Loyola-Chicago joining MVC this week (Oakland to Horizon League)

[blueblazer]

Well now that the Chicago Tribune article has been posted, I think I can finally post about this (I had been asked to keep quiet until it was announced). It is 100% confirmed that Loyola will be added to the MVC. The players were told in a meeting around 3:30 Friday. They were also told that they (Loyola) would be the only school added to the MVC this year.

I am absolutely thrilled with this addition as my brother was a freshman on the team this year. But I know a lot of you aren't excited about it by most of the posts I've read, so I just want to try to debate some of the points I've seen:

Loyola finished 5-11 in a bad Horizon League: First, the Horizon League is not as crappy of a league as a lot of people seem to think. The league was 12th in RPI, which puts it in the Top 5 mid-major conferences and well ahead of the MAC and OVC. The MVC was just a couple of spots ahead in 9th. As for the record, 6 of Loyola's conference losses were on shots by the other team with under 5 seconds to play. The team could have easily finished 11-5 in the conference.

Loyola will be dead weight next year: The team was 15-16 this year, but again 7 of the losses were basically at the horn. They had an 8 game improvement over the previous season, which was Coach Moser's first. Moser cleaned house when he was hired, and now has all of 'his guys' in so the improvement should just continue. The team was the 6th youngest in the nation this year, and started 3 freshmen and 1 sophomore the last 10 games of the year. They will also be getting the services of Milton Doyle who sat out this year after transferring from Kansas. And it's not like they didn't win some pretty big games this year either - they won at conference champ Valpo, won at DePaul, demolished Mississippi State (granted, they were not good, but a BCS conference team).

UIC is a better addition than Loyola: Loyola's on-court product is just as good if not better than UIC. The teams split the season series this year. And I honestly feel Loyola has a much bigger future potential.

Loyola does nothing to bring up the conference: Loyola doesn't offer baseball at this time, but as bigsportsfan mentioned the Loyola President has said he will add baseball if the conference wants it. In addition, Loyola's other sports have been strong lately and the school currently has the lead in the conference's All-Sports Champion trophy race.

Loyola averaged just under 2300 fans a game last year and plays in a small gym: I'll give it to you that attendance has been an issue, but there are very few schools where that isn't the case. However, Loyola has a large alumni base and good sized student body, so there is potential there. The move to the MVC should only help by bringing in more marquee teams and some rivals that date back decades (Bradley, Evansville, etc.). In regards to the gym, it is a great venue that they just completely gutted and remodeled in 2011 (images here). Yes, it only seats 5,000, but to me I'd rather fill a 5,000 seat gym to capacity than have a 10,000+ gym only half full for most games.

Loyola is in the Chicago Market but that means nothing: Now I will give it to you that right now Loyola doesn't have a big foot in the Chicago market (barely a toe), but absolutely none of the teams up there do (including DePaul and Northwestern). It is definitely a professional sports market. That being said, that also means that there is potentially room for one of the Chicago teams to stake a claim to being 'the college team' and with Loyola's resources I think they're doing what they can to make that happen.

As Bluethunder pointed out in a post earlier tonight, ISU Athletics were in the same situation as Loyola not too long ago in regards to coming off a terrible administration that put no focus on athletics and nearly killed the athletic program. Therefore, I think it's too early to get on a school for being a drain and a terrible addition before you give them a chance.

I think most of you will end up being happy with the addition of Loyola over time.

I was hoping your brother would land at ISU, I think we missed the boat on him

 

[Patriot_Sycamore]

I was hoping your brother would land at ISU, I think we missed the boat on him

No thinking, we missed it for sure.

 

[BrokerZ]

You're probably right. They do have some nice positives, but they are going to hurt before they help. I'm really conflicted. But you make good points.

This pretty much sums it up for me. I can see some long-term positives out of this and I can also see some possible short-term negatives. No matter what, we weren't replacing Creighton with a Creighton. Now, color me unimpressed if this is all we do and get stuck on the "10 teams is a good number thing."

 

[BlueBleeder]

No thinking, we missed it for sure.

ABSOLUTELY! I was very upset when we didn't go after him. You can't let a guy with that kind of size and shooting ability get out from you own back yard. I guess there isn't anything we can do about it now...coulda woulda shoulda. Hopefully he doesn't light us up the next few years but I have a feeling he will at some point.

 

[Bluethunder]

I think Loyola will raise their attendance tremendously next year. They will probably sell out the Bradley, Southern Illinois, Illinois State games because those teams have many alums in Chicago and will come to see the game.

As I stated previously, this addition will be measured years from now, not today, but looking at it on paper and where Loyola could be in a few years, I can't argue with this addition. I will leave that for others :lol:

I just hope they bring at least a few hundred to Arch Madness!

 

[BlueSycamore]

I think Loyola will raise their attendance tremendously next year. They will probably sell out the Bradley, Southern Illinois, Illinois State games because those teams have many alums in Chicago and will come to see the game.

As I stated previously, this addition will be measured years from now, not today, but looking at it on paper and where Loyola could be in a few years, I can't argue with this addition. I will leave that for others :lol:

I just hope they bring at least a few hundred to Arch Madness!

No doubt several less than the thousands that normally came from Omaha, but more than 100 but less than 200 will outdraw the usual Sycamore contingent I believe?

 

[BlueSycamore]

This pretty much sums it up for me. I can see some long-term positives out of this and I can also see some possible short-term negatives. No matter what, we weren't replacing Creighton with a Creighton. Now, color me unimpressed if this is all we do and get stuck on the "10 teams is a good number thing."

So did anyone expect Louisville to jump back in the Valley ???????????????????????????????????????

 

[JamesHat]

Maybe we can sell them our 70's orange and yellow upper level seats for their arena, they would go with the color pallet they've decorated with.

 

[ISUCC]

it will be only Loyola-Chicago coming to MVC in 2013

 

[SycamoreFan317]

Well now that the Chicago Tribune article has been posted, I think I can finally post about this (I had been asked to keep quiet until it was announced). It is 100% confirmed that Loyola will be added to the MVC. The players were told in a meeting around 3:30 Friday. They were also told that they (Loyola) would be the only school added to the MVC this year.

I am absolutely thrilled with this addition as my brother was a freshman on the team this year. But I know a lot of you aren't excited about it by most of the posts I've read, so I just want to try to debate some of the points I've seen:

Loyola finished 5-11 in a bad Horizon League: First, the Horizon League is not as crappy of a league as a lot of people seem to think. The league was 12th in RPI, which puts it in the Top 5 mid-major conferences and well ahead of the MAC and OVC. The MVC was just a couple of spots ahead in 9th. As for the record, 6 of Loyola's conference losses were on shots by the other team with under 5 seconds to play. The team could have easily finished 11-5 in the conference.

Loyola will be dead weight next year: The team was 15-16 this year, but again 7 of the losses were basically at the horn. They had an 8 game improvement over the previous season, which was Coach Moser's first. Moser cleaned house when he was hired, and now has all of 'his guys' in so the improvement should just continue. The team was the 6th youngest in the nation this year, and started 3 freshmen and 1 sophomore the last 10 games of the year. They will also be getting the services of Milton Doyle who sat out this year after transferring from Kansas. And it's not like they didn't win some pretty big games this year either - they won at conference champ Valpo, won at DePaul, demolished Mississippi State (granted, they were not good, but a BCS conference team).

UIC is a better addition than Loyola: Loyola's on-court product is just as good if not better than UIC. The teams split the season series this year. And I honestly feel Loyola has a much bigger future potential.

Loyola does nothing to bring up the conference: Loyola doesn't offer baseball at this time, but as bigsportsfan mentioned the Loyola President has said he will add baseball if the conference wants it. In addition, Loyola's other sports have been strong lately and the school currently has the lead in the conference's All-Sports Champion trophy race.

Loyola averaged just under 2300 fans a game last year and plays in a small gym: I'll give it to you that attendance has been an issue, but there are very few schools where that isn't the case. However, Loyola has a large alumni base and good sized student body, so there is potential there. The move to the MVC should only help by bringing in more marquee teams and some rivals that date back decades (Bradley, Evansville, etc.). In regards to the gym, it is a great venue that they just completely gutted and remodeled in 2011 (images here). Yes, it only seats 5,000, but to me I'd rather fill a 5,000 seat gym to capacity than have a 10,000+ gym only half full for most games.

Loyola is in the Chicago Market but that means nothing: Now I will give it to you that right now Loyola doesn't have a big foot in the Chicago market (barely a toe), but absolutely none of the teams up there do (including DePaul and Northwestern). It is definitely a professional sports market. That being said, that also means that there is potentially room for one of the Chicago teams to stake a claim to being 'the college team' and with Loyola's resources I think they're doing what they can to make that happen.

As Bluethunder pointed out in a post earlier tonight, ISU Athletics were in the same situation as Loyola not too long ago in regards to coming off a terrible administration that put no focus on athletics and nearly killed the athletic program. Therefore, I think it's too early to get on a school for being a drain and a terrible addition before you give them a chance.

I think most of you will end up being happy with the addition of Loyola over time.

You didn't address the biggest reason in my book and that is the uneven playing field in MONEY! Check the early posts on this topic and I mentioned that Loyola was on their way back, on the court, then I did the research of finances and that is where I flipped to the other side. Loyola has more money available to them than Creighton, this is a monster in the making and we will get squashed like road kill. Our alumni, that give, do not have pockets deep enough to compete one to one add football to the mix and we are screwed. I say we need to send out the letters of inquiry to like schools and see if there is any interest of starting a new conference. Last of all, does anybody really think that WSU won't be gone at the first invite?

 

[ISUCC]

You didn't address the biggest reason in my book and that is the uneven playing field in MONEY! Check the early posts on this topic and I mentioned that Loyola was on their way back, on the court, then I did the research of finances and that is where I flipped to the other side. Loyola has more money available to them than Creighton, this is a monster in the making and we will get squashed like road kill. Our alumni, that give, do not have pockets deep enough to compete one to one add football to the mix and we are screwed. I say we need to send out the letters of inquiry to like schools and see if there is any interest of starting a new conference. Last of all, does anybody really think that WSU won't be gone at the first invite?

WSU has one shot, and one shot only, at leaving, that is to the MWC, and w/o football I just can not see it happening. Big 12, no, Pac 12, no, A-10, no, the MWC is their only option. If they're offered though, I agree, they're gone.

 

[Bally #50]

WSU has one shot, and one shot only, at leaving, that is to the MWC, and w/o football I just can not see it happening. Big 12, no, Pac 12, no, A-10, no, the MWC is their only option. If they're offered though, I agree, they're gone.

Your confidence is admirable but what says that the MWC is their ONLY option. Conference USA has non-football schools among others. I also would like to hear, why I have your attention, why you are so confident that Loyola is the only one the MVC is looking at? You must know something that most of us do not. Are you in favor of a 10-school conference and if so, what is your logic behind that, especially when you know that WSU could be leaving and at least a couple others have been rumored to want to jump ship?

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Your confidence is admirable but what says that the MWC is their ONLY option. Conference USA has non-football schools among others. I also would like to hear, why I have your attention, why you are so confident that Loyola is the only one the MVC is looking at? You must know something that most of us do not. Are you in favor of a 10-school conference and if so, what is your logic behind that, especially when you know that WSU could be leaving and at least a couple others have been rumored to want to jump ship?

Money and scheduling. Right now, the home and home scheduling setup is perfect IMO. If we went to 12 teams, we'd have to move to an unbalanced scheduling setup. Further, splitting what little the MVC gets between 2 more schools when those 2 schools are unlikely to earn for the conference may not make sense.

 

[Bally #50]

Money and scheduling. Right now, the home and home scheduling setup is perfect IMO. If we went to 12 teams, we'd have to move to an unbalanced scheduling setup. Further, splitting what little the MVC gets between 2 more schools when those 2 schools are unlikely to earn for the conference may not make sense.

It seems logical but getting caught with your pants down could have a lot more ramifications. I am amazed some of you are thinking that way to be honest. The Big 10 certainly didn't suffer with 12 (Pac 12 and Big 12 either -- note: I know they are bigger now) and were progressive enough to know that BIGGER is better. The trend is certainly heading that way to begin with and with two more talking about leaving, then what do you do with EIGHT? I just don't get your logic, especially because other BCS conferences made it work. It's called "roll with the punches"!

 

[Jason Svoboda]

It seems logical but getting caught with your pants down could have a lot more ramifications. I am amazed some of you are thinking that way to be honest. The Big 10 certainly didn't suffer with 12 (Pac 12 and Big 12 either -- note: I know they are bigger now) and were progressive enough to know that BIGGER is better. The trend is certainly heading that way to begin with and with two more talking about leaving, then what do you do with EIGHT? I just don't get your logic, especially because other BCS conferences made it work. It's called "roll with the punches"!

We're not a BCS conference and you can't compare the Big Ten and the MVC. They get $20m+ per school from the BTN and every new market they get into they negotiate to have their channel put into the basic cable tier. I believe our league media deal was $400k total with each school getting about $35k out of it.

I don't get the getting caught with your pants down line? Creighton left and we replaced them in just a little over a month, no? Additionally, on their campus visits, I'm sure the conference took notes so they know who they'd invite next if another school were to jump elsewhere. I'm sure they now have a rank and file for future membership.

Lastly, I don't think you or most of the Valley fans are placing enough though into the Ed O'Bannon lawsuit. If the NCAA loses, it's the smaller conferences that will lose big. We can't go splitting that already tiny pot. If you have a can of soup and have to split it between 10 people, you're still going to be hungry. If you suddenly have to split it between 12, you're going to be starving.

 

[Bally #50]

We're not a BCS conference and you can't compare the Big Ten and the MVC. They get $20m+ per school from the BTN and every new market they get into they negotiate to have their channel put into the basic cable tier. I believe our league media deal was $400k total with each school getting about $35k out of it.

We would NOT be expanding for the money, we would be expanding to survive. You guys are sounding like a bunch of old ladies here. It's time to get off our ass and think outside the box. How many conferences are sitting pat with TEN schools? Hardly any. I thought I'd like to stay at 10 originally and do nothing about all of this but it is OBVIOUS it is not going to work. Get more schools, divide into divisions and make it work like almost every other conference out there is doing NOW. Sitting on our tail is not going to work and I am amazed you guys all of a sudden clam up like a shy kid trying to find a prom date.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

We would NOT be expanding for the money, we would be expanding to survive. You guys are sounding like a bunch of old ladies here. It's time to get off our ass and think outside the box. How many conferences are sitting pat with TEN schools? Hardly any. I thought I'd like to stay at 10 originally and do nothing about all of this but it is OBVIOUS it is not going to work. Get more schools, divide into divisions and make it work like almost every other conference out there is doing NOW. Sitting on our tail is not going to work and I am amazed you guys all of a sudden clam up like a shy kid trying to find a prom date.

Pretty much every single conference that isn't a football-based conference? Unless I'm missing something, only the major BCS conferences are above 10 right now. Am I missing some?

As an aside, this is one of the reasons I was so interested in unifying the conference or even possibly starting a new conference with like minded institutions -- I'd prefer a conference where all teams had football. I think that is the most marketable option in the long run.

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Nevermind Bob, I see the ones you're talking about now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–13_NCAA_conference_realignment

That said, as I mentioned above, almost every single one of those conferences offer football. That seems to be the sticking point and possibly the limitation of the Valley. If the Valley takes additional teams, I'd hope they go after schools that have football programs and could also join the MVFC, or they should do what the OVC does and unify the conference and have a couple basketball schools that don't have football like Belmont, etc.

 

[IndyTreeFan]

Exactly what is the sticking point for unifying the MVC and the MVFC?

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Exactly what is the sticking point for unifying the MVC and the MVFC?

I'd imagine because the two are extremely different in membership base so it would make it impossible to get the required number of votes? From reading around the Valley boards, it took 7 votes to get Loyola in so you could easily see you couldn't reach quorum in voting.

Dual Members
Illinois State
Indiana State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
Southern Illinois

MVC-only Members
Bradley
Drake
Evansville
Loyola
Wichita State

MVFC-only Members
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Western Illinois
Youngstown State