Postseason Tournament

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SycamoreStateofMind said:
What does that even mean? I didn't just stop caring about the program? Just because we disagree you don't have to completely dismiss what we have to say and maybe just chalk it up to me being tore up about losing on Saturday.

I just said I was "out" on wanting us to participate and I will not be in attendance or watch. Because of the points I made above. Someone had to make the points... You all can't come up with a compelling argument as to why it makes sense. Just "go away" don't tell us what we need to hear. Okay got it! Never said I didn't care and you know it - I don't care about playing in the CBI that is what I don't care about. I care about the program immensely therefore still have an opinion.
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We've made the points over the years. If you didn't agree with them then, why would you agree with them now? But to rehash:

1) It starts and ends with the current guys. If they get an invite and want to play, you play. If they don't and are ready to shut it down, you do that.

Once you get past that:

2) You get extended practice and development time with your underclassmen. Considering we're so senior laden, continuing to let those guys work and get reps in with the system. There are multiple theories that support the stance that he who puts in the most work will be the most successful. Gladwell's 10,000 hours rule about becoming a professional at any discipline, for example. Otherwise, the coaches are about to be hands off instruction wise until next season's calendar kicks off.

3) Building off 2 -- Then having those guys play against live opponents where they can apply what they've learned and practice is important. Julian/Jabo/Robbie can use all the tournament experience they can get since they will be our big players next year. Pressure builds diamonds.

4) You have something to sell recruits. Since the Valley is a one-bid league due to how the tournament is ran by the P5s, being able to sell "we'll be playing the postseason in some capacity" ticks that box. Or we can just try the "Hey recruit, come to Indiana State where we guarantee your season is done after the conference tournament. You'll have plenty of time to watch March Madness from your dorm room" approach I suppose. Further...

5) Programs that have played in these "lesser" tournaments have often ended up in the NCAA tournament. There is a long documented history of those that have won or had long runs in ancillary tournaments have had sustained success. You can find tons of articles outlining this.

6) It gives the program more stickiness to the fan base. For some, this may be the only sport they follow or support. So to give them extra time to follow is a good thing. It can potentially lead to more financial support for the program.

7) Because.

Honestly #2/#3 are the keys for me. It's gravy for the upperclassmen but it's the development for the staff and underclassmen that I put the most value into.
 
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Personally, I'll watch my team whenever and wherever they play. I just love it. Plus, if you're trying to build a championship culture, I think it's good to take the guys and put them in as many one and done situations as possible. They learn what it takes to win championships. Not the NCAA championship, no. But it's the concept of win or go home and how you have to put out the effort every game to get the trophy. Plus, if you're a competitor, you should want that trophy. Whatever tournament it is.

But really, I just want to see this group again.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
We've made the points over the years. If you didn't agree with them then, why would you agree with them now? But to rehash:


4) You have something to sell recruits. Since the Valley is a one-bid league due to how the tournament is ran by the P5s, being able to sell "we'll be playing the postseason in some capacity" ticks that box. Or we can just try the "Hey recruit, come to Indiana State where we guarantee your season is done after the conference tournament. You'll have plenty of time to watch March Madness from your dorm room" approach I suppose. Further...
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Agree with ALL points provided, but focusing on #4. With the P5 conferences now getting 5,6,7,8,9 or more tournament invites, which is ridiculous IMHO, a 20+ win MVC team has little to no shot without winning Arch Madness. A CBI or NIT give recruits/transfers an additional reason to consider your program.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
We've made the points over the years. If you didn't agree with them then, why would you agree with them now? But to rehash:

1) It starts and ends with the current guys. If they get an invite and want to play, you play. If they don't and are ready to shut it down, you do that.

Once you get past that:

2) You get extended practice and development time with your underclassmen. Considering we're so senior laden, continuing to let those guys work and get reps in with the system. There are multiple theories that support the stance that he who puts in the most work will be the most successful. Gladwell's 10,000 hours rule about becoming a professional at any discipline, for example. Otherwise, the coaches are about to be hands off instruction wise until next season's calendar kicks off.

3) Building off 2 -- Then having those guys play against live opponents where they can apply what they've learned and practice is important. Julian/Jabo/Robbie can use all the tournament experience they can get since they will be our big players next year. Pressure builds diamonds.

4) You have something to sell recruits. Since the Valley is a one-bid league due to how the tournament is ran by the P5s, being able to sell "we'll be playing the postseason in some capacity" ticks that box. Or we can just try the "Hey recruit, come to Indiana State where we guarantee your season is done after the conference tournament. You'll have plenty of time to watch March Madness from your dorm room" approach I suppose. Further...

5) Programs that have played in these "lesser" tournaments have often ended up in the NCAA tournament. There is a long documented history of those that have won or had long runs in ancillary tournaments have had sustained success. You can find tons of articles outlining this.

6) It gives the program more stickiness to the fan base. For some, this may be the only sport they follow or support. So to give them extra time to follow is a good thing. It can potentially lead to more financial support for the program.

7) Because.

Honestly #2/#3 are the keys for me. It's gravy for the upperclassmen but it's the development for the staff and underclassmen that I put the most value into.
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Fair enough. But 7 isn't a point. You don't just get to add a 7th bullet point and use the word Because. You actually only have 6 points.

I woulda been king dick in track at Indiana State. I wasn't ever close to good enough to make the National Championship meet. But I would have been able to tell my friends - I'm running 400 hurdles in the post season. :ROFLMAO: What a joke.
 
Jason Svoboda said:
We've made the points over the years. If you didn't agree with them then, why would you agree with them now? But to rehash:

1) It starts and ends with the current guys. If they get an invite and want to play, you play. If they don't and are ready to shut it down, you do that.

Once you get past that:

2) You get extended practice and development time with your underclassmen. Considering we're so senior laden, continuing to let those guys work and get reps in with the system. There are multiple theories that support the stance that he who puts in the most work will be the most successful. Gladwell's 10,000 hours rule about becoming a professional at any discipline, for example. Otherwise, the coaches are about to be hands off instruction wise until next season's calendar kicks off.

3) Building off 2 -- Then having those guys play against live opponents where they can apply what they've learned and practice is important. Julian/Jabo/Robbie can use all the tournament experience they can get since they will be our big players next year. Pressure builds diamonds.

4) You have something to sell recruits. Since the Valley is a one-bid league due to how the tournament is ran by the P5s, being able to sell "we'll be playing the postseason in some capacity" ticks that box. Or we can just try the "Hey recruit, come to Indiana State where we guarantee your season is done after the conference tournament. You'll have plenty of time to watch March Madness from your dorm room" approach I suppose. Further...

5) Programs that have played in these "lesser" tournaments have often ended up in the NCAA tournament. There is a long documented history of those that have won or had long runs in ancillary tournaments have had sustained success. You can find tons of articles outlining this.

6) It gives the program more stickiness to the fan base. For some, this may be the only sport they follow or support. So to give them extra time to follow is a good thing. It can potentially lead to more financial support for the program.

7) Because.

Honestly #2/#3 are the keys for me. It's gravy for the upperclassmen but it's the development for the staff and underclassmen that I put the most value into.
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I just really really enjoy watching this team and I'm not ready for it to end. I haven't felt this way about a team in a decade.
 

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SycamoreStateofMind said:
Fair enough. But 7 isn't a point. You don't just get to add a 7th bullet point and use the word Because. You actually only have 6 points.

I woulda been king dick in track at Indiana State. I wasn't ever close to good enough to make the National Championship meet. But I would have been able to tell my friends - I'm running 400 hurdles in the post season. :ROFLMAO: What a joke.
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#7 was going to be a meme/movie quote but I bailed because I didn't want others thinking I was being serious in responding to you.
 

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This is the one that popped into my head:

dave-chappelle-why-treat-customers-this-way.gif
 
bluestreak said:
Still trying to figure out this discussion, but I'm enjoying it nevertheless.
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I’ll summarize… Jason and the majority of others on here and ultimately the only person/people (JS/Players) that matter in making this decisions about CBI or not think we should play in the post season. Most of the members here that believe that have never wavered on this - they always think we should play in the post season.

I think if you’re not in the Big Dance or the NIT then go lick your wounds and be better. You had what 32 or some odds games to figure it out? It didn’t work out. That’s sports and that finality is what makes is amazing and agonizing at the same time.

But the real reason is you’ve got Cooper, Voss, Henry, McKnight and Gibson they play a massive amount of minutes. The “development & experience” argument given how old this team is and how many minutes those guys play is a really hard sell for me. As is a broke school just shelling out $27k. As is risking Robbie’s health - he looked pretty banged up in STL and really seemed to be at the end of his rope. That first D1 season as a true freshman can be pretty grueling.

Other than that we were all just having a little fun with one-another. It’s not personally - never supposed to be. We just disagree and it’s a disagreement we’ve been discussing on here every 10 years when we are decent enough to have anything to discuss.
 
SycamoreBlue3209 said:
I would much rather have postseason possibilities conversations than the years where it wasn't even an option...
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I think we can all agree on that!

It always feels like the opposition side of this argument is somewhat associated with some sort of dissatisfaction with this team or the coaches or the way the season played out… I don’t think that really has anything to do with it. Speaking for myself anyway.
 

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SycamoreStateofMind said:
I’ll summarize… Jason and the majority of others on here and ultimately the only person/people (JS/Players) that matter in making this decisions about CBI or not think we should play in the post season. Most of the members here that believe that have never wavered on this - they always think we should play in the post season.

I think if you’re not in the Big Dance or the NIT then go lick your wounds and be better. You had what 32 or some odds games to figure it out? It didn’t work out. That’s sports and that finality is what makes is amazing and agonizing at the same time.

But the real reason is you’ve got Cooper, Voss, Henry, McKnight and Gibson they play a massive amount of minutes. The “development & experience” argument given how old this team is and how many minutes those guys play is a really hard sell for me. As is a broke school just shelling out $27k. As is risking Robbie’s health - he looked pretty banged up in STL and really seemed to be at the end of his rope. That first D1 season as a true freshman can be pretty grueling.

Other than that we were all just having a little fun with one-another. It’s not personally - never supposed to be. We just disagree and it’s a disagreement we’ve been discussing on here every 10 years when we are decent enough to have anything to discuss.
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Pretty much sums up my feelings to a T.. We'd just be playing a bunch of outgoing guys and a banged up robbie. I'm not paying 30k to do that..if it's free? Sure, why not..
 
I look at it similar to a bowl game in college football.

Most are not relevant to the national championship and do not contain any level of gravitas about them. But many are in nice weather or a big city with lots to do. And if the players want to go and play and also soak up some rays and have a little fun in the sun in Florida this time of year, hey they earned it.

Ultimately, just like a smaller bowl game in football, if the players want to play then go play. If not, then don’t. I can respect either decision.
 
I’m supporting whatever the team decides. If they want to continue great. If they don’t want to that’s fine too. Doesn’t affect me one way or another other showing my support regardless.
 
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