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best player in indiana state history?
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SydCamore
The Captain Level
How can I vote? I say Vincent Glenn.
sycamore51
The Varsity Level
What about Dan Brandenburg? He didn't do to bad for himself
bent20
The Odum Level
I say Glenn, but only because I don't know much about the others and he went on to have a solid NFL career.
This is pretty cool! Not that I am going to vote on this poll since I am not that old and have never heard of half these fellas! I am sure they were great though. lol
vicent allen is my pick
he didnt play in the nfl due to a very serious knee injury that he incurred while playing at isu. and he wasn't the right size for the league at that time (5-8, 185 pounds), but he was without a doubt the best player that i ever saw at isu.
how good was he? think darrin sproules of the san diego chargers. or maurice jones-drew of the jacksonville jaguars. that was vincent allen at his very best. small, quick, elusive, strong legged, quick cuts, breakaway speed, could pass block with the best, smart runner.
just try this on for size: combine sproules' elusiveness, speed and quickness to the outside with jones-drew's burst and power up the middle and you have vincent allen.
unforuntately, when he played in college, smaller sized running backs weren't considered big enough to play in the nfl. he ended up playing for a few years up in the cfl, but his knee injury finally took a toll.
he rushed for 1,000 yards every year that he was a sycamore. he missed his junior year as he recovered from knee surgery and returned for a fifth year and still gained over 1,000 yards.
i have talked to people at the college football hall of fame in south bend about trying to get him nominated for inclusion. he was that good.
here is my top five:
1. vincent allen
2. jim brumfield (played in the nfl with the new orleans saints and pitsburgh steelers. was drafted by the saints).
3. tunch ilkin (pro bowl offensive tackle with the pittsburgh steelers)
4. vencie glenn (played in the senior bowl and the blue-gray game; long nfl career with the new england patriots, san diego chargers, minnesota vikings, new orleans saints, new york giants; drafted by the patriots, traded to san diego where he spent most of his nfl career; set nfl record for the longest interceptions in a game to be returned for a touchdown against denver broncos and qb john elway).
5. Wayne Davis (drafted by the san diego chargers).
he didnt play in the nfl due to a very serious knee injury that he incurred while playing at isu. and he wasn't the right size for the league at that time (5-8, 185 pounds), but he was without a doubt the best player that i ever saw at isu.
how good was he? think darrin sproules of the san diego chargers. or maurice jones-drew of the jacksonville jaguars. that was vincent allen at his very best. small, quick, elusive, strong legged, quick cuts, breakaway speed, could pass block with the best, smart runner.
just try this on for size: combine sproules' elusiveness, speed and quickness to the outside with jones-drew's burst and power up the middle and you have vincent allen.
unforuntately, when he played in college, smaller sized running backs weren't considered big enough to play in the nfl. he ended up playing for a few years up in the cfl, but his knee injury finally took a toll.
he rushed for 1,000 yards every year that he was a sycamore. he missed his junior year as he recovered from knee surgery and returned for a fifth year and still gained over 1,000 yards.
i have talked to people at the college football hall of fame in south bend about trying to get him nominated for inclusion. he was that good.
here is my top five:
1. vincent allen
2. jim brumfield (played in the nfl with the new orleans saints and pitsburgh steelers. was drafted by the saints).
3. tunch ilkin (pro bowl offensive tackle with the pittsburgh steelers)
4. vencie glenn (played in the senior bowl and the blue-gray game; long nfl career with the new england patriots, san diego chargers, minnesota vikings, new orleans saints, new york giants; drafted by the patriots, traded to san diego where he spent most of his nfl career; set nfl record for the longest interceptions in a game to be returned for a touchdown against denver broncos and qb john elway).
5. Wayne Davis (drafted by the san diego chargers).
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btisu22
The Varsity Level
I voted for Jeff Miller. He was solid and was the QB on ISU's best teams! I know he didn't go on to the NFL, but this is ISU's all timers.
My top 5 would be:
1. Jeff Miller
2. Vincie Glenn
3. Vincent Allen
4. Wayne Davis
5. Tunch Ilkin
Now, if you go with career:
1. Tunch Ilkin
2. Vincie Glenn
My top 5 would be:
1. Jeff Miller
2. Vincie Glenn
3. Vincent Allen
4. Wayne Davis
5. Tunch Ilkin
Now, if you go with career:
1. Tunch Ilkin
2. Vincie Glenn
btisu22
The Varsity Level
Might as well have an honorable mention of guys not listed:
Troy Johnson
Dan Brandenburg
David Wright
Jamie Petrowski....I'm sure I messed up the last name....I always do
Sam Logan
Mike Mieskie....I know that isn't even close.....the kicker from a few years back.
Shannon Jackson
We had quite a few good defensive players under McGwire that I can't seem to remember. I guess I will update as I remember.
Troy Johnson
Dan Brandenburg
David Wright
Jamie Petrowski....I'm sure I messed up the last name....I always do
Sam Logan
Mike Mieskie....I know that isn't even close.....the kicker from a few years back.
Shannon Jackson
We had quite a few good defensive players under McGwire that I can't seem to remember. I guess I will update as I remember.
BankShot
The Kleuh Level
Vincent Allen...
...played during the same era as 2-time Heisman winner ARCHIE GRIFFIN of Ohio State and was every bit as GOOD as Archie. Tremendous lateral speed and could cut on a dime w/o losing any velocity. Given the nature of his knee injury, he never fully regained the advantage he ONCE had.
If someone created a category for HARDEST HITTERS, my '69-73 Theta Chi Fraternity bros. JOHN "Hawk" Karazsia would have to rate near the top...and he was only 5'9" 175 lbs! His nickname pretty much explains his savage nature from the ISU MLB position! :sycamores:
...played during the same era as 2-time Heisman winner ARCHIE GRIFFIN of Ohio State and was every bit as GOOD as Archie. Tremendous lateral speed and could cut on a dime w/o losing any velocity. Given the nature of his knee injury, he never fully regained the advantage he ONCE had.
If someone created a category for HARDEST HITTERS, my '69-73 Theta Chi Fraternity bros. JOHN "Hawk" Karazsia would have to rate near the top...and he was only 5'9" 175 lbs! His nickname pretty much explains his savage nature from the ISU MLB position! :sycamores:
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here's another name for you....
marty murray.
marty was an inside linebacker from warren, ohio. he was supposed to go to ohio state but had some academic problems. back then, isu could take kids who were borderline academically. they would be on probation for a semester or two and then if they made it through ok, then they were fine.
woody hayes, yes woody hayes, was a friend of then isu head coach tom harp. he called harp and said i have a kid for you if you want him. harp took the kid sight unseen. he was a great inside linebacker for the sycamores.
i will say that he was also a load at times off the field too. had some run-ins with the law as a senior and never really got a chance to progress past college football. but, boy, could he play inside linebacker.
isu got another kid from ohio state that way, a defensive end by the name of brian decree, also from warren, ohio. he had academic problems but he never made it due to poor class attendance and poor grades.
decree's older brother, van decree, had been an all-american linebacker for ohio state and it was said that brian was a better player. we never really got a chance to find out.
marty murray.
marty was an inside linebacker from warren, ohio. he was supposed to go to ohio state but had some academic problems. back then, isu could take kids who were borderline academically. they would be on probation for a semester or two and then if they made it through ok, then they were fine.
woody hayes, yes woody hayes, was a friend of then isu head coach tom harp. he called harp and said i have a kid for you if you want him. harp took the kid sight unseen. he was a great inside linebacker for the sycamores.
i will say that he was also a load at times off the field too. had some run-ins with the law as a senior and never really got a chance to progress past college football. but, boy, could he play inside linebacker.
isu got another kid from ohio state that way, a defensive end by the name of brian decree, also from warren, ohio. he had academic problems but he never made it due to poor class attendance and poor grades.
decree's older brother, van decree, had been an all-american linebacker for ohio state and it was said that brian was a better player. we never really got a chance to find out.
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one other thing about vincent allen....
when i was at the nfl combine a couple of years ago, right after cam cameron had been named as the head coach of the miami dolphins, i was doing an interview with him. at the time, he was considering former isu player and assistant coach bobby turner to be his running backs coach. turner has been the long time running backs coach for the denver broncos.
i had asked cam about bobby and as some of the national media types surrounded us, he went on a five-minute talk about isu football and his step-dad tom harp. and he mentioned vincent allen.
cam said that vincent allen was the best running back that the national media had never heard of. but he said he was great and should have gotten a shot in the nfl. i bet cam would have talked about vincent and bobby turner for an hour or so if given the opportunity.
one added note, for those of you who don't know...cam was a ballboy for the sycamores (along with trent miles) when vincent was playing.
when i was at the nfl combine a couple of years ago, right after cam cameron had been named as the head coach of the miami dolphins, i was doing an interview with him. at the time, he was considering former isu player and assistant coach bobby turner to be his running backs coach. turner has been the long time running backs coach for the denver broncos.
i had asked cam about bobby and as some of the national media types surrounded us, he went on a five-minute talk about isu football and his step-dad tom harp. and he mentioned vincent allen.
cam said that vincent allen was the best running back that the national media had never heard of. but he said he was great and should have gotten a shot in the nfl. i bet cam would have talked about vincent and bobby turner for an hour or so if given the opportunity.
one added note, for those of you who don't know...cam was a ballboy for the sycamores (along with trent miles) when vincent was playing.
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T
treefromafar
Guest
My pick would have to be Vencie Glenn. A very good friend of mine, Tim Wooford, played WR at Western Illinois during that era. He went on to play briefly for the St. Louis Cardinals in the NFL, and played against Dave Duerson, Mike Singletary, Lawrence Taylor, Ronnie Lott and such. He says bar none, the hardest hitter he ever played against was Vencie Glenn at ISU. He remembers a hit Vencie laid on him at Memorial Stadium that laid him out.
tJames do you remember Eddie Ruffin the WR? He is the player I remember from the very first ISU game I ever went to. Who was the quarterback then? Number 12 I believe.
tJames do you remember Eddie Ruffin the WR? He is the player I remember from the very first ISU game I ever went to. Who was the quarterback then? Number 12 I believe.
That would be Reggie Allen, I believe.
syc...you are correct sir.....
#12 was, indeed, reggie allen. eddie ruffin was one wide receiver and kirk wilson was the other. hubert moore was the tight end. eddie, from peoria, ill., was the smaller of the two receivers. kirk, who was from new orleans, was the speed guy.
reggie, by the way, still lives in pennsylvania. he was from monessen, pa., and now lives near philly where he is an assistant high school football coach. his daughter played hoops at notre dame and is now in the wnba.
#12 was, indeed, reggie allen. eddie ruffin was one wide receiver and kirk wilson was the other. hubert moore was the tight end. eddie, from peoria, ill., was the smaller of the two receivers. kirk, who was from new orleans, was the speed guy.
reggie, by the way, still lives in pennsylvania. he was from monessen, pa., and now lives near philly where he is an assistant high school football coach. his daughter played hoops at notre dame and is now in the wnba.
T
treefromafar
Guest
Thanks for the clarification Syc and tJames. My grandparents lived in Terre Haute for years. My grandfather was friend with Tom Harp, and we got to go down to practice one day and go in the locker room and run on the field. I was probably 8 or 10 years old, so it would have been in the late 1970's. My dad is an ISU grad, and currently lives in Terre Haute. I was just there this past weekend. Wondering where they would put a new on campus football stadium? Where the current track is? Anyhow, I was also at the playoff game vs Eastern Illinois in 1983 when the trees lost and there was a fight on the field after the game. Do you remember that?
in 1983 isu played southern illinois
isu lost to southern illinois 23-7 in carbondale in the second round of the I-aa playoffs in 1983. siu went on to win the i-aa national title that year. isu was 9-4 in 1983, with two of those losses coming to siu (lost 34-21 in the regular season meeting in terre haute).
isu had advanced to the siu game by beating eastern illinois 16-13 in a first-round i-aa playoff game at memorial stadium in terre haute. eiu was mad because the sycamores made a late stand with two passes batted down in the endzone.
eiu thought pass interference should have been called on both plays. they were both very, very close calls. current new orleans saints head coach sean payton was the eiu quarterback that day.
in 1984, meanwhile, isu dropped a 42-41 triple-overtime game to middle tennessee state at memorial stadium in terre haute.
isu lost to southern illinois 23-7 in carbondale in the second round of the I-aa playoffs in 1983. siu went on to win the i-aa national title that year. isu was 9-4 in 1983, with two of those losses coming to siu (lost 34-21 in the regular season meeting in terre haute).
isu had advanced to the siu game by beating eastern illinois 16-13 in a first-round i-aa playoff game at memorial stadium in terre haute. eiu was mad because the sycamores made a late stand with two passes batted down in the endzone.
eiu thought pass interference should have been called on both plays. they were both very, very close calls. current new orleans saints head coach sean payton was the eiu quarterback that day.
in 1984, meanwhile, isu dropped a 42-41 triple-overtime game to middle tennessee state at memorial stadium in terre haute.
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T
treefromafar
Guest
Thanks for the clarification. Do you remember the altercation after the game? I do remember Sean Payton. He was a grad assistant or assistant at ISU in 1986 when I came to school there. Mentoring Kyle Frondorf and John Sahm. Who do you think was a better QB, Sahm or Frondorf?
the altercation.....
was more yelling and pushing than it was any real fighting....lol....but it was in those games with eiu that former indiana state head coach dennis raetz grew to really like sean payton...and eventually led to him hiring sean to be an assistant at isu...it was payton's first full-time assistant coaching job on the collegiate level....sean has said since that he really appreciated dennis giving him a chance to coach....and dennis has always said that sean is a special person and would make a great coach at whatever level he decided to coach at....
as for kyle versus john....john had a gun for an arm....but he also had a bum knee that he initially hurt in high school....john may have had the best arm of any quarterback who i saw play at indiana state....early on he thought that he could just drill it anywhere, but he had a few passes picked off...but once he calmed down, he became a very good quarterback....his lack of movement due to the knee hurt him a bit and sometimes made him a sitting duck for an all-out pass rush...but he usually got the throws off...he had a pretty quick release....
kyle, on the other hand, played with a chip on his shoulder a little bit after he transferred back from the university of cincinnati....he was a very good workman-like quarterback...nothing very flashy....but he got the job done....
we had a couple quarterbacks like kyle during that time....like john stites....kip hennelly later on...kevin cox....kyle, john (stites) and kevin were much better passers than kip was....he was basically an athlete playing quarterback...he had transferred to isu after his previous school wanted him to play linebacker....
was more yelling and pushing than it was any real fighting....lol....but it was in those games with eiu that former indiana state head coach dennis raetz grew to really like sean payton...and eventually led to him hiring sean to be an assistant at isu...it was payton's first full-time assistant coaching job on the collegiate level....sean has said since that he really appreciated dennis giving him a chance to coach....and dennis has always said that sean is a special person and would make a great coach at whatever level he decided to coach at....
as for kyle versus john....john had a gun for an arm....but he also had a bum knee that he initially hurt in high school....john may have had the best arm of any quarterback who i saw play at indiana state....early on he thought that he could just drill it anywhere, but he had a few passes picked off...but once he calmed down, he became a very good quarterback....his lack of movement due to the knee hurt him a bit and sometimes made him a sitting duck for an all-out pass rush...but he usually got the throws off...he had a pretty quick release....
kyle, on the other hand, played with a chip on his shoulder a little bit after he transferred back from the university of cincinnati....he was a very good workman-like quarterback...nothing very flashy....but he got the job done....
we had a couple quarterbacks like kyle during that time....like john stites....kip hennelly later on...kevin cox....kyle, john (stites) and kevin were much better passers than kip was....he was basically an athlete playing quarterback...he had transferred to isu after his previous school wanted him to play linebacker....
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T
treefromafar
Guest
Yes, I also remember a night game against Wichita St. (when they still played football) back then, 83 or 84. ISU attempted a really long (50 or 60 yards) field goal that came up short as time expired to lose that game.
it couldnt have been '83 or '84.....
since isu beat wichita state 24-22 in 1983 and they didnt play in 1984...as a matter of fact, indiana state had a 4-2-1 record against wee-cheathum-state in the years that they played....both losses isu gave up 41 points (tom harp was the coach) and 46 points (raetz' first year as head coach)...raetz was 1-1-1 against the wu-shockers....
since isu beat wichita state 24-22 in 1983 and they didnt play in 1984...as a matter of fact, indiana state had a 4-2-1 record against wee-cheathum-state in the years that they played....both losses isu gave up 41 points (tom harp was the coach) and 46 points (raetz' first year as head coach)...raetz was 1-1-1 against the wu-shockers....