State Budget Committee OKs funding for Hulman Center project

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Disgraceful way to go out Dan... Not good. Blame everyone else for not getting the job done and say good riddance in the process. Nicely played.
 

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Haven't contacted anybody I know in city government about this..but if approved by the state I'm wondering if the county/city/or fundraising efforts by isu could kick in a few mil or whatever to get it around 40-45 million (could argue city still benefits from renovated HC). That would still be worth doing imo... You would only be talking about renovating the existing structure and that would shed millions in construction costs. It would still be free money from the state and beats the hell out of doing it alone.... HOWEVER, the big elephant in the room is will the state approve it and if Bradley knows they won't then as SSOM said this is a bullshit/cop out move...way above my pay grade at this point..just first reaction to it.
 
Haven't contacted anybody I know in city government about this..but if approved by the state I'm wondering if the county/city/or fundraising efforts by isu could kick in a few mil or whatever to get it around 40-45 million (could argue city still benefits from renovated HC). That would still be worth doing imo... You would only be talking about renovating the existing structure and that would shed millions in construction costs. It would still be free money from the state and beats the hell out of doing it alone.... HOWEVER, the big elephant in the room is will the state approve it and if Bradley knows they won't then as SSOM said this is a bullshit/cop out move...way above my pay grade at this point..just first reaction to it.

The thing about it is - this has ramifications outside of just the Hulman Center and convention center. Bradley will not be residing in Terre Haute after he leaves - I'm sure he wishes us nothing but the bust but sure he could care less if the convention center gets done or not. He washed his hands of it - that is what happened.

What he fails to realize (I'm sure he realized it but didn't care) in doing so he just created a divide between the Terre Haute Convention & Visitors Bureau (aka Greg Gibson & Dave Patterson). Why is that important in the grand scheme of things? For 1 Greg Gibson has more money and clout than anyone in this city and it aint even close. For two those guys have both done a lot for Indiana State - I could name several but for starters the LaVern Gibson Cross Country Course wouldn't exist without them (throw in John McNichols obviously).

You want to go down that road by placing this at the feet of the city? The county? The THCVB? Be my guest - but when things go wrong maybe you should look in the mirror. The city/county can only raise taxes so much. The THCVB can only raise hotel/food/beverage tax so much. This is an Indiana State alumni/donor/foundation etc. etc. etc. problem and until you fix it we will continue to have shit facilities. You had the chance to create something beautiful for the University and downtown Terre Haute to be proud of and you shit the bed. All because they couldn't reach out a single donor (or multiple for that matter) or business for naming rights?? You've got to be kidding me.

Anything short of what was proposed is a failure in my mind. I rest.
 
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The thing about it is - this has ramifications outside of just the Hulman Center and convention center. Bradley will not be residing in Terre Haute after he leaves - I'm sure he wishes us nothing but the bust but sure he could care less if the convention center gets done or not. He washed his hands of it - that is what happened.

What he fails to realize in doing so he just created a divide between the Terre Haute Convention & Visitors Bureau (aka Greg Gibson & Dave Patterson). Why is that important in the grand scheme of things? For 1 Greg Gibson has more money and clout than anyone in this city and it aint even close. For two those guys have both done a lot for Indiana State - I could name several but for starters the LaVern Gibson Cross Country Course wouldn't exist without them (throw in John McNichols obviously).

You want to go down that road by placing this at the feet of the city? The county? The THCVB? Be my guest - but when things go wrong maybe you should look in the mirror. The city/county can only raise taxes so much. The THCVB can only raise hotel/food/beverage tax so much. This is an Indiana State alumni/donor/foundation etc. etc. etc. problem and until you fix it we will continue to have shit facilities. You had the chance to create something beautiful for the University and downtown Terre Haute to be proud of and you shit the bed. All because they couldn't reach out a single donor or business for naming rights?? You've got to be kidding me.

Anything short of what was proposed is a failure in my mind. I rest.

Really agree with the Gibson angle.. not a dude you want to piss off...Like I said, first reaction as I was making dinner and didn't think that in depth about it lol.....

I think blame should be at the feet of ISU for not doing any kind of fundraising or exploring avenues of revenue to close the gap....that said, if the options are: this thing goes away period or try and get the state to fund the HC only and raise a few mil on the side??...then I'd take option 2 there...

The city has made their financial bed and did not give ISU a ton of revenue to work with...I just wish Bradley and company would of seen this project as an opportunity too good to pass up on for INDIANA STATE and made it happen regardless of the cities shortcomings. Long term ISU will pay far more than the city if nothing gets done.
 
Really agree with the Gibson angle.. not a dude you want to piss off...Like I said, first reaction as I was making dinner and didn't think that in depth about it lol.....

I think blame should be at the feet of ISU for not doing any kind of fundraising or exploring avenues of revenue to close the gap....that said, if the options are: this thing goes away period or try and get the state to fund the HC only and raise a few mil on the side??...then I'd take option 2 there...

The city has made their financial bed and did not give ISU a ton of revenue to work with...I just wish Bradley and company would of seen this project as an opportunity too good to pass up on for INDIANA STATE and made it happen regardless of the cities shortcomings. Long term ISU will pay far more than the city if nothing gets done.

I know this doesn't apply to you at all but I'd say option 2 is great if your just a fan of Indiana State Basketball - then who gives a shit about the vitality of downtown Terre Haute.

This isn't an option 1 or option 2 scenario for me. It's called find a way to meet your original commitment and take advantage to state funding on the table and better our city for years to come. I'm not interested in scenario #2 because I'm a Terre Haute guy and I care about he city just as much or more than I care about Indiana State or that dumb ass Hulman Center.

Not getting it done is unacceptable. It's irresponsible to send out plans and gets peoples hopes up and then end this way. A couple Todd Golden tweets, a news article and a new President later and it's all done. Aint that the just the way shit goes.

Not good. Not good at all.
 
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I know this doesn't apply to you at all but I'd say option 2 is great if your just a fan of Indiana State Basketball - then who gives a shit about the vitality of downtown Terre Haute.

This isn't an option 1 or option 2 scenario for me. It's called find a way to meet your original commitment and take advantage to state funding on the table and better our city for years to come. I'm not interested in scenario #2 because I'm a Terre Haute guy and I care about he city just as much or more than I care about Indiana State or that dumb ass Hulman Center.

Not getting it done is unacceptable. It's irresponsible to send out plans and gets peoples hopes up and then end this way. A couple Todd Golden tweets, a news article and a new President later and it's all done. Aint that the just the way shit goes.

Not good. Not good at all.

Can't argue with that at all from a citizens perspective. I Want to see it done as much as anyone. But this city has mismanaged funds for years now and with the jail/high schools/police station projects I understand the few level headed people in local government being hesitant to go all in on this thing just to make it happen .. You better believe one way or another a new jail is coming (whether we draw up plans to or the state does it for us if we don't comply), these high schools are in horrible shape and can't last another decade, and we all know the pull police have in this town....With our current deficit I do get the city saying to ISU "you need to bridge the 13 million dollar gap"...which obviously Bradley and company wouldn't try to do...

City screwed up years ago getting us in this hole to where they can't help out and ISU is screwing up now by potentially letting this state money go and risk trying to upkeep this archaic building that will require millions in maintenance a year....just a fucked up situation all around
 

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Can't argue with that at all from a citizens perspective. I Want to see it done as much as anyone. But this city has mismanaged funds for years now and with the jail/high schools/police station projects I understand the few level headed people in local government being hesitant to go all in on this thing just to make it happen .. You better believe one way or another a new jail is coming (whether we draw up plans to or the state does it for us if we don't comply), these high schools are in horrible shape and can't last another decade, and we all know the pull police have in this town....With our current deficit I do get the city saying to ISU "you need to bridge the 13 million dollar gap"...which obviously Bradley and company wouldn't try to do...

City screwed up years ago getting us in this hole to where they can't help out and ISU is screwing up now by potentially letting this state money go and risk trying to upkeep this archaic building that will require millions in maintenance a year....just a fucked up situation all around

Your last sentence said it all...

Agree with everything you said. My frustration is laying this at the feet of just the city or anyone else. Everyone is to blame including Dan Bradley and Indiana State - they just don't get a free pass. In my opinion they had more responsibility than anyone to make this happen. Perhaps because I believe they have more avenues to the funding than the other parties who are strapped for the reasons you named.
 
I'd like to say a couple of things. One, it was noted today in the press here and elsewhere, that a state audit of Terre Haute's finances were basically insolvent and that there basically was a “substantial doubt” about the city of Terre Haute’s “ability to continue as a going concern.” Bottom line, you are blaming Dr. Bradley and the University for going their own way? When I read this in the morning, I told myself that it won't take long for the shit to hit the fan with ISU. It didn't. What else would they do? Seriously. It's called jump off the fricking ship before it SINKS!

So they decided to go on their own and get this financed the way THEY wanted it to be, get some more funds without taxation, and take the 37.5mil the state has allocated and GET IT DONE. It is not ISU's fault that the THCVB couldn't do jack shit to get this venture moving. It is not ISU's fault, that no usable tax on the project was implemented, and in my opinion, Terre Haute flushed the project down the toilet, period, and their faces should be red as blood. No, it will not have Terre Haute's name on the building and ISU will once again, take control (hopefully), they'll find an alumni to get naming rights (they have been close to that), and let the university put their mark on a building that should have a lot of life in it and call it their own.

I'd say, if you don't like Bradley, you can blame him all you want, but the mayor of TH and the head of the THCVB should be both FIRED. Let the new president get it done the way we'd like and let Dr. B. retire with the grace he should be able to do. I'd say some of you should point your fingers a different direction.
 
I'd like to say a couple of things. One, it was noted today in the press here and elsewhere, that a state audit of Terre Haute's finances were basically insolvent and that there basically was a “substantial doubt” about the city of Terre Haute’s “ability to continue as a going concern.” Bottom line, you are blaming Dr. Bradley and the University for going their own way? When I read this in the morning, I told myself that it won't take long for the shit to hit the fan with ISU. It didn't. What else would they do? Seriously. It's called jump off the fricking ship before it SINKS!

So they decided to go on their own and get this financed the way THEY wanted it to be, get some more funds without taxation, and take the 37.5mil the state has allocated and GET IT DONE. It is not ISU's fault that the THCVB couldn't do jack shit to get this venture moving. It is not ISU's fault, that no usable tax on the project was implemented, and in my opinion, Terre Haute flushed the project down the toilet, period, and their faces should be red as blood. No, it will not have Terre Haute's name on the building and ISU will once again, take control (hopefully), they'll find an alumni to get naming rights (they have been close to that), and let the university put their mark on a building that should have a lot of life in it and call it their own.

I'd say, if you don't like Bradley, you can blame him all you want, but the mayor of TH and the head of the THCVB should be both FIRED. Let the new president get it done the way we'd like and let Dr. B. retire with the grace he should be able to do. I'd say some of you should point your fingers a different direction.

You're most certainly biting off more than you can chew with this.

Let me start with this. I think Dan Bradley is the best thing to ever happen to Indiana State. I think what he's done from a business standpoint for this University is exceptional. I think he was very involved in the community and cares deeply about Indiana State. From an academic standpoint I think he was solid - but probably not the greatest. Athletics were not a majority priority for him in my estimation. All that said, he leaves us in a better place than when he got here and that is all you can ask. So don't put words in my mouth about blaming Bradley (ISU) - I said the blame is to be shared and shouldn't be put on any one party involved.

Terre Haute is in bad finaicnal shape - no doubt. Can't argue and have no intention on arguing that point.

In closing you or anyone else can believe this is not an ISU problem all you want. The fact of the matter is Indiana State University had the ability to not only upgrade the facility, but build a convention center onto the facility - they released the plans and still didn't have any alumni/donor dollars to get the project done. If you can't read between the lines I will spell it out for you wanting to point the finger at whomever - alumni and people don't give a shit about Indiana State Athletics, I hate to be the one to have to deliver that message to you because I'm sure you don't want to hear it. This project would have got done at places where they have alumni that care. That is an Indiana State problem - spin it however you want in your own mind.
 
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In closing you or anyone else can believe this is not an ISU problem all you want. The fact of the matter is Indiana State University had the ability to not only upgrade the facility, but build a convention center onto the facility - they released the plans and still didn't have any alumni/donor dollars to get the project done. If you can't read between the lines I will spell it out for you wanting to point the finger at whomever - alumni and people don't give a shit about Indiana State Athletics, I hate to be the one to have to deliver that message to you because I'm sure you don't want to hear it. This project would have got done at places where they have alumni that care. That is an Indiana State problem - spin it however you want in your own mind.
Totally agree and I fully believe it's only getting worse. With year-over-year declining student attendance, you're graduating less and less alumni with any sort of emotional connection to athletics.
 
Your last sentence said it all...

Agree with everything you said. My frustration is laying this at the feet of just the city or anyone else. Everyone is to blame including Dan Bradley and Indiana State - they just don't get a free pass. In my opinion they had more responsibility than anyone to make this happen. Perhaps because I believe they have more avenues to the funding than the other parties who are strapped for the reasons you named.

Totally agree with this, too. I actually put a large portion of the blame on State. They've had over 30 months now to secure donations or structure funding to bridge the funding gap. I'd like to see what actually had been done on their end.

To the other end, I'm glad they're at least going after the State to get the $37.5m for renovations. They could have completely walked away and that would have been even more disastrous.
 
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It was my understanding that the bulk of the Terre Haute Hulman/Convention center was a joint venture and the city was responsible for the lion's share of the remaining money, not a 50-50 prop by any means. If I am wrong, I will be glad to own up to it. 37.5mil was allocated to Indiana State University by the legislature and NOT Terre Haute and the finance end was to be made by business partners and a city tax of some sort.

SSOM, I was not questioning your loyalty to Dr. B. but I am questioning some of the nay-sayers that are all over him suddenly as he leaves. Some seem to never miss an opportunity to jump down his throat on this issue. The lack of movement on this IMO, is because of Terre Haute's inability to finance ANYTHING, let along a risky Convo Center. You likely were aware that there was a $7mil deal on the table at one time to finance maintenance and naming rights for HC. It fell thru but it doesn't mean that it can't be reincarnated by this individual or another when the time is right. It only takes one or two like that to make ISU look like a genius and put THEIR name on the building as well. If I bit off more than I can chew, I'll acknowledge it but I think Plan B, as you called it SSOM, is not only a good idea, it will get it done in due time. I am really sad that our fan base is so bad that you and Boda say the things you do. Jason, why continue if our fan base is so worthless? (I hope you don't). The athletes I am talking to don't feel that way and most of the alumni not in sports, say the same thing. I agree though that fund raising is pretty much a joke.
 
I am really sad that our fan base is so bad that you and Boda say the things you do. Jason, why continue if our fan base is so worthless? (I hope you don't). The athletes I am talking to don't feel that way and most of the alumni not in sports, say the same thing. I agree though that fund raising is pretty much a joke.

I don't give a rip what people say -- talk is cheap. Donations and attendance speak volumes. If you don't think those are key indicators of a fan base, I'm not sure we're going to be able to agree on the topic.
 
Totally agree with this, too. I actually put a large portion of the blame on State. They've had over 30 months now to secure donations or structure funding to bridge the funding gap. I'd like to see what actually had been done on their end.

To the other end, I'm glad they're at least going after the State to get the $37.5m for renovations. They could have completely walked away and that would have been even more disastrous.


I'm not sure this will happen. Some how I can't shake the feeling that things will get worse.
 
I don't give a rip what people say -- talk is cheap. Donations and attendance speak volumes. If you don't think those are key indicators of a fan base, I'm not sure we're going to be able to agree on the topic.

Half full, half empty. I am not ready to throw in the towel men, and I think a lot of alums out there aren't either. You always get a fund raising burst when a new president comes in, you get a boost when MANY things are in better than average shape on campus and they are, and if by some stroke of luck football and basketball take a leap forward, then we are really in the plus. We don't need to raise half of the 37.5mil as I understand it, it is like building a new classroom. I'll buy you two a beer or three next time we cross paths at the Bally and we'll talk some more. Who knows, maybe that $45mil GIBSON Center will open before I miss my next homecoming. Soon to be Bally #50.
 
Maybe the 37.5 million will help get handicap restrooms for the Varsity Club members. Oh ...and it is the older fans ( say 70+) who may be more financially able to donate larger sums ... and so I stroll over to the foundations to make another $500 donation and get a handicap parking space near the door only to find out there is no button to push to open the doors so I can wheel my rolator in .. . I added the $500 as that was the amount needed to be a guest coach for women's basketball last year ... need I ever say I was never contacted about being a guest coach after that .... constructive criticism or being a curmudgeon ... and a naysayer .... or am I just being taught a lesson ... and for Pacers games they roll my wife and I in wheelchairs basically from the door to our seats ... just a different way of doing things I guess ...and you do need a solid fan base ... boy can you believe Katy Texas built a 72 million high school football stadium.
 

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A couple other thoughts on this topic before it dies completely. This thread should serve as proof just how dire circumstances we are in. Look at the amount of people that have cared enough to even comment? Maybe everything has been said - my guess is it hasn't. You probably got a good majority of people reading this thread that no more than I do about the situation. I don't even care what side you fall on - people don't care enough to even post an opinion on an opinion forum.

South brought up several issues facing the city and country that can't be ignored in the grand scheme of things.

1. The city finances alone were probably enough to put this thing belly up.

2. The county jail situation has been the most mismanaged mess you've ever seen. You got a lot of people with different agendas and only a few people with the agenda of the tax payers they serve.

3. The VCSC has a real issue in figuring out what to do with the high schools. I personally think you combine the two and have one big high school. Get rid of the north/south and have one Terre Haute High School and then leave West Vigo alone - remodel that facility. Whatever they decide to do - this is something that is going to take resources as well.

So I get that the above no doubt played a factor in this not getting done the right way. But it's also been typical for this Administration. Release plans of how something is going to get done and never live up to those expectations. When it comes to athletic facilities it's always a phased out deal or a plan B. We never throw plan A out to the public and end up following through with that plan.
 
Even with those pressing needs the city, county and THCVB had committed to a figure north of $20 million toward this project leaving somewhere in the neighborhood of a $10 to $20 million dollar deficit. I heard nothing of an athletic campaign, an attempt at naming rights, reaching out to donors etc. etc. Just that the city and county have too many other needs and shame on them. BS! Read that article today and read the quotes from individuals involved. If you don't think ISU holds blame in this then your kidding yourself.
 
Maybe the 37.5 million will help get handicap restrooms for the Varsity Club members. Oh ...and it is the older fans ( say 70+) who may be more financially able to donate larger sums ... and so I stroll over to the foundations to make another $500 donation and get a handicap parking space near the door only to find out there is no button to push to open the doors so I can wheel my rolator in .. . I added the $500 as that was the amount needed to be a guest coach for women's basketball last year ... need I ever say I was never contacted about being a guest coach after that .... constructive criticism or being a curmudgeon ... and a naysayer .... or am I just being taught a lesson ... and for Pacers games they roll my wife and I in wheelchairs basically from the door to our seats ... just a different way of doing things I guess ...and you do need a solid fan base ... boy can you believe Katy Texas built a 72 million high school football stadium.
Totally unacceptable. Did you raise your concern to the SAF? I assume that is who you gave the money to, no?
 
3. The VCSC has a real issue in figuring out what to do with the high schools. I personally think you combine the two and have one big high school. Get rid of the north/south and have one Terre Haute High School and then leave West Vigo alone - remodel that facility. Whatever they decide to do - this is something that is going to take resources as well.
So what exactly is the issue with the high schools? I keep seeing petitions on social media to get Tanoos out but I'm too far removed to know what is actually going on? Is it just operational costs of having two schools?

I'd imagine if you were to merge into one mega school, you'd probably need to build a new facility somewhere in between. Is there any central land available that could serve that purpose? I imagine the far outliers would probably have a significant commute so would bus transportation eat up any saved costs? This also sounds like another issue with those property tax caps. We voted here in Fishers last year to raise our property taxes to go to the schools. Even though my second spawn is almost done, we still voted yes on the measure.
 
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