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If you were a head coach.....
- Thread starter TJames
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I voted yes. That said, there are certain offenses that if a potential transfer was involved with that I wouldn't want him here: sexual assualt, battery, DUI, etc. I can deal with underage drinking, disorderly conduct, etc.
I'm a firm believer in giving folks a second chance provided they've demonstrated their previous offenses are behind them and that they've learned from them. Additionally, kids can thrive/fail in different situations and circumstances.
I'm a firm believer in giving folks a second chance provided they've demonstrated their previous offenses are behind them and that they've learned from them. Additionally, kids can thrive/fail in different situations and circumstances.
To give an educated vote; I'd have to know the nature of the legal / academic issue; severity, intent, etc
I voted yes because everyone is entilted to making a mistake. Really it would boil down to the interview/personal interaction, his/her family situation, references, etc. If you got a kid with multiple discretions and he has been in and out of trouble since he was 15, he will most likely not yet learn from his mistakes...if you got a kid that raised some hell on a few occasions, that is different. I think it is really an issue of mentorship and of maturity. If the athlete shows signs of maturity and understanding that he can not and will not act in the same manner as he/she did in the past, I would be willing to give him/her a chance, provided I had a motivator in place (i.e. a mother, grandmother, uncle, family friend, pastor, etc.) that has been a positive influence in their life and/or can be a positive influence.
country123a
The Starter Level
Yes but with exteme caution
bent20
The Odum Level
Again, I agree with Jason here. I wouldn't have a blanket policy of not accepting any kid with a criminal violation. I'm not going to reject a player simply because they have a DUI or a misdemeanor misconduct charge. You have to know more about the kid and can't make the same decision in every case. As far as academic issues go, I'd be less likely to take one of those players unless they had a tutor and were showing a real commitment to improving their grades. A transfer who can't play because of academic problems is just going to tie up a scholarship.
What prompted these black or white poll questions, Tom? We're not fools. We understand that coaches have a lot of factors to consider when recruiting and trying to win.
What prompted these black or white poll questions, Tom? We're not fools. We understand that coaches have a lot of factors to consider when recruiting and trying to win.
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I don't know Tom ask the Cubs if they would have signed Milton Bradly if they had a do over?
It seems as if teams only get into more trouble when they make exceptions to "unwritten rules".
It seems as if teams only get into more trouble when they make exceptions to "unwritten rules".
Just to play devil's advocate... for every Milton Bradley, there is a kid like Michael Oher that just needs a chance.
And for every Michael Oher... ok you get the point, the list goes on and on. It's like trying to predict what kind of "healthcare reform" to expect... It's impossible to do, so you can only attempt to put yourself in a position to respond one way or another to whatever happens. Let me qualify that by saying, you stay away from something that might trap you like a 5 year 30 million $ contract to a player with on and off the field issues ala Milton Bradley.
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Exactly. Additionally, if you bring them in, you let them know they're on a zero tolerance type of deal. As long as the coach is fine with managing things like this, it really shouldn't be a big deal.
What got me thinking about transfers was after talking to some people
....during the Southern Illinois game...I guess different schools in the MVC -- such as Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Western Illinois -- as well as Eastern Illinois have taken Division I transfers who left their previous schools due to legal problems, such as being arrested for possession or use of pot or for other offenses.....I just wondered what everybody would think if Indiana State took those kind of kids as well.....because you just KNOW that somebody would get offended and start some thread about the Sycamores bringing in troublemakers or something...lol......
....during the Southern Illinois game...I guess different schools in the MVC -- such as Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Western Illinois -- as well as Eastern Illinois have taken Division I transfers who left their previous schools due to legal problems, such as being arrested for possession or use of pot or for other offenses.....I just wondered what everybody would think if Indiana State took those kind of kids as well.....because you just KNOW that somebody would get offended and start some thread about the Sycamores bringing in troublemakers or something...lol......
new sycamore fan
The All-MVC Level
I'm all for giving kids who have made mistakes a second chance. That being said, there is clearly no stock answer to the question, other than you absolutely do not want to bring kids in that won't fit in with the program that Coach Miles has (take school seriously and go to classes, be a team first player, and zero tolerance for previous offenders). The coaches have to rely to some degree on the previous coaches opinion, and the rest is on their interview with the player during the recruiting process. This is tough, because if they were really good players, the D1 school would find a way to keep them. I think it's pretty rare to get an excellent transfer who fits in well and is clearly a better talent. If you look at our roster and the D1 transfers, nobody really jumps out as being head and shoulders above the rest. I'm hoping we can find some linemen and some playmakers that are good kids just stuck in the numbers game.
Schmidtke came in with a checkered past, Miles gave him a shot, but he simply didn't hold his end of the bargain I presume.
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niklz62
The JSW Level
I'm ok with giving that kid or any other a shot. i suppose they just need to know they are on a short leash. Brandon Jacobs worked out real good for SIU
As I said earlier.....
I am not against bringing in Division I transfers, juco transfers or even high school kids who have had a checkered past......that is, providing that those same kids want to have a second chance and are going to make the best of it.....and honestly try to stay out of trouble......
The best story that I can relate to that is former Sycamores wide receiver Charles Swann. He was an outstanding athlete from South Bend who was getting looks from schools such as Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State and Nebraska. But there was a huge question mark about him. He was about 6-3, 190 and could jump out of the gymnasium. And he could run. Lord, how could he run.
He rebelled against male authority figures. He was often sullen and would get into heated arguments with coaches and teachers. There was some thought as to whether he had some sort of psychological problem. As it turned out, he had been severely abused as a child.
Academically, he was okay. Not great, mind you. But okay. All of those major schools were afraid to bring him in due to his so-called "problem" attitude. But the coaches at his high school still believed in him. They thought that with the right kind of help that he could still make something out of himself.
In the process of trying to help Charles, the coaches called Dennis Raetz and said, 'Hey, we've got a kid here who can really play but has some issues. Would you guys be interested in talking to him?' Raetz said yeah, let's talk.
They did, Dennis met the player and his immediate family and decided to take a chance on him. When he arrived at ISU, he was quiet. Almost painfully shy. But Dennis took a special interest in him and worked with him. Had people on campus work with him. We worked with him in the sports information office.
After one really big game that he had, he was asked by Channel 2 to do a live interview from the football office. Charles didn't want to do it, but Dennis said that he had to. That he was representing the program. So Charles did it. And he did okay with it. But by the time the interview was over, Charles (who had been sitting on a couch in the football office) was almost in a fetal position. That's how shy and backwards he was.
Charles steadily improved throughout his years at ISU. He got a look by NFL teams. Ultimately, he decided to go ahead and use his teaching degree that he got at Indiana State.
He is now a very highly respected teacher and principal at a school just outside of Atlanta. He specializes in working with kids from troubled homes. And he's a great guy.
It's those kind of special cases when you take a kid with so-called problems or issues.
I am not against bringing in Division I transfers, juco transfers or even high school kids who have had a checkered past......that is, providing that those same kids want to have a second chance and are going to make the best of it.....and honestly try to stay out of trouble......
The best story that I can relate to that is former Sycamores wide receiver Charles Swann. He was an outstanding athlete from South Bend who was getting looks from schools such as Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State and Nebraska. But there was a huge question mark about him. He was about 6-3, 190 and could jump out of the gymnasium. And he could run. Lord, how could he run.
He rebelled against male authority figures. He was often sullen and would get into heated arguments with coaches and teachers. There was some thought as to whether he had some sort of psychological problem. As it turned out, he had been severely abused as a child.
Academically, he was okay. Not great, mind you. But okay. All of those major schools were afraid to bring him in due to his so-called "problem" attitude. But the coaches at his high school still believed in him. They thought that with the right kind of help that he could still make something out of himself.
In the process of trying to help Charles, the coaches called Dennis Raetz and said, 'Hey, we've got a kid here who can really play but has some issues. Would you guys be interested in talking to him?' Raetz said yeah, let's talk.
They did, Dennis met the player and his immediate family and decided to take a chance on him. When he arrived at ISU, he was quiet. Almost painfully shy. But Dennis took a special interest in him and worked with him. Had people on campus work with him. We worked with him in the sports information office.
After one really big game that he had, he was asked by Channel 2 to do a live interview from the football office. Charles didn't want to do it, but Dennis said that he had to. That he was representing the program. So Charles did it. And he did okay with it. But by the time the interview was over, Charles (who had been sitting on a couch in the football office) was almost in a fetal position. That's how shy and backwards he was.
Charles steadily improved throughout his years at ISU. He got a look by NFL teams. Ultimately, he decided to go ahead and use his teaching degree that he got at Indiana State.
He is now a very highly respected teacher and principal at a school just outside of Atlanta. He specializes in working with kids from troubled homes. And he's a great guy.
It's those kind of special cases when you take a kid with so-called problems or issues.
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As always, another great story by TJames; thanks for sharing it with us.
Part of the problem is how much of a kid's troubled past is for public knowledge...I say VERY LITTLE/NONE. So, you have to go w/ the AD and Coach's opinion.
There is also a vast difference between say a Charles Swann and a Jeff George -- but we all know this.
Again, thanks for sharing TJ
And it does work out sometimes and you hear great stories like that and it makes you want to give people a second chance. However might I remind you for as many good stories their are bad stories.
For example the Colts (who don't get guys like this) took a chance on Charlie Johnson who had a "checkered past" out of Penn State and he still had off the field issues when he got to Indy and has since been removed from the team twice. Their is a reason that these kids have had problems, if you want to be the one to take those problems on you have to accept the (understandable) scrutiny that comes with that.
The better questions is this: Should a program in the position that Indiana State is be taking chances on kids that could give the program more negative attention (i.e what happened last year). Why would you want to take a chance on kids like that given the current state of the program? Are you trying to loose what fan support you all have been able to muster? I mean I am amazed at the job they have done to get people behind the program - why do something that could hurt that image even more?
For example the Colts (who don't get guys like this) took a chance on Charlie Johnson who had a "checkered past" out of Penn State and he still had off the field issues when he got to Indy and has since been removed from the team twice. Their is a reason that these kids have had problems, if you want to be the one to take those problems on you have to accept the (understandable) scrutiny that comes with that.
The better questions is this: Should a program in the position that Indiana State is be taking chances on kids that could give the program more negative attention (i.e what happened last year). Why would you want to take a chance on kids like that given the current state of the program? Are you trying to loose what fan support you all have been able to muster? I mean I am amazed at the job they have done to get people behind the program - why do something that could hurt that image even more?