Thoughts on Sycamores vs. Aces

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If you could blame losing a 17 point lead (vs. Aces) on anything what would it be?

  • 22 Turnovers, 17 by the starting 5

    Votes: 28 51.9%
  • Shooting 58% from the FT Line

    Votes: 10 18.5%
  • Injury to Jake Kelly

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Poor Coaching

    Votes: 8 14.8%
  • Poor Officiating

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't blame it one any 1 thing, we just aint that good

    Votes: 8 14.8%

  • Total voters
    54

SycamoreStateofMind

The Odum Level
Supporter
Well just got back to the Haute from Evansville, probably a good thing because it allowed me to collect myself. LOL! Not sure where to start, the Sycamores came out of the gates playing very well on both ends of the floor. The last 5 minutes of the first half might have lost us that game tonight. Well that and several other things that I am going to get to in a minute. I have not been very critical of the Sycamores this season, have tried to take things in stride - that all is about to go out the window.

Kelly - Granted he didn't play but I have some comments I'd like to make. We could have used him on the floor tonight, but his lack of enthusiasm on the bench and in timeouts drives me nuts. Hands are in his pocket and he's just kinda staring off into space. He being a SR. on this team needs to take on more of a leadership role and it hasn't happened.

Lathan - Have not seen the box score yet but dude that was brutal. Saw him and Lansing get into a time or two during the game, he is starting to hurt this team more than he is helping us. He couldn't hit shit at the freethrow line and he continues to be amazingly careless with the basketball. I don't know how you can play D1 ball and be that horrible of a ball handler? Amazed by that.

Carl - I like him and he rebounds the ball well most of the time, but the guy is soft. It's just the way it is, he needs to get more physical inside, that is something that just has to happen with him. They needed him to come up big in the second half and he never really got off the bus.

Odum - My man crush on him (as ISUCC pointed out to me today via text message) has been well documented at this point. I know Jake personally and I've watched him play for several years now. It's a damn shame when your freshman plays harder on both ends of the floor than anyone on the entire team. People can say what they want about Carters effort (he gives it all) but Jake Odum wants to win and he plays his ass off. Throw all the other things he does out the window, the kid just flat out comes to play each and every night. He doesn't hang his head when things go wrong, sure he maybe shakes his head at a bad call and he's a little cocky at times. But in my mind he's got every right to be. Outside of Colt Ryan - Jake Odum was yet again the best player on the floor tonight. He has tried to lead this team the best he can, but a freshman can not be your leader in any division 1 sport - it just can't happen. You can try and he does, but if your freshman is your leader you are going to have things happen like they did tonight.

JP - Glad to see him back shooting the ball. Not sure what else to say about JP. If he shoots the 3 well then you know he was in the game, other than that he's just a quiet player. Not quiet bad, not quiet good... Just quiet.

Carter - He played great D on Ryan (was in early foul trouble) in the first half. He continues to struggle to shoot the ball, has to be shooting around 22% from long range and that just wont cut it. But when you work your rear off on D you are going to give something up on the other end of the floor. Tonight was probably more of a product of that than anything else, he just seemed to be pressing on the offensive side of the ball - him and the rest of the Sycamores not named Odum.

Martin - Not at all sure why he didn't get in the game? I'd have played him 15 minutes tonight. Could have used his length inside, EU does not shoot the ball well enough (again other than Ryan) to not go big inside.

Walker - Dude struggles on the offensive side of the ball and his free throw shooting is horrible. He plays hard and he gets beat to hell inside and rarely get's calls. Didn't do much tonight though.

McWorther - He plays hard also, he really works his butt off when he is in the game. I will give him that, still very raw and has a lot to learn. Not ready to make a prediction on how he will develop, just haven't seen enough about him. And it will be more of a guess than a predication...

Kong - Between him and Lathan tonight, wow! Turned the ball over a few times, got away with a travel or 2 or 3. Did have some big rebounds inside, but that's about all I can say.

RJ - Thought he played much better tonight. Hit a few big 3s inside and heck he was in the paint fighting for rebounds and fighting for position. He couldn't get ANY calls which was BS. He got called for a charge in the 2nd half which was just HORRIBLE. He showed some emotion after a big 3 in the 2nd half and I was really happy for him to finally get a few to go down for him.

Lansing - Thought he lost the team in the second half of this ball game. Not sure why he didn't call a TO at some point in the last 5 minutes of the first half. The momentum changed and you could feel it. I told my buddies with 18 minutes to go in the 2nd half that we were NOT going to win this game and I meant it. I knew we were not going to win that game. He has got to get these kids focused on shooting free throws, in my mind them missing free throws shows a lack of concentration and a lack of discipline and I put a little of that on his back.

Well that's all I got - sorry if I was a little harsh on the some guys. I give the good when it's good and I guess if I am going to continue to breakdown the game (as I see it) then it's gotta go both ways in what was a horrible loss to a bad team. You see when you hold a team to 8 points with 8 minutes to go in the first half and are just putting it to them and you fall apart like that, something went VERY wrong. Heck Odum was outscoring the Aces for the better part of 15 minutes in the first half, then it changed.

The officiating was typical Valley officiating, not very good both ways. Wouldn't say that they cost us the game. On a side note that Odum 3 at the end almost went down, I thought it was good. Some might think he should have dished off to JP on that play, but the D sucked toward JP and left Odum wide open. Thought he made the smart play, had a great look at it FTT (for the tie). Not the way I wanted to start 2011. Take it easy on me fellas, still love my Sycamores - just telling it the way I think it needed to be told.
 
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Pretty well said. A disappointing effort tonight. We'll bounce back on Tuesday. This team, it seems to me, is still trying to find itself. Hope they find themselves soon...:pray:
 
Lathan almost single handly cost us the game. He is such a momentum killer with his turnovers and selfish play. If im Lansing and I see Lathan is having one of these all about me 7 turnover performances I yank his a** out and dont put him back in until the next game.

At this point you need to do something to wake him up and make him realize he is doing way more bad than good when he plays like he did tonight. He has such a nice skill set when used properly but when it only gets used in 40 percent of the games its hard to win with him being our "go to guy". This team can still get it together but fellas I said this after the big loss to Wyoming that this team does not look like it has "it" and is really underachieving. A good team does not lose by 30 to Wyoming and 20 to Ball St. A good team does not blow a 15 point lead to Evansville and most of all a good team does not rely on a FR to be their only leader out on the floor. Can this team pull it together? Sure, but I wouldnt bet on it.
 
Lathan almost single handly cost us the game. He is such a momentum killer with his turnovers and selfish play. If im Lansing and I see Lathan is having one of these all about me 7 turnover performances I yank his a** out and dont put him back in until the next game.

Not a big fan of Bobby Knight or anything IU for that matter - but sitting here thinking it just kind of occurred to me can you imagine how he would have reacted at Lathan's performance last night? I am not so much talking about the turnovers as I am him hanging his head and his mannerisms on the court. Plus seeing him and Lansing jawing back and forth wasn't to pretty either. Knight woulda ripped his freaking head off I think... lol It woulda been so ugly, but Lansing is his own dude and I like Coach Lansing. Not trying to knock him, just an observation.
 
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Curious..why didn't Lathan show these mannerism's the past season? Is he bipolar, or is there simply a logistics conflict with Lansing's "style" this season that's frustrating him?

Also, what happened to Duloany and Martin? Both these guys were getting solid role minutes last season and contributed during our injury-plagued late-season spurt. Now they're both TRASHED at the end of the bench? Damn sad...especially when our INSIDE game this season is the WEAKEST in memory!
 
SycamoreStateOfMind,

I thought your synopsis of the game was right on.....very accurate.

What really disturbs me that wasn't shown on TV was Coach and Lathan jawing at each other. That insolence from Lathan should not be tolerated. As stated by some others, Lathan seems to more of a liability than an asset to the team thus far this season. If that continues it must be addressed before this season is lost.

I've suggested previously that Lathan is a "hotdog" and I've slapped some mustard on him from a couple of past performances. After last nights I'm putting some relish and Louisiana "un-yon" on him.
 

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If the Sycamores are going to play "up one game & down the next" all season, I would like to see a line-up of Odum, Mahurin, McWhorter, Carter & one of the Eitel's getting the start and most of the minutes. Why not build for the future again; just like Cub fans do year after year? Let the "Hotdogs" and mistake prone ride the bench and sub in the game once in awhile to give them a breather. Bet you would never see a lack of effort from that group.
 
After another round of turnovers by Lathan I really think he should come off the bench for a while.He has a lot of energy that might serve us well in short spurts .When he starts he thinks he has to carry the whole team which leads to all the one on one drives into 3 defenders with little hope for success.I think the word is out on him and the referees aren't going to bail him out all the time.Not starting might give him a little humility ,if he doesn't like it he can watch more from the bench.He's not a all-mvc player.

Down low we are going to have a problem all year.Walker got upset last night when the contact started and RJ isn't strong enough yet to not get pushed around.He did do as well as he could considering the weight difference he was facing.

I'm starting to think our team is what is known as frontrunners,as long as things are going well everything is ok,when the going gets tough we're not mentally ready to handle it.Just my opinion,could very well be wrong.
 
Not a big fan of Bobby Knight or anything IU for that matter - but sitting here thinking it just kind of occurred to me can you imagine how he would have reacted at Lathan's performance last night? I am not so much talking about the turnovers as I am him hanging his head and his mannerisms on the court. Plus seeing him and Lansing jawing back and forth wasn't to pretty either. Knight woulda ripped his freaking head off I think... lol It woulda been so ugly, but Lansing is his own dude and I like Coach Lansing. Not trying to knock him, just an observation.
I am a fan of Bobby Knight and I'll tell you how it would have gone -- he would have been benched and probably sent to the lockerroom. Knight would have rather lost playing "Indiana basketball" then pulling out a sloppy win with all of those turnovers, forced shots, etc.

I've read probably 4-5 books on Knight and while you may not have liked him as a man, his coaching and way he ran the program was spot on. I actually just finished one of my Half Price Books $1 clearance finds -- Steve Alford's book on his 6 years with Knight. Was a very interesting book to recall it through Alford's point of view.
 
After another round of turnovers by Lathan I really think he should come off the bench for a while.He has a lot of energy that might serve us well in short spurts .When he starts he thinks he has to carry the whole team which leads to all the one on one drives into 3 defenders with little hope for success.I think the word is out on him and the referees aren't going to bail him out all the time.Not starting might give him a little humility ,if he doesn't like it he can watch more from the bench.He's not a all-mvc player.

Down low we are going to have a problem all year.Walker got upset last night when the contact started and RJ isn't strong enough yet to not get pushed around.He did do as well as he could considering the weight difference he was facing.

I'm starting to think our team is what is known as frontrunners,as long as things are going well everything is ok,when the going gets tough we're not mentally ready to handle it.Just my opinion,could very well be wrong.

I'd say all of this is pretty fair and accurate, especially agree with the part in bold. He's not going to get calls that he was getting early in the year and last year, especially when officials see that he leads the nation in turnovers (not sure the accuracy of that statement but he has to be close). Chew on this, in 20 games last year Lathan had 52 turnovers (a big number) in just 12 games this year he has 50 turnovers at a clip of nearly 4 a game.
 
I've read probably 4-5 books on Knight and while you may not have liked him as a man, his coaching and way he ran the program was spot on. I actually just finished one of my Half Price Books $1 clearance finds -- Steve Alford's book on his 6 years with Knight. Was a very interesting book to recall it through Alford's point of view.

Oh and I totally agree with you, that's why I posted it. I wasn't knocking Knight at all. He ran a program the way it should be ran, I was just saying that I wasn't a big fan of his - more so because he coached at IU than anything else. But yeah he wouldn't have let that happen last night and that was indeed the point I was trying to make.
 

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First two would have been my top two choices, and then I guess poor coaching...though I think it's more inexperience than him being poor. Bad usage of timeouts, needing to see that a player needs to be yanked because he's forcing. That kind of stuff is really easy to see from the couch or some nosebleed seat, but it's a different story when you're on the sideline. Yes, that's what he gets paid to see, but there is definitely a learning curve involved.

FWIW, I chose Turnovers on the poll.
 
Lathan needs to sit and watch for a while. Watching him brings the old cliche' "there is no I in team" to mind. Arguing with the coach--totally unacceptable. If Lansing doesn't get Lathan's attention and respect, the coach may lose the team as a result. It would be a shame to see that happen. A coach can be too nice.

Our free throw shooting reminds me of something I saw as a young kid at a county fair. There was a ft side show--hit so many and win a prize. An old guy stepped up, paid his money and picked up a ball. He didn't come close. Paid again and zeroed in and hit a couple. Paid again and didn't miss a one. He kept paying and kept hitting and got some really nice prizes. Someone asked how he did so well; his answer was simple. He said shooting ft's is just like pitching horseshoes--it takes concentration and rhythm. Turns out he was a championship caliber horseshoe pitcher that hadn't shot a basketball in years, or so he said. Concentration and rhythm--seems like it might help the Trees.
 
Curious..why didn't Lathan show these mannerism's the past season? Is he bipolar, or is there simply a logistics conflict with Lansing's "style" this season that's frustrating him?

Also, what happened to Duloany and Martin? Both these guys were getting solid role minutes last season and contributed during our injury-plagued late-season spurt. Now they're both TRASHED at the end of the bench? Damn sad...especially when our INSIDE game this season is the WEAKEST in memory!

I definitely don't know anything for certain, Bank, but I'd think the style is frustrating to Lathan. He's being asked to play within a system and be patient...utilizing passing more than dribbling to get ball movement. That's very different from McKenna's spread offense which really centered on the dribble drive and dish. I saw Odum get frustrated with him a time or two last night, and I think there may be a little bit of a pride issue there as well for Lathan, which is dangerous...who will the team follow? Lansing needs to put this down immediately.

As far as Martin, he's a complete enigma to me. I'm wondering if there is something that none of us know about that happened...illness, tweaked something before the game, etc. The guy played 10 minutes against Bradley and had 4 boards, an assist, a steal, and 2 points...that's not bad at all. He'd actually played more than 10 minutes in the last three games and is providing okay production off the bench.

Doluony played 12 minutes last night and had 6 boards...but he's kind of like Martin in that he doesn't score a lot, but picks up boards and is long and lean inside. He's also wearing some kind of shoulder brace, so something has happened to him there.
 
Maybe a coach should sit with Dwayne and make him watch all his plays from the Bradley game and then all his plays from the Evansville game. Good Dwayne = 18 pts/5 reb/5 blk/3 ast/2 TO...and most importantly...no jawing with other players or coaches.

Then there was last night. Dwayne is a very valuable weapon when he's got his head on straight, and I hope they try SOMETHING before making the decision to sit him...I'm just afraid that will put him on the road to Eric Gray'sville
 

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Maybe a coach should sit with Dwayne and make him watch all his plays from the Bradley game and then all his plays from the Evansville game. Good Dwayne = 18 pts/5 reb/5 blk/3 ast/2 TO...and most importantly...no jawing with other players or coaches.

Then there was last night. Dwayne is a very valuable weapon when he's got his head on straight, and I hope they try SOMETHING before making the decision to sit him...I'm just afraid that will put him on the road to Eric Gray'sville

I would hope that he and a coach have done the video watching before now. Maybe not these 2 games specifically, but others have shown the same tendencies. Sitting can be a great motivation to a competitor like Dwayne.
 
The biggest concern for me is Lathan's jawing with the coach. This is venom in a team setting and especially when it comes from a "leader". This must be nipped in the bud right away and I am sure it will be. Everything else is correctable with the proper attitude.
 
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The biggest concern for me is Lathan's jawing with the coach. This is venom in a team setting and especially when it comes from a "leader". This must be nipped in the bud away and I am sure it will be. Everything else is correctable with the proper attitude.
317, something tells me that coach isn't likely to ignore that. I sure hope he doesn't. I did not see that moment on the TV coverage but I admit when it was slipping away, I tended to watch the football games. Frankly, I would sit him for the early portion of the next game.
 
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