'17 IN PG Cooper Neese (10/9/2017)

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Barnes, Key, Neese, Washington, Hughes. That is a seriously athletic, potentially high scoring group in the backcourt. if our offensive rebounding totals go down it might be due to a lack of chances with these guys shooting and driving the ball.

The window is now.

Yes sir. I said it on the Marian game thread, buckle up!

JB is an emerging star.

Key has outrageous potential.

Cooper has unlimited shooting range.

Hughes is loaded offensively.

Washington although unknown has an array of abilities that will be on full display.

 

[sycamorebacker]

The window is now.

Yes sir. I said it on the Marian game thread, buckle up!

JB is an emerging star.

Key has outrageous potential.

Cooper has unlimited shooting range.

Hughes is loaded offensively.

Washington although unknown has an array of abilities that will be on full display.

You're starting to sound like me. Be careful. It does look pretty promising, doesn't it. Of course, there are injuries and transfers, but I think we have some cushion built in. Just need to get some good bigs in here; and really all they have to do is play D and rebound. I hope all of the guards and wings are working all the time on their drives/layups and kickouts.

 

[SycfromBirth]

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/isu-s-neese-patiently-bides-his-time/article_da1a807b-f52c-535a-81dc-620d0bbfe295.html

 

[BrokerZ]

I'm curious if there are any other cases where the NCAA has granted immediate eligibility under similar circumstances. The odds seem very long at this point unless there has been a precedent set in other similar situations. The only one that comes to mind recently is Braxton Beverly, but he only took summer classes and never actually practiced with Ohio State.

https://www.si.com/college-basketba...-beverly-ohio-state-nc-state-ncaa-eligibility

Neese was already practicing at Butler and the Fall semester had already begun when he officially transferred.

 

[Gotta Hav]

It would be nice to have Neese for the first half of the season, but in the long run, what is he missing, seven games?

And depending on how many games he may play in the MVC Tournament or in the NCAA Tournament in his career (which could be as high as 145 games plus, or as few as 131 games) he is looking at missing maybe 5 or 6% of all the games he may ever play at ISU.

And IMO, everyone’s energies should be on December eligibility and stop fretting about such an insignificant amount of time and games, of which won’t have any impact on how we may finish in the MVC Regular Season, or how we would end up being Seeded in the MVC Tournament.

Just let all of this early eligibility stuff in the rear view mirror and go practice, learn the plays and focus on December.

Also, I plan to be at the Hulman Center for his 1st game so that I can be first fan to yell “COOOOOP!!!” after he hits his 1ST SHOT!

 

[BrokerZ]

It would be nice to have Neese for the first half of the season, but in the long run, what is he missing, seven games?

And depending on how many games he may play in the MVC Tournament or in the NCAA Tournament in his career (which could be as high as 145 games plus, or as few as 131 games) he is looking at missing maybe 5 or 6% of all the games he may ever play at ISU.

And IMO, everyone’s energies should be on December eligibility and stop fretting about such an insignificant amount of time and games, of which won’t have any impact on how we may finish in the MVC Regular Season, or how we would end up being Seeded in the MVC Tournament.

Just let all of this early eligibility stuff in the rear view mirror and go practice, learn the plays and focus on December.

Also, I plan to be at the Hulman Center for his 1st game so that I can be first fan to yell “COOOOOP!!!” after he hits his 1ST SHOT!

I agree that in the broad scheme of things, we're not talking about a big percentage. I also agree that the conference record is the only thing that's going to matter for us for the foreseeable future. But, if it's possible I'd rather have Neese with those 5-7 games under his belt before just jumping right into a long trip to Hawaii and MVC play shortly thereafter.

Neese hasn't played organized basketball in what could be nearly 2 years by the time he steps on the court. He's going to be rusty.

Also...who's "fretting" about this? The only reason we're talking about it is because of the article that came out yesterday. It's the longest of shots that this even happens, and I don't think anyone other than our compliance officer is putting any real time into it.

 

[SycfromBirth]

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/isu-still-hoping-for-good-news-on-neese-ncaa-appeal/article_7001768a-6358-5648-ba1d-c0faedc96c24.html

 

[Bluethunder]

Request denied by the NCAA. Will make his debut in December.

Poor decision by the NCAA, but what is new. Kid has sat out a year, never played a second for his previous team, and has caught up in the classroom and is on track academically. Not sure what purpose is served by having him sit out until December.

I'm sure if he would have transferred to Kansas, Duke or UCLA the NCAA would have been ok with him playing now.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Request denied by the NCAA. Will make his debut in December.

Poor decision by the NCAA, but what is new. Kid has sat out a year, never played a second for his previous team, and has caught up in the classroom and is on track academically. Not sure what purpose is served by having him sit out until December.

I'm sure if he would have transferred to Kansas, Duke or UCLA the NCAA would have been ok with him playing now.

I'd be interested to see metrics on the number of waivers requested, how many were granted, etc.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I'd be interested to see metrics on the number of waivers requested, how many were granted, etc.

Would it prove what we already know or further piss me off??

The NCAA is a farce - one of the most ridiculous organizations on planet earth. They think they have the best interest of student athletes, education and the integrity of the sports the preside over. I'm not sure they really do a good job at anything but looking out for the NCAA and making sure that they make money.

This is a billion dollar organization deciding that some kid in Terre Haute, Indiana that never played a single game at Butler (who by the way advocated for his instant eligibility) be deemed ineligible. If that doesn't piss you off and give you a clear understanding of who and what the NCAA is then I can't help anyone understand. What the NCAA would want you to know is how much of that money is actually filter back to it's member institutions - be mindful that all member institutions (as has been uncovered here in this very thread) are not created equal... If you believe or have faith in the NCAA to do what is best for student athletes or Indiana State for that matter then you should put your faith in - well other things...

Said billion dollar agency decides that it's not fair, not good for the sport, against the rules for Cooper Neese to be immediately eligible. If I'm Cooper Neese I go ahead and tell Greg Lansing and Indiana State - sounds good, I will see you in a few months when I'm eligible again. Why should he practice and put his health on the line if the NCAA can't accommodate this simple request? To be a good teammate? F-that. If everyone else can look out themselves then so should he or anyone else that finds themselves in a similar circumstance.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Would it prove what we already know or further piss me off??

The NCAA is a farce - one of the most ridiculous organizations on planet earth. They think they have the best interest of student athletes, education and the integrity of the sports the preside over. I'm not sure they really do a good job at anything but looking out for the NCAA and making sure that they make money.

This is a billion dollar organization deciding that some kid in Terre Haute, Indiana that never played a single game at Butler (who by the way advocated for his instant eligibility) be deemed ineligible. If that doesn't piss you off and give you a clear understanding of who and what the NCAA is then I can't help anyone understand. What the NCAA would want you to know is how much of that money is actually filter back to it's member institutions - be mindful that all member institutions (as has been uncovered here in this very thread) are not created equal... If you believe or have faith in the NCAA to do what is best for student athletes or Indiana State for that matter then you should put your faith in - well other things...

Said billion dollar agency decides that it's not fair, not good for the sport, against the rules for Cooper Neese to be immediately eligible. If I'm Cooper Neese I go ahead and tell Greg Lansing and Indiana State - sounds good, I will see you in a few months when I'm eligible again. Why should he practice and put his health on the line if the NCAA can't accommodate this simple request? To be a good teammate? F-that. If everyone else can look out themselves then so should he or anyone else that finds themselves in a similar circumstance.

Nothing you have said is wrong, but the reason the rules are there is because multiple member schools have exploited it before it was a rule. The bigger problem is there are a lot of rules still on the books from when college sports was a different beast. The NCAA and it's rules committees are made up of member school representatives so it scratches your head how they can't get it right.

 

[Sycamore Proud]

Does it being an in-state transfer have a role in the decision?

 

[niklz62]

im surprised he even asked. im also surprised anyone ever gets a waiver. either make it the rule or not the rule.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Whatever. As much BS as I think this deal is I've long said that I think Neese and Williams having to sit out some early games is actually a good thing for Indiana State long term. Neese is a Freshman and has never played a full season of D1 Hoops - he's going to see the floor quite a bit and that "Freshman wall" becomes a real thing for some players. Cutting a forth of his season out might hinder his early development a bit - but looking toward the latter half of the schedule into the conference tournament I actually think a little less wear and tear on a few of these guys isn't a terrible thing.

 

[Daveinth]

Whatever. As much BS as I think this deal is I've long said that I think Neese and Williams having to sit out some early games is actually a good thing for Indiana State long term. Neese is a Freshman and has never played a full season of D1 Hoops - he's going to see the floor quite a bit and that "Freshman wall" becomes a real thing for some players. Cutting a forth of his season out might hinder his early development a bit - but looking toward the latter half of the schedule into the conference tournament I actually think a little less wear and tear on a few of these guys isn't a terrible thing.

I agree with you 100% it is not like our chances at an NCAA berth is at at stake we all know and agree that the only way this team would make the Tournament is by winning the conference tournament so does it really matter that he is playing d-2 competition in November?

 

[BrokerZ]

By the time Neese finishes his senior season, this will all be an after thought. I feel bad for him because when he does lace them up officially at TCU or in Hawaii it'll be nearly 2 years since he last played organized basketball. He's paid his dues.

I also just anxious to see him play, so selfishly I'd rather have him all year...even if the games don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Southgrad07]

Whatever. As much BS as I think this deal is I've long said that I think Neese and Williams having to sit out some early games is actually a good thing for Indiana State long term. Neese is a Freshman and has never played a full season of D1 Hoops - he's going to see the floor quite a bit and that "Freshman wall" becomes a real thing for some players. Cutting a forth of his season out might hinder his early development a bit - but looking toward the latter half of the schedule into the conference tournament I actually think a little less wear and tear on a few of these guys isn't a terrible thing.

I didn't agree with your whole opinion on Neese closing up shop until Dec. 16th lol... but I agree with you here. To your early point, it's not like Neese has proven himself at this level or at the practices I've seen that he is head and shoulders above the other starting guards on the team..So he needs all the reps he can get for his own good and to claim a starting spot. I might feel a bit different if say we were talking about a former all big east player or even proven starter at that level.


But here I think you are spot on. That FR wall is real for a lot of guys and I also think the starter/6th man game reps Washington and Hughes get early in the year will be beneficial down the line come valley season for our depth. Also those two won't have a chance to bitch and moan if they aren't in the rotation come Feb. because they had the first two months with starter type minutes to prove what they could bring to the table.

Oh and the NCAA is most certainly hypocritical and inconsistent in everything they do...Look within our own conference this year. Trae Berhow had a terrific FR year at Pepperdine last season...Coach was fired and he wanted to be closer to home to his sick grandpa. He applied for immediate eligibility and it was granted at UNI. Craziest part is he is from Minnesota not Iowa...So Neese sits a 1 1/2 seasons when he never even went to an official practice at Butler..Meanwhile a kid who played all last year gets immediate eligibility because he has a sick relative in a neighboring state...Makes sense!!

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I didn't agree with your whole opinion on Neese closing up shop until Dec. 16th lol... but I agree with you here. To your early point, it's not like Neese has proven himself at this level or at the practices I've seen that he is head and shoulders above the other starting guards on the team..So he needs all the reps he can get for his own good and to claim a starting spot. I might feel a bit different if say we were talking about a former all big east player or even proven starter at that level.

It's more of a "principal of the matter" stance than what would be in his best interest. Obviously, it would be a pretty selfish thing if a player was even allowed to get away with such theatrics - I don't think it would put him in very good standing with the staff, his teammates or fans. If it was my son I probably wouldn't pass along such advice...

My point is - at some point college athletes need to look out for themselves. His case for eligibility in this case was pretty solid - he hadn't participated in a single official practice, Butler granted his release, Butler endorsed his waiver to become eligible - if the NCAA looks at this case and says we think your still ineligible. I don't think it's that big of a reach for a player to say okay fine - then I will focus on my health, my education, my time etc. etc. until I am eligible. I think college athletes have rights and I think that the NCAA has long taken advantage of those rights for their own benefit.

But... Obviously he shouldn't seriously do that. I'm just talking.

 

[Southgrad07]

Missouri State just got two transfers who left their programs this spring/summer immediately eligible. Yet Cooper is penalized because he chose to stay at Butler for the summer (before official practice started) to give his new coach a chance...So if i'm keeping track you go through summer workouts but never play for a program who had a coaching change= 1.5 yrs out...Play multiple seasons somewhere and decide 3 months after a coaching change you want to transfer=Immediate eligibility...The NCAA is so ridiculous

Here is the original transfer article on the PG the Bears will have.

https://www.dnj.com/story/sports/co...-johnson-dixon-thomas-transferring/706533002/

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Missouri State just got two transfers who left their programs this spring/summer immediately eligible. Yet Cooper is penalized because he chose to stay at Butler for the summer (before official practice started) to give his new coach a chance...So if i'm keeping track you go through summer workouts but never play for a program who had a coaching change= 1.5 yrs out...Play multiple seasons somewhere and decide 3 months after a coaching change you want to transfer=Immediate eligibility...The NCAA is so ridiculous

Here is the original transfer article on the PG the Bears will have.

https://www.dnj.com/story/sports/co...-johnson-dixon-thomas-transferring/706533002/

What about Mark Smith eligible at Mizzou, too. Total bullshit.