Casino Coming to Terredice

[niklz62]

Does anyone know why the state would approve a Casino in Terre Haute, when placing one in Indy would generate about 100 x's the Taxes and Revenue for the state?

Yes, there's one in Anderson...but I just don't see where all the attendee's for a Terre Haute casino would draw from.

There's just NOT enough people in Clay, Sullivan, Owen, Greene, Vermillion, Parke, Putnam, etc, and the equally sparse and equally financially challenged counties across the river in Illinois. Heck...add in Knox and Davies counties....and it's still a stretch....especially since there's an existing Casino in French Lick.

What am I missing?

I think if you look at the distance in illinois you could draw from. Your options are Peoria or St Louis. I know a lit of people willing to drive to evansville or st louis. I suspect it would work in Terre Haute

I’m nit sure why the state should be deciding what communities get one anyway bur thats another whole argument

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

If they put one in Indy and bypassed Terre Haute again people would be bitching and moaning "why not us". The fact that we've got some people interested in bringing it to Terre Haute and not Indy we got people going "Gibson is a bum", "it will never work", "it brings too much crime" etc. etc. I suppose it's like with everything - you're going not going to have 100% support for a project no matter...

I guess I'm somewhat interested in seeing the scope of the project before I pass judgement. If were talking a full scale casino with live dealers attached to a nice hotel with some restaurant options in the right location I could see this being a really nice deal for Terre Haute.

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the number of rural communities surrounding Terre Haute in virtually every direction. You've also got some other communities that you will be able to pull people in from for instance Lafayette (pop 67,000), Plainfield (pop 27,000), Effingham, IL (pop 12,500), Matton, IL (pop 18,000). I just don't think you can so easily discount these communities and some other more rural areas. Many of these farming communities have wealthy people and they don't have any other forms of entertainment to spend money on. I know several that travel great distances to frequent casinos.

 

[niklz62]

If they put one in Indy and bypassed Terre Haute again people would be bitching and moaning "why not us". The fact that we've got some people interested in bringing it to Terre Haute and not Indy we got people going "Gibson is a bum", "it will never work", "it brings too much crime" etc. etc. I suppose it's like with everything - you're going not going to have 100% support for a project no matter...

I guess I'm somewhat interested in seeing the scope of the project before I pass judgement. If were talking a full scale casino with live dealers attached to a nice hotel with some restaurant options in the right location I could see this being a really nice deal for Terre Haute.

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the number of rural communities surrounding Terre Haute in virtually every direction. You've also got some other communities that you will be able to pull people in from for instance Lafayette (pop 67,000), Plainfield (pop 27,000), Effingham, IL (pop 12,500), Matton, IL (pop 18,000). I just don't think you can so easily discount these rural communities. Many of these farming communities have wealthy people and they don't have any other forms of entertainment to spend money on. I know several that travel great distances to frequent casinos.

throw in Charleston and its in the neighborhood of 40,000

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

throw in Charleston and its in the neighborhood of 40,000

Absolutely- how could I forget Charleston. Gods Country! Lol

 

[niklz62]

Absolutely- how could I forget Charleston. Gods Country! Lol

ive been trying for 18 years

 

[IndyTreeFan]

I guess I'm somewhat interested in seeing the scope of the project before I pass judgement. If were talking a full scale casino with live dealers attached to a nice hotel with some restaurant options in the right location I could see this being a really nice deal for Terre Haute.

I just don't think you can so easily discount these communities and some other more rural areas. Many of these farming communities have wealthy people and they don't have any other forms of entertainment to spend money on. I know several that travel great distances to frequent casinos.

IF they do this right, as you outlined above, you're correct, this could be a really nice deal for Terre Haute. It would be an opportunity for the city to clean itself up, put on its "Sunday Best," and give people other reasons to come to Terre Haute in addition to the casino. Who knows, if the team got good, you could even start to pull in some new basketball and football fans that might buy a ticket, see a game, then go to the casino.

This could be a nice shot in the arm for TH. Hopefully it'll be a really nice casino/resort, and not just a room filled with electronic games. I will be interested to see further details on what they want to do.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

IF they do this right, as you outlined above, you're correct, this could be a really nice deal for Terre Haute. It would be an opportunity for the city to clean itself up, put on its "Sunday Best," and give people other reasons to come to Terre Haute in addition to the casino. Who knows, if the team got good, you could even start to pull in some new basketball and football fans that might buy a ticket, see a game, then go to the casino.

This could be a nice shot in the arm for TH. Hopefully it'll be a really nice casino/resort, and not just a room filled with electronic games. I will be interested to see further details on what they want to do.

If we aint talking live dealers or the plan to eventually have live dealers I'm not that interested in this opportunity... So it's likely just some electronic bull shit since that is what I don't want.

 

[niklz62]

IF they do this right, as you outlined above, you're correct, this could be a really nice deal for Terre Haute. It would be an opportunity for the city to clean itself up, put on its "Sunday Best," and give people other reasons to come to Terre Haute in addition to the casino. Who knows, if the team got good, you could even start to pull in some new basketball and football fans that might buy a ticket, see a game, then go to the casino.

This could be a nice shot in the arm for TH. Hopefully it'll be a really nice casino/resort, and not just a room filled with electronic games. I will be interested to see further details on what they want to do.

I got the feeling it wouldnt just be electronic games. It kind of went like "you could draw from Indy because the one close to them just has electronic games"

 

[Sycamore Proud]

Maybe it's time to put all cirremt plans on hold, and let the movers and chakers more and shake. Why not consider a casino/hotel and convention center and football stadium complex on the river?

 

[southernindianaballer]

Maybe it's time to put all cirremt plans on hold, and let the movers and chakers more and shake. Why not consider a casino/hotel and convention center and football stadium complex on the river?

Agree 100%... I said several months ago a convention center, stadium, hotel and casino are perfect. 7-10k people in for a football game several times a year. Bringing Diesel Fest events to the casino/stadium/convention center - that will make money! Each football game becomes a potential all day event with shows and eats following the game with some gambling. LOL Retractable seating with a capacity of 15-20k is possible and makes the convention center much more versatile for large farm/ag shows and could even compete for big space events. I'm serious... An open convention center design with retractable seating all around. Ability to navigate with ease between casino, hotel and convention area/stadium. Don't forget the Bird museum.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

https://www.tribstar.com/news/local...cle_a3a35634-1891-59b7-9d3b-d7414a81148d.html

Some thought provoking opinions here... This kind of a thing isn't going to come about without some people in opposition - I'm not naive to that. I liked the quote about a 2nd Menards, 3rd Walmart, 5th Starbucks etc. etc. basically suggesting it just shifts where the money is spent it doesn't necessarily presume more money will be spent. I could argue that but I won't - I just found it to be an interesting take.

The question really comes down to - can Terre Haute compete for gamblers that would otherwise go to St. Louis, Peoria, Evansville, French Lick and Shelbytuckey?

 

[Southgrad07]

https://www.tribstar.com/news/local...cle_a3a35634-1891-59b7-9d3b-d7414a81148d.html

Some thought provoking opinions here... This kind of a thing isn't going to come about without some people in opposition - I'm not naive to that. I liked the quote about a 2nd Menards, 3rd Walmart, 5th Starbucks etc. etc. basically suggesting it just shifts where the money is spent it doesn't necessarily presume more money will be spent. I could argue that but I won't - I just found it to be an interesting take.

The question really comes down to - can Terre Haute compete for gamblers that would otherwise go to St. Louis, Peoria, Evansville, French Lick and Shelbytuckey?

I agree. IF we decide to build one then it needs to be done right and be part of a bigger downtown attraction plan. If you can't get people to choose us over the areas above (given similar distance for the individual making the decision) then it is a poor choice IMO to bring one in.

 

[niklz62]

I like when people say WE. I don’t know why anyone who isnt putting their own money in on it gets an opinion other than “it would be nice”.

 

[rapala]

When the convention center plans were released, it was stated that we could possibly save the copper bar and the terminal building. Wonder if that Greg had all of this in mind?

 

[Southgrad07]

I like when people say WE. I don’t know why anyone who isnt putting their own money in on it gets an opinion other than “it would be nice”.

because WE care about the future development of the town WE live in and our kids are growing up in..Not rocket science boss

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

When the convention center plans were released, it was stated that we could possibly save the copper bar and the terminal building. Wonder if that Greg had all of this in mind?

The year is not 1989 and this is not a video game. What video game would I be speaking of (answer at the end)? I'd hate to guess at "what Gibson had in his mind" - but since it's a message board I will attempt to guess:

- I think his plan was always to preserve the Copper and Terminal and hope was in doing so that they would be reinvigorated by the convention center and hotel projects. That all said - I've heard several people tell me that structurally the Terminal has issues?? Not sure if that is fact or not - regardless both Copper and Terminal appear to be in need of a major renovation.

- I've got to think the casino opportunity came up around the same time he was engaged with the HC project and he viewed both projects as mutually exclusive to one another. In doing so, I'm sure he thought that the convention center and downtown hotel could benefit eventually from a casino but I don't believe that it was ever intend that the projects would be connected by anything other than his money/name. I also think that he knows better than to further delay one development (convention center) in hopes that a casino with a high probability of being denied is actually approved. Even if the timelines did work - I'm certain the downtown footprint wouldn't allow for both to be constructed - not without closing a couple God forsaken streets anyway.

We don't live in a perfect world and even if we did Terre Haute would still be far far far from perfect. In a perfect world sure we would have:

- A standalone Football Stadium on the campus/river. With a retractable roof that doubled as a convention center that tripled as a horse track and so on...

- The only possibility of a football stadium on the river in the foreseeable future was if they were able to make a joint facility in conjunction with the track. I was recently told the track was constructed in a way that a football field could be built inside of it. Even if that is the case having seen the facility I'm not sure that is a great option for our football stadium. I was in favor of building a track in a football stadium. I'm not in favor of building a football stadium around a track. The spectator sport that should have taken prescient when building this facility should have been football - unfortunately ISU Brass, alums, former players didn't see it this way. Now you have Memorial Stadium with a new field, new lights, new practice field - enjoy!

- A casino on the river is likely not going to happen. I think the jail probably ends up on the river front and occupies a large chunk of riverfront real-estate. Once that location is spoken for I'm not where else they could build it that would make sense.


In talking about these endless possibilities it's like people suddenly forgot about the fact that:

- We've been sitting on state allocated dollars for over 3 years and were not able to renovate the Hulman Center into a multi-use convention center and museum.

- People are upset with Gibson for closing a road and building a convention center, a hotel and a parking garage in the bustling city of downtown Terre Haute.

- City political leaders have been arguing with the public for over 2 years now on where/how/why/when to build a jail.

But in a perfect world if we could have a convention center, hotel, parking garage, football stadium, casino and amphitheater all developed with each-other in mind that would be a beautiful thing. But the year is not 1989 and (answer) we're not playing Sim City here - all of those things are not going to happen in the first place and they are most certainly all not going to happen in complete harmony with one another.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

The year is not 1989 and this is not a video game. What video game would I be speaking of (answer at the end)? I'd hate to guess at "what Gibson had in his mind" - but since it's a message board I will attempt to guess:

- I think his plan was always to preserve the Copper and Terminal and hope was in doing so that they would be reinvigorated by the convention center and hotel projects. That all said - I've heard several people tell me that structurally the Terminal has issues?? Not sure if that is fact or not - regardless both Copper and Terminal appear to be in need of a major renovation.

- I've got to think the casino opportunity came up around the same time he was engaged with the HC project and he viewed both projects as mutually exclusive to one another. In doing so, I'm sure he thought that the convention center and downtown hotel could benefit eventually from a casino but I don't believe that it was ever intend that the projects would be connected by anything other than his money/name. I also think that he knows better than to further delay one development (convention center) in hopes that a casino with a high probability of being denied is actually approved. Even if the timelines did work - I'm certain the downtown footprint wouldn't allow for both to be constructed - not without closing a couple God forsaken streets anyway.

We don't live in a perfect world and even if we did Terre Haute would still be far far far from perfect. In a perfect world sure we would have:

- A standalone Football Stadium on the campus/river. With a retractable roof that doubled as a convention center that tripled as a horse track and so on...

- The only possibility of a football stadium on the river in the foreseeable future was if they were able to make a joint facility in conjunction with the track. I was recently told the track was constructed in a way that a football field could be built inside of it. Even if that is the case having seen the facility I'm not sure that is a great option for our football stadium. I was in favor of building a track in a football stadium. I'm not in favor of building a football stadium around a track. The spectator sport that should have taken prescient when building this facility should have been football - unfortunately ISU Brass, alums, former players didn't see it this way. Now you have Memorial Stadium with a new field, new lights, new practice field - enjoy!

- A casino on the river is likely not going to happen. I think the jail probably ends up on the river front and occupies a large chunk of riverfront real-estate. Once that location is spoken for I'm not where else they could build it that would make sense.


In talking about these endless possibilities it's like people suddenly forgot about the fact that:

- We've been sitting on state allocated dollars for over 3 years and were not able to renovate the Hulman Center into a multi-use convention center and museum.

- People are upset with Gibson for closing a road and building a convention center, a hotel and a parking garage in the bustling city of downtown Terre Haute.

- City political leaders have been arguing with the public for over 2 years now on where/how/why/when to build a jail.

But in a perfect world if we could have a convention center, hotel, parking garage, football stadium, casino and amphitheater all developed with each-other in mind that would be a beautiful thing. But the year is not 1989 and (answer) we're not playing Sim City here - all of those things are not going to happen in the first place and they are most certainly all not going to happen in complete harmony with one another.

Not sure how this comment fits with what you just wrote, most of which was really good, but this is the thought I had while reading it - part of Terre Haute's problem is that NO PROJECTS happen in harmony with each other. That's what makes no sense to me with the jail - they're taking a big chunk of the riverfront and removing it from ever being used to create something cool. That's the definition of short sighted. I'm not sure why the convention center, a proposed football stadium, amphitheater, resort/casino can't happen in concert with one another. If the city/county had any decent leadership, these projects would be a part of a well thought out master plan. But this is Terre Haute and Vigo County we're talking about. Too many little kings building too many little kingdoms. Really pathetic, but as you state, it's reality.

I'm now on Gibson's side - as a private citizen, take the risk, make the money. That's what business is all about. But he's dealing with a government that put the FUN in dysfunctional. So many possibilities being discussed. Most of which will never happen because of this dysfunction. Sad...

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Not sure how this comment fits with what you just wrote, most of which was really good, but this is the thought I had while reading it - part of Terre Haute's problem is that NO PROJECTS happen in harmony with each other. That's what makes no sense to me with the jail - they're taking a big chunk of the riverfront and removing it from ever being used to create something cool. That's the definition of short sighted. I'm not sure why the convention center, a proposed football stadium, amphitheater, resort/casino can't happen in concert with one another. If the city/county had any decent leadership, these projects would be a part of a well thought out master plan. But this is Terre Haute and Vigo County we're talking about. Too many little kings building too many little kingdoms. Really pathetic, but as you state, it's reality.

I'm now on Gibson's side - as a private citizen, take the risk, make the money. That's what business is all about. But he's dealing with a government that put the FUN in dysfunctional. So many possibilities being discussed. Most of which will never happen because of this dysfunction. Sad...

God the curious side of me really wants to ask someone closer to all of this than myself - "who approached who or has anyone approached anyone? Did city/county officials contact Gibson when they heard of the possibility of a casino and ask him if the riverfront would be considered?" I mean - he was working with them in conjunction with the CIB on the proposed convention center they had to discuss all of this. Right?!

My gut tells me that river wasn't ever considered or discussed for a potential casino because certain elected officials are so hell bent on that location in the first place and again the timeline doesn't really work. We need a new jail sooner than later and who knows if/when a casino will actually happen. Hell - given the remote possibility of a casino I would hope they would just find another location for the jail but that simply aint going to happen.

As you said - it's very short-sighted. The reality of the situation is the bitch of it all. Don't think for a second that Indianapolis and state political leaders are not taking a hard look at Terre Haute and going - "do we really think they can get a casino right?"

Redundant but just so those keeping track at home can see the incompetency of this town all in one space:

- Hell bent on putting a jail on prime riverfront property. 2 years and counting - no decision.

- School superintended and board all basically removed for major ethical and legal violations.

- 3 highschools that are outdated and in horrible condition. All headed for public referendum? Maybe?

- State funding awarded in 2015 for the HC which has just now started within the last 2 months.

- A convention center that was supposed to be part of the project and they got sideways with one another and put the gloves on and let it all play out in the media.

I mean all of this drama unfolding in the last 5 years. We're lucky Greg Gibson is investing any money in this town and even putting his name on the line in the first place - given all that went on with the HC he could have pulled the plug completely on the convention center, hotel, parking garage and now possibility of a casino. Rather - he flexed his muscles and had an impact on who became the next President of Indiana State University and he's basically single handily heading up some of the largest economic development projects this town has ever seen.

 

[meistro]

Greg Gibson is the only reason I think this stuff (casino, convention center) can actually happen. The man obviously knows how to make money and make things happen, which go hand in hand. I don't know him, but judging from his interviews, I think he's made lots of money and now wants his legacy to be helping Terre Haute thrive. I hope he succeeds.

 

[Westbadenboy]

All of this is very interesting and I hope most ...all...of it gets done ----done right.

But can anyone explain to me the rationale (whether or not you agree with it) that's being given for putting a new jail along the river ? What reason are officials giving for placing it there ?


I really mean it when I say I hope these projects get done and well done. But from Ralph Tucker to Leland Larrison to the present, things never seems to work out well for Terre Haute. Lots of factors at the root, but I'm back there several times a year and I'm hoping for the best …..hoping