I honor your thought. The biggest problem with travel is sending all the other sports to these locations.
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Loyola-Chicago joining MVC this week (Oakland to Horizon League)
- Thread starter 4Q_iu
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I honor your thought. The biggest problem with travel is sending all the other sports to these locations.
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No offense to you, but if I'm Elgin, I tell you guys to STFU.
First, you guys are still the relative "noob" to the conference. He probably would cater to WSU and SIU the most. Second, you guys have made it very clear you'll jump and would like to at any given chance (just last Summer) so I honestly wouldn't work very hard to please you or your wants.
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If they MVC took a team from the OVC it would be from the OVC West Division not the East - Belmont might fit the picture but is located in Tenn. I don't see them as a viable option.
So you'd be looking at Murray State, Southeast Missorui, EIU, SIUE, UT Martin and Austin Peay.
Of these, Murray St probably had the best hoops team this year.
So you'd be looking at Murray State, Southeast Missorui, EIU, SIUE, UT Martin and Austin Peay.
Of these, Murray St probably had the best hoops team this year.
agrinut
The All-MVC Level
In my opinion that is why he will cater to us. He has to please the big markets, MSU even in a down year gets coverage. This morning Elgin sent a list of 16 schools to all university presidents. He made it clear football was not a consideration when making the list.
Well if TENN schools are out... don't include uT martin and/or Austin Peay...
of the 6 you list, I'd say ONLY Eastern Ill. of any OVC schools, I'm only interested in EIU or Belmont.
I still like Loyola for the access to the Chicago market. Would LOVE to see the #s of MVC alumni in Chicago.
I feel like I'm just recycling the same post, but we need to add 3 teams right now to get to 12 teams. Mid-major conferences are under attack right now and we need to be the aggressor and not just responsive. Picking who I think those three teams should be is kind of a pointless task, but why not add Belmont, Murray State, AND Denver. You can create and East/West divisions within the conference to take care of some travel concerns. Belmont and Murray State would be in the East with Denver taking what would have been Creighton's spot in the West.
Elgin has already screwed the pooch on this one. He's a year behind.
Elgin has already screwed the pooch on this one. He's a year behind.
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So you guys are no longer considering moving? If you guys have confirmed you're here for the long haul, then sure, I could see it. Otherwise, pound sand. I'd treat Evansville the same way -- any team that has publicly expressed interest in moving really. If we had, same treatment.
if we don't hear anything within the next week from the MVC presidents (and Elgin) regarding expansion I think people are going to be pretty unhappy. It's official now, so get the ball rolling MVC
Yeah, I agree. Conference realignment started well over 2 years ago and we've had multiple Valley teams flirt with leaving and now Creighton has. Honestly, he needs to hurry up and retire. It's never good to be reactive over being proactive.
I think A LOT of the conference re-alignment, is truly a lot of noise. I'm not a FAN of it but it's occuring.
At the end of the day; if you aren't currently a STRONG football school in the Pac-12, SEC, Big Ten (14*), Big 12 (10*), ACC or 'old Big East'
then you're essentially running in place.
There has long been and mostly likely always WILL BE a breakdown with the 340+ NCAA Div I schools. Some schools overlap some of the categories below; you have schools trying to move between those categories.
You have the:
* A. Hegemonic Football Powers in one of the 6 current conferences mentioned above
* B. Schools trying to become one of the Hegemony
* C. Schools in the rest of those conferences
* D. Schools with great MBB programs in one of the 6 current conferences mentioned above
* E. Schools trying to BUILD a Great MBB Program outside of those conferences
* F. Schools in the Mid-Major Conferences
* G. The rest of NCAA Div I members
Right now, I put us in Cat E.
At the end of the day; if you aren't currently a STRONG football school in the Pac-12, SEC, Big Ten (14*), Big 12 (10*), ACC or 'old Big East'
then you're essentially running in place.
There has long been and mostly likely always WILL BE a breakdown with the 340+ NCAA Div I schools. Some schools overlap some of the categories below; you have schools trying to move between those categories.
You have the:
* A. Hegemonic Football Powers in one of the 6 current conferences mentioned above
* B. Schools trying to become one of the Hegemony
* C. Schools in the rest of those conferences
* D. Schools with great MBB programs in one of the 6 current conferences mentioned above
* E. Schools trying to BUILD a Great MBB Program outside of those conferences
* F. Schools in the Mid-Major Conferences
* G. The rest of NCAA Div I members
Right now, I put us in Cat E.
agrinut
The All-MVC Level
I think the best way to describe it is we are Shopping our Football program but plan on leaving everything else in the league. Elgin makes no decision on adding teams. Furthermore aside from ISUb, DU, BU and SIU who hasn't expressed a desire to move? ISUr had interest but I'm guessing the scaling back of their stadium stops that talk. UNI would love to but their new president is known for scaling back athletics not bolstering them. WSU is on an island so I'm not sure they have options but I bet the would listen if anyone wanted to talk. If the valley wants to stabilize the league I think a private school is the only way to go. Personally I would love ORU as it is a 2 hour drive for MSU and WSU we already travel more than everyone else.
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Schools seemingly move conferences for three reasons: 1) money, 2) to be part of a more competitive landscape (or the opposite, I suppose) and/or 3) perceived lack of current conference stability. Creighton is leaving the MVC for money and nothing else. All of the others schools, most likely, won't have the same opportunity; however, they could very easily feel now is the time to leave because they cannot trust the stability of the MVC.
It's #3 that scares me the most. What has the MVC done to assure the nine remaining schools they are in a viable and thriving conference going forward without Creighton? I'm not expecting anyone to answer that question because we don't know, but I hope something has been done.
It's #3 that scares me the most. What has the MVC done to assure the nine remaining schools they are in a viable and thriving conference going forward without Creighton? I'm not expecting anyone to answer that question because we don't know, but I hope something has been done.
I would venture a wild guess that the problem with the MVC moving so slowly doesn't really rest on Doug Elgin's shoulders. I would bet it rests on the shoulders of the University presidents who just don't want to mess with a conference that they liked and required little effort on their part. Outside of the presidents of WSU, ILSU, INSU, and MSU, I don't get the feeling that the rest of them are all that interested in athletics as a part of the university's mission. Just my feeling, but if I am close to right, then that's where the bottleneck is, not Doug Elgin.
I actually like Elgin. He's done a lot of things to get our conference more exposure. Bracketbuster (his baby) in its original design was a good thing. The MVC-MWC challenge was a good thing. The RPI requirement was so good, the university AD's and presidents canned it because the coaches felt threatened by it. For a guy running a league without football to get his foot in the door, I think the guy has done pretty well. Plus, under his leadership, our conference tournament is undoubtedly one of the best in the nation.
Just my thoughts. But I sure hope they move sooner rather than later on adding schools. EIU has a lot of suitors out there...:smack: (just kidding...)
I actually like Elgin. He's done a lot of things to get our conference more exposure. Bracketbuster (his baby) in its original design was a good thing. The MVC-MWC challenge was a good thing. The RPI requirement was so good, the university AD's and presidents canned it because the coaches felt threatened by it. For a guy running a league without football to get his foot in the door, I think the guy has done pretty well. Plus, under his leadership, our conference tournament is undoubtedly one of the best in the nation.
Just my thoughts. But I sure hope they move sooner rather than later on adding schools. EIU has a lot of suitors out there...:smack: (just kidding...)
Saw this on twitter on Monday, but didn't read it until today. Interesting take on realignment in general, Butler in particular. He's more right than wrong, but I guess it is what it is...
Butler becoming a bandit school
Two consecutive seasons of making to the Final Four, losing to Duke in Indianapolis and nearly winning the game with a Hoosiers type half court shot at the buzzer, having one of the best young coaches in college basketball has cast Butler as this classic “little school that could” character in the yearly passion play known as the NCAA basketball tournament.
But beyond the mystique of Hinkle Field House, behind the nice Midwestern school image, another Butler exists, which could do well in the board rooms of Madison Ave or Wall Street, motivated by a bottom line, “we don’t care who we offend”‘ mentality.
Read more at http://ajerseyguy.com/
Butler becoming a bandit school
Two consecutive seasons of making to the Final Four, losing to Duke in Indianapolis and nearly winning the game with a Hoosiers type half court shot at the buzzer, having one of the best young coaches in college basketball has cast Butler as this classic “little school that could” character in the yearly passion play known as the NCAA basketball tournament.
But beyond the mystique of Hinkle Field House, behind the nice Midwestern school image, another Butler exists, which could do well in the board rooms of Madison Ave or Wall Street, motivated by a bottom line, “we don’t care who we offend”‘ mentality.
Read more at http://ajerseyguy.com/
Then he needs to put the squeeze on those resistant to change. Ultimately, he is still responsible.
I get what you're saying, and he's the guy responsible for setting the agenda. But, ultimately, his hands are tied if he can't get the presidents to move. Of course, if the relationship was that bad, he'd probably resign anyway. So you're probably closer to right than me...
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Good article; the IBJ had a good article on Butler Pres's ~1990 Plan to use MBB to build/grow the university brand...
the article is for subscribers only but here are some snippets.
The number has always stuck in Geoffrey Bannister’s head: 1,947. That was Butler University’s enrollment in 1989.
“We were running at a deficit budget and our enrollment was in decline,” said Bannister, 66, who served as Butler president from 1988 to 2000. “Butler had lost its edge.”
Bannister had an idea to get that edge back. Make the lowly men’s Bulldog basketball team a national power, and use it as a marketing tool to engage alumni, increase annual giving to the school, and recruit more and better students and instructors.
It seemed preposterous. After all, in 1990, Butler had put up losing records in 13 of its previous 16 seasons.
By now, everyone knows the plan launched by Bannister and carried forward by his successors Bobby Fong and James Danko has been a slam dunk.
The on-court successes—including amassing winning seasons 21 of the last 23 years—have been well-documented, but the basketball plan also has boosted enrollment and fundraising to levels not even Bannister could have imagined. The basketball blueprint resulted in a marketing plan—complete with help from Disney to design the logo and mascot—that has given the tiny university a brand approaching that of the goliaths of college athletics and academics.
Attendance for home games at Hinkle Fieldhouse has gone from about 3,000 in the late 1980s to about 7,900 per game for 16 home games this year. With more games and better opponents, total home attendance has tripled from the 1980s, to 126,386 this year.
That success has translated to growth for the university as a whole: Butler’s enrollment is now at 4,200. Fueled by runs to the NCAA Final Four in 2010 and 2011, admission applications have increased from 6,760 in 2010 to 9,682 in 2012.
While the school is nearing enrollment capacity, Butler officials said the increased applications have allowed it to improve its students’ overall academic qualifications.
Annual giving at Butler is also up. The school’s haul has doubled—hitting $13.2 million with 11 weeks left in the 2013 fiscal year—since Bannister rolled out his plan.
Giving to the school’s athletic department is even more impressive. From 2008 to 2012, giving more than doubled, to $1.45 million. The department expects to exceed $1.5 million this fiscal year, which ends May 31. Those increases don’t include the $13.3 million raised since June 2010 as part of the Hinkle Campaign to refurbish Hinkle Fieldhouse.
“It’s safe to say the increase in support we saw from 2008 to 2010 gave us the confidence to launch the Hinkle Campaign,” said Rachael Burt, Butler’s executive director of alumni and engagement programs
Wow. That's really impressive. I wish we could have a vision like that, and then actually implement it. Sounds like Butler wasn't in any better financial shape when they started this "program" than we are now. Aim high. I like it.
And for the record, I don't begrudge them the move to the Big East. I'd love for ISU to have that kind of conundrum...
Another thing to consider in regards to my desire to add a football school. Is the MVC missing a chance to seize a nicer media deal here? It's rumored that the Big East left over a BILLION on the table in their media rights deal in their quest to go to hoops only. If we moved closer to a unified conference, could we get a NATIONAL multi-sport media deal so our schools could be on TV more -- kinda like what the MAC has?
With Fox Sports set to make their run at ESPN, if the MVC/MVFC positioned itself as the premiere mid-major hoops and best FCS football conference, that could be something they would be interested in as I'd imagine they plan on securing conference media rights like ESPN has.
With Fox Sports set to make their run at ESPN, if the MVC/MVFC positioned itself as the premiere mid-major hoops and best FCS football conference, that could be something they would be interested in as I'd imagine they plan on securing conference media rights like ESPN has.
Interesting thought. But you'd have to avoid killing one sport for the other...that would be tough to do at the FCS level...but I actually kinda like your thinking here.