCAA system, but I'm advocating for a complete divorce from that system. Most teams outside of the power five operate with substantial subsidies from their respective collegiate institutions, and by creating a "new college system" cost can be reduced clear across the board. For too long, the smaller schools have been willing to accept the injustices of the current system because everyone of them wished someday to get into the big boy leagues. No athletic director was willing to buck the trend and jeopardize being "blackballed" or penalized for attempting to undermine the NCAA regime, but that decision is being made for them now. Inaction, and the unwillingness to take pay cuts will be the greatest hurdle for the "new collegiate system" that I'm advocating; but if everyone sticks together, and understands the importance of revenue sharing, and forming a new non-cable, or internet t.v. network agreement; with some time and great marketing, the new system can become as lucrative as the old system. But for this to happen RP needs to be on the phone right now, contacting those other teams that understand this, and a coalition needs to be forming to pitch this idea to the broader system. If football is going to fail for teams like ISU, it will come by the hands of those in charge now, not by the P5.
 
ISU02 said:
Jason, it's not that I'm disagreeing with your assessment of the situation, and the difficulties that FCS and FBS teams are going to find themselves in during the transition period, but you can't compare current cost to any future cost in a "new college" environment. Without getting into too many details, the current cost of maintaining football is under the current NCAA system, but I'm advocating for a complete divorce from that system. Most teams outside of the power five operate with substantial subsidies from their respective collegiate institutions, and by creating a "new college system" cost can be reduced clear across the board. For too long, the smaller schools have been willing to accept the injustices of the current system because everyone of them wished someday to get into the big boy leagues. No athletic director was willing to buck the trend and jeopardize being "blackballed" or penalized for attempting to undermine the NCAA regime, but that decision is being made for them now. Inaction, and the unwillingness to take pay cuts will be the greatest hurdle for the "new collegiate system" that I'm advocating; but if everyone sticks together, and understands the importance of revenue sharing, and forming a new non-cable, or internet t.v. network agreement; with some time and great marketing, the new system can become as lucrative as the old system. But for this to happen RP needs to be on the phone right now, contacting those other teams that understand this, and a coalition needs to be forming to pitch this idea to the broader system. If football is going to fail for teams like ISU, it will come by the hands of those in charge now, not by the P5.
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Hope I am wrong, seems to me your scenario would require a awful lot of people to agree and that rarely happens. Your plan is full of "but" a little too much for my comfort. I used to think that if somebody could win one of the big lottery jackpots that they could be a "savior" for ISU sports, not anymore, all we can do is support our Sycamores and hope for the best.
 
Anxious times in the Valley

Excellent piece by someone in the Valley. Have been waiting for stuff like this since all national media keep saying is how much money is being made. Some gems I've mentioned in other threads about this:

“We dropped men’s tennis (last spring) in part because of these economic realities coming down the pike from the NCAA,” said BU athletics director Michael Cross. “This is a two-sport (football and basketball) question that is going to trickle into other areas. I wouldn’t be surprised if the minimum number of sports required to stay in Division I drops. And the day it drops, I wouldn’t be surprised if schools across the country cut sports left and right.”
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Who wants to guess what would be on the chopping block here?

“A preliminary survey on the override shows it doesn’t appear anywhere close to 75,” Elgin said. “The voices of conferences like the Missouri Valley have been heard. Compromises have been made. Does that mean leagues like ours are happy with the significant changes coming? Absolutely not. But concessions have been made.”
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Will be one of the biggest mistakes non FBS schools make. You make the stand now, not later.

“If you don’t weigh in on the topic, you’ve consented,” Cross said. ”I don’t believe most people are 100 percent comfortable with what’s been proposed.

“(The Power 5) schools’ voices would count more than Bradley’s voice or (another mid-major’s) voice,” Cross said. “That’s very concerning. I’ve yet to hear a rationale as to why you should be able to have your cake and eat it, too.”
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Assimilate or die. Resistance is futile. Unfortunately here, assimilation also likely means death.

“I’m OK with some of the autonomy issues,” Prettyman told the Terre Haute Tribune Star. “But I’m really struggling with the weighted voting in addition to the autonomy. I can live with one or the other, but not both of them. ...

“When you consider a Texas, which is working with an (estimated) $185 million budget and Indiana State’s budget is right around $11.2 million, and we’re competing for the same national championship, and now they want more power than they’ve already got?”
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Preach it, Ron.

http://www.pjstar.com/article/20140910/SPORTS/140919858/10930/SPORTS
 

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I read that earlier this morning, if the NCAA reduces the amount of sports necessary to maintain D-I status, I-AA schools are gonna be cutting sports left and right and it's not going to be pretty
 
ISUCC said:
I read that earlier this morning, if the NCAA reduces the amount of sports necessary to maintain D-I status, I-AA schools are gonna be cutting sports left and right and it's not going to be pretty
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The fact you have someone on record saying it leads me to believe that ADs have asked for it. Usually they are tight lipped.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
The fact you have someone on record saying it leads me to believe that ADs have asked for it. Usually they are tight lipped.
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Good article and a topic that's NOT receiving the 'national discussion' that $$$ for the kids IS receiving.


The interesting thing in ALL of these 'discussions' --- what happens w/ the Title IX mandates? As school shutter teams and we all KNOW they will, at what point does the Dept of Ed begin MORE Title IX violation investigations??


At what point will the hand wringing over the hundreds of kids no longer receiving the opportunity to attend college (based on their athletic talents) be raised?

When will the IRS roll in and begin collecting the appropriate taxes on the 'athletes?'
 
4Q_iu said:
Good article and a topic that's NOT receiving the 'national discussion' that $$$ for the kids IS receiving.


The interesting thing in ALL of these 'discussions' --- what happens w/ the Title IX mandates? As school shutter teams and we all KNOW they will, at what point does the Dept of Ed begin MORE Title IX violation investigations??


At what point will the hand wringing over the hundreds of kids no longer receiving the opportunity to attend college (based on their athletic talents) be raised?

When will the IRS roll in and begin collecting the appropriate taxes on the 'athletes?'
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I would imagine relieving or removing some of the Title IX legislation will have to be done as well. While it may have once been a necessary law, I don't feel it is any longer.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
I would imagine relieving or removing some of the Title IX legislation will have to be done as well. While it may have once been a necessary law, I don't feel it is any longer.
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Well, THAT'S the wrinkle. The NCAA has no role EXCEPT to adhere to the law. It's a FEDERAL law and any school receiving fed funds (only 99.999999999999% of colleges/universities accept / receive federal funds.) HAS to adhere to it.

My point --- the 'Power 5' conferences will have to continue to follow the law. I think they have NOT done due diligence on their greed grab for more $$$ wrt Title IX.

With ALL of the stuff in the news about domestic assault in the NFL and the craziness on college campuses; EVERY female House and Senate member will line up to continue to enforce Title IX. they're not related BUT that's never stopped the Congress before.
 

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4Q_iu said:
Well, THAT'S the wrinkle. The NCAA has no role EXCEPT to adhere to the law. It's a FEDERAL law and any school receiving fed funds (only 99.999999999999% of colleges/universities accept / receive federal funds.) HAS to adhere to it.

My point --- the 'Power 5' conferences will have to continue to follow the law. I think they have NOT done due diligence on their greed grab for more $$$ wrt Title IX.

With ALL of the stuff in the news about domestic assault in the NFL and the craziness on college campuses; EVERY female House and Senate member will line up to continue to enforce Title IX. they're not related BUT that's never stopped the Congress before.
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Correct, but if ADs are talking about axing sports, I've got to think they've already got compliance/lawyers into the mix to discuss Title IX stuff.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
Correct, but if ADs are talking about axing sports, I've got to think they've already got compliance/lawyers into the mix to discuss Title IX stuff.
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TRUE but I don't see them getting ANY relief on the mix as long as they keep football.

IMHO -- This 'rush' to a playoff for FBS football AND DEMAND for additional payments to players will lead to FOOTBALL teams being cut. I've yet to hear a non-football or MBB player DEMAND 24/7 gourmet training tables ala Shabazz Napier
 
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