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BlueSycamore
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Timely article today
http://frankthetank.me/2015/03/25/u...east-wichita-state-uab-mvc-and-down-the-line/
http://frankthetank.me/2015/03/25/u...east-wichita-state-uab-mvc-and-down-the-line/
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Horizon League will expand, IPFW to announce move Tuesday
- Thread starter ISUCC
- Start date
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and from Mike Reis, the SIU radio broadcaster
Couple of facts for the discussion, boys: MVC talked to Belmont about joining when Creighton left. Belmont said no. You have to commit to fully funding ALL your sports schollie-wise in the MVC. That's big $. Not sure about OVC commitment. They also didn't want to move just one year after leaving the Atlantic Sun. Things could be different now, I don't know. I.E.: When UNI joined the MVC, it offered just 2 BSB schollies. MVC teams offer 11.7. They got crushed till they upped the commitment, which took several years.
MVC was uneasy about ORU financially. Apparently the school has some issues. Even the schools on that side of the MVC weren't interested in them last time.
I'm told MVC talked to Dayton when CU left, but admins at private schools like Dayton, SLU, Creighton, etc. want to go East with their athletic programs now if they can because there are more students available there to recruit with their athletic profile than there are in the Midwest.
MVC has been anti-divisions to this point. That is, if there are going to be 11 or 12 teams in the league, they will all be together and play each other twice. No East and West Divisions.
MVC presidents are picky about academic profile. All current schools have rated research programs. Dayton does. Belmont does. Butler. Western Ky does not. Murray? I don't know. All current schools are pretty similar academically. But academic harmony matters when you try to get 10 college presidents to make athletic decisions.
$ matters. Every school added means one less share of TV and NCAA Tourney money for each school. More schools divvying up the pie. That's about $30,000 per school added. So any school added now has to bring $ with it. That's usually in the form of NCAA Tourney appearances from their previous conference but, in Loyola's case, it was additional sponsorship $ from the Chicago TV market.
Any of this could change at any time. Wouldn't surprise me if it did.
Couple of facts for the discussion, boys: MVC talked to Belmont about joining when Creighton left. Belmont said no. You have to commit to fully funding ALL your sports schollie-wise in the MVC. That's big $. Not sure about OVC commitment. They also didn't want to move just one year after leaving the Atlantic Sun. Things could be different now, I don't know. I.E.: When UNI joined the MVC, it offered just 2 BSB schollies. MVC teams offer 11.7. They got crushed till they upped the commitment, which took several years.
MVC was uneasy about ORU financially. Apparently the school has some issues. Even the schools on that side of the MVC weren't interested in them last time.
I'm told MVC talked to Dayton when CU left, but admins at private schools like Dayton, SLU, Creighton, etc. want to go East with their athletic programs now if they can because there are more students available there to recruit with their athletic profile than there are in the Midwest.
MVC has been anti-divisions to this point. That is, if there are going to be 11 or 12 teams in the league, they will all be together and play each other twice. No East and West Divisions.
MVC presidents are picky about academic profile. All current schools have rated research programs. Dayton does. Belmont does. Butler. Western Ky does not. Murray? I don't know. All current schools are pretty similar academically. But academic harmony matters when you try to get 10 college presidents to make athletic decisions.
$ matters. Every school added means one less share of TV and NCAA Tourney money for each school. More schools divvying up the pie. That's about $30,000 per school added. So any school added now has to bring $ with it. That's usually in the form of NCAA Tourney appearances from their previous conference but, in Loyola's case, it was additional sponsorship $ from the Chicago TV market.
Any of this could change at any time. Wouldn't surprise me if it did.
Good post ISUCC.... I will add - many mistakes in the business world are that of underestimation... I hope the MVC does not underestimate the potential value and win/wins available in this midwest market. Anchor cities of Indy, St, Louis, Cinci, & Nashville bring a lot to the table for everyone.
bent20
The Odum Level
I'm not sure how much the big markets matter unless you get a team that a lot of people there follow. Do that many people in Chicago really give a damn about Loyola? Even if they do, it has the smallest gym in the MVC.
As for Belmont, I'm sure they're biding their time until they can make a more substantial jump. Probably waiting for the Big Priest to expand.
As for Belmont, I'm sure they're biding their time until they can make a more substantial jump. Probably waiting for the Big Priest to expand.
I think there is a lot more to the equation aside form attendance and/or fan support.
As for Belmont, they'd be like 6-8 teams down the list with any Big East expansion I'd think.
yeah, Belmont is never going to the Big East, best case scenario for them is the MVC and I just don't see it happening this go around.
Denver hasn't been thrown into the talks much, that is an easy place to get to for most MVC teams. It wouldn't be too bad for Indiana State, the only sports Denver sponsors that we also sponsor are mens and women basketball, women's soccer, and volleyball. That's a direct flight from Indy to Denver if I'm not mistaken.
They and ORU would be long shots. Some people also mentioned New Mexico State, but travel would be a big problem there. Nebraska-Omaha is probably too new to D-I sports to be considered for MVC membership, again, not out of the footprint as that's where Creighton was of course.
I wonder if we will be proactive and act before the Horizon League, or wait to see what they do, then decide if their additions cause us to need to add a team or 2?
Also, if teams are taken from the OVC, does that send Western Illinois to the OVC, that would be a MUCH better fit for them than the league they're in now. They really don't compete in any sports in the Summit right now. A perennial cellar dwellar. And they wouldn't have to fly anywhere anymore.
Denver hasn't been thrown into the talks much, that is an easy place to get to for most MVC teams. It wouldn't be too bad for Indiana State, the only sports Denver sponsors that we also sponsor are mens and women basketball, women's soccer, and volleyball. That's a direct flight from Indy to Denver if I'm not mistaken.
They and ORU would be long shots. Some people also mentioned New Mexico State, but travel would be a big problem there. Nebraska-Omaha is probably too new to D-I sports to be considered for MVC membership, again, not out of the footprint as that's where Creighton was of course.
I wonder if we will be proactive and act before the Horizon League, or wait to see what they do, then decide if their additions cause us to need to add a team or 2?
Also, if teams are taken from the OVC, does that send Western Illinois to the OVC, that would be a MUCH better fit for them than the league they're in now. They really don't compete in any sports in the Summit right now. A perennial cellar dwellar. And they wouldn't have to fly anywhere anymore.
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Does anyone else on this thread see a potential for 14 teams in the MVC? UAB is a decent shot... then both Murray and Belmont have to be "open" to a better league and all 3 of those schools, I think, are a pretty good fit. Belmont matches well with the MVC privates and UAB and Murray fit well with the MVC publics.
If that were to happen, by some strange lining up of the planets and stars - who would be the team to get the MVC to 14? Does the MVC want 14? I think if those schools are interested, the answer is YES - because they bring a "value add" and they fit. Agree or disagree? If you think you might agree - then who is #14?
Also - weaker schools sit out there that have not been discussed... Chicago State, Neb Omaha, UMKC, SEMO, etc.
St. Louis prob not a fit?
If that were to happen, by some strange lining up of the planets and stars - who would be the team to get the MVC to 14? Does the MVC want 14? I think if those schools are interested, the answer is YES - because they bring a "value add" and they fit. Agree or disagree? If you think you might agree - then who is #14?
Also - weaker schools sit out there that have not been discussed... Chicago State, Neb Omaha, UMKC, SEMO, etc.
St. Louis prob not a fit?
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MVC will never be 14, that we can be sure of. 12 would be the max.
Yea... I think Western Illinois has OVC potential and maybe even UMKC. Who is a better fit for MVC Belmont or Murray or someone else? Funny.... adding UAB and Belmont and/or Murray changes the dynamics. The big picture changes, potentially, even for Big East candidates who reside in midwest. You have UAB, Wichita State, UNI, Murray, Belmont and ISU with recent NCAA runs... and recent success at fairly high levels... you could add Illinois State and any other MVC team who can make an NCAA run in any given year. Aside from Drake. The conference begins to look more attractive and not just geographically. Looks like a conference who kicked it up a notch. Frankly, basketball fans and minds will be intrigued by this conference if that happens... Does the MVC become more attractive for an upper level school and does it matter?
Jason, do you have a way to speculate on an MVC conference Power Ranking if UAB, Belmont and/or Murray were added? That may be an interesting scenario.
Sagarin has the numbers to calculate a new conference average. I assume those are just straight, unweighted team averages he uses.
MVC is 74.17
Belmont = 74.55
Murray = 80.91
UAB = 74.66
Their SOS would make their ratings go up playing in the Valley.
MVC is 74.17
Belmont = 74.55
Murray = 80.91
UAB = 74.66
Their SOS would make their ratings go up playing in the Valley.
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nothing new here yet, but we should be hearing more news on this soon. All the Horizon League people met this past week I believe I read.
Guesses on who they add, or if it will be 1 or 3 teams?
if you believe message board posters, then Northern Kentucky seems to be the leading candidate to add to the Horizon. If that happens, then that really doesn't affect too many other conferences. I still think IUPUI and IPFW will be in the mix for possible additions to the HL, there are no other schools that fit more perfectly in the Horizon League than those 2 schools. But we all know they're not the best schools for sports, so they may not make the cut. We'll know soon....
Guesses on who they add, or if it will be 1 or 3 teams?
if you believe message board posters, then Northern Kentucky seems to be the leading candidate to add to the Horizon. If that happens, then that really doesn't affect too many other conferences. I still think IUPUI and IPFW will be in the mix for possible additions to the HL, there are no other schools that fit more perfectly in the Horizon League than those 2 schools. But we all know they're not the best schools for sports, so they may not make the cut. We'll know soon....
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Horizon League announces they've selected a 10th member, but won't say who (yet), the new team is within bussing distance to Wright State
http://www.theguardianonline.com/sports/2015/04/24/horizon-league-to-add-10th-team/
I'm guessing Northern Kentucky (from the A-Sun), so this really won't impact the midwestern conferences too much. I would be surprised if it's IUPUI or IPFW, although geographically those 2 are great fits
if it's not NKU it'll be IPFW only because IPFW has baseball, IUPUI does not have baseball. Regardless who it is, Valpo fans aren't too happy because whoever they add will further drag down the conference ranking in the men's basketball RPI
http://www.theguardianonline.com/sports/2015/04/24/horizon-league-to-add-10th-team/
I'm guessing Northern Kentucky (from the A-Sun), so this really won't impact the midwestern conferences too much. I would be surprised if it's IUPUI or IPFW, although geographically those 2 are great fits
if it's not NKU it'll be IPFW only because IPFW has baseball, IUPUI does not have baseball. Regardless who it is, Valpo fans aren't too happy because whoever they add will further drag down the conference ranking in the men's basketball RPI
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worst kept secret out there, it will be NKU to the Horizon, LOL, this won't affect any of the midwestern conferences. Only the A-Sun
Horizon league will expand again this week to replace Valpo, per the Indy Star
they officially invited a "mystery" school that has a baseball team that's in the HL footprint. Can you say IPFW?
Looks like they could transfer for the 17-18 year, then the HL plans to add more teams for the 18-19 year too.
Interesting.
I'd say if IPFW goes this year, then IUPUI for SURE goes in 18-19. The Indiana schools do not belong in the Dakota conference.
they officially invited a "mystery" school that has a baseball team that's in the HL footprint. Can you say IPFW?
Looks like they could transfer for the 17-18 year, then the HL plans to add more teams for the 18-19 year too.
Interesting.
I'd say if IPFW goes this year, then IUPUI for SURE goes in 18-19. The Indiana schools do not belong in the Dakota conference.
well, so much for IPFW going, it's IUPUI that received the invite and will (More than likely) transition this summer to the Horizon League. Per the Indy Star. Maybe IPFW goes in 2018?
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I know out here Wright State fans are pissed. Wanted a school that at least brought baseball to the league, IUPUI doesn't bring a whole lot in basketball, and brings little outside of that too. Mainly seems to be about the Indy market.
Most Horizon fans seem to be "ok" with it, provided that the league expands further in the next year. If not, they will be really upset with this pick.
Most Horizon fans seem to be "ok" with it, provided that the league expands further in the next year. If not, they will be really upset with this pick.
I don't follow the Horizon with any regularity but is Wright State the "power school" in the conference?
Who were the other schools considered? Belmont? Murray? R. Morris?
Given iupui's $$$$, they can afford to start a baseball program, will they? Would the Horizon "request" it?
Definitely about the market.
I don't know that any of the schools in the Horizon are the Power schools, they are pretty comparable. I am a Wright State alum along with Indiana State and live in the Wright State area, so I hear a lot more about them than the others.
Most of the Horizon teams (especially Wright State) really wanted a team that brought baseball into the fold, and I think most thought it would be IPFW, but were hoping for something a little more outside the box, like Grand Canyon, or to a lessor extent Robert Morris. I didn't see anyone on any of the Horizon team message boards that wanted IUPUI, although most admitted that it was one of the most likely teams to be added.
Again, I think IUPUI is ok for them as long as they aren't the only team added. IF they add two more teams next year, and both have baseball and other sports I think IUPUI would be a lot easier to swallow for other teams' fans.