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Jason Svoboda

The Bird Level
Administrator
I don't like seeing them travel before they shoot. They are not in the NBA.

The NCAA changed the travel rules in 2019 after the zero/gather step (James Harden) became a big weapon. It's not as wide open as the NBA but they still have quite a bit of leeway. In both occurrences I saw in the video, it's legal. What you're seeing in the video, IMO, is 4.a.3 which I highlighted from the updated 2019 travel rules:

4. A player who catches the ball while moving or ends a dribble may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:

a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be the pivot foot;
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both, in which case neither foot can be the pivot foot.

b. When one foot is on the playing court:
1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a step;
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both, in which case neither foot can then be the pivot foot.

5. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:

a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. The pivot foot shall not be lifted before the ball is released to start a dribble.

6. After coming to a stop when neither foot can be the pivot foot:

a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. Neither foot shall be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

7. It is traveling when a player falls to the playing court while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot.

This was really evident with Cooper's jumper at the end of the video. The one I did see (and will be called) is Key sliding coming to a stop. I feel like we see that quite a bit every year where he can't quite stop his momentum on driving and coming to a sudden stop.
 

4Q_iu

The Nicks Level
Supporter
The NCAA changed the travel rules in 2019 after the zero/gather step (James Harden) became a big weapon. It's not as wide open as the NBA but they still have quite a bit of leeway. In both occurrences I saw in the video, it's legal. What you're seeing in the video, IMO, is 4.a.3 which I highlighted from the updated 2019 travel rules:

4. A player who catches the ball while moving or ends a dribble may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:

a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be the pivot foot;
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both, in which case neither foot can be the pivot foot.

b. When one foot is on the playing court:
1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a step;
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both, in which case neither foot can then be the pivot foot.

5. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:

a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. The pivot foot shall not be lifted before the ball is released to start a dribble.

6. After coming to a stop when neither foot can be the pivot foot:

a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. Neither foot shall be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

7. It is traveling when a player falls to the playing court while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot.

This was really evident with Cooper's jumper at the end of the video. The one I did see (and will be called) is Key sliding coming to a stop. I feel like we see that quite a bit every year where he can't quite stop his momentum on driving and coming to a sudden stop.

And to think when I started to read this post, I naturally believed there was a new ruling on how much of a team's travel costs would be covered by the NCAA vice the institution... buses over planes, trains and/or automobiles

at the end of the day, a HELLUVA lot of writing on behalf of the NCAA to codify travelling after years of the officials NOT calling travelling
 

sycamorebacker

The Menser Level
Supporter
Ha. I suppose.

You can disagree with someone quite regularly without ever saying or thinking they are an idiot. I don’t think you’re an idiot - I can recall Cooper using that move last year and I believe he might have been called for travel. Just because it’s called a travel doesn’t always make it a travel. It’s a judgement call and in real time what looks like a travel isn’t always a travel. That’s the only point I’m trying to make.
Agree. I'm just saying don't give the ref that option. It could be an important shot. It's like throwing balls and strikes. You throw what you think blue will call a strike. When it's 3-0, throw a definite strike.
 

sycamorebacker

The Menser Level
Supporter
The NCAA changed the travel rules in 2019 after the zero/gather step (James Harden) became a big weapon. It's not as wide open as the NBA but they still have quite a bit of leeway. In both occurrences I saw in the video, it's legal. What you're seeing in the video, IMO, is 4.a.3 which I highlighted from the updated 2019 travel rules:

4. A player who catches the ball while moving or ends a dribble may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:

a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be the pivot foot;
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both, in which case neither foot can be the pivot foot.

b. When one foot is on the playing court:
1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a step;
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both, in which case neither foot can then be the pivot foot.

5. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:

a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. The pivot foot shall not be lifted before the ball is released to start a dribble.

6. After coming to a stop when neither foot can be the pivot foot:

a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. Neither foot shall be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

7. It is traveling when a player falls to the playing court while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot.

This was really evident with Cooper's jumper at the end of the video. The one I did see (and will be called) is Key sliding coming to a stop. I feel like we see that quite a bit every year where he can't quite stop his momentum on driving and coming to a sudden stop.
That doesn't sound like a new rule to me. Isn't that a jump-stop? I guess we'll see how they call it.
 

Jason Svoboda

The Bird Level
Administrator
That doesn't sound like a new rule to me. Isn't that a jump-stop? I guess we'll see how they call it.

No, this is off the dribble where they gather/zero step and then step back like Cooper did in the video. This video is the NBA where there is a little more liberty but Harden starting this back in like 2015-2016 when he became an offensive juggernaut is why the NCAA changed the rules. I first remember them starting to send it before the rules committee in 2016-2017 and then it finally changed after 2018 as there were quite a few players in the NCAA tournament using it and coaches were up in arms. There was one kid, at either Kansas/K-State that had it nailed and was getting massive separation from people.

 

4Q_iu

The Nicks Level
Supporter
No, this is off the dribble where they gather/zero step and then step back like Cooper did in the video. This video is the NBA where there is a little more liberty but Harden starting this back in like 2015-2016 when he became an offensive juggernaut is why the NCAA changed the rules. I first remember them starting to send it before the rules committee in 2016-2017 and then it finally changed after 2018 as there were quite a few players in the NCAA tournament using it and coaches were up in arms. There was one kid, at either Kansas/K-State that had it nailed and was getting massive separation from people.

Thanks for the video --- I don't believe i saw one legal move in the entire clip
 

sycamorebacker

The Menser Level
Supporter
No, this is off the dribble where they gather/zero step and then step back like Cooper did in the video. This video is the NBA where there is a little more liberty but Harden starting this back in like 2015-2016 when he became an offensive juggernaut is why the NCAA changed the rules. I first remember them starting to send it before the rules committee in 2016-2017 and then it finally changed after 2018 as there were quite a few players in the NCAA tournament using it and coaches were up in arms. There was one kid, at either Kansas/K-State that had it nailed and was getting massive separation from people.

It's confusing when you talk about steps. Players have always taken 1.5 steps on layups after gathering the ball. You do agree with that, right? Well, 2 steps is travel. I know it when I see it. I don't need a rule book.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
It's confusing when you talk about steps. Players have always taken 1.5 steps on layups after gathering the ball. You do agree with that, right? Well, 2 steps is travel. I know it when I see it. I don't need a rule book.

Honestly - it might be easier for you to go back and explain to us specifically what you think was a travel?? Because we've had multiple different people see the video and they didn't see a travel. So you explain to us why you think something was a travel and we can try and discuss it. I went back and watched Cooper's move and it's not even close to a travel - it's just a step-back jump shot basically.
 

sycamore tuff

The All-MVC Level
I'm with Backer on this. Anything over 1 1/2 steps is travelling. I don't care what the NBA allows. If their game was that great they wouldn't have to allow such crap. The NCAA needs to follow the 1 1/2 step rule before the whole product is crap like the NBA.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
No one here has argued that the NBA is a good product - or atleast I am not arguing that… I talked about the athletic ability and the college game evolving independent on what is happening at the pro level.
 

sycamorebacker

The Menser Level
Supporter
Honestly - it might be easier for you to go back and explain to us specifically what you think was a travel??
I could take a stab at it, but we all know what it is. If you gather the ball while in the air, your pivot foot is allowed to hit the floor one time, right? If your pivot foot is on the floor when you gather the ball, it can leave the floor but not come back down. Did I say that right?
It's not too complicated. If there are 10,000 people in Hulman and a player on the opposing team travels, about 9,975 fans recognize it.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
I could take a stab at it, but we all know what it is. If you gather the ball while in the air, your pivot foot is allowed to hit the floor one time, right? If your pivot foot is on the floor when you gather the ball, it can leave the floor but not come back down. Did I say that right?
It's not too complicated. If there are 10,000 people in Hulman and a player on the opposing team travels, about 9,975 fans recognize it.

Ha. A great transition… The HC ain’t seen 10k and even if it did - the fan base is very very apathetic. Not to disagree with you again but less than half of those 10,000 would recognize it. They’re more aware of the only place you can buy a beer at halftime than they are a travel.

The highlight video is what brought this topic to light. I’ve watched it - no one traveled IMO. The game has changed - players are more athletic and they’ve transformed the game. The NBA sucks. We can all agree!!
 

4Q_iu

The Nicks Level
Supporter
Ha. A great transition… The HC ain’t seen 10k and even if it did - the fan base is very very apathetic. Not to disagree with you again but less than half of those 10,000 would recognize it. They’re more aware of the only place you can buy a beer at halftime than they are a travel.

The highlight video is what brought this topic to light. I’ve watched it - no one traveled IMO. The game has changed - players are more athletic and they’ve transformed the game. The NBA sucks. We can all agree!!

Leave the fans in HC or any other venue out of the equation.
The players aren't more athletic today, they may be more skilled because of better nutrition, training, single focus on one sport vice the 3-/4-season all-around athletes from the past.

The players haven't transformed the game; the officials refusal to call the game the same today as ~1950-(hell) 1990 is what's transformed the games.

Fans bitching that 'it's not right, Jordan, James, Durant, Harden, etc, etc, etc" should be able to do whatever they want.

The NBA sucks in general and that shitty style of play is filtering down to college, high school - hell, even middle school
 

sycamore tuff

The All-MVC Level
I watched the practice video again. The only one that I thought was a blatant travel was cooper's side step shot. I'll have to slow it down to be positive. With that being said, I would hate to rely on that move for a game winner. He may get called for it.
 

Sycamorefan96

The All-MVC Level
Nobody wants to play defense any more either. College basketball has turned into a run down the court and chuck it up game. Ever since the shot clock was shortened from 35 to 30 (and to 20 on offensive rebounds) the quality of the game has went down. I still like the game, but trying to turn it into a minor league NBA series is not a good model.

They could honestly just get rid of the shot clock. We don't have a shot clock in HS ball here in Indiana and I've never seen anyone actually run a 3 minute offense before. Usually teams just shoot it the first decent look they get.
 

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Leave the fans in HC or any other venue out of the equation.
The players aren't more athletic today, they may be more skilled because of better nutrition, training, single focus on one sport vice the 3-/4-season all-around athletes from the past.

The players haven't transformed the game; the officials refusal to call the game the same today as ~1950-(hell) 1990 is what's transformed the games.

Fans bitching that 'it's not right, Jordan, James, Durant, Harden, etc, etc, etc" should be able to do whatever they want.

The NBA sucks in general and that shitty style of play is filtering down to college, high school - hell, even middle school

The game is bigger. Faster and stronger. I know that isn’t popular and not what you want to hear - but it’s fact.
 

4Q_iu

The Nicks Level
Supporter
The game is bigger. Faster and stronger. I know that isn’t popular and not what you want to hear - but it’s fact.
meh -- we'll have to disagree.

the game is "bigger"... i'll believe that when the basket is moved to 11 or 12 feet!
the game is Faster... maybe but MAINLY because the players are now allowed to run ala Barry Sanders outta the backfield
the game is Stronger... maybe but MAINLY because when Shaq entered the NBA he was allowed to scatter players much in the same vein as Dick Weber and Earl Anthony scattered bowling pins

the other fundamental changes to the game was been the influence of Euro big men such as Sabonis - brief as his NBA career was; Vlade Divac; Detlef Schrempf; Dirk Nowitzki, even Christian Welp

I know there were some American bigs who faced the basketball but the influx of mobile Euro bigs on the wings was IMJ as fundamental as allowing the palming, travelling, carries that so many American PGs committed
 
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