Thoughts on Indiana State vs. IUPUI.

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SycamoreStateofMind

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
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For some reason this team has no idea how to get out of the blocks (for you track fans). 10-0 in the first 4 mins of the game and we still score 35 points in the first half. Lathan looked like he was lost (he is used to starting the games on the bench) in the first 5 mins. of the game and then he woke up in a HUGE way.

Lathan: Outside of some poor shooting from the foul line and a few awful turnovers early in the game he played very well once again. He went up for a big dunk at the end of half and the IUPUI defender made a heck of the play on the ball if you ask me (ask others and they might think he got fouled). Lathan's ability to hang in the air gives him such an advantage around the basket - he can make shots that most can't. Just a sophmore :eek7:

Harry: Really made some nice hustle plays for us today - he made a great defensive play at the end of the half with a great one on one stop. As we all know sometime he takes some ill advised shots, but you just have to live with that. Harry did not start the game or start the second half, wonder how that will sit with him? :meditate:

JP: Shot the ball very well today, does anyone else think he needs to shoot the rock a little more? Sometimes he does a terrible pump fake instead of being ready to shoot and getting off the shot. He is clearly are best shooter and needs to let it fly. He also made one very good pass inside in the 1st half.

Kelly: The good with the bad - he made some really good kick outs for open 3s, shot the ball well from the foul line and made a tough shot down the stretch. Other than he made a bad turnover and a poor decision on a fast break... I am so surprised to see him struggle on the offensive side of the ball like he has.

Martin: Didn't play much late as we went with a smaller line up, but he gave us some quality mins. Made a nice short jumper and shot decent from the foul line. He has a few nice blocked shots. I think he will start the rest of the season for the Sycamores. I think we all like his energy!

Koang: Shot the ball well today - he really has a nice quick shot! He kind of scares me when he handles the ball, other than that nice lift off the bench.

Reed: made some really nice passes today - he has not been the scorer this year that he was last year, with this team he doesn't need to be a big scorer. If he can get around 10 a game I am confident we will be in every game.

Carl: Played a good game today - didn't try to do to much and was strong with the ball. He made some good moves around the rim and continues to be a 3pt threat.

Crawford: Played well in limited mins. He made one awful pass for a turnover but I still think coach needs to work him into the game a little bit.
 

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Well yeah because Harry was suspended... I am just saying if you watched the first couple possessions of the game the entire team looked lost - but Lathan looked like a deer in the headlights. I was like what the freak is he doing? And then in true Lathan fashion he came on strong at the end!
 
Yeah I just wanted to clarify, I listened to the game starting at halftime, what do you think Of AC's performance? I heard his name a couple of times but, I just love his hustle, this guy really plays hard....If everybody on that team played as hard as he does all the time, we would have one of the best teams in the Valley!
 
Morgan said:
For some reason this team has no idea how to get out of the blocks (for you track fans). 10-0 in the first 4 mins of the game and we still score 35 points in the first half. Lathan looked like he was lost (he is used to starting the games on the bench) in the first 5 mins. of the game and then he woke up in a HUGE way.

Lathan: Outside of some poor shooting from the foul line and a few awful turnovers early in the game he played very well once again. He went up for a big dunk at the end of half and the IUPUI defender made a heck of the play on the ball if you ask me (ask others and they might think he got fouled). Lathan's ability to hang in the air gives him such an advantage around the basket - he can make shots that most can't. Just a sophmore :eek7:

Harry: Really made some nice hustle plays for us today - he made a great defensive play at the end of the half with a great one on one stop. As we all know sometime he takes some ill advised shots, but you just have to live with that. Harry did not start the game or start the second half, wonder how that will sit with him? :meditate:

JP: Shot the ball very well today, does anyone else think he needs to shoot the rock a little more? Sometimes he does a terrible pump fake instead of being ready to shoot and getting off the shot. He is clearly are best shooter and needs to let it fly. He also made one very good pass inside in the 1st half.

Kelly: The good with the bad - he made some really good kick outs for open 3s, shot the ball well from the foul line and made a tough shot down the stretch. Other than he made a bad turnover and a poor decision on a fast break... I am so surprised to see him struggle on the offensive side of the ball like he has.

Martin: Didn't play much late as we went with a smaller line up, but he gave us some quality mins. Made a nice short jumper and shot decent from the foul line. He has a few nice blocked shots. I think he will start the rest of the season for the Sycamores. I think we all like his energy!

Koang: Shot the ball well today - he really has a nice quick shot! He kind of scares me when he handles the ball, other than that nice lift off the bench.

Reed: made some really nice passes today - he has not been the scorer this year that he was last year, with this team he doesn't need to be a big scorer. If he can get around 10 a game I am confident we will be in every game.

Carl: Played a good game today - didn't try to do to much and was strong with the ball. He made some good moves around the rim and continues to be a 3pt threat.

Crawford: Played well in limited mins. He made one awful pass for a turnover but I still think coach needs to work him into the game a little bit.
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What about our "press?" Who's effective and who's not? We forced 10 to's midway in the 1st half, but I don't recall its effective use in the 2nd half, especially during the 40's when the Jags were closing the gap. I'm a real proponet of "defensive diversity ",,,keeping your opponet OFF BALANCE, rather than simply kicking back on your heels & allowing an easy half-court set to materialize. With our DEPTH in the backcourt, K-mac needs to be working on this.
 
Well a couple comments. To start things out, AC didn't play but maybe 2 or 3 mins. that I could recall. He got a horrible call against him on what was clearly a block out and the guy went over his back. Do I love the way AC hustles? Yeah, who wouldn't like that about him. I told sycamorebacker (big fan of AC's) that with this depth AC is going to struggle to find PT and I am none to surprised at what has taken place so far this season. Honestly I think the guys playing ahead of him are more talented than he is, but that's not to take anything away from him because his hustle makes up for that. I just don't see him as an athletic slasher or anything like that - he has shot the ball fairly well for us this season when he has got the chance.

The press - I don't think we forced to many TO's off the press, but I think they had trouble getting into their offensive sets because of the press. I don't think they made a brief little run at us in the second half because we were not pressing - it was more a result of a couple forced shots by Jake Kelly and a bad air ball on a 3 by Harry. This team is best when it is going to the basket, whether that be on a fast break or in a half court set - even today against the zone they did a nice job finding holes in the zone and looking down low or passing out the the open shooter. Are passing has gotten so much better than it had the first 5 games of the season. But I agree with our depth (AC needs to get some more mins.) we should be pressing off every made basket if you ask me... It's not like are press is that intense that we can't do it after a made hoop...

Once again you saw a set play for Harry out of the TO at the end of the half. Jake Kelly made a pass to harry whom inbounded the ball - Harry almost made a tough shot.
 

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My overall comments on this game is this .I think we played as a team better inthis game than we have all year . We did havea couple lapses at the start of the game and in the middle of the second half but the team fought back really nice, Biggest suprise for me of the day was the crowd was about 10 times bigger than i truely expected. Overall really a nice win cant complain at all.
 
Morgan said:
Well a couple comments. To start things out, AC didn't play but maybe 2 or 3 mins. that I could recall. He got a horrible call against him on what was clearly a block out and the guy went over his back. Do I love the way AC hustles? Yeah, who wouldn't like that about him. I told sycamorebacker (big fan of AC's) that with this depth AC is going to struggle to find PT and I am none to surprised at what has taken place so far this season. Honestly I think the guys playing ahead of him are more talented than he is, but that's not to take anything away from him because his hustle makes up for that. I just don't see him as an athletic slasher or anything like that - he has shot the ball fairly well for us this season when he has got the chance...
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Morgan,

I think everyone (incl. AC) knew this was the scenario when Kelly's eligibility was decided as well as the new FROSH and the RS/Transfers.

Glad to see he's accepted his role and contributes when and where he can as he's given the opportunity.
 
Umm I disagree with that 4Q, their was still a camp of folks on here the thought AC was going to get 15 to 25 mins. a game, stats were thrown at me about how many games he started last year and so on and so forth - I think some folks didn't realize what Jake Kelly and Lathan were going to bring to the table, this was even before they decided to red shirt Jake Odum. So I don't really think I was pointing out the obvious, I am glad that he plays hard when he get's in the game - I get the sense that he is not the type of kid that is going let his lack of playing time effect the way he plays when he get's on the court and you really like to see that in a kid. I don't know that you could say the same thing from Martin, I mean he was visibly pissed off that he was in the game....
 
AC with 25 min a game? Keep in mind there are 200 TOTAL minutes...
I read everyone ask for more playing time for half the team, (AC/JP/Martin/Crawford/etc)...
so, the question is... how would YOU divide up the 200?
 
Agree with Daveinth...aside from the 0-10 start, we played very well. IUPUI was talented and athletic. I thought we battled on the boards, and our defense was pretty solid. It was another step in the right direction.

I attended the fiasco last year at Conseco...The beating they put on us was hard to swallow. It was followed by one of the worst ice storms I have ever been caught in...perfect ending for that day!
 

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You are asking the wrong dude, I said before the season that AC wouldn't play more than 10mins. a game I think, something like that (I made a bet with sycamorebacker). I have said that between Martin and Crawford you should try and get 25 to 30 minutes out of these guys combined. That means every game for at least 10 to 15 mins. Koang, Carter, Brant should get some time in the game.

You have also seen us go with a lineup that looks something like this: Kelly, Reed, Harry, Lathan, and Carl or Kelly, JP, Harry, Lathan and Carl so you could also see a lineup like this up to 10mins a game.

I mean Harry, Reed, Kelly and Lathan are going to play 25 to 35 min. each game.
 
Most of us felt that we were going to be deep, but I kind of expected that some of the players would not contribute as expected and that part of our depth would end up being as "hoped" or imagined by optimistic fans. But, I think JP is gradually improving, Lathan is as good as hoped, and KD is showing some unexpected abilities. Overall, I think this team IS deep and AC doesn't have the role of many minutes. He is shooting .500 and I still think he could play more, but I don't question the PT decisions of the coach, generally, and the players that are playing are doing ok. Sometimes I question Reed's minutes, but as a SR he probably is a steadying influence and has a decent all around game. AC's weaknesses may be defense and ball handling. He is competing directly with JP, and JP is a very good, complete ballhandler that can shoot.

And Morgan, I bow to you. You were right.

Since I now have to respect your opinion, LOL, what do you think Kitchell's role will be next year? In the years that I have followed ISU (many), I can't recall someone averaging 20 pts, 15 reb, and over 5 blocks and assists in HS that did NOT come in and have an impact. I know D would be a problem, but I can't imagine that any other big we have outplaying him. Next year should be real competitive at the 3-5 spots with the returnees, redshirts and incoming players. We will have a longer, taller roster and more 4-5's.
 
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sycamorebacker said:
And Morgan, I bow to you. You were right.

Since I now have to respect your opinion, LOL, what do you think Kitchell's role will be next year? In the years that I have followed ISU (many), I can't recall someone averaging 20 pts, 15 reb, and over 5 blocks and assists in HS that did NOT come in and have an impact. I know D would be a problem, but I can't imagine that any other big we have outplaying him. Next year should be real competitive at the 3-5 spots with the returnees, redshirts and incoming players. We will have a longer, taller roster and more 4-5's.
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Let me start by saying thank you! lol Also that I think AC has played at a high level this season when he has got the chance. Maybe it's the fact that I haven't had to watch him for big chunks of time like last year, but he has actually improved overall and seen less minutes. Him not playing is simply a product of what you said, JP is playing better than him and this team is just very deep... That doesn't mean that later on this season we won't get in foul trouble or have an injury, if that's the case I am confident that AC can fill in just fine...

As for Kitchell, I don't have the benefit of seeing him play in person or otherwise, all I have to look at are box scores. I think with high school athletes box scores only tell you so much. Just looking at pictures of him he looks like he could be awful green... But with those kind of numbers it's hard to imagine him not having an impact, you have to think that with Kitchell and our PG of the future Jake Odum that the future is bright for the Sycamores. I think you have to take one other thing into consideration, some of these kids (good numbers or not) don't adapt to the college game (in any sport) as well as you would like. At mid majors I think their is a bit of unpredictability... Sometimes you don't know exactly what you are getting until the kid arrives on campus. I am very hopeful that Kitchell will be a steal. I think the more pressing question is will they red shirt Kitchell? Here is why I say the answer is yes:

You loose 2 guards and a center this season, not forwards. You also add Walker the JC transfer who is going to step in and get PT no matter what. You don't bring in a JC forward/center and not play him. Also reguardless of everyones opinion of RJ Mahurin you have to think that Coach is going to give him a shot, I think Kitchell would compete for mins. with RJ, Koang, Carter, Richard. He is not going to take mins. away from Richard or Koang. So my guess is Kitchell will red shirt, they will give Carter a chance to play decent minutes as a SR. You will really need Kitchell to come off his red shirt strong following the departure of Carter and Kelly following the 2011 season. It only makes sense to red shirt Kitchell next season, what are you calling him a forward/center? If so what does your depth chart look like?

Lathan (He has shown he can play the 3 or the 4)
Richard
Walker
Martin
Koang (Only because of his length)
Carter
RJ
Brant

So you tell me, where does Kitchell fit in this picture? This is not a knock on him, numbers simply don't work in his favor. Then again I wouldn't have red shirted Jake Odum because I think he is a better play than Reed - I think he could run the PG for this team. Most would disagree with that - then again with the way we are playing right now you can't really question that decision.
 
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Morgan said:
Let me start by saying thank you! lol Also that I think AC has played at a high level this season when he has got the chance. Maybe it's the fact that I haven't had to watch him for big chunks of time like last year, but he has actually improved overall and seen less minutes. Him not playing is simply a product of what you said, JP is playing better than him and this team is just very deep... That doesn't mean that later on this season we won't get in foul trouble or have an injury, if that's the case I am confident that AC can fill in just fine...

As for Kitchell, I don't have the benefit of seeing him play in person or otherwise, all I have to look at are box scores. I think with high school athletes box scores only tell you so much. Just looking at pictures of him he looks like he could be awful green... But with those kind of numbers it's hard to imagine him not having an impact, you have to think that with Kitchell and our PG of the future Jake Odum that the future is bright for the Sycamores. I think you have to take one other thing into consideration, some of these kids (good numbers or not) don't adapt to the college game (in any sport) as well as you would like. At mid majors I think their is a bit of unpredictability... Sometimes you don't know exactly what you are getting until the kid arrives on campus. I am very hopeful that Kitchell will be a steal. I think the more pressing question is will they red shirt Kitchell? Here is why I say the answer is yes:

You loose 2 guards and a center this season, not forwards. You also add Walker the JC transfer who is going to step in and get PT no matter what. You don't bring in a JC forward/center and not play him. Also reguardless of everyones opinion of RJ Mahurin you have to think that Coach is going to give him a shot, I think Kitchell would compete for mins. with RJ, Koang, Carter, Richard. He is not going to take mins. away from Richard or Koang. So my guess is Kitchell will red shirt, they will give Carter a chance to play decent minutes as a SR. You will really need Kitchell to come off his red shirt strong following the departure of Carter and Kelly following the 2011 season. It only makes sense to red shirt Kitchell next season, what are you calling him a forward/center? If so what does your depth chart look like?

Lathan (He has shown he can play the 3 or the 4)
Richard
Walker
Martin
Koang (Only because of his length)
Carter
RJ
Brant

So you tell me, where does Kitchell fit in this picture? This is not a knock on him, numbers simply don't work in his favor. Then again I wouldn't have red shirted Jake Odum because I think he is a better play than Reed - I think he could run the PG for this team. Most would disagree with that - then again with the way we are playing right now you can't really question that decision.
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I know some think it's silly to talk about next year, but I enjoy it!

I'm sure we both agree that Jake, Jake and DL will be on the floor a lot at the 3 perimeter spots. Based on experience and improving talent, CR has to be the 4. But, what happens if 2 of the remaining players on the list are playing their socks off? That means we can finally put a traditional PF on the floor, at least some.
What I was saying about Kitchell, though, is this -- look at the list -- some of them haven't shown that they can score or rebound 5+. What if Kitchell goes out and gets a double-double in an exhibition game, passes the ball effectively (which we really need), and blocks a few shots. Then what do you do if you're Coach?
I've seen a lot of freshmen playing on TV this year. It's not unreasonable to expect Kitchell to come in and help our team with our inside game.
 

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sycamorebacker said:
Most of us felt that we were going to be deep, but I kind of expected that some of the players would not contribute as expected and that part of our depth would end up being as "hoped" or imagined by optimistic fans. But, I think JP is gradually improving, Lathan is as good as hoped, and KD is showing some unexpected abilities. Overall, I think this team IS deep and AC doesn't have the role of many minutes. He is shooting .500 and I still think he could play more, but I don't question the PT decisions of the coach, generally, and the players that are playing are doing ok. Sometimes I question Reed's minutes, but as a SR he probably is a steadying influence and has a decent all around game. AC's weaknesses may be defense and ball handling. He is competing directly with JP, and JP is a very good, complete ballhandler that can shoot.

And Morgan, I bow to you. You were right.

Since I now have to respect your opinion, LOL, what do you think Kitchell's role will be next year? In the years that I have followed ISU (many), I can't recall someone averaging 20 pts, 15 reb, and over 5 blocks and assists in HS that did NOT come in and have an impact. I know D would be a problem, but I can't imagine that any other big we have outplaying him. Next year should be real competitive at the 3-5 spots with the returnees, redshirts and incoming players. We will have a longer, taller roster and more 4-5's.
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I'm going to watch Kitchell play on January 29th in Lacrosse, IN. South Central plays there then.

Lacrosse High School is located in the heart of Lacrosse, IN. I probably don't need to explain Lacrosse's location to all of you single Indiana HS class fans. You already know where Lacrosse is....especially Lacrosse's domination of the Michigan City High Schools at the Michigan City Sectionals all of those years. I mean if Lacrosse High School is not seared in your memory as one of the single class legacy schools, no school is.

Lacrosse is at the intersections of US Highway 421 and Indiana 8, or just a few miles North of San Pierre and Radioville, Indiana.....also on US HIghway 421. Yes, Radioville and San Pierre.....don't believe me, look it up.

Okay...I know some folks from Lacrosse, and it was a joke in Lacrosse for decades that they might not have enough boys to field a team. Many a year when LHS only had 5, 6, or 7 kids on the team, if one or two fouled out, they may only haved five to play, or worse...only four. As stories of old are told, this happened against MC Rodgers in a 1965 Sectional game.

And hell no, LHS never competed against MC Rodgers or MC Elston in any decade or in any century. Are you kidding?

Anyway, this won't be Kitchell's first rodeo in Lacrosse's 500 seat gym(and I don't know if it holds that many). It will be interesting to see if he can dominate the paint and the game....I'm expecting 30 pts, 25 rebounds, several blocks and steals, and some assists.....especially if LHS boys end up with just 4 or 5 boys playing at the end of the game.
 
Gotta Hav said:
I'm going to watch Kitchell play on January 29th in Lacrosse, IN. South Central plays there then.

Lacrosse High School is located in the heart of Lacrosse, IN. I probably don't need to explain Lacrosse's location to all of you single Indiana HS class fans. You already know where Lacrosse is....especially Lacrosse's domination of the Michigan City High Schools at the Michigan City Sectionals all of those years. I mean if Lacrosse High School is not seared in your memory as one of the single class legacy schools, no school is.

Lacrosse is at the intersections of US Highway 421 and Indiana 8, or just a few miles North of San Pierre and Radioville, Indiana.....also on US HIghway 421. Yes, Radioville and San Pierre.....don't believe me, look it up.

Okay...I know some folks from Lacrosse, and it was a joke in Lacrosse for decades that they might not have enough boys to field a team. Many a year when LHS only had 5, 6, or 7 kids on the team, if one or two fouled out, they may only haved five to play, or worse...only four. As stories of old are told, this happened against MC Rodgers in a 1965 Sectional game.

And hell no, LHS never competed against MC Rodgers or MC Elston in any decade or in any century. Are you kidding?

Anyway, this won't be Kitchell's first rodeo in Lacrosse's 500 seat gym(and I don't know if it holds that many). It will be interesting to see if he can dominate the paint and the game....I'm expecting 30 pts, 25 rebounds, several blocks and steals, and some assists.....especially if LHS boys end up with just 4 or 5 boys playing at the end of the game.
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Nothing like a Christmas day Geography/History lesson...
 
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