Time to Think About an Indoor Track...

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Many facility's on Indiana State's campus have received updates in the last several months (without naming any names) however one program always seems to get left out, it leaves me wondering why that is? Could it be because we are too successful? Maybe...

If you consider the re-surfacing of the track last spring an update you are sadly mistaken... That was simply a patch job, or putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. You know the sad thing is, the track program not only needs an outdoor track facility, they need an indoor facility even worse.

The Plan

Indiana State University has architectural drawings in their hand to build a new indoor track complex. It would cost the university an estimated $10 to $20 million to build the facility depending on how big of a splash we can afford to make. The facility will expand to the north and ultimately demolish the current tennis courts. Seeing as how we don't have a tennis program now, this shouldn't be to big of an issue. This 300 meter indoor track will have the ability to bring (football, baseball and womens soccer) to the infield of the track to conduct practices. The facility would have the ability to install a turf like surface in the infield. This would be of great benefit to many programs. I urge the university as a whole give this project serious consideration.

Why it Makes Sense

Indiana State University has played host to the Cross Country Nationals a total of 9 times. When Indiana State places a bid to the NCAA to host nationals the NCAA rarely even has another bid submitted, why? Because the folks at ISU put on the event better than any other program in the country, we have the best facility and we have the best people! The sky is the limit for the people involved with the Track and XC programs, they don't see barriers like other programs at Indiana State. They think they can accomplish anything and everything! Their record on the track and the course speaks for its self. They complete winning season after winning season and compete for conference championships year in and year out!

1. Recruiting - Why even show recruits the indoor track we have now? You constantly have to defend your situation to the athlete by saying, "it's not much but we make do". That is anything but, "more from day 1". A new facility would help with recruiting of athletes.

2. Training - A new facility will decrease the number of injuries and allow are athletes to train at a higher level than they already do. Trust me the current facility has a negative impact on training, again we make do with what we have. This facility will also help football, soccer and baseball programs train in the winter. Can you think of a better situation? I sure can't.

3. Hosting Events - This facility would give Indiana State coaches and volunteers alike the opportunity to host a world class college invitational every year. If you build it they will come, teams all across the country pay a great deal of money to compete on over sized tracks like those at Iowa State and Notre Dame just to name a few. You say that the Track team can't generate revenues, build this facility and tell me that they don't generate revenue. The only reason they currently have a hard time doing this is because they have been put in such a bind.

Indiana State University Administration I urge you to take this project into serious consideration. It's simply the right thing to do and the right time to do it! Please stop pouring money into unsuccessful programs that are barley above water...

 

[4Q_iu]

Now that the Student Rec Center is built...

and the students no longer use the HPER spaces on the northside;
how will this new facility help the FBall, BBall and Soccer train in the winter?

They have the HPER?! That was the one of the main reasons behind the new Student Rec Center, no?

Can you break down the number of Track (In/Out) Championships; team, relays and individuals vs. Tennis?

Neither are revenue sports; tennis has to be cheaper, just based on the number of scholies - no?!

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Ha... Look now, don't go this route with me today... I will respond to you when I feel that I can respond without making an idiot out of myself. After last nights game I don't think I have the ability to do that today. Because if we realllllllyyyyyy wanna start talking about "cutting" the right programs then I can come up with a pretty darn good opinion about that right now. Because something tells me that's what you were getting at?

You can't compare the two, Indiana State Cross Country and Track teams have brought home more titles "for all intents and purposes" than any program in the history of Indiana State. Granted with 3 seasons we have more opportunies. However are winning % as far as championships is far greater than any other program. I don't really have the time to look up the numbers right now, maybe later this weekend. I am sure it's something profound.

 

[4Q_iu]

Apples, Oranges and Fruit

Agree that it's hard to compare them but at the end of the day, where in the world is State going to come up w/ the $$ for the facility? And where is the true need?
Sure it sux not hosting home indoor track meets; but how many kids take scholies elsewhere? Where does the team train now?

If we build this facility; are we going to blossom into a Tenn or Ark; LSU in track?
Just curious.

if there's a big donor out there willing to drop the $10-12M on this fac, great, take the money and build it.

However, I'd prefer an alumnus drop that kind of $$ on more academic scholies, help offset the cost of the CoB rehab.

What are the plans for the 'footprint' under the Statesman Towers, once they're razed?

 

[Jason Svoboda]

I'm all for it! I definitely think the track and field program deserves much better facilities and it can only help lure even better athletes into the program making it even more successful. That said, who is going ot pay for it?

Considering the rumor (if you want to call it that) is that the baseball project is completely getting redesigned to cut costs on that, you've got to think there wouldn't be any funding available for a new indoor track facility, no? I'd imagine for something to get done, there would need to be major fundraising done to secure a large chunk of the project costs. Does State have the track and athletics alumni base to raise 25-50% of the total bill?

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Let me say this much - I think John Gartland and John McNichols have the connections to raise 25% of the bill, I think 50% is a lot steep. To expect them to raise 5 to 10 million on their own is a huge number. I honestly can't speak about how the funding of this facility will work or if it ever would work?

You have to understand that this program is already an "elite" program in the MVC, without question. We are looked at nationally as an "elite" program because of our Cross Country facility and are outstanding coaching staff . I mean these guys are some of the best coaches in the nation and they have accolades to prove it... They don't need me to get on sycamorerunner.com and make a case for them.

The team currently trains in the hyper building... That track is for recreation use only, it was not built to hold Division 1 track practice... I bet 50% of injuries occur indoors because of how difficult of surface that is to practice on.

1. It's not an actual track and field surface.

2. The throwers have know room to throw, people have been hit by implements

3. The corners are way to tight

4. The building is way to small to conduct a full division 1 practice

5. if you are springing 60 meters you have to put on the breaks hard to slow down before you get to the ball. To give you a clear understanding, Insane Bolt would not be able to slow down in time...

Shall I continue? The outdoor track is a similar situation...

 

[4Q_iu]

The Capitol Campaign...

Any rumor that this campaign will dedicate a portion of the donations to the Athletic side of State?

Hearing the 'public phase' begins in October, 2009.

They may be raising athletic moneys during the 'private' phase.

Will be interesting to see how the Foundaton does; crappy time to kick off a campaign -- should have started one during 1990s...

Think this will be the TRUE measure of Sycamore Loyalty.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Oh it can be done... Union Hospital raised some 7.5 million$ with it's capital campaign during this same rough period of time. No doubt in my mind it can be done. They seem to also have some pretty creative ways of going about it. However I am not sure how all of this effects my cause... Where does my piece of the puzzle fit in? Oh and for the record I have already started the process of giving to this university... I am on board !

 

[Jason Svoboda]

Oh it can be done... Union Hospital raised some 7.5 million$ with it's capital campaign during this same rough period of time. No doubt in my mind it can be done. They seem to also have some pretty creative ways of going about it. However I am not sure how all of this effects my cause... Where does my piece of the puzzle fit in? Oh and for the record I have already started the process of giving to this university... I am on board !

Did you ask your donations to be earmarked for the track program or more specifically, new track facilities? Can you even do that?

 

[4Q_iu]

You can designate...

to an academic program; I do it annually. Specific athletic program? Thinking not.
http://www.indstatefoundation.org/GivingChoosing.aspx
Though I'm sure, you could endow a Track or XCty schoie; the Morgan Family, etc

Can someone explain the difference between the Sycamore Varsity Club and the Sycamores Athletics Scholarship Fund? Two groups w/ two goals? Same group w/ different names/'doors?'


As to 'naming rights' to one of the Colleges (Arts/Science, Ed., Bus.,, etc) I was told
~10 yrs ago that is would basically be $12M but that was then...
I believe that a cool $15M would get your name on a college; definitely a department.

Not seeing anything on the Foundation website for a 'ISU Building Fund...'
Bottom line; the more money -- the more specific you can be!

It's the Golden Rule -- If I HAVE the GOLD, I get to MAKE the rules!

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Did you ask your donations to be earmarked for the track program or more specifically, new track facilities? Can you even do that?

I accidently edited your post the first time instead of quoting it... lol I am a new at this!

Well you can actually direct them to a certain program so yes and no. Let me qualify that by saying, I don't think the administration has any serious considerations of building said facility at this point. I don't really have the option to tell them to put this toward building a new facility... I mean the gift was so substantial they might want to re-name the school.

The Morgan School of Higher Education

Acronym: MSHE

 

[Sackalot]

Would renovating the HYPER and expanding the northern wall out, lets say 50 feet, meet the needs.? I would have to think that resurfacing the current arena would be pretty easy to do. I know they never did before because regular "students" used it, but with the Rec Center that shouldn't be a probelm anymore. And expanding the buidling would not be a huge structural issue (I wouldn't think). And though many faculty would have a problem with it, they could easily remove the racquet ball courts and expand to the South as well. Just my thoughts...not saying we don't need a new facility but, I would think there are most cost effective ways to renovate what is currently in place.

Regardless, this all boils down to $$. If an alumnus comes along and has a vision or idea of what he/she wants and has the money to do it, it will happen. Look at the Michael Simmons Recreation Center over on the Northeast side of Campus. Michael Simmons started the Trike race at ISU, he decided that the Trike race needed a track to race on and a building with stands, so he donated the $$ and now there is a track with stands, restrooms, etc and he also just bought 30 trike bikes for any team of riders that wanted to compete could use. Michael Simmons is a great alumnus who donated ALOT of money...IMO it is the same situation with an indoor track.

I do agree the surface (more like hard cardboard) is terrible and hard as a rock. And I agree ISU probably needs a new facility, but without the $$ it is unlikely. What is more likely, is to resurface the arena and possibly to expand it. For example, if you took out the racquet ball courts that would have to provide enough space for shot, not hammer but definatly shot...just my thoughts. Can't answer the corner issues, but if the side of the building was expanded...I would think the geometry of the track could change and make the corners less tight. You will never solve the problem of possibly running into the walls...that is the case all the time. Everytime I watch track and field on tv, like the national indoor track and field meets, the sprinters are running and then crash into a wall that is padded...

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Let me say this, the new design actually calls for an addition onto the wing of the hyper building that you are talking about... Essentially the building from the outside will look the same just "longer/extended" to the west, the red brick and everything would be the same... So what you are suggesting is partially what has been proposed...

When I say partially I mean that they intend to keep some of the current hyper building for baseball, football and womens soccer in the winter. They will also keep the basketball courts in place.

I totally understand that you all are saying financially. I am simply asking for 3 things, 1 for everyone to indeed recognize that their is a need. 2 that the track program is for all intensive purposes the best program at Indiana State past and present. Finally the University to commit some funding and some support of this project. Because here is the deal, these drawings have been in their hand for several months now and by several months I mean since May and nothing has been done yet. They know this project is out their, now it's time they make a commitment to it.

It's simply UNACCEPTABLE to have the best Cross Country course in the nation and have the worst tracks in the nation. It makes no sense, that's like Rose Hulman being named the top engineering school in the country but not offering a common program like civil engineering. Make a commitment to excellence, that is all I am asking. Then if you want the program to come up with 25% of the bill then they have something to shoot for. Trust me that kind of thing can be done. Their are people working up their at that school that have the knowledge to make something like this happen, trust me they exist!

 

[4Q_iu]

Does State own the Gibson XCty Course...

thinking State had 'squatter rights' to it but didn't know if they owned it outright.

As to RHIT -- why anyone would shell out those $$ for any Eng degree from rhit is beyond me but I aren't an engineer.

Now maybe if the kid couldn;t get into Purdue...

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

I aren't an engineer.

LOL! Obviously!

You are right that facility is not owned by Indiana State. I think it is owned by the Wabash Valley Sports Center.

However it nationally it is recognized as Indiana State's Cross Country course... But you are correct in the fact that ISU does not own the facility. Rose Hulman has access to the facility this year for the D3 National Championships. The course will also play host to the Indiana State High School Championships, as well as the NCAA D1 Pre Nationals event and the Nike Cross Country Regional event!

Should be an historic season for high school and college cross country in Terre Haute!

 

[4Q_iu]

Have heard nothing but the finest...

things about the Gibson course and know the NCAA LOVES the job that State does
with the National Meet.

Love that the NCAA moved to Indy; what a coup! And the fact that Indy has/had some OUTSTANDING venues for a multitude of NCAA events was the icing.

Now, if we can only get the NCAA to stop acting to schizophrenic.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

Very true and it must irk the folks in Indy that no one in the country can do a better job of hosting the meet than little old Terre Haute, for gosh sakes we have "old stop lights" and the city "smells" oh and in the words of Bob Kraviz at the Indy Star you can't even "accrue Marriott points" in Terre Haute!

I mean can you imagine for a moment how the running capital of the world Eugne, Oregon must feel that little old Terre Haute has the ability to put on a Cross Country meet better than them and don't tell me that they can't host it because they are not centrally located. That perhaps is a reason but when you have Nike in your back pocket as Oregon does, I contest that they can do about whatever they want.

Read deeper into that statement and you will understand that maybe Oregon does not want to host Nationals, maybe they see it fit right here in little old Terre Haute, Indiana. Maybe Oregon and the folks at Nike like it here, their home away from home!

 

[Sycamores23]

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[Jason Svoboda]

In addition to the known money games, I've also heard it is a good possibility we will be picking up Purdue and IU in the near future. As long as the school can still bring in those big checks, you're correct that football will not be going anywhere.

 

[SycamoreStateofMind]

About the bids to host the NCAA Nationals - there are SEVERAL other bids competing against us and unfortunately we will probably get it taken away within the next 3-5 years. There was a meeting the other day and the coaches were not very optimistic about it being here constantly year after year despite the success it has received. Other schools are really pushing to host this event to bring money into their programs and a lot of schools are taking to it being hosted at another school because running at a new course is something everyone wants. I hope we get to host it every year for the rest of eternity lol but the time is coming when it won't be hosted by us any longer.

Also, although I would indeed build new facilities for the track teams if the money was there because they do deserve it, it's not feasible right now. I hate to say this but the school, community, and fans are more interested in sports like football (despite their record) and the basketball and baseball teams. The reason these sports are getting money put into them is because they are more likely to be able to put money back into the program. Baseball had people donate - because people would rather donate to that sport, that's a big part of why they get a new stadium. Football, despite their losing record, is in existence and will be for at least a few more years because of games like Louisville and Penn State that bring in thousands of dollars for not only the football team, but other teams as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love the track coaches and I think the teams are successful year after year - but college athletics is a business and track does not bring in anything (besides PreNats and Nats) financially. The level of interest in the track teams by the surrounding community is extremely low - there is not much support, not because they are not good but just because it's the nature of the sport. And until that changes, I'm afraid not much will change in terms of facilities.

Well for about 2 or 3 years schools were not even gathering the resources to put bids against us because they didn't stand a chance. I am well aware of the fact that we might loose it for a couple of years, I happen to pretty close to the situation myself. I guess I would consider myself pretty well educated and leave it at that. Just because another venue get's to host it one year does not mean much of anything... It's a good thing to have it move around from time to time!