2022-23 Around College Hoops

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Can someone explain what exactly is going on what exactly happened in Louisville this year. Literally one of the worst teams in Bball this year. I saw where there has never been a p5 team EVER start the season 0-7 and UL currently sits at 0-9 and not even remotely competitive the last month or so. They just lost to a 2-9 Florida State (305 RPI) by 22. Their showdown with an 0-6 Florida A&M team might be there only chance at a win this season. Just crazy how something like this happens to a program that some would consider a Blue Blood and top 10 program in the country. I know Petino happened and whatever UL has coming to them is warranted, but still crazy to see happen.
 
treeman said:
Can someone explain what exactly is going on what exactly happened in Louisville this year. Literally one of the worst teams in Bball this year. I saw where there has never been a p5 team EVER start the season 0-7 and UL currently sits at 0-9 and not even remotely competitive the last month or so. They just lost to a 2-9 Florida State (305 RPI) by 22. Their showdown with an 0-6 Florida A&M team might be there only chance at a win this season. Just crazy how something like this happens to a program that some would consider a Blue Blood and top 10 program in the country. I know Petino happened and whatever UL has coming to them is warranted, but still crazy to see happen.
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Probably a combination of average d1 talent and a first year coach that hasn’t been able to gel the team yet. They lost their exhibition to a non d1 and haven’t won yet. Had 3 buy games to start the year and lost all 3. I’d say the top 250 teams in ncaa would’ve won at least one of those first 3 games. Pretty embarrassing stuff all around.
 
treeman said:
Can someone explain what exactly is going on what exactly happened in Louisville this year. Literally one of the worst teams in Bball this year. I saw where there has never been a p5 team EVER start the season 0-7 and UL currently sits at 0-9 and not even remotely competitive the last month or so. They just lost to a 2-9 Florida State (305 RPI) by 22. Their showdown with an 0-6 Florida A&M team might be there only chance at a win this season. Just crazy how something like this happens to a program that some would consider a Blue Blood and top 10 program in the country. I know Petino happened and whatever UL has coming to them is warranted, but still crazy to see happen.
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I believe the Germans have a word for it...

Schadenfreude
 

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treeman said:
Can someone explain what exactly is going on what exactly happened in Louisville this year. Literally one of the worst teams in Bball this year. I saw where there has never been a p5 team EVER start the season 0-7 and UL currently sits at 0-9 and not even remotely competitive the last month or so. They just lost to a 2-9 Florida State (305 RPI) by 22. Their showdown with an 0-6 Florida A&M team might be there only chance at a win this season. Just crazy how something like this happens to a program that some would consider a Blue Blood and top 10 program in the country. I know Petino happened and whatever UL has coming to them is warranted, but still crazy to see happen.
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First, Payne is a complete unknown quantity as a coach. But, Jimmy's and Joe's over X's and O's. Say it all the time, but recruiting is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANTING THING FOR A COLLEGE ATHLETICS PROGRAM. You could roll the Voltron of Wooden/K/Knight/Izzo/Williams but if you've got a bad roster, AT BEST, you can make them serviceable. Hell, look at all of the "greats" currently still coaching when they miss on a class or two. Izzo is a Mount Rushmore coach for many and he's 7-4 this year, for example.

Under Chris Mack, Louisville's recruiting on the national scale took several steps down. It really has continually dropped every year since Pitino left. His first recruiting class didn't end up panning out and then he was chasing the roster from there. I've long believed that early commits for national powers are often grossly overrated with the rankings and they seemed to get quite a few early commits. I feel like the services do this to sell their $100/year subs to the Power 5 school sites.

Just my take on the situation from the outside as someone that follows college recruiting very closely.
 
Just in case anyone is curious.
  • Quadrant 1: Home 1-30, Neutral 1-50, Away 1-75
  • Quadrant 2: Home 31-75, Neutral 51-100, Away 76-135
  • Quadrant 3: Home 76-160, Neutral 101-200, Away 135-240
  • Quadrant 4: Home 161-353, Neutral 201-353, Away 241-353
So as of DEC 13th and the current NET rankings this is what our non con schedule looks like.

(H) 352. Green Bay - Quad 4

(H) 137 . Ball State - Quad 3

(H) 293. North Dakota State - Quad 4

(N) 202. East Carolina - Quad 4

(N) 279. UMKC - Quad 4

(N) 200. Drexel - Quad 3

(H) 327 . Miami OH - Quad 4

(A) 179 USI - Quad 3

(A) 155. Duquesne - Quad 3

(H) 302. NIU - Quad 4
 
Jason Svoboda said:
The quadrant system was literally developed for the power conferences. Their NET/RPI/BPI ratings are baked in due to playing each other. It is conference tournament or bust or getting someone on the committee that will fight till the death.
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While true but mid majors or let’s just say anybody non Power conferences can’t play that the type of schedule we have if we want to be in the conversation. Schedule better and win those games first. Secondly which gets over looked the conference as a whole has to schedule better. Then we can have the conversation about the NCAA screwing ppl over which we already know they do. Would you rather be in the conversation or not at all?
 

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jturner38 said:
While true but mid majors or let’s just say anybody non Power conferences can’t play that the type of schedule we have if we want to be in the conversation. Schedule better and win those games first. Secondly which gets over looked the conference as a whole has to schedule better. Then we can have the conversation about the NCAA screwing ppl over which we already know they do. Would you rather be in the conversation or not at all?
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I would rather their controls put into place to make the system equitable. Since that won't happen, I don't really give a shit. For example, I think P5s should be negatively penalized if they play a school too far outside of their NET/RPI/BPI ranking -- whatever system the NCAA wants to use. Likewise, I think they should be negatively penalized for refusing to go on the road to play non-P5 schools. There needs to be a comprehensive BCS type algo developed to pick the NCAA Tournament field and take the grandstanding of the selection committee out of it.

So until shit like that happens, I do agree you simply schedule as well as you can and try to knock all of them down. Likewise, this is why I root on all Valley teams when they aren't playing us because then when we do play them, their ranks are higher so it is more impactful to our wins. But even so, a couple Q2 opportunities are about as good as any Valley team can do on any given year due to how they created the system to lock us out.
 
I think the days of scheduling a tough out of conference schedule are gone. With the inability to get an at-large as a mid-major, unless you just have a special team, scheduling becomes more about preparing yourself for the conference season, and getting to play your best basketball in March. I have no problems with the schedule we have this year. I like winning, and since we have no realistic shot at an at-large, I'm good with these teams.

Except USI... 🤣
 
Jason Svoboda said:
I would rather their controls put into place to make the system equitable. Since that won't happen, I don't really give a shit. For example, I think P5s should be negatively penalized if they play a school too far outside of their NET/RPI/BPI ranking -- whatever system the NCAA wants to use. Likewise, I think they should be negatively penalized for refusing to go on the road to play non-P5 schools. There needs to be a comprehensive BCS type algo developed to pick the NCAA Tournament field and take the grandstanding of the selection committee out of it.

So until shit like that happens, I do agree you simply schedule as well as you can and try to knock all of them down. Likewise, this is why I root on all Valley teams when they aren't playing us because then when we do play them, their ranks are higher so it is more impactful to our wins. But even so, a couple Q2 opportunities are about as good as any Valley team can do on any given year due to how they created the system to lock us out.
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The real solution to scheduling is to have the NCAA handle scheduling like the NFL, NBA, and MLB do. Everyone gets the same # of home/away games, P5 can't shy away from playing anyone on the road, you could even build in easier schedules for teams that were bad the previous year. Of course, the NCAA is totally corrupt, so this would never happen.

They're going to kick us out of "their" tournament soon anyway, so this will all be moot...
 
Jason Svoboda said:
The quadrant system was literally developed for the power conferences. Their NET/RPI/BPI ratings are baked in due to playing each other. It is conference tournament or bust or getting someone on the committee that will fight till the death
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Quad system exists to give different weight to where games are actually played. Saying that you beat #50 means something different when you consider the difference between playing them at home, their home, or on a neutral site.

Power conference schools benefit most because they are usually playing other highly ranked teams in their league.
 

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dino said:
Quad system exists to give different weight to where games are actually played. Saying that you beat #50 means something different when you consider the difference between playing them at home, their home, or on a neutral site.

Power conference schools benefit most because they are usually playing other highly ranked teams in their league.
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Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's is systemically broken. As most conference teams split H/H save for the teams that usually end up being upper echelon, it is mathematically designed to protect the interests since the rankings of the very teams means they are locked into the various quadrants regardless of the game being a home/road/neutral court game.

For example, you can pretty much guarantee that the Big Ten and ACC teams will all be locked inside the Top 60 on a yearly basis. So since they play each other for the majority of their schedule, if they split H/H, they essentially cement their ranks. By design. Protect tournament selections and shares at all costs. It's literally the only payday given out by the NCAA.
 
Guys, girls, and non-binaries: Let's not try to compare ourselves to P5 teams. They are a different class of athlete.
Someone mentioned "special team" above, (example Bird); but average or good mids are not going to compete with highs on a game-to-game basis.
Mids do not even belong in the NCAA tournament unless they, by accident, get 2-3 exceptional players by luck.
I am hoping we can get into the NIT if we don't win our tournament. For that, we may need to win our conference.
The non-con schedule doesn't mean that much.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's is systemically broken. As most conference teams split H/H save for the teams that usually end up being upper echelon, it is mathematically designed to protect the interests since the rankings of the very teams means they are locked into the various quadrants regardless of the game being a home/road/neutral court game.

For example, you can pretty much guarantee that the Big Ten and ACC teams will all be locked inside the Top 60 on a yearly basis. So since they play each other for the majority of their schedule, if they split H/H, they essentially cement their ranks. By design. Protect tournament selections and shares at all costs. It's literally the only payday given out by the NCAA.
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All of that makes sense.

I guess I was thinking more how it’s used to change how people look at wins, in regards to where the game is played.
In reality, it’s always going to make power conference look better. But the real tool is that it gives you a scale on how good/bad certain wins or losses are.
 
dino said:
All of that makes sense.

I guess I was thinking more how it’s used to change how people look at wins, in regards to where the game is played.
In reality, it’s always going to make power conference look better. But the real tool is that it gives you a scale on how good/bad certain wins or losses are.
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If you watch IU they blow out quad 4 teams and get to a pretty high RPI then they play H and H with many of the top teams in the country in conference.
Naturally, they can play close to them or beat them at home and they stay up high. What were they 7th in the Big10 last year and made the tournament?
That option is not available to mids.
 
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