Fox Sports says it's Lansing...

[TJames]

at one time...isu was invited to be part of the mac....when ball state was invited...

but the leadership at isu turned down the offer......had they accepted the invitation...i think that things would be a lot different now at indiana state in regards to athletics......and i mean for the better.......

 

[IndyTreeFan]

You gotta fill us in on that one, Tom. At that time, the MVC wasn't exactly the creme de la creme of college athletics, so why did we turn down the offer? I'm sure it was typical ISU inferiority complex stuff, but I'd love to hear the story...

 

[TJames]

well..from what i was told...the powers-that-be......at isu....

at the time....didn't think the mac would be a good option for indiana state...the mac wanted isu to come in with ball state....so that the cardinals would have a natural rival in the conference...and have a close travel partner....

buuuuuuuuuuuuuut...the isu officials...in their infinite wisdom.....LOL...I AM BERING VERRRRRRY SARCASTIC HERE....decided not to accept the offer....i think alan rankin was the president at the time.....later....when dr. landini took over and isu WANTED to join a conference...they approached the mac...and was turned down...

they then turned to the mvc.....

 

[4Q_iu]

at the time....didn't think the mac would be a good option for indiana state...the mac wanted isu to come in with ball state....so that the cardinals would have a natural rival in the conference...and have a close travel partner...

I can't find any historical data --- was State pretty much on-par with the MAC schools at that time?? (enrollment, endowment, etc)

Are you suggesting that had State joined the MAC when ISU-M did, that we would have a 20K+ student body and $150M+ in the State foundation?

 

[Bally #50]

We were closer to their size then than we are now. Had we increased enrollment at a slow steady pace, we would have still been smaller than those schools, but obviously our enrollment has declined over the past couple of decades so the gap has widened.

Did it effect our growth because we didn't join? Maybe but not likely. When I was in school, we belonged to the CMU (Conference of Midwestern Universities) and we were more than competitive against then CMU-members BSU, Central Michigan and Northern Illinois, that are now current members of the MAC. I would imagine that today, we are more than competitive against BSU or any other MAC school in most anything other than football but we're on par with the MAC in all other sports.

I have said for years that although, like TJ, I was glad that we didn't join the MAC, that it might have changed our course in history quite a bit had we done so. D-1 football would have been an easy transition in the 70's as we were already drawing crowds in the 15,000 range for an average.

 

[4Q_iu]

...I have said for years that although, like TJ, I was glad that we didn't join the MAC, that it might have changed our course in history quite a bit had we done so. D-1 football would have been an easy transition in the 70's as we were already drawing crowds in the 15,000 range for an average.

Changed? In what way?? For the better or worse???

To me, the 'formalization' of iupui and then the creation of ISU-E have done more to hurt State (in many, many ways) than being a Div I-A, Div-AA or Div II program in the ICC, Midwestern Conf, the MVC or the MAC.

But that ship has sailed; the recent 'growth' of the iu-regional high school system is another (IMO) factor...

 

[Bally #50]

Changed? In what way?? For the better or worse???

To me, the 'formalization' of iupui and then the creation of ISU-E have done more to hurt State (in many, many ways) than being a Div I-A, Div-AA or Div II program in the ICC, Midwestern Conf, the MVC or the MAC.

But that ship has sailed; the recent 'growth' of the iu-regional high school system is another (IMO) factor...

4Q, not sure there is a correct answer to whether we might be better or worse. The quick and easy answer is that I think we would have been BETTER off by joining the MAC. Long-term stability in ALL sports, Division 1A football, having Ball State as "the" rival with many schools within driving distance, and so on, does sound like an improvement to me. I like the MoVal, but we don't have the natural rivalry there, and 1-AA football with our changing conferences, and different schools than our outher sports, all seem to me, to detract from our athletics.

There is no right or wrong answer, 4Q. I just think that the MAC would have been long-term, a better thing for our university. I was totally against it at the time and I know many others back then were as well. Hindsight is 20-20 of course.

 

[4Q_iu]

4Q, not sure there is a correct answer to whether we might be better or worse. The quick and easy answer is that I think we would have been BETTER off by joining the MAC. Long-term stability in ALL sports, Division 1A football, having Ball State as "the" rival with many schools within driving distance, and so on, does sound like an improvement to me. I like the MoVal, but we don't have the natural rivalry there, and 1-AA football with our changing conferences, and different schools than our outher sports, all seem to me, to detract from our athletics.

There is no right or wrong answer, 4Q. I just think that the MAC would have been long-term, a better thing for our university. I was totally against it at the time and I know many others back then were as well. Hindsight is 20-20 of course.

I don't think I'd ever heard about the 'flirtation' with the MAC until now; long-term, being in the MAC would likely have served us well; it might be a wash in the travel but maintaining the rivalry with ISU-M would have a good thing.

Looks like Northern Ill got the 'nod' over us in 1973 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-American_Conference ) The MVC is a better basketball conference and while the MVFC is a good FCS conf, the MAC is 'still' FBS...

 

[Bally #50]

The years when BSU, Central Michigan, and Northern Illinois entered the MAC are the years we almost joined. For some reason, I can't remember if Eastern Michigan was in with us in the CMU but for some reason, I think there were not. I loaned out my 1971 Yearbook so I can't give you a quick answer on that! I totally agree that the MoVal is an upgrade over the MAC in hoops but other than that, I would say the MAC is on par with the minor sports, if not a slight upgrade.

When you play a different group of teams in football than in basketball, it just takes away from the rivalries, I would say. Obviously with the MVCFC, it has helped but being a small 1-A school would have been my preference to our split affiliations. It just an opinion and not a strong one at that, certainly more of a preference than an objection.

 

[4Q_iu]

For on the CMU

The years when BSU, Central Michigan, and Northern Illinois entered the MAC are the years we almost joined. For some reason, I can't remember if Eastern Michigan was in with us in the CMU but for some reason, I think there were not. I loaned out my 1971 Yearbook so I can't give you a quick answer on that! I totally agree that the MoVal is an upgrade over the MAC in hoops but other than that, I would say the MAC is on par with the minor sports, if not a slight upgrade.

When you play a different group of teams in football than in basketball, it just takes away from the rivalries, I would say. Obviously with the MVCFC, it has helped but being a small 1-A school would have been my preference to our split affiliations. It just an opinion and not a strong one at that, certainly more of a preference than an objection.

Yep -- our rivalries would be better if we played the same schools in all sports...

Andy Amey mentioned the CMU in the following article:
http://tribstar.com/amey_takes_aim/...-Pick-a-skill-and-Billy-The-Kid-Harris-had-it

The CMU was the Conference of Midwestern Universities, a five-team (which was the problem) league formed almost 40 years ago uniting Indiana State, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Ball State and Northern Illinois.

It died a premature death because six teams were necessary for an automatic bid to the NCAA basketball tournament, and that’s a shame. In its few years of existence, the league had five teams who basically hated each other, the NBA’s No. 1 draft pick in Doug Collins of Illinois State, and the best college basketball team nobody has ever heard of.

After reading this article, I crunched the CMU standings; we finished 2nd both seasons (I believe); we had 3 All-Conf players:

1971 George Pillow
1971 Bob Barker
1972 Dan Bush

I also haven't been able to find out more -- am thinking it was a basketball only conference (it's not listed in the football or baseball media guides...)

I'll see if I still have those CMU standings on my PC

 

[Bally #50]

That sounds like Central Michigan was NOT in but I know we played them in most sports. It might be that Central, Western and Eastern Michigan killed the CMU because they had planned to joined and ended up joining the MAC instead, and the subsequent "backing" out of the deal caused some ISU administrator-types to be anti-MAC. Not sure but it would make sense. I am pretty sure football was part of it, as were most sports, including our outstanding gymnastic teams and wrestling program.

 

[Fiji Bill 72]

I know that Central Michigan was a member because I could not understand CMU for them and CMU for the name of the conference. I think it was CMW, BSU, ISU, SIU and EMU

 

[Bally #50]

I know that Central Michigan was a member because I could not understand CMU for them and CMU for the name of the conference. I think it was CMW, BSU, ISU, SIU and EMU

Bill, It sure seemed like they were to me. Like I said, I need my 71 yearbook to answer that but it sure automatically popped up in my mind when the CMU conference names popped up. They were so-oo good in football, we could just NEVER beat them. You and I are on the same wavelength because I am not sure about EMU as well. I am beginning to think that those two were going to join the CMU, maybe even had, and then chose to jump ship into the MAC. After 43 years at the Bally, I guess my memory has just become cloudy.

 

[4Q_iu]

Did you read Amey's article? According to him, the CMU members were: State, ISU-M, Illinois State, Northern Illinois and Southern Illinois...

A merged MVC and MAC could be a great conference; though I'd push out Temple, Buffalo (good school though) and the Great Plains schools; I'd call it the Wabash Valley conference:

State, Illinois State, ISU-M, Miami, Evansville, Bradley... others??

Football would be a problem; either everyone is in (like the MAC) or you have the same situation as the MVC today

 

[Bally #50]

I read Andy's article (we were at ISU together as well) and he is right, the five were officially members in 1971. I think where the fuzzy memory starts-- is that the expansion plans seem to have been derailed. At one point, Central and Eastern were part of the formula as well just maybe not officially.

I think it is awesome that Andy is still there and it doesn't surprise me either because he was an first-class sports editor of the Statesmen during my years at Indiana State.

 

[4Q_iu]

I read Andy's article (we were at ISU together as well) and he is right, the five were officially members in 1971. I think where the fuzzy memory starts-- is that the expansion plans seem to have been derailed. At one point, Central and Eastern were part of the formula as well just maybe not officially.

I think it is awesome that Andy is still there and it doesn't surprise me either because he was an first-class sports editor of the Statesmen during my years at Indiana State.

Kinda like the Big Ten and Pac-10s expansion plans!!

If both stay at 12 members; I don't see nd being forced into a conference until the BCS cuts them out; if the BCS drew a firm line and called themselves the BCCS (Bowl CONFERNECE Championship Series)... They'd join in a heartbeat (and I'd put $$$ on the Big East because they could: a - thumb their nose at the Big Ten and b - they THINK they would/could dominate it)

 

[BankShot]

Sycamore '71

I'm somewhat familiar the "Animal" from Lowell, IN...didn't he once live @ 1224 S. 6th St. during his decade of undergraduate excellence in the social sciences...and sportswriting?

Here's what it says on P124-125

RIVALRIES

were strengthened with the formation of the Academic and Athletic Association of Midwestern Universities in September, 1969.

Ball State, Illinois State, Northern Illinois and Southern Illinois joined Indiana State in the association which consists of two divisions, the Academic Affairs Conference and Intercollegiate Athletics Division - known as the Conference of Midwestern Universities.

Conference champions were determined in the first year of competition in X-C, basketball, wrestling, gymnastics, swimming, indoor & outdoor track, golf, tennis & baseball. A round-robin football schedule will begin in 1974.

Jack McClelland, former Commissioner of the North Central Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, took over as the first Commissioner of the CMU, which has offices in Indianapolis.
---------------------------
P127 lists the following CMU school enrolments:
- NIU 25, 197
- SIU 23,197
- ILSU 17,500
- BSU 16,500
--ISU 13,900

My question...who in the hell is pulling on Cleo's chain in the ISU Homecoming Parade pic on P134? BTW...if you wanna see the "Animal" on stage, see P146in the Campus Revue. Almost looks like John Belushi in "Animal House!"

***Bally39, I understand your frustration with the loss of your '71 Yearbook. I stumbled upon a Purdue '70 Yearbook that had GREAT pics of our upset hoop win - loaned it out - gone forever, with no idea of its whereabouts. I'm still pissed...

 

[Bally #50]

Who knows. I had hoped that the "flood gates opening" last week would have been a bit more dramatical that Colorado and Utah to the Pac-10 and Nebraska to the Big Ten. My gut is that there is much more to come within the next 6 months or so. I personally felt that Notre Dame would join the Big Ten but I am less confident now. I heard someone on the radio say the other day, when addressing all the conference moves....."Those who don't know are doing all the talking-- and the ones that know what's going on, aren't talking."

So true. I guess we'll need to stay tuned.

 

[Bally #50]

I'm somewhat familiar the "Animal" from Lowell, IN...didn't he once live @ 1224 S. 6th St. during his decade of undergraduate excellence in the social sciences...and sportswriting?

Here's what it says on P124-125

RIVALRIES

were strengthened with the formation of the Academic and Athletic Association of Midwestern Universities in September, 1969.

Ball State, Illinois State, Northern Illinois and Southern Illinois joined Indiana State in the association which consists of two divisions, the Academic Affairs Conference and Intercollegiate Athletics Division - known as the Conference of Midwestern Universities.

Conference champions were determined in the first year of competition in X-C, basketball, wrestling, gymnastics, swimming, indoor & outdoor track, golf, tennis & baseball. A round-robin football schedule will begin in 1974.

Jack McClelland, former Commissioner of the North Central Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, took over as the first Commissioner of the CMU, which has offices in Indianapolis.
---------------------------
P127 lists the following CMU school enrolments:
- NIU 25, 197
- SIU 23,197
- ILSU 17,500
- BSU 16,500
--ISU 13,900

My question...who in the hell is pulling on Cleo's chain in the ISU Homecoming Parade pic on P134? BTW...if you wanna see the "Animal" on stage, see P146in the Campus Revue. Almost looks like John Belushi in "Animal House!"

***Bally39, I understand your frustration with the loss of your '71 Yearbook. I stumbled upon a Purdue '70 Yearbook that had GREAT pics of our upset hoop win - loaned it out - gone forever, with no idea of its whereabouts. I'm still pissed...

I know that last message was a little late but I got tied up at work for an hour or so and hadn't sent it. As for you last comments, Bank, I know where the yearbook is. One of my brothers has it, but it has driven me nuts that he hasn't brought it back yet and I haven't been in his neighborhood lately either. Thanks for the update on the CMU. Do you remember why EMU and Central Mich keep coming up in our memories here? I am convinced that they were joining and that might be the reason I keep thinking they were part of it, and then just opted at the last moment to go to the MAC, ultimately killing the CMU. With all due respect to FijiBill who likely worked on the 71 Sycamore (he was Editor the next year), that was the UGLIEST cover on a yearbook--EVER~

 

[BankShot]

Come on...it went well with the "Hippie Era," didn't it? As I thumbed thru the pages, I couldn't believe some of the clothing styles - in retrospect, I think that drug use was GREATER than most people thought!

BTW, hope the "Chief" didn't step on any hot coals while fanning the flames for that Homecoming portrait!
----------------
Bally39:

In my '72 YB on P136 the heading reads, "Conference of Midwestern Universities defunct as of June 30, 1972." The article blames SIU for "getting the big head" and causing the death blow, withdrawing during the '72-73 school year. The Conference required all members to work towards NCAA University status in ALL SPORTS as soon as conceivable, but the Salukis did not want certification in FOOTBALL. The NCAA 26k football stadium size requirement by '80 was a further problem to CMU credibility.

Says that Akron & Cincy were "strongly rumored" as new members of the CMU with Dayton also looking. The MAC had just expanded by adding EMU & CMU after offering to ISU, BSU, NIU & IL St.